March 18, 2024 • 34 mins
In this thought-provoking podcast episode, Jeff and Aurora delve deep into the topic of dismantling patriarchy through play. They explore the impact of societal norms on individuals, the role of neurodivergence in challenging the status quo, and the importance of celebrating uniqueness. Through personal anecdotes and insightful discussions, they highlight the power of embracing one's intensity and fostering connections through play. Stay tuned to gain valuable insights on creating a more inclusive and empathetic world through intentional actions and meaningful engagement.
The podcast discussion delves into the intersection of play, patriarchy, neurodiversity, and societal norms. Jeff and Aurora explore the impact of patriarchy on both men and women, emphasizing the importance of men becoming allies to women and the need to challenge traditional gender roles. They highlight the power of play in fostering connection, breaking free from societal expectations, and celebrating neurodiversity. The conversation encourages embracing uniqueness, challenging the status quo, and fostering a sense of community and connection through play.
About Jeff
Jeff Harry, the founder of Rediscover Your Play, runs an organization dedicated to making work more enjoyable through play and positive psychology. With a strong belief that play can heal workplaces and communities, Jeff emphasizes the importance of embracing intensity and connecting with others authentically. He advocates for celebrating neurodivergence and challenging societal norms to create a more inclusive and empathetic world. Jeff's work focuses on dismantling patriarchy by encouraging allies to women and fostering deeper connections through play.
In this episode:
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Jeff emphasizes the importance of play in healing workplaces and communities.
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Play is discussed as a tool for challenging the status quo and encouraging connection.
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Aurora and Jeff share stories about the power of play to bring people together.
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Celebrating neurodivergency and uniqueness is highlighted as a way to dismantle patriarchy.
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Remote companionship is discussed as both beneficial and limited in replacing in-person connections.
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The impact of societal norms on neurodivergent individuals and the need for acceptance and celebration.
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Historical examples like the 54th during the Civil War are used to showcase the ripple effects of small actions.
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The concept of the "cathedral effect" is introduced, encouraging individuals to make a difference even if they may not see the immediate results.
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The Embracing Intensity community is promoted as a supportive space for intense and gifted individuals to connect and grow.
Resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeff (00:00):
The patriarchy doesn't benefit any of us.
(00:02):
Like you would think thatit would benefit men, right?
It benefits some men, but a majorityof men are not succeeding in this.
They're not enjoying it.
And they don't like it asmuch as many women don't.
And I think that's the part that I wantto be communicating more is there's a lot
of men that want to be allies to women.
They don't know how to be.
(00:23):
And if we could figure out that.
We could then help to start to dismantleit together because we can't do it alone.
Aurora (00:36):
Welcome to the Embracing Intensity podcast.
I'll be sharing interviews and tips forgifted, creative, twice exceptional,
and outside the box thinkers whouse their fire in a positive way.
My name is Aurora Remember Holtzman.
After years of feeling too much, Ifinally realized that intensity is
the source of my greatest power.
(00:57):
Now, instead of beating myself up aboutnot measuring up to my own self imposed
standards, I'm on a mission to help peopleembrace their own intensity and befriend
their brains so they can share theirgifts with the world through the Embracing
Intensity community, coaching, educationalassessment, and other tools to help you
use your fire without getting burned.
(01:18):
You can join us at embracingintensity.
com.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hello!
Today I get to share part ofour conversation on dismantling
(01:41):
patriarchy through play with JeffHarry of rediscover your play.
You can access the full video discussionin the guest call library or all access
membership where you can find my selfregulation course, and neurodivergent
planner and journal tools as well.
Including my new ND relationshipjournal with great prompts for
(02:02):
exploring how to support our partnersneurodivergent needs together.
Something I really appreciate about Jeffis that his work dispels, the myth that
you have to choose between depth and play.
In fact, play helps accessdeeper conversations that would
be harder to have without it.
It's one of the reasons I alwaysinclude at least one play themed
talk in my speakers every year.
(02:24):
There's a lot more to diveinto around these topics.
And if you'd like to continue theconversation, join us in the free
embracing intensity community where I'mworking on encouraging more discussion.
Find us at community dot,embracing intensity.com.
Enjoy.
Welcome everyone.
So I'm super thrilled tohave Jeff come join us again.
(02:48):
Every time we've chatted,it's been fantastic.
And we're going to be talking about um,
Jeff (02:55):
Dismantling patriarchy through play.
Yes.
Among other things.
Aurora (03:00):
Among other things.
So, I met Jeff actually at the worlddomination summit many years ago.
And he'd been on the podcast and hedid another one on playing with your
inner critic, which has to be one of myfavorite topics that we've had so far.
And the last year or so, I've been seeinga lot more posts from him about playing
(03:23):
and the patriarchy and getting kindof deep in that, that nuance of play
and so I just think it's been great.
And I was really excited.
Oh, world domination summit?
So, there's a guy, Chris Guillebeau,he's an author and entrepreneur guy,
and he did it for 10 years in Portland.
The last one was rescheduled dueto the pandemic and I couldn't
(03:44):
make it because of a move.
But they all gathered in Portlandand they had speakers and then they
had these like informal meetups.
So you could just decide to havea meetup one day and meet a bunch
of people around this topic.
It was very cool, but yeah,they don't do it anymore.
I don't know what they're doing now, but.
So I'm going to go ahead and letyou guys introduce yourselves.
(04:05):
So Jeff knows who he's talking to, andthen I'll let Jeff kind of get things
started and we can start the conversation.
Awesome.
Glad to have you.
So we're going to start out withkind of more Q and a type thing
through the chat, and then we'llopen up for more verbal discussion.
So welcome everyone.
I'm going to go ahead and muteeveryone except for Jeff and let
(04:29):
you introduce yourself, Jeff.
Welcome.
Glad to have you!
Jeff (04:32):
Oh, awesome.
Oh, I'm excited about this.
Let's see where this goes because Ihave no idea where it's going to go.
Do this.
So Jeff Harry.
I run an organizationcalled Rediscovery or Play.
The whole goal of it is to make work suckless through play and positive psychology.
But really, really it'sabout healing workplaces.
(04:53):
And I'm only kind of doing it as anexperiment because I have this strong
belief that play heals workplaces.
Like the world, right?
Like it heals communities.
It can heal division.
It can heal political spectrums.
I've seen it done in many ways,and I'm happy to share the
ways in which I have seen it.
(05:15):
But the reason why I tie it to patriarchyyou know, and like, and capitalism is
because like, for all of us, The vibeis it's not working like none of this is
working right like work isn't working Youknow how we live isn't working many of
us like I fly all around the country Sowe got 50 to 60 places a year maybe more.
(05:39):
People don't want to work anymorepeople feel exploited used Taking
advantage of And that's justin the working world, right?
We're not even just talking about likehealthcare and education and all these
things that are supposed to solve problemsand instead cause all these problems.
And it's really interesting.
I love that everyone shared, you know,their various like neurodivergent
(06:02):
perspectives because my friend Maddie andLauren Yee of This Us Now, we're running
a neurodivergent workshop yesterdaythat I was helping to support and film.
And There's so many of us that justdon't fit within the system, right?
That just We've never fit, but now it'sso blatant, especially after the pandemic.
(06:28):
And I love, I think itwas that was sharing.
She's like, I'm creating awhole new curriculum for myself.
The amount of people that I've hearddo that, where they're like, I'm
letting go of all the West certain,you know, perspectives or the Western
teaching methods and going completelyagainst all of this and making
something brand new, just to revoltagainst the fact that none of this.
(06:51):
the current society and how we'rerunning stuff is working is a story
that I've heard so many times.
And I'm trying to think of the, youknow, you see this a ton on TikTok where
now people are almost like revoltingagainst the system in a variety of ways,
whether like coming up with new waysof working, coming up with new ways
(07:13):
of like, you know, surviving, Or justbeing like, I'm now moving to a farm
and who else wants to come with me?
So that's like, that's the contextin which we're walking into where you
have, you know, some people still gointo Olive Garden and watching, the
new local news at night, you know,and totally bought into the system.
(07:33):
But a majority of us that are like, Youknow, I can't do what my parents did.
It's just, it's not sustainable.
It wasn't sustainable then, butnow it's blatantly not sustainable.
And this is where I feel play canstart to dismantle this fragile pale
male, stale patriarchy that we have.
Aurora (07:55):
Awesome.
And, I'm just looking at the chat.
Oh, yes, I'm a bottom up thinker.
And when I learn in that way, it goes wayfaster for me to understand something.
And by then I suddenly go so fast thatother people cannot follow me anymore.
Yeah, I can see that for sure.
So, Circling back, you had shared anarticle when we kind of started this
(08:16):
process and you shared a story that wasrelevant and how it tied to all of this.
Jeff (08:22):
Oh, you're talking about Christmas in the trenches.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
So for any of y'all that aren'tfamiliar with the story, it's one of
my favorite stories about play is playwas able to stop a war for like a day.
And it happened in World War One.
And it was probably in within thefirst three months of World War One.
(08:45):
There was this like battleground thathad just been at a stalemate for like
three months and it was the battle wasbetween Germans, Irish and the English.
The Irish and English against the Germans.
And most of the soldiers were like 18, 19.
And if you, you know, if you everdid any like historical analysis
of World War One, a lot of peopledidn't even know why they started it.
(09:06):
Like, it was very confusing for thefirst one, you know, so especially
for the soldiers, they didn'treally know why they were there.
And if you can imagine being 18 or 19years old, like, stuck in this, deep
mud in the trenches I don't even knowwhere exactly they were yeah, like,
in no man's land, and On ChristmasEve they're just sitting there, it's
(09:30):
nighttime, and a German soldier actuallystarted singing Silent Night in German.
And then apparently this Irishbagpiper, or Irish guy, you know,
started playing some instrument that,like, came in unison with Silent
Night and then a group of Englishmenstarted singing Silent Night in English
(09:54):
over the, over No Man's Land, right?
Which was like, oh my goodness,like, okay, this is kind of
random and weird, but also thisis how much we want connection.
And then that German soldier came out witha white flag and came into No Man's Land.
And then so did someone from theEnglish and someone from Ireland.
They all met.
(10:15):
I think it was not Ireland,I believe it was Scottish.
But they all met in the middle and theystarted, like, exchanging chocolate
and, like, cigars and things like that.
And it caused more people to come out andhang out, and that was the opportunity for
them to actually remove a lot of You know,their fallen comrades whose bodies were
(10:37):
just like strewn across this battlefield.
And then after they did that and they werehanging out, someone brought a soccer ball
and they played soccer on the field wherethey had been shooting at one another.
And the craziest part about this isthis happened all across the line.
So we're talking aboutlike hundreds of miles.
(10:57):
And sometimes it didn't work out well.
Some people came out with the whiteflag came out and they just got shot.
But the, like, the willingness to wantto connect and want to play and want
to just feel human again was so greatthat people were willing to risk their
lives in order to feel human, right?
(11:19):
And the next day they all went back, youknow, and they had also exchanged pictures
and cards and all this other stuff,so that when their generals were like,
alright, let's begin the battle again,Most of them didn't want to do it, so
they had to pull everyone off the line.
And then since then all militaryfights on those nostalgic holidays,
(11:41):
like Christmas and Christmas Eve,because they know that they do not want
to build humanity with one another.
And I found that to just to be such apowerful story because like, even at that
point where you're literally shooting atpeople, you know, Slay can intervene and
create like humanity where you would neverthink humanity should exist, which is,
(12:03):
you know, the battlefield of a world war.
and one other thing I just want to add,so I'm randomly visiting England last
year because I want to see Liverpool.
That's my team, you know,I love soccer, right?
And I'm in Liverpooland I'm about to leave.
And I was like, let me justswing by this bombed out church.
Like everyone calls itthe bombed out church.
(12:25):
And when I went there.
You know, it's clearly a bombedout church from World War Two.
But then all of a sudden I sawthis statue from that battle
from Christmas in the trenches.
And it's called Christmas inthe trenches because it's a song
that's sung by this America.
I mean, is it American?
He might be American, but yeah.
Sung by this, this singertelling this story.
(12:48):
And when this singer used to play,he would play all over Europe.
And I believe he might'veeven been playing in.
in Germany when he was playing thissong a lot of people don't believe it.
A lot of people think it's a myth andhe was playing one day and there was
these old group of guys that would comein at the end just to listen to the
song and then they would just leave.
(13:10):
And the last night he was playing, afterhe finished the song, he chased them down.
He's like, who are you?
You know?
And they were like, we
were there.
Like people don't believeit, but we were there.
So like the power of that, thefact that I saw that statue at
Liverpool, I was like, this is
meant to be,
oh my Godness.
So I love it.
(13:31):
This is also why I love Liverpool so much.
You never walk alone.
Aurora (13:37):
And that, that kind of brings to mind just how, sometimes when we're
removed from a current situation,it enables us to kind of bring in
that spirit of play a little bit.
And I think that's, you know, withthe pandemic, I think that kind of
shook us out of our regular box.
And I think, trying to re assimilate andmake things go back as usual or late.
(13:59):
The same when we know it's not
talking about kind of getting backinto like, normal, not necessarily
normal, but like functioning in theworld that we have to function in.
So like, when you have those experiencesthat kind of fundamentally shift how you
perceive the world or how things , aremoving, but then you have to like, Go back
(14:21):
into the system that you, it doesn't fit.
And I know this is kind of your world interms of your training and everything that
you do, like, what are some things thatyou found have been helpful in continuing
to hold onto that that spirit of play whenyou're having to deal with the real world?
Jeff (14:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I'll answer it ina story format, right?
So.
I found something almost asgood as World Domination Summit.
I think it's dope.
It's out of Canada.
It happens in September.
And it's called Camp Reset.
And it's a bunch of play people.
It's just people that are playing,and they go to this, area four
(15:03):
hours out of Toronto for likethree, four days, just all adults.
And there are only threerules to the whole camp.
And mind you, they're at likea children's camp, right?
So there's like, you know, swimmingand, you know, water slides and
all, like all the things thatyou'd usually see at a camp.
(15:23):
So the three rules are no worktalk, no real names, no phones.
So I've been going for two years.
I have at least six or seven friends thatI have no idea what their real name is.
Even now, like I just don't evenknow, I don't know what they do.
And it's great because like the, thisidea of dropping ego, this idea of like
(15:47):
being present, like not on your phone.
And this idea that you're not builtaround your work or you're not built
around your name is really empoweringto actually connect with another person.
It's also.
Really scary because you go back towhen you're 13 or 12 because you're
like, what am I going to talk about?
(16:07):
Like, I don't have anything totalk about because usually I'm
like, what do you do for a living?
How's the weather?
Blah, blah, you know, allthe boring questions, right?
So we actually talk about this becauseon the last day we're like, okay,
Everyone gets their phones back.
And there's something that's reallyactually interesting that they do
is like, or what we did is a lot ofpeople would run around during camp and
(16:29):
pretend to take photos with their hands.
Like they were just pretending thatthey, and then when someone finally
was like, Hey, I have my phone back.
Do you want to take a photo?
Everyone's like, No,you don't get the point.
Like, like we want tobe present right now.
So having to then go back into likethis craziness of Toronto or New
(16:49):
York or wherever else people weregoing back to, it's like jarring.
It's, you know, it's jarring anytimeyou come back from any retreat, right?
So my recommendation or what I tookaway from that camp was you got to
pick the things that you feel likelike resonate and would vibe, right?
(17:11):
So for me, I don't askpeople what they do.
Like that was one of my takeaways.
I don't care.
Like that's not who you are, you know,just because he's a software engineer
doesn't mean now that I'm going to justask him a software engineer question.
Maybe he doesn't want to talk about that.
Maybe that's not like relevant, right?
You know, I asked nowpeople a different question.
I asked them like, what's your mischief?
(17:34):
I don't know what that means.
They don't either.
But then all of a sudden it creates anopportunity for people to be like, well,
tell, let me tell you what my mischief is.
Right.
Right.
So that's just one way, right?
Like figuring out other ways in whichlike, okay, I want to be more present.
Okay, I'm not going tobring my phone somewhere.
Oh my gosh, like that's the scariestthing having ghost phone where you're
(17:56):
not touching it and all the time, like,you know, but challenging the status quo.
I mean, she's doing it right nowwith like what she's learning, right?
She's doing shamanic and all theseother like Things that totally
challenge, totally go againsteverything that we've been told to do.
You know, many of my friends are doingvery similar things, where they're tapping
(18:18):
back into, like they're divine feminine.
What's interesting about play, play ismuch more feminine than it is masculine.
It's collaborative, it's connected, it'sintuit, you're following your intuition,
you know, it's all these different things.
So like, even I am like, doing moreprograms or connecting with people in
(18:39):
a way that is much more following myfeminine in order to learn that balance.
Aurora (18:47):
I was just looking at the chat here.
So we got yeah, I usually alwaysskip small talk and just start
talking about what I'm thinkingabout when I meet new people.
Yep.
Also, instead of askingpeople, how are you?
I tend to ask, how are you holdingup to show that I'm interested
in the real answer and not justsocially expected response.
Yep.
Totally.
This has been a longstanding thing for me.
People have been thrown off by it.
(19:08):
One of the reasons I didn'tlove living in the DC area.
Is very much what I call aresume and business card town.
Yeah.
I have all kinds of thingsthat could fit on a resume, but
it's not who I am as a person.
I have several friends whoI don't know what they do.
We just vibe.
Yeah, totally.
Jeff (19:26):
Right.
It's the vibe.
And let me just respond to DC.
It's DC, dude.
DC is such a transactional city, right?
And my favorite play, you know,thought leader Kevin Carroll would
always ask, do you want to havea transactional conversation or a
transformational conversation, right?
(19:47):
And you can feel that.
You can feel it in D.
C., you can feel it in NewYork, you feel it in L.
A., where people are like, well, whatmovie you've been on or what studio?
Like, How do I get something from you?
And DC is one of the most transactionalones because they're like, which
congressman do you work for?
You don't work for a congressman.
I don't really feel like talking toyou anymore because you can't help me.
Right.
(20:07):
And it's crazy because ifyou vibed with the person.
If you spent more time justliterally connecting with who they
are, they probably would help youtransactionally as well, right?
That's the most ironic part,but instead we go against this.
And it's sad.
It's really sad becausethen, you know, what is it?
(20:28):
The surgeon general last year said theone of the biggest epidemics in the U.
S.
Is loneliness.
You know, right out of D.
C.
So, people are moving up in their career.
Heck, they might even be makingmore money in their career, but
they're more lonely than ever.
Aurora (20:46):
I really like that transactional versus transformational concept.
I've heard it before and it's somethingI realized like that's Always been
a huge problem of myself and likemarketing myself because I'm like truly
allergic to transactional interactions.
And so like, even people at where Iknow, like they might have something to
(21:06):
offer and they might be glad to offer.
I'm like, Unlikely to ask unlessI've been able to like, it's just,
Jeff (21:14):
you can feel it, you can feel, I think it was Shia LaBeouf that was
talking about this, I think at, in Oxfordand he was just like, you know, there
are people that ask for selfies, right?
And you can feel when they're,Asking questions to get to the
selfie and you can feel whenthey're just hanging out with you.
And then at the end, they're like,Hey, do you mind if we take a photo?
(21:34):
And you, and that's something that'sreally worth challenging, right?
Like, again, this is all play.
So we're all experimenting.
How do we connect with one another?
How do we addressloneliness ourselves, right?
When we're walkingaround, Talk about play.
What am I doing to, in order tocreate Psychologically safe space,
(21:54):
so that not only my friends feela certain level of safety and
connection, but maybe even strangers.
I go to conferences all the time.
I see people super lonely all the time.
I go straight up to that person.
Or my friend oh, what is his name now?
I just lost his Lost it.
But he does somethingcalled the croissant.
The bagel is when everyoneis in a circle, right?
(22:17):
They're in a circle.
There's no place for anyone to join.
But if you open a croissant, all ofa sudden another person can join.
Subtle things like that start to build.
A certain level of connection.
Yeah.
Aurora (22:31):
So I think I'm going to open up soon for discussion of people
want to unmute, but I'm wonderingif you guys have any final thoughts
in the chat to share, like in termsof on the podcast part or like final
thoughts for kind of how we use play toconnect and break out of those boxes.
Jeff (22:51):
Well, I'll comment on comment, right?
She was like, porn addictionfeeds on this inner cancer.
I'm certain of it.
Absolutely.
Absolutely right now.
And this is just myperspective on this, right?
But there, it seems to be thismassive divide between men and women.
And I'm mostly talking aboutlike straight dudes, right?
You know, where I see a lot of myfriends that identify as women.
(23:16):
doing a lot of their, they'reconsistently going to therapy.
They're doing much deeper therapy.
They're doing somatic therapy.
They're doing all these things to improvein like, get connected to who they are.
Right.
And then the reaction from, Alot, not all straight men, right?
But a lot of straight men is instead ofbeing like, Hey, you know, being that now
(23:40):
I'm not like the breadwinner and that,I can't just use my money to be like,
this is why you should be with me becausewomen really don't need men anymore.
At least, you know, in that way.
Right?
And you actually have to show up with acertain level of emotional intelligence.
You would think that most menwould be like, well, then I'll
go start going to therapy.
I'll start improving in all these ways.
Yeah.
No, instead they're going
(24:02):
Joe Rogan.
They're
doing Andrew Tate.
They're going far left and gettingangry at women, which is like madness.
Right.
And it's to the point that because they'relacking such connection, they use porn.
As a way to connect rightas a way to find some level.
(24:23):
And obviously it's neversatisfactory, but like, it's
the easy thing to run to, right?
It's transactional and like, it getsme for a little bit, but, it doesn't
address the loneliness of men.
And when you see the amount of violence,most violence is committed by men, right?
It's because they're in this bubbleof Rogan and video games and porn and
(24:46):
all this stuff that keeps them evenmore and more isolated and then they
tell this story, you know, this incelstory that women are rejecting men.
And that story is dangerous.
It's dangerous for women.
It's also dangerous for men.
And this is where I kind of tiethis back to the patriarchy.
The patriarchy doesn't benefit any of us.
(25:07):
Like you would think thatit would benefit men, right?
It benefits some men, but a majorityof men are not succeeding in this.
They're not enjoying it.
And they don't like it asmuch as many women don't.
And I think that's the part that I wantto be communicating more is there's a lot
of men that want to be allies to women.
(25:28):
They don't know how to be.
And if we could figure out that.
We could then help to start to dismantleit together because we can't do it alone.
Aurora (25:39):
Yes.
And um, let's see ,we have on the otherhand, how does remote companion mitigate
loneliness, even if two people video chat.
And just to speak to that a little bit.
I feel like it's kind of likethis mixed bag having these
online communication, right?
Cause you can connect withpeople across the world, which is
(25:59):
amazing, but it doesn't necessarilyreplace in person connection.
So it can be kind of a mixed bag.
I would say.
I want to make sure that we have achance for Jeff to wrap thoughts.
One thing I was going to share, ifyou guys want to continue some more
conversation, I do have the MightyNetworks community, and I would love if
you guys share your thoughts, questions.
(26:20):
Just asked a question inthere about dealing with.
The shit show that isour universe right now.
So if people have thoughtson that, I'd love to hear it.
But I want to go ahead and let Jeff, Iknow you were going to respond to that
and then maybe we can final thoughts.
Jeff (26:36):
Yeah.
So responding partly to what evenwrote in here are talking about,
you know, kids that sometimes areconsidered bad listeners or lazy
or like these stories about whensomeone as a kid is neurodivergent,
but that is not celebrated.
That's not recognized at all.
Right.
And I think of, you know, talk abouta way in which we could dismantle
(26:59):
patriarchy is to begin to celebrateneuro divergency again, right.
To begin to.
When you see it, and you see peopletrying to correct it, or trying to
force someone to be a certain way,be like, Actually, there's something
different about that person and weactually should be open to that.
(27:21):
You know, there's this really, probablymy favorite Ted talk of all time.
One of the first ones everwas done by Sir Ken Robinson.
And he talked about how there was akid that couldn't sit still in class.
So the school said you, this is likeback in like the sixties was like,
you need to take this kid to a mentalinstitution because they can't sit still.
(27:42):
this girl.
And the parents were so shocked and theytook them, took her to a psychiatrist.
And they're like, what'swrong with our daughter?
And the psychiatrist was like, well, let'sjust step out of the room for a second.
Then I'll talk to you about it.
And before he left, heturned on the radio.
He turned on, you know, achannel that was playing music.
(28:05):
And when they stepped outside, the parentswere like, what's wrong with my daughter?
And he's like, nothing.
She's just a dancer.
Like, that's what she is.
She needs to move.
Like, that is how she expresses herself.
And then that little girl went on tobe the creator and founder of Cats,
(28:26):
the longest running play of all time.
And to think about All of theseneurodivergent kids, as well as
neurodivergent adults that havebeen squandered or told that they're
not supposed to be who they are.
And recently when I was at thatneurodivergent workshop, there was
an attendee that shared how she wassitting or she was in a grocery and
(28:48):
and a kid near her was that she didn'tknow her and her pair of parents.
And the kid was like eating something andlike dancing around while it was eating.
And the parent was like,you need to calm down.
We've talked about this.
You can't be moving aroundwhile you're eating.
You're going to dispel blah, blah, blah.
And she turned to her, she turnedto this mother and she goes,
Oh, that's how he, that's how heexpresses his joy through food.
(29:12):
That's how he has to, she's like,I had to do that when I was a kid.
I still do that now.
Like there's a movement that I actuallyhave to do in order to feel more human.
And that mother started to cry.
Because she did not knowup until that point.
She did not know that she wassquandering who her kid was.
(29:33):
So, the more we can actually, again,celebrate the weirdness, celebrate the
difference, celebrate the uniqueness.
others, that also will help todismantle patriarchy tremendously and
celebrate the weirdness in ourselves.
Aurora (29:53):
Awesome.
So, looking at the time, do you haveany final thoughts that you would like
to share with the embracing community?
Jeff (30:02):
Yeah, I guess I'll share this.
I kind of like this.
So, a lot of people are like, Oh,well, you know, we're never going
to dismantle it in our lifetime.
You're never going to stop capitalism.
You know, it's a, fast moving train.
That's just impossible to stop.
Right.
And that's just like thestory that's told everybody.
But when you think of it in the culturalperpetuity way where you're like, Okay.
(30:25):
I call it the cathedral effect,you know, you're building, you're
helping to build the cathedral.
Maybe I can figure out a differentterm, but like you're helping
to build a cathedral and you'renot going to see the end.
You're not going to see it completed.
Are you okay with that?
Like when you think whenyou see it that way, right?
You know, there's the there I was,ha I knew recently was speaking
(30:48):
in New Bedford, Massachusetts andI was walking around the town.
It's very like cobblestone,you know, really old.
And I passed by this plaque andit was like, it was for the 54th.
And the 54th was thefirst black civil war.
Troop that joined the armyduring the civil war, right?
(31:11):
And they were all volunteersthat used to be slayed.
And when they joined,they got slaughtered.
Like they would, they were destroyed.
Now one could have looked at the54th and been like, wow, what
a waste of a bunch of lives.
That was really disappointing.
But anyway.
(31:33):
If you think of it from the cathedraleffect, after died, sacrificing for a
better us or a better world, it inspiredso many other black peoples, especially
for newly freed slaves to join the army.
And it's swayed the entire war.
That one moment sways the whole warbecause of this group of people that never
(31:57):
knew the impact that they would ever have.
So that's what I kind of put out to you.
Is you don't know whatimpact you're going to have.
You know, you, you maynot see the end of this.
You may not, you know, win the dayor whatever it is, but whatever you
can do in your small but powerful wayto begin to dismantle patriarchy by
(32:20):
challenge the status quo, by embracingyour weird, by just simply playing.
It will matter.
It just will.
And when you carry it like that,then you realize you, We'll have a
massive ripple effect on all of yourdescendants and all these people
that really want a better world.
Aurora (32:41):
Awesome.
Love it.
Well, thank you so muchfor joining us, Jeff.
It's always a pleasure to have youand get into the deep conversations.
Jeff (32:51):
Thanks so much for having me.
This was awesome.
Aurora (32:53):
Yeah, no, thank you so much.
And I'll be sharing the partof this on the podcast shortly.
And the discussion partwill be shared privately.
So I'll share that link with you as well.
Jeff (33:05):
Okay, great.
Thanks everyone.
Appreciate you.
Aurora (33:08):
Awesome.
Thank you!
Looking for ways toembrace your own intensity.
Join our embracing intensitycommunity@embracingintensity.com where
(33:33):
you'll meet a growing group of like-mindedpeople who get what it's like to be gifted
and intense and are committed to creatinga supportive community as well as access
to our courses and tools to help youuse your fire without getting burned.
There's also a pay what you canoption through our Patreon where
you can increase your pledgeto help sustain the podcast or.
(33:55):
Or join us at a rate thatbetter fits your needs.
You can also sign up for my freeHarnessing the Power of Your
Intensity, a self regulationworkbook for gifted, creative, and
twice exceptional adults and teens.
All links can be found in the shownotes or on EmbracingIntensity.
com.
The patriarchy doesn't benefit any of us.
(00:02):
Like you would think thatit would benefit men, right?
It benefits some men, but a majorityof men are not succeeding in this.
They're not enjoying it.
And they don't like it asmuch as many women don't.
And I think that's the part that I wantto be communicating more is there's a lot
of men that want to be allies to women.
They don't know how to be.
(00:23):
And if we could figure out that.
We could then help to start to dismantleit together because we can't do it alone.
Aurora (00:36):
Welcome to the Embracing Intensity podcast.
I'll be sharing interviews and tips forgifted, creative, twice exceptional,
and outside the box thinkers whouse their fire in a positive way.
My name is Aurora Remember Holtzman.
After years of feeling too much, Ifinally realized that intensity is
the source of my greatest power.
(00:57):
Now, instead of beating myself up aboutnot measuring up to my own self imposed
standards, I'm on a mission to help peopleembrace their own intensity and befriend
their brains so they can share theirgifts with the world through the Embracing
Intensity community, coaching, educationalassessment, and other tools to help you
use your fire without getting burned.
(01:18):
You can join us at embracingintensity.
com.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hello!
Today I get to share part ofour conversation on dismantling
(01:41):
patriarchy through play with JeffHarry of rediscover your play.
You can access the full video discussionin the guest call library or all access
membership where you can find my selfregulation course, and neurodivergent
planner and journal tools as well.
Including my new ND relationshipjournal with great prompts for
(02:02):
exploring how to support our partnersneurodivergent needs together.
Something I really appreciate about Jeffis that his work dispels, the myth that
you have to choose between depth and play.
In fact, play helps accessdeeper conversations that would
be harder to have without it.
It's one of the reasons I alwaysinclude at least one play themed
talk in my speakers every year.
(02:24):
There's a lot more to diveinto around these topics.
And if you'd like to continue theconversation, join us in the free
embracing intensity community where I'mworking on encouraging more discussion.
Find us at community dot,embracing intensity.com.
Enjoy.
Welcome everyone.
So I'm super thrilled tohave Jeff come join us again.
(02:48):
Every time we've chatted,it's been fantastic.
And we're going to be talking about um,
Jeff (02:55):
Dismantling patriarchy through play.
Yes.
Among other things.
Aurora (03:00):
Among other things.
So, I met Jeff actually at the worlddomination summit many years ago.
And he'd been on the podcast and hedid another one on playing with your
inner critic, which has to be one of myfavorite topics that we've had so far.
And the last year or so, I've been seeinga lot more posts from him about playing
(03:23):
and the patriarchy and getting kindof deep in that, that nuance of play
and so I just think it's been great.
And I was really excited.
Oh, world domination summit?
So, there's a guy, Chris Guillebeau,he's an author and entrepreneur guy,
and he did it for 10 years in Portland.
The last one was rescheduled dueto the pandemic and I couldn't
(03:44):
make it because of a move.
But they all gathered in Portlandand they had speakers and then they
had these like informal meetups.
So you could just decide to havea meetup one day and meet a bunch
of people around this topic.
It was very cool, but yeah,they don't do it anymore.
I don't know what they're doing now, but.
So I'm going to go ahead and letyou guys introduce yourselves.
(04:05):
So Jeff knows who he's talking to, andthen I'll let Jeff kind of get things
started and we can start the conversation.
Awesome.
Glad to have you.
So we're going to start out withkind of more Q and a type thing
through the chat, and then we'llopen up for more verbal discussion.
So welcome everyone.
I'm going to go ahead and muteeveryone except for Jeff and let
(04:29):
you introduce yourself, Jeff.
Welcome.
Glad to have you!
Jeff (04:32):
Oh, awesome.
Oh, I'm excited about this.
Let's see where this goes because Ihave no idea where it's going to go.
Do this.
So Jeff Harry.
I run an organizationcalled Rediscovery or Play.
The whole goal of it is to make work suckless through play and positive psychology.
But really, really it'sabout healing workplaces.
(04:53):
And I'm only kind of doing it as anexperiment because I have this strong
belief that play heals workplaces.
Like the world, right?
Like it heals communities.
It can heal division.
It can heal political spectrums.
I've seen it done in many ways,and I'm happy to share the
ways in which I have seen it.
(05:15):
But the reason why I tie it to patriarchyyou know, and like, and capitalism is
because like, for all of us, The vibeis it's not working like none of this is
working right like work isn't working Youknow how we live isn't working many of
us like I fly all around the country Sowe got 50 to 60 places a year maybe more.
(05:39):
People don't want to work anymorepeople feel exploited used Taking
advantage of And that's justin the working world, right?
We're not even just talking about likehealthcare and education and all these
things that are supposed to solve problemsand instead cause all these problems.
And it's really interesting.
I love that everyone shared, you know,their various like neurodivergent
(06:02):
perspectives because my friend Maddie andLauren Yee of This Us Now, we're running
a neurodivergent workshop yesterdaythat I was helping to support and film.
And There's so many of us that justdon't fit within the system, right?
That just We've never fit, but now it'sso blatant, especially after the pandemic.
(06:28):
And I love, I think itwas that was sharing.
She's like, I'm creating awhole new curriculum for myself.
The amount of people that I've hearddo that, where they're like, I'm
letting go of all the West certain,you know, perspectives or the Western
teaching methods and going completelyagainst all of this and making
something brand new, just to revoltagainst the fact that none of this.
(06:51):
the current society and how we'rerunning stuff is working is a story
that I've heard so many times.
And I'm trying to think of the, youknow, you see this a ton on TikTok where
now people are almost like revoltingagainst the system in a variety of ways,
whether like coming up with new waysof working, coming up with new ways
(07:13):
of like, you know, surviving, Or justbeing like, I'm now moving to a farm
and who else wants to come with me?
So that's like, that's the contextin which we're walking into where you
have, you know, some people still gointo Olive Garden and watching, the
new local news at night, you know,and totally bought into the system.
(07:33):
But a majority of us that are like, Youknow, I can't do what my parents did.
It's just, it's not sustainable.
It wasn't sustainable then, butnow it's blatantly not sustainable.
And this is where I feel play canstart to dismantle this fragile pale
male, stale patriarchy that we have.
Aurora (07:55):
Awesome.
And, I'm just looking at the chat.
Oh, yes, I'm a bottom up thinker.
And when I learn in that way, it goes wayfaster for me to understand something.
And by then I suddenly go so fast thatother people cannot follow me anymore.
Yeah, I can see that for sure.
So, Circling back, you had shared anarticle when we kind of started this
(08:16):
process and you shared a story that wasrelevant and how it tied to all of this.
Jeff (08:22):
Oh, you're talking about Christmas in the trenches.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
So for any of y'all that aren'tfamiliar with the story, it's one of
my favorite stories about play is playwas able to stop a war for like a day.
And it happened in World War One.
And it was probably in within thefirst three months of World War One.
(08:45):
There was this like battleground thathad just been at a stalemate for like
three months and it was the battle wasbetween Germans, Irish and the English.
The Irish and English against the Germans.
And most of the soldiers were like 18, 19.
And if you, you know, if you everdid any like historical analysis
of World War One, a lot of peopledidn't even know why they started it.
(09:06):
Like, it was very confusing for thefirst one, you know, so especially
for the soldiers, they didn'treally know why they were there.
And if you can imagine being 18 or 19years old, like, stuck in this, deep
mud in the trenches I don't even knowwhere exactly they were yeah, like,
in no man's land, and On ChristmasEve they're just sitting there, it's
(09:30):
nighttime, and a German soldier actuallystarted singing Silent Night in German.
And then apparently this Irishbagpiper, or Irish guy, you know,
started playing some instrument that,like, came in unison with Silent
Night and then a group of Englishmenstarted singing Silent Night in English
(09:54):
over the, over No Man's Land, right?
Which was like, oh my goodness,like, okay, this is kind of
random and weird, but also thisis how much we want connection.
And then that German soldier came out witha white flag and came into No Man's Land.
And then so did someone from theEnglish and someone from Ireland.
They all met.
(10:15):
I think it was not Ireland,I believe it was Scottish.
But they all met in the middle and theystarted, like, exchanging chocolate
and, like, cigars and things like that.
And it caused more people to come out andhang out, and that was the opportunity for
them to actually remove a lot of You know,their fallen comrades whose bodies were
(10:37):
just like strewn across this battlefield.
And then after they did that and they werehanging out, someone brought a soccer ball
and they played soccer on the field wherethey had been shooting at one another.
And the craziest part about this isthis happened all across the line.
So we're talking aboutlike hundreds of miles.
(10:57):
And sometimes it didn't work out well.
Some people came out with the whiteflag came out and they just got shot.
But the, like, the willingness to wantto connect and want to play and want
to just feel human again was so greatthat people were willing to risk their
lives in order to feel human, right?
(11:19):
And the next day they all went back, youknow, and they had also exchanged pictures
and cards and all this other stuff,so that when their generals were like,
alright, let's begin the battle again,Most of them didn't want to do it, so
they had to pull everyone off the line.
And then since then all militaryfights on those nostalgic holidays,
(11:41):
like Christmas and Christmas Eve,because they know that they do not want
to build humanity with one another.
And I found that to just to be such apowerful story because like, even at that
point where you're literally shooting atpeople, you know, Slay can intervene and
create like humanity where you would neverthink humanity should exist, which is,
(12:03):
you know, the battlefield of a world war.
and one other thing I just want to add,so I'm randomly visiting England last
year because I want to see Liverpool.
That's my team, you know,I love soccer, right?
And I'm in Liverpooland I'm about to leave.
And I was like, let me justswing by this bombed out church.
Like everyone calls itthe bombed out church.
(12:25):
And when I went there.
You know, it's clearly a bombedout church from World War Two.
But then all of a sudden I sawthis statue from that battle
from Christmas in the trenches.
And it's called Christmas inthe trenches because it's a song
that's sung by this America.
I mean, is it American?
He might be American, but yeah.
Sung by this, this singertelling this story.
(12:48):
And when this singer used to play,he would play all over Europe.
And I believe he might'veeven been playing in.
in Germany when he was playing thissong a lot of people don't believe it.
A lot of people think it's a myth andhe was playing one day and there was
these old group of guys that would comein at the end just to listen to the
song and then they would just leave.
(13:10):
And the last night he was playing, afterhe finished the song, he chased them down.
He's like, who are you?
You know?
And they were like, we
were there.
Like people don't believeit, but we were there.
So like the power of that, thefact that I saw that statue at
Liverpool, I was like, this is
meant to be,
oh my Godness.
So I love it.
(13:31):
This is also why I love Liverpool so much.
You never walk alone.
Aurora (13:37):
And that, that kind of brings to mind just how, sometimes when we're
removed from a current situation,it enables us to kind of bring in
that spirit of play a little bit.
And I think that's, you know, withthe pandemic, I think that kind of
shook us out of our regular box.
And I think, trying to re assimilate andmake things go back as usual or late.
(13:59):
The same when we know it's not
talking about kind of getting backinto like, normal, not necessarily
normal, but like functioning in theworld that we have to function in.
So like, when you have those experiencesthat kind of fundamentally shift how you
perceive the world or how things , aremoving, but then you have to like, Go back
(14:21):
into the system that you, it doesn't fit.
And I know this is kind of your world interms of your training and everything that
you do, like, what are some things thatyou found have been helpful in continuing
to hold onto that that spirit of play whenyou're having to deal with the real world?
Jeff (14:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I'll answer it ina story format, right?
So.
I found something almost asgood as World Domination Summit.
I think it's dope.
It's out of Canada.
It happens in September.
And it's called Camp Reset.
And it's a bunch of play people.
It's just people that are playing,and they go to this, area four
(15:03):
hours out of Toronto for likethree, four days, just all adults.
And there are only threerules to the whole camp.
And mind you, they're at likea children's camp, right?
So there's like, you know, swimmingand, you know, water slides and
all, like all the things thatyou'd usually see at a camp.
(15:23):
So the three rules are no worktalk, no real names, no phones.
So I've been going for two years.
I have at least six or seven friends thatI have no idea what their real name is.
Even now, like I just don't evenknow, I don't know what they do.
And it's great because like the, thisidea of dropping ego, this idea of like
(15:47):
being present, like not on your phone.
And this idea that you're not builtaround your work or you're not built
around your name is really empoweringto actually connect with another person.
It's also.
Really scary because you go back towhen you're 13 or 12 because you're
like, what am I going to talk about?
(16:07):
Like, I don't have anything totalk about because usually I'm
like, what do you do for a living?
How's the weather?
Blah, blah, you know, allthe boring questions, right?
So we actually talk about this becauseon the last day we're like, okay,
Everyone gets their phones back.
And there's something that's reallyactually interesting that they do
is like, or what we did is a lot ofpeople would run around during camp and
(16:29):
pretend to take photos with their hands.
Like they were just pretending thatthey, and then when someone finally
was like, Hey, I have my phone back.
Do you want to take a photo?
Everyone's like, No,you don't get the point.
Like, like we want tobe present right now.
So having to then go back into likethis craziness of Toronto or New
(16:49):
York or wherever else people weregoing back to, it's like jarring.
It's, you know, it's jarring anytimeyou come back from any retreat, right?
So my recommendation or what I tookaway from that camp was you got to
pick the things that you feel likelike resonate and would vibe, right?
(17:11):
So for me, I don't askpeople what they do.
Like that was one of my takeaways.
I don't care.
Like that's not who you are, you know,just because he's a software engineer
doesn't mean now that I'm going to justask him a software engineer question.
Maybe he doesn't want to talk about that.
Maybe that's not like relevant, right?
You know, I asked nowpeople a different question.
I asked them like, what's your mischief?
(17:34):
I don't know what that means.
They don't either.
But then all of a sudden it creates anopportunity for people to be like, well,
tell, let me tell you what my mischief is.
Right.
Right.
So that's just one way, right?
Like figuring out other ways in whichlike, okay, I want to be more present.
Okay, I'm not going tobring my phone somewhere.
Oh my gosh, like that's the scariestthing having ghost phone where you're
(17:56):
not touching it and all the time, like,you know, but challenging the status quo.
I mean, she's doing it right nowwith like what she's learning, right?
She's doing shamanic and all theseother like Things that totally
challenge, totally go againsteverything that we've been told to do.
You know, many of my friends are doingvery similar things, where they're tapping
(18:18):
back into, like they're divine feminine.
What's interesting about play, play ismuch more feminine than it is masculine.
It's collaborative, it's connected, it'sintuit, you're following your intuition,
you know, it's all these different things.
So like, even I am like, doing moreprograms or connecting with people in
(18:39):
a way that is much more following myfeminine in order to learn that balance.
Aurora (18:47):
I was just looking at the chat here.
So we got yeah, I usually alwaysskip small talk and just start
talking about what I'm thinkingabout when I meet new people.
Yep.
Also, instead of askingpeople, how are you?
I tend to ask, how are you holdingup to show that I'm interested
in the real answer and not justsocially expected response.
Yep.
Totally.
This has been a longstanding thing for me.
People have been thrown off by it.
(19:08):
One of the reasons I didn'tlove living in the DC area.
Is very much what I call aresume and business card town.
Yeah.
I have all kinds of thingsthat could fit on a resume, but
it's not who I am as a person.
I have several friends whoI don't know what they do.
We just vibe.
Yeah, totally.
Jeff (19:26):
Right.
It's the vibe.
And let me just respond to DC.
It's DC, dude.
DC is such a transactional city, right?
And my favorite play, you know,thought leader Kevin Carroll would
always ask, do you want to havea transactional conversation or a
transformational conversation, right?
(19:47):
And you can feel that.
You can feel it in D.
C., you can feel it in NewYork, you feel it in L.
A., where people are like, well, whatmovie you've been on or what studio?
Like, How do I get something from you?
And DC is one of the most transactionalones because they're like, which
congressman do you work for?
You don't work for a congressman.
I don't really feel like talking toyou anymore because you can't help me.
Right.
(20:07):
And it's crazy because ifyou vibed with the person.
If you spent more time justliterally connecting with who they
are, they probably would help youtransactionally as well, right?
That's the most ironic part,but instead we go against this.
And it's sad.
It's really sad becausethen, you know, what is it?
(20:28):
The surgeon general last year said theone of the biggest epidemics in the U.
S.
Is loneliness.
You know, right out of D.
C.
So, people are moving up in their career.
Heck, they might even be makingmore money in their career, but
they're more lonely than ever.
Aurora (20:46):
I really like that transactional versus transformational concept.
I've heard it before and it's somethingI realized like that's Always been
a huge problem of myself and likemarketing myself because I'm like truly
allergic to transactional interactions.
And so like, even people at where Iknow, like they might have something to
(21:06):
offer and they might be glad to offer.
I'm like, Unlikely to ask unlessI've been able to like, it's just,
Jeff (21:14):
you can feel it, you can feel, I think it was Shia LaBeouf that was
talking about this, I think at, in Oxfordand he was just like, you know, there
are people that ask for selfies, right?
And you can feel when they're,Asking questions to get to the
selfie and you can feel whenthey're just hanging out with you.
And then at the end, they're like,Hey, do you mind if we take a photo?
(21:34):
And you, and that's something that'sreally worth challenging, right?
Like, again, this is all play.
So we're all experimenting.
How do we connect with one another?
How do we addressloneliness ourselves, right?
When we're walkingaround, Talk about play.
What am I doing to, in order tocreate Psychologically safe space,
(21:54):
so that not only my friends feela certain level of safety and
connection, but maybe even strangers.
I go to conferences all the time.
I see people super lonely all the time.
I go straight up to that person.
Or my friend oh, what is his name now?
I just lost his Lost it.
But he does somethingcalled the croissant.
The bagel is when everyoneis in a circle, right?
(22:17):
They're in a circle.
There's no place for anyone to join.
But if you open a croissant, all ofa sudden another person can join.
Subtle things like that start to build.
A certain level of connection.
Yeah.
Aurora (22:31):
So I think I'm going to open up soon for discussion of people
want to unmute, but I'm wonderingif you guys have any final thoughts
in the chat to share, like in termsof on the podcast part or like final
thoughts for kind of how we use play toconnect and break out of those boxes.
Jeff (22:51):
Well, I'll comment on comment, right?
She was like, porn addictionfeeds on this inner cancer.
I'm certain of it.
Absolutely.
Absolutely right now.
And this is just myperspective on this, right?
But there, it seems to be thismassive divide between men and women.
And I'm mostly talking aboutlike straight dudes, right?
You know, where I see a lot of myfriends that identify as women.
(23:16):
doing a lot of their, they'reconsistently going to therapy.
They're doing much deeper therapy.
They're doing somatic therapy.
They're doing all these things to improvein like, get connected to who they are.
Right.
And then the reaction from, Alot, not all straight men, right?
But a lot of straight men is instead ofbeing like, Hey, you know, being that now
(23:40):
I'm not like the breadwinner and that,I can't just use my money to be like,
this is why you should be with me becausewomen really don't need men anymore.
At least, you know, in that way.
Right?
And you actually have to show up with acertain level of emotional intelligence.
You would think that most menwould be like, well, then I'll
go start going to therapy.
I'll start improving in all these ways.
Yeah.
No, instead they're going
(24:02):
Joe Rogan.
They're
doing Andrew Tate.
They're going far left and gettingangry at women, which is like madness.
Right.
And it's to the point that because they'relacking such connection, they use porn.
As a way to connect rightas a way to find some level.
(24:23):
And obviously it's neversatisfactory, but like, it's
the easy thing to run to, right?
It's transactional and like, it getsme for a little bit, but, it doesn't
address the loneliness of men.
And when you see the amount of violence,most violence is committed by men, right?
It's because they're in this bubbleof Rogan and video games and porn and
(24:46):
all this stuff that keeps them evenmore and more isolated and then they
tell this story, you know, this incelstory that women are rejecting men.
And that story is dangerous.
It's dangerous for women.
It's also dangerous for men.
And this is where I kind of tiethis back to the patriarchy.
The patriarchy doesn't benefit any of us.
(25:07):
Like you would think thatit would benefit men, right?
It benefits some men, but a majorityof men are not succeeding in this.
They're not enjoying it.
And they don't like it asmuch as many women don't.
And I think that's the part that I wantto be communicating more is there's a lot
of men that want to be allies to women.
(25:28):
They don't know how to be.
And if we could figure out that.
We could then help to start to dismantleit together because we can't do it alone.
Aurora (25:39):
Yes.
And um, let's see ,we have on the otherhand, how does remote companion mitigate
loneliness, even if two people video chat.
And just to speak to that a little bit.
I feel like it's kind of likethis mixed bag having these
online communication, right?
Cause you can connect withpeople across the world, which is
(25:59):
amazing, but it doesn't necessarilyreplace in person connection.
So it can be kind of a mixed bag.
I would say.
I want to make sure that we have achance for Jeff to wrap thoughts.
One thing I was going to share, ifyou guys want to continue some more
conversation, I do have the MightyNetworks community, and I would love if
you guys share your thoughts, questions.
(26:20):
Just asked a question inthere about dealing with.
The shit show that isour universe right now.
So if people have thoughtson that, I'd love to hear it.
But I want to go ahead and let Jeff, Iknow you were going to respond to that
and then maybe we can final thoughts.
Jeff (26:36):
Yeah.
So responding partly to what evenwrote in here are talking about,
you know, kids that sometimes areconsidered bad listeners or lazy
or like these stories about whensomeone as a kid is neurodivergent,
but that is not celebrated.
That's not recognized at all.
Right.
And I think of, you know, talk abouta way in which we could dismantle
(26:59):
patriarchy is to begin to celebrateneuro divergency again, right.
To begin to.
When you see it, and you see peopletrying to correct it, or trying to
force someone to be a certain way,be like, Actually, there's something
different about that person and weactually should be open to that.
(27:21):
You know, there's this really, probablymy favorite Ted talk of all time.
One of the first ones everwas done by Sir Ken Robinson.
And he talked about how there was akid that couldn't sit still in class.
So the school said you, this is likeback in like the sixties was like,
you need to take this kid to a mentalinstitution because they can't sit still.
(27:42):
this girl.
And the parents were so shocked and theytook them, took her to a psychiatrist.
And they're like, what'swrong with our daughter?
And the psychiatrist was like, well, let'sjust step out of the room for a second.
Then I'll talk to you about it.
And before he left, heturned on the radio.
He turned on, you know, achannel that was playing music.
(28:05):
And when they stepped outside, the parentswere like, what's wrong with my daughter?
And he's like, nothing.
She's just a dancer.
Like, that's what she is.
She needs to move.
Like, that is how she expresses herself.
And then that little girl went on tobe the creator and founder of Cats,
(28:26):
the longest running play of all time.
And to think about All of theseneurodivergent kids, as well as
neurodivergent adults that havebeen squandered or told that they're
not supposed to be who they are.
And recently when I was at thatneurodivergent workshop, there was
an attendee that shared how she wassitting or she was in a grocery and
(28:48):
and a kid near her was that she didn'tknow her and her pair of parents.
And the kid was like eating something andlike dancing around while it was eating.
And the parent was like,you need to calm down.
We've talked about this.
You can't be moving aroundwhile you're eating.
You're going to dispel blah, blah, blah.
And she turned to her, she turnedto this mother and she goes,
Oh, that's how he, that's how heexpresses his joy through food.
(29:12):
That's how he has to, she's like,I had to do that when I was a kid.
I still do that now.
Like there's a movement that I actuallyhave to do in order to feel more human.
And that mother started to cry.
Because she did not knowup until that point.
She did not know that she wassquandering who her kid was.
(29:33):
So, the more we can actually, again,celebrate the weirdness, celebrate the
difference, celebrate the uniqueness.
others, that also will help todismantle patriarchy tremendously and
celebrate the weirdness in ourselves.
Aurora (29:53):
Awesome.
So, looking at the time, do you haveany final thoughts that you would like
to share with the embracing community?
Jeff (30:02):
Yeah, I guess I'll share this.
I kind of like this.
So, a lot of people are like, Oh,well, you know, we're never going
to dismantle it in our lifetime.
You're never going to stop capitalism.
You know, it's a, fast moving train.
That's just impossible to stop.
Right.
And that's just like thestory that's told everybody.
But when you think of it in the culturalperpetuity way where you're like, Okay.
(30:25):
I call it the cathedral effect,you know, you're building, you're
helping to build the cathedral.
Maybe I can figure out a differentterm, but like you're helping
to build a cathedral and you'renot going to see the end.
You're not going to see it completed.
Are you okay with that?
Like when you think whenyou see it that way, right?
You know, there's the there I was,ha I knew recently was speaking
(30:48):
in New Bedford, Massachusetts andI was walking around the town.
It's very like cobblestone,you know, really old.
And I passed by this plaque andit was like, it was for the 54th.
And the 54th was thefirst black civil war.
Troop that joined the armyduring the civil war, right?
(31:11):
And they were all volunteersthat used to be slayed.
And when they joined,they got slaughtered.
Like they would, they were destroyed.
Now one could have looked at the54th and been like, wow, what
a waste of a bunch of lives.
That was really disappointing.
But anyway.
(31:33):
If you think of it from the cathedraleffect, after died, sacrificing for a
better us or a better world, it inspiredso many other black peoples, especially
for newly freed slaves to join the army.
And it's swayed the entire war.
That one moment sways the whole warbecause of this group of people that never
(31:57):
knew the impact that they would ever have.
So that's what I kind of put out to you.
Is you don't know whatimpact you're going to have.
You know, you, you maynot see the end of this.
You may not, you know, win the dayor whatever it is, but whatever you
can do in your small but powerful wayto begin to dismantle patriarchy by
(32:20):
challenge the status quo, by embracingyour weird, by just simply playing.
It will matter.
It just will.
And when you carry it like that,then you realize you, We'll have a
massive ripple effect on all of yourdescendants and all these people
that really want a better world.
Aurora (32:41):
Awesome.
Love it.
Well, thank you so muchfor joining us, Jeff.
It's always a pleasure to have youand get into the deep conversations.
Jeff (32:51):
Thanks so much for having me.
This was awesome.
Aurora (32:53):
Yeah, no, thank you so much.
And I'll be sharing the partof this on the podcast shortly.
And the discussion partwill be shared privately.
So I'll share that link with you as well.
Jeff (33:05):
Okay, great.
Thanks everyone.
Appreciate you.
Aurora (33:08):
Awesome.
Thank you!
Looking for ways toembrace your own intensity.
Join our embracing intensitycommunity@embracingintensity.com where
(33:33):
you'll meet a growing group of like-mindedpeople who get what it's like to be gifted
and intense and are committed to creatinga supportive community as well as access
to our courses and tools to help youuse your fire without getting burned.
There's also a pay what you canoption through our Patreon where
you can increase your pledgeto help sustain the podcast or.
(33:55):
Or join us at a rate thatbetter fits your needs.
You can also sign up for my freeHarnessing the Power of Your
Intensity, a self regulationworkbook for gifted, creative, and
twice exceptional adults and teens.
All links can be found in the shownotes or on EmbracingIntensity.
com.
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