May 22, 2025 • 34 mins
What if your career could be both meaningful and successful—on your terms?
In this insightful episode of Entrusted to Lead, Danita Cummins sits down with Georgi Enthoven, strategist, coach, and host of The Work That Is Worth It podcast. Together, they unravel the journey of aligning your career with your core values, addressing the silent struggles many high-achievers face: burnout, misalignment, and the lingering question—Is this all there is?
Georgi shares her "90,000-hour revelation," what it means to live and work intentionally, and the surprising pitfalls of being an "unrewarded do-gooder" or an "uninspired achiever." You’ll walk away with practical tools for personal and professional recalibration.
Whether you're leading a business, nonprofit, or public-sector team, this conversation will challenge you to play bigger, own your strengths, and redefine how success looks and feels.
Key Takeaways:
- Why 90,000 hours is the most important number you've never thought about.
- The cost of undervaluing "heart work"—and how to change the narrative.
- Four identity profiles Georgi uses to help people redefine career impact.
- How to avoid misalignment and reignite fulfillment in your work life.
- The power of small pivots toward big change.
Useful Links:
- Georgi Enthoven’s Website → https://georgienthoven.com/
- Work That’s Worth It Podcast → https://georgienthoven.com/podcast/
- Order Georgi's Book: Work That’s Worth It → https://georgienthoven.com/book/
- Follow Georgi on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/georgienthoven/
- Connect with Georgi on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgienthoven
Call to Action:
💬 What does meaningful work look like for you? DM Danita or leave a review sharing your biggest takeaway from this episode.
How are you enjoying this episode? Send us a note!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey friends, welcome to Entrusted to Lead the place
where clarity meets courage forleaders like you who are ready
to design a life and anorganization that reflects your
deepest purpose.
Today, my guest is GeorgieEnthoven.
She is a thought leader, astrategist, a coach, a writer
and a podcast host, and I amsuper excited to share our
conversation today, where shehelps us dig into those 90,000
(00:31):
hours of work where we spend themajority of our life.
In this conversation, we'regoing to unpack what it really
means to live with intention andhow to structure, reflect and
align our lives and our valuesso that we can make the most
meaning for ourself and thosearound, so that we can make the
most meaning for ourself andthose around us.
So grab your cup of coffee oryour favorite beverage and let's
get started.
(00:52):
Leadership can feel really heavysometimes, especially when
you're carrying vision andpeople and purpose all on your
shoulders all at the same time.
You have got a big mission, butthe strategy feels fuzzy and
your team is looking at you forclarity that you're not sure you
actually have.
I get it.
It's hard.
I'm Danita Cummins.
(01:12):
I help faith-driven leaderslike you find clarity, align
with your values and lead withconfidence without burning out,
because that's never okay.
If you're ready to get unstuck,lead your team with courage and
to turn that God-given visioninto a strategy that really
works.
I want us to talk.
Take the free leadershipclarity quiz that I've created
(01:34):
today and I want you to scheduleyour no-pressure coaching call,
because together we can uncoverwhat's holding you back and how
to move forward in faith andconfidence.
Hey friends, welcome toEntrusted to Lead.
I'm Danita, and today I amjoined by my new friend and
fellow podcast host, which I'malways super excited to meet
(01:54):
people in the community GeorgieNthoven.
She's a founder and writer andshe hosts the Work that Is Worth
it podcast, and she spent aboutthree decades serving in a
variety of industries and roles,and today she is on a mission
to help individuals turn theircareer into work that is,
helping them find a career and acalling that's good for both
(02:15):
them and for the world, which Ithink is super exciting.
So we're going to just starttoday, jump into a conversation.
So, Georgie, how are you today?
Thanks for joining me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I am doing incredibly well and just really delighted
to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Oh, you're very welcome.
This is super fun.
I love having conversationswith fellow podcast hosts
because I feel like it's like avery small community of people
and we're just super excitedabout the work that we do, so I
love having an opportunity toshare space with my fellow
podcasters.
Yeah, thank you, you're welcome.
Your work and your story, Ithink, are both very powerful.
So, to start off, can you sharekind of the pivotal moment that
(02:50):
led you to start your journeyinto this life design and this
intentional living space whereyou find yourself today?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, I love the question because it immediately
makes me feel like I don't havethe exact answer.
But I tell you why I don't havethe exact answer is because I
like to think of my career astaking the scenic route or like
a lot of zigzagging, and so Iknow the moment that I sort of
started to find my groove.
But I think all those I don'twant to say wrong turns, but
(03:17):
turns that didn't end up being adirection I really wanted to
pour myself into, all haveincredible nuggets that I have
carried forward that got me tothe point where I understood
what was really the calling orthe work that I find really
worth it.
And so for me the real pivotalpoint of that was during COVID
started being certified tobecome a coach, and I found that
(03:41):
work so intriguing because itwas so much introspection that I
had never formally done beforeand I was just so surprised that
I had gotten through so manyyears of working and Harvard
Business School and things likethat and still didn't ever know
these answers to the questionsor even know these questions I
should be asking, and so thatwas like a real turning point
(04:04):
and at that time I really sortof found my people in those
classes and in that community.
But I knew that I wanted totake that and use it for
something afterwards and quitequickly I ended up.
Well for me.
I actually was on like a minisabbatical and I had this
download, I would say, from theuniverse or wherever anyone
(04:24):
believes of where you get thesedownloads from.
But it was a creative download,like very deliberate and in a
moment of time, and that was towrite a book, and the book was
really to help people use theircareers for good.
But it came from sort of threepieces of information that came
together that day.
And one was I read an articlein the Harvard Business Review
(04:46):
that the average career is90,000 hours, and so I was just
really amazed by that andthought why didn't anybody ever
tell me you could break that uphowever you want, but that's
such a large amount of time andif we assume we all get that
amount of time, then you're richin hours, especially when
you're starting your career.
And then the second was thesetwo women sitting on a sofa
(05:06):
together and they're talking andthe weather is in the
background of all the tornadoesand floods and things happening
in our climate, and they say Idon't think giving up straws is
going to be enough.
Those two pieces of informationtogether just was like we have
to use hours in our careers todo something more than just
giving up straws.
To do something more than justgiving up straws and then just
knowing the urgency of climate,how are we going to do better
(05:26):
for our planet, do better forhumanity, our communities,
animals and nature?
And that we need to be makingsome drastic shifts.
And I really believe businessis a force for good.
So the book came from thereading that I did and those
sort of little provocations thatthen came together into
something that completelyignited me.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That is so good.
I love the backstory because Ithink that's the piece that most
people we see things socialmedia or we pick up a book and
we read it and maybe the authortold the backstory.
But I always love that when youflip to the back and the
acknowledgements or that sectionwhere the author has taken the
chance to say this is what I wasdoing late at night when this
idea or this concept came and tosee where it comes through, all
(06:05):
the different springing forthof life and all the different
places that it will touch.
So I think that's beautiful.
Your brand speaks to designinga life that fits.
So you're helping people findthis place or calling and
connection, but also doing it ina place that they show up, in
the workplace, and what thatlooks like.
Can you just talk a little bitmore about that into detail and
really from a perspective ofwhat does that look like for
someone who's leading a businessor maybe they're doing
(06:28):
nonprofit or faith-based work orworking in the government?
What does that really look likefor that person?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, in my book I talk about seven different
pillars that I noticed areeither questions people have
about doing meaningful work withimpact and income, and also
from interviewing what I callthese superstar role models who
are already doing it and whatthey had.
That was really unique, and soit's different aspects that I
would combine, but I think thatwhat I noticed in talking with
(06:57):
many, many people during thisjourney of writing a book is a
lot of the people doing amazingwork in the world that are
really geared towards beinggivers of community society.
The world often play small, andin my conclusion is we need to
get these kindest, most generouspeople into places where
(07:19):
they're making big decisions andI don't think we're going to
necessarily be able to take oncapitalism in any short amount
of time.
So how do we get those peopleto play on a larger scale so
that they can be in C-suites andin boardrooms at least raising
a voice for better, more humanedecisions?
And so that is really what I'minterested in, and I noticed
(07:42):
that it could be internal thingsor external reasons why they
don't, but, for instance,external would be like the
teaching profession.
Many teachers are really undercompensated for their work and
there's such a critical role inour society and they do such
valuable work.
But that's something externalthat's very hard to change.
But internal stuff is you feellike your great work, people
(08:04):
need you and therefore you can'tcharge, and so there's
different aspects of that.
But one of the chapters iscompensation and really
understanding holistically whatgives you energy to keep going
for 90,000 hours, and so that's,for me, is what I find is not
just the income, but anythingthat's giving you energy and
fuel to go.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I think that's so good.
I haven't read your book,obviously, but I think on the
compensation piece, when youwere writing in the research
that you did, did you unwrapsome of the anxiety or fear or
the uncomfortableness around thecompensation piece?
Because I see that a lot.
I do a lot of coaching andconsulting in a nonprofit space.
I do see that compensationpiece come up a lot in the
(08:45):
struggle between should I getpaid for this work?
Is this hard work?
And then there's almost thisunrealistic expectation that
hard work should be free.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Exactly.
I think that's what keeps thesepeople small, and I think we
can all just like hold togethereach other's hands and say, guys
, we've got to play bigger,we've got to jump in, got to
have bigger stages, we've got toget the word out and actually
make money, because money in thehands of good people is a great
thing because they're investingit in other great things, and
so I think sometimes we can lookat money as not helpful, but we
(09:16):
all need it and there's nothingwrong with having access to
money, having money enjoyingyour life and doing good.
I actually end up categorizingpeople into four buckets that
they relate to and they feelthat they're in this stage, and
one of them is the unrewardeddo-gooder, which we've been
talking about, and it's somebodywho is just doing this amazing
work for the world but just notbeing compensated sufficiently
(09:37):
for that work, and we all losein that case because they burn
out and we don't get thosepeople making big decisions for
our society.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, that's so good.
I love that.
I'm in a personal journey ofgoing through some different
things, and I was just thinkingabout this last week actually,
so I appreciate that it's verytimely.
It's always.
The podcast is always somethingthat I'm personally working on
in this season of my life whereI'm like, oh look, here's a
person who has.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So yeah, well, I tell you the opposite of that is
what I would categorize as theuninspired achiever, and I
talked to many of those peopletoo, and these are people who've
been climbing this ladder ofsuccess, maybe a ladder they
didn't actually design or evenseek out, but society told them
that this is where you get allthe accolades and the high fives
.
Or they just really werechasing money, or they just
(10:24):
needed security.
No judgment on why you end upin these ladders.
We all have different reasons,but on this path people feel
like, yes, they're verysatisfied on their income, but
they're left feeling hollow,they're left feeling empty.
Maybe they don't like thepeople that they're around or
the communities that they're in,or they feel misaligned in
values.
So it's sort of the flip of theproblem.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah, I see that a lot too, and I actually had a
guest we were talking earliertoday about that very similar
thing where her life was likethat she was in her corporate
America ladder and was verysuccessful in her career, but
had a moment where she sat downon the floor and she was kind of
like is this all there is forthe next 30 years of my life?
Because if this is all there is,there's the great emptiness
that she felt, but she didn'treally know why, and so I think
(11:07):
that is very common and, to yourpoint, I think it's very kind
and gracious for us to giveourselves grace because, like
you said, money is not the rootof all evil, but different
cultures like to say.
But the point of it is aligningyour values and your heart and
to the work that you do is soimportant, and most of us never
(11:27):
get the chance to do that.
Or we jump out of home intoschool and we're off and running
with the world, and then wehave responsibilities, because
food, clothing, shelter is areal thing, and then you wake up
one day and you're kind of likeI don't really know how I got
here.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I love what you just said and that reminds me of part
of what I do, is I let youdream from like way up high and
see this big picture of 90,000hours Like how would you like to
use that in a whole?
And then there's also sort ofreally practical exercises of
today.
Let's look at your values,let's understand your strengths,
let's know where your gifts are.
That is all important.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I love that you said that, that you learned this when
you went through your coachingprogram, because you had said
you went through this coachingprogram and then started to see
this deep work that you wereneeding to do for yourself, that
you had never had a chance todo.
And I think most people findthemselves there as well, would
you agree?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, so interesting because on my podcast, I
interview people who I would sayare disruptors for good.
They are able to do careers,like you said, with a good for
them and good for the world, orcombining income and impact, and
especially women, but it's notonly women.
If you say, tell me yourstrengths, like, what are you
really good at?
Where are your gifts?
They may not have the words forit or they will say something
(12:39):
and I will repeat and say youreally are incredible at
communication or getting peopleon board with what you believe
in, and they have such a hardtime holding that.
It's always like oh really, ohwell, that's really nice.
The way we culturally expectpeople to show up in the world
is not to embrace theirstrengths, and one of the people
(13:02):
I interviewed in the book wasthis wonderful woman who started
a company called GoldieBlox,which is to get young girls into
STEM, and she did it originallywith toys, but it's also with
media now, and when Iinterviewed her, I just loved
that.
She was like yes, these are mysuperpowers.
That really helped me and thesewere my weaknesses.
This is where I needed help andit just was so refreshing to
(13:24):
have somebody own it, and Idon't think we're taught to do
that so that we don't seem likea jerk or that we're modest, but
there is something really greatabout actually knowing where
you do stand out in a room andyour gifts, and most of my early
career I lent into myweaknesses, so I spent a lot of
(13:44):
time trying to level up where Iwasn't strong, and so I was
often in rooms where I was theleast experienced person and I
found that really stimulating.
But what that meant is I wasnever going to stand out, and I
think if you are really leaninginto your gifts and trying to
find your calling or the thingthat you're just meant to do,
you've got to be comfortableowning your strengths and being
(14:05):
able to communicate thoseno-transcript, who are all in a
(14:43):
learning environment togetherwhere it's like, hey, no, I'm
going to do this and these aremy strengths and this is where I
stand out, and then you cantake this because you're much
better doing this, but it's acollaborative for me.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
It's a collaborative environment, right?
Because if I were left bymyself, I wouldn't probably be
very good.
But to have somebody on theother side of the table who's
like, oh no, you're really goodwhen you do X, y, z, and I don't
do that so well, so I'll takethis piece, you take that piece,
and anyway it's working outreally well.
On our team I noticed that itis very much everybody's working
together.
You can't always do it byyourself.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, and just being aware and intentional who you're
surrounding yourself by reallysort of sets you up for success.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I agree, that's very true.
So what is one way that youhelp people identify where their
current path is out ofalignment with their calling?
So we talked about that.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So the first place that I would start is
understanding your capabilities,and that's a lot about what
we've been talking about.
So there's different aspects toyour capabilities and obviously
it's sort of skills andstrengths, but I actually
include things like your valuesand perspective too, because I
think a lot of the people that Ihave found and interviewed who
are really doing meaningful workand being rewarded for it are
(15:49):
doing something that they careabout.
And why do you care about it?
Because you've experienced it,you've witnessed it, you felt it
.
So I think often we overlookthat, especially for young
people coming out of college,nobody asks what they care about
.
They just are asked what theywant to do, and so I do believe
that that's an important placeto start.
And then the second piece isstarting to think about what
(16:10):
your contribution is, and thisis sort of the big picture of
these 90,000 hours, but notnecessarily having to declare
what you're going to be doingfor the next.
You know many, many years, butis there a theme or something
that you want to become anexpert in and be known for and
be proud of?
And I have like a in-depth wayto sort of excavate things that
are important to you.
(16:30):
But at the end of it, if youonly end up with one word,
that's okay to start there, andit could be one or two words, or
it could be sort of somethinglike a declaration that you're
able to say, for instance, likeI'm going to end homelessness in
my generation, but it couldstart out with woman, or the
environment in Mexico, orwhatever it is, but it could
(16:51):
start out with just one word ortwo.
That gives you a direction andwithin your own company, where
you are ready, you can alreadystart integrating impact in that
one area.
But knowing what is sort ofyour anchor is really important.
So it helps guide you and knowwhat you say yes to and what
you're saying no to.
But it also gives youinspiration to get out of bed on
(17:12):
Monday and to be creative andfigure out how you're going to
contribute to something that youreally care about.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I think that's so good and I love that you're like
start where you are, Becausesometimes we have this mindset
where we're like I'm going to dothis thing and it's way over
there, Maybe, maybe you are, butdon't get frustrated if you
only have one word, like yousaid, or one little piece,
because it takes time.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And I think the idea because when I was getting into
this work people would saywhat's your purpose?
That feels really daunting.
It feels like the purpose isgoing to land on your lap one
day, and if it hasn't happenedto you, then how sad.
And I think of it in adifferent way.
I think you build your purposeand you do that by paying
attention to what's important toyou and being intentional with
(17:55):
how you're spending that time.
And so starting off with oneword allows you to get into a
community of people who alsovalue that, and then it probably
will get more funneled down tosomething more specific as you
have more experience.
But that's going to take time.
It's not something that youbuild overnight.
Anyone who can come into a roomand say I'm going to help you
figure out your purpose in thenext 30 minutes, I believe is
(18:17):
very difficult.
But what we can do is get yourdirection right, and having a
direction will really change somany of the decisions that
you're making day to day thatyou would have made without this
.
And it just when you ask theinitial question of how did you
get going on this path?
All the wrong turns help getyou onto the right turns and so,
but knowing if there'ssomething that you're working
(18:38):
towards, my hope is that you getthere earlier on in your career
so that you can do the mostgood that we can benefit from
your career hours.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I think that's so good.
I have the same perspective.
I think that purpose is likethe concept that we have purpose
today because I was just doinga book club last night, so we
were talking about it butpurpose is this perception that
we are going to find a losttreasure at the end of the
rainbow, right.
It's like a coat that you puton and then, once you have that
coat, that's just what you'regoing to wear the rest of your
life.
(19:07):
But life doesn't really worklike that, because things are,
people live and people die, andcompanies are there and then
they're not, and jobs last for aperiod of time and then they
come to an end, and and so justin my life and my journey, I've
seen all of these differentthings where it's like the role
that we hold becomes the purposeof who we are, but then what do
(19:29):
you do when that role ends?
Right?
And so really back to ouridentity in this very core place
of who we are, and I think it'smore simple in some ways, like
you're saying, the value system,the structure of holding onto
these core handles or valuesthat you hold, despite what job
or role that you might havetoday or tomorrow, but I do see
I think we talked about itbefore this anxiety right when
(19:50):
everyone, especially youngpeople, but older people too.
I know my 93-year-oldgrandmother was struggling with
what is my purpose at the end ofher life, because she had lived
this full life and her bodycould no longer do the things
that she wanted to do, but hermind was still very much active
every day, and so she foundherself in this place of what is
my purpose now.
So I see this struggle on bothsides.
(20:11):
You know young high schoolgraduates and college freshmen,
and then single moms and careerpeople and anyway.
So I think it's beautiful thatyou're helping people to unwrap
that in a much deeper way thanmaybe just the job that you have
today.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Trying to be perfect and having everything wrapped up
is like it makes it verydifficult to start, and so I
often will hear people trying tomake excuses why they can't
figure out something that'simportant to them, and the logic
will go something like oh, Iknow someone who's very into
climate change and is someonewho's very passionate about it,
but she wears leather, and so ina way, that sort of in their
(20:47):
mind is sort of canceled out thewhole thing because not all the
checks are there.
And I think it's reallyimportant to well, sort of
canceled out the whole thingbecause not all the checks are
there.
And I think it's reallyimportant to well two things One
is just get started.
Better today is better than notmoving at all in the direction
you want to go in.
So just get started and findthe right balance.
You're making the choices andtrust yourself to be making the
right choices.
And the second is I really don'tencourage people to spend time
(21:09):
judging what others are doing.
You may not understand it, butto think you know better for the
other person is something thatI definitely got out of.
Coaching is we just don't knowwhere people are sitting.
We can't feel what's going onin their body and their mind,
and so we really don't haveexpertise on anybody else.
What we do know is our ownjourney and our own preferences,
(21:29):
and so we may have a feeling oflike that wouldn't be for me or
I would need to go further onthat journey for it to be
legitimate, or whatever yourpersonal feelings are for you,
but we don't know about others,so it's not a good use of our
energy and time to spend timeworrying what others are doing.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I wonder, because my next question is really related
to like the person that feelslike they're pulled in multiple
directions or they feeloverwhelmed in order to move
forward, and I can assume thatwhat other people think is a
factor in that too.
Right?
So the same thing as you'resaying, we're considering or
thinking, assuming what otherpeople believe, but it comes
back to us on the other side ofthat what are people going to
believe or think about me doingX, y, z?
(22:09):
So do you have any advice orwords of wisdom for a person
who's in that place wherethey're like?
I do want my 90,000 hours tomatter and I want to kind of
maybe get off this ladder andmove forward.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I mean early on in my book.
I have this little scale andit's two questions, good for you
, good for the world on a zeroto 10 of those two questions.
And where are you now as far asyour career is good for you and
is good for the world?
And you mark a little X on theline.
And then where do you want tobe in two years?
And you mark that on the line.
And so you've got these twogaps potentially.
(22:39):
Look to see where the gaps are.
If there's no gap, then okay,you're okay with that right now.
But if there is a big gap,that's your clue to what to do
next.
And it's somebody who's reallyundercompensated and working
incredibly hard.
They probably need more forthem.
And so let's think about andstrategize and open up to the
universe what would an option be, using the skills that you've
(23:06):
already developed to allow youto bring in more income?
And I walk through differentoptions in the book, but it
could be moving to a differentcity that costs less.
Walk through different optionsin the book, but like it could
be moving to a different citythat costs less, but it could
also be taking a job on the sidewhere you are using your
expertise and being able to do aconsulting project, or it could
be switching in from educationto ed tech or something like
that.
There are options always to dobetter financially if that is
(23:27):
holding you back, and I thinkbeing aware of where you are is
really important, and we allvalue different jobs.
We will all have our ownfulfillment in different jobs,
so what works for you might notwork for me and the other way
around, and so you really justfocus on you and understanding
what the next step is is to seewhere those gaps are, and
that'll help you determinewhat's next.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I think that's so good and I think there is a good
practice in terms of gettingfeedback from others, right?
So, like you're saying, hey,this is something that I want to
do, or it's important, or hasanybody else ever done this?
Or I can get more ideas, likeyou're saying, because maybe I'm
in the place where I don't know, and so it's really great to be
able to come alongside somebodya coach or a group and say, oh,
they did it like this.
(24:10):
This is an option.
But I also find that to be alot detrimental as we go,
because then we're to your point, looking at everybody else and
you're saying, hey, well, whatare they doing, instead of just
(24:31):
well what does your heart say.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And that's hard to do , it's vulnerable.
So I don't say it lightly, butI do love how you're like just
focus on you here's your matrixand where are you at and be
honest with yourself and it'sokay.
And I always think any feelingof jealousy or resentment or
they're all giving you greatmessages.
So I think we sort of have thisfear of having any of these
negative emotions, but they'regiving you such great
information.
So if you are, for instance,doing this amazing work in the
world and you'reundercompensated and your
friends are being able to affordvacation and you can't go and
(24:53):
you're feeling jealous about it,that is your clue, that you
would like more, and that's okay.
That doesn't make you a badperson.
And I think those are sort ofthe internal things that we deal
with, that it's easier to fixthe internal stuff than the
external.
I mean, you've got more controlover it.
But those kinds of things arewhat if you allowed yourself to
earn more?
And what would it look like andwhat would the compromise be?
(25:13):
And it is job craft, it's notquick checks that all of a
sudden you get there.
But I do think also on the flipside is really understanding
compensation from a holisticstandpoint.
So often we get energy fromworking with somebody incredible
, like a role model, or beingable to work from home, or
having flexible hours, or beingpart of a really incredible
community of people that believein something that's so aligned
(25:36):
with.
All those things give us energy.
So don't take those off thetable and switch and then
realize that you've gone to theuninspired achiever camp and
have none of the impact andrealize you're now in the same
boat, just on the flip.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, that's so good.
Sometimes we don't realizethose other motivators that we
have.
That's so powerful.
So the last question I had andthen I want you to be able to
share about your podcast andyour book and all the amazing
things that you're doing is whatencouragement would you give to
a leader who feels like they'vekind of outgrown their current
situation but they fear steppinginto the unknown?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I like to think of those people as I guess that's
giving you a great clue that youneed to be more of a disruptor,
more of a rebel, more you arelooking for some more adventure,
and so I would think, like,what is the problem that you
want to solve and that's worthyour time and energy?
And so think way bigger anddream.
And the way that I like tothink about that is in coaching.
(26:30):
I often find people will say,oh, my work situation's not
great.
If I could just have something10% better.
10% better of mediocre is stillpretty mediocre.
What if you got thousands ofpercent better?
Like what is that dream?
And what if you only got to 70%of that?
That's still so much betterthan the 10% better than
mediocre.
So I think a really importantpart about coaching in general
(26:53):
but this doesn't require a coachit's just you being able to ask
yourself these questions of ifI have a blank canvas, what is
the dream If I had a magic wand?
What's the dream if I could doit, if I could reach for the
stars?
And don't worry about, oh, butI couldn't do that for this
reason, or I don't have theresources, or I don't have the
contacts, don't worry about anyof that stuff yet.
Just figure out what is thedream If you could have a
(27:14):
certain contribution to theworld or make a difference in a
certain way, what is that?
And then what are three to foursteps that would get you closer
to that?
And so you then backtrack it.
But if you can dream it, youcan make it happen.
We see that all the time, andhumans are incredibly gifted at
that.
So you really are limited bythe dreams that you're going to
have, how big you are willing todream.
So I would say that is like animportant part of any leader, of
(27:38):
let yourself be more of adisruptor.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I love that that you're only limited by the
dreams.
That's so good.
Yeah, my friend passed awaylast year and when I came home I
spent about a week just here.
I spent some time in that space, and so I think we do have
those moments of reflection,like you're saying, when
something hard happens ordifferent periods of our life.
But we don't have to wait forthat.
We don't have to wait for thereally hard stuff, because, to
your point, 90,000 hours is alot of hours, and so you can
(28:04):
start dreaming today, rightwhere you are.
Yeah, and if it feels dauntingto you again, that's your clue
to find something more exciting.
Because, I go back to in thisseason of my life, you only get
one life, so you got to make thebest out of whatever you have,
and the world needs us.
I think that's my heart, whereit is.
You can ease the suffering ofothers in a billion different
ways.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yes, but not at your own cost.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
That's exactly right.
Not at your own cost, that'sexactly right.
Well, do you want to telleverybody about the book and the
podcast?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Sure, I will tell anyone who's interested in
writing a book.
One of my early filters wouldbe are you willing to talk about
this for the next 10 years atleast?
Because I think any book thatyou put time and energy into is
going to take a lot longer thanyou expected.
But it really needs yourpassion to be able to live and
expand and have a chance toresonate with others.
And so the book is called Work.
(28:51):
That's Worth it and can helpanybody who is trying to figure
out how to have a career inincome and impact.
And in the book I really talkabout what is the contribution
you want to make andcompensation that matches that.
And there's lots of stories inthe book and there's exercises
and questions to get youthinking.
So it gives you inspiration butalso can give you the
discipline to how do you do this.
(29:13):
And it's really about gettingyour direction right.
Like I don't land you a job.
At the end of the book I'lltell you what you're going to be
doing, but you will feel likeyou are directionally heading in
a more aligned place.
And the podcast I launchedalongside of it, because when I
was interviewing people for thebook, I realized there's only so
many pages and thank goodness Ihave a good editor that cut my
(29:34):
million words down to 50,000 orwhatever it ended up being,
because nobody wants to read allthose other words.
But I found it's just soinspiring to me to be able to
shine the light on theseincredible humans doing this
great work and feeling reallyrewarded and excited.
And there's so many differentkinds of people, and especially
young people today seem to befunneled in a very narrow path
(29:56):
for success and of what successlooks like, and I am really
committed to showing people.
There's so many options and Ithink only once you can hear it
and understand differentpathways can you start being
creative and realizing what theopportunities are for you.
So the podcast is a very diverselook of all different kinds of
(30:17):
people from around the world,different genders, different
religions, different, you knowwhatever it is but they have all
found their way to fulfillment,and so it just talks about
their stories and how they gotthere and what's important to
them and the mission thatthey're on and that's also
called Work.
That's worth it and it'savailable in most places.
You get your podcast, so I'mvery excited about those.
(30:37):
I don't know if you'veexperienced this, but one of the
things that I know that I loveto celebrate other birthdays but
like to shine light on otherpeople, and one of the harder
parts of this is like actuallyaccepting some of the light
myself, because I'm usually likeno, no, no, look at these great
people.
But in the process, one of mylearnings is how am I willing to
(30:57):
hold some of the lightalongside that so that I can?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
get the message out.
That's so good.
It is hard, it is hard.
I published my book inSeptember October last year and
it was really hard to go on thepodcast and talk, because I'm
used to asking all the questionson this side and you said
highlighting somebody's amazingstory and how they do so.
It has been an adjustment forme to balance between that, but
I do agree with you.
I think that when you have amessage like that on your heart
(31:20):
and then you get to share thatwith other people and we our
book club that we started lastnight was just my book.
So it was our first night.
Oh, congratulations, thank you.
I think I've had like 15 of myfriends all sign up to say yes,
I'd love to come, but it's soincredibly humbling to be able
(31:40):
to sit at the table and thenyou're just like they read my
book.
That's so crazy and then allthe pieces that they picked out
of it and all the things thatresonated with them, and so it's
just this beautiful thing.
So I would encourage youtotally to do that, if that's
not on your author journey.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I love that idea and it just what it makes
me realize is this expansion,because my instant reaction
would be like, ok, enough aboutme, let's hear about everybody
else.
But for one night, for peopleto be generous and to really
engage in the work and yourthought leadership is a
beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And I'll say one of the ladies that joined last
night.
She says I've never been a partof a book club with the author
and I thought, oh me neither soit was.
I think the lesson is how muchof a blessing, just like you
said, all these people are sucha blessing to others.
But then don't block your ownblessing.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
A hundred percent.
Also, I pick a word for myselfevery year, and my word for this
year is expansion.
Because I do sometimes findmyself blocking it, maybe
because I'm like scared or notready, or and so every time I'm
like Georgie expansion.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yes, that's so good.
Open hands, I say open hands,that's what I.
Open hands, open heart.
Yeah, just let it in and let itout, and so that's so good.
Well, I'm super excited.
We'll put all the links in theshow notes.
And the podcast is.
I can say from having listenedto it, it's really in the show
notes.
And the podcast is.
I can say from having listenedto it, it's really really great.
So definitely subscribe towhatever platform.
Oh, thank you so much.
You're welcome.
(32:59):
Yeah, keep doing amazing things.
I'm super excited and pleasekeep us updated on how it goes.
We would love to have you comeback and we can talk more about
your exciting adventures.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much, and I reallyappreciated the questions and
the depth of the conversation.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Hey friends.
Well, if there's one thing thatyou can take away from today's
conversation, it's this youdon't have to stay stuck in a
life or a leadership model thatno longer works for you.
You have the power and you havethe permission to design
something new.
Georgie reminds us that clarityisn't just a luxury, it is a
strategy, and so I hope that youfound her message to be
(33:34):
encouraging and filled with lotsof tools and tips.
Don't forget to grab her bookand pop over and listen to her
podcast.
I am sure you will be inspiredjust as much as I have been, and
the most impactful leaders arethe ones who lead themselves
first.
So don't forget that.
And here's today's reflectionquestion that I want to leave
with you what area of your lifeor leadership feels misaligned,
(33:58):
and what small change could youmake this week to bring it one
step closer to the life that youtruly want to lead?
I don't know what it might befor you.
I have some ideas for myself,so make sure you take time this
week to write that down andreflect and think about your
leadership and your legacy,because it truly, truly does
matter, friend, and don't forgetto keep showing up every day,
(34:19):
even when it hurts, because youmatter too.
Have an amazing day.
I'll see you later.
Bye.
Hey friends, welcome to Entrusted to Lead the place
where clarity meets courage forleaders like you who are ready
to design a life and anorganization that reflects your
deepest purpose.
Today, my guest is GeorgieEnthoven.
She is a thought leader, astrategist, a coach, a writer
and a podcast host, and I amsuper excited to share our
conversation today, where shehelps us dig into those 90,000
(00:31):
hours of work where we spend themajority of our life.
In this conversation, we'regoing to unpack what it really
means to live with intention andhow to structure, reflect and
align our lives and our valuesso that we can make the most
meaning for ourself and thosearound, so that we can make the
most meaning for ourself andthose around us.
So grab your cup of coffee oryour favorite beverage and let's
get started.
(00:52):
Leadership can feel really heavysometimes, especially when
you're carrying vision andpeople and purpose all on your
shoulders all at the same time.
You have got a big mission, butthe strategy feels fuzzy and
your team is looking at you forclarity that you're not sure you
actually have.
I get it.
It's hard.
I'm Danita Cummins.
(01:12):
I help faith-driven leaderslike you find clarity, align
with your values and lead withconfidence without burning out,
because that's never okay.
If you're ready to get unstuck,lead your team with courage and
to turn that God-given visioninto a strategy that really
works.
I want us to talk.
Take the free leadershipclarity quiz that I've created
(01:34):
today and I want you to scheduleyour no-pressure coaching call,
because together we can uncoverwhat's holding you back and how
to move forward in faith andconfidence.
Hey friends, welcome toEntrusted to Lead.
I'm Danita, and today I amjoined by my new friend and
fellow podcast host, which I'malways super excited to meet
(01:54):
people in the community GeorgieNthoven.
She's a founder and writer andshe hosts the Work that Is Worth
it podcast, and she spent aboutthree decades serving in a
variety of industries and roles,and today she is on a mission
to help individuals turn theircareer into work that is,
helping them find a career and acalling that's good for both
(02:15):
them and for the world, which Ithink is super exciting.
So we're going to just starttoday, jump into a conversation.
So, Georgie, how are you today?
Thanks for joining me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I am doing incredibly well and just really delighted
to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Oh, you're very welcome.
This is super fun.
I love having conversationswith fellow podcast hosts
because I feel like it's like avery small community of people
and we're just super excitedabout the work that we do, so I
love having an opportunity toshare space with my fellow
podcasters.
Yeah, thank you, you're welcome.
Your work and your story, Ithink, are both very powerful.
So, to start off, can you sharekind of the pivotal moment that
(02:50):
led you to start your journeyinto this life design and this
intentional living space whereyou find yourself today?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, I love the question because it immediately
makes me feel like I don't havethe exact answer.
But I tell you why I don't havethe exact answer is because I
like to think of my career astaking the scenic route or like
a lot of zigzagging, and so Iknow the moment that I sort of
started to find my groove.
But I think all those I don'twant to say wrong turns, but
(03:17):
turns that didn't end up being adirection I really wanted to
pour myself into, all haveincredible nuggets that I have
carried forward that got me tothe point where I understood
what was really the calling orthe work that I find really
worth it.
And so for me the real pivotalpoint of that was during COVID
started being certified tobecome a coach, and I found that
(03:41):
work so intriguing because itwas so much introspection that I
had never formally done beforeand I was just so surprised that
I had gotten through so manyyears of working and Harvard
Business School and things likethat and still didn't ever know
these answers to the questionsor even know these questions I
should be asking, and so thatwas like a real turning point
(04:04):
and at that time I really sortof found my people in those
classes and in that community.
But I knew that I wanted totake that and use it for
something afterwards and quitequickly I ended up.
Well for me.
I actually was on like a minisabbatical and I had this
download, I would say, from theuniverse or wherever anyone
(04:24):
believes of where you get thesedownloads from.
But it was a creative download,like very deliberate and in a
moment of time, and that was towrite a book, and the book was
really to help people use theircareers for good.
But it came from sort of threepieces of information that came
together that day.
And one was I read an articlein the Harvard Business Review
(04:46):
that the average career is90,000 hours, and so I was just
really amazed by that andthought why didn't anybody ever
tell me you could break that uphowever you want, but that's
such a large amount of time andif we assume we all get that
amount of time, then you're richin hours, especially when
you're starting your career.
And then the second was thesetwo women sitting on a sofa
(05:06):
together and they're talking andthe weather is in the
background of all the tornadoesand floods and things happening
in our climate, and they say Idon't think giving up straws is
going to be enough.
Those two pieces of informationtogether just was like we have
to use hours in our careers todo something more than just
giving up straws.
To do something more than justgiving up straws and then just
knowing the urgency of climate,how are we going to do better
(05:26):
for our planet, do better forhumanity, our communities,
animals and nature?
And that we need to be makingsome drastic shifts.
And I really believe businessis a force for good.
So the book came from thereading that I did and those
sort of little provocations thatthen came together into
something that completelyignited me.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That is so good.
I love the backstory because Ithink that's the piece that most
people we see things socialmedia or we pick up a book and
we read it and maybe the authortold the backstory.
But I always love that when youflip to the back and the
acknowledgements or that sectionwhere the author has taken the
chance to say this is what I wasdoing late at night when this
idea or this concept came and tosee where it comes through, all
(06:05):
the different springing forthof life and all the different
places that it will touch.
So I think that's beautiful.
Your brand speaks to designinga life that fits.
So you're helping people findthis place or calling and
connection, but also doing it ina place that they show up, in
the workplace, and what thatlooks like.
Can you just talk a little bitmore about that into detail and
really from a perspective ofwhat does that look like for
someone who's leading a businessor maybe they're doing
(06:28):
nonprofit or faith-based work orworking in the government?
What does that really look likefor that person?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, in my book I talk about seven different
pillars that I noticed areeither questions people have
about doing meaningful work withimpact and income, and also
from interviewing what I callthese superstar role models who
are already doing it and whatthey had.
That was really unique, and soit's different aspects that I
would combine, but I think thatwhat I noticed in talking with
(06:57):
many, many people during thisjourney of writing a book is a
lot of the people doing amazingwork in the world that are
really geared towards beinggivers of community society.
The world often play small, andin my conclusion is we need to
get these kindest, most generouspeople into places where
(07:19):
they're making big decisions andI don't think we're going to
necessarily be able to take oncapitalism in any short amount
of time.
So how do we get those peopleto play on a larger scale so
that they can be in C-suites andin boardrooms at least raising
a voice for better, more humanedecisions?
And so that is really what I'minterested in, and I noticed
(07:42):
that it could be internal thingsor external reasons why they
don't, but, for instance,external would be like the
teaching profession.
Many teachers are really undercompensated for their work and
there's such a critical role inour society and they do such
valuable work.
But that's something externalthat's very hard to change.
But internal stuff is you feellike your great work, people
(08:04):
need you and therefore you can'tcharge, and so there's
different aspects of that.
But one of the chapters iscompensation and really
understanding holistically whatgives you energy to keep going
for 90,000 hours, and so that's,for me, is what I find is not
just the income, but anythingthat's giving you energy and
fuel to go.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I think that's so good.
I haven't read your book,obviously, but I think on the
compensation piece, when youwere writing in the research
that you did, did you unwrapsome of the anxiety or fear or
the uncomfortableness around thecompensation piece?
Because I see that a lot.
I do a lot of coaching andconsulting in a nonprofit space.
I do see that compensationpiece come up a lot in the
(08:45):
struggle between should I getpaid for this work?
Is this hard work?
And then there's almost thisunrealistic expectation that
hard work should be free.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Exactly.
I think that's what keeps thesepeople small, and I think we
can all just like hold togethereach other's hands and say, guys
, we've got to play bigger,we've got to jump in, got to
have bigger stages, we've got toget the word out and actually
make money, because money in thehands of good people is a great
thing because they're investingit in other great things, and
so I think sometimes we can lookat money as not helpful, but we
(09:16):
all need it and there's nothingwrong with having access to
money, having money enjoyingyour life and doing good.
I actually end up categorizingpeople into four buckets that
they relate to and they feelthat they're in this stage, and
one of them is the unrewardeddo-gooder, which we've been
talking about, and it's somebodywho is just doing this amazing
work for the world but just notbeing compensated sufficiently
(09:37):
for that work, and we all losein that case because they burn
out and we don't get thosepeople making big decisions for
our society.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, that's so good.
I love that.
I'm in a personal journey ofgoing through some different
things, and I was just thinkingabout this last week actually,
so I appreciate that it's verytimely.
It's always.
The podcast is always somethingthat I'm personally working on
in this season of my life whereI'm like, oh look, here's a
person who has.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So yeah, well, I tell you the opposite of that is
what I would categorize as theuninspired achiever, and I
talked to many of those peopletoo, and these are people who've
been climbing this ladder ofsuccess, maybe a ladder they
didn't actually design or evenseek out, but society told them
that this is where you get allthe accolades and the high fives
.
Or they just really werechasing money, or they just
(10:24):
needed security.
No judgment on why you end upin these ladders.
We all have different reasons,but on this path people feel
like, yes, they're verysatisfied on their income, but
they're left feeling hollow,they're left feeling empty.
Maybe they don't like thepeople that they're around or
the communities that they're in,or they feel misaligned in
values.
So it's sort of the flip of theproblem.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah, I see that a lot too, and I actually had a
guest we were talking earliertoday about that very similar
thing where her life was likethat she was in her corporate
America ladder and was verysuccessful in her career, but
had a moment where she sat downon the floor and she was kind of
like is this all there is forthe next 30 years of my life?
Because if this is all there is,there's the great emptiness
that she felt, but she didn'treally know why, and so I think
(11:07):
that is very common and, to yourpoint, I think it's very kind
and gracious for us to giveourselves grace because, like
you said, money is not the rootof all evil, but different
cultures like to say.
But the point of it is aligningyour values and your heart and
to the work that you do is soimportant, and most of us never
(11:27):
get the chance to do that.
Or we jump out of home intoschool and we're off and running
with the world, and then wehave responsibilities, because
food, clothing, shelter is areal thing, and then you wake up
one day and you're kind of likeI don't really know how I got
here.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I love what you just said and that reminds me of part
of what I do, is I let youdream from like way up high and
see this big picture of 90,000hours Like how would you like to
use that in a whole?
And then there's also sort ofreally practical exercises of
today.
Let's look at your values,let's understand your strengths,
let's know where your gifts are.
That is all important.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I love that you said that, that you learned this when
you went through your coachingprogram, because you had said
you went through this coachingprogram and then started to see
this deep work that you wereneeding to do for yourself, that
you had never had a chance todo.
And I think most people findthemselves there as well, would
you agree?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, so interesting because on my podcast, I
interview people who I would sayare disruptors for good.
They are able to do careers,like you said, with a good for
them and good for the world, orcombining income and impact, and
especially women, but it's notonly women.
If you say, tell me yourstrengths, like, what are you
really good at?
Where are your gifts?
They may not have the words forit or they will say something
(12:39):
and I will repeat and say youreally are incredible at
communication or getting peopleon board with what you believe
in, and they have such a hardtime holding that.
It's always like oh really, ohwell, that's really nice.
The way we culturally expectpeople to show up in the world
is not to embrace theirstrengths, and one of the people
(13:02):
I interviewed in the book wasthis wonderful woman who started
a company called GoldieBlox,which is to get young girls into
STEM, and she did it originallywith toys, but it's also with
media now, and when Iinterviewed her, I just loved
that.
She was like yes, these are mysuperpowers.
That really helped me and thesewere my weaknesses.
This is where I needed help andit just was so refreshing to
(13:24):
have somebody own it, and Idon't think we're taught to do
that so that we don't seem likea jerk or that we're modest, but
there is something really greatabout actually knowing where
you do stand out in a room andyour gifts, and most of my early
career I lent into myweaknesses, so I spent a lot of
(13:44):
time trying to level up where Iwasn't strong, and so I was
often in rooms where I was theleast experienced person and I
found that really stimulating.
But what that meant is I wasnever going to stand out, and I
think if you are really leaninginto your gifts and trying to
find your calling or the thingthat you're just meant to do,
you've got to be comfortableowning your strengths and being
(14:05):
able to communicate thoseno-transcript, who are all in a
(14:43):
learning environment togetherwhere it's like, hey, no, I'm
going to do this and these aremy strengths and this is where I
stand out, and then you cantake this because you're much
better doing this, but it's acollaborative for me.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
It's a collaborative environment, right?
Because if I were left bymyself, I wouldn't probably be
very good.
But to have somebody on theother side of the table who's
like, oh no, you're really goodwhen you do X, y, z, and I don't
do that so well, so I'll takethis piece, you take that piece,
and anyway it's working outreally well.
On our team I noticed that itis very much everybody's working
together.
You can't always do it byyourself.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, and just being aware and intentional who you're
surrounding yourself by reallysort of sets you up for success.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I agree, that's very true.
So what is one way that youhelp people identify where their
current path is out ofalignment with their calling?
So we talked about that.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So the first place that I would start is
understanding your capabilities,and that's a lot about what
we've been talking about.
So there's different aspects toyour capabilities and obviously
it's sort of skills andstrengths, but I actually
include things like your valuesand perspective too, because I
think a lot of the people that Ihave found and interviewed who
are really doing meaningful workand being rewarded for it are
(15:49):
doing something that they careabout.
And why do you care about it?
Because you've experienced it,you've witnessed it, you felt it
.
So I think often we overlookthat, especially for young
people coming out of college,nobody asks what they care about
.
They just are asked what theywant to do, and so I do believe
that that's an important placeto start.
And then the second piece isstarting to think about what
(16:10):
your contribution is, and thisis sort of the big picture of
these 90,000 hours, but notnecessarily having to declare
what you're going to be doingfor the next.
You know many, many years, butis there a theme or something
that you want to become anexpert in and be known for and
be proud of?
And I have like a in-depth wayto sort of excavate things that
are important to you.
(16:30):
But at the end of it, if youonly end up with one word,
that's okay to start there, andit could be one or two words, or
it could be sort of somethinglike a declaration that you're
able to say, for instance, likeI'm going to end homelessness in
my generation, but it couldstart out with woman, or the
environment in Mexico, orwhatever it is, but it could
(16:51):
start out with just one word ortwo.
That gives you a direction andwithin your own company, where
you are ready, you can alreadystart integrating impact in that
one area.
But knowing what is sort ofyour anchor is really important.
So it helps guide you and knowwhat you say yes to and what
you're saying no to.
But it also gives youinspiration to get out of bed on
(17:12):
Monday and to be creative andfigure out how you're going to
contribute to something that youreally care about.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I think that's so good and I love that you're like
start where you are, Becausesometimes we have this mindset
where we're like I'm going to dothis thing and it's way over
there, Maybe, maybe you are, butdon't get frustrated if you
only have one word, like yousaid, or one little piece,
because it takes time.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And I think the idea because when I was getting into
this work people would saywhat's your purpose?
That feels really daunting.
It feels like the purpose isgoing to land on your lap one
day, and if it hasn't happenedto you, then how sad.
And I think of it in adifferent way.
I think you build your purposeand you do that by paying
attention to what's important toyou and being intentional with
(17:55):
how you're spending that time.
And so starting off with oneword allows you to get into a
community of people who alsovalue that, and then it probably
will get more funneled down tosomething more specific as you
have more experience.
But that's going to take time.
It's not something that youbuild overnight.
Anyone who can come into a roomand say I'm going to help you
figure out your purpose in thenext 30 minutes, I believe is
(18:17):
very difficult.
But what we can do is get yourdirection right, and having a
direction will really change somany of the decisions that
you're making day to day thatyou would have made without this
.
And it just when you ask theinitial question of how did you
get going on this path?
All the wrong turns help getyou onto the right turns and so,
but knowing if there'ssomething that you're working
(18:38):
towards, my hope is that you getthere earlier on in your career
so that you can do the mostgood that we can benefit from
your career hours.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I think that's so good.
I have the same perspective.
I think that purpose is likethe concept that we have purpose
today because I was just doinga book club last night, so we
were talking about it butpurpose is this perception that
we are going to find a losttreasure at the end of the
rainbow, right.
It's like a coat that you puton and then, once you have that
coat, that's just what you'regoing to wear the rest of your
life.
(19:07):
But life doesn't really worklike that, because things are,
people live and people die, andcompanies are there and then
they're not, and jobs last for aperiod of time and then they
come to an end, and and so justin my life and my journey, I've
seen all of these differentthings where it's like the role
that we hold becomes the purposeof who we are, but then what do
(19:29):
you do when that role ends?
Right?
And so really back to ouridentity in this very core place
of who we are, and I think it'smore simple in some ways, like
you're saying, the value system,the structure of holding onto
these core handles or valuesthat you hold, despite what job
or role that you might havetoday or tomorrow, but I do see
I think we talked about itbefore this anxiety right when
(19:50):
everyone, especially youngpeople, but older people too.
I know my 93-year-oldgrandmother was struggling with
what is my purpose at the end ofher life, because she had lived
this full life and her bodycould no longer do the things
that she wanted to do, but hermind was still very much active
every day, and so she foundherself in this place of what is
my purpose now.
So I see this struggle on bothsides.
(20:11):
You know young high schoolgraduates and college freshmen,
and then single moms and careerpeople and anyway.
So I think it's beautiful thatyou're helping people to unwrap
that in a much deeper way thanmaybe just the job that you have
today.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Trying to be perfect and having everything wrapped up
is like it makes it verydifficult to start, and so I
often will hear people trying tomake excuses why they can't
figure out something that'simportant to them, and the logic
will go something like oh, Iknow someone who's very into
climate change and is someonewho's very passionate about it,
but she wears leather, and so ina way, that sort of in their
(20:47):
mind is sort of canceled out thewhole thing because not all the
checks are there.
And I think it's reallyimportant to well, sort of
canceled out the whole thingbecause not all the checks are
there.
And I think it's reallyimportant to well two things One
is just get started.
Better today is better than notmoving at all in the direction
you want to go in.
So just get started and findthe right balance.
You're making the choices andtrust yourself to be making the
right choices.
And the second is I really don'tencourage people to spend time
(21:09):
judging what others are doing.
You may not understand it, butto think you know better for the
other person is something thatI definitely got out of.
Coaching is we just don't knowwhere people are sitting.
We can't feel what's going onin their body and their mind,
and so we really don't haveexpertise on anybody else.
What we do know is our ownjourney and our own preferences,
(21:29):
and so we may have a feeling oflike that wouldn't be for me or
I would need to go further onthat journey for it to be
legitimate, or whatever yourpersonal feelings are for you,
but we don't know about others,so it's not a good use of our
energy and time to spend timeworrying what others are doing.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I wonder, because my next question is really related
to like the person that feelslike they're pulled in multiple
directions or they feeloverwhelmed in order to move
forward, and I can assume thatwhat other people think is a
factor in that too.
Right?
So the same thing as you'resaying, we're considering or
thinking, assuming what otherpeople believe, but it comes
back to us on the other side ofthat what are people going to
believe or think about me doingX, y, z?
(22:09):
So do you have any advice orwords of wisdom for a person
who's in that place wherethey're like?
I do want my 90,000 hours tomatter and I want to kind of
maybe get off this ladder andmove forward.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I mean early on in my book.
I have this little scale andit's two questions, good for you
, good for the world on a zeroto 10 of those two questions.
And where are you now as far asyour career is good for you and
is good for the world?
And you mark a little X on theline.
And then where do you want tobe in two years?
And you mark that on the line.
And so you've got these twogaps potentially.
(22:39):
Look to see where the gaps are.
If there's no gap, then okay,you're okay with that right now.
But if there is a big gap,that's your clue to what to do
next.
And it's somebody who's reallyundercompensated and working
incredibly hard.
They probably need more forthem.
And so let's think about andstrategize and open up to the
universe what would an option be, using the skills that you've
(23:06):
already developed to allow youto bring in more income?
And I walk through differentoptions in the book, but it
could be moving to a differentcity that costs less.
Walk through different optionsin the book, but like it could
be moving to a different citythat costs less, but it could
also be taking a job on the sidewhere you are using your
expertise and being able to do aconsulting project, or it could
be switching in from educationto ed tech or something like
that.
There are options always to dobetter financially if that is
(23:27):
holding you back, and I thinkbeing aware of where you are is
really important, and we allvalue different jobs.
We will all have our ownfulfillment in different jobs,
so what works for you might notwork for me and the other way
around, and so you really justfocus on you and understanding
what the next step is is to seewhere those gaps are, and
that'll help you determinewhat's next.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I think that's so good and I think there is a good
practice in terms of gettingfeedback from others, right?
So, like you're saying, hey,this is something that I want to
do, or it's important, or hasanybody else ever done this?
Or I can get more ideas, likeyou're saying, because maybe I'm
in the place where I don't know, and so it's really great to be
able to come alongside somebodya coach or a group and say, oh,
they did it like this.
(24:10):
This is an option.
But I also find that to be alot detrimental as we go,
because then we're to your point, looking at everybody else and
you're saying, hey, well, whatare they doing, instead of just
(24:31):
well what does your heart say.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And that's hard to do , it's vulnerable.
So I don't say it lightly, butI do love how you're like just
focus on you here's your matrixand where are you at and be
honest with yourself and it'sokay.
And I always think any feelingof jealousy or resentment or
they're all giving you greatmessages.
So I think we sort of have thisfear of having any of these
negative emotions, but they'regiving you such great
information.
So if you are, for instance,doing this amazing work in the
world and you'reundercompensated and your
friends are being able to affordvacation and you can't go and
(24:53):
you're feeling jealous about it,that is your clue, that you
would like more, and that's okay.
That doesn't make you a badperson.
And I think those are sort ofthe internal things that we deal
with, that it's easier to fixthe internal stuff than the
external.
I mean, you've got more controlover it.
But those kinds of things arewhat if you allowed yourself to
earn more?
And what would it look like andwhat would the compromise be?
(25:13):
And it is job craft, it's notquick checks that all of a
sudden you get there.
But I do think also on the flipside is really understanding
compensation from a holisticstandpoint.
So often we get energy fromworking with somebody incredible
, like a role model, or beingable to work from home, or
having flexible hours, or beingpart of a really incredible
community of people that believein something that's so aligned
(25:36):
with.
All those things give us energy.
So don't take those off thetable and switch and then
realize that you've gone to theuninspired achiever camp and
have none of the impact andrealize you're now in the same
boat, just on the flip.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, that's so good.
Sometimes we don't realizethose other motivators that we
have.
That's so powerful.
So the last question I had andthen I want you to be able to
share about your podcast andyour book and all the amazing
things that you're doing is whatencouragement would you give to
a leader who feels like they'vekind of outgrown their current
situation but they fear steppinginto the unknown?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I like to think of those people as I guess that's
giving you a great clue that youneed to be more of a disruptor,
more of a rebel, more you arelooking for some more adventure,
and so I would think, like,what is the problem that you
want to solve and that's worthyour time and energy?
And so think way bigger anddream.
And the way that I like tothink about that is in coaching.
(26:30):
I often find people will say,oh, my work situation's not
great.
If I could just have something10% better.
10% better of mediocre is stillpretty mediocre.
What if you got thousands ofpercent better?
Like what is that dream?
And what if you only got to 70%of that?
That's still so much betterthan the 10% better than
mediocre.
So I think a really importantpart about coaching in general
(26:53):
but this doesn't require a coachit's just you being able to ask
yourself these questions of ifI have a blank canvas, what is
the dream If I had a magic wand?
What's the dream if I could doit, if I could reach for the
stars?
And don't worry about, oh, butI couldn't do that for this
reason, or I don't have theresources, or I don't have the
contacts, don't worry about anyof that stuff yet.
Just figure out what is thedream If you could have a
(27:14):
certain contribution to theworld or make a difference in a
certain way, what is that?
And then what are three to foursteps that would get you closer
to that?
And so you then backtrack it.
But if you can dream it, youcan make it happen.
We see that all the time, andhumans are incredibly gifted at
that.
So you really are limited bythe dreams that you're going to
have, how big you are willing todream.
So I would say that is like animportant part of any leader, of
(27:38):
let yourself be more of adisruptor.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I love that that you're only limited by the
dreams.
That's so good.
Yeah, my friend passed awaylast year and when I came home I
spent about a week just here.
I spent some time in that space, and so I think we do have
those moments of reflection,like you're saying, when
something hard happens ordifferent periods of our life.
But we don't have to wait forthat.
We don't have to wait for thereally hard stuff, because, to
your point, 90,000 hours is alot of hours, and so you can
(28:04):
start dreaming today, rightwhere you are.
Yeah, and if it feels dauntingto you again, that's your clue
to find something more exciting.
Because, I go back to in thisseason of my life, you only get
one life, so you got to make thebest out of whatever you have,
and the world needs us.
I think that's my heart, whereit is.
You can ease the suffering ofothers in a billion different
ways.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yes, but not at your own cost.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
That's exactly right.
Not at your own cost, that'sexactly right.
Well, do you want to telleverybody about the book and the
podcast?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Sure, I will tell anyone who's interested in
writing a book.
One of my early filters wouldbe are you willing to talk about
this for the next 10 years atleast?
Because I think any book thatyou put time and energy into is
going to take a lot longer thanyou expected.
But it really needs yourpassion to be able to live and
expand and have a chance toresonate with others.
And so the book is called Work.
(28:51):
That's Worth it and can helpanybody who is trying to figure
out how to have a career inincome and impact.
And in the book I really talkabout what is the contribution
you want to make andcompensation that matches that.
And there's lots of stories inthe book and there's exercises
and questions to get youthinking.
So it gives you inspiration butalso can give you the
discipline to how do you do this.
(29:13):
And it's really about gettingyour direction right.
Like I don't land you a job.
At the end of the book I'lltell you what you're going to be
doing, but you will feel likeyou are directionally heading in
a more aligned place.
And the podcast I launchedalongside of it, because when I
was interviewing people for thebook, I realized there's only so
many pages and thank goodness Ihave a good editor that cut my
(29:34):
million words down to 50,000 orwhatever it ended up being,
because nobody wants to read allthose other words.
But I found it's just soinspiring to me to be able to
shine the light on theseincredible humans doing this
great work and feeling reallyrewarded and excited.
And there's so many differentkinds of people, and especially
young people today seem to befunneled in a very narrow path
(29:56):
for success and of what successlooks like, and I am really
committed to showing people.
There's so many options and Ithink only once you can hear it
and understand differentpathways can you start being
creative and realizing what theopportunities are for you.
So the podcast is a very diverselook of all different kinds of
(30:17):
people from around the world,different genders, different
religions, different, you knowwhatever it is but they have all
found their way to fulfillment,and so it just talks about
their stories and how they gotthere and what's important to
them and the mission thatthey're on and that's also
called Work.
That's worth it and it'savailable in most places.
You get your podcast, so I'mvery excited about those.
(30:37):
I don't know if you'veexperienced this, but one of the
things that I know that I loveto celebrate other birthdays but
like to shine light on otherpeople, and one of the harder
parts of this is like actuallyaccepting some of the light
myself, because I'm usually likeno, no, no, look at these great
people.
But in the process, one of mylearnings is how am I willing to
(30:57):
hold some of the lightalongside that so that I can?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
get the message out.
That's so good.
It is hard, it is hard.
I published my book inSeptember October last year and
it was really hard to go on thepodcast and talk, because I'm
used to asking all the questionson this side and you said
highlighting somebody's amazingstory and how they do so.
It has been an adjustment forme to balance between that, but
I do agree with you.
I think that when you have amessage like that on your heart
(31:20):
and then you get to share thatwith other people and we our
book club that we started lastnight was just my book.
So it was our first night.
Oh, congratulations, thank you.
I think I've had like 15 of myfriends all sign up to say yes,
I'd love to come, but it's soincredibly humbling to be able
(31:40):
to sit at the table and thenyou're just like they read my
book.
That's so crazy and then allthe pieces that they picked out
of it and all the things thatresonated with them, and so it's
just this beautiful thing.
So I would encourage youtotally to do that, if that's
not on your author journey.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I love that idea and it just what it makes
me realize is this expansion,because my instant reaction
would be like, ok, enough aboutme, let's hear about everybody
else.
But for one night, for peopleto be generous and to really
engage in the work and yourthought leadership is a
beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And I'll say one of the ladies that joined last
night.
She says I've never been a partof a book club with the author
and I thought, oh me neither soit was.
I think the lesson is how muchof a blessing, just like you
said, all these people are sucha blessing to others.
But then don't block your ownblessing.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
A hundred percent.
Also, I pick a word for myselfevery year, and my word for this
year is expansion.
Because I do sometimes findmyself blocking it, maybe
because I'm like scared or notready, or and so every time I'm
like Georgie expansion.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yes, that's so good.
Open hands, I say open hands,that's what I.
Open hands, open heart.
Yeah, just let it in and let itout, and so that's so good.
Well, I'm super excited.
We'll put all the links in theshow notes.
And the podcast is.
I can say from having listenedto it, it's really in the show
notes.
And the podcast is.
I can say from having listenedto it, it's really really great.
So definitely subscribe towhatever platform.
Oh, thank you so much.
You're welcome.
(32:59):
Yeah, keep doing amazing things.
I'm super excited and pleasekeep us updated on how it goes.
We would love to have you comeback and we can talk more about
your exciting adventures.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much, and I reallyappreciated the questions and
the depth of the conversation.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Hey friends.
Well, if there's one thing thatyou can take away from today's
conversation, it's this youdon't have to stay stuck in a
life or a leadership model thatno longer works for you.
You have the power and you havethe permission to design
something new.
Georgie reminds us that clarityisn't just a luxury, it is a
strategy, and so I hope that youfound her message to be
(33:34):
encouraging and filled with lotsof tools and tips.
Don't forget to grab her bookand pop over and listen to her
podcast.
I am sure you will be inspiredjust as much as I have been, and
the most impactful leaders arethe ones who lead themselves
first.
So don't forget that.
And here's today's reflectionquestion that I want to leave
with you what area of your lifeor leadership feels misaligned,
(33:58):
and what small change could youmake this week to bring it one
step closer to the life that youtruly want to lead?
I don't know what it might befor you.
I have some ideas for myself,so make sure you take time this
week to write that down andreflect and think about your
leadership and your legacy,because it truly, truly does
matter, friend, and don't forgetto keep showing up every day,
(34:19):
even when it hurts, because youmatter too.
Have an amazing day.
I'll see you later.
Bye.
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