Season 2 Ep 23, Clearing Trauma to Reclaim Soul Sovereignty: Breaking Free from the Vile Parasitic Forces

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Welcome to the Disrupt Now Podcast.
This is Natalie Viglione, your host,
and this is season two, unlocking the
cosmic mysteries around New Earth magick.
My desires to bring conversations
that serve as cosmic medicine for

(00:22):
all of the sacred souls that seek the
revealing of the magick and mystery.
Of the organic celestial energies, I
powerfully step in as a sacred vessel
for the cosmic mother, or as we can
say, the divine feminine energy rising.

(00:44):
I walk an authentic druitic path
of primordial tradition, and I
am here to share wisdom and the
highest truth for the betterment of.
All beings, animals, minerals,
plant life, and all that is please
join me on this journey to explore
and awaken the magick again.

(01:08):
What if the thoughts that are telling
you consistently that you're broken
actually wasn't coming from you at all?
In this soul shaking episode of the
Disrupt Now Podcast, we're going to
be pulling back the veil on a reality
that most are too afraid to talk about.
I'm Natalie Viglione, and today

(01:29):
we are going to be diving into a
conversation that could change the way
you understand , or inner stand, as I
like to say, mental illness, trauma,
and your own inner world forever.
Joining me in this episode is Jerry
Marzinsky, he's been on two other
episodes, so, he's returning, and in this

(01:52):
episode we're going to be expanding our
conversation and having someone join us to
share her story, and , Jerry Marzinsky is
a former psychotherapist who spent decades
inside of the prison system, as well as
within the largest mental institution
in the world where he was questioning

(02:15):
mainstream psychiatric narratives and the
powers that be did not like that at all.
We are returning in this episode to
bring Judy Gregerson, who is a very
courageous soul, a survivor of deep
spiritual torment who found her way

(02:36):
out through healing and divine light.
Together we're exposing the truth
about the vile, parasitic entities
that feed off unresolved trauma,
these are entities that use negative
voices with the intent to harm,
manipulate, isolate, and also destroy.

(02:58):
But there is a way to sovereignty.
There is a way to freedom, and it begins
when you are empowered to face trauma,
to clear that trauma, to raise your
vibrational field, all the layers and
all the levels, to a place where these
parasitic what have been called " demonic"
and what I know are actual, technologies,

(03:21):
for lack of a better word, making an
environment they can no longer survive
in or around your field, your light body.
This is bringing in some spiritual
truths that we must see, that we
must hear and we must talk about
and bring this into the light.
This is about reclaiming your

(03:43):
light, your energy, and your
truest of true, authentic self.
So if you've ever struggled with
depression where it feels like you
cannot get out of that spiral, invasive
negative thoughts with the intent to
actually do harm to you or to others,
emotional overwhelm that comes out

(04:03):
of nowhere, or if you're supporting
someone who has had this or you have
friends that are experiencing this,
then this would be the episode for you.
Because the truth is you are not broken.
You are under energetic invasion,
and now it's time to be empowered

(04:24):
to rise and to reclaim your sacred
temple, your sacred space which is you.
Let us go on this journey together,
and I hope you find as much
empowerment in this story as I did.
I would also like to say that Jerry
and Judy both wrote books about
these experiences, and I would love

(04:45):
to, recommend those books to you.
And we'll have those linked in the
description and in all the places so
that you can get access to the wonderful
insights that they're bringing.
Let's dive into this episode.
Welcome back everyone to another episode.
I'm really excited, as
noted in the intro to this.

(05:06):
We are joined and gathered
here today with Jerry and Judy.
I, again, want to express my
profound gratitude to you both
for being here on the show.
So I can't wait to dive in with you
and really, delve deeply into this.
Oh, so important topic that
we're going to dive in today.

(05:27):
Okay.
You want me to start off?
Yeah.
So, okay.
As noted in the intro, Jerry, you and
I have had some good long conversations
previously in a couple of episodes,
which again, I do, want to ensure
everybody, to go listen to those two
because these are all connected stories.

(05:47):
But yeah, Jerry, dive on in.
Okay, well, the topic we're gonna
be covering mostly today is the
voices that schizophrenics here
all through graduate school.
They taught us, oh, the voices
are auditory hallucinations.
You know, they didn't go into any

(06:08):
detail on what they were at all.
They just go auditory hallucinations.
So I'm thinking, well,
that's like word salad.
You know, they don't make any sense.
They're all over the place.
It's just, you know, verbal garbage.
That's not what I saw when I started
working at one of the biggest
state hospitals on the planet.
You know, it looked to me, when I
started off with, it looked like a

(06:29):
one-sided telephone conversation where
I could hear the, the schizophrenic
talking to the voices, but I couldn't
hear what they were telling them.
Okay.
And then it, it just got to
like, I started investigating
what these things were.
You know, and I spent decades studying the
voices, and I saw they were running fixed

(06:52):
patterns, a number of fixed patterns.
And if they're running patterns,
they can't be hallucinations.
Hallucinations don't run patterns, right?
And you can find a whole list of these
patterns on my website@jerrymosinski.com
under articles, psychiatrists, look at it.
It's right in front of your fricking eyes.
You know, it's not hidden in some genetic

(07:15):
anything or a biochemical imbalance.
You will see these patterns
for yourself, you know?
Yeah.
And they're, they're
repeatable, fixed patterns.
Okay?
So there's something there.
This is the operational
definition of these voices.
Now I started interfering with these
patterns, and then the prisoners

(07:38):
I was working with came back
and said, they don't like that.
They don't want us coming here,
they don't want us listening to you.
They don't want us doing
anything that you want.
You know?
I'm like, well that's interesting.
You know?
So the more I interfered with those
patterns, when I, I got better at it.
I had one inmate come up and he
goes, the voices wanna speak to you.

(07:59):
You know, I'm knocked on my door one day.
That had never happened
before in 20 years.
So I'm like, they wanna
speak to me personally.
He says, yeah, they wanna
speak to you personally, right?
So I let him in and I go,
okay, what do they have to say?
And these words came out of
his mouth, you have no right to

(08:19):
interfere with our way of life.
And that freaked me out.
You know, it was the first time.
Even, though I had tons of evidence
to the contrary, that was the first
time I've, I've fully realized.
'cause I didn't wanna believe that these
things were demons or, or, you know, had

(08:39):
their own, had their own intelligence
and that, but that's what it looked like.
Yeah.
When that happened, it's like they
are, you know, they are entities.
And the prisoner I was talking
to, he, he said, that wasn't me.
That was them.
I didn't say that.
And then I said, well, tell them this.
And he said, I don't have
to tell 'em anything.

(08:59):
They can hear everything you say.
They can see every move you make.
And that freaked me out even more.
Right.
So that's the first time where it really
clicked in after decades of studying
these things, that they were not
hallucinations, that these things had an
intelligence that they could speak back.
That, that they existed
within the schizophrenic Now.

(09:24):
Understanding that these voices
are not part of the schizophrenic,
they don't belong to them.
They're coming from somewhere else,
is critical to their recovery.
Yeah.
And what psychiatry is doing
is just the opposite of that.
They're telling these people,
these voices are hallucinations.
Just ignore them.
The first time I heard that, I

(09:46):
called that person back, a week
later, and I said, I was with you.
When the psychiatrist told you to ignore
the voices, how did that work for you?
He said not well at all.
They just got louder.
They got more persistent.
They refused to be ignored.
And then I started questioning others.
You know, there was no shortage of
schizophrenics either in the prison, in
the, where I worked in the psychology

(10:06):
department or at the state hospital.
So when I found something, I would ask all
the rest of 'em, does this go for you too?
So each one of these patterns
have been screened through
hundreds of schizophrenics.
It's not just one or two.
We're have hundreds of them
are all saying the same thing.
Okay?
And they don't know each other.

(10:27):
So I. What psychiatry is telling
schizophrenics that these things
are auditory hallucinations.
They have no research
whatsoever to back that.
They haven't done any research at all.
They just got up there and went.
We are the psychiatrist, we're the high
priest of psychiatry, and we dis, we
hereby declare that these voices are

(10:48):
hallucinations and just ignore them.
They're not real.
They're very real.
You'll hear Judy in a few
minutes, you'll be talking.
They're very real, right?
Yeah.
So they come from outside.
They don't come from inside.
They're very low frequency beings.
Okay?
They sound pretty much just like

(11:09):
all the other thousands of thoughts,
for the most part that go through
your mind on a, on a, on any day.
But the content, the
intention is very different.
It's very negative, it's very dangerous.
It's very, self demeaning.
Um.
It, it's, it's very kind of aggressive.
They, they put the person down.

(11:30):
They tell 'em all kinds of
rotten things about 'em.
They interpret reality for 'em.
Say, well, that this person is
talking behind your back, or this
person gonna stab you in the back.
They try to turn families
against one another.
They try to turn girlfriends against
boyfriends, husbands against wives.
They want to destroy the
family and they hate children.

(11:51):
They will tell the parents
to abuse the children.
So what it looks like, and what
I've seen is that they set up the
conditions in these children to, for
them to become schizophrenic also.
And I remember one guy I talked to,
his mother was schizophrenic, and
he had to get away from her because
he started hearing voices also.

(12:13):
And soon as he got away from
her, those things disappeared.
Okay, so here's psychiatry, telling
these people, your mind is broken.
There's nothing you can do about it
except our take our toxic meds and
these meds, they, they insist that these
meds are safe and, you know, effective.

(12:35):
They're neither, you know, out
of every 100 patients that are
taking antipsychotic drugs, one to
two of them die from these drugs.
They are toxic.
Yeah.
They actually destroy the, the brain.
And with long-term use, they will
turn it into like a shrunken walnut.
They found that in autopsies with, with,
patients who live, you know, were on these

(12:58):
drugs for years in the state hospital.
Okay?
Now these people are making,
you know, $3.5 billion a year
selling these antipsychotic drugs.
Psychiatrists are making
like 200, 250 per visit.
They have no investment
in telling you the truth.
They have no investment in

(13:18):
investigating these voices.
And the two times I got caught by
psychiatrists asking patients, what
are these things telling you now?
I was called up and told,
you will not do that.
These are auditory hallucinations.
By asking them what they are, you
are reinforcing the hallucination
and you're making them worst.

(13:40):
You know, I knew that was a
bunch of BS at the time, but
you don't argue with these guys.
And most of 'em are, are very arrogant.
You know, they, they just have this
air of aloof, like, you know, the,
the high priest of old, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
And their diagnosis are all made up too.
You know, the chemical imbalance
where they, they're telling these
patients that these voices are due

(14:01):
to a chemical imbalance of the brain.
Now, anybody who believes that when
you go, if you're a schizophrenic,
you go to the psychiatrist's office,
you see if they gave you any kind of.
Objective test any kinda lab test, any
kind of blood work, any kind of test
whatsoever to, to see what is out of

(14:21):
balance in your brain or by how much you
won't see it because it doesn't exist.
They made this up.
Eli Lilly made that up in, in, when
they came up with Prozac and now
the universities are teaching it.
They're putting it in all their papers.
They have hoodwinked the entire planet.
And this is a, a, a

(14:42):
very dark, organization.
Yeah, you know, big pharma
mixed with psychiatry.
I mean, they're hand in hand.
They block any negative research
about these drugs or about the
voices or about anything else.
So, you know, you, if you go
to a psychiatrist's office.
You're schizophrenic, they're gonna
ask you if you hear voices, you say

(15:03):
yes, you're automatically gonna come
out of there with an antipsychotic
drug that will eventually rot out
your brain and your peripheral
nervous system with long enough use.
And they won't tell you that.
They'll tell you you've
get blurred vision.
You'll feel groggy.
There'll be sexual dysfunction,
but they won't tell you that it's
actually gonna rot out your central
nervous system and cause permanent

(15:24):
neurological damage with long-term use.
Yeah, it won't be there.
Okay.
So we're gonna let Judy talk.
And Judy has dealt with
these voices for many years.
They, they almost got her to
kill herself several times.
It's very confusing when they
start, the, the, the, the person

(15:46):
doesn't know what they are.
You know, they go, what are they?
Where do they come from?
You know, and they're, they have no idea.
And there's nobody there to tell 'em.
Exactly.
So you just believe it's you because
you're hearing the voices in your head.
So if it's coming from
your head, it must be you.
Yeah.
And that's not the truth.
And that's what psychiatry
tell these people.
Your brain is broken.

(16:08):
You've gotta take these toxic drugs
for the rest of your life and you've
gotta come see me every month and
pay $250 to, you know, for the
prescription to get these things,
if not more.
Right.
Could be if not more thousands.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and what's so disgusting about that?
I live 60 miles from the Mexican border,
you can drive across that border and these

(16:29):
drugs that people are paying, you know,
like hundreds of dollars a month for.
You can go across the
border and get 'em for $75.
You know, these are not usable drugs.
Nobody in their right mind, even in their
wrong mind wants to take these things.
Yeah.
Their side effects are awful.
And yet psychiatry's clutching them, like

(16:51):
this is their sacred cross, you know?
Yeah.
They, they will not allow them to go
out in the US without prescription.
They charge 10 times as much for
these same drugs as you can get
in across the border in Mexico.
You don't need a psychiatrist
to buy them in Mexico.
But what they usually do,
they'll see a psychiatrist.
A psychiatrist said, well,
I think you got this.
This is a drug you take when you run out.

(17:12):
You go to the pharmacy
and you get it yourself.
You don't have to go back through a
psychiatrist again and pay another $250.
Yeah.
And then they're wondering, oh, why
are medical costs so high in the us?
Right.
You know, we're being,
we're being robbed blind.
Yeah.
And lied
to, I mean, it's just, and lied
to and deceived.

(17:33):
Yeah, it's pure.
You know, there's just
no other word for it.
It's just pure evil.
Truly that's, yeah, it is.
It's, it's pure evil.
Yeah.
And I've seen it for decades
and it just, it's disgusting.
Yeah.
Truly.
Yeah.
And you know, one thing that I, I think
that isn't talked about a lot either

(17:53):
is, you know, when the antipsychotics
are prescribed, I'm really in this place
of seeing it as I believe that those
are the very things that can actually
break the vibrational layers or the,
or field or the protection layers.
And actually it makes that
human more susceptible to the
very voices and entities and

(18:14):
things that we're talking about.
Like, it just, it lowers their
ab ability to even respond.
Properly.
Yeah.
It, it kind of turns 'em into zombies.
Yeah.
But the voices are parasitic entities.
Exactly.
The reason, one of the first patterns
I saw is they're consistently negative.
They're consistently
derogatory and abusive.

(18:36):
What they wanna do is create negative
emotion and that's what they feed off of.
And then that, that emotion
disappears after they attack.
Exactly.
They're, they're actually sucking
that negative energy out of the person
leaving them just with no nothing.
Yep.
And we
wonder where the whole lore
of vampires comes from.

(18:57):
Yes.
That's why it's so spooky.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Because these very things we think
are entertainment are actually like
entrainment of, by the way, this is
actually what's going on in the world,
but we're gonna make it seem like it's
a movie and it's just like, ha for last
and Yeah.
Yeah.
Like it's science fiction.
Yeah, exactly.
I think, I think they know that at some

(19:17):
subconscious level, everybody knows
that, which is why that's so spooky.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, Judy, you know, thank you so
much for being here again and for being
here to tell your story and share.
I know we have a lot to dive into,
so I guess, you know, the best
place to start is where you feel
the best place to start might be.
Yeah.

(19:39):
Okay.
And then
we'll dig in from there.
Okay.
Well, you know, I was listening
to Jerry talk and he was talking
about how these things set up kids.
And I think I'll start there because that
is, they build a groundwork in somebody's
life and that the groundwork that they
build, even when you overcome the voices,
you've still got to deal with that.

(20:00):
And for me, my life began, it began
with a tremendous amount of trauma.
I came from a family that was,
that disintegrated over a period
of about seven or eight years.
My mother ended up in a
psych ward trying to dry out.
My dad kind of just checked out.
He was a narcissist.
I was the youngest of four
children, and I lived through,

(20:22):
terrible things that they did.
They were both alcoholics
and I grew up with that.
And so I began to develop as a young
kid, a pretty negative self-image.
By the time I was 13, I tried to
commit suicide, took a bottle of pills.
I was very angry.
I had a chip in my shoulder,
so all this was building in me.
So by the time I got to college,

(20:42):
I was carrying all that.
I was carrying bitterness and anger
and resentment, and I was lost.
I was so lost because my family
didn't give me a groundwork.
My groundwork was trauma.
That's all I knew.
Trauma and triggers, and I didn't even
understand it at that point in my life.
So when I got college, I had no real

(21:04):
ground to stand on for building a life.
So everything that happened was a trauma.
It just triggered all my trauma.
So every, every problem that you
might have in college and, and you
know, it's like you go to college
and things don't always go right.
For me, that was, that was, it
was a reason to slit my wrist.
You know, it was a reason to
overdose on pills because I

(21:26):
couldn't cope with anything.
I had no coping skills.
And so I got involved my
freshman year with drugs.
I got involved, did a lot of
LSD, tremendous amount of LSDI.
I basically lived on it day after day,
and finally towards the end of the year,
I had a bad trip and it scared me really
badly because I, and I don't really
remember the trip, but I remember there

(21:48):
was a tremendous amount of fear and I
realized I was going and I was going in
a direction that was gonna destroy me.
That's kind of how I felt.
So I stopped doing it and I went
home that summer from college and
I was working as a waitress, and I
started having dissociative episodes
where I would be carrying a tray.
Food to a table, and suddenly the,
the room would go totally silent

(22:08):
and I'd go blank and I didn't
know where I was or who I was.
And that would last three,
four or five seconds, maybe
longer, I don't really remember.
And then I'd pop right back
into reality and go on.
And that happened several times.
And I didn't know that I was heading
towards a breakdown is what I was doing.
And I didn't know it.
So I went back to college and, a guy

(22:31):
that I was very much in love with,
was back that year and I really
wanted to get more involved with him.
And I was very needy.
And I actually thought that I, I could,
and I had no identity because my identity
was just all this negative garbage.
But I had nothing healthy as an identity.
And so I wanted to get close enough to

(22:53):
people that I could kind of, I could,
I could live off their energy almost.
It was a weird thing.
I, I could live off their identity.
I wanted to kind of live in their
identity and that scared him to death.
So he left.
And, right around that time
I had become a Christian.
I was involved with a
Christian group on campus.

(23:14):
It didn't have, it didn't offer me much.
I found no answers there, but I sensed
that for me it was a good way to go.
And so I stuck with it.
And this guy left and I was, I
was just despondent about it.
So I had some Valium.
I took out a bottle of Valium, and I took
the whole bottle and I was lying there,

(23:35):
and I could feel myself drifting off.
And as I was drifting off, I realized in a
very strong sense that I was going to die.
And if I died, I was
probably gonna go to hell.
That was my sense.
And that scared me.
And I picked up the phone
and called my roommate.
And that's the last thing I remember
until I woke up in the hospital
with tubes in my throat that I was
pulling out and screaming and kicking.

(23:56):
But.
That kind of was my entrance into the,
psychiatric community, into the mental
health system because I was in New York.
And so if you try to commit
suicide, you go into the system.
Mm. So I, I went into the system,
but before that happened, and it's
hard, you know, this happened 50
years ago, so it's hard to remember
the chronology, some of this stuff.

(24:17):
But before that happened, I, was
lying in my dorm room one day
and smoking pot and listening to
music, and I began to see a door.
And it was like, it was
like a hallucination, but I,
I, I visualized this door.
There was this big wooden door.
It was big.
And I felt that door was calling to me.

(24:39):
And I thought, well, okay,
I'll, I'll go through the door.
You know, I'd done a lot of acid
and I'd, I'd gone through all
kinds of things and I said, this
was nothing new, a door, let's go.
So I thought, well, this will be fun.
So I went through the door, and when I
went through the door, I believe, now
looking back as that was when I allowed
these entities, I gave them permission.

(25:00):
I walked through their door
and I said, okay, here I am.
And they said, okay, here we are.
And that door shut.
And when that door shut, I was in
another, mentally I was in another realm.
I was, I was in another dimension, and the
voices began to talk to me, and there were
four of them, and they were demeaning.

(25:20):
They were nasty.
They mocked me.
They said nasty things about me.
They told me my life was over.
They told me that I would never
be well, that I had broken
myself and I didn't understand.
Jerry and I have talked about this.
I didn't understand what the voices were.
There were definitely voices.
There were four of them, and there were
two in front of me and two behind me,

(25:41):
which is how I knew there were four.
Wow.
And they would, they would talk and they
would talk to each other, but in there
talking to each other, they would mock me.
It was a constant mock Wow.
On me and constant.
So it's, you know, it's like if
you were in a room and you have
four people that are attacking you,
telling you you're a piece of crap.
You're never gonna be any good.
Nobody wants you, nobody loves you.
Kill yourself.
You should die.

(26:02):
And, and you hear that constantly.
I had a, a similar experience
when I started, you know, moving
into what the voices were.
It was like a whole different dimension.
And it played by a whole
Different set of rules.
So it's like, I had one foot in where

(26:22):
you were talking about Judy and the
other foot on the other side of the door.
Mm-hmm.
But I never, all the way went through,
I would just kind of halfway and
look around and it would like mm-hmm.
I was very clear that I didn't
know what the rules were.
Mm-hmm.
You know,
I didn't know who was over there.
I didn't know how things worked there.
And it was, it was pretty scary.
And there was nobody to talk to.

(26:43):
I, I couldn't talk to anybody
about what I was seeing, what I
was experiencing, what the voices
were saying, what I was learning.
I, I, I had to keep it all to myself.
And that went on for many years until
I met Sherry, the co-author of my book.
She was the first same person that
I could talk to about this stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
You couldn't talk to anybody at work

(27:04):
and, and my wife would say, well,
what are you doing picking through
the heads of, you know, psychotic
inmates Anyway, you know, so.
Right.
Yeah.
It was a very lonely feeling.
Yeah.
Well, and when you're in
that world, you are alone.
And as I've explained it, you
are in one realm in your mind.

(27:25):
You know?
'cause we do, we live in
our, we live in our mind.
That's, that's where consciousness is.
But yeah, but, but your mind
is in this other dimension.
Your body is in the world now.
You are not allowed to participate
in the world other than to go
through whatever's expected of you.
You know, you have to
get up, eat the motions.

(27:46):
You go through the motions.
I told the psychiatrist,
I was hearing voices.
He diagnosed me, he put me on drugs, but I
never told my friends that I heard voices.
What I would tell them was, they would
say, well, what's going on with you?
And I'd say, well, I'm not here.
And they're like, well, where are you?
And I said, I, I don't know
where I am, but I can't get out.

(28:06):
And it's, it's like being
trapped in a prison.
And you live in that world.
And in that world, you
are emotionally paralyzed.
Yeah, completely.
It's like if you had a panic attack where
you're paralyzed, you're like that 24
hours a day, you're emotionally paralyzed.
You, you thinking is very difficult.

(28:28):
You can do some thinking, but, but not
like you would just sit and think freely.
'cause your mind is also
to some degree paralyzed.
So you're not free to think,
you're not free to feel.
And in that world there is, there is no
love, there is no hope, there is no peace.
All it is is torment.

(28:49):
And it is, it is overwhelmingly,
run and managed by fear.
That is what they use on you.
The fear was so great.
Paranoia was so great.
I thought somebody was gonna come
and take me and punish me, and
they would tell me, you're going
to be punished for what you did.
It's like, I think, what did I do?
And I'd look back over my life.

(29:09):
Well, you know, I made a lot of mistakes
as a teenager and a young adult, and
I thought, I'm going to be punished.
Somebody's gonna come and
they're gonna punish me.
And I never knew.
So you live in this hyper
vigilance that wears you out.
And Jerry's talked a lot
about how they suck the energy
out in the life out of you.
Just being in that hypervigilant
state and trying to fight them and

(29:31):
trying to figure out what they are
and trying to figure out how are you
gonna get rid of them, is exhausting.
And then when they double down and
they do, at times they double down.
There are times where they, they're
not so bad and, and you're just kind
of in a numb state of nothingness,
but you're not being attacked.
And then they double down and
they come and they start up again.

(29:52):
I remember one, one guy I spoke to,
the voices were talking behind him,
plotting how they were gonna kill him.
You know, well, should we, should we
get 'em to run in front of a car or in
the, here they were debating how they
were gonna kill him, and that just
went on for days and days and days.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And you know, and they, and
they tell you, you are nothing.

(30:13):
You're worth nothing.
You'll never be anything.
And they tell you, you will never be free.
There is no way out.
There's no way out.
And when I started, I took three
drugs and I, when I started on
those drugs, the voices kind
of melded into my own thoughts.
It, it, it kind of damped them down.
So I began to think it

(30:33):
was my own thoughts.
I, I think I almost thought
kind of the voices had left.
It was just, no, it was just me.
And what I figured was
that I had shattered.
I thought I'd done so much LSD
that I had shattered my mind.
And the psychiatrist told me,
you're gonna be like this forever.
So learn to live with it.
Well, how do you learn in, or how

(30:54):
do you live in constant terror?
Hopeless message.
Very hopeless message.
Oh yeah.
They give, they give you, they
give you, they answer you.
And despair.
Despair.
And so it is, it is a place of despair.
And I would have blackouts where
I, I found myself one time in the
New York state throughway driving
towards a, a bridge and not knowing

(31:16):
how I got on the throughway,
what day it was, how I got there.
Didn't know.
Sometimes I would look in the mirror
and I would think, well, that's me.
And then I'd go, I don't know.
I don't, I don't know if
that's me, is that me?
So I couldn't really
fully recognize myself.
I don't know how to explain that.
I mean, I look in the mirror and
I knew the face, but I couldn't

(31:36):
connect who I was with that face.
I now, Judy,
did those, did those voices sound any
different from the thousands of other
thoughts you went through your mind?
Was there any difference
in tone or anything?
Or was it just the content was
consistently negative and abusive?
Could.
When they first started, Jerry, to

(31:57):
me, I didn't know what they were.
They sounded different to me.
But it's so long ago it's hard to
remember exactly what they sounded like.
But then when I got on the
drugs, it just became my thought.
So I thought, okay, I ruined myself.
I'm a piece of junk.
I shouldn't be living.
I should kill myself.

(32:17):
In fact, at one point they told me
to kill a friend of mine who had
gotten me involved in drugs and told
me to smash his head in with a, with
a, a heavy lamp until he was dead.
And, but I was not homicidal.
I was suicidal, but I wasn't homicidal.
And, and the psychiatrist, every time I
saw him, he'd ask me, are you suicidal?
Are you homicidal?

(32:39):
I would deny both.
I would deny that.
Yeah.
They, they're just covering their butts.
They don't want anybody on their caseload.
Yeah.
Killing themselves.
Now, 50,000 people in the United or else
United States kill themselves every year.
Mo a lot.
Good.
Many of 'em are on psychiatric drugs
at the time, and it's these entities
that are telling them the kind of

(32:59):
stuff that Judy's talking about.
Yeah.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
So the suicide rate is
increasing every year.
Right.
And the amount of psychiatric
drugs is increasing every year,
and so is the psychiatrist and
nobody's getting any better.
Right.
Our mental health system as it exists
right now, as an abject failure.
Mm-hmm.
Totally.
Yeah.

(33:19):
And the drugs that they gave me,
all they did was turn into a zombie.
It's like, it's like the entities take
your mind, the drugs take your soul,
and, and there's, and, and you are.
You kind of, you are just a void.
And I always tell people I felt
like I was in a deep, deep hole.
I that I could barely see out

(33:41):
of that it was so big and that I
could have screamed till I turned
blue and nobody would hear me.
And and you are always in your
head kind of screaming, you're
always looking for your way out.
You're trying to figure out how,
how you can unbreak yourself
because nobody knows how.
And you know, I, I remember the other
day I was thinking about, I used to try

(34:02):
to change the channel in my head 'cause
I thought if I change the channel in my
head, I mean, and it's crazy to think
that you have channels in your head, but I
really thought I had channels in my head.
So I would change a channel.
Like it was a radio.
But every channel, these voices,
these thoughts were there.
I couldn't escape 'em.
There was no no channel to get away.

(34:23):
Right.
So, you know, it is, you know, they
come to kill, steal, and destroy.
Yeah.
And they had come to kill,
steal everything I had and
destroy everything I had.
And there was, there was no way out.
Could we go back to just a moment?
You know, I think that the interesting

(34:43):
thing I was talking, Jerry and I were
chatting just before we all, came on
and you know, I find that moment of
that doorway extremely intriguing.
And, you know, I think that this gave, you
know, I heard you, I heard you say that
on another show, and I thought, wow, this
is a whole new concept of a gateway drug.

(35:05):
Kind of a thing.
Like what is the gateway?
Where are these gateways going?
So in that moment, I'm just curious
if anything comes up that you can,
because I think that, you know, that's
the thing that's also, you know,
people like to run and especially
today, go do these ayahuasca ceremonies
and all these kinds of things.

(35:26):
They do not get what
they are messing with.
They don't get the realms, they
don't get what actually is on
the table is your soul, is your
consciousness, and, you know, to be
extremely protective of those layers.
When that door closed, and you
mentioned that it kind of just,
what do you reme, what, what kind

(35:47):
of, ensued around those, that time
as much as you can remember anyway?
Mm-hmm.
From a feeling place, like was it just
all of a sudden, like whatever was before,
which was, you know, you didn't have.
These parasites attached into your
field, but at that moment, it's like,
they were like, okay, come on in.

(36:10):
It's now join.
You know, let's all be
in the club together.
Mm-hmm.
Can you talk about that just a little bit?
I feel like that's a really important
thing that people can take into their
own experiences to think about deeply.
Well, here's something to think about.
They're saying now that, pot
causes schizophrenia, marijuana.
They're saying a lot of these

(36:31):
young boys who are schizophrenic
suddenly, it's because of pot.
Well, I know why.
It's because of pot.
Because when you get high and you
can, you can have your visualizations
and your hallucinations on pot.
You know, if you're, you're really
into pot, you can, you can move
your head and your mind that way.

(36:51):
It is a gateway.
It is a, it is a door.
And if you.
To me, if you allow, if you say,
okay, I'll go through that door,
you are entering their world.
You are giving them
permission to take you.
And these kids who are smoking pot, now,
I don't know that they'd have the same
experience of walking through a door,
but there is, there is that moment that,

(37:11):
you know, you are crossing something.
And I don't know that I realized
at the time it didn't feel, it
didn't feel bad, it felt inviting.
It was calling to me, you know,
I could hear it, I could see it
in my mind, I could visualize it.
And so, you know, you
cross that threshold.

(37:32):
I had no clue.
No clue what I was getting myself into.
I just thought, this is
gonna be another fun trip.
Something good's gonna happen, some, you
know, it's gonna be a feel good thing.
Right.
And those gateways are a trap
because they look good, they feel
good, they sound good, they're fun.

(37:53):
But you can get, and I had done a lot
of drugs before that and hadn't gone
through that door, but I must have
reached some peak point in my life
where, and I think in a sense I did,
because everything around me had crashed.
I was, I was just, I was just ready to go.
I was ready to just let go.
And that's what I did.

(38:13):
I let down every, all my defenses
and boom, there they were.
Yeah.
The most dangerous drug I saw
while I was working psych in the,
in the prison was amphetamine.
Yeah.
I saw more prisoners had gone psychotic
on amphetamine than any other drug.

(38:35):
They were hearing voices and these
voices would tell them where to go, when
to be there when they ran outta drugs.
And they would go there and some stranger
would show up with more amphetamine.
You know, the, the prisoners call
amphetamine the devil's drug.
And you look at what the government
is doing, you know, as up until
now they're letting tons of that

(38:55):
stuff come across the border.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Tons of it.
And, and there's a lot more people
gonna go psychotic on that stuff
and become non-functional citizens.
That tells you a little bit about
this previous administration.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Yeah.
Actually, we very interestingly, where
we live, we saw it played out in a person

(39:16):
that is like lived near us and we watched
it happen and you know, when you're really
sensitive to energy, like I can feel, I.
The parasites, the entities, the demons,
whatever you wanna call them, like
in, in people and surrounding them.
Mm-hmm.
And she, she now is in the system and she,
it completely broke within six months.

(39:39):
Mm-hmm.
And it's devastating.
It's just devastating to see happen.
Yeah.
Have you ever, have you ever read the
book, girl Interrupted?
Do you remember that book?
Girl Interrupted.
I,
I didn't read the book, but I did.
I saw the movie in that book, her first
chapter, she talks about the Door.
I read that book and I was stunned.
I didn't know anybody else had

(40:00):
ever experienced the door, but
she talks about coming upon this
door in her mind and saying, okay.
And opening that door, and then the door
shut behind her and she was trapped.
She was mentally, emotionally trapped.
I'd never heard anybody say that before.
And I read that and I went, wow, okay.
This, apparently this door is a thing.

(40:21):
On people, and I suppose they use
whatever, whatever is convenient for them
to use on whatever person that they have.
Whatever Sure.
Whatever will lure them.
You know, I was always looking for
something more fun or a better high,
you know, so there was that lure of
that door come through this door.
That's something even more there.
Right.

(40:42):
Does that kind of answer that?
Yeah.
The question about
Yeah.
Going across that tradition.
Totally.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I, I just feel like that's really,
for some reason, that's really powerful
for people to, to feel into and to know
so that, you know, especially on these
experiences, I think about it all the time

(41:02):
when there's, something like ayahuasca.
Whew.
That's a wild, and you know.
It matches the plant.
Like it's, you know, a crazy, you
know, and in indoors, outdoors, you
know, and you can, you can pretty
much travel anywhere and, you know,
without the right protective, shaman,
healer, you know, in the space, you
know, that's, that's scary stuff.

(41:23):
I just think that people need to
really be, very, aware of mm-hmm.
What's possible when our consciousness,
is, you know, vibrating at
different speeds and we're, and
we're able to go into different
and travel tally if we will mm-hmm.
Through these doors and such, so, yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks for that.

(41:43):
Yeah.
And I think, I think that there is
an invitation and I think people take
the invitation and that's when they
go over the edge and they may not
even realize that they've taken the
invitation, but they've taken it, you
know, and, and you give yourself over
to that and then you belong to them.
And that was very clear.
It was very clear to me
that my life was over.

(42:04):
And, and my big worry was I was
in college and I was flunking out.
And my worry was, where am I gonna go?
How am I gonna live?
How am I gonna work?
How am I, how am I gonna make money?
And at that, around that time, when I
flunked outta college, my dad disowned me.
'cause he thought I was playing a game.
He thought I was just
trying to get attention.

(42:24):
Mm. And he didn't, he didn't like the
fact that I was a disruption in his life.
And so he told me, don't come home
until you straighten this out.
You, you can act right.
And so I had nothing.
I had no family, I had nothing.
And, I've been going, I went through this
from, this started in about October of 71

(42:48):
and I got free of it, about April of 74.
So I lived with this for a long time.
And I, you know, most of the, most of
that time I was in college and then
one year, about one year outta college.
And so, you know, I tried to
navigate both worlds, but I
couldn't concentrate to study.

(43:09):
I couldn't, I was exhausted,
so I couldn't get to class.
I was completely whacked
out on these drugs.
So you're just, you know,
you're just a, a zombie.
Yeah.
And I was trying, at the same time,
trying to live a life and find an escape.
And I spent a lot of time in my head
trying to figure out how to escape.
I mean, that becomes your whole,

(43:29):
your whole thing is how, how
am I gonna escape out of this?
But there is none.
But you spin in that
wheel all day, all night.
How am I gonna escape?
How am I getting it out?
You think I'll, I'll
try this, I'll try that.
But there's no, there's no answer.
And the psychiatrist, you go
and, you know, again, he'd
ask you, are you suicidal?
Are you, you, homicidal?
And he give you the drugs.
In fact, Jerry, they gave me my drugs for

(43:50):
free, the county mental health center.
I didn't even make me pay for my drugs.
I'd go in, they, they'd just give me a
bottle, three bottles of pills, you know.
Wow.
I had, and they just gimme me.
Tons of 'em.
I mean, I had bottles and bottles
and bottles that they'd give me.
I had, you know, in fact, when
I left college and went, went to
Syracuse, I had enough pills that

(44:12):
lasted me almost a whole year.
That's how many.
Wow.
It was just, you know,
it was like half score.
So I never, I never paid for any of them.
And, and I often wondered if they were
using the kids that came in there that
had problems, like I did, I wonder
if they were just using us to click
data if we were just guine pigs.
I'm convinced we were, yeah.

(44:33):
I'm convinced the Guinea pigs,
yeah.
They're putting more and more
kids on these antipsychotic drugs.
You know, there's tens of
thousands of them now, and,
and it, it destroys your brain.
You
know, and your body, the health, you know,
the vitality.
Yeah, yeah.
With time.
I mean, these drugs do not cure anything.
Nothing.

(44:54):
No.
There's, they don't cure anything.
They, they don't fix anything.
They just, like Judy said, they just
dumb you down and turn you into a zombie.
They're like major tranquilizers.
They just calm you down.
Now the voices don't like them
because they don't want you calm down.
They want the person paranoid and,
you know, frantic and anxious and, you
know, that's what they feed off of.

(45:14):
So, you know, you'll find that
psychiatrists are being assaulted at
a high, rate higher than virtually any
other doctor, you know, they're, the
schizophrenics are constantly attacking
them because what the voices tell the
patient is that he's poisoning you.
The psychiatrist is poisoning.
You look at all these nasty symptoms,

(45:35):
these, these, these effects of
these drugs, you're being poisoned.
And in effect, they are.
Yeah, that's, that part's
actually true, but yeah, I'm not
saying it for helping reasons.
No, no.
Well there's, there's a
physical element to this too.
And you were talking about that friend.
You could feel, you could sense.

(45:58):
And with these entities, with
all that's going on in the mind,
there's a physical element.
There's the pressure, the pressure on
the head, the pressure on the body.
There's a darkness, there's a feeling
of such horrible darkness and despair.
You can feel, you can just physically

(46:19):
feel the oppression and that never leaves.
That's on you all the time.
The voices and the thoughts may,
they may come and go at times.
And it's interesting 'cause one
time, at one point I went to visit
family and while I was visiting
family, everything calmed down.
All calmed down.
The minute I left, it
was like a firestorm.

(46:40):
It all started up again.
I've never been able to figure out
why when I went to visit family
that it all calmed down, but it
did never, never made sense to me.
So you're dealing with the mental,
and you're dealing with the
sense that your life is over and
you're, and you know Natalie, at
some point you're going to die.
You know, that's the only
way out, you know, and they

(47:00):
make that very clear to you.
That is the only way out.
That's the only way you get.
Now, they never talked about killing me,
but they talked to me a lot about killing
myself, and I thought a lot about it.
And ultimately, when I flunked
outta college, I, I did try.
I was living in a sorority house
for the summer, not knowing where I
was gonna do, where I was gonna go.
I had no money.
College was over.

(47:21):
My father didn't want me.
I had nowhere to go.
So I, I tried to gas myself with my
car, and a friend of mine saved me.
She just had a sense that
something was going on.
She followed me outside.
And, so I went to my psychiatrist and
I told him, you know, I'm gonna kill
myself 'cause there is no way out.
And I asked him to get me on a rehab
program so I could go to Syracuse and

(47:42):
go to, like a four month secretarial
course so that I could get my typing
skills up and I could at least get
a job and I could, pay my bills.
You know, I could survive.
I'd be surviving at a very low poverty
level, but I would be surviving.
And, he agreed to do that.
He agreed to let me, you know, he
got me on on, what was called DVR at

(48:04):
the time, department of Vocational
Rehabilitation, so that they also gave me
some money, enough to pay rent and food.
That's about all you got.
And so I moved and I went to live
in a house with some Christian
women at Syracuse University right
on, right near the campus there.
And and I went there with
all this junk on me and.

(48:26):
I realized when I got there
that nothing had changed.
And you, you tend to think
I'll move, things will change.
Well, you get to the new
destination hasn't changed.
In fact, now it's worse because
now you're in an environment
where you don't know anybody.
So you've got all that
stress on top of it.
And so I decided I needed to get
some help and I went to a local psych
hospital, and knocked on the door

(48:48):
and asked him if they would help me.
Asked his psychiatrist and he talked
to me and told me no, he couldn't
help me and I couldn't come in.
And then he decided after talking to
me that, that he would see me, he'd
break the rules and he would let me
come a couple days a week and see him.
And then when I went to see him, after
once or twice he set me up with this
counselor, this guy named Conrad,
who was a fresh out of, I think he'd

(49:09):
just gotten his bachelor's degree.
I don't even think he was a, i, I don't
know what the, what the qualifications
were at that point to be a counselor.
But he didn't have a master's and.
It was the only thing that
I could think to do was find
somebody that I could talk to.
'cause I didn't know, you know, at least

(49:32):
I thought at least if I had a counselor,
I'd have somebody to talk to because
the women that I lived with, they just
thought I was kind of a nasty person.
Judy, what were you thinking?
The voices were up to that point.
I thought they were me.
I thought that they were,
that I was playing out my
self-image in my head constantly.
That I was nothing, that I'd never

(49:53):
be, anything that I had failed, that I
had done a lot of things wrong and I,
I had, as a teenager, I'd, I'd done a
lot of things I shouldn't have done.
So I had a lot of guilt and I
had tremendous, tremendous amount
of shame for the state of mind
and the state of life I was in.
That shame was so overwhelming.
So I was very defensive with people

(50:15):
because I had all that stuff playing out
all the time that I'm not good enough.
And so people could
really easily trigger me.
And I could get sort of nasty.
And so my roommates thought I was
sort of nasty and I went, you know,
so I went and I was seeing this
counselor and then I flunked out of the
secretarial school, but they found me

(50:35):
a job at a daily newspaper in Syracuse.
And I worked on the copy desk
type in computer codes when they
were going to computer type.
And and then one day the counselor got
really, he got very angry at me because he
kept wanting me to talk about how I felt.
And I had never, as a kid been
allowed to feel anything negative.
My dad wouldn't tolerate

(50:57):
negative feelings and he wouldn't
tolerate too many happy feelings.
And so, all my life, all I'd done,
every time I felt negative, I, I'd
press it down and I wouldn't feel it.
I, I'd bury it so that I
wouldn't have to deal with it.
'cause I was scared to
death of negative feelings.
I got.
So I didn't even recognize what they were.
So when he was asking me, how do you feel?

(51:19):
I didn't know how I felt.
I'd say, well, I don't know.
'cause I didn't know, I did not
know how I felt other than I was
completely overwhelmed and nuts.
I knew that, I knew I was nuts.
And so he got angry at me one day.
'cause he said, well, you're, if you're
not gonna talk about how you feel,
if you're not gonna talk about any
of this stuff, then I can't help you.
He said, so you have to decide.

(51:40):
And I said, I, I don't
know how to do this.
He says, well, I'll help you.
And I said, but I don't, I
don't know how to do this.
He said, well, you think about this.
He left the room.
He came back 10 minutes later,
he said, are you, are you
willing to follow me on this?
And he had decided that my
biggest problem was that I was
full of anger and resentment.
I think he found what he could deal with.

(52:01):
He couldn't deal with the schizophrenia.
He couldn't deal with the voices.
He couldn't deal, but he could
deal with the things that he found.
My anger, my resentment, my
bitterness, my unforgiveness.
I had so much unforgiveness towards
my family and friends who'd blown me
off, and boyfriends had blown me off.
I was a negative emotional
time bomb, basically.
And so he came back in the room

(52:22):
and I said, I, I don't know how
to do this, but, but I'll try.
I want to try.
So he began to get me to talk about
my childhood and my childhood trauma
and the things that had happened.
And these emotions started coming out.
And it was, it was like a, it
was like a horrible explosion.
Every time I saw 'em, it was, it was so

(52:43):
hard to, because what I always say is
they go down like warm water, and they
come up like glass, like shattered glass.
These emotions do, when you buried
them, they go down pretty easy.
And I could, I could push them
down almost to a physical level.
I think I actually pushed him down in
some places into a DNA level because

(53:03):
I actually in a lot of ways, destroyed
my nervous system during this period.
I have some problems now
with my nervous system.
Could be the drugs too,
Jerry, I don't know.
And so when that stuff started coming
up, it was explosive and it was horrible.
It was scary, it was so frightening.
But he worked me through all my

(53:23):
childhood trauma that, that we
could get to, that we could find.
And I found out later in life
there were more layers, but he at
least got me through the top layer.
And I began to get this junk out of me,
which is, I think that those entities
had set me up to create situations
that they knew I couldn't deal with.
So I would bury, you know, and

(53:43):
they had helped mold me and
framed me into this person.
I was, I say I was groomed, I was
groomed by these at a very young age.
So.
Conrad was helping me un groom get
all this out that I pushed down and
we went through this for months and
I would cry and cry and cry and cry.

(54:04):
And then what happened, Natalie,
is I began to feel like a person.
I began to feel I had value
as this stuff got out.
And I didn't realize at the time, and
I've thought about this a lot in the past
couple of months since I've met Jerry,
that that those months with Conrad were
the real groundwork work of getting free.

(54:27):
They, that was the, that was
the beginning of healing.
I didn't know it at the time, but it
was the beginning of healing because
they feed on that negative garbage.
And as I was getting this negative garbage
out, they had less and less to feed on.
So they were less and less
active in my life, and I could
begin to feel myself again.

(54:48):
It was an amazing thing 'cause it
was like, you know how it is that
there are days, I know I have days
and I'll be riding in the car and
I feel good and I put a song on and
I'm singing and I'm down and I feel
good and it's good to be alive there.
There are no, none of those
days in schizophrenia, there
is never any feeling good.
And when I started feeling good,

(55:10):
when I had a day where I felt good,
I thought, okay, I'm onto something.
I'm onto something.
Yeah.
Around that time, I, well, I was living
in this house, I was going to this
charismatic, Methodist church at Syracuse
University, and this woman came to speak
from Philadelphia, Reverend Evelyn Carter.
And she had been, she had been
on some Christian network.

(55:31):
She was pretty well known.
She had a book out.
I didn't know anything about her.
I don't even remember what she said,
but I sensed that she could help me.
So when church is over, I went home
and I called one of the elders and
I asked if I could come talk to her.
And they said, sure, come on over.
So I went over, and by this time
I was beginning to feel better.
I still had all the, still not all, I
still had a lot of the negative stuff

(55:51):
about myself, and I still had the attacks
where you have moments where, I mean,
it's on you, it's overwhelming, and, and
you just breathe your way through it.
And until it lets up a little bit,
I was still having some of that, but
at least I had a sense that, that,
that somebody inside me was alive.
That I was alive.
And so I went to talk to her
and I started telling her.

(56:12):
What was going on.
And she listened to me for a
minute or two and she put her
hand up and she said, stop.
And I said, what?
She says, I'll, I'll tell you what it is.
I'll tell you what you're dealing with.
And I thought, okay.
And she said, you're dealing with demons.
They're demons and they're talking to
you and they're telling you this and
they're trying to destroy you and show

(56:32):
me, you know, they come to kill, steal,
and destroy and you are the target.
And she said to me, are you a Christian?
I said, yes, I'm a Christian.
And, and, she said, well, then
they have no right to your life.
They can't take your life.
I said, you know, I'm thinking,
well, they have taken my life.
And she, and, and I don't remember
the whole conversation, but she
said, I'll teach you how to fight.

(56:53):
I'll teach you how to get rid of them.
And she asked, what
did what, what did you think
when she told you that?
You know, because a lot of
people are terrified of the truth
that these things are demons.
They don't want to hear that.
You know?
I had to be very careful
with that, that information.
Yeah, I wasn't so afraid of
that because I'd read, I, I had

(57:14):
been a Christian for a while.
I was a terrible Christian.
As a matter of fact, I
thought Jesus was a weakling.
This is what they told me.
He was a weakling.
He let people kill him.
Why?
Why are you reading the book?
You know, this guy's book who
allowed people to kill him?
You know, what kind of religion is this?
This is a religion for wimps.
And, but I had read enough of the
Bible to know that and, and to believe.

(57:36):
I did believe demons existed.
And I did see in scripture that, that
Jesus could cast out demons in work.
He could cast 'em out and they were gone.
And he did a lot of it.
I knew he did a lot of it.
So I wasn't so much afraid of that.
But I was, I was terrified by what
I was gonna have to do to get rid

(57:56):
of him because I had no power.
I knew I had no power.
I had never experienced power of God.
I didn't even know really, that in this
day and age that God had any power.
I. I knew the power of prayer, but
not the power over this kind of stuff.
So I was sort of terrified
and, and at the same time I was

(58:19):
thinking, well, this doesn't work.
It's over.
Hmm.
There's, there's, there's nothing else.
This is, this is it.
I really did believe that.
And at the same time I was, I was
kind of like, okay, you know, oh,
okay, we'll see if this works.
But I, I had nothing else.
So I said, okay.

(58:40):
So she said, when these attacks
come, take out this little book,
and the book was broken into
sections, you know, are you fearful?
Do you have worries?
Are you sick?
She said, find, find the section that
for whatever you're dealing with, it's
fear or worry, whatever she said, read
the, read the scripture out loud to 'em
and tell them, I belong to Jesus Christ.
You don't own me.

(59:01):
You have to go in the name of Jesus.
I'm commanding you to go get out of here.
And that's where I thought, oh
boy, it, it can't be that simple.
It, it can't, it can't be that simple.
It can't be that easy.
But I, but I thought, okay, I'll try it.
So I took my little Pocket Promise book
with me, and I went to work the next
day, or even that day, it might've been.

(59:23):
And I'm sitting at the copy desk and
these, these attacks would come and,
you know, the pressure and the, and the
thoughts and it would just overwhelm me.
So I grabbed my little book
and I ran to the ladies' room
and locked myself in a stall.
And I stood there and took out the book.
And I started reading about
scriptures, about fear.
And then I said, in the name of

(59:44):
Jesus Christ, go, 'cause you don't
own me and you can't do this to me.
I belong to Jesus.
And like that, boom, they left.
And the whole dimension my head was
in, had been in for three years, left.
It broke.
So at that moment, I was allowed
to come out of that door and slam
it behind me because I was free.

(01:00:05):
But they tested me for a couple months.
So I went through several
months of doing this.
Sometimes once a day, sometimes
probably 10 times a day.
But once I realized that I had power and
I had authority, and I learned later,
you know, it says in the Bible that God's
given us authority over all the power
of the enemy and nothing will hurt us.

(01:00:26):
I had never heard that, didn't
know it, didn't even realize it.
Then I didn't read that
till many years later.
And, but once I realized I had authority,
I power in Jesus' name, it was like, okay,
I'm, I'm gonna go to the end with this.
I'm gonna fight this out to the end.
And I did.
And little by little over a period of
couple months, it got less and it got

(01:00:46):
less and it got less and it got less.
And then my counselor said, well, and,
and he didn't, I didn't tell him what
I was doing, and I didn't tell him
I was reading scripture to demons.
I, I didn't think he'd get that part.
So finally, but I was doing better.
And he said, I, you need
to get off the drugs.
That terrified me.
I thought, oh my God, if I get off
these drugs, what's gonna happen to me?

(01:01:07):
What if this all comes back?
What if, what if, what if?
What if?
What if I went into a state of complete
panic, terror, and fear, and I lived
in that for, you know, a couple days.
And then I thought,
you know what, why not?
You know, I've gotten this far.
I don't wanna be on these drugs forever.

(01:01:27):
I'm gonna do it.
So I did it and it took
about two, three days.
I don't remember exactly how long.
And I went through terrible
withdrawals with shaky and sweating
and, and, fear and anxiety attacks.
And and then I woke up, on Easter morning
in 1974 and I got up that morning and

(01:01:49):
started to down my life to go to church.
And I realized it was all gone.
The drugs had cleared all that
fogginess from the drugs, all that.
'cause they do, they just.
Pull you down into slow kind
of snail mode mo emotionally.
And they, and they, they dull
your emotions so much that there's

(01:02:09):
nothing bright in your life.
There's nothing that pops.
It's all very dull.
There's no color.
And I woke up that morning and the color
and my life was back and my mind was
free and my body was free and I was free.
Mm. And I was shocked.
I was absolutely shocked.
But I was so thankful.

(01:02:32):
I can't tell you how thankful I
was to get free because I didn't
think I would ever get out of that.
And then I, then I, you know,
was able to get on with my
life and begin to build a life.
But I had to, Natalie still deal with
a lot of the trauma and triggers.
'cause there still was
stuff that went off.
So you learn that and, and there

(01:02:52):
was still spiritual warfare because
they're around there, they're
whispering in everybody's ear.
They will come and tell you
all kinds of things in moments.
You know, you walk into the
room and they'll think, oh,
everybody's looking at you.
I've learned that all, all
negative thoughts come from
them All.
From them.
Yes.

(01:03:13):
And, and all of us are being hit.
Yeah.
Nobody escapes it
for a while.
They have me convinced.
As I was going through this process of
getting outta my life for a while, I
was convinced that some of the negative
was them, and some of them was me.
It took me a long time to realize that
everything negative was from them.
So now in my life, anything negative

(01:03:34):
comes, I just tear it down, dismiss it.
I said, Nope, not coming in goodbye.
I don't, I don't allow anything
negative to dwell in my thoughts.
And I've, and I've learned that if
something comes and I just tear it down,
the name of Jesus, tell it, go be gone.
Not gonna entertain you.
Uh.
And if they've come and they bring

(01:03:55):
with an emotion, which some of it
does, will bring the negative emotion
with the negative thought, the
negative emotion will go as well.
You know, if I, if I put in something
good instead and I start thinking on
the good things, which is good and
right, and true and honorable and
pure, if I start focusing on that,
usually within less than a minute, the
thoughts change and the emotions change.

(01:04:18):
But it's taken, you know, it's taken
a lifetime to figure and unravel all
this because after the voices were
gone and I was out of that dimension,
I still had so much in my life to
deal with because they, they train
you, they groom you to think, so then
you've got to change all your thinking.
And that was, that became my life.

(01:04:39):
Work was changing all my thinking and.
I had so many negative opinions
about myself and about other people.
I was, I was a total kind of
negative blob when I got out of that.
So I had to start rebuilding
my mind basically, because they

(01:04:59):
had to some, to some degree,
they had shattered parts of me.
They'd shatter, not me, but
they shattered the truth.
They shattered the truth of who I was.
So I had to rediscover that.
And that's why I say to people, you know,
if you want to come outta schizophrenia,
it's, it's, it's, it's a job.

(01:05:19):
It's a, it's a full-time job for a while
to restore, to be restored to who you
really are, to become who you really are,
and to tear down all that negative stuff.
But once you get out of their power
and you get out of them running
your life, then you're free to heal.
So you deal with the spiritual first,
and you eliminate the spiritual garbage

(01:05:41):
then, then you can deal with the healing.
Yeah, which is what I did.
Do you do, do you, do you have
any questions that these things
were negative demonic entities?
Do you have any doubt about that at all?
No.
No,
no, no, no.
Neither do I.
You can feel them.

(01:06:01):
Well, Jerry, you felt them.
You, you can feel them.
I felt them.
They're icky, icky electrical feeling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can feel their presence and they
press down and they oppress physically
as well as emotionally and mentally.
Like now, if I go through a spiritual
battle, there are times you go through
a spiritual battle and they'll paralyzed
your mind and, and your mind will be
paralyzed until you push them out again.

(01:06:24):
And then mine's clear again.
Right.
So I I, no, I have no doubt.
At first I didn't, I
didn't know what they were,
but no, I had no doubt.
And what, what do you think about
psychiatry telling the world that
these are, auditory hallucinations?
They don't exist.
Well, they're very smart

(01:06:45):
if they're hallucinations.
They're very cogent.
And they're very deliberate.
And they're very, sentient.
Yeah, sentient.
They have, they have a program.
Yes.
They, they, you know, the devil sifts us.
He knows us.
He knows all our weaknesses.
When these things, when I allowed

(01:07:05):
these things to come into my life,
they already knew all my weaknesses.
They knew exactly how to destroy me, and
they went for every weakness in my life.
They knew that I was traumatized.
They knew that I had a bad self image.
They knew that I could be suicidal.
They knew everything about me, and
they played on that methodically and

(01:07:25):
very intelligently to wear me down to
the point that by the time I got to
Syracuse, I didn't have much life in me.
If, if something hadn't changed
in Syracuse, I would've been
gone by the end of that year.
I would not have been able.
Physically or mentally to survive.
So they're, they have a very
intelligent program and it's very,

(01:07:48):
very, deliberate for each person for
exactly how they can take 'em down
and it runs fixed patterns.
Mm-hmm.
So they, if it's running fixed
patterns, they can't be hallucinations
as a psychiatric mafia has hoodwinked
the entire planet to believe.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Well, and this is what continues to

(01:08:10):
keep that system of, I would say, you
know, I have a lot of different, you
know, words of inorganic, synthetic,
you know, horrific low frequency, people
say black magick, however you want to
put it, to keep those systems running
mm-hmm.
Is
by continuously telling people

(01:08:31):
that this is all in your mind.
It's you, your broken
and you need to own it.
Like, own your shit essentially when
it's like, I'm sorry, that is not mine.
That is not mine.
And especially when you think, like
back you, when you were saying, you
know, the trauma that you were born
into, that how it's the grooming of

(01:08:51):
keeping generations, keeping lineages, I
would say, in that trauma consistently.
So, you know, I would look at you
and say, you are a cycle breaker.
Mm-hmm.
That broke that lineage.
And, and you freed your lineage
really from that trauma that
could have been looping.
It's like a loop, a looping

(01:09:12):
pattern, you know, of that lineage.
It's, which is, is not just
like a whole other layer to it.
And if you look at these patterns
and you compare them to what we've
been being hit with by the mainstream
media over decades and decades,
they're the exact same patterns.
You know, what's coming out of the

(01:09:33):
mainstream media is the same kind of
stuff that schizophrenics here, you know,
total negativity, anti-religious stuff.
They're burning down churches
all over France right now.
You know, they foster and create
negative feelings and fear and paranoia.
You know it Yeah.
It's the same patterns.
Mm-hmm.
It's,

(01:09:54):
yeah.
The thing too that I wanna tell you,
Natalie, for people who are listening
there is, and Jerry did mention this real
briefly, there is a tremendous aloneness,
a tremendous, being kind of cordoned
off from the rest of the world where
you're, you're in this world by yourself

(01:10:15):
and nobody can get in, and you can't let
anybody get in and nobody can touch you.
Nobody can touch your heart.
They people can tell you they love you.
You can't even feel it.
You can't feel mm-hmm.
Any of the good emotions coming at you.
You can't feel the love.
You know, I had friends who loved
me, thought I was the greatest
thing, and to me, I was like a rock.

(01:10:38):
I could not feel it.
I could not receive it.
I think that that aloneness itself
is one of the most horrendous parts.
Yeah.
Because that aloneness is as
much a torment as the fear
is because you are abandoned.
You know?
It's what, like Jerry was saying
one time, you know, abandoned
hope all will enter Here.
You do, you're you're totally abandoned

(01:10:58):
and, and, and you've abandoned hope.
And the, the, the psychiatric
community is feeding you despair,
you know, pills and despair.
Yeah.
That's their prescription.
And you, and, and you live
on that to some degree.
When that first happened,
I mean, I, I got into it.
Okay.
I'm schizophrenic.
I, let's, let's get into it.
It was like.

(01:11:19):
And there's nothing for me.
Okay, well let's explore that.
Let's, let's go with that.
It was like a game at first, you know?
It's like, oh, now I have an answer.
Now I know what I am.
I'm schizophrenic.
I thought that my personality had,
had shattered into a lot of different,
and these voices were parts of me that
had broken off that were talking to
me to try to put me back together.

(01:11:41):
There was no way they could
have put me back together.
They were all negative.
Right?
But that, that, that loneliness,
that being alone, that having nobody
to help you, that being abandoned
by not because people choose to
abandon, but because of the dimension
you're in, you're totally abandoned.
I, I can't explain what
that is like for people.

(01:12:02):
And it is worth doing whatever
you have to do to get out of
it, to get out of, out of that.
I would never, ever again
want to experience that.
Judy, do you feel that your psychiatrist
that you dealt with did, did they have any
idea of what you were truly going through?
No.

(01:12:23):
And he didn't seem that
interested in knowing Jerry?
Yeah.
They didn't ask any questions.
They're not curious.
No.
He wanted to know.
He wanted to know was I
suicidal or homicidal that week?
That's it.
Yep.
And did I need pills?
And basically, okay, you're
still in the same place and
okay, everything's the same.
They just wanna make sure everything's

(01:12:44):
the same, that you are not gonna go out
and kill yourself or kill somebody else.
That's really the big thing.
Did he ever try to understand
what was going on with you?
He was so convinced that it was
a chemical, you know, imbalance.
Imbalance.
A lie that he'd been told.
That's what he'd been told.
And he had been, he had worked on a

(01:13:04):
ward with, schizophrenic women at Marcy
State Hospital in upstate New York.
And so that's what he'd been told.
And so that's all he believed.
And he knew he was, he knew
he wasn't gonna fix me.
And he told me, you're gonna
have to live with this.
Learn to live with it.
That learning to live with it part is,
is such a, a, a, a damning statement.
Yes.

(01:13:24):
You live with it.
Yes.
Very hopeless.
It is a hopeless, damning statement is
a worse thing you can tell somebody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That there is no hope.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they're so quick to, you know, this
happens in all of the medical communities,
the mainstream medical communities.
We could talk about
hospitals in the same regard.

(01:13:45):
It's, what's the diagnosis?
You know, let's at least, you know,
and it's, and it's just symptom,
symptoms, symptoms, symptoms, symptoms.
Instead of looking at.
Hey, is anybody at like, you know,
Jerry, this is why, you know, I
really, you know, love your energy of
like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Why?
Just one question.
Yeah.
Why?
Can we please ask why?

(01:14:05):
Mm-hmm.
Why is there inflammation?
Why is there, is this
person hearing voices?
What are these?
I mean, like, it's like, it's like
all of common sense is just ripped
out of these people's souls, right?
It's crazy.
And why
don't they ever ask the questions?
Where do thoughts come from?
Mm-hmm.
Right?
They never ask that question.

(01:14:26):
They never investigate that question.
They never research it.
They don't even bring it up, up.
They just assume they're all from you.
They're not.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
You know,
so anybody who's, who's gonna recover
from schizophrenia needs to understand
that these voices are not them.
They don't belong to them.
You know Exactly that.

(01:14:46):
They're something coming
in from the outside.
Yeah.
If you keep thinking it's you and
you believe the lies, psychiatry
says you're never gonna recover.
Exactly.
Well, and you know, the spiritual
community sometimes in isn't much
better in that regard because again,
it's taking, you know, I've heard
this said so many times, and I've

(01:15:07):
heard people regurgitate the words of
saying, you know, if you're, if all,
if you're in this state of negativity,
you created it, you created it all.
So you, it's on you and you
need to take responsibility.
And while there's a lot of truths
in, in that, in some degree, it's
also like, well, wait a minute.
What is happening?
What's really the situation?

(01:15:28):
Are there voices that are coming in
that are ripping and anchoring that
soul into all of the lowest of low
frequencies and conscious, you know,
feelings like the, again, anger, despair,
hopelessness, you know, all of that stuff.
And that often is not looked at either.
Even in, you know, what should be more of

(01:15:49):
that conversation around open-mindedness
and open-heartedness to really see
what, what is really happening here.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And, and what are the voices saying?
You won't find any of them.
Yeah.
They, they have no interest whatsoever.
And what these voices are telling
schizophrenics, if they did, they would
see the same patterns that I found.

(01:16:10):
You know, they're repeatable,
consistent patterns.
They don't change.
It's like these voices were made
in some cosmic cookie cutter
somewhere with the same program.
Right.
Well, and they don't, they don't
deal with anything being spiritual.
They don't, no, we don't
accept the spiritual realm.
I mean, yeah.
You know, in the time that, that the New

(01:16:31):
Testament was written, it was common.
They were cast in demons out.
There were people who
were, who were tormented.
There were people who were
crazy foaming at the mouth.
There were people crawling
around in their hands and knees.
There were, it was so common.
And it was known.
It was known, yes, that there were demonic
entities that were affecting these people.

(01:16:51):
But psychiatry and medicine, you know,
they don't deal with the spiritual realm.
Right.
And, and this is a spiritual problem.
It is a spiritual problem.
It is, it's a
spiritual battle.
It's a spiritual battle.
It's a spiritual problem.
And, you know, until I got past all that
negative junk that I had stored up in

(01:17:12):
me, until I got rid of all that stuff, I,
nobody could have convinced me that this
wasn't just all me and that it was just
that I had shattered and I was a mess.
And I was crazy.
I was convinced I was crazy.
I mean, I go around and
tell people I was crazy.
I'm crazy.
I told I one year when
I went back to school.
I had a roommate and I had my

(01:17:33):
pills on my dresser, and she
goes, oh, what's that for?
I said, well, I'm crazy.
I'm schizophrenic.
Well, she about dropped her teeth.
Yeah, I think she wanted
to go find a new roommate.
I said, it's okay.
I won't hurt you.
But you know, there was no convincing
me that it wasn't me and I wasn't
nuts until I could begin again to feel
something of my heart and something of my

(01:17:55):
spirit, something of my innermost part.
And when I could feel that and
realize there's a part of me
that's totally intact, then I
realized maybe this isn't just me.
Maybe this isn't just me.
Maybe I, maybe I didn't
make all this happen.
And that's why Jerry, when I met that
woman from Philadelphia, was like,

(01:18:17):
Hey, you know, this could be it.
This could be it.
And it was.
It was it.
You know?
She knew exactly how to deal with it.
These things are energetic.
They're negative, energetic beings.
Yeah, they, they can, they
can go into your mind.
They can, they can see all the
rotten stuff that you've done, and
they could throw it in your face.
So what psychiatrists doing is it's

(01:18:38):
like getting a magnetic field on
a big magnet and dumping Thorazine
and Meri and all those drugs on that
magnetic field and thinking they're
gonna get rid of that magnetic field.
This is an energetic illness.
It's a spiritual illness, right?
It's not gonna go away by dumping
drugs on the magnetic field.

(01:18:58):
It may gum up that magnetic field
and weaken it temporarily, but
it's not gonna cure the problem.
No.
And if anything, again, make it worse.
Yes.
Because then you can't even get out
of that feeling of like, that miasma,
that goo, that's just like, you
know, covering the ability to even
deal on any level or layer really.

(01:19:20):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
They're doing a lot more damage in
the long run then they're doing good.
You know?
Yes.
More people recover without those
drugs than they do with 'em.
You know, it's, it's lie after
lie after lie that they're
perpetuating on the planet.
Right.
You know, psychiatry and big pharma
are one of the most diabolical

(01:19:40):
organizations there is on this planet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that list is long list
of
diabolical government.
Were
you gonna gonna say something?
Oh yeah, I, you know, I, I really
loved a moment, that you explained
that I think would be really powerful

(01:20:00):
to tap into, before we close, 'cause
I know, we could, I could talk, we
could talk for a very, very long time.
I mean, this is powerful wisdom.
So, but, I, so again, I'll kind of
from my lens, like hearing you, it was
like a, when you cracked open, like you
cracked out of that demen, out of that

(01:20:20):
low realm, that low frequency realm of.
I mean, that's what I think, you
know, we've called hell, right?
It's really, yeah.
But call it whatever, low, low
realm, low frequency realm.
And you felt that crack and you felt like,
I would say divine love being poured in of

(01:20:41):
like, oh, hi, I am a soul and I am here.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe you could talk about that for
a moment, you know, and how that lift
that just lifted everything in your
spirit as much as, as you can remember.
You know, one of the thing that I didn't
talk about that fits in with this is that
I went through a period while I was in
counseling of forgiving, and I don't know

(01:21:05):
why it was such a big thing, but for me.
The forgiving my parents
for what they'd done.
My brother and sisters for
what I felt they had done.
The world, the world, the
people, the people who stood by.
Big one for me was the people who
stood by when I was a kid and knew
that I was sinking and did nothing.
School counselor, teachers, I had 1,

(01:21:27):
1, 1 friend whose mother helped me.
She'd let me get out, she'd let
me come stay with him for a week
and get out of the house so I
could, I could get grounded again.
But when I went through that period
of forgiveness, that forgiveness was
such, that was the beginning of the
crack when I let go of my hatred.
And I hated a lot of people.

(01:21:48):
I mean, I, I was bitter and
hateful towards a lot of people.
Especially towards a lot of the people
who didn't really understand what I've
been going through, who didn't like me.
But when you're schizophrenic, and
I always say, you know, when you're
nuts, you do nutty things and you
say stupid things and they don't
understand where you're coming from
because you're never consistent.
You can be one thing one day and

(01:22:10):
and something else the next day.
They never know what the,
you are unpredictable.
And I had a hard time with the people.
There are still people that I could
contact now on Facebook who knew me
back then if I contacted them, would
would just say, I'm sorry, I don't
really wanna have a discussion with you.
You know?
And so there was a lot of stigma.

(01:22:31):
A lot of it I brought on my own.
A lot of it was just they don't
understand, but that forgiveness and
letting those people go, freeing them.
But basically I was freeing myself
from them and freeing myself
from all that unforgiveness.
That was Natalie.
That was the biggest wreck.
And after that went, then went the
resentment and the bitterness and the,

(01:22:51):
and the hatred that all came after that.
But that forgiveness was so
huge, and that's where, that's
where the light came in.
That forgiveness brought light, it
opened the door, cracked open the door.
And when that light comes in and you see
that there is life and that you still have
life in you, and you're still alive in

(01:23:12):
your soul and you're good, you know, then,
then it gets easier to crack that door.
Then it gets easier to start tearing
this other stuff down because you
think, okay, there's some, this is good.
If I have to sit and cry two hours
a day, three times a week in order
to get to the good, I'll do it.
And you do it.
And, and, but the thing I've seen

(01:23:33):
with people who, who are dealing with
this kind of stuff, they, they fear
the things that they're gonna have
to go through to get well, they fear.
Yeah.
They fear it and so they run
from it because it's, it's work.
I mean, Jerry knows
that it's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work I have spent my
whole life just as things have come up

(01:23:55):
that have negative tearing him down.
But, and it never, it never seems to end.
But I think that's
probably true of all this.
There's always something coming,
but I still find things inside me.
Like the other day, I, I went to a,
a bible study and I'm sitting in the
room and I thought, I don't fit in.
And I thought, well,
where did that come from?
And I thought, oh, so I followed it.
I don't fit in because I'm overweight,

(01:24:17):
I don't fit in because I have a
bad background, I don't fit in.
And I listed all the things I, and
then I just tore them down and I said,
no, I'm not gonna have that anymore.
But I still find those things
because there was so much
buried, it still comes up.
And so that's kind of my life work.
I mean, it's not like I do
it every minute, every day.
Maybe I. Once or twice a month,

(01:24:37):
something will pop up like that and
I'll go, oh, isn't that interesting?
That's what I found
is these things are consummate liars.
Mm-hmm.
They, they don't, they will tell
you any lie that you will buy.
Mm-hmm.
And, and the purpose of the lies is
to generate that negative emotional
energy that they can suck off you.
Mm-hmm.
So
if you use the, that's a lie program

(01:24:58):
on my website, you, that helps
normal people too, because, you
know, 98% of that garbage coming
into your mind is abject lies.
Ju just like, judo was saying, you
know, oh, I'm too fat or I'm dead.
I don't belong here.
It's all lies.
Mm-hmm.
You know, so if you confront
those lies and say that's a lie,
then you're not resisting it.
Mm-hmm.

(01:25:18):
Because if you're resisting,
it takes your energy.
But if you know it's a lie, they
can't get their claws in you.
Yeah.
You just say, that's a lie.
Get outta my face.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Strong, strong boundaries.
Strong boundaries of, and that's,
you know, I, I really see this
as every one of those lies is
just trying to strip the divine

(01:25:38):
mm-hmm.
Source god creator, like out of us,
you know, and to, to close off from
the light more and more and more.
Yeah.
So one of the first things I
noticed at the state hospital is
these things were anti-religious.
They absolutely hated the 23rd Psalm.
One patient told me when I repeated
the 23rd Psalm, the voices reacted

(01:25:58):
like worms thrown on a hot frying pan.
They hated 23rd psalm.
They hated Psalm 91.
They didn't like these
guys reading the Bible.
They didn't like them going to church.
What kind of hallucination would do that?
Right?
Yeah.
And the fact, again, like you
said, so how is it everyone has
the same exact hall hallucination?
That's handy.

(01:26:18):
That's, yeah.
They run the same,
yeah, they run the same
patterns over and over.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and they have a personality.
I mean, I knew that when the voices first
started talking to me of the four voices,
they, they had distinct personalities.
They were individuals.
That was what was so confusing.

(01:26:40):
That's why I thought, okay, I've
shattered now I'm four people plus me.
So now I'm five people.
I'm not one, because they're
distinct personalities.
And I spent a lot of time thinking
about the personalities and the parts
of them that were me, and what parts
of me went with what personality.
Because I was convinced it was me.
And, it was quite something to

(01:27:00):
discover that I wasn't shattered,
you know, to spend all that time
thinking, I'm shattered, I'm
destroyed, and then realizing, no, the
shattering is what's going on outside.
What's, what's working on me?
It's not what's in me and coming out,
it's what's being laid on me every day.
Is that shattering,
which is the opposite of what
psychiatry is telling the planet.

(01:27:22):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Exactly, which is literally
the, the, the exact opposite,
right?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, is there any other
final thoughts before we close
that you'd like to drop in?
I mean, I'm sure there's lots, but
Well, yeah, there's, you know, there's

(01:27:44):
a new psychotherapy that came out.
It's an energetic psychotherapy.
It's called the Mace Energy system.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
It, it works, it will get rid of a lot
of this stuff permanently, you know?
Mm-hmm.
That doesn't get rid of schizophrenic
schizophrenia, but it will get rid of
the stuff that these things feed off of.
Hmm.
So before you go taking any of these

(01:28:05):
toxic psychiatric drugs, you know,
go to causisminstitute.com and see if
you can't find a mace therapist there.
It's CAUS ISM institute.com.
There's, there's a list of them there.
Okay.
Yeah.
And Judy, for you,

(01:28:28):
you know, my last thought is
this, there is freedom from this.
For me it's Christianity, it's
Christ, you know, scripture says
Christ came to set the captives free.
And I was a captive.
I mean, I was a captive.
And I asked, and I asked, and I asked, and
I prayed for freedom and he gave it to me.
If he did it for me,

(01:28:49):
he'll do it for anyone.
Mm-hmm.
With the caveat that it's work.
It is work.
Some people think, you know,
you got a magick wand, boom,
boom, you're gonna be better.
That's not how life works.
That's not how anything in life works.
It's not how this works.
It takes time, it takes energy, it takes
work, it takes, it takes commitment.
It takes real commitment.
But it can be done.

(01:29:11):
Yes,
it can be done.
And I've, I've met so many
people who there's so.
Afraid to go there.
I have one friend who's,
who's mentally ill.
He's not schizophrenic, but
he is, he's got some problems.
And when I explained to him was
I, I wrote a book, about getting
free and I get sent him a copy of
the book and he got so mad at me.

(01:29:31):
He got so mad at me for telling
him that he could get free.
'cause that meant he would lose his
disability and he would lose his identity
and he would lose his ability to play
the games that he plays with people.
'cause he's a big game player.
And he just cut me out of his life.
He did not wanna hear it, didn't
hear it because he was enjoying, he

(01:29:54):
was enjoying his sickness too much.
But I know there's people out
there that wanna get free.
There is freedom, you know, ask.
Yeah.
It is not a life sentence as,
as psychiatry is telling you.
Mm-hmm.
It you, you can break out of it.
Right.
But you know, the eventual, you're, you're
gonna have to turn on into a positive

(01:30:14):
spiritual direction and stay there.
Mm-hmm.
You
know?
Absolutely.
It's, that's, that's the bottom line.
You know, it's kind of like Judy's story.
Yeah.
You have to realize that there is a God,
there is Jesus, there's guardian angels.
They're there to help you.
You have to ask.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And if you seek, if you
seek, he will respond.

(01:30:37):
People say to me, well, how do you know?
How do you know?
And I said, 'cause he says, if you seek
me with all my heart, you'll find me.
If you seek him with all your
heart, you're gonna find him.
I saw all my heart.
I cried out.
I found him.
And, and I was determined.
I was determined to get well.
I didn't like being mentally ill.
I didn't like it.
I didn't like anything about it.
I had, I'd had plans for my life.

(01:30:58):
There were things I wanted to do.
I wanted to have a family, and I didn't
want this taking everything I had.
And they take everything you have.
Yeah.
And that's why I fought.
Because I, I didn't want less than
what I dreamed my life could be.
And this stuff wants you
to give up all your dreams.
They want you to give up.
Give up, abandon hope.

(01:31:20):
Don't abandon hope.
So I say to people, don't give up.
Never.
Yeah.
Give up.
Is Judy your book available?
Can people Yeah.
It's on Amazon.
I have a website and they can
go there and they can read a
sample chapter if they want.
Oh, beautiful.
It's a Christian book.
So, you know, some people might
like that and some people might not.

(01:31:40):
So I tell 'em the head of head of time.
But my, my website is
strategiesforovercomers.com and it's
just a book about becoming mature and
learning how to fight these battles and
learning how to manage your own mind.
Yes.
And how to manage your emotions
and how to manage your life.
Beautiful.
So, yeah, they can, they can read

(01:32:01):
a sample chapter and they can
click through there to Amazon.
Cool.
Brilliant.
Yeah.
And it takes bravery and
courage, doesn't it?
Yeah, it does.
I was riding in the court today and I
was thinking, you know, God, why me?
Why me?
And you know what the answer I
got, the answer was you asked.
And I thought, well, that
just seems so darn simple.

(01:32:22):
But I asked and I asked and I asked,
and I asked, and I asked, you know?
Yes.
So
yes
asking and you shall receive, right?
Yeah.
That's how that goes as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Might not come in the package.
You expect it, you know?
But I think that's true of
life with anything, nothing is
what we think it's gonna be.

(01:32:42):
It'll come in its own way.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
And if, if you wanna find how we came,
Sherry and I came to the conclusion
that, that these voices are not
hallucinations, but are actual entities.
I. You can go to my website and
I, I don't see myself, so I don't
know if you guys can see this.

(01:33:02):
Yeah.
Yes, we can.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's a good book.
I've read it.
It's a great book.
It's,
yeah.
It'll, it'll tell you for certain,
these things are not hallucinations
like psychiatry says they are.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And they're now, you
know, this is the beauty.
There are resources and places
for people to go to know that

(01:33:24):
they're not alone in this.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, this, that's the
beautiful thing about coming
together in conversations like today.
So thank you so much for doing this,
especially on a Saturday and taking your
time.
Well, thanks for having me.
I, I, I'm really thankful you let
me tell my story and I hope, I

(01:33:45):
hope even if it helps one person,
it's worth it and I hope it does.
Absolutely.
It will.
It will.
It'll, it
will,
yeah.
It takes a lot of courage
to do what you're doing.
Does.
Well, it's nerve wracking,
I'll tell you that.
It is, it's nerve wracking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's being vulnerable too, you

(01:34:06):
know, and that's, that's another layer and
level I think that, you know, just being
vulnerable and vulnerable and open to
talk about all this is so ooh, so vital.
Because then people know,
oh, oh, wait a minute.
You know, I, that resonates with me.
I need to, I need to know more, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

(01:34:26):
Yeah.
You'll be helping thousands
and thousands of people, Judy.
Yeah.
Well, I hope so.
Yeah.
So,
well, thank you.
They can,
they can feel your sincerity.
Yeah.
Well, I don't want anybody to have to
go there and spend time there, you know?
Yeah.
It's, it's a hell, like
Natalie said, it is.
Hell yeah, it is hell.

(01:34:47):
And nobody should spend
time and hell exactly.
I mean, unless they want to,
well, there are people who do.
Yeah, sure.
Like you just mentioned.
I mean, that is a very important thing
to me, you know, not that is, and, you
know, doing the work that I'm doing,
doing the work that we're doing in

(01:35:07):
any way, you know, it's like there
is a layer of this, this, that, like
the, the human needs to really want to
mm-hmm.
To
not want it to be in that victimhood
hood, not to be in that victim state.
And that's hard to see sometimes, or
even to feel out because it's like, why?
You know, but again, it's
dropping the seeds and then

(01:35:29):
mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Deliver deliverances for the desperate,
you know, I, I counsel people,
women mostly, and I have people
come to me and, and you figure out
pretty quick who really wants help.
And the ones that don't,
I don't spend my time on.
Exactly.
You know, I quietly let 'em go because
it's a waste of my time because then it

(01:35:49):
becomes their game and it's becomes their
game for attention in a, in a lot of ways.
Yep.
They have to really want it.
Exactly.
Alright, well thank you you both so
much again for coming on and you know, I
open, have an open invitation for us to
speak more in the future because this is

(01:36:09):
again, a very vital conversation to have.
And again, thank you so much.
Well thank you for having us.
Thank you for listening to
the Disrupt Now podcast.
Please leave us a review.
Also, if you want to get these episodes to
your inbox, go to disrupt now podcast.com

(01:36:32):
and you can drop your email in.
You can also see all of
the episodes since day one.
If you wanna drop a line, email
us at info@natalieviglione.com.
Thank you for being here on this
journey to awaken the magick again.

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