“In the old days, families worked together, like on a farm, and that's the model we wanted to create for ourselves at EO Products.” —Brad Black
Most businesses die because they chase profits instead of purpose—a raw, honest truth that cuts to the core of entrepreneurial burnout and lost passion. A lot of entrepreneurs pour their hearts and soul into a business, only to become a slave to spreadsheets and profit margins. But what if there was another way?
Brad and Susan Black, co-founders of EO Products, are pioneering entrepreneurs who transformed a passionate curiosity about essential oils into a 30-year sustainable business empire. With backgrounds spanning fashion, product design, and holistic wellness, they've built a company that seamlessly integrates purpose, profitability, and principled leadership.
Tune in as Justine, Susan, and Brad reveal how shared values, resilience through personal challenges, commitment to sustainable practices, and a radical approach to business can create a brand that transcends traditional profit-making models while inspiring meaningful change.
Meet Susan and Brad:
Susan Griffin-Black is a visionary product designer and co-founder of EO Products, with a background in fashion and a passion for natural wellness. After a transformative experience in a London apothecary, she studied aromatherapy and cosmetic chemistry, becoming an expert in essential oils. Her innovative approach to product development and commitment to transparency has been instrumental in shaping the natural personal care industry.
Brad Black, a former clothing manufacturer, brings extensive production expertise and a strong commitment to sustainable business practices to EO Products. With a background in recycled fabrics and ethical manufacturing, he has been crucial in developing the company's operational strategy. His focus on responsible decision-making and community-driven business models has been key to the company's success.
In 1995, Susan and Brad co-founded EO Products, leveraging their complementary skills and shared values to create a pioneering natural personal care brand. Starting with four blends for the Bloomingdale's catalog, they built a company dedicated to using pure essential oils, sustainable packaging, and transparent manufacturing. Their partnership, rooted in mutual respect and a vision for better-for-you products, has sustained EO Products through 30 years of growth and innovation in the natural products market.
Connect with NextGen Purpose:
Episode Highlights:
01:02 Partners in Purpose: Brad and Susan’s Journey to a Values-Driven Business
05:38 The No Margin, No Mission Business Philosophy
08:57 The Heart of EO: Transparency, Authenticity, Community, Communication
13:18 Advice for New Entrepreneurs
17:18 The Business of Receiving
22:20 Sustainability Challenges
28:34 Mindfulness in Business and Life
37:34 Better is Better
43:33 Creating a Meaningful Business Legacy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Justine Reichman: (00:00):
Good morning, and welcome to Essential
(00:14):
Ingredients. I'm Justine, yourhost. I'm excited today to share
with you a very special episode.What makes this special is not
only did we talk to theCo-Founders, we were in person
and behind the scenes. You'renot going to want to miss this,
so stay tuned. Hi guys, thanksso much for joining me today.
Susan Griffin-Black: (00:31):
We're just so happy to be here. Thank you.
Brad Black: (00:34):
Thank you as well.
Justine Reichman: (00:35):
Yeah. So for those folks that are tuning in
today and can watch, we're hereat EO with Brad and Susan. I'm
going to learn all aboutessential oils, because I'm
guessing that that's what EOstands for.
Susan Griffin-Black: (00:44):
It does.
Justine Reichman: (00:46):
You guys have been around for 30 years, that's
a long time. Well done. So how'dyou guys get together to start
this company together?
Susan Griffin-Black: (01:00):
I think Brad and I met in 1989? Is that
where I have that note from you?
Brad Black: (01:11):
I was manufacturing clothes at the time, and Susan
came into my warehouse in Juneof 1988, and I wrote her a thank
you letter for coming over. Andthen she kept it.
Susan Griffin-Black: (01:33):
So we were shopping for my boyfriend at the
time. I was going on a scavengerhunt around the world, and he
worked at a spree. And Maniac,Brad's company, offered to give
him to wardrobe him for hisscavenger hunt adventure. And
that's how we met.
Justine Reichman: (01:53):
And what did you go in there to do?
Susan Griffin-Black: (01:55):
Well, I was a stylist.
Justine Reichman: (01:59):
How do we go from stylist and fashion to
essential oils?
Susan Griffin-Black: (02:05):
Well, I've been a product person forever. I
was a clothing designer in mypast life, and then I was
looking for a change. I was inLondon and found this little
shop Apothecary, and walked inthe door, and the smell was so
(02:26):
honest and unusual. I had like aflashback to my grandma's
garden, lilacs and fireflies,and tomatoes. But It was
actually lavender that Ismelled, and I was so
interested, curious andintrigued about essential oils.
(02:50):
That just sort of took me rightin. And then I was like, I knew
what I wanted to study and learnmore about. And then the other
part of it was Brad's and myoffices were in the same
building, and we were friendsfor years. We dated for a while,
and then we got married, andthen we got divorced, sort of
(03:12):
trajectory. And now, we'refamily and business partners for
all this time, right? But Ithink essentially, we've always
had the same drive, ambition,values, and wanted to create a
company that we wanted to workfor.
Justine Reichman: (03:30):
That's amazing. And the whole
trajectory is just amazing. Fromfriends to family, to the whole
thing and still workingtogether. Because working with
family can be hard. I workedwith my mom, that was a
challenge. It looks like it'sworked out really, really well
30 years later. So you went intothis Apothecary, and you were
(03:52):
inspired to create somethingalong these lines?
Susan Griffin-Black: (03:55):
Yes. And so started studying
aromatherapy, took a crashcourse in cosmetic chemistry.
Brad was winding down hisclothing company, but the thing
that Brad really brought to theparty was he was already
manufacturing products. Whydon't you just talk a little bit
(04:16):
about what you were doing withrecycled fabrics and just the
whole Maniac concept?
Brad Black: (04:26):
Well, we believed in the same thing, and how we
got there was a littledifferent. We shared the ethos
still to today, and it reallydoes carry us through those
tough times, and the bond. Andso we both had a vision of how
(04:48):
we wanted to engage in theworkspace, but also in our
lives. We just had this deepresonance. And it was apparent
to me on that first meeting, andthen we just became great pals
and friends. And then itdeveloped, like a lot of
relationships do. And so in thebusiness space, we, in the old
(05:08):
days, families work together thefarm. That's such a great
example. And so it's kind of themodel that we wanted to create
for ourselves, knowingly ormaybe even unknowingly. And so
we wanted to create a companythat we wanted to work for,
understanding what theconstraints in business are
like. You got to be profitable.And the values, mission and
(05:31):
passion only go so far as yougot to have that cash flow.
Susan Griffin-Black: (05:37):
No margin, no mission, as we said.
Brad Black: (05:42):
And so in this arena of wanting to work for a
company that really resonatedwith us is organic or natural,
or the triple bottom line, orthe golden rule of treating
people how you want to betreated. And that ethos, as you
mentioned, the core is what hasdriven us all through the years.
(06:04):
Lots of bumps in business and inlife, yet it's that core belief
that has ultimately kept ustogether.
Justine Reichman: (06:10):
That's amazing. I mean, to create a
business that people want tostay at. I was talking to some
of the people here, one personhere who said she's been here 11
years, and she's like the baby.So it tells you that there's
something unique about thisenvironment that you guys have
created that creates stability,creates loyalty, creates family,
which is really nice to see,because a lot of companies you
(06:32):
see today, people are in and outthere want need to get a new job
to make more money. They have towork on being able to pay their
bills, which is important, asyou said, no margin, no mission.
But here you have a mix of both.So I'd love to just jump in sure
to like, talk about the idea ofbuilding a better for you
business and the role that theseessential oils play in it for
(06:53):
you in particular. So for thosefolks that are not familiar with
EO, could you just tell us alittle bit about it?
Susan Griffin-Black: (07:00):
Oh, sure. So EO, we started by doing four
blends for the Bloomingdale'scatalog in 1995, and we had to
quickly come up with a name. Isat next to our friend who was a
graphic designer at Apple, andwe had these very little
bottles, very concentratedblends to make, and we had to
(07:23):
come up with a name and aconcept. So we thought about it,
and we were very specific abouttype and a very minimalist
attitude. And came up with EO,for Essential Oils, because
everyone who was doingaromatherapy at the time was
talking about Cleopatra. Thishas been around for 2500 years,
(07:49):
and we wanted it to be relevantand modern. And people didn't
really understand that, and wedidn't have a leaf on our
packaging when we got into WholeFoods. We sort of stood out
because of it. It was sort of amixed bag, review wise. But I
(08:10):
would say essential oils arereal. And the example I use
often is that they makeincredible artificial flowers.
You can have a real rose and abeautiful silk rose across the
room, and think, wow, they'rethe same. And as you get closer
(08:31):
and you bend down to smell one,it's alive, it's resonant. It's
part of us. And the other wasmade in a factory, wherever it
was, and there's no vitality. Soessential oils are our
touchstone, because ofagriculture plants and the
(08:53):
realness, and how we're allconnected.
Brad Black: (08:55):
Essential oils are like the bar. We hear the
saying, what? No bull in thechina shop, or however that
goes. We can't embrace all ofthe wonderful attributes in a
pure essential oil. And so thateliminates a lot of ingredients,
why would you spoil an essentialoil with an ingredient that
(09:16):
doesn't enhance it more, or atleast maintain it? And so
through the years, that has justbeen a consistency. They're more
expensive, they're harder towork with. The shelf life isn't
as long. There's just a lot ofreasons not to do it. Yet, it is
the core of our brand and theethos.
Justine Reichman: (09:34):
Today, everybody's all about
transparency and what's in it.And we're all reading these
labels to know, do we know theseproducts? Do we know these
ingredients? Can we evenpronounce them? And I know that
way back when it almost soundslike you were at the forefront
of this a little bit, makingthis available and accessible to
(09:54):
people. So I have to imagine,what role did education play in
that for you? Because peoplehave to make a choice to buy
this, and there's lots of goodreasons, but I don't know that
people originally knew why.
Susan Griffin-Black: (10:08):
They didn't. Once they used the
product, or sampled the product,or smelled the product, then
they had a response. And thatwas our original core customer
base that we still have. But Ithink in terms of education, it
was really in the experiencemore than anything.
Justine Reichman: (10:29):
Oh, interesting, because there's
lots of products out there. Iknow when I go to the store now,
more than ever, I'm readingwhat's on the label. So when I
read your label, and I readanother label, because there's a
lot of people in this space now,what is something that you want
people to recognize about yoursthat's different than the
Brad Black: (10:46):
Our request is, don't look at the back of the
others?
product. Look at the front ofit. There are certain guidelines
that we have to follow. Yougotta list all of the
ingredients in order. Yet, whatpeople aren't aware of is who's
making it and how do they makedecisions making the product.
And one example of getting lostin some of these ingredients,
(11:08):
orange juice is something thatwas brought up. So orange juice
from concentrate is the same onthe back of a label as orange
juice freshly squeezed. And soif we're going to list it inky
wise, orange juice is going tobe on there. Yet, we do know
that there's a huge differencebetween orange juice from
concentrate and freshly squeezedorange juice. And so the
(11:31):
education, or the request toconsumers is look at who's
making the decisions. That'slike, what's the ethos of the
company? And that's the pointthat really sticks out for us.
Some of our compadres out therein the industry, but most don't.
Most are driving down costs,driving up marketing and trying
to create a perception versuswe're just trying to go to work
(11:53):
every day and do our best. And Ithink that's how it shows up
differently in the product.
Susan Griffin-Black: (11:58):
I also think, because we committed,
because of Brad's expertise andmindset in terms of can do
flexibility, just being able tofigure it out to being makers,
because we couldn't find peopleto make products the way that we
(12:19):
wanted to. So it was just thebeginning of the natural foods
business, and we took our cuesfrom food and then into personal
care as much as possible. And wegot to grow up with making the
standards and participating inthe natural products industry
(12:42):
from the time Whole Foodsprobably had, what? 40 stores.
So we've been such a part ofthis really supportive and
unique community of people, andthat kept us going a lot. I
think that we've all kept eachother going a lot.
Justine Reichman: (13:00):
And it sounds like you've actually been part
of the process to create thestandards and to create change
in that space in very much of aleadership way, not like you
were coming into it late in thegame. You were there in the
beginning, trying to set thosestandards, which I think is
amazing.
Susan Griffin-Black: (13:17):
Well, I think that the other thing
that's unique is neither of ushas any background in chemistry
fragrance, so we didn't know thedifference. And that happens
sometimes with the startingpoint. Our starting point was
we're totally committed toessential oils. So what does
(13:39):
that mean? We didn't even reallyknow anything about synthetic
fragrance. But later when peoplecame to try to sell us synthetic
fragrance, and it was so muchless expensive, so much easier
to work with. But we were like,you can get Vinaigrette at
(14:03):
McDonald's on a salad, and AliceWaters with her five
ingredients. Same thing withingredients and lavender. Is it
lavender? Is it from the samespecies? Is it from France? Is
(14:25):
it unadulterated? Do you knowhow it's grown? Do you know the
weather? All of those thingsmake it all real.
Justine Reichman: (14:33):
And it sounds like there's a lot of education.
As you said, you took thosecrash courses to be able to
learn it, but you also got ahuge amount of training on the
job. We did a huge amount oftraining. You get this idea, and
it's an infant of an idea. Andall of a sudden, you're learning
all these things. As an founder,as somebody that's built these
businesses from the beginning,what would you say to another
(14:55):
founder that's tuning in todaythat might be listening and say,
okay, you're right. I have anidea. But what do I do next?
Brad Black: (15:02):
We know the path. The path is really what feels
right and what resonates. Andessential oils has been a big
part of our path. Another veryimportant aspect that we
followed is community. We madeproducts for our kids, like, why
wouldn't we do our best for ourkids and our broader family, and
(15:23):
then for close friends and forfarther away friends, and then
it's just consumers. Then itexpands from there to the earth,
just taking care. So these wereinitial guiding principles for
us. And so a message to otherfounders is these feelings and
beliefs that really give us thepassion to be in the business,
(15:47):
to get over those consistentbumps, bad cash flow and all
those issues. It's the passionthat really drives it. So having
some clarity to really whatdrives essential oils, community
and there's some others, thefolks that we work with here,
we're just two people on the onthe big gear, and it's about all
of us. So if we want to create acompany that we want to work
(16:10):
for, we also want to have acompany that they want to work
for.
Susan Griffin-Black: (16:14):
Yeah. those are the same things, I
think. And I would also say too,that we created products that we
wanted to use. Sometimes in moretraditional marketing, and
certainly now with AI andeverything being so data driven
and so much analysis. Thatwasn't the case when we started.
(16:37):
It was sort of a reallyinstinctual decision to say,
smell this, do you like this?And then pass it around the
office and say, you know what?You use this? And that's how we
started, because we we wanted itto be, it was the greater good.
It was for us, it was for ourkids, it was for family, it was
(16:59):
for community. And because wewere some part of something
bigger in the natural productsindustry, which was really a
better for you industry, andcommitment, then that momentum
was just really helpful instaying on our path to have that
Justine Reichman: (17:17):
I find it so interesting. Because I talked to
support.
a lot of founders, and a lot ofpeople are like, well, I had a
passion for it. And it's thesame reason for me. I get up
every morning excited to do whatI'm going to do. I want to have
an impact. I want to make adifference. I want to inspire. I
want to create change. And asI'm talking to you and to other
founders, people are telling youthe same thing. They're inspired
(17:38):
to do this. And I feel like it'sa very special place to be able
to have a business to that youlike, that you'd want to work
with, that you could supportother people, to be happy to
come to, to provide alivelihood, and to make
something that's better for you.
Susan Griffin-Black: (17:52):
Because I think that we all value self
expression. And self expression,meaning that you're really
living your life in accordancewith your values, and it's a
privilege. Although it can be,but it's not taught. It's not
(18:13):
the values of our culture. Thevalues of our culture are more
like, are you successful? Howmuch money? And I think that was
just part of our motive, becausewe had to pay, of course, rent.
But that wasn't the driver. Andso people who start companies
(18:36):
who want to get in, want to getout, and the product is kind of
over there because they think itwill be successful.
Justine Reichman: (18:43):
It's a different conversation, I think.
Brad Black: (18:47):
To expand on that a little bit. And you mentioned
this before about a desire thatmany people have to want to
contribute. We want to see andfeel that there's a need for us.
There's 8 billion plus people inthe world, and we want to see
that we are needed. It's a core,heartfelt thing. What's missing
(19:12):
a lot in business and clarityfrom other founders is, how can
we contribute while beingpassionate to our own visions?
How does community fit in? We'restrong as the weakest link of,
say employees here. We're inthis all together. That's
overused. Yet, we make productsfor us, and we make products for
(19:34):
you. They are the same. All ofour plastic bottles are cost 15%
more because they're made fromrecycled content. We don't
charge more for that. We want tosell our product at local
grocery stores for 599. We'renot charging 1,299, although we
could. And many people do so.How do we choose to contribute
(19:58):
and engage with this concept of,I want to be of value. I want to
be in service to others. I wantothers to see me as something
that's positive in their lives.And that's up to them to decide.
It's not up to us to decide.
Justine Reichman: (20:12):
Do you think that conversation, I think it
has myself evolved over theyears. Because when I graduated
from university, everybody wasgoing into banking, advertising,
all these different things. Notto say that there's anything bad
with them, but it was like, myclients were UPS and these other
things. I didn't personally feellike I was having an impact in
(20:33):
the world. And when I thinkabout it, that conversation for
myself only happened around theyear 2000 where all of a sudden,
I changed. And I was like, no, Iwant to do this.
Susan Griffin-Black: (20:42):
What made you change?
Justine Reichman: (20:45):
Well, I was at the movies on 19th Street in
New York City. And basically,there was a community of people.
It was like sorority that got upto make a difference, to lobby
something in this film that Iwas watching. And I was like,
that's it. It's community. Weneed to come together to create
a platform where people canconnect and do different things.
And for me, I was in the middleof a career transition, so I
(21:07):
created a community aroundpeople connecting to make more
informed choices around theircareers, and to bring speakers
in so that people could figureout how to do that, how to lean
into what they're good at, andwhat they're passionate about.
It was called Career ChangeNetwork. I started that around
the year 2000. And basically,Essential Ingredients is kind of
the same model, which isbringing people together,
(21:29):
sharing resources, and givingpeople a platform so that they
can inspire others to make moreinformed choices or innovate in
a different way based onstories, information and
education. That's what startedwith this movie. I'm embarrassed
to tell you what movie it was.It's called Legally Blonde. But
you remember when they all getup? That was the moment. I know
(21:50):
it sounds silly, the story. Inever saw it. I've heard what
the blonde hair girl, what's hername? Witherspoon. And she gets
all her dog, was gonna be herdog's mom, was gonna be used for
animal testing. So she wastrying to get this bill passed.
(22:10):
If there's like a line you callthe sorority, and every single
person puts their phone up andtries to get the next person to
help out. And that was sort ofthe inspiration, as silly as it
says.
Susan Griffin-Black: (22:19):
It's not silly. The way we got into our
first Whole Foods, because thebuyers were like, you had to go
one store at a time, right? Wecalled first. Brad used to call.
Hello. Do you have EO? GuerillaMarketing at its finest. And
(22:40):
then we got all the people atour daughter's school to put
notes on the community board tosay, where's EO? We really want
EO. And finally, they responded.It sort of goes back to that
Margaret Mead, totally overusedsaying. When you got a small
(23:02):
passionate group of people, youcan change the world. And that's
really what does it?
Justine Reichman: (23:08):
I think so. I'm happy to be in your company
to hear these stories, becauseit just resonates so much with
me. I hope our founders as well.Because I think so many of the
founders that I talked to, theywere having a kid, they found a
need, or they moved to a newplace, and they realized it's
something that was missing fromtheir new place, and it's all
from a place of fashion. And toshow how somebody could build a
(23:30):
business that is impactful makesmoney. So it's mission and
margin together, and support alocal community is huge. There's
two things I'd love to touch on.One is the community aspect.
Because you're pretty big in ourcommunity here in the Bay Area.
(23:52):
People know EO. You go into thehotels, it's in there. You go
into the restaurants, it's inthere in the bathrooms. Before I
was NextGen Purpose, I wasNextGenChef, and you guys gave
us antibacterial soap for one ofour events. It's everywhere. I
just want to know what role thecommunity that we live in
(24:14):
outside of the EO house hereplays for you guys.
Brad Black: (24:18):
There's a little bit of a selfish response in
that. And that is localcommunity. There's a variety of
different types of communities.Local community provides an
opportunity to have a face toface, to be an actual physical
relationship. That's one thingthat's really important. And
then the second part of it is wewant to show what our intention
(24:41):
is through our actions, and ourcommunity is a sounding board
for us. Talk is cheap. Ideas areabundant. Yet, how you play the
game of life in business, athome and all avenues is
reflected in relationshipswithin communities, in the
feedback and so you. It's aboutthe actions, and then it's about
(25:02):
engaging enough to see ifthere's resonance and
appreciation for actions. Ican't determine, hey, I want to
be nice. It's baseless. Yet, ifpeople start to engage with me
and say, they're not going tosay that, Brad, you're nice. But
there's ways for others todecide how we contribute to
them. It's not up to me todecide.
Susan Griffin-Black: (25:23):
Yeah. I think there's this idea that we
sort of reflect off of eachother. We all sort of hold up a
mirror, and then it's ourability to respond. And when
you're doing something for usthat was really wholehearted and
(25:44):
values aligned, regardless ofthe difficulty. And there have
been many, many, many thatthere's sort of a through line,
because it really is heartfelt.That is resonant because it's so
human, and that's really thesort of foundation of
transparency. The foundation oftransparency isn't, look at us.
(26:09):
We're transparent. We're goingto just tell you, ask us
anything. We'll give you ourmost honest response. But it's
not to get anything. It's togive. We were just talking about
this about giving back. There'sno back. It's throw away.
(26:30):
Where's the way? There's noback. People, humans have always
given in the best and worst ofcircumstances. It's our natural
tendency.
Justine Reichman: (26:41):
It's important to give and receive, I
believe. I receive, you give,and I receive. And then we have
this goes over and over, andover again. And I think that
sort of supports the whole ideaof it, because it keeps feeding
it, so to speak. The morereception you get, the more you
keep giving. Goes back andforth.
Brad Black: (27:01):
Yes. And then the other part of that that I
struggle with a little bit is Ilove to give. Receiving is
little hard. And so in order forthe dynamic to work, I got to
work on myself to be able toreceive. And it's just such an
interesting dynamic andconversation. It's got to go
both ways.
Justine Reichman: (27:21):
I think a lot of people have trouble with one
or the other. It's not uncommonat all. I love to give too. It's
kind of, they say your lovelanguage. I love to give, and
there's so many ways to give. Itcould be giving verbally. It
could be giving a gift. It couldbe so many doing something in a
positive way, so many differentthings. But receiving, like you
said, it's a little bit morechallenging. I was very good at
(27:49):
it as a kid. Here in in Marin,and specifically Mill Valley,
I'm going to say there's a lotof conversation around
sustainability. When we did thisevent in Mill Valley, I remember
the rules and regulations aroundwhat you were allowed to serve
things on and put things in,which takes me to your packaging
(28:10):
and the sustainability aspect,and what role it plays in it for
you, I know you mentioned thatit's recycled plastic, which is
obviously great. But there's somany different issues today that
people are talking about. And ona local level, every area has
different rules around what youcan recycle, what you can
compost, what you can do. I'mjust wondering how that played
(28:32):
out for you with your product?
Susan Griffin-Black: (28:33):
Friends of mine wrote a book like 35 years
ago called Paper or Plastic.They were very advanced too.
There were people who were atSprit and people who started the
Rainforest Action Network, andthe OG environmentalists, and
we've really been on a parallelpath, really looking, watching
(28:58):
and learning. Not more proactivethan reactive, and not hopping
on the latest trend, because theproblems are real. When you make
something, there's always waste.So then you have to counter that
by being zero waste. And glassis an option, or aluminum tubes
(29:20):
might be an option. But themaking of that packaging and the
energy that it takes to makethat packaging. There's all
kinds of challenges across theboard in making those decisions,
and we really tried to studywere practical, And the idea of
(29:40):
innovation really has to be longterm.
Justine Reichman: (29:44):
So with that in mind, how did you make your
decisions for what you're using?And how you do it?
Brad Black: (29:50):
This sustainable thing just makes me want to gag.
I believe in the intention andthe concept of it. It started
with organic, then it moved intosustainability. Now, it's this
whole concept of regen. Andwhere the conversation needs to
be is, how do you make the rightdecision? Regen is all right?
(30:13):
Well, let's fix something. Let'srenew it. Yet, we're not talking
about why we got to the place torenew. It's what Susan said
before about giving back. Well,people have a sense of giving
back because they're taking alot, so then they feel better
because they take a lot. And nowthat we're giving back, well,
the conversation should be,don't take as much. So how do
(30:36):
you make responsible decisionsin finance? How do you make
responsible decisions inmarketing? We're not just trying
to create a perception inmarketing that we care about the
earth that's really comes out inactions. And so I love the idea
about what is responsible. Let'shave a conversation about how we
(30:58):
make decisions, and not kickingthis can down the road. Not
having the bigger conversationof, we need to take care of the
planet and be sustainable in thefirst decision that we make
about packaging. And so we'remaking decisions on packaging
really for us, because I don'tthink that a large percentage of
(31:20):
the population really cares.Look at the number of people
that don't recycle.
Justine Reichman: (31:25):
I'm with you. I find the whole thing very
confusing, and I also don't knowhow to make those choices. Let's
participate in, what does thatmean to us?
take it out of this product.Look at food. Go out to dinner.
Now, I have leftovers. Am Ibetter off taking my leftovers
and putting them in the takeawaystuff that's made of styrofoam,
plastic or whatever? Or am Ibetter off leaving them? Now, I
(31:47):
ask this because if I bring homeanything in styrofoam or
whatever, Tim's always like,that such wasteful. I'm like, I
tried to bring a container, butthey don't want to use my
container. So am I better offwasting the food? And I use that
as a small example.
(32:14):
Yeah, right. How do I make thatchoice? How do you make that
choice?
Susan Griffin-Black: (32:17):
It's very different depending on beliefs,
education, how you live yourlife, values. Marin is crazy.
The garbage situation in Marin,I can't tell you how much time I
spend re-sorting.
Justine Reichman: (32:33):
In Larkspur, too. I have to keep reading to
figure out, can this be recycledor not?
Susan Griffin-Black: (32:40):
We do dumpster dives here, which is
how we got to be zero waste.
Brad Black: (32:46):
Wow. I think styrofoam takeaway at the
restaurant is better than paper.The reason is that people see
that styrofoam is garbage, andthen they'll throw it away. The
thing with paper is that it'sstill not recyclable, right?
(33:08):
Because it's like, if you take apiece of paper and put water on
it, the water is going to absorbthrough the paper, and then it's
just going to go through. Youget a paper cup at the coffee
place. It's lined with plastic,and so it's not recyclable. And
so there's this misperception,or there's this multiple
(33:29):
billions of dollars spent oncreating a perception that
somebody is actually doing good.But really, what they're doing
is spending billions of dollarscreating a perception, which is
why we'll go back to what youstarted with. You want to look
at the front of the bottle andhave an understanding of who
owns it. How do they go aboutmaking decisions making their
(33:49):
products? Plastic is an issue,and we do need to evolve away
from plastic. Yet, we got tofirst work on recycling, and
then we have to come up withalternatives. But it's not going
to happen really quickly. Youdon't want glass bottles that
your kids use in the bath.That's just creates another
(34:10):
issue. So there's an evolutionhere, and it's common sense.
Susan Griffin-Black: (34:15):
But also, you have other problems with
glass in terms of manufacturingand shipping. So it's a kind of
50 to 100 year process.
Justine Reichman: (34:30):
Probably not in our lifetime.
Susan Griffin-Black: (34:31):
Well, it's evolving. Because if you're
thinking about it, it'sevolving. One of our best
friends competitors, Dr.Bronner's, doing their products
now half in recycled plastic andhalf in milk cartons for refill,
and they did an extensive studyto determine that that was the
(34:55):
best way to the best next thing,because of weight and energy
resourcing and so forth. I don'tknow, really. I mean, from an
esthetic point of view, not somuch. It's too confusing for
people. It's not intuitive. Forus, we're tremendous respect and
(35:16):
we're very different in ourpresentation. So part of it is
that sincerely, that from adesign point of view and what
you would want to use, and howthat feels. And then the other
part of it equally as importantis the functionality, and
knowing what to do before andafter you have that product.
Brad Black: (35:37):
I just want to go back. Something comes up in that
conversation, but it goes backto the takeout container. So
we've been intentional here atwork to move away from this idea
of work life balance to lifebalance. And we can't give
someone life balance, but we canoffer them an opportunity
through their time at work forgreater life balance. And so I
(36:01):
went to Okinawa, and I checkedout because it's a blue zone.
People live to 100 plus years,and they have a lot of different
types of habits. And one of thethings is that they only eat 80%
of the food that they want. Sothe answer to, what should you
take out your extra food in?Well, don't have extra food. I'm
(36:22):
a big foodie. I eat, and Iovereat. Not many people do.
However, I'm trying to start anew habit where I'm ordering
about 80%. It's a little bit ofa bummer because one more bite
of that hamburger or whateversalad, it would be great. Yet,
it's ordering the 80% so thatyou don't have to have a
(36:43):
container to take it away.
Justine Reichman: (36:44):
When I'm at home, or if I'm a friend's house
for dinner, I always take alittle bit, and I go back for
more because I don't like toleave it on my plate. I also
like to make sure I like it. Iwas raised that my parents were
like, you don't have to eat yourwhole plate. Take a little, and
try it. And if you're hungry, goback for more. But I think it's
a philosophy also, and how wewere raised, and how we do
(37:06):
things. If you go to the Midwestand you get these enormous
portions, and it's the cleanplate club, right? That's one
thing. Then you have otherplaces where you pay more, and
you get less. Now, I generallylike less, not that I want to
pay more, but I don't need more.I appreciate what I'm getting. I
don't need more to appreciateit. But I think it's a really
(37:30):
interesting conversation,because there's a lot of people
that feel like they need toclean their plate.
Susan Griffin-Black: (37:34):
I think more is not better. Better is
better. And culturally and forall sorts of reasons, we always
think more is better, bigger isbetter. And it's just not true
in my experience. I can onlyspeak for myself, but I'm just
saying that there's theperception of scarcity, or the
(37:59):
fear of scarcity, or whateverthat is really contributes to
the whole cycle.
Justine Reichman: (38:06):
During COVID, what was it? The toilet paper or
wate? I mean, there was avariety of hand sanitizer.
Everybody collected it like theycouldn't get any more, and I
think that that mindset that'sgoing to impact the next
generation of people that livethrough that and how they then
do things. I feel like comingfrom New York and growing up in
(38:28):
Manhattan, we lived in anapartment and those things. And
if you move to the suburbs, thecountry, upstate or Pittsburgh,
you get a much bigger house fora lot less money. And then we
move here, and you get nothingfor a lot of money. My point is
that my whole mindset aroundwhat I want and what I need
(38:48):
changes based on my experience,on where we are. So when I came
here and I went to go look forplaces to live, I'm like, wow,
this place is old and dumpy. Andit's really expensive. But
people pay a lot of money for itbecause they like the
surroundings. So we change whatbecomes important to us and how
we value what we have. And sowhether it's your house, or your
(39:10):
food, or your ingredients, itcomes down to what you're
saying, which is the person, thepeople. Because I just run it
full circle, at least for myselfthat I was like, all of a
sudden, I'm making thosechoices. And people are looking
at the choices I'm making, asopposed to making those
decisions because somebody elseis telling me it's lived
experience. I know that there'sso many interesting topics that
(39:36):
we talked about, and I love thatbecause I think it's expansive,
both for our guests and ourlisteners, as well as myself
participating in thisconversation. I really love
that. I do want to circle backso that those people that are
interested in making moreinformed choices and building a
business where the community,your employees are part of it,
(40:00):
and family, and having that goodexperience. Can you give people
just a couple ideas or conceptsthat they can think about to
make sure that they include tohave a similar result?
Brad Black: (40:11):
When we stand in life as 20, 30 or 40 years old,
we look forward, and there's alot of unknown. What I have
started do as I get older is I'mlooking backwards in the future.
In other words, on my deathbed.I want to look back. My legacy
is important. There are somethings that I want to accomplish
(40:33):
in life. Now in business, youcould look at it the same way.
How do you want to give backprofits and all that sort of
stuff? You can actually take aplace in the future, look back
and then create sort of a ladderto get to. It's about each of
the steps, and that's been veryhelpful for me because it
creates a known end point. Hey,I want to get to the roof, so I
(40:55):
take each step to go up. You cando the same way in business and
in life. You can set thesethings, and then you can look
back to see if each step isreasonable.
Justine Reichman: (41:03):
I couldn't agree more. I also think that
people don't realize that thesesteps take time. How often do we
hear that, oh, remember whenOatly got really popular and
people thought it happenedovernight? That took a lot of
years. That didn't happenovernight. So I think that
that's something reallyimportant for people to remember
that it takes time.
Susan Griffin-Black: (41:24):
And to value that, it takes time. It's
perfectly okay, as long asyou're learning, as long as you
feel a sense of purpose andmeaning. And a sense of
belonging to something that'sbigger, that it's expansive,
then it's fine that it takestime. That's how you're spending
(41:45):
your day. And so the enjoymentof how you're spending your day,
or the challenge of how you'respending your day, or the
ability to be present with whatis happening now and who you're
with now is a key part of that,because that's all we got.
Justine Reichman: (42:04):
I looked back the other day and I was like,
wow, I did this. And all of asudden, all these things were
coming to fruition. And I thinkthat that's pivotal for people
to realize, all of a sudden,that hard work turns into
something tangible, and it takesa while. It didn't happen
overnight. You created the handcream that's humming French
lavender, right? But all of asudden, you have these things,
(42:26):
and then you expand on them, andthen you have the next thing.
Susan Griffin-Black: (42:30):
And you keep evolving, keep evolving,
and you keep questioning, andyou keep learning. Lifelong
learning is so important becauseit keeps us flexible, vital and
curious.
Brad Black: (42:44):
A minute is a minute. How do you choose to
spend that minute and lookingforward, it's an unknown. But
looking back, I want to lookback at the last minute, and I
want to be peaceful now. I knowlife can be a bit of a cluster,
and we spend a lot of time inthis space called worry. We're
(43:04):
worrying about a future eventthat hasn't unfolded yet, so
it's kind of get out of that.Now, bad cash flow can create a
lot of worry in business. Ifthere's a way that you can
actually be very specific aboutwhat those cash flow issues,
it's just an example that couldbring up. Write them down, and
just start to address it. Getout of the worry space that's
(43:25):
more of an emotional feeling,and move it into a transactional
space that can actually then beaddressed.
Justine Reichman: (43:33):
I think that's brilliant. My mom always
said, wait to worry.
Susan Griffin-Black: (43:36):
Great advice. I love that.
Brad Black: (43:39):
And easier said than done.
Justine Reichman: (43:41):
Totally. But if you can remember to say that,
that's half the battle, right?You're halfway there.
Susan Griffin-Black: (43:48):
Also when you're in the flow and you're
just doing whatever you'redoing, and you're not worrying
because you're just with it, ofcourse, it's lasts as long as it
lasts. But you can see thedifference of being in the
present, being in the flow andwhere that takes you. Then when
(44:09):
things stop and you have tooverthink things, and then you
start thinking about things, andthen the worry comes in. And
Justine Reichman: (44:16):
And worry, you get this immediate reaction
then so you just really have toreturn to, how does your body feel?
in your head. We have fear, yes,and that lasts for a little bit
of time. But if you can getthrough that time and not react
during that time, you can getpast it and be more thoughtful
(44:38):
about it, as opposed toreactionary.
Brad Black: (44:40):
And where to work on with that isn't about trying
to create less worry in yourlife, because worry will always
come along. The practice pointon this is knowing that a worry
place will come up and beingactive in getting out of the
worry. It's like meditation.Meditation, for me, isn't about
being in that zen mode. Momentmeditation, for me, is knowing
(45:02):
that I'm going to get knockedout of meditation, and then
having the awareness to get backon track. So worry bad cash
flow, all those things willhappen. Be less resistant toward
that, but more determined abouthow to get out of it.
Susan Griffin-Black: (45:17):
I think that's really true. I also think
that meditation isn't aboutlearning how to meditate better.
It's about really observing whathappens in our mind when we sit
still, and being able to be morecompassionate, curious,
(45:39):
hopefully loving and accepting.So it's not a matter of getting
good at these things. It's amatter, to me, of accepting what
is actually happening right now,and then working with that as
best as we're able.
Justine Reichman: (45:56):
Talked about the meditation thing for a
second. I remember one time thatI went to this meditation This
is 100 years ago, but I wentthere and they're like, okay,
you need to create a place inyour mind and focus on that. And
that never really worked for me.I can picture myself on a beach
in the Virgin Islands, but I wasso busy trying to figure out
what they meant to do that Ididn't realize I had already
(46:18):
been meditating. Every time Isit on the train and I'm going
up the Hudson Valley, and I'mlooking out at the trees, and my
mind is blank because all I'mdoing is looking there. And to
me, that was very meditative.
Brad Black: (46:30):
It's a good example. I'm not a good
meditator either.
Justine Reichman: (46:34):
We do it, and we're not thinking about it
sometimes.
Susan Griffin-Black: (46:37):
And that really is what it is.
Justine Reichman: (46:39):
Well, guys, I want to thank you so much for
joining me today. I know thatour community is going to love
this episode because it reallytalked about all the essential
ingredients of everything, theproduct, building business,
everything. It was great to meetyou both. So thank you.
Susan Griffin-Black: (46:53):
Thank you. It was really great to all be
together.
Brad Black: (46:57):
Appreciate the conversation
Justine Reichman: (47:00):
Thank you to our community that tunes in each
week to hear theseconversations. And if you do
have any questions, what's thebest way for anybody to reach
out?
Brad Black: (47:08):
We have eoproducts.com, I think that's a
good place to start.
Susan Griffin-Black: (47:15):
Just to take a little further,
susan@eoproducts.com, andbradb@eoproducts.com.
Justine Reichman: (47:23):
Awesome. I'm Justine@nextgenpurpose.com.
Thanks so much. Thank you,Chloe.
Susan Griffin-Black: (47:29):
Thank you.
Brad Black: (47:29):
Thank you Chloe.
Justine Reichman: (47:31):
Hey, all. I just wanted to thank you guys,
whether you're our new loyallisteners, whether you're
watching it and viewing it fromYouTube, but thank you for
tuning in today. I want to thankour guests for giving us an
inside look at what it takes tobuild a brand, and to root
yourselves in sustainability andtransparency, so thank you. And
(47:53):
for those that are tuning intoday that are new and really
don't know how to find ourvideocast, or are not sure of
our outlets, our videocast canbe found either on our website,
@nextgenpurpose.com, or onYouTube. We have an Essential
Ingredients channel. And forthose that want to tune into the
podcast, wherever you listen toyour podcast, you can find the
Essential Ingredients Podcastwith Justine, so thanks again
(48:16):
for tuning in. See you nextweek.
Good morning, and welcome to Essential
(00:14):
Ingredients. I'm Justine, yourhost. I'm excited today to share
with you a very special episode.What makes this special is not
only did we talk to theCo-Founders, we were in person
and behind the scenes. You'renot going to want to miss this,
so stay tuned. Hi guys, thanksso much for joining me today.
Susan Griffin-Black: (00:31):
We're just so happy to be here. Thank you.
Brad Black: (00:34):
Thank you as well.
Justine Reichman: (00:35):
Yeah. So for those folks that are tuning in
today and can watch, we're hereat EO with Brad and Susan. I'm
going to learn all aboutessential oils, because I'm
guessing that that's what EOstands for.
Susan Griffin-Black: (00:44):
It does.
Justine Reichman: (00:46):
You guys have been around for 30 years, that's
a long time. Well done. So how'dyou guys get together to start
this company together?
Susan Griffin-Black: (01:00):
I think Brad and I met in 1989? Is that
where I have that note from you?
Brad Black: (01:11):
I was manufacturing clothes at the time, and Susan
came into my warehouse in Juneof 1988, and I wrote her a thank
you letter for coming over. Andthen she kept it.
Susan Griffin-Black: (01:33):
So we were shopping for my boyfriend at the
time. I was going on a scavengerhunt around the world, and he
worked at a spree. And Maniac,Brad's company, offered to give
him to wardrobe him for hisscavenger hunt adventure. And
that's how we met.
Justine Reichman: (01:53):
And what did you go in there to do?
Susan Griffin-Black: (01:55):
Well, I was a stylist.
Justine Reichman: (01:59):
How do we go from stylist and fashion to
essential oils?
Susan Griffin-Black: (02:05):
Well, I've been a product person forever. I
was a clothing designer in mypast life, and then I was
looking for a change. I was inLondon and found this little
shop Apothecary, and walked inthe door, and the smell was so
(02:26):
honest and unusual. I had like aflashback to my grandma's
garden, lilacs and fireflies,and tomatoes. But It was
actually lavender that Ismelled, and I was so
interested, curious andintrigued about essential oils.
(02:50):
That just sort of took me rightin. And then I was like, I knew
what I wanted to study and learnmore about. And then the other
part of it was Brad's and myoffices were in the same
building, and we were friendsfor years. We dated for a while,
and then we got married, andthen we got divorced, sort of
(03:12):
trajectory. And now, we'refamily and business partners for
all this time, right? But Ithink essentially, we've always
had the same drive, ambition,values, and wanted to create a
company that we wanted to workfor.
Justine Reichman: (03:30):
That's amazing. And the whole
trajectory is just amazing. Fromfriends to family, to the whole
thing and still workingtogether. Because working with
family can be hard. I workedwith my mom, that was a
challenge. It looks like it'sworked out really, really well
30 years later. So you went intothis Apothecary, and you were
(03:52):
inspired to create somethingalong these lines?
Susan Griffin-Black: (03:55):
Yes. And so started studying
aromatherapy, took a crashcourse in cosmetic chemistry.
Brad was winding down hisclothing company, but the thing
that Brad really brought to theparty was he was already
manufacturing products. Whydon't you just talk a little bit
(04:16):
about what you were doing withrecycled fabrics and just the
whole Maniac concept?
Brad Black: (04:26):
Well, we believed in the same thing, and how we
got there was a littledifferent. We shared the ethos
still to today, and it reallydoes carry us through those
tough times, and the bond. Andso we both had a vision of how
(04:48):
we wanted to engage in theworkspace, but also in our
lives. We just had this deepresonance. And it was apparent
to me on that first meeting, andthen we just became great pals
and friends. And then itdeveloped, like a lot of
relationships do. And so in thebusiness space, we, in the old
(05:08):
days, families work together thefarm. That's such a great
example. And so it's kind of themodel that we wanted to create
for ourselves, knowingly ormaybe even unknowingly. And so
we wanted to create a companythat we wanted to work for,
understanding what theconstraints in business are
like. You got to be profitable.And the values, mission and
(05:31):
passion only go so far as yougot to have that cash flow.
Susan Griffin-Black: (05:37):
No margin, no mission, as we said.
Brad Black: (05:42):
And so in this arena of wanting to work for a
company that really resonatedwith us is organic or natural,
or the triple bottom line, orthe golden rule of treating
people how you want to betreated. And that ethos, as you
mentioned, the core is what hasdriven us all through the years.
(06:04):
Lots of bumps in business and inlife, yet it's that core belief
that has ultimately kept ustogether.
Justine Reichman: (06:10):
That's amazing. I mean, to create a
business that people want tostay at. I was talking to some
of the people here, one personhere who said she's been here 11
years, and she's like the baby.So it tells you that there's
something unique about thisenvironment that you guys have
created that creates stability,creates loyalty, creates family,
which is really nice to see,because a lot of companies you
(06:32):
see today, people are in and outthere want need to get a new job
to make more money. They have towork on being able to pay their
bills, which is important, asyou said, no margin, no mission.
But here you have a mix of both.So I'd love to just jump in sure
to like, talk about the idea ofbuilding a better for you
business and the role that theseessential oils play in it for
(06:53):
you in particular. So for thosefolks that are not familiar with
EO, could you just tell us alittle bit about it?
Susan Griffin-Black: (07:00):
Oh, sure. So EO, we started by doing four
blends for the Bloomingdale'scatalog in 1995, and we had to
quickly come up with a name. Isat next to our friend who was a
graphic designer at Apple, andwe had these very little
bottles, very concentratedblends to make, and we had to
(07:23):
come up with a name and aconcept. So we thought about it,
and we were very specific abouttype and a very minimalist
attitude. And came up with EO,for Essential Oils, because
everyone who was doingaromatherapy at the time was
talking about Cleopatra. Thishas been around for 2500 years,
(07:49):
and we wanted it to be relevantand modern. And people didn't
really understand that, and wedidn't have a leaf on our
packaging when we got into WholeFoods. We sort of stood out
because of it. It was sort of amixed bag, review wise. But I
(08:10):
would say essential oils arereal. And the example I use
often is that they makeincredible artificial flowers.
You can have a real rose and abeautiful silk rose across the
room, and think, wow, they'rethe same. And as you get closer
(08:31):
and you bend down to smell one,it's alive, it's resonant. It's
part of us. And the other wasmade in a factory, wherever it
was, and there's no vitality. Soessential oils are our
touchstone, because ofagriculture plants and the
(08:53):
realness, and how we're allconnected.
Brad Black: (08:55):
Essential oils are like the bar. We hear the
saying, what? No bull in thechina shop, or however that
goes. We can't embrace all ofthe wonderful attributes in a
pure essential oil. And so thateliminates a lot of ingredients,
why would you spoil an essentialoil with an ingredient that
(09:16):
doesn't enhance it more, or atleast maintain it? And so
through the years, that has justbeen a consistency. They're more
expensive, they're harder towork with. The shelf life isn't
as long. There's just a lot ofreasons not to do it. Yet, it is
the core of our brand and theethos.
Justine Reichman: (09:34):
Today, everybody's all about
transparency and what's in it.And we're all reading these
labels to know, do we know theseproducts? Do we know these
ingredients? Can we evenpronounce them? And I know that
way back when it almost soundslike you were at the forefront
of this a little bit, makingthis available and accessible to
(09:54):
people. So I have to imagine,what role did education play in
that for you? Because peoplehave to make a choice to buy
this, and there's lots of goodreasons, but I don't know that
people originally knew why.
Susan Griffin-Black: (10:08):
They didn't. Once they used the
product, or sampled the product,or smelled the product, then
they had a response. And thatwas our original core customer
base that we still have. But Ithink in terms of education, it
was really in the experiencemore than anything.
Justine Reichman: (10:29):
Oh, interesting, because there's
lots of products out there. Iknow when I go to the store now,
more than ever, I'm readingwhat's on the label. So when I
read your label, and I readanother label, because there's a
lot of people in this space now,what is something that you want
people to recognize about yoursthat's different than the
Brad Black: (10:46):
Our request is, don't look at the back of the
others?
product. Look at the front ofit. There are certain guidelines
that we have to follow. Yougotta list all of the
ingredients in order. Yet, whatpeople aren't aware of is who's
making it and how do they makedecisions making the product.
And one example of getting lostin some of these ingredients,
(11:08):
orange juice is something thatwas brought up. So orange juice
from concentrate is the same onthe back of a label as orange
juice freshly squeezed. And soif we're going to list it inky
wise, orange juice is going tobe on there. Yet, we do know
that there's a huge differencebetween orange juice from
concentrate and freshly squeezedorange juice. And so the
(11:31):
education, or the request toconsumers is look at who's
making the decisions. That'slike, what's the ethos of the
company? And that's the pointthat really sticks out for us.
Some of our compadres out therein the industry, but most don't.
Most are driving down costs,driving up marketing and trying
to create a perception versuswe're just trying to go to work
(11:53):
every day and do our best. And Ithink that's how it shows up
differently in the product.
Susan Griffin-Black: (11:58):
I also think, because we committed,
because of Brad's expertise andmindset in terms of can do
flexibility, just being able tofigure it out to being makers,
because we couldn't find peopleto make products the way that we
(12:19):
wanted to. So it was just thebeginning of the natural foods
business, and we took our cuesfrom food and then into personal
care as much as possible. And wegot to grow up with making the
standards and participating inthe natural products industry
(12:42):
from the time Whole Foodsprobably had, what? 40 stores.
So we've been such a part ofthis really supportive and
unique community of people, andthat kept us going a lot. I
think that we've all kept eachother going a lot.
Justine Reichman: (13:00):
And it sounds like you've actually been part
of the process to create thestandards and to create change
in that space in very much of aleadership way, not like you
were coming into it late in thegame. You were there in the
beginning, trying to set thosestandards, which I think is
amazing.
Susan Griffin-Black: (13:17):
Well, I think that the other thing
that's unique is neither of ushas any background in chemistry
fragrance, so we didn't know thedifference. And that happens
sometimes with the startingpoint. Our starting point was
we're totally committed toessential oils. So what does
(13:39):
that mean? We didn't even reallyknow anything about synthetic
fragrance. But later when peoplecame to try to sell us synthetic
fragrance, and it was so muchless expensive, so much easier
to work with. But we were like,you can get Vinaigrette at
(14:03):
McDonald's on a salad, and AliceWaters with her five
ingredients. Same thing withingredients and lavender. Is it
lavender? Is it from the samespecies? Is it from France? Is
(14:25):
it unadulterated? Do you knowhow it's grown? Do you know the
weather? All of those thingsmake it all real.
Justine Reichman: (14:33):
And it sounds like there's a lot of education.
As you said, you took thosecrash courses to be able to
learn it, but you also got ahuge amount of training on the
job. We did a huge amount oftraining. You get this idea, and
it's an infant of an idea. Andall of a sudden, you're learning
all these things. As an founder,as somebody that's built these
businesses from the beginning,what would you say to another
(14:55):
founder that's tuning in todaythat might be listening and say,
okay, you're right. I have anidea. But what do I do next?
Brad Black: (15:02):
We know the path. The path is really what feels
right and what resonates. Andessential oils has been a big
part of our path. Another veryimportant aspect that we
followed is community. We madeproducts for our kids, like, why
wouldn't we do our best for ourkids and our broader family, and
(15:23):
then for close friends and forfarther away friends, and then
it's just consumers. Then itexpands from there to the earth,
just taking care. So these wereinitial guiding principles for
us. And so a message to otherfounders is these feelings and
beliefs that really give us thepassion to be in the business,
(15:47):
to get over those consistentbumps, bad cash flow and all
those issues. It's the passionthat really drives it. So having
some clarity to really whatdrives essential oils, community
and there's some others, thefolks that we work with here,
we're just two people on the onthe big gear, and it's about all
of us. So if we want to create acompany that we want to work
(16:10):
for, we also want to have acompany that they want to work
for.
Susan Griffin-Black: (16:14):
Yeah. those are the same things, I
think. And I would also say too,that we created products that we
wanted to use. Sometimes in moretraditional marketing, and
certainly now with AI andeverything being so data driven
and so much analysis. Thatwasn't the case when we started.
(16:37):
It was sort of a reallyinstinctual decision to say,
smell this, do you like this?And then pass it around the
office and say, you know what?You use this? And that's how we
started, because we we wanted itto be, it was the greater good.
It was for us, it was for ourkids, it was for family, it was
(16:59):
for community. And because wewere some part of something
bigger in the natural productsindustry, which was really a
better for you industry, andcommitment, then that momentum
was just really helpful instaying on our path to have that
Justine Reichman: (17:17):
I find it so interesting. Because I talked to
support.
a lot of founders, and a lot ofpeople are like, well, I had a
passion for it. And it's thesame reason for me. I get up
every morning excited to do whatI'm going to do. I want to have
an impact. I want to make adifference. I want to inspire. I
want to create change. And asI'm talking to you and to other
founders, people are telling youthe same thing. They're inspired
(17:38):
to do this. And I feel like it'sa very special place to be able
to have a business to that youlike, that you'd want to work
with, that you could supportother people, to be happy to
come to, to provide alivelihood, and to make
something that's better for you.
Susan Griffin-Black: (17:52):
Because I think that we all value self
expression. And self expression,meaning that you're really
living your life in accordancewith your values, and it's a
privilege. Although it can be,but it's not taught. It's not
(18:13):
the values of our culture. Thevalues of our culture are more
like, are you successful? Howmuch money? And I think that was
just part of our motive, becausewe had to pay, of course, rent.
But that wasn't the driver. Andso people who start companies
(18:36):
who want to get in, want to getout, and the product is kind of
over there because they think itwill be successful.
Justine Reichman: (18:43):
It's a different conversation, I think.
Brad Black: (18:47):
To expand on that a little bit. And you mentioned
this before about a desire thatmany people have to want to
contribute. We want to see andfeel that there's a need for us.
There's 8 billion plus people inthe world, and we want to see
that we are needed. It's a core,heartfelt thing. What's missing
(19:12):
a lot in business and clarityfrom other founders is, how can
we contribute while beingpassionate to our own visions?
How does community fit in? We'restrong as the weakest link of,
say employees here. We're inthis all together. That's
overused. Yet, we make productsfor us, and we make products for
(19:34):
you. They are the same. All ofour plastic bottles are cost 15%
more because they're made fromrecycled content. We don't
charge more for that. We want tosell our product at local
grocery stores for 599. We'renot charging 1,299, although we
could. And many people do so.How do we choose to contribute
(19:58):
and engage with this concept of,I want to be of value. I want to
be in service to others. I wantothers to see me as something
that's positive in their lives.And that's up to them to decide.
It's not up to us to decide.
Justine Reichman: (20:12):
Do you think that conversation, I think it
has myself evolved over theyears. Because when I graduated
from university, everybody wasgoing into banking, advertising,
all these different things. Notto say that there's anything bad
with them, but it was like, myclients were UPS and these other
things. I didn't personally feellike I was having an impact in
(20:33):
the world. And when I thinkabout it, that conversation for
myself only happened around theyear 2000 where all of a sudden,
I changed. And I was like, no, Iwant to do this.
Susan Griffin-Black: (20:42):
What made you change?
Justine Reichman: (20:45):
Well, I was at the movies on 19th Street in
New York City. And basically,there was a community of people.
It was like sorority that got upto make a difference, to lobby
something in this film that Iwas watching. And I was like,
that's it. It's community. Weneed to come together to create
a platform where people canconnect and do different things.
And for me, I was in the middleof a career transition, so I
(21:07):
created a community aroundpeople connecting to make more
informed choices around theircareers, and to bring speakers
in so that people could figureout how to do that, how to lean
into what they're good at, andwhat they're passionate about.
It was called Career ChangeNetwork. I started that around
the year 2000. And basically,Essential Ingredients is kind of
the same model, which isbringing people together,
(21:29):
sharing resources, and givingpeople a platform so that they
can inspire others to make moreinformed choices or innovate in
a different way based onstories, information and
education. That's what startedwith this movie. I'm embarrassed
to tell you what movie it was.It's called Legally Blonde. But
you remember when they all getup? That was the moment. I know
(21:50):
it sounds silly, the story. Inever saw it. I've heard what
the blonde hair girl, what's hername? Witherspoon. And she gets
all her dog, was gonna be herdog's mom, was gonna be used for
animal testing. So she wastrying to get this bill passed.
(22:10):
If there's like a line you callthe sorority, and every single
person puts their phone up andtries to get the next person to
help out. And that was sort ofthe inspiration, as silly as it
says.
Susan Griffin-Black: (22:19):
It's not silly. The way we got into our
first Whole Foods, because thebuyers were like, you had to go
one store at a time, right? Wecalled first. Brad used to call.
Hello. Do you have EO? GuerillaMarketing at its finest. And
(22:40):
then we got all the people atour daughter's school to put
notes on the community board tosay, where's EO? We really want
EO. And finally, they responded.It sort of goes back to that
Margaret Mead, totally overusedsaying. When you got a small
(23:02):
passionate group of people, youcan change the world. And that's
really what does it?
Justine Reichman: (23:08):
I think so. I'm happy to be in your company
to hear these stories, becauseit just resonates so much with
me. I hope our founders as well.Because I think so many of the
founders that I talked to, theywere having a kid, they found a
need, or they moved to a newplace, and they realized it's
something that was missing fromtheir new place, and it's all
from a place of fashion. And toshow how somebody could build a
(23:30):
business that is impactful makesmoney. So it's mission and
margin together, and support alocal community is huge. There's
two things I'd love to touch on.One is the community aspect.
Because you're pretty big in ourcommunity here in the Bay Area.
(23:52):
People know EO. You go into thehotels, it's in there. You go
into the restaurants, it's inthere in the bathrooms. Before I
was NextGen Purpose, I wasNextGenChef, and you guys gave
us antibacterial soap for one ofour events. It's everywhere. I
just want to know what role thecommunity that we live in
(24:14):
outside of the EO house hereplays for you guys.
Brad Black: (24:18):
There's a little bit of a selfish response in
that. And that is localcommunity. There's a variety of
different types of communities.Local community provides an
opportunity to have a face toface, to be an actual physical
relationship. That's one thingthat's really important. And
then the second part of it is wewant to show what our intention
(24:41):
is through our actions, and ourcommunity is a sounding board
for us. Talk is cheap. Ideas areabundant. Yet, how you play the
game of life in business, athome and all avenues is
reflected in relationshipswithin communities, in the
feedback and so you. It's aboutthe actions, and then it's about
(25:02):
engaging enough to see ifthere's resonance and
appreciation for actions. Ican't determine, hey, I want to
be nice. It's baseless. Yet, ifpeople start to engage with me
and say, they're not going tosay that, Brad, you're nice. But
there's ways for others todecide how we contribute to
them. It's not up to me todecide.
Susan Griffin-Black: (25:23):
Yeah. I think there's this idea that we
sort of reflect off of eachother. We all sort of hold up a
mirror, and then it's ourability to respond. And when
you're doing something for usthat was really wholehearted and
(25:44):
values aligned, regardless ofthe difficulty. And there have
been many, many, many thatthere's sort of a through line,
because it really is heartfelt.That is resonant because it's so
human, and that's really thesort of foundation of
transparency. The foundation oftransparency isn't, look at us.
(26:09):
We're transparent. We're goingto just tell you, ask us
anything. We'll give you ourmost honest response. But it's
not to get anything. It's togive. We were just talking about
this about giving back. There'sno back. It's throw away.
(26:30):
Where's the way? There's noback. People, humans have always
given in the best and worst ofcircumstances. It's our natural
tendency.
Justine Reichman: (26:41):
It's important to give and receive, I
believe. I receive, you give,and I receive. And then we have
this goes over and over, andover again. And I think that
sort of supports the whole ideaof it, because it keeps feeding
it, so to speak. The morereception you get, the more you
keep giving. Goes back andforth.
Brad Black: (27:01):
Yes. And then the other part of that that I
struggle with a little bit is Ilove to give. Receiving is
little hard. And so in order forthe dynamic to work, I got to
work on myself to be able toreceive. And it's just such an
interesting dynamic andconversation. It's got to go
both ways.
Justine Reichman: (27:21):
I think a lot of people have trouble with one
or the other. It's not uncommonat all. I love to give too. It's
kind of, they say your lovelanguage. I love to give, and
there's so many ways to give. Itcould be giving verbally. It
could be giving a gift. It couldbe so many doing something in a
positive way, so many differentthings. But receiving, like you
said, it's a little bit morechallenging. I was very good at
(27:49):
it as a kid. Here in in Marin,and specifically Mill Valley,
I'm going to say there's a lotof conversation around
sustainability. When we did thisevent in Mill Valley, I remember
the rules and regulations aroundwhat you were allowed to serve
things on and put things in,which takes me to your packaging
(28:10):
and the sustainability aspect,and what role it plays in it for
you, I know you mentioned thatit's recycled plastic, which is
obviously great. But there's somany different issues today that
people are talking about. And ona local level, every area has
different rules around what youcan recycle, what you can
compost, what you can do. I'mjust wondering how that played
(28:32):
out for you with your product?
Susan Griffin-Black: (28:33):
Friends of mine wrote a book like 35 years
ago called Paper or Plastic.They were very advanced too.
There were people who were atSprit and people who started the
Rainforest Action Network, andthe OG environmentalists, and
we've really been on a parallelpath, really looking, watching
(28:58):
and learning. Not more proactivethan reactive, and not hopping
on the latest trend, because theproblems are real. When you make
something, there's always waste.So then you have to counter that
by being zero waste. And glassis an option, or aluminum tubes
(29:20):
might be an option. But themaking of that packaging and the
energy that it takes to makethat packaging. There's all
kinds of challenges across theboard in making those decisions,
and we really tried to studywere practical, And the idea of
(29:40):
innovation really has to be longterm.
Justine Reichman: (29:44):
So with that in mind, how did you make your
decisions for what you're using?And how you do it?
Brad Black: (29:50):
This sustainable thing just makes me want to gag.
I believe in the intention andthe concept of it. It started
with organic, then it moved intosustainability. Now, it's this
whole concept of regen. Andwhere the conversation needs to
be is, how do you make the rightdecision? Regen is all right?
(30:13):
Well, let's fix something. Let'srenew it. Yet, we're not talking
about why we got to the place torenew. It's what Susan said
before about giving back. Well,people have a sense of giving
back because they're taking alot, so then they feel better
because they take a lot. And nowthat we're giving back, well,
the conversation should be,don't take as much. So how do
(30:36):
you make responsible decisionsin finance? How do you make
responsible decisions inmarketing? We're not just trying
to create a perception inmarketing that we care about the
earth that's really comes out inactions. And so I love the idea
about what is responsible. Let'shave a conversation about how we
(30:58):
make decisions, and not kickingthis can down the road. Not
having the bigger conversationof, we need to take care of the
planet and be sustainable in thefirst decision that we make
about packaging. And so we'remaking decisions on packaging
really for us, because I don'tthink that a large percentage of
(31:20):
the population really cares.Look at the number of people
that don't recycle.
Justine Reichman: (31:25):
I'm with you. I find the whole thing very
confusing, and I also don't knowhow to make those choices. Let's
participate in, what does thatmean to us?
take it out of this product.Look at food. Go out to dinner.
Now, I have leftovers. Am Ibetter off taking my leftovers
and putting them in the takeawaystuff that's made of styrofoam,
plastic or whatever? Or am Ibetter off leaving them? Now, I
(31:47):
ask this because if I bring homeanything in styrofoam or
whatever, Tim's always like,that such wasteful. I'm like, I
tried to bring a container, butthey don't want to use my
container. So am I better offwasting the food? And I use that
as a small example.
(32:14):
Yeah, right. How do I make thatchoice? How do you make that
choice?
Susan Griffin-Black: (32:17):
It's very different depending on beliefs,
education, how you live yourlife, values. Marin is crazy.
The garbage situation in Marin,I can't tell you how much time I
spend re-sorting.
Justine Reichman: (32:33):
In Larkspur, too. I have to keep reading to
figure out, can this be recycledor not?
Susan Griffin-Black: (32:40):
We do dumpster dives here, which is
how we got to be zero waste.
Brad Black: (32:46):
Wow. I think styrofoam takeaway at the
restaurant is better than paper.The reason is that people see
that styrofoam is garbage, andthen they'll throw it away. The
thing with paper is that it'sstill not recyclable, right?
(33:08):
Because it's like, if you take apiece of paper and put water on
it, the water is going to absorbthrough the paper, and then it's
just going to go through. Youget a paper cup at the coffee
place. It's lined with plastic,and so it's not recyclable. And
so there's this misperception,or there's this multiple
(33:29):
billions of dollars spent oncreating a perception that
somebody is actually doing good.But really, what they're doing
is spending billions of dollarscreating a perception, which is
why we'll go back to what youstarted with. You want to look
at the front of the bottle andhave an understanding of who
owns it. How do they go aboutmaking decisions making their
(33:49):
products? Plastic is an issue,and we do need to evolve away
from plastic. Yet, we got tofirst work on recycling, and
then we have to come up withalternatives. But it's not going
to happen really quickly. Youdon't want glass bottles that
your kids use in the bath.That's just creates another
(34:10):
issue. So there's an evolutionhere, and it's common sense.
Susan Griffin-Black: (34:15):
But also, you have other problems with
glass in terms of manufacturingand shipping. So it's a kind of
50 to 100 year process.
Justine Reichman: (34:30):
Probably not in our lifetime.
Susan Griffin-Black: (34:31):
Well, it's evolving. Because if you're
thinking about it, it'sevolving. One of our best
friends competitors, Dr.Bronner's, doing their products
now half in recycled plastic andhalf in milk cartons for refill,
and they did an extensive studyto determine that that was the
(34:55):
best way to the best next thing,because of weight and energy
resourcing and so forth. I don'tknow, really. I mean, from an
esthetic point of view, not somuch. It's too confusing for
people. It's not intuitive. Forus, we're tremendous respect and
(35:16):
we're very different in ourpresentation. So part of it is
that sincerely, that from adesign point of view and what
you would want to use, and howthat feels. And then the other
part of it equally as importantis the functionality, and
knowing what to do before andafter you have that product.
Brad Black: (35:37):
I just want to go back. Something comes up in that
conversation, but it goes backto the takeout container. So
we've been intentional here atwork to move away from this idea
of work life balance to lifebalance. And we can't give
someone life balance, but we canoffer them an opportunity
through their time at work forgreater life balance. And so I
(36:01):
went to Okinawa, and I checkedout because it's a blue zone.
People live to 100 plus years,and they have a lot of different
types of habits. And one of thethings is that they only eat 80%
of the food that they want. Sothe answer to, what should you
take out your extra food in?Well, don't have extra food. I'm
(36:22):
a big foodie. I eat, and Iovereat. Not many people do.
However, I'm trying to start anew habit where I'm ordering
about 80%. It's a little bit ofa bummer because one more bite
of that hamburger or whateversalad, it would be great. Yet,
it's ordering the 80% so thatyou don't have to have a
(36:43):
container to take it away.
Justine Reichman: (36:44):
When I'm at home, or if I'm a friend's house
for dinner, I always take alittle bit, and I go back for
more because I don't like toleave it on my plate. I also
like to make sure I like it. Iwas raised that my parents were
like, you don't have to eat yourwhole plate. Take a little, and
try it. And if you're hungry, goback for more. But I think it's
a philosophy also, and how wewere raised, and how we do
(37:06):
things. If you go to the Midwestand you get these enormous
portions, and it's the cleanplate club, right? That's one
thing. Then you have otherplaces where you pay more, and
you get less. Now, I generallylike less, not that I want to
pay more, but I don't need more.I appreciate what I'm getting. I
don't need more to appreciateit. But I think it's a really
(37:30):
interesting conversation,because there's a lot of people
that feel like they need toclean their plate.
Susan Griffin-Black: (37:34):
I think more is not better. Better is
better. And culturally and forall sorts of reasons, we always
think more is better, bigger isbetter. And it's just not true
in my experience. I can onlyspeak for myself, but I'm just
saying that there's theperception of scarcity, or the
(37:59):
fear of scarcity, or whateverthat is really contributes to
the whole cycle.
Justine Reichman: (38:06):
During COVID, what was it? The toilet paper or
wate? I mean, there was avariety of hand sanitizer.
Everybody collected it like theycouldn't get any more, and I
think that that mindset that'sgoing to impact the next
generation of people that livethrough that and how they then
do things. I feel like comingfrom New York and growing up in
(38:28):
Manhattan, we lived in anapartment and those things. And
if you move to the suburbs, thecountry, upstate or Pittsburgh,
you get a much bigger house fora lot less money. And then we
move here, and you get nothingfor a lot of money. My point is
that my whole mindset aroundwhat I want and what I need
(38:48):
changes based on my experience,on where we are. So when I came
here and I went to go look forplaces to live, I'm like, wow,
this place is old and dumpy. Andit's really expensive. But
people pay a lot of money for itbecause they like the
surroundings. So we change whatbecomes important to us and how
we value what we have. And sowhether it's your house, or your
(39:10):
food, or your ingredients, itcomes down to what you're
saying, which is the person, thepeople. Because I just run it
full circle, at least for myselfthat I was like, all of a
sudden, I'm making thosechoices. And people are looking
at the choices I'm making, asopposed to making those
decisions because somebody elseis telling me it's lived
experience. I know that there'sso many interesting topics that
(39:36):
we talked about, and I love thatbecause I think it's expansive,
both for our guests and ourlisteners, as well as myself
participating in thisconversation. I really love
that. I do want to circle backso that those people that are
interested in making moreinformed choices and building a
business where the community,your employees are part of it,
(40:00):
and family, and having that goodexperience. Can you give people
just a couple ideas or conceptsthat they can think about to
make sure that they include tohave a similar result?
Brad Black: (40:11):
When we stand in life as 20, 30 or 40 years old,
we look forward, and there's alot of unknown. What I have
started do as I get older is I'mlooking backwards in the future.
In other words, on my deathbed.I want to look back. My legacy
is important. There are somethings that I want to accomplish
(40:33):
in life. Now in business, youcould look at it the same way.
How do you want to give backprofits and all that sort of
stuff? You can actually take aplace in the future, look back
and then create sort of a ladderto get to. It's about each of
the steps, and that's been veryhelpful for me because it
creates a known end point. Hey,I want to get to the roof, so I
(40:55):
take each step to go up. You cando the same way in business and
in life. You can set thesethings, and then you can look
back to see if each step isreasonable.
Justine Reichman: (41:03):
I couldn't agree more. I also think that
people don't realize that thesesteps take time. How often do we
hear that, oh, remember whenOatly got really popular and
people thought it happenedovernight? That took a lot of
years. That didn't happenovernight. So I think that
that's something reallyimportant for people to remember
that it takes time.
Susan Griffin-Black: (41:24):
And to value that, it takes time. It's
perfectly okay, as long asyou're learning, as long as you
feel a sense of purpose andmeaning. And a sense of
belonging to something that'sbigger, that it's expansive,
then it's fine that it takestime. That's how you're spending
(41:45):
your day. And so the enjoymentof how you're spending your day,
or the challenge of how you'respending your day, or the
ability to be present with whatis happening now and who you're
with now is a key part of that,because that's all we got.
Justine Reichman: (42:04):
I looked back the other day and I was like,
wow, I did this. And all of asudden, all these things were
coming to fruition. And I thinkthat that's pivotal for people
to realize, all of a sudden,that hard work turns into
something tangible, and it takesa while. It didn't happen
overnight. You created the handcream that's humming French
lavender, right? But all of asudden, you have these things,
(42:26):
and then you expand on them, andthen you have the next thing.
Susan Griffin-Black: (42:30):
And you keep evolving, keep evolving,
and you keep questioning, andyou keep learning. Lifelong
learning is so important becauseit keeps us flexible, vital and
curious.
Brad Black: (42:44):
A minute is a minute. How do you choose to
spend that minute and lookingforward, it's an unknown. But
looking back, I want to lookback at the last minute, and I
want to be peaceful now. I knowlife can be a bit of a cluster,
and we spend a lot of time inthis space called worry. We're
(43:04):
worrying about a future eventthat hasn't unfolded yet, so
it's kind of get out of that.Now, bad cash flow can create a
lot of worry in business. Ifthere's a way that you can
actually be very specific aboutwhat those cash flow issues,
it's just an example that couldbring up. Write them down, and
just start to address it. Getout of the worry space that's
(43:25):
more of an emotional feeling,and move it into a transactional
space that can actually then beaddressed.
Justine Reichman: (43:33):
I think that's brilliant. My mom always
said, wait to worry.
Susan Griffin-Black: (43:36):
Great advice. I love that.
Brad Black: (43:39):
And easier said than done.
Justine Reichman: (43:41):
Totally. But if you can remember to say that,
that's half the battle, right?You're halfway there.
Susan Griffin-Black: (43:48):
Also when you're in the flow and you're
just doing whatever you'redoing, and you're not worrying
because you're just with it, ofcourse, it's lasts as long as it
lasts. But you can see thedifference of being in the
present, being in the flow andwhere that takes you. Then when
(44:09):
things stop and you have tooverthink things, and then you
start thinking about things, andthen the worry comes in. And
Justine Reichman: (44:16):
And worry, you get this immediate reaction
then so you just really have toreturn to, how does your body feel?
in your head. We have fear, yes,and that lasts for a little bit
of time. But if you can getthrough that time and not react
during that time, you can getpast it and be more thoughtful
(44:38):
about it, as opposed toreactionary.
Brad Black: (44:40):
And where to work on with that isn't about trying
to create less worry in yourlife, because worry will always
come along. The practice pointon this is knowing that a worry
place will come up and beingactive in getting out of the
worry. It's like meditation.Meditation, for me, isn't about
being in that zen mode. Momentmeditation, for me, is knowing
(45:02):
that I'm going to get knockedout of meditation, and then
having the awareness to get backon track. So worry bad cash
flow, all those things willhappen. Be less resistant toward
that, but more determined abouthow to get out of it.
Susan Griffin-Black: (45:17):
I think that's really true. I also think
that meditation isn't aboutlearning how to meditate better.
It's about really observing whathappens in our mind when we sit
still, and being able to be morecompassionate, curious,
(45:39):
hopefully loving and accepting.So it's not a matter of getting
good at these things. It's amatter, to me, of accepting what
is actually happening right now,and then working with that as
best as we're able.
Justine Reichman: (45:56):
Talked about the meditation thing for a
second. I remember one time thatI went to this meditation This
is 100 years ago, but I wentthere and they're like, okay,
you need to create a place inyour mind and focus on that. And
that never really worked for me.I can picture myself on a beach
in the Virgin Islands, but I wasso busy trying to figure out
what they meant to do that Ididn't realize I had already
(46:18):
been meditating. Every time Isit on the train and I'm going
up the Hudson Valley, and I'mlooking out at the trees, and my
mind is blank because all I'mdoing is looking there. And to
me, that was very meditative.
Brad Black: (46:30):
It's a good example. I'm not a good
meditator either.
Justine Reichman: (46:34):
We do it, and we're not thinking about it
sometimes.
Susan Griffin-Black: (46:37):
And that really is what it is.
Justine Reichman: (46:39):
Well, guys, I want to thank you so much for
joining me today. I know thatour community is going to love
this episode because it reallytalked about all the essential
ingredients of everything, theproduct, building business,
everything. It was great to meetyou both. So thank you.
Susan Griffin-Black: (46:53):
Thank you. It was really great to all be
together.
Brad Black: (46:57):
Appreciate the conversation
Justine Reichman: (47:00):
Thank you to our community that tunes in each
week to hear theseconversations. And if you do
have any questions, what's thebest way for anybody to reach
out?
Brad Black: (47:08):
We have eoproducts.com, I think that's a
good place to start.
Susan Griffin-Black: (47:15):
Just to take a little further,
susan@eoproducts.com, andbradb@eoproducts.com.
Justine Reichman: (47:23):
Awesome. I'm Justine@nextgenpurpose.com.
Thanks so much. Thank you,Chloe.
Susan Griffin-Black: (47:29):
Thank you.
Brad Black: (47:29):
Thank you Chloe.
Justine Reichman: (47:31):
Hey, all. I just wanted to thank you guys,
whether you're our new loyallisteners, whether you're
watching it and viewing it fromYouTube, but thank you for
tuning in today. I want to thankour guests for giving us an
inside look at what it takes tobuild a brand, and to root
yourselves in sustainability andtransparency, so thank you. And
(47:53):
for those that are tuning intoday that are new and really
don't know how to find ourvideocast, or are not sure of
our outlets, our videocast canbe found either on our website,
@nextgenpurpose.com, or onYouTube. We have an Essential
Ingredients channel. And forthose that want to tune into the
podcast, wherever you listen toyour podcast, you can find the
Essential Ingredients Podcastwith Justine, so thanks again
(48:16):
for tuning in. See you nextweek.
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