April 15, 2025 • 42 mins
Episode Description:
“We need to think more about the ecosystem, and it’s not always the cheapest way to do stuff. I think we’re just trying to make a difference. And if we can make a living while making a difference, then that’s really important.” —Jason Walker
Regenerative organic farming is more than just a method—it's a revolutionary approach to healing our planet's most critical resource: soil. It offers a holistic approach that sees agriculture not as an extraction process but as a recuperative, life-giving partnership with the Earth.
Jason Walker is a visionary third-generation farmer who leads StarWalker Organic Farms, championing regenerative organic agriculture and raising heritage breed livestock in their natural environments. With a deep commitment to soil health, animal welfare, and sustainable farming practices, Jason is not just a farmer, but an educator and advocate for transforming our understanding of food production and its impact on human and environmental well-being.
Listen in as Justine and Jason decode the complex landscape of regenerative organic farming, exploring the intricate connections between soil vitality, heritage breeds, certification standards, and the profound impact of conscious agricultural practices on nutrition and environmental sustainability.
Meet Jason:
Jason Walker is a third-generation farmer and co-founder of StarWalker Organic Farms, a pioneering regenerative organic farm with nearly 45 years of organic farming experience. As a passionate advocate for sustainable agriculture, Jason has transformed his family's farm by implementing regenerative practices that prioritize soil health, animal welfare, and ecosystem diversity. Jason is committed to educating consumers about the importance of regenerative farming and its impact on nutrition, environmental sustainability, and food production.
Connect with NextGen Purpose:
Episode Highlights:
01:23 The Origin: StarWalker Organic Farms
07:34 Transitioning to Regenerative Organic
10:19 The Impact of Regenerative Farming on Soil and Ecosystem
21:38 Regenerative Farming: Challenges and Opportunities
29:03 Heritage Breeds and Nutrient-Dense Meat
38:44 Future Aspirations and Community Engagement
40:04 Availability and Accessibility of Regenerative Products
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Justine Reichman: (00:00):
Good morning. I'm your host, Justine, here on
(00:18):
the Essential IngredientsPodcast, and I'm excited to
welcome you here again. Welcometo the loyal listeners. Welcome
to the new listeners andviewers. It's so great to have
you be part of the community.I'd like to introduce you to the
guest that we are going to havetoday, because I am excited to
chat with him. His name is JasonWalker. He is a 3rd Generation
(00:38):
Farmer and a Co-Founder ofStarWalker Organic Farms, join
us as we explore buildingcommunity and transforming a
business to last the test oftime. So you're not going to
want to miss this. Stay tuned.Good morning, Jason. How are you
this morning?
Jason Walker: (00:52):
I'm doing great. How are you?
Justine Reichman: (00:54):
Good. I'm so excited to have you here and
learn all about your farm,StarWalker. If you're tuning in
on videocast--
Jason Walker: (01:05):
I'm well represented.
Justine Reichman: (01:07):
You are representing. 100%, you are
representing So Jason, I'm soexcited. I know this is a multi
generational farm, and you guysstarted back in the 80s, and
things have changed now. I wouldjust love to hear a little bit
about the backstory, and whatthe inspiration was behind
starting the farm initially inthe 80s.
Jason Walker: (01:27):
Yeah, it's a 3rd Generation. I'm third
generation. My son will befourth generation. And my
grandparents originallypurchased the farm back in the
early 70s, and I think theiroriginal intention was just
maybe an investment property. Mygrandpa was originally a
dentist, and I think he didwell. He was down in the Bay
Area, and I think he did well,and they bought his investment.
(01:47):
And then I think he startedspending a lot of time up on the
farm, and kind of really likedit. So then, eventually my
parents came along, and theyended up taking over the ranch
and kind of carrying on thatlegacy that my grandpa started.
I think it was the early, maybethe late 70s. My parents were
(02:11):
approached by a bunch ofsalesmen and Chemical Guys, and
they were, oh, you've got to usethis. The only way you're going
to have a crop is you have this.They just felt like there was a
better way. They'd been doing itfor enough years. They're like,
we're not using this stuff. Whyare we being forced to use it?
So that was when they jumpedinto the organic world, and so
(02:31):
we've been organic for almost 45years, I think, if I remember
correctly.
Justine Reichman: (02:37):
That's very forward thinking and advanced.
That's around 1977 ish, so late70s. I feel like my mom was a
very big adopter trying to getorganics when I was growing up,
but I didn't feel like it wasmainstream. I don't even think
we knew enough to make sure thata farm was organic.
Jason Walker: (03:00):
Yeah. And mostly it was smaller niche like mom
and pop, or naturopathic typeplaces would have a lot of
organic stuff. But it didn'treally catch mainstream until, I
think you got into more of thelate 80s, and the bigger retail
stores started carrying organic.And so I think it's been a slow
grind. But basically, the nutsand bolts behind it are just
(03:24):
basically growing food and doingstuff like they used to 40, 50,
100 years ago. Because really,what it's about is it's just
really about taking care of thethe soil. You take care of the
soil, you take care of theanimals. And if you have healthy
animals and you're eating themeat, then you're going to be
healthy. It's no different withvegetables, fruits or whatever.
(03:45):
You take care of the soil,you're going to have a healthy
product that people are going toput in their bodies, and then
they're going to be healthy.That's all I've known my whole
life. I did take a little stintaway from farming. I left, and I
was a general contractor forabout 15 years, probably about
19, mid 30s or something likethat. But I always knew I wanted
(04:09):
to come back to the farm. It wasdefinitely a little bit of a
hidden passion for me. I lovedit growing up. So even when I
was away, I would always thinkabout it. And then my parents
were ready to either pass thetorch on, or sell, or do
something. And so we came backand took over the farm, and
(04:30):
we've expanded and grown. We'vedone quite a few things in the
last 15 years. Or it's been lessthan that 12 years since we've
been back?
Justine Reichman: (04:39):
Years ago about when you guys went
regenerative, or did you guys goregenerative, or just organic?
Jason Walker: (04:44):
The regenerative thing is been like the past two
years. So when regenerativeorganic came around, were seeing
and kind of talks about it. Itwas like more certifications.
We're like, do we want to domore certifications? We've been
organic forever. We've got GAPCertification, which is animal
welfare. We've got like five orsix different with the real
(05:08):
organic. We got all thesethings, and we're like, do we
want to do this regenerativeorganic? And then we saw the
people that were behind it, themovement, and then we started
realizing what it was about.Even though we were doing these
practices for the past 40 plusyears, we were like, hey, having
that extra assurity to thecustomers that are buying our
stuff that we're doing it right,we've been doing it right for a
(05:30):
long time. So we decided to getthe regenerative organic
certification. Think it's abouttwo years now that we've been
regenerative organic certified.I think that's it's just another
step in the right direction ofgiving people the surety that
they're buying products thatare, the animals are taken care
of, soils taken care of, andthey're going to be nutritious,
(05:51):
dense products that people aregoing to love.
Justine Reichman: (05:55):
I think it's so important. And I think
there's a lot of education thatwe're exploring now to better
understand the impact ofregenerative, both on our health
and welfare, as well as theplanet. And I think that the
more people understand theimpact it has on them, the more
we're going to get people onboard to support this, to live
(06:16):
this way, to buy this way. Andthe more people that are living,
buying and growing in this way,the more it will expand. And
then hopefully, we'll see animpact on people's health, all
sorts of things. So before youwere running this, your parents
were running this, and it soundslike if we're talking 40 years
(06:38):
ago, was that them deciding togo organic? Or was that your
grandparents?
Jason Walker: (06:43):
It was them. My grandpa was in goof off mood. He
was building cabins and workingon cutting wood and stuff. So my
parents were really the drivingforce behind the ranch. They
took it over knowing that theywere going to be operating it,
and it was going to be kind oftheir baby. I think my parents
(07:05):
are old hippies. They went toschool. The crazy part is they
both have master's degrees, andI don't think they ever intended
to be on a farm. But I thinkthey brought a lot of their
experience in college, and theyknew that having a healthy farm,
healthy soil, healthy animalswas important. And so I think
(07:28):
that when they found the organicmovement, I think they were just
full in, we used to do all sortsof stuff. We used to do organic
potatoes. We used to do organiccorn. We go out when I was a kid
and early adolescence, we go outand shut corn at 6:00 in the
morning. And before I'd go toschool, my dad would run around
to all the local stores and dropoff big totes of sweet corn. I
(07:50):
mean, we did herbs and spices,we've done all sorts of stuff.
My dad was big on intensivefarming and not an expansive
farming.
Justine Reichman: (08:01):
So what values or ethos did they have
that you really feel you broughtthrough to today? Obviously,
things change. You're changingwith the times, and it sounds
like doing the regenerativeagriculture is important to you,
and I'd love to dig into whythat's important to you. I think
we touched on it about health,wellness and the planet. But
(08:24):
really, I'd love to hear alittle bit more about the impact
you hope it has.
Jason Walker: (08:27):
Yeah, yeah. Going back to my parents, they were
hard workers. My mom, I thinkshe was like, I remember with my
brother because my brother's 10years younger than me. I mean,
she'd be out there on thetractor raking hay, eight months
pregnant. People would alwaysjust be like, they go by and
(08:48):
double take and no cab tractor.She's just out there, freezing
cold mornings. Both of them,they were always working. And
they just loved what they did,and they thought it was
important. And I think thosevalues really stuck with me.
Even now, my parents arebasically retired. They go
(09:09):
camping and do all the funstuff, which is what I want them
to do. I want them to enjoy.They worked a lot of, a lot of
hard years. I'm still so youngand vibrant, so I definitely
want to be the workhorse now.But I think that work ethic is
huge. I mean, that's what I loveto do. Quite honestly, if I'm
outside doing anything is a goodday for me. Sometimes when it's
(09:31):
bitter cold, it's not super fun,but I still enjoy it. The
animals are fun and so and Ilike the whole process. We
talked about the regenerativeaspect of it is I like seeing
the soil. I like seeing all thebugs, all the birds, all the
stuff that's in the soil thatmost people don't realize. And
(09:56):
chemical agriculture, orconventional agriculture,
whatever you want to call it,all that stuff dies. I mean,
literally, just gets nuked yearin and year out. So all those
bugs, you don't get to see them.I go out in some of my fields,
and it's almost like a littlescary. You're like, wow, why is
there so many bugs and stuffgoing on here? But the crops
(10:16):
growing, the crops healthy. Ithink that the diversity in the
ecosystem is what makes itimportant, and everybody
supports everybody. Andsometimes, there's weeds in a
field that have the nutrientsthat help support the crop that
I want to grow. It's just agreat symbiotic relationship,
and it's really fun to watch.
Justine Reichman: (10:36):
If you were talking to me, and I'm a
listener tuning in today, whatcould you tell me that would
resonate with me? Not as afarmer, but as an individual
that really wants to understandwhy this is a good thing, and
why I want to buy regenerativefrom a regenerative farm.
Jason Walker: (10:54):
Soil is a living thing. There's so much going on
in soil. And if you don't feedthat soil, no different than us,
we've gotta feed our bodies. Butif you don't feed that soil good
stuff, and if you're taking careof that whole ecosystem, all the
(11:15):
little bugs and worms and allthat stuff that's in the soil,
that all is what makes healthyplants. And if you don't have
that going on in the soil, ifyour soil is dead, I say nuked.
I'm not trying to giveconventional agriculture a hard
time, but I'm also just kind oftrying to say that if you're not
(11:39):
nourishing that soil, thenyou're not going to grow good
crops. If you don't grow goodcrops, you're not going to feed
the animals. You're not going tofeed people. What it goes back
to is just taking care of theessential thing in our soil, and
we're also losing farm groundlike crazy, cities and
(12:00):
everything. So I think whenpeople think they go to the
store, they look at the labels,or they're thinking about what
they're purchasing, thingsthey're going to do, they have
to understand that the peoplethat are taking care of the soil
are the ones that you want tosupport. Because if we don't,
we're not going to have thesoil, we're not going to have
the nutrient density. We're notgoing to have healthy animals.
(12:23):
And I know it's it seemsdaunting because there's so much
production in the US, and weproduce a lot of food and
animals. I can't expecteverybody tomorrow to turn, but
what I can do is put the messageout there. Every small step that
somebody can do, and it startsat the consumer. If the consumer
(12:43):
is buying regenerative ororganic products, the people who
are making or farming, they'regoing to see that. They're going
to understand that there's atrend in that direction, and
they're going to have to makethose small changes on their
farm, whether it's maybe usingless chemicals or using cover
crops. Or doing something tohelp take care of the soil.
(13:05):
That's where the money is.They're going to follow it. So
the more people, consumers wecan think that are thinking in
that direction, the more farmersare going to follow suit. It
might take 10, 20, 30, 40 years,but we got to start somewhere.
Justine Reichman: (13:19):
I totally agree, and I believe in baby
steps. I think that that's thebest way to get there. And I
think if you try to doeverything at once, it's often
overwhelming, and can actuallyhinder you from doing anything.
I think to make small goals isthe way to go, in my opinion. So
for those folks that might wantto become regenerative, talk to
(13:43):
me about the process and anyadditional work, or if there
isn't more work. What it lookslike so that we can inspire
others maybe to go down thisprocess?
Jason Walker: (13:55):
So the key is where somebody's starting
doesn't matter. You could bestarting with a one acre
homestead in your backyard.There might be somebody who's
like, I've got this 1000 acresof range ground. I just don't
know what to do with it. Atevery step of the way, there's a
way to start. And I think thebiggest thing is understanding
(14:16):
what the values are, either theregenerative or the organic
system. Understanding that andfiguring out, okay, well, what
are you going to be growing onthat ground? And then I think
it's understanding theprinciples of what do you want
to grow? If you're taking careof the soil, what does that
require? What do you need? Doyou need to put some compost or
some chicken manure into thesoil? Do you need to get animals
(14:38):
out there and start intensivegrazing the animals to start
building the soil profile andget more grasses, native grasses
to grow? Each area of that is alittle bit different. We do
pretty much all those across ourfarm, down to the smallest
little plot, all the way up tothousands of acres of range
ground. We have to be thinkingabout that the whole way, and
(15:01):
what animal is best to suitthat? And what crop is maybe
best to suit that, that littleacreage you have?
Justine Reichman: (15:07):
I appreciate those tips for folks, because I
think it's important to givepeople a place to start and go
from there. So I'm also thinkingabout those folks that maybe
they don't have a huge farm, butmaybe they've got an edible
garden? What would you say tothat listener that says, okay, I
have an edible garden. Clearly,I don't have a farm, but I want
(15:27):
to make it regenerative
Jason Walker: (15:28):
Again, we go back to the soil. What does it take?
Maybe you buy some earthworms inyour garden and put those in
there. Maybe you find out wherethere's some really good organic
compost. You can start makingcompost teas to spray on your
crops. I know we're talkingabout a smaller garden. But
whether you're growing a fewtomatoes, carrots and random
(15:51):
stuff for yourself, or or you'regrowing corn, it all really just
comes down to the soil. How youcan feed that soil? How you can
take care of it? Sometimes, whenyou're talking about bugs too,
maybe you're like, oh, everyyear I grow tomatoes and this
worm always eats them. Do alittle research and find out,
(16:11):
maybe that worm has an enemy. Ishouldn't say enemy, but a
competing worm that helps offsetthat. How do you grow another
plant that maybe has that thing?So diversity is huge. We see
Justine Reichman: (16:19):
Awesome. So you mentioned compost tea, and
that in farming across theboard, mono crops don't work.
You got to have some diversityin your soil. You got to have
multiple different things. Well,it's no different with a garden.
You want to have multipledifferent plants, because each
one of those feeds the soildifferently. Each one of those
(16:42):
puts nutrients into the soilthat the other plant can use. So
the more diversity, the better.Sometimes, weeds aren't all that
bad. I know they look ugly andyou can't use them. But
sometimes, there's weeds, theyare taking something out of the
sun, the air, the soil, andthey're putting it back into the
soil, and it'll help feed theother plants. So I think there's
(17:06):
a lot that people can learn whenit comes to taking care of the
soil, and what it requires tohave healthy, nutritious plants
to feed you.
that sort of excited me. I'mlike, okay, well, what's compost
tea? So I can make it and thenspray it in my garden.
Jason Walker: (17:27):
Compost tea is really easy. And sometimes, you
can even find them online. Youcan find they're like little tea
bags, and you put them in water,and you soak them. And ideally,
you circulate that water becausethe air circulating the water
helps bring out what's in thatcompost tea bag. And you can add
anything you want. Sometimes,there's just mineral
(17:48):
deficiencies in the soil, ormaybe mineral deficiencies in
where you live, the nature ofthat soil, and you can add those
into compost tea, and then youjust spray it onto your plants
and soil. And all that absorbsback in there. It feeds the
micro zoba in the soil. It feedsthe plant stems and leaves, and
(18:10):
then you can have morenutritious, better, healthier
plant.
Justine Reichman: (18:16):
I'm excited about that. I'm going to look up
some compost teas. Of course,you have one that you recommend?
Jason Walker: (18:21):
I don't have one I recommend. We do it on a
bigger scale. What we're doingis we're actually doing soil
tests. And so we test the soil,and we find out where we're
having deficiencies, and then webake that into our compost teas.
So we say, okay, hey, we needsome more magnesium in the soil.
So then, we can get a composttea that's more directed towards
magnesium, and then we justspray it out there.
Justine Reichman: (18:44):
That is super interesting. So all the food
that we get from you, you'rereally caring for that soil so
we get all the nutrients ineverything that we're eating. I
don't know that people knowthis. Or maybe they do, but I,m
really excited to be able tohave you share this information
because I think that you've madeit really tangible and easy to
(19:05):
understand, and really gives usa sense of why it's so
important. After all, if we'retrying to nourish our bodies
with things that aren'tnourished, it seems
counterproductive. So I want totalk a little bit about
inflation and productavailability, and even thinking
(19:25):
back to COVID and what thosesupply chains were like when
everything was going crazy andthere was a concerted movement
to support local farmers,ranchers and productions to
build local community, and makesure the consumer dollars were
being invested locally. Can youtalk a little bit about that?
(19:46):
What it was like for you?
Jason Walker: (19:48):
COVID was a pretty crazy moment because we
were selling a lot of meat topeople as quarters, halves and
stuff like that. But then whenCOVID hit, my wife, she's by
trade. She's been a danceteacher, puts on big productions
and stuff like that. Well, shehad to close her studio down so
(20:10):
she came on board and she tookcare of the online. She
basically built our website, didour marketing and all that. So
our sales during COVID boostedbecause everybody was like, you
said they were trying to find,how do I support my local
farmer? How do I get stuffthat's a better proximity? You
can't buy what you need at thestore, maybe. So our direct to
(20:30):
consumer took off, and that waskind of the catalyst for us
growing a lot, and doing a lotof things on our farm. And we
still haven't recovered fromthat. Not us personally, but the
farming world is not recoveredfrom COVID. There's still cattle
shortage in the US. There'sstill chicken bird issues.
(20:51):
Obviously, a lot of people hearabout that in the media. There's
a lot of things that reallyhaven't recovered from the kind
of, call it devastation we sawin COVID. Animals were getting
killed because they couldn't goto processing plants. The
processing plants were closeddown so they had to eliminate
animals. So there's been ashortage for a while, which is
made the prices increase. Andthen we've got inflation to add
(21:15):
in there too. It's aninteresting time in farming and
agriculture. I think people aremore aware of understanding.
They want to know where theirfood comes from. They kind of
want to have a little bit of aidea of how it's raised, or how
it's grown. I think the movementis steadily rising of
(21:36):
understanding. Maybe people justwant to have local food and
local produce. We do a lot ofFarmers Market's. We see a lot
of influx of new customers atthe Farmers Market's because
people just kind of want to gothere and see who's locally
producing the stuff that I buy.I'm not supporting the big
(21:56):
retail stores and gettingproducts that are sometimes
coming from overseas. It's aninteresting side note. So we are
the only regenerative organicbeef and pork in the US. We're
actually the only regenerativeorganic pork in the whole world,
as far as the ROC label. Butthere is regenerative organic
(22:17):
beef, but it all comes fromAustralia. And the crazy part
about that is, I think it'sgreat that they are doing
regenerative organic inAustralia, and I love it. But
they can actually produce thebeef and ship it. Long ways to
bring it to the US, ship itacross the ocean and get it
here, and sell it into themarket for ridiculously cheaper
(22:41):
than we can't even produce it.
Justine Reichman: (22:43):
Also interesting because you think
about cost, right? You thinkabout accessibility. There's
local, there's organic, there'sregenerative, and then you can
get all three of those things.But the point is, if you have to
make a choice because you don'thave the resources, what's the
(23:04):
best choice for us, for ourhealth and the planet? There's
so many things to consider. Whatdo you give up? There's fossil
fuel and all these things thatwe come into play, and it's a
really hard decision to decide,and I think it's a very personal
one because there's no rightanswer, yeah. You're not gonna
(23:29):
shame somebody and be like,okay, well, you can't afford it
so you don't deserve it. Is itbetter to at least have it? What
about grass fed and grassfinished? What role does that
play in this? What are yourcustomers looking for from you?
Jason Walker: (23:51):
What the big thing we found with our
customers is they're reallylooking for that certification.
And the reason they're lookingfor that certification is
because they know that we have athird party that literally comes
out to the farm and inspectseverything we do. We do soil
testing every year. We do thesethings that get verified by a
(24:12):
third party to assure peoplethat when they're buying that
product. That it's not justsomebody saying, hey, it was
grass fed. Most all of cattleare grass fed at some point in
their life. But then most ofthem end up in a feed lot, and
then they're fed grain, corn andsoy, and all this sort of stuff.
So just seeing a label that saysgrass fed isn't enough. You have
(24:37):
to be able to understand like,okay, what does that mean? What
is the next step? How is thatanimal being treated? And that's
why we get the certifications isbecause we want people to
understand that we are beingverified, that what we're doing
is right. What we're doing issupporting healthy animals and
(24:57):
crops. I don't blame people forlooking at how much stuff costs.
But what I try to tell peopleis, try to see what you can
afford. Maybe it's just yourprotein. Maybe you're like, hey,
you know what? I think the mostimportant thing is I just really
want to have good protein, soI'm going to spend a little bit
more on protein. Maybe I'm goingto buy the conventional carrots
(25:20):
and apples, or vice versa. Maybeit's like, hey, I'm going to
spend money on my produce.That's where my money goes. But
on meat, I'm going to hope thatthis label that says grass fed
is really a good farmer. We'llhope for the best. We'll trust
the store on whatever meats inthe meat counter. But I think if
at least somebody can startsupplementing their diet with
(25:43):
some things that not only helpsthe people who are doing it
right, but also maybe isn't morenutrient dense food that's going
to help keep them healthy, maybeeventually, you can get to a
point where you can put yourwhole, because I think this is
just a personal thing for me.But I think what you put in your
body affects how you're going tolive in the future, and so
(26:06):
you're either going to pay morein health care in the future, or
you're going to pay more in foodright now. So I think it depends
on what somebody's willing tomake the trade off with. And I
think it's important to makesure that you're putting good
stuff in your body to have along, healthy, prosperous life.
Justine Reichman: (26:24):
Now, I get it. I do. It's expensive to do.
But I also imagine that there'sa role. The education plays a
really big role in acquiring newcustomers, and also for your
existing customers. Talk to me alittle bit about that, because I
think it's really interesting,and I think our listeners would
benefit from a little bit ofthat.
Jason Walker: (26:45):
Yeah. I love talking about education on
farming, because here's onestatistic that I like to tell
people all the time. A lot ofpeople are scared of eating
pork, and I understand why. Sopretty much, 99% of pork raised
Justine Reichman: (27:00):
You'll hear people behind the counter say,
in the US and probablythroughout the world is all
indoors. So those animals neversee the outside. They never play
in dirt. They never root around.They never hang out a wallow.
Their whole life cycle is spentindoors, in a heated environment
with mostly GMO feeds that areput through their system. They
(27:22):
never breathe fresh air.Essentially, either they're
transported right to the harvestplant. And so understanding
that, what we do is we raisepigs outdoors. They're on dirt.
Their whole life cycle frombirth all the way till their
their one bad day is outside,and that's where pigs are
(27:42):
supposed to be. They're fun towatch. They love rooting in the
soil. They get excited when itsnows. They're out there
frolicking in the snow. And allage groups from the older moms
all the way to the brand newbabies. I mean, they love just
being outside. When you have ahealthy, happy pig that's
(28:03):
getting fed right and out in itsenvironment, you've got to think
that maybe that's going to be abetter product that's going to
go into your body. Maybe that'sgoing to be more healthy, and
maybe that's going to have theright nutrients. Because
sometimes, they root around thesoil until they chew on those
(28:25):
rocks that give them thenutrients that they want. They
understand what their bodyneeds, and they'll go find it.
And then that's the same withcattle. You got to understand
that. I don't know, 60 to 70% ofthe cattle that's in the US is
all feedlots. They're spendingall their life getting fed a
(28:46):
mixed ration of mainly grains.Cattle are meant to eat their
ruminant animal. They're meantto eat grass. And it's amazing
because these animals can takesomething that, as humans, we
can't consume. We don'teatgrass. Our stomachs aren't made
to that. They can take thatgrass, and they can produce it
(29:07):
through their body and make anutrient dense meat that we can
consume and that feeds our body.And that's what cows are
supposed to be eating. They'resupposed to be eating grass.
They're supposed to be outfrolicking on the hillsides and
eating this amazing grass thatgrows up out of the ground on
(29:28):
the hillsides naturally, andthey're living their best life.
They're eating grass andnourishing the soil. When they
poop on the soil, that nourishesthe soil, and nourishes the
microbes in the soil. So thatsystem is a natural system
that's been going on formillions of years, obviously,
(29:48):
that we've gone away from. Now,we're putting everything in
confinement, and we're feedingthem stuff that they're not
supposed to be eating. And so Ithink the education aspect of it
is super important to me.Another tangent with cattle is a
lot of people look at like, oh,look at all the marbling in this
(30:10):
meat. That's just a fat,unhealthy animal. All that
marbling is a fat, unhealthyanimal. What you really want
your beef to look like is like,if I use this is a comparison,
but a lot of people know what abuffalo, deep, dark, rich
buffalo meat would look like. Ormaybe elk. It's just pure red,
(30:31):
solid muscle. You don't seehardly any in a muscular fat in
there. And the reason is thatthing's living outside. It's
eating grass. It's eating,foraging around for stuff. It's
got nutrient dense muscles.Well, when you see a really fat
in all the inner muscular ofmeat, that's a sedentary animal.
(30:52):
That's a fat animal, that's anunhealthy animal.
oh, with the fat, it has moreflavor, or things like that. So
what's the difference in taste?
Jason Walker: (31:06):
Oh, it's definitely different. I tell
people this all the time too. Ifyou want that fatty flavor, it's
going to be a different taste.When you taste our meat, our
meat is going to be definitelymore compared to like, I say, an
elk or a bison. It's a nutrientdense meat, so you have to cook
(31:27):
it a little bit different. Weput tallow in there with our
meat. And sometimes, even lard.We get tons of pig fat, and we
make lard, and we throw that inthere. We add flavor in that
way. To add flavor into yourmeat is really easy. Butter is
amazing, an amazing fat. You canthrow that in there. When you
(31:49):
cook your meat and add thatflavor, you don't need to add
that flavor by having anunhealthy animal.
Justine Reichman: (31:56):
I totally get that, and I'm so grateful that
you shared this. Because firstof all, I feel like I just got
an education in understanding ofwhat to look for, how to buy
things, how to make the impactit's having on the animal and on
us. And bringing it all togetherso that I can make a better
choice. And that's really whatwe really aim to do here on the
(32:17):
podcast, both for innovators, aswell as people buying their own
food. So there's a term that Ithink I've seen that heritage
pork and beef rather, and I knowthat you guys that that's
something that you guys work on.Now, I want to know the
conversation we're just having,and heritage beef. Where does it
(32:38):
fall in?
Jason Walker: (32:39):
Yeah. So I think what that is, is just taking
we've got these breeds ofanimals that have been around
forever. They just know how tosurvive. They know how to
obviously reproduce. That'swhere the heritage breeds come
into play. These breeds, they'vebeen doing it right forever. A
(33:01):
lot of the commercial breedshave been cross genetics, and
what they're doing is they'retrying to breed out maybe some
of the negative things that aheritage breed would have. Maybe
the litter size isn't as big onthe pigs, or maybe they're just
Justine Reichman: (33:17):
As you're continuing on your journey here
not adapted as well beingindoors. So a lot of these
traits that these animals havealways had have been bred out to
them to make this commercialindoor feed lot type animal. And
so what we try to do is we tryto promote that these heritage
(33:38):
breeds are good, because theseare the hardy breeds. They do
well outdoors and in theirnatural environment. They don't
have issues with the sun. Theydon't have issues with, I don't
know, just even diseases.They're just more hardy, same
with the cattle side. You cansee behind me, this is a
(34:01):
Scottish Highland skull. Weraise Scottish Highland cattle.
They're the most beautiful, justfriendly, fun cattle. There's
some downsides to them. Theydon't grow as fast as, let's
say, Angus or Herefords, or someof those other breeds. But by
golly, they're beautiful to lookat. They're great mothers. The
(34:25):
meat is amazing. It's probablysome of the best, most nutrient
dense meat you can ever getmaybe alongside like, I say a
bison or elk. We try to reallyhighlight those animals that
have been around forever.They're adapted these
environments, and they've reallygot it figured out. We don't
(34:48):
want animals that die becauseit's cold outside, or can't be
out in the sun because theirskin burns. There's just certain
things that are important intaking care of--
as the third generation, andthen your son now to be the
fourth generation, what do youhope to see in terms of your
(35:11):
farm and any upcoming changes,or ways to continue on the path
that you're on? What's going tobe most important for you?
Jason Walker: (35:18):
I think the important thing is really just
continuing the education. Wereally want to be able to bring
more people to the farm and havethem experience it. We can talk
about it on social media, and wecan talk about it on podcasts.
And I think that's great. We'regoing to get better reach that.
But we just love having people.There's nothing more amazing
(35:38):
than somebody coming to the farmand just having their draw drop,
and watching the piglets out inthe field running around, or
looking at the cattle out on abig pasture, and just getting an
understanding of what it iswe're trying to do. Even walking
out in the fields and seeingthat bug life that I was talking
about earlier. And just seeingthe birds, deer and all these
(36:01):
animals that are enjoying thenatural aspect of this ground.
So I think what I really wantfor the future is I really want
to continue that tradition ofjust taking care of the soil,
taking care of the animals,bringing as much diversity as we
can into the landscape. Andreally trying to help build the
awareness out there in thecommunity of what we do, and why
(36:26):
we think it's a good thing. Andhow we can do more and more of
it. I have high aspirations.Unlike my dad who is more the
intensive look, I'm looking athow many acres can I get
converted to regenerativeorganic. How many acres can I
really support a good diverseecosystem? Put more cattle out
(36:50):
on ground that people thoughtwas, oh, you'd never be able to
raise an animal out there. It'slike, well, maybe you can. Maybe
it's just needs to be done,right? And maybe you need to
think more about the ecosystem.And it's not always the cheapest
way to do stuff. I'm not heresaying that we're making
millions of dollars trying to dothis. I think we're just making
(37:11):
a difference. And if we can makea living while we make a
difference, then that's reallyimportant.
Justine Reichman: (37:17):
I love that. That's so great. So for those
folks tuning in today, whetherby video or by podcast, where
could they go to find yourmeats?
Jason Walker: (37:26):
Yeah. Our website is starwalkerorganicfarms.com,
Justine Reichman: (37:27):
Jason, thank you so much for joining me
and you can buy meat from thewebsite. It gets delivered. We
today. This was such a greatconversation. I learned so much.
deliver all across the US, andwe also are in a lot of retail
locations. So mainly on westcoast, but we were gradually
I hope it inspired many others.
expanding our reach, and we'regetting into other retail
(37:48):
locations. We're also on Amazon,so people can find our jerkies
on Amazon. And eventually,probably more of our meat
products. We also are on all thesocial medias, Instagrams,
Facebooks and TikTok. And wehave a YouTube channel, I think
it's called Beyond The Gate.
Jason Walker: (38:18):
Thank you, Justine. It was fun, and I
enjoyed talking about all thisstuff all the time.
Justine Reichman: (38:23):
I want to thank our community who tunes in
each week for our episodes withour featured Founders,
researchers and innovators, andfor those new folks that are
here today, don't forget,whether you listen to us on your
podcast or on the videocast, Iwant to make sure that you have
all channels to reach out ourpodcast to follow up for new
(38:43):
episodes and see what's comingin the pipeline. You can follow
us at essential.ingredients onInstagram. And if you're
listening to the podcast, don'tforget to like and share. It's
important to share with friends.The greatest gift you can give
them is to share information andeducation so they too can make
more important choices. Thanksso much.
Good morning. I'm your host, Justine, here on
(00:18):
the Essential IngredientsPodcast, and I'm excited to
welcome you here again. Welcometo the loyal listeners. Welcome
to the new listeners andviewers. It's so great to have
you be part of the community.I'd like to introduce you to the
guest that we are going to havetoday, because I am excited to
chat with him. His name is JasonWalker. He is a 3rd Generation
(00:38):
Farmer and a Co-Founder ofStarWalker Organic Farms, join
us as we explore buildingcommunity and transforming a
business to last the test oftime. So you're not going to
want to miss this. Stay tuned.Good morning, Jason. How are you
this morning?
Jason Walker: (00:52):
I'm doing great. How are you?
Justine Reichman: (00:54):
Good. I'm so excited to have you here and
learn all about your farm,StarWalker. If you're tuning in
on videocast--
Jason Walker: (01:05):
I'm well represented.
Justine Reichman: (01:07):
You are representing. 100%, you are
representing So Jason, I'm soexcited. I know this is a multi
generational farm, and you guysstarted back in the 80s, and
things have changed now. I wouldjust love to hear a little bit
about the backstory, and whatthe inspiration was behind
starting the farm initially inthe 80s.
Jason Walker: (01:27):
Yeah, it's a 3rd Generation. I'm third
generation. My son will befourth generation. And my
grandparents originallypurchased the farm back in the
early 70s, and I think theiroriginal intention was just
maybe an investment property. Mygrandpa was originally a
dentist, and I think he didwell. He was down in the Bay
Area, and I think he did well,and they bought his investment.
(01:47):
And then I think he startedspending a lot of time up on the
farm, and kind of really likedit. So then, eventually my
parents came along, and theyended up taking over the ranch
and kind of carrying on thatlegacy that my grandpa started.
I think it was the early, maybethe late 70s. My parents were
(02:11):
approached by a bunch ofsalesmen and Chemical Guys, and
they were, oh, you've got to usethis. The only way you're going
to have a crop is you have this.They just felt like there was a
better way. They'd been doing itfor enough years. They're like,
we're not using this stuff. Whyare we being forced to use it?
So that was when they jumpedinto the organic world, and so
(02:31):
we've been organic for almost 45years, I think, if I remember
correctly.
Justine Reichman: (02:37):
That's very forward thinking and advanced.
That's around 1977 ish, so late70s. I feel like my mom was a
very big adopter trying to getorganics when I was growing up,
but I didn't feel like it wasmainstream. I don't even think
we knew enough to make sure thata farm was organic.
Jason Walker: (03:00):
Yeah. And mostly it was smaller niche like mom
and pop, or naturopathic typeplaces would have a lot of
organic stuff. But it didn'treally catch mainstream until, I
think you got into more of thelate 80s, and the bigger retail
stores started carrying organic.And so I think it's been a slow
grind. But basically, the nutsand bolts behind it are just
(03:24):
basically growing food and doingstuff like they used to 40, 50,
100 years ago. Because really,what it's about is it's just
really about taking care of thethe soil. You take care of the
soil, you take care of theanimals. And if you have healthy
animals and you're eating themeat, then you're going to be
healthy. It's no different withvegetables, fruits or whatever.
(03:45):
You take care of the soil,you're going to have a healthy
product that people are going toput in their bodies, and then
they're going to be healthy.That's all I've known my whole
life. I did take a little stintaway from farming. I left, and I
was a general contractor forabout 15 years, probably about
19, mid 30s or something likethat. But I always knew I wanted
(04:09):
to come back to the farm. It wasdefinitely a little bit of a
hidden passion for me. I lovedit growing up. So even when I
was away, I would always thinkabout it. And then my parents
were ready to either pass thetorch on, or sell, or do
something. And so we came backand took over the farm, and
(04:30):
we've expanded and grown. We'vedone quite a few things in the
last 15 years. Or it's been lessthan that 12 years since we've
been back?
Justine Reichman: (04:39):
Years ago about when you guys went
regenerative, or did you guys goregenerative, or just organic?
Jason Walker: (04:44):
The regenerative thing is been like the past two
years. So when regenerativeorganic came around, were seeing
and kind of talks about it. Itwas like more certifications.
We're like, do we want to domore certifications? We've been
organic forever. We've got GAPCertification, which is animal
welfare. We've got like five orsix different with the real
(05:08):
organic. We got all thesethings, and we're like, do we
want to do this regenerativeorganic? And then we saw the
people that were behind it, themovement, and then we started
realizing what it was about.Even though we were doing these
practices for the past 40 plusyears, we were like, hey, having
that extra assurity to thecustomers that are buying our
stuff that we're doing it right,we've been doing it right for a
(05:30):
long time. So we decided to getthe regenerative organic
certification. Think it's abouttwo years now that we've been
regenerative organic certified.I think that's it's just another
step in the right direction ofgiving people the surety that
they're buying products thatare, the animals are taken care
of, soils taken care of, andthey're going to be nutritious,
(05:51):
dense products that people aregoing to love.
Justine Reichman: (05:55):
I think it's so important. And I think
there's a lot of education thatwe're exploring now to better
understand the impact ofregenerative, both on our health
and welfare, as well as theplanet. And I think that the
more people understand theimpact it has on them, the more
we're going to get people onboard to support this, to live
(06:16):
this way, to buy this way. Andthe more people that are living,
buying and growing in this way,the more it will expand. And
then hopefully, we'll see animpact on people's health, all
sorts of things. So before youwere running this, your parents
were running this, and it soundslike if we're talking 40 years
(06:38):
ago, was that them deciding togo organic? Or was that your
grandparents?
Jason Walker: (06:43):
It was them. My grandpa was in goof off mood. He
was building cabins and workingon cutting wood and stuff. So my
parents were really the drivingforce behind the ranch. They
took it over knowing that theywere going to be operating it,
and it was going to be kind oftheir baby. I think my parents
(07:05):
are old hippies. They went toschool. The crazy part is they
both have master's degrees, andI don't think they ever intended
to be on a farm. But I thinkthey brought a lot of their
experience in college, and theyknew that having a healthy farm,
healthy soil, healthy animalswas important. And so I think
(07:28):
that when they found the organicmovement, I think they were just
full in, we used to do all sortsof stuff. We used to do organic
potatoes. We used to do organiccorn. We go out when I was a kid
and early adolescence, we go outand shut corn at 6:00 in the
morning. And before I'd go toschool, my dad would run around
to all the local stores and dropoff big totes of sweet corn. I
(07:50):
mean, we did herbs and spices,we've done all sorts of stuff.
My dad was big on intensivefarming and not an expansive
farming.
Justine Reichman: (08:01):
So what values or ethos did they have
that you really feel you broughtthrough to today? Obviously,
things change. You're changingwith the times, and it sounds
like doing the regenerativeagriculture is important to you,
and I'd love to dig into whythat's important to you. I think
we touched on it about health,wellness and the planet. But
(08:24):
really, I'd love to hear alittle bit more about the impact
you hope it has.
Jason Walker: (08:27):
Yeah, yeah. Going back to my parents, they were
hard workers. My mom, I thinkshe was like, I remember with my
brother because my brother's 10years younger than me. I mean,
she'd be out there on thetractor raking hay, eight months
pregnant. People would alwaysjust be like, they go by and
(08:48):
double take and no cab tractor.She's just out there, freezing
cold mornings. Both of them,they were always working. And
they just loved what they did,and they thought it was
important. And I think thosevalues really stuck with me.
Even now, my parents arebasically retired. They go
(09:09):
camping and do all the funstuff, which is what I want them
to do. I want them to enjoy.They worked a lot of, a lot of
hard years. I'm still so youngand vibrant, so I definitely
want to be the workhorse now.But I think that work ethic is
huge. I mean, that's what I loveto do. Quite honestly, if I'm
outside doing anything is a goodday for me. Sometimes when it's
(09:31):
bitter cold, it's not super fun,but I still enjoy it. The
animals are fun and so and Ilike the whole process. We
talked about the regenerativeaspect of it is I like seeing
the soil. I like seeing all thebugs, all the birds, all the
stuff that's in the soil thatmost people don't realize. And
(09:56):
chemical agriculture, orconventional agriculture,
whatever you want to call it,all that stuff dies. I mean,
literally, just gets nuked yearin and year out. So all those
bugs, you don't get to see them.I go out in some of my fields,
and it's almost like a littlescary. You're like, wow, why is
there so many bugs and stuffgoing on here? But the crops
(10:16):
growing, the crops healthy. Ithink that the diversity in the
ecosystem is what makes itimportant, and everybody
supports everybody. Andsometimes, there's weeds in a
field that have the nutrientsthat help support the crop that
I want to grow. It's just agreat symbiotic relationship,
and it's really fun to watch.
Justine Reichman: (10:36):
If you were talking to me, and I'm a
listener tuning in today, whatcould you tell me that would
resonate with me? Not as afarmer, but as an individual
that really wants to understandwhy this is a good thing, and
why I want to buy regenerativefrom a regenerative farm.
Jason Walker: (10:54):
Soil is a living thing. There's so much going on
in soil. And if you don't feedthat soil, no different than us,
we've gotta feed our bodies. Butif you don't feed that soil good
stuff, and if you're taking careof that whole ecosystem, all the
(11:15):
little bugs and worms and allthat stuff that's in the soil,
that all is what makes healthyplants. And if you don't have
that going on in the soil, ifyour soil is dead, I say nuked.
I'm not trying to giveconventional agriculture a hard
time, but I'm also just kind oftrying to say that if you're not
(11:39):
nourishing that soil, thenyou're not going to grow good
crops. If you don't grow goodcrops, you're not going to feed
the animals. You're not going tofeed people. What it goes back
to is just taking care of theessential thing in our soil, and
we're also losing farm groundlike crazy, cities and
(12:00):
everything. So I think whenpeople think they go to the
store, they look at the labels,or they're thinking about what
they're purchasing, thingsthey're going to do, they have
to understand that the peoplethat are taking care of the soil
are the ones that you want tosupport. Because if we don't,
we're not going to have thesoil, we're not going to have
the nutrient density. We're notgoing to have healthy animals.
(12:23):
And I know it's it seemsdaunting because there's so much
production in the US, and weproduce a lot of food and
animals. I can't expecteverybody tomorrow to turn, but
what I can do is put the messageout there. Every small step that
somebody can do, and it startsat the consumer. If the consumer
(12:43):
is buying regenerative ororganic products, the people who
are making or farming, they'regoing to see that. They're going
to understand that there's atrend in that direction, and
they're going to have to makethose small changes on their
farm, whether it's maybe usingless chemicals or using cover
crops. Or doing something tohelp take care of the soil.
(13:05):
That's where the money is.They're going to follow it. So
the more people, consumers wecan think that are thinking in
that direction, the more farmersare going to follow suit. It
might take 10, 20, 30, 40 years,but we got to start somewhere.
Justine Reichman: (13:19):
I totally agree, and I believe in baby
steps. I think that that's thebest way to get there. And I
think if you try to doeverything at once, it's often
overwhelming, and can actuallyhinder you from doing anything.
I think to make small goals isthe way to go, in my opinion. So
for those folks that might wantto become regenerative, talk to
(13:43):
me about the process and anyadditional work, or if there
isn't more work. What it lookslike so that we can inspire
others maybe to go down thisprocess?
Jason Walker: (13:55):
So the key is where somebody's starting
doesn't matter. You could bestarting with a one acre
homestead in your backyard.There might be somebody who's
like, I've got this 1000 acresof range ground. I just don't
know what to do with it. Atevery step of the way, there's a
way to start. And I think thebiggest thing is understanding
(14:16):
what the values are, either theregenerative or the organic
system. Understanding that andfiguring out, okay, well, what
are you going to be growing onthat ground? And then I think
it's understanding theprinciples of what do you want
to grow? If you're taking careof the soil, what does that
require? What do you need? Doyou need to put some compost or
some chicken manure into thesoil? Do you need to get animals
(14:38):
out there and start intensivegrazing the animals to start
building the soil profile andget more grasses, native grasses
to grow? Each area of that is alittle bit different. We do
pretty much all those across ourfarm, down to the smallest
little plot, all the way up tothousands of acres of range
ground. We have to be thinkingabout that the whole way, and
(15:01):
what animal is best to suitthat? And what crop is maybe
best to suit that, that littleacreage you have?
Justine Reichman: (15:07):
I appreciate those tips for folks, because I
think it's important to givepeople a place to start and go
from there. So I'm also thinkingabout those folks that maybe
they don't have a huge farm, butmaybe they've got an edible
garden? What would you say tothat listener that says, okay, I
have an edible garden. Clearly,I don't have a farm, but I want
(15:27):
to make it regenerative
Jason Walker: (15:28):
Again, we go back to the soil. What does it take?
Maybe you buy some earthworms inyour garden and put those in
there. Maybe you find out wherethere's some really good organic
compost. You can start makingcompost teas to spray on your
crops. I know we're talkingabout a smaller garden. But
whether you're growing a fewtomatoes, carrots and random
(15:51):
stuff for yourself, or or you'regrowing corn, it all really just
comes down to the soil. How youcan feed that soil? How you can
take care of it? Sometimes, whenyou're talking about bugs too,
maybe you're like, oh, everyyear I grow tomatoes and this
worm always eats them. Do alittle research and find out,
(16:11):
maybe that worm has an enemy. Ishouldn't say enemy, but a
competing worm that helps offsetthat. How do you grow another
plant that maybe has that thing?So diversity is huge. We see
Justine Reichman: (16:19):
Awesome. So you mentioned compost tea, and
that in farming across theboard, mono crops don't work.
You got to have some diversityin your soil. You got to have
multiple different things. Well,it's no different with a garden.
You want to have multipledifferent plants, because each
one of those feeds the soildifferently. Each one of those
(16:42):
puts nutrients into the soilthat the other plant can use. So
the more diversity, the better.Sometimes, weeds aren't all that
bad. I know they look ugly andyou can't use them. But
sometimes, there's weeds, theyare taking something out of the
sun, the air, the soil, andthey're putting it back into the
soil, and it'll help feed theother plants. So I think there's
(17:06):
a lot that people can learn whenit comes to taking care of the
soil, and what it requires tohave healthy, nutritious plants
to feed you.
that sort of excited me. I'mlike, okay, well, what's compost
tea? So I can make it and thenspray it in my garden.
Jason Walker: (17:27):
Compost tea is really easy. And sometimes, you
can even find them online. Youcan find they're like little tea
bags, and you put them in water,and you soak them. And ideally,
you circulate that water becausethe air circulating the water
helps bring out what's in thatcompost tea bag. And you can add
anything you want. Sometimes,there's just mineral
(17:48):
deficiencies in the soil, ormaybe mineral deficiencies in
where you live, the nature ofthat soil, and you can add those
into compost tea, and then youjust spray it onto your plants
and soil. And all that absorbsback in there. It feeds the
micro zoba in the soil. It feedsthe plant stems and leaves, and
(18:10):
then you can have morenutritious, better, healthier
plant.
Justine Reichman: (18:16):
I'm excited about that. I'm going to look up
some compost teas. Of course,you have one that you recommend?
Jason Walker: (18:21):
I don't have one I recommend. We do it on a
bigger scale. What we're doingis we're actually doing soil
tests. And so we test the soil,and we find out where we're
having deficiencies, and then webake that into our compost teas.
So we say, okay, hey, we needsome more magnesium in the soil.
So then, we can get a composttea that's more directed towards
magnesium, and then we justspray it out there.
Justine Reichman: (18:44):
That is super interesting. So all the food
that we get from you, you'rereally caring for that soil so
we get all the nutrients ineverything that we're eating. I
don't know that people knowthis. Or maybe they do, but I,m
really excited to be able tohave you share this information
because I think that you've madeit really tangible and easy to
(19:05):
understand, and really gives usa sense of why it's so
important. After all, if we'retrying to nourish our bodies
with things that aren'tnourished, it seems
counterproductive. So I want totalk a little bit about
inflation and productavailability, and even thinking
(19:25):
back to COVID and what thosesupply chains were like when
everything was going crazy andthere was a concerted movement
to support local farmers,ranchers and productions to
build local community, and makesure the consumer dollars were
being invested locally. Can youtalk a little bit about that?
(19:46):
What it was like for you?
Jason Walker: (19:48):
COVID was a pretty crazy moment because we
were selling a lot of meat topeople as quarters, halves and
stuff like that. But then whenCOVID hit, my wife, she's by
trade. She's been a danceteacher, puts on big productions
and stuff like that. Well, shehad to close her studio down so
(20:10):
she came on board and she tookcare of the online. She
basically built our website, didour marketing and all that. So
our sales during COVID boostedbecause everybody was like, you
said they were trying to find,how do I support my local
farmer? How do I get stuffthat's a better proximity? You
can't buy what you need at thestore, maybe. So our direct to
(20:30):
consumer took off, and that waskind of the catalyst for us
growing a lot, and doing a lotof things on our farm. And we
still haven't recovered fromthat. Not us personally, but the
farming world is not recoveredfrom COVID. There's still cattle
shortage in the US. There'sstill chicken bird issues.
(20:51):
Obviously, a lot of people hearabout that in the media. There's
a lot of things that reallyhaven't recovered from the kind
of, call it devastation we sawin COVID. Animals were getting
killed because they couldn't goto processing plants. The
processing plants were closeddown so they had to eliminate
animals. So there's been ashortage for a while, which is
made the prices increase. Andthen we've got inflation to add
(21:15):
in there too. It's aninteresting time in farming and
agriculture. I think people aremore aware of understanding.
They want to know where theirfood comes from. They kind of
want to have a little bit of aidea of how it's raised, or how
it's grown. I think the movementis steadily rising of
(21:36):
understanding. Maybe people justwant to have local food and
local produce. We do a lot ofFarmers Market's. We see a lot
of influx of new customers atthe Farmers Market's because
people just kind of want to gothere and see who's locally
producing the stuff that I buy.I'm not supporting the big
(21:56):
retail stores and gettingproducts that are sometimes
coming from overseas. It's aninteresting side note. So we are
the only regenerative organicbeef and pork in the US. We're
actually the only regenerativeorganic pork in the whole world,
as far as the ROC label. Butthere is regenerative organic
(22:17):
beef, but it all comes fromAustralia. And the crazy part
about that is, I think it'sgreat that they are doing
regenerative organic inAustralia, and I love it. But
they can actually produce thebeef and ship it. Long ways to
bring it to the US, ship itacross the ocean and get it
here, and sell it into themarket for ridiculously cheaper
(22:41):
than we can't even produce it.
Justine Reichman: (22:43):
Also interesting because you think
about cost, right? You thinkabout accessibility. There's
local, there's organic, there'sregenerative, and then you can
get all three of those things.But the point is, if you have to
make a choice because you don'thave the resources, what's the
(23:04):
best choice for us, for ourhealth and the planet? There's
so many things to consider. Whatdo you give up? There's fossil
fuel and all these things thatwe come into play, and it's a
really hard decision to decide,and I think it's a very personal
one because there's no rightanswer, yeah. You're not gonna
(23:29):
shame somebody and be like,okay, well, you can't afford it
so you don't deserve it. Is itbetter to at least have it? What
about grass fed and grassfinished? What role does that
play in this? What are yourcustomers looking for from you?
Jason Walker: (23:51):
What the big thing we found with our
customers is they're reallylooking for that certification.
And the reason they're lookingfor that certification is
because they know that we have athird party that literally comes
out to the farm and inspectseverything we do. We do soil
testing every year. We do thesethings that get verified by a
(24:12):
third party to assure peoplethat when they're buying that
product. That it's not justsomebody saying, hey, it was
grass fed. Most all of cattleare grass fed at some point in
their life. But then most ofthem end up in a feed lot, and
then they're fed grain, corn andsoy, and all this sort of stuff.
So just seeing a label that saysgrass fed isn't enough. You have
(24:37):
to be able to understand like,okay, what does that mean? What
is the next step? How is thatanimal being treated? And that's
why we get the certifications isbecause we want people to
understand that we are beingverified, that what we're doing
is right. What we're doing issupporting healthy animals and
(24:57):
crops. I don't blame people forlooking at how much stuff costs.
But what I try to tell peopleis, try to see what you can
afford. Maybe it's just yourprotein. Maybe you're like, hey,
you know what? I think the mostimportant thing is I just really
want to have good protein, soI'm going to spend a little bit
more on protein. Maybe I'm goingto buy the conventional carrots
(25:20):
and apples, or vice versa. Maybeit's like, hey, I'm going to
spend money on my produce.That's where my money goes. But
on meat, I'm going to hope thatthis label that says grass fed
is really a good farmer. We'llhope for the best. We'll trust
the store on whatever meats inthe meat counter. But I think if
at least somebody can startsupplementing their diet with
(25:43):
some things that not only helpsthe people who are doing it
right, but also maybe isn't morenutrient dense food that's going
to help keep them healthy, maybeeventually, you can get to a
point where you can put yourwhole, because I think this is
just a personal thing for me.But I think what you put in your
body affects how you're going tolive in the future, and so
(26:06):
you're either going to pay morein health care in the future, or
you're going to pay more in foodright now. So I think it depends
on what somebody's willing tomake the trade off with. And I
think it's important to makesure that you're putting good
stuff in your body to have along, healthy, prosperous life.
Justine Reichman: (26:24):
Now, I get it. I do. It's expensive to do.
But I also imagine that there'sa role. The education plays a
really big role in acquiring newcustomers, and also for your
existing customers. Talk to me alittle bit about that, because I
think it's really interesting,and I think our listeners would
benefit from a little bit ofthat.
Jason Walker: (26:45):
Yeah. I love talking about education on
farming, because here's onestatistic that I like to tell
people all the time. A lot ofpeople are scared of eating
pork, and I understand why. Sopretty much, 99% of pork raised
Justine Reichman: (27:00):
You'll hear people behind the counter say,
in the US and probablythroughout the world is all
indoors. So those animals neversee the outside. They never play
in dirt. They never root around.They never hang out a wallow.
Their whole life cycle is spentindoors, in a heated environment
with mostly GMO feeds that areput through their system. They
(27:22):
never breathe fresh air.Essentially, either they're
transported right to the harvestplant. And so understanding
that, what we do is we raisepigs outdoors. They're on dirt.
Their whole life cycle frombirth all the way till their
their one bad day is outside,and that's where pigs are
(27:42):
supposed to be. They're fun towatch. They love rooting in the
soil. They get excited when itsnows. They're out there
frolicking in the snow. And allage groups from the older moms
all the way to the brand newbabies. I mean, they love just
being outside. When you have ahealthy, happy pig that's
(28:03):
getting fed right and out in itsenvironment, you've got to think
that maybe that's going to be abetter product that's going to
go into your body. Maybe that'sgoing to be more healthy, and
maybe that's going to have theright nutrients. Because
sometimes, they root around thesoil until they chew on those
(28:25):
rocks that give them thenutrients that they want. They
understand what their bodyneeds, and they'll go find it.
And then that's the same withcattle. You got to understand
that. I don't know, 60 to 70% ofthe cattle that's in the US is
all feedlots. They're spendingall their life getting fed a
(28:46):
mixed ration of mainly grains.Cattle are meant to eat their
ruminant animal. They're meantto eat grass. And it's amazing
because these animals can takesomething that, as humans, we
can't consume. We don'teatgrass. Our stomachs aren't made
to that. They can take thatgrass, and they can produce it
(29:07):
through their body and make anutrient dense meat that we can
consume and that feeds our body.And that's what cows are
supposed to be eating. They'resupposed to be eating grass.
They're supposed to be outfrolicking on the hillsides and
eating this amazing grass thatgrows up out of the ground on
(29:28):
the hillsides naturally, andthey're living their best life.
They're eating grass andnourishing the soil. When they
poop on the soil, that nourishesthe soil, and nourishes the
microbes in the soil. So thatsystem is a natural system
that's been going on formillions of years, obviously,
(29:48):
that we've gone away from. Now,we're putting everything in
confinement, and we're feedingthem stuff that they're not
supposed to be eating. And so Ithink the education aspect of it
is super important to me.Another tangent with cattle is a
lot of people look at like, oh,look at all the marbling in this
(30:10):
meat. That's just a fat,unhealthy animal. All that
marbling is a fat, unhealthyanimal. What you really want
your beef to look like is like,if I use this is a comparison,
but a lot of people know what abuffalo, deep, dark, rich
buffalo meat would look like. Ormaybe elk. It's just pure red,
(30:31):
solid muscle. You don't seehardly any in a muscular fat in
there. And the reason is thatthing's living outside. It's
eating grass. It's eating,foraging around for stuff. It's
got nutrient dense muscles.Well, when you see a really fat
in all the inner muscular ofmeat, that's a sedentary animal.
(30:52):
That's a fat animal, that's anunhealthy animal.
oh, with the fat, it has moreflavor, or things like that. So
what's the difference in taste?
Jason Walker: (31:06):
Oh, it's definitely different. I tell
people this all the time too. Ifyou want that fatty flavor, it's
going to be a different taste.When you taste our meat, our
meat is going to be definitelymore compared to like, I say, an
elk or a bison. It's a nutrientdense meat, so you have to cook
(31:27):
it a little bit different. Weput tallow in there with our
meat. And sometimes, even lard.We get tons of pig fat, and we
make lard, and we throw that inthere. We add flavor in that
way. To add flavor into yourmeat is really easy. Butter is
amazing, an amazing fat. You canthrow that in there. When you
(31:49):
cook your meat and add thatflavor, you don't need to add
that flavor by having anunhealthy animal.
Justine Reichman: (31:56):
I totally get that, and I'm so grateful that
you shared this. Because firstof all, I feel like I just got
an education in understanding ofwhat to look for, how to buy
things, how to make the impactit's having on the animal and on
us. And bringing it all togetherso that I can make a better
choice. And that's really whatwe really aim to do here on the
(32:17):
podcast, both for innovators, aswell as people buying their own
food. So there's a term that Ithink I've seen that heritage
pork and beef rather, and I knowthat you guys that that's
something that you guys work on.Now, I want to know the
conversation we're just having,and heritage beef. Where does it
(32:38):
fall in?
Jason Walker: (32:39):
Yeah. So I think what that is, is just taking
we've got these breeds ofanimals that have been around
forever. They just know how tosurvive. They know how to
obviously reproduce. That'swhere the heritage breeds come
into play. These breeds, they'vebeen doing it right forever. A
(33:01):
lot of the commercial breedshave been cross genetics, and
what they're doing is they'retrying to breed out maybe some
of the negative things that aheritage breed would have. Maybe
the litter size isn't as big onthe pigs, or maybe they're just
Justine Reichman: (33:17):
As you're continuing on your journey here
not adapted as well beingindoors. So a lot of these
traits that these animals havealways had have been bred out to
them to make this commercialindoor feed lot type animal. And
so what we try to do is we tryto promote that these heritage
(33:38):
breeds are good, because theseare the hardy breeds. They do
well outdoors and in theirnatural environment. They don't
have issues with the sun. Theydon't have issues with, I don't
know, just even diseases.They're just more hardy, same
with the cattle side. You cansee behind me, this is a
(34:01):
Scottish Highland skull. Weraise Scottish Highland cattle.
They're the most beautiful, justfriendly, fun cattle. There's
some downsides to them. Theydon't grow as fast as, let's
say, Angus or Herefords, or someof those other breeds. But by
golly, they're beautiful to lookat. They're great mothers. The
(34:25):
meat is amazing. It's probablysome of the best, most nutrient
dense meat you can ever getmaybe alongside like, I say a
bison or elk. We try to reallyhighlight those animals that
have been around forever.They're adapted these
environments, and they've reallygot it figured out. We don't
(34:48):
want animals that die becauseit's cold outside, or can't be
out in the sun because theirskin burns. There's just certain
things that are important intaking care of--
as the third generation, andthen your son now to be the
fourth generation, what do youhope to see in terms of your
(35:11):
farm and any upcoming changes,or ways to continue on the path
that you're on? What's going tobe most important for you?
Jason Walker: (35:18):
I think the important thing is really just
continuing the education. Wereally want to be able to bring
more people to the farm and havethem experience it. We can talk
about it on social media, and wecan talk about it on podcasts.
And I think that's great. We'regoing to get better reach that.
But we just love having people.There's nothing more amazing
(35:38):
than somebody coming to the farmand just having their draw drop,
and watching the piglets out inthe field running around, or
looking at the cattle out on abig pasture, and just getting an
understanding of what it iswe're trying to do. Even walking
out in the fields and seeingthat bug life that I was talking
about earlier. And just seeingthe birds, deer and all these
(36:01):
animals that are enjoying thenatural aspect of this ground.
So I think what I really wantfor the future is I really want
to continue that tradition ofjust taking care of the soil,
taking care of the animals,bringing as much diversity as we
can into the landscape. Andreally trying to help build the
awareness out there in thecommunity of what we do, and why
(36:26):
we think it's a good thing. Andhow we can do more and more of
it. I have high aspirations.Unlike my dad who is more the
intensive look, I'm looking athow many acres can I get
converted to regenerativeorganic. How many acres can I
really support a good diverseecosystem? Put more cattle out
(36:50):
on ground that people thoughtwas, oh, you'd never be able to
raise an animal out there. It'slike, well, maybe you can. Maybe
it's just needs to be done,right? And maybe you need to
think more about the ecosystem.And it's not always the cheapest
way to do stuff. I'm not heresaying that we're making
millions of dollars trying to dothis. I think we're just making
(37:11):
a difference. And if we can makea living while we make a
difference, then that's reallyimportant.
Justine Reichman: (37:17):
I love that. That's so great. So for those
folks tuning in today, whetherby video or by podcast, where
could they go to find yourmeats?
Jason Walker: (37:26):
Yeah. Our website is starwalkerorganicfarms.com,
Justine Reichman: (37:27):
Jason, thank you so much for joining me
and you can buy meat from thewebsite. It gets delivered. We
today. This was such a greatconversation. I learned so much.
deliver all across the US, andwe also are in a lot of retail
locations. So mainly on westcoast, but we were gradually
I hope it inspired many others.
expanding our reach, and we'regetting into other retail
(37:48):
locations. We're also on Amazon,so people can find our jerkies
on Amazon. And eventually,probably more of our meat
products. We also are on all thesocial medias, Instagrams,
Facebooks and TikTok. And wehave a YouTube channel, I think
it's called Beyond The Gate.
Jason Walker: (38:18):
Thank you, Justine. It was fun, and I
enjoyed talking about all thisstuff all the time.
Justine Reichman: (38:23):
I want to thank our community who tunes in
each week for our episodes withour featured Founders,
researchers and innovators, andfor those new folks that are
here today, don't forget,whether you listen to us on your
podcast or on the videocast, Iwant to make sure that you have
all channels to reach out ourpodcast to follow up for new
(38:43):
episodes and see what's comingin the pipeline. You can follow
us at essential.ingredients onInstagram. And if you're
listening to the podcast, don'tforget to like and share. It's
important to share with friends.The greatest gift you can give
them is to share information andeducation so they too can make
more important choices. Thanksso much.
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