November 14, 2025 • 53 mins
In this powerful call-in episode of Dr. Judy WTF, Dr. Judy unpacks the difference between being in love and truly loving someone. She explains why the dopamine-filled highs of infatuation can feel like a drug, why those “butterflies” rarely last, and how real love is built on stability, shared values, and emotional safety. Using her Mind Map® system and attachment theory, Dr. Judy traces how childhood wounds, “holes in the soul,” and inconsistent parenting create anxious and avoidant attachment styles that play out in adult relationships.
A courageous caller shares how growing up with emotionally unavailable parents led him to repeatedly fall for partners who don’t have time for him. Dr. Judy walks him through her “What the Freud”® repetition principle—why we keep choosing rejecters and secretly hope they will finally heal our original pain. She also explores whether the in-love feeling can come back in long-term relationships, how to rekindle sparks with date nights, play, sex, and shared growth, and why becoming the cause of your healing (instead of at the effect of others) is the real path to healthy, mature love.
A courageous caller shares how growing up with emotionally unavailable parents led him to repeatedly fall for partners who don’t have time for him. Dr. Judy walks him through her “What the Freud”® repetition principle—why we keep choosing rejecters and secretly hope they will finally heal our original pain. She also explores whether the in-love feeling can come back in long-term relationships, how to rekindle sparks with date nights, play, sex, and shared growth, and why becoming the cause of your healing (instead of at the effect of others) is the real path to healthy, mature love.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Hello, Hello, everyone, and thank you so much for tuning in.
Dr Judy here, Doctor Judy W t F. Tonight's topic
is love versus in love, and I want to hear
from you. It's so much more interesting to have live
discussion rather than monologue. So I invite you to call in.
(01:08):
This is a call and show everybody. Three two three
five two four two five nine nine three two three
five two four two five nine nine. So we're going
to talk about the difference between in love and love.
So one is very dopamine filled. So which one do
(01:29):
you think that is? The love or the in love,
the stable love or the unstable in love? Because as
we have all experienced, or most of us humans have,
we have all been in love only to find that
there is no love behind it, there is no safety
(01:52):
behind it, there's no commitment behind it, and it is
a temporary feeling fades out in a short while. Maybe
if you're lucky, won two years, and then then we
hit a bottom of well what are we going to do?
The butterflies are gone? So now what? So I want
(02:14):
to bring up a professor that I had as a
supervisor many years ago. His name was doctor Walter Brockleman's.
He was a psychiatrist and he worked at UCLA and
he had an intensive couple's program and he would therapies
literally tens of thousands of couples, and he would tape
(02:37):
the sessions and delve deep into their psyche and see
what the problem was. And you know, I do the
same thing, although I have a different method, as some
of you know, I have my mind map method. But
I used to tease him. I used to say to him, Hey, Walt,
are you in love with your wife yet? And he goes,
(02:58):
are you kidding me? In love with my wife? Are
you serious? Do you think I want the ups and
downs of those emotions? Do you think I want to
be in a roller coaster situation? Do you want my
life to be just a series of highs and lows
and devons stations and dopamine? And I thought about that,
(03:22):
and I thought, that's an interesting answer to my question.
He said, but look, I love my wife. I love
my wife. She is an amazing person, where amazing partners,
and we have a great family and we have a
lot of stability. And that stuck with me for a
(03:45):
very long time, obviously till today, because I'm bringing it up,
So what is this difference? Have you ever experienced being
in love only to find out that pretty soon you
or your partner out of love? So what's this business
of falling in and falling out? Doesn't that tell you
(04:07):
something about the stability of being the instability of being
in love? So other people might say, but hey, isn't
it necessary for that spark to happen? Don't you have
to have a connection, and a romantic one at that,
(04:27):
and have that splurge of dopamine or whatever the drug
is that that fills your body and makes the sparks happen.
Isn't that necessary? And I would say, yeah, that's pretty
nice when that happens, and that is a prerequisite for
motivating somebody to go deeper. However, before you build a
(04:53):
life in love, you have to see if there is
going to be a foundation for love. So what is
the difference. Let's let's talk about it from a mind
map perspective, and let's talk about it from attachment theory.
So let's bring up panel number one, wounds of childhood. So,
(05:17):
as you've often heard me speak about this, wounds of
childhood are all the things that injure us verbal abuse,
physical abuse, sexual abuse, smothering, narcissistic parents, controlling parents. Okay,
so these are all the aspects of our injuries. So
(05:39):
when we are injured, we develop what I refer to
as a hole in the soul. And if you guys
want to read more about this, then I give away
my pdf book be The Cost Healing Human disconnector where
you could buy it online at Amazon and have the
actual copy of the book. But I do encourage you
(06:01):
to read it, especially if you're trying to understand my
mind map, because all of the dots, as you can
see from the DNA strand do connect, and I do
show you a system system gone wrong to a system
gone right. So okay, so we're injured. Yeah, everybody's injured
on one level or another, some deeper than others. But
(06:23):
this hole in the soul, this deficit, lingers on and
creates reactions. And these reactions might entail pain. Either we
bleed out, we shut down. If we're bleeding too much,
we might flee, fight, freeze, fall. These are reactions to
(06:47):
the wound. The animal is wounded, he will or she
will fight, flight, flee, freeze, or fawn. And we do
the same thing and I'm talking about not only physically
but emotionally. So now we need a partner. So let's
look at panel number three and look at that DNA
(07:09):
strand and take a look at what's going on there.
So now we are partnered up. And so what is
that What is that DNA strand that's doing a dance? Well,
what are we doing glue together in the first place? Well,
it could come from the idea that we are not
(07:32):
whole and complete, and now we need somebody to complete us. Okay,
So let's say that you're the blue strand and along
comes your pink strand and then you feel the sparks.
Why do you feel the sparks? Well, wow, that person
(07:54):
holds out a lot of hope. Maybe that person esteemed you,
or maybe that person paid attention to you for the
first time ever. Maybe that person makes you feel high
as a kite because you're having amazing sex, So that
feeling of being in love belongs there. Okay? Does that
(08:20):
kind of make sense to everybody that when you bond
with somebody that is going to complete you, the dopamese
shoots up, the good feelings shoot up, and you want
those feelings. However, if that match made in so called
heaven is based on only fulfilling a wound of childhood. Well,
(08:44):
good luck with that, because now you're into an unsustainable system.
So now you're building on the hope and wish and
dream that this person who probably is also coming into
the relationship with a hole in their soul and a
sense of incompletion, is bonding to you because you serve
(09:06):
a purpose. You serve a very important psychological purpose. And
let's go back to doctor John Bolby, attachment theorist, father
of attachment theory, who talks about what it takes to
form a healthy human psyche. So what are these elements
they're mirroring attunement, eye contact, skin contact, consistency, a sense
(09:34):
of connection. Okay, so when mom and baby are connected
and everything's going well, the mother is mirroring the baby,
attuning to the baby, attaching to the baby, the baby
is attaching to mother. But what if all that doesn't
go so well? So then the baby is left with
(09:58):
again I refer back to hole in the soul, and
is forever pining for that love, is pining for a
complete connection. And so as the baby develops and turns
into an adult, then that baby is craving. The intimacy
is an example craving being important enough, craving being special,
(10:24):
craving being number one, craving being lovable. And if the
love object is providing some of that or a lot
of that, well bingo. However, now we have what I
call a dependent relationship, because if you don't go into
(10:46):
a relationship somewhat whole and complete, and you know this
is a lifelong journey, it's never the case that we
don't need anybody. That's a rare person who absolutely doesn't
need anybody. But if you're going to go into this
relationship with a big hole in the soul and you're
(11:07):
hoping that your provider will fill it for you, then
in essence, you're not the cause, you're at the effect
of the relationship. Do we have any questions so far
in the chat room? Uh?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, we do. We'll go ahead and start with which
I thought was really interesting. I feel guilty because my
partner says they're still in love with me, but I
don't feel the same. Is there something wrong with me?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well, let's go to the love part. Okay, So the
in love part is juicy, it's dopamine filled. As I mentioned.
It captures those really high moments limerens, you know the
word limerens, like Wow, I'm falling in with this person.
(12:01):
So that person might feel those highs and lows, especially
if they're Okay, So here's the thing. If they're anxiously attached,
if they didn't have consistent mothering and a very healthy
attachment with their parent, mother probably more so than father
(12:24):
in most cases, or primary parent more so than secondary parent,
then you're serving that purpose. Okay. Now, if you've had
healthy attachment and you're not feeling the love, well, well
maybe you're not feeling the love because they're leaning on
(12:48):
you too hard. And perhaps you come from let's just
pretend that you come from smothering parents. So the anxious
person who is now finally getting their dopamine needs met
is sort of like high on the drug. Okay, And you,
(13:08):
on the other hand, don't want to be the drug supplier,
and so as an avoidant detacher, maybe you push back
and think, no, no, no, no, this is overwhelming, this is
a trap, this is going to smother me, this is
going to lock me in some kind of a psychological prison.
(13:30):
So you don't allow yourself to feel that because of
the dynamics between the two, or maybe it is that
you genuinely have moved into a stage of the relationship
called the loving stage, which is not as dopamine filled,
(13:51):
it's not as dramatic or traumatic. So this is a
phase of stability. It's a phase where partners decide that
they're not going to abandon each other, that they're going
to work through things. Maybe they're building a home together,
maybe they're they're having children together. So obviously, if you're
(14:16):
building a foundation, all you need is, like what doctor
Brockelman said, is to experience highs and lows and oh
my god, now I'm afraid that he or she is
going to leave me. Oh no, I'm not sure if
I'm in love. I'm not sure if the other party's
in love. And so what I'm saying is that in
(14:39):
love is usually temporary. Hopefully you still have some sparks
from the situation and we'll get into that. But the
love is the foundation. Okay, you love people. Why do
you love people? You love people because you have similar values,
(15:03):
or you want to have a good partnership, or you
want to back to building something. You want to build something.
You're in love because you're smitten. Okay, it doesn't mean
you want to build with that person. You could be
in love with somebody that's really hot and sexy and
(15:25):
a hot mess. You've heard of hot messes, right, So sorry,
I have to sneeze coming out of course, Okay, I
think it one way, kind of like love, you know,
in love, you know, it's like you have to scratch
a nitch. You gotta sneeze. But then again, it subsides
(15:49):
and hopefully mature love takes precedence in a stable relationship
because you can't be threatened with anxious attachment, or push
away because you are an avoidant detacher, or change your
(16:11):
mind because your partner has bad breath in the morning,
or change your mind back because now they got some
plastic surgery and they look great, and so your hormones
are surging. Do you see how unstable this limerence thing is,
this in love thing. It's really hard to build on it,
(16:33):
but it sure is important to get the party started.
So does that answer your question? You want to put
a comment in the chat room, or better yet, why
don't you call into the show We could talk about
your specific case.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I hope they leave a message and I hope
they call in, but I am curious that somebody that's
been married myself eight years now, I feel the love growing,
but also I don't. I do not feel that spark
that I when I first met my spouse, but I
(17:14):
couldn't imagine my life without him.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Okay, that's because you're mature.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Tony, thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
That's because you're you're to be trusted. Okay. You have
built a foundation together, and this foundation is really really
important and needs the stability. So the love is the
deepening the sparks of in love. Well, didn't you have
a little bit of that in love feeling when you
(17:46):
first met your husband? Oh?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, of course, of course.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Okay, so that's what I mean. You've got to get
the party started somehow.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Right right? If not, you probably would have never happened.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
No, I mean, like why right?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Why?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You know, like you buy something off of a shelf
and it's that shiny object. I want it, I want it.
But then when you get it, maybe you throw it
away because it's not shiny anymore, or maybe you keep
it because it just enriches your life so much that
you can't live without it.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So it's kind of like that holy shirt. You know,
that shirt you've had for fifteen years and it's holy
and you just don't want to get rid of it
because it's so comfortable.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
And yes, there's something wonderful about that. Maybe that's why
I don't like to move from this particular home that
I live in, because you know, it's so much something
that I've invested in. And these are the key ingredients.
You invest in your partner. You create with your partner,
(18:48):
You make a home with your partner, You share experiences
with your partner, feedback to your partner, whether it's it's
it's complimentary or not. Sometimes you have to tell your
partner truths that don't really feel that great. And then
(19:09):
sometimes it's just, you know, very important to know that
you have somebody that's going to be your truth teller. Right,
So in spite of the fact that you might not
want to hear certain things, you could depend on your
partner to tell you what you need to improve upon,
(19:29):
like a feedback loop. And so all of those shared
experiences create love.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, And I think I mean just
from the people that tune in, you can tell this
as a popular subject that all of us go through.
And I find this question fascinating because I mean, I'm
sure it's happened to many people. Is it possible to
fill in love with two people at once or is
(19:56):
it just a confusion or an unmet nee.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well, that's interesting. I have no real body of research
that I'm referring to, but I'll just use my instincts
on that one. I think it's possible to be in
a relationship where you love somebody and then there's a
missing piece. Remember that book called the Missing Piece Meets
(20:22):
the Big Oh so right, And so if let's say
your sexual desires are not the same, or your creative
desires are not the same, or something's not happening within
the relationship, you might want to pull an in love
partner in because you want experience that high. I was
(20:47):
listening to a psychologist online. I wish I could remember
her name and give her credit, but she was talking
about that when people cheat, they want they cheat because
they want experience is different aspects of themselves. So it's
not so much that they necessarily want to get rid
(21:08):
of their partner, but they want to feel alive. And
so sometimes being loved is of course you feel alive,
but you don't feel everybody likes to have that drug effect, right,
or a lot of people do, like, wow, I just
met somebody. If you look at somebody's face, who says,
(21:29):
oh I just met this person, Oh my god, I
think I think the person is the one much How
do you know that? You know, maybe the person is
a horrible individual, Maybe the person has no ethics or morals.
Maybe the person has completely different life views than you.
How do you know? So building upon in love to
(21:53):
me is a really really bad idea unless the foundation
is going to turn into love. And love also means acceptance,
acceptance of the person's values in matching those values. So
you don't want to fall in love with somebody that
(22:15):
eventually you're going to have to say goodbye to because
they don't match your values. So what are you going
to do? Or you can agree to disagree, or you
can have friction over it or yeah, so it's not
foundationally really good. So let's go back to that panel
three for a second and get show the image. So
(22:37):
there's you're in love. Two missing pieces find each other,
They get intertwined and for a minute, their toxic levels
go down for a minute, and then they are sparked
because when one partner starts seeing their individuality or pulls
(23:02):
back or tries to choke the other, look what happens. Okay,
so now we're in panel number four. So if it's
not foundationally built correctly, we've got chaos. Okay, So this
bond is going to bust. It's not sustainable. So the
person who has anxious attachment is going to be the
(23:25):
kling on, and then that person who has avoidant attachment
is going to push the person off of the ladder.
And now we are in chaos. So it's not going
to sustain. So now after chaos, what happens. What happens
is people get defensive. So as a result of chaos,
(23:49):
now we're on panel five, people might decide, well, you know,
I'm going to close down. I'm never going to allow
anybody in. You know, screw this love business, forget it.
I'm just gonna close down. And other people might think, well,
then instead of love, I'm just going to look for many,
(24:10):
many sparky situations and I'll just be drifting from one
relationship to the other and just spark in love, in love,
in love, in love. I'm in love with her, I'm
in love with him now I'm not. Now I am.
Now it's different. Oh now I like the pink one,
Now I like the blue one. Oh the yellow one
(24:31):
is oh wow, the yellow one's really hot. Okay. So
now we're going crazy because we're missing that dopamine. Okay.
And so we can either decide to completely shut down,
or we could decide to objectify people and just choose
(24:56):
a bunch of people who will fill our hole in
the soul, and more people and more people and more
breakups until eventually the whole system breaks down, which is
not necessarily a bad thing. I know nobody wants to
break down, but you know, sometimes that happens. The marriage
(25:19):
breaks down, the relationship breaks down, person's mental health breaks down.
So what is a breakdown from this point of view
is that you have to build it. You have to
build it sustainably. You can't just build it based on
a feeling. So now you're in the breakdown. And what's
(25:43):
breakdown an opportunity for is a breakthrough. So were there
other questions in the chat room or anybody want to
call in and dive into this in love versus love?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I know we have quite a few people that are
too tuning in, So please if don't feel embarrassed, you
can always use a different name.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, absolutely, you can go buy an alias, you can
aid your voice, whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But there's a question, and I think again all of
us have thought this. Can being in love come back
after it fades or once it's gone, it's gone for good.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
No, I think you can rekindle the sparks. Okay, So
how do you rekindle the sparks? Is that you do fun,
exciting things with each other. So what evokes these powerful emotions?
While music does what else does? Obviously having sex does,
(26:47):
making love going on some thrilling adventures. Humor. I think
humor is a really important part of it. Laughing your
ass off with your partner, that can rekindle sparks, And
so you're always going to be responsible for rekindling. You
don't want this flatliner of love either. I'm not suggesting,
(27:10):
just you know, park yourself in neutral and be stable,
and you know, because a relationship is dynamic, and so
part of I think staying in love is always being
on a journey of paradigm shifting and always growing. Because
whenever you destabilize the relationship by challenging it, the other
(27:35):
person has to somehow tabolize it and grow and reach
a higher level with you, okay, because your partners, and
if they can't do that, then they're going to drop
out of the relationship. Then it's not sustainable. So I
think that these sparks are really important. You know how
(27:58):
I love doctor Jordan Peterson talks about date night. You've
got to date each other. You have to make time
for sex. I have couples that I work with that
haven't had sex for months and even years. They just
don't want to have sex, or the spark is gone,
or I don't know what it is. They've become platonic
(28:19):
with each other, which is really painful because especially if
one wants to have an intimate relationship and the other
is just fine without it, then questions are going to arise, like, oh,
is this person having an affair? Is this person addicted
to porn? Oh? And then for those of you who
(28:39):
have core beliefs like I'm not beautiful enough or I'm
not desirable enough, it's going to spark horrible negative core beliefs.
It's gonna activate them, and so that partner is going
to be your torture chamber. So I do like the
(29:00):
idea of dating each other, date night discussions, shared experiences,
going to plays, movies, comedy stores, going on adventures together,
being out in nature, having a book perhaps that you
read together, and or ideas that you're building together in projects,
(29:22):
because I think every time you guys elevate each other,
there's a little spark. Okay, there's an added spark to it.
You can call it, like, oh my god, I just
remembered why I fell in love with this person. Wow,
this person is so creative. I just remembered I just
(29:45):
remembered their laugh. Wow. I haven't heard that laugh for
a long time. Now, I remember why I fell in
love with that person, And so there's always going to
be this memory bank of love. Oh, we have a call.
Thank you so much. Hello, thank you for calling in.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
What's up Dot?
Speaker 1 (30:07):
What's up?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Man? I, man, you saved my life back in like
twenty like sixteen seventeen. I came across the videos. Yeah, man,
I was getting into my parents real bad, and man
I watched those videos and boy, it really changed my life.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Well, I can't tell you how meaningful that is for
me to hear it, because to me, there's something better
than making a difference in somebody else's life, you know.
I mean I love Hogan'das's ice cream, which I can't
eat anymore because of my sugar levels. Will not like it,
(30:50):
but there's nothing better than making a difference to somebody's life.
Can I please ask you what was it about what
I said or what you learned that turned you around? Where?
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Like where were you?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
What did you hear from me? And what what stuck
to shift that paradigm in your mind?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
You know, at the time, I had like kind of
like ran away from my family. I mean, you know,
I was twenty fast, so I don't know how you
could call it running like that, but I wouldn't talking
to him, you know what I'm saying. So I just
got on YouTube and then you know, it'd be like
bullshit on there. But man, like I came across you know,
your stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
And I was so thank you for that. Okay, what
were you hearing?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Man?
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I just started to realize like uh like all like
basically like a pattern thing in like basically like, yeah,
you your parents treated you this way, and now you
got this like core belief about yourself and now you
(32:06):
got to shake that joint in order for you to
like even for you to even see like a different
pathway forward, you know. And at the time I was
actually married, but I was actually just repeating the pattern
and I didn't really get it. You know. Of course
that fell apart, you know, but now I see things differently.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So were you actually able to see how you ingested
your core belief from your family of origin and how
you identified with the lie which is what I call it.
It's a lie and then you identify with it and
it ruins your life. Were you able to do that?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yes? But what one thing I wasn't able to do
is I still like women. That's like my mom. I
love that. I can't I can't like you know, I
can't be like I can't. There's no way around it.
I already tried. I'm secure to myself, but so I
can handle what they're bringing, right, But at the same time, right,
(33:14):
I can't just let it go.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Well, look, if I ask you in general, and you know,
share what you're comfortable with and nobody's gonna know you
from Adam because it's an anonymous call. But what what
did your mother injure you with that you can't shake?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Like I like, Uh, it's both of my parents really,
but they never had time for me. And so now
I like girls that don't get time for me. Do
you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Oh, you know, I call you know what I call
that one? Right? No, I don't okay, I called that
the what the freud, the WTF repetitive principle. So you
are repeating what your parents did as a way to
control what they did and and try to work it through.
(34:15):
Does that make sense to you?
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay? So so look, it's really painful when your parents
don't have time for you. That's that's a hard one
to shake, isn't it. Because our parents are like our gods.
There are suppliers, so there are love supply, right, and
if they don't bring it on, then ooh we start
(34:40):
for it, We really start for it, and then we
get attracted to people who unfortunately do the same and
deprive us from the very love that we've always been
pining for. Okay, making sense to you? Right?
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Right? And then and then you do it to other
people maybe, do you? No?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
I just I just for now, I just learned, like, look,
I can't control nobody by myself, right, But at the
same time, I like what I like, so maybe somebody
would change.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Okay, So here here, here's what I'm thinking. Okay, So
right now you're doing the what the freud? You understand
that your parents were rejectors. They didn't give you the
emotional supply. So now you like women who also injure
you by not making you important. Do I read that right? Okay?
(35:43):
All right, so that's your what the freud? That's your
repetition principle, your repetition cycle cycle that you're trying to
act out. So now what I would like you to
try on for size is to re group this. Okay,
So I want you to just pull back, like pull
(36:05):
back and get out of their magnetic pull. Basically, these
women that you're trying to get attention from, because what
you're really doing is you're trying to complete the injury
(36:25):
that your parents inflicted on you through these women. You're
kind of using them to complete an old injury. But
you're selecting people who are never going to fix it
because they're just as flawed as your parents. Get it.
(36:47):
It's like, right, it's like going back to the mechanic
that broke your car in the you know, like like
they're going to break your car again because they're just
not good at it.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, okay, Okay, so we've got.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
A major step missing. I really hope I hear from you,
because I think this could be fixed, okay by me
or somebody on the team, hopefully me, that we got
to go back into really processing the anger and the
resentment and the pain that this rejection cost in you,
(37:29):
by your parents and hold them emotionally responsible, therapeutically emotionally responsible,
because if they're dead, you can't hold them responsible. If
they're too old to understand this. It's not like you're
going to call your mom and dad and say, oh,
you know, I talked to doctor Judy and she said,
to hold you this. I'm suing you for this. You know,
(37:53):
maybe you should. Huh. It doesn't work that way. But somehow,
whenever we hold it in us and we get to
feel like we're at the effect of the injury of
our parents, we try to phish ourselves out of the
situation by bringing on the same energy, the same dynamics
(38:14):
from somebody else, and then we let them break us
over and over and over. And that's the what the freud.
Okay makes sense to you now, So you're just caught
in a net is what's happening. You're caught in this net,
and somebody's got to like untangle you from the mess.
(38:35):
Maybe it'll be me, okay, but I think that if
we do a little work around this, then you're gonna
get unentangled from it, and you're no longer you're going
to feel more whole and complete within yourself, and you're
no longer going to be picking people who reinjure you
(38:56):
the same way as your parents injured you. So now
the prize is not going to be rejection and the
desire to fix the rejection through a rejector. You get
what I'm getting at. You're trying to fix rejection through rejector.
Never gonna work. Never, Okay. So now we got to
(39:19):
go back in there and make sure you don't reject
yourself because if you don't reject yourself, you're not gonna pick.
You're not going to put yourself in a in a
shark tank where other people are rejecting you. You have
no desire to do that. You're just gonna say, nah, no, thanks,
this isn't this isn't loving, naw, this isn't fun that
(39:47):
you know, I'd love to get you into that into
that place, and I think I can, so you know,
do reach out to me. We'll see what we could
do about this. Okay, And yes, now you learned what
you learned from me, But now we got to go
back to the hole in the soul and fix it
so that you're not picking people to quote fix it
(40:11):
for you when they're actually just reinjuring you the same
way that your mother and father did. Get it. Yeah, okay,
but now I'm going to bring back my topic point,
which is love versus in love. You fall in love
with the people who inflict the injury and hope and
(40:34):
wish and pray that they can fix your injury by
loving you back and completing the cycle of abandonment. Emotionally,
you're praying for that, but they don't know what the
hell they're doing. They're like the bad mechanic.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, I know what to say.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Just take it in, you know, think about what I'm saying.
You've obviously been listening to me for a long time,
and you called in because you were hoping to get
something more, you know, some insight more than what you
already got. So this is what I'm giving you, is
that that hole in the soul in you is repeating
the cycle with the hopes that that person is going
(41:28):
to fix the damage that your parents inflicted on you.
But you pick people who are going to be equally
damaging as your parents, and the job never gets done.
So it's an inside job, get.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
It, Yeah, I really do.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Okay, I'm glad. I'm a glout to know that. Okay,
So you're seeking that in love feeling because the in
love feeling is really a feeling of being deprived. Oh
I'm in love, and then the minute they read app
their arms around me and tell me how important and
special and worthy I am. Well, then I'll feel whole
and complete. Wow, that's giving that person a lot of power,
(42:10):
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
And what if they don't, then you're screwed. Then you're right.
Then you're re injured, just the way your mother and
father did. And then you go to another rejector and say, hey, now, rejector,
can you please accept me so I'll be cured? Right right? Okay.
(42:39):
So that's how this in love stuff starts with that
hole in the soul, and you want to reak. You
want to mend the injury so that that in love
spark that was missing from the original mother infant or
father infant bond will finally calm down and make you whole.
(43:10):
So those.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Right, because I never feel like you never what never
liked the help whole because never nobody ever really was
there like that?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
All right? So now through therapy you have to recognize
that in order for us to be whole, we've got
to be mirrored and attuned to by our parents. But
your parents missed the mark. They missed it. So now
you're left with the whole, but you're filling it with
(43:43):
the wrong people that, on top of the whole, are
injuring you even more, making it worse. And that's the
drug quality of the in love is like you're looking
for it. You're looking for it, You're looking for it.
Oh you know, now they injured me, they left me,
(44:04):
they abandoned me. Own. No, now I'm worse off than now.
I'm in drug withdrawal, love drug withdrawal. You ever hear
the term love addict? Right, So then you go to
the next person. The next person you go to is
just equally as bad. They're rejectors too, because you think
that once the rejector accepts you, you will be whole
(44:28):
and complete. And that's the why of why you do that,
that's the what, the freud, why you want the injury
to fix you. So we just got to work through
this thing. Yeah, okay, and then what you will notice
(44:54):
is that you will stop the madness and you will
you will want to be with somebody that offers you
love and mirroring and atchievement and safety and stability and
somebody that you can build with. But right now you're
(45:14):
not going to be attracted to that person. You see,
somebody comes around and says, hey, you know what I'm
going to offer you stability. I want to be with you.
Don't worry about it. I'm not leaving you. We're good partners.
We fit together. You'll say, well, where's the challenge? You
(45:35):
know this take me to the curb, and now I
feel I'll fall in love with you right right?
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Okay, So I hope I what's that you? Oh, you're
very welcome. So I hope I hear from you. Will
work this through, and then you're beast and women will
change once you fix that inside hole of rejection from
(46:07):
you that your parents left you with, which is no
fault of yours. Okay, and I have a show that
you should listen to called The Herder. Can't be the
Healer because what you're doing is you're going after the
herder to heal that rejection part. And it's never going
(46:27):
to work. To try it a thousand times and come
back to me and say you were right, it didn't work. Okay,
I just want to I want to prevent the thousands,
the thousand more times that you're going to do this.
All right, all right, I really appreciate you pulling in
(46:50):
and your kind words, and yeah, I'm here for you. Okay, okay,
all right, all right, you take care. Okay, So everybody listening,
do you hear that what the freud thing that we
pined for? You know, especially if we've been rejected in love,
(47:10):
then we want to fall in love. We want to
repair that hole in the sole injury of abandonment, which
is one of the biggest injuries. You know. It's just
so painful when your own parents don't give you the
mirroring and the attunement and the love and the attention.
You know, these are things that we ideally, not ideally,
(47:34):
we need that for our mental health. And if we
don't get that, then then they're sort of like grooming
us for picking rejectors. Okay, so thank you. This was
a prime example of the calling for falling in love
and falling in love for all the wrong reasons to
repair something that was injured at the causal level, and
(47:59):
we'll never be repaired by another rejector, which the person
will continue to do. What the Freud loop on? So,
any other questions in the chat room, any other comments?
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Actually, the one just popped in. What if you are
rejecting yourself? Many people do that?
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Well, that that that, in a way is something that
we could really work with because if you're if it's
between you and you, then I want to know. I
want to know your blueprint, and I want to know
those nasty core beliefs that you have. Maybe you're not
even good enough for yourself, and we need to see that.
The trick is we've got to identify the lie in
(48:46):
order to dismantle the lie. Okay, So if you bought
into a lie that you're not lovable enough, not important enough,
that we've got to go back in there and undo
the lie. Because the good news is lies do not sustain.
They're not sustainable. If I tell you a lie, like,
(49:09):
let's see, if you throw banana up in the air,
then it's going to float up. Okay, Well you know
it's not right. So I could lie about it, but
then you're going to test it and you're gonna say no,
it's not okay. So we've got to bust the lies
and you have to see what you bought into. So
(49:30):
one of the things I say in my book, and
I really want everybody to at least have the PDF
copy of it and also the video Healing from Narcissistic Abuse.
You've got to get that video. I put so much
time and energy into busting the narcissistic system. So you know,
call the clinic about it and we'll make sure that
(49:53):
you have that. If you're not going to go through therapy,
at least let me video you through healing from narcissistic abuse.
So what were we saying? What was the question? Oh like,
if you're disconnected from yourself, even yes, we want to
see what you bought into, you know, kind of like
(50:16):
better to reject myself than be rejected. So yeah, maybe,
but where's that getting you? Okay? So do you see this?
This mind map system is a way to identify a
system gone wrong. It's encode, decode, recode what the freud
(50:39):
you encoded so that we could take the garbage out
and decode it and then recode you into help. That's
the point. Okay, any other quick questions and then we'll
end the show.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Oh let's see. Well they said, God bless you, you
saved my life four years ago.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
That's so sweet. Thank you very very much. I really
appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
So it seems it sometimes. I know, as a podcast toast,
you don't realize the impact that you can make just
through your voice. And doctor Judy has always been here
for many years doing this, and and because she cares
(51:26):
about her audience, so you.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Know, I really really do appreciate hearing that. And oh, yeah,
you're right. Sometimes I forget or I don't. I don't know,
I don't know. I just sit here and talk. I
like to talk. I like to I like to talk
about the mind map and healing human disconnect. And I
believe in this system that I created because I've seen
(51:51):
it generate. So I just figure if I keep talking
and sharing this with people, then some people will actually
take it in and be affected by it in a
good way. And now, don't forget I've got the book,
I've got videos, I've got YouTube. So just keep learning,
(52:13):
keep growing, and don't let anybody put you at the
effect of another person, because ultimately we have to be
the cause of better outcomes for our lives because nobody's
going to do it for us.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Okay, Amen on that and I will see you next time.
(53:00):
Its medal YouTube. It is
Hello, Hello, everyone, and thank you so much for tuning in.
Dr Judy here, Doctor Judy W t F. Tonight's topic
is love versus in love, and I want to hear
from you. It's so much more interesting to have live
discussion rather than monologue. So I invite you to call in.
(01:08):
This is a call and show everybody. Three two three
five two four two five nine nine three two three
five two four two five nine nine. So we're going
to talk about the difference between in love and love.
So one is very dopamine filled. So which one do
(01:29):
you think that is? The love or the in love,
the stable love or the unstable in love? Because as
we have all experienced, or most of us humans have,
we have all been in love only to find that
there is no love behind it, there is no safety
(01:52):
behind it, there's no commitment behind it, and it is
a temporary feeling fades out in a short while. Maybe
if you're lucky, won two years, and then then we
hit a bottom of well what are we going to do?
The butterflies are gone? So now what? So I want
(02:14):
to bring up a professor that I had as a
supervisor many years ago. His name was doctor Walter Brockleman's.
He was a psychiatrist and he worked at UCLA and
he had an intensive couple's program and he would therapies
literally tens of thousands of couples, and he would tape
(02:37):
the sessions and delve deep into their psyche and see
what the problem was. And you know, I do the
same thing, although I have a different method, as some
of you know, I have my mind map method. But
I used to tease him. I used to say to him, Hey, Walt,
are you in love with your wife yet? And he goes,
(02:58):
are you kidding me? In love with my wife? Are
you serious? Do you think I want the ups and
downs of those emotions? Do you think I want to
be in a roller coaster situation? Do you want my
life to be just a series of highs and lows
and devons stations and dopamine? And I thought about that,
(03:22):
and I thought, that's an interesting answer to my question.
He said, but look, I love my wife. I love
my wife. She is an amazing person, where amazing partners,
and we have a great family and we have a
lot of stability. And that stuck with me for a
(03:45):
very long time, obviously till today, because I'm bringing it up,
So what is this difference? Have you ever experienced being
in love only to find out that pretty soon you
or your partner out of love? So what's this business
of falling in and falling out? Doesn't that tell you
(04:07):
something about the stability of being the instability of being
in love? So other people might say, but hey, isn't
it necessary for that spark to happen? Don't you have
to have a connection, and a romantic one at that,
(04:27):
and have that splurge of dopamine or whatever the drug
is that that fills your body and makes the sparks happen.
Isn't that necessary? And I would say, yeah, that's pretty
nice when that happens, and that is a prerequisite for
motivating somebody to go deeper. However, before you build a
(04:53):
life in love, you have to see if there is
going to be a foundation for love. So what is
the difference. Let's let's talk about it from a mind
map perspective, and let's talk about it from attachment theory.
So let's bring up panel number one, wounds of childhood. So,
(05:17):
as you've often heard me speak about this, wounds of
childhood are all the things that injure us verbal abuse,
physical abuse, sexual abuse, smothering, narcissistic parents, controlling parents. Okay,
so these are all the aspects of our injuries. So
(05:39):
when we are injured, we develop what I refer to
as a hole in the soul. And if you guys
want to read more about this, then I give away
my pdf book be The Cost Healing Human disconnector where
you could buy it online at Amazon and have the
actual copy of the book. But I do encourage you
(06:01):
to read it, especially if you're trying to understand my
mind map, because all of the dots, as you can
see from the DNA strand do connect, and I do
show you a system system gone wrong to a system
gone right. So okay, so we're injured. Yeah, everybody's injured
on one level or another, some deeper than others. But
(06:23):
this hole in the soul, this deficit, lingers on and
creates reactions. And these reactions might entail pain. Either we
bleed out, we shut down. If we're bleeding too much,
we might flee, fight, freeze, fall. These are reactions to
(06:47):
the wound. The animal is wounded, he will or she
will fight, flight, flee, freeze, or fawn. And we do
the same thing and I'm talking about not only physically
but emotionally. So now we need a partner. So let's
look at panel number three and look at that DNA
(07:09):
strand and take a look at what's going on there.
So now we are partnered up. And so what is
that What is that DNA strand that's doing a dance? Well,
what are we doing glue together in the first place? Well,
it could come from the idea that we are not
(07:32):
whole and complete, and now we need somebody to complete us. Okay,
So let's say that you're the blue strand and along
comes your pink strand and then you feel the sparks.
Why do you feel the sparks? Well, wow, that person
(07:54):
holds out a lot of hope. Maybe that person esteemed you,
or maybe that person paid attention to you for the
first time ever. Maybe that person makes you feel high
as a kite because you're having amazing sex, So that
feeling of being in love belongs there. Okay? Does that
(08:20):
kind of make sense to everybody that when you bond
with somebody that is going to complete you, the dopamese
shoots up, the good feelings shoot up, and you want
those feelings. However, if that match made in so called
heaven is based on only fulfilling a wound of childhood. Well,
(08:44):
good luck with that, because now you're into an unsustainable system.
So now you're building on the hope and wish and
dream that this person who probably is also coming into
the relationship with a hole in their soul and a
sense of incompletion, is bonding to you because you serve
(09:06):
a purpose. You serve a very important psychological purpose. And
let's go back to doctor John Bolby, attachment theorist, father
of attachment theory, who talks about what it takes to
form a healthy human psyche. So what are these elements
they're mirroring attunement, eye contact, skin contact, consistency, a sense
(09:34):
of connection. Okay, so when mom and baby are connected
and everything's going well, the mother is mirroring the baby,
attuning to the baby, attaching to the baby, the baby
is attaching to mother. But what if all that doesn't
go so well? So then the baby is left with
(09:58):
again I refer back to hole in the soul, and
is forever pining for that love, is pining for a
complete connection. And so as the baby develops and turns
into an adult, then that baby is craving. The intimacy
is an example craving being important enough, craving being special,
(10:24):
craving being number one, craving being lovable. And if the
love object is providing some of that or a lot
of that, well bingo. However, now we have what I
call a dependent relationship, because if you don't go into
(10:46):
a relationship somewhat whole and complete, and you know this
is a lifelong journey, it's never the case that we
don't need anybody. That's a rare person who absolutely doesn't
need anybody. But if you're going to go into this
relationship with a big hole in the soul and you're
(11:07):
hoping that your provider will fill it for you, then
in essence, you're not the cause, you're at the effect
of the relationship. Do we have any questions so far
in the chat room? Uh?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, we do. We'll go ahead and start with which
I thought was really interesting. I feel guilty because my
partner says they're still in love with me, but I
don't feel the same. Is there something wrong with me?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well, let's go to the love part. Okay, So the
in love part is juicy, it's dopamine filled. As I mentioned.
It captures those really high moments limerens, you know the
word limerens, like Wow, I'm falling in with this person.
(12:01):
So that person might feel those highs and lows, especially
if they're Okay, So here's the thing. If they're anxiously attached,
if they didn't have consistent mothering and a very healthy
attachment with their parent, mother probably more so than father
(12:24):
in most cases, or primary parent more so than secondary parent,
then you're serving that purpose. Okay. Now, if you've had
healthy attachment and you're not feeling the love, well, well
maybe you're not feeling the love because they're leaning on
(12:48):
you too hard. And perhaps you come from let's just
pretend that you come from smothering parents. So the anxious
person who is now finally getting their dopamine needs met
is sort of like high on the drug. Okay, And you,
(13:08):
on the other hand, don't want to be the drug supplier,
and so as an avoidant detacher, maybe you push back
and think, no, no, no, no, this is overwhelming, this is
a trap, this is going to smother me, this is
going to lock me in some kind of a psychological prison.
(13:30):
So you don't allow yourself to feel that because of
the dynamics between the two, or maybe it is that
you genuinely have moved into a stage of the relationship
called the loving stage, which is not as dopamine filled,
(13:51):
it's not as dramatic or traumatic. So this is a
phase of stability. It's a phase where partners decide that
they're not going to abandon each other, that they're going
to work through things. Maybe they're building a home together,
maybe they're they're having children together. So obviously, if you're
(14:16):
building a foundation, all you need is, like what doctor
Brockelman said, is to experience highs and lows and oh
my god, now I'm afraid that he or she is
going to leave me. Oh no, I'm not sure if
I'm in love. I'm not sure if the other party's
in love. And so what I'm saying is that in
(14:39):
love is usually temporary. Hopefully you still have some sparks
from the situation and we'll get into that. But the
love is the foundation. Okay, you love people. Why do
you love people? You love people because you have similar values,
(15:03):
or you want to have a good partnership, or you
want to back to building something. You want to build something.
You're in love because you're smitten. Okay, it doesn't mean
you want to build with that person. You could be
in love with somebody that's really hot and sexy and
(15:25):
a hot mess. You've heard of hot messes, right, So sorry,
I have to sneeze coming out of course, Okay, I
think it one way, kind of like love, you know,
in love, you know, it's like you have to scratch
a nitch. You gotta sneeze. But then again, it subsides
(15:49):
and hopefully mature love takes precedence in a stable relationship
because you can't be threatened with anxious attachment, or push
away because you are an avoidant detacher, or change your
(16:11):
mind because your partner has bad breath in the morning,
or change your mind back because now they got some
plastic surgery and they look great, and so your hormones
are surging. Do you see how unstable this limerence thing is,
this in love thing. It's really hard to build on it,
(16:33):
but it sure is important to get the party started.
So does that answer your question? You want to put
a comment in the chat room, or better yet, why
don't you call into the show We could talk about
your specific case.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I hope they leave a message and I hope
they call in, but I am curious that somebody that's
been married myself eight years now, I feel the love growing,
but also I don't. I do not feel that spark
that I when I first met my spouse, but I
(17:14):
couldn't imagine my life without him.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Okay, that's because you're mature.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Tony, thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
That's because you're you're to be trusted. Okay. You have
built a foundation together, and this foundation is really really
important and needs the stability. So the love is the
deepening the sparks of in love. Well, didn't you have
a little bit of that in love feeling when you
(17:46):
first met your husband? Oh?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, of course, of course.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Okay, so that's what I mean. You've got to get
the party started somehow.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Right right? If not, you probably would have never happened.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
No, I mean, like why right?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Why?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You know, like you buy something off of a shelf
and it's that shiny object. I want it, I want it.
But then when you get it, maybe you throw it
away because it's not shiny anymore, or maybe you keep
it because it just enriches your life so much that
you can't live without it.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So it's kind of like that holy shirt. You know,
that shirt you've had for fifteen years and it's holy
and you just don't want to get rid of it
because it's so comfortable.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
And yes, there's something wonderful about that. Maybe that's why
I don't like to move from this particular home that
I live in, because you know, it's so much something
that I've invested in. And these are the key ingredients.
You invest in your partner. You create with your partner,
(18:48):
You make a home with your partner, You share experiences
with your partner, feedback to your partner, whether it's it's
it's complimentary or not. Sometimes you have to tell your
partner truths that don't really feel that great. And then
(19:09):
sometimes it's just, you know, very important to know that
you have somebody that's going to be your truth teller. Right,
So in spite of the fact that you might not
want to hear certain things, you could depend on your
partner to tell you what you need to improve upon,
(19:29):
like a feedback loop. And so all of those shared
experiences create love.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, And I think I mean just
from the people that tune in, you can tell this
as a popular subject that all of us go through.
And I find this question fascinating because I mean, I'm
sure it's happened to many people. Is it possible to
fill in love with two people at once or is
(19:56):
it just a confusion or an unmet nee.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well, that's interesting. I have no real body of research
that I'm referring to, but I'll just use my instincts
on that one. I think it's possible to be in
a relationship where you love somebody and then there's a
missing piece. Remember that book called the Missing Piece Meets
(20:22):
the Big Oh so right, And so if let's say
your sexual desires are not the same, or your creative
desires are not the same, or something's not happening within
the relationship, you might want to pull an in love
partner in because you want experience that high. I was
(20:47):
listening to a psychologist online. I wish I could remember
her name and give her credit, but she was talking
about that when people cheat, they want they cheat because
they want experience is different aspects of themselves. So it's
not so much that they necessarily want to get rid
(21:08):
of their partner, but they want to feel alive. And
so sometimes being loved is of course you feel alive,
but you don't feel everybody likes to have that drug effect, right,
or a lot of people do, like, wow, I just
met somebody. If you look at somebody's face, who says,
(21:29):
oh I just met this person, Oh my god, I
think I think the person is the one much How
do you know that? You know, maybe the person is
a horrible individual, Maybe the person has no ethics or morals.
Maybe the person has completely different life views than you.
How do you know? So building upon in love to
(21:53):
me is a really really bad idea unless the foundation
is going to turn into love. And love also means acceptance,
acceptance of the person's values in matching those values. So
you don't want to fall in love with somebody that
(22:15):
eventually you're going to have to say goodbye to because
they don't match your values. So what are you going
to do? Or you can agree to disagree, or you
can have friction over it or yeah, so it's not
foundationally really good. So let's go back to that panel
three for a second and get show the image. So
(22:37):
there's you're in love. Two missing pieces find each other,
They get intertwined and for a minute, their toxic levels
go down for a minute, and then they are sparked
because when one partner starts seeing their individuality or pulls
(23:02):
back or tries to choke the other, look what happens. Okay,
so now we're in panel number four. So if it's
not foundationally built correctly, we've got chaos. Okay, So this
bond is going to bust. It's not sustainable. So the
person who has anxious attachment is going to be the
(23:25):
kling on, and then that person who has avoidant attachment
is going to push the person off of the ladder.
And now we are in chaos. So it's not going
to sustain. So now after chaos, what happens. What happens
is people get defensive. So as a result of chaos,
(23:49):
now we're on panel five, people might decide, well, you know,
I'm going to close down. I'm never going to allow
anybody in. You know, screw this love business, forget it.
I'm just gonna close down. And other people might think, well,
then instead of love, I'm just going to look for many,
(24:10):
many sparky situations and I'll just be drifting from one
relationship to the other and just spark in love, in love,
in love, in love. I'm in love with her, I'm
in love with him now I'm not. Now I am.
Now it's different. Oh now I like the pink one,
Now I like the blue one. Oh the yellow one
(24:31):
is oh wow, the yellow one's really hot. Okay. So
now we're going crazy because we're missing that dopamine. Okay.
And so we can either decide to completely shut down,
or we could decide to objectify people and just choose
(24:56):
a bunch of people who will fill our hole in
the soul, and more people and more people and more
breakups until eventually the whole system breaks down, which is
not necessarily a bad thing. I know nobody wants to
break down, but you know, sometimes that happens. The marriage
(25:19):
breaks down, the relationship breaks down, person's mental health breaks down.
So what is a breakdown from this point of view
is that you have to build it. You have to
build it sustainably. You can't just build it based on
a feeling. So now you're in the breakdown. And what's
(25:43):
breakdown an opportunity for is a breakthrough. So were there
other questions in the chat room or anybody want to
call in and dive into this in love versus love?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I know we have quite a few people that are
too tuning in, So please if don't feel embarrassed, you
can always use a different name.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, absolutely, you can go buy an alias, you can
aid your voice, whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But there's a question, and I think again all of
us have thought this. Can being in love come back
after it fades or once it's gone, it's gone for good.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
No, I think you can rekindle the sparks. Okay, So
how do you rekindle the sparks? Is that you do fun,
exciting things with each other. So what evokes these powerful emotions?
While music does what else does? Obviously having sex does,
(26:47):
making love going on some thrilling adventures. Humor. I think
humor is a really important part of it. Laughing your
ass off with your partner, that can rekindle sparks, And
so you're always going to be responsible for rekindling. You
don't want this flatliner of love either. I'm not suggesting,
(27:10):
just you know, park yourself in neutral and be stable,
and you know, because a relationship is dynamic, and so
part of I think staying in love is always being
on a journey of paradigm shifting and always growing. Because
whenever you destabilize the relationship by challenging it, the other
(27:35):
person has to somehow tabolize it and grow and reach
a higher level with you, okay, because your partners, and
if they can't do that, then they're going to drop
out of the relationship. Then it's not sustainable. So I
think that these sparks are really important. You know how
(27:58):
I love doctor Jordan Peterson talks about date night. You've
got to date each other. You have to make time
for sex. I have couples that I work with that
haven't had sex for months and even years. They just
don't want to have sex, or the spark is gone,
or I don't know what it is. They've become platonic
(28:19):
with each other, which is really painful because especially if
one wants to have an intimate relationship and the other
is just fine without it, then questions are going to arise, like, oh,
is this person having an affair? Is this person addicted
to porn? Oh? And then for those of you who
(28:39):
have core beliefs like I'm not beautiful enough or I'm
not desirable enough, it's going to spark horrible negative core beliefs.
It's gonna activate them, and so that partner is going
to be your torture chamber. So I do like the
(29:00):
idea of dating each other, date night discussions, shared experiences,
going to plays, movies, comedy stores, going on adventures together,
being out in nature, having a book perhaps that you
read together, and or ideas that you're building together in projects,
(29:22):
because I think every time you guys elevate each other,
there's a little spark. Okay, there's an added spark to it.
You can call it, like, oh my god, I just
remembered why I fell in love with this person. Wow,
this person is so creative. I just remembered I just
(29:45):
remembered their laugh. Wow. I haven't heard that laugh for
a long time. Now, I remember why I fell in
love with that person, And so there's always going to
be this memory bank of love. Oh, we have a call.
Thank you so much. Hello, thank you for calling in.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
What's up Dot?
Speaker 1 (30:07):
What's up?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Man? I, man, you saved my life back in like
twenty like sixteen seventeen. I came across the videos. Yeah, man,
I was getting into my parents real bad, and man
I watched those videos and boy, it really changed my life.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Well, I can't tell you how meaningful that is for
me to hear it, because to me, there's something better
than making a difference in somebody else's life, you know.
I mean I love Hogan'das's ice cream, which I can't
eat anymore because of my sugar levels. Will not like it,
(30:50):
but there's nothing better than making a difference to somebody's life.
Can I please ask you what was it about what
I said or what you learned that turned you around? Where?
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Like where were you?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
What did you hear from me? And what what stuck
to shift that paradigm in your mind?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
You know, at the time, I had like kind of
like ran away from my family. I mean, you know,
I was twenty fast, so I don't know how you
could call it running like that, but I wouldn't talking
to him, you know what I'm saying. So I just
got on YouTube and then you know, it'd be like
bullshit on there. But man, like I came across you know,
your stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
And I was so thank you for that. Okay, what
were you hearing?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Man?
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I just started to realize like uh like all like
basically like a pattern thing in like basically like, yeah,
you your parents treated you this way, and now you
got this like core belief about yourself and now you
(32:06):
got to shake that joint in order for you to
like even for you to even see like a different
pathway forward, you know. And at the time I was
actually married, but I was actually just repeating the pattern
and I didn't really get it. You know. Of course
that fell apart, you know, but now I see things differently.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So were you actually able to see how you ingested
your core belief from your family of origin and how
you identified with the lie which is what I call it.
It's a lie and then you identify with it and
it ruins your life. Were you able to do that?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yes? But what one thing I wasn't able to do
is I still like women. That's like my mom. I
love that. I can't I can't like you know, I
can't be like I can't. There's no way around it.
I already tried. I'm secure to myself, but so I
can handle what they're bringing, right, But at the same time, right,
(33:14):
I can't just let it go.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Well, look, if I ask you in general, and you know,
share what you're comfortable with and nobody's gonna know you
from Adam because it's an anonymous call. But what what
did your mother injure you with that you can't shake?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Like I like, Uh, it's both of my parents really,
but they never had time for me. And so now
I like girls that don't get time for me. Do
you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Oh, you know, I call you know what I call
that one? Right? No, I don't okay, I called that
the what the freud, the WTF repetitive principle. So you
are repeating what your parents did as a way to
control what they did and and try to work it through.
(34:15):
Does that make sense to you?
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay? So so look, it's really painful when your parents
don't have time for you. That's that's a hard one
to shake, isn't it. Because our parents are like our gods.
There are suppliers, so there are love supply, right, and
if they don't bring it on, then ooh we start
(34:40):
for it, We really start for it, and then we
get attracted to people who unfortunately do the same and
deprive us from the very love that we've always been
pining for. Okay, making sense to you? Right?
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Right? And then and then you do it to other
people maybe, do you? No?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
I just I just for now, I just learned, like, look,
I can't control nobody by myself, right, But at the
same time, I like what I like, so maybe somebody
would change.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Okay, So here here, here's what I'm thinking. Okay, So
right now you're doing the what the freud? You understand
that your parents were rejectors. They didn't give you the
emotional supply. So now you like women who also injure
you by not making you important. Do I read that right? Okay?
(35:43):
All right, so that's your what the freud? That's your
repetition principle, your repetition cycle cycle that you're trying to
act out. So now what I would like you to
try on for size is to re group this. Okay,
So I want you to just pull back, like pull
(36:05):
back and get out of their magnetic pull. Basically, these
women that you're trying to get attention from, because what
you're really doing is you're trying to complete the injury
(36:25):
that your parents inflicted on you through these women. You're
kind of using them to complete an old injury. But
you're selecting people who are never going to fix it
because they're just as flawed as your parents. Get it.
(36:47):
It's like, right, it's like going back to the mechanic
that broke your car in the you know, like like
they're going to break your car again because they're just
not good at it.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, okay, Okay, so we've got.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
A major step missing. I really hope I hear from you,
because I think this could be fixed, okay by me
or somebody on the team, hopefully me, that we got
to go back into really processing the anger and the
resentment and the pain that this rejection cost in you,
(37:29):
by your parents and hold them emotionally responsible, therapeutically emotionally responsible,
because if they're dead, you can't hold them responsible. If
they're too old to understand this. It's not like you're
going to call your mom and dad and say, oh,
you know, I talked to doctor Judy and she said,
to hold you this. I'm suing you for this. You know,
(37:53):
maybe you should. Huh. It doesn't work that way. But somehow,
whenever we hold it in us and we get to
feel like we're at the effect of the injury of
our parents, we try to phish ourselves out of the
situation by bringing on the same energy, the same dynamics
(38:14):
from somebody else, and then we let them break us
over and over and over. And that's the what the freud.
Okay makes sense to you now, So you're just caught
in a net is what's happening. You're caught in this net,
and somebody's got to like untangle you from the mess.
(38:35):
Maybe it'll be me, okay, but I think that if
we do a little work around this, then you're gonna
get unentangled from it, and you're no longer you're going
to feel more whole and complete within yourself, and you're
no longer going to be picking people who reinjure you
(38:56):
the same way as your parents injured you. So now
the prize is not going to be rejection and the
desire to fix the rejection through a rejector. You get
what I'm getting at. You're trying to fix rejection through rejector.
Never gonna work. Never, Okay. So now we got to
(39:19):
go back in there and make sure you don't reject
yourself because if you don't reject yourself, you're not gonna pick.
You're not going to put yourself in a in a
shark tank where other people are rejecting you. You have
no desire to do that. You're just gonna say, nah, no, thanks,
this isn't this isn't loving, naw, this isn't fun that
(39:47):
you know, I'd love to get you into that into
that place, and I think I can, so you know,
do reach out to me. We'll see what we could
do about this. Okay, And yes, now you learned what
you learned from me, But now we got to go
back to the hole in the soul and fix it
so that you're not picking people to quote fix it
(40:11):
for you when they're actually just reinjuring you the same
way that your mother and father did. Get it. Yeah, okay,
but now I'm going to bring back my topic point,
which is love versus in love. You fall in love
with the people who inflict the injury and hope and
(40:34):
wish and pray that they can fix your injury by
loving you back and completing the cycle of abandonment. Emotionally,
you're praying for that, but they don't know what the
hell they're doing. They're like the bad mechanic.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, I know what to say.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Just take it in, you know, think about what I'm saying.
You've obviously been listening to me for a long time,
and you called in because you were hoping to get
something more, you know, some insight more than what you
already got. So this is what I'm giving you, is
that that hole in the soul in you is repeating
the cycle with the hopes that that person is going
(41:28):
to fix the damage that your parents inflicted on you.
But you pick people who are going to be equally
damaging as your parents, and the job never gets done.
So it's an inside job, get.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
It, Yeah, I really do.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Okay, I'm glad. I'm a glout to know that. Okay,
So you're seeking that in love feeling because the in
love feeling is really a feeling of being deprived. Oh
I'm in love, and then the minute they read app
their arms around me and tell me how important and
special and worthy I am. Well, then I'll feel whole
and complete. Wow, that's giving that person a lot of power,
(42:10):
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
And what if they don't, then you're screwed. Then you're right.
Then you're re injured, just the way your mother and
father did. And then you go to another rejector and say, hey, now, rejector,
can you please accept me so I'll be cured? Right right? Okay.
(42:39):
So that's how this in love stuff starts with that
hole in the soul, and you want to reak. You
want to mend the injury so that that in love
spark that was missing from the original mother infant or
father infant bond will finally calm down and make you whole.
(43:10):
So those.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Right, because I never feel like you never what never
liked the help whole because never nobody ever really was
there like that?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
All right? So now through therapy you have to recognize
that in order for us to be whole, we've got
to be mirrored and attuned to by our parents. But
your parents missed the mark. They missed it. So now
you're left with the whole, but you're filling it with
(43:43):
the wrong people that, on top of the whole, are
injuring you even more, making it worse. And that's the
drug quality of the in love is like you're looking
for it. You're looking for it, You're looking for it.
Oh you know, now they injured me, they left me,
(44:04):
they abandoned me. Own. No, now I'm worse off than now.
I'm in drug withdrawal, love drug withdrawal. You ever hear
the term love addict? Right, So then you go to
the next person. The next person you go to is
just equally as bad. They're rejectors too, because you think
that once the rejector accepts you, you will be whole
(44:28):
and complete. And that's the why of why you do that,
that's the what, the freud, why you want the injury
to fix you. So we just got to work through
this thing. Yeah, okay, and then what you will notice
(44:54):
is that you will stop the madness and you will
you will want to be with somebody that offers you
love and mirroring and atchievement and safety and stability and
somebody that you can build with. But right now you're
(45:14):
not going to be attracted to that person. You see,
somebody comes around and says, hey, you know what I'm
going to offer you stability. I want to be with you.
Don't worry about it. I'm not leaving you. We're good partners.
We fit together. You'll say, well, where's the challenge? You
(45:35):
know this take me to the curb, and now I
feel I'll fall in love with you right right?
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Okay, So I hope I what's that you? Oh, you're
very welcome. So I hope I hear from you. Will
work this through, and then you're beast and women will
change once you fix that inside hole of rejection from
(46:07):
you that your parents left you with, which is no
fault of yours. Okay, and I have a show that
you should listen to called The Herder. Can't be the
Healer because what you're doing is you're going after the
herder to heal that rejection part. And it's never going
(46:27):
to work. To try it a thousand times and come
back to me and say you were right, it didn't work. Okay,
I just want to I want to prevent the thousands,
the thousand more times that you're going to do this.
All right, all right, I really appreciate you pulling in
(46:50):
and your kind words, and yeah, I'm here for you. Okay, okay,
all right, all right, you take care. Okay, So everybody listening,
do you hear that what the freud thing that we
pined for? You know, especially if we've been rejected in love,
(47:10):
then we want to fall in love. We want to
repair that hole in the sole injury of abandonment, which
is one of the biggest injuries. You know. It's just
so painful when your own parents don't give you the
mirroring and the attunement and the love and the attention.
You know, these are things that we ideally, not ideally,
(47:34):
we need that for our mental health. And if we
don't get that, then then they're sort of like grooming
us for picking rejectors. Okay, so thank you. This was
a prime example of the calling for falling in love
and falling in love for all the wrong reasons to
repair something that was injured at the causal level, and
(47:59):
we'll never be repaired by another rejector, which the person
will continue to do. What the Freud loop on? So,
any other questions in the chat room, any other comments?
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Actually, the one just popped in. What if you are
rejecting yourself? Many people do that?
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Well, that that that, in a way is something that
we could really work with because if you're if it's
between you and you, then I want to know. I
want to know your blueprint, and I want to know
those nasty core beliefs that you have. Maybe you're not
even good enough for yourself, and we need to see that.
The trick is we've got to identify the lie in
(48:46):
order to dismantle the lie. Okay, So if you bought
into a lie that you're not lovable enough, not important enough,
that we've got to go back in there and undo
the lie. Because the good news is lies do not sustain.
They're not sustainable. If I tell you a lie, like,
(49:09):
let's see, if you throw banana up in the air,
then it's going to float up. Okay, Well you know
it's not right. So I could lie about it, but
then you're going to test it and you're gonna say no,
it's not okay. So we've got to bust the lies
and you have to see what you bought into. So
(49:30):
one of the things I say in my book, and
I really want everybody to at least have the PDF
copy of it and also the video Healing from Narcissistic Abuse.
You've got to get that video. I put so much
time and energy into busting the narcissistic system. So you know,
call the clinic about it and we'll make sure that
(49:53):
you have that. If you're not going to go through therapy,
at least let me video you through healing from narcissistic abuse.
So what were we saying? What was the question? Oh like,
if you're disconnected from yourself, even yes, we want to
see what you bought into, you know, kind of like
(50:16):
better to reject myself than be rejected. So yeah, maybe,
but where's that getting you? Okay? So do you see this?
This mind map system is a way to identify a
system gone wrong. It's encode, decode, recode what the freud
(50:39):
you encoded so that we could take the garbage out
and decode it and then recode you into help. That's
the point. Okay, any other quick questions and then we'll
end the show.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Oh let's see. Well they said, God bless you, you
saved my life four years ago.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
That's so sweet. Thank you very very much. I really
appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
So it seems it sometimes. I know, as a podcast toast,
you don't realize the impact that you can make just
through your voice. And doctor Judy has always been here
for many years doing this, and and because she cares
(51:26):
about her audience, so you.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Know, I really really do appreciate hearing that. And oh, yeah,
you're right. Sometimes I forget or I don't. I don't know,
I don't know. I just sit here and talk. I
like to talk. I like to I like to talk
about the mind map and healing human disconnect. And I
believe in this system that I created because I've seen
(51:51):
it generate. So I just figure if I keep talking
and sharing this with people, then some people will actually
take it in and be affected by it in a
good way. And now, don't forget I've got the book,
I've got videos, I've got YouTube. So just keep learning,
(52:13):
keep growing, and don't let anybody put you at the
effect of another person, because ultimately we have to be
the cause of better outcomes for our lives because nobody's
going to do it for us.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Okay, Amen on that and I will see you next time.
(53:00):
Its medal YouTube. It is
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.