EDT110 - Dan Fitzpatrick - "The AI Educator" - Using AI for Efficiency - MagicSchool, SchoolAI, Diffit, Brisk, Gamma.app, ChatGPT, and Large Language Models - Educational Duct Tape: An EdTech Integration Mindset

Episode Transcript
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Jake (00:00):
In today's episode of the educational duct tape podcast.

(00:03):
My guest is Dan Fitzpatrick, the authorof the bestselling book, the AI classroom.
Dan and I discuss what he calls frontierAI tools like chat, GPT and Gemini,
as well as tools like magic school,school AI Diffit brisk gamma.app.
And his prepared frameworkfor generative AI and more.

(00:25):
My wife jokes that I have aweird obsession with our Roomba.
And it's not just a joke.
It's true.
I love Mr.
Belvedere.
Yes.
Yes.
I did name our Roomba after the titularEnglish Butler in a 1980s sitcom.
And yes, I might spend a littletoo much time admiring Mr.
Belvedere as he vacuums our floors.
There's something so satisfyingabout pressing a button and

(00:48):
letting him do all the work.
After he's done.
I'll even go tell my wife.
I vacuumed the bedrooms today.
She knows it was actually Mr.
Belvedere.
But I like to think Ideserve a little credit.
You know, that's the magicof automation, isn't it?
You get the satisfaction of a job welldone without actually doing the work.
And just like Mr.
Belvedere handles the floors in my house.

(01:09):
Today's sponsor VIZOR handlesthe heavy lifting when it comes
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with personalized email notifications,all without lifting a finger.
Just like Mr.

(01:29):
Belvedere VIZOR handles it all.
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Educational duct tape listeners VIZORhas a special deal waiting head over
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(01:50):
Trust me with VIZOR.
Managing devices will be as easy as well.
As easy as watching Mr.
Belvedere clean the floors.
Now if you'll, excuseme, I'm off to give Mr.
Belvedere some much deserved praise.
Oh.
And while I'm doing that, you shouldhead over to VIZOR.cloud/jake.

(02:20):
Hey there duct tapers, whetheryou're a longtime listener or
tuning in for the very first time.
Welcome to the show.
I'm Jake and educator from Ohio.
And by joining us today,you're officially a duct taper.
That means you're onboard with theeducational duct tape metaphor.
Seeing educational technology, not asthe end goal, but as a powerful tool

(02:41):
like duct tape use to solve problems,achieve goals and meet learning standards.
Before we get into it.
I want to apologize for thelong gap between episodes.
I had hoped to make this a weekly thing,but my day job and my dad job have kept me
from making that happen from here on out.
I'll aim for weekly, but I hopeyou'll understand if there's

(03:01):
a week off here and there.
Next really quickly.
I ran a contest in the month of August andwanted to tell you who the winners are.
10 awesome.
Duct tapers are winning afree signed copy of my book.
Educational duct tape.
If I list your name, please sendme an email to jake@jakemiller.net
or a DM on any social mediaplatform with your address.

(03:22):
And I'll get that book in the mail to you.
And by the way, if you'd like the book tobe a gift to a friend or a colleague, just
let me know when you send me that message.
All right, here are our 10 winners.
Number one.
Bryon Carpenter.
Number two, Tim Cavey,number three, John Hartmann.
Number four, Vicki Heupelnumber five, Michael Morrison,
number six, Janice and Janice.

(03:44):
I apologize if I can't say your lastname here.:Medenica or Medenica.
I don't know.
I.
At that that's you Janice?
You won.
Number seven Chris Nesi, number eight,Robert Louis, number nine, Ainsley hill.
And finally, number 10, John O'Neill.
I have a feeling that some of those folks.
Already have their copies of the bookbecause they've been supporting the
show for years, but I also have afeeling that they know some colleagues.

(04:07):
or coworkers or friends that they'dbe happy to pass the book along to.
So just send me thosemessages with those addresses.
To those of you whoentered, but did not win.
I'm sorry, but don't worry.
I've got another chance for you.
So listen up.
As I've shared in previous episodes,I'm excited about an idea that I have
in this iteration of the podcast.
That creates a space that's evenmore collaborative and interactive

(04:30):
than any other educational podcastor past episodes of this show.
So here's how it works during the fiveor six days after this episode drops,
I'm inviting you, the duct tapersout there to share your thoughts on
the topics that Dan and I dive into.
Whether it's your reactions.
Your additional insights or maybe evensomething that you think we missed.

(04:51):
We want to hear it.
And here's the cool part.
Those contributions are likely tobe featured in the next episode.
Yep.
I'll be taking your audio snippets,mixing them with my own thoughts and
crafting an episode that highlightsall of our collective wisdom.
It's like creating an educational gumboand your wisdom is the secret ingredient.
MMMM, gumbo.

(05:12):
So after you listen today,head over to EDU duct tape.com.
That's EDU, D U C T T aP e.com/padlet or EDU.
Duct tape.com/speakpipeto share your voice.
Both links are rightthere in the show notes.
Now I've got to say I'm partialto Padlet because it lets you

(05:33):
engage with other listeners too.
It's like a mini forum wherethe conversation keeps growing.
But if you'd rather just chat with medirectly speak pipe is the way to go.
Either way.
I can't wait to hear what you have to say.
. And here's the other chance to win afree book thing that I just mentioned for
this week only I'll be selecting threerandom contributors from those submissions
to win a free signed copy of my book.

(05:55):
That's right.
Share your thoughts hear yourself onthe podcast and possibly win a free
book too, so here's what I'd recommend.
As you listen to Dan and Itoday take time to think.
Did they miss anything?
Do I agree with what they said?
Is there something that I'd add orchange reflect on what you're hearing
and then after you listen, hop intothe show notes and click the link to

(06:17):
the SpeakPipe or the Padlet and sharefor your chance to be on the show
and to win a free copy of my book.
I am back up here on my soap box totalk about one of our favorite topics.

(06:41):
Now I know what you're thinking.
"Jake, you better not betalking about the Buffalo again."
And don't worry.
Nope, no Buffalo.
Well, Maybe a little Buffalo.
But wait, wait, don't stop listening.
It's just slightly related to the Buffalo.
I promise it's something new.
The Buffalo metaphor tells us toface the storm, but it doesn't tell

(07:02):
us how to address the complexitiesthat we see when we face it.
So today we're going to explore howwe could take control of the ever
evolving landscape of AI in education.
So we're not just facing the storm.
We're learning how to navigate theriver of water that this storm creates.
Speaking of rivers in the movie, Dr.

(07:23):
Strange, there's this characternamed the Ancient One, which
is also what I call my dad.
Hm, kidding, kidding, sorry, dad.
Um, you've probably seen the moviedoctor strange, right then the very
first, one of the series of Dr.
Strange movies.
the Ancient One is of course, thissuper wise and super mysterious
character that advises and teaches Dr.
Strange and Dr.

(07:43):
Strange feels slightly conflictedabout the Ancient One at first, but
he learns a lot from the Ancient One.
Anyhow,
at one point, she gives Dr.
Strange, a piece of advice that feelsincredibly relevant to us today.
She says "You cannot beata river into submission.
You have to surrender to its currentand use its power as your own."

(08:04):
And you know what, that's exactlyhow we need to think about AI.
We can't fight the currentof technological change.
Instead, we need to learn how toride it, how to harness its power.
And how to use it to benefitour students and ourselves.
But how do we do that without feelinglike we're being swept away by class

(08:25):
six rapids in an inflatable raft.
I'd like to propose that we considerusing the CIA coaching model here.
No, no, no.
I'm not saying we need to be spiesand undercover agents in the CIA.
I'm telling you.
We need to use the CIA coaching model thatwas introduced by Neil and Sue Thompson.

(08:46):
You see, it gives us a frameworkfor responding to challenges
and it's a perfect fit forhow we can handle the AI wave.
So let's break down what theC, I, and A are in this model.

First up, C (08:58):
control.
We want to look at the issue thatwe've been presented with and ask
what elements of this can we control?
Well, we have the power to choose theAI tools and technologies that we use
and that we allow in our classrooms.
We can assess what aligns with ourteaching goals, what truly benefits

(09:19):
our students and what's safe to use.
So we can do that to pick whichAI tools we use and which ones
we allow our learners to use.
We also control how, and when AI isused, maybe you decide that AI is perfect
for helping students brainstorm ideas,but not for completing assignments.

(09:39):
That's within your control.
At least while thestudents are in your room.
Or perhaps you use it to streamlineadministrative tasks, giving
you more time to focus on directinteractions with your learners.
You set the boundaries,you create the guidelines.
This is your learning environment and youare in control of how AI fits into it.

(09:59):
So first in the CIA model is control.
And while we'd love to have controlover everything in our classrooms and
everything in our schools, we don't, andthat's where the next two letters come in.
Next up, I is for influence some elementsfall outside our direct control, but we
still have the power to influence them.

(10:20):
For example, while we might not be theones writing district-wide policies
on AI, we can use our voices in theseconversations, whether it's sharing
our thoughts with administrators,joining committees, or collaborating
with colleagues, we can influencethose policies as well as how AI.
Is perceived andimplemented in our schools.

(10:41):
Again, we can't control policies,perception, and implementation, but
if we want to, we can influence it.
And what about our students?
We might have the ability to controltheir AI usage in the classroom, but
beyond that, it's out of our hands.
However, we could still influencetheir attitudes and their behaviors.

(11:02):
We may not be social mediainfluencers with all the bussin rizz.
Honestly, it took me a few triesto even figure out what that means.
Anyhow, I'm clearly not a hipsocial media influencer and
no offense, neither are you.
But we are still student influencers.
We can guide them to see AI as a toolfor learning rather than just a shortcut.

(11:24):
By modeling a growth mindset, givingthem insights into how we think about
AI and by encouraging ethical use,we can help them develop a healthy
relationship with this technology thatwill serve them well beyond our classroom.
When this AI river first made waves ineducation, some educators responded by
trying to lock it down, ban it, use AIdetectors, tell students they'd fail

(11:49):
if they'd use it.
In short, they tried to control it.
They wanted to beat theriver into submission.
"I'll show you chat GPT!"
But the truth is AI is beyondour control in many ways.
Instead, we should focuson what we can influence.
Imagine a Venn diagram control isthat small circle in the center.

(12:10):
What happens in your classroom?
You can control that.
Influence is the larger circle around it.
While it may be out of ourcontrol, how our students use
AI outside of our classroom,
and it may be outside of our control,how they think about AI and it may
be outside of our control, how theyfeel like it should be implemented
and what they think is appropriate.

(12:30):
It is within our capacityto influence those things.
It is within our capacity to guidehow students use AI outside of school.
Finally, we come to the a, andthat is for accept and adapt.
This is the hardest part, because itmeans recognizing that some things are

(12:50):
simply out of our control and outside ofour influence, this is the outer level

of that Venn diagram (12:56):
those things that we can neither control nor influence.
We have to start by accepting them.
AI is here to stay and it'stransforming the way we think about
education and pretty much everything.
And that's outside of our control.
One of the biggest challenges we'llface is how AI impacts assessment.

(13:18):
With AI capable of completing manytraditional tasks, The risk of academic
dishonesty is higher than ever.
We must accept these realities aspart of our new educational landscape.
Now accepting them doesn't mean wavingthe white flag and just giving up.
When we accept these things,we need to avoid slipping into

(13:38):
the lizard brain response.
We talked about on a recent episode,the instinct to fight or flee
instead of fighting these changesor running from them, we need to.
Adapt.
Right.
Fortunately, accept isn't the only a wordin the CIA model it's paired with adapt.
So while we're accepting these newrealities, we can also adapt to them.

(14:04):
This might mean rethinking ourassessment strategies, focusing on
tasks that emphasize creative thinking,creativity and personal reflection.
Areas where AI strugglesto replicate human insight.
When we accept the reality,we can adapt in these ways.
It might also mean fostering studentagency and intrinsic motivation.

(14:25):
Encouraging students to value learning forits own sake, rather than just for grades
after all cheating often happens when theends become more important than the means.
If we adapt and prioritizethe means the learning.
AI can be a tool thathelps learners learn.
Rather than helps students cheat.

(14:47):
And yes, I chose the words, learnersand students intentionally there.
Again, accept, and moreimportantly, adapt.
And remember that Dr.
Strange quote, "you cannotbeat a river into submission.
You have to surrender to its currentand use its power as your own."
That's exactly what we need to do with AI.

(15:09):
Instead of fighting against itsflow, we should figure out how to
ride it and how to use its currentto reach our educational goals.
So as we navigate this AI river together,let's keep the CIA model in mind.
Control what we can.
Influence what we must andaccept and adapt to where needed.

(15:31):
AI, isn't just a storm to fear.
Or a river to be swept awayby it's a powerful current.
And when harnessed correctly,It can help us achieve amazing
things in our classrooms.
Let's face this challenge, head onwith the wisdom of the Ancient One.
The courage of a Buffalo andthe forward momentum of a river.

(15:55):
I'd love it
if you pause the podcast right now toreflect on these questions, what aspects
of AI and education can you control?
And which will you choose to control?
What is within your means to influenceand which will you choose to influence?
And finally, what must you accept?
Where you could stop trying tobeat the river into submission.

(16:18):
And how will you adaptto these new realities?
Okay folks.
So here's what I need you to dobefore I start the interview with
Dan, I'm going to tell you thequestion that I'm going to ask him.
I'd like you to press pauseand formulate your answer.
Then when you resume listening, youcould look for spots where Dan and

(16:39):
I echo your thoughts or places whereyou have ideas that we didn't share.
And then of course, head overto the duct taper space on
Padlet or speakpipe to share.
So here's the question.
What tool or strategy would you use tocomplete teacher tasks more efficiently?
Take a moment.

(17:00):
Think about your answer and then joinme to hear Dan's wisdom on this topic.
right Today's guest is Dan Fitzpatrick.
Dan wrote the bestsellingbook, the AI classroom.
He has helped countlesseducators worldwide.
Navigate AI.
His purpose is simple to help keepeducational systems relevant so

(17:22):
that all learners are prepared forsuccess in a rapidly changing world.
I don't know about you guys, but that'sa purpose I can get behind right there.
He also writes weekly for Forbeson educational transformation for
educators, parents, and entrepreneurs.
You could find Dan on his website,which is theaieducator.io or find
him on X, formerly known and knownto me as Twitter, @TheAIEducatorX.

(17:47):
You could find all of that contactinformation in the show notes,
but not just in the show noteshere in the actual educational
duct tape podcast is Dan himself.
What's up, Dan?
How you

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: Hey, Jake, I'm very good. (17:56):
undefined
Thank you.
I am.
I was at a festival on Friday.
So a few days before recording this.
So, and I spent a lot ofthe day outside in the sun.
Now, you can probably tell if anyone'swatching the video of this as well, that
I don't do too well in the sun, so mynose is all burnt, my head's all burnt.
it's the Irish genes and theginger hair just doesn't do well.

(18:17):
So yeah, I'm doing well, but I'mstill kind of struggling with the,
my head and my nose at the moment.
but yeah, all good.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (18:24):
I.
I didn't notice it.
Your filter or whatever is

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (18:28):
good.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (18:28):
even noticed.
I was noticing that, noticing in thevideo were in the awesome beard club
here, I think, except you've gotthe ginger and I've got the gray.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: I'm getting a bit of graze (18:36):
undefined
on the side, but yeah,
I'm not far

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812: I've got a bit of black hair. (18:40):
undefined
So it feels like we went rightback into, to previous experience.
It was like, we, like, we justfinished the conversation because
we have done this before, exceptnever educational duct tape.
I, I got to be on your old podcast,the Edu Futurists, I think two times
back in like 2019, 2020, had a blastdoing that with you and Ben Whitaker

(19:01):
and Steven Hope on the EduFuturists.
Is that show still on the air?

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: it is. (19:05):
undefined
They're still going.
I stepped back last year, to workon other projects, but those guys
are still going strong and, yeah,bringing out an episode every week.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (19:14):
I remember we talked about somewhere here in
Ohio, there is a duct tape festival.
I've never been to it.
but we talked about it and youguys were talking about it.
One of you, I don't remember whoit was, maybe it was Steven, was
talking about coming to Ohio andvisiting and me and him were going
to go to the duct tape festival.
a festival over the weekend,I was starting to wonder, was
it the duct tape festival?
Is
that where you got
that sunburn?

(19:35):
Was

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: I wish it had been, I wish I had been (19:36):
undefined
in Ohio for the duct tape festival

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (19:40):
already, but we're going to dive into the
official silliness of educationalduct tape, which is a little game.
Uh, and the game we're goingto play two truths and one lie.
So you are going to
read to me three statements and I'm goingto try to guess which one's the lie.

(20:01):
As, Listeners to this podcast knowwhether it's from the, first few years
the most recent episode that aired,with Molly Klodor recently, I really
struggle at this game always get itwrong and then forget to find out
what the correct answer actually is.
And then try to move onwithout finishing the game.
so I'm prepared to botch this game,but we're going to learn a little

(20:23):
more about Dan in the process.
So Dan, what are yourthree statements for me?

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (20:27):
Yeah.
Here we go.
So my three statements are, numberone, I was once a standup comedian.
Number two, I was once an Olympic athlete,and number three, I was once a priest.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (20:42):
Wow, um, I could see, I, wow, I could see
any, any of the three being a lie.
Um, let me, let me, letme look at each of them.
Stand up comedian.
You are a pretty funny guy.
I've, I, um, I'd still berather impressed by that.
Um, although you did sayonce a standup comedian.

(21:05):
So maybe that's true.
Um, An Olympic athlete.
I've, you'd be the first I'd ever met.
So that, that would be,that would be amazing there.
Um, and a priest.
I've never, I've never seen youas a sinner, Dan, but I've also,
I've also, never noticed like, wow,that's a really holy guy right there.
He was probably a priestat some point in time.

(21:27):
So I'm, Oh my goodness.
Is it the priest or the athlete?
I'm guessing you were not once a priest.
That's I think your lie isthat you were once a priest.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: Uh, unfortunately you got it wrong. (21:36):
undefined
What!?

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812: really were once a (21:38):
undefined

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: Uh, I, (21:39):
undefined
yeah, well, I was, yeah, before Iwas a teacher, I trained to be a
Catholic priest and I was a priestfor a few years and then I left a
different, completely different life.
Then I went into teaching.
In fact, before I went into teaching, I.
Was a stand up comedian for a few years.
Uh, and then, yeah, so I'venever been an Olympic athlete.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812: What sport would it have (21:59):
undefined
been if you were
an Olympic athlete?
It doesn't have to be
realistic.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: there's nothing kind of athletic about me. (22:04):
undefined
So, um, I'd probably have to be a boxer.
I think.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812: you're not swimming the (22:09):
undefined

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: butterfly? (22:10):
undefined
Oh, and yeah, that's, yeah, I probablyhave to do boxing or, or the shooting.
They don't have to movearound for the shooting.
Do you just stand there and shoot a
gun?
Yeah, I would do that.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812: you can do that one. (22:20):
undefined
This is officially, I believe,unless somebody didn't tell me,
this is the first priest, formerpriest, ever having been on the show.
So I believe the EducationalDuct Tape podcast is officially
blessed

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: Yeah, there we go. (22:34):
undefined
It's, it's all, it's all done.
It's, uh,
I'll just get some holy water.
We'll, we'll, uh,

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (22:44):
Thanks.
I've got a, I've
got a a hydro flask over here.
It's, I don't know if it's holy, but,
um,

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (22:50):
It will be when I'm finished with it, Jake.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (22:52):
wow.
Look at that.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: Uh, no, that's a different, it's (22:56):
undefined
a different life, different life.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (22:59):
Right.
Yeah.
And then standup comedian.
how long did you do
that
for?

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (23:02):
Yeah, I did that for about two or three years.
So I was, um, when I left thepriesthood, I thought, what?
Because I love my job.
I love doing it.
Um, but my, I wantedto go a new direction.
wanted to have a family and all of that.
And I thought, what's thething I love about the job?
And it was, makingpeople laugh and feel good.

(23:23):
So when I would do Sunday sermons, Iwould always try and make people laugh.
And, so I was like, you know, I mightactually give standup comedy ago.
So yeah, I tried, I did it for a few yearsand got to the final of a few competitions
and then I was, and then I started totrain to be a teacher and I was, kind
of, there was a bit of a tension betweenbecause, I would get back home late, and

(23:44):
then go do my studies to be a teacher.
So I I had to give up one andit was I Wanted a stable income
so I went for the teaching yeah,

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (23:56):
amazing.
Like, I think, I think,
your bio, we just need to rewriteit to be like, um, priest, comedian,
teacher, podcaster, author, period.
Like
that's it.
Like that's all it says.
Uh, and no, and then the AI educator

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: but it's, yeah, yeah, it's (24:11):
undefined
cool.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (24:14):
What a story.
Okay.
Now our real question.
The real reason I have the AI educatoron the podcast today is to talk about AI.
Of course, , not specifically as wedo with everything in an educational
duct tape plan, we're talking aboutwhat the teacher's trying to do.
And then the answer often is ed tech.
And in this situation, I have a hunchthat Dan Fitzpatrick, the AI educator

(24:36):
is going to mention something, , thatis AI related in his answer to this.
So Dan, my question to you is.
What tool or strategy or tip orsomething like that would you use to
complete teacher tasks more efficiently?
So thinking about the things that ateacher does on a day to day basis,
the whether it's the lesson plans, thegrading, the emailing, the activity

(24:58):
preparing, anything that a teacher has todo regularly, what is a tool or strategy
that you would suggest to help them beinga little more efficient and effective at
that?

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: Yeah, it's a huge question although it's (25:09):
undefined
it's the type of question that shouldhelp anybody who doesn't really know
about AI or was just getting startedjust to kind of start dipping their
toes into it and start playing around.
It's also a huge question becausea lot of these tools, first of
all, there's so many of them.

(25:30):
And secondly, How we usethem is quite subjective.
, I often say to teachers, thisis the first time ever that
we have had computersthat talk our language.
We've had to learn their language fordecades, whether that be coding, literally
learning new languages to speak to thecomputer, or, learning how to use the

(25:53):
app, or, creating a new language, or, theright, the sequence of buttons together
to do what you needed to do and so on.
we're literally now in an era wherethe computer speaks human languages.
Now that's amazing in one sense.
However, in another sense,it's really difficult because
our language is so subjective.
Like, I'm over here in Newcastlein the Northeast of England, you're

(26:14):
in Ohio in the United States.
We both speak English.
However, I bet there's so many things Isay that you just wouldn't understand.
There's so many things youwould say I wouldn't understand.
And also language is a two way thing.
So, uh, I might think I'm being completelyarticulate in what I'm saying but
depending on the person I'm talking toyou, so you might understand what I'm

(26:35):
saying, but somebody else, Who also speaksEnglish, might not clearly understand.
And I sometimes say,like, think of your class.
So you've, let's say you've got20, 30 students in your class.
How many times have you give themsome instructions to do a task and
all 30 of them straight away haveunderstood and then do the task.
it's impossible.

(26:55):
It never happens so it's amazing.
We've got computersthat speak our language.
However, it brings with it somany more complications, which are
basically communication issues.
And so how do we get goodat using these tools?
It's, communication.
So I think,, first andforemost, I think, a
strategy

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (27:15):
that I want to talk about is, Don't think of
this as a technical tool and let's bringup chat GPT as kind of a starting tool
Anybody can go create an account forfree and you can start talking to chat
GPT Which was trained on 300 billionwords worth of information Which is by
the way That amounts of information.

(27:37):
If you try to read it and we readapparently on average a hundred words
every 30 seconds, it would take you 2, 800years to read all of that information at
that pace without, without taking a break.
Yeah.
So it's done its homework interms of the human language.

(27:58):
But still we need to learnhow to communicate with it.
We need to be able to
employ communication techniques,not technical techniques,
getting onto the website.
Is where your technical skills endwhen it comes to chat GPT, what
now has to happen is communication.
And I suppose if you've got a new facultymember coming into your department, it

(28:25):
takes a few months to get used to them.
It takes a few months to kind ofunderstand how they communicate,
what their work rate's like,what you can trust them with.
if they've understood what, you'resaying to them and very similar, we've
got to kind of build a relationship.
It's not, it's not a real relationship.
in that sense, but I suppose I'm usingrelationship as a metaphor and analogy

(28:46):
for, getting to know how it communicates.
And so using the tool like ChatGPT,I think should be the number one tool
at the moment for any teacher, whowants to use AI, simply because it's,
what's known as a frontier AI tool.
So it's always at the cuttingedge of this technology.

(29:10):
And if you go on to it, which I'm suremost people listen to this have, it
looks a bit like a WhatsApp conversationand a Facebook messenger conversation.
it's just a blank text.
chat box, really, except you'renot talking to another human being.
You're talking to one of the most advancedgenerative AI systems ever built, and
therefore you're not limited by kind ofdifferent buttons to press to do this.

(29:36):
And maybe, what somebody else'sidea of how to use AI is.
you just get to talk to itand ask it to do something.
So let's take the very basic exampleof getting it to do a lesson plan.
You literally just have to say to it,write a lesson plan on, I don't know,
the ancient Egyptians for me andthen have a conversation with it.

(29:57):
Because I think as you know, Jake, that.
When you ask it a question like thatthere's no way it's going to be perfect.
It's going to be far from it.
, it's going to be impressive, but it's,it's not going to be perfect because I
think as teachers we're professionals.
even if you've been teachingfor two years or 20 years, you
bring a professionalism with you.
And I think for me it revolves aroundthree main pillars, although I'm sure

(30:19):
there's a lot more, as a teacher.
And that is.
Your knowledge of your subjectcontent, your knowledge of pedagogy,
how to teach it effectively.
And number three, the actualstudents in front of you who are
going to be learning with you.
And I think we still need tobring that knowledge to the AI

(30:40):
because the AI doesn't know that.
The AI hasn't got anyexperience of your students.
It doesn't know pedagogy and whatworks like, you know, and it doesn't
know specifically the type of contentyou need to teach like you do.
So we need to work with it and weneed to bring our expertise into it.
And I think that's a good thing because.

(31:01):
If you could just ask it to do somethingin a sentence and it did it perfectly.
That's when we get into scaryterritory and we get into, kind
of that whole people talking aboutreplacement and AI replacing us, which
I think is kind of a, It's a media.
The media love to writeheadlines about AI replacing us.
Talk to anybody who uses AI regularly.
Talk to anybody who creates AI.

(31:23):
And it's not about replacement.
it's about integrating humanintelligence and artificial
intelligence to get the best results.
And I think as a teacher, inwhat we do, because Our human
intelligence when it comes to teacherisn't just human intelligence.
It's emotional intelligence.
it's the intelligence to be able tocommunicate with a group of young people.
It's the intelligence to be able totake them on a journey and all of

(31:46):
that, that goes on, But then with thisit's like having an AI assistant that
can help us be a bit more efficient.
So, I think always start with, a toollike chat GPT is kind of your main go to
because you've got ultimate customizationof it because you can literally just
type in, "no, I don't want that.
I want this," or "yes, that'sgood, but can you go into

(32:07):
more detail on this point" or.
"Can you self reflect on that answer andgive yourself a rating and then try to do
better" or, and I, and I've got a wholeframework on how to talk these tools.
It's called the prepared frameworkand it's based on evidence as well.
And, it's all, communication methods.
That's all it is.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (32:28):
Yeah, I actually love the PREPARED
framework, seen you share it online.
think we should
mention it here in a moment.
But first I want to point out, Ithink it's really interesting how you
talked about how this is the firsttime technology is as essentially
spoken our language, which is more ofan adjustment than you'd think that
would be intuitively you think like,wouldn't it be great if the computer

(32:49):
just spoke my language, you know,and a reality, it then kind of opens
up all of the possibilities in a waythat can be a little bit overwhelming
to somebody who's never done it.
So I think the, downside to chat GPT orClaude or copilot or any of those basic
generative AI tools is that When you cometo this blank screen and it's a blank chat

(33:11):
with you and the, generative AI, A lotof people are kind of like, what do I do?
Right?
What do I do?
And I think you kind of alluded to this.
you talk to it like you would talk toanother human that you're learning how
they operate and you're trying to getthem to learn what you want from them.
And so you really have to havethis conversation with it.
Like it never does the taskthe right way the first time.

(33:33):
and you realize the flaw in your prompt.
Based on what it does.
You're like, oops, Ishould have told it this.
I should have told it oh, Ididn't realize it would do
this and I should tell it this.
And, yeah, I find when I usethe tools that I'm not actually
performing tasks any faster.
A lot of the time, I'm just performingthem more effectively which
is what efficiently means rightto be as quick as possible, but

(33:56):
also as effective as possible.
And so I find that a task might take methe same exact amount of time when I do
it with a I, but I do it so much betterbecause I'm able to go like, This sentence
right here, I need you to tweak that.
Or I noticed you did itthis way, uh, change this.
And I like, I have these longconversations with AI now getting to the

(34:17):
thing that, that I probably didn't havethe bandwidth to do independently myself.
I could do it just with the AI.
And so I think, I guessall of that is to say that.
I agree that it's amazing to have oneof these frontier AI tools, but it could
be a little bit overwhelming to peoplewho are new to it because you really are
like, I, I miss just hitting menu buttons.

(34:38):
You know every other technology toolI've ever used, I just click the
things and it does it like, it'sclear, like you have a menu, right?
When you go into most technologytools, you have a menu of what's
possible when you go into chat GPT.
You don't have a menu because it'spretty much everything, right?
It could do just about everythingyou want it to do if you

(35:00):
prompt it well enough, right?
And so there's no menu.
We're, literally orderingoff of the menu, you know?
Does that make sense?

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: absolutely. (35:07):
undefined
And I think when you use a tech tool thathas the menu or the list of functions, and

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (35:14):
Mm hmm.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: it's, the tech company saying to (35:15):
undefined
you, this is what we think you need.
Here you go.
And.
And if, they've done theirresearch and it's a good tool, the
chances are , it is what you need.
and it's really good.
however, there's still limitationsthere, but like you say, with chat
GPT, it's not a tech company saying,this is what we think you need.
It's, them going, right.
What do you think you need?

(35:36):
Like it's the autonomy isput straight onto the user.
And I sometimes compare it to let'ssay we got the most intelligent person
in the world and you hired them to comeand stand in your office for the day.
What would you ask them?
and I think , for me, it'd be reallydifficult because It's actually would
probably take me a few days preparationto think well, what should I ask them?

(35:59):
What might I ask that person soit's constructive so that I can take
it away and it can help me And Ithink that's what we've got here.
And I speak to countless teachers whowill open a tool like ChatGPT and just
think, I don't know what to do here.
I don't know what to ask.
I don't know.
And, I think that's wherecommunity comes into this.
The importance , of beingaround people and other teachers

(36:24):
who are using these tools.
So you can get ideas from each other.
So you can suddenly, , share ideasand think, Oh, I never actually
thought about using it like that.
I never thought aboutgetting it to become a.
Literary character in the first person.
So I could have a conversation with them.
And then that's going to spark off lotsmore ideas for you to go well, maybe
I could go down this route and I thinksome of the people who are sharing

(36:45):
the best content online, when it comesto these tools and not necessarily
people in education are just peoplewho are experimenting and pushing the
boundaries of what we can ask it todo and then sharing it and so I think
when I talk about community, it mightnot necessarily Be the people in your
school or your district, but it mightjust be a group of people you follow on
Twitter, LinkedIn, wherever it is, whereyou can just see what are they asking

(37:08):
it to do and what are the content arethey sharing and let it spark off some
ideas.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (37:13):
Yeah.
I know.
I look at so many of those posts Isee online and I'm like, Whoa, I never
thought of doing that, especially inthe early days ChatgPT coming out.
I was like, Whoa, that'sa really cool idea.
and it's not that I'm not capable of thatkind of idea or that kind of thinking.
We just really need to kind ofcrowdsource these kinds of ideas.
it's the idea of the adjacentpossible, which I first heard of in,

(37:34):
George Couros' book, the innovatorsmindset, but he talks about how.
The possibilities for howsomething evolves are impacted by
the things that are adjacent to
it,
right?
And
so

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (37:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (37:44):
to expose ourselves to other people's ideas.
Um, I think you gave me a really coolidea, which is, I think, a, a staff
leader, whether they're a tech coach or aprincipal or a head of school or whatever,
a good tactic, I think, would be to havemaybe a weekly email or something like
that where they share one way one of thestaff members have used AI because they

(38:05):
need to be hearing what they're doing.
So your idea of using AI to bea a person from, from literature
talking to you in the first person.
Like some people wouldn'thave thought of that.
Right.
And so somebody shares that andyou go like, Oh, wow, that's neat.
And the science teachergoes like, Oh, wow.
I could have it be a plant doingphotosynthesis and the social studies
teachers thinking, Oh, I couldhave it be a historical character.

(38:27):
And the math teacher is like,Whoa, that's a really neat idea.
I could have it be anequation and all kinds of
stuff.
Right.
And so the, their ideas
expand outward from the other people's
ideas.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (38:37):
and, and that's happening with me right now.
So when I was thinking of that, I wasthinking of getting it to be actual
humans and whether they be fictionalor nonfictional, but when you said
there actually get it to be a plant,like a spark went off of my head
and I was like, oh man, I, why, whyhaven't I thought about that before?
Like, you can have a plant thatexplains what's going on inside
of itself during photosynthesis.

(38:59):
And, and, and then I suddenly inwhile you were speaking, I was
listening by the way, but I, I.
At the same time, I wasthinking like, why not?
It could be a, you could, you could getit to be a fly in the wall within a,
historical scenario so yeah, even justhaving this conversation has sparked off
things for me, which, which is makingme feel like I can't wait to jump on a
chat GPT and see what it comes up with.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (39:20):
I love the idea of a fly on the wall.
That's a, that's an amazing idea forhow to do it, but I think this is case
in point that we have to share, we haveto talk about think about it because
it's a blank page, because it, coulddo essentially anything we want to
do, but we have to first think of thething, we need to spread those ideas
and hear from other people, and thatbuilds the excitement around it too.
I was thinking earlier whenyou were talking about how.

(39:43):
the other tech tools, they pick whatthe tool could do for you, right?
They're predicting what you're going touse it for and AI really doesn't do that.
It, it allows you to, to do that.
It reminded me of that, thatSteve Jobs quote, back in the day.
And it was a slightly longer quote,but the key part was, he said, our
job is to figure out what they'regoing to want before they do.
And so he'd said when he was, whenthey were making the iPhone, when

(40:04):
they were making the iPad, theywere trying to predict what humans.
Would like and would want beforewe actually were asking for it.
and that's, that's the model that techcompanies are normally going with.
Right.
But, but now AI has kind of flippedthat script where, open AI didn't
need to figure this out before us.
Google didn't need tofigure this out before us.
They don't need to predict what we want.

(40:24):
They've built a tool that canessentially just do it and
learn in conversation from us.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: Yeah, absolutely. (40:30):
undefined
And it's tough.
I mean, it really is difficult.
just sitting down in front of chatGPT, doesn't automatically mean
you're going to come across gold.
You're going to have amazingideas and It's going to do
some amazing things for you.
And I sense that frustration in a lotof schools I visit, I do sense a bit
of a frustration that, some peopleare doing some amazing things with it.

(40:51):
And some people just don't know what todo, even though they've tried it, even
though they've played around with it.
And I think, although thistechnology is fantastic in that
it's not telling you how to use it.
That agency of that is now on us toknow how to use it, requires skill
and it's gonna, require something moreof what we teach our students as well

(41:14):
in terms of lifelong learning skills.
And, how to question and how to evaluateand how to critically analyze and
how how to use maybe something likedesign thinking ideas to to work with
an AI to get the best results possibleBecause we can't just sit in front of
it and expect magic to happen we'vegot to bring skill to the table as well

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (41:35):
Yeah, and those conversations I think are really key.
I think it's interesting as you say, yousay that because I do a lot of work in
personalized learning, and in personalizedlearning, we want students to have agency.
the problem is you can't just goto a kid, like, you have agency,
make some choices, like, have avoice in your learning, like, like,
pick how you want to learn this.
They're, they're not ready to, right?
We have to build that agency, and thenwe have to build the capacity to act

(41:55):
with And so it's kind of the same withthese technology tools, where we, where
we really have to build our skill atusing them before we could use them them.
Some people, I'm sure the first time theyturned on chat GPT had magnificent ideas.
but for me, I was like, um, writea song about me or like write
a story about a guy named Jake.
You know, I like, I didn't likethe ideas were kind of stale.

(42:17):
and I really needed to, to let thoseideas percolate and hear from other
people and see those things being sharedon Twitter and see those things being
shared at conferences that go like,Oh, look at these things I could do.
So let's, let's focus in on thoseeducators who maybe are new to
AI, kind of understand what it is.
they'd love to have it makethem more efficient, but they
just don't know where to start.
So I think, to me, there'stwo different pathways.

(42:39):
Let me see what you think ofthese two different pathways,
and then we'll go from there.
The first are the tools that aremore like the old school technology
tools that we're familiar with thattell us what they could do, right?
They have the menu buttons, right?
So that's the first path.
And those are tools likemagic school, school AI.
they're wonderful tools.
They do some really cool things.
but the menu is already builtand the frontier is not wide

(43:02):
open on those tools, right?
They could do the tasks, butit's kind of already built.
So do you agree with thatbeing the first kind of
way they can go?

undefined
And I think it's probably a bitmore nuanced and what and how
I was described before as well.
And it's it's not limitingit to a certain function.
Actually doesn't it also mightopen it up to new ways of using it.
So I'm thinking like somethinglike school a I, somebody else's
kind built a product around it.
And so you can only useit in a certain way.

(43:30):
For example, creating a bespoke,curriculum bot that your
students are going to talk to.
But then that, what it willalso allow you to do is share
a QR code with your students.
Your students can enter and you canmonitor your students to safeguard them.
So I think some of these tools,are actually amazing in their own
right, and actually can do more than
Chat GPT does.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (43:52):
Yeah.
I think these are great tools.
This is one great path isto try out tools like this.
I think magic school, Showsyou what, is possible, right?
The it's kind of already built todo it, but it shows what's possible.
Same thing.
School AI has some thingsthat it's already built to do.
And it lets you see, it lets you getthose ideas of what you could do.
It's kind of similar to you goingback to your guitar and starting

(44:14):
off by taking a guitar lesson.
You didn't really have freedomover how you played the guitar.
You played the guitar the waythe chords of that song in the
lesson were played, but it allowedyou to see what was possible.
Right?
And so these tools allowyou to see what's possible.
And then I do want to.
Point out what you said there too,that, that both of these tools have
some really great kind of teacherfeatures where they allow you to

(44:35):
monitor what the kid's doing with it.
They allow you to build these walledgardens for the kids to use AI
within and they allow you to see.
like you said that chat bot or thatcurriculum bot that you can make
in school AI, you can go in and seewhat did my students say to the bot?
What did the bot say back?
How did this respond?
And so number one, you could policehow they're using it to make sure

(44:58):
they're using it appropriately.
But number two, you can also peek intotheir learning experience to be able to
give them some feedback and support them.
So I think there's a lotof power with these tools.
Not just in the fact that theyalready have the ideas built in for
what the teacher might do with it.
but they also have some reallycool tools built into them.
are there any other tools that You
would put in with those?

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (45:18):
Yeah, I think magic school's amazing in terms
of getting teachers used to using AI.
I love how they've gone down the routeas well of not even using the word AI.
And I quite like that.
And when I'm doing training withschools, it's kind of a tool I start
with sometimes, especially in aworkshop, and I say to them, well,
this is something you can share withyour colleagues who are apprehensive

(45:39):
or just the thought of AI goes overtheir heads and you can just say to
them, look, you, you go to this website,you click this button and generates
a lesson plan for you or generatesome questions for you or anything.
And I think is it comes in really handy.
And I know if someone's listeningto this thinking magic school
does a lot more than that.
It does.
It does do a lot more than that.

(46:01):
but I think also it's an entrytool for AI, which I really like.
Yeah.
School AI we've mentioned.
there's a, there's acouple of other tools.
I, I tend to show a lot of, I, liketo show us a tool called diffit,
and it's D I F F I T dot M E.
So diffit dot me.
And it's just a fantastic tool for gettingkind of the structure of a lesson in terms

(46:24):
of like the basic content for a lesson.
So you just type in the theme ofwhat you're teaching or you can
upload a resource if you've alreadygot an existing resource, you say
what grade the students are at.
And then what it'll do is it'lljust give you a series of content.
So, for example, an adaptedreading passage, which is tailored
towards the reading age of thegrade level that you've put in.

(46:47):
It will give you some assessmentmaterial in terms of multiple
choice questions, long formanswers, short form answer questions.
It'll give you some keyword definitionsthat correlate to the reading
passage, some images and so on.
So it gives you kind of like that skeletonof a lesson, which then you have to
obviously apply, and use in a dynamic way.

(47:08):
it's also got a great feature whereyou can apply those bits of content
to pedagogically based tasks.
and it lets you download them as aworkbook or as a PowerPoint or as a
Google slide document as well, or asa PDF, which is a really nice feature.
I like that one.
It's very basic.
You don't have to do much,but you get a lot in return.
Um, Another one I really love and Ithink is developing all the time, but

(47:30):
it's at the moment, I think it's onlyavailable for people who are using
Google workspace is a tool called Brisk.
it's a Chrome extension just sits withinyour browser and it has two main features.
It has A feature where, let's say you'rereading an article and you think this
article is going to be brilliant formy students, they're studying about
this, it'll be great to give themsome content or teach them about this.

(47:55):
If you press the brisk icon,it will take that webpage and
allow you to do so much with it.
So, from very simple, changethe reading level of it.
So it'll reproduce that article ata certain reading age, to, it will
turn it into a Google form quiz.
it will turn it into a resource.
it will create a lessonplan around that article.

(48:17):
Lots of really cool ways youcan transform that content.
And then kind of the flip side ofthe functionality of this tool, which
again, is phenomenal when you see it is.
Let's say your students have done somework in a Google Doc or Google Slides.
You click the brisk icon.
You select the rubric or the markscheme or the criteria for that task.

(48:41):
It will then mark and give feedbackto the student of all their work.
And it does that in a few different ways.
It will put the comments in thedocument or it'll put the comments
in actual comment boxes on the righthand side and it was interesting.
I was shown this tool recently at aprobably the top school in in Scotland.

(49:02):
and I think one or two teachers got abit annoyed at me when I showed them this
tool and and probably rightfully so, buttheir argument was, well, this is our job.
Our job is to mark, is to provide studentfeedback, is to understand the progress
of students so that we can design thenext learning experience and so on.
And I agreed with them, but Idon't think that's what this does.

(49:25):
I think for me, there's twosides of giving feedback.
There is the side,which is very technical.
it's literally where you go.
Is this hitting the rubric?
And therefore gettingthe grades that's needed.
And I think that's whatthis does really well.
you will still want to read over it.
Um, and I called one of the chapters inthe AI classroom, outsource your doing

(49:46):
not your thinking, because you'll stillwant to make sure that your thinking is
still at the center of this, but also itdoesn't replace that side of feedback.
That's personal.
that shows the student, you carethat you're in control of their
learning, that you're going to helpthem with their next steps that the
kind of life changing stuff, really.
So it doesn't replace it.
That still needs to be added in as well.

(50:07):
But as kind of Just comparingrubric and giving some feedback.
It's fantastic.
And, so yeah, so brisk, diffitmagic school, school AI.
another one I really like for creatingpresentations is a tool called
gamma, which is G A M M A dot app.
And a bit like how I mentioned withdiffit, you either put a resource in,
or you just search for a theme of whatyou're doing And it will create a full

(50:32):
presentation for you from scratch,which you can then download as a
PowerPoint and convert to slides if youuse slides, it's a great way to start.
If you're like me, a presentation isquite personal, especially for a class
because it has to take into account theirprevious learning and also where you want
to put the assessment in and all of that.
So again, it's not going to be 100%.

(50:55):
But it might save you 30%.
it might save you 40%.
and really help you be a bit moreefficient, So, yeah, those are
kind of my top tools at the moment.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (51:05):
yeah, that's an
amazing list.
I think I like what you said therethat quote outsource you're doing not
you're thinking that I think that's soimportant with everything we do with AI.
it can't really do the thinkingas well as we can, and we
shouldn't let it do the thinking.
we need to let it help us withthe doing part so that we can be
more efficient, which is our goal.
and that's why it's not going to replace.

(51:25):
Teachers, because it can't dothe thinking the way we can.
That needs to be us doing the thinking.
What we need to do is help haveit help us be more efficient.
And so I think when that when thoseteachers are talking about using
brisk to do their feedback, um,Anything that auto grades, like,
you know, we've had technologytools that autograded for years.
We, had, you know, those scantronsyou know, the machines, you

(51:47):
put the multiple choice teststhrough and it grades it for you.
we've had those for, 50 years.
I don't even know how long it'sbeen that they've been around.
Maybe longer than that.
and it's not bad if amachine is doing the grading.
What's bad is if we take the student'swork, we put it through the machine,
quote unquote, and then, Give that to thestudent without ever looking at it, right?

(52:08):
we need to use the tool to do thedoing of the grading or the marking.
And then we need to use itto give the kid the feedback.
We need to use it to understandtheir progress towards mastery.
We needed to use it to understandwhere they're at in their journey.
We need to help them supportthe kids as they grow, use the
technology, use the AI to do thedoing, and then us do the thinking

(52:30):
about what does the kid need next?
Where is the kid?
Is the kid ready for.
The next phase of theirlearning, or do they need some
kind of remediation on a skill?
So we need to do somethinking based around it.
So we let the tools makethe job easier for us.
But then we still have to do thethinking that goes along with it.
And I think all, I think it was fivedifferent tools you named there.

(52:51):
All five of these different toolsdo a really nice job of introducing
teachers to what's possible with AI.
By still kind of having thatquote unquote menu of options,
that they could use with it.
And I think I, I hadn't thought of thisuntil this conversation, but it's really
like cognitive load theory, right?
We think about when we're doing somethingnew, there are so many different elements

(53:14):
to what our brain has to think about.
So when we first use ai, ateacher or whoever it is, has to
think about how do I use the AI.
And the task that I'mtrying to do with the AI.
Whereas if we start with one of thesefive tools that have some pre built
options in them, they can come inand they don't have to think about

(53:36):
what they're going to do with it.
Or how to use it because thetool is doing that for them.
They could just think about their pedagogyor their curriculum or whatever it is.
And so it reduces the number of thingsthat teacher has to think about.
Whereas if we're using somethinglike chat GPT, we have to do kind of
both parts of the thinking that's ahuge power, but it also for somebody

(53:58):
new to it can be kind of difficult.

undefined
and I think we're at thestart of this process.
And I often compare it to the latenineties when it comes to the internet
and kind of the explosion of differenttypes of, software and, so I think
it's, it is about taking that cautiousapproach and just going, right,
well, let's just try one or two.
Let's, see, can we trust the tool?
Can we trust the people behind it?

(54:20):
is it abiding by our, standardsin terms of privacy and security?
is it actually having animpact on our teachers?
If it's a tool that's used directlywith students, is it actually
having an impact on learning?
And, really going through strategicallywhat we want it to do for us.
And I suppose we all do that.
Every school, Every college everyuniversity, does that already.

(54:43):
And it's kind of not throwing the babyout with the bathwater just because the
shiny new technologies come along, which.
Let's be honest is amazing.
But at the end of the day,it's still a platform.
It's still a bit of software.
It's still a tool to use.
And let's not lose our heads over this.
Let's still put it by the samestandards we would any other tool.

(55:04):
And maybe we can narrow it downjust to a few tools that actually
might be really, really handy.
That might be really helpful and we'llstick by our standards of what we want
in our school or college or university.
And I've got a website called AI educator.
tools and that's the web address.
AI educator.
tools where we're kind of broughttogether a few hundred different tools

(55:26):
out there where you can search them.
You can check their privacy policies.
You can, look to see if they'repaid or free or freemium.
You can look at theirfunctionality and what they do.
if you're looking for a placeto start here, I think if you,
Just starting on the journey.
Maybe just start with thetools we've Just mentioned.
But if you're thinking, actually, let'ssee what's going on out there in terms
of maybe some more bespoke or more nicheeducational AI and check out AI educator

(55:52):
dot tools.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812: Yeah, great resource. (55:53):
undefined
I've explored it a little bitbefore and I, need to go back to it.
And I love that you have that out thereand are sharing that, so that people
can see that I think one of the bestthings you mentioned there is the privacy
policies being on there because that'ssomething we really have to keep in mind.
and so thank you for curatingthose, for people on there.
Um, okay.
So I don't want to take up your wholeday for this interview, Dan, but I

(56:15):
do want to point out, so we talkedabout, there's kind of two pathways.
One is.
Try a specific tool that already hasspecific tasks kind of built into it.
and just try those out.
Cause that'll help you.
Number one, it's going to be help you dothings efficiently and do awesome things.
Number two, it's going to helpyou see what's possible with AI,
that you might do outside of thosetools with other generative AI.

(56:37):
so let's say we go.
Okay, I've used Magic School, or I'veused diffit, or I've used Brisk, and now I
see what I could potentially do with AI.
I'm going to now go to this other thingthat's not in their menu of options.
So I'm going to hopinto ChatGPT to do this.
and so now we're ready to tryout one of these Frontier tools,
as you called them earlier.
they can kind of do anything, right?

(56:59):
So if I'm doing that, youmentioned your, prepared acronym.
again, I don't want to take up yourwhole day with this, but if you would
give us kind of the elevator pitch,the, quick summary of what prepared is.
Cause I've, I've seenyou share this online.
I absolutely love this acronym.
I think it's a really good wayto think about how we prompt AI.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (57:16):
Yeah.
And I'll go through it, but don'tthink that, when you're chatting
with chat GPT, or Google Gemini,that you have to use all of this.
I think this is just a set of levers thatin your conversation with a tool like
that, if you're not getting it to be asgood as you want it to be It's just a
few different levers that you may want topull in order to get a better response.

(57:40):
and I think of this as a funnel Remember.
I, we were talking about earlier,the free version of chatGPT , 300
billion words worth of information.
We need to get thesethings to focus for us.
And that's where thequality will come from.
It'll come from focus.
So it's Some levers that we canpull, in order to get that focus.
So, prepared it's an acronym.

(58:01):
So the first P is propose.
It's essentially tellingit, what you want it to do.
Introducing the idea to it.
The next one is role.
Uh, so the R is role and soundsquite bizarre at first, but actually
getting it to act in a certain role.
So if you're getting it to do a lessonplan on, I don't know, earthquakes,
you might want to say to it thatit's a professional, with a PhD in

(58:24):
earthquakes and also is amazing atdesigning good learning experiences.
If, and like we said before, you mighteven want to go to The extent of getting
it to actually be a certain person.
Um, now why give it a role quite simply?
We're just trying to get it to focuson some context knowledge so that
it can be more specific tools likechat GPT are trained to please.

(58:47):
So if you ask it to be a person,it will use that knowledge To
give you answers that you need.
So it's just kind of another angle toget it to focus on some specific content.
The next bit is, is, a bitof an umbrella term, which is
just explicit instructions.
And it's just a way to say, tellit everything it needs to know
the amount of times I work inworkshops with teachers and, and,

(59:09):
they say, well, it didn't do this.
It didn't, it didn't do this theway I wanted it to do and so on.
And I think the, the.
The most simple reply is, yeah,exactly, is, did you tell it
that you wanted it to do it?
it can't read your mind.
You need to be really explicit with it.
And I think, for me, that categorycomes into four different parts.
The first bit is a justgeneral instructions.

(59:31):
So, for example, if it's a lessonplan, you need to tell us things
like how long is the lesson?
How many students?
Do they have access to iPads?
Any general informationthat it needs to know.
And then it comes down to the threepillars that I mentioned before.
So subject knowledge, pedagogicalknowledge, and knowledge
of the actual students.

(59:52):
So tell it What you need to focus onin terms of content, tell it if it's if
you're getting into a pedagogical task orsomething like a lesson plan, tell it what
pedagogies you use and you might have togo into detail with it and number three.
Give it some information about theactual students you're going to be
teaching if it's going to be somethingfor students now Obviously, we don't

(01:00:12):
give it personal information aboutstudents But let's say you've got
three students who are dyslexic.
You might want to say three.
of my students are dyslexic Could youmake this more accessible to them as well?
so given that that specific informationthat those explicit instructions
and then the next P is Presentation.
So how do you want theinformation presented to you?

(01:00:33):
So that could be format.
And there's, there's not with thesetools, especially chatGPT there's
not much formatting options, butyou could ask for headings to write
in a table, to write in paragraphs,ChatGPT can waffle on quite a bit.
It can, it can say in a paragraph whatit just needs to say in a few words.
So get into it right in a concise wayand concise bullet points, for example.

(01:00:55):
You can also give it a tone of voice ifyou want to be like uber professional
and how it speaks or familiar.
And also things like if it'sa resource, you might want to
tell it the reading age to,
So that's prep.
The thing with prep is, And that'show this model started really, this
framework, it's very transactional.
You essentially say into the AI, dothis, be this person, include this,

(01:01:18):
present it like this, do it for me.
It's a transactional approach, butactually most of the research suggests
that, it's conversational, it'scollaboration that gets the best results.
So I extended it to the preparedframework based on this bit of research
that came out, at the end of November.
Last year, and so theA is essentially ask.

(01:01:39):
So so you get your response, and thenyou say to it, ask me some questions
that will help you write a betterresponse, write a better resource, write
a better lesson plan, whatever it is.
So you're putting the agency back onto theAI and saying, right, self reflect, look
through what you've created and figureout what more information you need in

(01:02:01):
order for this to be an amazing resource.
And then ask me those questions.
And what I like to do is I like to justvery quickly say, right, write these in
concise bullet points, these questions andorder them from Which questions are going
to have the most impact to the least.
And I might answer afew of those questions.
And some of them are, kind of,moments where you go, Oh, why
didn't I tell her that already?

(01:02:23):
That's Like you, like the, uh,yeah, it's a right lesson plan.
Then it says, well,what are the objectives?
What are you trying to achieve?
Yeah.
And you're like, actually, yeah,I should have told you that.
That's a really obvious one.
So it's just a nice way toget it to reflect the Next.
Yeah.
One is an R, which is for rate, andyou want to just say to when you're
coming towards the end, just say toit something like, what would you rate

(01:02:44):
this response or this resource, orthis lesson plan on a scale of 1 to 10?
And that's not the important bit.
ChatGPT likes to giveitself 7, 8 or 9 out of 10.
Always does.
It loves its homework.
But you, that's not the important bit.
The important bit iswhat you say to it next.
And what you do is you say something like,In a table, um, present to me the criteria

(01:03:06):
or the rubric or the mark scheme that youhave used to come up with this rating.
And, It will give you the rubric thatit's used, and then you can look at that.
And as a teacher, for example,you could say, well, actually,
that doesn't match my standard.
I've got a much higher standard than that.
And then you edit it.
So you say to it, actually, forthis criteria, this is what a

(01:03:29):
top rate answer or a top rateresource would look like for me.
And when you've had that conversation,then you simply just say to it, now
I've updated the rubric, Try for a 10out of 10 this time, and because it's
designed to please, it will then takeon that on board and go again, and
it will match more of your standard.
Now, sometimes when I say that,people get worried and think, Oh

(01:03:50):
my goodness, am I going to have todo this every time I use ChatGPT?
Not at all.
Um, once you've put the workin, just put the work in once.
And I think especially if you've gotto produce a really nice rubric table
for a lesson plan, I think It's copyand paste that into, I like to use
a Google Doc, and I just keep a bankof things that work with ChatGPT.
So I'll copy and paste that table in,and then next time I'm getting it to do

(01:04:13):
that specific task, from the very getgo, I'll copy and paste that table back
in and say, use this, as your rubric.
And so you're not reinventingthe wheel every time.
So, the E so
Now we're up to the E is emotions.
Now this, research paper foundthat if you use this phrase
specifically, my job depends on this.
So you're appealing to its emotions,even though it doesn't have

(01:04:36):
emotions, You get a 10 percent onaverage better quality answer and
I think it's just because It is.
It sounds bizarre, but I think all that'shappening there is you're raising the
stakes and because it's designed to, towant to please you, it'll try even harder.
And the last one is D, which is diversity,which is one I've added recently,

(01:04:58):
which is, We all know AI can be biased.
Um, it's really easy to look for the biasthat we're conscious of and, eliminate it.
However, what about thebias we're not conscious of?
so I suggest saying something to, chatGPT at the end of the process, like,
are there any underrepresented voicesin this resource or in this lesson plan

(01:05:20):
or whatever you've created with it andthen see what it says and then you could
work with it and get it to integratethose voices back into the resource.
Um, Yeah.
so, like I said, don't think everytime you sit down with chatGPT
or Google Gemini, that you haveto go through that whole process.
Start just by having a chat causethat's what they're designed for.

(01:05:40):
But then if you think to yourself,actually, this is not as good as it
could be, maybe pull on a few of thoselevers and not necessarily in that order.
You might want to gostraight for the ask bit.
You might want to gostraight for the rate bit.
Yeah.
Uh, however, whatever works foryou, um, it's, it's some techniques
that you can just pepper inthere to, to try and get a more

(01:06:01):
specific response.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812 (01:06:03):
I could see myself using the prep portion every time.
Always doing P R E and P and then decidingthe A R E and D, which parts I'm going
to use to get me to the level that Ineed to be And I kind of do use P R E P.
Like before, before I saw your acronym,I was like, that's kind of what I was
starting to do with some of those things.

(01:06:23):
And then I was like, Oh yeah, there it is.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (01:06:25):
Yeah.
And it's because that'swhat you do, isn't it?
it goes back to what wewas talking about earlier.
Like, let's say you've got an internworking with you in your school and.
you're asking them to do something.
you do propose whatyou're asking them to do.
You expect that person to takeon a role because you're in
a professional environment.
You, be explicit with your instructionsbecause You, need to tell them what to do.
And then you might also tell themWhatever they're doing for you, how you

(01:06:49):
want it to be presented back to you.
And so it's a natural thing.
it's, what we do.
And a lot of us won'teven think about this.
We'll just incorporateinto what we do anyway.
It's just a way to get us to thinkabout it and to drive the point home
that those techniques that we usewith other humans in a professional
situation can also be used withChatGPT when using it for professional

(01:07:11):
situations.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812: Yeah, yeah, that's great stuff. (01:07:12):
undefined
So I think you've, kind of nailedthe two different paths that people
need to go on as teachers to,leverage AI to be more efficient.
and those paths are using one ofthose five tools that you mentioned.
That have a menu of options forwhat they could do, to get exposure
to some different possibilities.
The other is using one ofthose frontier AI tools.

(01:07:34):
You mentioned like chat GPT, keepingthose three pillars you mentioned,
that we have in mind and perspective,our knowledge of our subject, our
knowledge of pedagogy, our knowledgeof our students, to use those tools.
And then using that prepared framework,to prompt it really effectively.
and we talk about prompting a lot, butyou're reminding me To have a conversation
with it, to converse with it, not justprompt, but converse, to ask to, you

(01:07:55):
know, communicate with the to reallyget the result that I want out of it.
So some really good tips forfolks looking to get more
efficient through using AI tools.
Um, Dan, I wish I could have you talk forlike three more hours about this stuff.
I appreciate so much that you've taken somuch time for this because we've gone way
beyond what we said we're going to usefor this, but it was just such good stuff.

(01:08:18):
I just want to keep talkingabout it So I apologize.
And I think people are going to feellike they want to keep hearing more.
We can't do that.
So what they're going to want to do.
For sure is check out yourwebsite, the AI educator.
io.
Check you out on social mediaon, on X at the AI educator X,
but also check out the book.
So give us a real quick, there's oneout already, which is the AI classroom.

(01:08:42):
And there's one coming soon.
Correct.
Mm

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812 (01:08:45):
Yes, the AI classroom is out there and still
very much relevant it's a year old, butwe try to make it something that would
be still relevant for a few years andit's still very much is goes through
the prep framework, has chapters on Whatskills are we going to need as teachers,
as educators, as students, as leaders?

(01:09:07):
and that's why we called it theultimate guide, because if you're
a school, it covers a lot ofwhat you need to know right now.
so it's quite a big book.
It has a lot in there.
that's done really well.
It's been a bestseller.
it's used by people all overthe world, which is amazing.
um, and, I'm also in the next fewmonths, or maybe by the time this comes
out, it shouldn't be too far off, goingto be bringing the book out, called,

(01:09:27):
infinite education, the four methods to,create a future with AI in education.
So, it's quite a practical book.
I've been working with schools,colleges, universities over the
last 12 to 18 months, helping themstrategically integrate AI and
build a five year plan for theirorganization around this technology.

(01:09:48):
so it's taken the learningfrom that, and I've Put it into
a nice four method approach.
And so it addresses the why, why do weneed to strategically think about this?
And that's essentially becausefor me, strategy is essentially
leadership in the future.
So if we want to continue to lead ineducation or we want to start leading in
education, then we need a strategy to dealwith what's coming because we're still

(01:10:10):
in the early days of this technology.
So it goes through how you can startthat process and how you can start
to, scope your organization and what'sgoing on out there, how to shape what
you want to do, how to influence yourorganization and how to align your
organization on a future ready strategy.
And yeah, hopefully
it'll

(01:10:30):
be out soon.

jake_1_07-08-2024_091812: that sounds amazing. (01:10:32):
undefined
so folks definitely check out the website,check out Dan on social media, check
out the book, the AI classroom and checkout that new book when it comes out.
and also check out Dan has a course,the AI premium strategy accelerator.
I'll make sure links to all of thethings are on the show notes that
you guys can get access to them.
Dan, thanks so much forbeing here with us today.
We really, really,

(01:10:52):
appreciate it.

dan-fitzpatrick_1_07-08-2024_141812: Thanks, Jake. (01:10:53):
undefined
It's been a pleasure.

Jake (01:10:57):
And that wraps our chat with Dan Fitzpatrick.
Wasn't he incredible, so muchgood wisdom, so much cool stuff
that prepared acronym alone.
I'm going to use that.
And those recommendations of five specifictools, Uh, and just a blast to talk to.
He was great.
Uh, but I'm curious, do you have anyalternative strategies or tools for
completing teacher tasks more efficiently?

(01:11:19):
So we talked about magic school.
Brisk diffit.
School AI and gamma.app.
So those were five tools that we talkedabout that we thought were nice, easy
tools for educators who were new to AI,especially to start off with, to start
using AI, to benefit from the power ofAI and maybe to see the possibilities

(01:11:40):
of going a little bit deeper.
So do you have any other ones?
Do you disagree with any of those?
Do you have any recommendations,like a glowing recommendation
of one of those five.
And then we talked about using whathe called frontier apps, chatGPT,
Gemini, Claude, things like that.
And he talked about some strategies,like the prepared framework.

(01:12:03):
And like those three differentlenses that he talked about
do you have any additionalrecommendations to go with that?
If you do, or if you just have somethoughts, on, what Dan and I discussed,
here's your chance to share them.
Here's your chance to share themwith me, to share them with Dan,
to share them with the otherpeople who are listening right now.
You just need to head over to the padletat eduducttape.com slash Padlet, or you

(01:12:29):
can leave me a voice message on speakpipeat eduducttape.com slash SpeakPipe.
You can find both of thoselinks in the show notes.
All you do is go there and recorda message with your feedback.
The thing we missed, the thing youagree with, the thing you'd add on the
thing from this episode, that reallyhelps you, whatever, this is your
chance to share your voice with theother duct tapers who are listening.

(01:12:52):
And I would really love to hear whatyou're thinking and don't forget
next week, if I edit the podcast fastenough, I'll be featuring some of your
insights right here on the podcast.
So make sure to tune in.
I hope it's a week from now.
If not, it'll be two weeks from now.
Whenever it is, make sureyou're subscribed to the show.
So when that next episode drops withall of those insights, yours and other

(01:13:15):
listeners, you'll get to hear them.
And as we talked about earlier,some of you will be winning
a free copy of my book.
For sharing on thatduct taper share space.
But before we sign off for today, Let'stake a quick look at some ed tech news.
That's caught my attention.
First off Canva recently got aglow up with a new homepage and

(01:13:36):
the new editing experience youcan now streamline your workflow.
Customize your workspace.
And collaborate moreeffectively with your team.
Also Canva, just launched courses.
Making it easy to create learningmaterials from your designs.
I'm wondering if this could be a newway to present information to learners.
I haven't tried it out yet, but I'mjust wondering, like, If we could create

(01:13:59):
learning materials on canvas courses.
Using our designs.
Can we use those with students?
Could they be a tool to use in ablended learning kind of environment?
Because now with canvas courses, youcould turn presentations and videos
and more into self-paced lessons,the students can follow and track.
I think this has some promise folks.

(01:14:20):
I haven't tried it yet, but if youdo, I'd love to hear what you think.
And finally, I alluded to this recently,but I wanted to make it clear Padlet.
Now lets you add videos in comments.
So previously.
You could record a video on a Padlet andthen people could comment on it with text.
Now they can add a video or whateveras a post on Padlet, and you could

(01:14:41):
respond back to it with videos.
I think this new feature could bea game changer in your classroom.
especially, if you're looking for areplacement for flip, I've tried it.
And it's easy peasy, by the way, thosethree stories that we just talked about
links will be in the show notes so thatyou can go get some more information.
And if you try those thingsout, I'd love to hear about it,
reach out and tell me about it.

(01:15:06):
Well, just like how Mr.
Belvedere ends his cleaning cyclewhen his dust bin is full it's
time for me to end this episode.
I sure do love thatRoomba automation magic.
And I also love the automation magicfrom today's sponsor VIZOR, which
makes managing school devices, a breezefrom sending out repair updates to
reminding students to return theirChromebooks VIZOR handles it all.

(01:15:30):
Just like Mr.
Belvedere handles those potato chipcrumbs that I dropped on the floor.
For special pricing and some awesomeswag head over to VIZOR.cloud/jake
that's V I Z O r.cloud/jake.
Trust me.
VIZOR will keep your devicesas clean and organized as Mr.

(01:15:51):
Belvedere keeps my floors.

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