September 19, 2024 • 36 mins
In this episode, Sami sits down with her longtime friend Jen Anderson to have an open and honest conversation about parenting children with unique needs. As both moms to neurodivergent kids, Sami and Jen dive deep into the challenges and joys of advocating for your child, finding the right support systems, and empowering them to embrace their differences. Whether you’re navigating an IEP, 504 plan, or simply trying to understand your child’s experience, this episode is packed with practical wisdom and heartfelt insights.
In this episode we discuss
- Jen’s background as a homeschooling, micro-baking, yoga-teaching mom
- The importance of letting your child lead the way in their own story
- How to advocate for your child’s needs within the school system
- The power of language and creating a safe space for emotional expression
- Strategies for balancing independence and family time for neurodivergent kids
Want to skip ahead?
[4:36] As a parent, your job isn’t to fix everything, it’s to listen, be there, and show up for them.
[0:00] Jen emphasizes the importance of “letting your child lead” and “teaching them to advocate for themselves.”
[16:41] Jen shares her approach to using empowering language around neurodivergence, rather than “labels” that can be limiting.
[26:00] Jen discusses the challenge of balancing her daughter’s need for independence and family time, and how they navigate that with a detailed schedule.
[33:44] Jen encourages parents to “educate themselves” and connect with the perspectives of neurodivergent adults to better understand their child’s experience.
Resources
Be sure to connect with Jen Anderson at JenAnderson.studio@gmail.com if you have any questions or need support on your parenting journey.
Grab more resources at https://easystylewithsami.com
Follow us on Facebook at https://facebook.com/ssmulhern
Follow us on Instagram at https://instagram.com/ssmulhern
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (00:00):
Welcome to Easy style with Sami. I'm your
(00:02):
host. Sami Bedell-Mulhern, eachepisode, I invite a friend,
family member, colleague or justsomeone I've met on this journey
called life, to come and sharetheir personal style and
approach to business, parenting,life and everything in between.
You'll hear motivational andinspirational stories that will
help you refine and build yourown personal style. Remember,
(00:25):
style is easy when it comes fromwithin.
Hey, friends, we are back withanother episode of easy style
with Sami and my guest today isJen. I understand Jan or Jan?
Did I say Jan? Jen,
Jen Anderson (00:38):
okay, it happens,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (00:42):
been too fast. Well, Jen, thanks for
being here today. This has beena long time coming. Yeah,
Jen Anderson (00:47):
for sure, happy to be here. So,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (00:50):
yeah. So Jen and I know each other all
the way back High School. Wewent to high school together. I
think I love that we've kind ofhad so many different versions
of our connection from likeworking together in a nonprofit
and like connecting as moms andkind of kiddos growing up, but I
think some of my most favoriteconversations that we've had
have been around like what we'regoing to talk about today with
(01:12):
regards to, how do we help ourkids be the best versions of
themselves, while alsorespecting the uniqueness that
they have with regards to, Imean, anything, right? Talents,
mental health, care, you know,ADHD, all, like all the things
that you know that we're goingto get into today, but it's just
(01:34):
been so great having somebodyelse that you can go to to kind
of talk to about, how do we dealwith the school and how do we do
that? So those have been some ofmy most favorite conversation.
Favorite conversations, but Ijust would love if you would
kind of introduce yourself andkind of look know a little bit
about who you are.
Jen Anderson (01:50):
Yeah, sure. So like Sami said, we've known each
other forever and have workedtogether in the past in the arts
nonprofit field, and I'm stillan artist, currently
homeschooling one of mychildren, a micro Baker,
gardener, lots of things, yogateacher, so I still dabble a bit
(02:12):
in all of the things that I'vedone over the years, as far as
health and wellness, but rightNow, focusing on homeschooling
our youngest child for the restof the school year, and moving
towards summer pretty quicklyhere, so just juggling kids
schedules, and I would saythat's job number one.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (02:33):
Yep. Wait, but quick question, what is
micro baking? Okay,
Jen Anderson (02:37):
so in the state of Minnesota, you can get what's
called a cottage license, soyou're considered like a micro
Baker, cottage Baker out of yourhome. So I make scones, and my
business is called flora andflower, and I have a cut flower
garden. So this summer, I'll beselling bouquets from my garden
when I have them available. Andthen I make baked goods that
(02:59):
have, like, edible flowerspressed into them and kind of
flower themed, but also just,like a basic cinnamon scone. So
it's just a fun thing I juststarted. I just really enjoy
I've been baking my scones foryears and years, and everybody
always says you should sellthese. They're so good, and I've
perfected the recipe over theyear. And so I just decided to
(03:22):
go ahead and do it for fun. So,oh, that's amazing. And do your
girls love bake with thekitchen? Yes, they do. I will
say it's less stressful to justdo it myself, particularly for
this, yeah, especially myyoungest Stella, just absolutely
loves to bake, so we do a lot ofthat.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (03:44):
I love that. Okay, well, let's get into
the topic at hand, because Iknow you and I could just talk
about all sorts of things allday long. But one of the things
that I think is so hard inparenting is kind of the ad. How
do we advocate for our kids inschool? And I think it's so much
(04:05):
different than when we went toschool, for sure. And I think a
lot of things that are kind ofout there, and it totally
depends on where kids go toschool, but kind of when, for
you were you kind of, did youkind of realize, you know what,
I can't just be a passive parentand just kind of let things
happen. Have to kind of step inand really force conversations
(04:28):
and have conversations with theschools to kind of figure out
what it is that I let my kidfirst accept how to do that.
Jen Anderson (04:36):
Yeah. So that goes back quite a ways, and before I
begin, I just want to say thatbefore doing this today, I did
have a discussion with both ofmy girls. So nothing I speak
about here today is anythingthey're not okay with me talking
about. I think it's reallyimportant, particularly for
sensitive and neurodivergentkids, to give them as much
(04:58):
agency and autonomy as possible.And so we kind of have a role in
our house, like nothing aboutthem, without them. And you may
have heard that in theneurodivergent like, it's really
important that I'm not tellingtheir story. I'm telling my
perspective as their mom, buttheir story is their own. So
just for everyone to know, like,that's the number one way to
(05:19):
advocate for my kids is lettingthem speak their own truth and
tell their own story. I'm theparent, so I'm guiding some of
that story at this point, butit's important for them to have
that ownership. So in regards toknowing when I needed to step in
a little bit more in order toaddress that, I'll speak to a
(05:40):
little bit like where my girlsare in the neurodivergent realm.
Without getting too specific,both of my girls are
neurodivergent, and we so we'refamiliar with a lot of things,
from ADHD to autism spectrumanxiety, which I also consider a
(06:00):
form of neurodivergence and justa lot of different things within
that realm. But for my girls,they really float in that space
where they're not quite fittingin as far as school goes with
the standards of being disabled,but they're also not quite
typical, and I think a lot ofthose kids are kind of lost in
(06:24):
the system because they don'tknow where they quite fit in.
And as far as on paper for theschool, there is no place they
really fit in. They're kind oflost in the just regular
classroom, but also not quitegetting what they need in, like
sped services always so that,for me, was our experience, and
(06:47):
that's where I had to step in asa parent and really advocate for
my girls, because a lot of theirchallenges are hidden. And you
know, often teachers will say,Well, you know, she's one of my
best students. She's reallyquiet. She never disrupts the
class. She, you know, does whatshe's supposed to do. And like,
Yeah, that's true. Um, a lot ofthese kids are really quiet and
(07:09):
just kind of sliding by, but notgetting what they need either.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (07:13):
Um, I think especially with with emails,
especially with girls,absolutely, you heard the same
thing, yeah, the same thingabout our daughter and but
internally, she was coming homeand like, melting on the floor,
and, like, losing a thingbecause, like, she had to work
so hard all day long just to,like, try to fit, like you're
(07:34):
like, what you're saying fit inwith what she thinks she's
supposed to be exactly.
Jen Anderson (07:39):
And that's called masking, and that's a huge thing
for neurodivergent girls inparticular, only because it's
more difficult for girls, Ithink, only because there's so
much more social structure andexpectation around girls
behavior, as far as being niceand, you know, being respectful,
like one of the number onethings that gets attached to
(08:01):
kind of a label to girls on thespectrum or girls with other
neurodivergent qualities, isrude. You know, she's rude
either she's not speaking whenspoken to, or maybe speaking
without a filter, like beingvery black and white, very
direct. And so it's like they'reeither the big girls and very
(08:21):
quiet, or they're rude, andthere's no in between for them,
and so that's really difficult,especially in the classroom
setting,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (08:31):
yeah, well, and I feel like to your point,
also, the school system haslike, two ways that they deal
with kids, right? It's the IEPor it's the 504 and there's like
nothing really also in betweenthat. And they both come with
such rigorous, well, 504doesn't, but the IEP comes with
such rigorous, yes, structure toit. And so again, varying
(08:54):
depending on the school districtyou're in, can be a very
different experience. Andsometimes you have to push
harder and sometimes you don't,but, right? Yeah, anything a
hard, hard spot,
Jen Anderson (09:06):
Right, exactly. And I found I even had to really
advocate and educate withinthose parameters. For our oldest
for a time, she did have an IEP.And when you have an IEP for
your child, you go to an IEPreview to put it in place. And
you review, you know whatthey've written for goals, and
what I found from my oldest whenshe had one of those, is that
(09:29):
the goals were really based onhow others perceived her, rather
than actually being supportiveof her and her needs. So it was
more so working with the goal oftrying to make her appear more
typical and not have needs inthe classroom setting, rather
(09:50):
than just accommodating herneeds, right like and they were
accommodating her needs in themeantime, but the goal written
on paper was always like. Veryableist language, and very much
trying to just make her appeartypical in order to pass out of
the IEP system. And that was areal problem for me, just the
(10:13):
language of it and the way itwas regarded. And so that's
really where I started toadvocate pretty firmly, even
down to like, what language wasappropriate,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (10:26):
Well. And how do you know? Because I know
when we went through thisprocess, I my daughter, 504, my
son is on an IEP. And when yougo through this process the
first time, you don't reallyeven know what you can and can't
ask for, or what services youknow they're required to offer
you. Or like, like, it wasalways interesting to me when we
(10:48):
moved from Oregon to Minnesota,like, the difference in the
language in our school district,the services that they were
willing to offer that I wouldhave never asked for because I
just didn't know. So how do youlike, how did you educate
yourself to even be able to say,Okay, well, you should be doing
these things. These things aresomething that, you know, I need
to message and craft for mydaughter to get her the support.
(11:10):
Like, where did that formationcome from? For you?
Jen Anderson (11:13):
I really just dove in and, you know, this is just
kind of my personality too, tolike, really dive into something
and self educate as much aspossible. So I did a lot of
reading. I attended conferences,conferences for Temple Grand in
spoke, who's well known in theautism community, and reading a
lot in particular about the waygirls present differently on the
(11:38):
spectrum and with ADHD, and justeducating myself on as best as I
could what their perspective, mydaughter's perspective, of their
experiences, might be like. Sothat meant listening to people
who are actually autistic oractually have ADHD and have
anxiety, and listening to thosevoices rather than just like the
(12:00):
clinical stereotypical versionsof their diagnosis.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (12:08):
Yeah, and then through all that, is that
kind of where you also learn,like you mentioned, like the
ableist language and the way tolook at the goals that they're
giving you, is this reallyhelping to support a child, or
is this just to make it easierfor the school, right? How have
you like, how do you inside yourhouse, or how do you work with
(12:29):
your girls on kind of here's howpeople talk about you, right? Or
so any you like, as in anyperson that's neurotypical, but
here's how we talk about it inthe house, like, how do you kind
of have those conversations withthem so that they feel
comfortable, or that they cankind of self advocate for
(12:50):
themselves as well?
Jen Anderson (12:52):
Yeah, for sure. So I think language is super
important with any child. Whenwe're raising our children as a
parent, a lot of us have learnedand work with. You know, kids
have big emotions a lot of thetime as they're developing and,
oh, I know, as a parent,something I learned very quickly
is the more language I couldgive my children to, um, express
(13:14):
what they're feeling, the morelanguage I could give them
around emotions, the better theycould understand what they were
feeling, articulate their needs.And I think it's the same with
neurodiversity andneurodivergent brains. The more
language you can give them todescribe the way their brain
works, the better they'll beable to understand and advocate
(13:36):
for themselves. And so for me,it's an idea of, like, I know a
lot of people are afraid to taketheir child in to get diagnosed
or assessed, because they'reafraid of the label. And when
they're in that they'rereferring to, like, the word
autism spectrum or ADHD, likethey're afraid of their child
(13:56):
being labeled with something.And in our home, we just really
flip that script, like it to us,those words are not labels.
That's language, and it'slanguage to describe the unique
way your brain works. To me,labels, all of those things
outside of this safe space thatpeople attach so like we talked
(14:18):
about before, like you're reallyrude, or, you know, you're too
loud or you're too quiet, or allof those things. To me, those
are the labels. And so we'vereally raised with that mindset,
like these words don't defineall of who you are. They're just
language to help describe anaspect of how you operate and
(14:39):
how your brain works
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (14:41):
Well. And I think too that what's for me,
this is my own personal opinion,that as things are shifting, I
don't really know a kid thatruns with that, that also have
some form of ADHD. I don't knowany kids right now, especially
coming out of. Covid and all ofthe shifts that aren't dealing
(15:01):
with some level of anxiety orsome level of mental health
concerns. I mean, my daughterwill sit at lunch and they'll
talk about their like they allhave therapists. It's it's so
much more common and normal. NowI like the term neurodivergent,
and now I'm missing the orneurotypical and neurodivergent
(15:24):
and ADHD, and, you know, autismspectrum, I feel like just kind
of piggyback of what you'resaying, like, like everybody now
has a label, so it's not it isjust understanding, like, this
is brain works, and I'm gonnajust learn like the school. I
think a lot of schools arecoming around to like, this is
(15:45):
just a different learning style.It's not necessarily a
completely, it's at a disease oranything, right? You know, my
kid goes to, they have an ADHDLearning Lab at his school, and
it's after school, and allthese, you know, kid who has
ADHD gets to come and they getto work in an environment where
they've got payrolls and peoplethere to help them with their
(16:07):
homework in ways that they needto process it. So I think
there's lots of things that arehappening that we as adults just
need to let go of our ownwhatever with it, because the
kids don't care, right?
Jen Anderson (16:19):
Exactly? And I think for adults, that's our
conditioning, right? Like,that's how we've learned, like,
everybody needs to be the same,like and standards for school,
like everybody has to meet acertain standard. You all need
to learn the same things and inthe same way. And, you know,
inclusion for these kids issuper important in the
classroom, right? So it doesn'twork to just remove these kids
(16:41):
from the classroom and havethem, you know, be doing their
own thing separately, because Ithink it's so important, like
you're saying. Now, I know veryfew people who I wouldn't place
on that neuro divergentspectrum, right? And once you
have kids and you who are neurodivergent, and you learn about
it, you start looking around youand even at yourself and saying,
(17:04):
Oh, wow, I actually know a lotof people who are
neurodivergent, and they justdon't know it themselves, right?
And that was a big part of itfor me too, is and both my
husband and I as parents to seesome aspects of our girls and
the way they function kind ofbeing a mirror for ourselves and
realizing some things aboutourselves and who we were as
(17:26):
children that were like, Huh,okay, yeah, this makes a lot of
sense, right? And so, like yousaid, this is a huge part of the
population, I think, even moreso than we know now, even as
common as it is now. And so tostart recognizing these words,
again, just as language thatdescribe the way somebody
operates, and knowing, too, thatevery kid with ADHD isn't a
(17:48):
monolith, right? Like, I thinkthere's like seven different
types of ADHD that we know aboutright now. So some of those are
the really quiet kids. They'renot the stereotypical
hyperactive, right? Some kidsare the more, like outgoing,
like big personalities, and somekids are both. You know, there's
a combined ADHD where they haveboth of those aspects. So, like
(18:12):
you said, just learning that,Hey, kids in general, each learn
and operate uniquely.
So what we're doing as parentsand as educators is just kind of
building a map for each of thosekids, and it's unique to each of
them. Of they're going to getwhere they want to go in life.
And certainly, there are kids onthe spectrum that have comorbids
(18:34):
that create more disability forthem, but I think every kid on
the spectrum has moments ofdisability, right? Every kind
with ADHD has moments ofdisability, and I think where we
go amiss in school and asparents is to just assume
they're okay all the time andnot checking in with them on
(18:55):
their experience of life andwhat they're feeling trying to
navigate a world that's reallybuilt for neurotypical people
and neurotypical learners. Youknow, we're a miss when they're
quiet, to not check in and say,Hey, how are you really doing?
How are you feeling about this?Because a child only knows
(19:15):
themselves, and they know thatis their normal, right and and
yet, when we don't give kidsthis language to identify with
how their brain maybe worksdifferently, our kids kind of
internalize that, and they feeldifferent. So whether or not you
(19:35):
take them to get the actualdiagnosis, I know parents are so
afraid of their child beingothered, a child can other
themselves very easily, justtheir own awareness of like, you
know, something just feels off.Like, I kind of feel like an
alien here in this environment,and I don't know why. So there
must be something wrong with me.And I think when we give them
(19:57):
appropriate language to say,hey. You. Nothing's wrong with
you. You just have a brain thatoperates differently, and that's
okay. And let's figure out whatis your personal math like? What
is your way forward? What how doyou learn? How do you engage
with people? How do yousocialize? And let's talk about
that and empower you as anindividual, rather than you
(20:20):
know, and giving you powerfullanguage about how you operate,
so that you can feel okay aboutgoing out into the world and
knowing, hey, some people mighttry to other you, but at least
that's external, and you canwalk away from that when it
comes from inside of you, andit's all that is really tough to
navigate for a child.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (20:39):
Yeah. So good. I know one of the
exercises that my daughtertherapist had her work through
when it comes to like, because,like you mentioned, we only know
what we know. We don't know ourexperience. Like, always know
how to explain our experience.So when she was trying to
explain her feelings, because alot of times we also like, Well,
are you mad or are you, both,like, frustrated, like, will
(21:02):
given terms, but they don'tnecessarily know how that
manifests for them. So she wouldtell her to come up with her own
word, her emotion. So, like, thekid that was really frustrating
to her, they came up, it's likesilly words, it would be she
might say, like the grout, like,that's how she talked about that
feeling. So, like, they attachit. So, like, you can use these
(21:24):
things that they can kind of,they don't have to identify it
with a word. They can identifyit with something else that
they've experienced, and thencan start to work through that
conversation and help themidentify, Okay, well, what
you're we're saying their peoplewould typically use mad or sad
or, you know, just to kind ofhelp them, guide them through,
figuring out what that emotionreally is without also without
(21:48):
us self imposing. Well, ifyou're acting like this, then
must feel this. That's not alsothe case,
Jen Anderson (21:55):
Right? Exactly like that's a really important
lesson that we learned asparents too with our girls, like
behavior is not always anindication of actual feeling.
Right. Like behavior is a copingmechanism for what you're
feeling. It may not match theactual feeling. Like, for
instance, with kids who haveanxiety that often comes out as
anger and like we were talkingabout, when they mask all day at
(22:17):
school and kind of holdeverything in when they come
home to their safe space,there's a huge explosion, like,
we experienced a lot of that,and that's like the after school
let down. You know, we're like,I'm home, I'm safe, I'm going to
let it all out. Everything Iheld in today is going to come
out at home. That's reallytypical of these kiddos. And you
(22:37):
know, when you're creating thatsafe space at home, which
hopefully, as a parent, you arethat's going to happen, and
you're going to have some ofthat, and so knowing like, hey,
this behavior seems angry orseems really volatile or seems,
you know, really frustrated, butmaybe it's like hurt or sadness
or just straight up fusion, youknow, often with my girls, I
(22:58):
know they were just confusedabout things that happened at
school, whether it be socialthings or, you know, an activity
they did at school that was justconfusing for them, and that
just created that internalfrustration that then comes out
as anger at home. So there canbe lots of different triggers,
and the behavior doesn't alwaysmatch what's actually going on.
So as a parent learning to kindof like, dig and help your child
(23:20):
dig to that root cause. Because,you know, a lot of kids on the
spectrum, too, do have troubleidentifying what they're
feeling. And yeah, I think forthem, it's like very somatic,
like they feel it in their body.It feels like a very like, real
sense in their body, but theydon't know how to name it. So
helping your child begin to namethings. You know, that was
(23:42):
definitely a tool that we'veused at home to create that safe
space of like, hey, whateveryou're feeling or expressing
here is okay, and you're notgoing to be punished for coming
home from school and letting itall out. Like, I'm glad you feel
safe with me to do that. Butlet's talk about when they're
calm, where did it come from,and what can we do about it?
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (24:04):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that's
been hard for us to navigate, soI would love your thoughts on
this is, how do we kids continueto grow and we're learning, and
we, you know, we have reallygood conversation with kids and
whatnot. There comes a pointwhere you start to question,
like, okay, are they now usingthis as a crutch? So for
example, my daughter has a bigattack. Sometimes it takes her
(24:28):
two days to, like, really getback to normal, right? And for
for that day or two later,sometimes she can sequence re
overload, like, going to school.Is it really hard? So we've
really struggled with that. Howdo we do we support her in what
she needs without turning itinto a crutch that maybe at some
(24:51):
point she can Well, I'm havinganxiety, anxiety moments I can't
avoid this thing that's hard.
Jen Anderson (24:59):
Right? Right? So and like, I'm not an expert by
any means. This is still, yeah,but my oldest is now a teenager,
right? And so, and she feelsvery empowered by her diagnosis.
She's very open about it. Shehas preferred language around
her diagnosis. She has preferredways of self advocating, but
(25:21):
she's an awesome self advocate,and I think just being
comfortable in her house withthe language and talking very
openly, having thoseconversations has really led her
to a place of being able to feelempowered by it. But certainly
there's things like that are youhave to remember, like, whatever
is typical, like for us rightnow, of a typical teenager, it's
(25:43):
just like times 100 for ourneurodivergent kiddos, right? So
she's in that phase of kind ofwanting to, like, retreat to her
room, kind of self isolate, beon her phone a lot, and we're
always trying to find a balanceof, you know how much of this is
about how her brain works? Howmuch is like typical team
(26:06):
behavior? How much do we pushright because we're not wanting
to shame because certainly,school takes a lot of her
energy. She's at a charterschool right now, which is in
our public school district, andso I understand, and we know
school absolutely does take alot of her energy. You know,
that kind of forcedsocialization all day long takes
(26:28):
a lot out of her.
As a neurodivergent kiddo, sheneeds a lot of downtime, a lot
of recuperating. And so the waywe're navigating that right now
is, again, just talking to herabout it, like, Hey, I get it
because of who you are and theway your brain works. You need
extra downtime. It takes youlonger to recover than the
average kiddo from just a weekat school. And you know what?
(26:51):
All kids going through the weekat school are struggling by the
weekend and ready to just chill.We get that. And we get that.
It's more intense for you as aneurodivergent kid, but let's
find our edge here, and that'ssomething we're talking to her a
lot about, finding your edge.Where is that place? Where,
like, you're pushing yourselfjust gently out of your comfort
(27:11):
zone while still honoring whoyou are as a person? So finding
that balance of like, you knowwhat? Friday after school,
Friday evening. Please don'tplan any activities for me, I
need to come home and just vegout for the night, totally get
it right. Like going to give youthat space and allow her to do
that, and then we have to justkind of gently push her, because
(27:33):
over the weekend, we want tohave family time. We want to get
out and do things as a family.And if it were up to her, she
would just stay home, right? Butwe find that when we push her
just a little bit and she willresist, always, that once we get
her out and doing things as afamily, she finds a lot of joy
in that, and she really isenjoying the experience. And
(27:54):
then we just, you know, create,help her learn to create
balance. Like, hey, we're gonnago do this thing as a family.
Also giving her a lot ofinformation really helps,
because of how her brain works.So we're going here, we're going
to do A, B and C. It's going totake us about this amount of
time. And I'll even say to her,I'm going to need you to be
flexible, though, because itcould take up to an hour more
(28:14):
than we expect it to, right? Andthen we make a deal. So once
we've done that when we get backhome, I'm going to give you half
an hour to just veg out on yourphone before we start talking
about what we're going to do forright like so we just kind of
have to talk through more of adetailed schedule and what to
expect and when to expect it, sothat she can feel safe in
(28:37):
pushing herself to that edge,And we create that safe all
those details so she knows,like, Okay, I don't want to, but
I'm going to go do this becauseI know here's the safety net
that's set up for me afterwards.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (28:52):
I think what's beautiful about that is
you're building a couple ofthings. One, you're building
trust with her that she knowsand feels safe like you hear
her, you know what she needs.You are putting her needs as as
a priority to make sure that youknow she gets what she needs.
But also you're also kind ofletting her know that she's
(29:12):
bigger kitty, that, yes, youhave these things that respect
your batteries. You are stillpart of this community that is a
family, and there's anexpectation there as well, and
that we work together as a unit.So I think that's really
beautiful way to kind of framethat.
Jen Anderson (29:30):
Yeah, for sure, and it's easy as a parent to and
we've certainly had thosemoments where we're like, you
spend too much time on yourphone. We're going to shut down
your phone, like, getting intothat, like, threat negotiation,
yeah, and we have to just, like,take a deep breath when we're
feeling that as a parent likethis is wrong. You shouldn't be
tuning out like this. And justremember, okay, part of this is,
(29:52):
she's a teen, and she's tryingto, again, gain that autonomy.
She's self isolating a bitbecause, you know. She just
wants that alone time and sheenjoys time with herself, which
I tell her all the time, like,that's awesome. Like enjoying
time by yourself is like somesomething a lot of people
struggle with. And what a greatskill to have for your life.
(30:13):
Enjoy your own company, yeah.And at same time, I have to,
like, take a breath from that.Like you're on your phone. Too
much to just say, hey, you knowwhat we miss you. Your family is
missing you. You're spending alot of time in your room. And I
just want to check in and makesure, like, is that just because
you need the downtime, or, like,is there anything bothering you
because you also have to worryabout depression and, you know,
(30:34):
right things going on you're nottelling us about at school.
Like, neurodivergent kids aremore likely to be bullied at
school, you know? And sometimesthat's subtle, so you don't
always know. So just a lot ofchecking in, being like, Hey,
are you happy right now being onyour own? And, like, for my
child, she's always like, Yep,I'm really happy. I'm fine.
Like, quit worrying about me. Ijust want to be alone, you know.
(30:56):
Like, leave me alone. I'm like,okay, great, yeah. So we're just
always we're talking about thatedge. We're trying to find that
edge as a family unit and asindividuals, of like, where do
we push ourselves out of thatcomfort zone a little bit?
Because the comfort zone is verycomforting, but long term, that
build up of self isolation canlead to depression and other
(31:18):
things, right? So we're talkingto her about that and being
like, hey, we get that. You'rereally happy about this time by
yourself right now, but justknow, like, it's not really
healthy to just always be aloneor always be in your room by
yourself, or always be on yourphone, right so just educating
about balance and how a healthylife means finding that balance
and that edge.
Unknown (31:41):
Jen, I, as always, like love on all of this and
everything. I always, you know,get new ideas every time I got
with you about our kiddos andall that, and I know that people
are listening or too, we couldprobably talk about for hours
and hours and hours. In fact, wehave before, but um, you know,
if there was maybe, like, youknow, one or two lessons that
(32:01):
you learned, or things that, ifyou wish you would have known at
the beginning, or, just like,even a couple tips that you
might want to leave people withthat they're listening to this
and they're, like, noticingmaybe, maybe we need to be
having a different kind ofconversation for kiddo. Or maybe
there's something we're not, youknow, paying attention to, or
something with the school kindof any last word advice you
would want to share?
Jen Anderson (32:21):
Yeah, yeah, I would say, as a parent to just
know like you are your child'sbest advocate, and doing some
reading, looking intoperspectives of adults who
actually you know can use someof that same language to
describe themselves as yourchild, and looking to those
people for direction is one ofthe best things she could do. I
(32:43):
when our oldest first receivedher diagnosis, I remember being
in a complete panic and justwondering, like, what does this
mean for her, for her life, forher family, like you know, and
just feeling kind of lost andoverwhelmed, and what I if I
could go back to like myself atthat moment, I would just say,
this is going to be okay, andthis is just a learning curve.
(33:04):
It's something you have tolearn. But I would let your
child lead. And I think in everysituation, you know, we've made
a lot of decisions over theyears of like to homeschool at
some points and put them inschool at other points. And each
step of the way those decisionshave been made by letting our
children lead and letting themtell us what their words and
(33:24):
their behavior and theirfeelings, what they need in that
moment, and just rememberingthat your job disappearing isn't
to fix everything, it's just tolisten, to be there, to show up
for them, create that safe spaceand be their best advocate,
while also teaching them toadvocate themselves.
Unknown (33:44):
Yeah, I That's so good. Well, Jen, if people maybe want
to connect with you, if you'reopen to that, or if they will
learn more about your new bids,I don't. You probably don't. Do
you ship your delicious
Jen Anderson (33:57):
I don't ship, no, it's just local for that.
Well, how could people maybereach out if they have a
question, or if they just wantto connect? Or,
Yeah, absolutely, I'm alwayshappy to talk with other parents
or just to offer support. So anyquestions you have, you can
email me at Jen Anderson. It'sAnderson with an SLN
(34:19):
studio@gmail.com and I'll getback to you when I can. But
yeah, I welcome any questions. Ithis is something I love talking
about because it's, you know,very integrated into my life
here as a parent with two kids,they each have their own unique
brains, so it's something I'velearned a lot about over the
past 13 years, and I'm happy toshare that knowledge.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (34:42):
So yeah, I really appreciate it well. Thank
you so much for coming on todayfor openness and honesty. I
think this is a greatconversation for people to
continue to have. So I reallyappreciate you laying it all out
there and being so good.
Jen Anderson (34:58):
Thanks Sami. I really appreciate. Appreciate
it.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (35:01):
I just want to thank Jen again, so much for
being a guest and being so openand honest about her family
situation, not situation, butfamily life, and the girls and
how they're kind of navigatingthrough all the things. School
here is back in session, andwe're feeling it also. And so I
just love having these kinds ofconversations where we really
(35:22):
get to just kind of work throughas moms, as parents, as dads,
kind of what it takes, and thatevery child is unique and has
their own story to tell. So youcan check out the show notes and
additional resources for thisepisode at
easystylewithsami.com/2028sorry, easystylewithsami.com/28
(35:49):
thank you so much for listening.I love sharing these stories and
having conversations with peoplein my world and new people that
I get to meet. If you knowsomebody that would have an
amazing story to tell on theEasy Style with Sami podcast.
Shoot me an email.sami@easystylewithsami.com
that's S, A, M, I, and I hopethat you will subscribe wherever
you listen so you don't miss outon on any episodes. Wow, I'm
(36:12):
having a hard time talkingtoday. Thank you so much for
joining me, and I will see youin the next one. You.
Welcome to Easy style with Sami. I'm your
(00:02):
host. Sami Bedell-Mulhern, eachepisode, I invite a friend,
family member, colleague or justsomeone I've met on this journey
called life, to come and sharetheir personal style and
approach to business, parenting,life and everything in between.
You'll hear motivational andinspirational stories that will
help you refine and build yourown personal style. Remember,
(00:25):
style is easy when it comes fromwithin.
Hey, friends, we are back withanother episode of easy style
with Sami and my guest today isJen. I understand Jan or Jan?
Did I say Jan? Jen,
Jen Anderson (00:38):
okay, it happens,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (00:42):
been too fast. Well, Jen, thanks for
being here today. This has beena long time coming. Yeah,
Jen Anderson (00:47):
for sure, happy to be here. So,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (00:50):
yeah. So Jen and I know each other all
the way back High School. Wewent to high school together. I
think I love that we've kind ofhad so many different versions
of our connection from likeworking together in a nonprofit
and like connecting as moms andkind of kiddos growing up, but I
think some of my most favoriteconversations that we've had
have been around like what we'regoing to talk about today with
(01:12):
regards to, how do we help ourkids be the best versions of
themselves, while alsorespecting the uniqueness that
they have with regards to, Imean, anything, right? Talents,
mental health, care, you know,ADHD, all, like all the things
that you know that we're goingto get into today, but it's just
(01:34):
been so great having somebodyelse that you can go to to kind
of talk to about, how do we dealwith the school and how do we do
that? So those have been some ofmy most favorite conversation.
Favorite conversations, but Ijust would love if you would
kind of introduce yourself andkind of look know a little bit
about who you are.
Jen Anderson (01:50):
Yeah, sure. So like Sami said, we've known each
other forever and have workedtogether in the past in the arts
nonprofit field, and I'm stillan artist, currently
homeschooling one of mychildren, a micro Baker,
gardener, lots of things, yogateacher, so I still dabble a bit
(02:12):
in all of the things that I'vedone over the years, as far as
health and wellness, but rightNow, focusing on homeschooling
our youngest child for the restof the school year, and moving
towards summer pretty quicklyhere, so just juggling kids
schedules, and I would saythat's job number one.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (02:33):
Yep. Wait, but quick question, what is
micro baking? Okay,
Jen Anderson (02:37):
so in the state of Minnesota, you can get what's
called a cottage license, soyou're considered like a micro
Baker, cottage Baker out of yourhome. So I make scones, and my
business is called flora andflower, and I have a cut flower
garden. So this summer, I'll beselling bouquets from my garden
when I have them available. Andthen I make baked goods that
(02:59):
have, like, edible flowerspressed into them and kind of
flower themed, but also just,like a basic cinnamon scone. So
it's just a fun thing I juststarted. I just really enjoy
I've been baking my scones foryears and years, and everybody
always says you should sellthese. They're so good, and I've
perfected the recipe over theyear. And so I just decided to
(03:22):
go ahead and do it for fun. So,oh, that's amazing. And do your
girls love bake with thekitchen? Yes, they do. I will
say it's less stressful to justdo it myself, particularly for
this, yeah, especially myyoungest Stella, just absolutely
loves to bake, so we do a lot ofthat.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (03:44):
I love that. Okay, well, let's get into
the topic at hand, because Iknow you and I could just talk
about all sorts of things allday long. But one of the things
that I think is so hard inparenting is kind of the ad. How
do we advocate for our kids inschool? And I think it's so much
(04:05):
different than when we went toschool, for sure. And I think a
lot of things that are kind ofout there, and it totally
depends on where kids go toschool, but kind of when, for
you were you kind of, did youkind of realize, you know what,
I can't just be a passive parentand just kind of let things
happen. Have to kind of step inand really force conversations
(04:28):
and have conversations with theschools to kind of figure out
what it is that I let my kidfirst accept how to do that.
Jen Anderson (04:36):
Yeah. So that goes back quite a ways, and before I
begin, I just want to say thatbefore doing this today, I did
have a discussion with both ofmy girls. So nothing I speak
about here today is anythingthey're not okay with me talking
about. I think it's reallyimportant, particularly for
sensitive and neurodivergentkids, to give them as much
(04:58):
agency and autonomy as possible.And so we kind of have a role in
our house, like nothing aboutthem, without them. And you may
have heard that in theneurodivergent like, it's really
important that I'm not tellingtheir story. I'm telling my
perspective as their mom, buttheir story is their own. So
just for everyone to know, like,that's the number one way to
(05:19):
advocate for my kids is lettingthem speak their own truth and
tell their own story. I'm theparent, so I'm guiding some of
that story at this point, butit's important for them to have
that ownership. So in regards toknowing when I needed to step in
a little bit more in order toaddress that, I'll speak to a
(05:40):
little bit like where my girlsare in the neurodivergent realm.
Without getting too specific,both of my girls are
neurodivergent, and we so we'refamiliar with a lot of things,
from ADHD to autism spectrumanxiety, which I also consider a
(06:00):
form of neurodivergence and justa lot of different things within
that realm. But for my girls,they really float in that space
where they're not quite fittingin as far as school goes with
the standards of being disabled,but they're also not quite
typical, and I think a lot ofthose kids are kind of lost in
(06:24):
the system because they don'tknow where they quite fit in.
And as far as on paper for theschool, there is no place they
really fit in. They're kind oflost in the just regular
classroom, but also not quitegetting what they need in, like
sped services always so that,for me, was our experience, and
(06:47):
that's where I had to step in asa parent and really advocate for
my girls, because a lot of theirchallenges are hidden. And you
know, often teachers will say,Well, you know, she's one of my
best students. She's reallyquiet. She never disrupts the
class. She, you know, does whatshe's supposed to do. And like,
Yeah, that's true. Um, a lot ofthese kids are really quiet and
(07:09):
just kind of sliding by, but notgetting what they need either.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (07:13):
Um, I think especially with with emails,
especially with girls,absolutely, you heard the same
thing, yeah, the same thingabout our daughter and but
internally, she was coming homeand like, melting on the floor,
and, like, losing a thingbecause, like, she had to work
so hard all day long just to,like, try to fit, like you're
(07:34):
like, what you're saying fit inwith what she thinks she's
supposed to be exactly.
Jen Anderson (07:39):
And that's called masking, and that's a huge thing
for neurodivergent girls inparticular, only because it's
more difficult for girls, Ithink, only because there's so
much more social structure andexpectation around girls
behavior, as far as being niceand, you know, being respectful,
like one of the number onethings that gets attached to
(08:01):
kind of a label to girls on thespectrum or girls with other
neurodivergent qualities, isrude. You know, she's rude
either she's not speaking whenspoken to, or maybe speaking
without a filter, like beingvery black and white, very
direct. And so it's like they'reeither the big girls and very
(08:21):
quiet, or they're rude, andthere's no in between for them,
and so that's really difficult,especially in the classroom
setting,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (08:31):
yeah, well, and I feel like to your point,
also, the school system haslike, two ways that they deal
with kids, right? It's the IEPor it's the 504 and there's like
nothing really also in betweenthat. And they both come with
such rigorous, well, 504doesn't, but the IEP comes with
such rigorous, yes, structure toit. And so again, varying
(08:54):
depending on the school districtyou're in, can be a very
different experience. Andsometimes you have to push
harder and sometimes you don't,but, right? Yeah, anything a
hard, hard spot,
Jen Anderson (09:06):
Right, exactly. And I found I even had to really
advocate and educate withinthose parameters. For our oldest
for a time, she did have an IEP.And when you have an IEP for
your child, you go to an IEPreview to put it in place. And
you review, you know whatthey've written for goals, and
what I found from my oldest whenshe had one of those, is that
(09:29):
the goals were really based onhow others perceived her, rather
than actually being supportiveof her and her needs. So it was
more so working with the goal oftrying to make her appear more
typical and not have needs inthe classroom setting, rather
(09:50):
than just accommodating herneeds, right like and they were
accommodating her needs in themeantime, but the goal written
on paper was always like. Veryableist language, and very much
trying to just make her appeartypical in order to pass out of
the IEP system. And that was areal problem for me, just the
(10:13):
language of it and the way itwas regarded. And so that's
really where I started toadvocate pretty firmly, even
down to like, what language wasappropriate,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (10:26):
Well. And how do you know? Because I know
when we went through thisprocess, I my daughter, 504, my
son is on an IEP. And when yougo through this process the
first time, you don't reallyeven know what you can and can't
ask for, or what services youknow they're required to offer
you. Or like, like, it wasalways interesting to me when we
(10:48):
moved from Oregon to Minnesota,like, the difference in the
language in our school district,the services that they were
willing to offer that I wouldhave never asked for because I
just didn't know. So how do youlike, how did you educate
yourself to even be able to say,Okay, well, you should be doing
these things. These things aresomething that, you know, I need
to message and craft for mydaughter to get her the support.
(11:10):
Like, where did that formationcome from? For you?
Jen Anderson (11:13):
I really just dove in and, you know, this is just
kind of my personality too, tolike, really dive into something
and self educate as much aspossible. So I did a lot of
reading. I attended conferences,conferences for Temple Grand in
spoke, who's well known in theautism community, and reading a
lot in particular about the waygirls present differently on the
(11:38):
spectrum and with ADHD, and justeducating myself on as best as I
could what their perspective, mydaughter's perspective, of their
experiences, might be like. Sothat meant listening to people
who are actually autistic oractually have ADHD and have
anxiety, and listening to thosevoices rather than just like the
(12:00):
clinical stereotypical versionsof their diagnosis.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (12:08):
Yeah, and then through all that, is that
kind of where you also learn,like you mentioned, like the
ableist language and the way tolook at the goals that they're
giving you, is this reallyhelping to support a child, or
is this just to make it easierfor the school, right? How have
you like, how do you inside yourhouse, or how do you work with
(12:29):
your girls on kind of here's howpeople talk about you, right? Or
so any you like, as in anyperson that's neurotypical, but
here's how we talk about it inthe house, like, how do you kind
of have those conversations withthem so that they feel
comfortable, or that they cankind of self advocate for
(12:50):
themselves as well?
Jen Anderson (12:52):
Yeah, for sure. So I think language is super
important with any child. Whenwe're raising our children as a
parent, a lot of us have learnedand work with. You know, kids
have big emotions a lot of thetime as they're developing and,
oh, I know, as a parent,something I learned very quickly
is the more language I couldgive my children to, um, express
(13:14):
what they're feeling, the morelanguage I could give them
around emotions, the better theycould understand what they were
feeling, articulate their needs.And I think it's the same with
neurodiversity andneurodivergent brains. The more
language you can give them todescribe the way their brain
works, the better they'll beable to understand and advocate
(13:36):
for themselves. And so for me,it's an idea of, like, I know a
lot of people are afraid to taketheir child in to get diagnosed
or assessed, because they'reafraid of the label. And when
they're in that they'rereferring to, like, the word
autism spectrum or ADHD, likethey're afraid of their child
(13:56):
being labeled with something.And in our home, we just really
flip that script, like it to us,those words are not labels.
That's language, and it'slanguage to describe the unique
way your brain works. To me,labels, all of those things
outside of this safe space thatpeople attach so like we talked
(14:18):
about before, like you're reallyrude, or, you know, you're too
loud or you're too quiet, or allof those things. To me, those
are the labels. And so we'vereally raised with that mindset,
like these words don't defineall of who you are. They're just
language to help describe anaspect of how you operate and
(14:39):
how your brain works
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (14:41):
Well. And I think too that what's for me,
this is my own personal opinion,that as things are shifting, I
don't really know a kid thatruns with that, that also have
some form of ADHD. I don't knowany kids right now, especially
coming out of. Covid and all ofthe shifts that aren't dealing
(15:01):
with some level of anxiety orsome level of mental health
concerns. I mean, my daughterwill sit at lunch and they'll
talk about their like they allhave therapists. It's it's so
much more common and normal. NowI like the term neurodivergent,
and now I'm missing the orneurotypical and neurodivergent
(15:24):
and ADHD, and, you know, autismspectrum, I feel like just kind
of piggyback of what you'resaying, like, like everybody now
has a label, so it's not it isjust understanding, like, this
is brain works, and I'm gonnajust learn like the school. I
think a lot of schools arecoming around to like, this is
(15:45):
just a different learning style.It's not necessarily a
completely, it's at a disease oranything, right? You know, my
kid goes to, they have an ADHDLearning Lab at his school, and
it's after school, and allthese, you know, kid who has
ADHD gets to come and they getto work in an environment where
they've got payrolls and peoplethere to help them with their
(16:07):
homework in ways that they needto process it. So I think
there's lots of things that arehappening that we as adults just
need to let go of our ownwhatever with it, because the
kids don't care, right?
Jen Anderson (16:19):
Exactly? And I think for adults, that's our
conditioning, right? Like,that's how we've learned, like,
everybody needs to be the same,like and standards for school,
like everybody has to meet acertain standard. You all need
to learn the same things and inthe same way. And, you know,
inclusion for these kids issuper important in the
classroom, right? So it doesn'twork to just remove these kids
(16:41):
from the classroom and havethem, you know, be doing their
own thing separately, because Ithink it's so important, like
you're saying. Now, I know veryfew people who I wouldn't place
on that neuro divergentspectrum, right? And once you
have kids and you who are neurodivergent, and you learn about
it, you start looking around youand even at yourself and saying,
(17:04):
Oh, wow, I actually know a lotof people who are
neurodivergent, and they justdon't know it themselves, right?
And that was a big part of itfor me too, is and both my
husband and I as parents to seesome aspects of our girls and
the way they function kind ofbeing a mirror for ourselves and
realizing some things aboutourselves and who we were as
(17:26):
children that were like, Huh,okay, yeah, this makes a lot of
sense, right? And so, like yousaid, this is a huge part of the
population, I think, even moreso than we know now, even as
common as it is now. And so tostart recognizing these words,
again, just as language thatdescribe the way somebody
operates, and knowing, too, thatevery kid with ADHD isn't a
(17:48):
monolith, right? Like, I thinkthere's like seven different
types of ADHD that we know aboutright now. So some of those are
the really quiet kids. They'renot the stereotypical
hyperactive, right? Some kidsare the more, like outgoing,
like big personalities, and somekids are both. You know, there's
a combined ADHD where they haveboth of those aspects. So, like
(18:12):
you said, just learning that,Hey, kids in general, each learn
and operate uniquely.
So what we're doing as parentsand as educators is just kind of
building a map for each of thosekids, and it's unique to each of
them. Of they're going to getwhere they want to go in life.
And certainly, there are kids onthe spectrum that have comorbids
(18:34):
that create more disability forthem, but I think every kid on
the spectrum has moments ofdisability, right? Every kind
with ADHD has moments ofdisability, and I think where we
go amiss in school and asparents is to just assume
they're okay all the time andnot checking in with them on
(18:55):
their experience of life andwhat they're feeling trying to
navigate a world that's reallybuilt for neurotypical people
and neurotypical learners. Youknow, we're a miss when they're
quiet, to not check in and say,Hey, how are you really doing?
How are you feeling about this?Because a child only knows
(19:15):
themselves, and they know thatis their normal, right and and
yet, when we don't give kidsthis language to identify with
how their brain maybe worksdifferently, our kids kind of
internalize that, and they feeldifferent. So whether or not you
(19:35):
take them to get the actualdiagnosis, I know parents are so
afraid of their child beingothered, a child can other
themselves very easily, justtheir own awareness of like, you
know, something just feels off.Like, I kind of feel like an
alien here in this environment,and I don't know why. So there
must be something wrong with me.And I think when we give them
(19:57):
appropriate language to say,hey. You. Nothing's wrong with
you. You just have a brain thatoperates differently, and that's
okay. And let's figure out whatis your personal math like? What
is your way forward? What how doyou learn? How do you engage
with people? How do yousocialize? And let's talk about
that and empower you as anindividual, rather than you
(20:20):
know, and giving you powerfullanguage about how you operate,
so that you can feel okay aboutgoing out into the world and
knowing, hey, some people mighttry to other you, but at least
that's external, and you canwalk away from that when it
comes from inside of you, andit's all that is really tough to
navigate for a child.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (20:39):
Yeah. So good. I know one of the
exercises that my daughtertherapist had her work through
when it comes to like, because,like you mentioned, we only know
what we know. We don't know ourexperience. Like, always know
how to explain our experience.So when she was trying to
explain her feelings, because alot of times we also like, Well,
are you mad or are you, both,like, frustrated, like, will
(21:02):
given terms, but they don'tnecessarily know how that
manifests for them. So she wouldtell her to come up with her own
word, her emotion. So, like, thekid that was really frustrating
to her, they came up, it's likesilly words, it would be she
might say, like the grout, like,that's how she talked about that
feeling. So, like, they attachit. So, like, you can use these
(21:24):
things that they can kind of,they don't have to identify it
with a word. They can identifyit with something else that
they've experienced, and thencan start to work through that
conversation and help themidentify, Okay, well, what
you're we're saying their peoplewould typically use mad or sad
or, you know, just to kind ofhelp them, guide them through,
figuring out what that emotionreally is without also without
(21:48):
us self imposing. Well, ifyou're acting like this, then
must feel this. That's not alsothe case,
Jen Anderson (21:55):
Right? Exactly like that's a really important
lesson that we learned asparents too with our girls, like
behavior is not always anindication of actual feeling.
Right. Like behavior is a copingmechanism for what you're
feeling. It may not match theactual feeling. Like, for
instance, with kids who haveanxiety that often comes out as
anger and like we were talkingabout, when they mask all day at
(22:17):
school and kind of holdeverything in when they come
home to their safe space,there's a huge explosion, like,
we experienced a lot of that,and that's like the after school
let down. You know, we're like,I'm home, I'm safe, I'm going to
let it all out. Everything Iheld in today is going to come
out at home. That's reallytypical of these kiddos. And you
(22:37):
know, when you're creating thatsafe space at home, which
hopefully, as a parent, you arethat's going to happen, and
you're going to have some ofthat, and so knowing like, hey,
this behavior seems angry orseems really volatile or seems,
you know, really frustrated, butmaybe it's like hurt or sadness
or just straight up fusion, youknow, often with my girls, I
(22:58):
know they were just confusedabout things that happened at
school, whether it be socialthings or, you know, an activity
they did at school that was justconfusing for them, and that
just created that internalfrustration that then comes out
as anger at home. So there canbe lots of different triggers,
and the behavior doesn't alwaysmatch what's actually going on.
So as a parent learning to kindof like, dig and help your child
(23:20):
dig to that root cause. Because,you know, a lot of kids on the
spectrum, too, do have troubleidentifying what they're
feeling. And yeah, I think forthem, it's like very somatic,
like they feel it in their body.It feels like a very like, real
sense in their body, but theydon't know how to name it. So
helping your child begin to namethings. You know, that was
(23:42):
definitely a tool that we'veused at home to create that safe
space of like, hey, whateveryou're feeling or expressing
here is okay, and you're notgoing to be punished for coming
home from school and letting itall out. Like, I'm glad you feel
safe with me to do that. Butlet's talk about when they're
calm, where did it come from,and what can we do about it?
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (24:04):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that's
been hard for us to navigate, soI would love your thoughts on
this is, how do we kids continueto grow and we're learning, and
we, you know, we have reallygood conversation with kids and
whatnot. There comes a pointwhere you start to question,
like, okay, are they now usingthis as a crutch? So for
example, my daughter has a bigattack. Sometimes it takes her
(24:28):
two days to, like, really getback to normal, right? And for
for that day or two later,sometimes she can sequence re
overload, like, going to school.Is it really hard? So we've
really struggled with that. Howdo we do we support her in what
she needs without turning itinto a crutch that maybe at some
(24:51):
point she can Well, I'm havinganxiety, anxiety moments I can't
avoid this thing that's hard.
Jen Anderson (24:59):
Right? Right? So and like, I'm not an expert by
any means. This is still, yeah,but my oldest is now a teenager,
right? And so, and she feelsvery empowered by her diagnosis.
She's very open about it. Shehas preferred language around
her diagnosis. She has preferredways of self advocating, but
(25:21):
she's an awesome self advocate,and I think just being
comfortable in her house withthe language and talking very
openly, having thoseconversations has really led her
to a place of being able to feelempowered by it. But certainly
there's things like that are youhave to remember, like, whatever
is typical, like for us rightnow, of a typical teenager, it's
(25:43):
just like times 100 for ourneurodivergent kiddos, right? So
she's in that phase of kind ofwanting to, like, retreat to her
room, kind of self isolate, beon her phone a lot, and we're
always trying to find a balanceof, you know how much of this is
about how her brain works? Howmuch is like typical team
(26:06):
behavior? How much do we pushright because we're not wanting
to shame because certainly,school takes a lot of her
energy. She's at a charterschool right now, which is in
our public school district, andso I understand, and we know
school absolutely does take alot of her energy. You know,
that kind of forcedsocialization all day long takes
(26:28):
a lot out of her.
As a neurodivergent kiddo, sheneeds a lot of downtime, a lot
of recuperating. And so the waywe're navigating that right now
is, again, just talking to herabout it, like, Hey, I get it
because of who you are and theway your brain works. You need
extra downtime. It takes youlonger to recover than the
average kiddo from just a weekat school. And you know what?
(26:51):
All kids going through the weekat school are struggling by the
weekend and ready to just chill.We get that. And we get that.
It's more intense for you as aneurodivergent kid, but let's
find our edge here, and that'ssomething we're talking to her a
lot about, finding your edge.Where is that place? Where,
like, you're pushing yourselfjust gently out of your comfort
(27:11):
zone while still honoring whoyou are as a person? So finding
that balance of like, you knowwhat? Friday after school,
Friday evening. Please don'tplan any activities for me, I
need to come home and just vegout for the night, totally get
it right. Like going to give youthat space and allow her to do
that, and then we have to justkind of gently push her, because
(27:33):
over the weekend, we want tohave family time. We want to get
out and do things as a family.And if it were up to her, she
would just stay home, right? Butwe find that when we push her
just a little bit and she willresist, always, that once we get
her out and doing things as afamily, she finds a lot of joy
in that, and she really isenjoying the experience. And
(27:54):
then we just, you know, create,help her learn to create
balance. Like, hey, we're gonnago do this thing as a family.
Also giving her a lot ofinformation really helps,
because of how her brain works.So we're going here, we're going
to do A, B and C. It's going totake us about this amount of
time. And I'll even say to her,I'm going to need you to be
flexible, though, because itcould take up to an hour more
(28:14):
than we expect it to, right? Andthen we make a deal. So once
we've done that when we get backhome, I'm going to give you half
an hour to just veg out on yourphone before we start talking
about what we're going to do forright like so we just kind of
have to talk through more of adetailed schedule and what to
expect and when to expect it, sothat she can feel safe in
(28:37):
pushing herself to that edge,And we create that safe all
those details so she knows,like, Okay, I don't want to, but
I'm going to go do this becauseI know here's the safety net
that's set up for me afterwards.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (28:52):
I think what's beautiful about that is
you're building a couple ofthings. One, you're building
trust with her that she knowsand feels safe like you hear
her, you know what she needs.You are putting her needs as as
a priority to make sure that youknow she gets what she needs.
But also you're also kind ofletting her know that she's
(29:12):
bigger kitty, that, yes, youhave these things that respect
your batteries. You are stillpart of this community that is a
family, and there's anexpectation there as well, and
that we work together as a unit.So I think that's really
beautiful way to kind of framethat.
Jen Anderson (29:30):
Yeah, for sure, and it's easy as a parent to and
we've certainly had thosemoments where we're like, you
spend too much time on yourphone. We're going to shut down
your phone, like, getting intothat, like, threat negotiation,
yeah, and we have to just, like,take a deep breath when we're
feeling that as a parent likethis is wrong. You shouldn't be
tuning out like this. And justremember, okay, part of this is,
(29:52):
she's a teen, and she's tryingto, again, gain that autonomy.
She's self isolating a bitbecause, you know. She just
wants that alone time and sheenjoys time with herself, which
I tell her all the time, like,that's awesome. Like enjoying
time by yourself is like somesomething a lot of people
struggle with. And what a greatskill to have for your life.
(30:13):
Enjoy your own company, yeah.And at same time, I have to,
like, take a breath from that.Like you're on your phone. Too
much to just say, hey, you knowwhat we miss you. Your family is
missing you. You're spending alot of time in your room. And I
just want to check in and makesure, like, is that just because
you need the downtime, or, like,is there anything bothering you
because you also have to worryabout depression and, you know,
(30:34):
right things going on you're nottelling us about at school.
Like, neurodivergent kids aremore likely to be bullied at
school, you know? And sometimesthat's subtle, so you don't
always know. So just a lot ofchecking in, being like, Hey,
are you happy right now being onyour own? And, like, for my
child, she's always like, Yep,I'm really happy. I'm fine.
Like, quit worrying about me. Ijust want to be alone, you know.
(30:56):
Like, leave me alone. I'm like,okay, great, yeah. So we're just
always we're talking about thatedge. We're trying to find that
edge as a family unit and asindividuals, of like, where do
we push ourselves out of thatcomfort zone a little bit?
Because the comfort zone is verycomforting, but long term, that
build up of self isolation canlead to depression and other
(31:18):
things, right? So we're talkingto her about that and being
like, hey, we get that. You'rereally happy about this time by
yourself right now, but justknow, like, it's not really
healthy to just always be aloneor always be in your room by
yourself, or always be on yourphone, right so just educating
about balance and how a healthylife means finding that balance
and that edge.
Unknown (31:41):
Jen, I, as always, like love on all of this and
everything. I always, you know,get new ideas every time I got
with you about our kiddos andall that, and I know that people
are listening or too, we couldprobably talk about for hours
and hours and hours. In fact, wehave before, but um, you know,
if there was maybe, like, youknow, one or two lessons that
(32:01):
you learned, or things that, ifyou wish you would have known at
the beginning, or, just like,even a couple tips that you
might want to leave people withthat they're listening to this
and they're, like, noticingmaybe, maybe we need to be
having a different kind ofconversation for kiddo. Or maybe
there's something we're not, youknow, paying attention to, or
something with the school kindof any last word advice you
would want to share?
Jen Anderson (32:21):
Yeah, yeah, I would say, as a parent to just
know like you are your child'sbest advocate, and doing some
reading, looking intoperspectives of adults who
actually you know can use someof that same language to
describe themselves as yourchild, and looking to those
people for direction is one ofthe best things she could do. I
(32:43):
when our oldest first receivedher diagnosis, I remember being
in a complete panic and justwondering, like, what does this
mean for her, for her life, forher family, like you know, and
just feeling kind of lost andoverwhelmed, and what I if I
could go back to like myself atthat moment, I would just say,
this is going to be okay, andthis is just a learning curve.
(33:04):
It's something you have tolearn. But I would let your
child lead. And I think in everysituation, you know, we've made
a lot of decisions over theyears of like to homeschool at
some points and put them inschool at other points. And each
step of the way those decisionshave been made by letting our
children lead and letting themtell us what their words and
(33:24):
their behavior and theirfeelings, what they need in that
moment, and just rememberingthat your job disappearing isn't
to fix everything, it's just tolisten, to be there, to show up
for them, create that safe spaceand be their best advocate,
while also teaching them toadvocate themselves.
Unknown (33:44):
Yeah, I That's so good. Well, Jen, if people maybe want
to connect with you, if you'reopen to that, or if they will
learn more about your new bids,I don't. You probably don't. Do
you ship your delicious
Jen Anderson (33:57):
I don't ship, no, it's just local for that.
Well, how could people maybereach out if they have a
question, or if they just wantto connect? Or,
Yeah, absolutely, I'm alwayshappy to talk with other parents
or just to offer support. So anyquestions you have, you can
email me at Jen Anderson. It'sAnderson with an SLN
(34:19):
studio@gmail.com and I'll getback to you when I can. But
yeah, I welcome any questions. Ithis is something I love talking
about because it's, you know,very integrated into my life
here as a parent with two kids,they each have their own unique
brains, so it's something I'velearned a lot about over the
past 13 years, and I'm happy toshare that knowledge.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (34:42):
So yeah, I really appreciate it well. Thank
you so much for coming on todayfor openness and honesty. I
think this is a greatconversation for people to
continue to have. So I reallyappreciate you laying it all out
there and being so good.
Jen Anderson (34:58):
Thanks Sami. I really appreciate. Appreciate
it.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (35:01):
I just want to thank Jen again, so much for
being a guest and being so openand honest about her family
situation, not situation, butfamily life, and the girls and
how they're kind of navigatingthrough all the things. School
here is back in session, andwe're feeling it also. And so I
just love having these kinds ofconversations where we really
(35:22):
get to just kind of work throughas moms, as parents, as dads,
kind of what it takes, and thatevery child is unique and has
their own story to tell. So youcan check out the show notes and
additional resources for thisepisode at
easystylewithsami.com/2028sorry, easystylewithsami.com/28
(35:49):
thank you so much for listening.I love sharing these stories and
having conversations with peoplein my world and new people that
I get to meet. If you knowsomebody that would have an
amazing story to tell on theEasy Style with Sami podcast.
Shoot me an email.sami@easystylewithsami.com
that's S, A, M, I, and I hopethat you will subscribe wherever
you listen so you don't miss outon on any episodes. Wow, I'm
(36:12):
having a hard time talkingtoday. Thank you so much for
joining me, and I will see youin the next one. You.
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