July 17, 2024 • 25 mins
Join best friends, Hannah and Karen, as they travel through the pages of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros, taking what they’ve learned from the second book in the Empyrean Series, Iron Flame, to re-read and re-experience the first.
Before taking flight into their deep dive, your fellow squad mates, Hannah and Karen, share their bookish journey into Fourth Wing and the romantasy genre. Discover the different perspectives they bring to the conversation, discuss the fascinating overlap between Taylor Swift’s music and the Empyrean Series, and get a sneak peek into what you can expect from season one of Dear Fantasy Reader.
*All episodes include spoilers for the entirety of Fourth Wing and Iron Flame*
0:00 Intro
01:03 Book Hangovers and Rereads
02:18 Exploring the Empyrean Series In Depth
03:20 Getting to Know Your Squad Mates
04:44 Our Bookish Journey to Fourth Wing & Romantasy
14:44 Different Reading Styles
15:00 Bringing Different Perspectives to the Podcast
17:51 Swiftie Signets- Taylor Swift & Fourth Wing
19:52 Which Quadrant We Would Join
22:42 What To Expect From Our Podcast
**Please note that ads may affect the timestamps by a few minutes**
Want more from Dear Fantasy Reader?
The DFRP chapters so far:
• Season 1: Fourth Wing Deep Dive Through the Lens of Iron Flame
• Season 2: Onyx Storm Prep
• Season 3: Onyx Storm Deep Dive
• Season 4: Dear Fantasy Author — our ongoing author interview series featuring your favorite romantasy writers!
• Follow us on Instagram @dearfantasyreaderpod to see who we’re interviewing next!
• Season 5: The Overflowing TBR —
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Dearest fantasy readers welcome,
welcome to the Dear Fantasy ReaderPodcast, where two best friends,
Hannah and Karen travel throughthe pages of our favorite romantasy
novels.
Join us as we take flight intothe world of the Empyrean series,
diving deep into the chapters,exploring characters, scenes,
(00:27):
theories, foreshadowing, and more,
taking what we've learnedfrom the second book,
Iron Flame to reread andreexperience the first.
With that content warningand spoiler alert,
we'll be covering anything and everythingEmpyrean series to this date and any
additional context thatRebecca Yarros has given us.
(00:47):
So if you haven't read both already,save this podcast, go do that,
and we'll be here waitingwhen you are done. Also,
due to the nature of these books,
this podcast is rated R in language andcontent. This episode should be safe,
but keep that in mind for futurereference. Jumping right in. I am so
excited for this podcastbecause I had the biggest
(01:09):
book hangover I've everexperienced from this series.
Yeah,
I could tell because I was gettingseveral mini novels texted to me every
single day, several times a day.Yeah,
I had a lot to say.
I had so many thoughts andtheories swirling in my mind,
(01:30):
and then I realized that the thirdbook didn't come out until January.
Like, how am I supposed to wait untilthen? As soon as I finished Iron Flame,
I knew I wanted to do a reread.I had not read these books since last
November, and I've read75 books in between.
So whenever you are texting me allof these theories and questions and
(01:51):
everything, I was just like, yeah,
I'm going to have to reread thesebecause I do not remember anything
except for the main ideas.Yeah. Well,
and so both Karen and Ihave done a second reread,
and so this will technically be our third,
but just getting both of us on the samepage so we know what questions we want
(02:13):
to ask, things like that, whichwe'll get to in our next episode,
our grounding episode.But that's what this podcast really is.
It's us exploring this series indepth as a whole re-experiencing
Fourth Wing. Now that we haveso much more context about
from Iron Flame as we preparefor the release of OnX Storm,
(02:33):
one point I really want to emphasize iswhat we really want out of this podcast
is to have a space where we can talkabout these incredible books in an
interactive way with all of you.Yes,
and I'm so excited because Hannah'sbrought up points that I have never even
thought of,
so I'm really excited how deepwe can dive into this with Iron
(02:55):
Flame in the grand scheme,
grand scheme with the knowledge we haveabout Iron Flame. Absolutely. Well,
I'm so excited to seeyour reactions to things,
and one thing I love aboutyou is how insightful you are.
So I'm really excited to see what youdo when you react to some of these
theories that I've kept secretfrom her and intentionally.
(03:17):
Ah,
I'm nervous. So now that you know a littlebit about the flight that we're about
to take off on together,
we'd like to take a moment for you allto get to know your fellow squad mates.
So Karen and I have been bestfriends for a few years now.
We met at a Taylor SwiftClub night in 2021?
(03:39):
Yeah, 2021. We stayed long distance,so I didn't live in the same state.
I just happened to be visitingwhen we met, so we're big swifties,
which we'll mention just, youknow, occasionally. Several times.
We actually bonded really quickly andwe listened to every Taylor Swift album
that came out together over FaceTimeand once on Zoom. Yep, sure did.
(04:03):
Yeah. So now I moved toFlorida to be closer to Karen,
and so we went from our hyperfixation of Taylor Swift and
are now bonding over ourhyper fixation of Fourth Wing,
and I can't wait to share all my otherhyper fixations with Hannah to drag
her into this reading rabbithole. Absolutely. She's already on me about ACOTAR,
(04:26):
and I'm like, yes, I amso down. Let's do this.
And then we're jumping straight intothat. I hyper-fixate hardcore, hence,
why were we a deep dive podcast.ACOTAR, throne of glass.
I know you're just going tobe just as obsessed. Yeah.
So actually on that note, Karen,how did you get into reading?
(04:47):
You know, it comes to me honestly.My mom was a reading teacher,
so I feel like I was justnaturally gravitating towards books my whole life and
my mom kept so many books in the houseat all times and took us to libraries and
everything. As soon as I picked upJunie B Jones, it was over for me.
Reading became my whole lifeand then it just orbited into a
(05:09):
new dimension. Whenever I readthe Twilight books, Twilight,
it got me good and then the Hunger
Games, it just grew the obsession further,
and I read every single fictionbook in my high school library
over the four years I was there.I love that so much.
(05:29):
So strangely enough,similar starting for me.
I loved to read. It startedwith Twilight series,
I saw my older cousin reading those. Amovie had just come out and I was like,
oh my God, obsessed.
And so that was my first full seriesand then I had found this book series in
(05:49):
my library because I was a volunteerlibrary assistant when I'd get to school
early in middle school.I love that. I know.
And I found this series calledThe Daughters of the Moon,
and it will probablyalways be my heart series.
It's been years since I've read it,but that is part of where I was,
this whole fantasygenre of I could Say Ya,
(06:12):
which I felt home in that itwas so much of an escapism.
And one thing about me you'll learn iswhen I like something, I don't just,
Karen knows this insaying to the listeners,
I don't just like things that like50%, I either I am just like, oh,
that's cute, that's nice.Or I'm fully obsessed.
(06:35):
So that turned into, it's true thatbranched out into the Hunger Games,
the Harry Potter series, which I did.
I will point out I read those before Ifeel like I could comprehend what the
storyline was. I was really youngand I haven't revisited them.
I will say that's the one thing thatI am not a hundred percent deep into,
but I have a love for it.
(06:55):
And then the selection seriescame along and I was like, okay,
I'm getting really close tofinding my genre and then I found
Red Queen. It's beenmy favorite for years,
but it's just missing moreof the romance element that
I crave.
It has that balance of the fantasypowers and magic kind of thing.
(07:17):
And so when I read Fourth Wing, alright,
we'll get to that. We'll get tothat. I want to know first, Karen,
how did you get into Fourth Wing?Oh my goodness.
I went with my friend.We were going birthday,
present shopping for one of our otherfriends and she was telling me that she
had told her about this book,so she wanted to buy it for her.
(07:38):
That book was Fourth Wing,and so I was just like,
I have never heard of this.
And I was kind of in the car just lookingat the summary and I was just like,
this seems pretty interesting.Maybe I'll read it.
And then she told me that Iron Flame wascoming out in just like a month or so.
I put it on the back burner of my mindand about two months later I read Fourth
(07:59):
Wing and Iron Flame in four days.
I am so grateful that you did
it put me into a huge fantasy kickand I also had a huge book Hangover
after reading this,
and then whenever I gave myselfabout a month of the Hangover,
I got into ACOTAR. You Next.Yeah,
(08:21):
it funnels you in really quickly.
I think everyone suggested I gostraight into ACOTAR after and I'm like,
I am not over obsessing with this one.I will get there, but I'm not done yet.
Yeah. So Hannah, how didyou get into Fourth Wing?
Yeah, yeah. Okay,
so Karen gets all the credit for thisbecause she was the first friend to
(08:41):
recommend this book to me and it was kindof like you actually never recommended
a book. So when you firstsaid it, I was like, oh, okay.
For her to think of me with that book.
And then another friend who you don'tknow messaged me shortly after that and
was like, random. Random also doesn'trecommend books to me like that.
(09:01):
They were like, you need to readFourth Wing. I thought, oh my gosh.
Then it happened with a thirdfriend. I was like, okay,
how many times do I need to sign for theuniverse that I need to read this book?
Yeah, no, Hannah, how long agodid I recommend this book to you?
I don't know the date, but it was acouple months. It did take me a bit.
(09:25):
It was December. I didn't realizeit was that long ago. You know what?
Alright, I'm going tojustify it for a little bit.
I know myself and I know that when Ifall in love and it was recommended three
times when I love a series,
it's all the way and it ended up beinglike that because I ended up staying
until up until 5:00 AM multiple daysand calling out of work so that I
(09:48):
could finish the series. Ihave to wait until I can,
I can be fully absorbed and itwasn't like the most ideal timing,
but it happened when ithappened for a reason.
What I found in this book was my genre
and I know it's like the ITgenre right now, romantasy,
but it's the IT genre.
(10:09):
It has people who resonate so deeply. Ido. Again, I love the Red Queen series.
It's not a romantasy. Andso when I was reading this,
and I want to also preface,
I didn't read anything about the bookbefore I jumped to page one. I love that.
I didn't know a single thing. Ididn't know we were in a war college.
I didn't know there were dragons.
I didn't know anythinguntil Violet told me,
(10:33):
which was really cool to experiencewhenever I recommended it.
I think I had asked you before if youwere a reader and I was kind of asking
what you liked and soyou did tell me fantasy.
So what specificallyabout fantasy draws you
to that genre? What do youlove most about a fantasy book?
(10:53):
That's a great question because it's kindof been hard for me to navigate that.
I love superpowers.
I don't think that's theappropriate wording for it,
but magic powers and so whenpeople would say fantasy before
it was like
you'd think dragons or differentkind of species and I love the
(11:14):
addition of that, but it's reallywhen the narrator has a power,
it feels like I then get toexperience having that power.
And I have waited to tell you thisstory specifically in case this,
because I used to play this gamewith my little brothers when I
was little. We made it up and wewould play outside a lot while I am
(11:38):
Gen Z.
I got right at the cusp of not havinginternet and not having a phone.
And so it forced us to be outsideplaying and we got creative and we
made up this game called the PowerGame and we Power Game would have this
intricate storyline of how we foundthese crystals. One day we were best
friends, we all found thesecrystals one day and mine was pink,
(12:00):
one brother was blue andthe other brother was red,
and the one with blue was my twin andthe one with the red ended up being evil
and we each got powers and we would actout the powers. I mean it was intricate.
Okay, so that is really where my love
of this fantasy,
(12:21):
it actually makes me sad to think about.
There was one day that it wasthe last time we ever played it,
so I know I, so
when I get to read these books,
it really is such a level ofnostalgia mixed with this.
I know I'm going to cry to your storybecause that's so sad to think about.
(12:45):
It is.
But it also I think reallyhelps me understand why I
resonate so much with these books.I just love,
I also have these dreams sometimes whereI'm flying, I can control my dreams.
It's very rare unfortunately,and those are my favorite.
And so it really is a chance when I'min these specific kind of fantasy books
(13:06):
where there are towers to go back to youand I have talked about the dream thing
because I am scared of heightsand so my dreams where I'm
flying are usually very scaryso I can control the dream to
make it me get to the ground safely.
And I like how you're just thekind of person that's like,
let's fly more literally in my dreamsI can put my hands like this if you're
(13:29):
watching on YouTube, sorry if you're not,
and then make myself Iron Manalmost off the ground and I'm always
yearning to do that and you're like,please just keep me on ground. I'm like,
um taller than 10 feetis a little too high for
me. I love that. So Karen,
what do you love most about fantasy booksspecifically? I too love the powers,
(13:52):
but my favorite part about the fantasybooks and a well-written fantasy book
because there are differences, right?
I just love the world building and Ithink it is so amazing when an author can
set up a whole new world andwith so much detail and have the
politics in it and you just understandand you feel like you're there
(14:12):
and you're just like, this is how it is.
This is the rules that have beenset up and this is the geography.
I love when a book has a map, lovewhen a book has a map. It's so fun.
I just love the world building andI love all the other details that
encompasses a fantasy genre,
but the world building isone of my favorite parts and some people think it's so
(14:34):
boring, it's the mostboring part of the book,
but I just think it helps you appreciateeverything else in the book when that
is set up. Well,
I actually love that so much and Ithink that what is really cool about our
podcast,
what I'm most excited about is that webring different things to the table even
though I had an analogy the otherday, we're opposite peas in a pod.
(14:58):
That's true. Yeah. Sowith you, like you say,
you're an avid reader and I wouldthink describing you is more in the
moment. Yeah, I'm definitely anavid reader. Obviously. I had read,
like I said, 75 books in betweenwhen I read Fourth Wing until now,
which is less than a year andI'm very in the moment and
(15:21):
since I read so much, sometimesI forget some of the details,
but I remember how a book makes me feeland that's one of the more important
things to me is how it made me feel.
It could be the best bookI've ever read in my life.
I know that by the Vibesand not so much the detail.
That's why I'm really excitedabout this podcast and why I really
(15:45):
enjoyed the Reread is because I honestlyfelt like I was reading it again for
the first time and I'm very excited tolearn all this insight you're going to
bring to me so I can justdive deeper in it. And again,
experience like I've never had before.
I love the way that you'veworded that I want to say.
I think that we really balance inthat you are so much more of a feel
(16:08):
through your way through the book,
whereas I definitely had more of thatwith this book than I had in others
before,
which really was the perfect balanceand I think that's going to translate
really well for us analyzingthis book both from a
perspective of what were we feeling inthese moments the first time versus this
now that we know so much moreand that will bridge into what
(16:33):
all do we know now that wedidn't know The first read,
I tend to be have an analytical mind.
I am a sociologist, so Ialso love the world building,
especially involving politics andcontrasting values of societies,
especially in Fourth Wing between Navarreand Tyrrendor. It's fascinating to me,
(16:53):
and I'm a data analyst specifically,
so this sort of deep dive investigativeanalysis with the theories and the
Easter eggs is right up myalley, which I think is a really,
really nice balance to also being presentin the moment with the feelings of the
book. Yeah, you'redefinitely going to ground me
(17:15):
and I feel that way about you.
I'm over here floating off intheory world and you're like, Hey,
let's look at these fourchapters. Oh my gosh,
how fun was this book? And you'relike, well, what if this happened.
With that,
we are going to try our best to haveall of our Fourth Wing discussion on the
podcast so you get real timereactions. As Karen mentioned,
(17:37):
she may not have heard these theoriesbefore. I have kept some from her.
I'm so nervous or she thinks ofsomething I hadn't thought of. So that
to the best of our ability, it's allgoing to happen right here. Also,
as we mentioned,
we are both big time Swiftiesand if you don't know
(17:58):
Rebecca Yaros is also ahuge swifty and Fourth Wing,
Iron Flame and Onyx Storm wereinspired by several Taylor Swift songs,
specifically Xaden andViolet's relationship,
which we'll be discussing indepth in future episodes. Yes.
So we're actually going to beincorporating these things throughout our
chapters-by-chapters episodes to discusswhere we think these songs that she
(18:22):
said she uses inspirationplayed a role in the books.
So if you don't know what it means whenRebecca Yaros says the Onyx Storm is
reputation coded or that thetwo songs that best represent it
are who's afraid of Little OldMe, and so it goes, do not worry.
We will use our swiftie signetsto translate this information. Oh
(18:43):
my gosh. Hearing that, it makes meso much more excited for Onyx Storm.
I'm already so excited,
but knowing my favorite song fromtortured poets is going to be one of
the inspos for Onyx Storm. Sold.I was already sold, but sold.
I think it was actually in Fourth Wingand I read it after Tortured Poets came
out. So it was,
(19:04):
I literally thought this book sounds likeWho's Afraid a little of me as a book.
And so for her to have said that itwas like my two worlds collided and you
mentioned this to me that Karen,
you never told me that these bookswere inspired by Taylor Swift songs,
but whenever I told you about thesebooks, I didn't know that yet.
(19:25):
I didn't find that out until I startedfollowing Rebecca Yaros on Instagram,
which was like February Ithink, and so I had no idea.
That just was a happy coincidence and avery exciting one for us in this moment.
Yes, I've literally, honestly, that'sbeen one of my big selling points.
I've reached out to so many ofmy Swiftie friends and been like,
(19:46):
you have to read this because,
so Hannah, the most importantquestion of the day,
what quadrant would you be in ifyou attended Basgiath War College?
Karen,
I am delusional enough andconfident enough to say that I would
be a dragon rider. Your Leo is showing.
(20:13):
That's the most Leo answer Ithink I've ever heard. Yeah,
I very much so. We'll talk aboutthis later more in future episodes,
but I very much so resonatewith the Violet being
physically, I don't thinkthe word is weak for,
but strength in other areas. I verymuch so resonate with that. I would not
(20:36):
make it maybe as far as I'd like to,
but again, that was likehaving the superpower,
the bond with the dragon. Are you kidding?
To be able to bond and speakinto each other's mindset.
That's so fascinating to me.
There's no way I would be complacentwith being a scribe because that would be
(20:58):
my backup. I feel very much so.
I'm also a Gemini rising,
so I definitely could see myselfas scribe, mind, rider, heart.
I totally understand that.We know this, you know this,
listeners probably don't know this yet,
but I am such a scribethat it's not even funny.
(21:21):
This girl over here, thisgirl, I'm pointing at myself.
For those of you who are notwatching and who are listening,
I am such a big reader. I love history.
My favorite part of fantasy Isaid was the world building.
That's the most scribe answerI've ever heard in my life.
And interestingly enough, I'man Aries Sun, Aries rising,
(21:42):
so I missed that with the boldness and
braveness of a rider,
even though Xaden Xaden is an Aries,
and I wish I could be like him,
but I don't think Irealized he was an Aries.
He's an Aries Violet's a cancerand I'm the first day of Leo,
(22:03):
so I'm right there atbeing cancer. On that,
I resonate with Leo hardcore Leo'ssun and moon over here. You are such a
Leo. Such a Leo.
But my scribeness probably comesfrom my Scorpio moon because
got all those secrets anddeep in my brain and yeah,
(22:23):
I dunno. Very Xaden of you too. Oh yeah,
the secrets. Maybe I am a Rider. Well,
we're going to call you ourpersonal scribe informant,
much like Jesenia is for therevolution. So my girl. Yep,
yep. Speaking of,
let's get into talking about how we'regoing to be structuring our episodes.
(22:46):
So we'll be breaking up the book intochapter by chapter format. For example,
our first episode, we'll coverchapters one through four and so on.
Yes. So before we do that,
we are actually going to start with anepisode where we practice our grounding
techniques and lay thegroundwork refreshing on all of the new insights we got
(23:07):
from Iron Flame becauseit's so much so much
and many of the questions that we'll beasking as we dissect our reread. That
will release next Tuesday. Andthen for our general episodes,
we'll begin with a scribesummary report by yours, truly.
A quick recap of the chapterswe'll explore in that episode.
And then we are going to cross theparapet into the rider's quadrant
(23:32):
where we dive deep into key moments,
reflecting on our first experience readingFourth Wing and contrasting it to our
reread using the new context andinsights we gained from Iron Flame.
We'll incorporate our own interpretations,insights, predictions and analysis,
pointing out moments offoreshadowing, one of my favorite,
favorite things about the series andthings we now realize in hindsight.
(23:55):
So we'll be discussing popular theoriesand once we come up with on our own,
also the researcher in mehas collected so much info
from Rebecca Yaris, interviews,panels, social media,
you name it.
So we will be sprinkling in thoseinsights throughout the episodes as they
apply. Girl is putting hermaster's degree to work.
(24:19):
It's so great. You'redoing the work for us.
All the info is going to be righthere. If we're ever missing anything,
please let us know. Iwant to know it all. Yeah,
I've seen people come up withamazing theories and everything,
and I'm just like, how does yourbrain work like that? You do that too.
It's impressive. Well, we're goingto be bouncing 'em off of yours.
(24:39):
So also keep in mind,this is our first podcast,
so it is a learning process, but wereally want to make this as interesting,
engaging, and thorough as possible.So like Hannah just said, please,
if you have any suggestions or if weget something wrong because we are human
and I expect that we will end up doingthat at some point, just let us know.
(25:01):
And we mentioned this before,
but we really want it to be an interactiveconversation between us and you all
if you would like to. So wewelcome any and all thoughts.
Feel free to leave us comments or emailus with any of your kind thoughts,
opinions, and theories, and we'll makesure to credit anyone who sends them in.
Thank you all so much for listening.
Our episodes will drop weekly on Tuesdays,
(25:23):
anywhere you listen topodcasts as well as YouTube.
Look out for next week'sgroundwork episode and in the meantime subscribe to our
YouTube and follow us overon TikTok and Instagram.
We cannot wait to take this journey withyou all into the world of the Empyrean.
Dearest fantasy readers welcome,
welcome to the Dear Fantasy ReaderPodcast, where two best friends,
Hannah and Karen travel throughthe pages of our favorite romantasy
novels.
Join us as we take flight intothe world of the Empyrean series,
diving deep into the chapters,exploring characters, scenes,
(00:27):
theories, foreshadowing, and more,
taking what we've learnedfrom the second book,
Iron Flame to reread andreexperience the first.
With that content warningand spoiler alert,
we'll be covering anything and everythingEmpyrean series to this date and any
additional context thatRebecca Yarros has given us.
(00:47):
So if you haven't read both already,save this podcast, go do that,
and we'll be here waitingwhen you are done. Also,
due to the nature of these books,
this podcast is rated R in language andcontent. This episode should be safe,
but keep that in mind for futurereference. Jumping right in. I am so
excited for this podcastbecause I had the biggest
(01:09):
book hangover I've everexperienced from this series.
Yeah,
I could tell because I was gettingseveral mini novels texted to me every
single day, several times a day.Yeah,
I had a lot to say.
I had so many thoughts andtheories swirling in my mind,
(01:30):
and then I realized that the thirdbook didn't come out until January.
Like, how am I supposed to wait untilthen? As soon as I finished Iron Flame,
I knew I wanted to do a reread.I had not read these books since last
November, and I've read75 books in between.
So whenever you are texting me allof these theories and questions and
(01:51):
everything, I was just like, yeah,
I'm going to have to reread thesebecause I do not remember anything
except for the main ideas.Yeah. Well,
and so both Karen and Ihave done a second reread,
and so this will technically be our third,
but just getting both of us on the samepage so we know what questions we want
(02:13):
to ask, things like that, whichwe'll get to in our next episode,
our grounding episode.But that's what this podcast really is.
It's us exploring this series indepth as a whole re-experiencing
Fourth Wing. Now that we haveso much more context about
from Iron Flame as we preparefor the release of OnX Storm,
(02:33):
one point I really want to emphasize iswhat we really want out of this podcast
is to have a space where we can talkabout these incredible books in an
interactive way with all of you.Yes,
and I'm so excited because Hannah'sbrought up points that I have never even
thought of,
so I'm really excited how deepwe can dive into this with Iron
(02:55):
Flame in the grand scheme,
grand scheme with the knowledge we haveabout Iron Flame. Absolutely. Well,
I'm so excited to seeyour reactions to things,
and one thing I love aboutyou is how insightful you are.
So I'm really excited to see what youdo when you react to some of these
theories that I've kept secretfrom her and intentionally.
(03:17):
Ah,
I'm nervous. So now that you know a littlebit about the flight that we're about
to take off on together,
we'd like to take a moment for you allto get to know your fellow squad mates.
So Karen and I have been bestfriends for a few years now.
We met at a Taylor SwiftClub night in 2021?
(03:39):
Yeah, 2021. We stayed long distance,so I didn't live in the same state.
I just happened to be visitingwhen we met, so we're big swifties,
which we'll mention just, youknow, occasionally. Several times.
We actually bonded really quickly andwe listened to every Taylor Swift album
that came out together over FaceTimeand once on Zoom. Yep, sure did.
(04:03):
Yeah. So now I moved toFlorida to be closer to Karen,
and so we went from our hyperfixation of Taylor Swift and
are now bonding over ourhyper fixation of Fourth Wing,
and I can't wait to share all my otherhyper fixations with Hannah to drag
her into this reading rabbithole. Absolutely. She's already on me about ACOTAR,
(04:26):
and I'm like, yes, I amso down. Let's do this.
And then we're jumping straight intothat. I hyper-fixate hardcore, hence,
why were we a deep dive podcast.ACOTAR, throne of glass.
I know you're just going tobe just as obsessed. Yeah.
So actually on that note, Karen,how did you get into reading?
(04:47):
You know, it comes to me honestly.My mom was a reading teacher,
so I feel like I was justnaturally gravitating towards books my whole life and
my mom kept so many books in the houseat all times and took us to libraries and
everything. As soon as I picked upJunie B Jones, it was over for me.
Reading became my whole lifeand then it just orbited into a
(05:09):
new dimension. Whenever I readthe Twilight books, Twilight,
it got me good and then the Hunger
Games, it just grew the obsession further,
and I read every single fictionbook in my high school library
over the four years I was there.I love that so much.
(05:29):
So strangely enough,similar starting for me.
I loved to read. It startedwith Twilight series,
I saw my older cousin reading those. Amovie had just come out and I was like,
oh my God, obsessed.
And so that was my first full seriesand then I had found this book series in
(05:49):
my library because I was a volunteerlibrary assistant when I'd get to school
early in middle school.I love that. I know.
And I found this series calledThe Daughters of the Moon,
and it will probablyalways be my heart series.
It's been years since I've read it,but that is part of where I was,
this whole fantasygenre of I could Say Ya,
(06:12):
which I felt home in that itwas so much of an escapism.
And one thing about me you'll learn iswhen I like something, I don't just,
Karen knows this insaying to the listeners,
I don't just like things that like50%, I either I am just like, oh,
that's cute, that's nice.Or I'm fully obsessed.
(06:35):
So that turned into, it's true thatbranched out into the Hunger Games,
the Harry Potter series, which I did.
I will point out I read those before Ifeel like I could comprehend what the
storyline was. I was really youngand I haven't revisited them.
I will say that's the one thing thatI am not a hundred percent deep into,
but I have a love for it.
(06:55):
And then the selection seriescame along and I was like, okay,
I'm getting really close tofinding my genre and then I found
Red Queen. It's beenmy favorite for years,
but it's just missing moreof the romance element that
I crave.
It has that balance of the fantasypowers and magic kind of thing.
(07:17):
And so when I read Fourth Wing, alright,
we'll get to that. We'll get tothat. I want to know first, Karen,
how did you get into Fourth Wing?Oh my goodness.
I went with my friend.We were going birthday,
present shopping for one of our otherfriends and she was telling me that she
had told her about this book,so she wanted to buy it for her.
(07:38):
That book was Fourth Wing,and so I was just like,
I have never heard of this.
And I was kind of in the car just lookingat the summary and I was just like,
this seems pretty interesting.Maybe I'll read it.
And then she told me that Iron Flame wascoming out in just like a month or so.
I put it on the back burner of my mindand about two months later I read Fourth
(07:59):
Wing and Iron Flame in four days.
I am so grateful that you did
it put me into a huge fantasy kickand I also had a huge book Hangover
after reading this,
and then whenever I gave myselfabout a month of the Hangover,
I got into ACOTAR. You Next.Yeah,
(08:21):
it funnels you in really quickly.
I think everyone suggested I gostraight into ACOTAR after and I'm like,
I am not over obsessing with this one.I will get there, but I'm not done yet.
Yeah. So Hannah, how didyou get into Fourth Wing?
Yeah, yeah. Okay,
so Karen gets all the credit for thisbecause she was the first friend to
(08:41):
recommend this book to me and it was kindof like you actually never recommended
a book. So when you firstsaid it, I was like, oh, okay.
For her to think of me with that book.
And then another friend who you don'tknow messaged me shortly after that and
was like, random. Random also doesn'trecommend books to me like that.
(09:01):
They were like, you need to readFourth Wing. I thought, oh my gosh.
Then it happened with a thirdfriend. I was like, okay,
how many times do I need to sign for theuniverse that I need to read this book?
Yeah, no, Hannah, how long agodid I recommend this book to you?
I don't know the date, but it was acouple months. It did take me a bit.
(09:25):
It was December. I didn't realizeit was that long ago. You know what?
Alright, I'm going tojustify it for a little bit.
I know myself and I know that when Ifall in love and it was recommended three
times when I love a series,
it's all the way and it ended up beinglike that because I ended up staying
until up until 5:00 AM multiple daysand calling out of work so that I
(09:48):
could finish the series. Ihave to wait until I can,
I can be fully absorbed and itwasn't like the most ideal timing,
but it happened when ithappened for a reason.
What I found in this book was my genre
and I know it's like the ITgenre right now, romantasy,
but it's the IT genre.
(10:09):
It has people who resonate so deeply. Ido. Again, I love the Red Queen series.
It's not a romantasy. Andso when I was reading this,
and I want to also preface,
I didn't read anything about the bookbefore I jumped to page one. I love that.
I didn't know a single thing. Ididn't know we were in a war college.
I didn't know there were dragons.
I didn't know anythinguntil Violet told me,
(10:33):
which was really cool to experiencewhenever I recommended it.
I think I had asked you before if youwere a reader and I was kind of asking
what you liked and soyou did tell me fantasy.
So what specificallyabout fantasy draws you
to that genre? What do youlove most about a fantasy book?
(10:53):
That's a great question because it's kindof been hard for me to navigate that.
I love superpowers.
I don't think that's theappropriate wording for it,
but magic powers and so whenpeople would say fantasy before
it was like
you'd think dragons or differentkind of species and I love the
(11:14):
addition of that, but it's reallywhen the narrator has a power,
it feels like I then get toexperience having that power.
And I have waited to tell you thisstory specifically in case this,
because I used to play this gamewith my little brothers when I
was little. We made it up and wewould play outside a lot while I am
(11:38):
Gen Z.
I got right at the cusp of not havinginternet and not having a phone.
And so it forced us to be outsideplaying and we got creative and we
made up this game called the PowerGame and we Power Game would have this
intricate storyline of how we foundthese crystals. One day we were best
friends, we all found thesecrystals one day and mine was pink,
(12:00):
one brother was blue andthe other brother was red,
and the one with blue was my twin andthe one with the red ended up being evil
and we each got powers and we would actout the powers. I mean it was intricate.
Okay, so that is really where my love
of this fantasy,
(12:21):
it actually makes me sad to think about.
There was one day that it wasthe last time we ever played it,
so I know I, so
when I get to read these books,
it really is such a level ofnostalgia mixed with this.
I know I'm going to cry to your storybecause that's so sad to think about.
(12:45):
It is.
But it also I think reallyhelps me understand why I
resonate so much with these books.I just love,
I also have these dreams sometimes whereI'm flying, I can control my dreams.
It's very rare unfortunately,and those are my favorite.
And so it really is a chance when I'min these specific kind of fantasy books
(13:06):
where there are towers to go back to youand I have talked about the dream thing
because I am scared of heightsand so my dreams where I'm
flying are usually very scaryso I can control the dream to
make it me get to the ground safely.
And I like how you're just thekind of person that's like,
let's fly more literally in my dreamsI can put my hands like this if you're
(13:29):
watching on YouTube, sorry if you're not,
and then make myself Iron Manalmost off the ground and I'm always
yearning to do that and you're like,please just keep me on ground. I'm like,
um taller than 10 feetis a little too high for
me. I love that. So Karen,
what do you love most about fantasy booksspecifically? I too love the powers,
(13:52):
but my favorite part about the fantasybooks and a well-written fantasy book
because there are differences, right?
I just love the world building and Ithink it is so amazing when an author can
set up a whole new world andwith so much detail and have the
politics in it and you just understandand you feel like you're there
(14:12):
and you're just like, this is how it is.
This is the rules that have beenset up and this is the geography.
I love when a book has a map, lovewhen a book has a map. It's so fun.
I just love the world building andI love all the other details that
encompasses a fantasy genre,
but the world building isone of my favorite parts and some people think it's so
(14:34):
boring, it's the mostboring part of the book,
but I just think it helps you appreciateeverything else in the book when that
is set up. Well,
I actually love that so much and Ithink that what is really cool about our
podcast,
what I'm most excited about is that webring different things to the table even
though I had an analogy the otherday, we're opposite peas in a pod.
(14:58):
That's true. Yeah. Sowith you, like you say,
you're an avid reader and I wouldthink describing you is more in the
moment. Yeah, I'm definitely anavid reader. Obviously. I had read,
like I said, 75 books in betweenwhen I read Fourth Wing until now,
which is less than a year andI'm very in the moment and
(15:21):
since I read so much, sometimesI forget some of the details,
but I remember how a book makes me feeland that's one of the more important
things to me is how it made me feel.
It could be the best bookI've ever read in my life.
I know that by the Vibesand not so much the detail.
That's why I'm really excitedabout this podcast and why I really
(15:45):
enjoyed the Reread is because I honestlyfelt like I was reading it again for
the first time and I'm very excited tolearn all this insight you're going to
bring to me so I can justdive deeper in it. And again,
experience like I've never had before.
I love the way that you'veworded that I want to say.
I think that we really balance inthat you are so much more of a feel
(16:08):
through your way through the book,
whereas I definitely had more of thatwith this book than I had in others
before,
which really was the perfect balanceand I think that's going to translate
really well for us analyzingthis book both from a
perspective of what were we feeling inthese moments the first time versus this
now that we know so much moreand that will bridge into what
(16:33):
all do we know now that wedidn't know The first read,
I tend to be have an analytical mind.
I am a sociologist, so Ialso love the world building,
especially involving politics andcontrasting values of societies,
especially in Fourth Wing between Navarreand Tyrrendor. It's fascinating to me,
(16:53):
and I'm a data analyst specifically,
so this sort of deep dive investigativeanalysis with the theories and the
Easter eggs is right up myalley, which I think is a really,
really nice balance to also being presentin the moment with the feelings of the
book. Yeah, you'redefinitely going to ground me
(17:15):
and I feel that way about you.
I'm over here floating off intheory world and you're like, Hey,
let's look at these fourchapters. Oh my gosh,
how fun was this book? And you'relike, well, what if this happened.
With that,
we are going to try our best to haveall of our Fourth Wing discussion on the
podcast so you get real timereactions. As Karen mentioned,
(17:37):
she may not have heard these theoriesbefore. I have kept some from her.
I'm so nervous or she thinks ofsomething I hadn't thought of. So that
to the best of our ability, it's allgoing to happen right here. Also,
as we mentioned,
we are both big time Swiftiesand if you don't know
(17:58):
Rebecca Yaros is also ahuge swifty and Fourth Wing,
Iron Flame and Onyx Storm wereinspired by several Taylor Swift songs,
specifically Xaden andViolet's relationship,
which we'll be discussing indepth in future episodes. Yes.
So we're actually going to beincorporating these things throughout our
chapters-by-chapters episodes to discusswhere we think these songs that she
(18:22):
said she uses inspirationplayed a role in the books.
So if you don't know what it means whenRebecca Yaros says the Onyx Storm is
reputation coded or that thetwo songs that best represent it
are who's afraid of Little OldMe, and so it goes, do not worry.
We will use our swiftie signetsto translate this information. Oh
(18:43):
my gosh. Hearing that, it makes meso much more excited for Onyx Storm.
I'm already so excited,
but knowing my favorite song fromtortured poets is going to be one of
the inspos for Onyx Storm. Sold.I was already sold, but sold.
I think it was actually in Fourth Wingand I read it after Tortured Poets came
out. So it was,
(19:04):
I literally thought this book sounds likeWho's Afraid a little of me as a book.
And so for her to have said that itwas like my two worlds collided and you
mentioned this to me that Karen,
you never told me that these bookswere inspired by Taylor Swift songs,
but whenever I told you about thesebooks, I didn't know that yet.
(19:25):
I didn't find that out until I startedfollowing Rebecca Yaros on Instagram,
which was like February Ithink, and so I had no idea.
That just was a happy coincidence and avery exciting one for us in this moment.
Yes, I've literally, honestly, that'sbeen one of my big selling points.
I've reached out to so many ofmy Swiftie friends and been like,
(19:46):
you have to read this because,
so Hannah, the most importantquestion of the day,
what quadrant would you be in ifyou attended Basgiath War College?
Karen,
I am delusional enough andconfident enough to say that I would
be a dragon rider. Your Leo is showing.
(20:13):
That's the most Leo answer Ithink I've ever heard. Yeah,
I very much so. We'll talk aboutthis later more in future episodes,
but I very much so resonatewith the Violet being
physically, I don't thinkthe word is weak for,
but strength in other areas. I verymuch so resonate with that. I would not
(20:36):
make it maybe as far as I'd like to,
but again, that was likehaving the superpower,
the bond with the dragon. Are you kidding?
To be able to bond and speakinto each other's mindset.
That's so fascinating to me.
There's no way I would be complacentwith being a scribe because that would be
(20:58):
my backup. I feel very much so.
I'm also a Gemini rising,
so I definitely could see myselfas scribe, mind, rider, heart.
I totally understand that.We know this, you know this,
listeners probably don't know this yet,
but I am such a scribethat it's not even funny.
(21:21):
This girl over here, thisgirl, I'm pointing at myself.
For those of you who are notwatching and who are listening,
I am such a big reader. I love history.
My favorite part of fantasy Isaid was the world building.
That's the most scribe answerI've ever heard in my life.
And interestingly enough, I'man Aries Sun, Aries rising,
(21:42):
so I missed that with the boldness and
braveness of a rider,
even though Xaden Xaden is an Aries,
and I wish I could be like him,
but I don't think Irealized he was an Aries.
He's an Aries Violet's a cancerand I'm the first day of Leo,
(22:03):
so I'm right there atbeing cancer. On that,
I resonate with Leo hardcore Leo'ssun and moon over here. You are such a
Leo. Such a Leo.
But my scribeness probably comesfrom my Scorpio moon because
got all those secrets anddeep in my brain and yeah,
(22:23):
I dunno. Very Xaden of you too. Oh yeah,
the secrets. Maybe I am a Rider. Well,
we're going to call you ourpersonal scribe informant,
much like Jesenia is for therevolution. So my girl. Yep,
yep. Speaking of,
let's get into talking about how we'regoing to be structuring our episodes.
(22:46):
So we'll be breaking up the book intochapter by chapter format. For example,
our first episode, we'll coverchapters one through four and so on.
Yes. So before we do that,
we are actually going to start with anepisode where we practice our grounding
techniques and lay thegroundwork refreshing on all of the new insights we got
(23:07):
from Iron Flame becauseit's so much so much
and many of the questions that we'll beasking as we dissect our reread. That
will release next Tuesday. Andthen for our general episodes,
we'll begin with a scribesummary report by yours, truly.
A quick recap of the chapterswe'll explore in that episode.
And then we are going to cross theparapet into the rider's quadrant
(23:32):
where we dive deep into key moments,
reflecting on our first experience readingFourth Wing and contrasting it to our
reread using the new context andinsights we gained from Iron Flame.
We'll incorporate our own interpretations,insights, predictions and analysis,
pointing out moments offoreshadowing, one of my favorite,
favorite things about the series andthings we now realize in hindsight.
(23:55):
So we'll be discussing popular theoriesand once we come up with on our own,
also the researcher in mehas collected so much info
from Rebecca Yaris, interviews,panels, social media,
you name it.
So we will be sprinkling in thoseinsights throughout the episodes as they
apply. Girl is putting hermaster's degree to work.
(24:19):
It's so great. You'redoing the work for us.
All the info is going to be righthere. If we're ever missing anything,
please let us know. Iwant to know it all. Yeah,
I've seen people come up withamazing theories and everything,
and I'm just like, how does yourbrain work like that? You do that too.
It's impressive. Well, we're goingto be bouncing 'em off of yours.
(24:39):
So also keep in mind,this is our first podcast,
so it is a learning process, but wereally want to make this as interesting,
engaging, and thorough as possible.So like Hannah just said, please,
if you have any suggestions or if weget something wrong because we are human
and I expect that we will end up doingthat at some point, just let us know.
(25:01):
And we mentioned this before,
but we really want it to be an interactiveconversation between us and you all
if you would like to. So wewelcome any and all thoughts.
Feel free to leave us comments or emailus with any of your kind thoughts,
opinions, and theories, and we'll makesure to credit anyone who sends them in.
Thank you all so much for listening.
Our episodes will drop weekly on Tuesdays,
(25:23):
anywhere you listen topodcasts as well as YouTube.
Look out for next week'sgroundwork episode and in the meantime subscribe to our
YouTube and follow us overon TikTok and Instagram.
We cannot wait to take this journey withyou all into the world of the Empyrean.
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