August 28, 2024 • 29 mins
In this episode of the Elevate Education Podcast, host Jason Firestone welcomes Kelly McLean, the president and founder of the Kelly McLean Achievement Center (KMAC). Based in Ohio, KMAC specializes in guiding students through the complex world of college admissions, from finding the perfect college fit to mastering ACT/SAT prep and securing scholarships.
Tune in as Kelly shares insider tips on navigating the college application process and how early planning and involvement can set students up for long-term success. Whether you’re a student, parent, or educator, you won’t want to miss Kelly’s expert advice on what colleges really look for and how to stand out in a sea of applicants. Don’t miss this chance to elevate the college prep game for yourself or your student!
Stay Connected: Enjoyed today’s episode? Subscribe, rate, and share with others. Have questions or topic suggestions? Let us know through the sharing form.
KMAC Resources:
Please join our private College Made Easy Facebook group where we share relevant information each week.
You can schedule a call for a complimentary consultation to discuss your son or daughter's college journey using this link: https://calendly.com/kelly-mac/college-made-easy
Check out the KMAC website for more information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome back to Elevate Education Podcast.
I'm your host, Jason Firestone, and I'm thrilled to welcome Kelly McLean, the presidentand founder of the Kelly McLean Achievement Center, or KMAC, based in Ohio.
At KMAC, Kelly and her team focus on providing tailored information and resources to helpeach student find their best college fit.
Her comprehensive approach includes everything from major selection and career planning toACT, SAT prep, and fast foot prep, ACT and SAT prep.
(00:31):
and FASFA ACT and SAT prep and FASFA preparation and even continues through a student'sfreshman year in college.
Stay tuned as we learn about the college application process and how the decisionsstudents make today can make a huge difference in their tomorrow.
If you're navigating the complex world of college admissions, you won't want to missKelly's insights on finding the perfect college fit, securing scholarships, and setting
(01:00):
yourself up for long -term success.
So without further ado, let's dive into our conversation with Kelly McLean.
Welcome, Kelly.
Thank you so much for having me and thank you for the warm introduction.
Absolutely, and we are so excited to have you.
So when I think back, I mean...
way, way, way back to when I was a high school schooler thinking about college.
(01:28):
I had no idea what I was doing and what I needed to do.
And now, admittedly, I have two children of my own and I'm a little bit embarrassed to saythat even now with two kids, I am admittedly less informed than I should be.
So Kelly, if you wouldn't mind helping me out, let's start this conversation by groundingin the college application process and when families should be thinking about and
(01:56):
preparing themselves for the college application.
Certainly.
So the Common App just opened on August 1st.
So most people consider this application season.
But I like to think that the application process is really best prepared for long beforethat.
(02:18):
Crafting a list of schools that are going to provide the most opportunities.
Having an idea, you know, how are we picking those schools because we have an idea of whatwe'd like to study.
we have an idea of what schools might be generous with financial support.
so finding that great mix so that once the application season does open, you can go aheadand start filling that out, completing those pieces.
(02:46):
I also like to have students complete a resume prior to August 1st.
On the Common App, there's a section where they ask for 10 activities.
We tell students, better have 10 activities.
So if that means you've got to do a canned food drive in your neighborhood this week andtake it down to the food pantry, that's a great idea.
(03:07):
If you need to babysit for some neighbors so you can put babysitting on your list, thenyou need to do that.
But they want to see that you're going to be involved in the college community.
And so what's the best indicator that you'll be involved in the college community?
How much you were involved in your school community and your neighborhood community inserving others.
(03:29):
That's great advice.
Is there a grade or an age that a student should be thinking about those activities asthey think about what they're putting on a college application?
It really should start freshman year.
I think students should stop worrying about what they're good at and focusing on, well,I'll be good at this sport, so I'll do the sport, but nothing else.
(03:49):
I'll be good at theater, so I'll do that, but nothing else.
I think getting involved in clubs and trying them and sticking with the ones that resonatewith you then throughout high school, because colleges do like to see length, but just...
Trying new things is a great opportunity.
(04:10):
Not only does it allow them to have activities for their resume and show that they didparticipate, but it could spark an interest in them where that could lead to a future
career.
That could lead to, you know, a very meaningful hobby, something along those lines.
So I think it's really important for students to start getting involved.
(04:31):
Like the mindset freshman year should be, I'm here to try things.
I'm here to find out what's available to me.
That's incredible advice because I think maybe in some of our students and our families oreven some of our educators minds they're really thinking, know, their junior or their
senior year they need to be thinking about college, but you're saying no much, muchearlier on.
(04:52):
So that's amazing advice and hopefully our listeners are hearing that and as our familiesare thinking about that, our educators are thinking about that and our students are
thinking about that, we begin to think about that earlier on.
So thank you.
Now know that there's been some changes since I applied to college back in the Stone Ages.
What standardized tests are required for college and university applications?
(05:17):
That is a great question.
So during COVID, colleges, every college made the decision to go test optional, wherestandardized tests were no longer required.
The state of California for 28 straight months did not have a single test offered.
Well, there was no college in the United States that was going to say, well then we won'ttake any California kids.
(05:42):
They wanted their money too.
So they went test optional.
However, what we're seeing now though is more schools are going back to requiring tests.
And again, you know, I'm, I'm very big on, I want students to have as many options aspossible open to them.
So the sooner they start thinking about what do they want in a college?
(06:07):
What do they like?
What do they want to pursue?
What hobbies, what extracurriculars?
and start looking at colleges that offer those items, they can see, know, like, wow, theydo require a test.
I better take the test early, get a decent score, take the test early, do miserably andrealize what I need to work on so that I can still open that opportunity for myself.
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Students shouldn't find out late in the game, I'm going to apply to Purdue, University ofTennessee.
wait, they need a test score?
I can't go there.
That's, you know, a really poor reason to not be able to follow your dream because youdidn't know about that requirement early enough.
Absolutely, and I appreciate because what I'm hearing you say is you can always retake atest one of those standardized tests over again If you don't do well the first time
(07:05):
Absolutely, you can take it as many times as you'd like and the overwhelming majority ofthe schools with the exception of some IVs and Just a couple others.
They only want your best score.
So if you take it six times That's okay.
Now.
I realize most kids don't want to do that But if it changes how much you'll pay forschool, you might be interested in really working to get that score up
(07:30):
So as we think about key deadlines for each part of the college application process, arethere things that families should be and students should be thinking about that?
And when we talk about applications, financial aid, and scholarships?
Yes, definitely.
So we're going to tackle scholarships as a side because it's its own beast.
(07:53):
But here's what I can tell you.
Every school has deadlines for their applications.
There's early action.
Early action, you can apply to as many schools as you'd like.
Most schools early actions are somewhere between October 15th and December 1st.
Most students think if they apply two days before that early action deadline that they're
(08:15):
early and they are not.
We like students to be at minimum, minimum a month before the deadline.
The sooner the better.
Having worked in college admissions, I can tell you most admissions departments whenapplications open up, they're like, we've got to fill this class.
This is our income.
(08:35):
These are our customers.
We need to see what kind of income we're going to be able to generate for next year.
So let's get this class filled.
But
As the class starts getting filled, it's no longer about let's take whoever's best.
It becomes, what do we still need as the school?
The band director needs a tuba player.
(08:57):
We still need to fill the history department.
We've got the anthropology department is on thin ice.
Like we've got to get kids into that program.
We still need more diversity in our program.
And that's not just talking about race.
It could be diversity in some other form of background, something unique, some differentaspect.
(09:20):
More learning happens when you bring new mindsets together, different backgrounds.
It also could be, and people don't think about this, but it could be the nursing programdoesn't have any men in it.
We need some male applicants.
So you could be a female applicant with great grades and test scores, but they've gotenough female applicants now.
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So.
They're looking for something else.
So the bottom line is college is a business and they're looking to create a community thatis likely to go on and do well.
So they're looking at grades and test scores.
Past performance is the biggest indicator of how they'll do in the future.
They're looking to fill all the different little pieces of their puzzle.
(10:05):
Nobody needs 27 mayors.
They need parts of the community throughout the whole thing.
So getting your application in early when the mindset is more like we've got to fill theclass, not we've got to plug holes, is going to be a big game changer for certain kids in
situations.
But if we're going to talk about scholarships, we are talking about scholarships for allyour freshmen right now.
(10:29):
Because your freshmen, their grades are the biggest indicator to how they will doscholarship -wise.
When a college can offer you a scholarship, they're giving you that amount of money timesfour years.
That is the biggest money you will ever get.
So your freshmen grades, sophomore grades, junior grades, guess what?
Senior grades don't count.
(10:49):
So you've got a crush at these three years thinking like, well, I'll make it up my senioryear.
I've still got junior and senior year.
You're late to the party.
you, the better you can...
encourage students that freshman year grades are pivotal to getting paid.
And if we make the conversation more about, a college will pay you to come instead of likescholarship money, which seems so like aloof, distant, way down the road.
(11:19):
No, college is going to pay you.
Wait, somebody's going to give me money?
Then that's a different story.
And now I'm more likely to put in the work.
I'm more likely to think about my grades in those terms of getting paid.
And I mean, there's great scholarship opportunities out there for students with goodgrades.
So what I hear you saying is that, one, probably good for our families and our students toput deadlines a month before on their calendars so that they don't wait till the last
(11:49):
minute.
And that you don't know what diversity you may represent.
So just always think of yourself as a diverse student who would be a value and an asset toa college or program, depending on which program or which college you're going to attend.
Yes.
So, and that's where the college application essay comes in.
(12:09):
So important as well as the resume is where you can show your unique aspect.
the overwhelming 50, 60 % of students participate in sports in high school do not writeabout the ACLU tour, about the hard work.
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about how you've been in your sport since you were five years old and it's everything toyou and it's taught you so many life lessons.
Nobody cares.
Colleges are sick of hearing it.
That's not helping you stand out at all.
They're looking for the realization you had, the unique perspective you bring tosomething, something different in your background, some story that really sets you apart.
(12:56):
And when we work with students, we have a special mind mapping process to help studentsthink differently about what they can write.
Because most students think about their high school world and it's, it's prettyhomogenous.
Like most kids are going to high school doing the same things.
So we're really looking to make them stand out.
(13:20):
Like what's that that separates them?
So as you think about that unique identity that would separate a student from anotherstudent, what advice or what should students include or not include in their personal
statements or essays to make it stand out?
So we love for students, like I said, to include some form of growth, realization, somedifference, and a great hook.
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Never start, and this is how I explain it to students, most people rarely pay to go see adocumentary.
The historical outline.
I started playing soccer when I was five.
I continued and I played travel.
I played club and now I play high school and now I'm the captain and I've learned so much.
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Nobody cares.
People pay for the story.
They pay for the emotional attachment.
So a great college essay has a story and that story gives hints of what that realizationis of what the student has learned without coming out and telling.
(14:33):
the story.
And if you don't mind, I'll share a first paragraph of a common app essay that we sharewith all of our students.
Okay, great.
Bear with me one second.
I'm going to pull this up.
Just one second.
And we share this because I think it's very difficult.
(14:54):
Students have been taught to write facts.
Tell us about the character in the story.
Tell us about this historical
information they have not been taught to really write creatively.
And I meet students, really good students who, I'm a good creative writer, and they stillneed to kind of, you know, transition.
(15:15):
So here, I'll read this fairly quickly.
This is a first paragraph.
It gives insight into what a student has learned or what revelation they've had.
And, but it has the reader thinking like, where are they going so that the reader wants tocontinue?
The small grimy McDonald's coffee cup bearing not coffee, but loose change captured myattention.
(15:38):
Holding the cup was a disheveled 30 something year old man sporting a pair of ripped, notin the stylish way, jeans, an oversized gray blue jacket with frays near the bottom and a
sizable tear near the right chest pocket.
He had on a once black, now faded gray New York Yankees hat that cast a shadow over hissullen eyes.
His unkept beard rusted against the loose tattered collar portion
(16:02):
of his faded white undershirt as he sat slouched against the cold concrete building.
Stopped staring, my mom's somewhat quiet but firm request snapped me from my transfixedstate and I looked away for a second in the direction we were walking.
It was my first time visiting New York City and amidst all of the skyscraper streetperformers, corner bodegas and street vendors, my focus was on this apparently unhoused
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man.
Shouldn't we give him a few dollars, I asked my dad.
My question was met with an odd mix of begrudging irritation and indignant contempt.
No, he would just use that money for drugs.
My attention shifted shamefully to my hand that was firmly grasping the handles of twoNordstrom bags, each one holding a designer shirt, pants and accessories, souvenir from
(16:48):
our time in the city.
As we walked farther down the street, I glanced back at the man, his forearm resting onhis knee, hands still hopelessly holding onto the styrofoam cup.
And perhaps for the first time in my life, I truly questioned my parents.
And then the essay goes on to talk about the student's original assumption about povertyand homelessness and his views versus his views now versus what he had been told growing
(17:15):
up.
And so it shows so much insight and growth.
Absolutely, and as you were reading that, I could plug in the said famous actor as they'rewalking down the street, so the description and everything that you had told our audience
is playing out exactly as you said.
And it really gets you curious about what's coming next.
(17:37):
Right, versus the, I've played soccer since I was five.
We know where it's going, we don't need to read it.
I have a student who has a very bad food allergies, very, very bad.
And she made comments about how people have dismissed her food allergies.
just go ahead and have it, I'm sure it's fine.
I'm sure they don't put peanuts in that, whatever.
We didn't start her essay talking about how she couldn't have birthday treats.
(18:02):
Instead, we talked about how her teacher
Said come you have to sit over here.
I need you sitting at the table next to me because everyone Would know how it would feelto be singled out in class and be told to go sit in the front of the room And so no one's
going to dismiss that as food allergies aren't that big a deal like why is she writingabout this now?
(18:25):
They just know she's been ostracized and they'll relate to her more
Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing the humanity in which you help students describethemselves and their experiences as a way for people to see them and stand out from the
thousands of other essays they may read that are coming in.
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So I think that a lot of students hear the phrase, how are you going to make money doingthat from their parents, from their peers, from maybe educators even?
How do you work with parents and students to share an open mindset about going to collegeand choosing majors?
So I think too often there's a limitation on majors where parents, well -meaning parents,do want their kids to be able to self -support, but they look at, what are you good at?
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You're good at math, do this.
You're good at science, do this.
You're good at English.
And that is so restrictive.
And most parents have no idea what the up and coming careers are because they don't studythat.
So we encourage students to look at it differently.
We want students to start thinking about how do you wanna spend your day?
Who do you wanna help?
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How do you wanna make an impact?
Where can you make a difference?
What's one thing you could do now to work towards that?
How can you make a change today?
Who can you help in your community?
What could you do that would be different?
And then start thinking about what would that look like as a career?
And there's just such.
(19:59):
great valuable resources online.
mean, obviously we help students do this, but for students who are doing this on theirown, you know, going to bls .gov backslash OOH, the Bureau of Labor Statistics keeps
valuable information and they can search hundreds of careers to discover there'll becareers that never heard of.
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they're like, wait, this is a job.
People do this.
And I think that's so valuable to get them to stop thinking engineer, doctor, lawyer,teacher, nurse, pediatrician, you know, those types of things.
But for the creative fields, I know parents are terrified and there's so many waysstudents can take their creative ability and put them into well paying careers, but they
(20:50):
have to investigate what those routes are and you know, really think through that.
process.
And when they're looking at colleges, they should be looking at what kind of co -ops,cooperative opportunities with employers would they get?
Because if they get co -ops, that means there's jobs available out there because employersaren't creating some fake job for a college kid.
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They're looking for like, who's the next person we could potentially hire.
And so when they're looking at the career path, you know, what colleges are going to givethem some of those opportunities, because that indicates there are really paying jobs in
that field.
I think that's such great advice as we think about the ever -changing job field andfinding things that you're really passionate about and that you don't want just a job, but
(21:37):
as you're going to college, you're really thinking about a career, your future, and thelong term.
So I really appreciate you and how you explain that.
So thank you, Kelly.
Sure.
So knowing that we're a school district and obviously comprised of teachers andcounselors, how can counselors and teachers support students in the college application
(21:58):
process?
So I think it's really important to do things early.
I find too often it's pushed back to mid September.
Let's get the school year underway.
And for students who haven't been, you know, working on things on their own up until thatpoint to start September 15th and want to apply to a college with an early action deadline
(22:27):
of
October 15th or November 1st, which is very common, they're kind of already behind theeight ball.
So doing things early, I think it's really important.
think every junior English teacher should be really focused on how to write a really goodcollege application essay, not a grammatically correct essay, an emotionally moving,
(22:53):
creative story essay.
So that I see kids all the time, I got an A last year.
My junior teacher had me write this and I'm like, there's no way we could use that.
it doesn't move anybody.
There's no feeling there.
So I think if teachers are, you know, better informed on what, on the kids that aregetting selected, how are they getting selected and that this is a big portion of it, then
(23:19):
they can better help the students and starting the process earlier with the common app andso forth.
in August and not waiting until September to really get kids moving on that.
So as teachers and counselors think about those resources, are there resources availablethat you could point to or advice that you would give around resources for folks in the
(23:42):
education field to help a student with their college application?
So we're happy to provide resources for schools and teachers and so forth.
There's an online, we have an online portal, a Facebook page, it's a private group.
It is free.
(24:02):
It's College Made Easy by Kelly McLean.
We post a lot of great resources in there for parents.
We invite questions from families and answer their questions.
You know, if they have individual specific questions, happy to do that.
Great, thank you.
And again, for our listening audience, Kelly McLean Achievement Center, or KMAC, is how wefind and how students and educators and families can find you, correct?
(24:34):
All right, excellent.
All right, I'm gonna take a timeout, Kelly, and I'm gonna just check, because we kindawent through the questions quickly.
I we were limited on time.
Is there a question specific that I didn't ask that you wanted me to highlight before weclose?
No, I think you did a great job of covering things.
Maybe, I don't know if it, do you feel it's relevant if we touch on college athletics,like kids who are looking to make that next step?
(25:03):
absolutely.
Yeah, okay, so that golden question there, that last, maybe we'll end with that goldenquestion.
All right.
(25:33):
Back on?
Okay.
So Kelly, based on your experience, what are the most important things that stand out tocollege applications?
And I think we're maybe talking about extracurricular activities, athletics, things ofthat nature.
Sure, extracurriculars like athletics, students who have art portfolios, students who haverobust community service, boy scouts as an eagle scout, girl scouts with a gold award,
(26:05):
things like that.
But for your athletes in particular, I can't stress enough how important it is to startreaching out to coaches yourself.
So often high school students think they're going to get seen.
you know, I had a great game.
I was written up in the newspaper and so and so is going to know.
(26:25):
Well, I can tell you that college coaches aren't reading the newspaper and they rarely goto a game hoping to see the next great athlete.
They have very limited recruiting budgets.
They want to know if they're going to show up somewhere to see someone that number one,there's at least one kid who already would go to their school.
(26:45):
And number two, that they're playing good competition.
Because if you're just gonna run all over the team, that doesn't really show what you cando.
So start reaching out to coaches early.
Coaches are gonna ignore you at first.
They're gonna ignore you.
It's like you're walking down the hall and the girl doesn't pay attention to you the firstthree times you smile at her while she's at her locker.
But the fourth time she turns her head and gives you a little nod.
(27:08):
So you've got to keep, you know.
Add it with the college coaches.
Don't take it as rejection.
they didn't respond.
I don't want to bother them.
It's your job to bother them.
It's your job to say, Hey, I'm really interested in your school.
I'm really interested in coming there.
I looked at the business program and I really like it, but I also like to continue myfootball career, my basketball career, whatever that is, and try to start having that
(27:32):
conversation.
It makes a big difference in the recruiting.
process, those kids who have done the work and reached out and not just sat back andwaited.
So, Jeffco athletes, what I hear Kelly saying is you must take the initiative.
Don't wait on your coach, don't wait on your parents or your family member or yourguardian.
Do it yourself.
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Reach out early, often, and just like on the field, you have to be resilient and don'ttake rejection the first or second time as that you're not a good athlete or that they
don't want you, but that you just have to be persistent.
Absolutely and parents, guess what?
They're not recruiting you.
They're recruiting your child.
They want to have a conversation with your child.
(28:13):
Coaches hate helicopter parents.
They don't want to have to coach you.
So please make your child take responsibility.
And if you're like, well, my child's shy and they don't want to do it.
They don't want to play bad enough.
So don't worry about
There you go.
So, Kelly, one thing that we are super focused on in Jeffco, and I know school districtsacross the nation are as well, is around students' mental health and their stress.
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Is there advice that you would give students, knowing that they're about ready to walkinto the school year this year and they are focused on their day -to -day?
They're focused on their day -to -day learning and their classes.
What are some of the ways students can manage stress during the application process?
So it's just like anything else in life.
(29:00):
When you think about the times you have felt the most stress, it's been when you felt themost unprepared, when you felt that you were running late, you were rushing to get
somewhere and then your Stanley mug falls or your coffee falls or whatever, right?
And so you don't want to be late.
So the earlier you can start the process, open up the Common App, it's commonapp .org.
(29:24):
Go in there, start filling out questions.
Once you get them filled out, then go to the guidance counselor and say, Hey, did I dothis right?
Don't go to them asking them to help you fill it out.
They don't have time for that.
So take that initiative to start doing it early.
Because if you feel better prepared, I looked at it.
It doesn't look so hard.
(29:44):
I filled this out.
Now I just need it checked.
The stress comes down drastically.
And another great tool for your students is college data.
All one word.
On there it shows the average acceptance rate.
It shows the average GPA.
It shows the average test scores.
(30:05):
You definitely want schools where you are above the averages.
You want schools that have above a 75 % acceptance rate.
Those are going to be the schools that are safety schools.
I should get in here.
I know I'm going to get to go to college at this school.
That's also a school where if you're above their averages, you're likely to get money.
(30:31):
If you're looking at schools where you're at the bottom of their average or below it,you're definitely not getting money.
And those are more of a reach.
Don't set yourself up with a bunch of reach schools just because the names are well known.
Look at the schools that are safeties.
What you get out of a college education has nothing to do with the name on the building.
(30:54):
It has to do with what you do while you're there.
So finding a place that feels like home where you can get involved, you can do a lot morethan just show up to class is where you're going to build a resume that an employer is
going to be happy to hire you afterwards.
Has nothing to do with the name on the building.
So look for those schools where you're likely to get money and you're above theiraverages.
(31:15):
And Kelly, as you think about that and finding your place and where you belong, it soundslike one piece of advice that I'm hearing you say is apply to more than just one college,
apply to more than just your dream school.
And also, it sounds like it's really hard to know if you're home if you haven't evervisited.
Is your advice that students go to a college campus that they're applying to and visit?
(31:40):
100%, if they can take that opportunity to visit, absolutely.
It is a game changer.
I like to visit about 20 or 30 schools a year.
And it helps me when I'm working with a student, I'm like, like this is the vibe.
I could see you at this school.
I went and visited the University of New Mexico.
(32:00):
This is right before COVID.
And like, if you didn't have a skateboard, you didn't fit in.
Like I was dodging skateboards left and right.
Like I was fearing for my, you know, I'm like, I'm too old to be doing this, but you know,like that's a little bit on a more, you know, extreme side of it, but literally every
college campus has a vibe, has a personality and you want to make sure it's thepersonality you're going to be happiest with.
(32:27):
And it has nothing to do with the name on the building.
So yeah, put that aside.
So pay no attention to the name on the building.
Kelly, thank you so much.
I know that you shared some resources.
Are there other resources as we close out today that you want to share with our audienceso that they either know, again, how to find that resource or how to find you?
(32:52):
So again, they can find a lot of the resources I've mentioned already and more at CollegeMade Easy by Kelly McLean on Facebook.
If they go to our website, kelly -mac .com, we have a lot of resources on there.
They can schedule a call.
(33:14):
We do complimentary consultations to help people kind of navigate the process.
That would be my best advice.
Thank you so much, Kelly.
This conversation has been so extremely helpful, especially, like I said, as a father oftwo, even though mine are in elementary now, I feel a little bit more prepared and know
(33:36):
that I need to get on things much earlier than, like I said, in my high school career whenI was in the 12th grade thinking about, so where should I go to college?
So thank you for helping us wrap our heads around the college application process and allthat goes into
to it.
you're very welcome.
(33:56):
Thanks so much for allowing me to pass along this information.
Thanks, Kelly.
Welcome back to Elevate Education Podcast.
I'm your host, Jason Firestone, and I'm thrilled to welcome Kelly McLean, the presidentand founder of the Kelly McLean Achievement Center, or KMAC, based in Ohio.
At KMAC, Kelly and her team focus on providing tailored information and resources to helpeach student find their best college fit.
Her comprehensive approach includes everything from major selection and career planning toACT, SAT prep, and fast foot prep, ACT and SAT prep.
(00:31):
and FASFA ACT and SAT prep and FASFA preparation and even continues through a student'sfreshman year in college.
Stay tuned as we learn about the college application process and how the decisionsstudents make today can make a huge difference in their tomorrow.
If you're navigating the complex world of college admissions, you won't want to missKelly's insights on finding the perfect college fit, securing scholarships, and setting
(01:00):
yourself up for long -term success.
So without further ado, let's dive into our conversation with Kelly McLean.
Welcome, Kelly.
Thank you so much for having me and thank you for the warm introduction.
Absolutely, and we are so excited to have you.
So when I think back, I mean...
way, way, way back to when I was a high school schooler thinking about college.
(01:28):
I had no idea what I was doing and what I needed to do.
And now, admittedly, I have two children of my own and I'm a little bit embarrassed to saythat even now with two kids, I am admittedly less informed than I should be.
So Kelly, if you wouldn't mind helping me out, let's start this conversation by groundingin the college application process and when families should be thinking about and
(01:56):
preparing themselves for the college application.
Certainly.
So the Common App just opened on August 1st.
So most people consider this application season.
But I like to think that the application process is really best prepared for long beforethat.
(02:18):
Crafting a list of schools that are going to provide the most opportunities.
Having an idea, you know, how are we picking those schools because we have an idea of whatwe'd like to study.
we have an idea of what schools might be generous with financial support.
so finding that great mix so that once the application season does open, you can go aheadand start filling that out, completing those pieces.
(02:46):
I also like to have students complete a resume prior to August 1st.
On the Common App, there's a section where they ask for 10 activities.
We tell students, better have 10 activities.
So if that means you've got to do a canned food drive in your neighborhood this week andtake it down to the food pantry, that's a great idea.
(03:07):
If you need to babysit for some neighbors so you can put babysitting on your list, thenyou need to do that.
But they want to see that you're going to be involved in the college community.
And so what's the best indicator that you'll be involved in the college community?
How much you were involved in your school community and your neighborhood community inserving others.
(03:29):
That's great advice.
Is there a grade or an age that a student should be thinking about those activities asthey think about what they're putting on a college application?
It really should start freshman year.
I think students should stop worrying about what they're good at and focusing on, well,I'll be good at this sport, so I'll do the sport, but nothing else.
(03:49):
I'll be good at theater, so I'll do that, but nothing else.
I think getting involved in clubs and trying them and sticking with the ones that resonatewith you then throughout high school, because colleges do like to see length, but just...
Trying new things is a great opportunity.
(04:10):
Not only does it allow them to have activities for their resume and show that they didparticipate, but it could spark an interest in them where that could lead to a future
career.
That could lead to, you know, a very meaningful hobby, something along those lines.
So I think it's really important for students to start getting involved.
(04:31):
Like the mindset freshman year should be, I'm here to try things.
I'm here to find out what's available to me.
That's incredible advice because I think maybe in some of our students and our families oreven some of our educators minds they're really thinking, know, their junior or their
senior year they need to be thinking about college, but you're saying no much, muchearlier on.
(04:52):
So that's amazing advice and hopefully our listeners are hearing that and as our familiesare thinking about that, our educators are thinking about that and our students are
thinking about that, we begin to think about that earlier on.
So thank you.
Now know that there's been some changes since I applied to college back in the Stone Ages.
What standardized tests are required for college and university applications?
(05:17):
That is a great question.
So during COVID, colleges, every college made the decision to go test optional, wherestandardized tests were no longer required.
The state of California for 28 straight months did not have a single test offered.
Well, there was no college in the United States that was going to say, well then we won'ttake any California kids.
(05:42):
They wanted their money too.
So they went test optional.
However, what we're seeing now though is more schools are going back to requiring tests.
And again, you know, I'm, I'm very big on, I want students to have as many options aspossible open to them.
So the sooner they start thinking about what do they want in a college?
(06:07):
What do they like?
What do they want to pursue?
What hobbies, what extracurriculars?
and start looking at colleges that offer those items, they can see, know, like, wow, theydo require a test.
I better take the test early, get a decent score, take the test early, do miserably andrealize what I need to work on so that I can still open that opportunity for myself.
(06:35):
Students shouldn't find out late in the game, I'm going to apply to Purdue, University ofTennessee.
wait, they need a test score?
I can't go there.
That's, you know, a really poor reason to not be able to follow your dream because youdidn't know about that requirement early enough.
Absolutely, and I appreciate because what I'm hearing you say is you can always retake atest one of those standardized tests over again If you don't do well the first time
(07:05):
Absolutely, you can take it as many times as you'd like and the overwhelming majority ofthe schools with the exception of some IVs and Just a couple others.
They only want your best score.
So if you take it six times That's okay.
Now.
I realize most kids don't want to do that But if it changes how much you'll pay forschool, you might be interested in really working to get that score up
(07:30):
So as we think about key deadlines for each part of the college application process, arethere things that families should be and students should be thinking about that?
And when we talk about applications, financial aid, and scholarships?
Yes, definitely.
So we're going to tackle scholarships as a side because it's its own beast.
(07:53):
But here's what I can tell you.
Every school has deadlines for their applications.
There's early action.
Early action, you can apply to as many schools as you'd like.
Most schools early actions are somewhere between October 15th and December 1st.
Most students think if they apply two days before that early action deadline that they're
(08:15):
early and they are not.
We like students to be at minimum, minimum a month before the deadline.
The sooner the better.
Having worked in college admissions, I can tell you most admissions departments whenapplications open up, they're like, we've got to fill this class.
This is our income.
(08:35):
These are our customers.
We need to see what kind of income we're going to be able to generate for next year.
So let's get this class filled.
But
As the class starts getting filled, it's no longer about let's take whoever's best.
It becomes, what do we still need as the school?
The band director needs a tuba player.
(08:57):
We still need to fill the history department.
We've got the anthropology department is on thin ice.
Like we've got to get kids into that program.
We still need more diversity in our program.
And that's not just talking about race.
It could be diversity in some other form of background, something unique, some differentaspect.
(09:20):
More learning happens when you bring new mindsets together, different backgrounds.
It also could be, and people don't think about this, but it could be the nursing programdoesn't have any men in it.
We need some male applicants.
So you could be a female applicant with great grades and test scores, but they've gotenough female applicants now.
(09:41):
So.
They're looking for something else.
So the bottom line is college is a business and they're looking to create a community thatis likely to go on and do well.
So they're looking at grades and test scores.
Past performance is the biggest indicator of how they'll do in the future.
They're looking to fill all the different little pieces of their puzzle.
(10:05):
Nobody needs 27 mayors.
They need parts of the community throughout the whole thing.
So getting your application in early when the mindset is more like we've got to fill theclass, not we've got to plug holes, is going to be a big game changer for certain kids in
situations.
But if we're going to talk about scholarships, we are talking about scholarships for allyour freshmen right now.
(10:29):
Because your freshmen, their grades are the biggest indicator to how they will doscholarship -wise.
When a college can offer you a scholarship, they're giving you that amount of money timesfour years.
That is the biggest money you will ever get.
So your freshmen grades, sophomore grades, junior grades, guess what?
Senior grades don't count.
(10:49):
So you've got a crush at these three years thinking like, well, I'll make it up my senioryear.
I've still got junior and senior year.
You're late to the party.
you, the better you can...
encourage students that freshman year grades are pivotal to getting paid.
And if we make the conversation more about, a college will pay you to come instead of likescholarship money, which seems so like aloof, distant, way down the road.
(11:19):
No, college is going to pay you.
Wait, somebody's going to give me money?
Then that's a different story.
And now I'm more likely to put in the work.
I'm more likely to think about my grades in those terms of getting paid.
And I mean, there's great scholarship opportunities out there for students with goodgrades.
So what I hear you saying is that, one, probably good for our families and our students toput deadlines a month before on their calendars so that they don't wait till the last
(11:49):
minute.
And that you don't know what diversity you may represent.
So just always think of yourself as a diverse student who would be a value and an asset toa college or program, depending on which program or which college you're going to attend.
Yes.
So, and that's where the college application essay comes in.
(12:09):
So important as well as the resume is where you can show your unique aspect.
the overwhelming 50, 60 % of students participate in sports in high school do not writeabout the ACLU tour, about the hard work.
(12:29):
about how you've been in your sport since you were five years old and it's everything toyou and it's taught you so many life lessons.
Nobody cares.
Colleges are sick of hearing it.
That's not helping you stand out at all.
They're looking for the realization you had, the unique perspective you bring tosomething, something different in your background, some story that really sets you apart.
(12:56):
And when we work with students, we have a special mind mapping process to help studentsthink differently about what they can write.
Because most students think about their high school world and it's, it's prettyhomogenous.
Like most kids are going to high school doing the same things.
So we're really looking to make them stand out.
(13:20):
Like what's that that separates them?
So as you think about that unique identity that would separate a student from anotherstudent, what advice or what should students include or not include in their personal
statements or essays to make it stand out?
So we love for students, like I said, to include some form of growth, realization, somedifference, and a great hook.
(13:49):
Never start, and this is how I explain it to students, most people rarely pay to go see adocumentary.
The historical outline.
I started playing soccer when I was five.
I continued and I played travel.
I played club and now I play high school and now I'm the captain and I've learned so much.
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Nobody cares.
People pay for the story.
They pay for the emotional attachment.
So a great college essay has a story and that story gives hints of what that realizationis of what the student has learned without coming out and telling.
(14:33):
the story.
And if you don't mind, I'll share a first paragraph of a common app essay that we sharewith all of our students.
Okay, great.
Bear with me one second.
I'm going to pull this up.
Just one second.
And we share this because I think it's very difficult.
(14:54):
Students have been taught to write facts.
Tell us about the character in the story.
Tell us about this historical
information they have not been taught to really write creatively.
And I meet students, really good students who, I'm a good creative writer, and they stillneed to kind of, you know, transition.
(15:15):
So here, I'll read this fairly quickly.
This is a first paragraph.
It gives insight into what a student has learned or what revelation they've had.
And, but it has the reader thinking like, where are they going so that the reader wants tocontinue?
The small grimy McDonald's coffee cup bearing not coffee, but loose change captured myattention.
(15:38):
Holding the cup was a disheveled 30 something year old man sporting a pair of ripped, notin the stylish way, jeans, an oversized gray blue jacket with frays near the bottom and a
sizable tear near the right chest pocket.
He had on a once black, now faded gray New York Yankees hat that cast a shadow over hissullen eyes.
His unkept beard rusted against the loose tattered collar portion
(16:02):
of his faded white undershirt as he sat slouched against the cold concrete building.
Stopped staring, my mom's somewhat quiet but firm request snapped me from my transfixedstate and I looked away for a second in the direction we were walking.
It was my first time visiting New York City and amidst all of the skyscraper streetperformers, corner bodegas and street vendors, my focus was on this apparently unhoused
(16:24):
man.
Shouldn't we give him a few dollars, I asked my dad.
My question was met with an odd mix of begrudging irritation and indignant contempt.
No, he would just use that money for drugs.
My attention shifted shamefully to my hand that was firmly grasping the handles of twoNordstrom bags, each one holding a designer shirt, pants and accessories, souvenir from
(16:48):
our time in the city.
As we walked farther down the street, I glanced back at the man, his forearm resting onhis knee, hands still hopelessly holding onto the styrofoam cup.
And perhaps for the first time in my life, I truly questioned my parents.
And then the essay goes on to talk about the student's original assumption about povertyand homelessness and his views versus his views now versus what he had been told growing
(17:15):
up.
And so it shows so much insight and growth.
Absolutely, and as you were reading that, I could plug in the said famous actor as they'rewalking down the street, so the description and everything that you had told our audience
is playing out exactly as you said.
And it really gets you curious about what's coming next.
(17:37):
Right, versus the, I've played soccer since I was five.
We know where it's going, we don't need to read it.
I have a student who has a very bad food allergies, very, very bad.
And she made comments about how people have dismissed her food allergies.
just go ahead and have it, I'm sure it's fine.
I'm sure they don't put peanuts in that, whatever.
We didn't start her essay talking about how she couldn't have birthday treats.
(18:02):
Instead, we talked about how her teacher
Said come you have to sit over here.
I need you sitting at the table next to me because everyone Would know how it would feelto be singled out in class and be told to go sit in the front of the room And so no one's
going to dismiss that as food allergies aren't that big a deal like why is she writingabout this now?
(18:25):
They just know she's been ostracized and they'll relate to her more
Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing the humanity in which you help students describethemselves and their experiences as a way for people to see them and stand out from the
thousands of other essays they may read that are coming in.
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So I think that a lot of students hear the phrase, how are you going to make money doingthat from their parents, from their peers, from maybe educators even?
How do you work with parents and students to share an open mindset about going to collegeand choosing majors?
So I think too often there's a limitation on majors where parents, well -meaning parents,do want their kids to be able to self -support, but they look at, what are you good at?
(19:17):
You're good at math, do this.
You're good at science, do this.
You're good at English.
And that is so restrictive.
And most parents have no idea what the up and coming careers are because they don't studythat.
So we encourage students to look at it differently.
We want students to start thinking about how do you wanna spend your day?
Who do you wanna help?
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How do you wanna make an impact?
Where can you make a difference?
What's one thing you could do now to work towards that?
How can you make a change today?
Who can you help in your community?
What could you do that would be different?
And then start thinking about what would that look like as a career?
And there's just such.
(19:59):
great valuable resources online.
mean, obviously we help students do this, but for students who are doing this on theirown, you know, going to bls .gov backslash OOH, the Bureau of Labor Statistics keeps
valuable information and they can search hundreds of careers to discover there'll becareers that never heard of.
(20:24):
they're like, wait, this is a job.
People do this.
And I think that's so valuable to get them to stop thinking engineer, doctor, lawyer,teacher, nurse, pediatrician, you know, those types of things.
But for the creative fields, I know parents are terrified and there's so many waysstudents can take their creative ability and put them into well paying careers, but they
(20:50):
have to investigate what those routes are and you know, really think through that.
process.
And when they're looking at colleges, they should be looking at what kind of co -ops,cooperative opportunities with employers would they get?
Because if they get co -ops, that means there's jobs available out there because employersaren't creating some fake job for a college kid.
(21:11):
They're looking for like, who's the next person we could potentially hire.
And so when they're looking at the career path, you know, what colleges are going to givethem some of those opportunities, because that indicates there are really paying jobs in
that field.
I think that's such great advice as we think about the ever -changing job field andfinding things that you're really passionate about and that you don't want just a job, but
(21:37):
as you're going to college, you're really thinking about a career, your future, and thelong term.
So I really appreciate you and how you explain that.
So thank you, Kelly.
Sure.
So knowing that we're a school district and obviously comprised of teachers andcounselors, how can counselors and teachers support students in the college application
(21:58):
process?
So I think it's really important to do things early.
I find too often it's pushed back to mid September.
Let's get the school year underway.
And for students who haven't been, you know, working on things on their own up until thatpoint to start September 15th and want to apply to a college with an early action deadline
(22:27):
of
October 15th or November 1st, which is very common, they're kind of already behind theeight ball.
So doing things early, I think it's really important.
think every junior English teacher should be really focused on how to write a really goodcollege application essay, not a grammatically correct essay, an emotionally moving,
(22:53):
creative story essay.
So that I see kids all the time, I got an A last year.
My junior teacher had me write this and I'm like, there's no way we could use that.
it doesn't move anybody.
There's no feeling there.
So I think if teachers are, you know, better informed on what, on the kids that aregetting selected, how are they getting selected and that this is a big portion of it, then
(23:19):
they can better help the students and starting the process earlier with the common app andso forth.
in August and not waiting until September to really get kids moving on that.
So as teachers and counselors think about those resources, are there resources availablethat you could point to or advice that you would give around resources for folks in the
(23:42):
education field to help a student with their college application?
So we're happy to provide resources for schools and teachers and so forth.
There's an online, we have an online portal, a Facebook page, it's a private group.
It is free.
(24:02):
It's College Made Easy by Kelly McLean.
We post a lot of great resources in there for parents.
We invite questions from families and answer their questions.
You know, if they have individual specific questions, happy to do that.
Great, thank you.
And again, for our listening audience, Kelly McLean Achievement Center, or KMAC, is how wefind and how students and educators and families can find you, correct?
(24:34):
All right, excellent.
All right, I'm gonna take a timeout, Kelly, and I'm gonna just check, because we kindawent through the questions quickly.
I we were limited on time.
Is there a question specific that I didn't ask that you wanted me to highlight before weclose?
No, I think you did a great job of covering things.
Maybe, I don't know if it, do you feel it's relevant if we touch on college athletics,like kids who are looking to make that next step?
(25:03):
absolutely.
Yeah, okay, so that golden question there, that last, maybe we'll end with that goldenquestion.
All right.
(25:33):
Back on?
Okay.
So Kelly, based on your experience, what are the most important things that stand out tocollege applications?
And I think we're maybe talking about extracurricular activities, athletics, things ofthat nature.
Sure, extracurriculars like athletics, students who have art portfolios, students who haverobust community service, boy scouts as an eagle scout, girl scouts with a gold award,
(26:05):
things like that.
But for your athletes in particular, I can't stress enough how important it is to startreaching out to coaches yourself.
So often high school students think they're going to get seen.
you know, I had a great game.
I was written up in the newspaper and so and so is going to know.
(26:25):
Well, I can tell you that college coaches aren't reading the newspaper and they rarely goto a game hoping to see the next great athlete.
They have very limited recruiting budgets.
They want to know if they're going to show up somewhere to see someone that number one,there's at least one kid who already would go to their school.
(26:45):
And number two, that they're playing good competition.
Because if you're just gonna run all over the team, that doesn't really show what you cando.
So start reaching out to coaches early.
Coaches are gonna ignore you at first.
They're gonna ignore you.
It's like you're walking down the hall and the girl doesn't pay attention to you the firstthree times you smile at her while she's at her locker.
But the fourth time she turns her head and gives you a little nod.
(27:08):
So you've got to keep, you know.
Add it with the college coaches.
Don't take it as rejection.
they didn't respond.
I don't want to bother them.
It's your job to bother them.
It's your job to say, Hey, I'm really interested in your school.
I'm really interested in coming there.
I looked at the business program and I really like it, but I also like to continue myfootball career, my basketball career, whatever that is, and try to start having that
(27:32):
conversation.
It makes a big difference in the recruiting.
process, those kids who have done the work and reached out and not just sat back andwaited.
So, Jeffco athletes, what I hear Kelly saying is you must take the initiative.
Don't wait on your coach, don't wait on your parents or your family member or yourguardian.
Do it yourself.
(27:53):
Reach out early, often, and just like on the field, you have to be resilient and don'ttake rejection the first or second time as that you're not a good athlete or that they
don't want you, but that you just have to be persistent.
Absolutely and parents, guess what?
They're not recruiting you.
They're recruiting your child.
They want to have a conversation with your child.
(28:13):
Coaches hate helicopter parents.
They don't want to have to coach you.
So please make your child take responsibility.
And if you're like, well, my child's shy and they don't want to do it.
They don't want to play bad enough.
So don't worry about
There you go.
So, Kelly, one thing that we are super focused on in Jeffco, and I know school districtsacross the nation are as well, is around students' mental health and their stress.
(28:39):
Is there advice that you would give students, knowing that they're about ready to walkinto the school year this year and they are focused on their day -to -day?
They're focused on their day -to -day learning and their classes.
What are some of the ways students can manage stress during the application process?
So it's just like anything else in life.
(29:00):
When you think about the times you have felt the most stress, it's been when you felt themost unprepared, when you felt that you were running late, you were rushing to get
somewhere and then your Stanley mug falls or your coffee falls or whatever, right?
And so you don't want to be late.
So the earlier you can start the process, open up the Common App, it's commonapp .org.
(29:24):
Go in there, start filling out questions.
Once you get them filled out, then go to the guidance counselor and say, Hey, did I dothis right?
Don't go to them asking them to help you fill it out.
They don't have time for that.
So take that initiative to start doing it early.
Because if you feel better prepared, I looked at it.
It doesn't look so hard.
(29:44):
I filled this out.
Now I just need it checked.
The stress comes down drastically.
And another great tool for your students is college data.
All one word.
On there it shows the average acceptance rate.
It shows the average GPA.
It shows the average test scores.
(30:05):
You definitely want schools where you are above the averages.
You want schools that have above a 75 % acceptance rate.
Those are going to be the schools that are safety schools.
I should get in here.
I know I'm going to get to go to college at this school.
That's also a school where if you're above their averages, you're likely to get money.
(30:31):
If you're looking at schools where you're at the bottom of their average or below it,you're definitely not getting money.
And those are more of a reach.
Don't set yourself up with a bunch of reach schools just because the names are well known.
Look at the schools that are safeties.
What you get out of a college education has nothing to do with the name on the building.
(30:54):
It has to do with what you do while you're there.
So finding a place that feels like home where you can get involved, you can do a lot morethan just show up to class is where you're going to build a resume that an employer is
going to be happy to hire you afterwards.
Has nothing to do with the name on the building.
So look for those schools where you're likely to get money and you're above theiraverages.
(31:15):
And Kelly, as you think about that and finding your place and where you belong, it soundslike one piece of advice that I'm hearing you say is apply to more than just one college,
apply to more than just your dream school.
And also, it sounds like it's really hard to know if you're home if you haven't evervisited.
Is your advice that students go to a college campus that they're applying to and visit?
(31:40):
100%, if they can take that opportunity to visit, absolutely.
It is a game changer.
I like to visit about 20 or 30 schools a year.
And it helps me when I'm working with a student, I'm like, like this is the vibe.
I could see you at this school.
I went and visited the University of New Mexico.
(32:00):
This is right before COVID.
And like, if you didn't have a skateboard, you didn't fit in.
Like I was dodging skateboards left and right.
Like I was fearing for my, you know, I'm like, I'm too old to be doing this, but you know,like that's a little bit on a more, you know, extreme side of it, but literally every
college campus has a vibe, has a personality and you want to make sure it's thepersonality you're going to be happiest with.
(32:27):
And it has nothing to do with the name on the building.
So yeah, put that aside.
So pay no attention to the name on the building.
Kelly, thank you so much.
I know that you shared some resources.
Are there other resources as we close out today that you want to share with our audienceso that they either know, again, how to find that resource or how to find you?
(32:52):
So again, they can find a lot of the resources I've mentioned already and more at CollegeMade Easy by Kelly McLean on Facebook.
If they go to our website, kelly -mac .com, we have a lot of resources on there.
They can schedule a call.
(33:14):
We do complimentary consultations to help people kind of navigate the process.
That would be my best advice.
Thank you so much, Kelly.
This conversation has been so extremely helpful, especially, like I said, as a father oftwo, even though mine are in elementary now, I feel a little bit more prepared and know
(33:36):
that I need to get on things much earlier than, like I said, in my high school career whenI was in the 12th grade thinking about, so where should I go to college?
So thank you for helping us wrap our heads around the college application process and allthat goes into
to it.
you're very welcome.
(33:56):
Thanks so much for allowing me to pass along this information.
Thanks, Kelly.
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