Your fellow squad mates, Hannah and Karen, lay the groundwork for their in-depth exploration of the first book in the Empyrean series, Fourth Wing. They discuss their plans for analyzing it through the lens of the second book, Iron Flame. Discover what makes a reread of Fourth Wing an entirely different experience, including foreshadowing and Easter eggs, newly revealed signet abilities, and fresh insights from Rebecca Yarros' social media and interviews.
Hannah and Karen also share the format for the upcoming chapter-by-chapter episodes and outline the key questions they will be asking as they reread and re-experience Fourth Wing with you!
*All episodes include spoilers for the entirety of Fourth Wing and Iron Flame*
** Please note that the audio issue in this episode has been fixed for all future episodes **
00:00 Intro
01:22 Laying the Groundwork for Analyzing Fourth Wing with Iron Flame
06:12 Overarching Questions & Significant Signets
16:43 The Importance of Epigraphs
20:04 Major Plot Changes
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Dearest fantasy readers, welcome, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader podcast where twobest friends, Hannah and Karen, travel through the pages of our favorite romantasy novels.
Join us as we take flight into the world of the Empyrean series, diving deep into thechapters, exploring characters, scenes, theories, foreshadowing, and more, taking what
(00:27):
we've learned from the second book, Iron Flame, to reread and re -experience the first.
With that, content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everythingEmpyrean series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarros has given us.
So if you haven't already read both books, save this podcast, go do that and we'll bewaiting here when you are done.
(00:50):
Also, due to the nature of these books, as you are all too familiar with if you have readthese books, this podcast is rated R in content and in language.
As Rebecca Yarros says,
Readers who may be sensitive to these elements take note and prepare to enter Basgiath WarCollege.
As we have all learned, before Riders can master their signets they have to learn toground.
(01:17):
And that is what this episode is all about.
Yes, we are laying the groundwork before we dive deep into the chapters of Fourth Wing inthese upcoming episodes.
Here we'll be discussing how we are going to analyze Fourth Wing through the lens of IronFlame.
what we learned in Iron flame that changes how we experience fourth wing and the questionsthat we'll be asking along the way.
(01:41):
Hannah, I did not realize how great Rebecca Yaros is at foreshadowing on my first read.
I had no idea.
And she throws in so many Easter eggs in there.
And that makes sense.
She is a Swiftie.
That's actually one of my favorite things about the series as a whole.
I don't know if you know this, but Rebecca Yarros said that she had already had theentirety of the series plotted out before she even started writing Fourth Wing Did you
(02:09):
know that?
I had no idea about that.
That's insane!
Yes, so initially it was supposed to be only three books, but she had the plot points inmind for the story she was going to tell throughout.
Then in writing Iron Flames, she...
changed it to five and realized it needed to be longer, which we'll get to later in otherepisodes.
But the fact that she knows everything about how it ends and how we get there, she gets tosprinkle things throughout the entire story that like clue us in, dropping little hints.
(02:41):
What blows my mind the most is that she recently said, quote, there are tons of thingsthat I lay into the first book that don't come into fruition in the second book.
But are coming to pass in other books that I won't point out because that would becheating Chills my gosh, that's so exciting.
(03:03):
my gosh.
It's so cool I mean this means that there are Easter eggs sprinkled all throughout bothfourth wing and iron flame that we don't even understand yet Which we kind of got that
hint through fourth wing, right?
There's things that we picked up on which we'll be exploring which is the whole point ofthis podcast Picking up on those things.
We missed the first time
as we reread Fourth Wing, but we'll also be picking up on things that maybe she sprinkledin that we don't have answers to.
(03:31):
Wow, I'm so excited.
I cannot wait to read Onyx Storm.
Can you imagine after we read Onyx Storm, if you go back and reread Fourth Wing, we'regoing to be like, how did I miss this?
That is what I love about
There's an experience you have when you first read Fourth Wing.
There's an experience you have when you first read Iron Flame.
(03:52):
And with this series, you get to reread and it's a whole new experience because now youknow things that you didn't know before.
And so it really prolongs the experience of being in the Empyrean world.
And in our case, we're prolonging it to set up just in time for Onyx Storm to release.
(04:14):
we don't have to just like, well, we are, we still are in our book hangover phase, butwe're basically like, is it remedying it in the meantime?
Like, that the way to say it?
For sure, we are staying in this world as long as possible so we don't get sad and have towait.
(04:35):
Exactly!
6 months for a Onyx Storm.
I love that you get me.
I get you.
So let's talk about what is so significant about Iron Flame that makes rereading FourthWing a whole new experience.
To really get to the elephant in the room, we know Signets that we did not know before.
(04:58):
They Xaden So true.
And we know Brennan.
We know that he's actually alive.
We have more and different context about Violet's mom.
And that she made a deal with Xaden to keep Violet alive.
We also learned that who we were introduced as the bad guys were not actually the badguys.
(05:21):
Yeah.
With that, we've also gotten to experience the side of the revolution.
What is really going on in Poromiel
with the Gryphon Flyers and then the Alliance Xaden severed just before the start offourth wing.
We also learned more about Andarna.
and the fact that Andarna had chosen Violet from the start.
(05:42):
So it wasn't she didn't make that decision in the clearing that day.
She knew going into threshing.
So we'll get to that more at that chapter section.
But mind blowing.
We also know more about how Venin work
Mm -hmm.
so much more and still so much more to know so many theories attached to that We will alsobe looking at all of the Easter eggs in the epigraphs Which we'll get to explaining more
(06:10):
about that in just a moment But first let's walk through all of the questions.
We will be asking ourselves throughout this reread
Now, keep in mind, we'll be adding more as we go.
And if you have any you'd like for us to include, please, please shoot us an email orcomment below if you're on YouTube.
We would love to include them.
The first question that we all have is when was Xaden using his signets, plural, becausehe has two of them specifically on Violet.
(06:43):
So we'll be looking at moments of
scalp tickling and analyzing what we think Xaden is looking for in those moments.
What intention, what is it tied to?
And before we get into other questions about his signet, Karen, did you guess that Xadenwas some sort of inntinnsic or were you surprised by that in Iron Flame?
Okay, so I thought, I didn't know exactly what it was, right?
(07:08):
Like I didn't know the word for it or if he could have the ability to read all minds,
I thought that there was some chance that he could read Violet's mind.
Just because she had said several times, I didn't know I said that out loud.
She was like thinking that.
And so he kind of slipped with that, right?
Like he could read her thoughts.
(07:31):
Yeah, so I was not sure if it was just a connection that they had or if he was had fullyhad the ability to read minds.
Yeah.
Did you think that?
Like I feel like in retrospect,
I can't say I did.
I noticed those moments and really I chalked it up.
I chalked the moments of the speaking into her mind and not being like, she didn't say itout loud as either Violet is really just down bad for this man.
(07:59):
But then I was like, but that would be an editing and we would know that.
I, you
But then I thought, maybe they actually can get to the point where they read each other's.
Like, I thought it might be a bond thing.
To be fair, though, I went straight into Iron flame from Fourth wing.
Like, I can go back and notice those in detail before getting the context that Iron flameprovided.
(08:19):
And when I did catch the scalp -prickling part, I chalked it up to her having strongsenses because she's very intuitive.
and just describing her attraction for him.
So when I found out about it, I like, I definitely like found out when Violet found outand I loved having that experience of, I kind of feel like this is betrayal, but I also,
(08:44):
this is fucking cool.
And that's a good point about this.
I never really put the him a bit his ability to read minds with the scalp prickling untilyou mentioned that.
So that's just more.
Yeah, that's just more theories.
That's like, okay.
(09:05):
Okay.
Well, then I've got even more coming at you.
I cannot wait.
So with that, we'll also be looking for situations where Xaden may have used hisinntinnsic.
signet on other people.
And I also really want to analyze the extent that we think he can use his signet.
Like, can he hear everyone's intentions all at once, or is it focusing on one person?
(09:31):
And I keep, I have this scene in my mind of Twilight where Bella and Edward are out toeat, and Edward's telling Bella about his mind reading, and he looks around and he's
reading what, like he's saying out loud what people's thoughts are.
but he focuses on one at a time and I want to say it's implied that he can read all atonce, but that would be so overwhelming.
(09:51):
I was wondering that too.
I was wondering if Xaden had the same thing and if he can kind of control it to where he'slooks at you, know what you're thinking or the intention.
So what's the difference between that two?
Can he actually hear thought for thought?
or can he just see the intentions?
(10:12):
I think that the way it was explained in the book is he as he understands it he is onlyreading intentions but Xaden himself
cannot seem to distinguish between intentions, people's thoughts, or the words they speak.
And we see that in how he speaks to Violet when she doesn't say something out loud.
(10:34):
And that was when he was trying to keep it secret because he would die if anyone found outthat he had this signet.
And he says this in the book.
He doesn't know much about it.
He doesn't understand it because anyone who has ever had a signet like it is dead.
because they're killed.
So he doesn't have anyone to ask those questions to.
So the fact that he doesn't really understand it and he's the one telling us itsintentions says to me, it very likely is more than just intentions, but he only knows how
(11:05):
to interpret it as intentions.
Now we can get more into this in another episode, but I want this segment to go too, toolong.
But what we learned from several of the Riders is that they're
Signets grow more that they learn to control them.
So while it could have started out with him reading intentions or thinking that that'swhat it is, that's the words he's using, it could grow over time.
(11:29):
And when, at what point does he start to realize it's full thoughts?
You know, and, is it, if it, if we think about how Violet and Rebecca Yarris has said, notwo signets are the same.
If we think about how
Violet learned to do grand lightning strikes, but she would get exhausted channeling.
(11:53):
Is it like that with my mind reading or intention reading where you use a little bit up ofyour power every time?
So no, he can't hear everyone's all at once.
And yes, he has to intentionally be looking for it.
I think that makes more sense, especially as he is still manifesting his full strength.
But it's a fascinating conversation that we will interrogate more as we get through thechapters.
(12:15):
We'll definitely dive into that.
Clearly it's something I'm super interested in.
I'm obsessed with this.
Like it's so interesting to see like what you're catching that I have missed or like justa different way of thinking about it, right?
Cause we're different and we have different way of thinking about things.
And so it's so interesting and I'm excited like for the more information we're going toget and a deep dive in here.
(12:41):
what you know, because with your extensive research about it.
I will say one last thing about that.
Next time Xaden slips up to Violet, she needs to tell him because imagine if heaccidentally responded to someone's thoughts out loud that wasn't Violet.
How do you explain that?
It would be over for him.
(13:02):
But, know, then again, he's a Venin now and Elle, so you can't really get that much moreover for him.
Moving on.
my gosh, there's so much there.
I know.
That's just one of his signets.
I would also like to touch quickly on how we are going to be speculating on whatsituations Xaden may have actually used his shadows to hear conversations.
(13:26):
So not sure if you caught this, Karen, but in chapter 10, page 130.
Xaden says that his shadows see everything.
He says, quote, know everything that goes on here.
Shadows, remember, they hear everything, see everything, conceal everything.
Now, he could be using his shadows as a way to explain the things he knows from being anInntinnsic But I also think that the idea of his shadows actually being able to hear
(13:51):
conversations is really fucking cool.
So we'll be looking for situations of that too.
That is, my gosh, it's I hadn't really thought about it.
I thought about.
his shadows being able to hear conversations.
I never thought about the connection where he could kind of explain away some things thathe knows that he's definitely not supposed to know, that he could have found out through
(14:12):
his inntinnsic abilities, but just being like, my shadows, they hear everything, you know?
Exactly.
We kind of saw that whenever he mentioned Dain and Violet
In the halls right like he said that his shadows heard everything did they actually or washe reading intentions Well, we'll be getting to that in our next couple episodes Another
(14:35):
thing we'll be looking at is Dain signet and when he steals violets memories because I'mreally interested in knowing that yeah, and I also like we'll explore more in depth about
what his abilities are with his signet but I really want to know if you were shocked whenyou found out that that Dain had been sealing her memories.
(14:56):
Yes.
Yes, I was so shocked and I already wasn't the biggest fan of Dain because he wasn't verysupportive of Violet this whole time and he had no faith in her, but to learn that he did
that, he stole her memories, I was so shocked
I am so glad to hear you say that because I'm not a Dain fan either and it's not becauseof his signet.
(15:19):
It's actually because of the way that he treated Violet and still somewhat does but hegets better about it in Iron Flame.
We'll be talking about that more later.
I will say that I just wrote his cupping of her face, especially the use of that word, offas just like him being an overly touchy person and that was their thing
(15:39):
like just him being weird.
I did not connect that he was using his powers like that, even though it would have beenright in front of us when he told her that he read them by touching someone's face.
Like why I did not even put that together.
So we'll definitely be definitely be looking at that now.
Yeah, we'll definitely explore that more because whenever he first told Violet
(16:03):
He told her he had to touch their temples.
And now I want to know if he was telling the truth and he just grew his signet or if hetold her that so he could touch her face and read her memories without her really
realizing it.
But we'll get more into that.
Yeah, that's actually really interesting, especially because the conversation we werehaving about Xaden and how signets can progress over time.
(16:28):
Like maybe at the point where he first touches her face, that is all he can do.
And it did grow eventually or has it?
We haven't really gotten confirmation that he does anything but touching, but maybe that'scoming up in Onyx Storm.
Just all the things that were, there's so many things.
To add on to that, all of the epigraphs.
So epigraphs are the little passages at the top of every chapter.
(16:52):
What do we know now that changes how we interpret them and what do we still not have anexplanation for?
Those are the questions we're going to be asking as we go through each one.
And I've seen a lot of comments from people before saying that they didn't even pay muchattention to the
I kind of picked up on it as I went that she was giving us more context about the worldbuilding and so they were important, but I didn't quite know the extent of how important
(17:20):
they were to Rebecca.
So she has actually recently said that epigraphs are her most important real estate in thebook and that she typically writes them as she writes the chapters.
So I'm going give you the quote.
She said quote, sometimes I'll say insert epigraph in the outline as I'm drafting, then goback and insert either a hint at what's coming in that chapter or what I need you to go
(17:43):
back and find.
So talk about Easter egg queen.
She then said quote, they are my most valuable real estate to just like sneak littlethings in there.
So if you're not reading them, you should.
Rebecca, Rebecca, we will be.
And I am one of those people you just mentioned like some people you read them you justdon't Pay attention to them and we should because they're there for a reason right and I'm
(18:12):
one of those people that was just like Okay, why'd they put that in there?
That's fun.
Maybe it's for this chapter and like what you know, like that kind of thing I reallydidn't realize that she was placing that much emphasis on They are there for a reason pay
attention take note
Absolutely.
And I think the fact that she recently said that like this year, so post Iron Flame, shewants us to go back and look at what we may have missed to give clues for building up to
(18:43):
Onyx Storm.
So it seems very, very important.
I also want to throw in another fun fact real quick.
She also says she keeps a quote, very precise document of exactly what's in every epigraphand every book and who's written it.
And it's all color coded.
This is giving the Taylor Swift music video where she said they had a thumb drive of allthe Easter eggs.
(19:11):
Yes.
my gosh, you're totally right.
And you know what?
I would die to get my hands on that document.
Like, I almost wonder if we should try and make one for ourselves and like organize it bybook and who said what and then color code it.
That might.
Someone some smart Empyrean fans probably already done this and if you have please pointthem our way us their way I would love love love to see if it exists and if not, I feel
(19:38):
like that's something that I would go down a rabbit hole for Yeah, seems a little bit moreyear speed We'll also explore who could be Venin and and at what point do we think Jack
turned Venin
Yes, will absolutely be discussing that part in depth in the chapters by chapters episodecoming up next week and these these things aren't really questions but things will be
(20:02):
keeping in mind as we reread so Rebecca Yarros has let us know that violet was supposed tobe the one to turn venin at the end of Iron flame.
Yes.
No, I had no idea.
I had it marked for those listening.
I had it marked off so she couldn't read the notes.
I wasn't sure if you'd seen that before and I didn't want to ask and ruin it.
(20:25):
No.
my gosh.
I had no idea.
Yeah.
So her editor actually told her that she needed to change it to Xaden, but she said thateverything she wrote in fourth wing and like originally in Iron Flames was setting up for
Violet to be the one to turn.
the win we said earlier in the episode, she had these plots built out in her mind beforeshe started running fourth wing.
(20:50):
That was a major plot point for that to shift.
What does that affect?
And I'm sorry to be the one to say this.
I haven't seen people say it, but if she already planned to turn violet, Venin I thinkthat means that violet is going to turn venin eventually.
And she just switched the order.
(21:11):
Could so see that happening my heart will Keep my heart can't handle this Rebecca, but I'mso excited to see where it goes I mean if you think about the fact that that it like she
already had to have planned that right because Her editor making a major change to herplot Right, and she had already set up.
(21:34):
Yeah, like I don't know.
I don't know So we'll be getting into that
my gosh, that's going to be so interesting to see, see where it goes.
Absolutely.
I'm kind of terrified for Onyx Storm because of that, but also, don't know if you knewthis, and Andarna was never in her first plotting plan.
(21:59):
That changes everything.
huh.
She said that it was a compromise between herself, Rebecca Yarros, is we were referringto, and her editor.
So we will be keeping that in mind as we theorize about the role that Andarna and herbeing a seventh breed has in the grand scheme of like where this plot is going.
I've also read theories that the whole series is about Andarna.
(22:23):
So how does that work if she was never supposed to be in it to begin with?
Just all of these questions that will
we'll be interrogating as we make our way through our reread.
Right, and as we mentioned before, there are Easter eggs that we still don't have answersto.
Obviously, we have three books left, so we'll be pointing out things that we don't know.
(22:43):
Yes.
And things that we've seen in hindsight.
Yes, so we are armed with lots of questions, as you can tell, as we deep dive super deep,super deep into this world.
I am certain more will come up as we go and we will also be asking questions more specificto the chapters sections as we go through those individually.
If you have any other questions you would like for us to explore, please, please reach outand we will include them.
(23:09):
Just remember we are new to podcasting.
We're still finding what works for us.
We are human and we may occasionally get something wrong.
We encourage you to email us if this is case alongside all of your theories, insights,suggestions, and comments to DearFantasyReaderPod @ gmail .com or drop them below if
you're watching on YouTube.
(23:29):
Yes, if you've made it this far, thank you and we would super appreciate if you wouldleave us a review.
and share to all of your fourth wing friends.
Thank you all so much for listening.
Our first chapters by chapters episode will drop next Tuesday beginning with chapters onethrough four in case you would like to read along with us anywhere you prefer to listen to
your podcast.
(23:50):
And in the meantime, subscribe to our YouTube, follow us over on TikTok and Instagram.
And we are currently doing a giveaway that you do not want to miss out on.
Until next week, dearest fantasy readers, prepare yourselves to enter Basgiath War Collegeas we continue our journey through the Empyrean series.
Dearest fantasy readers, welcome, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader podcast where twobest friends, Hannah and Karen, travel through the pages of our favorite romantasy novels.
Join us as we take flight into the world of the Empyrean series, diving deep into thechapters, exploring characters, scenes, theories, foreshadowing, and more, taking what
(00:27):
we've learned from the second book, Iron Flame, to reread and re -experience the first.
With that, content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everythingEmpyrean series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarros has given us.
So if you haven't already read both books, save this podcast, go do that and we'll bewaiting here when you are done.
(00:50):
Also, due to the nature of these books, as you are all too familiar with if you have readthese books, this podcast is rated R in content and in language.
As Rebecca Yarros says,
Readers who may be sensitive to these elements take note and prepare to enter Basgiath WarCollege.
As we have all learned, before Riders can master their signets they have to learn toground.
(01:17):
And that is what this episode is all about.
Yes, we are laying the groundwork before we dive deep into the chapters of Fourth Wing inthese upcoming episodes.
Here we'll be discussing how we are going to analyze Fourth Wing through the lens of IronFlame.
what we learned in Iron flame that changes how we experience fourth wing and the questionsthat we'll be asking along the way.
(01:41):
Hannah, I did not realize how great Rebecca Yaros is at foreshadowing on my first read.
I had no idea.
And she throws in so many Easter eggs in there.
And that makes sense.
She is a Swiftie.
That's actually one of my favorite things about the series as a whole.
I don't know if you know this, but Rebecca Yarros said that she had already had theentirety of the series plotted out before she even started writing Fourth Wing Did you
(02:09):
know that?
I had no idea about that.
That's insane!
Yes, so initially it was supposed to be only three books, but she had the plot points inmind for the story she was going to tell throughout.
Then in writing Iron Flames, she...
changed it to five and realized it needed to be longer, which we'll get to later in otherepisodes.
But the fact that she knows everything about how it ends and how we get there, she gets tosprinkle things throughout the entire story that like clue us in, dropping little hints.
(02:41):
What blows my mind the most is that she recently said, quote, there are tons of thingsthat I lay into the first book that don't come into fruition in the second book.
But are coming to pass in other books that I won't point out because that would becheating Chills my gosh, that's so exciting.
(03:03):
my gosh.
It's so cool I mean this means that there are Easter eggs sprinkled all throughout bothfourth wing and iron flame that we don't even understand yet Which we kind of got that
hint through fourth wing, right?
There's things that we picked up on which we'll be exploring which is the whole point ofthis podcast Picking up on those things.
We missed the first time
as we reread Fourth Wing, but we'll also be picking up on things that maybe she sprinkledin that we don't have answers to.
(03:31):
Wow, I'm so excited.
I cannot wait to read Onyx Storm.
Can you imagine after we read Onyx Storm, if you go back and reread Fourth Wing, we'regoing to be like, how did I miss this?
That is what I love about
There's an experience you have when you first read Fourth Wing.
There's an experience you have when you first read Iron Flame.
(03:52):
And with this series, you get to reread and it's a whole new experience because now youknow things that you didn't know before.
And so it really prolongs the experience of being in the Empyrean world.
And in our case, we're prolonging it to set up just in time for Onyx Storm to release.
(04:14):
we don't have to just like, well, we are, we still are in our book hangover phase, butwe're basically like, is it remedying it in the meantime?
Like, that the way to say it?
For sure, we are staying in this world as long as possible so we don't get sad and have towait.
(04:35):
Exactly!
6 months for a Onyx Storm.
I love that you get me.
I get you.
So let's talk about what is so significant about Iron Flame that makes rereading FourthWing a whole new experience.
To really get to the elephant in the room, we know Signets that we did not know before.
(04:58):
They Xaden So true.
And we know Brennan.
We know that he's actually alive.
We have more and different context about Violet's mom.
And that she made a deal with Xaden to keep Violet alive.
We also learned that who we were introduced as the bad guys were not actually the badguys.
(05:21):
Yeah.
With that, we've also gotten to experience the side of the revolution.
What is really going on in Poromiel
with the Gryphon Flyers and then the Alliance Xaden severed just before the start offourth wing.
We also learned more about Andarna.
and the fact that Andarna had chosen Violet from the start.
(05:42):
So it wasn't she didn't make that decision in the clearing that day.
She knew going into threshing.
So we'll get to that more at that chapter section.
But mind blowing.
We also know more about how Venin work
Mm -hmm.
so much more and still so much more to know so many theories attached to that We will alsobe looking at all of the Easter eggs in the epigraphs Which we'll get to explaining more
(06:10):
about that in just a moment But first let's walk through all of the questions.
We will be asking ourselves throughout this reread
Now, keep in mind, we'll be adding more as we go.
And if you have any you'd like for us to include, please, please shoot us an email orcomment below if you're on YouTube.
We would love to include them.
The first question that we all have is when was Xaden using his signets, plural, becausehe has two of them specifically on Violet.
(06:43):
So we'll be looking at moments of
scalp tickling and analyzing what we think Xaden is looking for in those moments.
What intention, what is it tied to?
And before we get into other questions about his signet, Karen, did you guess that Xadenwas some sort of inntinnsic or were you surprised by that in Iron Flame?
Okay, so I thought, I didn't know exactly what it was, right?
(07:08):
Like I didn't know the word for it or if he could have the ability to read all minds,
I thought that there was some chance that he could read Violet's mind.
Just because she had said several times, I didn't know I said that out loud.
She was like thinking that.
And so he kind of slipped with that, right?
Like he could read her thoughts.
(07:31):
Yeah, so I was not sure if it was just a connection that they had or if he was had fullyhad the ability to read minds.
Yeah.
Did you think that?
Like I feel like in retrospect,
I can't say I did.
I noticed those moments and really I chalked it up.
I chalked the moments of the speaking into her mind and not being like, she didn't say itout loud as either Violet is really just down bad for this man.
(07:59):
But then I was like, but that would be an editing and we would know that.
I, you
But then I thought, maybe they actually can get to the point where they read each other's.
Like, I thought it might be a bond thing.
To be fair, though, I went straight into Iron flame from Fourth wing.
Like, I can go back and notice those in detail before getting the context that Iron flameprovided.
(08:19):
And when I did catch the scalp -prickling part, I chalked it up to her having strongsenses because she's very intuitive.
and just describing her attraction for him.
So when I found out about it, I like, I definitely like found out when Violet found outand I loved having that experience of, I kind of feel like this is betrayal, but I also,
(08:44):
this is fucking cool.
And that's a good point about this.
I never really put the him a bit his ability to read minds with the scalp prickling untilyou mentioned that.
So that's just more.
Yeah, that's just more theories.
That's like, okay.
(09:05):
Okay.
Well, then I've got even more coming at you.
I cannot wait.
So with that, we'll also be looking for situations where Xaden may have used hisinntinnsic.
signet on other people.
And I also really want to analyze the extent that we think he can use his signet.
Like, can he hear everyone's intentions all at once, or is it focusing on one person?
(09:31):
And I keep, I have this scene in my mind of Twilight where Bella and Edward are out toeat, and Edward's telling Bella about his mind reading, and he looks around and he's
reading what, like he's saying out loud what people's thoughts are.
but he focuses on one at a time and I want to say it's implied that he can read all atonce, but that would be so overwhelming.
(09:51):
I was wondering that too.
I was wondering if Xaden had the same thing and if he can kind of control it to where he'slooks at you, know what you're thinking or the intention.
So what's the difference between that two?
Can he actually hear thought for thought?
or can he just see the intentions?
(10:12):
I think that the way it was explained in the book is he as he understands it he is onlyreading intentions but Xaden himself
cannot seem to distinguish between intentions, people's thoughts, or the words they speak.
And we see that in how he speaks to Violet when she doesn't say something out loud.
(10:34):
And that was when he was trying to keep it secret because he would die if anyone found outthat he had this signet.
And he says this in the book.
He doesn't know much about it.
He doesn't understand it because anyone who has ever had a signet like it is dead.
because they're killed.
So he doesn't have anyone to ask those questions to.
So the fact that he doesn't really understand it and he's the one telling us itsintentions says to me, it very likely is more than just intentions, but he only knows how
(11:05):
to interpret it as intentions.
Now we can get more into this in another episode, but I want this segment to go too, toolong.
But what we learned from several of the Riders is that they're
Signets grow more that they learn to control them.
So while it could have started out with him reading intentions or thinking that that'swhat it is, that's the words he's using, it could grow over time.
(11:29):
And when, at what point does he start to realize it's full thoughts?
You know, and, is it, if it, if we think about how Violet and Rebecca Yarris has said, notwo signets are the same.
If we think about how
Violet learned to do grand lightning strikes, but she would get exhausted channeling.
(11:53):
Is it like that with my mind reading or intention reading where you use a little bit up ofyour power every time?
So no, he can't hear everyone's all at once.
And yes, he has to intentionally be looking for it.
I think that makes more sense, especially as he is still manifesting his full strength.
But it's a fascinating conversation that we will interrogate more as we get through thechapters.
(12:15):
We'll definitely dive into that.
Clearly it's something I'm super interested in.
I'm obsessed with this.
Like it's so interesting to see like what you're catching that I have missed or like justa different way of thinking about it, right?
Cause we're different and we have different way of thinking about things.
And so it's so interesting and I'm excited like for the more information we're going toget and a deep dive in here.
(12:41):
what you know, because with your extensive research about it.
I will say one last thing about that.
Next time Xaden slips up to Violet, she needs to tell him because imagine if heaccidentally responded to someone's thoughts out loud that wasn't Violet.
How do you explain that?
It would be over for him.
(13:02):
But, know, then again, he's a Venin now and Elle, so you can't really get that much moreover for him.
Moving on.
my gosh, there's so much there.
I know.
That's just one of his signets.
I would also like to touch quickly on how we are going to be speculating on whatsituations Xaden may have actually used his shadows to hear conversations.
(13:26):
So not sure if you caught this, Karen, but in chapter 10, page 130.
Xaden says that his shadows see everything.
He says, quote, know everything that goes on here.
Shadows, remember, they hear everything, see everything, conceal everything.
Now, he could be using his shadows as a way to explain the things he knows from being anInntinnsic But I also think that the idea of his shadows actually being able to hear
(13:51):
conversations is really fucking cool.
So we'll be looking for situations of that too.
That is, my gosh, it's I hadn't really thought about it.
I thought about.
his shadows being able to hear conversations.
I never thought about the connection where he could kind of explain away some things thathe knows that he's definitely not supposed to know, that he could have found out through
(14:12):
his inntinnsic abilities, but just being like, my shadows, they hear everything, you know?
Exactly.
We kind of saw that whenever he mentioned Dain and Violet
In the halls right like he said that his shadows heard everything did they actually or washe reading intentions Well, we'll be getting to that in our next couple episodes Another
(14:35):
thing we'll be looking at is Dain signet and when he steals violets memories because I'mreally interested in knowing that yeah, and I also like we'll explore more in depth about
what his abilities are with his signet but I really want to know if you were shocked whenyou found out that that Dain had been sealing her memories.
(14:56):
Yes.
Yes, I was so shocked and I already wasn't the biggest fan of Dain because he wasn't verysupportive of Violet this whole time and he had no faith in her, but to learn that he did
that, he stole her memories, I was so shocked
I am so glad to hear you say that because I'm not a Dain fan either and it's not becauseof his signet.
(15:19):
It's actually because of the way that he treated Violet and still somewhat does but hegets better about it in Iron Flame.
We'll be talking about that more later.
I will say that I just wrote his cupping of her face, especially the use of that word, offas just like him being an overly touchy person and that was their thing
(15:39):
like just him being weird.
I did not connect that he was using his powers like that, even though it would have beenright in front of us when he told her that he read them by touching someone's face.
Like why I did not even put that together.
So we'll definitely be definitely be looking at that now.
Yeah, we'll definitely explore that more because whenever he first told Violet
(16:03):
He told her he had to touch their temples.
And now I want to know if he was telling the truth and he just grew his signet or if hetold her that so he could touch her face and read her memories without her really
realizing it.
But we'll get more into that.
Yeah, that's actually really interesting, especially because the conversation we werehaving about Xaden and how signets can progress over time.
(16:28):
Like maybe at the point where he first touches her face, that is all he can do.
And it did grow eventually or has it?
We haven't really gotten confirmation that he does anything but touching, but maybe that'scoming up in Onyx Storm.
Just all the things that were, there's so many things.
To add on to that, all of the epigraphs.
So epigraphs are the little passages at the top of every chapter.
(16:52):
What do we know now that changes how we interpret them and what do we still not have anexplanation for?
Those are the questions we're going to be asking as we go through each one.
And I've seen a lot of comments from people before saying that they didn't even pay muchattention to the
I kind of picked up on it as I went that she was giving us more context about the worldbuilding and so they were important, but I didn't quite know the extent of how important
(17:20):
they were to Rebecca.
So she has actually recently said that epigraphs are her most important real estate in thebook and that she typically writes them as she writes the chapters.
So I'm going give you the quote.
She said quote, sometimes I'll say insert epigraph in the outline as I'm drafting, then goback and insert either a hint at what's coming in that chapter or what I need you to go
(17:43):
back and find.
So talk about Easter egg queen.
She then said quote, they are my most valuable real estate to just like sneak littlethings in there.
So if you're not reading them, you should.
Rebecca, Rebecca, we will be.
And I am one of those people you just mentioned like some people you read them you justdon't Pay attention to them and we should because they're there for a reason right and I'm
(18:12):
one of those people that was just like Okay, why'd they put that in there?
That's fun.
Maybe it's for this chapter and like what you know, like that kind of thing I reallydidn't realize that she was placing that much emphasis on They are there for a reason pay
attention take note
Absolutely.
And I think the fact that she recently said that like this year, so post Iron Flame, shewants us to go back and look at what we may have missed to give clues for building up to
(18:43):
Onyx Storm.
So it seems very, very important.
I also want to throw in another fun fact real quick.
She also says she keeps a quote, very precise document of exactly what's in every epigraphand every book and who's written it.
And it's all color coded.
This is giving the Taylor Swift music video where she said they had a thumb drive of allthe Easter eggs.
(19:11):
Yes.
my gosh, you're totally right.
And you know what?
I would die to get my hands on that document.
Like, I almost wonder if we should try and make one for ourselves and like organize it bybook and who said what and then color code it.
That might.
Someone some smart Empyrean fans probably already done this and if you have please pointthem our way us their way I would love love love to see if it exists and if not, I feel
(19:38):
like that's something that I would go down a rabbit hole for Yeah, seems a little bit moreyear speed We'll also explore who could be Venin and and at what point do we think Jack
turned Venin
Yes, will absolutely be discussing that part in depth in the chapters by chapters episodecoming up next week and these these things aren't really questions but things will be
(20:02):
keeping in mind as we reread so Rebecca Yarros has let us know that violet was supposed tobe the one to turn venin at the end of Iron flame.
Yes.
No, I had no idea.
I had it marked for those listening.
I had it marked off so she couldn't read the notes.
I wasn't sure if you'd seen that before and I didn't want to ask and ruin it.
(20:25):
No.
my gosh.
I had no idea.
Yeah.
So her editor actually told her that she needed to change it to Xaden, but she said thateverything she wrote in fourth wing and like originally in Iron Flames was setting up for
Violet to be the one to turn.
the win we said earlier in the episode, she had these plots built out in her mind beforeshe started running fourth wing.
(20:50):
That was a major plot point for that to shift.
What does that affect?
And I'm sorry to be the one to say this.
I haven't seen people say it, but if she already planned to turn violet, Venin I thinkthat means that violet is going to turn venin eventually.
And she just switched the order.
(21:11):
Could so see that happening my heart will Keep my heart can't handle this Rebecca, but I'mso excited to see where it goes I mean if you think about the fact that that it like she
already had to have planned that right because Her editor making a major change to herplot Right, and she had already set up.
(21:34):
Yeah, like I don't know.
I don't know So we'll be getting into that
my gosh, that's going to be so interesting to see, see where it goes.
Absolutely.
I'm kind of terrified for Onyx Storm because of that, but also, don't know if you knewthis, and Andarna was never in her first plotting plan.
(21:59):
That changes everything.
huh.
She said that it was a compromise between herself, Rebecca Yarros, is we were referringto, and her editor.
So we will be keeping that in mind as we theorize about the role that Andarna and herbeing a seventh breed has in the grand scheme of like where this plot is going.
I've also read theories that the whole series is about Andarna.
(22:23):
So how does that work if she was never supposed to be in it to begin with?
Just all of these questions that will
we'll be interrogating as we make our way through our reread.
Right, and as we mentioned before, there are Easter eggs that we still don't have answersto.
Obviously, we have three books left, so we'll be pointing out things that we don't know.
(22:43):
Yes.
And things that we've seen in hindsight.
Yes, so we are armed with lots of questions, as you can tell, as we deep dive super deep,super deep into this world.
I am certain more will come up as we go and we will also be asking questions more specificto the chapters sections as we go through those individually.
If you have any other questions you would like for us to explore, please, please reach outand we will include them.
(23:09):
Just remember we are new to podcasting.
We're still finding what works for us.
We are human and we may occasionally get something wrong.
We encourage you to email us if this is case alongside all of your theories, insights,suggestions, and comments to DearFantasyReaderPod @ gmail .com or drop them below if
you're watching on YouTube.
(23:29):
Yes, if you've made it this far, thank you and we would super appreciate if you wouldleave us a review.
and share to all of your fourth wing friends.
Thank you all so much for listening.
Our first chapters by chapters episode will drop next Tuesday beginning with chapters onethrough four in case you would like to read along with us anywhere you prefer to listen to
your podcast.
(23:50):
And in the meantime, subscribe to our YouTube, follow us over on TikTok and Instagram.
And we are currently doing a giveaway that you do not want to miss out on.
Until next week, dearest fantasy readers, prepare yourselves to enter Basgiath War Collegeas we continue our journey through the Empyrean series.
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