April 16, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of "Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice," Patricia and Nicole recount their recent trip to New York City, where they celebrated Patricia's birthday by seeing a couple musicals and spending quality time with old friends. They also discuss the importance of embracing and understanding one’s own emotions, despite the discomfort or societal pressures to suppress them. The hosts wrap up by sharing personal reflections on what has been fulfilling for them lately and encourage listeners to support the podcast through ratings, reviews, sharing, and Patreon.
There is also a special announcement about the mysterious top tier of Patreon!
Mentioned on the show:
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Bookshop Affiliate Storefront (links below are affiliate)
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Become a patron! Patreon.com/eedapod
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Subscribe to the ongoing Enthusiastic Encouragement & Dubious Advice Newsletter
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EEDA Newsletter Vol 6, Res 8: Credible Sources, Sitting with Emotions, and Organizing 101
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Issues of the EEDA Newsletter with resources for naming your feelings:
Find the full show notes and official transcript on our website: eedapod.com
Follow the show on Instagram & find us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, & Spotify
Sound editing by Jen Zink
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Intro Music]
(00:15):
Hey there, pop Rocks.
Welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice, the podcast for
folks who would rather curl intothe fetal position than Lean In.
I'm your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle.
And I have a whole lot of feelings abouteverything that is going on right now.
I'm Nicole Elzie-Tuttle.
We're recording the showon April 10th, 2025.
(00:36):
So much has happenedsince we last chatted.
Yeah, we took an episode off.
We took an episode off because we, well,at least when we were supposed to be
recording, we were in New York City.
Yeah, we were celebrating Patricia-ween?
A Patricia-ween.
I actually, mmm...
(00:57):
no?
Maybe.
Maybe.
Patricia-Mas?
Patricia-Mas.
Patriciakuh?
Anyway, we were celebrating mybirthday in New York and we got
to see some friends of mine.
We got to see Audra McDonald in Gypsy.
She was phenomenal.
(01:20):
Yeah, you lost it in the first 10 seconds.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I'm pretty sure I blacked out for aboutfour bars during one of her big songs.
I just.
I don't know.
Time traveled.
I don't know.
Yeah.
We saw Redwood with Idina Menzel.
We did.
We did.
That was a show.
Uh huh.
Yep.
And we had some amazing bagel sandwiches.
(01:43):
Oh yeah.
Shout out to Murray's Bagels.
Oh yeah.
My bagel sandwich had alatke in the bagel sandwich.
Phenomenal.
On top of like egg and
sausage and bacon and cheese.
Yeah.
Like it was very
not kosher.
Not kosher.
Uh, and it was very delicious.
And we like took the subwayaround a bunch of places.
(02:05):
Oh yeah.
No, subway was pretty easy 'cause westayed near Grand Central Station.
We did.
We stayed at the Library Hotel,which is a hotel where every
room is a Dewey Decimal number.
Yes.
We stayed in the
African Religions room.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so each room also had like alittle bit of art in there, but it
(02:27):
had about 40 to 50 curated bookson that subject of that room.
So we were also on the religions floor.
Yes.
Now the Library Hotel is also abouta block away from the New York Public
Library's Central Library branch.
Yeah.
(02:47):
From the uh, 5th Avenue,42nd Street branch.
The one with the two lions in front.
So we went down there, wewent to the library store.
And we got to meet some celebrities.
Oh, we did.
That's right.
Which were Winnie the Pooh and Friends,the original Plushies that A.A. Milne
based his stories off of, uh, youknow, they tour around to different
(03:10):
museums and galleries and stuff, andthey were on display at the library.
Well, it was everybody except little Roo.
Except Roo, yeah.
Yeah.
little Roo uh, got lost inapple orchard about a hundred
years ago and never came back.
That's both horrifying and soundskind of like a Roo thing to do.
Yeah.
(03:31):
Also Piglet, hecka small.
Yeah.
That's why piglet's so small.
Oh my gosh.
He's just a lil guy.
He's just a little guy.
Every time I think abouthim I get tears in my eyes.
He's so small.
And also, yeah, Eeyore does look sad.
Yeah.
Honestly, I got tears in my eyesjust seeing them there, 'cause I
didn't expect to see them there.
Yeah.
We like, we're lookingat some other stuff.
(03:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was, you know, I'm gettingall for verklempt now, but
that was, you know, New York.
I'm posting pictures onmy Instagram, finally.
I post the pictures afterwe already get home.
Yeah.
And also I recently went out of mycomfort zone and I went to a women
(04:15):
and femmes of color entrepreneursand creatives networking event.
And so like I've made some connectionsand I just wanna pat myself on my back
for getting out of my comfort zone.
It is something like, I bought theticket a few weeks ago and then when
I woke up on Sunday, I was like,ugh, I don't wanna do this thing.
(04:37):
But you know what, past me did me a solid
Yeah.
And, uh, hey, to anyone whomet Patricia at that event.
And the other thing is I feel like I'vebeen doing a lot of yapping already.
Yes.
I brought you to a PattiLuPone concert on Saturday.
You did!
It was a show.
(04:58):
She had a cold, but she was,I mean, it's Patti LuPone.
She's so phenomenal that at onepoint she turned to below her nose
and the audience started applauding.
And she turned around and gavelike everyone, like she laughed
and she gave everyone a looklike, what is wrong with you?
(05:20):
But I'm like, just imagine beingso amazing that people applaud
when you're blowing your nose.
Yeah, yeah.
Also, this was in Berkeley and maybethe whole of the Castro district was
Was there
there.
Yeah.
That night.
And the whole premise of the showwas, she called it Songs from A
Hat and she had 35 pieces of papereach with a song in a top hat.
(05:45):
And she would just pick out the songs.
And whatever she would pickout, that's what she would sing.
She would also let some peoplein the audience pick a song.
Yes.
And one person
Out of the hat.
Out of the hat.
Yes.
Not off a list, outta the hat.
And one person picked one andhanded it to her and said.
I hope it's a good one.
(06:05):
And the whole theater, I don't knowhow many people sit in this theater.
It's a massive theater.
Three tiers, orchestra,mezzanine, balcony.
You could hear a pin drop and Patty Luponetook the piece of paper and was like,
what do you think would be a good one?
(06:26):
And everyone just in our seats,absolute silence because we were all
mortified on behalf of this person.
And this person was not answering.
And she's like, oh look, he's getting shy.
No, really, everyone in thistheater wants to know what
you would think is a good one.
(06:47):
Poor man.
I almost died of secondhand embarrassment.
I'm like, why would yousay that to Patty Lupone?
But of course, finally someoneshouted out The Ladies Who
Lunch and that's what it was.
And brilliant, wonderful.
Ended with a bang.
So.
Yeah, I had a fun time, uh, tryingto figure out if I had seen that
(07:07):
song in a show before or not.
Yeah.
I knew most of the songs, but I waswondering like some of the songs
you recognized and some you didn't.
So.
And some took a few minutes becauseit was totally out of context.
That too.
Oh, hey, we have a Patreon.
We do have a Patreon.
I want you all tosubscribe to our Patreon.
(07:28):
That'd be so wonderful.
We have a great little communityover there with our weekly check-ins.
With our Helpful Helpers.
Our Helpful Helpers, and ourEnthusiastic Encouragers.
Oh, we can't forget ourenthusiastic encouragers, they
encourage so enthusiastically.
And we are going to announce thenew tier during our next show.
(07:56):
I finally, together, we finally figuredout like kind of what we wanna do.
And so just saying it out loud right nowis really gonna get a fire under us to
get it together and we will announce iton our next show, which is in two weeks.
This isn't gonna be like a fireunder us, like in Redwood is it?
(08:16):
Redwood the musical?
Yeah.
Ah, no.
It better not be
Like a sleeping in a tree.
Nope.
Stop.
Nope.
No.
We're gonna, we're just gonnaleave that musical as it's.
Okay.
You wanna tell us about the bookshop?
I do wanna tell you about the bookshop.
As all of you I'm sure are doingyour best to not buy books from
(08:37):
places like Amazon or Target.
May I suggest bookshop and may Isuggest our affiliate shop on bookshop,
which we have linked at eedapod.com,and we have linked in the show notes.
Where we mention, or actually we linkall the books that we have mentioned in
the show as well as books I've mentionedin the Enthusiastic Encouragement and
(08:59):
Dubious Advice newsletter, and you canshop them in our affiliate bookshop
and get the books and then supportus, support independent bookstores.
And book shop now now also doeseBooks, which is really cool.
Oh, that's so good.
Yeah.
[Transition Music]
(09:23):
So today is one of those days when we'regoing to talk about something that we
are each working on in our own ways andwe'll probably always be working on.
I don't think these are things thatcan really like that perfection
is attainable or even desirable.
We're going to talk aboutbeing scared of feelings.
(09:44):
Mostly our own feelings, butsometimes other people's too.
Now we do not have it all figuredout, but we're gonna share with you
what we've got figured out so far.
In the Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice newsletter, volume
six, resources eight, which I willlink in the show notes, I shared a
(10:05):
blog post written by Kamron (Taylor)Melton for Therapy for Black Girls.
And the blog post is titled, Sitting WithYour Emotions, What Your Therapist Means
and How to Do It, and it's very helpful.
We understand how importantthis is academically.
It builds resilience.
(10:26):
Actually naming your emotionscan reduce the intensity of them,
and you can learn about your owntriggers and patterns and needs.
Also, if you continually keep yourfeelings all bottled up, they're
just going to show up in other ways.
Could be outbursts atloved ones or coworkers.
Could be physical illness or chronic pain,or a myriad other really undesirable ways.
(10:52):
Yeah, you don't wanna end up likethat one guy on inside out who
just had like a head full of Anger.
Too late.
Like I said, academically I getit, but I am not always the best
at this practically speaking.
Yeah, same.
In my many years, I have heard and evensaid myself that feelings are scary.
(11:16):
Sometimes it's literally just thatphrase like, feelings are scary.
Or I've had a friend say that they'rescared to write down their feelings,
like in a journal or a letter,because if they write them down, then
they'll be real, and that's scary.
Or maybe it's avoiding having aconversation because they're afraid
(11:38):
they'll cry, or they're afraid the otherperson will cry, and every one of us
is just a haunted house of emotions.
Spooky emotions.
No.
Is is that a, is that a, a floatingsheet or is it just old, uh
(11:59):
old man Withers.
Old man Withers with Joy.
Old, sad-man Withers.
Old, sad-man Withers.
Awe.
He would've gotten away with it too
if it weren't for that Lexapro.
Aw.
I know a big part of this for meis that having big feelings can
(12:24):
be uncomfortable, and frankly, Idon't always wanna deal with that.
I've got a lot of other things I wanna do,so I'm just gonna avoid those feelings.
I will avoid feeling my feelings byintellectualizing them or by keeping busy.
The feelings can't catchme if I keep moving.
(12:47):
Or I will just have a laugh.
Why have feelings when I can have jokes.
Yeah, I know for me, likeintellectualizing my feelings really
allows me to distance myself from them.
In some ways when I'm doing this, Ifeel kind of like some sort of feelings
bird watcher like, ah yes, look,that appears to be some sort of red
(13:10):
cheeked anger that I am experiencing.
And like when I'm doing this, I'mnot present with that feeling.
And like, yes, I'm feeling it,but I'm not like feeling it,
feeling it, if that makes sense.
It's just like.
Yep.
That's, Hmm.
Look at that anger.
Anyways, I've got a workemail to respond to.
(13:31):
Yeah.
As with many things, I amtrying to approach this idea of
scary feelings with curiosity.
We use the word scary and we oftenassociate that word with danger or
something being harmful or being unsafe.
Or a Spice Girl.
(13:51):
You know, I am not going to go onmy rant about the Black one being
called Scary, but just know I can.
Oh, yeah, no, it's good too.
Maybe that'll be in one of our like,
paid,
paid episodes.
Paid episodes on Patreon.
That'll go on EEDAPod Nights.
EEDAPod Rants.
Oh no, EEDAPod Rants.
(14:14):
There are definitely people who are insituations where it would be unsafe for
them to show their feelings, good or bad.
In our household, we do talk a lotabout how toxic masculinity limits the
range of feelings that are acceptablefor men, and this is both good and bad.
(14:35):
Hey fellas, is it gay to be excited?
Uh, according to some, yes.
Oh.
As a Black person, especially a Blackfemme, I am used to having my emotions
policed in the workplace and alsohaving to be very mindful, even if I say
disagree with something, with a smile onmy face, some people will still read it
(14:59):
as anger or aggressiveness or whatever.
I'm just, sorry, I'm just like, yourjoy is so good and, like, I, I have
this picture of you being like, atDisneyland with like a corn dog and
like a coke and like in line for, Idon't know, Space Mountain or something,
(15:22):
and just like having the best, andsomeone's like, ugh, why she so angry?
Yeah.
It's, it's wild.
Racism is wild.
All this to say, we recognize thatthere are situations as well as
social expectations that keep peoplefrom expressing their feelings,
but also like really having them.
(15:45):
Yeah, even acknowledging them.
What we really wanna get at is whenwe are avoiding feelings in a space
that is relatively safe with a lovedone you trust, or writing in a journal
or notebook, or even in therapy.
My previous therapist would give me ALook, because she could physically see
(16:06):
me intellectualizing my feelings inreal time right there in our session.
And it wasn't necessarily a negative look.
I absolutely adored her.
It was just kind of like a, huh?
Like she could physically see
yeah
me up in my head.
Yeah.
And this is where like again,we want you to get curious.
(16:29):
When you say your feelingsare scary, what do you mean?
What are you scared of?
What are you afraid is going to happen?
Yeah, that last one's a good onebecause often what you're say you are
afraid is going to happen is somethingthat's unrealistic or even irrational.
Like saying, if I start crying,I'm afraid I won't stop.
(16:52):
Realistically, at some point you'regoing to get dehydrated or tire
yourself out and go to sleep.
I think a lot about all my grief andsure, I feel like crying more than
I do, and grief doesn't end, but theactual crying, the crying does not last.
24/7.
Yeah.
I mean, unless you're, thatone girl that Nine Days was
(17:13):
singing about, like back in 2000.
You had to look up that thatband was called Nine Days.
Yeah.
I, I had never heard that in my life.
I know.
I know the song.
I know the song.
Yeah.
Y'all go look it up.
It's really catchy,it's stuck in your head.
You mentioned earlier also being scaredof other people's feelings, for example,
(17:34):
like avoiding conversations becausethe other person might cry or be upset.
Yeah, that's a tough one.
People can be bringing a lot of theirown baggage to the table when they
say that one, especially if they grewup in a home where they constantly
had to navigate and tiptoe around thefeelings of emotionally immature adults.
(17:56):
For me, like if I share somethingdifficult with you, I really have to
ground myself in my trust for you.
Trust that while you may havenegative feelings, those won't
turn into negative behavior.
And this, I just wanna acknowledge, canbe a lot harder in professional settings.
(18:19):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
There's also a lot around feeling feelingsthat is passed down through culture.
A really obvious place to see thisis evident in the discomfort that
white people experience both, like,trying to hide their own emotions
(18:39):
or, or trying to not show emotions.
But also when they encounterother people being less restrained
with their feelings in public.
And this is likely partly or less,more than partly due to the export
of British stoicism, which you mayhave also heard of as the stiff
(19:01):
upper lip, through colonization.
And while we don't revere that stoicismas much today or, or we really should
not be revering that kind of stoicism,many white people still have a preference
for restraint in public and they can getreal uncomfortable or funny enough, have
(19:25):
a lot of feelings about it when others,especially non-white people, do not abide
by such cultural norms of restraint.
Ugh.
I have so much to say about this.
First of all, something that wedon't have in the script, but I'm
reminded of listening to this, isabout white women weaponizing tears.
(19:47):
Oh, yeah.
Especially in public or in the workplace.
Yeah.
Well, you have to be as a whiteperson, so restrained all the time.
So if you're having tears like
Someone's gonna pay.
That's, that's a major thing.
Yeah.
And then the other thing is youmentioned not revering stoicism.
Uh, so in my gig where I recommendbooks, I see the thousands of books
(20:13):
that are coming out all the time.
And I am sorry to burst yourbubble, but there's a whole
entire reverence around stoicism.
There are so many books and videosand exalting of stoicism right now.
(20:33):
I'm aware of it because ofthe books, but it's really
attached to alpha male culture.
Which is something that wedon't have in our bubbles.
And so stoicism is a whole thingand it's a little bit scary.
It makes me incredibly sad.
(20:56):
Yeah.
And then the other thing I'm remindedof, finally, is thinking about people
being uncomfortable with big feelings.
I think about the group of Blackwomen who were on the wine train
tour in Napa, and people complainedand got them kicked off the train
(21:16):
because they were laughing too loud.
And having fun.
They're having too much fun.
Yeah, I've definitely, I laugh loudly,I laugh loudly, and I've definitely
gotten scare, stares, scares, staresin public because I'm laughing loudly.
Yeah, you are not being restrainedenough in your emotions.
(21:37):
You're, you feelingsare too big sometimes.
Your joy.
I am sorry.
I am just too funny and I crack myself up.
Gonna connect these dots to one morething as we kind of are connecting
the dots a little bit away fromour central, or I guess maybe
around our, our central idea here.
(21:59):
This particular area really has likea direct connection to tone policing.
Which is criticizing or devaluing the waysomeone is speaking, the way someone is
speaking or saying something instead ofactually addressing what they are saying.
Absolutely.
(22:19):
You know, women are too emotionalto lead or be president.
Were you all able to, uh, hear how loud myeyes just rolled right now, thinking about
all these men out here having mantrums?
Mantrums,
You about fell off the couchwhen I said that the first time.
(22:39):
It's a good word.
It is,
it's a good word.
And like.
Well, and, and all this conversationis also like, in, in a weird way,
is, is having feelings, is feelingyour feelings, anti-white supremacy,
whoa.
Is feeling your feelingsanti-patriarchy, right?
(23:01):
Like,
and just, like, experiencing them,sharing them, and having big feelings
yeah
publicly.
Yeah, well, like we have in our home,like joy is an act of resistance.
And we're not necessarily talking aboutlike cisgender straight people here.
Like trans joy is resistance, Blackjoy is resistance because there's
(23:21):
so many people out there that don'twant these circles and communities
of people to not have that.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm gonna bring it back around tofeelings being scary, and note that
it's worth examining each situationand realizing that sometimes when
(23:43):
we're saying we're like scared of thesefeelings or we're feeling scared, we are
actually safe and it's going to be okay.
And I'm gonna ask here, insteadof feeling afraid, are we just
feeling uncomfortable instead.
Or afraid of discomfort.
Or, well, yeah.
(24:04):
Yeah.
Like are we edging being neardiscomfort And that's what like
is pushing us away from that.
Yeah.
And then, I'm gonna say it,and then you can do it scared.
You can be scared of yourfeelings and still have them.
And do the scary thing.
And you can have that scaryconversation where you cry or the
(24:25):
other person cries 'cause you're,you're not gonna die from crying.
Like,
Maybe you both cry together.
Maybe you cry.
Maybe it's a team.
Yeah.
Team challenge.
It's a, it's a team effort.
It's a, it's a group.
It's a group project.
It's a group project.
Yeah.
If I'm crying, everyoneelse around me is crying.
Yeah, it happens like that sometimes.
It does happen like that sometimes.
(24:46):
It be like that, sometimes.
It do be like that, sometimes.
And I'm gonna say this, the moretime you spend with your feelings,
the less scary they will be.
I'm gonna, I'm gonnatake another step here.
Maybe, maybe you can eventuallybe friends with your feelings.
(25:08):
Nope fake news.
Maybe you can be,
maybe, maybe I at least won't be soterrified of feeling them sometimes.
Maybe.
And what we're, we're not talkingabout like the laughter and stuff here.
Absolutely.
(25:28):
One more thing.
As we mentioned earlier, naming thefeelings like actually naming the thing
can help alleviate some of the intensityand therefore, some of the scariness.
Over the many years of the EnthusiasticEncouragement and Dubious Advice
newsletter, I've shared differenttools to help you name your feelings.
I'm actually going to link each ofthose issues in the show notes so you
(25:52):
have easy access to those resources.
I might just start naming myfeelings after Weird Birds.
That's a Blue Wing Song Sobber.
No, I'm just going to name myfeelings like people names.
Oh, I got a, I got acase of the Billys today.
(26:14):
What's wrong?
Uh, Bruce.
Oh No, Bruce..
I don't know, feelinga bit of Janet today.
Janice.
Ms. Jackson, if you're nasty.
Whoa.
[Transition Music]
(26:38):
Okay, so we've carried on a bit.
Patricia, what do you wanna make surepeople kind of take away from this?
I think, and this is maybe justmy rules for living, uh, and your
mileage may vary, but ask why.
Why am I scared to feel X, Y, Z?
Like, don't maybe question that you areor you are not, but like, why am I scared?
(27:01):
What am I afraid will happen?
And Nicole, what's your takeaway?
My takeaway here is that you needto get outta your comfort zone with
what feelings you allow yourself toexperience, if you have a habit of saying
that you're scared of your feelings.
The more time you spend withthem, the more comfortable you
(27:22):
are going to be feeling them.
All right.
Well,
Yeah, just kind of sitwith those for a minute.
Yeah.
Patricia?
Yes, Nicole.
What's been filling your cup lately?
You know, our trip toNew York was perfect.
(27:46):
Dare I say perfect?
You know, it went off without a hitch.
Everything was on time.
We got to do what we wanted to do.
See what we wanted to see.
There's plenty on our map forus to see next time we go.
But I think what's filling me most is thatthere were a couple friends that maybe I
(28:07):
had lost contact with or just hadn't seenin like 20 years, one of them 25 years,
and I reached out and I was like, hey,my wife and I are gonna be in New York.
Are you up to like hang outand see us and meet my wife?
And both of them werelike, immediately, yes.
(28:29):
You tell me when andwhere and I will be there.
And, I don't know.
That's just really filling my cup rightnow that I, I mean, I also just know
some really great people and I knowI would do that for them too, right.
But just that, you know, decades couldpass and they're still like, yeah.
Where am I meeting you?
What are we doing?
Yeah.
(28:50):
Nicole, what's filling your cup?
This trip really did a lot for me as well.
A big part of it was justspending all the time with you.
I know for the listeners we're weirdand gross to a lot of people, but
we legitimately can spend 24 hoursa day with each other for weeks on
end and just have pure joy in it.
But also, this trip was one that wekind of made the decision to do on a
(29:15):
whim like a couple months ago, and youwere like, I really wanna do this thing,
and I was like, okay, let's do it.
So it really was like, for you and yourbirthday and, and all those things.
And just getting to spend that timewith you and, and see you and your
joy in this trip and, and making itbe a reality like that was really,
(29:36):
that was really fulfilling for me.
Oh, thank you.
Well, that's our show for today.
We'd like to thank the awesome audioeditor, Jen Zinc, and you can find
her at loopdilou.com, we'll leavea link to that in our show notes.
You can find the full show notesand transcript at eedapod.com.
That's E-E-D-A-P-O-D dot com.
(29:58):
There you can also find a link to ourPatreon, our bookshop link, and a link to
the ongoing, enthusiastic encouragementand dubious advice newsletter.
You can also find us on Instagramand Blue Sky at eedapod and
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(30:21):
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(30:41):
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(31:04):
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In the meantime, we hope youfind ways to be kind to yourself,
(31:26):
drink some water and read a book.
We'll be talking to you soon.
Gonna miss our friend in New York.
Joey Bats.
Joey Bats.
Ah, that guy Joey Bats.
He makes some good, uh, some good pastry.
Oh, I also had that hot dog.
That Snap-O-Razzo.
Ah, snapo...
(31:47):
Joey Bats and the Snap-O-Razzos.
Oh my God.
[Intro Music]
(00:15):
Hey there, pop Rocks.
Welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice, the podcast for
folks who would rather curl intothe fetal position than Lean In.
I'm your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle.
And I have a whole lot of feelings abouteverything that is going on right now.
I'm Nicole Elzie-Tuttle.
We're recording the showon April 10th, 2025.
(00:36):
So much has happenedsince we last chatted.
Yeah, we took an episode off.
We took an episode off because we, well,at least when we were supposed to be
recording, we were in New York City.
Yeah, we were celebrating Patricia-ween?
A Patricia-ween.
I actually, mmm...
(00:57):
no?
Maybe.
Maybe.
Patricia-Mas?
Patricia-Mas.
Patriciakuh?
Anyway, we were celebrating mybirthday in New York and we got
to see some friends of mine.
We got to see Audra McDonald in Gypsy.
She was phenomenal.
(01:20):
Yeah, you lost it in the first 10 seconds.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I'm pretty sure I blacked out for aboutfour bars during one of her big songs.
I just.
I don't know.
Time traveled.
I don't know.
Yeah.
We saw Redwood with Idina Menzel.
We did.
We did.
That was a show.
Uh huh.
Yep.
And we had some amazing bagel sandwiches.
(01:43):
Oh yeah.
Shout out to Murray's Bagels.
Oh yeah.
My bagel sandwich had alatke in the bagel sandwich.
Phenomenal.
On top of like egg and
sausage and bacon and cheese.
Yeah.
Like it was very
not kosher.
Not kosher.
Uh, and it was very delicious.
And we like took the subwayaround a bunch of places.
(02:05):
Oh yeah.
No, subway was pretty easy 'cause westayed near Grand Central Station.
We did.
We stayed at the Library Hotel,which is a hotel where every
room is a Dewey Decimal number.
Yes.
We stayed in the
African Religions room.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so each room also had like alittle bit of art in there, but it
(02:27):
had about 40 to 50 curated bookson that subject of that room.
So we were also on the religions floor.
Yes.
Now the Library Hotel is also abouta block away from the New York Public
Library's Central Library branch.
Yeah.
(02:47):
From the uh, 5th Avenue,42nd Street branch.
The one with the two lions in front.
So we went down there, wewent to the library store.
And we got to meet some celebrities.
Oh, we did.
That's right.
Which were Winnie the Pooh and Friends,the original Plushies that A.A. Milne
based his stories off of, uh, youknow, they tour around to different
(03:10):
museums and galleries and stuff, andthey were on display at the library.
Well, it was everybody except little Roo.
Except Roo, yeah.
Yeah.
little Roo uh, got lost inapple orchard about a hundred
years ago and never came back.
That's both horrifying and soundskind of like a Roo thing to do.
Yeah.
(03:31):
Also Piglet, hecka small.
Yeah.
That's why piglet's so small.
Oh my gosh.
He's just a lil guy.
He's just a little guy.
Every time I think abouthim I get tears in my eyes.
He's so small.
And also, yeah, Eeyore does look sad.
Yeah.
Honestly, I got tears in my eyesjust seeing them there, 'cause I
didn't expect to see them there.
Yeah.
We like, we're lookingat some other stuff.
(03:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was, you know, I'm gettingall for verklempt now, but
that was, you know, New York.
I'm posting pictures onmy Instagram, finally.
I post the pictures afterwe already get home.
Yeah.
And also I recently went out of mycomfort zone and I went to a women
(04:15):
and femmes of color entrepreneursand creatives networking event.
And so like I've made some connectionsand I just wanna pat myself on my back
for getting out of my comfort zone.
It is something like, I bought theticket a few weeks ago and then when
I woke up on Sunday, I was like,ugh, I don't wanna do this thing.
(04:37):
But you know what, past me did me a solid
Yeah.
And, uh, hey, to anyone whomet Patricia at that event.
And the other thing is I feel like I'vebeen doing a lot of yapping already.
Yes.
I brought you to a PattiLuPone concert on Saturday.
You did!
It was a show.
(04:58):
She had a cold, but she was,I mean, it's Patti LuPone.
She's so phenomenal that at onepoint she turned to below her nose
and the audience started applauding.
And she turned around and gavelike everyone, like she laughed
and she gave everyone a looklike, what is wrong with you?
(05:20):
But I'm like, just imagine beingso amazing that people applaud
when you're blowing your nose.
Yeah, yeah.
Also, this was in Berkeley and maybethe whole of the Castro district was
Was there
there.
Yeah.
That night.
And the whole premise of the showwas, she called it Songs from A
Hat and she had 35 pieces of papereach with a song in a top hat.
(05:45):
And she would just pick out the songs.
And whatever she would pickout, that's what she would sing.
She would also let some peoplein the audience pick a song.
Yes.
And one person
Out of the hat.
Out of the hat.
Yes.
Not off a list, outta the hat.
And one person picked one andhanded it to her and said.
I hope it's a good one.
(06:05):
And the whole theater, I don't knowhow many people sit in this theater.
It's a massive theater.
Three tiers, orchestra,mezzanine, balcony.
You could hear a pin drop and Patty Luponetook the piece of paper and was like,
what do you think would be a good one?
(06:26):
And everyone just in our seats,absolute silence because we were all
mortified on behalf of this person.
And this person was not answering.
And she's like, oh look, he's getting shy.
No, really, everyone in thistheater wants to know what
you would think is a good one.
(06:47):
Poor man.
I almost died of secondhand embarrassment.
I'm like, why would yousay that to Patty Lupone?
But of course, finally someoneshouted out The Ladies Who
Lunch and that's what it was.
And brilliant, wonderful.
Ended with a bang.
So.
Yeah, I had a fun time, uh, tryingto figure out if I had seen that
(07:07):
song in a show before or not.
Yeah.
I knew most of the songs, but I waswondering like some of the songs
you recognized and some you didn't.
So.
And some took a few minutes becauseit was totally out of context.
That too.
Oh, hey, we have a Patreon.
We do have a Patreon.
I want you all tosubscribe to our Patreon.
(07:28):
That'd be so wonderful.
We have a great little communityover there with our weekly check-ins.
With our Helpful Helpers.
Our Helpful Helpers, and ourEnthusiastic Encouragers.
Oh, we can't forget ourenthusiastic encouragers, they
encourage so enthusiastically.
And we are going to announce thenew tier during our next show.
(07:56):
I finally, together, we finally figuredout like kind of what we wanna do.
And so just saying it out loud right nowis really gonna get a fire under us to
get it together and we will announce iton our next show, which is in two weeks.
This isn't gonna be like a fireunder us, like in Redwood is it?
(08:16):
Redwood the musical?
Yeah.
Ah, no.
It better not be
Like a sleeping in a tree.
Nope.
Stop.
Nope.
No.
We're gonna, we're just gonnaleave that musical as it's.
Okay.
You wanna tell us about the bookshop?
I do wanna tell you about the bookshop.
As all of you I'm sure are doingyour best to not buy books from
(08:37):
places like Amazon or Target.
May I suggest bookshop and may Isuggest our affiliate shop on bookshop,
which we have linked at eedapod.com,and we have linked in the show notes.
Where we mention, or actually we linkall the books that we have mentioned in
the show as well as books I've mentionedin the Enthusiastic Encouragement and
(08:59):
Dubious Advice newsletter, and you canshop them in our affiliate bookshop
and get the books and then supportus, support independent bookstores.
And book shop now now also doeseBooks, which is really cool.
Oh, that's so good.
Yeah.
[Transition Music]
(09:23):
So today is one of those days when we'regoing to talk about something that we
are each working on in our own ways andwe'll probably always be working on.
I don't think these are things thatcan really like that perfection
is attainable or even desirable.
We're going to talk aboutbeing scared of feelings.
(09:44):
Mostly our own feelings, butsometimes other people's too.
Now we do not have it all figuredout, but we're gonna share with you
what we've got figured out so far.
In the Enthusiastic Encouragementand Dubious Advice newsletter, volume
six, resources eight, which I willlink in the show notes, I shared a
(10:05):
blog post written by Kamron (Taylor)Melton for Therapy for Black Girls.
And the blog post is titled, Sitting WithYour Emotions, What Your Therapist Means
and How to Do It, and it's very helpful.
We understand how importantthis is academically.
It builds resilience.
(10:26):
Actually naming your emotionscan reduce the intensity of them,
and you can learn about your owntriggers and patterns and needs.
Also, if you continually keep yourfeelings all bottled up, they're
just going to show up in other ways.
Could be outbursts atloved ones or coworkers.
Could be physical illness or chronic pain,or a myriad other really undesirable ways.
(10:52):
Yeah, you don't wanna end up likethat one guy on inside out who
just had like a head full of Anger.
Too late.
Like I said, academically I getit, but I am not always the best
at this practically speaking.
Yeah, same.
In my many years, I have heard and evensaid myself that feelings are scary.
(11:16):
Sometimes it's literally just thatphrase like, feelings are scary.
Or I've had a friend say that they'rescared to write down their feelings,
like in a journal or a letter,because if they write them down, then
they'll be real, and that's scary.
Or maybe it's avoiding having aconversation because they're afraid
(11:38):
they'll cry, or they're afraid the otherperson will cry, and every one of us
is just a haunted house of emotions.
Spooky emotions.
No.
Is is that a, is that a, a floatingsheet or is it just old, uh
(11:59):
old man Withers.
Old man Withers with Joy.
Old, sad-man Withers.
Old, sad-man Withers.
Awe.
He would've gotten away with it too
if it weren't for that Lexapro.
Aw.
I know a big part of this for meis that having big feelings can
(12:24):
be uncomfortable, and frankly, Idon't always wanna deal with that.
I've got a lot of other things I wanna do,so I'm just gonna avoid those feelings.
I will avoid feeling my feelings byintellectualizing them or by keeping busy.
The feelings can't catchme if I keep moving.
(12:47):
Or I will just have a laugh.
Why have feelings when I can have jokes.
Yeah, I know for me, likeintellectualizing my feelings really
allows me to distance myself from them.
In some ways when I'm doing this, Ifeel kind of like some sort of feelings
bird watcher like, ah yes, look,that appears to be some sort of red
(13:10):
cheeked anger that I am experiencing.
And like when I'm doing this, I'mnot present with that feeling.
And like, yes, I'm feeling it,but I'm not like feeling it,
feeling it, if that makes sense.
It's just like.
Yep.
That's, Hmm.
Look at that anger.
Anyways, I've got a workemail to respond to.
(13:31):
Yeah.
As with many things, I amtrying to approach this idea of
scary feelings with curiosity.
We use the word scary and we oftenassociate that word with danger or
something being harmful or being unsafe.
Or a Spice Girl.
(13:51):
You know, I am not going to go onmy rant about the Black one being
called Scary, but just know I can.
Oh, yeah, no, it's good too.
Maybe that'll be in one of our like,
paid,
paid episodes.
Paid episodes on Patreon.
That'll go on EEDAPod Nights.
EEDAPod Rants.
Oh no, EEDAPod Rants.
(14:14):
There are definitely people who are insituations where it would be unsafe for
them to show their feelings, good or bad.
In our household, we do talk a lotabout how toxic masculinity limits the
range of feelings that are acceptablefor men, and this is both good and bad.
(14:35):
Hey fellas, is it gay to be excited?
Uh, according to some, yes.
Oh.
As a Black person, especially a Blackfemme, I am used to having my emotions
policed in the workplace and alsohaving to be very mindful, even if I say
disagree with something, with a smile onmy face, some people will still read it
(14:59):
as anger or aggressiveness or whatever.
I'm just, sorry, I'm just like, yourjoy is so good and, like, I, I have
this picture of you being like, atDisneyland with like a corn dog and
like a coke and like in line for, Idon't know, Space Mountain or something,
(15:22):
and just like having the best, andsomeone's like, ugh, why she so angry?
Yeah.
It's, it's wild.
Racism is wild.
All this to say, we recognize thatthere are situations as well as
social expectations that keep peoplefrom expressing their feelings,
but also like really having them.
(15:45):
Yeah, even acknowledging them.
What we really wanna get at is whenwe are avoiding feelings in a space
that is relatively safe with a lovedone you trust, or writing in a journal
or notebook, or even in therapy.
My previous therapist would give me ALook, because she could physically see
(16:06):
me intellectualizing my feelings inreal time right there in our session.
And it wasn't necessarily a negative look.
I absolutely adored her.
It was just kind of like a, huh?
Like she could physically see
yeah
me up in my head.
Yeah.
And this is where like again,we want you to get curious.
(16:29):
When you say your feelingsare scary, what do you mean?
What are you scared of?
What are you afraid is going to happen?
Yeah, that last one's a good onebecause often what you're say you are
afraid is going to happen is somethingthat's unrealistic or even irrational.
Like saying, if I start crying,I'm afraid I won't stop.
(16:52):
Realistically, at some point you'regoing to get dehydrated or tire
yourself out and go to sleep.
I think a lot about all my grief andsure, I feel like crying more than
I do, and grief doesn't end, but theactual crying, the crying does not last.
24/7.
Yeah.
I mean, unless you're, thatone girl that Nine Days was
(17:13):
singing about, like back in 2000.
You had to look up that thatband was called Nine Days.
Yeah.
I, I had never heard that in my life.
I know.
I know the song.
I know the song.
Yeah.
Y'all go look it up.
It's really catchy,it's stuck in your head.
You mentioned earlier also being scaredof other people's feelings, for example,
(17:34):
like avoiding conversations becausethe other person might cry or be upset.
Yeah, that's a tough one.
People can be bringing a lot of theirown baggage to the table when they
say that one, especially if they grewup in a home where they constantly
had to navigate and tiptoe around thefeelings of emotionally immature adults.
(17:56):
For me, like if I share somethingdifficult with you, I really have to
ground myself in my trust for you.
Trust that while you may havenegative feelings, those won't
turn into negative behavior.
And this, I just wanna acknowledge, canbe a lot harder in professional settings.
(18:19):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
There's also a lot around feeling feelingsthat is passed down through culture.
A really obvious place to see thisis evident in the discomfort that
white people experience both, like,trying to hide their own emotions
(18:39):
or, or trying to not show emotions.
But also when they encounterother people being less restrained
with their feelings in public.
And this is likely partly or less,more than partly due to the export
of British stoicism, which you mayhave also heard of as the stiff
(19:01):
upper lip, through colonization.
And while we don't revere that stoicismas much today or, or we really should
not be revering that kind of stoicism,many white people still have a preference
for restraint in public and they can getreal uncomfortable or funny enough, have
(19:25):
a lot of feelings about it when others,especially non-white people, do not abide
by such cultural norms of restraint.
Ugh.
I have so much to say about this.
First of all, something that wedon't have in the script, but I'm
reminded of listening to this, isabout white women weaponizing tears.
(19:47):
Oh, yeah.
Especially in public or in the workplace.
Yeah.
Well, you have to be as a whiteperson, so restrained all the time.
So if you're having tears like
Someone's gonna pay.
That's, that's a major thing.
Yeah.
And then the other thing is youmentioned not revering stoicism.
Uh, so in my gig where I recommendbooks, I see the thousands of books
(20:13):
that are coming out all the time.
And I am sorry to burst yourbubble, but there's a whole
entire reverence around stoicism.
There are so many books and videosand exalting of stoicism right now.
(20:33):
I'm aware of it because ofthe books, but it's really
attached to alpha male culture.
Which is something that wedon't have in our bubbles.
And so stoicism is a whole thingand it's a little bit scary.
It makes me incredibly sad.
(20:56):
Yeah.
And then the other thing I'm remindedof, finally, is thinking about people
being uncomfortable with big feelings.
I think about the group of Blackwomen who were on the wine train
tour in Napa, and people complainedand got them kicked off the train
(21:16):
because they were laughing too loud.
And having fun.
They're having too much fun.
Yeah, I've definitely, I laugh loudly,I laugh loudly, and I've definitely
gotten scare, stares, scares, staresin public because I'm laughing loudly.
Yeah, you are not being restrainedenough in your emotions.
(21:37):
You're, you feelingsare too big sometimes.
Your joy.
I am sorry.
I am just too funny and I crack myself up.
Gonna connect these dots to one morething as we kind of are connecting
the dots a little bit away fromour central, or I guess maybe
around our, our central idea here.
(21:59):
This particular area really has likea direct connection to tone policing.
Which is criticizing or devaluing the waysomeone is speaking, the way someone is
speaking or saying something instead ofactually addressing what they are saying.
Absolutely.
(22:19):
You know, women are too emotionalto lead or be president.
Were you all able to, uh, hear how loud myeyes just rolled right now, thinking about
all these men out here having mantrums?
Mantrums,
You about fell off the couchwhen I said that the first time.
(22:39):
It's a good word.
It is,
it's a good word.
And like.
Well, and, and all this conversationis also like, in, in a weird way,
is, is having feelings, is feelingyour feelings, anti-white supremacy,
whoa.
Is feeling your feelingsanti-patriarchy, right?
(23:01):
Like,
and just, like, experiencing them,sharing them, and having big feelings
yeah
publicly.
Yeah, well, like we have in our home,like joy is an act of resistance.
And we're not necessarily talking aboutlike cisgender straight people here.
Like trans joy is resistance, Blackjoy is resistance because there's
(23:21):
so many people out there that don'twant these circles and communities
of people to not have that.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm gonna bring it back around tofeelings being scary, and note that
it's worth examining each situationand realizing that sometimes when
(23:43):
we're saying we're like scared of thesefeelings or we're feeling scared, we are
actually safe and it's going to be okay.
And I'm gonna ask here, insteadof feeling afraid, are we just
feeling uncomfortable instead.
Or afraid of discomfort.
Or, well, yeah.
(24:04):
Yeah.
Like are we edging being neardiscomfort And that's what like
is pushing us away from that.
Yeah.
And then, I'm gonna say it,and then you can do it scared.
You can be scared of yourfeelings and still have them.
And do the scary thing.
And you can have that scaryconversation where you cry or the
(24:25):
other person cries 'cause you're,you're not gonna die from crying.
Like,
Maybe you both cry together.
Maybe you cry.
Maybe it's a team.
Yeah.
Team challenge.
It's a, it's a team effort.
It's a, it's a group.
It's a group project.
It's a group project.
Yeah.
If I'm crying, everyoneelse around me is crying.
Yeah, it happens like that sometimes.
It does happen like that sometimes.
(24:46):
It be like that, sometimes.
It do be like that, sometimes.
And I'm gonna say this, the moretime you spend with your feelings,
the less scary they will be.
I'm gonna, I'm gonnatake another step here.
Maybe, maybe you can eventuallybe friends with your feelings.
(25:08):
Nope fake news.
Maybe you can be,
maybe, maybe I at least won't be soterrified of feeling them sometimes.
Maybe.
And what we're, we're not talkingabout like the laughter and stuff here.
Absolutely.
(25:28):
One more thing.
As we mentioned earlier, naming thefeelings like actually naming the thing
can help alleviate some of the intensityand therefore, some of the scariness.
Over the many years of the EnthusiasticEncouragement and Dubious Advice
newsletter, I've shared differenttools to help you name your feelings.
I'm actually going to link each ofthose issues in the show notes so you
(25:52):
have easy access to those resources.
I might just start naming myfeelings after Weird Birds.
That's a Blue Wing Song Sobber.
No, I'm just going to name myfeelings like people names.
Oh, I got a, I got acase of the Billys today.
(26:14):
What's wrong?
Uh, Bruce.
Oh No, Bruce..
I don't know, feelinga bit of Janet today.
Janice.
Ms. Jackson, if you're nasty.
Whoa.
[Transition Music]
(26:38):
Okay, so we've carried on a bit.
Patricia, what do you wanna make surepeople kind of take away from this?
I think, and this is maybe justmy rules for living, uh, and your
mileage may vary, but ask why.
Why am I scared to feel X, Y, Z?
Like, don't maybe question that you areor you are not, but like, why am I scared?
(27:01):
What am I afraid will happen?
And Nicole, what's your takeaway?
My takeaway here is that you needto get outta your comfort zone with
what feelings you allow yourself toexperience, if you have a habit of saying
that you're scared of your feelings.
The more time you spend withthem, the more comfortable you
(27:22):
are going to be feeling them.
All right.
Well,
Yeah, just kind of sitwith those for a minute.
Yeah.
Patricia?
Yes, Nicole.
What's been filling your cup lately?
You know, our trip toNew York was perfect.
(27:46):
Dare I say perfect?
You know, it went off without a hitch.
Everything was on time.
We got to do what we wanted to do.
See what we wanted to see.
There's plenty on our map forus to see next time we go.
But I think what's filling me most is thatthere were a couple friends that maybe I
(28:07):
had lost contact with or just hadn't seenin like 20 years, one of them 25 years,
and I reached out and I was like, hey,my wife and I are gonna be in New York.
Are you up to like hang outand see us and meet my wife?
And both of them werelike, immediately, yes.
(28:29):
You tell me when andwhere and I will be there.
And, I don't know.
That's just really filling my cup rightnow that I, I mean, I also just know
some really great people and I knowI would do that for them too, right.
But just that, you know, decades couldpass and they're still like, yeah.
Where am I meeting you?
What are we doing?
Yeah.
(28:50):
Nicole, what's filling your cup?
This trip really did a lot for me as well.
A big part of it was justspending all the time with you.
I know for the listeners we're weirdand gross to a lot of people, but
we legitimately can spend 24 hoursa day with each other for weeks on
end and just have pure joy in it.
But also, this trip was one that wekind of made the decision to do on a
(29:15):
whim like a couple months ago, and youwere like, I really wanna do this thing,
and I was like, okay, let's do it.
So it really was like, for you and yourbirthday and, and all those things.
And just getting to spend that timewith you and, and see you and your
joy in this trip and, and making itbe a reality like that was really,
(29:36):
that was really fulfilling for me.
Oh, thank you.
Well, that's our show for today.
We'd like to thank the awesome audioeditor, Jen Zinc, and you can find
her at loopdilou.com, we'll leavea link to that in our show notes.
You can find the full show notesand transcript at eedapod.com.
That's E-E-D-A-P-O-D dot com.
(29:58):
There you can also find a link to ourPatreon, our bookshop link, and a link to
the ongoing, enthusiastic encouragementand dubious advice newsletter.
You can also find us on Instagramand Blue Sky at eedapod and
email us at eedapod@gmail.com.
We hear nothing if not consistent.
We would also appreciate it so muchif you would subscribe and rate us on
(30:21):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever youget your podcasts that allow ratings.
You know, it's been several monthssince we've had a rating on Apple
Podcasts and we miss you all.
If you're out there and you haven'tgiven us a rating or a written review.
We miss you.
Come stop by our Apple Podcast page.
(30:41):
Give us a little, a littlefive star rating there.
Please let us know how we're doing.
Yeah
Unless we're doing terribly, like,you could keep that to yourself.
I mean, I don't think we're doing that.
That's fair.
All this to say that anything you cando with giving us ratings or reviews
or sharing the show
or sharing the show, all of thatreally helps other people find us.
(31:04):
And also helps grow ourlittle eedapod community.
We would also appreciate anyone who cansubscribe to us in that community on
Patreon support is going to help us keepthis show going, especially without ads.
You can find us at patreon.com/eedapod.
In the meantime, we hope youfind ways to be kind to yourself,
(31:26):
drink some water and read a book.
We'll be talking to you soon.
Gonna miss our friend in New York.
Joey Bats.
Joey Bats.
Ah, that guy Joey Bats.
He makes some good, uh, some good pastry.
Oh, I also had that hot dog.
That Snap-O-Razzo.
Ah, snapo...
(31:47):
Joey Bats and the Snap-O-Razzos.
Oh my God.
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