July 2, 2025 • 24 mins
Can AI help teachers do more of what matters most? In this episode, I join Rachel and Christina from The Conversation podcast to explore AI’s real impact in schools. We discuss tools like MagicSchool, Diffit, and Brisk, and how they support both students and teachers. We also dive into personalized learning, teacher PD, and the “baby steps” approach to AI adoption. Plus, I share practical insights on balancing tech with humanity in the classroom.
#EduDuctTape
This interview was originally aired on The Conversation Podcast by Rachel Daniels, John Hambrick, and Christina Grady-Watts of the Educational Service Center of Central Ohio. It is being re-aired here with their permission.
You can access the original episode and other episodes of the show here:
https://www.escco.org/TheConversationPodcast.aspx
0:00:00 INTRO
0:03:24 The Conversation: Beyond the Buzzword: Practical Applications of AI in the Classroom
0:04:30 Jake’s Background
0:05:52 AI Trends in Education
0:10:16 What is Personalized Learning?
0:13:06 The Impact of AI on Personalized Learning
0:15:57 Teacher PD for AI Usaged
0:21:04 Where should Educators Start with AI?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jake (00:00):
Teachers want to reach every student, but time, energy, and
(00:04):
capacity often stand in the way.
In today's episode, I hop over into theguest seat for a conversation on the
evolving role of AI in education and howI think it could help make that possible.
From scaffolding learning to lighteningteacher workloads, we unpack the
practical, the powerful, and yes,even the salad related elements behind
(00:25):
personalized learning in the age of ai.
Let's dig in.
Welcome.
Welcome in, friends.
I hope you're all doing well.
Happy July.
Teachers everywhere , at least in NorthAmerica are like, oh, don't say it's July.
(00:46):
I want it to still be June.
I hope your summers are going well.
I hope you're preparing for wonderful4th of July celebrations, those of you
in the States, and I hope the rest ofyou are having a wonderful day as well.
So I was all prepared to come to youtoday with an episode of updates,
focusing on the updates that Google, um.
Announced as part of their,you know, they always announced
(01:07):
a bunch of education updates.
The week of ISTE, the InternationalSociety for Technology
and Education Conference.
I kind of stumbled on thatacronym there for a second.
Um, That took place this weekin, I think it was San Antonio.
I don't know where it was at.
I wasn't there.
I decided not to go this year.
Um, but they always announce updates.
This year they announced a lot,a ton, a whole slew of updates.
(01:28):
And so I was all prepared or planning torelease an episode about those updates.
But there are just so many updates thatit's taking me longer to dig through
and sift through all of that informationto give you a clear, concise summary.
And that's what I always wanna do.
There's so much information.
You don't have time or energy or thewillingness to dig through all of that.
You've got other more important things.
(01:48):
So I like to be that person that readsthrough all of it and learns about
all of it and tells you about it.
So I'm going to do that with those Googleupdates, but I just could not get it
done before the Independence Day holiday.
So what I decided to do was to air adifferent interview that I did that
I'm actually super duper excited about.
I was with my friend ChristinaGrady-Watts, and my new friend
Rachel Daniels from the EducationalService Center of Central Ohio.
(02:11):
We did this interview a, a monthor two ago about AI and education.
Christina and Rachelare so stinking smart.
I really enjoyed the conversation.
We got deep into AI andpersonalized learning and tech
and how they work together.
I was super proud of it.
Asked them, could I air this in my feed?
They graciously said yes.
Uh, so I'm excited to share thework that they do over there.
(02:32):
Hopefully you'll go check out more oftheir podcast episodes, that Rachel and
John Hambrick do for ESC of Central Ohio.
On the conversation is the nameof the podcast, and Christina is
also the producer of the show.
. Christina has been a buddy ofmine for years and it was cool to
get to talk to her in this lens.
So next week I'll sharethose Google updates.
I've got 'em all broken down for you, orI'm working on getting 'em all broken down
(02:53):
for you so I can tell you all about it.
Today I'm gonna share thislittle bite-sized interview
that I'm super excited about.
I think you're really gonna enjoy it.
Make sure you're subscribed though,'cause next week I'm gonna give you
the clearest, concise, most best.
Uh, summarized versionof everything Google did.
So don't try to go dig through all ofthe blog posts or anything like that.
(03:13):
Just wait for me to release that episode.
Make sure you're subscribedand you'll hear it all here.
Uh, that's next week, but today aconversation on the Conversation
podcast from ESC of Central Ohio.
Here we go.
So that's what's really cool about AI isit's helping teachers be more efficient.
It's helping administrators be moreefficient, but it's also helping
students have their needs met.
Rachel (03:32):
That was Jake Miller, a personalized learning and ed
tech specialist at Summit ESCand ESC of the Western Reserve.
On this episode of the conversation,Rachel and Christina dive into
the real world impact of AI inthe classroom, exploring how both
students and teachers can harness itspotential for learning and innovation.
Let's dive in.
Christina (04:03):
Hello and welcome back to the conversation where we aim
to spark ideas and inspire change.
I'm Christina Grady-Watts,filling in for John Hambrick.
Today Rachel and I are excited tosit down with Jake Miller, author,
keynote speaker, podcaster, andpersonalized learning specialist to
discuss AI and its role in schools.
Jake, thank you so much forbeing here with us today.
Jake (04:26):
Thank you for having me, Christina and Rachel.
I'm excited.
I'm excited to join you guys.
Christina (04:29):
Yeah, we are too.
Let's, uh, let's start by hearinga little bit about your background.
What brought you to this point in yourprofessional journey and what drew you
to the intersection of AI and education?
Jake (04:41):
So, uh, first off, I'm in northeast Ohio.
I'm based outta Kent, is where Ilive, and I've been in education now
for 20, I don't know how many years.
I don't like to count it'cause it makes me feel old.
Um, and started off as a middle schoolteacher, middle school math mostly,
and then, um, science and stem.
But what I found was I was, Ireally was excited about educational
(05:01):
technology and then I found thatwhat I was actually really excited
about was supporting teachers.
So it was supporting teacherswith educational technology most
of the time, but really it's justthe act of supporting teachers.
So now.
In my role as a personalized learning andedtech specialist, I get to do that a lot.
Um, and when AI started to really, Imean, it's been around for decades,
but when it started to really come out,you know, in full force two, two-ish
(05:24):
years ago, um, I. I just realizedthat's what they needed support with.
Right.
You know, so like, I, I was, I think,just as nervous and anxious about
it as everybody else was when AIstarted to become really prominent.
But I just kind of went like, well,this is, this is what's impacting
education now, and the teachers need myhelp and so I'm gonna try to help 'em.
And, um, that's just what I do.
(05:45):
Yeah.
I wish I could say 'cause I love it andI sometimes I love it, but it's just
the helping of the teachers for sure.
Rachel (05:52):
Jake, I'm curious to hear, as you work with educators across many
districts, what trends are you noticingin how AI is being used in schools?
Jake (06:01):
It's, it's cool because when it started out, you know, two, two-ish years
ago when Chat GPT came on the scene, itwas just like, uh, go, go try out this.
This cool tool and like tell it towrite a song about you or write a
story about, and it was just, peoplewere just using it for silly stuff and
now it's really pivoted to people arereally using it to do their jobs or
their learning or whatever it might bemore efficiently and more effectively.
(06:24):
Which is, which is Ithink really exciting.
Like I, like if you talk to alarge group of teachers now, most
of them are using it in some wayto impact the way they do things.
And so are the administratorsand so are the students.
So teachers are using it to helpthem make better resources, better
instructional things, more differentiatedmaterials, meet the needs of all of their
learners, uh, provide that universallydesigned, uh, curriculum for their
(06:47):
learners because they've always wantedto do those things and they couldn't.
And now AI makes it possible that theycould take their teacher expertise and
do the thinking and let AI do the doing.
Right?
That's what, that's what alot of people like to say.
You do the thinking.
Let AI do the doing.
So they might be using tools like Diffit.
Or Brisk, which are two of myfavorite ones, to like, okay, here's,
(07:08):
here's an article we're gonna use.
We're talking about, I've, I'veselected this using my teacher
brain and understanding what'sbest for kids and my content area.
This is what's best.
Now I need this to be made at differentreading levels or in different
languages, or for learners with a,a variety of different abilities.
And they pop it into a tool like Diffitor Brisk, and it does that work for 'em.
Right.
So it makes, makes them more efficient.
(07:29):
It does.
The doing for them, the thingswe didn't use to have time for.
Then you see on the next partis how's the learner using it?
Right?
So the learner is then able toaccess different things based on
what the teacher provided to them.
But then there are studentfacing AI tools now too.
So students most can't usechat GPT, for example, right?
Because it's 13 years old andup and often doesn't meet the
(07:52):
requirements of schools privacyand, and data privacy kind of stuff.
Um, so a lot of schools, maybe they'renot using chatGPT, but they're able to use
tools like MagicSchool, which has the, theMagicStudent, um, platform or school ai.
The cool thing about both ofthose is that it kind of scaffolds
kids into using ai 'cause we needto start exposing them to it.
(08:14):
You know, unfortunately,like it's, we can't stick our
heads in the sand about this.
It's part of our world now.
It's part of their future.
So we've gotta help themlearn how to use it.
We, we can't just.
Oh, they'll figure it outafter they're outta school.
No, that's not gonna go well.
Right.
So we've gotta help them.
Um, so tools like school AI andMagicStudent and MagicSchool, um, are
nice because the teacher curates whatthey're gonna experience in there.
(08:36):
Like you could use thesedifferent features in here and
then they get a lot of data back.
Afterwards, they could see theinteraction the student had with the ai.
So then they can also make surestudents are using it appropriately.
So it kind of providesthat, that safety net there.
And the goal there is to, tomeet the needs of every learner.
So that's what's really cool aboutAI is it's helping teachers be more
efficient, it's helping administratorsbe more efficient, but it's also
(08:58):
helping students have their needs met.
And see that as a normal thing to, to usetools to support them in being successful.
Rachel (09:05):
Well, your previous comment about teacher interaction with AI reminds
me of a, a reluctant group of teachersI was supporting and I was explaining
to them how they could take some ofthe heaviness off of their own plate
by using some prescriptive AI tools.
And a teacher, you could literally seea light bulb, uh, go on over her head
and she bursts out to the whole room.
(09:27):
Hey guys, this just gets us to thestudents and to the data quicker.
Why wouldn't we use this?
And I thought, that's great.
That should be a t-shirt, right?
It gets us to the studentsand the work, uh, quicker.
Yeah.
Jake (09:41):
It frees us up to do the work that the AI can't do.
Right, exactly.
And, and that's the workthat we should be doing.
And oftentimes it's the work that I, Iknow in my classroom, all of my years
in teaching, it's the kind of thingsI wasn't able to do, um, oftentimes
because I didn't have the time, Ididn't have the bandwidth to do it.
So the one-on-one conferencing, the,uh, small group instruction, the, you
know, working with kids on specificissues, the building of rapport, like
(10:05):
sometimes you don't have time for allof those really important steps or
the looking at data to, to your point.
Um, and AI could take some things kind ofoff of our plate so that we can do that.
So that's a really great, greatastute point by that teacher.
Christina (10:16):
So Jake, let's dig in a little bit to, um, personalized learning.
And can we just start with levelsetting maybe and telling us just
defining personalized learning.
Jake (10:25):
Yeah, so what I always tell teachers a about personalized
learning, Christina, you and I haveknown each other for a few years and
you know, I'm a story and anecdotes,person, story, stories, anecdotes,
and metaphors are how I operate.
So, uh, the way I now talk aboutpersonalized learning is, uh, about once
a week we have a salad night at our house.
We have three is my wifeand I, we three kids.
And, um, on salad night wesat out on the counter, a bag
(10:49):
of lettuce, a bag of spinach.
I cut up some tomatoes and some cucumbers.
We set out some olives, a coupledifferent salad dressings,
a couple kinds of cheeses.
Um, some shredded chickenand some pepperoni.
And then we say to our kids, goahead and, and make yourself a salad.
And we have to provide some oversightto make sure they make themselves
a good salad of an appropriatesize to get a good meal out of it.
But otherwise, they'reempowered to do it themselves.
(11:10):
And so.
That's kind of a reallysimplified way of, of how I think
about personalized learning.
It's that the teacher does the, thecuration of making sure the pedagogy
and the content is, is sound, butwe're empowering the learners to
make their own salad, I like to say.
Right.
So I've done some things like.
We know my daughter, for example, doesn'teat red meat, so I can't just put out
(11:32):
just pepperoni for the protein options.
I've gotta put out theshredded chicken, right?
So I've been intentional aboutwhat I do, but I don't tell
my son who loves red meat.
You can't put chicken on your salad.
He wants some chicken too, right?
So he, he might put somechicken and some pepperoni.
So it's me differentiating, understandingthe variability of my, my kids at
(11:52):
dinnertime or my wife understandthe , variability of the kids at
the dinnertime, but then empoweringthem to make that decision, right?
And so that's, that's kind of how I thinkabout personalized learning, is empowering
the kids to make some decisions, ontheir path to their version of success.
You know, what's the best wayfor them to be successful and,
and have a good salad, let's say.
When you think about the fact that, youknow, we put out spinach and lettuce
(12:13):
'cause my daughter prefers spinach.
We put out ranch and Italiandressing 'cause I can't eat
things with eggs in them.
So I have to have the Italian dressing.
We put out chicken and pepperoni 'causemy daughter doesn't eat red meat.
We're understanding the barriers in,in the, the salad options, right?
And so we're making sure that it'sdesigned so those barriers aren't there.
And I think.
(12:33):
AI can do that for us too, right?
There's so many ways that if we thinkabout the barriers that might present
themselves in a learning environmentor content or curricula, um, AI can,
can help us overcome those barriers.
Does that make sense?
Christina (12:48):
It does.
Yeah.
And I love that analogy.
Um, and you're, you are alwaysusing the food analogies.
It's always, I love this.
That's.
It really is.
So I like that.
You just touched on, you know,that intersection of personalized
learning and ai, which I kind ofwanna dive into in a little bit.
I've been listening to a lotof, just reading a lot from like
(13:10):
futurists and, and the trends thatthey're predicting in the future.
And I keep trying to dig into,well, what, what impact will this
have on the future of education?
How is that gonna change education?
And I keep reading about, it'scoming back to personalized learning.
Jake (13:26):
Mm-hmm.
Christina (13:27):
Um, so I'm wondering, um, how do you see AI playing a
role in personalized learning?
Jake (13:33):
Yeah, so the, the first and foremost reason and, and the one that's
already here is just the, the universaldesign for learning proponent of it
where we think about what's, what'snecessary for some, or essential for
some, they say in cast a lot, essentialfor some, but beneficial for all.
So for example, in a tool like,MagicSchool, you know, you've got
(13:54):
the ability to have the, , textleveled to different levels.
And so if kids can access textat different levels, right?
Or, uh, read aloud or talk to the builtin chat bot to get support, or if we could
use Diffit to make things, uh, translatethem or put them at different levels or.
Or use other tools to makeit more relevant to kids.
So that's kind of the front of theline stuff that's kind of already
(14:16):
here, is that we can make differentoptions for learners to learn from and
empower them to choose what they need.
I think what's coming more in thefuture is seeing, uh, the curricula
and the learning experiences be alittle more catered to our students.
I think one of the problems we see incontemporary schools is that school is
becoming less and less relevant to kids.
(14:38):
Right?
I, I think about when I was inschool, I was asking my teachers
a lot or wanted to ask my teachersa lot, why should I learn this?
I think nowadays that's evenamplified, especially when kids
have TikTok, uh, mindsets of howthey process information, right?
And one minute, little bursts andso things really need to be relevant
to them and connected to the thingsthey want to be, maybe when they
(15:00):
grow up or the ways they learn best.
And so we're starting to see sometechnologies that ha have the ability
to, to individualize curriculumand things like that for learners.
Like a lot of schools in Ohio are workingwith a company called SchoolJoy, , and
SchoolJoy actually crafts individualizedcurriculum for learners based on,
(15:21):
these are the learning standards.
Now for Christina, these are her interestsand it's gonna craft it to your interests.
And for Rachel, these are her interests.
So it's gonna craft it to your interests.
And I, I think the thing that always makesme nervous is we need to make sure there's
quality control with stuff like that.
But still, I think that's somethingwe're gonna see more and more of where
the curriculum really is directed tothe learner based on the learner's
(15:44):
interests and needs and things like that.
Yeah.
And I think we're gonnasee some crazy things.
And then, I don't even know what else, Imean, who, who could like you think about.
Where we were two years ago to wherewe are now with the things AI could do.
Yeah.
It's gonna be, it's gonna be crazy.
Rachel (15:57):
I feel like the natural sort of shift in this conversation then is
about teacher preparation and makingsure that teachers are equipped with
the knowledge that they need to usethe right tools in the right time.
And so I'm curious.
How you view the role of professionaldevelopment in ensuring that educators
feel confident to use AI toolsthat educators feel empowered and
(16:20):
they don't feel as though AI is,in some ways, saying that the art
of teaching doesn't have a place.
Mm. I mean, that's sortof where my head goes.
So I'd love to hear your visionof professional development
in the context of ai.
Jake (16:37):
So I think what I've learned over the years with professional
development is as much as I like tobe at the front of the room talking
and, and telling these metaphorsabout, about food and restaurants
and things like that, what reallyneeds to happen most in professional
development is teachers having time totry things out and teachers having time
to explore them and teachershaving time to set things up.
(16:59):
So I think that's the most importantpiece of a, of good professional
development is, is teacher just time.
Um, and the second mostimportant part is examples.
So much when we talk about personalizedlearning, for example, teachers are like,
well, Jake, this sounds great, and Iunderstand the whole idea of, of feeding
your kids different salads, but like,what does that look like in my classroom?
(17:19):
Right.
And they wanna see it.
And so I think the samething is true with ai.
They're like, what doesthis really look like?
So.
I think one of the best waysto make that happen is teachers
sharing with one another.
Right.
Teachers saying, this ishow I used MagicSchool.
This is how I used ChatGPT, thisis how I used Diffit, right.
To make my job easier.
So I think the two big pieces areseeing examples of it in use, um, and
(17:42):
having time to explore it and use it.
And then the third thing I'd putin there too, because, because
this is so overwhelming and scary.
For a lot of teachers, right?
I, I feel overwhelmed by AI sometimes,and I'm an, I'm an ed tech guy, right?
Like, this is what I'm intoand I'm overwhelmed by it.
So I think they justneed that direct support.
(18:03):
And I think a lot, for a lot of teachersthat might look like instructional
coaching, I think instructional coachingis a really, really strong opportunity for
them to, to grow and become comfortable,it's something that they're scared about.
And so if we have instructional coachesin place that also know about ai.
I think there's a lot of potentialthere to support our teachers.
Rachel (18:21):
And I also wonder, you know, we so often talk about differentiation for
students, but even as a professionaldeveloper myself, I'm often delivering
one size fits all professional learningto folks, and I am a strong proponent of
really developing pedagogical contentknowledge and giving math teachers
math PD so they can become thatstronger math experts and so forth.
(18:43):
So that's another way in which I wouldlike to see the use of AI sort of taken in
and is helping folks in my capacity thinkabout how can we leverage tools to make
pedagogical content knowledge an importantcomponent for teacher development.
Right?
Yeah.
Uh, and moving outside of sort of whatwe currently see as the PD landscape.
(19:03):
So,
Jake (19:04):
yeah.
And that's a great point because AIis beneficial for us as professional
development providers in the same way thatit's beneficial for teachers as content
providers to their students, right?
So we can go, like, I'm providing aPD on this skill and I have a group
of science teachers in there, um, anduse the AI to support us in kind of
crafting different versions of whatwe're sharing based on their needs.
(19:26):
And what I like to do is.
I, I find that the ai, I think,I'm sure everybody knows this by
now, but AI likes to just pretendit's right about everything.
Uh, and, and just spit out informationthat may or may not be accurate.
Like I coach my kids' basketball team andI tried one time to say, okay, I've gotta
develop who's gonna play in each quarter.
I've got this many kids.
(19:47):
Um, each kid needs toplay this many quarters.
These kids play these differentpositions and I like put it in.
I'm like, go ahead and make me a rotation.
And I go like, here's a rotation.
It's perfect.
And it would have like.
One kid playing two positionsin the same quarter.
And I'm like, ChatGPT, there's that.
That's one person.
He can't do that.
And it's like, oh, sorry, lemme try again.
And it does it again andit's the same thing again.
And I'm like, no, you're not doing well.
(20:08):
So.
When I think of doing things,especially serious things like
professional development or craftinglessons for a class or something
like that, I like to give it asmuch information as possible, right?
So I'm giving it articles and I'mexplaining things and I'm putting
all kinds of stuff in there soit's not inventing things so that
it's using things that I trust.
(20:28):
So I'm giving it, you know, maybecontent standards and maybe some
pedagogical knowledge and, and allkinds of, as much content as I can, uh,
to help it give me really good stuff.
Rachel (20:38):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, uh, what you get fromAI is only as good as the prompt
that you're able to provide.
Jake (20:44):
Yeah, for sure.
And that
Rachel (20:45):
is so critical and the feedback folks have watched over my shoulder,
like as I've been, you know, teachingpeople how to do particular things
and they'll notice that, you know, my
my chat bot is my friend.
I'll say, thank you so muchfor your contribution, but
here's where you fell short.
They're like, why are youtalking to it like that?
I'm like, I wanted to be my friend.
Right?
Oh, this is just such a rich conversation.
(21:07):
Jake, let's end here.
Um, let's end with a call to action.
So for educators who might feeloverwhelmed or unsure about
integrating AI into their teaching.
What's the best way forthem to get started?
Are there specific tools or resources thatyou would recommend them exploring first?
Jake (21:26):
So I think the first and most important thing is you don't
have to do it all at once, right?
Just, take a small step and, and, andthen take another small step after that.
Take another small step after that.
I like to talk about.
How, how we use the term baby stepsa lot and, and when we say baby
steps, what we mean is small steps.
But I think the other part thatwe're missing there is when a baby
learns to walk, they take smallsteps, but they also fall down a
(21:48):
lot and then they get right back up.
So when I think about babysteps, it's two things.
It's take small steps one step at atime, but it's also like be prepared
for something to not work out right.
And be ready to getback up and keep going.
So I think the baby steps isimportant to think about that.
Um, so think about like what's.
What's something whereyou could leverage ai?
What's a painful part of your maybe lessonplanning process or content creation or
(22:12):
a need you have in school for students?
So let's say for example, you havean article that's really important
that kids read in your class nextweek, but you know, it's above the
lexile level of, um, a quarter ofthe kids in your class and you don't
have time to make it fit that need.
But it'd be really great if youcould so use AI to do that, and
that's kind of your first step.
So you identified something that's achallenge for you right now, and then
(22:35):
that could be your first way you use ai.
Um, in terms of tools to use, Ithink even though ChatGPT is the,
the most well known one, and, and
one of the most capable ones, it could bea little bit overwhelming 'cause you just
go into it and you're, you're staring atthis black screen with a blinking cursor
and you're like, what do I tell it to do?
Uh, so I kind of like tools likeDiffit or MagicSchool to start with
(22:59):
just because you're like, oh yeah,here's a, here's a text leveler.
Like click on it and, andtell it the grade level.
I want this text and give it thelink so it's already ready for you.
It's already built for you.
Um, and so those are a greatkind of entry level tool.
And, and then you could keep usingthem forever too, but they're,
a great way to start off is withthose simpler tools like that.
Rachel (23:18):
I love that approach, you know, start small, but also that,
you know, realization that thiswon't be without its pitfalls.
Mm-hmm.
And so be ready to jump back up again.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, and keepthe work moving forward.
Well, Jake, we are so thankful foryour time today, and it was incredible
to just dip into your expertisefor, uh, these few short moments.
(23:38):
We, um, expect that we'll betalking to you more and more as
AI continues to grow and expand.
And as I remind people, um, don't belike those folks back in the, the good
old days when the internet was new,who said, I'm not learning that thing.
It's not here to stay.
Right.
You gotta Yeah.
Embrace it and, and, and learnabout it and, and, and move forward.
(23:59):
Right.
Thank you to our listeningaudience for tuning in today.
We certainly appreciateyour presence with us.
For Christina, this is Rachel.
Take some baby steps with ai.
Stay curious and keepthe conversation going.
Teachers want to reach every student, but time, energy, and
(00:04):
capacity often stand in the way.
In today's episode, I hop over into theguest seat for a conversation on the
evolving role of AI in education and howI think it could help make that possible.
From scaffolding learning to lighteningteacher workloads, we unpack the
practical, the powerful, and yes,even the salad related elements behind
(00:25):
personalized learning in the age of ai.
Let's dig in.
Welcome.
Welcome in, friends.
I hope you're all doing well.
Happy July.
Teachers everywhere , at least in NorthAmerica are like, oh, don't say it's July.
(00:46):
I want it to still be June.
I hope your summers are going well.
I hope you're preparing for wonderful4th of July celebrations, those of you
in the States, and I hope the rest ofyou are having a wonderful day as well.
So I was all prepared to come to youtoday with an episode of updates,
focusing on the updates that Google, um.
Announced as part of their,you know, they always announced
(01:07):
a bunch of education updates.
The week of ISTE, the InternationalSociety for Technology
and Education Conference.
I kind of stumbled on thatacronym there for a second.
Um, That took place this weekin, I think it was San Antonio.
I don't know where it was at.
I wasn't there.
I decided not to go this year.
Um, but they always announce updates.
This year they announced a lot,a ton, a whole slew of updates.
(01:28):
And so I was all prepared or planning torelease an episode about those updates.
But there are just so many updates thatit's taking me longer to dig through
and sift through all of that informationto give you a clear, concise summary.
And that's what I always wanna do.
There's so much information.
You don't have time or energy or thewillingness to dig through all of that.
You've got other more important things.
(01:48):
So I like to be that person that readsthrough all of it and learns about
all of it and tells you about it.
So I'm going to do that with those Googleupdates, but I just could not get it
done before the Independence Day holiday.
So what I decided to do was to air adifferent interview that I did that
I'm actually super duper excited about.
I was with my friend ChristinaGrady-Watts, and my new friend
Rachel Daniels from the EducationalService Center of Central Ohio.
(02:11):
We did this interview a, a monthor two ago about AI and education.
Christina and Rachelare so stinking smart.
I really enjoyed the conversation.
We got deep into AI andpersonalized learning and tech
and how they work together.
I was super proud of it.
Asked them, could I air this in my feed?
They graciously said yes.
Uh, so I'm excited to share thework that they do over there.
(02:32):
Hopefully you'll go check out more oftheir podcast episodes, that Rachel and
John Hambrick do for ESC of Central Ohio.
On the conversation is the nameof the podcast, and Christina is
also the producer of the show.
. Christina has been a buddy ofmine for years and it was cool to
get to talk to her in this lens.
So next week I'll sharethose Google updates.
I've got 'em all broken down for you, orI'm working on getting 'em all broken down
(02:53):
for you so I can tell you all about it.
Today I'm gonna share thislittle bite-sized interview
that I'm super excited about.
I think you're really gonna enjoy it.
Make sure you're subscribed though,'cause next week I'm gonna give you
the clearest, concise, most best.
Uh, summarized versionof everything Google did.
So don't try to go dig through all ofthe blog posts or anything like that.
(03:13):
Just wait for me to release that episode.
Make sure you're subscribedand you'll hear it all here.
Uh, that's next week, but today aconversation on the Conversation
podcast from ESC of Central Ohio.
Here we go.
So that's what's really cool about AI isit's helping teachers be more efficient.
It's helping administrators be moreefficient, but it's also helping
students have their needs met.
Rachel (03:32):
That was Jake Miller, a personalized learning and ed
tech specialist at Summit ESCand ESC of the Western Reserve.
On this episode of the conversation,Rachel and Christina dive into
the real world impact of AI inthe classroom, exploring how both
students and teachers can harness itspotential for learning and innovation.
Let's dive in.
Christina (04:03):
Hello and welcome back to the conversation where we aim
to spark ideas and inspire change.
I'm Christina Grady-Watts,filling in for John Hambrick.
Today Rachel and I are excited tosit down with Jake Miller, author,
keynote speaker, podcaster, andpersonalized learning specialist to
discuss AI and its role in schools.
Jake, thank you so much forbeing here with us today.
Jake (04:26):
Thank you for having me, Christina and Rachel.
I'm excited.
I'm excited to join you guys.
Christina (04:29):
Yeah, we are too.
Let's, uh, let's start by hearinga little bit about your background.
What brought you to this point in yourprofessional journey and what drew you
to the intersection of AI and education?
Jake (04:41):
So, uh, first off, I'm in northeast Ohio.
I'm based outta Kent, is where Ilive, and I've been in education now
for 20, I don't know how many years.
I don't like to count it'cause it makes me feel old.
Um, and started off as a middle schoolteacher, middle school math mostly,
and then, um, science and stem.
But what I found was I was, Ireally was excited about educational
(05:01):
technology and then I found thatwhat I was actually really excited
about was supporting teachers.
So it was supporting teacherswith educational technology most
of the time, but really it's justthe act of supporting teachers.
So now.
In my role as a personalized learning andedtech specialist, I get to do that a lot.
Um, and when AI started to really, Imean, it's been around for decades,
but when it started to really come out,you know, in full force two, two-ish
(05:24):
years ago, um, I. I just realizedthat's what they needed support with.
Right.
You know, so like, I, I was, I think,just as nervous and anxious about
it as everybody else was when AIstarted to become really prominent.
But I just kind of went like, well,this is, this is what's impacting
education now, and the teachers need myhelp and so I'm gonna try to help 'em.
And, um, that's just what I do.
(05:45):
Yeah.
I wish I could say 'cause I love it andI sometimes I love it, but it's just
the helping of the teachers for sure.
Rachel (05:52):
Jake, I'm curious to hear, as you work with educators across many
districts, what trends are you noticingin how AI is being used in schools?
Jake (06:01):
It's, it's cool because when it started out, you know, two, two-ish years
ago when Chat GPT came on the scene, itwas just like, uh, go, go try out this.
This cool tool and like tell it towrite a song about you or write a
story about, and it was just, peoplewere just using it for silly stuff and
now it's really pivoted to people arereally using it to do their jobs or
their learning or whatever it might bemore efficiently and more effectively.
(06:24):
Which is, which is Ithink really exciting.
Like I, like if you talk to alarge group of teachers now, most
of them are using it in some wayto impact the way they do things.
And so are the administratorsand so are the students.
So teachers are using it to helpthem make better resources, better
instructional things, more differentiatedmaterials, meet the needs of all of their
learners, uh, provide that universallydesigned, uh, curriculum for their
(06:47):
learners because they've always wantedto do those things and they couldn't.
And now AI makes it possible that theycould take their teacher expertise and
do the thinking and let AI do the doing.
Right?
That's what, that's what alot of people like to say.
You do the thinking.
Let AI do the doing.
So they might be using tools like Diffit.
Or Brisk, which are two of myfavorite ones, to like, okay, here's,
(07:08):
here's an article we're gonna use.
We're talking about, I've, I'veselected this using my teacher
brain and understanding what'sbest for kids and my content area.
This is what's best.
Now I need this to be made at differentreading levels or in different
languages, or for learners with a,a variety of different abilities.
And they pop it into a tool like Diffitor Brisk, and it does that work for 'em.
Right.
So it makes, makes them more efficient.
(07:29):
It does.
The doing for them, the thingswe didn't use to have time for.
Then you see on the next partis how's the learner using it?
Right?
So the learner is then able toaccess different things based on
what the teacher provided to them.
But then there are studentfacing AI tools now too.
So students most can't usechat GPT, for example, right?
Because it's 13 years old andup and often doesn't meet the
(07:52):
requirements of schools privacyand, and data privacy kind of stuff.
Um, so a lot of schools, maybe they'renot using chatGPT, but they're able to use
tools like MagicSchool, which has the, theMagicStudent, um, platform or school ai.
The cool thing about both ofthose is that it kind of scaffolds
kids into using ai 'cause we needto start exposing them to it.
(08:14):
You know, unfortunately,like it's, we can't stick our
heads in the sand about this.
It's part of our world now.
It's part of their future.
So we've gotta help themlearn how to use it.
We, we can't just.
Oh, they'll figure it outafter they're outta school.
No, that's not gonna go well.
Right.
So we've gotta help them.
Um, so tools like school AI andMagicStudent and MagicSchool, um, are
nice because the teacher curates whatthey're gonna experience in there.
(08:36):
Like you could use thesedifferent features in here and
then they get a lot of data back.
Afterwards, they could see theinteraction the student had with the ai.
So then they can also make surestudents are using it appropriately.
So it kind of providesthat, that safety net there.
And the goal there is to, tomeet the needs of every learner.
So that's what's really cool aboutAI is it's helping teachers be more
efficient, it's helping administratorsbe more efficient, but it's also
(08:58):
helping students have their needs met.
And see that as a normal thing to, to usetools to support them in being successful.
Rachel (09:05):
Well, your previous comment about teacher interaction with AI reminds
me of a, a reluctant group of teachersI was supporting and I was explaining
to them how they could take some ofthe heaviness off of their own plate
by using some prescriptive AI tools.
And a teacher, you could literally seea light bulb, uh, go on over her head
and she bursts out to the whole room.
(09:27):
Hey guys, this just gets us to thestudents and to the data quicker.
Why wouldn't we use this?
And I thought, that's great.
That should be a t-shirt, right?
It gets us to the studentsand the work, uh, quicker.
Yeah.
Jake (09:41):
It frees us up to do the work that the AI can't do.
Right, exactly.
And, and that's the workthat we should be doing.
And oftentimes it's the work that I, Iknow in my classroom, all of my years
in teaching, it's the kind of thingsI wasn't able to do, um, oftentimes
because I didn't have the time, Ididn't have the bandwidth to do it.
So the one-on-one conferencing, the,uh, small group instruction, the, you
know, working with kids on specificissues, the building of rapport, like
(10:05):
sometimes you don't have time for allof those really important steps or
the looking at data to, to your point.
Um, and AI could take some things kind ofoff of our plate so that we can do that.
So that's a really great, greatastute point by that teacher.
Christina (10:16):
So Jake, let's dig in a little bit to, um, personalized learning.
And can we just start with levelsetting maybe and telling us just
defining personalized learning.
Jake (10:25):
Yeah, so what I always tell teachers a about personalized
learning, Christina, you and I haveknown each other for a few years and
you know, I'm a story and anecdotes,person, story, stories, anecdotes,
and metaphors are how I operate.
So, uh, the way I now talk aboutpersonalized learning is, uh, about once
a week we have a salad night at our house.
We have three is my wifeand I, we three kids.
And, um, on salad night wesat out on the counter, a bag
(10:49):
of lettuce, a bag of spinach.
I cut up some tomatoes and some cucumbers.
We set out some olives, a coupledifferent salad dressings,
a couple kinds of cheeses.
Um, some shredded chickenand some pepperoni.
And then we say to our kids, goahead and, and make yourself a salad.
And we have to provide some oversightto make sure they make themselves
a good salad of an appropriatesize to get a good meal out of it.
But otherwise, they'reempowered to do it themselves.
(11:10):
And so.
That's kind of a reallysimplified way of, of how I think
about personalized learning.
It's that the teacher does the, thecuration of making sure the pedagogy
and the content is, is sound, butwe're empowering the learners to
make their own salad, I like to say.
Right.
So I've done some things like.
We know my daughter, for example, doesn'teat red meat, so I can't just put out
(11:32):
just pepperoni for the protein options.
I've gotta put out theshredded chicken, right?
So I've been intentional aboutwhat I do, but I don't tell
my son who loves red meat.
You can't put chicken on your salad.
He wants some chicken too, right?
So he, he might put somechicken and some pepperoni.
So it's me differentiating, understandingthe variability of my, my kids at
(11:52):
dinnertime or my wife understandthe , variability of the kids at
the dinnertime, but then empoweringthem to make that decision, right?
And so that's, that's kind of how I thinkabout personalized learning, is empowering
the kids to make some decisions, ontheir path to their version of success.
You know, what's the best wayfor them to be successful and,
and have a good salad, let's say.
When you think about the fact that, youknow, we put out spinach and lettuce
(12:13):
'cause my daughter prefers spinach.
We put out ranch and Italiandressing 'cause I can't eat
things with eggs in them.
So I have to have the Italian dressing.
We put out chicken and pepperoni 'causemy daughter doesn't eat red meat.
We're understanding the barriers in,in the, the salad options, right?
And so we're making sure that it'sdesigned so those barriers aren't there.
And I think.
(12:33):
AI can do that for us too, right?
There's so many ways that if we thinkabout the barriers that might present
themselves in a learning environmentor content or curricula, um, AI can,
can help us overcome those barriers.
Does that make sense?
Christina (12:48):
It does.
Yeah.
And I love that analogy.
Um, and you're, you are alwaysusing the food analogies.
It's always, I love this.
That's.
It really is.
So I like that.
You just touched on, you know,that intersection of personalized
learning and ai, which I kind ofwanna dive into in a little bit.
I've been listening to a lotof, just reading a lot from like
(13:10):
futurists and, and the trends thatthey're predicting in the future.
And I keep trying to dig into,well, what, what impact will this
have on the future of education?
How is that gonna change education?
And I keep reading about, it'scoming back to personalized learning.
Jake (13:26):
Mm-hmm.
Christina (13:27):
Um, so I'm wondering, um, how do you see AI playing a
role in personalized learning?
Jake (13:33):
Yeah, so the, the first and foremost reason and, and the one that's
already here is just the, the universaldesign for learning proponent of it
where we think about what's, what'snecessary for some, or essential for
some, they say in cast a lot, essentialfor some, but beneficial for all.
So for example, in a tool like,MagicSchool, you know, you've got
(13:54):
the ability to have the, , textleveled to different levels.
And so if kids can access textat different levels, right?
Or, uh, read aloud or talk to the builtin chat bot to get support, or if we could
use Diffit to make things, uh, translatethem or put them at different levels or.
Or use other tools to makeit more relevant to kids.
So that's kind of the front of theline stuff that's kind of already
(14:16):
here, is that we can make differentoptions for learners to learn from and
empower them to choose what they need.
I think what's coming more in thefuture is seeing, uh, the curricula
and the learning experiences be alittle more catered to our students.
I think one of the problems we see incontemporary schools is that school is
becoming less and less relevant to kids.
(14:38):
Right?
I, I think about when I was inschool, I was asking my teachers
a lot or wanted to ask my teachersa lot, why should I learn this?
I think nowadays that's evenamplified, especially when kids
have TikTok, uh, mindsets of howthey process information, right?
And one minute, little bursts andso things really need to be relevant
to them and connected to the thingsthey want to be, maybe when they
(15:00):
grow up or the ways they learn best.
And so we're starting to see sometechnologies that ha have the ability
to, to individualize curriculumand things like that for learners.
Like a lot of schools in Ohio are workingwith a company called SchoolJoy, , and
SchoolJoy actually crafts individualizedcurriculum for learners based on,
(15:21):
these are the learning standards.
Now for Christina, these are her interestsand it's gonna craft it to your interests.
And for Rachel, these are her interests.
So it's gonna craft it to your interests.
And I, I think the thing that always makesme nervous is we need to make sure there's
quality control with stuff like that.
But still, I think that's somethingwe're gonna see more and more of where
the curriculum really is directed tothe learner based on the learner's
(15:44):
interests and needs and things like that.
Yeah.
And I think we're gonnasee some crazy things.
And then, I don't even know what else, Imean, who, who could like you think about.
Where we were two years ago to wherewe are now with the things AI could do.
Yeah.
It's gonna be, it's gonna be crazy.
Rachel (15:57):
I feel like the natural sort of shift in this conversation then is
about teacher preparation and makingsure that teachers are equipped with
the knowledge that they need to usethe right tools in the right time.
And so I'm curious.
How you view the role of professionaldevelopment in ensuring that educators
feel confident to use AI toolsthat educators feel empowered and
(16:20):
they don't feel as though AI is,in some ways, saying that the art
of teaching doesn't have a place.
Mm. I mean, that's sortof where my head goes.
So I'd love to hear your visionof professional development
in the context of ai.
Jake (16:37):
So I think what I've learned over the years with professional
development is as much as I like tobe at the front of the room talking
and, and telling these metaphorsabout, about food and restaurants
and things like that, what reallyneeds to happen most in professional
development is teachers having time totry things out and teachers having time
to explore them and teachershaving time to set things up.
(16:59):
So I think that's the most importantpiece of a, of good professional
development is, is teacher just time.
Um, and the second mostimportant part is examples.
So much when we talk about personalizedlearning, for example, teachers are like,
well, Jake, this sounds great, and Iunderstand the whole idea of, of feeding
your kids different salads, but like,what does that look like in my classroom?
(17:19):
Right.
And they wanna see it.
And so I think the samething is true with ai.
They're like, what doesthis really look like?
So.
I think one of the best waysto make that happen is teachers
sharing with one another.
Right.
Teachers saying, this ishow I used MagicSchool.
This is how I used ChatGPT, thisis how I used Diffit, right.
To make my job easier.
So I think the two big pieces areseeing examples of it in use, um, and
(17:42):
having time to explore it and use it.
And then the third thing I'd putin there too, because, because
this is so overwhelming and scary.
For a lot of teachers, right?
I, I feel overwhelmed by AI sometimes,and I'm an, I'm an ed tech guy, right?
Like, this is what I'm intoand I'm overwhelmed by it.
So I think they justneed that direct support.
(18:03):
And I think a lot, for a lot of teachersthat might look like instructional
coaching, I think instructional coachingis a really, really strong opportunity for
them to, to grow and become comfortable,it's something that they're scared about.
And so if we have instructional coachesin place that also know about ai.
I think there's a lot of potentialthere to support our teachers.
Rachel (18:21):
And I also wonder, you know, we so often talk about differentiation for
students, but even as a professionaldeveloper myself, I'm often delivering
one size fits all professional learningto folks, and I am a strong proponent of
really developing pedagogical contentknowledge and giving math teachers
math PD so they can become thatstronger math experts and so forth.
(18:43):
So that's another way in which I wouldlike to see the use of AI sort of taken in
and is helping folks in my capacity thinkabout how can we leverage tools to make
pedagogical content knowledge an importantcomponent for teacher development.
Right?
Yeah.
Uh, and moving outside of sort of whatwe currently see as the PD landscape.
(19:03):
So,
Jake (19:04):
yeah.
And that's a great point because AIis beneficial for us as professional
development providers in the same way thatit's beneficial for teachers as content
providers to their students, right?
So we can go, like, I'm providing aPD on this skill and I have a group
of science teachers in there, um, anduse the AI to support us in kind of
crafting different versions of whatwe're sharing based on their needs.
(19:26):
And what I like to do is.
I, I find that the ai, I think,I'm sure everybody knows this by
now, but AI likes to just pretendit's right about everything.
Uh, and, and just spit out informationthat may or may not be accurate.
Like I coach my kids' basketball team andI tried one time to say, okay, I've gotta
develop who's gonna play in each quarter.
I've got this many kids.
(19:47):
Um, each kid needs toplay this many quarters.
These kids play these differentpositions and I like put it in.
I'm like, go ahead and make me a rotation.
And I go like, here's a rotation.
It's perfect.
And it would have like.
One kid playing two positionsin the same quarter.
And I'm like, ChatGPT, there's that.
That's one person.
He can't do that.
And it's like, oh, sorry, lemme try again.
And it does it again andit's the same thing again.
And I'm like, no, you're not doing well.
(20:08):
So.
When I think of doing things,especially serious things like
professional development or craftinglessons for a class or something
like that, I like to give it asmuch information as possible, right?
So I'm giving it articles and I'mexplaining things and I'm putting
all kinds of stuff in there soit's not inventing things so that
it's using things that I trust.
(20:28):
So I'm giving it, you know, maybecontent standards and maybe some
pedagogical knowledge and, and allkinds of, as much content as I can, uh,
to help it give me really good stuff.
Rachel (20:38):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, uh, what you get fromAI is only as good as the prompt
that you're able to provide.
Jake (20:44):
Yeah, for sure.
And that
Rachel (20:45):
is so critical and the feedback folks have watched over my shoulder,
like as I've been, you know, teachingpeople how to do particular things
and they'll notice that, you know, my
my chat bot is my friend.
I'll say, thank you so muchfor your contribution, but
here's where you fell short.
They're like, why are youtalking to it like that?
I'm like, I wanted to be my friend.
Right?
Oh, this is just such a rich conversation.
(21:07):
Jake, let's end here.
Um, let's end with a call to action.
So for educators who might feeloverwhelmed or unsure about
integrating AI into their teaching.
What's the best way forthem to get started?
Are there specific tools or resources thatyou would recommend them exploring first?
Jake (21:26):
So I think the first and most important thing is you don't
have to do it all at once, right?
Just, take a small step and, and, andthen take another small step after that.
Take another small step after that.
I like to talk about.
How, how we use the term baby stepsa lot and, and when we say baby
steps, what we mean is small steps.
But I think the other part thatwe're missing there is when a baby
learns to walk, they take smallsteps, but they also fall down a
(21:48):
lot and then they get right back up.
So when I think about babysteps, it's two things.
It's take small steps one step at atime, but it's also like be prepared
for something to not work out right.
And be ready to getback up and keep going.
So I think the baby steps isimportant to think about that.
Um, so think about like what's.
What's something whereyou could leverage ai?
What's a painful part of your maybe lessonplanning process or content creation or
(22:12):
a need you have in school for students?
So let's say for example, you havean article that's really important
that kids read in your class nextweek, but you know, it's above the
lexile level of, um, a quarter ofthe kids in your class and you don't
have time to make it fit that need.
But it'd be really great if youcould so use AI to do that, and
that's kind of your first step.
So you identified something that's achallenge for you right now, and then
(22:35):
that could be your first way you use ai.
Um, in terms of tools to use, Ithink even though ChatGPT is the,
the most well known one, and, and
one of the most capable ones, it could bea little bit overwhelming 'cause you just
go into it and you're, you're staring atthis black screen with a blinking cursor
and you're like, what do I tell it to do?
Uh, so I kind of like tools likeDiffit or MagicSchool to start with
(22:59):
just because you're like, oh yeah,here's a, here's a text leveler.
Like click on it and, andtell it the grade level.
I want this text and give it thelink so it's already ready for you.
It's already built for you.
Um, and so those are a greatkind of entry level tool.
And, and then you could keep usingthem forever too, but they're,
a great way to start off is withthose simpler tools like that.
Rachel (23:18):
I love that approach, you know, start small, but also that,
you know, realization that thiswon't be without its pitfalls.
Mm-hmm.
And so be ready to jump back up again.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, and keepthe work moving forward.
Well, Jake, we are so thankful foryour time today, and it was incredible
to just dip into your expertisefor, uh, these few short moments.
(23:38):
We, um, expect that we'll betalking to you more and more as
AI continues to grow and expand.
And as I remind people, um, don't belike those folks back in the, the good
old days when the internet was new,who said, I'm not learning that thing.
It's not here to stay.
Right.
You gotta Yeah.
Embrace it and, and, and learnabout it and, and, and move forward.
(23:59):
Right.
Thank you to our listeningaudience for tuning in today.
We certainly appreciateyour presence with us.
For Christina, this is Rachel.
Take some baby steps with ai.
Stay curious and keepthe conversation going.
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