April 25, 2024 • 49 mins
Anyonghaseyo! 안녕하세요!
We're thrilled to welcome our guest today, Hyunwoo Sun, Founder and CEO of Talk To Me in Korean (TTMIK). Hyunwoo began his Korean language educational services in 2009, recognizing a gap in language learning options. Starting with a meetup in Seoul, he observed limitations in available tools.
Understanding the transformative power of language, Hyunwoo aimed to make learning Korean fun, easy, and accessible. Today, TTMIK is a leading Korean language service, with 1.4 million users across 190 countries enjoying their textbooks, YouTube videos, podcasts, and more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Monica H. Kang (00:03):
Talk to me in Korean, please. It's often an expression that many foreigners who are learning Korean might notice. They want to say when they're in Korea because a lot of people unconsciously end up speaking English in wanting to help the foreigners navigate the country or the city. But as you might have guessed, they also want to learn Korean and it's not as helpful when they start spending speaking in English and dont let them a chance to practice their Korean. So it was the very pain point that my friend today talked to me in Korea.,TTMIK, founder and CEO Hyunwon Sun have noticed as he wanted to help his friends and people who were visiting Korea who wanted to learn Korean today. Talk to me in Korean is one of the most popular korean language educational services, which providing 1.4 million registered users across 190 countries.
(01:04):
Another way of saying it, if you were learning Caribbean, you probably have come across their workbook, their exercises, YouTube, Instagram, podcasts and many more. He started in 2009 and hoped to start first with a community gathering of geez, how do I bring people who want to learn Korean into now rethinking how we do korean language studies? Overall, it's incredible, and even more so how his humbling journey has started from in a language exchange club back in 2008 to his podcast in 2009. They've definitely learned a lot and most importantly, grown and rethought how korean language teaching could be. And one fun surprise, hes actually never lived abroad and perhaps so it inspired him as he think about how he learned English, to think about how others might be learning Korean to make it fun, practical, but enjoyable.
(02:05):
So meet my friend Hyunwon who's going to share what its like to learn Korean and what you can do to learn Korean. You might want to take some notes in how you can practice right here, right now.
Welcome back to Dear Webpage. I'm very excited today to have Hyunwon Sun and we're going to dive into all about korean language because hey, like if you do want to learn about a new culture, you might want to learn about how to speak the language. And Hyunwon has been thinking very much about it in the space in multiple languages, but especially Korean as we dive in. So Hyunwon, welcome to the show. First, I am very curious. How in the world did you get passionate about language stuff in linguistics as a career in the first place?
Hyunwoo Sun (02:49):
First of all, hello and welcome to everyone. I was born and raised in Korea in this city. It's not a small city, it has over a million people living in it currently, but I was born in the city of Gwangju, and the first time I saw the dots before I started connecting them, was when I saw that my species style, which turned out to be my local dialect, and the way people spoke on tv were a little bit different. So that's when I first saw the dots, right? So I wanted to connect them. So I was, I think, around ten years old when I realized this. And also I realized that my relatives who were living in Busan, they all also spoke a different kind of dialect, which was the Busan dialect.
(03:37):
So I was kind of toying with the idea of connecting these three dots as a ten year old in Korea. So by eleven or twelve years of age, I was speaking fluently between the Gwangju dialect and the Busan dialect, which can be a little bit different. So that was that. And then when I moved to Seoul to attend college, Korea University, I was actually able to interact with the native speaker, so to speak, of the Seoul dialect. And, yeah, that's when I saw the beauty and the joy of actually switching language switching within the korean language. And also, by coincidence, I got some interest. I found some interest in English as a high schooler. Because high school life was really stressful, and I wanted an outlet or some ways to vent my stress on something else.
(04:34):
So I started studying English, and I found it to be really interesting and fun, and I saw some progress. So I studied really hard. That's the beginning of all my interests in terms of languages.
Monica H. Kang (04:47):
Love it. Especially with a local, different korean dialect. I mean, it's so true, because in most languages, there's multiple dialects. For those who are hearing about Korean for the first time, would you be okay if you could do a real time demo of the Busan, gwangju, and like, seoulmal, how they're slightly different of one or two words, so I'm not.
Hyunwoo Sun (05:06):
Really good at Busan dialect anymore. But for example, as a Gwangju person, I would say Odinya. Odinya to a friend of mine or to my sisters, and then my Busan relatives would say Odiko. The intonation is very different. And then a soul version of that would be Odiya. So I don't think anything is better than the other, but it's just different. So I thought it was really interesting. So that's when I realized for the first time the existence of various accents and various languages. In this world, not everybody speaks in the same tongue.
Monica H. Kang (05:45):
Yeah. And for those who didn't know what Odia, Odiku, and all of that means, it means where are you? Or where are you heading so that, I think is so meaningful? And that was a really powerful example. I think even Koreans or non Koreans can distinctively tell the difference. But I do want to make sure we highlight because it's a whole other thing to say. Hey, I think it's so cool that these language differences are noticeable that, like, that's interesting, but it's a whole other thing to build a career out of it, which you have done and continue to help. Now, thousands and thousands of people, millions around the world, learn Korean in a friendly, fun, creative way. We're going to get there. But before that, there's a humbling journey in how you all started.
(06:25):
I heard that back in 2000, 2008, you started with a language exchange club and also a podcast. Why did you wanted to do that and why did you want to start that? Tell me a little bit more.
Hyunwoo Sun (06:36):
So, going back a little further, I've always been somebody who likes to solve problems one at a time. I don't set out building big dreams or visions or plans for the next ten years or 20 years. Maybe that's the better way to do it in terms of building large businesses. But when I was younger, I've always been fascinated by solving or being able to solve one problem at a time. And then once you solve this problem, that's right ahead of you see another set of problems that you didn't see before because your view was blocked by the previous problem. So the first problem that I wanted to solve was the fact that I didn't speak English in high school. So I wanted to solve that. And I did solve it by studying for three, four years really diligently.
(07:27):
And then once I did that, I saw by coincidence on the university campus, some really young middle school, high school boys breakdancing on the floor, like secretly hidden from the security guards and from the security cameras. So they were there training, but it just looked fantastic to me. They were spinning on their heads, they were doing flips. So I was like, I went up to them and said, I've never seen anyone do that in real life. I've never imagined the human body could do that. Can you teach me? And then they said, oh, I will teach you, but can you also let us train here in exchange? Because we're not university students who attend here. So were like, helping each other. We were training together, and whenever the security guard came along, I said, oh, we go here, right?
(08:16):
And I would show them my hak seng jung like student identity card. And that was that. So I started breakdancing. And the first problem was solved. You know, I was able to break dance. I was able to do head spins and windmills and flips. But then the next problem came around, which was that I wanted to train better in a smart way. So I started recording myself and saw that my legs were not kicking high enough or fast enough. I was kind of monitoring myself, but then I kept losing the footage because the hard drives back then, you know, those hard drives that actually had motors inside, kept failing. So that was the problem. And I wanted to solve that by storing the footage on the Internet. The website that I found, this random website called YouTube.com.
Monica H. Kang (09:07):
Wow.
Hyunwoo Sun (09:09):
Had this feature where I could upload videos and I could watch them later on. Right? This was before YouTube's Google days, and I posted my breakdance videos thinking that I would be the only one watching them. But then somehow I got email notifications of comments from other people, from other countries. So that is how I started connecting with people in other parts of the world in 2006 or seven, I think. And then as the comments kept coming in, they were asking for information about Korea. Hey, you seem to be a korean breakdancer. B boys, can you film more videos about Korea? So I was like, okay, that's interesting. So I solved that problem, too. And then I became more interested in connecting with other people because now I had been doing breakdancing for like, seven, eight years.
(10:08):
So I got my fair share of joy out of it. So I was like, okay, fine. I'm not going to be a professional breakdancer. So how am I going to solve this problem, which is people wanting to know more about Korea and me wanting to show more of Korea. And I didn't have enough money to go overseas to study. Like, 2006, I was 27 in korean age, and then I hadn't been out of the country. I was thinking my options, and the only way I could interact with people from other countries was to create a meetup, language exchange meetup. Something that I could do without any money. I just walked up to this coffee shop that looked spacious enough and asked the owner, can I bring 50 people every Monday at 07:00 p.m.
(10:54):
Your business might not be busy by then because you're a coffee shop. Can I just bring 50 people every Monday evening and have them all order one drink? And they were happy about it. And eventually we had to find a bigger place, like every three months or four months, because more and more people kept coming. Yeah, that's how I started the language exchange. So I didn't have this amazing vision in me one day, it was all just linear progress. I saw one thing I did that did something, and then to fix it, and then something else presented itself to me. So I also worked on that next challenge.
Monica H. Kang (11:41):
You are a true problem solver indeed. I think it's so inspiring to hear, you know, not only when you did come from those moments of with a video when you realize that, wait, it's actually being uploaded in the world. Like, people, I think some people might have freaked out and, like, just taken that video, but instead you're like, oh, okay, I will respond and engage, which I think is part of your strength. And what's so inspiring that you continue to fuel that energy and create a community. Like, even starting with that first invitation, when the other younger students were like, hey, can you give me the permission to break dance here? You're creating that space. And so your space creating skill continue to evolve.
(12:18):
And I think, tell me also, like, because podcast was another thing that you started very early on when it wasn't even something that people knew what podcast was, how did you first learn about it and start?
Hyunwoo Sun (12:28):
So, in terms of podcasting, that was also interesting because I was training in my university, and then because there were global students, international students coming to Korea University as well. Some of them were naturally breakdancers, and they wanted to find other break dancers to hang out with. And I met this australian breakdancer who was always listening to something, and I thought he was listening to breakdance music to kind of do image training and then think of some moves that he could work on. But then it turned out that he was listening to these things called podcasts. And he said that this podcast thing is something new that people can listen to.
(13:16):
You listen to all the episodes, and you hook your device to your computer, and all the listened episodes are automatically deleted, and all the new episodes will be downloaded onto your computer, and then it'll be like, really cleverly syncing everything. So I was fascinated. So I started looking around, and then I saw a bunch of. I was already interested in languages by then, and I saw a lot of language teaching podcasts, and I started listening to maybe, like, ten of them. And then the idea of making something for the korean language wasn't my own to begin with, but one of the podcasts mentioned that, hey, we are also going to launch a korean podcast. So I was actually traveling for work in China.
(14:05):
And then I still remember my surprise and also frustration because given all the surrounding facts, like the fact that I was fascinated by gadgets, early adopter by nature, the fact that I was able to make websites, I just was interested. So I studied them, considering everything. I should have been the first person in the world to announce that I was going to make a korean language teaching podcast. But then this other guy that I didn't even know was announcing on his japanese teaching podcast that he was going to also launch a korean language podcast. So the next natural thing to do was to email him, hey, you cannot start without me. So I was in China, so they did start without me, but I emailed them. Hey, can I work with you guys on some content?
(14:56):
Because I have some really good ideas, some strong ideas as to how the korean language should be taught. I had been thinking about the korean language. I had been speaking it for my entire life. So yeah, we did work on some content together and it was fun. But after a while I was like, I need to start something on my own. Because working part time, 2 hours a day for an american company that was in Japan whose focus was not korean but other languages, I was like, no, this cannot grow bigger. So yeah, I told them that I'm going to start something on my own. They gave me their blessings and then they started talking to me in Korean, just incorporating all my ideas that I had been building up to that moment. And this was in 2000, 915 years ago.
Monica H. Kang (15:50):
Wow, what a journey and humble beginning. I'm also like reflecting on how crisp and detailed your able to look back at all those moments, which is such a key aspect and attribution to know that we never know what are the details that make a difference. And I think you're sharing those and reflection is powerful. Since then I know you have launched, continue to build and create many different ways how people can learn Korean. And one of the things I also appreciate is how you've continued to as you in your personal mantra of being an early adopter of finding new ways how language learning can be done to.
(16:27):
I'm curious, kind of taking a quick scan back since then, in the past 1015 years of building talk to me in Korean and making korean language more fun and accessible, what are perhaps like those challenges and barriers that you've had to go through as you continue to venture out new ways of teaching and helping people learn Korean?
Hyunwoo Sun (16:47):
Well, this has been a challenge, but at the same time a blessing I think, because I've always been sort of a bridge between two worlds. As a local native korean person who grew up to eventually speak English, another language, without living overseas. And also the timing too. I was born in 1980 and by the time I went to college, it was 1999. And back then, the only kind of people, like a small group of people who could speak another language were people who had lived overseas. And then whenever I said something in English in public, or whenever I was having a conversation with somebody in English, everybody assumed that I was a kupo. I was a Korean American or something. So that was a challenge, but also an opportunity for me to present myself.
(17:43):
Hey, I didn't have to live overseas, which would have been nice, but I just didn't have enough money to go overseas or study. So I did this. So you can do that too. If you want to learn to speak another language, you can do what I did. So I wrote my first book in my first year in university. I just got contacted by this university. First, I won this national contest for high school students for their English skills, and I happened to win the first place. So that got out in some news articles. And then the publishing companies, like, saw that news article, and some of them suggested that I published a book. So I got together with a few people who were also talented in learning languages, who were about my age, and we published a book together.
(18:31):
So I became immediately an official bridge between korean people who didn't speak English and the rest of the world, right? So that was my beginning as a bridge. And then that continued on when I started. Talk to me in Korean, because I was also a bridge between. When you look at the academia, all the professors who have studied for a really long time to become a professor, they have their knowledge and they have their experience. And I was somebody who didn't even major in korean language education, who didn't even have this official license to teach the korean language, who just started this podcast on my own, this YouTube channel on my own. We now have 1.7 million YouTube subscribers. But back then, even fifty k, one hundred K YouTube subscribers was also a big deal back then.
(19:30):
So when people who were in the academia looked at me, I was a strange weirdo who this young guy who started doing his own project without the required credentials. And now I'm also looking at my fubes who are younger than me, right? Like younger content creators who probably started what they're doing because they saw Dokti Min Korean growing. And maybe they saw I'm the first generation, they're the second generation. Maybe they saw the 1.5, you know, the middle generation who were also doing well. So the challenge has always been my opportunity too. People not understanding what my job is, people not understanding who I am, people not understanding why I think I'm qualified to do this. But now I don't have to prove that anymore because we have 46 beautifully designed and published books distributed worldwide.
(20:33):
And if you go to any bookstore in Korea that sells korean language teaching books, you see our amazing, beautiful designs and all the rest that don't stand out. I believe that was the big challenge. People not understanding who I am, why I am doing this. Where did they come from? Right? So I've always been kind of in the middle.
Monica H. Kang (20:59):
I think the middle is the perfect way. How you build bridges and connect those different dots. And so appreciate Hyun for you doing so, and continuing to set those new parameters and opportunities of bridges where that wasn't possible. A little quick kind of follow up. So talk to me in Korean. How did you even think of the name of that? What was the origin story and how it came together?
Hyunwoo Sun (21:21):
I actually enjoy coming up with names for things, so I named both my kids myself. I just like naming things. And the idea for talking to me Korean was actually based on the frustration that my multiple friends expressed to me. Because my first international friends, they were in Korea in 1999 when I was a freshman in university. And then it was still new to the korean general public that a foreign person studied in Korea and wanted to actually speak Korean. So it's still there in Korea, but the atmosphere of everybody thinking that, okay, that foreigner must not want to really speak Korean, so I'm going to just practice my English with them, or I'm just going to speak English for them. So everybody was frustrated, hey, I want to learn Korean while I'm here. But everybody just speaks to me in English.
(22:29):
Their frustration was that so they wanted to tell korean people to please talk to them in Korean, right? So I remembered that having those conversations with my first international friends, and about ten years later, when I wanted to launch my brand, it was very natural for me to name it, hey, talk to me in Korean. I also imagined we don't sell merch now. Imagined a learner wearing a t shirt that said, talk to me in Korean as our logo or slogan, which would fit perfectly, right? I know how to speak Korean, so talk to me in that language.
Monica H. Kang (23:04):
So, yeah, I think we need to have that t shirt. Cause I think folks would want to say, please do talk to me in Korean. And that's so cool. And I still remember, I mean, as I mentioned when we met last time, that I had a chance to do some korean tutoring. Grew up bilingual myself as well. So again, on the related gamut of having had formal training, but just speaking the language. I've had a chance to kind of help Korean learning as a second language, like, people who are learning Korean, not ESL, right? Not English as a second language, but people who are learning Korean. And it was just really fun to learn about how you break down the Kyungyunti goods and the aya oya and then, like, just helping them dive into it.
(23:47):
And one of the things I think I've always found inspiring is just the pure passion and curiosity, as you have pointed out, and how the global space has been and wanting to learn more. You've seen the early wave. We're seeing many more. How does it feel now? You know, you've been doing also your business in korean language for a very long time now to see where the world is about Korea, how they think about Korea, understand Korea, understand about korean language. Like, I feel like there's even more none ethnic Koreans who speak better Koreans than Kyopo sometimes. And it's like, tell me a little bit more how you feel when you think about where things are now.
Hyunwoo Sun (24:26):
I think it's definitely really interesting that so much interest is pouring down onto the korean language because it's not a very natural phenomenon, if you think about it, when so many people around the world are studying a language that is so isolated from the other languages. And the korean language has been spoken mainly by the korean people, only by the korean people for such a long time that it didn't go through the same simplification process that English went through, mainly because it was spoken by so many, you know, diverse groups of people all around the world. And the Spanish also became a little more simpler over time, Chinese as well. But the korean language did go through some simplification, but not as much as the other languages has.
(25:19):
So this language has always been very isolated and very rich in idioms and proverbs and cultural reference based crazy slang expressions that are so difficult to decipher at first. So it's a really extremely difficult language. And if you think about the actual learning aspect of it, like, for example, just to give one example, the particles that are attached to the end of nouns, they are very powerful, and they are very difficult for learners to understand. So they learners, they study these particles for hundreds of hours. But in reality, although they are very powerful, native speakers just drop them all the time because they completely understand how they work. They don't really even need to use them, but they know what particle is exactly going to be there while they're driving, so they're imagining it there. So it's that isolated.
(26:24):
I think it's a really fascinating and interesting, maybe even strange phenomenon that so many people are learning Korean. And it's all thanks to two factors, I think, and one is content, and two is korean people who have been interacting with people from other cultural backgrounds. Because if the content, everybody knows the story, but if every korean person who has interacted with people in other countries has been a jerk to them, I don't think as many people would be learning Korean as they are now. So many people attribute many of our learners, at least people that I have spoken to, they have said that the first interactions gave them good impressions, and therefore, they started thinking nicely of korean people in general. So that did help them stay more motivated in learning this language.
Monica H. Kang (27:30):
That's a really powerful reminder that at the end of the day, it really centers around the people. And you've kind of built on both. You've continued to build those communities, you've contributed to building those ecosystems, as well as producing content constantly with all these textbooks and resources, that continues to come out in many different creative ways. The other thing, of course, as a leadership expert, is like, how in the world do you manage your time and energy? Because there's, like, a lot on your hand on top of also being a father. And I heard that you're continuing to do your breakdancing, if I'm correct. So you could be with your hobby, your travels, your family. You know, you just have a global demand interest in korean language. So that's a very high tolerance. And you have your own team in Korea as well.
(28:14):
So what's been your tip and trick of how to manage your time and energy?
Hyunwoo Sun (28:19):
So maybe about ten years ago, I came across this concept of energy management. You know, it's a very fairly widely known concept nowadays, but back then, it was a novel concept to me. Time management, energy management, they are to be understood completely differently. Right? I was more of this time management guy. I was grinding too much. I still remember vividly, my wife remembers vividly that I was working. So my firstborn child was born exactly eleven years ago. And then I was working three minutes until the moment he was born. And then, you know, the nurse would hand deliver him to me. I was, like, working in the lounge of the hospital, and then he showed me the baby, and then they took him away to wash him, and then he would be with me in about a couple of hours.
(29:17):
So I saw him cried a little bit, and then I went back to work on my laptop. So I was that busy on the day we had c section. We had to have c section for various reasons. So I knew the day that were having our child, it wasn't even a surprise. So it was scheduled as our child birthday, but then I was still working. I was that busy. And then something bad happened because I got shingles on my face. Like, that was two months after the baby was born, and I think a few months after that, and that was the biggest pain, the physical pain that I experienced in my life. And I looked it up, and it actually turns out to be one of the biggest pains you can experience. And I had it on my face.
(30:08):
It meant that all the pain sensors on this side of my head were turned on to the maximum. So I couldn't even breathe without pain. I couldn't, you know, if I coughed, it would be like, you know, crazy. So I can't even describe it. So that was big scare. I knew it only lasted usually a week, and it went away. I'm completely fine, of course, now. But that just was a warning sign to me. So I started kind of looking into it, and I saw this concept of energy management, and now, like you said, I do a lot. I have my two boys, super energetic at home, always running to me when I'm at the door. But I just constantly have this habit of looking at my energy level, kind of like managing your phone level.
(30:59):
You don't want to let your phone battery die. So that has helped me tremendously. So when I'm at, like, 30% battery level, I don't go out and meet people. When I'm at, like, 50% energy level, I can, but I always have to make sure that I have enough energy left for my children when I'm home. By usually, like, 05:00 p.m. I'm usually at around 40% by the time I get home. So I can still work out, I can still study a little bit, I can still play with them, and when I hit 0%, I just go to bed.
Monica H. Kang (31:38):
Well, I'm glad you are. Well, and on the health confession side, I haven't actually shared this on air, so it might be the first time for me, too, but I've had shingles a few years ago, so that was a scary moment.
Hyunwoo Sun (31:48):
Where did you have on the side of my that must have hurt your back so much.
Monica H. Kang (31:54):
So I couldn't. Like, sitting was pain, and, like, I didn't know what it was, and so I didn't know were gonna have a shingles confession time today.
Hyunwoo Sun (32:02):
Wow. Why couldn't it have been on my hand or something.
Monica H. Kang (32:08):
It was so painful, and I'm glad it's past tense. I'm sorry. Yeah. But in a way, it was probably your body, as you were saying, responding like, okay, you're not listening to me. We had this important childbirth moment, too, and you haven't known. Let me communicate in a different way. So I'm glad now you're healthy and well, but I just wanted to bring that up to also normalize that. I think we don't talk enough about how often, like, health fear happens, I think, as busy professionals and driven professionals. And so thank you for normalizing and sharing that and letting me also accidentally confessing and sharing, too.
Hyunwoo Sun (32:44):
Yeah. It is a normal thing, right? It is normal for people to fall ill sometimes, and you need to take care of your health. I think I'm healthier now than maybe I was four years ago. Three, four years ago. Because there are ups and downs. You don't have shingles once, and then you suddenly realize what you need to do for your health. You have to. Yeah. And then sometimes you are less careful than before, and then your health goes down a little bit. Mine did, you know, three, four years ago, so I started working out more. I had knee pain. Now it's gone. I had shoulder pain. Now it's gone. So I can do better flips and tricks than four years ago.
Monica H. Kang (33:28):
That's amazing. And on a similar note, just to piggyback on the energy and time management. I know, building on that theme, when we caught up, we spoke a lot about also how you want to continue to channel that mindset for your next generation, for your two children. And I was really inspired how you wanted to make sure, especially even in Korea, not to adamantly be have them part of the Hagwon culture. And appreciating the stories you shared about just being okay, being bored. And I think this ties very much to the principle, is how you're teaching Korean. My friends who learn Korean, one of the things they thank you in the way you teach is just, like, to the point, as you say, like, just simply practice.
(34:07):
Like, just dedicate time offline and practice instead of, like, multitasking, which is a skill that you're also wanting to help teach your kids. And I'm curious on the spirit of, like, the bigger education theme that you do care, what's something that you wish to do more, even maybe for your children, but also, like, what we did more for our youth education.
Hyunwoo Sun (34:28):
Yeah. It's a very big domain of education, or I guess mentorship. So I don't claim to know more than I do, but I do try personally to just encourage my kids to just have fun and not worry too much about having to study for this college entrance exam, even from now. Because many young children in Korea, they are like constantly going to various hagwons private institutes to prepare for what? You know, maybe it worked. The strategy worked in the past. I think it did. But studying for twelve years for this one exam or a couple of exams so that they can go to this prestigious college. So that they can do what? To maybe be hired by a large corporation, that's the goal of many people. But then this will not last. This will change. Things will change.
(35:32):
And especially with the super low birth rate in Korea at 0.7, it will be 0.6 soon. I think by the time these children who are in kindergarten now grow up, there will be only like 40 million people or something, as opposed to 55 million now. And then universities will have higher times recruiting students. And so it'll be easier to get into universities, even including these big name colleges, right? So why spend all the time they have after school going to ten different hagwons? Which they do for real? Like, ten year olds attend ten different hagwons. A friend of mine actually sends his kid to this jump rope school, Chulomki Hagwon. I didn't even know that there was a Chulomki Hagwon.
Monica H. Kang (36:28):
What would you learn?
Hyunwoo Sun (36:29):
I mean, you learned lumpy, but wow. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So why would I do that? I thought about it. My wife and I had conversations about it. So we only have our children do sports, and then that's pretty much it. They're always at home. They're in the middle of their winter vacation right now. So as I'm working here in the office, they're actually at home. I don't know what they're doing, but they're just having fun. They're either having fun or bored, which is good. So I just buy them a lot of books, and we play a lot of video games together when I'm home, not by themselves too much. So that's, I think, really necessary. And for adults, too.
(37:16):
Going back to talk to me in Korean, I built the curriculum around more audio lessons and ebooks, mainly because that's how I learned in the most effective way. But I'm glad we did, because if you think about all the language learning apps, I mean, there are some great apps, including Duolingo, Busu. These apps are great, I think. I don't have anything against them, but I've never met anyone saying, hey, I can speak korean thanks to Duolingo. I can speak korean thanks to this vocabulary quiz app that tests my short term memory abilities. But I have met thousands of people who tell me that they speak korean thanks to talk to me in Korean, which is usually long form. Our lessons are bite sized in comparison to these 1 hour college lessons, but they are still long form. Ten minutes, 20 minutes at a time.
(38:14):
They have to listen to something. They have to actually study with a certain chapter. And if you think about a lot of young people, when was the last time they sat down in a coffee shop, not with their phone, but with a book open in front of them, actually underlining and writing down in the pages and thinking, letting their brains actually work. And language learning is serious work. It's going to open so many doors for you. It's going to develop your brain in so many good ways. But it is at the same time serious work. You cannot be eating popcorn and expect to have a really buff body. You have to lift weights, which is serious work. Our curriculum at talk to me in Korean is kind of like the serious work version, right? We do have short form content.
(39:05):
We do make fun videos. But eventually when they want to sit down and study, they have to have these long form moments, long term focused concentrations sessions. So I want to do something about it to help young children and adults actually sit down and study or drive around and listen to something and learn something. So podcasts, good books, video courses that are engaging enough for people to watch for a long time for more than 1 minute are going to be really helpful.
Monica H. Kang (39:44):
I think it's really powerful, and I love how you've found a way to kind of execute that in a different way, to empower those who want to learn and inspire them that they can. I want to do a few rapid fire questions about Korea and all about Korea. So tell me what comes to mind when I ask these questions. Favorite korean food.
Hyunwoo Sun (40:08):
Oh, rapid, right. I don't have a favorite korean food.
Monica H. Kang (40:12):
Okay. Favorite korean food today.
Hyunwoo Sun (40:14):
Today. Okay. Kimbap.
Monica H. Kang (40:17):
Why?
Hyunwoo Sun (40:18):
Because it's convenient to get.
Monica H. Kang (40:20):
Do you have a particular kimbap flavor?
Hyunwoo Sun (40:24):
Mmm, that's always good.
Monica H. Kang (40:26):
Okay. Favorite korean word and why.
Hyunwoo Sun (40:32):
And is something that everybody can say to anyone. Like korean people don't talk to strangers very often, but they do say so I think it's not a word, but it's my favorite phrase in the korean language.
Monica H. Kang (40:46):
And saying hello, it's a special one. Since we are speaking about language, your favorite korean slang.
Hyunwoo Sun (40:53):
Oh, I'm not ready for this. I don't have favorites. So my favorite korean slang or slang.
Monica H. Kang (41:01):
That'S coming to mind that you think others should know. We can do that too.
Hyunwoo Sun (41:05):
Yeah. I don't speak slang, but let me just look at the last message that I exchanged with my son, and maybe. Maybe there will be a slang expression that he used. He says quite often, whenever I do something, whenever I do a flip in the gym, or whenever I show him a cool video, he says, tebak te bak is amazing. But it's funny because it comes from this original meaning of a large gourd. You know what a gourd is? So gourd. It's. Yeah.
Monica H. Kang (41:38):
Anyway, what about favorite korean idiom?
Hyunwoo Sun (41:41):
Favorite korean idiom, I would say, like to grab at your ankle. So like, your stereotypical ideas of certain things, your, like, past mistakes are kind of grabbing you by the ankle so that you can't, you know, go forward. One of my favorite korean idioms.
Monica H. Kang (42:02):
Gotta look out for all your past. Thanks. Holding on to you, somebody who wants to visit Korea and learn more about Korea. What's at least one place they should absolutely visit?
Hyunwoo Sun (42:11):
Or do I think they should visit either Hongdae or Gangnam, at least for those places? Maybe both, if you can. Hongdae is like really bustling with young people and a lot of street food. I still see a lot of street food vendors, and Gangnam is like the most luxurious area. Like most, I guess, city area in Seoul. So visit those two places, Hongdae and Gangnam.
Monica H. Kang (42:38):
And I know you travel quite a bit, both international, domestically. Has there been place somewhere around the world that you were surprised you had good korean food that was not in Korea, or like, learning about Korea that was outside that you can share?
Hyunwoo Sun (42:53):
I was surprised that in China, I found some really good korean food, although it was really like the same price as in Korea, so overpriced for their local standards. And I think a lot of countries, a lot of cities around the world are having more and more k towns building up. So I'm actually looking forward to visiting more k towns. It's kind of like korean people usually try to avoid visiting k towns when they go overseas because why would they go to those places? But I want to see the difference between Korea now and k town because it seems like Korea towns around the world seem to conserve korean culture a little more conservatively, so I want to see the difference.
Monica H. Kang (43:47):
And there's a reason why we still also have La Kairbi even in Korea, right? So they are rebranding that comes back even to Korea, which is a good point. What's a fun fact or something that you like about korean culture and history that you like to share with others?
Hyunwoo Sun (44:05):
So modern history, korean people have gone through so many different changes for the past 70 years after the war. So people are quick at adapting to new situations, and that's agility and that's resilience. So I think that's great. And if you think about other countries that were in the same economic condition, that are still in the same economic condition that Korea was in the fifties, we've come a long way. So I think that's is one aspect of the korean culture that you can kind of dip into and learn about.
Monica H. Kang (44:44):
And what's also something that you wish people understood better about Korea that you think is often still misunderstood or not fully represented?
Hyunwoo Sun (44:54):
I think not one aspect of the korean culture, but I think you can only really see korean culture by learning to speak the language. There's very little still even now, very little translation, very little like introduction in other languages that are done about Korea. If you only learn about Korea through English or other languages, you're only scratching the surface. So I really hope more and more people learn Korean. And if it happens to be that if your personality, your like given traits, and the traits of many korean people actually match, Korea might be a really good place for you to live. And the korean population will go down eventually, and Korea will need more and more people living in it in the future.
(45:48):
So I hope more and more people will learn to speak Korean, at least at the intermediate level, and then they will know more about Korea. That is really difficult to describe in other languages.
Monica H. Kang (46:02):
And hey, you have the textbooks and how to do that, so.
Hyunwoo Sun (46:06):
Exactly.
Monica H. Kang (46:07):
You don't have to go far in the how in the process and how you want to learn Korean. Well, thank you so much. We dove into so many different aspects. I'm so grateful, Hyuno. For those who want to connect with you and learn more about you and your work, what's the best way they can reach to you?
Hyunwoo Sun (46:22):
You can come to our website, talktimeincorean.com. Or if you're on YouTube, you can go to YouTube.com, talktomeincorean Instagram. Talk to me in Korean. So just type talk to me in Korean, anywhere you are. I'm also on LinkedIn. You can also reach out to me personally as well. So, yeah, I'm hoping to connect with more people in the future.
Monica H. Kang (46:42):
Sounds great. Well, thank you so much for your continued work and dedication and building more bridges. And so we look forward to help making a little contribution to the building bridge and help sharing this with the world. So thank you so much for joining us today.
Hyunwoo Sun (46:56):
Thank you for having me on today.
Monica H. Kang (46:58):
And folks, we'll see you later with another story.
See you later. So now that we're ready to dive into some korean language, I think you are ready to expand your korean language exposure. That's right, K drama. Well, you might already be doing a bit of it. The K dramas, the K music and all of that, the K movies, all the awards that they recently got. But have you noticed how there are so many stories that you relate to even though its all in a different language in Korean? Its not a coincidence. And its something that a friend of mine whos a therapist have noticed consistently and wanted to help channel that into a bigger conversation of mental health.
(47:45):
So next week were going to invite her to share a little bit more how she uses kids kdrama to talk about something bigger, such as mental health and why you would want to fall in love with kdrama. Join us next week and we'll dive right into it. I'm your host, Monica Kang, and you're listening to dear workplace. Have a great one. See you next week. Thanks again for joining us. This is your host, Monica Kang at Dear Workplace. And I'm so glad you are here. Shout out to audio engineering and producing by Sam Lehmart, audio Engineering assistant by Ravi Lad, website and marketing support by Kree Pandey, graphic support by Lea Orsini, Christine Eribal, and original music by InnovatorsBox Studios and writing, interviewing, podcasting, directing, and all that jazz by me, Monica Kang.
(48:23):
Shout out to audio engineering and producing by Sam Lamer, audio Engineering assistant by Ravi Ladd, website and marketing support by Cree Pandey, graphic support by Leah Orsini, Christine Eribal, and original music by Innovators Box Studios and writing, interviewing, podcasting, directing, and all that jazz by me, Monica King. Share us your feedback and suggestions as we continue to look to improve and answer the questions that you have about the workplace. Have a great day and I'll see you soon.
Talk to me in Korean, please. It's often an expression that many foreigners who are learning Korean might notice. They want to say when they're in Korea because a lot of people unconsciously end up speaking English in wanting to help the foreigners navigate the country or the city. But as you might have guessed, they also want to learn Korean and it's not as helpful when they start spending speaking in English and dont let them a chance to practice their Korean. So it was the very pain point that my friend today talked to me in Korea.,TTMIK, founder and CEO Hyunwon Sun have noticed as he wanted to help his friends and people who were visiting Korea who wanted to learn Korean today. Talk to me in Korean is one of the most popular korean language educational services, which providing 1.4 million registered users across 190 countries.
(01:04):
Another way of saying it, if you were learning Caribbean, you probably have come across their workbook, their exercises, YouTube, Instagram, podcasts and many more. He started in 2009 and hoped to start first with a community gathering of geez, how do I bring people who want to learn Korean into now rethinking how we do korean language studies? Overall, it's incredible, and even more so how his humbling journey has started from in a language exchange club back in 2008 to his podcast in 2009. They've definitely learned a lot and most importantly, grown and rethought how korean language teaching could be. And one fun surprise, hes actually never lived abroad and perhaps so it inspired him as he think about how he learned English, to think about how others might be learning Korean to make it fun, practical, but enjoyable.
(02:05):
So meet my friend Hyunwon who's going to share what its like to learn Korean and what you can do to learn Korean. You might want to take some notes in how you can practice right here, right now.
Welcome back to Dear Webpage. I'm very excited today to have Hyunwon Sun and we're going to dive into all about korean language because hey, like if you do want to learn about a new culture, you might want to learn about how to speak the language. And Hyunwon has been thinking very much about it in the space in multiple languages, but especially Korean as we dive in. So Hyunwon, welcome to the show. First, I am very curious. How in the world did you get passionate about language stuff in linguistics as a career in the first place?
Hyunwoo Sun (02:49):
First of all, hello and welcome to everyone. I was born and raised in Korea in this city. It's not a small city, it has over a million people living in it currently, but I was born in the city of Gwangju, and the first time I saw the dots before I started connecting them, was when I saw that my species style, which turned out to be my local dialect, and the way people spoke on tv were a little bit different. So that's when I first saw the dots, right? So I wanted to connect them. So I was, I think, around ten years old when I realized this. And also I realized that my relatives who were living in Busan, they all also spoke a different kind of dialect, which was the Busan dialect.
(03:37):
So I was kind of toying with the idea of connecting these three dots as a ten year old in Korea. So by eleven or twelve years of age, I was speaking fluently between the Gwangju dialect and the Busan dialect, which can be a little bit different. So that was that. And then when I moved to Seoul to attend college, Korea University, I was actually able to interact with the native speaker, so to speak, of the Seoul dialect. And, yeah, that's when I saw the beauty and the joy of actually switching language switching within the korean language. And also, by coincidence, I got some interest. I found some interest in English as a high schooler. Because high school life was really stressful, and I wanted an outlet or some ways to vent my stress on something else.
(04:34):
So I started studying English, and I found it to be really interesting and fun, and I saw some progress. So I studied really hard. That's the beginning of all my interests in terms of languages.
Monica H. Kang (04:47):
Love it. Especially with a local, different korean dialect. I mean, it's so true, because in most languages, there's multiple dialects. For those who are hearing about Korean for the first time, would you be okay if you could do a real time demo of the Busan, gwangju, and like, seoulmal, how they're slightly different of one or two words, so I'm not.
Hyunwoo Sun (05:06):
Really good at Busan dialect anymore. But for example, as a Gwangju person, I would say Odinya. Odinya to a friend of mine or to my sisters, and then my Busan relatives would say Odiko. The intonation is very different. And then a soul version of that would be Odiya. So I don't think anything is better than the other, but it's just different. So I thought it was really interesting. So that's when I realized for the first time the existence of various accents and various languages. In this world, not everybody speaks in the same tongue.
Monica H. Kang (05:45):
Yeah. And for those who didn't know what Odia, Odiku, and all of that means, it means where are you? Or where are you heading so that, I think is so meaningful? And that was a really powerful example. I think even Koreans or non Koreans can distinctively tell the difference. But I do want to make sure we highlight because it's a whole other thing to say. Hey, I think it's so cool that these language differences are noticeable that, like, that's interesting, but it's a whole other thing to build a career out of it, which you have done and continue to help. Now, thousands and thousands of people, millions around the world, learn Korean in a friendly, fun, creative way. We're going to get there. But before that, there's a humbling journey in how you all started.
(06:25):
I heard that back in 2000, 2008, you started with a language exchange club and also a podcast. Why did you wanted to do that and why did you want to start that? Tell me a little bit more.
Hyunwoo Sun (06:36):
So, going back a little further, I've always been somebody who likes to solve problems one at a time. I don't set out building big dreams or visions or plans for the next ten years or 20 years. Maybe that's the better way to do it in terms of building large businesses. But when I was younger, I've always been fascinated by solving or being able to solve one problem at a time. And then once you solve this problem, that's right ahead of you see another set of problems that you didn't see before because your view was blocked by the previous problem. So the first problem that I wanted to solve was the fact that I didn't speak English in high school. So I wanted to solve that. And I did solve it by studying for three, four years really diligently.
(07:27):
And then once I did that, I saw by coincidence on the university campus, some really young middle school, high school boys breakdancing on the floor, like secretly hidden from the security guards and from the security cameras. So they were there training, but it just looked fantastic to me. They were spinning on their heads, they were doing flips. So I was like, I went up to them and said, I've never seen anyone do that in real life. I've never imagined the human body could do that. Can you teach me? And then they said, oh, I will teach you, but can you also let us train here in exchange? Because we're not university students who attend here. So were like, helping each other. We were training together, and whenever the security guard came along, I said, oh, we go here, right?
(08:16):
And I would show them my hak seng jung like student identity card. And that was that. So I started breakdancing. And the first problem was solved. You know, I was able to break dance. I was able to do head spins and windmills and flips. But then the next problem came around, which was that I wanted to train better in a smart way. So I started recording myself and saw that my legs were not kicking high enough or fast enough. I was kind of monitoring myself, but then I kept losing the footage because the hard drives back then, you know, those hard drives that actually had motors inside, kept failing. So that was the problem. And I wanted to solve that by storing the footage on the Internet. The website that I found, this random website called YouTube.com.
Monica H. Kang (09:07):
Wow.
Hyunwoo Sun (09:09):
Had this feature where I could upload videos and I could watch them later on. Right? This was before YouTube's Google days, and I posted my breakdance videos thinking that I would be the only one watching them. But then somehow I got email notifications of comments from other people, from other countries. So that is how I started connecting with people in other parts of the world in 2006 or seven, I think. And then as the comments kept coming in, they were asking for information about Korea. Hey, you seem to be a korean breakdancer. B boys, can you film more videos about Korea? So I was like, okay, that's interesting. So I solved that problem, too. And then I became more interested in connecting with other people because now I had been doing breakdancing for like, seven, eight years.
(10:08):
So I got my fair share of joy out of it. So I was like, okay, fine. I'm not going to be a professional breakdancer. So how am I going to solve this problem, which is people wanting to know more about Korea and me wanting to show more of Korea. And I didn't have enough money to go overseas to study. Like, 2006, I was 27 in korean age, and then I hadn't been out of the country. I was thinking my options, and the only way I could interact with people from other countries was to create a meetup, language exchange meetup. Something that I could do without any money. I just walked up to this coffee shop that looked spacious enough and asked the owner, can I bring 50 people every Monday at 07:00 p.m.
(10:54):
Your business might not be busy by then because you're a coffee shop. Can I just bring 50 people every Monday evening and have them all order one drink? And they were happy about it. And eventually we had to find a bigger place, like every three months or four months, because more and more people kept coming. Yeah, that's how I started the language exchange. So I didn't have this amazing vision in me one day, it was all just linear progress. I saw one thing I did that did something, and then to fix it, and then something else presented itself to me. So I also worked on that next challenge.
Monica H. Kang (11:41):
You are a true problem solver indeed. I think it's so inspiring to hear, you know, not only when you did come from those moments of with a video when you realize that, wait, it's actually being uploaded in the world. Like, people, I think some people might have freaked out and, like, just taken that video, but instead you're like, oh, okay, I will respond and engage, which I think is part of your strength. And what's so inspiring that you continue to fuel that energy and create a community. Like, even starting with that first invitation, when the other younger students were like, hey, can you give me the permission to break dance here? You're creating that space. And so your space creating skill continue to evolve.
(12:18):
And I think, tell me also, like, because podcast was another thing that you started very early on when it wasn't even something that people knew what podcast was, how did you first learn about it and start?
Hyunwoo Sun (12:28):
So, in terms of podcasting, that was also interesting because I was training in my university, and then because there were global students, international students coming to Korea University as well. Some of them were naturally breakdancers, and they wanted to find other break dancers to hang out with. And I met this australian breakdancer who was always listening to something, and I thought he was listening to breakdance music to kind of do image training and then think of some moves that he could work on. But then it turned out that he was listening to these things called podcasts. And he said that this podcast thing is something new that people can listen to.
(13:16):
You listen to all the episodes, and you hook your device to your computer, and all the listened episodes are automatically deleted, and all the new episodes will be downloaded onto your computer, and then it'll be like, really cleverly syncing everything. So I was fascinated. So I started looking around, and then I saw a bunch of. I was already interested in languages by then, and I saw a lot of language teaching podcasts, and I started listening to maybe, like, ten of them. And then the idea of making something for the korean language wasn't my own to begin with, but one of the podcasts mentioned that, hey, we are also going to launch a korean podcast. So I was actually traveling for work in China.
(14:05):
And then I still remember my surprise and also frustration because given all the surrounding facts, like the fact that I was fascinated by gadgets, early adopter by nature, the fact that I was able to make websites, I just was interested. So I studied them, considering everything. I should have been the first person in the world to announce that I was going to make a korean language teaching podcast. But then this other guy that I didn't even know was announcing on his japanese teaching podcast that he was going to also launch a korean language podcast. So the next natural thing to do was to email him, hey, you cannot start without me. So I was in China, so they did start without me, but I emailed them. Hey, can I work with you guys on some content?
(14:56):
Because I have some really good ideas, some strong ideas as to how the korean language should be taught. I had been thinking about the korean language. I had been speaking it for my entire life. So yeah, we did work on some content together and it was fun. But after a while I was like, I need to start something on my own. Because working part time, 2 hours a day for an american company that was in Japan whose focus was not korean but other languages, I was like, no, this cannot grow bigger. So yeah, I told them that I'm going to start something on my own. They gave me their blessings and then they started talking to me in Korean, just incorporating all my ideas that I had been building up to that moment. And this was in 2000, 915 years ago.
Monica H. Kang (15:50):
Wow, what a journey and humble beginning. I'm also like reflecting on how crisp and detailed your able to look back at all those moments, which is such a key aspect and attribution to know that we never know what are the details that make a difference. And I think you're sharing those and reflection is powerful. Since then I know you have launched, continue to build and create many different ways how people can learn Korean. And one of the things I also appreciate is how you've continued to as you in your personal mantra of being an early adopter of finding new ways how language learning can be done to.
(16:27):
I'm curious, kind of taking a quick scan back since then, in the past 1015 years of building talk to me in Korean and making korean language more fun and accessible, what are perhaps like those challenges and barriers that you've had to go through as you continue to venture out new ways of teaching and helping people learn Korean?
Hyunwoo Sun (16:47):
Well, this has been a challenge, but at the same time a blessing I think, because I've always been sort of a bridge between two worlds. As a local native korean person who grew up to eventually speak English, another language, without living overseas. And also the timing too. I was born in 1980 and by the time I went to college, it was 1999. And back then, the only kind of people, like a small group of people who could speak another language were people who had lived overseas. And then whenever I said something in English in public, or whenever I was having a conversation with somebody in English, everybody assumed that I was a kupo. I was a Korean American or something. So that was a challenge, but also an opportunity for me to present myself.
(17:43):
Hey, I didn't have to live overseas, which would have been nice, but I just didn't have enough money to go overseas or study. So I did this. So you can do that too. If you want to learn to speak another language, you can do what I did. So I wrote my first book in my first year in university. I just got contacted by this university. First, I won this national contest for high school students for their English skills, and I happened to win the first place. So that got out in some news articles. And then the publishing companies, like, saw that news article, and some of them suggested that I published a book. So I got together with a few people who were also talented in learning languages, who were about my age, and we published a book together.
(18:31):
So I became immediately an official bridge between korean people who didn't speak English and the rest of the world, right? So that was my beginning as a bridge. And then that continued on when I started. Talk to me in Korean, because I was also a bridge between. When you look at the academia, all the professors who have studied for a really long time to become a professor, they have their knowledge and they have their experience. And I was somebody who didn't even major in korean language education, who didn't even have this official license to teach the korean language, who just started this podcast on my own, this YouTube channel on my own. We now have 1.7 million YouTube subscribers. But back then, even fifty k, one hundred K YouTube subscribers was also a big deal back then.
(19:30):
So when people who were in the academia looked at me, I was a strange weirdo who this young guy who started doing his own project without the required credentials. And now I'm also looking at my fubes who are younger than me, right? Like younger content creators who probably started what they're doing because they saw Dokti Min Korean growing. And maybe they saw I'm the first generation, they're the second generation. Maybe they saw the 1.5, you know, the middle generation who were also doing well. So the challenge has always been my opportunity too. People not understanding what my job is, people not understanding who I am, people not understanding why I think I'm qualified to do this. But now I don't have to prove that anymore because we have 46 beautifully designed and published books distributed worldwide.
(20:33):
And if you go to any bookstore in Korea that sells korean language teaching books, you see our amazing, beautiful designs and all the rest that don't stand out. I believe that was the big challenge. People not understanding who I am, why I am doing this. Where did they come from? Right? So I've always been kind of in the middle.
Monica H. Kang (20:59):
I think the middle is the perfect way. How you build bridges and connect those different dots. And so appreciate Hyun for you doing so, and continuing to set those new parameters and opportunities of bridges where that wasn't possible. A little quick kind of follow up. So talk to me in Korean. How did you even think of the name of that? What was the origin story and how it came together?
Hyunwoo Sun (21:21):
I actually enjoy coming up with names for things, so I named both my kids myself. I just like naming things. And the idea for talking to me Korean was actually based on the frustration that my multiple friends expressed to me. Because my first international friends, they were in Korea in 1999 when I was a freshman in university. And then it was still new to the korean general public that a foreign person studied in Korea and wanted to actually speak Korean. So it's still there in Korea, but the atmosphere of everybody thinking that, okay, that foreigner must not want to really speak Korean, so I'm going to just practice my English with them, or I'm just going to speak English for them. So everybody was frustrated, hey, I want to learn Korean while I'm here. But everybody just speaks to me in English.
(22:29):
Their frustration was that so they wanted to tell korean people to please talk to them in Korean, right? So I remembered that having those conversations with my first international friends, and about ten years later, when I wanted to launch my brand, it was very natural for me to name it, hey, talk to me in Korean. I also imagined we don't sell merch now. Imagined a learner wearing a t shirt that said, talk to me in Korean as our logo or slogan, which would fit perfectly, right? I know how to speak Korean, so talk to me in that language.
Monica H. Kang (23:04):
So, yeah, I think we need to have that t shirt. Cause I think folks would want to say, please do talk to me in Korean. And that's so cool. And I still remember, I mean, as I mentioned when we met last time, that I had a chance to do some korean tutoring. Grew up bilingual myself as well. So again, on the related gamut of having had formal training, but just speaking the language. I've had a chance to kind of help Korean learning as a second language, like, people who are learning Korean, not ESL, right? Not English as a second language, but people who are learning Korean. And it was just really fun to learn about how you break down the Kyungyunti goods and the aya oya and then, like, just helping them dive into it.
(23:47):
And one of the things I think I've always found inspiring is just the pure passion and curiosity, as you have pointed out, and how the global space has been and wanting to learn more. You've seen the early wave. We're seeing many more. How does it feel now? You know, you've been doing also your business in korean language for a very long time now to see where the world is about Korea, how they think about Korea, understand Korea, understand about korean language. Like, I feel like there's even more none ethnic Koreans who speak better Koreans than Kyopo sometimes. And it's like, tell me a little bit more how you feel when you think about where things are now.
Hyunwoo Sun (24:26):
I think it's definitely really interesting that so much interest is pouring down onto the korean language because it's not a very natural phenomenon, if you think about it, when so many people around the world are studying a language that is so isolated from the other languages. And the korean language has been spoken mainly by the korean people, only by the korean people for such a long time that it didn't go through the same simplification process that English went through, mainly because it was spoken by so many, you know, diverse groups of people all around the world. And the Spanish also became a little more simpler over time, Chinese as well. But the korean language did go through some simplification, but not as much as the other languages has.
(25:19):
So this language has always been very isolated and very rich in idioms and proverbs and cultural reference based crazy slang expressions that are so difficult to decipher at first. So it's a really extremely difficult language. And if you think about the actual learning aspect of it, like, for example, just to give one example, the particles that are attached to the end of nouns, they are very powerful, and they are very difficult for learners to understand. So they learners, they study these particles for hundreds of hours. But in reality, although they are very powerful, native speakers just drop them all the time because they completely understand how they work. They don't really even need to use them, but they know what particle is exactly going to be there while they're driving, so they're imagining it there. So it's that isolated.
(26:24):
I think it's a really fascinating and interesting, maybe even strange phenomenon that so many people are learning Korean. And it's all thanks to two factors, I think, and one is content, and two is korean people who have been interacting with people from other cultural backgrounds. Because if the content, everybody knows the story, but if every korean person who has interacted with people in other countries has been a jerk to them, I don't think as many people would be learning Korean as they are now. So many people attribute many of our learners, at least people that I have spoken to, they have said that the first interactions gave them good impressions, and therefore, they started thinking nicely of korean people in general. So that did help them stay more motivated in learning this language.
Monica H. Kang (27:30):
That's a really powerful reminder that at the end of the day, it really centers around the people. And you've kind of built on both. You've continued to build those communities, you've contributed to building those ecosystems, as well as producing content constantly with all these textbooks and resources, that continues to come out in many different creative ways. The other thing, of course, as a leadership expert, is like, how in the world do you manage your time and energy? Because there's, like, a lot on your hand on top of also being a father. And I heard that you're continuing to do your breakdancing, if I'm correct. So you could be with your hobby, your travels, your family. You know, you just have a global demand interest in korean language. So that's a very high tolerance. And you have your own team in Korea as well.
(28:14):
So what's been your tip and trick of how to manage your time and energy?
Hyunwoo Sun (28:19):
So maybe about ten years ago, I came across this concept of energy management. You know, it's a very fairly widely known concept nowadays, but back then, it was a novel concept to me. Time management, energy management, they are to be understood completely differently. Right? I was more of this time management guy. I was grinding too much. I still remember vividly, my wife remembers vividly that I was working. So my firstborn child was born exactly eleven years ago. And then I was working three minutes until the moment he was born. And then, you know, the nurse would hand deliver him to me. I was, like, working in the lounge of the hospital, and then he showed me the baby, and then they took him away to wash him, and then he would be with me in about a couple of hours.
(29:17):
So I saw him cried a little bit, and then I went back to work on my laptop. So I was that busy on the day we had c section. We had to have c section for various reasons. So I knew the day that were having our child, it wasn't even a surprise. So it was scheduled as our child birthday, but then I was still working. I was that busy. And then something bad happened because I got shingles on my face. Like, that was two months after the baby was born, and I think a few months after that, and that was the biggest pain, the physical pain that I experienced in my life. And I looked it up, and it actually turns out to be one of the biggest pains you can experience. And I had it on my face.
(30:08):
It meant that all the pain sensors on this side of my head were turned on to the maximum. So I couldn't even breathe without pain. I couldn't, you know, if I coughed, it would be like, you know, crazy. So I can't even describe it. So that was big scare. I knew it only lasted usually a week, and it went away. I'm completely fine, of course, now. But that just was a warning sign to me. So I started kind of looking into it, and I saw this concept of energy management, and now, like you said, I do a lot. I have my two boys, super energetic at home, always running to me when I'm at the door. But I just constantly have this habit of looking at my energy level, kind of like managing your phone level.
(30:59):
You don't want to let your phone battery die. So that has helped me tremendously. So when I'm at, like, 30% battery level, I don't go out and meet people. When I'm at, like, 50% energy level, I can, but I always have to make sure that I have enough energy left for my children when I'm home. By usually, like, 05:00 p.m. I'm usually at around 40% by the time I get home. So I can still work out, I can still study a little bit, I can still play with them, and when I hit 0%, I just go to bed.
Monica H. Kang (31:38):
Well, I'm glad you are. Well, and on the health confession side, I haven't actually shared this on air, so it might be the first time for me, too, but I've had shingles a few years ago, so that was a scary moment.
Hyunwoo Sun (31:48):
Where did you have on the side of my that must have hurt your back so much.
Monica H. Kang (31:54):
So I couldn't. Like, sitting was pain, and, like, I didn't know what it was, and so I didn't know were gonna have a shingles confession time today.
Hyunwoo Sun (32:02):
Wow. Why couldn't it have been on my hand or something.
Monica H. Kang (32:08):
It was so painful, and I'm glad it's past tense. I'm sorry. Yeah. But in a way, it was probably your body, as you were saying, responding like, okay, you're not listening to me. We had this important childbirth moment, too, and you haven't known. Let me communicate in a different way. So I'm glad now you're healthy and well, but I just wanted to bring that up to also normalize that. I think we don't talk enough about how often, like, health fear happens, I think, as busy professionals and driven professionals. And so thank you for normalizing and sharing that and letting me also accidentally confessing and sharing, too.
Hyunwoo Sun (32:44):
Yeah. It is a normal thing, right? It is normal for people to fall ill sometimes, and you need to take care of your health. I think I'm healthier now than maybe I was four years ago. Three, four years ago. Because there are ups and downs. You don't have shingles once, and then you suddenly realize what you need to do for your health. You have to. Yeah. And then sometimes you are less careful than before, and then your health goes down a little bit. Mine did, you know, three, four years ago, so I started working out more. I had knee pain. Now it's gone. I had shoulder pain. Now it's gone. So I can do better flips and tricks than four years ago.
Monica H. Kang (33:28):
That's amazing. And on a similar note, just to piggyback on the energy and time management. I know, building on that theme, when we caught up, we spoke a lot about also how you want to continue to channel that mindset for your next generation, for your two children. And I was really inspired how you wanted to make sure, especially even in Korea, not to adamantly be have them part of the Hagwon culture. And appreciating the stories you shared about just being okay, being bored. And I think this ties very much to the principle, is how you're teaching Korean. My friends who learn Korean, one of the things they thank you in the way you teach is just, like, to the point, as you say, like, just simply practice.
(34:07):
Like, just dedicate time offline and practice instead of, like, multitasking, which is a skill that you're also wanting to help teach your kids. And I'm curious on the spirit of, like, the bigger education theme that you do care, what's something that you wish to do more, even maybe for your children, but also, like, what we did more for our youth education.
Hyunwoo Sun (34:28):
Yeah. It's a very big domain of education, or I guess mentorship. So I don't claim to know more than I do, but I do try personally to just encourage my kids to just have fun and not worry too much about having to study for this college entrance exam, even from now. Because many young children in Korea, they are like constantly going to various hagwons private institutes to prepare for what? You know, maybe it worked. The strategy worked in the past. I think it did. But studying for twelve years for this one exam or a couple of exams so that they can go to this prestigious college. So that they can do what? To maybe be hired by a large corporation, that's the goal of many people. But then this will not last. This will change. Things will change.
(35:32):
And especially with the super low birth rate in Korea at 0.7, it will be 0.6 soon. I think by the time these children who are in kindergarten now grow up, there will be only like 40 million people or something, as opposed to 55 million now. And then universities will have higher times recruiting students. And so it'll be easier to get into universities, even including these big name colleges, right? So why spend all the time they have after school going to ten different hagwons? Which they do for real? Like, ten year olds attend ten different hagwons. A friend of mine actually sends his kid to this jump rope school, Chulomki Hagwon. I didn't even know that there was a Chulomki Hagwon.
Monica H. Kang (36:28):
What would you learn?
Hyunwoo Sun (36:29):
I mean, you learned lumpy, but wow. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So why would I do that? I thought about it. My wife and I had conversations about it. So we only have our children do sports, and then that's pretty much it. They're always at home. They're in the middle of their winter vacation right now. So as I'm working here in the office, they're actually at home. I don't know what they're doing, but they're just having fun. They're either having fun or bored, which is good. So I just buy them a lot of books, and we play a lot of video games together when I'm home, not by themselves too much. So that's, I think, really necessary. And for adults, too.
(37:16):
Going back to talk to me in Korean, I built the curriculum around more audio lessons and ebooks, mainly because that's how I learned in the most effective way. But I'm glad we did, because if you think about all the language learning apps, I mean, there are some great apps, including Duolingo, Busu. These apps are great, I think. I don't have anything against them, but I've never met anyone saying, hey, I can speak korean thanks to Duolingo. I can speak korean thanks to this vocabulary quiz app that tests my short term memory abilities. But I have met thousands of people who tell me that they speak korean thanks to talk to me in Korean, which is usually long form. Our lessons are bite sized in comparison to these 1 hour college lessons, but they are still long form. Ten minutes, 20 minutes at a time.
(38:14):
They have to listen to something. They have to actually study with a certain chapter. And if you think about a lot of young people, when was the last time they sat down in a coffee shop, not with their phone, but with a book open in front of them, actually underlining and writing down in the pages and thinking, letting their brains actually work. And language learning is serious work. It's going to open so many doors for you. It's going to develop your brain in so many good ways. But it is at the same time serious work. You cannot be eating popcorn and expect to have a really buff body. You have to lift weights, which is serious work. Our curriculum at talk to me in Korean is kind of like the serious work version, right? We do have short form content.
(39:05):
We do make fun videos. But eventually when they want to sit down and study, they have to have these long form moments, long term focused concentrations sessions. So I want to do something about it to help young children and adults actually sit down and study or drive around and listen to something and learn something. So podcasts, good books, video courses that are engaging enough for people to watch for a long time for more than 1 minute are going to be really helpful.
Monica H. Kang (39:44):
I think it's really powerful, and I love how you've found a way to kind of execute that in a different way, to empower those who want to learn and inspire them that they can. I want to do a few rapid fire questions about Korea and all about Korea. So tell me what comes to mind when I ask these questions. Favorite korean food.
Hyunwoo Sun (40:08):
Oh, rapid, right. I don't have a favorite korean food.
Monica H. Kang (40:12):
Okay. Favorite korean food today.
Hyunwoo Sun (40:14):
Today. Okay. Kimbap.
Monica H. Kang (40:17):
Why?
Hyunwoo Sun (40:18):
Because it's convenient to get.
Monica H. Kang (40:20):
Do you have a particular kimbap flavor?
Hyunwoo Sun (40:24):
Mmm, that's always good.
Monica H. Kang (40:26):
Okay. Favorite korean word and why.
Hyunwoo Sun (40:32):
And is something that everybody can say to anyone. Like korean people don't talk to strangers very often, but they do say so I think it's not a word, but it's my favorite phrase in the korean language.
Monica H. Kang (40:46):
And saying hello, it's a special one. Since we are speaking about language, your favorite korean slang.
Hyunwoo Sun (40:53):
Oh, I'm not ready for this. I don't have favorites. So my favorite korean slang or slang.
Monica H. Kang (41:01):
That'S coming to mind that you think others should know. We can do that too.
Hyunwoo Sun (41:05):
Yeah. I don't speak slang, but let me just look at the last message that I exchanged with my son, and maybe. Maybe there will be a slang expression that he used. He says quite often, whenever I do something, whenever I do a flip in the gym, or whenever I show him a cool video, he says, tebak te bak is amazing. But it's funny because it comes from this original meaning of a large gourd. You know what a gourd is? So gourd. It's. Yeah.
Monica H. Kang (41:38):
Anyway, what about favorite korean idiom?
Hyunwoo Sun (41:41):
Favorite korean idiom, I would say, like to grab at your ankle. So like, your stereotypical ideas of certain things, your, like, past mistakes are kind of grabbing you by the ankle so that you can't, you know, go forward. One of my favorite korean idioms.
Monica H. Kang (42:02):
Gotta look out for all your past. Thanks. Holding on to you, somebody who wants to visit Korea and learn more about Korea. What's at least one place they should absolutely visit?
Hyunwoo Sun (42:11):
Or do I think they should visit either Hongdae or Gangnam, at least for those places? Maybe both, if you can. Hongdae is like really bustling with young people and a lot of street food. I still see a lot of street food vendors, and Gangnam is like the most luxurious area. Like most, I guess, city area in Seoul. So visit those two places, Hongdae and Gangnam.
Monica H. Kang (42:38):
And I know you travel quite a bit, both international, domestically. Has there been place somewhere around the world that you were surprised you had good korean food that was not in Korea, or like, learning about Korea that was outside that you can share?
Hyunwoo Sun (42:53):
I was surprised that in China, I found some really good korean food, although it was really like the same price as in Korea, so overpriced for their local standards. And I think a lot of countries, a lot of cities around the world are having more and more k towns building up. So I'm actually looking forward to visiting more k towns. It's kind of like korean people usually try to avoid visiting k towns when they go overseas because why would they go to those places? But I want to see the difference between Korea now and k town because it seems like Korea towns around the world seem to conserve korean culture a little more conservatively, so I want to see the difference.
Monica H. Kang (43:47):
And there's a reason why we still also have La Kairbi even in Korea, right? So they are rebranding that comes back even to Korea, which is a good point. What's a fun fact or something that you like about korean culture and history that you like to share with others?
Hyunwoo Sun (44:05):
So modern history, korean people have gone through so many different changes for the past 70 years after the war. So people are quick at adapting to new situations, and that's agility and that's resilience. So I think that's great. And if you think about other countries that were in the same economic condition, that are still in the same economic condition that Korea was in the fifties, we've come a long way. So I think that's is one aspect of the korean culture that you can kind of dip into and learn about.
Monica H. Kang (44:44):
And what's also something that you wish people understood better about Korea that you think is often still misunderstood or not fully represented?
Hyunwoo Sun (44:54):
I think not one aspect of the korean culture, but I think you can only really see korean culture by learning to speak the language. There's very little still even now, very little translation, very little like introduction in other languages that are done about Korea. If you only learn about Korea through English or other languages, you're only scratching the surface. So I really hope more and more people learn Korean. And if it happens to be that if your personality, your like given traits, and the traits of many korean people actually match, Korea might be a really good place for you to live. And the korean population will go down eventually, and Korea will need more and more people living in it in the future.
(45:48):
So I hope more and more people will learn to speak Korean, at least at the intermediate level, and then they will know more about Korea. That is really difficult to describe in other languages.
Monica H. Kang (46:02):
And hey, you have the textbooks and how to do that, so.
Hyunwoo Sun (46:06):
Exactly.
Monica H. Kang (46:07):
You don't have to go far in the how in the process and how you want to learn Korean. Well, thank you so much. We dove into so many different aspects. I'm so grateful, Hyuno. For those who want to connect with you and learn more about you and your work, what's the best way they can reach to you?
Hyunwoo Sun (46:22):
You can come to our website, talktimeincorean.com. Or if you're on YouTube, you can go to YouTube.com, talktomeincorean Instagram. Talk to me in Korean. So just type talk to me in Korean, anywhere you are. I'm also on LinkedIn. You can also reach out to me personally as well. So, yeah, I'm hoping to connect with more people in the future.
Monica H. Kang (46:42):
Sounds great. Well, thank you so much for your continued work and dedication and building more bridges. And so we look forward to help making a little contribution to the building bridge and help sharing this with the world. So thank you so much for joining us today.
Hyunwoo Sun (46:56):
Thank you for having me on today.
Monica H. Kang (46:58):
And folks, we'll see you later with another story.
See you later. So now that we're ready to dive into some korean language, I think you are ready to expand your korean language exposure. That's right, K drama. Well, you might already be doing a bit of it. The K dramas, the K music and all of that, the K movies, all the awards that they recently got. But have you noticed how there are so many stories that you relate to even though its all in a different language in Korean? Its not a coincidence. And its something that a friend of mine whos a therapist have noticed consistently and wanted to help channel that into a bigger conversation of mental health.
(47:45):
So next week were going to invite her to share a little bit more how she uses kids kdrama to talk about something bigger, such as mental health and why you would want to fall in love with kdrama. Join us next week and we'll dive right into it. I'm your host, Monica Kang, and you're listening to dear workplace. Have a great one. See you next week. Thanks again for joining us. This is your host, Monica Kang at Dear Workplace. And I'm so glad you are here. Shout out to audio engineering and producing by Sam Lehmart, audio Engineering assistant by Ravi Lad, website and marketing support by Kree Pandey, graphic support by Lea Orsini, Christine Eribal, and original music by InnovatorsBox Studios and writing, interviewing, podcasting, directing, and all that jazz by me, Monica Kang.
(48:23):
Shout out to audio engineering and producing by Sam Lamer, audio Engineering assistant by Ravi Ladd, website and marketing support by Cree Pandey, graphic support by Leah Orsini, Christine Eribal, and original music by Innovators Box Studios and writing, interviewing, podcasting, directing, and all that jazz by me, Monica King. Share us your feedback and suggestions as we continue to look to improve and answer the questions that you have about the workplace. Have a great day and I'll see you soon.
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