October 23, 2025 • 51 mins
If you’re in a relationship with a toxic friend, your mind, body, and soul already know it. You might feel constantly drained, heavy, tense, or plagued by headaches and stomachaches. Something inside you says this isn’t right—because it isn’t.
Toxic friendships often stem from your family blueprint gone wrong. When narcissistic or unempathic parents set the tone early in life, you may unconsciously attract similar people later on. It’s a true “What the Freud” moment!
Even if a toxic friend seems to bring some positive aspects into your life, don’t be fooled. As you grow and heal, your awareness shifts—and the relationship that once seemed fulfilling may start to feel unbearable. Eventually, you’ll recognize the truth: you’ve outgrown them, and the party’s over.
Subscribe now and don’t miss this honest, eye-opening conversation!
𝗦𝗨𝗕𝗦𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗕𝗘 | 𝗟𝗜𝗞𝗘 | 𝗦𝗛𝗔𝗥𝗘 | 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗘𝗡𝗧 | 𝗖𝗢𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗖𝗧
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📞 Call: 310. 739. 4491
✉️ info@psychologicalhealingcenter.com
🌐 https://psychologicalhealingcenter.com/
Toxic friendships often stem from your family blueprint gone wrong. When narcissistic or unempathic parents set the tone early in life, you may unconsciously attract similar people later on. It’s a true “What the Freud” moment!
Even if a toxic friend seems to bring some positive aspects into your life, don’t be fooled. As you grow and heal, your awareness shifts—and the relationship that once seemed fulfilling may start to feel unbearable. Eventually, you’ll recognize the truth: you’ve outgrown them, and the party’s over.
Subscribe now and don’t miss this honest, eye-opening conversation!
𝗦𝗨𝗕𝗦𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗕𝗘 | 𝗟𝗜𝗞𝗘 | 𝗦𝗛𝗔𝗥𝗘 | 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗘𝗡𝗧 | 𝗖𝗢𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗖𝗧
Start living the Mind Map Way!
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Follow Judy At:
𝗙𝗮𝗰𝗲𝗯𝗼𝗼𝗸: https://www.facebook.com/drjudyrosenberg
𝗜𝗻𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗴𝗿𝗮𝗺: https://www.instagram.com/drjudyrosen...
𝗧𝘄𝗶𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿: https://twitter.com/psychhealingcen
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𝗚𝗲𝘁 𝗬𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝘀𝘂𝗹𝘁𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻
📞 Call: 310. 739. 4491
✉️ info@psychologicalhealingcenter.com
🌐 https://psychologicalhealingcenter.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Hello everyone, and I so much for teaving the in
Doctor Judy's We're doctor Judy w t F. And today
we're going to talk about friendships that drain you and
letting go of toxic relationships. And this time the inspiration
came from my own life and mine letting go of
(01:03):
a friendship that was actually, I'll get into it. It
had some really, really wonderful aspects to it. It's just
that at the end of the day, I felt drained
by it and I just couldn't anymore. So if anybody
identifies with this, please know that this is a callin
(01:25):
show and my number is three two three five two
four two five nine nine. And just a little bit
about me for those of you who are tuning in
for the first time. I have a Psychological Healing Center,
which you can find at Psychologicalhealingcenter dot com. And I
have a mind map that I will work off of,
(01:48):
which has now been nicely animated on my website and
there it is the mind map. And we're going to
delve into the mind map so that you can understand
it in the context of the topic at hand today.
And so a little bit about the mind map. It
(02:09):
was something that I created decades ago to heal human
disconnect and global disconnect, to challenge that I am still
faced with and we'll delve into in this chapter of
my life. And also for those of you who are
smokers or no people who smoke, my Stop Smoking book
(02:34):
revised because I've done a couple of them. But this
is the deep dive into reasons why you smoke from
a mind map perspective called kick it, stop smoking in
five days and be the cause of better outcomes of
your life. And you can do it cold turkey, or
you can do it gradual withdrawal. Of course, the gradual
(02:56):
withdrawal will take longer than the five days, however, for
the choices yours. So toxic friendships and why it is
important to let them go? All right, So what is
a toxic friendship? I'm going to go to my panels.
Let's go through the panels and then we can apply it.
(03:19):
So if you look at panel number one, there's your
light to see in the background. Is that light that's
boosting through the darkness. And if you can metaphorically relate
to that light as your own light, the best of
your best self, your actualized light, your potential light. The
(03:44):
part of you that is in alignment with your authenticity,
as I like to say, and that can be defined
as your truth, your your best of your best. Okay,
we'll call it the best of your highest best. And
then those little dots on that surface represent all of
(04:09):
the shadows that stop you from growing. Okay, So some
of those shadows maybe verbal abuse. I'm now going through
the childhood's verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, smothering, narcissism,
which is, as many of you know, I specialize in,
(04:31):
which is a system gone wrong where people have no
empathy and they just don't feel or they don't feel enough,
or they don't feel for you, which allows them to
do things that violate other human beings. Because empathy is
(04:52):
a great feedback mechanism. If you feel for somebody, you
don't really want to hurt them because hurting them will
hurt you, Okay, So it's just an excellent thing to have.
Although in my case, I think I chose this profession,
the profession of psychology, because I have too much empathy
(05:15):
and I'm too generally too much of the people pleasing type.
So I've been obviously working on myself with that and
about that and with others and have expressed it in
the form of not allowing people that do not support
(05:38):
my light to play a big part in my life.
And so when I find that I'm around people that
don't magnify my light, support my light, then I don't
find value for myself in that. And then of course
(06:00):
there are other consequences of that, which I'll get into.
So Panel one, these wounds of childhood, neglects, smothering, control,
verbal abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, having narcissistic parents that
put themselves before you, these are all setups for your blueprint. Okay,
(06:23):
These are all setups for the people that you will
engage with, the people that you will sign up into
your life, the people that you will tolerate, the limitations
that you will put on yourself. And so don't forget
that anybody that is toxic in your life, for any
part of them that is toxic to your life, is
(06:47):
born out of your own childhood wounds. And if you
relate to Panel one as a kind of like a
body of a sell, Okay, you can seal the cellular structure,
then you can see that when you're wounded as a child,
your cellular structure, the structure of who you are has
(07:08):
been violated, and then those little holes that it creates
can allow people and other toxic entities to enter you.
And so this is what basically sets you up to
allow toxic people friends included, into your life. And so
(07:34):
through your own personal growth and struggles and experimentations with
your boundaries and being authentic to yourself, I think the
more authentic and in alignment you are with yourself, the
more you will realize that you just can't tolerate these
(07:56):
infiltrations if you will. Okay, so let's move to panel
two and talk about what happens when you do let
these toxic friends in. What happens is that there's a
sense of violation and a sense of pain. And I
also want to talk about the bargains that people enter
(08:19):
into and shamefully some of the bargains that I've entered
into in order to tolerate toxic relationships. So let's identify
some of the reasons why you would let a toxic
person into your life. Okay, So number one, maybe there
are aspects of them that are very supportive of who
(08:41):
you are. Maybe there are aspects of them that fulfill
certain needs, like the need for companionship, the need for socialization,
the need for exchange of ideas, the need for agreement,
the need for or esteeming you, the need, the need,
(09:03):
the need, the need. Okay, so you can see that
whenever I use the word need, there's a deficit. So,
whether it's me or you or anybody else out there,
when there is an unfulfilled need and you fill that
hole in the soul, which is what the childhood wounds created,
(09:25):
with an unfulfilling toxic friend, you can have a reaction, okay.
And I think that's what compelled me to finally realize
that I'm not in alignment by allowing for toxicity to
exist in my life. And so let's talk about these
(09:48):
reactions to allowing people into your life that are toxic.
And I want you to maybe conjure up somebody from
your own life. Okay, just take them in it, close
your eyes if you need to, and think about somebody
that has been useful, maybe even important to you, but
(10:11):
somebody that just doesn't feel right. And I'm simply talking
on a very simple level, they just don't feel right.
They you walk away tired afterwards, you walk away bored,
You walk away feeling like your head of integrity with yourself.
(10:34):
You walk away feeling like you've been drained of your ideas.
You walk away feeling like none of the human basic
needs that doctor John Bowlby, father of attachment theory, gave
talked about human needs like eye contact and skin contact
(10:55):
and mirroring and attiument and uh and and and empathy
and connection, and you walk away feeling like that's just
not there for you. And no matter how nice they
may be on the surface, the underlying emotional nourishment is scant, okay,
(11:23):
And no matter what you do, you cannot ignore it.
Because as doctor Hans Cellier talked about in his books
many years ago, I think it was called the relaxation response.
If I'm not mistaken, and if i am, I'm sure
somebody will correct me. That the mind and the body
are interconnected. And when you're around people that are not
(11:48):
mirroring you, at tuning you, empathizing with you, giving you
basic human connection, what happens, Well, I could speak to
that because I've done it, okay. So what happens internally
(12:09):
is that it's disruptive. It will disrupt your body and
you might notice that you get headaches and back aches
and feel tired and drained and that you can't think properly,
or your creativity light is dimmed, or your enthusiasm for
(12:29):
life is dimmed. And so when you continue to tolerate
toxic friends in your life, let's go back to panel
one for a minute, and then we'll connect the dots,
your life gets dimmer and dimmer and dimmer, and the
hole in the soul gets filled. However, it never gets
(12:53):
full filled, and this lack of fulfillment speaks volumes when
you react. It's a reaction of almost like capitulation to
these needs that we all have as human beings. But
when we put our needs into the hands of somebody
(13:13):
who cannot fulfill them in a healthy way, and vice versa,
of course you've got to also participate in filling theirs,
then it becomes more and more of a black hole. Okay,
And so any questions in the chat room or anybody.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Actually we do. And I wouldn't mind if after you
answer this question, I even have a question from myself
because I think I think probably ninety nine point nine
percent of have had these type of friendships. So, but
it says, why does losing a toxic friend sometimes hurt
(13:55):
more than ending a romantic relationship.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Wow, okay, let me think on that.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You just challenge my Ooh, I like it, thank you,
I like it.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Brought me off my usual quick answers here. Losing a
toxic friend, I think sometimes it's more subtle because you're
not maybe as emotionally invested as you are in a
romantic relationship. You have you lean more on them in
terms of your needs met, and your life revolves around
(14:30):
them a little bit more. In the case of my situation,
lives were not as entwined. They were somewhat entwined, but
not very entwined. So I think the more entwined you are,
the more. But you're saying that it's harder to lose
(14:52):
the toxic friend.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, they're saying it's it's that when they lost
their toxic friend, it was like losing a relationship, or
sometimes it felt harder losing a romantic relationship.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So okay, that's interesting because you think intuitively it would
be the opposite. Yes, right, So why would it be
so that losing the toxic friend, Well, it depends on
the level of entwinement. If you really leaned on this
friend for many of your needs and then you suddenly
(15:30):
grow to the point where critical mass happens and you
just can't anymore. And this person has been, for example,
let's say, supporting you or being your social body and
appearing on all kinds of social engagements with you. That
(15:51):
is a significant part of life, isn't it. And so
I think the loss here is that it unstructures you. Okay,
a toxic friend can be in your life for a
long long time, because in my case, it gave a
(16:11):
lot of structure to my life. It put me on
a schedule, It allowed me to have a plus one
figure next to me if I needed that, and all
of that had benefits. So you know, whenever we lose benefits,
(16:32):
we feel that there's a loss. However, this is where
you have to evaluate very carefully. Are these benefits recapitulating
your childhood injuries? And are you in the same emotional
bubble as you were with your family of origin? And
(16:54):
if you are, then you are doing what I call
a WTF. So since I was doing my own WTF
until I couldn't any longer and couldn't justify it, especially
since I'm a role model to other people, and I
don't want a role model to others to continue things
(17:16):
that don't feel authentic and don't bring out your light.
And so it's not as simple as just losing the person.
You're losing activities, you're losing possibly social status, you're losing
a memory bank. Okay, these are very significant because you've
(17:39):
made memories with this person. So, especially if the relationship
has been a long term one, there's so much to
it in that every single event that you've gone to,
every dinner that you've had, every encounter that you have had,
is loaded with memories, some good and mainly some not
(18:03):
so good, which is why you walk away.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And so.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's it's again going back to childhood wounds. What is
it that compels one to be in a relationship that's
not nourishing. Well, let's go back to the cause. And
if you haven't received my book, Be the Couse Healing
Human Disconnect, please either pick up a copy through Amazon
(18:30):
dot com where you can get a free PDF from
the Clinics Psychological Healing Center. But basically we copycat the atmosphere,
the emotional atmosphere that our parents laid down for us.
So coming from parents who weren't the best at mirroring
(18:54):
and tuning and empathizing and emotionally nourishing. My tolerance for
non nourishing relationships was higher. Okay, so I had a
sort of a thick skin for it, if you will.
(19:14):
It's just that I don't want to have a thick
skin to that. I don't. I'd rather have a vulnerable life.
I would rather have people even nobody. Oh that's the
other thing, because if you give up a toxic friend,
then you have no body next to you. And what
(19:35):
does no plus body spell? Right?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Nobody?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Nobody, So there's no body.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Actually, that's what I was going to ask you, because
I hate to interrupt, because that's exactly what I was
going to say. Now, at fifty six years old and going,
you know, have had many romantic relationships. I'm married, which
I'm happy about, but I've had many friends, and a
(20:06):
lot of them that were toxic. Now, I honestly, I
just don't have any energy to even want to start
new relationships or new friendships.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Exactly because people today are not at their healthiest. So,
you know, I'm in a position where I feel like,
oh my god, do I have to cure the world
for me to have the friendships and relationships like Wow,
I've got to do it all, you know, And then
that goes back to childhood wounds like parentified child and
(20:36):
fixing your parents and all of that kind of stuff.
And at some point, Tony, and you must know this,
it's so draining, right, and so tiresome and boring, okay,
And and I want you to know I'm the kind
of person that will talk to the person the toxic
(20:59):
friend and say, look, you know this and this and
this is why I'm pulling away. I've said some things
like I can't fill your heart, you know. Is that
an insult? I don't think so, it's the truth. I
just couldn't feel the person's heart, and it just made
(21:27):
it such that everything was you know the term musac right,
musaic You get in an elevator, and it's a truncated
version of the song, and each encounter is just like
the same old and the same old. And you know,
it's a part of all of us that likes routine
(21:48):
because it makes us feel safe and comfortable. And this
person also had a lot of beautiful qualities like loyalty
and well educated and generous to certain degree in all
of it. And you know, it's sort of like augh
(22:10):
sad because now you've got no body. However, at some
point critical mass happens, and so let's journey along the
mind map to see how that happens. So panel number three,
(22:31):
So what is it that people in code there? I'm
not enough, I'm not good enough, I don't deserve better
than this. I'm always going to be alone, I'll never
meet the love of my life, I'll never have anything
better than this. This is the best that you can do,
reinforced by people around you who say things that confuse you,
(22:56):
like no, no, no, why would you think that of
this person. This person's very nice to you. This person
is you know, a loyal to you. This person is
somebody that's dependable. This person is somebody intelligent. This person
is somebody who shows up. So that's where the guilt starts. Okay,
(23:20):
So after doing that, I have to say that I'm
feeling a large dose of guilt because, you know, don't
want to hurt anybody, don't want to do something that
maybe I will regret to have done, and so forth.
(23:44):
It's just that the truth is that even though I
have those feelings, and those are normal feelings to have,
there's a sense of relief, and sometimes no thing is
better than the wrong something. Can people identify with that?
(24:07):
Is there anybody in the audience that can identify with
what I just said? But sometimes the no thing is
better than the wrong something? How did you feel about that, Tony,
when you let go of people that didn't serve you
any longer.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I guess it just depends how it ended. I've had
people where it honestly, because of the way it ended,
I kind of just shut it out and just went
on and said it was for the best. And then
there are some people that even to this day I
(24:48):
miss their company or you know, their friendship. So I
guess it just depends on how it ended and.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
What they brought to you. Yeah, like they brought to
you and I you know, again, if I were to
if I were to speak hard to heart to this person,
and I did give the person so many opportunities and
so many times I would point out things that hurt
me or disturb me, and they were all along the
(25:21):
theme of narcissism. And the answer was, let me think
about that. And then the next step was, please get
some help. I don't want to be your therapist. Please
get some help. No motion, no movement. So I don't
give up the fight. I do express and also offer
(25:45):
a pathway to growth. But you know, if they don't
take it, if I'm if I'm growing and they're just stagnating, then.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Right, is it possible? And that's somebody else has a
question that kind of leads into this question that they
were toxic all along, but just because you grew as
a person, you started seeing the toxicity of that person,
just because of your growth.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I think that's a big part of it. In my
particular case, I always saw the toxicity, but I also
saw the benefits and selfishly, okay, because I like to
own my own stuff too. I talk about it and
I like to do it selfishly. I was getting some
(26:37):
benefits out of it, you know, the company, the dinners
out and so on, and so I don't think I
was ready to let go of it. However, I started
feeling angry, I started feeling drained. I started feeling like
I wasn't looking forward to seeing this person. And then
(27:00):
after a while I had to say to myself, you know,
this is not nice. It's not nice to me, it's
not nice to the person, and I need to just
be in truth about all of this, and I cannot
go on any longer. So yeah, it's true that when
(27:21):
you grow. And I think part of it is that
lately I've been focusing so much on self growth and
thinking things through and taking responsibility and reviewing my own life.
Even though I am a psychologist and a teacher, you know,
I also have to learn for myself and then through
my own example, teach other people. And so when something
(27:46):
like this comes up, I also look at it as
an opportunity for myself to grow opportunity. And you know,
if I were to talk to this person, I genuinely
wish the person the best, really really do. I don't
harbor any anger towards the person because I tried so
(28:06):
hard to get this person to self reflect and self correct. Unfortunately,
the defense mechanism of narcissism interprets self reflection as self
blame and shame, and so I couldn't get behind the
narcissistic wall as much as I wanted to, and I tried.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And then doctor Judy, we have a call.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Oh wonderful, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yes a friend substance abuse.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yes, Hello, thank you so much for calling in.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Oh hi, doctor Judy. Firstly, thank you so much for
all the wisdom you put out in the world and
share my question. Thank you, You're welcome. My question is,
if you have a toxic friend who perhaps some of
their toxicity comes from a substance abuse issue, how can
that be approached the kindness and love even though one
(29:04):
may feel the friendship has run its course or do
they not? Do you mean?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Because I can totally identify it with that, and that
was part of the problem. Okay, So first of all,
I want you to know that if somebody is using
a substance and abusing a substance, and sometimes it's hard
to know the difference, but when somebody is using it
every single day, I call that abuse. Okay, sorry, I do.
(29:34):
If a person can't even sit down at the on
your couch without having a drink first, that's a problem.
And so what what you're up against in that case
is a lot of hopelessness because they're filling their hole
(29:55):
in the soul, okay, with their sing of their emotion.
And whenever you numb your emotions, you don't feel your emotions.
And when you don't feel your emotions, you don't grow.
So you know, it's just a given that they don't
like how they feel. Let's drink to that. They don't
(30:15):
like the way, let's drink to that. They don't like this,
they don't like that. Okay, let's just drink to that.
And there's no growth with people who numb themselves. They're
just simply And that was part of my reasoning for this.
This just never going to be growth. So we go
(30:37):
back to your question that what do you? What do
you do in the.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
You when you have let's say you have a friendship
that's come to a terminal point because as you've been discussing,
perhaps my own awareness has grown or or how I
see things that maybe they are always trauma dumping and
I realized that they also have an alcohol abuse issue.
(31:02):
Is there any value in saying to them? And is
there a loving way to say you're an alcoholic or
I wish you could get some help? Or is that what?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
What do you?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
What do you? What's your advice?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Well, yeah, I've tried that and uh doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yes, it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
It's valid because you you know, you can't wish for somebody.
I wish for my friend to be sober, and I
wish for my friend to be a deep soul, and
I wish for my friend to be on a growth path.
And I wish for my friend to have a big, loving, generous,
open heart. But what's wrong with my statements?
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I guess they're all based on something I want.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yes, does my friend wish to be sober? No? Does
my friend wish to drop the narcissistic defenses no to threatening.
Does my friend wish for the things that I wish
for my friend? Absolutely not? Okay?
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Do you think it's an enlightened to tell a friend
that you wish these things for them as a way
of saying goodbye? Or is it almost seemed like in
itself could be considered abusive on their side?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
You mean to tell me maybe if I would have.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Mm hm Yes, like to say I feel like, you know,
to say something kind, but say I hope that I
hope that you can find someone to talk to and
maybe try out. I know what you can just imagine who.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
You know. Sometimes words do not hit, So I'd like
to say that in my heart to this person, it's
just that I know that they're blocked. Let's say I like,
I like talk talking about energy and sending them telepathic
(33:01):
messages if you will, I know that sounds okay, But
you know, if I were to send a message, I
would say, you know, I hope you heal. I hope
you know that that that I wish for you, that
you would grow and open your heart to love and
open your heart to self growth. It's just that I
(33:26):
can't say those words because they are going to be
deflected and defended against. Okay, you see.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yes, yes, I do see. So in a way it
can take the sensation of feeling guilty because I'm wishing
or praying or communicating in dreams to help them and
maybe they'll pick it up.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Maybe they will pick it up, but you know, their
injuries are such that it's too threatening. You know, Like,
as long as I played along with the game, everything
was okay. But then when I busted the game, and
I did, I busted the game several times. There were
several times where my saying goodbye was not so nice.
(34:10):
I tried, and it wasn't nice because right in the storm,
they're doing something so obnoxiously narcissistic that I couldn't stand
it anymore. And then they would start say backpedaling, and
so I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. You know, I'll
(34:30):
do it better or yeah, you're right, I want to
take responsibility. But you know, people might say those words,
but if there's no change to those words, then they're
just words. They're just words of appeasement so that they
can take the ride for a longer journey with you.
(34:52):
And I'm so sorry, but I'm running out of fuel
for that.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I'll put thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You're so welcome, Thank you so much for calling in.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Oh, thank you, doctor Judy. Take care, take care.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, this is something that I think everybody faces. What
do you do about that? Because not every friendship is
going to be super nourishing, you know, not every friendship
is going to be like, you know, like a organic
chock full of vitamins and minerals and love and light
(35:32):
and so on. I recognize that. And then there's the
thought of, well, if I'm gonna put such harsh boundaries
on people, then you know, I won't have anybody in
my life, and that's not so cool either. And sometimes
I just have to sort of say to myself, well,
(35:53):
this person I can be with because I've nourished in
this way and that way. It's not perfect, but you
know they're not you know, they're also adding light to
my life. As long as somebody adds light to my light,
(36:15):
I can be with that. I can be with that.
Any other questions in the chat room, anybody else want
to talk about the draining effects of a toxic friend
and why it's important to release.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
There's a question, and it kind of leads to what
he was saying. It says, after cutting ties with a
draining friend, how do you heal and open up or
open to new healthier relationships? And it's kind of like
we've been talking about, but maybe that needs to be repeated.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, And so I think the first thing is just
to appreciate and congratulate yourself for choose yourself. Okay, that's
really important, instead of kicking yourself in the button saying, oh,
I'm such a horrible person for ending this because they
weren't that bad, you know, they weren't beating me or
(37:12):
anything like that. Just to congratulate yourself for for tuning
into your own intuitive needs and realizing that this was
not healthy for you. So that's the first thing. Second
thing is to appreciate the space that you now have,
(37:34):
which may be a little bit scary, okay, because now
your whole life calendar is off. Okay, you no longer
have your calendar filled with events with this person, and
now you're forced to grow even more. How about that?
(37:55):
So now I'm forced to fill that with better things.
Sometimes it'll be as simple as getting more sleep, or
hanging out with my dogs more, or getting more involved
in my projects, or signing up for more classes, or
attempting to meet people who are more of my growth
(38:21):
partner requirements. So then that that comes next is feeling
the emptiness. So sometimes let me let me mind map it,
and I think you'll understand it better. So remember panel
three is your negative core beliefs that led you to
pick these people. Core beliefs like I'm not enough, I'll
(38:43):
never be enough, I'm not good enough, I don't deserve Okay,
So then you go pick these people and you try
to hold the bond together, but it doesn't work because
you're now in panel four chaos okay, which is uh,
you know, you're denying the care chaos. So you try
to stick the bond together. Oh you was so nice
(39:04):
or she was so sweet to me. Oh this person
they did nice things for me. So you try to
glue the bond together, but it lacks the backbone, Okay,
it lacks their mental health and also your own. And
then you go into panel number five, which are those
(39:24):
defense mechanisms, whether they are you know, the person was
using alcohol, or your own defense mechanisms, which might sound like, yeah,
but the person wasn't that bad, or you know, I
shouldn't do that to the person because it's going to
hurt them, or it's going to disrupt their life, or
(39:45):
people outside that have been part of this community that
you've created aren't going to be happy to lose their buddy,
or you know, like these these lives tied again, and
so now you know their family and they know yours,
and so the chaos is, you know, it's big. It's
(40:07):
like releasing a toxic bomb. There's going to be fallout
material and then there's going to be defense around it.
And at the end you've got to decide, you know,
do you want to stay with your excuses and shore
up this relationship that hasn't served you and then just
(40:28):
get more and more angry. So if those bubbles represent
your boiling feelings, you know, they're just getting bigger and
bigger and bigger, and your resentment towards the person is growing.
But not only that, your resentment towards yourself is growing
because you start hating yourself for being inauthentic. You start
(40:51):
hating yourself for not living your truth. And then panel
six finally comes or not for panel six breakdown, you
have to have some kind of a breakdown to break through.
So maybe the breakdown is I just don't feel well anymore,
or I just can't tolerate the level of narcissistic behavior,
(41:16):
or that is just so offensive, or that is just
so out of line and not right with my value system,
and then you've got to do something about that. The
other thing that you can do is just keep holding
it in and implode and get in fights with the person,
(41:37):
which was starting to happen. I was starting to fight
with the person. I think I fought with this person
all along, but the fights were getting more around the behavior,
like I can't believe you did that. I can't believe
you did that, and you know, and this indignancy grew
inside of me to the point where I started talking
(42:01):
to people. I started talking to friends and other professionals,
and you know, they started mirroring back, like, well, some
people say said, well, just spend less time with the person.
That was a defense mechanism. Okay, I'll just spend less time,
but actually it wasn't that. Anytime with this person was
(42:26):
not nourishing. Not less time, but anytime. Like if somebody said, oh,
we could just pop this person back into your life,
I would just say no, I'll just go through my
whatever level of grief for you know, feelings that I
(42:49):
have to process. But I'm good with closing my boundaries
to this and teaching myself that this cannot happen in
the future because I'm laying down a prototype for myself
that I'm saying that this is the end of the
this is the end game. I'm not letting people like
(43:11):
this into my life if they don't nourish me, if
I don't nourish them, if it's not what I call
a synergistic relationship. And I'll get to that next, which
is panel number seven. This is the only kind of
relationship I want. Whether it's a friendship or a romantic
relationship or a business partnership, all I want is a
(43:35):
synergistic relationship based on authenticity and truth and goodwill and
light because one plus one when we play that better
game of life, as I like to say in my book,
be the cause of better outcomes for your life. The
only way that happens is when you create synergistic relationship.
(44:00):
And if you're feeling very alone because you've dropped so
many people, then maybe you need to recalibrate and rebalance.
Then maybe you have to tear your own system down
and beset your boundaries and make a new contract with yourself.
So that's what I've done, is I've contracted with myself
(44:20):
not to allow people like that into my life, so
I don't have to drag it out and justify and
fake it, because you know, the main thing that really
rupts me the wrong way is to fake something that
is not really authentic and life giving for me. Is
(44:45):
that a call?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
No call? But I do have another question if you
want to take.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
It, please please.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
It says, why do we keep going back to friends
who drain us emotionally even when you know they're not
good for us?
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Because we're doing with the freud because of everything that
I've talked about your childhood injuries that you're used to
it it's familial and familiar. You guys should get my
video Healing from Narcissistic Abuse. Seriously, you should get that one.
It'll explain it in a compact manner. But yeah, you've
(45:25):
been blueprinted to tolerate that stuff, low level stuff, and
then your core belief is I can't do any better
than that. I don't deserve better. Where am I going
to find different people? That's been my challenge is finding
people of the caliber that I want to relate to.
It's very, very difficult. It's not an easy thing. And
(45:48):
if you're having an easy time, I'd love to hear
from you, because I want to know where you're finding
all these wonderful people. But you know, remember, we're not
in the best shape on our planet. I mean, just
look at the disconnection from ourselves, the cell phone usage,
the drug usage, the porn usage, the lack of family unity,
(46:11):
the clash within our own families, and then that extends
to our global situation, which is the dissolving of the
human race, which I want to start really digging into
and addressing. And so you know that brings me to
healing global disconnect. Why are we a bunch of isms?
(46:34):
And what happened to us? And why do we kill
each other? And why do we lack empathy? And why
do we live such divisional lives, and why can't we
be synergistic with others? And who can we be synergistic with?
And when is the time to let communities go or
(46:54):
interacting with people that are not going to bring us light.
You know, it's the same thing macro micro, That's what
the mind map is. It's a micro model, but it's
also a macro model that speaks to the Join the
Human Race quote, which goes something like, we have risen
(47:17):
to tremendous heights as a human race, and yet we're
fractured in terms of our race, religion, culture, politics, everything. Okay,
and we have done remarkable things as human beings. We
have cure disease, We've landed on the moon, We've done
(47:38):
remarkably beautiful things, great art, literature, music. So you know,
the last challenge which I'd like to challenge myself and
you with, is how do we come together as a
united humanity when we are so different in our isms
(47:59):
political coalisms, and racialisms and cultural isms and sexual orientation
isms and any kind of isms like foundationally, how do
we treat ourselves as humane? Because that's the point of
Join the Human Race. Healing global disconnect is creating a
(48:23):
humane society that's synergistic, and that's that's my that's what
I see as my purpose on the planet, you know.
And so part of that is getting rid of people
that are toxic and joining with the forces that are
synergistic and building a Panel eight. If you look at
(48:45):
my mind map, Panel eight is about healing. It's about
climbing the ladder of evolution, and those little people on
the ladder are your growth partners. They're helping you, You're
helping them, and you're climbing the ladder to evolve. And
as a result, you could see that the water on
(49:07):
the planet is blue and turqu wise, and the planet
looks healthy, and the DNA that we're building together is strong,
and it is in authenticity, and it is the system
gone right. And we need all of that which I
(49:27):
talked about to create united humanity, which is my panel
number nine, where we are loving, kind, respectful, And those
are those dolphins which represent the wisdom masters my body, soul,
and our respect for not only the humans, but the
animals and the entire entire ecosystem of our planet. So
(49:54):
that's what I mean by healing global disconnect and healing
human disconnect, because can heal globally until you've healed individually.
So you know, there's a part of me that thinks
that we need more work to heal individually before moving
on to global healing. It's just that, you know, time
(50:15):
is running short, and we've got to reach critical mass
where people are sick and tired of the hate. They're
sick and tired of the divisional lines. And that doesn't
mean that we've got to join hands with everybody on
the planet, because some people are not principled, they're not loving,
(50:37):
they're not kind, So those are the toxic people to
put boundaries on. We cannot create a humane race with
inhumane people. So those are my parting words. Any comments,
any questions.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
No more comments, and no more questions. But that was
a great show.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Yeah, thank you very much. I really appreciate your call
in and the questions, and Tony for bringing up your
own examples. Thank you and I'll see you next time.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Goodbye, us
Speaker 1 (51:38):
PAKS.
Hello everyone, and I so much for teaving the in
Doctor Judy's We're doctor Judy w t F. And today
we're going to talk about friendships that drain you and
letting go of toxic relationships. And this time the inspiration
came from my own life and mine letting go of
(01:03):
a friendship that was actually, I'll get into it. It
had some really, really wonderful aspects to it. It's just
that at the end of the day, I felt drained
by it and I just couldn't anymore. So if anybody
identifies with this, please know that this is a callin
(01:25):
show and my number is three two three five two
four two five nine nine. And just a little bit
about me for those of you who are tuning in
for the first time. I have a Psychological Healing Center,
which you can find at Psychologicalhealingcenter dot com. And I
have a mind map that I will work off of,
(01:48):
which has now been nicely animated on my website and
there it is the mind map. And we're going to
delve into the mind map so that you can understand
it in the context of the topic at hand today.
And so a little bit about the mind map. It
(02:09):
was something that I created decades ago to heal human
disconnect and global disconnect, to challenge that I am still
faced with and we'll delve into in this chapter of
my life. And also for those of you who are
smokers or no people who smoke, my Stop Smoking book
(02:34):
revised because I've done a couple of them. But this
is the deep dive into reasons why you smoke from
a mind map perspective called kick it, stop smoking in
five days and be the cause of better outcomes of
your life. And you can do it cold turkey, or
you can do it gradual withdrawal. Of course, the gradual
(02:56):
withdrawal will take longer than the five days, however, for
the choices yours. So toxic friendships and why it is
important to let them go? All right, So what is
a toxic friendship? I'm going to go to my panels.
Let's go through the panels and then we can apply it.
(03:19):
So if you look at panel number one, there's your
light to see in the background. Is that light that's
boosting through the darkness. And if you can metaphorically relate
to that light as your own light, the best of
your best self, your actualized light, your potential light. The
(03:44):
part of you that is in alignment with your authenticity,
as I like to say, and that can be defined
as your truth, your your best of your best. Okay,
we'll call it the best of your highest best. And
then those little dots on that surface represent all of
(04:09):
the shadows that stop you from growing. Okay, So some
of those shadows maybe verbal abuse. I'm now going through
the childhood's verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, smothering, narcissism,
which is, as many of you know, I specialize in,
(04:31):
which is a system gone wrong where people have no
empathy and they just don't feel or they don't feel enough,
or they don't feel for you, which allows them to
do things that violate other human beings. Because empathy is
(04:52):
a great feedback mechanism. If you feel for somebody, you
don't really want to hurt them because hurting them will
hurt you, Okay, So it's just an excellent thing to have.
Although in my case, I think I chose this profession,
the profession of psychology, because I have too much empathy
(05:15):
and I'm too generally too much of the people pleasing type.
So I've been obviously working on myself with that and
about that and with others and have expressed it in
the form of not allowing people that do not support
(05:38):
my light to play a big part in my life.
And so when I find that I'm around people that
don't magnify my light, support my light, then I don't
find value for myself in that. And then of course
(06:00):
there are other consequences of that, which I'll get into.
So Panel one, these wounds of childhood, neglects, smothering, control,
verbal abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, having narcissistic parents that
put themselves before you, these are all setups for your blueprint. Okay,
(06:23):
These are all setups for the people that you will
engage with, the people that you will sign up into
your life, the people that you will tolerate, the limitations
that you will put on yourself. And so don't forget
that anybody that is toxic in your life, for any
part of them that is toxic to your life, is
(06:47):
born out of your own childhood wounds. And if you
relate to Panel one as a kind of like a
body of a sell, Okay, you can seal the cellular structure,
then you can see that when you're wounded as a child,
your cellular structure, the structure of who you are has
(07:08):
been violated, and then those little holes that it creates
can allow people and other toxic entities to enter you.
And so this is what basically sets you up to
allow toxic people friends included, into your life. And so
(07:34):
through your own personal growth and struggles and experimentations with
your boundaries and being authentic to yourself, I think the
more authentic and in alignment you are with yourself, the
more you will realize that you just can't tolerate these
(07:56):
infiltrations if you will. Okay, so let's move to panel
two and talk about what happens when you do let
these toxic friends in. What happens is that there's a
sense of violation and a sense of pain. And I
also want to talk about the bargains that people enter
(08:19):
into and shamefully some of the bargains that I've entered
into in order to tolerate toxic relationships. So let's identify
some of the reasons why you would let a toxic
person into your life. Okay, So number one, maybe there
are aspects of them that are very supportive of who
(08:41):
you are. Maybe there are aspects of them that fulfill
certain needs, like the need for companionship, the need for socialization,
the need for exchange of ideas, the need for agreement,
the need for or esteeming you, the need, the need,
(09:03):
the need, the need. Okay, so you can see that
whenever I use the word need, there's a deficit. So,
whether it's me or you or anybody else out there,
when there is an unfulfilled need and you fill that
hole in the soul, which is what the childhood wounds created,
(09:25):
with an unfulfilling toxic friend, you can have a reaction, okay.
And I think that's what compelled me to finally realize
that I'm not in alignment by allowing for toxicity to
exist in my life. And so let's talk about these
(09:48):
reactions to allowing people into your life that are toxic.
And I want you to maybe conjure up somebody from
your own life. Okay, just take them in it, close
your eyes if you need to, and think about somebody
that has been useful, maybe even important to you, but
(10:11):
somebody that just doesn't feel right. And I'm simply talking
on a very simple level, they just don't feel right.
They you walk away tired afterwards, you walk away bored,
You walk away feeling like your head of integrity with yourself.
(10:34):
You walk away feeling like you've been drained of your ideas.
You walk away feeling like none of the human basic
needs that doctor John Bowlby, father of attachment theory, gave
talked about human needs like eye contact and skin contact
(10:55):
and mirroring and attiument and uh and and and empathy
and connection, and you walk away feeling like that's just
not there for you. And no matter how nice they
may be on the surface, the underlying emotional nourishment is scant, okay,
(11:23):
And no matter what you do, you cannot ignore it.
Because as doctor Hans Cellier talked about in his books
many years ago, I think it was called the relaxation response.
If I'm not mistaken, and if i am, I'm sure
somebody will correct me. That the mind and the body
are interconnected. And when you're around people that are not
(11:48):
mirroring you, at tuning you, empathizing with you, giving you
basic human connection, what happens, Well, I could speak to
that because I've done it, okay. So what happens internally
(12:09):
is that it's disruptive. It will disrupt your body and
you might notice that you get headaches and back aches
and feel tired and drained and that you can't think properly,
or your creativity light is dimmed, or your enthusiasm for
(12:29):
life is dimmed. And so when you continue to tolerate
toxic friends in your life, let's go back to panel
one for a minute, and then we'll connect the dots,
your life gets dimmer and dimmer and dimmer, and the
hole in the soul gets filled. However, it never gets
(12:53):
full filled, and this lack of fulfillment speaks volumes when
you react. It's a reaction of almost like capitulation to
these needs that we all have as human beings. But
when we put our needs into the hands of somebody
(13:13):
who cannot fulfill them in a healthy way, and vice versa,
of course you've got to also participate in filling theirs,
then it becomes more and more of a black hole. Okay,
And so any questions in the chat room or anybody.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Actually we do. And I wouldn't mind if after you
answer this question, I even have a question from myself
because I think I think probably ninety nine point nine
percent of have had these type of friendships. So, but
it says, why does losing a toxic friend sometimes hurt
(13:55):
more than ending a romantic relationship.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Wow, okay, let me think on that.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You just challenge my Ooh, I like it, thank you,
I like it.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Brought me off my usual quick answers here. Losing a
toxic friend, I think sometimes it's more subtle because you're
not maybe as emotionally invested as you are in a
romantic relationship. You have you lean more on them in
terms of your needs met, and your life revolves around
(14:30):
them a little bit more. In the case of my situation,
lives were not as entwined. They were somewhat entwined, but
not very entwined. So I think the more entwined you are,
the more. But you're saying that it's harder to lose
(14:52):
the toxic friend.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, they're saying it's it's that when they lost
their toxic friend, it was like losing a relationship, or
sometimes it felt harder losing a romantic relationship.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So okay, that's interesting because you think intuitively it would
be the opposite. Yes, right, So why would it be
so that losing the toxic friend, Well, it depends on
the level of entwinement. If you really leaned on this
friend for many of your needs and then you suddenly
(15:30):
grow to the point where critical mass happens and you
just can't anymore. And this person has been, for example,
let's say, supporting you or being your social body and
appearing on all kinds of social engagements with you. That
(15:51):
is a significant part of life, isn't it. And so
I think the loss here is that it unstructures you. Okay,
a toxic friend can be in your life for a
long long time, because in my case, it gave a
(16:11):
lot of structure to my life. It put me on
a schedule, It allowed me to have a plus one
figure next to me if I needed that, and all
of that had benefits. So you know, whenever we lose benefits,
(16:32):
we feel that there's a loss. However, this is where
you have to evaluate very carefully. Are these benefits recapitulating
your childhood injuries? And are you in the same emotional
bubble as you were with your family of origin? And
(16:54):
if you are, then you are doing what I call
a WTF. So since I was doing my own WTF
until I couldn't any longer and couldn't justify it, especially
since I'm a role model to other people, and I
don't want a role model to others to continue things
(17:16):
that don't feel authentic and don't bring out your light.
And so it's not as simple as just losing the person.
You're losing activities, you're losing possibly social status, you're losing
a memory bank. Okay, these are very significant because you've
(17:39):
made memories with this person. So, especially if the relationship
has been a long term one, there's so much to
it in that every single event that you've gone to,
every dinner that you've had, every encounter that you have had,
is loaded with memories, some good and mainly some not
(18:03):
so good, which is why you walk away.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And so.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's it's again going back to childhood wounds. What is
it that compels one to be in a relationship that's
not nourishing. Well, let's go back to the cause. And
if you haven't received my book, Be the Couse Healing
Human Disconnect, please either pick up a copy through Amazon
(18:30):
dot com where you can get a free PDF from
the Clinics Psychological Healing Center. But basically we copycat the atmosphere,
the emotional atmosphere that our parents laid down for us.
So coming from parents who weren't the best at mirroring
(18:54):
and tuning and empathizing and emotionally nourishing. My tolerance for
non nourishing relationships was higher. Okay, so I had a
sort of a thick skin for it, if you will.
(19:14):
It's just that I don't want to have a thick
skin to that. I don't. I'd rather have a vulnerable life.
I would rather have people even nobody. Oh that's the
other thing, because if you give up a toxic friend,
then you have no body next to you. And what
(19:35):
does no plus body spell? Right?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Nobody?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Nobody, So there's no body.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Actually, that's what I was going to ask you, because
I hate to interrupt, because that's exactly what I was
going to say. Now, at fifty six years old and going,
you know, have had many romantic relationships. I'm married, which
I'm happy about, but I've had many friends, and a
(20:06):
lot of them that were toxic. Now, I honestly, I
just don't have any energy to even want to start
new relationships or new friendships.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Exactly because people today are not at their healthiest. So,
you know, I'm in a position where I feel like,
oh my god, do I have to cure the world
for me to have the friendships and relationships like Wow,
I've got to do it all, you know, And then
that goes back to childhood wounds like parentified child and
(20:36):
fixing your parents and all of that kind of stuff.
And at some point, Tony, and you must know this,
it's so draining, right, and so tiresome and boring, okay,
And and I want you to know I'm the kind
of person that will talk to the person the toxic
(20:59):
friend and say, look, you know this and this and
this is why I'm pulling away. I've said some things
like I can't fill your heart, you know. Is that
an insult? I don't think so, it's the truth. I
just couldn't feel the person's heart, and it just made
(21:27):
it such that everything was you know the term musac right,
musaic You get in an elevator, and it's a truncated
version of the song, and each encounter is just like
the same old and the same old. And you know,
it's a part of all of us that likes routine
(21:48):
because it makes us feel safe and comfortable. And this
person also had a lot of beautiful qualities like loyalty
and well educated and generous to certain degree in all
of it. And you know, it's sort of like augh
(22:10):
sad because now you've got no body. However, at some
point critical mass happens, and so let's journey along the
mind map to see how that happens. So panel number three,
(22:31):
So what is it that people in code there? I'm
not enough, I'm not good enough, I don't deserve better
than this. I'm always going to be alone, I'll never
meet the love of my life, I'll never have anything
better than this. This is the best that you can do,
reinforced by people around you who say things that confuse you,
(22:56):
like no, no, no, why would you think that of
this person. This person's very nice to you. This person
is you know, a loyal to you. This person is
somebody that's dependable. This person is somebody intelligent. This person
is somebody who shows up. So that's where the guilt starts. Okay,
(23:20):
So after doing that, I have to say that I'm
feeling a large dose of guilt because, you know, don't
want to hurt anybody, don't want to do something that
maybe I will regret to have done, and so forth.
(23:44):
It's just that the truth is that even though I
have those feelings, and those are normal feelings to have,
there's a sense of relief, and sometimes no thing is
better than the wrong something. Can people identify with that?
(24:07):
Is there anybody in the audience that can identify with
what I just said? But sometimes the no thing is
better than the wrong something? How did you feel about that, Tony,
when you let go of people that didn't serve you
any longer.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I guess it just depends how it ended. I've had
people where it honestly, because of the way it ended,
I kind of just shut it out and just went
on and said it was for the best. And then
there are some people that even to this day I
(24:48):
miss their company or you know, their friendship. So I
guess it just depends on how it ended and.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
What they brought to you. Yeah, like they brought to
you and I you know, again, if I were to
if I were to speak hard to heart to this person,
and I did give the person so many opportunities and
so many times I would point out things that hurt
me or disturb me, and they were all along the
(25:21):
theme of narcissism. And the answer was, let me think
about that. And then the next step was, please get
some help. I don't want to be your therapist. Please
get some help. No motion, no movement. So I don't
give up the fight. I do express and also offer
(25:45):
a pathway to growth. But you know, if they don't
take it, if I'm if I'm growing and they're just stagnating, then.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Right, is it possible? And that's somebody else has a
question that kind of leads into this question that they
were toxic all along, but just because you grew as
a person, you started seeing the toxicity of that person,
just because of your growth.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I think that's a big part of it. In my
particular case, I always saw the toxicity, but I also
saw the benefits and selfishly, okay, because I like to
own my own stuff too. I talk about it and
I like to do it selfishly. I was getting some
(26:37):
benefits out of it, you know, the company, the dinners
out and so on, and so I don't think I
was ready to let go of it. However, I started
feeling angry, I started feeling drained. I started feeling like
I wasn't looking forward to seeing this person. And then
(27:00):
after a while I had to say to myself, you know,
this is not nice. It's not nice to me, it's
not nice to the person, and I need to just
be in truth about all of this, and I cannot
go on any longer. So yeah, it's true that when
(27:21):
you grow. And I think part of it is that
lately I've been focusing so much on self growth and
thinking things through and taking responsibility and reviewing my own life.
Even though I am a psychologist and a teacher, you know,
I also have to learn for myself and then through
my own example, teach other people. And so when something
(27:46):
like this comes up, I also look at it as
an opportunity for myself to grow opportunity. And you know,
if I were to talk to this person, I genuinely
wish the person the best, really really do. I don't
harbor any anger towards the person because I tried so
(28:06):
hard to get this person to self reflect and self correct. Unfortunately,
the defense mechanism of narcissism interprets self reflection as self
blame and shame, and so I couldn't get behind the
narcissistic wall as much as I wanted to, and I tried.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And then doctor Judy, we have a call.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Oh wonderful, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yes a friend substance abuse.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yes, Hello, thank you so much for calling in.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Oh hi, doctor Judy. Firstly, thank you so much for
all the wisdom you put out in the world and
share my question. Thank you, You're welcome. My question is,
if you have a toxic friend who perhaps some of
their toxicity comes from a substance abuse issue, how can
that be approached the kindness and love even though one
(29:04):
may feel the friendship has run its course or do
they not? Do you mean?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Because I can totally identify it with that, and that
was part of the problem. Okay, So first of all,
I want you to know that if somebody is using
a substance and abusing a substance, and sometimes it's hard
to know the difference, but when somebody is using it
every single day, I call that abuse. Okay, sorry, I do.
(29:34):
If a person can't even sit down at the on
your couch without having a drink first, that's a problem.
And so what what you're up against in that case
is a lot of hopelessness because they're filling their hole
(29:55):
in the soul, okay, with their sing of their emotion.
And whenever you numb your emotions, you don't feel your emotions.
And when you don't feel your emotions, you don't grow.
So you know, it's just a given that they don't
like how they feel. Let's drink to that. They don't
(30:15):
like the way, let's drink to that. They don't like this,
they don't like that. Okay, let's just drink to that.
And there's no growth with people who numb themselves. They're
just simply And that was part of my reasoning for this.
This just never going to be growth. So we go
(30:37):
back to your question that what do you? What do
you do in the.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
You when you have let's say you have a friendship
that's come to a terminal point because as you've been discussing,
perhaps my own awareness has grown or or how I
see things that maybe they are always trauma dumping and
I realized that they also have an alcohol abuse issue.
(31:02):
Is there any value in saying to them? And is
there a loving way to say you're an alcoholic or
I wish you could get some help? Or is that what?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
What do you?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
What do you? What's your advice?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Well, yeah, I've tried that and uh doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yes, it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
It's valid because you you know, you can't wish for somebody.
I wish for my friend to be sober, and I
wish for my friend to be a deep soul, and
I wish for my friend to be on a growth path.
And I wish for my friend to have a big, loving, generous,
open heart. But what's wrong with my statements?
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I guess they're all based on something I want.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yes, does my friend wish to be sober? No? Does
my friend wish to drop the narcissistic defenses no to threatening.
Does my friend wish for the things that I wish
for my friend? Absolutely not? Okay?
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Do you think it's an enlightened to tell a friend
that you wish these things for them as a way
of saying goodbye? Or is it almost seemed like in
itself could be considered abusive on their side?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
You mean to tell me maybe if I would have.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Mm hm Yes, like to say I feel like, you know,
to say something kind, but say I hope that I
hope that you can find someone to talk to and
maybe try out. I know what you can just imagine who.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
You know. Sometimes words do not hit, So I'd like
to say that in my heart to this person, it's
just that I know that they're blocked. Let's say I like,
I like talk talking about energy and sending them telepathic
(33:01):
messages if you will, I know that sounds okay, But
you know, if I were to send a message, I
would say, you know, I hope you heal. I hope
you know that that that I wish for you, that
you would grow and open your heart to love and
open your heart to self growth. It's just that I
(33:26):
can't say those words because they are going to be
deflected and defended against. Okay, you see.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yes, yes, I do see. So in a way it
can take the sensation of feeling guilty because I'm wishing
or praying or communicating in dreams to help them and
maybe they'll pick it up.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Maybe they will pick it up, but you know, their
injuries are such that it's too threatening. You know, Like,
as long as I played along with the game, everything
was okay. But then when I busted the game, and
I did, I busted the game several times. There were
several times where my saying goodbye was not so nice.
(34:10):
I tried, and it wasn't nice because right in the storm,
they're doing something so obnoxiously narcissistic that I couldn't stand
it anymore. And then they would start say backpedaling, and
so I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. You know, I'll
(34:30):
do it better or yeah, you're right, I want to
take responsibility. But you know, people might say those words,
but if there's no change to those words, then they're
just words. They're just words of appeasement so that they
can take the ride for a longer journey with you.
(34:52):
And I'm so sorry, but I'm running out of fuel
for that.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I'll put thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You're so welcome, Thank you so much for calling in.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Oh, thank you, doctor Judy. Take care, take care.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, this is something that I think everybody faces. What
do you do about that? Because not every friendship is
going to be super nourishing, you know, not every friendship
is going to be like, you know, like a organic
chock full of vitamins and minerals and love and light
(35:32):
and so on. I recognize that. And then there's the
thought of, well, if I'm gonna put such harsh boundaries
on people, then you know, I won't have anybody in
my life, and that's not so cool either. And sometimes
I just have to sort of say to myself, well,
(35:53):
this person I can be with because I've nourished in
this way and that way. It's not perfect, but you
know they're not you know, they're also adding light to
my life. As long as somebody adds light to my light,
(36:15):
I can be with that. I can be with that.
Any other questions in the chat room, anybody else want
to talk about the draining effects of a toxic friend
and why it's important to release.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
There's a question, and it kind of leads to what
he was saying. It says, after cutting ties with a
draining friend, how do you heal and open up or
open to new healthier relationships? And it's kind of like
we've been talking about, but maybe that needs to be repeated.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, And so I think the first thing is just
to appreciate and congratulate yourself for choose yourself. Okay, that's
really important, instead of kicking yourself in the button saying, oh,
I'm such a horrible person for ending this because they
weren't that bad, you know, they weren't beating me or
(37:12):
anything like that. Just to congratulate yourself for for tuning
into your own intuitive needs and realizing that this was
not healthy for you. So that's the first thing. Second
thing is to appreciate the space that you now have,
(37:34):
which may be a little bit scary, okay, because now
your whole life calendar is off. Okay, you no longer
have your calendar filled with events with this person, and
now you're forced to grow even more. How about that?
(37:55):
So now I'm forced to fill that with better things.
Sometimes it'll be as simple as getting more sleep, or
hanging out with my dogs more, or getting more involved
in my projects, or signing up for more classes, or
attempting to meet people who are more of my growth
(38:21):
partner requirements. So then that that comes next is feeling
the emptiness. So sometimes let me let me mind map it,
and I think you'll understand it better. So remember panel
three is your negative core beliefs that led you to
pick these people. Core beliefs like I'm not enough, I'll
(38:43):
never be enough, I'm not good enough, I don't deserve Okay,
So then you go pick these people and you try
to hold the bond together, but it doesn't work because
you're now in panel four chaos okay, which is uh,
you know, you're denying the care chaos. So you try
to stick the bond together. Oh you was so nice
(39:04):
or she was so sweet to me. Oh this person
they did nice things for me. So you try to
glue the bond together, but it lacks the backbone, Okay,
it lacks their mental health and also your own. And
then you go into panel number five, which are those
(39:24):
defense mechanisms, whether they are you know, the person was
using alcohol, or your own defense mechanisms, which might sound like, yeah,
but the person wasn't that bad, or you know, I
shouldn't do that to the person because it's going to
hurt them, or it's going to disrupt their life, or
(39:45):
people outside that have been part of this community that
you've created aren't going to be happy to lose their buddy,
or you know, like these these lives tied again, and
so now you know their family and they know yours,
and so the chaos is, you know, it's big. It's
(40:07):
like releasing a toxic bomb. There's going to be fallout
material and then there's going to be defense around it.
And at the end you've got to decide, you know,
do you want to stay with your excuses and shore
up this relationship that hasn't served you and then just
(40:28):
get more and more angry. So if those bubbles represent
your boiling feelings, you know, they're just getting bigger and
bigger and bigger, and your resentment towards the person is growing.
But not only that, your resentment towards yourself is growing
because you start hating yourself for being inauthentic. You start
(40:51):
hating yourself for not living your truth. And then panel
six finally comes or not for panel six breakdown, you
have to have some kind of a breakdown to break through.
So maybe the breakdown is I just don't feel well anymore,
or I just can't tolerate the level of narcissistic behavior,
(41:16):
or that is just so offensive, or that is just
so out of line and not right with my value system,
and then you've got to do something about that. The
other thing that you can do is just keep holding
it in and implode and get in fights with the person,
(41:37):
which was starting to happen. I was starting to fight
with the person. I think I fought with this person
all along, but the fights were getting more around the behavior,
like I can't believe you did that. I can't believe
you did that, and you know, and this indignancy grew
inside of me to the point where I started talking
(42:01):
to people. I started talking to friends and other professionals,
and you know, they started mirroring back, like, well, some
people say said, well, just spend less time with the person.
That was a defense mechanism. Okay, I'll just spend less time,
but actually it wasn't that. Anytime with this person was
(42:26):
not nourishing. Not less time, but anytime. Like if somebody said, oh,
we could just pop this person back into your life,
I would just say no, I'll just go through my
whatever level of grief for you know, feelings that I
(42:49):
have to process. But I'm good with closing my boundaries
to this and teaching myself that this cannot happen in
the future because I'm laying down a prototype for myself
that I'm saying that this is the end of the
this is the end game. I'm not letting people like
(43:11):
this into my life if they don't nourish me, if
I don't nourish them, if it's not what I call
a synergistic relationship. And I'll get to that next, which
is panel number seven. This is the only kind of
relationship I want. Whether it's a friendship or a romantic
relationship or a business partnership, all I want is a
(43:35):
synergistic relationship based on authenticity and truth and goodwill and
light because one plus one when we play that better
game of life, as I like to say in my book,
be the cause of better outcomes for your life. The
only way that happens is when you create synergistic relationship.
(44:00):
And if you're feeling very alone because you've dropped so
many people, then maybe you need to recalibrate and rebalance.
Then maybe you have to tear your own system down
and beset your boundaries and make a new contract with yourself.
So that's what I've done, is I've contracted with myself
(44:20):
not to allow people like that into my life, so
I don't have to drag it out and justify and
fake it, because you know, the main thing that really
rupts me the wrong way is to fake something that
is not really authentic and life giving for me. Is
(44:45):
that a call?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
No call? But I do have another question if you
want to take.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
It, please please.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
It says, why do we keep going back to friends
who drain us emotionally even when you know they're not
good for us?
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Because we're doing with the freud because of everything that
I've talked about your childhood injuries that you're used to
it it's familial and familiar. You guys should get my
video Healing from Narcissistic Abuse. Seriously, you should get that one.
It'll explain it in a compact manner. But yeah, you've
(45:25):
been blueprinted to tolerate that stuff, low level stuff, and
then your core belief is I can't do any better
than that. I don't deserve better. Where am I going
to find different people? That's been my challenge is finding
people of the caliber that I want to relate to.
It's very, very difficult. It's not an easy thing. And
(45:48):
if you're having an easy time, I'd love to hear
from you, because I want to know where you're finding
all these wonderful people. But you know, remember, we're not
in the best shape on our planet. I mean, just
look at the disconnection from ourselves, the cell phone usage,
the drug usage, the porn usage, the lack of family unity,
(46:11):
the clash within our own families, and then that extends
to our global situation, which is the dissolving of the
human race, which I want to start really digging into
and addressing. And so you know that brings me to
healing global disconnect. Why are we a bunch of isms?
(46:34):
And what happened to us? And why do we kill
each other? And why do we lack empathy? And why
do we live such divisional lives, and why can't we
be synergistic with others? And who can we be synergistic with?
And when is the time to let communities go or
(46:54):
interacting with people that are not going to bring us light.
You know, it's the same thing macro micro, That's what
the mind map is. It's a micro model, but it's
also a macro model that speaks to the Join the
Human Race quote, which goes something like, we have risen
(47:17):
to tremendous heights as a human race, and yet we're
fractured in terms of our race, religion, culture, politics, everything. Okay,
and we have done remarkable things as human beings. We
have cure disease, We've landed on the moon, We've done
(47:38):
remarkably beautiful things, great art, literature, music. So you know,
the last challenge which I'd like to challenge myself and
you with, is how do we come together as a
united humanity when we are so different in our isms
(47:59):
political coalisms, and racialisms and cultural isms and sexual orientation
isms and any kind of isms like foundationally, how do
we treat ourselves as humane? Because that's the point of
Join the Human Race. Healing global disconnect is creating a
(48:23):
humane society that's synergistic, and that's that's my that's what
I see as my purpose on the planet, you know.
And so part of that is getting rid of people
that are toxic and joining with the forces that are
synergistic and building a Panel eight. If you look at
(48:45):
my mind map, Panel eight is about healing. It's about
climbing the ladder of evolution, and those little people on
the ladder are your growth partners. They're helping you, You're
helping them, and you're climbing the ladder to evolve. And
as a result, you could see that the water on
(49:07):
the planet is blue and turqu wise, and the planet
looks healthy, and the DNA that we're building together is strong,
and it is in authenticity, and it is the system
gone right. And we need all of that which I
(49:27):
talked about to create united humanity, which is my panel
number nine, where we are loving, kind, respectful, And those
are those dolphins which represent the wisdom masters my body, soul,
and our respect for not only the humans, but the
animals and the entire entire ecosystem of our planet. So
(49:54):
that's what I mean by healing global disconnect and healing
human disconnect, because can heal globally until you've healed individually.
So you know, there's a part of me that thinks
that we need more work to heal individually before moving
on to global healing. It's just that, you know, time
(50:15):
is running short, and we've got to reach critical mass
where people are sick and tired of the hate. They're
sick and tired of the divisional lines. And that doesn't
mean that we've got to join hands with everybody on
the planet, because some people are not principled, they're not loving,
(50:37):
they're not kind, So those are the toxic people to
put boundaries on. We cannot create a humane race with
inhumane people. So those are my parting words. Any comments,
any questions.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
No more comments, and no more questions. But that was
a great show.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Yeah, thank you very much. I really appreciate your call
in and the questions, and Tony for bringing up your
own examples. Thank you and I'll see you next time.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Goodbye, us
Speaker 1 (51:38):
PAKS.
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