There is never a dull moment as a parent, especially in a world dominated by screens and technology. In this episode, Dave Willis shares how he’s tackling tough conversations with his sons about sex, boundaries, and the dangers of pornography. Plus, he explains how the words you speak as a dad can become your child’s inner voice—for better or for worse.
Key Takeaways:
- The best moments come from undistracted one-on-one interactions where you connect with your kids in their world each day.
- A child’s mind and heart are like wet cement, and the words you say leave lasting impressions.
- It’s important to create a safe, shame-free space to talk about sex and God’s design for the body with your kids.
- Be prepared to guide your kids through a complex digital world filled with AI, robots, and other predatory technology.
- God designed your marriage to flourish.
GUEST:
Dave Willis and his wife, Ashley, are the authors of multiple books including the bestseller, The Naked Marriage. They’re also Christian speakers, marriage coaches, and the hosts of The Marriage on the Line Podcasts. They have four sons and live near Augusta, Georgia.
Key Quotes:
- "Being present in these moments in like every single day looking for the undistracted one-on-one conversation with each kid, trying to connect with them in their world each day. It doesn't have to be big or fancy or structured, but being intentional about that, those tend to be my best moments of the day." [00:05:41]
- "We cannot overestimate the power of our words. And God designed it that way. He created the whole universe using His words... the words we're speaking to our kids, they're gonna become the soundtrack, the inner voice in those kids' heads as they grow. I mean, they're gonna hear our voices for the rest of their lives." [00:01:12]
- "When our kids, what they see in us, they think is healthy and they think it's normal, even if it's totally broken." [00:05:59]
- "Your teaching authority, moral authority, doesn't come from a place of perfection... but they desperately needed to come from a placed of honesty and authenticity to say like, listen, this is where I blew it." [00:25:43]
- "Let's be dads who pass along generational blessing instead of baggage to our kids." (This is from his closing prayer) [00:39:05]
Links mentioned:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Being a great father takes a massive
amount of courage.
Instead of being an amazing leader
and a decent dad, I want to be an
amazing dad and a descent leader.
The oldest dad in the world
gave you this assignment, which
means you must be ready for it.
As a dad, I get on my knees and I
fight for my kids.
Let us be those dads who
stop the generational pass
(00:22):
down of trauma.
I want encounters with
God, where he teaches me
what to do with my kids I know
I'm going to be an awesome dad
because I'm gonna give it my all.
we cannot overestimate the
power of our words.
(00:42):
And God designed it that way.
He created the whole universe using
His words. He could have created it
any way He wanted. Then He created
us in His image, giving us power in
our words, and especially for
fathers to their children, the
power to being able to bless your
child with your words, encouraging
them, or the negative impact
of being really critical.
Either way, the words we're speaking
(01:03):
to our kids, they're gonna become
the soundtrack, the inner voice
in those kids' heads as they
grow. I mean, they're gonna hear our
voices for the rest of their lives.
Hey guys, welcome back to Dad
Awesome. Today, episode 376,
I have Dave Willis joining
me. Dave, along with his
(01:23):
wife Ashley, they've invested
the last couple decades of their
life in resourcing.
cheering for helping
inspiring Christian
marriages.
So his book, The Naked Marriage,
another book he wrote for parents
called Raising Boys Who
Respect Girls.
They've got another handful of books
(01:44):
and their podcast, Marriage
on the Line, a phenomenal resource.
I'm so grateful for today's
conversation with Dave Willis.
We're gonna jump into some topics
that are not gonna be as
helpful for little ears.
So if you're listening with your
young kids, There's just a couple
heavier topics that we discuss
today, so just to be aware.
But I wanna quick invite you guys,
(02:04):
April 11th is the deadline to
apply to be a part of the
Dad Awesome Accelerator.
This is our fourth cohort.
We're gonna host this round on
Wednesdays from April 23rd
through May 28th.
It's a six-week sprint, packaging
everything we've learned in
six years of Dad Awesome into six
weeks. Guys, I want you to send
(02:25):
me an email and learn more about
this opportunity. we've got a
four-minute overview video to
share with you. We've got the six
accelerator promises,
there's six kind of expectations,
and we want to invite you guys to
prayerfully apply.
But apply, you've got one more week
through April 11th to be a part of
the spring cohort.
I am so thankful for this resource.
(02:46):
I'm thankful for all the dads who
have already said yes, and I'm
praying that you will explore
joining us for this next round.
So send an email to at
dadawesome.org.
simply email awesome at
dadawesome.org to learn more about
the next round of the Dad Awesome
Accelerator.
Okay, I've already introduced Dave.
Excited for you guys to hear today's
(03:06):
conversation. This is episode 376
with Dave Willis.
Dave, thanks for joining me for a
dad-awesome conversation.
Thanks for having me.
It's been a long time that I've been
(03:27):
listening to your podcast or
watching the YouTube channels,
learning about marriage, about
parenting, and grateful that
now we can kind of team up and have
a conversation together.
So tell me this though, to start in,
you've got four boys, I have four
girls. You're a chapter ahead
of me. My oldest is 11.
Isn't your youngest around nine, 10?
How old is your youngest?
Yeah, our youngest just turned 10.
Our oldest is about to turn
(03:49):
20.
It's a different chapter, different
chapter.
And we are, you know, we often,
we're praying for dads.
I pray with a bias towards
dads of boys.
I pray more for dads with boys
because I have a vested interest
in praying for those.
Lord let there be some good men
for these girls to marry
That's it, at least four.
God, at at least 4 did that.
(04:10):
I'm curious, though, what are you
learning in this chapter?
Like, where do you find yourself the
aha or the discoveries in the dad
life? Any recent learnings?
I will say that the learning keeps
coming, you know, you don't,
you never get to a place where
you're like, all right, I got this
figured out.
And as soon as you think you got to
figure out with one kid, the season
changes and they're into something
different and you have to reshuffle
(04:32):
the deck. And then what works with
one kids doesn't always work with
another because everyone's so
unique. But I would
say, man...
part of what I'm learning is
to just try to slow down and
be present more.
I think in the early years of
fatherhood especially, it was
just the pace.
The pace is still intense.
(04:54):
I don't have the energy that I had
20 years ago when the journey began.
So I kind of had to slow it down.
But I think just being
present in these
moments in like every single day
looking for looking for the
undistracted one-on-one conversation
with each kid, trying to connect
with them in their world each day.
It doesn't have to be big or fancy
(05:14):
or structured, but being intentional
about that, those tend to be
my best moments of the day.
Whereas I think in the early years,
I missed a lot of that because I
was just, I was running too hard
or I thought family time had to look
a certain way.
And I don't know, maybe it's
life or age or
whatever, but I'm more laid
(05:36):
back now.
And I think that's helping me catch
more moments that I missed early on.
Your youngest son,
at this 10-year-old moment,
I'm just wondering, is
there any areas you're like, this is
for sure different than what our
oldest son, when he was 10 years
ago, when he was ten?
Any calibrations?
You're like yep, this is different
in how I
(05:57):
roll out the dad life.
I feel like I got
angry faster when
they were younger.
And I hate that.
I hate for my older, I mean, they're
not, I don't think they're scarred
or anything. I wasn't
beating on them.
But I did just, I had a shorter fuse
and I hate they saw that.
Because when our kids, what they see
(06:18):
in us, they think is healthy and
they think it's normal, even if it's
totally broken.
And so with our younger one,
I find myself like, I'm
way more patient.
with him.
Now, in some ways, the
older boys got a better version of
me because I was more energetic.
The younger one gets a better
versions because I'm more patient.
So maybe it's a flip-flop,
(06:39):
but that is one thing.
He's getting a more
patient version of me.
Even just in the 10 years between
oldest and youngest, though, I've
like the invasion of just kind
of screens everywhere.
been harder to navigate than it was
for the first one,
second one even, because now
(06:59):
that's just their world.
They're immersed all the time and
you have to be so intentional to
do, to find things to get them off
screen. So with my first kids,
it was like, they were wanting me to
go outside, dragging me outside
to go do something.
With my younger two kids, I'm
having to beg and drag them to get
outside and get off the screen.
And that changed fast.
(07:19):
I mean, that's one thing that's
changed.
And I've learned to not ask the
screen question, the phone, the
video game, that question as a
capsule of this is the forever
truth. Instead, I've asked like,
hey, what's the current chapter?
Like how do boundaries for your
specifically your youngest to like,
what is current chapter of
boundaries, expectations,
limits, like what does that look
(07:40):
like right now for you guys?
It is always evolving.
One good rule that
we've kind of stuck to
is that we don't let them have
screens in their bedroom.
So whether it's a TV or anything,
it's like, so when they go to
bed, having that bedtime, they don't
have to go right to sleep, but it's
(08:02):
sometimes the only time of their
day, even school included,
where there are no screens and
like they have to read a book or
they have use their imagination or
they to do something.
And I'm really thankful that we
stuck to that.
Outside of that,
video games, how much you can play,
how much he can't play.
Like for our youngest one,
it's still, he just gets
(08:23):
to play on the weekends and then he
can like, he can earn
weekday time.
Sure.
And so he's always lobbying for
that. He's like, hey, I got this.
I'm so curious. What are some of the
ways he can...
can earn weekend time or
weekday time.
Yeah, so he gets, you know,
he can get weekday time like, you
know when he gets his report card,
you know his grades are good, you
(08:44):
know he'd get a bonus day for that.
If he, you now, if,
usually we let him know ahead of
time like, hey, if you'll do this,
if you help with this project or you
do this thing, the reward will be
you can get like a weeknight
bonus and he loves that
stuff.
So having such a strong incentive is
good to be able to leverage
teaching moments.
(09:06):
But if the boys had it their way,
they would just, they would be on a
screen 24 seven.
And that's, it's tough because
on one hand, they need to be able to
navigate the digital world that
they're gonna live in.
But on the other hand, as parents,
we're all living in uncharted
waters, trying to figure out how to
equip them to be be able handle the
technology, especially when they're
out there on their own and they're
(09:27):
having to manage these boundaries by
themselves, while still
letting them have a childhood
that's not sabotaged just by
Springs.
Right, right.
I kind of take an unconventional
approach to preparing for these
conversations. And I was just
random, like word searching around
your name and parenting or this or
that. And I discovered a poem
(09:48):
that you wrote.
like nine years ago, and
when I tell you that I love
you, this poem, do you remember
writing this poem? Yeah, yeah I do.
It's not a different, Dave Wills,
so I'm not
going to read the
poem, I'm gonna include it in the
show notes, but to me, This
is just such a theme for my four
little girls. And we talk about how
(10:09):
much dad loves them.
We talk about, you know, how
many miles and how many times
around the earth or to the moon and
back and like we use, but I just,
it was such a fun read
to think about you expressing love
to your boys.
And now that'll just be a hook for
the guys to go to the show notes and
read it. Thank you.
Thank you. Thanks for finding that.
Yeah, that's that's a good find
(10:30):
Yeah hadn't I hadn't thought about I
needed I need to dig that and like
share that with the younger boys
because I don't
Yeah, I wrote that in
a different season when the younger
boy is like we're too young to even
Comprehend it. So yeah, I need it.
It'll make a smile
to make the younger one smile.
I guarantee my 11-year-old will, is
gonna smile and laugh when she reads
it. And it was written before AI,
(10:52):
so we know it was your creativity
versus.
But that theme of love
and expressing love with our
words as dads, would you just kind
of, yeah, where does that take you
right now when you think about
expressing words with, or expressing
love through words written or
verbal?
Well, I feel like we
cannot overestimate the power
(11:13):
of our words.
And God designed it that way,
that He created the whole universe
using His words.
He could have created it any way He
wanted. Then He created us in His
image, giving us power in our words,
and especially for fathers
to their children, the
power to being able to bless your
child with your words,
encouraging them, is,
(11:34):
or the negative impact
of being really critical.
either way, the words we're
speaking to our kids are
going to become the soundtrack,
the inner voice in those kids'
heads as they grow.
I mean, they're going to hear our
voices for the rest of their lives,
whether the words were speaking are
loving and kind or
(11:56):
not.
Especially when kids are little,
it's like there's wet cement in
their mind and heart.
And the words we're speak, they are
forming impressions there.
Over time, those impressions harden
and they form their worldview.
in large part, based on
the way that we're speaking life
and encouragement or criticism
to them.
And a lot of us are carrying around
scars of words, negative words that
(12:18):
were spoken over us.
And we need to do the work of
finding healing and letting the Lord
bring healing to that.
But I don't know, I mean,
words have power. That's really been
a theme Ashley and I
have been leaning into in our
parenting, even in our speaking
when we're going out, like instead
of.
just talking about sex
(12:38):
and all those kinds of things, which
we still do.
I really feel like the words thing
right now is
something the Lord's just saying
like, hey, this needs attention.
This is something that people are
underestimating and as parents,
we've got to get this right.
Yeah, I wanna explore how words,
even relating to, I mean, a couple
decades of you and your wife,
(13:00):
Ashley.
building into marriage and
strengthening and going to topics
that maybe some other radio shows,
podcast conferences aren't going
there. And even themes that you guys
have titled books
and events and podcasters
around naked marriage and
around like, just like, let's go
there, right? Like you kind of, you
know what you're getting into,
(13:21):
you're going to hit these topics.
If I go to words
and words with your boys,
words can also unlock.
categories of conversation that
becomes safe and builds a foundation
for the future of these
boys being young men and married
men who have less baggage to
bring to the marriage.
So there's a whole thread there that
(13:42):
I'm excited to explore with you.
What are some ways we can use, dads
can use their words and
intentionality to form a foundation
of God's.
When God sees sex, when God
sees this phase you're going through
right now as a young man, when God
see what you did, because you
stumbled into looking at this thing
that like could bring hiddenness,
(14:03):
but no, this is like using words
like that. Could you, really I'm
asking, take us into how you
feel about the sex talk with your
boys, but I wanna focus even
broader than a talk into like
safety with our words that we bring
to our boys.
I think it's
not the sex talk,
(14:23):
really. I think, it's the
conversations, the talks, plural,
that we're having all the way
through, you know? I mean, all the
through, and it starts young
where you're talking about just how
God made you a boy or God made a
girl and how that's a beautiful
thing. Like, we're living in a
culture where something as simple as
that has been confused and hijacked
and sabotaged, so.
(14:43):
to just celebrate the fact that
God made you beautifully and
wonderfully made. He made no
mistakes when He made you.
Your gender is a gift.
It is a, it is a given by God.
It's a gift with no return or
exchange policy.
And it's part of,
it's a part of His design and
a very important part of his design
(15:03):
for your life. And it means that one
day you'll get to be a father.
One day you get to a mother.
and what that means, but to
celebrate it and to let them know
like your body's not dirty
or shameful, yeah, there are certain
parts that are private and we need
to be really careful with
that and make sure that nobody's
touching us inappropriately and
talking openly about if anybody ever
(15:24):
does come to us and,
but removing shame
from stuff.
Cause I think whenever we're,
we try to like scare kids with
we think we're protecting them, but
it's like, oh, we know we don't, we
never talk about that.
We cover this and what they're
hearing in their minds are like,
these parts are dirty or
(15:44):
something is wrong with me, I'm
dirty.
And so even from an early age,
celebrating the fact that God
made your body, your body's a
beautiful thing.
Your gender is a beautiful things.
As they get older, as they start
getting older,
talking about the changes that are
coming.
and celebrating it.
(16:05):
Again, not looking at it with fear
or anything, or even awkwardness,
just saying, hey, you're gonna be
becoming a man or a
woman. And that is so amazing.
And here are some things that are
gonna happen.
Like, you know, you are gonna,
these are some of the changes you
can expect.
And ours talks have only been with
boys. So we haven't had to get into
(16:26):
like menstruation and you know all
of that, which is.
which is a whole different realm.
I'll let Jeff handle those
conversations for you guys.
Yes, yes.
So I'm more like,
you know, we're talking about,
you get to wear deodorant
now because you need it.
You stink and that means you're
(16:46):
becoming a man.
You're gonna start getting some
pubes and that's
awesome.
And I don't need to see them.
But if you want to like, give me a
fist bump and let me know when any
arrive, I'll celebrate with you.
Like, but just celebrating,
celebrating those things. And then
of course, you know, with time
talking about the counterfeits out
there, being honest about
(17:07):
pornography, which was a struggle
I fell into in my teenage years.
We've talked a lot about that.
And that's just everywhere in the
world these kids are growing up
in, whether they're looking for it
or not.
They're being bombarded with these
counterfeit messages about
sex.
and body image, and so just
trying to be a safe place to be
(17:28):
honest about, hey, you're gonna hear
things that aren't true, that aren'
real, that are right, that are
broken messages, but God has a plan
for sex, and it's beautiful and
awesome, but it's for marriage,
and just trying establish that
foundation so that our kids aren't
afraid to talk to us about the big
questions when they start
hearing stuff, and they will hear
stuff.
(17:49):
The counterfeits, you're your
youngest, your 10-year-old, I think
that is the average age that kids
are exposed to pornography.
Was it a few years ago that you
talked to that son about counterfeit
or what, roughly when?
Were you letting know some of
the shadow side of God's beauty
and how he's made our
bodies of like, this is harmful
(18:09):
and you can come talk to me if
you see something, when was that
conversation?
Yeah, so for our youngest,
who is 10, I think it was
two years ago when he was like
eight and we had, you know, we'd had
kind of some general conversations
about, but I didn't really think
like this was kind of an issue yet,
(18:30):
but we'd gone on a vacation
somewhere and
wherever we were.
there was like an abnormally large
amount of young ladies wearing
abnormally small bathing suits,
which so like it was
just out in his face.
And as an eight-year-old even,
he was clocking it.
Like, okay, this is
(18:50):
new, this different, you know,
I wonder, I wonder you
know what is
happening underneath the bathing
suit. Cause this is something I
haven't seen. So we have
Covenant Eyes, we have filtering
softwares on our device, and out
of curiosity, he did
a search as an eight-year-old
on an iPad at the house for,
(19:12):
I think it was for naked lady
or something.
And it blocked the search and it
sent us an alert.
And so we realized
that it was him.
And we talked to him and he
was so like, There was like shame
and embarrassment and.
He felt dirty, felt guilty.
He was just, you know, he was,
(19:34):
which is how the devil wants us to
feel.
And I was like, no, buddy, listen,
like God put that curiosity in
you and he made our
bodies to be beautiful
and he make you to
notice that and to notice the beauty
of it. But when we look at a woman,
and just look at her like
in an object, then that's
(19:56):
hurtful to her, that's heartful to
ourselves, that hurts God,
because that's God's daughter.
And one day in marriage,
we start in like age-appropriate
ways talk about it, why it's
inappropriate to search that,
why it is natural to be curious
about that, how we have to
kind of guard our eyes and...
but to do it in a way that hopefully
(20:16):
takes the shame away.
And then also there were some
consequences like, well, I think you
knew that that we've talked enough
to know where you knew that was an
inappropriate thing to look for,
even though it didn't, you didn't
see it, you were looking for it.
And so we're gonna have to take
this iPad away for a while.
Yeah.
in a way that it, it doesn't add
(20:36):
shame, but it lets you know that
like, all right, you've got to, you
have to maintain trust.
And trust, yeah.
Yeah, so that was the
way that it was for him,
you know, like in our older boys
before kind of the digital age,
I remember our second son, who's
about 18 now, I was in a
barber shop with him
(20:57):
and he was probably about eight.
and he was staring in this magazine
with huge eyes.
And it was like just a regular
magazine. And I looked, I was like,
what are you looking at, buddy?
And it like a lady in a bikini
in this ad.
And I had to have the same
conversation with him right
there in the barbershop.
But then, you know, he's a little
bit more rebellious.
(21:17):
Like five minutes later, he's
holding up a different magazine,
like a fishing magazine, and his
eyes are huge again.
And I grabbed it, and he at eight
years old had put the original
magazine inside the fishing
magazine. He's covered!
He was going for it.
He was like, he's like, Dad, I'm
sorry, I just really like looking at
that bikini girl.
(21:37):
Okay, so we had to kind of like
double down on the talk, but.
It's no no.
dull moments in raising kids.
Yeah, but that a moment with
love and safety,
and we're not going to go to shame,
we're going to to intentional
explanation,
(21:58):
a firm curiosity.
I mean, this is, to me, this is
not what I experienced as a young
man, of the safety of,
this how I feel.
Like, he didn't even say it in the
barbershop, of like, I like looking,
like.
That relationship is such a
gift, and the moment's a gift of
just knowing, oh, my son is
desiring, and has
been like, so I just love,
(22:19):
there's a celebration too.
Really, this is what I found through
all of your radio
shows, podcasts, books,
content you've created around
marriage and sex is just like...
let's go celebration and
healing and wholeness.
And yeah, so I love that that's the
direction you went with answering
that question.
And there's a, oh, one other
(22:40):
question is around, I know you
chatted with at least your older
boys about your journey of
stumbling, of getting the
grip of pornography.
Roughly what age was that that you
actually shared that this was a
struggle for you?
Yeah, so it's, I've
been really honest,
you know, and it's like always
honest, but like,
(23:03):
as they get older, you can get more
detailed, I guess.
So with our two older ones, by this
point, like, you know I've kind of
told them everything,
even as they've gotten into
relationships, you know our second
son, who's about 18, you know he's
gotten into a dating relationship.
And so we've, you now we've talked
about boundaries
(23:23):
there and
And he's asked questions.
And I try to just be like really
honest with him, even with the
uncomfortable stuff. And he was
like, well, what about you and
mom? Like, did you and Mom have
sex with each other?
Did you and Mum do this?
And I've had to say
like, listen, we did not.
Your mom, she's always done things
(23:45):
the right way in that department.
And when we got together...
we both committed to doing it right.
Before your mom, like I started out
with really good boundaries in my
dating relationships.
I'd fallen into pornography.
That really not
only kept me in that pattern of
sin, but it eroded boundaries
in relationships and little
(24:05):
by little, I started making
bad choices in these dating
relationships and like, you know,
where I...
never got to the point of having
intercourse, like I had,
there was sexual sin in those
relationships that I deeply regret.
And I wanna protect you from
falling into that because it's just,
you gotta decide in advance,
(24:27):
you can't decide in a moment of
temptation what you're gonna do.
You have to decide in advanced kind
of where those boundaries
are. And I said, and if
you're looking at the wrong things,
you're thinking on the wrong thing,
it's gonna totally blur and erode
those boundaries and move those
boundary lines in the wrong
direction.
And to be able to talk about it
(24:48):
in terms of my own experience, which
I know a lot of dads are
terrified of having those
conversations because we want our
kids to see us as
perfect, but our
teaching authority, moral
authority, doesn't come from a place
of perfection.
And our kids don't need it to come
from place of reflection, but they
desperately needed to come from a
(25:08):
placed of honesty and authenticity
to say like, listen, this is where I
blew it. This is where God,
you know, broad healing.
And even though he bringsforgiveness,
like there's still baggage
and there's still pain
that those decisions cause.
And I want to protect you and
prevent you from that.
And so I've had
those conversations with them.
(25:31):
I mean, I don't know if it's like a
magic age as much as knowing each
child kind of where that child
is and
kind of going from there.
Dave, I'm hearing you explain,
and I'm confession of sin to
God, to friends,
trusted friends, to spouse,
(25:54):
but it's not confession of sins
to your boys, but its
humility and
vulnerability that feels to
me, I am just like cheering as
a dad of girls, thinking about dads.
going there with their boys and
explaining like this connects to
this for me this is my journey
and how I wish like I
(26:14):
could have gone this path and you
can go this path like so I like
thank you for explaining the answer
even though it's not yeah it's a
formula but it's uh it's a
posture that I pray that
all of us dads would lean into
with more courage so uh
can you can you think of any
resources to help uh
passport to purity is one that's
come up a number of is a, is a
(26:35):
curriculum. as any other
top of mind, curriculums,
books, helpful resources
around these conversations.
Yeah, but you know, Passports of
Purity, which is a family life
resource, was helpful to
us. We're actually talking to Family
Life now about helping them
kind of do an updated version.
Yes, that Ashley would create.
(26:57):
That Ashley and I would do with
Family Life.
So stay tuned.
I mean, I think that's gonna happen.
It's not like totally for sure, but
I feel like that's most likely gonna
happen where it would be like
a video training resources on how to
teach kids about sex, which I would
so wanna do.
Um, for- Boys in
particular, I actually have a book
out called Raising Boys Who Respect
(27:18):
Girls, which is really all
on this topic.
It's like what
the Bible has to say about sex,
it's about fatherhood, it's teaching
young men specifically in
age-appropriate ways how to
walk in that manhood and walk in
purity.
And I feel like that's a helpful
resource that not
(27:38):
just from
my experience, but a whole lot of
people's experiences went into
creating that resource and
there's more out there, but it's one
of those areas where there's a lot
of room for more resources.
So if you're listening to this and
you're thinking, man, I wish my
church had something or this,
maybe God's tapping you on the
shoulder to
(27:59):
use your testimony or
use your abilities to say
like, I wanna help.
create something around
this, because all of us
need each other's voices
in this.
And it's one of the scariest
parts of parenthood, but we don't
have to figure it out on our own.
We can help each other.
I'm so glad you brought up
(28:20):
that side of, cause that's how,
that's my primary way of growing is
by learning, gathering resources,
asking questions.
Like this ministry, Dad Awesome has
been a gift to
me as the champion of
it. Like, right, I grow through.
So I pray often
that more dads would be the spark
in some way.
We just need more of us that are
(28:41):
saying, I wanna make a difference
and I wanna share.
So thank you for that.
Also your book, Raising Boys Who
Respect Girls.
That was like my next thing to bring
up. So thank you for bringing it up.
And like seven-ish years ago,
now I have not yet had a
chance to read, partially because I
still read with a little bit of a
bias towards it. I wanna learn for
raising girls.
So I think it'd be helpful
(29:02):
for-
You need to write the, you need to
write the girl version, raising the,
raising godly, raising girl.
I mean, there's, cause
I wasn't going to touch that.
I'm like, I don't have any
experience here.
Sure.
I'm not going to do it.
So I was, I was waiting for
Jeff to come along and write the
girls version.
Well, is there anything, though, in
the last six, seven years since you
(29:22):
wrote that book that you're like,
oh, this is another discovery in the
topic of raising boys who respect
girls?
You know, I know we've hit some of
the topics, but there's a whole
other set of themes underneath
that theme.
Well, gosh, I'll tell you, like
right now, the stuff that
scares me the most for
our culture is kind
of the way that technology,
(29:42):
kind of, the next iteration of
pornography is, you know,
not to turn this into like a science
fiction thing, but this is where
things are headed.
Like the AIs come in so far and
robotic technology is coming so far
that in the
in your future, the
prevalence of...
of AI, very human-like
sex robots are
(30:03):
going to be all
over the place, and it
creates this whole moral and ethical
dilemma, especially for people that
aren't Christians that are trying to
navigate this without God's design
for sex, where they're like, well,
yeah, why would I not learn
with this tool that's basically
just helping?
It's basically, I'm still just
masturbating. This isn't even sex.
I'm just using it with technology.
(30:24):
But when we
look at a human form,
something that's created to look
exactly like a young woman and
to react and act and look and talk
like a woman, there is no way
we can have those kind of
interactions and it not
objectify actual
women.
We're learning about sex from,
(30:46):
and I think porn
is probably going to start going
more in that direction as the
technology comes along where it's
not just with people but it's with
these these robots in
that.
desensitizes, even if you're only
watching it, it's desensitating
you further from the sacredness of
sex and from the sacrilege
of just a human body created
(31:06):
in God's image because you're like,
I can look at every person
now just as
nothing more than an object to help
me get to this place of pleasure.
And so we've kind of been tracking
along with where technology is going
with that. And even this year at
some of the big tech shows,
there've been unveilings of you
know, some of these.
(31:27):
you know, some of these, you know
robots, people are spending a lot
of money and time to
quickly develop these on
a higher level and mass produce
them.
And I know that all sounds like
sci-fi, but I'm telling you like
10 years from now,
that's what the conversations are
gonna be about.
And if we're all taken surprised
(31:49):
by it, then we're
gonna be completely overwhelmed.
So now's the time to start having
those conversations about not just
porn,
It's not just like
porn and vibrators
or things like,
it's like things that look and act
human
and how we're called to respond
(32:09):
to that is a huge counterfeit
to God's design.
I'm doing the Bible through the year
this year and Leviticus
was just like the past week and
these boundaries God has set
up for sex and
I'm thinking like my mind jumped to
those passages when you're talking
about like no
those things are not listed
specifically but
(32:31):
outside of God's plan was so clear
from animals to this to
that to relational stuff like,
oh, my goodness.
I could get stuck here for a while.
So I'll jump forward, but thank you
for the, just bring it up another
category to prayerfully
not go and hide from, but
be leading on the
home.
Well, no, it is a
(32:52):
modern form of bestiality,
because I see that saying,
having sexual contact
with any non-human body
is just, it's
a complete misuse of sex, whether
it's back then,
it was an animal,
or now when it's
technology designed to look like
(33:13):
a body, and all
of that is a misuse.
it's going to cause you know,
pain and regret and baggage, and
it's going to desensitize us.
And so
Yeah, and just beware,
dads, that that's
out there and that it's coming and
that our kids are gonna be growing
up or that's gonna be a real issue
(33:34):
and a real temptation, that
we need to give them some tools to
navigate because it's like, well, my
parents told me not to have sex with
anybody, but what could it hurt to
learn with this little tool over
here and...
we need to equip them for that.
Yeah, let's swing to the other
side of this conversation, which is
flourishing in God's plan.
Yeah, there we go.
So your gift that you
(33:56):
and your wife have on your website
of the free ebook,
Nine Days to Great Sex.
So I have not actually, I discovered
this just a few days ago in
preparing. My wife and I have gone
through, I think you recommend a
chapter a day to kind of unpack
and to have a lot of fun during this
experience, but it's
going after Some of the
baggage, right, some of the, there's
(34:17):
so many layers to a conversation
about having great
sex in a marriage.
And could you just give the flyover,
we're gonna link it for sure, for
all of our dads to go download
and dive in.
And then of course, all your books,
there's almost too many for me to
bring up in this conversation, but
we'll make sure to recommend and
link them.
Why did you release this
(34:37):
free ebook?
Well, we didn't want there to be
any excuse or barrier keeping
people from this message.
We really felt like this is a
message that we wanna get out there,
that sex is a gift.
God wants you to thrive in it in
marriage, but we have to do it God's
way to really thrive and how
to work through past baggage, how to
through our own insecurities,
(34:59):
the counterfeit messages we've been
bombarded with and
to thrive and marriage, to
be naked and unashamed the way God
intended us to be in marriage.
And to flourish, like you said, it's
the very, very first thing
that God
said to the very first couple, be
fruitful and multiply.
And the very first word he said, the
be fruitful, is the Hebrew word
(35:20):
parah, which really means
to flourish.
So essentially the very thing he
said to us is
flourish, thrive,
and he wants that
for you in your marriage and
not just to survive, but to really
thrive. So.
Free ebook can help, it's
daveandashley.com.
And I'm sure Jeff will have that
link in the show notes and
(35:41):
click on that, get the free
ebook.
But I hope that it
is an encouragement to you and
really helps you and your spouse
talk about sex with each other
because we've talked a lot about
talking about sex with our kids,
which is one conversation.
A whole different conversation is
in marriage, having the
courage and the vulnerability to
(36:01):
really talk about your sex
life. your desires,
your insecurities, all
of it.
And it takes
vulnerability and courage, but it'll
help you get to a new level in your
intimacy, both inside and outside
the bedroom.
Dave, I was gonna kinda thread back
to the power of words.
And this like, it does feel like
(36:23):
you're helping, you're giving the
gift of this ebook to guide.
men, the dads listening right now,
often it's the words, it's talking
about, it's expressing that I
struggle with.
So I'll be the first to say thank
you. And I want to
add more intentionality on that
front of words, conversation,
talk about versus just being,
(36:43):
rhythms or patterns of feeling stuck
in this area.
That will actually, I think there's
probably some link to flourishing
that gives us more courage to talk
to our kids and have those
conversations with our kids.
So it's probably all overlapping.
But do you have any last just any
last words any last thing you want
to share with our dad awesome
community?
Well, I want to applaud
you dads for,
(37:04):
hey, you've listened to the end,
way to go, way to finish strong.
And thank you for taking time
to invest in being a better dad,
which is what you're doing by
listening to this podcast.
I just think it is the
best thing that we as men can
focus on improving. We spend so much
time trying to improve our health or
our golf game or whatever it is.
(37:26):
And those things are all fine and
good, but.
But really, the things that are
gonna impact eternity and legacy, I
can't think of anything more
valuable than just improving his
dads. And it's something I wanna
keep getting better at every day.
And I appreciate you, Jeff, and what
you're doing to lead this community.
So just wanna affirm you
dads, because I know we can be so
hard on ourselves sometimes and
(37:46):
hear those negative soundtracks in
our mind, a fair place that we feel
like we're not measuring up.
But just know, like, you
are.
Just the fact that you're listening
to this now tells me a lot about
your character and your desire.
And so I just wanna affirm you
and cheer you on in that.
That's good, thank you.
Can you say a short prayer over all
of us dads?
Absolutely. Father, I lift up every
(38:08):
dad that's listening.
I pray for Jeff that you would
continue to bless him and his
precious four daughters and
his wife in this ministry
and continue to, Lord, just expand
the reach of the important message
that he's sharing here. And I pray
for every dad that's listening.
all over the world right now,
whenever and wherever they're
listening, I just believe they're
(38:29):
not listening by accident that
you've brought them to this moment
to encourage them, to equip them,
to remind them that you're with them
and for them in their fatherhood
journey.
And just help all of us as men,
God, to pass along generational
blessing instead of baggage to our
kids. Help us, Lord, to speak words
of life.
Help us Lord to receive the words of
(38:50):
live you have spoken over us in
your word. And, uh...
love our kids out of the overflow of
love in our heart for you.
We love you, Lord.
We thank you for the gift of
fatherhood and we thank you for
being the only perfect father and
for loving us so well.
In Jesus' name, amen.
(39:10):
Thank you so much for joining us for
episode 376
with Dave Willis, all the
conversation links, the links to
Dave's books, the other resources
that him and his wife have created.
They've got a free ebook, Nine Days
to Great Sex, and then
the parenting book about raising
boys who respect girls.
That's all gonna be linked at the
podcast page at dadawesome.org
(39:32):
slash podcast.
And then just look for the most
recent.
episode 376 guys thanks
for listening we talked about a lot
of topics I want to encourage you
let's be dads with a
bias towards action What
is it you heard today?
You can even skim back through the
show notes, the transcripts of our
key takeaways again, are at that
(39:52):
link I mentioned and in your podcast
player.
Is there something, is there one way
that you can take a bias towards
action, being a dad of action?
Dad awesome is not good intent.
It's dads who move towards action
and pursuing the hearts of
your family, your kids, adjusting
your priorities in alignment with
taking action.
So I wanna pray that there's one.
(40:13):
action point from after listening
today. Praying for you, cheering for
you. Have a great week, guys.
Being a great father takes a massive
amount of courage.
Instead of being an amazing leader
and a decent dad, I want to be an
amazing dad and a descent leader.
The oldest dad in the world
gave you this assignment, which
means you must be ready for it.
As a dad, I get on my knees and I
fight for my kids.
Let us be those dads who
stop the generational pass
(00:22):
down of trauma.
I want encounters with
God, where he teaches me
what to do with my kids I know
I'm going to be an awesome dad
because I'm gonna give it my all.
we cannot overestimate the
power of our words.
(00:42):
And God designed it that way.
He created the whole universe using
His words. He could have created it
any way He wanted. Then He created
us in His image, giving us power in
our words, and especially for
fathers to their children, the
power to being able to bless your
child with your words, encouraging
them, or the negative impact
of being really critical.
Either way, the words we're speaking
(01:03):
to our kids, they're gonna become
the soundtrack, the inner voice
in those kids' heads as they
grow. I mean, they're gonna hear our
voices for the rest of their lives.
Hey guys, welcome back to Dad
Awesome. Today, episode 376,
I have Dave Willis joining
me. Dave, along with his
(01:23):
wife Ashley, they've invested
the last couple decades of their
life in resourcing.
cheering for helping
inspiring Christian
marriages.
So his book, The Naked Marriage,
another book he wrote for parents
called Raising Boys Who
Respect Girls.
They've got another handful of books
(01:44):
and their podcast, Marriage
on the Line, a phenomenal resource.
I'm so grateful for today's
conversation with Dave Willis.
We're gonna jump into some topics
that are not gonna be as
helpful for little ears.
So if you're listening with your
young kids, There's just a couple
heavier topics that we discuss
today, so just to be aware.
But I wanna quick invite you guys,
(02:04):
April 11th is the deadline to
apply to be a part of the
Dad Awesome Accelerator.
This is our fourth cohort.
We're gonna host this round on
Wednesdays from April 23rd
through May 28th.
It's a six-week sprint, packaging
everything we've learned in
six years of Dad Awesome into six
weeks. Guys, I want you to send
(02:25):
me an email and learn more about
this opportunity. we've got a
four-minute overview video to
share with you. We've got the six
accelerator promises,
there's six kind of expectations,
and we want to invite you guys to
prayerfully apply.
But apply, you've got one more week
through April 11th to be a part of
the spring cohort.
I am so thankful for this resource.
(02:46):
I'm thankful for all the dads who
have already said yes, and I'm
praying that you will explore
joining us for this next round.
So send an email to at
dadawesome.org.
simply email awesome at
dadawesome.org to learn more about
the next round of the Dad Awesome
Accelerator.
Okay, I've already introduced Dave.
Excited for you guys to hear today's
(03:06):
conversation. This is episode 376
with Dave Willis.
Dave, thanks for joining me for a
dad-awesome conversation.
Thanks for having me.
It's been a long time that I've been
(03:27):
listening to your podcast or
watching the YouTube channels,
learning about marriage, about
parenting, and grateful that
now we can kind of team up and have
a conversation together.
So tell me this though, to start in,
you've got four boys, I have four
girls. You're a chapter ahead
of me. My oldest is 11.
Isn't your youngest around nine, 10?
How old is your youngest?
Yeah, our youngest just turned 10.
Our oldest is about to turn
(03:49):
20.
It's a different chapter, different
chapter.
And we are, you know, we often,
we're praying for dads.
I pray with a bias towards
dads of boys.
I pray more for dads with boys
because I have a vested interest
in praying for those.
Lord let there be some good men
for these girls to marry
That's it, at least four.
God, at at least 4 did that.
(04:10):
I'm curious, though, what are you
learning in this chapter?
Like, where do you find yourself the
aha or the discoveries in the dad
life? Any recent learnings?
I will say that the learning keeps
coming, you know, you don't,
you never get to a place where
you're like, all right, I got this
figured out.
And as soon as you think you got to
figure out with one kid, the season
changes and they're into something
different and you have to reshuffle
(04:32):
the deck. And then what works with
one kids doesn't always work with
another because everyone's so
unique. But I would
say, man...
part of what I'm learning is
to just try to slow down and
be present more.
I think in the early years of
fatherhood especially, it was
just the pace.
The pace is still intense.
(04:54):
I don't have the energy that I had
20 years ago when the journey began.
So I kind of had to slow it down.
But I think just being
present in these
moments in like every single day
looking for looking for the
undistracted one-on-one conversation
with each kid, trying to connect
with them in their world each day.
It doesn't have to be big or fancy
(05:14):
or structured, but being intentional
about that, those tend to be
my best moments of the day.
Whereas I think in the early years,
I missed a lot of that because I
was just, I was running too hard
or I thought family time had to look
a certain way.
And I don't know, maybe it's
life or age or
whatever, but I'm more laid
(05:36):
back now.
And I think that's helping me catch
more moments that I missed early on.
Your youngest son,
at this 10-year-old moment,
I'm just wondering, is
there any areas you're like, this is
for sure different than what our
oldest son, when he was 10 years
ago, when he was ten?
Any calibrations?
You're like yep, this is different
in how I
(05:57):
roll out the dad life.
I feel like I got
angry faster when
they were younger.
And I hate that.
I hate for my older, I mean, they're
not, I don't think they're scarred
or anything. I wasn't
beating on them.
But I did just, I had a shorter fuse
and I hate they saw that.
Because when our kids, what they see
(06:18):
in us, they think is healthy and
they think it's normal, even if it's
totally broken.
And so with our younger one,
I find myself like, I'm
way more patient.
with him.
Now, in some ways, the
older boys got a better version of
me because I was more energetic.
The younger one gets a better
versions because I'm more patient.
So maybe it's a flip-flop,
(06:39):
but that is one thing.
He's getting a more
patient version of me.
Even just in the 10 years between
oldest and youngest, though, I've
like the invasion of just kind
of screens everywhere.
been harder to navigate than it was
for the first one,
second one even, because now
(06:59):
that's just their world.
They're immersed all the time and
you have to be so intentional to
do, to find things to get them off
screen. So with my first kids,
it was like, they were wanting me to
go outside, dragging me outside
to go do something.
With my younger two kids, I'm
having to beg and drag them to get
outside and get off the screen.
And that changed fast.
(07:19):
I mean, that's one thing that's
changed.
And I've learned to not ask the
screen question, the phone, the
video game, that question as a
capsule of this is the forever
truth. Instead, I've asked like,
hey, what's the current chapter?
Like how do boundaries for your
specifically your youngest to like,
what is current chapter of
boundaries, expectations,
limits, like what does that look
(07:40):
like right now for you guys?
It is always evolving.
One good rule that
we've kind of stuck to
is that we don't let them have
screens in their bedroom.
So whether it's a TV or anything,
it's like, so when they go to
bed, having that bedtime, they don't
have to go right to sleep, but it's
(08:02):
sometimes the only time of their
day, even school included,
where there are no screens and
like they have to read a book or
they have use their imagination or
they to do something.
And I'm really thankful that we
stuck to that.
Outside of that,
video games, how much you can play,
how much he can't play.
Like for our youngest one,
it's still, he just gets
(08:23):
to play on the weekends and then he
can like, he can earn
weekday time.
Sure.
And so he's always lobbying for
that. He's like, hey, I got this.
I'm so curious. What are some of the
ways he can...
can earn weekend time or
weekday time.
Yeah, so he gets, you know,
he can get weekday time like, you
know when he gets his report card,
you know his grades are good, you
(08:44):
know he'd get a bonus day for that.
If he, you now, if,
usually we let him know ahead of
time like, hey, if you'll do this,
if you help with this project or you
do this thing, the reward will be
you can get like a weeknight
bonus and he loves that
stuff.
So having such a strong incentive is
good to be able to leverage
teaching moments.
(09:06):
But if the boys had it their way,
they would just, they would be on a
screen 24 seven.
And that's, it's tough because
on one hand, they need to be able to
navigate the digital world that
they're gonna live in.
But on the other hand, as parents,
we're all living in uncharted
waters, trying to figure out how to
equip them to be be able handle the
technology, especially when they're
out there on their own and they're
(09:27):
having to manage these boundaries by
themselves, while still
letting them have a childhood
that's not sabotaged just by
Springs.
Right, right.
I kind of take an unconventional
approach to preparing for these
conversations. And I was just
random, like word searching around
your name and parenting or this or
that. And I discovered a poem
(09:48):
that you wrote.
like nine years ago, and
when I tell you that I love
you, this poem, do you remember
writing this poem? Yeah, yeah I do.
It's not a different, Dave Wills,
so I'm not
going to read the
poem, I'm gonna include it in the
show notes, but to me, This
is just such a theme for my four
little girls. And we talk about how
(10:09):
much dad loves them.
We talk about, you know, how
many miles and how many times
around the earth or to the moon and
back and like we use, but I just,
it was such a fun read
to think about you expressing love
to your boys.
And now that'll just be a hook for
the guys to go to the show notes and
read it. Thank you.
Thank you. Thanks for finding that.
Yeah, that's that's a good find
(10:30):
Yeah hadn't I hadn't thought about I
needed I need to dig that and like
share that with the younger boys
because I don't
Yeah, I wrote that in
a different season when the younger
boy is like we're too young to even
Comprehend it. So yeah, I need it.
It'll make a smile
to make the younger one smile.
I guarantee my 11-year-old will, is
gonna smile and laugh when she reads
it. And it was written before AI,
(10:52):
so we know it was your creativity
versus.
But that theme of love
and expressing love with our
words as dads, would you just kind
of, yeah, where does that take you
right now when you think about
expressing words with, or expressing
love through words written or
verbal?
Well, I feel like we
cannot overestimate the power
(11:13):
of our words.
And God designed it that way,
that He created the whole universe
using His words.
He could have created it any way He
wanted. Then He created us in His
image, giving us power in our words,
and especially for fathers
to their children, the
power to being able to bless your
child with your words,
encouraging them, is,
(11:34):
or the negative impact
of being really critical.
either way, the words we're
speaking to our kids are
going to become the soundtrack,
the inner voice in those kids'
heads as they grow.
I mean, they're going to hear our
voices for the rest of their lives,
whether the words were speaking are
loving and kind or
(11:56):
not.
Especially when kids are little,
it's like there's wet cement in
their mind and heart.
And the words we're speak, they are
forming impressions there.
Over time, those impressions harden
and they form their worldview.
in large part, based on
the way that we're speaking life
and encouragement or criticism
to them.
And a lot of us are carrying around
scars of words, negative words that
(12:18):
were spoken over us.
And we need to do the work of
finding healing and letting the Lord
bring healing to that.
But I don't know, I mean,
words have power. That's really been
a theme Ashley and I
have been leaning into in our
parenting, even in our speaking
when we're going out, like instead
of.
just talking about sex
(12:38):
and all those kinds of things, which
we still do.
I really feel like the words thing
right now is
something the Lord's just saying
like, hey, this needs attention.
This is something that people are
underestimating and as parents,
we've got to get this right.
Yeah, I wanna explore how words,
even relating to, I mean, a couple
decades of you and your wife,
(13:00):
Ashley.
building into marriage and
strengthening and going to topics
that maybe some other radio shows,
podcast conferences aren't going
there. And even themes that you guys
have titled books
and events and podcasters
around naked marriage and
around like, just like, let's go
there, right? Like you kind of, you
know what you're getting into,
(13:21):
you're going to hit these topics.
If I go to words
and words with your boys,
words can also unlock.
categories of conversation that
becomes safe and builds a foundation
for the future of these
boys being young men and married
men who have less baggage to
bring to the marriage.
So there's a whole thread there that
(13:42):
I'm excited to explore with you.
What are some ways we can use, dads
can use their words and
intentionality to form a foundation
of God's.
When God sees sex, when God
sees this phase you're going through
right now as a young man, when God
see what you did, because you
stumbled into looking at this thing
that like could bring hiddenness,
(14:03):
but no, this is like using words
like that. Could you, really I'm
asking, take us into how you
feel about the sex talk with your
boys, but I wanna focus even
broader than a talk into like
safety with our words that we bring
to our boys.
I think it's
not the sex talk,
(14:23):
really. I think, it's the
conversations, the talks, plural,
that we're having all the way
through, you know? I mean, all the
through, and it starts young
where you're talking about just how
God made you a boy or God made a
girl and how that's a beautiful
thing. Like, we're living in a
culture where something as simple as
that has been confused and hijacked
and sabotaged, so.
(14:43):
to just celebrate the fact that
God made you beautifully and
wonderfully made. He made no
mistakes when He made you.
Your gender is a gift.
It is a, it is a given by God.
It's a gift with no return or
exchange policy.
And it's part of,
it's a part of His design and
a very important part of his design
(15:03):
for your life. And it means that one
day you'll get to be a father.
One day you get to a mother.
and what that means, but to
celebrate it and to let them know
like your body's not dirty
or shameful, yeah, there are certain
parts that are private and we need
to be really careful with
that and make sure that nobody's
touching us inappropriately and
talking openly about if anybody ever
(15:24):
does come to us and,
but removing shame
from stuff.
Cause I think whenever we're,
we try to like scare kids with
we think we're protecting them, but
it's like, oh, we know we don't, we
never talk about that.
We cover this and what they're
hearing in their minds are like,
these parts are dirty or
(15:44):
something is wrong with me, I'm
dirty.
And so even from an early age,
celebrating the fact that God
made your body, your body's a
beautiful thing.
Your gender is a beautiful things.
As they get older, as they start
getting older,
talking about the changes that are
coming.
and celebrating it.
(16:05):
Again, not looking at it with fear
or anything, or even awkwardness,
just saying, hey, you're gonna be
becoming a man or a
woman. And that is so amazing.
And here are some things that are
gonna happen.
Like, you know, you are gonna,
these are some of the changes you
can expect.
And ours talks have only been with
boys. So we haven't had to get into
(16:26):
like menstruation and you know all
of that, which is.
which is a whole different realm.
I'll let Jeff handle those
conversations for you guys.
Yes, yes.
So I'm more like,
you know, we're talking about,
you get to wear deodorant
now because you need it.
You stink and that means you're
(16:46):
becoming a man.
You're gonna start getting some
pubes and that's
awesome.
And I don't need to see them.
But if you want to like, give me a
fist bump and let me know when any
arrive, I'll celebrate with you.
Like, but just celebrating,
celebrating those things. And then
of course, you know, with time
talking about the counterfeits out
there, being honest about
(17:07):
pornography, which was a struggle
I fell into in my teenage years.
We've talked a lot about that.
And that's just everywhere in the
world these kids are growing up
in, whether they're looking for it
or not.
They're being bombarded with these
counterfeit messages about
sex.
and body image, and so just
trying to be a safe place to be
(17:28):
honest about, hey, you're gonna hear
things that aren't true, that aren'
real, that are right, that are
broken messages, but God has a plan
for sex, and it's beautiful and
awesome, but it's for marriage,
and just trying establish that
foundation so that our kids aren't
afraid to talk to us about the big
questions when they start
hearing stuff, and they will hear
stuff.
(17:49):
The counterfeits, you're your
youngest, your 10-year-old, I think
that is the average age that kids
are exposed to pornography.
Was it a few years ago that you
talked to that son about counterfeit
or what, roughly when?
Were you letting know some of
the shadow side of God's beauty
and how he's made our
bodies of like, this is harmful
(18:09):
and you can come talk to me if
you see something, when was that
conversation?
Yeah, so for our youngest,
who is 10, I think it was
two years ago when he was like
eight and we had, you know, we'd had
kind of some general conversations
about, but I didn't really think
like this was kind of an issue yet,
(18:30):
but we'd gone on a vacation
somewhere and
wherever we were.
there was like an abnormally large
amount of young ladies wearing
abnormally small bathing suits,
which so like it was
just out in his face.
And as an eight-year-old even,
he was clocking it.
Like, okay, this is
(18:50):
new, this different, you know,
I wonder, I wonder you
know what is
happening underneath the bathing
suit. Cause this is something I
haven't seen. So we have
Covenant Eyes, we have filtering
softwares on our device, and out
of curiosity, he did
a search as an eight-year-old
on an iPad at the house for,
(19:12):
I think it was for naked lady
or something.
And it blocked the search and it
sent us an alert.
And so we realized
that it was him.
And we talked to him and he
was so like, There was like shame
and embarrassment and.
He felt dirty, felt guilty.
He was just, you know, he was,
(19:34):
which is how the devil wants us to
feel.
And I was like, no, buddy, listen,
like God put that curiosity in
you and he made our
bodies to be beautiful
and he make you to
notice that and to notice the beauty
of it. But when we look at a woman,
and just look at her like
in an object, then that's
(19:56):
hurtful to her, that's heartful to
ourselves, that hurts God,
because that's God's daughter.
And one day in marriage,
we start in like age-appropriate
ways talk about it, why it's
inappropriate to search that,
why it is natural to be curious
about that, how we have to
kind of guard our eyes and...
but to do it in a way that hopefully
(20:16):
takes the shame away.
And then also there were some
consequences like, well, I think you
knew that that we've talked enough
to know where you knew that was an
inappropriate thing to look for,
even though it didn't, you didn't
see it, you were looking for it.
And so we're gonna have to take
this iPad away for a while.
Yeah.
in a way that it, it doesn't add
(20:36):
shame, but it lets you know that
like, all right, you've got to, you
have to maintain trust.
And trust, yeah.
Yeah, so that was the
way that it was for him,
you know, like in our older boys
before kind of the digital age,
I remember our second son, who's
about 18 now, I was in a
barber shop with him
(20:57):
and he was probably about eight.
and he was staring in this magazine
with huge eyes.
And it was like just a regular
magazine. And I looked, I was like,
what are you looking at, buddy?
And it like a lady in a bikini
in this ad.
And I had to have the same
conversation with him right
there in the barbershop.
But then, you know, he's a little
bit more rebellious.
(21:17):
Like five minutes later, he's
holding up a different magazine,
like a fishing magazine, and his
eyes are huge again.
And I grabbed it, and he at eight
years old had put the original
magazine inside the fishing
magazine. He's covered!
He was going for it.
He was like, he's like, Dad, I'm
sorry, I just really like looking at
that bikini girl.
(21:37):
Okay, so we had to kind of like
double down on the talk, but.
It's no no.
dull moments in raising kids.
Yeah, but that a moment with
love and safety,
and we're not going to go to shame,
we're going to to intentional
explanation,
(21:58):
a firm curiosity.
I mean, this is, to me, this is
not what I experienced as a young
man, of the safety of,
this how I feel.
Like, he didn't even say it in the
barbershop, of like, I like looking,
like.
That relationship is such a
gift, and the moment's a gift of
just knowing, oh, my son is
desiring, and has
been like, so I just love,
(22:19):
there's a celebration too.
Really, this is what I found through
all of your radio
shows, podcasts, books,
content you've created around
marriage and sex is just like...
let's go celebration and
healing and wholeness.
And yeah, so I love that that's the
direction you went with answering
that question.
And there's a, oh, one other
(22:40):
question is around, I know you
chatted with at least your older
boys about your journey of
stumbling, of getting the
grip of pornography.
Roughly what age was that that you
actually shared that this was a
struggle for you?
Yeah, so it's, I've
been really honest,
you know, and it's like always
honest, but like,
(23:03):
as they get older, you can get more
detailed, I guess.
So with our two older ones, by this
point, like, you know I've kind of
told them everything,
even as they've gotten into
relationships, you know our second
son, who's about 18, you know he's
gotten into a dating relationship.
And so we've, you now we've talked
about boundaries
(23:23):
there and
And he's asked questions.
And I try to just be like really
honest with him, even with the
uncomfortable stuff. And he was
like, well, what about you and
mom? Like, did you and Mom have
sex with each other?
Did you and Mum do this?
And I've had to say
like, listen, we did not.
Your mom, she's always done things
(23:45):
the right way in that department.
And when we got together...
we both committed to doing it right.
Before your mom, like I started out
with really good boundaries in my
dating relationships.
I'd fallen into pornography.
That really not
only kept me in that pattern of
sin, but it eroded boundaries
in relationships and little
(24:05):
by little, I started making
bad choices in these dating
relationships and like, you know,
where I...
never got to the point of having
intercourse, like I had,
there was sexual sin in those
relationships that I deeply regret.
And I wanna protect you from
falling into that because it's just,
you gotta decide in advance,
(24:27):
you can't decide in a moment of
temptation what you're gonna do.
You have to decide in advanced kind
of where those boundaries
are. And I said, and if
you're looking at the wrong things,
you're thinking on the wrong thing,
it's gonna totally blur and erode
those boundaries and move those
boundary lines in the wrong
direction.
And to be able to talk about it
(24:48):
in terms of my own experience, which
I know a lot of dads are
terrified of having those
conversations because we want our
kids to see us as
perfect, but our
teaching authority, moral
authority, doesn't come from a place
of perfection.
And our kids don't need it to come
from place of reflection, but they
desperately needed to come from a
(25:08):
placed of honesty and authenticity
to say like, listen, this is where I
blew it. This is where God,
you know, broad healing.
And even though he bringsforgiveness,
like there's still baggage
and there's still pain
that those decisions cause.
And I want to protect you and
prevent you from that.
And so I've had
those conversations with them.
(25:31):
I mean, I don't know if it's like a
magic age as much as knowing each
child kind of where that child
is and
kind of going from there.
Dave, I'm hearing you explain,
and I'm confession of sin to
God, to friends,
trusted friends, to spouse,
(25:54):
but it's not confession of sins
to your boys, but its
humility and
vulnerability that feels to
me, I am just like cheering as
a dad of girls, thinking about dads.
going there with their boys and
explaining like this connects to
this for me this is my journey
and how I wish like I
(26:14):
could have gone this path and you
can go this path like so I like
thank you for explaining the answer
even though it's not yeah it's a
formula but it's uh it's a
posture that I pray that
all of us dads would lean into
with more courage so uh
can you can you think of any
resources to help uh
passport to purity is one that's
come up a number of is a, is a
(26:35):
curriculum. as any other
top of mind, curriculums,
books, helpful resources
around these conversations.
Yeah, but you know, Passports of
Purity, which is a family life
resource, was helpful to
us. We're actually talking to Family
Life now about helping them
kind of do an updated version.
Yes, that Ashley would create.
(26:57):
That Ashley and I would do with
Family Life.
So stay tuned.
I mean, I think that's gonna happen.
It's not like totally for sure, but
I feel like that's most likely gonna
happen where it would be like
a video training resources on how to
teach kids about sex, which I would
so wanna do.
Um, for- Boys in
particular, I actually have a book
out called Raising Boys Who Respect
(27:18):
Girls, which is really all
on this topic.
It's like what
the Bible has to say about sex,
it's about fatherhood, it's teaching
young men specifically in
age-appropriate ways how to
walk in that manhood and walk in
purity.
And I feel like that's a helpful
resource that not
(27:38):
just from
my experience, but a whole lot of
people's experiences went into
creating that resource and
there's more out there, but it's one
of those areas where there's a lot
of room for more resources.
So if you're listening to this and
you're thinking, man, I wish my
church had something or this,
maybe God's tapping you on the
shoulder to
(27:59):
use your testimony or
use your abilities to say
like, I wanna help.
create something around
this, because all of us
need each other's voices
in this.
And it's one of the scariest
parts of parenthood, but we don't
have to figure it out on our own.
We can help each other.
I'm so glad you brought up
(28:20):
that side of, cause that's how,
that's my primary way of growing is
by learning, gathering resources,
asking questions.
Like this ministry, Dad Awesome has
been a gift to
me as the champion of
it. Like, right, I grow through.
So I pray often
that more dads would be the spark
in some way.
We just need more of us that are
(28:41):
saying, I wanna make a difference
and I wanna share.
So thank you for that.
Also your book, Raising Boys Who
Respect Girls.
That was like my next thing to bring
up. So thank you for bringing it up.
And like seven-ish years ago,
now I have not yet had a
chance to read, partially because I
still read with a little bit of a
bias towards it. I wanna learn for
raising girls.
So I think it'd be helpful
(29:02):
for-
You need to write the, you need to
write the girl version, raising the,
raising godly, raising girl.
I mean, there's, cause
I wasn't going to touch that.
I'm like, I don't have any
experience here.
Sure.
I'm not going to do it.
So I was, I was waiting for
Jeff to come along and write the
girls version.
Well, is there anything, though, in
the last six, seven years since you
(29:22):
wrote that book that you're like,
oh, this is another discovery in the
topic of raising boys who respect
girls?
You know, I know we've hit some of
the topics, but there's a whole
other set of themes underneath
that theme.
Well, gosh, I'll tell you, like
right now, the stuff that
scares me the most for
our culture is kind
of the way that technology,
(29:42):
kind of, the next iteration of
pornography is, you know,
not to turn this into like a science
fiction thing, but this is where
things are headed.
Like the AIs come in so far and
robotic technology is coming so far
that in the
in your future, the
prevalence of...
of AI, very human-like
sex robots are
(30:03):
going to be all
over the place, and it
creates this whole moral and ethical
dilemma, especially for people that
aren't Christians that are trying to
navigate this without God's design
for sex, where they're like, well,
yeah, why would I not learn
with this tool that's basically
just helping?
It's basically, I'm still just
masturbating. This isn't even sex.
I'm just using it with technology.
(30:24):
But when we
look at a human form,
something that's created to look
exactly like a young woman and
to react and act and look and talk
like a woman, there is no way
we can have those kind of
interactions and it not
objectify actual
women.
We're learning about sex from,
(30:46):
and I think porn
is probably going to start going
more in that direction as the
technology comes along where it's
not just with people but it's with
these these robots in
that.
desensitizes, even if you're only
watching it, it's desensitating
you further from the sacredness of
sex and from the sacrilege
of just a human body created
(31:06):
in God's image because you're like,
I can look at every person
now just as
nothing more than an object to help
me get to this place of pleasure.
And so we've kind of been tracking
along with where technology is going
with that. And even this year at
some of the big tech shows,
there've been unveilings of you
know, some of these.
(31:27):
you know, some of these, you know
robots, people are spending a lot
of money and time to
quickly develop these on
a higher level and mass produce
them.
And I know that all sounds like
sci-fi, but I'm telling you like
10 years from now,
that's what the conversations are
gonna be about.
And if we're all taken surprised
(31:49):
by it, then we're
gonna be completely overwhelmed.
So now's the time to start having
those conversations about not just
porn,
It's not just like
porn and vibrators
or things like,
it's like things that look and act
human
and how we're called to respond
(32:09):
to that is a huge counterfeit
to God's design.
I'm doing the Bible through the year
this year and Leviticus
was just like the past week and
these boundaries God has set
up for sex and
I'm thinking like my mind jumped to
those passages when you're talking
about like no
those things are not listed
specifically but
(32:31):
outside of God's plan was so clear
from animals to this to
that to relational stuff like,
oh, my goodness.
I could get stuck here for a while.
So I'll jump forward, but thank you
for the, just bring it up another
category to prayerfully
not go and hide from, but
be leading on the
home.
Well, no, it is a
(32:52):
modern form of bestiality,
because I see that saying,
having sexual contact
with any non-human body
is just, it's
a complete misuse of sex, whether
it's back then,
it was an animal,
or now when it's
technology designed to look like
(33:13):
a body, and all
of that is a misuse.
it's going to cause you know,
pain and regret and baggage, and
it's going to desensitize us.
And so
Yeah, and just beware,
dads, that that's
out there and that it's coming and
that our kids are gonna be growing
up or that's gonna be a real issue
(33:34):
and a real temptation, that
we need to give them some tools to
navigate because it's like, well, my
parents told me not to have sex with
anybody, but what could it hurt to
learn with this little tool over
here and...
we need to equip them for that.
Yeah, let's swing to the other
side of this conversation, which is
flourishing in God's plan.
Yeah, there we go.
So your gift that you
(33:56):
and your wife have on your website
of the free ebook,
Nine Days to Great Sex.
So I have not actually, I discovered
this just a few days ago in
preparing. My wife and I have gone
through, I think you recommend a
chapter a day to kind of unpack
and to have a lot of fun during this
experience, but it's
going after Some of the
baggage, right, some of the, there's
(34:17):
so many layers to a conversation
about having great
sex in a marriage.
And could you just give the flyover,
we're gonna link it for sure, for
all of our dads to go download
and dive in.
And then of course, all your books,
there's almost too many for me to
bring up in this conversation, but
we'll make sure to recommend and
link them.
Why did you release this
(34:37):
free ebook?
Well, we didn't want there to be
any excuse or barrier keeping
people from this message.
We really felt like this is a
message that we wanna get out there,
that sex is a gift.
God wants you to thrive in it in
marriage, but we have to do it God's
way to really thrive and how
to work through past baggage, how to
through our own insecurities,
(34:59):
the counterfeit messages we've been
bombarded with and
to thrive and marriage, to
be naked and unashamed the way God
intended us to be in marriage.
And to flourish, like you said, it's
the very, very first thing
that God
said to the very first couple, be
fruitful and multiply.
And the very first word he said, the
be fruitful, is the Hebrew word
(35:20):
parah, which really means
to flourish.
So essentially the very thing he
said to us is
flourish, thrive,
and he wants that
for you in your marriage and
not just to survive, but to really
thrive. So.
Free ebook can help, it's
daveandashley.com.
And I'm sure Jeff will have that
link in the show notes and
(35:41):
click on that, get the free
ebook.
But I hope that it
is an encouragement to you and
really helps you and your spouse
talk about sex with each other
because we've talked a lot about
talking about sex with our kids,
which is one conversation.
A whole different conversation is
in marriage, having the
courage and the vulnerability to
(36:01):
really talk about your sex
life. your desires,
your insecurities, all
of it.
And it takes
vulnerability and courage, but it'll
help you get to a new level in your
intimacy, both inside and outside
the bedroom.
Dave, I was gonna kinda thread back
to the power of words.
And this like, it does feel like
(36:23):
you're helping, you're giving the
gift of this ebook to guide.
men, the dads listening right now,
often it's the words, it's talking
about, it's expressing that I
struggle with.
So I'll be the first to say thank
you. And I want to
add more intentionality on that
front of words, conversation,
talk about versus just being,
(36:43):
rhythms or patterns of feeling stuck
in this area.
That will actually, I think there's
probably some link to flourishing
that gives us more courage to talk
to our kids and have those
conversations with our kids.
So it's probably all overlapping.
But do you have any last just any
last words any last thing you want
to share with our dad awesome
community?
Well, I want to applaud
you dads for,
(37:04):
hey, you've listened to the end,
way to go, way to finish strong.
And thank you for taking time
to invest in being a better dad,
which is what you're doing by
listening to this podcast.
I just think it is the
best thing that we as men can
focus on improving. We spend so much
time trying to improve our health or
our golf game or whatever it is.
(37:26):
And those things are all fine and
good, but.
But really, the things that are
gonna impact eternity and legacy, I
can't think of anything more
valuable than just improving his
dads. And it's something I wanna
keep getting better at every day.
And I appreciate you, Jeff, and what
you're doing to lead this community.
So just wanna affirm you
dads, because I know we can be so
hard on ourselves sometimes and
(37:46):
hear those negative soundtracks in
our mind, a fair place that we feel
like we're not measuring up.
But just know, like, you
are.
Just the fact that you're listening
to this now tells me a lot about
your character and your desire.
And so I just wanna affirm you
and cheer you on in that.
That's good, thank you.
Can you say a short prayer over all
of us dads?
Absolutely. Father, I lift up every
(38:08):
dad that's listening.
I pray for Jeff that you would
continue to bless him and his
precious four daughters and
his wife in this ministry
and continue to, Lord, just expand
the reach of the important message
that he's sharing here. And I pray
for every dad that's listening.
all over the world right now,
whenever and wherever they're
listening, I just believe they're
(38:29):
not listening by accident that
you've brought them to this moment
to encourage them, to equip them,
to remind them that you're with them
and for them in their fatherhood
journey.
And just help all of us as men,
God, to pass along generational
blessing instead of baggage to our
kids. Help us, Lord, to speak words
of life.
Help us Lord to receive the words of
(38:50):
live you have spoken over us in
your word. And, uh...
love our kids out of the overflow of
love in our heart for you.
We love you, Lord.
We thank you for the gift of
fatherhood and we thank you for
being the only perfect father and
for loving us so well.
In Jesus' name, amen.
(39:10):
Thank you so much for joining us for
episode 376
with Dave Willis, all the
conversation links, the links to
Dave's books, the other resources
that him and his wife have created.
They've got a free ebook, Nine Days
to Great Sex, and then
the parenting book about raising
boys who respect girls.
That's all gonna be linked at the
podcast page at dadawesome.org
(39:32):
slash podcast.
And then just look for the most
recent.
episode 376 guys thanks
for listening we talked about a lot
of topics I want to encourage you
let's be dads with a
bias towards action What
is it you heard today?
You can even skim back through the
show notes, the transcripts of our
key takeaways again, are at that
(39:52):
link I mentioned and in your podcast
player.
Is there something, is there one way
that you can take a bias towards
action, being a dad of action?
Dad awesome is not good intent.
It's dads who move towards action
and pursuing the hearts of
your family, your kids, adjusting
your priorities in alignment with
taking action.
So I wanna pray that there's one.
(40:13):
action point from after listening
today. Praying for you, cheering for
you. Have a great week, guys.
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