July 25, 2025 • 40 mins
What happens when two education nerds talk books, buffaloes, and Brisk? In this special episode, I join Mike Brilla on The Inspired Teacher Podcast to discuss the role of AI in classrooms, building a professional learning community, and the adjacent possible. We get candid about cell phones, feedback, tech integration, and remembering our “why” as educators. Tools we mention include MagicSchool, Diffit, Claude, ChatGPT, and Brisk. You’ll laugh, reflect, and leave with ideas you can try tomorrow.
#EduDuctTape
This interview was originally aired on The Inspired Teacher by Mike Brilla. It is being re-aired here with his permission.
You can access the original episode here:
https://www.edupodcastnetwork.com/show/inspiredteacherpodcast/jake-is-here/
… and access other episodes of the show here:
https://www.edupodcastnetwork.com/show/inspiredteacherpodcast/
0:00:00 INTRO
0:02:35 The Inspired Teacher Podcast
0:04:33 Fresh Air at Five Bumper
0:04:53 Interview
0:07:07 Who is Jake?
0:10:11 What is Jake Reading?
- The Anxious Generation, by John Haidt - https://amzn.to/4o5f2Uv (affiliate link)
- Marching off the Map, by Tim Elmore - https://amzn.to/4kTSHX6 (affiliate link)
0:12:35 Reacting to Change in Education
0:19:06 The Adjacent Possible
- The Innovator’s Mindset, by George Couros - https://amzn.to/3IKgr2s (affiliate link)
0:22:53 How "Let Them" Impacts Teachers Learning from One Another
- The Let Them Theory, by Monica Robbins - https://amzn.to/46rVHGI (affiliate link)
0:25:12 Where is Jake Getting Inspiration & Ideas?
0:29:38 Talking about AI
0:36:19 A Final Piece of Advice
- “Know Your Why” - Michael Jr. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytFB8TrkTo
- Define Your WHY, by Barbara Bray - https://amzn.to/454T9Ma (affiliate link)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jake (00:00):
On this episode of The Educational Duct Tape Podcast,
I'm flipping the mic around.
I joined the Inspired Teacher Podcastto chat with Mike Brilla about AI and
education books we're reading Buffaloesand Storms, and Why Your Why matters.
We also unpack the adjacent possibleand how small steps spark big
innovation for you and your students.
(00:20):
Let's dig in.
Welcome folks.
Welcome into the EducationalDuct Tape Podcast.
Today, as I do occasionally, I'mgoing to share a conversation
that I had on a different podcast.
So every now and then I do an interviewon a friend's podcast, and afterwards
(00:42):
I go, wow, I really enjoyed thatconversation; I wanna make sure
Educational Duct Tape listeners hear that.
And that happened after this discussion.
And so I always ask in that situationif I could share it on my podcast too.
And the reason I do that, my hope is that,number one, you enjoy the conversation.
And number two, that you go andsubscribe to that other podcast.
(01:05):
So today's interview was an, uh,interview I did on the Inspired
Teacher Podcast hosted by Mike Brilla.
It was a couple weeks ago.
Mike is a social studies teacher anda wrestling coach in Pennsylvania.
And he hosts a podcast that,as the name states, is geared
towards inspiring educators.
And as a listener to Mike's show,I have to tell you: it does.
(01:26):
It's inspirational.
So I do hope you go subscribe, uh, but youdon't have to take my word for it on that.
You could just listen to this episoderight here of me on the Inspired Teacher
Podcast and make an informed decisionabout whether or not you wanna subscribe
and you're going to want to, it'slike a 40 minute trial subscription
right now that you're signing up for.
Before we get to that episode, uh,if you're a Google user and haven't
(01:49):
listened to my episode about Geminifor education, I highly recommend
you go back and tune into that.
Lots of updates.
They're not all out right now.
Some are forthcoming in the comingweeks and months, uh, but there's a
lot of stuff happening in their Geminifor Education announcement, so I
highly recommend you go back and tuneinto I believe it was episode 128.
And also, if you're a Google foreducation user in school, I highly
(02:13):
recommend you make sure you'resubscribed to the show because in my
next episode I'll be sharing about theupcoming updates to Google Classroom.
And again, there are a lot of updatescoming to a classroom, and I'll be
sharing that alongside a few othered tech updates so make sure you're
subscribed so you don't miss those.
Okay, well, without further ado, let'sget into my conversation with Mike
(02:33):
Brilla on the Inspired Teacher Podcast.
We learn and we think and we grow based onwhat ideas we expose ourself to, as well
as who, whose ideas and who's around us.
Right?
And who we're talking to,
Mike (02:46):
episode 2 63, Jake Miller is here.
Welcome to the Inspired Teacher.
A podcast meant to highlight small,useful nuggets of information that will
help us to be more mindful, present,and effective as educators and people.
(03:11):
Hey, I am so super excited tobring to you this next episode.
Um, and it's, it's a result of somediscussions and planning for the past.
Few
years on my part where I've been kickingaround the idea and telling myself and
others that I was gonna bring guestsonto the show and I was gonna start
to reach out and interview people.
Um, and my first interview wasgoing to be Chris Nesi, right?
The, the PodFather himself, the guy whoreally, um, along with James Stern and
(03:35):
really pushed me into, into doing this.
But one thing led to anotherand, and it didn't work out.
And, and I got another surpriseguest, really, for my first ever
interview, and it's, it's Jake Miller.
Um, and for those of you who don'tknow Jake, I introduce him a little
bit later in this podcast, but, um,I'm really excited to bring this one.
Now, I do have to admitsomething, um, my audio in the
interview, it doesn't sound great.
(03:57):
It sounds pretty terrible.
And, and I, it, the perfectionist sideof me is very annoyed and upset and the
thought is, man, I wish I could fix it.
Unfortunately, I just can't.
So, um, let's be honest, mostof you would rather listen to
Jake speak than me because.
He is the main star of this show.
Uh, our conversationswere all over the place.
We went from picking at Chris,uh, a little bit of baseball.
(04:18):
We talked about ai, we talked aboutbooks we're reading, we talked about,
um, dealing with kids, students,our own kids and teachers, and
where we get our inspiration today.
Uh, I really enjoyed theconversation I had with Jake
and I hope you enjoy listening.
So thanks for listening, everybody.
Bryon (04:33):
I am Bryon Carpenter, host of Fresh Air at five a part of
the Education Podcast Network.
Just like the show you're listeningto now, shows on the network are
individually owned and opinionsexpress may not reflect others.
Find other interesting educationpodcasts at edupodcastnetwork.com.
Mike (04:53):
Alright, so welcome back to the Inspired Teacher.
I'm Mike Brilla.
I'm excited to have my first guest on thisiteration of the podcast and it's, it's
Jake Miller and, and for those of you who
have been living under a rockand maybe don't know who he is.
He's a host of, host ofEducational Duct Tape podcast.
He's an author, he is aspeaker, he is a presenter.
Um, and he's an all around,pretty entertaining and great guy.
So Jake, thank you somuch for, for coming on.
Jake (05:15):
Thanks for, thanks for having me on.
Mike.
Mike, I've been following theInspired Teacher show for a while
and I didn't, I didn't realizeI was the first guest though.
I, like, I send you a message.
I'm like, Hey, I'd love to be on the show.
I didn't realize.
I was like, Hey, I would love for youto have guests on your show, Mike,
and I'd love to be the first one.
Mike (05:31):
So full disclosure, we were talking before this.
Um, Chris Nessie is, wewe're mutual friends in-laws.
Chris has been pushing me to, to getguests on for some time and, and I
feel like Chris might become, um,if you've ever watched, uh, oh gosh,
what, what, what late night show?
Is that where they wouldbump Matt Damon all the time?
Jake (05:47):
Oh, is that on?
Uh, that's on Kimmel, isn't it?
Mike (05:49):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I feel Chris and I have planned podcastslike two or three times, and we both.
This can't seem to get it to work out.
So Chris was gonna be the first,but then by default it's you.
Jake (06:00):
Sorry, Chris, the pod, the PodFather.
I've offended the PodFather.
Yeah, he's gonna make mean offer I can't refuse.
If I wake up and there's a,there's a bloody podcast microphone
in my bed, I'll be worried.
Mike (06:13):
Exactly.
That's a little
Jake (06:14):
godfather joke.
I apologize for anybody whowas caught off guard by that.
Mike (06:19):
A Yankees logo on it or something.
Jake (06:20):
Right.
There will be a Yankees logo on it.
Mike (06:23):
That's perfect.
Jake (06:24):
That's what would offend me the most.
'cause I'm a, I'm aCleveland Guardians fan.
Like I'd be okay with the microphonebut get the Yankees logo outta here.
Mike (06:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's what Chris and Ilike to go back and forth.
I'm, I'm a Phillies fan, so I assume
Jake (06:35):
Yeah,
Mike (06:35):
we give it to each other just a little bit, so.
Alright.
So.
Regardless of how much fun it is tomake fun of Chris and, and, and talk
baseball, that's not why we're here.
Right.
So, right.
So I guess one of the things that, that I,and this is on my old iterations podcast.
I used to always ask this when I coachwrestling and we, we worked with this
group of people called Wrestling Mindset,and they had this, this line where they
(06:56):
would say like, the best warriors, themost, most successful people always knew
who they were and what they stood for.
I just loved it.
I never thought about that ascoaching and teaching and I
kind of thought about that one.
So, you know, for those ofyou, us who, who don't know,
just the surface level, like.
Who are you and why?
Why are you here?
Jake (07:14):
So I am like an education nerd.
Like, I don't know what's happenedto me, Mike, but like I, all of
my thoughts relate to education.
Like when I read books, likeit's summertime right now.
So we go to our, we go, we belongto a lake, we go to the lake.
My wife brings her like romance novel,and my daughter brings her romantasy
novel, uh, and my son brings his mangaand my oldest son brings his phone.
(07:38):
Not a book, I bring an education book.
Like that's what I'm always doing.
So I, I don't know when this happenedto me that it became my passion just
to always think about education.
It was funny because, you know, I, thisis year, I think 23 in education for me.
And when I was like, uh, six or sevenyears in or something like that, uh,
somebody told me like, Jake, you needto go work on getting your master's now.
(08:01):
Like you, you, you've gotta do itfor your continuing credits just to
keep your license, uh, and renew it.
It moves you up on the steps on thepayroll, and by the time you get enough
steps to be at the, at your max, youmight as well just have your master's.
So just go ahead and get your master's.
Right.
And I'm like, I don't evenknow what I wanna study.
Like, I, I thought when I graduatedfrom college with my bachelor's, I was
(08:22):
like never going to step in a classroomthat I wasn't teaching in again.
Um, and then I, so I went back and gotit in educational technology and wasn't
even feeling like a fire about it.
At that point.
I was like, I, I like to use tech.
I'm good at tech.
Um, I, that's where I'llget my, my license in.
And then at some point intime I started helping.
I had to, as part of that program,had to start helping teachers out
(08:43):
with technology and found like howmuch I loved supporting teachers.
Like, like just through like doingthis thing that I kind of had to do.
I was like, man, I, I reallyenjoy helping these teachers out.
And so as time has gone on, thathas kind of evolved into helping
them like pedagogically too, right?
And in other ways outside of technology.
So I, I guess, who am I, as justthe guy who's passionate about
(09:04):
good education, which is a hard,that's a hard person to be in 2025.
A person who's passionateabout good education
Mike (09:13):
for sure.
Um.
I, that's how, you know, I cameacross you through, uh, the, the
whole Google Teacher podcast thing.
Yeah.
And I, I was, for a couple years, I was, Iwas a, a teacher on special assignment for
education technology and like integratingit was when I, I was lucky or unlucky
enough, whatever you wanna call it.
And I started as a TOSA in2019 and then COVID hit.
(09:35):
So I went from, made fun of, Iwent from sipping coffee in the
hallways, talking to, to everybody.
So being like.
Massively busy.
Jake (09:42):
Yeah, right.
The beginning of that schoolyear, you were like, do you
wanna learn about Flipgrid?
Okay.
No.
All right.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, have a nice day.
Oh, you're, you're,you need a new charger.
Okay.
I can get you a new charger.
Um, or like the copier's broken, likeI guess I can look at it before I got
nothing else to do by the end of the year.
Just like your world's on fire, right?
Mike (10:00):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
It was such a, such a big change and, andso much of what, what you were saying has
kind of got, got me and got people throughthat and I appre, you know, I, I think
I'd be remiss to not thank you for that.
You were, you're definitely inspirational.
So I, I have to ask, I can't not ask.
What are you reading right now?
Jake (10:15):
So currently I'm reading, um, what's the name of it?
Oh, the Anxious Generation.
So, uh, Kasey Bell, uh, who, you know fromprobably Shake Up Learning and back in the
day she did the Google Teacher Podcast.
Um, she does a book study on it andthe, The book has been on my shelf.
Like you, you could seefortunately there's no video, uh,
Mike for this podcast episode.
(10:35):
'cause I was just working in theyard, um, on our sprinkler system.
And I, I look like it.
Um, but what you could see isa bunch of books behind me.
There's constantly, there's pilesbehind my chair that you can't see.
So I've constantly got like abacklog of books I wanna read.
And that was in there.
And she had the book study launchinga couple weeks ago and I was like,
you know what this, that's, I wantto learn how she does book study.
(10:56):
I wanna read this book.
It's perfect timing.
I wanna be part of the communitythat's doing this book study.
So I started reading that andI'm about 40% of the way through.
Um, I wanna say I'm loving it.
But it's, it's kind of a, a, it'sa frustrating and depressing book.
Do you know, do you knowthe Anxious Generation book?
Have you heard about it?
Mike (11:12):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I read it.
Yeah.
Jake (11:14):
Yeah.
And so I am finding it very compellingand well written and informative
and a good read, but it, it isreally bumming me out right now.
So I hope the last half ofthe book is a pick me up.
It,
Mike (11:27):
it gets better.
It does, but I, I, I rememberthinking the same thing.
I have two boys.
My oldest is going into 10th grade, myyoungest is going into seventh grade.
Jake (11:34):
Yeah.
Mike (11:34):
I remember thinking like, oh my gosh, I screwed these kids
up before I could even realize it.
Jake (11:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I feel the same.
My kids are in the same kind of age range,and it's like, you, you just, you didn't
screw up, you just followed the flow.
Right.
And like, I know, I was even moreprohibitive than most parents.
My wife and I were more prohibitive thanmost parents, but still allowed them
to have access to, to the technologiesof the phones and stuff like that.
And I'm like, man, you,you could just see.
(11:59):
Um, it's kind of like watching one ofthose superhero movies or whatever.
That's an origin story, right?
And you're like, oh, now I see wherethis superhero feature came from.
You read the anxious generation,you're like, now I see why my
kids are the way my kids are.
And I'm like, Ugh, it's hard.
Or, or my students are too.
Like, those are my other kids.
You know, the, the kids at school.
Um, you see it there too.
(12:21):
And, and your teachers talkabout like the kids these days
stuff or like, they're not.
They're not as motivated ornot as into school or whatever.
They tune out quickly and you'relike, well, I can tell you why.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, and so, yeah, that's hard.
Mike (12:35):
So, I, I read a book not too long ago.
I dunno if you ever readMarching Off the Map, it's called
Jake (12:40):
No, I never heard of it.
Mike (12:41):
Sub title.
It's a great one.
I, I'll see if I, I, I. Get you thetitle, the official title and the author.
Yeah.
But this was even before COVID hitand they were talking, the authors
were talking about how, excuse meabout, we have two choices now.
Like we can be like the, the angry sailorshaking his hand at the, in the winds
who are facing the wrong direction.
Right.
Adjust sails.
(13:01):
Right.
And I feel like that's what thatbook, you know, for some, the first
half that I did feel like that angrysailor like darn kids these days.
And I found myself like,but it does get better.
Jake (13:12):
Yeah, I think that's all, that's kind of always been, the way I've
thought about stuff in education is,is, you know, when you talk to those
teachers 15 years ago or whatever itwas when I was talking about Google for
education, when it was kind of all comingout, like, these things are coming.
If you wanted to shake your fistat it, that's fine, but it's
gonna go right past you, you know?
Um, and, and so nowadays with ai,that's, that's kind of the message
(13:35):
that I've, I've had, I've never heardthat specific one from that book,
but that's kinda the way it goes.
I talked about, uh, recently onthe Educational Duct Tape podcast,
this idea of Buffalo and Cowswhen a storm is approaching.
And I think this might actually be amyth, don't tell the listeners of the
Educational Duct Tape Podcast, buteverything I could find online said it
was true, except for some people werelike, I live on the Great Plains and
(13:55):
I've seen Buffalo and I've seen cows, andthey do not do these, these behaviors.
So I don't know.
We'll see.
I I've not talked to like a zoologistand asked him this question, but the,
the story is this guy Rory Vaden, uh,was the first person I saw write about
or speak about it, and he talks abouthow when a storm is approaching a cow
runs away from it and it ultimatelyends up in the storm regardless
'cause they can't outrun it, it just endsup in it for longer 'cause it's running
(14:18):
parallel to it, in the same direction asit whereas a buffalo will run towards the
storm and because they're running towardsit, number one, they get to it sooner.
And number two, they're runningin the opposite direction of it.
So they get through it faster, sothey spend less time in the storm.
Now I, again, I don't know if that'stechnically true, but that's what he says.
And I think that's areally strong metaphor for.
Technology and AI and stuff like that,we can't, we can't run away from it.
(14:39):
It's gonna get to us no matter what.
Uh, we've gotta plan effectivelyand run towards it and handle it.
Now, unfortunately, with cell phonesand stuff like that, with anxious
generation and social media, um.
We, we didn't plan out how to,how to handle it as a, as a
society of parents and educators.
Um, we just kind of letthat storm come at us.
(15:01):
I don't know if we, I dunno if we ranto it or away from it or what we did,
but, but we are in that storm and sonow we've gotta, we've gotta react now.
Mike (15:09):
I feel like we, we hunkered down and, and
Jake (15:11):
yeah,
Mike (15:12):
some of us were caught by surprise and some of us
just watched that approach and
Jake (15:15):
Right, but you can remember, I can remember the educators and, and
speakers in the education space thatwere like, kids should have blogs,
kids should have Twitter accounts, kidsshould start be making their brand.
You know?
And I was like.
I don't know.
Like I, like I ne I never wasfully on that bandwagon, but I also
wished I was pushing back on it.
Like in, in retrospect, I wish Ipushed back on that stuff more.
(15:38):
We're rushing these.
Um, not fully evolved brains into,into the social media landscape.
And so yeah, those, those peopleI think were wrong, but I was
also wrong for not, not realizingthe, the ills of social media.
You did not have plan to go heretoday with this conversation?
No,
Mike (15:58):
I was always one, I was like one of those early adopters.
Like I would like run headlong into it.
I was like, the buffalo,I would run right to it.
Yeah.
I, I could like, I remember the earlydays of Glogster and I remember, yeah.
Trying, like getting kids tobring phones to school and just
the novelty of it and Yeah.
You know, I think sometimes mybig thing was I, I focus too much
on the novelty and the, the, thegadget and less about the goal.
Jake (16:21):
Yeah.
Mike (16:21):
That's where you helped me so much.
Jake (16:23):
Hmm.
Well thanks.
Ironic.
I was with a, uh, a friend of mine who's,he's now a district level admin, but he
used to be, the last year he was a highschool principal and he and I back in
the day were on our district's, uh, veryfirst like tech leadership team, we called
ourselves, but we just would get togetherevery couple months and have discussions
about technology and, and to like drivethe district's vision with technology.
(16:43):
And back then when we were on thatteam, we're like, we need to let kids
have cell phones and set up policiesfor when they could have 'em out
and when they can't have 'em out, bevery clear about the policies, but allow
them because there's so much power inthis technology, but that was before
Chromebooks and things like that.
Um, and then I was visiting hishigh school recently that he was
a principal at, and he was like,yeah, we don't let kids bring
(17:05):
their cell phones to class anymore.
I was like, how ironic that you and Iare having this conversation 12 years
after we were pushing everybody toget 'em, but now they don't need them
anymore because we've got the one-to-onedevices that we can control and we could,
you know, make sure they're doing theright things for getting benefits from.
Yeah, but I think, I also think wedidn't realize, we, we didn't see
the wave of, of social media coming.
(17:25):
Yeah.
Mike (17:26):
No.
And had the adic, the addictiveness of it.
Yeah,
Jake (17:29):
for sure.
Mike (17:30):
Crazy to me, like yeah, I remember.
That's funny.
We called it the, thetechnology leadership team too.
We had, we had like denimembroidered shirts that people
got and they got the first laptopsin the district and everything.
It was a, so we had the same, and,and I can remember, I, I kind of
got, I. Some pushback recentlybecause we, we, two years ago now
I think was when we switched, wewent back to banning cell phones.
Yeah.
And I was one of the ones like,nah, we gotta get 'em in there.
(17:51):
Same thing as you.
No.
They need to use device.
And then people were like, weren't youthe one who has bargained for it before?
And it's changed.
The landscape has changed.
Jake (17:59):
Yeah.
Right.
Oh, I used to think, I used to think theyneed to have them so that they can learn
how to kind of ignore them or whatever.
What learn how to be successfulwith them in their pocket.
Like we are, like, we try to be as adults.
Um.
But as the years have gone on, I'verealized how addictive they are.
Um, and that, you know, we, weneed to actually just take them
(18:19):
away from 'em during class.
So my, my son's high school, theyput them in pockets at the front of
the room as they enter the classroomand pick 'em back up on the way out.
I think that's probablywhere I think is the ideal.
I, I wish they didn't havethem in between class changes.
I wish they were just interactingin person during class changes,
but I know some parents reallywant the kids to have them.
Yeah.
And so I think that'sthe right way to do that.
(18:40):
I, I, I know some schools do thosepouches that automatically lock,
um, and I'm not opposed to that.
That's just, that's just abig expense to the school.
So I think I prefer just thepouches in the front of the
classroom that they drop 'em in.
Mike (18:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I, I have a friend who's a principalthat told me, he's like, I don't, I don't.
I just want the kids to have thecourtesy to pretend like they don't
have 'em with them at the very Right.
Just keep it sign from us.
Yeah.
Alright.
Not to get too far down the cell phoneand, and the, the technology rabbit hole.
I wanna kind of make sure, yeah.
Because I had to give you the, a lotof what I have done over the past
few years has come as a result oflistening to, to you and reading you
(19:13):
and, and one of the things that youtalk so much about that really truly
helped me that this adjacent possible.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so can you, can you talk a littlebit about like what, what it is and
how, how, how you came upon this idea.
Jake (19:24):
So I first heard of it reading the book, the Innovator's
Mindset by George Couros.
I think he's the first personto talk about it from kind of
like, um, an educational sense.
But it came from, first it was anevolutionary biologist that talked
about it, and then it got pickedup by a guy in between who talked
more about the spreading of ideas.
Right.
But, but where it came from, from anevolutionary biologist standpoint is
(19:48):
the realization that life on Earthevolves kind of step by step by being
exposed to what's around it, right?
So you couldn't go from singlecelled organism to human, right?
There had to be steps in between.
And if you look kind of at theevolutionary patterns, there's some
kind of jumps, obviously, uh, withdinosaurs and things like that.
(20:12):
But if you really zoom in, you realizethings evolve from one step to the
next step, to the next step spreadingoutward, but based on what it's exposed to
and so then what that becamewas how ideas are spread, right?
So we learn and we think, and wegrow based on what ideas we expose
ourselves to, as well as who, whoseideas and who's around us, right?
(20:33):
And who we're talking to.
So it's so important that we're outthere kind of rubbing elbows with our
colleagues and other teachers, andthat's where I really picked up on it is.
If you don't talk to the teachers aroundyou about education and if you don't go to
conferences or get on social media, thatwas kinda the reason I was first talking
about mostly is the social media idea.
Um, if we're not exposing ourbrains to the brains of other
(20:54):
educators, we're losing out on ideas.
And, and I think it rings truein what teachers do because every
time a teacher goes somewhere.
So we've got teachers listening whoare on summer break and last week they
were on vacation somewhere or at thezoo or at a park or something with
their kids or something like that, andthey saw something wherever they were
that reminded of something they taught
(21:16):
and gave them a new ideaof how to teach it, right?
That's just what we do as teachers.
You're like at the, at the grocery storeand you see something, you're like,
oh, that could change how I have kidshand in papers or something, right?
Like, we're just always thinking ofthings from our classroom mindset, and
that to me is adjacent possible, right?
That idea couldn't have happened.
If you hadn't put yourself inthat space to see that happen.
(21:38):
Right?
So our ideas grow based on whatwe, what we see, what we do, who we
talk to, who we share ideas with.
So if I share an idea with you,you're gonna go like, oh, well that's
cool, but what if you did this right?
And like, I wouldn't havethought of that myself.
I needed to talk to you aboutit to get that idea there too.
And the other piece is you'vegotta try things, right?
You've gotta go, like, you're notgonna get that idea for how to
(21:59):
use, let's say, Padlet until yougo try Padlet for the first time.
Right?
You've gotta like dabble with it, right?
And those ideas expand outwards.
So nowadays with ai.
Um, a teacher who's never used AIis probably not gonna have this
earth shattering realization of howthey could use Claude or ChatGPT.
(22:20):
They've kind of gotta start with somethinglike MagicSchool that kind of really
helps 'em just like tiptoe into ai andthen that adjacent possible, okay, you've
tried doing this little thing with it.
Now let's see what ideas come out of that.
And it just ripples outward andthat's the adjacent possible.
So there's a lot of ways to think aboutit, but really for me, it's sharing ideas
(22:41):
with each other, sharing our ideas withother people, and taking steps, just
a step outside of our comfort zone totry little things and see kind of drop
by drop, where that expands out to.
Mike (22:53):
I, I think as you were talking, I was going through
thinking my own past too.
And, and one of the things that, that,that, that adjacent possible, has helped
me to, to, to do is, um, sometimes,you know, I, I will admit, I'm, I am.
The whole comparison is a thief of joy.
That idea, uh, I am one of thosepeople who I compare myself
(23:13):
sometimes too, too often to others.
Hmm.
And like, oh my gosh, I'll never do this.
Or look at that person.
And, and social media was reallygood for me at some points to
help me with getting the ideas.
Mm-hmm.
But it was also, it could be.
Horrible for me because it'slike I put pressure on myself.
And I think, you know, I just talkedto, not too long ago, I was talking
to you about like the whole, theMel Robbins book that she's got, the
(23:34):
whole Let Them Thing right now, andshe, she reframed it as, um, how you
can use, um, comparison to help you.
Right.
And I think it's, that's the same ideathat adjacent possible, it's, it's
looking at what people do and in anonjudgmental way for you or the others.
Is that
Jake (23:53):
kind of what Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love that and, and.
Yeah, that's a good point because youcan't, like, if you look at somebody
who's doing something, like look atthat teacher down the hallway who's
teaching, everybody know, like that'sthe best teacher in the school.
Everybody wants theirkid to have that class.
And like when the, when the principaltalks at the staff meeting, that's
the teacher they're talking about.
It's never me.
They're talking about it,but like, why aren't you?
Why don't we look to them?
(24:13):
Let them kind of come up withthose amazing ideas, see that,
and see how we could use it in our space.
Is that kind of what she's saying there?
Mike (24:21):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And how do you make it your own?
Like how do you, and I think that'swhere your adjacent possible thing
was for me, was so enlightening.
'cause it's like, yeah, I'mnot gonna be able to do.
Like, what, what youdo or what Kasey Bell.
Exactly.
I can't do it becauseI'm not that same person.
So do it in a way that makes sense to you.
Jake (24:38):
Yeah.
Right.
And that's, that's part of thereason, like I mentioned her book
study, that's part of the reasonI'm participating in her book study.
'cause I'd like to get involved inrunning some book studies myself
'cause I read so much and I lovetalking about what I'm reading.
Um, and I was like, I don't, I'venever run a book study before.
Let me see how she does it.
Right.
And it's not like, yeah.
Stealing somebody's ideasor something like that.
It's, it's just learning from each other.
(24:59):
Um, I think there's so much to learnfrom the way what other people do things.
And it's, it's interesting because weall do things our own way, but we have
to see those, the way those people doit, to be inspired by it, you know?
Mike (25:11):
Yeah.
So, so where are you?
You know, for so long we were all gettingour inspiration on Twitter, right?
We were all having those Twitter chats.
We were, we were, social media was.
The, the good side of it.
So, so where are, are you connectingwith educators or are you still,
or has it become more of a,uh, face-to-face thing again?
Jake (25:29):
Yeah, so, well, I, I love Bluesky and I want Bluesky to be that place.
That's actually where we weremessaging was on Bluesky.
Yeah.
I felt like there was a lot ofenergy around Bluesky, right around
like January, 2025.
Um, and a lot of teachers moving to there.
And I thought that was gonna be the place.
And I, and now I don't thinkit's gonna be, there's just
(25:50):
like not a lot happening there.
There's no negativity, right?
Right.
There's, there's honestywithout negativity.
Um, and there's, there are someeducators there, but there's just not
a lot of community happening there.
And so I don't, I'm bummed 'causeI, I was, hope I was really wishful.
Um, I don't think it'll be the place.
Where I'm getting the most actually.
So in my, my day job now, i'm notin a classroom or at a school.
(26:11):
I work for an educational service center.
So here in Ohio we have, um,they used to be county by county.
Now they're bigger than county by county,but we have educational service centers.
Every school district has to be aligned toone of them, use them for some services.
They use them for some of theirprofessional development service.
I work really involved with likefour different school districts,
but then there's a couple otherones that I'm with occasionally.
(26:32):
So maybe like seven or eightdifferent school districts.
So in a given week, in five days, I couldbe in upwards of like 10 different schools
within a week working with teachers.
Sometimes I'm observing in classrooms,sometimes I'm meeting with them.
And so that's where I'm getting it from.
It's just those conversations withteachers or time in classrooms,
which is interesting 'cause thatreally is adjacent possible.
(26:54):
Right.
Because I'm going in there andI'm, I'm hearing how a first grade
teacher's teaching and how a, how a12th grade teacher's teaching and how
it's happening in this classroom andhow it's happening in that classroom.
And I'm, I'm just hearing all thesedifferent ideas and seeing these things,
and it's like every time I'm talking tothose teachers or in those classrooms,
those synapses are firing, right?
Where it's like, oh, I didn'tthink about doing it that way.
Or, oh, look at how they're organizingthis, or look at how they're,
(27:15):
they're doing this, or look at howthey're using that tool, right?
So I'm getting it actually from beingin the classrooms with people, but I
think it's, it's important to note.
That different people like, I thinkwe all have to have that way that
we're learning about things and beinginspired by other, other educators.
And it's different for everybody.
Like some of us it's books.
Some of us it's podcasts, some of usit's social media, like there's, there's
(27:38):
still lots of educators sharing amazingthings on tikTok and Instagram and
Facebook and Twitter and Bluesky andname your social media and Pinterest.
And sometimes it's email newsletters.
Sometimes I said it's books,sometimes it's going to conferences.
Sometimes just talking tothe teachers you work with.
Um, there are a lot of different optionsand there's no right or wrong one, but I
(27:59):
think we all kind of need our need, ourcommunity of educators, you know, to get
ideas from and, and to feel a part ofthat community too, I think is important.
Mike (28:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's one thing I got wrong whenI was, I. When I first had kids, I
remember like, my goal was to take nowork home, so I would shut my door.
Like every moment I had, I wasgrading and doing everything.
And you lose that community.
Jake (28:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I, I hate to say takethe work home, but Right.
But I also hate to say, shut your doorand don't talk to the other teachers.
Right.
Mike (28:30):
Yeah.
Well, it's a choice, right?
It's a, and, and like I knowthere's some teachers who, who,
there's, there's people who.
You know, you can see'em on social media now.
Like they all, they're all aboutlike, you work till your hours
and don't give anything more like.
I have no problem taking work homeif it means I get to go take a walk
for 10 minutes during the day orI get to just go talk to somebody.
Jake (28:48):
Yeah.
I find that I don'ttake a lot of work home.
I take a lot of thinking about work home.
Uh, and not in a bad way.
I mean, I, I, I mean just whether it'sreading a book or listening to a podcast
or, or you know, talking to somebody likeyourself, uh, and talking about this stuff
and that, that's the stuff that's more,
more pleasurable for me.
'cause that's the, uh,that's not the work.
(29:08):
That's the, that's the mission.
You know what I mean?
Like, so I, what I'm taking homeis the mission of education.
What I'm doing during myworking hours is the work.
So that's what I'd like tosee for teachers, right?
Is that the grading of papers and theplanning of lessons happens between eight
and three or whatever your workday is.
But, but there's more of themission of thinking about teaching
outside of there, the stuff that.
The reason we're in the profession,you know, um, outside of that time.
(29:32):
And that's where, that's where podcastslike your, like yours are, are nice
because it brings that opportunity in.
Mike (29:36):
Yeah.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
So, so one of the things you'vementioned earlier, I don't think
anybody's heard about this thing calledAI lately, but, uh, you talk about
using ai, um, and, and it's funny, um.
You, you, you mentioned the three that,like MagicSchool, Claude, ChatGPT like
I, I I'm in each of those and, andto continue with your animal metaphor
from earlier I read, um, Doris KearnsGoodwin wrote a book about, she's
(30:00):
called a leadership in turbulent times.
Okay.
She's talking LBJ, Lyndon Baines Johnson.
And how he.
He was a great leader because of, um, hewas a cowboy when he was younger, and she
said, you know, he, he used to have thisstory where he said, like, when your, when
your cow gets stuck in the mud, like a cowhand has to get in the mud and get muddy
with the cow to help it lead its way out.
(30:20):
Yeah.
So that's kinda like, Itook, I'm like, I love that.
Like get muddy with your students.
So like that's, I dove headfirstinto MagicSchool and Chat GPT.
Ai, what, what do you, what advicemight you have for people who are like a
little hesitant to, to embracing AI or,
Jake (30:36):
yeah.
Mike (30:37):
First of all, from it, I should say.
Jake (30:39):
Yeah.
First of all, I love that metaphorbecause it's, it's funny that I,
I, I, I'm guilty of it myself.
There's been times in teaching in theclassroom or in professional development
too, where a student is strugglingand unable to grasp the concept or
learn the skill or master the skill.
And I'm trying, I I'm notin the mud with them, right?
(30:59):
I'm trying to do it from the frontof the classroom and like, like,
just like kind of shaking my headgoing like, why don't they get it?
Like, I, I need, you need to get in themud with them and help 'em out there.
So that's really apowerful metaphor there.
I think the most importantthing with AI is.
And it's, it's what I've alwaystalked about on my podcast with with
Educational Duct Tape, is the ideaof looking at it as a tool, right?
You don't have to start usingAI just to start using ai.
(31:24):
Think about where that can helpyou or your learners, where that
could benefit you or your learners.
So one of my favorite things about AI isthe, the way it can, um, make learning
more accessible, like the universalDesign for learning aspects of it.
So you take a tool like diffit, forexample, or MagicSchool . And look at
how it could change reading levels ofcontent or translate content or make
(31:46):
content more relatable to students.
Things like that.
And like, if that's an area of needfor you, that's a good spot to start
trying things like that out there.
Because number one, that brings you intothe adjacent possible, okay, I've used
AI in this one way and now that's gonnahelp me see that what's next to me?
What, what these adjacentpossibilities are for use of ai.
But I'm also doing it ina way that's impactful.
(32:08):
It's not just another thing.
It's achieving a problem for me.
So think about like, what's, what'ssomething that you'd like to see fixed
in your classroom or go more smoothlyor make better for your students or
make more efficient for yourself.
Um, talk to somebody who knows ai.
Maybe your building tech coach oryour tech director or somebody like
that, and ask them, or your TOSA,how, what can I, what can, how
(32:32):
can I use AI to help me with this?
They're gonna know the answer.
You're gonna go learn how to do that.
It's gonna be impactful in your practice.
And then you're gonna go like, oh.
I bet it could help with this too.
Right?
So you go to use it to lower yourreading level of your content and
you're like, oh, I bet it can helpthat English language learner too.
Uh, yeah, it can, right?
And so then you're gonna try thatout and you're like, oh, well this
(32:54):
kid who's got issues with executivefunctioning and struggles with really
large projects, I wonder if it couldbreak that down into pieces for them.
Well, yeah, it can.
Right?
And then you start to see the power of it.
And there certainly are dangers with ai,but at least you're seeing that power
because, because to your point earlier,um, we can't just stand on the shore
and shake our fist at the storm, right?
(33:15):
We've gotta, we've gotta accept that thestorm is coming, those waves are coming
and, and turn the ship to go with it.
Um, but there's no reason.
We just have to accept it doingeverything, you know, we could be
very mindful about it and use itin ways that are impactful for us.
Yeah.
Mike (33:29):
It's funny you mentioned Diffit.
Diffit was like mygateway into same thing.
It was struggling readers.
It was, I had a girl who, who was from,from, um, Brazil only spoke Portuguese.
So, and, and, and like once,it just, it opens your eyes to
all the possibilities, right?
Helping those individual students.
'cause you know, we can'tmultiply ourselves, but we can
make our, our lives a lot easier.
Jake (33:50):
Right.
Yeah, and maybe it's something likethat that makes it easier for the kids.
Maybe it's something that makes iteasier for the teacher too, like,
like you look at, brisk is anotherone that I think is a great entry
aI tool for teachers.
It does a lot of that accessibilitykind of stuff too, that universal
design for learning kind of stuff.
But it also has that thing where it cangenerate feedback on student writing.
Now, I, I know the best case scenario isthe teacher gives all the feedback I. But
(34:14):
I also know that that's a, like to yourpoint earlier of not taking work home,
I know it's really tough for teachers togenerate all of that feedback and do it in
a timely fashion and a thoughtful fashion.
So yes, I'd love for the teachers tobe doing feedback, but I also know
they, they can't possibly do all of it.
Um, so a lot of teachers arereally into using Brisk to
generate feedback for learners.
(34:34):
And so that's a way to like dip yourtoes into the water of AI and kind of
realize that adjacent possible, becauseit's hard until you get in there to even
understand what it could do for you.
Mike (34:44):
Yeah.
Now, and I, you brought up, I, there'sa tool, and this is terrible, I can't
even remember the name of it rightnow, but I, I started using it at the
end of last year where I could put,like, I could dump, I teach social
studies, I dumped the primary resource.
I, I could ask questions, andthen the AI gave kids feedback.
Based on what I told 'em.
Mm. Like, here are the success parameters.
(35:04):
Yeah.
And it gave them feedback andit was kind of, it was powerful.
Like yeah.
The feedback was nothing likewhat I would give, but at least
it gave us a conversation place.
So somewhere you could start,
Jake (35:12):
right?
Yeah.
It, it, you could use that as, as, uh, arough draft of the feedback for yourself.
Like it, it does the beginning workand then you take it from there.
Or you could use it here and there.
Like if you think of a studentworking on a writing piece that's
gonna take them a week to write.
It'd be great if they got feedbackon their writing each of those five
days of that week, but that's notfeasible for the teacher to do.
(35:35):
So what if the AI does itsome of those days, you know?
Mike (35:39):
Yeah.
It's, I, I think it is one of thegreatest time savers you can have, and,
and, you know, I, I found myself nowusing it for help generate lesson ideas.
Or even last week, my, my wife andmy older son were having quite an
animated discussion about his onlineclass he's taking this summer and
like I was going to ChatGPT andlike act as if you're a motivational
(36:00):
interview, how would you approach that?
It's just, it's, it's, it'sgot great possibilities.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, so I wanna be mindful oftime and, and, you know, let you
get back out to your sprinklers.
Jake (36:12):
I don't want to go back out.
Let's talk about again,
Mike (36:17):
um, what.
Before we go, one of the things Ialways like to try and do is end, end
with like something, just somethingspecific, a piece of advice you know,
that some, a teacher can try or remember.
Um.
Just that make things alittle less overwhelming.
So is there, is there just a, a littletip, a reminder, whatever it might be.
You know, we talked about beingeducation nerds, reading books,
(36:39):
ai, we we're all over the place.
Um, is there one little, just little tipyou can give to help those people who are
maybe are feeling overwhelmed or feelinga little, um, like these kids these days?
Jake (36:48):
Yeah, I think.
Right now, so it'ssummertime we're doing this.
Most people will listento this in the summer.
I know there's a long tail on podcasts.
There's somebody listening tothis right now in April of 2027.
Like they are like, it, it'shappening, but, but most people
are listening to it right now.
So as we're in our summer mindset andwe're preparing for a new school year, I
also know that some people might not be inthe, in the, in America or might have a.
(37:10):
Be, um, year round school.
But regardless, most of the listenersare preparing, they're enjoying their
summer break and in a couple months, Iknow I shouldn't talk about Bruno, but
they're gonna, they're preparing to goback to school here in a couple months.
I think as we start back to theschool year, it's important.
I'm not even gonna giveed tech advice here.
It's important to think aboutyour why, because it's, it's
tough to be a teacher in 2025.
(37:31):
Um, there's a lot of stuff going on,not just ai, but in budget ways, in
political ways, in society, ways.
There's a lot, it's, it's tough to bea teacher right now, so I think it's
important to think, to remember our why.
Um.
I think this first came out in a bookby Barbara Bray, it might be called
Find Your Why or Start With Why.
Uh, I haven't read thebook, but I've met Barbara.
(37:52):
She's a wonderful woman.
Um, and there's this, this, um, videothat she talks about in the book.
I, I saw it in a presentation first.
I think it came, first came fromher, this guy named Michael Junior.
It's a YouTube video and he does this,he's a standup comedian, but also a
motivational speaker, and he shows thisvideo of one, one time he was at a, a
thing and there's a, um, choir director,a music teacher in the audience, and
(38:15):
he asked him to sing Amazing GraceGuy sings at it's beautiful but then.
He says, okay, now I want you,he, he calls it the hood version.
He said, now I want you to sing methe hood version of Amazing Grace.
And in this hood version like your dad'sin jail, um, your uncle just got shot.
And he like goes through this whole,whole scenario, like all these
life problems this guy is having.
Um, and he says, now sing me that version.
(38:36):
And this guy sings it.
And like every time I hearit, it gives me chills.
Like, he's, he, he just putshimself in that, that this is,
this is the life you're leadingwhile you're singing this song.
This is your why.
Um.
And he sings and it's amazing.
And then he says this statement,something like, when we, when we
know our why, our what has morepurpose, because we're, we're, 'cause
we're walking in our purpose, right?
(38:58):
Mm-hmm.
Um, so know your why first.
So I think if we think about as we go intothis coming school year or any given day.
Remembering your why, because it'sso easy to just get worried about the
AI or the politics or the funding orthe, your evaluation coming up or the
difficulties these kids are coming, orsocial media or motivation of students.
And just remember your whyof why you're doing it.
(39:19):
I think it, it, it gives usthat energy to persist and.
Um, it, it doesn't make it easier.
It just makes it so that we're, we'removing forward in that, that path.
Just like when we're, whenwe're exercising or something.
Right?
Like if you're an, if you, if you, forexercise, run on a treadmill, like if
you're just running on the treadmill.
(39:40):
That is no fun.
But if you're thinking like, I'm trying toget in shape for reasons X, y, or Z. So I
live a, live a hundred year life, healthylife with, with grandkids someday and all
these things, like this is why I am onthe treadmill than, than that exercise,
isn't . . . maybe it is easier, right?
Because you're feelingmore motivated to do it.
So I think that's the most importantthing as we enter a new school year,
(40:02):
is remember your why of why you'redoing it, um, so that you could
walk in your purpose as you do it.
Mike (40:07):
Well, thank you.
I really appreciate it and again, I,I can't, I can't stress too much how,
how much of an impact you made on me,which is kind of crazy since you know,
we're two, we're, you're a state away.
Yeah.
But I really appreciate what, what youdo and what you put out and the content
Jake (40:22):
you
Mike (40:23):
ful you are.
So
Jake (40:24):
thanks bud.
Same to you bud.
Mike (40:25):
Absolutely.
Thanks for listening.
I hope you found somevalue in this episode.
If you did, I'd love to hear from youor if you have any of your own ideas
or things you'd like me to share.
Please reach out and let.
On this episode of The Educational Duct Tape Podcast,
I'm flipping the mic around.
I joined the Inspired Teacher Podcastto chat with Mike Brilla about AI and
education books we're reading Buffaloesand Storms, and Why Your Why matters.
We also unpack the adjacent possibleand how small steps spark big
innovation for you and your students.
(00:20):
Let's dig in.
Welcome folks.
Welcome into the EducationalDuct Tape Podcast.
Today, as I do occasionally, I'mgoing to share a conversation
that I had on a different podcast.
So every now and then I do an interviewon a friend's podcast, and afterwards
(00:42):
I go, wow, I really enjoyed thatconversation; I wanna make sure
Educational Duct Tape listeners hear that.
And that happened after this discussion.
And so I always ask in that situationif I could share it on my podcast too.
And the reason I do that, my hope is that,number one, you enjoy the conversation.
And number two, that you go andsubscribe to that other podcast.
(01:05):
So today's interview was an, uh,interview I did on the Inspired
Teacher Podcast hosted by Mike Brilla.
It was a couple weeks ago.
Mike is a social studies teacher anda wrestling coach in Pennsylvania.
And he hosts a podcast that,as the name states, is geared
towards inspiring educators.
And as a listener to Mike's show,I have to tell you: it does.
(01:26):
It's inspirational.
So I do hope you go subscribe, uh, but youdon't have to take my word for it on that.
You could just listen to this episoderight here of me on the Inspired Teacher
Podcast and make an informed decisionabout whether or not you wanna subscribe
and you're going to want to, it'slike a 40 minute trial subscription
right now that you're signing up for.
Before we get to that episode, uh,if you're a Google user and haven't
(01:49):
listened to my episode about Geminifor education, I highly recommend
you go back and tune into that.
Lots of updates.
They're not all out right now.
Some are forthcoming in the comingweeks and months, uh, but there's a
lot of stuff happening in their Geminifor Education announcement, so I
highly recommend you go back and tuneinto I believe it was episode 128.
And also, if you're a Google foreducation user in school, I highly
(02:13):
recommend you make sure you'resubscribed to the show because in my
next episode I'll be sharing about theupcoming updates to Google Classroom.
And again, there are a lot of updatescoming to a classroom, and I'll be
sharing that alongside a few othered tech updates so make sure you're
subscribed so you don't miss those.
Okay, well, without further ado, let'sget into my conversation with Mike
(02:33):
Brilla on the Inspired Teacher Podcast.
We learn and we think and we grow based onwhat ideas we expose ourself to, as well
as who, whose ideas and who's around us.
Right?
And who we're talking to,
Mike (02:46):
episode 2 63, Jake Miller is here.
Welcome to the Inspired Teacher.
A podcast meant to highlight small,useful nuggets of information that will
help us to be more mindful, present,and effective as educators and people.
(03:11):
Hey, I am so super excited tobring to you this next episode.
Um, and it's, it's a result of somediscussions and planning for the past.
Few
years on my part where I've been kickingaround the idea and telling myself and
others that I was gonna bring guestsonto the show and I was gonna start
to reach out and interview people.
Um, and my first interview wasgoing to be Chris Nesi, right?
The, the PodFather himself, the guy whoreally, um, along with James Stern and
(03:35):
really pushed me into, into doing this.
But one thing led to anotherand, and it didn't work out.
And, and I got another surpriseguest, really, for my first ever
interview, and it's, it's Jake Miller.
Um, and for those of you who don'tknow Jake, I introduce him a little
bit later in this podcast, but, um,I'm really excited to bring this one.
Now, I do have to admitsomething, um, my audio in the
interview, it doesn't sound great.
(03:57):
It sounds pretty terrible.
And, and I, it, the perfectionist sideof me is very annoyed and upset and the
thought is, man, I wish I could fix it.
Unfortunately, I just can't.
So, um, let's be honest, mostof you would rather listen to
Jake speak than me because.
He is the main star of this show.
Uh, our conversationswere all over the place.
We went from picking at Chris,uh, a little bit of baseball.
(04:18):
We talked about ai, we talked aboutbooks we're reading, we talked about,
um, dealing with kids, students,our own kids and teachers, and
where we get our inspiration today.
Uh, I really enjoyed theconversation I had with Jake
and I hope you enjoy listening.
So thanks for listening, everybody.
Bryon (04:33):
I am Bryon Carpenter, host of Fresh Air at five a part of
the Education Podcast Network.
Just like the show you're listeningto now, shows on the network are
individually owned and opinionsexpress may not reflect others.
Find other interesting educationpodcasts at edupodcastnetwork.com.
Mike (04:53):
Alright, so welcome back to the Inspired Teacher.
I'm Mike Brilla.
I'm excited to have my first guest on thisiteration of the podcast and it's, it's
Jake Miller and, and for those of you who
have been living under a rockand maybe don't know who he is.
He's a host of, host ofEducational Duct Tape podcast.
He's an author, he is aspeaker, he is a presenter.
Um, and he's an all around,pretty entertaining and great guy.
So Jake, thank you somuch for, for coming on.
Jake (05:15):
Thanks for, thanks for having me on.
Mike.
Mike, I've been following theInspired Teacher show for a while
and I didn't, I didn't realizeI was the first guest though.
I, like, I send you a message.
I'm like, Hey, I'd love to be on the show.
I didn't realize.
I was like, Hey, I would love for youto have guests on your show, Mike,
and I'd love to be the first one.
Mike (05:31):
So full disclosure, we were talking before this.
Um, Chris Nessie is, wewe're mutual friends in-laws.
Chris has been pushing me to, to getguests on for some time and, and I
feel like Chris might become, um,if you've ever watched, uh, oh gosh,
what, what, what late night show?
Is that where they wouldbump Matt Damon all the time?
Jake (05:47):
Oh, is that on?
Uh, that's on Kimmel, isn't it?
Mike (05:49):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I feel Chris and I have planned podcastslike two or three times, and we both.
This can't seem to get it to work out.
So Chris was gonna be the first,but then by default it's you.
Jake (06:00):
Sorry, Chris, the pod, the PodFather.
I've offended the PodFather.
Yeah, he's gonna make mean offer I can't refuse.
If I wake up and there's a,there's a bloody podcast microphone
in my bed, I'll be worried.
Mike (06:13):
Exactly.
That's a little
Jake (06:14):
godfather joke.
I apologize for anybody whowas caught off guard by that.
Mike (06:19):
A Yankees logo on it or something.
Jake (06:20):
Right.
There will be a Yankees logo on it.
Mike (06:23):
That's perfect.
Jake (06:24):
That's what would offend me the most.
'cause I'm a, I'm aCleveland Guardians fan.
Like I'd be okay with the microphonebut get the Yankees logo outta here.
Mike (06:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's what Chris and Ilike to go back and forth.
I'm, I'm a Phillies fan, so I assume
Jake (06:35):
Yeah,
Mike (06:35):
we give it to each other just a little bit, so.
Alright.
So.
Regardless of how much fun it is tomake fun of Chris and, and, and talk
baseball, that's not why we're here.
Right.
So, right.
So I guess one of the things that, that I,and this is on my old iterations podcast.
I used to always ask this when I coachwrestling and we, we worked with this
group of people called Wrestling Mindset,and they had this, this line where they
(06:56):
would say like, the best warriors, themost, most successful people always knew
who they were and what they stood for.
I just loved it.
I never thought about that ascoaching and teaching and I
kind of thought about that one.
So, you know, for those ofyou, us who, who don't know,
just the surface level, like.
Who are you and why?
Why are you here?
Jake (07:14):
So I am like an education nerd.
Like, I don't know what's happenedto me, Mike, but like I, all of
my thoughts relate to education.
Like when I read books, likeit's summertime right now.
So we go to our, we go, we belongto a lake, we go to the lake.
My wife brings her like romance novel,and my daughter brings her romantasy
novel, uh, and my son brings his mangaand my oldest son brings his phone.
(07:38):
Not a book, I bring an education book.
Like that's what I'm always doing.
So I, I don't know when this happenedto me that it became my passion just
to always think about education.
It was funny because, you know, I, thisis year, I think 23 in education for me.
And when I was like, uh, six or sevenyears in or something like that, uh,
somebody told me like, Jake, you needto go work on getting your master's now.
(08:01):
Like you, you, you've gotta do itfor your continuing credits just to
keep your license, uh, and renew it.
It moves you up on the steps on thepayroll, and by the time you get enough
steps to be at the, at your max, youmight as well just have your master's.
So just go ahead and get your master's.
Right.
And I'm like, I don't evenknow what I wanna study.
Like, I, I thought when I graduatedfrom college with my bachelor's, I was
(08:22):
like never going to step in a classroomthat I wasn't teaching in again.
Um, and then I, so I went back and gotit in educational technology and wasn't
even feeling like a fire about it.
At that point.
I was like, I, I like to use tech.
I'm good at tech.
Um, I, that's where I'llget my, my license in.
And then at some point intime I started helping.
I had to, as part of that program,had to start helping teachers out
(08:43):
with technology and found like howmuch I loved supporting teachers.
Like, like just through like doingthis thing that I kind of had to do.
I was like, man, I, I reallyenjoy helping these teachers out.
And so as time has gone on, thathas kind of evolved into helping
them like pedagogically too, right?
And in other ways outside of technology.
So I, I guess, who am I, as justthe guy who's passionate about
(09:04):
good education, which is a hard,that's a hard person to be in 2025.
A person who's passionateabout good education
Mike (09:13):
for sure.
Um.
I, that's how, you know, I cameacross you through, uh, the, the
whole Google Teacher podcast thing.
Yeah.
And I, I was, for a couple years, I was, Iwas a, a teacher on special assignment for
education technology and like integratingit was when I, I was lucky or unlucky
enough, whatever you wanna call it.
And I started as a TOSA in2019 and then COVID hit.
(09:35):
So I went from, made fun of, Iwent from sipping coffee in the
hallways, talking to, to everybody.
So being like.
Massively busy.
Jake (09:42):
Yeah, right.
The beginning of that schoolyear, you were like, do you
wanna learn about Flipgrid?
Okay.
No.
All right.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, have a nice day.
Oh, you're, you're,you need a new charger.
Okay.
I can get you a new charger.
Um, or like the copier's broken, likeI guess I can look at it before I got
nothing else to do by the end of the year.
Just like your world's on fire, right?
Mike (10:00):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
It was such a, such a big change and, andso much of what, what you were saying has
kind of got, got me and got people throughthat and I appre, you know, I, I think
I'd be remiss to not thank you for that.
You were, you're definitely inspirational.
So I, I have to ask, I can't not ask.
What are you reading right now?
Jake (10:15):
So currently I'm reading, um, what's the name of it?
Oh, the Anxious Generation.
So, uh, Kasey Bell, uh, who, you know fromprobably Shake Up Learning and back in the
day she did the Google Teacher Podcast.
Um, she does a book study on it andthe, The book has been on my shelf.
Like you, you could seefortunately there's no video, uh,
Mike for this podcast episode.
(10:35):
'cause I was just working in theyard, um, on our sprinkler system.
And I, I look like it.
Um, but what you could see isa bunch of books behind me.
There's constantly, there's pilesbehind my chair that you can't see.
So I've constantly got like abacklog of books I wanna read.
And that was in there.
And she had the book study launchinga couple weeks ago and I was like,
you know what this, that's, I wantto learn how she does book study.
(10:56):
I wanna read this book.
It's perfect timing.
I wanna be part of the communitythat's doing this book study.
So I started reading that andI'm about 40% of the way through.
Um, I wanna say I'm loving it.
But it's, it's kind of a, a, it'sa frustrating and depressing book.
Do you know, do you knowthe Anxious Generation book?
Have you heard about it?
Mike (11:12):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I read it.
Yeah.
Jake (11:14):
Yeah.
And so I am finding it very compellingand well written and informative
and a good read, but it, it isreally bumming me out right now.
So I hope the last half ofthe book is a pick me up.
It,
Mike (11:27):
it gets better.
It does, but I, I, I rememberthinking the same thing.
I have two boys.
My oldest is going into 10th grade, myyoungest is going into seventh grade.
Jake (11:34):
Yeah.
Mike (11:34):
I remember thinking like, oh my gosh, I screwed these kids
up before I could even realize it.
Jake (11:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I feel the same.
My kids are in the same kind of age range,and it's like, you, you just, you didn't
screw up, you just followed the flow.
Right.
And like, I know, I was even moreprohibitive than most parents.
My wife and I were more prohibitive thanmost parents, but still allowed them
to have access to, to the technologiesof the phones and stuff like that.
And I'm like, man, you,you could just see.
(11:59):
Um, it's kind of like watching one ofthose superhero movies or whatever.
That's an origin story, right?
And you're like, oh, now I see wherethis superhero feature came from.
You read the anxious generation,you're like, now I see why my
kids are the way my kids are.
And I'm like, Ugh, it's hard.
Or, or my students are too.
Like, those are my other kids.
You know, the, the kids at school.
Um, you see it there too.
(12:21):
And, and your teachers talkabout like the kids these days
stuff or like, they're not.
They're not as motivated ornot as into school or whatever.
They tune out quickly and you'relike, well, I can tell you why.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, and so, yeah, that's hard.
Mike (12:35):
So, I, I read a book not too long ago.
I dunno if you ever readMarching Off the Map, it's called
Jake (12:40):
No, I never heard of it.
Mike (12:41):
Sub title.
It's a great one.
I, I'll see if I, I, I. Get you thetitle, the official title and the author.
Yeah.
But this was even before COVID hitand they were talking, the authors
were talking about how, excuse meabout, we have two choices now.
Like we can be like the, the angry sailorshaking his hand at the, in the winds
who are facing the wrong direction.
Right.
Adjust sails.
(13:01):
Right.
And I feel like that's what thatbook, you know, for some, the first
half that I did feel like that angrysailor like darn kids these days.
And I found myself like,but it does get better.
Jake (13:12):
Yeah, I think that's all, that's kind of always been, the way I've
thought about stuff in education is,is, you know, when you talk to those
teachers 15 years ago or whatever itwas when I was talking about Google for
education, when it was kind of all comingout, like, these things are coming.
If you wanted to shake your fistat it, that's fine, but it's
gonna go right past you, you know?
Um, and, and so nowadays with ai,that's, that's kind of the message
(13:35):
that I've, I've had, I've never heardthat specific one from that book,
but that's kinda the way it goes.
I talked about, uh, recently onthe Educational Duct Tape podcast,
this idea of Buffalo and Cowswhen a storm is approaching.
And I think this might actually be amyth, don't tell the listeners of the
Educational Duct Tape Podcast, buteverything I could find online said it
was true, except for some people werelike, I live on the Great Plains and
(13:55):
I've seen Buffalo and I've seen cows, andthey do not do these, these behaviors.
So I don't know.
We'll see.
I I've not talked to like a zoologistand asked him this question, but the,
the story is this guy Rory Vaden, uh,was the first person I saw write about
or speak about it, and he talks abouthow when a storm is approaching a cow
runs away from it and it ultimatelyends up in the storm regardless
'cause they can't outrun it, it just endsup in it for longer 'cause it's running
(14:18):
parallel to it, in the same direction asit whereas a buffalo will run towards the
storm and because they're running towardsit, number one, they get to it sooner.
And number two, they're runningin the opposite direction of it.
So they get through it faster, sothey spend less time in the storm.
Now I, again, I don't know if that'stechnically true, but that's what he says.
And I think that's areally strong metaphor for.
Technology and AI and stuff like that,we can't, we can't run away from it.
(14:39):
It's gonna get to us no matter what.
Uh, we've gotta plan effectivelyand run towards it and handle it.
Now, unfortunately, with cell phonesand stuff like that, with anxious
generation and social media, um.
We, we didn't plan out how to,how to handle it as a, as a
society of parents and educators.
Um, we just kind of letthat storm come at us.
(15:01):
I don't know if we, I dunno if we ranto it or away from it or what we did,
but, but we are in that storm and sonow we've gotta, we've gotta react now.
Mike (15:09):
I feel like we, we hunkered down and, and
Jake (15:11):
yeah,
Mike (15:12):
some of us were caught by surprise and some of us
just watched that approach and
Jake (15:15):
Right, but you can remember, I can remember the educators and, and
speakers in the education space thatwere like, kids should have blogs,
kids should have Twitter accounts, kidsshould start be making their brand.
You know?
And I was like.
I don't know.
Like I, like I ne I never wasfully on that bandwagon, but I also
wished I was pushing back on it.
Like in, in retrospect, I wish Ipushed back on that stuff more.
(15:38):
We're rushing these.
Um, not fully evolved brains into,into the social media landscape.
And so yeah, those, those peopleI think were wrong, but I was
also wrong for not, not realizingthe, the ills of social media.
You did not have plan to go heretoday with this conversation?
No,
Mike (15:58):
I was always one, I was like one of those early adopters.
Like I would like run headlong into it.
I was like, the buffalo,I would run right to it.
Yeah.
I, I could like, I remember the earlydays of Glogster and I remember, yeah.
Trying, like getting kids tobring phones to school and just
the novelty of it and Yeah.
You know, I think sometimes mybig thing was I, I focus too much
on the novelty and the, the, thegadget and less about the goal.
Jake (16:21):
Yeah.
Mike (16:21):
That's where you helped me so much.
Jake (16:23):
Hmm.
Well thanks.
Ironic.
I was with a, uh, a friend of mine who's,he's now a district level admin, but he
used to be, the last year he was a highschool principal and he and I back in
the day were on our district's, uh, veryfirst like tech leadership team, we called
ourselves, but we just would get togetherevery couple months and have discussions
about technology and, and to like drivethe district's vision with technology.
(16:43):
And back then when we were on thatteam, we're like, we need to let kids
have cell phones and set up policiesfor when they could have 'em out
and when they can't have 'em out, bevery clear about the policies, but allow
them because there's so much power inthis technology, but that was before
Chromebooks and things like that.
Um, and then I was visiting hishigh school recently that he was
a principal at, and he was like,yeah, we don't let kids bring
(17:05):
their cell phones to class anymore.
I was like, how ironic that you and Iare having this conversation 12 years
after we were pushing everybody toget 'em, but now they don't need them
anymore because we've got the one-to-onedevices that we can control and we could,
you know, make sure they're doing theright things for getting benefits from.
Yeah, but I think, I also think wedidn't realize, we, we didn't see
the wave of, of social media coming.
(17:25):
Yeah.
Mike (17:26):
No.
And had the adic, the addictiveness of it.
Yeah,
Jake (17:29):
for sure.
Mike (17:30):
Crazy to me, like yeah, I remember.
That's funny.
We called it the, thetechnology leadership team too.
We had, we had like denimembroidered shirts that people
got and they got the first laptopsin the district and everything.
It was a, so we had the same, and,and I can remember, I, I kind of
got, I. Some pushback recentlybecause we, we, two years ago now
I think was when we switched, wewent back to banning cell phones.
Yeah.
And I was one of the ones like,nah, we gotta get 'em in there.
(17:51):
Same thing as you.
No.
They need to use device.
And then people were like, weren't youthe one who has bargained for it before?
And it's changed.
The landscape has changed.
Jake (17:59):
Yeah.
Right.
Oh, I used to think, I used to think theyneed to have them so that they can learn
how to kind of ignore them or whatever.
What learn how to be successfulwith them in their pocket.
Like we are, like, we try to be as adults.
Um.
But as the years have gone on, I'verealized how addictive they are.
Um, and that, you know, we, weneed to actually just take them
(18:19):
away from 'em during class.
So my, my son's high school, theyput them in pockets at the front of
the room as they enter the classroomand pick 'em back up on the way out.
I think that's probablywhere I think is the ideal.
I, I wish they didn't havethem in between class changes.
I wish they were just interactingin person during class changes,
but I know some parents reallywant the kids to have them.
Yeah.
And so I think that'sthe right way to do that.
(18:40):
I, I, I know some schools do thosepouches that automatically lock,
um, and I'm not opposed to that.
That's just, that's just abig expense to the school.
So I think I prefer just thepouches in the front of the
classroom that they drop 'em in.
Mike (18:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I, I have a friend who's a principalthat told me, he's like, I don't, I don't.
I just want the kids to have thecourtesy to pretend like they don't
have 'em with them at the very Right.
Just keep it sign from us.
Yeah.
Alright.
Not to get too far down the cell phoneand, and the, the technology rabbit hole.
I wanna kind of make sure, yeah.
Because I had to give you the, a lotof what I have done over the past
few years has come as a result oflistening to, to you and reading you
(19:13):
and, and one of the things that youtalk so much about that really truly
helped me that this adjacent possible.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so can you, can you talk a littlebit about like what, what it is and
how, how, how you came upon this idea.
Jake (19:24):
So I first heard of it reading the book, the Innovator's
Mindset by George Couros.
I think he's the first personto talk about it from kind of
like, um, an educational sense.
But it came from, first it was anevolutionary biologist that talked
about it, and then it got pickedup by a guy in between who talked
more about the spreading of ideas.
Right.
But, but where it came from, from anevolutionary biologist standpoint is
(19:48):
the realization that life on Earthevolves kind of step by step by being
exposed to what's around it, right?
So you couldn't go from singlecelled organism to human, right?
There had to be steps in between.
And if you look kind of at theevolutionary patterns, there's some
kind of jumps, obviously, uh, withdinosaurs and things like that.
(20:12):
But if you really zoom in, you realizethings evolve from one step to the
next step, to the next step spreadingoutward, but based on what it's exposed to
and so then what that becamewas how ideas are spread, right?
So we learn and we think, and wegrow based on what ideas we expose
ourselves to, as well as who, whoseideas and who's around us, right?
(20:33):
And who we're talking to.
So it's so important that we're outthere kind of rubbing elbows with our
colleagues and other teachers, andthat's where I really picked up on it is.
If you don't talk to the teachers aroundyou about education and if you don't go to
conferences or get on social media, thatwas kinda the reason I was first talking
about mostly is the social media idea.
Um, if we're not exposing ourbrains to the brains of other
(20:54):
educators, we're losing out on ideas.
And, and I think it rings truein what teachers do because every
time a teacher goes somewhere.
So we've got teachers listening whoare on summer break and last week they
were on vacation somewhere or at thezoo or at a park or something with
their kids or something like that, andthey saw something wherever they were
that reminded of something they taught
(21:16):
and gave them a new ideaof how to teach it, right?
That's just what we do as teachers.
You're like at the, at the grocery storeand you see something, you're like,
oh, that could change how I have kidshand in papers or something, right?
Like, we're just always thinking ofthings from our classroom mindset, and
that to me is adjacent possible, right?
That idea couldn't have happened.
If you hadn't put yourself inthat space to see that happen.
(21:38):
Right?
So our ideas grow based on whatwe, what we see, what we do, who we
talk to, who we share ideas with.
So if I share an idea with you,you're gonna go like, oh, well that's
cool, but what if you did this right?
And like, I wouldn't havethought of that myself.
I needed to talk to you aboutit to get that idea there too.
And the other piece is you'vegotta try things, right?
You've gotta go, like, you're notgonna get that idea for how to
(21:59):
use, let's say, Padlet until yougo try Padlet for the first time.
Right?
You've gotta like dabble with it, right?
And those ideas expand outwards.
So nowadays with ai.
Um, a teacher who's never used AIis probably not gonna have this
earth shattering realization of howthey could use Claude or ChatGPT.
(22:20):
They've kind of gotta start with somethinglike MagicSchool that kind of really
helps 'em just like tiptoe into ai andthen that adjacent possible, okay, you've
tried doing this little thing with it.
Now let's see what ideas come out of that.
And it just ripples outward andthat's the adjacent possible.
So there's a lot of ways to think aboutit, but really for me, it's sharing ideas
(22:41):
with each other, sharing our ideas withother people, and taking steps, just
a step outside of our comfort zone totry little things and see kind of drop
by drop, where that expands out to.
Mike (22:53):
I, I think as you were talking, I was going through
thinking my own past too.
And, and one of the things that, that,that, that adjacent possible, has helped
me to, to, to do is, um, sometimes,you know, I, I will admit, I'm, I am.
The whole comparison is a thief of joy.
That idea, uh, I am one of thosepeople who I compare myself
(23:13):
sometimes too, too often to others.
Hmm.
And like, oh my gosh, I'll never do this.
Or look at that person.
And, and social media was reallygood for me at some points to
help me with getting the ideas.
Mm-hmm.
But it was also, it could be.
Horrible for me because it'slike I put pressure on myself.
And I think, you know, I just talkedto, not too long ago, I was talking
to you about like the whole, theMel Robbins book that she's got, the
(23:34):
whole Let Them Thing right now, andshe, she reframed it as, um, how you
can use, um, comparison to help you.
Right.
And I think it's, that's the same ideathat adjacent possible, it's, it's
looking at what people do and in anonjudgmental way for you or the others.
Is that
Jake (23:53):
kind of what Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love that and, and.
Yeah, that's a good point because youcan't, like, if you look at somebody
who's doing something, like look atthat teacher down the hallway who's
teaching, everybody know, like that'sthe best teacher in the school.
Everybody wants theirkid to have that class.
And like when the, when the principaltalks at the staff meeting, that's
the teacher they're talking about.
It's never me.
They're talking about it,but like, why aren't you?
Why don't we look to them?
(24:13):
Let them kind of come up withthose amazing ideas, see that,
and see how we could use it in our space.
Is that kind of what she's saying there?
Mike (24:21):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And how do you make it your own?
Like how do you, and I think that'swhere your adjacent possible thing
was for me, was so enlightening.
'cause it's like, yeah, I'mnot gonna be able to do.
Like, what, what youdo or what Kasey Bell.
Exactly.
I can't do it becauseI'm not that same person.
So do it in a way that makes sense to you.
Jake (24:38):
Yeah.
Right.
And that's, that's part of thereason, like I mentioned her book
study, that's part of the reasonI'm participating in her book study.
'cause I'd like to get involved inrunning some book studies myself
'cause I read so much and I lovetalking about what I'm reading.
Um, and I was like, I don't, I'venever run a book study before.
Let me see how she does it.
Right.
And it's not like, yeah.
Stealing somebody's ideasor something like that.
It's, it's just learning from each other.
(24:59):
Um, I think there's so much to learnfrom the way what other people do things.
And it's, it's interesting because weall do things our own way, but we have
to see those, the way those people doit, to be inspired by it, you know?
Mike (25:11):
Yeah.
So, so where are you?
You know, for so long we were all gettingour inspiration on Twitter, right?
We were all having those Twitter chats.
We were, we were, social media was.
The, the good side of it.
So, so where are, are you connectingwith educators or are you still,
or has it become more of a,uh, face-to-face thing again?
Jake (25:29):
Yeah, so, well, I, I love Bluesky and I want Bluesky to be that place.
That's actually where we weremessaging was on Bluesky.
Yeah.
I felt like there was a lot ofenergy around Bluesky, right around
like January, 2025.
Um, and a lot of teachers moving to there.
And I thought that was gonna be the place.
And I, and now I don't thinkit's gonna be, there's just
(25:50):
like not a lot happening there.
There's no negativity, right?
Right.
There's, there's honestywithout negativity.
Um, and there's, there are someeducators there, but there's just not
a lot of community happening there.
And so I don't, I'm bummed 'causeI, I was, hope I was really wishful.
Um, I don't think it'll be the place.
Where I'm getting the most actually.
So in my, my day job now, i'm notin a classroom or at a school.
(26:11):
I work for an educational service center.
So here in Ohio we have, um,they used to be county by county.
Now they're bigger than county by county,but we have educational service centers.
Every school district has to be aligned toone of them, use them for some services.
They use them for some of theirprofessional development service.
I work really involved with likefour different school districts,
but then there's a couple otherones that I'm with occasionally.
(26:32):
So maybe like seven or eightdifferent school districts.
So in a given week, in five days, I couldbe in upwards of like 10 different schools
within a week working with teachers.
Sometimes I'm observing in classrooms,sometimes I'm meeting with them.
And so that's where I'm getting it from.
It's just those conversations withteachers or time in classrooms,
which is interesting 'cause thatreally is adjacent possible.
(26:54):
Right.
Because I'm going in there andI'm, I'm hearing how a first grade
teacher's teaching and how a, how a12th grade teacher's teaching and how
it's happening in this classroom andhow it's happening in that classroom.
And I'm, I'm just hearing all thesedifferent ideas and seeing these things,
and it's like every time I'm talking tothose teachers or in those classrooms,
those synapses are firing, right?
Where it's like, oh, I didn'tthink about doing it that way.
Or, oh, look at how they're organizingthis, or look at how they're,
(27:15):
they're doing this, or look at howthey're using that tool, right?
So I'm getting it actually from beingin the classrooms with people, but I
think it's, it's important to note.
That different people like, I thinkwe all have to have that way that
we're learning about things and beinginspired by other, other educators.
And it's different for everybody.
Like some of us it's books.
Some of us it's podcasts, some of usit's social media, like there's, there's
(27:38):
still lots of educators sharing amazingthings on tikTok and Instagram and
Facebook and Twitter and Bluesky andname your social media and Pinterest.
And sometimes it's email newsletters.
Sometimes I said it's books,sometimes it's going to conferences.
Sometimes just talking tothe teachers you work with.
Um, there are a lot of different optionsand there's no right or wrong one, but I
(27:59):
think we all kind of need our need, ourcommunity of educators, you know, to get
ideas from and, and to feel a part ofthat community too, I think is important.
Mike (28:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's one thing I got wrong whenI was, I. When I first had kids, I
remember like, my goal was to take nowork home, so I would shut my door.
Like every moment I had, I wasgrading and doing everything.
And you lose that community.
Jake (28:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I, I hate to say takethe work home, but Right.
But I also hate to say, shut your doorand don't talk to the other teachers.
Right.
Mike (28:30):
Yeah.
Well, it's a choice, right?
It's a, and, and like I knowthere's some teachers who, who,
there's, there's people who.
You know, you can see'em on social media now.
Like they all, they're all aboutlike, you work till your hours
and don't give anything more like.
I have no problem taking work homeif it means I get to go take a walk
for 10 minutes during the day orI get to just go talk to somebody.
Jake (28:48):
Yeah.
I find that I don'ttake a lot of work home.
I take a lot of thinking about work home.
Uh, and not in a bad way.
I mean, I, I, I mean just whether it'sreading a book or listening to a podcast
or, or you know, talking to somebody likeyourself, uh, and talking about this stuff
and that, that's the stuff that's more,
more pleasurable for me.
'cause that's the, uh,that's not the work.
(29:08):
That's the, that's the mission.
You know what I mean?
Like, so I, what I'm taking homeis the mission of education.
What I'm doing during myworking hours is the work.
So that's what I'd like tosee for teachers, right?
Is that the grading of papers and theplanning of lessons happens between eight
and three or whatever your workday is.
But, but there's more of themission of thinking about teaching
outside of there, the stuff that.
The reason we're in the profession,you know, um, outside of that time.
(29:32):
And that's where, that's where podcastslike your, like yours are, are nice
because it brings that opportunity in.
Mike (29:36):
Yeah.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
So, so one of the things you'vementioned earlier, I don't think
anybody's heard about this thing calledAI lately, but, uh, you talk about
using ai, um, and, and it's funny, um.
You, you, you mentioned the three that,like MagicSchool, Claude, ChatGPT like
I, I I'm in each of those and, andto continue with your animal metaphor
from earlier I read, um, Doris KearnsGoodwin wrote a book about, she's
(30:00):
called a leadership in turbulent times.
Okay.
She's talking LBJ, Lyndon Baines Johnson.
And how he.
He was a great leader because of, um, hewas a cowboy when he was younger, and she
said, you know, he, he used to have thisstory where he said, like, when your, when
your cow gets stuck in the mud, like a cowhand has to get in the mud and get muddy
with the cow to help it lead its way out.
(30:20):
Yeah.
So that's kinda like, Itook, I'm like, I love that.
Like get muddy with your students.
So like that's, I dove headfirstinto MagicSchool and Chat GPT.
Ai, what, what do you, what advicemight you have for people who are like a
little hesitant to, to embracing AI or,
Jake (30:36):
yeah.
Mike (30:37):
First of all, from it, I should say.
Jake (30:39):
Yeah.
First of all, I love that metaphorbecause it's, it's funny that I,
I, I, I'm guilty of it myself.
There's been times in teaching in theclassroom or in professional development
too, where a student is strugglingand unable to grasp the concept or
learn the skill or master the skill.
And I'm trying, I I'm notin the mud with them, right?
(30:59):
I'm trying to do it from the frontof the classroom and like, like,
just like kind of shaking my headgoing like, why don't they get it?
Like, I, I need, you need to get in themud with them and help 'em out there.
So that's really apowerful metaphor there.
I think the most importantthing with AI is.
And it's, it's what I've alwaystalked about on my podcast with with
Educational Duct Tape, is the ideaof looking at it as a tool, right?
You don't have to start usingAI just to start using ai.
(31:24):
Think about where that can helpyou or your learners, where that
could benefit you or your learners.
So one of my favorite things about AI isthe, the way it can, um, make learning
more accessible, like the universalDesign for learning aspects of it.
So you take a tool like diffit, forexample, or MagicSchool . And look at
how it could change reading levels ofcontent or translate content or make
(31:46):
content more relatable to students.
Things like that.
And like, if that's an area of needfor you, that's a good spot to start
trying things like that out there.
Because number one, that brings you intothe adjacent possible, okay, I've used
AI in this one way and now that's gonnahelp me see that what's next to me?
What, what these adjacentpossibilities are for use of ai.
But I'm also doing it ina way that's impactful.
(32:08):
It's not just another thing.
It's achieving a problem for me.
So think about like, what's, what'ssomething that you'd like to see fixed
in your classroom or go more smoothlyor make better for your students or
make more efficient for yourself.
Um, talk to somebody who knows ai.
Maybe your building tech coach oryour tech director or somebody like
that, and ask them, or your TOSA,how, what can I, what can, how
(32:32):
can I use AI to help me with this?
They're gonna know the answer.
You're gonna go learn how to do that.
It's gonna be impactful in your practice.
And then you're gonna go like, oh.
I bet it could help with this too.
Right?
So you go to use it to lower yourreading level of your content and
you're like, oh, I bet it can helpthat English language learner too.
Uh, yeah, it can, right?
And so then you're gonna try thatout and you're like, oh, well this
(32:54):
kid who's got issues with executivefunctioning and struggles with really
large projects, I wonder if it couldbreak that down into pieces for them.
Well, yeah, it can.
Right?
And then you start to see the power of it.
And there certainly are dangers with ai,but at least you're seeing that power
because, because to your point earlier,um, we can't just stand on the shore
and shake our fist at the storm, right?
(33:15):
We've gotta, we've gotta accept that thestorm is coming, those waves are coming
and, and turn the ship to go with it.
Um, but there's no reason.
We just have to accept it doingeverything, you know, we could be
very mindful about it and use itin ways that are impactful for us.
Yeah.
Mike (33:29):
It's funny you mentioned Diffit.
Diffit was like mygateway into same thing.
It was struggling readers.
It was, I had a girl who, who was from,from, um, Brazil only spoke Portuguese.
So, and, and, and like once,it just, it opens your eyes to
all the possibilities, right?
Helping those individual students.
'cause you know, we can'tmultiply ourselves, but we can
make our, our lives a lot easier.
Jake (33:50):
Right.
Yeah, and maybe it's something likethat that makes it easier for the kids.
Maybe it's something that makes iteasier for the teacher too, like,
like you look at, brisk is anotherone that I think is a great entry
aI tool for teachers.
It does a lot of that accessibilitykind of stuff too, that universal
design for learning kind of stuff.
But it also has that thing where it cangenerate feedback on student writing.
Now, I, I know the best case scenario isthe teacher gives all the feedback I. But
(34:14):
I also know that that's a, like to yourpoint earlier of not taking work home,
I know it's really tough for teachers togenerate all of that feedback and do it in
a timely fashion and a thoughtful fashion.
So yes, I'd love for the teachers tobe doing feedback, but I also know
they, they can't possibly do all of it.
Um, so a lot of teachers arereally into using Brisk to
generate feedback for learners.
(34:34):
And so that's a way to like dip yourtoes into the water of AI and kind of
realize that adjacent possible, becauseit's hard until you get in there to even
understand what it could do for you.
Mike (34:44):
Yeah.
Now, and I, you brought up, I, there'sa tool, and this is terrible, I can't
even remember the name of it rightnow, but I, I started using it at the
end of last year where I could put,like, I could dump, I teach social
studies, I dumped the primary resource.
I, I could ask questions, andthen the AI gave kids feedback.
Based on what I told 'em.
Mm. Like, here are the success parameters.
(35:04):
Yeah.
And it gave them feedback andit was kind of, it was powerful.
Like yeah.
The feedback was nothing likewhat I would give, but at least
it gave us a conversation place.
So somewhere you could start,
Jake (35:12):
right?
Yeah.
It, it, you could use that as, as, uh, arough draft of the feedback for yourself.
Like it, it does the beginning workand then you take it from there.
Or you could use it here and there.
Like if you think of a studentworking on a writing piece that's
gonna take them a week to write.
It'd be great if they got feedbackon their writing each of those five
days of that week, but that's notfeasible for the teacher to do.
(35:35):
So what if the AI does itsome of those days, you know?
Mike (35:39):
Yeah.
It's, I, I think it is one of thegreatest time savers you can have, and,
and, you know, I, I found myself nowusing it for help generate lesson ideas.
Or even last week, my, my wife andmy older son were having quite an
animated discussion about his onlineclass he's taking this summer and
like I was going to ChatGPT andlike act as if you're a motivational
(36:00):
interview, how would you approach that?
It's just, it's, it's, it'sgot great possibilities.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, so I wanna be mindful oftime and, and, you know, let you
get back out to your sprinklers.
Jake (36:12):
I don't want to go back out.
Let's talk about again,
Mike (36:17):
um, what.
Before we go, one of the things Ialways like to try and do is end, end
with like something, just somethingspecific, a piece of advice you know,
that some, a teacher can try or remember.
Um.
Just that make things alittle less overwhelming.
So is there, is there just a, a littletip, a reminder, whatever it might be.
You know, we talked about beingeducation nerds, reading books,
(36:39):
ai, we we're all over the place.
Um, is there one little, just little tipyou can give to help those people who are
maybe are feeling overwhelmed or feelinga little, um, like these kids these days?
Jake (36:48):
Yeah, I think.
Right now, so it'ssummertime we're doing this.
Most people will listento this in the summer.
I know there's a long tail on podcasts.
There's somebody listening tothis right now in April of 2027.
Like they are like, it, it'shappening, but, but most people
are listening to it right now.
So as we're in our summer mindset andwe're preparing for a new school year, I
also know that some people might not be inthe, in the, in America or might have a.
(37:10):
Be, um, year round school.
But regardless, most of the listenersare preparing, they're enjoying their
summer break and in a couple months, Iknow I shouldn't talk about Bruno, but
they're gonna, they're preparing to goback to school here in a couple months.
I think as we start back to theschool year, it's important.
I'm not even gonna giveed tech advice here.
It's important to think aboutyour why, because it's, it's
tough to be a teacher in 2025.
(37:31):
Um, there's a lot of stuff going on,not just ai, but in budget ways, in
political ways, in society, ways.
There's a lot, it's, it's tough to bea teacher right now, so I think it's
important to think, to remember our why.
Um.
I think this first came out in a bookby Barbara Bray, it might be called
Find Your Why or Start With Why.
Uh, I haven't read thebook, but I've met Barbara.
(37:52):
She's a wonderful woman.
Um, and there's this, this, um, videothat she talks about in the book.
I, I saw it in a presentation first.
I think it came, first came fromher, this guy named Michael Junior.
It's a YouTube video and he does this,he's a standup comedian, but also a
motivational speaker, and he shows thisvideo of one, one time he was at a, a
thing and there's a, um, choir director,a music teacher in the audience, and
(38:15):
he asked him to sing Amazing GraceGuy sings at it's beautiful but then.
He says, okay, now I want you,he, he calls it the hood version.
He said, now I want you to sing methe hood version of Amazing Grace.
And in this hood version like your dad'sin jail, um, your uncle just got shot.
And he like goes through this whole,whole scenario, like all these
life problems this guy is having.
Um, and he says, now sing me that version.
(38:36):
And this guy sings it.
And like every time I hearit, it gives me chills.
Like, he's, he, he just putshimself in that, that this is,
this is the life you're leadingwhile you're singing this song.
This is your why.
Um.
And he sings and it's amazing.
And then he says this statement,something like, when we, when we
know our why, our what has morepurpose, because we're, we're, 'cause
we're walking in our purpose, right?
(38:58):
Mm-hmm.
Um, so know your why first.
So I think if we think about as we go intothis coming school year or any given day.
Remembering your why, because it'sso easy to just get worried about the
AI or the politics or the funding orthe, your evaluation coming up or the
difficulties these kids are coming, orsocial media or motivation of students.
And just remember your whyof why you're doing it.
(39:19):
I think it, it, it gives usthat energy to persist and.
Um, it, it doesn't make it easier.
It just makes it so that we're, we'removing forward in that, that path.
Just like when we're, whenwe're exercising or something.
Right?
Like if you're an, if you, if you, forexercise, run on a treadmill, like if
you're just running on the treadmill.
(39:40):
That is no fun.
But if you're thinking like, I'm trying toget in shape for reasons X, y, or Z. So I
live a, live a hundred year life, healthylife with, with grandkids someday and all
these things, like this is why I am onthe treadmill than, than that exercise,
isn't . . . maybe it is easier, right?
Because you're feelingmore motivated to do it.
So I think that's the most importantthing as we enter a new school year,
(40:02):
is remember your why of why you'redoing it, um, so that you could
walk in your purpose as you do it.
Mike (40:07):
Well, thank you.
I really appreciate it and again, I,I can't, I can't stress too much how,
how much of an impact you made on me,which is kind of crazy since you know,
we're two, we're, you're a state away.
Yeah.
But I really appreciate what, what youdo and what you put out and the content
Jake (40:22):
you
Mike (40:23):
ful you are.
So
Jake (40:24):
thanks bud.
Same to you bud.
Mike (40:25):
Absolutely.
Thanks for listening.
I hope you found somevalue in this episode.
If you did, I'd love to hear from youor if you have any of your own ideas
or things you'd like me to share.
Please reach out and let.
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