Human Side of Fraud: Empathy, Education, & Evolution

People used to think fraud was something that happened in the shadows, rare, distant, and mostly affecting big companies. But after talking to PJ Rohall, it’s clear that fraud is evolving fast, and it’s showing up in places most of us don’t even think to look.

In this episode, I sit down with PJ Rohall, Head of Fraud Strategy and Education at SEON and co-founder of About Fraud. PJ’s work is all about staying ahead of scammers and helping businesses and individuals understand how fraud actually works. From synthetic identities and AI-powered scams to account takeovers and refund fraud, he breaks it all down in a way that’s both eye-opening and surprisingly accessible.

We talk about how fraudsters think, what makes people vulnerable, and why collaboration is one of the best defenses we have. PJ shares practical tips, real-world examples, and some of the patterns he’s seeing that everyone should be aware of. Whether you run a business or just want to better protect yourself online, this conversation might change the way you think about trust, technology, and the digital world we live in.

Show Notes:

• [00:52] PJ Rohal is a co-founder of About Fraud and Fraud Fight Club, which is our in conference, in-person experience. He started that back in 2017, but his fraud prevention journey started back in 2011.
• [02:45] He began studying finance and business. He had some mental health issues and was open to trying something different when he saw a job for a fraud analyst.
• [06:22] His experience transferred really well into the entrepreneurial journey.
• [11:13] It's in the best interest of everyone to collaborate and share tips and tricks when trying to prevent fraud.
• [13:05] Everybody is open or vulnerable to being a victim of a scam. There shouldn't be a stigma around it.
• [14:51] It's powerful to see even tech savvy people being victims of scams.
• [17:20] How a contextually relevant scam could actually get you.
• [21:16] It's PJ's dream to get outside of his bubble and help educate the community the best he can.
• [23:43] Two-factor authentication codes have changed, because they give warnings and instructions for the consumer now.
• [28:45] People with platforms could get the word out about the risk of scams.
• [34:30] Getting fighting scams to the front and center is a challenge.
• [36:57] Handling calls from people who've lost large amounts of money in a scam. Having a psychologist or people who understand human behavior would really help with this journey.
• [40:39] Banks and financial institutions are starting to think differently about handling these issues.
• [41:05] There's also a lot of technology on the market that's designed for scams.

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