Project Based Learning Meets AI Innovation: A conversation with Skills21

In this episode of the Elevate Education Podcast, Jason Firestone sits down with Matt Mervis, Director of AI Strategy, and Dr. Elizabeth Rowley, Director of Research and Innovation at Skills 21, to discuss how AI is reshaping K-12 education. From enhancing personalized learning experiences to fostering critical thinking through project-based learning, they explore the transformative power of combining AI tools with student-driven projects.

Learn how AI is supporting students in overcoming learning roadblocks, fueling creativity, and offering real-world applications that make learning more relevant. This conversation dives into the potential of AI to complement and amplify the hands-on, inquiry-based education that prepares students for the future. Tune in for insights on how schools can integrate AI into classrooms, along with practical tips on prompting and using AI ethically to support students’ growth and creativity.

Resources from this episode:

• Skills 21 Website – For more information about their work in project-based learning and AI integration in schools: Skills 21

• Skills 21's AI Prompt Library – A collection of resources for educators to utilize AI in classrooms, including sample prompts for creating rubrics, lesson plans, and more: Skills 21 AI Prompts

• ChatEdu Podcast – A podcast by the Skills 21 team where they explore AI and its applications in education: ChatEdu Podcast

• AI Vision and Voice Tools – Exploration of tools like AI Vision (e.g., Google Gemini and Microsoft Copilot) and AI Voice for interactive learning:

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:07):
Welcome back to all our listeners. The transformative impact of A.I. on K-12 education is a dense subject. That is why today I am sitting down with the Skills 21 team Matt Mervis, director of A.I. Strategy at and Dr. Elizabeth Rowley, Director of Research and Innovation. From Enhancing Personalized Learning to Preparing Students for an AI driven future. We will discuss how skills empower students to succeed through innovation, project based learning and critical thinking. Martin Lewis I'm eager to have this conversation and just wanted to thank you both for joining me today. Thanks, Jason. We appreciate it. Listen, I love being together, Sometimes we're like an old married couple, so you never know exactly what's going to happen. But yeah, we're thrilled and we're really excited about the great work you guys are doing with your podcast. It's it's so cool to see you coming out of your community and your district. It's just exceptional. Yeah. It's going to be great. We're excited. And I was sharing a little bit earlier with Matt and Liz that I've been able to listen to their podcast as well. And you all are doing amazing work. And again, I can tell you that the experience of listening to your podcast, that you all do sound a little bit like an old married couple, which I think will make this, this episode really good today. So could you both share a little bit about your interest in this work and an umbrella overview of what you all are doing at Skills 21? Matt maybe if you could kick us off with Skills 21 Mission and how it equips students with Skills for this dynamic world that we're living in today. Yeah, absolutely, Jason. Those skills 21 is a team inside Ed Advance, which is one of the six regional nonprofit education service centers. You have these things all over the country sometimes are called essays or are used, but we support a whole bunch of districts in Connecticut and then we work with schools around the state as well. So our program is 20 years old. We've been doing a variety of different project based learning programs that are really rooted in student's own personal interest, whether it's a team project or a student film or a capstone project or a personal interest project. And it's been a blast. I mean, I was a high school history teacher and I've been a tech director the last ten years. I've been the director for ten of those 20 years have been just some of the most interesting years of my kind of slightly long tenure. You can't see this over audio, but growing quickly here. It's just so fun to see the work that happens when students can take the reins around something they care deeply about and also just get to these incredible levels of rigor and relevance in their work, whether they're designing a compost bin for their school or making their own film. So it's just it's been a ton of fun watching students in that regard. So that's the quick bit of our DNA and actually it's cool is I'll just plug for her right out of the gate. Liz was just finishing up her first draft of a book on personal interest projects for A-Z and some of the work that we've been doing. So I don't know, Doc, do you want to talk a little bit about a more granular level of this project based learning stuff that we do at schools? Yeah. So when I started at Skills 21, about eight years ago with Matt, I was really taking on some work in grants. And so what students were doing was tackling a project that usually has a whole class of real world problems that they needed to solve. These real world problems were everything from growing plants in outer space, in zero gravity to. The salt melt that was would not be harmful to animals and tires that would indicate that they are balding so that so that drivers would know to replace their tires. So the kids would find these real world problems and then come up with a project that took them about a full a full school year to come up with prototypes, working prototypes. By the time they got to our huge expo fast whole marketing campaign, a business plan, they had to do all those comparisons to what's already on the market, what's the differentiator, what would be the price point, how much profit would they make? So these products were huge and so deep and the learning the kids did was incredible to take something that they were learning in science and get to go so deep into it. And we started their kids doing group projects and then as students went through and did these projects for a few years, then they ended by doing a capstone project where they took on something of their own personal interest. And we're doing the same kind of thing, you know, coming up with a project, developing a prototype, thinking about a business plan. And we had kids designing food trucks and a vest that would, you know, alert an emergency service system if they were injured or you know, making promo videos for their high school band, anything and everything. And that work really caught my interest, this capstone work, where kids were doing something so connected to their passions and so deep in the learning There was so much learning going on and that has become a big part of the work where they are just diving into these projects. It's so interesting and I think what you're describing plays into a couple of of guests we've had on our podcast. We had an opportunity to really talk about college and and how college is changing and higher education is changing to meet the dynamic needs of careers. And so it's really encouraging because you said was students following their passion area and really driving their own education of their own learning, which is always so exciting. And what you explained around the ice melt that animals I can I can attest to that I pay a lot more for that so that I can rest assured that my dogs, you know, are safe. So I think things like that are just not just fun, but but as you said, really generating real world learning. So I just am so excited to hear a little bit more about project based learning and also about A.I., that's always on the top of everyone's just everyone's thinking nowadays as we really think about AI and the good uses of it and the misuses of it. So if we could maybe just jump in on that subject and just talk about A.I. and K-12 education and maybe how those tools, as you kind of described you going across multiple school districts, across states, how those A.I. tools are really reshaping the classroom experience and offering students a more personal, personalized experience. Yeah, you bet. It's interesting, the the project based learning connection for us is really where I got grounded maybe like two years before the launch of Chelsea Beauty, which we're now coming up on. Actually, I think what this is, that will be past a two year anniversary. We have all these from these pet projects. We have all this cool data of kids in videos talking about their projects, especially during the pandemic. Lots of their reflections, their evidence of work, their demonstrations, of their prototypes are happening in video. And we were really curious about how machine learning could take all the video transcripts and like make meaning of the depth of their problem solving or collaboration or critical thinking. We didn't get too far with that. We're like, Oh, I think it's really cool. It could be it could take a ton of data and give us insights into assessment. And then when it came out, like everybody else, it just, you know, caught our attention. And for us, it was especially relevant because the first big, totally legitimate freakout is A.I. is going to write the kids essays for them. It's going to do their work for them. It's going to bypass the learning process, which is really the thing that we're all kind of struggling with the challenge and opportunity of this tech in a project based learning context. I just take anything Liz described. You know, here's a kid who's designing a system for salt based ice melt. Chatbot won't do that for a kid. It's not like writing an essay. And so we became excited about AI's complement to project based learning. How could I be a coach or a collaborator or a colleague to a student as they're doing a project, not just jump over their work? So that was the entry point for us and we started talking about it and you know, doing webinars and some trainings, we started embedding some A.I. tools into our own project based learning platform for kids with. Interact with an AI chat bot not to do the work for them. So if they were thinking about four different project ideas, they might brainstorm the pros and cons of those projects and then turn to the chat bot and say, Here's my first list of pros and cons for these projects I want to look at. Know, help me expand the field of view. Help me understand better, you know, kind of the viability of a project idea. So that was our entry point project based learning and I really kind of came together for us in one. Really interesting and useful integrated fashion. From there, we to some degree became thought leaders in our little corner of the world. And that has you know, we're really gratified that that's grown. It's turned into a podcast and a training. So to your question, Jason, I think there's a lot of different impacts in the classroom, both positive and challenging. Right. But as far as the student engagement and and kids using I we've run I don't know there's maybe 20 pilots over the last couple of years where students are using a data privacy compliant air tool that's helping them either do this project based learning work. We also have a tool where students are learning to do different types of prompts, like how to use AI responsibly to summarize a complex topic, or give the AI a role like, Hey, become my great organic chemistry tutor or co-write. You know, you're a developing writer or you're writing code. As I go back and forth of years, we've developed these like eight or nine different prompting strategies, and we're just one tool. We're seeing schools do really cool things with school, I imagine school and conmigo. And what's sort of neat is that there are very discernible learning types that are evolving or emerging rather from these tools. And school AI feels a lot like a wildly popular tool called Character AI, which is a consumer tool where kids are really like digging in with the AI as it takes on the persona of a literary character or a historical figure. Or so I'm going back and forth and I'm learning about electricity directly from from Tesla. Right? So or conmigo is, is very great. Although the kids sometimes get frustrated because it acts just like a teacher. It's a great tutoring tool that's A.I. based. So, you know, there's the whole challenge side of this. How do we deal with kids not using AI just to do their work for them? But they're certainly on the flip side of that great examples of kids using AI and all sorts of really interesting ways, both in our project based learning world, but more generally applicable mostly for students 13 and up, because the data privacy laws in the country and even more aggressively around the globe and in the EU. But it's it's a sort of early snapshot of what we're doing and also what we're seeing. That's awesome. And I really appreciate the ways that you're describing critical thinking and generating critical thinking into ways really new pathways almost for students. Right, when you think about how the brain works. So you described a couple of the incredible projects that you've seen through your project based learning work. Are there like really great success stories there where students really were able to shine and really maybe change the thinking of some of the educators who may be a little bit more hesitant around the space with project project based learning and I. My gosh, so many great examples. I think not only did we have to change teachers ideas about using AI in projects, some of the students were very cautious. And so when their teachers said, We're going to use AI to help you with their projects, they were very much like we were using AI in school because the first message that most kids received was like, This tool is a cheating tool. Don't touch it, don't go near it. It's, you know, you're violating academic integrity. And so for teachers to be like, actually, we're going to teach you how to use it in a fun way or to, you know, not just fun, but ethical and safe and productive way. The students at first were like, I don't know. And some of them thought it was, you know, I think we heard the word creepy over and over again because they were like, you tell it something and it responds and it sounds human, like. So the kids thought it was creepy. And then, you know, I think the teachers that got on board and were open to using it with within personal interest projects, capstone projects, they really started showing their colleagues like, look at what this is doing for this kids project. And, you know, a personal interest project has a lot of different pieces and they're challenging. They take place over multiple weeks, and you've got to stay motivated throughout the whole process. And there's multiple final pieces. And we want them reflecting and thinking, you know, trying those projects the first couple of times can be a real challenge. And one of the things that happens in the classroom is like kids hit a wall or a, you know, a roadblock and they don't know what to do. They and so then they just sit there at their desks or at their tables, like waiting for the solution, waiting for the teacher to notice that they're doing nothing, waiting for the teacher to have time to talk to them. And with the ability to use AI to overcome these roadblocks, like the amount of success students are feeling now in personal interest projects, has really skyrocketed because they're not just stuck and sitting there. So we're seeing kids use it in a lot of different ways. And the first way is in just coming up with project ideas, because if you ask most teenagers, What are you interested in? I don't know. I don't know. What do you want to do a project on? I don't know. They have no they you know, and they just sit there and be able by being able to use a chat bot to just start with, I'm a 17 year old teenager. I have to do a six week project I like and then list three or four things that you like. It doesn't have to be even a project, right? I like dogs, I like music, I like dancing, I like hanging out with my friends like that. None of those are projects, but then a chat bot can can start suggesting project ideas give in like it knows that it's a six week project. These are some things that kids like, and that in itself has been game changing because kids can then just get ideas for projects and sometimes they're like, Yes, that's the project I want to do. And sometimes they're like, Hmm, that's not exactly what I want to do, but that gives me a great idea. I want to do something connected to this. And so it's been really helpful in overcoming the roadblocks. And we do get a lot of questions about is this taking away student's creativity? And I don't think so. I think it's actually enhancing their creativity because it gives them these sparks and then they can take from there and go off and be as creative as they want. I'm curious, can you talk a little bit about the prompts in which you're driving and some some maybe some tips from our listeners around? Good prompts. Yeah, you bet. So one reason that's all I'll point to and we just used it a lot as a place to do training and and examples was an I run a really fun micro credential right now and our props page, which is said and I'm sure there's some show notes we can drop this in but it's skills 21 dawg forward slash props so on that on that page not the prettiest page in the world, but there's a lot of content. And so we've been organizing prompts and we add to them all the time for teachers, for curriculum folks, for superintendents. But also interestingly, write for h.R. For business, for finance. I mean, in my internal work at advance as the head of strategy, i spend more time working with h.r. Finance transfer. Haitian food service because it's is going to have really profound impacts on all aspects of teaching and learning, but also these big enterprises that we call schools and schooling and school based organizations. So our prompt library, you know, if you go in there for a teacher, as a teacher, for example, there are prompts that are structured to help teachers think about developing a rubric or a high leverage strategy or a lesson plan or a delicate email home to a parent on a sensitive topic And the prompts are designed not to be like, this is where you go every time you need to do something, but rather as a formula. And the formula basically right now includes a role so that I will say something or the prompt will instruct something that looks like you're a world class assessment designer and you're great at writing rubrics, and then it will have a task, you know, please help me develop a rubric for seventh grade conversational Spanish, and then it will provide some more guidance on context, as is being used in my Multi-lingual Learner program and please and then some formatting. So please put it in a table. And you know, there's all sorts of like really cute acronyms out there. I remember none of them, of course, for the formula for prompting. But basically right now it's something like role context, details and format. But honestly, the thing that's most important and teachers, we've had a lot of fun. Teachers are like, Oh, that's cool. You will notice, you know, curiously that if you use that kind of a structure, you're going to get a better output than if you just say, Hey, write me a rubric for something great, conversational, Spanish, right? Giving it all the formatting and the context and the structure and the role gets a better output thing. That's most critical that we just intuitively don't think to do is to say, Great, when you get that first rubric, what don't you like? What's missing? We always ask teachers, Listen, I've done this thousands of times with teachers. Give your first output a grade from that prompt. Right. It's a B-plus. It did this really well, but it's missing X, Y or Z. And we're very often just go, well, it goes in the land of Google. That was it. It's all on us. And so getting folks to understand that they called it Chat GPT for a reason to have a conversation with it. So if you say to the A.I. with kindness, just in case they take over, right? Hey, we're missing this aspect. I actually only have two days for this lesson that you designed, and you've made it like a four week unit. Okay, I'm more than happy. I'm not trying to anthropomorphize. It's hard not to do, but the chat bot will gladly go back and forth and make that thing better. So that's that's a big a big one for us is the structure for the prompt, but also the willingness to go back and forth. The thing that we've gotten a little bit more thoughtful about are different kinds of prompts. Right now our library is organized around these three buckets prompted generate stuff, right. And so that would be like a lesson plan from it. Analyze things. So here's a bunch of unstructured data. I've got anonymized behavior logs from my school district and our class culture is kind of gone off the rails at our middle school, you know. And the chat bot prompt is says, says, here's all this anonymized data of our behavior logs, help me make meaning of it. So an analytical prompt and then we'll do these kind of what we call interactive prompts. So I'm a superintendent and I'm getting ready for an interview with the media about our new cell phone policy. Go back and forth and coach me through the process. And what I heard recently, I think the guy's name is Andrew McAfee. I heard him on a wonderful podcast called Pivot Talk about an old married couple, although this is a Scott Galloway and Kara Swisher who are not married for all sorts of reasons. Nonetheless, they did a recent interview with this guy from MIT and he said, You can think of I as a clerk, a colleague or a coach, and I'm almost tempted to reorganize our whole prompt library in that way because the clerk is like, Make me a rubric or help me write this letter. The colleague is giving me feedback on something I'm doing. Here's my lesson plan How do I integrate vertical whiteboards for thinking classrooms? And, you know, it's like it's a collegial feedback or a coach. Here's something I'm really not good at and I need to get better at. And in a prompt where it's well-structured can be this like, remarkable coach. So I don't know. Wait, you may go back in two weeks and we'll have reorganized the prompt library, but that was a longish answer to your very good question about prompting. Now that is extraordinarily helpful. Think about what we're truly trying to get to. I was speaking with someone from our translation and interpretation team around the use of A.I. and they shared with me that while they're not using it to translate because that's their skill set, what they are using, their team is using it for, for instance, is I'm going into a special education meeting. This is the disability. What questions should I might be thinking about arguing to be asked so that I can prepare in my brain how to translate those. So I think those are ways, again, where we're not losing a skill set, we're simply sharpening it and using this tool to help our own brains think through maybe possibilities that we hadn't done that yet. And so in that vein, I know that you had said that when we were talking earlier that you were in charge of looking at data around the home visitation process that you all are using in your state around student engagement. And so obviously that could be a whole nother episode and topic I would love to talk about through the dropout prevention lens, but I really I'm curious how you're seeing project based learning and AI generate really thinking about student engagement and how that you've seen maybe that change over time? when I look at all the LEAP data, so the reasons why students are not coming to school, why they are chronically absent in the older grades, school engagement is one of the most prevalent reasons. And when you dig a little deeper, kids are just saying like, school doesn't feel relevant to me. I'm not that interested in going when I can go out and make money, you know, versus sit in classes where I'm doing worksheets and reading things that aren't that exciting to me. Personal interest projects, project based learning. These are things that can really engage students. I know that some of our schools may not be doing project based learning. What are three tips or or three ways that a student, a school who's not doing this could start? Well, my first piece of advice is to start small, right? Like, you don't have to go build a whole playground. Like start with a two or three day project in your classroom that is more directed because one of the big things teachers have to do when they do personal interest projects or capstone projects are these huge project based learning projects is give up a lot of authority and a lot of control in the classroom, and that's scary as a teacher. So start small, do a two or three day project where there's a defined and a defined outcome, which is more kind of typical of just regular, regular, quote unquote project based learning, where there's a challenge the kids have to address the challenge. There is no one right answer, but at the end, they're addressing the main question, the essential question. The second piece of advice is get input from the kids. So when you are going to do that kind of project, ask the kids what they're interested in doing for that project. You know, they have great ideas. They just come up with such cool things When we ask them, when we actually say like, Hey, what are you interested in? my third piece of advice is collaborate with other teachers, ask them how they've, you know, find somebody that is doing project based learning and ask where they started or ask them to come and help or give you some ideas. I know that administrators would love to be in classrooms where that is happening. Like people will do that for you, whether it's a colleague that has a free period or an app or a, you know, a person that can help, you know, ask them for that. Yeah. Like the idea around how we're using colleagues to help us build some of these ideas and structures. I'm wondering, what are some of the biggest ways Skills 21 is supporting school districts in either project based learning or integration or both. Yeah. I mean, I'll start with where Liz just left off, and I love those three kind of suggestions and entry points. We're finding that I can be a partner and a thought partner, but go back to that whole colleague and coach idea. Right? So sometimes starting with what teachers are teaching and using I as a problem solver, a thought partner on a project. Right. So, hey, I'm a seventh grade teacher. I'm doing a one week unit or a two week unit on cell mitosis. I want to bring in project based learning this year. You help me think of a way that I can integrate project based learning. So I'm teaching seventh grade, so my choices I have a week. Here's a list of 15 things that my kids are interested in. I want to do project based learning. Let me design a two week project that will help me get to the content and mastery that's needed around cell mitosis and weave in my students interests. And what's wild is that it's a very effective coach in doing that or a colleague to support that problem solving. Another interesting piece I think we're seeing and I'll circle back around to the the larger kind of skills 21 tact but there is a. There is this fascinating phenomena around the anxiety and tension that many, especially humanities like high school humanities teachers, are feeling about eyes, presence in and its impact on their curriculum. So I was just working with another teacher that is a World Languages teacher, and she has done for years this really cool project where kids, you know, it's a hands on research task. It's really a writing and research task, right? Kids have researched cultural celebrations around Central and South America, and she became convinced that two years ago now the kids basically got their cultural celebration that was assigned to them or they picked they used A.I. to do the research and they used A.I. to do the writing, and they handed it all out. She's like, Wow, this cool thing that I've done for a while, students are basically just use A.I. They kind of bypassed the depth of everything that I had hoped would happen. I would hope they would get these knowledge and skills and practices and insights. And so she actually wound up doing this not with a chat bot. She just turned to her colleagues and her department said, I think this thing is toast. Like, I'm I'm really not imagining that kids are going to bring their whole agency and intellect and passion or interest to this project. So they did some brainstorming. And so rather than a research and right task, they came up with the idea that the kids could just put on the cultural celebrations. So they all took a different topic and they had to do the research and the outlining. But they actually then brought in the food and they brought in the music and they brought in the dancing and they hosted the celebrations in class. And so here, the presence of A.I. as a negative influence that could help students bypass learning became a hands on project. And I asked her two questions at the end of this kind of revelation she had shared. One was, what was the depth of learning? And she said it was off the charts. Like the kids just really got into the projects. They learned a ton. It was much higher than previous years of research and right. And certainly that previous year what it was like was convinced it was mostly air based. And I did ask her how much time it took, and she said it took more time. And I think we have to be candid about that. So this whole bucket of stuff I just described is a thing that we call durable assessments and durable activities in the face of A.I.. There's a prompt up on the skills 21 page called a durable assignment audit where you put in the assignment that you're doing and you asked. And the the chat bot is basically instructed to give feedback on how to make sure that kids can't use a chat bot to do that. Right. So it's not meant to be a glass half empty. Ooh, here's a I how do I, you know, basically create a moat around it with my curriculum. But nonetheless, I'm convinced when we look back five years from now, we're going to say, hey, I really wound up for it, wound up forcing us to shift some of our assessments and have kids show what they know. And in lots of different ways, that's more sometimes hands on student to student more broadly on our end. I mean, everything under the Sun Skills 21 is helping schools around the presence of AI and just what I describe. So we've got a really nice professional development task and suite that we do where teachers learn how to do more durable assessments. We support A.I. planning teams to help school districts come up with a guidelines for students, which I think is a critical step. Right. It's really, frankly, unfair to students and parents at this point not to have some clear expectations around what kids and kids kids can and can't do with A.I. So we do a lot of planning team support. We also work with boards of education and policy work. We do this micro credential that I've mentioned once before that's also listed up on the Skills 21 page. That is a six week online course list, and I just launched it for the first time this fall. Where there's, you know, kind of five modules. They go through, teachers go through school leaders go through around foundations, working on prompting, working on these shifting assessments, learning how to use A.I. in a more multi-media fashion, which is a true passion of mine, as well as then how do you kind of pick a future focus and how do you become a leader in a space where the landscape is changing? And then we do this whole podcast every now and then on chat. Edu That's our, that's our weekly kind of hang time to get together and talk about what's going on. And that's been a lot of fun as well. So lots of different interventions, lots of different supports, lots of different ways that we try to share resources and help schools build their own path around this work. You know, we've we've had multiple chapters in this world that we are in together around technology, personalizing learning for students. Sometimes that's a little bit of code for let's get the teachers out of the mix. So I want to find this like interesting balance between how can I be this great? It can be this great personalized tutor, but how does it also complement the kinds of engaged learning we've been talking about with project based learning? I mean, it's interesting that students get a lot. We get a lot of data off of some of the more personalized A.I. chat bots. I don't know that the students are finding the most engagement around it, and I also don't know if those A.I. tools are always driving us to do things in our parts of the graduate around problem solving, critical thinking, you know, peer to peer, human to human empathy, collaboration. So I'd love to see this kind of great blend of the A.I. tutor helps you get smart at something, but then teachers can use that application of knowledge and skills in a cool, hands on way where empathy, humanity, creativity, collaboration are right in the heart of the classroom. It's a tough challenge, but I think we're worth exploring. Absolutely. And there is no replacement to a highly engaging and skilled educator in front of a classroom of young people. So thank you for elevating that. This has been awesome. I could literally talk to both of you for hours. Your team has been going above and beyond and I and how it's really transforming and really making us rethink how we do this thing called education. So thank you both so much. One last nugget of knowledge would be amazing. So Liz's passion around project based learning is awesome and it's been so fun to collaborate together at one level. One tip, I think, is to have a Liz right, you know, or to have Liz have a mat. Like, we've had such a good time learning with each other and being thought partners. So I think finding, you know, a small place in your community is great. Now, my, my big thing of late, it's really been more than just of late is to imagine where the technology goes next. I'm fascinated by things like AI vision, where you can download the churchy beauty or clod app and take a photo of something. I just stumbled on some like random thing on a beach I was lucky enough to be on, had no idea what it was. It wound up being this thing called a sea being that it probably floated down the Amazon River thousands of miles. And all it took was me taking a photo, you know, capturing it on chat ships and asking, Hey, what is this? And it turned into this fascinating days long learning journey for me. So, you know, unlocking things like air vision and the other is voice. And I would suggest you could do these on Microsoft's copilot app or the chat app or the Gemini app from Google. And you click the little voice button and you just start having a conversation. So as an adult, right, I would explore things like voice and vision. They sound scary and weird, but they're super accessible again on any of these mobile apps. So trying having a conversation in real time about a topic you're interested in, you'll just be blown away by. What will it begin to look like when this conversation's not captured inside a little text box where we're just typing back and forth, hunched over our computer, like lean back, have a conversation with a chat bot on a topic that you're interested in, because I think it will stretch our imagination about where we'll be in two or three years when it comes to these tools as a power tools and learning. Always looking for new ways to be a lifelong learner. So thank you for those tips. Thank you both for being here. I mean, I've learned so much from both of you. Audience Remember to visit Skills 21 dot org and head over to Matt and Liz's podcast. Again, it is excellent chat Edu to dig deeper into all things education and as a reminder, this episode of the part of series for educators, school leaders and anyone interested in the future of I Am Education. And if you enjoy today's conversation, make sure you go back and listen to our episode with our host, Matt Calero and Victor Lee from Stanford University.