October 23, 2024 • 37 mins
As the world changes rapidly, traditional high school education remains largely the same. In this episode, host Jason Firestone sits down with John Thanos, a forward-thinking leader, to discuss how high schools can evolve to better prepare students for the future.
From personalized learning and real-world skills development to navigating challenges like curriculum innovation, John shares his insights on transforming education to meet the demands of modern society. Tune in to explore how high schools can foster adaptability, critical thinking, and lifelong success in students, ensuring they’re not just ready for graduation but for life beyond the classroom.
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Welcome to Elevate the Education Podcast brought to you by Jeffco Public Schools. Join us as we explore the learning landscape that empowers students, educators and lifelong learners to take their educational experience to new heights. Be sure to hit subscribe and leave a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. Happy Wednesday, everyone. Today, we're going to learn about a topic that's increasingly on the minds of educators, students, families, the business, industry and policymakers alike. The need to reimagine the high school experience. As the world changes rapidly around us. Many of us are asking why the traditional high school model hasn't kept up. Now, to help us navigate this conversation, I'm thrilled to have John Thanos with us today. John has been deeply involved in the educational, leadership and innovation. He's worked extensively with initiatives focused on reshaping the way high schools serve students. His work centers on creating more flexible, personalized learning environments that prepare students not just for graduation, but for life beyond the classroom. Now, just last month, I had the privilege to observe classrooms at the school that John is a principal at. Witnessing how John and his team are creating a more personalized and transformative high school experience. John. Today I'm going to put myself in your shoes as well. I'm going to try to But, I mean, I can't imagine the effort that goes into schools while you're taking a risk on innovating the high school experience through curriculum design and more. I mean, that's a huge task, right? You're a principal at the same time as you're trying to innovate around the student experience while at the same time trying to support educators while at the same time, you know, just being a stand up community member at Chatfield. So that's amazing. I tell people oftentimes that sometimes it feels like I'm driving the Titanic, but I'll take that as you will. That's awesome. So we're going to try to navigate around an iceberg. And as we looked at, it takes a while to turn the ship, but as long as it is a big ship and a comprehensive high school, in all seriousness, it's a huge ship. I would say it's kind of like you're the mayor of a town. And so I'm going to just welcome you to elevate education. And again, it's a pleasure to have you here. Now, I know the Chatfield community knows how much you write what's not to love, but can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? Tell us about your background, your career, why you love being the principal at Chatfield High School? Yeah, so I've been fortunate. I'm in my fourth year at Chatfield Senior High. It's a truly incredible place. It is a comprehensive high school in every sense of the word, and we are very fortunate to serve the student body, the community that we do it as a student body that is dying to be involved, that wants to buy into our community. And because we have a place for everyone, you really get the opportunity to see students thrive across the different things that they love. I've been at Chatfield for six years. I was an assistant principal as well. There originally got into education to coach athletics and that was following in the footsteps of my father, who was an English teacher and an athletic director. And I followed in those footsteps. I was an English teacher myself, used to coach varsity football and varsity baseball, and then just through a series of steps and really finding a love and passion for leadership ended up in the role that I'm in today. And I just love the opportunity to impact so many lives in a positive way. So let's give thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself. Also add that John is not just a great all around human being who leads the school community with passion and thoughtfulness. But he's also very funny. You lead with a lot of humor. I've been in some of your team meetings where you're leading with humor, so I know that that's an integral part to get through the grit of a school day. Things can feel very, very heavy if you don't stop the laugh from time to time. And luckily, as a high school principal, you get plenty of opportunities to make fun of yourself on a daily basis. So there's plenty of comedy fodder sitting right here, and we tap into that from time to time. So and the students will also make lots of fun of you around any mistake you make or just the general everyday happenstance. Absolutely. It is on a daily basis that I have a ridiculous photo taken of me. Just the other day I was trying to get our video board set up in the gym and sure enough, I turned around and I got two students dancing behind me, being recorded, getting a full ticktock up and running, and all I can do is shake my head. But lucky for me to be around those kids and to be fodder for them as well. So now reimagining the high school experience is all about innovation, equity, engagement and preparedness for the future. I've heard educator innovators like yourself use the phrase preparing for future careers that aren't here yet. I mean, John, you are obviously at the cutting edge and a respected leader in this space. Can you share a bit about the vision and need for rethinking the high school educational experience altogether? Yeah, so if we're being honest with ourselves a lot about the high school experience in the traditional sense and neighborhood high schools hasn't changed over the course of the last hundred years. You can go back and look at report cards from years, years back, and I know some of my fellow leaders here in Jeffco have done this where they've gone back and they pulled their grandparents report card out of a box. And they look at how it compares to a current student's report card and you'll see things like Algebra One World, geography, the traditional classes that you and I took still sitting on that report card. And so a lot of it is looking in the mirror and saying, okay, can a system still be serving in the way that it needs to serve somebody if it hasn't shifted dramatically over the course of 100 years, when we know that the industries around us have shifted so much at the same time, that's something our students know and are willing to tell us. When you talk to students, I think they're being critical, more critical than they've been in the past of really looking and saying, why are we doing this and asking that question of us on a regular basis? And so that combination of recognizing that a lot about the system hasn't changed in traditional schooling over a long period of time, and that the students recognize it themselves, like really sparks this fire to say we need to look forward and we need to be thoughtful about what we're doing every single day with our students so that they're developing the skills that they'll ultimately need for whatever that future is going to be. And so as you think about like the motivator behind reimagining high school, are there things beyond just like what the students are saying or in some ways students are demanding of us at this point That's right. Yeah. So I think there is the very real sense that like students are demanding of us, that we have an answer for when they ask that question, why? But I think we're also hearing the same thing from industry partners and just seeing shifts in society in terms of looking critically, what are the jobs that we need filled over the next X number of years and what is the educational space to look like to make sure that students are prepared for and connected to those jobs? And so I think there's a more diverse need in terms of what it is that people are stepping into as careers. And there's also a critical eye and things like cost of college. And I think all of that is coming into a melting pot where students are more critical of, I'm not just going to go to four year college because my parents did or I thought I needed to. I'm going to truly try to understand like what the next step is for me and what's the streamlined pathway to this career. While we also have people in industry saying we need workers, we need people that can support us in these different spaces. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you have continued education. Some of you can come directly to us, and in some cases, yes, we need you to have a ton of education. And so I think some of that has been teased out a little bit more lately in a way where students are more connected to what next steps they may need to take. They're thinking more critically about that. And it all like plays out in the classroom and in our schools on a daily basis where we have to be able to answer that y for them. Right. And be responsive to those needs is certainly, I think, a challenge I can imagine for you, for the educators in the classroom, in your school and schools all around and really thinking about I think we talk a lot about the technical, but we also talk about the adaptive right. What we hear from industry partners is I need students who can do X, Y or Z, but I also need them to be able to have a conversation. I need them to be able to critically think and really be more than just a robot in the industries that exist right now, in the conversations that we have with industry and when we are talking to people who are looking to hire young workers, they'll often tell you, like, we will teach the skills of this job. Like I think we're in a stage right now where a lot of jobs require such specific skills, such specific knowledge for them to work in that particular space that they're in a space where they're like, We know we have to provide the training. What we're doing is hiring people, not resumes necessarily. Like who are the people that are going to be adaptable? Who are the students that are going to be able to collaborate with others? Who are the ones that have the critical thinking processes that are going to be able to take that training and turn it around for us and really turn it into something and do what we ask of them. And so while we have, you know, these different steps that we're trying to hit in terms of content, the thing that is really most important is those skills and the adaptability and students having what they need to be good people and be reliable people, that employers know that they can give them the pieces that they need to to be successful. really what I hear you saying is some individualization personalization, because every young person is a different places in their lives. And I looked at your. Last night in Chatfield High School. For those of our listeners who don't know, there's a comprehensive high school sitting around 1800 students. Yeah. And so as you think about a student body of 1800 individualized, personalized experiences, you talk a little bit about the benefits of doing that. And then the real challenge of doing that when you think about a classroom of 30 plus people in a classroom. Yeah. So that breadth or that size of a school with 1800 students, it allows you to offer programing in our business. Like the more students you have, the more ability you have to add different people, which can add that variety of experiences and the adult lenses, which ultimately results in programing for students. So we have programing across the board and are fortunate to be able to offer high school level and like concurrent enrollment college level courses across pretty much every subject area. But we're talking all the way from culinary to auto to business to students learning engineering to students that are going to learn health sciences. I mean, everything across the board is available to them because we have that size and that ability. Now, when you're at that size, it can be challenging to get everyone on the same page in terms of like what innovation looks like and truly how to be adaptable and to share the knowledge that people need to know to say, Okay, what does it really look like to prepare people for the year 2030, 2035, 2040, when you have that variety of experiences? So when I say things like it really feels like you're driving the Titanic, sometimes it's like, yes, like these small turns are going to result in something big with getting everybody on the same page. I think when you're looking at the personalization of 30 students, you really have to keep in mind that what you are training these students to do, teaching these students to do, preparing them to do is not necessarily content based, but it truly is in that training of the person and making sure that they have adaptability, the communication skills, the critical thinking skills to walk into any environment and be able to flourish. And so regardless of the content that you're teaching, it's important to always keep in mind that you are preparing the person to just be able to respond in a variety of situations and to take on further education from whoever their employer may be later on. And so that's the piece that when you walk into that room, there's the personalization where you want to get to know every student down to an individual level so that you can be responsive in terms of who they are. And you have that connection to them and you can build some relevancy for them. And keep in mind, through the structures that you're putting in front of them every day, that it's really more about them building who they are as people than the content. Yeah, and that's the beautiful thing about being an education is seeing that that child is that beautiful, flourishing young person while at the same time we have these great needs, right, of going through developmental changes. I can attest that being in your school and I was in a robotics class, which just amazing and the teacher was amazing and how they were preparing to have their robots in the competition. I think one of your maybe your instructional coach said that you all have had stuff go to Nasser and then I was in an AP English class and we're teaching through more of those traditional ways that you and I were in a classroom. Can you talk a little bit about the need to innovate curriculum and instruction at the same time, knowing that you have like both of those classrooms that exist in your school? There is this combination of you have to strike the right balance between teaching content that we know is just critical base that all of our citizens should have in society. I think what we have the most ownership of and what we are really trying to promote our teachers to do at my school is to think critically about the teacher moves and what the result of their teacher moves are going to be. So when I'm looking at my segment of time, whether it be 50 minutes with students or 90 minutes with students that day, how am I setting up that segment of time in which students are engaging with others around them in a variety of ways, in ways that are both predictable and unpredictable? How are they using the tools that are around them, which can either be the people that are in the room or other tools like a I, or in the sense of what you're describing, it may be as legitimate as like robotics and different things like that. How are they navigating all of the different tools that are around them? And all the while, how are they making sure that there is that harmony with that diversity that is in the room? Because that's a huge. Part of when you do step out into your career is that you're able to do those things. You're able to connect with the people around you. You're able to use the resources that are around you and all the tools that are around you and ultimately keep harmony in a way where you guys are all working towards something. And so regardless of the content and this could happen in a robotics class, but you can also be just as innovative in the way that students are studying something like world history. If you think about the teacher moves and you think about the ways that you're setting up students to be challenged in those different areas of using tools and connecting with others. So I really appreciate you saying how you're helping develop resiliency and not just, again, students who just walk through a content and feel like, okay, well, I got A, B or C or I didn't pass the class. So talk a little bit about why this hands on learning Can you talk about why that's so important? Some examples as you walk classrooms and you're really that instructional leader in your building. So when you think about it, like even in your adult life, that is very rare that you're in a situation in which you are sitting still for 7 hours, right? There's always different ways in which you're engaging with the world around you. And so hands on can be a variety of things. I mean, it can mean that you are literally hands on in terms of auto, literally hands on, in terms of the robotics, in terms of engineering hands on, in terms of trying to break a write code, whatever it may be. And we have all of that that exists in our building in that traditional sense, where students would sit and they're like, I am doing something that is hands on right now. What we try to bring to is in those more traditional content classes, things like English, things in our social studies classes, in our math classes, we try to take an instructional approach and an educational approach in which we are sort of breaking the fourth wall and getting students in situations in which they are doing hands on activities through the way that they're interacting with the students around them or through bringing real world topics into the classroom to say, I'm dissecting something that is happening in the world around me right now, or through group projects in which they are creating something that could easily be reproduced as your traditional three page paper. But how much more meaningful is it when it is a presentation, when it is a website, when they're creating their own podcast? And how much more relevance, how much more skill does that build up in them? How many different outside the box things are they learning through? So I think in our sense, like, yes, they're in school for 7 hours a day and yes, they're going through and they're interacting with six different classes. But how are they being challenged with six different types of major activities each day that are ultimately building up school, but that have them moving, that have oxygen going to their brain regardless of the class that they're in, because it has been flipped in a way in which it is somewhat hands on. Right. And I'm sure that like for your educators who are innovative and they're always thinking out of the box, I'm sure that's exciting. How are you as a leader hopping along your staff who maybe this is new for them or this feels like it may be a little bit scary? Yeah. So the thing we have to remember is that the vast majority of educators that are in our building are lifelong educational people, myself included. I openly tell myself like, Hey, here's the things that we're looking for to. Make things hands on. I went to school and then went to more school to go back to school to work and continue to work in school. So part of it is like educating ourselves and making them comfortable in terms of like bringing in different industry partners, bringing in guest speakers, saying things like, I would like every single class to take a field trip this year in some way, shape or form to go see how this content exists out in the world that makes them more comfortable with just understanding the world around them. The second thing is like in a traditional education sense, like there are look for is that you can find how do you get every single student in the class to engage with something? And that can be as simple as ensuring that you have turn and talks in which students are writing about something, turning, sharing with a partner, then having to share with another partner. Or it can be this big, larger idea of how have we created an entire project that the students are learning the skills as they go to try to build this larger project for a larger audience? Right. And I think the example of the one that I give around Nasr is probably pretty interesting to our listening audience, is that they're thinking about, well, you know, I have a eighth grader who's coming up in high school. How does an industry partnership like that develop and what is that continued relationship to develop tools that are both relevant to your students and relevant to an industry or, you know, a government agency like NASA? Yeah. So we are Chatfield and I would recommend it to anybody have a what we call a career hub or a postsecondary center in which there is at least one person, sometimes more, that is stationed in a center in your building that is specifically just focused on anything a student may need. Post-Secondary wise, that person can set up job shadows for our students. That person can set up larger interviews for our students. The people that are working in the career hub set up our teachers field trips. So we take that burden away a little bit structurally by just having our teachers say, Hey, here's what I'm looking for, and then we have other people that go out and look for it A lot of it is borne out of just passionate teachers thinking critically about what is the next layer to put on to this unit that I've been doing for years that can really make things more hands on and tangible. Something like Masa, we've been partnered with now it's called the Nascent Project with our engineering classes for over a decade, in which students are presented with problems from NASA that are things like you have to build a leg that would be on a space shuttle spaceship that would ultimately be able to land somewhere in space and be able to take that impact and soften the blow so that you're not damaging something on the ship. Mean ten years ago that relationship was born through a passionate teacher who looked at, how can I make this connection? And so we have partners from NASA that come in multiple times during the semester to analyze legitimately what these students are building with their robotics, to say this would work or this isn't, this would not. And we've had multiple pieces of things that students have built actually go into space as part of what that partnership looks like And we also tap into an alumni base. Now we have alumni that graduated back in 2015, 2016, that were a part of this initial cohort that are now working for NASA. And they legitimately say, like, what was it born out of? What made them want to do the work that they do every day? And they're like, it started with this project that was in room 8 to 18 and Chatfield Senior School. So they remember that room number 11. That's right. When you place students in a position where they can find what they truly love and like unlock something in them for the rest of their life. And there's a ton of power in that. And they do remember those types of details. Among the all the other stuff that goes into the high school experience, like that type of thing rises to the top, I think. Yeah. And I think what you said is like you're unlocking the passion of a student, but you as a leader are giving permission, it sounds like, to unlock the passion of your teachers. We use the phrase What if we? So I always close whenever we have a meeting and things like that. I'm like, We are going to spend some time now with your different content teams, whatever it may be. And we always try to every time we have a PD day or after we have a meeting in which we do some professional learning in this space, just put people together in a room where we say, what we want you to ask is the question, What if? We thought that and fill out the rest of that. So we've been doing something for a long time. When we asked that question, what if we and we just take the time to step back and then we say, What if we did this? What if we did this? What if we tried this one time? That's where amazing things like the ACA partnership were born out of. And I think, again, it's that innovation in the classroom. It's an innovation from the leadership seat that use it. And I'm sure that other principals who are listening are probably asking themselves this question. But, John, what are the some of the major ideas to reimagine the high school from the seat of a principal, whether they be big or small lessons, maybe that you've learned, things that you've tried and weren't successful or the things you've tried that were hugely successful. When I think of innovating and reimagining high school and reimagining what that experience could be like, if you're a school leader, you really have to scaffold for your staff in the same way that you would want your teachers to scaffold for your students. I mean that there needs to be multiple entry points in a way that feels like it's tangible for some for every single person. But here's the entry point for me. I think when we started this work, we started in like an imaginative space and we're asking that question, what if we in that is really large and it's abstract and it allows some people who are dreamers to be like, This is what I've been waiting for somebody to remove the reins and for me to run with this and try something that has been sitting in the back of my head for a long time that I never felt like I could that I could push towards So there is a lot of power and just removing the reins and saying, like, I want you to dream, feel like you can execute something, live out your dream, and there's power in that. And if that's all you do like, you will see a good chunk of your staff that cannot think in that way or that does not dream in that way or really need steps laid out for them that won't take any steps. So I think balancing that type of like dreaming or moving the reins with going back to what is really good tier one instruction look like for a class with high engagement. And that is the entry point for a number of your teachers is like looking at things that they already understand. Here's my unit. I'm just going to adjust one aspect of the unit. I'm just going to adjust what the final product is going to be. And so you really have to when you're looking at this, take a look at your staff first gauge after the first time that you look at them and say, dream gauge what their eyes look like. Gauge what they do over the course of the next month and then identify them more quickly. I think when I sat in the principal chair and I removed the reins, I, I wish I would have been more responsive to the people who are not ready to jump in right away. And I found that footing now, but it definitely took me longer than it should have to recognize. Okay, some people have a deer in the headlights look and they need the steps laid out with them at the same time while these other dreamers are running with them and pushing them. Yeah. And because I'm a dreamer, sometimes I struggle with structural. What I hear you saying is, hey, let's get together and innovate together and use the strengths that exist in the room as educators who are professional and really care about the well-being and the future of these young people. When we do our dreaming time or what if we time, nobody sits by themselves. Even if there's a situation where they're teaching different, they're the only person that is teaching them their content. We are purposeful in putting them in the room with other people who are only teaching that content to still look at the broader aspect of like, How are we challenging students? What are we doing with students? What are the teacher moves? We're not just getting caught up in a pigeonholed box where they're working as individuals. And if you are in a place in which people are just trying to work individually, that's the exact opposite of what you're trying to do with your students in terms of we know that the collaboration is where the power comes from and really connecting students is where the power comes from. And so we have to replicate that with our adults as leaders as well. So, John, you and I both have young kids. So as you think about when your own children are in high school a number of years from now, what would you hope that high school would look like? So I would hope that a lot of aspects of what I have currently in my high school and honestly what my high school experience was back years ago still existed. So many of our memories are built on things like a homecoming week, like an assembly before a homecoming game. Being at a game on Friday night to cheer on some classmates, being able to participate in a band, in a choir, in an orchestra, in a theater performance, on a team, and being a part of those community aspects and so many of the skills that we've. And talking about that, we say students have to develop. These are developed in those settings that are all school adjacent. And it's important to me that all of that still exists. At the same time, I think there's a lot of things that we've done that have locked ourselves into certain buckets of thinking and thinking that students have to take this course, then this course, then this course to fulfill a math requirement. They have to take this course, this course, this course to fulfill an English requirement. And I would just ask if there are more creative ways for students to attain. Yes. This type of exposure to the skills that we need an in English or this type of exposure to the skills that we need in math without the report card that we have today looking the exact same as it did 100 years ago. And I would hope that we just have more movement in that area and that there's more choice in what the students take to fulfill some of those buckets and some of those graduation requirements so that there's just more choice that students feel like in this age in which they're being more critical of than us of ever. Like they're the ones that are driving the ship of their education and their future. I think all of that can exist while we still have some of the amazing experiences of high school that are so sentimental and that student and that people remember forever still in place. So really what you're saying is we're not abandoning we're not asking to abandon the things of the past, the the high schools that we all know and love and shaped us as young people into the adults we are today. We're just kind of deconstructing what some of those parts are and then building up stronger and better to meet the needs of the students and the future that they're facing. Absolutely. I think the students are asking, why are we doing this? And our answer needs to be better than just because or which I because I tell my three year old because it's been that way. Right. I know better. That was ultimately where we ended up. Like we need to work to a place where we're able to answer that question with this level of confidence that we're not feeling on our heels in answering that question. Right. I would say if someone asks you a question and you can't answer it to satisfy their question, Maybe you don't know the answer yourself. Like the future of re-imagining high school is giving ourselves permission to maybe not know the answer, but to work together to develop that in partnership with our industry partners, our students, our families, our community. So again, John, I'm always the dreamer and I always think think big and maybe not so structural. So for our structural friends who are out there, who are high school principals or educational leaders, what are three tangible ways that you can leave our audience or three tangible things you can leave with our audience around reimagining high school. So the first thing that I would say is I've talked about the the skills that we continue to hear from industry partners that they feel students need to walk in when they are hiring people and recognizing that they're hiring people. Those skills have been laid out by a number of research studies. So I would point everybody, there's an organization called America Succeeds that has done what is called the Durable Skills Framework, that has driven a lot of the work that we've done here in the durable skills framework. It breaks down over the course of looking at job that America succeeds, looked at over 88 million job descriptions and job titles and they boiled down. Here are the first ten major buckets of skills that students need to know. And then here are the 100 skills that feed into those ten specific buckets. And it's not things like knowing Microsoft Office, it is things like being able to critically think it is, things like being able to communicate, being able to collaborate, executing skills of leadership. And so while we can fall into a content driven world, what's important is that we say, how are we building these durable skills that we know are important through studies, that these are truly what careers and industry partners are looking for? How can we build those in which just the content being the vehicle or the content being how that stuff is being practiced. So you need to go look at the America Succeeds Durable Skills Framework to ground yourself in what is truly important that students need to know. The second is look at your own school student perceptions survey data. Or if you don't have that perception survey data, you need to create some sort of form that students are responding to two or three times a year with the questions that are most important to your school in this area, things like, do you see what you You are learning in school as irrelevant to the world outside of school and or your future? And are you seeing that connection? Are you seeing our school? Do you see Chatfield Senior High? Do you see this school as helping you to connect you to your world and your future? Do you have clarity on what you're going to do after high school? Are you excited to be at school every day? Do you feel like you belong at school? Are you proud to be a Chatfield Charger? Those are all questions that we ask our students three times a year and we ask them to be as responsive, as honest as they can possibly be on that survey. And sometimes you'll be shocked by what they have to say. You'll find things like, Well, yes, we're spending all this time talking about how what you're learning right now is going to matter towards your future. But still, only 50% of your students are seeing that connection. And so we're missing the other half and things like that may pop up for you. And having that data can spark the why for your staff and really make that connection for them. The other thing that I would suggest in that area is doing empathy interviews with a select group of students. Ask those survey questions, those student perception questions, but then ask them why they responded that way. Our staff, what they did was we recorded via we used an AI tool to record and transcript exactly what the students had said. Then we plug that into another AI tool and we said, Give us the ten things that our students are recommending that we do to make their high school experience better. And we took that directly back to our staff, along with videos of our students telling us how to make the high school experience better. And you'll be amazed at how that will spark the fire of people actually wanting to make a change or actually take a critical eye to what they're doing. And so those are some of the major steps that we've taken. The final step, I would say, is tap into this balance of allowing your teachers to dream. Giving them space and time on a professional learning day or a PD day just to dream. And laying out with your leadership team what would be the next step for teachers that may not feel comfortable dreaming towards getting to the type of Tier one instruction, the type of instruction we want to see in every class and spell that out very, very clearly for your teachers. And so those are the three next steps that I would take. And we've done that at my school and it's unlocked a lot of conversation. It's pushed our teachers. It's left us feeling challenged. But that's ultimately what our students need us to feel is pushed and challenged so that we can be responsive to what they need. You're breaking that cognitive sweat, just like we're asking our students, it sounds like. Yeah. Thank you for that. And education leaders, I hope you were taking note. And I do really appreciate you exploring tools like A.I. as an educational leader, because I think our young people are asking us, why can't we use these tools in our classroom? So I love that you are leading by example and modeling the way around how to use innovative tools to create different pathways, not just educational pathways, but sometimes for our own selves, neuro neural pathways that need to be reshaped and reformed. So that wraps up our conversation. I do want to leave you with the ability to just kind of give us your final thoughts. Yeah. So if you're thinking as an educational leader, why, what should be my Northstar or what is the goal that I want to keep in mind for myself as a leader about what I want to accomplish? I think about every day and it's the goal that I walk in with every day, that what I want is for every single student at our high school to have some sort of connection to their future, some sort of experience that has had them feel connected to their future. And I always refer to it as the day after graduation. I want them to feel connected to what it is they're going to do the day after graduation. And what I want for students is when they're walking across the stage at graduation is to feel pure joy and not the anxiety of what is next for them. And so that is the driving force for me. It's why I show up every single day is thinking about on that final day that they're with us, that penultimate day after they've been with us for years and years and years. Are they going to be in a place where they can truly enjoy their accomplishments, feel that joy, feel connected to their next step, and how can we avoid them being in that space in which they may be feeling anxiety that is very, very real. If we don't do the work we need to do to connect them to what we owe our young people, as giving them that sense of self-confidence as they walk across the stage. And not only are they fulfilling the requirements of Jeffco public schools in order to graduate, but they're really prepared to launch into their lives, which is what honestly we owe them. I just want to thank you for your innovation, your leadership and what you bring to work every day, the risks that you take and the life that you are giving of yourself to make. The world a better place, not just for your students, for your staff, but really for our community. And so for that. Thank you. Thanks, Jason. I am very lucky. I love what I do, no doubt. Awesome. Well, thanks again. Thanks for listening. Elevate Education is a production of Jeffco Public Schools, Colorado. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe. Write us and share with others who might be interested. Do you have questions about this episode or suggestions for a future podcast topic? Share with us by visiting the sharing form in the podcast description. This episode was made possible by Jeffco Public Schools, our producer Mikayla Herrman, our host team Matt Valero, Tara Kenya and Jason Firestone, our editors. We added podcast.
Welcome to Elevate the Education Podcast brought to you by Jeffco Public Schools. Join us as we explore the learning landscape that empowers students, educators and lifelong learners to take their educational experience to new heights. Be sure to hit subscribe and leave a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. Happy Wednesday, everyone. Today, we're going to learn about a topic that's increasingly on the minds of educators, students, families, the business, industry and policymakers alike. The need to reimagine the high school experience. As the world changes rapidly around us. Many of us are asking why the traditional high school model hasn't kept up. Now, to help us navigate this conversation, I'm thrilled to have John Thanos with us today. John has been deeply involved in the educational, leadership and innovation. He's worked extensively with initiatives focused on reshaping the way high schools serve students. His work centers on creating more flexible, personalized learning environments that prepare students not just for graduation, but for life beyond the classroom. Now, just last month, I had the privilege to observe classrooms at the school that John is a principal at. Witnessing how John and his team are creating a more personalized and transformative high school experience. John. Today I'm going to put myself in your shoes as well. I'm going to try to But, I mean, I can't imagine the effort that goes into schools while you're taking a risk on innovating the high school experience through curriculum design and more. I mean, that's a huge task, right? You're a principal at the same time as you're trying to innovate around the student experience while at the same time trying to support educators while at the same time, you know, just being a stand up community member at Chatfield. So that's amazing. I tell people oftentimes that sometimes it feels like I'm driving the Titanic, but I'll take that as you will. That's awesome. So we're going to try to navigate around an iceberg. And as we looked at, it takes a while to turn the ship, but as long as it is a big ship and a comprehensive high school, in all seriousness, it's a huge ship. I would say it's kind of like you're the mayor of a town. And so I'm going to just welcome you to elevate education. And again, it's a pleasure to have you here. Now, I know the Chatfield community knows how much you write what's not to love, but can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? Tell us about your background, your career, why you love being the principal at Chatfield High School? Yeah, so I've been fortunate. I'm in my fourth year at Chatfield Senior High. It's a truly incredible place. It is a comprehensive high school in every sense of the word, and we are very fortunate to serve the student body, the community that we do it as a student body that is dying to be involved, that wants to buy into our community. And because we have a place for everyone, you really get the opportunity to see students thrive across the different things that they love. I've been at Chatfield for six years. I was an assistant principal as well. There originally got into education to coach athletics and that was following in the footsteps of my father, who was an English teacher and an athletic director. And I followed in those footsteps. I was an English teacher myself, used to coach varsity football and varsity baseball, and then just through a series of steps and really finding a love and passion for leadership ended up in the role that I'm in today. And I just love the opportunity to impact so many lives in a positive way. So let's give thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself. Also add that John is not just a great all around human being who leads the school community with passion and thoughtfulness. But he's also very funny. You lead with a lot of humor. I've been in some of your team meetings where you're leading with humor, so I know that that's an integral part to get through the grit of a school day. Things can feel very, very heavy if you don't stop the laugh from time to time. And luckily, as a high school principal, you get plenty of opportunities to make fun of yourself on a daily basis. So there's plenty of comedy fodder sitting right here, and we tap into that from time to time. So and the students will also make lots of fun of you around any mistake you make or just the general everyday happenstance. Absolutely. It is on a daily basis that I have a ridiculous photo taken of me. Just the other day I was trying to get our video board set up in the gym and sure enough, I turned around and I got two students dancing behind me, being recorded, getting a full ticktock up and running, and all I can do is shake my head. But lucky for me to be around those kids and to be fodder for them as well. So now reimagining the high school experience is all about innovation, equity, engagement and preparedness for the future. I've heard educator innovators like yourself use the phrase preparing for future careers that aren't here yet. I mean, John, you are obviously at the cutting edge and a respected leader in this space. Can you share a bit about the vision and need for rethinking the high school educational experience altogether? Yeah, so if we're being honest with ourselves a lot about the high school experience in the traditional sense and neighborhood high schools hasn't changed over the course of the last hundred years. You can go back and look at report cards from years, years back, and I know some of my fellow leaders here in Jeffco have done this where they've gone back and they pulled their grandparents report card out of a box. And they look at how it compares to a current student's report card and you'll see things like Algebra One World, geography, the traditional classes that you and I took still sitting on that report card. And so a lot of it is looking in the mirror and saying, okay, can a system still be serving in the way that it needs to serve somebody if it hasn't shifted dramatically over the course of 100 years, when we know that the industries around us have shifted so much at the same time, that's something our students know and are willing to tell us. When you talk to students, I think they're being critical, more critical than they've been in the past of really looking and saying, why are we doing this and asking that question of us on a regular basis? And so that combination of recognizing that a lot about the system hasn't changed in traditional schooling over a long period of time, and that the students recognize it themselves, like really sparks this fire to say we need to look forward and we need to be thoughtful about what we're doing every single day with our students so that they're developing the skills that they'll ultimately need for whatever that future is going to be. And so as you think about like the motivator behind reimagining high school, are there things beyond just like what the students are saying or in some ways students are demanding of us at this point That's right. Yeah. So I think there is the very real sense that like students are demanding of us, that we have an answer for when they ask that question, why? But I think we're also hearing the same thing from industry partners and just seeing shifts in society in terms of looking critically, what are the jobs that we need filled over the next X number of years and what is the educational space to look like to make sure that students are prepared for and connected to those jobs? And so I think there's a more diverse need in terms of what it is that people are stepping into as careers. And there's also a critical eye and things like cost of college. And I think all of that is coming into a melting pot where students are more critical of, I'm not just going to go to four year college because my parents did or I thought I needed to. I'm going to truly try to understand like what the next step is for me and what's the streamlined pathway to this career. While we also have people in industry saying we need workers, we need people that can support us in these different spaces. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you have continued education. Some of you can come directly to us, and in some cases, yes, we need you to have a ton of education. And so I think some of that has been teased out a little bit more lately in a way where students are more connected to what next steps they may need to take. They're thinking more critically about that. And it all like plays out in the classroom and in our schools on a daily basis where we have to be able to answer that y for them. Right. And be responsive to those needs is certainly, I think, a challenge I can imagine for you, for the educators in the classroom, in your school and schools all around and really thinking about I think we talk a lot about the technical, but we also talk about the adaptive right. What we hear from industry partners is I need students who can do X, Y or Z, but I also need them to be able to have a conversation. I need them to be able to critically think and really be more than just a robot in the industries that exist right now, in the conversations that we have with industry and when we are talking to people who are looking to hire young workers, they'll often tell you, like, we will teach the skills of this job. Like I think we're in a stage right now where a lot of jobs require such specific skills, such specific knowledge for them to work in that particular space that they're in a space where they're like, We know we have to provide the training. What we're doing is hiring people, not resumes necessarily. Like who are the people that are going to be adaptable? Who are the students that are going to be able to collaborate with others? Who are the ones that have the critical thinking processes that are going to be able to take that training and turn it around for us and really turn it into something and do what we ask of them. And so while we have, you know, these different steps that we're trying to hit in terms of content, the thing that is really most important is those skills and the adaptability and students having what they need to be good people and be reliable people, that employers know that they can give them the pieces that they need to to be successful. really what I hear you saying is some individualization personalization, because every young person is a different places in their lives. And I looked at your. Last night in Chatfield High School. For those of our listeners who don't know, there's a comprehensive high school sitting around 1800 students. Yeah. And so as you think about a student body of 1800 individualized, personalized experiences, you talk a little bit about the benefits of doing that. And then the real challenge of doing that when you think about a classroom of 30 plus people in a classroom. Yeah. So that breadth or that size of a school with 1800 students, it allows you to offer programing in our business. Like the more students you have, the more ability you have to add different people, which can add that variety of experiences and the adult lenses, which ultimately results in programing for students. So we have programing across the board and are fortunate to be able to offer high school level and like concurrent enrollment college level courses across pretty much every subject area. But we're talking all the way from culinary to auto to business to students learning engineering to students that are going to learn health sciences. I mean, everything across the board is available to them because we have that size and that ability. Now, when you're at that size, it can be challenging to get everyone on the same page in terms of like what innovation looks like and truly how to be adaptable and to share the knowledge that people need to know to say, Okay, what does it really look like to prepare people for the year 2030, 2035, 2040, when you have that variety of experiences? So when I say things like it really feels like you're driving the Titanic, sometimes it's like, yes, like these small turns are going to result in something big with getting everybody on the same page. I think when you're looking at the personalization of 30 students, you really have to keep in mind that what you are training these students to do, teaching these students to do, preparing them to do is not necessarily content based, but it truly is in that training of the person and making sure that they have adaptability, the communication skills, the critical thinking skills to walk into any environment and be able to flourish. And so regardless of the content that you're teaching, it's important to always keep in mind that you are preparing the person to just be able to respond in a variety of situations and to take on further education from whoever their employer may be later on. And so that's the piece that when you walk into that room, there's the personalization where you want to get to know every student down to an individual level so that you can be responsive in terms of who they are. And you have that connection to them and you can build some relevancy for them. And keep in mind, through the structures that you're putting in front of them every day, that it's really more about them building who they are as people than the content. Yeah, and that's the beautiful thing about being an education is seeing that that child is that beautiful, flourishing young person while at the same time we have these great needs, right, of going through developmental changes. I can attest that being in your school and I was in a robotics class, which just amazing and the teacher was amazing and how they were preparing to have their robots in the competition. I think one of your maybe your instructional coach said that you all have had stuff go to Nasser and then I was in an AP English class and we're teaching through more of those traditional ways that you and I were in a classroom. Can you talk a little bit about the need to innovate curriculum and instruction at the same time, knowing that you have like both of those classrooms that exist in your school? There is this combination of you have to strike the right balance between teaching content that we know is just critical base that all of our citizens should have in society. I think what we have the most ownership of and what we are really trying to promote our teachers to do at my school is to think critically about the teacher moves and what the result of their teacher moves are going to be. So when I'm looking at my segment of time, whether it be 50 minutes with students or 90 minutes with students that day, how am I setting up that segment of time in which students are engaging with others around them in a variety of ways, in ways that are both predictable and unpredictable? How are they using the tools that are around them, which can either be the people that are in the room or other tools like a I, or in the sense of what you're describing, it may be as legitimate as like robotics and different things like that. How are they navigating all of the different tools that are around them? And all the while, how are they making sure that there is that harmony with that diversity that is in the room? Because that's a huge. Part of when you do step out into your career is that you're able to do those things. You're able to connect with the people around you. You're able to use the resources that are around you and all the tools that are around you and ultimately keep harmony in a way where you guys are all working towards something. And so regardless of the content and this could happen in a robotics class, but you can also be just as innovative in the way that students are studying something like world history. If you think about the teacher moves and you think about the ways that you're setting up students to be challenged in those different areas of using tools and connecting with others. So I really appreciate you saying how you're helping develop resiliency and not just, again, students who just walk through a content and feel like, okay, well, I got A, B or C or I didn't pass the class. So talk a little bit about why this hands on learning Can you talk about why that's so important? Some examples as you walk classrooms and you're really that instructional leader in your building. So when you think about it, like even in your adult life, that is very rare that you're in a situation in which you are sitting still for 7 hours, right? There's always different ways in which you're engaging with the world around you. And so hands on can be a variety of things. I mean, it can mean that you are literally hands on in terms of auto, literally hands on, in terms of the robotics, in terms of engineering hands on, in terms of trying to break a write code, whatever it may be. And we have all of that that exists in our building in that traditional sense, where students would sit and they're like, I am doing something that is hands on right now. What we try to bring to is in those more traditional content classes, things like English, things in our social studies classes, in our math classes, we try to take an instructional approach and an educational approach in which we are sort of breaking the fourth wall and getting students in situations in which they are doing hands on activities through the way that they're interacting with the students around them or through bringing real world topics into the classroom to say, I'm dissecting something that is happening in the world around me right now, or through group projects in which they are creating something that could easily be reproduced as your traditional three page paper. But how much more meaningful is it when it is a presentation, when it is a website, when they're creating their own podcast? And how much more relevance, how much more skill does that build up in them? How many different outside the box things are they learning through? So I think in our sense, like, yes, they're in school for 7 hours a day and yes, they're going through and they're interacting with six different classes. But how are they being challenged with six different types of major activities each day that are ultimately building up school, but that have them moving, that have oxygen going to their brain regardless of the class that they're in, because it has been flipped in a way in which it is somewhat hands on. Right. And I'm sure that like for your educators who are innovative and they're always thinking out of the box, I'm sure that's exciting. How are you as a leader hopping along your staff who maybe this is new for them or this feels like it may be a little bit scary? Yeah. So the thing we have to remember is that the vast majority of educators that are in our building are lifelong educational people, myself included. I openly tell myself like, Hey, here's the things that we're looking for to. Make things hands on. I went to school and then went to more school to go back to school to work and continue to work in school. So part of it is like educating ourselves and making them comfortable in terms of like bringing in different industry partners, bringing in guest speakers, saying things like, I would like every single class to take a field trip this year in some way, shape or form to go see how this content exists out in the world that makes them more comfortable with just understanding the world around them. The second thing is like in a traditional education sense, like there are look for is that you can find how do you get every single student in the class to engage with something? And that can be as simple as ensuring that you have turn and talks in which students are writing about something, turning, sharing with a partner, then having to share with another partner. Or it can be this big, larger idea of how have we created an entire project that the students are learning the skills as they go to try to build this larger project for a larger audience? Right. And I think the example of the one that I give around Nasr is probably pretty interesting to our listening audience, is that they're thinking about, well, you know, I have a eighth grader who's coming up in high school. How does an industry partnership like that develop and what is that continued relationship to develop tools that are both relevant to your students and relevant to an industry or, you know, a government agency like NASA? Yeah. So we are Chatfield and I would recommend it to anybody have a what we call a career hub or a postsecondary center in which there is at least one person, sometimes more, that is stationed in a center in your building that is specifically just focused on anything a student may need. Post-Secondary wise, that person can set up job shadows for our students. That person can set up larger interviews for our students. The people that are working in the career hub set up our teachers field trips. So we take that burden away a little bit structurally by just having our teachers say, Hey, here's what I'm looking for, and then we have other people that go out and look for it A lot of it is borne out of just passionate teachers thinking critically about what is the next layer to put on to this unit that I've been doing for years that can really make things more hands on and tangible. Something like Masa, we've been partnered with now it's called the Nascent Project with our engineering classes for over a decade, in which students are presented with problems from NASA that are things like you have to build a leg that would be on a space shuttle spaceship that would ultimately be able to land somewhere in space and be able to take that impact and soften the blow so that you're not damaging something on the ship. Mean ten years ago that relationship was born through a passionate teacher who looked at, how can I make this connection? And so we have partners from NASA that come in multiple times during the semester to analyze legitimately what these students are building with their robotics, to say this would work or this isn't, this would not. And we've had multiple pieces of things that students have built actually go into space as part of what that partnership looks like And we also tap into an alumni base. Now we have alumni that graduated back in 2015, 2016, that were a part of this initial cohort that are now working for NASA. And they legitimately say, like, what was it born out of? What made them want to do the work that they do every day? And they're like, it started with this project that was in room 8 to 18 and Chatfield Senior School. So they remember that room number 11. That's right. When you place students in a position where they can find what they truly love and like unlock something in them for the rest of their life. And there's a ton of power in that. And they do remember those types of details. Among the all the other stuff that goes into the high school experience, like that type of thing rises to the top, I think. Yeah. And I think what you said is like you're unlocking the passion of a student, but you as a leader are giving permission, it sounds like, to unlock the passion of your teachers. We use the phrase What if we? So I always close whenever we have a meeting and things like that. I'm like, We are going to spend some time now with your different content teams, whatever it may be. And we always try to every time we have a PD day or after we have a meeting in which we do some professional learning in this space, just put people together in a room where we say, what we want you to ask is the question, What if? We thought that and fill out the rest of that. So we've been doing something for a long time. When we asked that question, what if we and we just take the time to step back and then we say, What if we did this? What if we did this? What if we tried this one time? That's where amazing things like the ACA partnership were born out of. And I think, again, it's that innovation in the classroom. It's an innovation from the leadership seat that use it. And I'm sure that other principals who are listening are probably asking themselves this question. But, John, what are the some of the major ideas to reimagine the high school from the seat of a principal, whether they be big or small lessons, maybe that you've learned, things that you've tried and weren't successful or the things you've tried that were hugely successful. When I think of innovating and reimagining high school and reimagining what that experience could be like, if you're a school leader, you really have to scaffold for your staff in the same way that you would want your teachers to scaffold for your students. I mean that there needs to be multiple entry points in a way that feels like it's tangible for some for every single person. But here's the entry point for me. I think when we started this work, we started in like an imaginative space and we're asking that question, what if we in that is really large and it's abstract and it allows some people who are dreamers to be like, This is what I've been waiting for somebody to remove the reins and for me to run with this and try something that has been sitting in the back of my head for a long time that I never felt like I could that I could push towards So there is a lot of power and just removing the reins and saying, like, I want you to dream, feel like you can execute something, live out your dream, and there's power in that. And if that's all you do like, you will see a good chunk of your staff that cannot think in that way or that does not dream in that way or really need steps laid out for them that won't take any steps. So I think balancing that type of like dreaming or moving the reins with going back to what is really good tier one instruction look like for a class with high engagement. And that is the entry point for a number of your teachers is like looking at things that they already understand. Here's my unit. I'm just going to adjust one aspect of the unit. I'm just going to adjust what the final product is going to be. And so you really have to when you're looking at this, take a look at your staff first gauge after the first time that you look at them and say, dream gauge what their eyes look like. Gauge what they do over the course of the next month and then identify them more quickly. I think when I sat in the principal chair and I removed the reins, I, I wish I would have been more responsive to the people who are not ready to jump in right away. And I found that footing now, but it definitely took me longer than it should have to recognize. Okay, some people have a deer in the headlights look and they need the steps laid out with them at the same time while these other dreamers are running with them and pushing them. Yeah. And because I'm a dreamer, sometimes I struggle with structural. What I hear you saying is, hey, let's get together and innovate together and use the strengths that exist in the room as educators who are professional and really care about the well-being and the future of these young people. When we do our dreaming time or what if we time, nobody sits by themselves. Even if there's a situation where they're teaching different, they're the only person that is teaching them their content. We are purposeful in putting them in the room with other people who are only teaching that content to still look at the broader aspect of like, How are we challenging students? What are we doing with students? What are the teacher moves? We're not just getting caught up in a pigeonholed box where they're working as individuals. And if you are in a place in which people are just trying to work individually, that's the exact opposite of what you're trying to do with your students in terms of we know that the collaboration is where the power comes from and really connecting students is where the power comes from. And so we have to replicate that with our adults as leaders as well. So, John, you and I both have young kids. So as you think about when your own children are in high school a number of years from now, what would you hope that high school would look like? So I would hope that a lot of aspects of what I have currently in my high school and honestly what my high school experience was back years ago still existed. So many of our memories are built on things like a homecoming week, like an assembly before a homecoming game. Being at a game on Friday night to cheer on some classmates, being able to participate in a band, in a choir, in an orchestra, in a theater performance, on a team, and being a part of those community aspects and so many of the skills that we've. And talking about that, we say students have to develop. These are developed in those settings that are all school adjacent. And it's important to me that all of that still exists. At the same time, I think there's a lot of things that we've done that have locked ourselves into certain buckets of thinking and thinking that students have to take this course, then this course, then this course to fulfill a math requirement. They have to take this course, this course, this course to fulfill an English requirement. And I would just ask if there are more creative ways for students to attain. Yes. This type of exposure to the skills that we need an in English or this type of exposure to the skills that we need in math without the report card that we have today looking the exact same as it did 100 years ago. And I would hope that we just have more movement in that area and that there's more choice in what the students take to fulfill some of those buckets and some of those graduation requirements so that there's just more choice that students feel like in this age in which they're being more critical of than us of ever. Like they're the ones that are driving the ship of their education and their future. I think all of that can exist while we still have some of the amazing experiences of high school that are so sentimental and that student and that people remember forever still in place. So really what you're saying is we're not abandoning we're not asking to abandon the things of the past, the the high schools that we all know and love and shaped us as young people into the adults we are today. We're just kind of deconstructing what some of those parts are and then building up stronger and better to meet the needs of the students and the future that they're facing. Absolutely. I think the students are asking, why are we doing this? And our answer needs to be better than just because or which I because I tell my three year old because it's been that way. Right. I know better. That was ultimately where we ended up. Like we need to work to a place where we're able to answer that question with this level of confidence that we're not feeling on our heels in answering that question. Right. I would say if someone asks you a question and you can't answer it to satisfy their question, Maybe you don't know the answer yourself. Like the future of re-imagining high school is giving ourselves permission to maybe not know the answer, but to work together to develop that in partnership with our industry partners, our students, our families, our community. So again, John, I'm always the dreamer and I always think think big and maybe not so structural. So for our structural friends who are out there, who are high school principals or educational leaders, what are three tangible ways that you can leave our audience or three tangible things you can leave with our audience around reimagining high school. So the first thing that I would say is I've talked about the the skills that we continue to hear from industry partners that they feel students need to walk in when they are hiring people and recognizing that they're hiring people. Those skills have been laid out by a number of research studies. So I would point everybody, there's an organization called America Succeeds that has done what is called the Durable Skills Framework, that has driven a lot of the work that we've done here in the durable skills framework. It breaks down over the course of looking at job that America succeeds, looked at over 88 million job descriptions and job titles and they boiled down. Here are the first ten major buckets of skills that students need to know. And then here are the 100 skills that feed into those ten specific buckets. And it's not things like knowing Microsoft Office, it is things like being able to critically think it is, things like being able to communicate, being able to collaborate, executing skills of leadership. And so while we can fall into a content driven world, what's important is that we say, how are we building these durable skills that we know are important through studies, that these are truly what careers and industry partners are looking for? How can we build those in which just the content being the vehicle or the content being how that stuff is being practiced. So you need to go look at the America Succeeds Durable Skills Framework to ground yourself in what is truly important that students need to know. The second is look at your own school student perceptions survey data. Or if you don't have that perception survey data, you need to create some sort of form that students are responding to two or three times a year with the questions that are most important to your school in this area, things like, do you see what you You are learning in school as irrelevant to the world outside of school and or your future? And are you seeing that connection? Are you seeing our school? Do you see Chatfield Senior High? Do you see this school as helping you to connect you to your world and your future? Do you have clarity on what you're going to do after high school? Are you excited to be at school every day? Do you feel like you belong at school? Are you proud to be a Chatfield Charger? Those are all questions that we ask our students three times a year and we ask them to be as responsive, as honest as they can possibly be on that survey. And sometimes you'll be shocked by what they have to say. You'll find things like, Well, yes, we're spending all this time talking about how what you're learning right now is going to matter towards your future. But still, only 50% of your students are seeing that connection. And so we're missing the other half and things like that may pop up for you. And having that data can spark the why for your staff and really make that connection for them. The other thing that I would suggest in that area is doing empathy interviews with a select group of students. Ask those survey questions, those student perception questions, but then ask them why they responded that way. Our staff, what they did was we recorded via we used an AI tool to record and transcript exactly what the students had said. Then we plug that into another AI tool and we said, Give us the ten things that our students are recommending that we do to make their high school experience better. And we took that directly back to our staff, along with videos of our students telling us how to make the high school experience better. And you'll be amazed at how that will spark the fire of people actually wanting to make a change or actually take a critical eye to what they're doing. And so those are some of the major steps that we've taken. The final step, I would say, is tap into this balance of allowing your teachers to dream. Giving them space and time on a professional learning day or a PD day just to dream. And laying out with your leadership team what would be the next step for teachers that may not feel comfortable dreaming towards getting to the type of Tier one instruction, the type of instruction we want to see in every class and spell that out very, very clearly for your teachers. And so those are the three next steps that I would take. And we've done that at my school and it's unlocked a lot of conversation. It's pushed our teachers. It's left us feeling challenged. But that's ultimately what our students need us to feel is pushed and challenged so that we can be responsive to what they need. You're breaking that cognitive sweat, just like we're asking our students, it sounds like. Yeah. Thank you for that. And education leaders, I hope you were taking note. And I do really appreciate you exploring tools like A.I. as an educational leader, because I think our young people are asking us, why can't we use these tools in our classroom? So I love that you are leading by example and modeling the way around how to use innovative tools to create different pathways, not just educational pathways, but sometimes for our own selves, neuro neural pathways that need to be reshaped and reformed. So that wraps up our conversation. I do want to leave you with the ability to just kind of give us your final thoughts. Yeah. So if you're thinking as an educational leader, why, what should be my Northstar or what is the goal that I want to keep in mind for myself as a leader about what I want to accomplish? I think about every day and it's the goal that I walk in with every day, that what I want is for every single student at our high school to have some sort of connection to their future, some sort of experience that has had them feel connected to their future. And I always refer to it as the day after graduation. I want them to feel connected to what it is they're going to do the day after graduation. And what I want for students is when they're walking across the stage at graduation is to feel pure joy and not the anxiety of what is next for them. And so that is the driving force for me. It's why I show up every single day is thinking about on that final day that they're with us, that penultimate day after they've been with us for years and years and years. Are they going to be in a place where they can truly enjoy their accomplishments, feel that joy, feel connected to their next step, and how can we avoid them being in that space in which they may be feeling anxiety that is very, very real. If we don't do the work we need to do to connect them to what we owe our young people, as giving them that sense of self-confidence as they walk across the stage. And not only are they fulfilling the requirements of Jeffco public schools in order to graduate, but they're really prepared to launch into their lives, which is what honestly we owe them. I just want to thank you for your innovation, your leadership and what you bring to work every day, the risks that you take and the life that you are giving of yourself to make. The world a better place, not just for your students, for your staff, but really for our community. And so for that. Thank you. Thanks, Jason. I am very lucky. I love what I do, no doubt. Awesome. Well, thanks again. Thanks for listening. Elevate Education is a production of Jeffco Public Schools, Colorado. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe. Write us and share with others who might be interested. Do you have questions about this episode or suggestions for a future podcast topic? Share with us by visiting the sharing form in the podcast description. This episode was made possible by Jeffco Public Schools, our producer Mikayla Herrman, our host team Matt Valero, Tara Kenya and Jason Firestone, our editors. We added podcast.
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