July 17, 2025 • 61 mins
The team behind Anchorage Barbershop discuss their journey into the barber world, focusing on client satisfaction and transitioning to owning a barbershop. They cover their business model, the impact of COVID-19, and hiring strategies. The episode explores haircuts, customer preferences, and hair loss products, along with business growth and expansion strategies. They discuss subscription services for client retention, partnership dynamics, and future plans, including licensing and regulations.
(0:00) Intro and guest introduction
(2:06) Transition to barber world and client satisfaction
(7:13) Opening a barbershop and business model
(12:34) COVID-19 impact on business
(18:39) Hiring practices and maintaining quality
(22:41) Haircuts, customer preferences, and hair loss products
(25:28) Business growth and expansion strategies
(29:19) Subscription services for client retention
(33:34) Partnership dynamics
(37:43) Future business plans and licensing
(41:18) Recognitions and dealing with regulations
(42:15) Marketing strategies and tattooed barbers
(45:31) Comprehensive client retention strategies
(50:34) Choosing business locations and haircut trends
(55:16) Hair health and overcoming business challenges
(57:48) Personal favorites and recommendations
(1:00:04) Final thoughts
- Building strong relationships with clients is crucial for repeat business and can be achieved through excellent customer service and personal connections.
- Adapting the business model to avoid common industry pitfalls, such as excessive fees for employees, can create a more supportive and loyal team environment.
- Navigating challenges like the COVID-19 shutdown requires flexibility, resourcefulness, and strong community support, demonstrating the importance of resilience and adaptability in business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Greetings, Tim Ryan.
(00:01):
Hello, Zach. How are you?
You know you, I'm great. You would think that, you know, after 269, 270 ish episodes, whatever number this is, somewhere up there, you would think that we would have figured out a better intro than just be like, hello, but here we are. I kinda like the spontaneity. Don't ask me to spell that.
Wait. Well, definitely not. And nothing nothing scripted per se. That is for sure. But we always open up the show with a little snippet of, what is soon to come.
A little candor.
In the
Oh, this is gonna be this is gonna be any anything going on crazy I need to know about?
I think the next hour will be interesting.
Okay. So back in 2017 no. No. Back in 2012, I met at least one of these individuals, maybe before then, at a barbershop. And so since then, these individuals have gone on to open their own shop.
I believe, like, in 2018, 2019, we'll get all the facts right. But they went out on their own, built their own thing, have won many awards, very popular place, cool vibe. And I'm excited about this. I actually have interviewed one of these individuals before. Oh, really?
Fantastic time many years ago when I used to have the TV show, Hampton Roads Business Weekly.
Oh, okay.
You actually might have been there that day. Might have been the same day that we shot at the the Push Comedy Theater.
Very well could be. Wait. I mean, I did I did shoot an episode there. Yeah. But I don't yeah.
Well, I'm going into this going into this blind, so this will be fun.
Us too. So
I I had a conversation with Heather who is the the lady on the right.
I'm Kelly. No last name. I'm Ashley. Heather.
Well, hello.
Well, welcome. Welcome to the Fervent Four show.
Thank you. Excited to be here.
Okay. So to get into barber world, like, do you guys grow up, like like, really enjoying hair and things like that? Like, how how does how does one get into that world or recognize that that's something that that you have a passion for? Because I know Heather, you know, I think she used to do photography, still does photography a little bit, and maybe something around that. But how does how does hair wanting to make people look good become the thing that you guys wanna
(00:22):
I had a friend whose mom was a hairstylist. She wasn't a barber, and she always made it look so fun. And she always had cash in her pocket because they tipped her. And I was like, oh, man. I wanna do hair because I always looked up to her.
So then I was like, I'm just gonna go to school, do hair. Well, then I started doing women's hair because I didn't know barbering was a thing. I mean, I knew there was barbers, but I was like, I really don't wanna work on women. We're just I just it takes a long time. We got really nothing in common.
They are never really truly satisfied with your hair. So then I was like, I moved to Virginia and started working at another barbershop. And I was like, okay. I only wanna work on men's hair. No more women.
So Okay.
There's a lot to go off of there. Okay.
Where where did you I where did where did you move from prior where were you before Virginia?
Massachusetts.
Massachusetts. K.
Yes.
Mhmm.
Big New England fan. Big fan of deflategate. You know?
Wait. So allegedly. That's Allegedly. Cheap. Yeah.
I mean,
I've never spoken to Tom about it, have you?
Nope. No. Just
I'm kind of Bill,
not Tom.
I used to yeah. But that's how I got into it.
My Okay. So is it is it difficult, though, like, knowing that people are never satisfied from that perspective? Like, that sounds like something interesting, like, in being in business to know that that is a difficult task at hand. Like, that's
Sometimes. I mean, I guess you just kinda have to know that, like, if that person is never satisfied no matter what you do, they're not gonna be happy with it. So you have to know it's not you. It's that person. Like, you can do anything to help try to get them to be satisfied, but sometimes they're just not.
Some men are the same way. Some men are. But
(00:43):
That's true. Yeah. Sometimes it's not necessarily that it's anything you do, but sometimes it's they're a better fit with somebody else. Yeah. Yeah.
But that's with anybody. It doesn't matter if they're male or female. They're just a better fit with a different person doing their hair because the personalities click better.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Especially how do you get into this world?
My mother. Oh. Well, you said how did I get to the world? No.
Sorry. Oh,
okay. I kinda know.
See if we did.
It was something I could do no matter where my ex husband got stationed, and I just kind of happened to be good at it. And then I fell into the passion for it. So
This is an area that I think there's always been like, and maybe it is still ripe for disruption, but I'm curious. Like, are you are you all hipster hipster type of barber? Is that I don't know what the right term is, but all the like, hair haircuts got really, really expensive in, like, the hipsters with the the fades and the beards and all that kind of good stuff. Is that is that is that your your target market? Or
I feel like we do more professional. Like, we have a lot of, like, professional guys who come in, and we do a lot of military and a lot of gunfight contracting too. Yeah. And a lot of baseball haircuts. A lot of and we do a lot of kids because of, like, the mullets they like.
And Oh,
is that the end thing right now?
Mhmm. Yeah. Mullets and, like, it's what?
Lord have mercy.
Oh, boy.
I had I had a, like, a faux hawk for a little while.
You did?
Yeah. I need to bring that back.
And you had you kinda have something. Yeah.
Yeah. It's it's yeah.
(01:04):
You should have did your hair today.
You know? Of all days. You have all days to do your hair.
Don't know. You would think, well, I mean, why change it today? You know, just be natural with the, you know, deal done type of thing. I'm sure my barber is not very happy when they see this during this. So
Oh, lord. Yeah. I don't know.
We're are we Heather will replace the eye roll with the sip of beverage. Yeah. Yeah.
Next question, please.
Okay. So you guys how long has it been? Seven years, six years, five years? When did you guys open?
We're coming up on eight years. August 2017. Mhmm.
Wow. Mhmm. That's crazy. Okay. And so I guess being a barber is is kinda like a solo contractor in in itself.
Right? And so you kinda have some business acumen from that perspective. But was that ever something that when you guys were working at a different shop that you thought that, like, hey. Like, maybe I do wanna do this. Is that ever in the cards?
Like, how does that come come to be?
Well, so before I moved here, I was living in Texas, and I was running a shop down there. And then when I moved here and I ended up working with these ladies, we had many of conversations in Heather's backyard by the pool Yeah. About actually running our own shop together. So just because it was we thought it would just be a better fit Yeah. Yeah.
For our well-being and mental health. Yeah.
I I feel like we had outgrown the barbershop that we were at. Me and Heather had worked there eight and a half years. We had a completely full book. We, we had these clients for eight and a half years, and they only would were coming to that shop to see us. And we were like, well, how can we better ourselves?
Like, what's the next step? I never went into barbering being like, I wanna own my own shop. But I feel like for me, Heather's, my safety blanket, and she was like, we need to we need to branch out. And Ashley was always with us, and Ashley was going to school to do, like, business organization. So it just we got the ball rolling.
We were like, we need to advance our career because we kinda felt stuck. So we were like at first, we were like, well, maybe we can rent spots together. And then we were, like, did more research, and we were like, we're probably just gonna open up our own shop. Yeah. And because renting costs more than just opening Yeah.
A spot.
Yeah. I don't
know you
missed him, but some play some places, like, they have you can, like, rent a seat type of thing. That's right.
That's, yeah, that's what I wanted to get into is the unit economics of all of this. Like, do you all just split, like, the fixed cost a third, a third, and a third? Like, this is how much rent is. This is how much power is. You each pay your third, and then you take whatever you bring in.
(01:25):
How do you how do you divide up business and revenue and all that kind of good stuff?
We pay ourselves as a w two employee. So we're employees of our own business.
And you're responsible for your own book of business, or do you share or or is that shared across
the
business, so to speak?
So it runs like any other barbershop, I guess, a technical sense. We're still a w two paid employee. The only difference is we don't make an hourly wage. We only make a commission. So if nobody sits in our chair, we're still not making any money.
So we still only get a percentage of whatever sits in our chair. But whatever percentage is left over, all of that still goes pumped right back into our business. So, like, everybody else that's working for us, all of that extra money, that's what goes to paying our bills, paying our front desk, paying the electricity, paying the rent. We buy all the All the back bar. We pay for all the products.
We pay for Like, our we don't charge our employees, like, a tap charge.
Like most businesses Like most businesses do. We don't do that. Like, if you're doing a razor shave, we don't charge our employee to use a razor that we purchased. Or the products. Like, or the products.
So if they need a product, they go and take it off the shelf, and the business pays for it only because we were charged an astronomical tap charge at our old shop. Even if we were only doing a haircut, they didn't want a shampoo, we were still being charged an astronomical tap charge. Yep. So at the end of the day, like, we don't charge our employees to be there. Does that make sense?
If you don't that we you guys got, what, ten, twelve employees now?
14. 14.
14. Wow. It's expanded multiple times. There's been talk, and maybe we can give this is to expanding even more. But, I mean, it's not it's not just, like, three of them, Tim.
There's it's every time I go in there, I feel like there's there's some sort of construction going on. That's a lot. But, like, it it it it they've really opened it up, and it's really quite interesting. They did all the build out themselves with or with some some friends and family. So they're very resourceful from that perspective.
Yeah. Also It kind
of it sounds like from the perspective of the Tapcharge and Tim's comment about innovation. Like, you guys are kind of innovating what the old way has done while being people who actually, like, lived through and suffered through
Yeah.
That kind of pain. And so I always think that that's kind of interesting how people are willing to really shake things up where in the past, it's like, no. This person should pay for this because they're using it when you guys are like, no. We're a business. We gotta treat our people right.
Yeah. Right. That's how we feel because, like you said, it was done to us. We didn't open up a barbershop to be like, we're gonna be rich and millionaires. We wanted to open up a barbershop where we wanted to go to work.
We wanted to have a place where, like, you can wear what you want and be who you are and not have to worry about somebody criticizing you walking around the corner and being, like, looking you up and down. Like, why are you wearing that shirt?
Why don't you have enough makeup on?
(01:46):
Yeah. Like, you have to do your hair. What you you just have to like, we were always constantly criticized and told what we could wear, what we couldn't wear. And we were also told, like, you have to only talk about professional stuff. You can't talk about personal stuff.
Like, we knew these men and their children and their wives, and we were being told, like, that's too personal. They're gonna hit on you. And I was like, that's not how it is.
We were also told that they weren't allowed to bring their children into the shop for them to get haircuts because that that wasn't the kind of establishment that was. Yeah. But we wanted to have establishment where your it's your family is allowed to come in there with you. We want your family to come in Yeah. And get these haircuts because we want that type of relationship built with our our our clients because they're essentially family to us.
We want to watch your family grow with you and with us. Like Yeah. That's what we wanted, but that wasn't what we worked for. So that's essentially why we have our own as well. Yeah.
Wow. So how many chairs are, in your establishment?
We started with four.
Mhmm. And two pedicure chairs. Now we have Seven? Seven. Seven and one pedicure chair.
And massage therapist. Yeah. Who's phenomenal, Zach. You know that.
But we definitely have people that rotate in and out of the chairs when some of us aren't using them as well. Yeah. So we have more people than
we do chairs. Mhmm. Yeah. 10 barbers, seven stations.
Mhmm. So
I remember no. You go, Tim.
How was all the how is that managed in terms of do you is that do you have a software platform that manages, like, who's got chairs on what day at what time, or is that just
Yeah.
You all do that?
Mhmm. Yep. Yep. And everybody has access to that. Mhmm.
Yeah. Like, every barber has a set schedule so they know when they're coming in, what days, what times.
What is that? Mevo?
Yes. That's what we use.
Yep.
Yeah. They do all, like, the text like, hey. You gotta confirm your thing type of thing. Yeah. So it's it's nice from that perspective.
(02:07):
It was was COVID the hardest thing for you guys?
Oh, yeah. That was Mhmm. Man, that was serious. Yeah. It was.
Yeah. I mean, what Yeah. Completely shut down. One of those businesses completely shut down
Yep.
For a long time.
Till the last day that we were allowed to be open.
Mhmm.
Well well, walk us through those days because, you know, we haven't I don't know that we've talked to a lot of people who really went got, like, completely shut down shut down, Tim, because I think a lot of the companies we typically talk to are more software related. Mhmm. But, you know, maybe a restaurant, but, like, y'all I mean, you just got the call basically saying, hey. Like, you gotta turn off the door. You know?
Yeah. Turn off the lights. Does how do you guys walk through that? Because I think what you guys did was admirable, and you you kept a lot of people on, if not everyone on. And Yeah.
How was that?
Right. It was It was rough.
We did a lot of FaceTiming. Yeah. Between the three of us, definitely. Yeah. We definitely busted out and did our PPP loan as as fast and as diligently as we could trying to figure out what a lot of that meant.
It was a lot of Yeah. Newnesses with it. Luckily, we did get our saving grace was that we did get approved for our landlord did work with us for it saying that we didn't have to make a rent payment. Just make whatever you could as long as by the end of the year, we made we were fully caught up with our rent. So that was a saving grace for us because they understood we were fully shut down.
We had nothing to give.
People could still buy products. Yeah. And we would, like, meet some one of us three would meet them there.
To yeah. Because they could purchase it online, and we would just meet them there to give them their hair
products. We also had a lot of people who bought gift certificates and then not used it. Just, like, kinda like a donation to the barbershop so that way we could stay in business, which I thought was amazing because, I mean They weren't making very much either at
the time, so it was nice to be able to have that. Yeah. But when the PPP loan did come in, we were able to pay everything in full. We did go through and pay all of our employees for the time that they did miss at work. So because some of them, before they came to us, they were not eligible for, what was it?
Work not workman's comp. Unemployment. Unemployment. Yeah. Because of wherever they had worked before with previous barbershops, they weren't eligible for it.
Yeah. So they were struggling even harder. Yeah. Which is sad.
And we did allow them like, clearly, they have access to their books, but, like, a lot of people would Facebook message them and be like, can you come to my house and do a haircut? And they would ask us, and we were like, that's on you. Like, you a 100% can go and hang out with your client to cut some hair. But yeah.
(02:28):
Maybe you guys should on the top charge for this.
Yeah. I
mean, I feel like right after COVID was when we really, really, really, like, picked up. Like, you it was, like, two, three weeks before you could get an appointment on our books. Yes. People were so excited that we were finally back open. It was like I was like, I missed my friends.
Like, I remember when we first came back, they're like, can I hug you?
And I'm like, yes. Like, I didn't know the rules. I was like, I just need a hug. But yeah.
It's one of days.
Woody, do you have any standards that are put in place or not standards is not the right word. But, like, how do you develop that type of relationship with your clients? And and how do you hire people to ensure that they meet those same standards as you're growing your business?
That's tricky.
Yeah. We've definitely had some some people that have come through that did not stay or stick with us, and it it wasn't necessarily that they didn't meet our standards or requirements. I like to say it was that they just didn't meet the longevity that they could have with us.
Yeah.
You know, you meet some people that are meant to be with you through, like, long times, then you meet some people that are just with you, you know, like, a good short time. Yeah. And we've gotten lucky that we have met a good group of people that have met with us for a long time.
Yeah. So I do, like, 98% of the hiring. Yes. And I feel like I have a good gut instinct. And I don't know.
I just kinda feel like you can read people. I feel like I can read some people, and there are some people who I'm like
Yeah. I feel like it's like it's always, like, give six months. Yeah. You know, until either one, they get comfortable or, like, the, like, the real
The crazy starts to show.
Yeah. How
do you get that crazy out of someone, though, in a in in a short period of time so you can really see their true colors?
Because They they just
They just happen themselves. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. We we had to fire a girl, and she was like, am I being punked?
And we were like, no. No. You're not being punked.
Am being punked?
(02:49):
And she kept coming in
the office like, am I being punked? And we were like, no. This is a real thing. Mhmm. And she was like, are you sure?
Yes. We're sure. But I feel like and you kinda just lead by example. Like, if you want your barber to clean up after themselves, us as owners have to clean up after ourselves. Yep.
We're not like, when we first started out, like, we were cleaning the toilets. We were mopping the floors. We were doing the laundry. We were picking up. So we're not gonna hire somebody to be like, you're going to do this.
Like, I'm not gonna tell you to do something that we haven't already done or that we also wouldn't do ourselves. Or still aren't. Yeah. When our front desk takes a break, we answer the phones. We still book appointments.
We still cash people out. You know? So I think a good thing is, like, you lead by example, and they know what they can and can't get away with because, like, I will let you know. Like, that's not appropriate
or don't be doing that.
So I always tell the people, I'm like, if I have to come to talk to you, then you know. And they're like, okay. It's fair. Mhmm. Yep.
Zach, when you roll in there, do you Heather knows exactly what what needs to happen? You just sit down
and From a haircut? Like a like a haircut perspective? No. Because I'm a pain in the ass, and I probably change my mind every once in a while. So Yes.
Actually, I learned this I learned this maybe a year ago from from Kelly, and it was showing pictures is okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I always thought I was like, what? You guys want me to look through this silly little book and point at something and be like, you know, that's it.
No. That actually gives a good gauge because, you know, it's hard to communicate. This is what I'm thinking. This is what the expert is is is hearing. And so showing that picture Yeah.
You know, I think I I it was a picture of a soccer player. You know, it had a little bit of a something going on. I was like, let's do that. So what about you, Tim?
Mhmm. Kids do that all the time. Mhmm.
Yeah. I I mean, it's it was yeah. The first couple times, then I just go in. It's just, like, same same as as we always do. So
Yeah.
What do you all these hair all these hair products that are, like, fixing the loss of hair. It seems like that's really become not like Rogaine wasn't big in the past and things like that, but it seems like that stuff is actually working in in some regards. At least that's what the marketing is saying. No. It's not
working. Rogaine?
Any any like, is there you know, people come in there like, oh, I'm balding. You know? Like, every time I go in there, I I I freak out about that. But, like, is there what? I don't wanna bald.
Like, that's, like seems like the worst. Like, one of the worst.
Got. Don't use Rogaine. That causes impotence in men. It says it right on the box. It's just not very big.
(03:10):
It's one of those, like, warnings. Yeah.
It's like there are other things that you can use that are much better projects. That's not it.
Yeah. Don't use Rogaine. And then as soon as you stop using Rogaine, you like, everything that you've
grown falls out. Mhmm.
Yeah. Oh, wow. Nutrafol is good. Xenogen is good. Good.
Yeah. We usually tell people about Nutrafol. What
are some of the crazy are these, like, the questions that people ask about, though?
Mhmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
We have clients who are like, hey. Am I balding back here? Or my wife says I'm balding, or is my hairline receding? Or like, they ask us questions, and I'm like, I will be honest if you want me to be honest.
Just please not be upset with me. Yeah. Let me answer you.
Yeah.
There are some who are super paranoid about it, and I'm like, you got nothing to worry about. But then there are some where I'm like, oh.
But my favorite is the ones where I'm like, you're not actually balding. You're just brushing your hair the wrong direction, so it makes it look that way.
Like, it parts back here. And yeah.
Is that a real answer, or you're just messing around?
No. No. No. Seriously. Yeah.
They've just been brushing their hair the wrong direction for their calyx, so it makes them look bald. They've been doing it for years and had no idea. It's fantastic.
Wow.
But you can't see back there, so
you don't know
(03:31):
until somebody tells you. Yeah. Right.
Well, I take my my cellular device out. I'm like,
Well, I also like to talk in. I'm like, good thing you're over six foot tall because nobody can see that spot. Sure. Going for you as well.
I knew this show was gonna be ridiculous. This
I'm like, let's just we'll, you know, we'll do a low taper fade, and we'll let this grow, and we'll just kinda slick it back. And It's kinda We'll cover it. It up a little bit.
We'll cover
it. And they're always like, okay. So yeah. But I've said you're not going bald if he really is going bald. That's fair.
Like, I'm not gonna lie.
How do you guys make the decisions on, like, your expansion? Because when you guys open four chairs a little bit more than that, then you guys decide to build the office and then a couple other chairs. What, like, what what metrics are you looking at? Are you looking at other shops in the area? Like, how how do you look at any of those and make sure that you're you're not gonna make a bad decision from that perspective?
Because I think growth is it can be challenging. I I I always try to use the example of this place in Downtown Norfolk. It was called Empire. It was a restaurant. It's on the corner.
There was 30 seats. Then they get an offer to go two doors down, three doors down to a 120 seat unit, and it basically closed in three months. And so it's crazy how growth can go the wrong way, and sometimes it goes the right way. And so how do you guys kind of look at your metrics to make educated decisions?
We always know, like, bigger is not always better. Yeah. We worked for a place that expanded, and it went to heck after that.
But
when we're completely full, like, when we were open Tuesday through Saturday and all four of us were completely booked, we're like, okay. We need to add another chair. And so then we added another chair. And then we were only doing one pedicure at a time. We used to have two pedicure chairs, and we were like, we're not making money on two.
So the smartest thing to do is just get rid of one pedicure chair and put another barber seat there. And then we just kept growing and growing as of, like, everybody's book is full. We're like, what else can we do? We know we don't wanna, like, knock down a wall and get a whole another place. So it was either, like, open more days and add another barber or two or open up another location, which is really, really risky.
And we're like, we're not even we're just gonna open up the six days. So we kinda just sit around and talk about it, and we're like, look at the numbers and Shoot ideas. Just kinda fucking wing it. Wait. Oops.
Sorry. Kinda wing it. Sorry. Whoops.
Whoopsies. There's the Boston.
But, yeah, no. We just talk about it.
Allegedly, p g 13, now you can have one, I think, two f bombs. I don't Sorry. I was not
okay. Well, did he say that it was supposed to be p g 13?
(03:52):
I don't know. It wasn't warned, Zach.
It wasn't warned. We got no warning.
You know, barbershop talk.
Sometimes I think that you all should you you should have your own podcast. It's always talk about the crazy.
I say Oh, yeah. I always say we need a TV show, and Ashley's like Ashley's like, nope. Nope. I'm like, okay. We can
do it get canceled. No. Think so.
No. We wouldn't.
There's a lot of, like, obscure content out there that you would never think is popular that gets millions of subscribers. It's crazy. Yeah. Right? So, like, there's a there's a hair company.
I believe it's called Beardbrand where they just trim beards, I guess, on camera, and they put, like, a GoPro or something on the guys. It's either here or here. They look down. They they record that. I'm like, it's interesting.
Like, how
It's hard for the guy to respond if he's getting his beard done because then you're gonna, like, mess up
It's quick, like, makes somebody be quiet. You say? Yeah. Yeah.
Especially if you're, like, going around the mustache area. Mhmm. You can't they can't talk. No. I mean, I we say it all the time.
So many clients, like, you guys need your own TV show. And she's always like, no. No.
You you can just sit back and be the executive producer. You don't have to be on.
I'm like, he'll just fuzz you out. You could just be fuzzy. But so we're still working on her, Zach. We're still working on her. It's been almost eight years, and she just keeps shooting it down.
So I'm like, man. I
don't I
don't blame you.
Hell no. Why? Do
you all one thing that I've always wished that there was, and maybe you all offer this. I don't know, but a subscription service. They x amount of dollar. And then if you need to go in for a quick trim up or whatever, you know, all that stuff's already prepaid in advance and, you know, like, I just wish that that was there.
(04:13):
Technically. We don't have a
subscription service, but Black Friday through Christmas Eve, we have a gift card set special where you buy a 100 and you get $25 Free. Free or, like, add it to your account. So a lot of people buy bulk of that. That way, they never have to see the front desk. Like, they there's and then there's a pop up note for how much they're gonna leave for a tip.
Oh, it's gonna be loud. I'm gonna get And their service. So they have enough for the whole year. Mhmm.
So it covers them down for when they know they're coming in for x amount of collar trims, x amount of haircuts, if you're doing x amount of, like, massages. Like, they incorporate all that, and they know it because they're so regular with everything that they pay for everything upfront with their gift card, and they just know.
Yeah. You're saying, though, like, Tim, like, $60 a month, $100 a month. If you Right. If you realize you're having a bad hair day, you want you want one of
the latest ills the too little. Recognize that revenue up in in advance for you all as the business owners. And then
Well, the problem with that is it's hard to get in Yeah. On our so, like, if somebody
But but so, like but that would be one of the perks, though, is that they would have priority booking, if you will, and you you could have that on a reoccurring schedule. But if they needed to come in just to get a little trimmy trim, you know, they got a TV shoot or something, Whatever they gotta do. But I it would just be a way to I don't know. I just I wish that that was something that was offered.
Yeah. We just don't have, like, wiggle room on our books in order to
do that. But we do offer reoccurring, like, scheduling, and
you can have it go out for as many years as you want. Yeah. Like, you can come every other day Mhmm. And have it set up that way for the next three years if you want. It's called, like, a standing appointment, but it's not you don't pay extra for it.
I've got clients that come every week. Yeah. Same. And the same exact appointment time every single week. Yeah.
That seems a little absurd. Like, what is the I I know the answer is that.
Growth rate?
So I have clients that come every week, and one week, it's for their beard trim. Mhmm. And they get cleaned up, and they get their shave with it. And then the next week, it's haircut and beard trim. It's it's actually an entire family of them, and it's every single week.
But that's their pampering. That's, like, their thing that they do for themselves every week. Yeah. To them, that's normal. Like I have a few clients.
It's their form of self care, which and nowadays, everybody needs some type of self care if you think about it, whether that's you talking to a therapist, you're getting a massage, you're getting your feet done, you're going out for coffee. What's the difference between getting a $7 coffee every single day or going to get a haircut once a week? That makes you feel fantastic. And you have someone to talk to every week. Mhmm.
It's about the same thing if you think about it.
Mhmm. I mean
$77 for a coffee seems a little absurd in itself. What like, what is that?
Just much milk?
(04:34):
Of that. But I'm saying everybody has their vices. If that's his one vice every single week
Yeah.
Who am I to judge next to the girl that pays $7 for a cup of coffee every single day? Yeah. Or someone that goes and does pays $300 a month to go do CrustFit every week. Everybody's got their vices. That's just their vice.
Mhmm.
And it's free therapy. Yeah.
It is free therapy. Like,
it's free therapy.
How do you all, as three partners, make sure that you guys are communicating, not fighting, like, keeping things, you know, in the growth mode? Because I I think you could make the argument that things in, you know, salons and barber shops can be a little filled with drama. But three of you guys, eight years into this, still, if not best friends, pretty darn close to best friends, you know, real close. And I'm like, how do you not get sick of each other? How do you make sure that, like, you can make cordial business decisions and things like that?
Because I think that's, like, a real thing. Like, you like Yeah. If you're really good friends with someone, like, it's probably not a good idea to start a business with them. But, yeah, you guys have shown that, hey. Like, it can work.
Because everybody does their own thing. Like, every we know, like, this is what Ashley does.
This is what I do.
This is what Heather does. And so we try not to step on each other's toes. It was a little rough in the beginning. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, you if you It's a growing experience.
You all want the same goal, and we just have to remind, like, this is why we started it because we did love each other, and we were friends, and we still hang out all the time. We go on vacations together.
And Pre sessions help too. Yeah. I mean, it's like it's almost like a marriage. Like, people are married to sixty, seventy years. And sometimes we forget even though, like, we're our own individual people even though we work together almost every single day.
We talk to each other almost every single day that sometimes we do have to remind ourselves like, hey. Like, I'm still here. Like, guess what's happening this week? Or, Hey. This happened or, hey.
You weren't here today, but so and so and so. Because sometimes we get so used to the other person being there that even if they're not there, I'm like sometimes I'm like, oh,
I didn't tell you. And she's like, no. And I'm like,
I always say, everything always happens when I'm not here, because I'm never I don't work on Tuesdays. So I'm like, hey. I'll come to work, I'm like, hey. What happened yesterday? And I'm so to me, it's like a funny happens on Tuesdays.
Yeah. Everything happens on Tuesdays. Mhmm. And we're like, did you tell Ashley?
Wait. I get a haircut on Tuesdays.
See? It all happens on Tuesdays. That's why
(04:55):
I never see you. Yeah.
I just think to Tim, like, when you talk about founders, like, the like, it like, I I admire that you guys are actually still close because I think that can be such a difficult thing. And it's Mhmm. It's it's just very unique. And and and I and I appreciate what you guys just said there because you see so many, like, just butting of heads of people, and it's like, man, like, communicate.
But I also feel like we're not, like, girly girlies. Yeah. Like, we don't want the drama, and that's why we do own a barbershop to work on men because, like, don't bring it. Like, if there's somebody that brings drama and we're just like, no. We're no.
We worked that. We're not doing that no more. And, like, when we sat down to do this, everybody had their specific job, and you just stick with that. It just works. I don't know.
Everyone always asks, because do you guys still like each other? We're like, yeah. We hang out all the time. Mhmm. Like, all the time.
If my kids can't get ahold of me to ask me a question, they call Heather. That's fair. So and then she's like, did your daughter call you? I'm like, no. But, yeah, it just works.
I think Heather was my son's emergency contact for school.
At school. Yeah. Yeah. Our kids were the same age. They grew up.
They helped us, you know, paint the barbershop, and they were going roller skating together. They were going bowling together. So it just I don't know. We got really lucky, and I feel like it's a risk a respect thing too. Like, everybody just respects each other.
What is happening to you? He's telling him we
can't hear. What's what's the future for, for you all? It's multiple locations continuing to build out. What's what's the plan?
Just take it one day at a time. We we we love our barbershop now. Like, we're super, super happy where we're at. Everything just flows. There are days where we don't even have to be there, and we can count on our front desk to take control.
We have really good barbers Yep. That do what they're supposed to do when we're not there. Nobody takes advantage of us. Like It's just nice. It's just nice.
And it's scary to go and add something else because that's not how a lot of people are. Can't you know?
Sometimes multiple locations is not always it. Yeah.
And then we'd be separated. Somebody would have to go there. And That's not nice. And we don't we we don't want that. Maybe one day, like, somebody that works for us or with us can open up a location.
And
Yeah.
But as of right now, we like what we're doing, and we enjoy going to work every day. And it's not very stressful. I feel like if we opened up another location, it would be a little bit stressful, but it's hard to find the people. Like, there's people that have applied lately that aren't even licensed when we try to find them Yeah. To make sure they are licensed.
How long is the licensing process?
Depends on the person. Mhmm. It's fifteen hundred hours, so it depends on how long it take the person to to go through those hours to get it.
(05:16):
School. If you're an apprentice, it's, what, twenty five hundred hours, like working hours? Oh, I think
Yeah.
It's longer. Yeah. So it's a little longer, but you're actually, like, working in a shop under somebody's license. And you have to, like, do the bookwork yourself, and we have to log the hours for The Apprentice. So if you go to school like, it took me nine months to get a license because I went to cosmetology school full time up in Massachusetts.
Is that is that length as long as it is because of what you guys are using, a deadly weapon type of thing? Like, what what why does it have to be so long? I mean, it just obviously, I can't cut my own hair. I can't I can't cut my
own hair. I can't
do anything. I don't know what that is.
Yeah. I I don't know why. Because every state's different. Like, California has different like, the amount of time you have to go and Virginia has
I think a lot of it just has to do with making sure, like obviously, you're learning a vast of different things that you have to know, but a lot of it really kinda boils down to make sure you can understand the sanitation process to make sure you're not passing on blood borne diseases and staph infections and different things to people that they don't need to get that can kill them, yeah, essentially.
Well well, thank you for the department of cleanliness for that.
We're very clean. Like, very clean. I will drop a comb, and you literally it's you cannot pick it up and keep working on it. Mhmm. And I have so many clients that, like, I'll drop the comb, and they're like, you can get it.
I'm like, no. No. I can't. Like, I don't mind. I'm like, no.
You under like Yeah. Legally, we cannot pick it up and start working on your hair. So yeah.
So usually, you're, like, a little quicker. Like, you're just
No. I'm I'm this is this is a fascinating conversation for me. And
Yeah.
Okay. So you guys won the CovaBiz best of business a handful of times. Right?
Yeah.
How do you how do you guys go about doing that, winning, stuff like that? Because
We didn't even know we were nominated the first Oh. Few times we got nominated. We had no idea. Then all of sudden, were like they came to us, they're like, you guys won. And we were like, oh, did we?
And we don't nominate ourselves. We don't ask people to vote for us. I don't know. It just happens. That's cool.
I guess we're just that good. Sorry.
(05:37):
What is this tune that keeps popping out, like, four times? Like, what is that? Like, someone
Sorry. It's just notifications that keeps coming through. I can't stop it.
Anything good? That
that's the sound of money hitting the hitting the account.
Like, what does it say? Because it pops up on the screen now.
If I knew how to stop it, I would.
I'm sorry.
No worries. Does every barber have a tattoo? Like, what percentage of barbers have tattoos?
Actually, I think they all do.
Lori wait. I don't think Lori does. Lori is she's our oldest barber. I love her. Every time I call her miss Lori, she drops the f bomb at me because I at all?
I don't
think so. I'm pretty sure. But she could have a high I don't think miss Lori has a tattoo.
We're gonna find out, though.
I think A very high, like, a very high amount, like, 95% plus. Tim, does the person who cuts your hair, do they have a tattoo?
No. I well, not that I'm aware of. Nothing visible anyway.
Yeah. Could be hidden.
I don't know. I had somebody ask me the other day. They're like, oh, is that new? I'm like, no.
Yeah. I always I'm always cold, so rarely do I ever have short sleeves on in the shop. And if I don't have a long sleeve on, somebody's like, woah. You have tattoos. I'm like, uh-uh.
Because I'm always I'm always cold.
How do y'all get the word out about what you guys do?
Yeah. I wanna find out about marketing as well. Word-of-mouth.
(05:58):
And then recently, like, Chesapeake Moms Group.
Is that a Facebook group or something?
Yes. I
was like, where do you guys get volleys for your kids? And everybody says, Anchorage barbershop. It's mostly
Like, someone will post where to get a haircut, and then they post Anchorage, and then that just pops up through.
Yeah.
So there's been no, like, specific effort towards coordinated effort towards that. I mean, that's great to basically be at a full book of business.
Yeah. Well, we also took a lot of clients am I allowed to say that?
A lot of clients followed Yeah. Us
when we left. So I had already had a pretty well established book, and Heather already had a pretty established book. So Ashley had only been working with us for about two and a half years at the other place. So she was lucky enough she got to take, like, a lot the walk ins and, like, the newer clients. So it's just word-of-mouth.
And we had a huge barbershop barbershop flag outside. That was pretty much the only thing. Laurie has no tattoos. Laurie has no tattoos.
Laurie has no tattoos, we asked.
She's been a barber for I don't actually know. Forty years. Yeah. Yeah. She's great.
And we don't do anything
we don't post a lot on social media either. We don't have time. We did at one point in
time do that car show when we first opened. Yeah. I think We
had a car show at the convention center.
Yeah. We did that when we first opened. That was it. I think that was really about it. Yeah.
Okay. So no no recurring marketing.
Occasionally, Alan will give us a shout out on +1 061, but that's about it. Yeah. Okay.
So some guy named Alan. Yeah. Literally.
(06:19):
Yeah. Yeah.
And okay. So but but I think the key to that is, okay. You get the business, but then keeping the business is then the difficult part. What do you guys do to retain these clients twelve, fourteen, 52 times a year? Like, what's the go to strategy there?
We give a good haircut. We're not super expensive. You just have a relationship with the people, good customer service. We have free beer. Oh,
yeah. Yeah.
And, you know, I also was, like, father sons too.
Mhmm.
I have a lot of clients who I've been cutting hair since they were, like, three or four, and now they're 16, 17, still driving. So, yeah, we just feel like it's just the relationship you grow with the person in your chair.
You keep coming back. Yeah. Why?
Well, my next question is how do I fire a barber?
Oh my god.
You can't.
I'm
stuck now, Zach. We know too much about you. I guess that's, like,
a good question for you. Like, why did you follow Heather when there were other options around where you lived? Because
Yeah. How did you find out about Heather's
Megan had bought me a birthday present that was like it wasn't just a haircut. It was a bunch of crap. It was, I think, it was, like, a it was a massage. It might have been, like, a manic manicure, pedicure.
Little mani pedi.
The steam the steam thing. Mhmm. Probably, like, the the beard thing
Mhmm.
Back when I didn't have a beard. Mhmm. And I was like, that's cool. And then I think I, like, didn't go back to Heather the next time. I think Kelly has cut my hair maybe once, maybe.
I don't know.
(06:40):
Just once.
And then I went back. Well, you know, the hair cuttery sucks.
Yeah.
Well, I
think it's the point.
Places like that, like, as soon as you hit the fifteen hundred hours, like, that's where it like like, that's where you start.
Yeah. Yeah. You have to. It's like a. I did.
I don't I don't think I'm an upscale person in the slightest, but I don't know. I felt like a little bit better there. Maybe it was the beer that got me. I don't know. But and then I well, when you guys opened up your own thing, I remembered I don't know if you guys knew this, but Heather would say, oh, we're doing this.
And I was like, are you guys sure? You guys sure you wanna do this? Like, it's it's hard.
Yeah.
And no. I think at that point, was like, okay. Like, she had been cutting my hair during the TV show days. And I was like, well, I guess I gotta stick with this chick.
There it is. Oh, it kind of yeah. Yeah. Half a shot roll.
I mean, men are loyal to their barbers. Like, we've noticed, like, men are really loyal. If they have an emergency, we're like, hey. I can't fit you in, but Ashley can. And they're like, I love Ashley.
But it's just something it's just like trust that you build. Lot of men like to come in and sit down and tell us what's been going on with their life the past month. Mhmm. And they don't have to think about their haircut. They don't have to think about what they're doing.
They don't have to tell me. They know that as soon as they are done, they look good and they feel good, and I feel like that's a pretty big deal for most men. Like, men are loyal Yeah. To their barbers. Like, really loyal.
To their barbers.
Yeah. It's true. So that family I told you about, if I'm not there, they won't come in for a haircut. I know. Like, at all.
Yeah. I get that. Like, there's, every once in a while where we the place that I go to, they'll be like, if there's someone else that I don't know, it's like, uh-uh. I'm gonna Yeah. My reservation was was with you.
And Mhmm.
Yeah. We all talk amongst each other. Like, because we're so close and we've been doing this for so long, our clients end up coming in at the same time as the next client, like, in the chair. So Yeah. They end up getting to know each other, and we get to know the client.
Like, I know Zach pretty well because he sits with Heather, and I sit right on the side of Heather. And so it just it's such a familiarity. Is that the right word that I say prop probably?
(07:01):
Yeah.
Okay.
Close enough.
Yeah. And he shows his caps off all the time. And I I'm I'm working on it, Zach. I'm
working. That.
Yeah. He's like, see that, Kelly? He's like, rub it in.
Oh, boy.
Well, I mean, what do you expect me to do? You know, if you have an asset, show it.
That's fair, Zach. That's fair.
Yeah. It's it's it's
I mean, I would show them off too if I had them.
It's Jeans. It's I didn't do anything. Maybe it was soccer and lacrosse growing up. I don't know, but I feel like it's Jeans. G e n e, not j e a n, for those of you wondering.
I know. Because when I met your wife that time, all I talked about was your calves, and she was like, it's genetics. Don't let them fool you.
I can't imagine Megan saying that ever.
Yeah. How
did you guys pick the location that you guys are in?
We knew where we wanted to be because there was no other barbershops around. And we hooked in Virginia Beach first. Yeah. It was kinda centrally located. Like, me and Heather were in Suffolk, and Ashley was in Chesapeake.
Was in Virginia Beach. Oh, yeah. You were always Yeah. You were in Virginia Beach. And so when we were looking, we knew what we wanted.
We Heather had sat down on her iPad and was like, okay. We want this much square footage. We wanna put this here. We wanna put this here. We wanna do this.
And so when we we already had, like
Heather was a whiz with all the layouts and, like, all the designing on how everything should look. Like, that was all her forte.
(07:22):
Like, and there was And we had to be so many miles away from the barbershop that we had already worked at.
Mhmm.
It was, like,
in a contract. So we were like, okay. Well, Chesapeake is centrally located. And like I said, when we picked out that spot eight and a half years ago or eight years ago, there was no other barbershops there. Mm-mm.
We did look at Independence, a town center.
Yes. On a Saturday, it took twenty five minutes to get off the exit. So that wasn't terrible. Traffic was a nightmare.
The only time, like, traffic's really a nightmare is around Christmas time, but that mall's kinda fizzled out. So
No. There's still traffic there then.
Well, yeah.
It's in Greenbrier, Tim. Mhmm. And, yeah. I mean, there's a lot right there. And then, obviously, the dollar thing went up, that whole
Yeah. Have ever thought
It's it's pretty slow.
Have you ever thought about having a haircut roulette wheel where you spin the wheel and wherever it lands, that's the haircut that that person will get? Like, it could be a mullet.
Some It
could be a
board.
A flat top. I think that would be really fun. Alright.
Only if you're the first one to do it.
It could be it could you could a lot of people do that with beards too. They're like, oh, how can I you know, I'm I'm gonna shave my beard? We know ultimately I'm gonna get to that, but how can we make it look as ridiculous as possible and, like Yeah. Okay. We shave here, get the chops, then we're gonna do the Hulk Hogan.
You know? Was that a Fu Manchu? Like, how about just the, you know, the the creeper stash? Stash.
Yeah. No. That's I I have a specific name for people that have those type of mustaches.
(07:43):
I don't think she can
say that on here. Say on here.
What so, like but when people come into the chair and they they ask for a certain cut and you're, like, thinking to yourself, this isn't this isn't the cut that you need.
We let them know. We let them know. We let them know. Because I would want somebody to let me know.
Yeah. And they take it pretty well? And and do they go with your, they they go with your recommendation?
Sometimes they don't, and then they come back a few weeks later, and they're like, I should've listened. I should've listened. Yeah.
Is that because, like, their hairstyle? Like, they in the same way that you're saying someone's, like, is the wrong like like, what haircut would not work for for me?
A fryer tub. Flat top.
Oh, my dad has a flat top. He
likes it. The beaver with the
swoopy veins. You definitely wouldn't work with that llama style haircut.
Prior to good lord.
The broccoli cut?
The who?
The broccoli. Or the llama. You know, these kids look they have that poofy bang in the front, and it's, like, tapered low, and
they have to walk around like this and look down Yeah. So they can see.
Oh, wow. That's
really It is You
can't unsee it. Yeah.
Is the mullet the, is that is the new fad, that's that's happening right now?
Yeah. It's like a modern mullet, so it's not like
(08:04):
the Is is that all thanks to Morgan Wallen? Is he, the the call group?
And some baseball players. Like, all the kids I have that play travel ball have mullets.
Is that from the bananas? The Savannah bananas? No. Because I
feel like it was on I feel like it started with Morgan Wallen. Yeah. Because now nowadays, they're perming their mullets too. Yeah. We don't
We're bringing back the perm.
Wait. Guys, perm their mullets.
Yes. Yes.
Wow.
Some of them. We don't perm mullets. Not anymore. Well
No one
should perm mullets. No one
You'd be surprised,
especially when the parents are letting the kids get their hair permed at a young age. Yeah.
Oh, is that a bad thing?
It just grows out on a boy so quickly.
Yeah. That's a lot of money to spend on a child whose hair grows so fast. Yeah.
Is it true that your hair is actually dead when it's, like, out, or is it how does that work? I had heard that at some point in life.
I mean, it's keratin. It's the same thing as your fingernails are made out of. Mhmm. So, I mean, it's not, like, living, but it's not necessarily dead. It's not necessarily dead, but
you can damage it just like you can your nail bed. So it's like, you know, it's like a weird in between thing. Mhmm.
Yeah. Your hair will break at the ends, and you'll need a haircut. Like, I need one, but nobody can
see that.
(08:25):
Nobody can see that. But, yeah, it's not dead. I wouldn't call it dead.
What's something we haven't talked about that you wanna talk about? I'm not sure if I've asked this. I'm scared.
You're scared? Is that what you said?
I'm scared of your potential answer. Yes.
With PG. I was just born. It's PG.
'13.
Yeah. I mean, I feel like everybody's always really, really shocked that we are still friends. Yeah. But, like, how are you still friends? Or, like, when we've been open for so long, we were told that the first we weren't gonna survive the first year.
Yeah. Or do.
We were criticized on, like, the color of the walls and The light bulbs. And, like, dumb things like that. And we were like, watch us. I feel like that was such a motivator at first, and now it's just everything's like a greased wheel. It just keeps going.
But, like, we had a lot of people, like, be like, you're not gonna make it. Okay. Here we are. Still make
I love I love the haters. I love the motivation from that.
I mean, it really gives you so much motivation to to be like, okay. Watch.
I'm not allowed to use the word phrasing on here because it's PG.
Yeah. Saw PG 13, but you know?
I have a I have a phrase I like to use when people like to, you know, be that way. It's on a
cup here. Hold on a second. Oh, she'll
Oh, lord. This
It's fine.
You know
what? Here we go.
Oh, there you go.
(08:46):
Yeah. See, there you go. I didn't say it.
I just showed it
to you, so it's fine.
Mhmm. There's
your there's your thumbnail. Mhmm.
Yeah.
What's the three of you, you finish you finish the day. You wanna go out for a a drink or a a meal. Where is the go to place, and what is that beverage or meal that everybody should try?
Oh, no. I feel like we we're all so different because she's, like, vegan kind of.
So She just can't eat dairy. Yeah. I can't have dairy.
So it's usually around, like, what she she usually knows the good spots because, like, she knows what she can eat. So we will get something around her diet. We Yeah. We go for coffee a lot.
Yeah. We do. A lot of coffee. Lots of coffee. A lot of smoothie bowls lately too because it's so warm outside.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, we're going to eat when we leave here. We haven't decided where we're gonna go. Mhmm.
But yeah. But we try to do that all the time. Like, even after work, we'll go to, like, Mexican. Everyone likes guac. Yeah.
She'll get guac. I get burritos.
I feel like you guys did not answer that question at all. You kinda, like, just skirted around.
Like There's no there's no go to place. There's no regular.
No. No. We like to mix up. We go to a lot of different places. We don't really drink the way that we used to drink back in the day anymore.
So that one's kind of like we that we can't really answer that. Yeah.
So if you have a new client that comes in, if they are looking for a recommendation
Oh, I can't answer that because I don't live out in Chesapeake. And I literally tell them that.
Have to tell them a lot. We tell them a lot to go to, like, Summit Point. Like, there's, like, Meatbird over there. There's Cork and Bowl. There's that Uche place over
(09:07):
there. Taco.
Yeah. Union taco is really good.
A good fried chicken sandwich down there is chicken roll.
Chicken roll? Yeah. Haven't been there.
It's on Battlefield to ask Misty about it. She she likes it.
If you haven't been to number one taco yet, that shit's chef's kiss. So good.
There's a Puerto Rican coffee shop at Grassfield that's really good. It's called Kin Kinley's. Kinley's. Yeah.
See, now we're getting somewhere. Okay. Now we're
getting somewhere.
Well, this has been an absolute delight. I am it was wonderful to chat with you guys. Thank you for your time. Final thoughts, Tim?
It was a fun hour as they all are. But, yeah, this is the first this is the first. Yeah. Three people on one screen. We're used to having multiple screens and whatnot, but they no.
I appreciate the the insight. I wish you continued success wherever that takes you all. Enjoy every day as you as you that seems to be the place where you wanna go, so enjoy every day. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for having us.
Hey, everybody. I'm Tim Ryan, executive director of Innovate Hampton Roads, and I'm inviting you to attend the StartUp World Cup on August 21, 05:00 here at Town Center in Virginia Beach.
Greetings, Tim Ryan.
(00:01):
Hello, Zach. How are you?
You know you, I'm great. You would think that, you know, after 269, 270 ish episodes, whatever number this is, somewhere up there, you would think that we would have figured out a better intro than just be like, hello, but here we are. I kinda like the spontaneity. Don't ask me to spell that.
Wait. Well, definitely not. And nothing nothing scripted per se. That is for sure. But we always open up the show with a little snippet of, what is soon to come.
A little candor.
In the
Oh, this is gonna be this is gonna be any anything going on crazy I need to know about?
I think the next hour will be interesting.
Okay. So back in 2017 no. No. Back in 2012, I met at least one of these individuals, maybe before then, at a barbershop. And so since then, these individuals have gone on to open their own shop.
I believe, like, in 2018, 2019, we'll get all the facts right. But they went out on their own, built their own thing, have won many awards, very popular place, cool vibe. And I'm excited about this. I actually have interviewed one of these individuals before. Oh, really?
Fantastic time many years ago when I used to have the TV show, Hampton Roads Business Weekly.
Oh, okay.
You actually might have been there that day. Might have been the same day that we shot at the the Push Comedy Theater.
Very well could be. Wait. I mean, I did I did shoot an episode there. Yeah. But I don't yeah.
Well, I'm going into this going into this blind, so this will be fun.
Us too. So
I I had a conversation with Heather who is the the lady on the right.
I'm Kelly. No last name. I'm Ashley. Heather.
Well, hello.
Well, welcome. Welcome to the Fervent Four show.
Thank you. Excited to be here.
Okay. So to get into barber world, like, do you guys grow up, like like, really enjoying hair and things like that? Like, how how does how does one get into that world or recognize that that's something that that you have a passion for? Because I know Heather, you know, I think she used to do photography, still does photography a little bit, and maybe something around that. But how does how does hair wanting to make people look good become the thing that you guys wanna
(00:22):
I had a friend whose mom was a hairstylist. She wasn't a barber, and she always made it look so fun. And she always had cash in her pocket because they tipped her. And I was like, oh, man. I wanna do hair because I always looked up to her.
So then I was like, I'm just gonna go to school, do hair. Well, then I started doing women's hair because I didn't know barbering was a thing. I mean, I knew there was barbers, but I was like, I really don't wanna work on women. We're just I just it takes a long time. We got really nothing in common.
They are never really truly satisfied with your hair. So then I was like, I moved to Virginia and started working at another barbershop. And I was like, okay. I only wanna work on men's hair. No more women.
So Okay.
There's a lot to go off of there. Okay.
Where where did you I where did where did you move from prior where were you before Virginia?
Massachusetts.
Massachusetts. K.
Yes.
Mhmm.
Big New England fan. Big fan of deflategate. You know?
Wait. So allegedly. That's Allegedly. Cheap. Yeah.
I mean,
I've never spoken to Tom about it, have you?
Nope. No. Just
I'm kind of Bill,
not Tom.
I used to yeah. But that's how I got into it.
My Okay. So is it is it difficult, though, like, knowing that people are never satisfied from that perspective? Like, that sounds like something interesting, like, in being in business to know that that is a difficult task at hand. Like, that's
Sometimes. I mean, I guess you just kinda have to know that, like, if that person is never satisfied no matter what you do, they're not gonna be happy with it. So you have to know it's not you. It's that person. Like, you can do anything to help try to get them to be satisfied, but sometimes they're just not.
Some men are the same way. Some men are. But
(00:43):
That's true. Yeah. Sometimes it's not necessarily that it's anything you do, but sometimes it's they're a better fit with somebody else. Yeah. Yeah.
But that's with anybody. It doesn't matter if they're male or female. They're just a better fit with a different person doing their hair because the personalities click better.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Especially how do you get into this world?
My mother. Oh. Well, you said how did I get to the world? No.
Sorry. Oh,
okay. I kinda know.
See if we did.
It was something I could do no matter where my ex husband got stationed, and I just kind of happened to be good at it. And then I fell into the passion for it. So
This is an area that I think there's always been like, and maybe it is still ripe for disruption, but I'm curious. Like, are you are you all hipster hipster type of barber? Is that I don't know what the right term is, but all the like, hair haircuts got really, really expensive in, like, the hipsters with the the fades and the beards and all that kind of good stuff. Is that is that is that your your target market? Or
I feel like we do more professional. Like, we have a lot of, like, professional guys who come in, and we do a lot of military and a lot of gunfight contracting too. Yeah. And a lot of baseball haircuts. A lot of and we do a lot of kids because of, like, the mullets they like.
And Oh,
is that the end thing right now?
Mhmm. Yeah. Mullets and, like, it's what?
Lord have mercy.
Oh, boy.
I had I had a, like, a faux hawk for a little while.
You did?
Yeah. I need to bring that back.
And you had you kinda have something. Yeah.
Yeah. It's it's yeah.
(01:04):
You should have did your hair today.
You know? Of all days. You have all days to do your hair.
Don't know. You would think, well, I mean, why change it today? You know, just be natural with the, you know, deal done type of thing. I'm sure my barber is not very happy when they see this during this. So
Oh, lord. Yeah. I don't know.
We're are we Heather will replace the eye roll with the sip of beverage. Yeah. Yeah.
Next question, please.
Okay. So you guys how long has it been? Seven years, six years, five years? When did you guys open?
We're coming up on eight years. August 2017. Mhmm.
Wow. Mhmm. That's crazy. Okay. And so I guess being a barber is is kinda like a solo contractor in in itself.
Right? And so you kinda have some business acumen from that perspective. But was that ever something that when you guys were working at a different shop that you thought that, like, hey. Like, maybe I do wanna do this. Is that ever in the cards?
Like, how does that come come to be?
Well, so before I moved here, I was living in Texas, and I was running a shop down there. And then when I moved here and I ended up working with these ladies, we had many of conversations in Heather's backyard by the pool Yeah. About actually running our own shop together. So just because it was we thought it would just be a better fit Yeah. Yeah.
For our well-being and mental health. Yeah.
I I feel like we had outgrown the barbershop that we were at. Me and Heather had worked there eight and a half years. We had a completely full book. We, we had these clients for eight and a half years, and they only would were coming to that shop to see us. And we were like, well, how can we better ourselves?
Like, what's the next step? I never went into barbering being like, I wanna own my own shop. But I feel like for me, Heather's, my safety blanket, and she was like, we need to we need to branch out. And Ashley was always with us, and Ashley was going to school to do, like, business organization. So it just we got the ball rolling.
We were like, we need to advance our career because we kinda felt stuck. So we were like at first, we were like, well, maybe we can rent spots together. And then we were, like, did more research, and we were like, we're probably just gonna open up our own shop. Yeah. And because renting costs more than just opening Yeah.
A spot.
Yeah. I don't
know you
missed him, but some play some places, like, they have you can, like, rent a seat type of thing. That's right.
That's, yeah, that's what I wanted to get into is the unit economics of all of this. Like, do you all just split, like, the fixed cost a third, a third, and a third? Like, this is how much rent is. This is how much power is. You each pay your third, and then you take whatever you bring in.
(01:25):
How do you how do you divide up business and revenue and all that kind of good stuff?
We pay ourselves as a w two employee. So we're employees of our own business.
And you're responsible for your own book of business, or do you share or or is that shared across
the
business, so to speak?
So it runs like any other barbershop, I guess, a technical sense. We're still a w two paid employee. The only difference is we don't make an hourly wage. We only make a commission. So if nobody sits in our chair, we're still not making any money.
So we still only get a percentage of whatever sits in our chair. But whatever percentage is left over, all of that still goes pumped right back into our business. So, like, everybody else that's working for us, all of that extra money, that's what goes to paying our bills, paying our front desk, paying the electricity, paying the rent. We buy all the All the back bar. We pay for all the products.
We pay for Like, our we don't charge our employees, like, a tap charge.
Like most businesses Like most businesses do. We don't do that. Like, if you're doing a razor shave, we don't charge our employee to use a razor that we purchased. Or the products. Like, or the products.
So if they need a product, they go and take it off the shelf, and the business pays for it only because we were charged an astronomical tap charge at our old shop. Even if we were only doing a haircut, they didn't want a shampoo, we were still being charged an astronomical tap charge. Yep. So at the end of the day, like, we don't charge our employees to be there. Does that make sense?
If you don't that we you guys got, what, ten, twelve employees now?
14. 14.
14. Wow. It's expanded multiple times. There's been talk, and maybe we can give this is to expanding even more. But, I mean, it's not it's not just, like, three of them, Tim.
There's it's every time I go in there, I feel like there's there's some sort of construction going on. That's a lot. But, like, it it it it they've really opened it up, and it's really quite interesting. They did all the build out themselves with or with some some friends and family. So they're very resourceful from that perspective.
Yeah. Also It kind
of it sounds like from the perspective of the Tapcharge and Tim's comment about innovation. Like, you guys are kind of innovating what the old way has done while being people who actually, like, lived through and suffered through
Yeah.
That kind of pain. And so I always think that that's kind of interesting how people are willing to really shake things up where in the past, it's like, no. This person should pay for this because they're using it when you guys are like, no. We're a business. We gotta treat our people right.
Yeah. Right. That's how we feel because, like you said, it was done to us. We didn't open up a barbershop to be like, we're gonna be rich and millionaires. We wanted to open up a barbershop where we wanted to go to work.
We wanted to have a place where, like, you can wear what you want and be who you are and not have to worry about somebody criticizing you walking around the corner and being, like, looking you up and down. Like, why are you wearing that shirt?
Why don't you have enough makeup on?
(01:46):
Yeah. Like, you have to do your hair. What you you just have to like, we were always constantly criticized and told what we could wear, what we couldn't wear. And we were also told, like, you have to only talk about professional stuff. You can't talk about personal stuff.
Like, we knew these men and their children and their wives, and we were being told, like, that's too personal. They're gonna hit on you. And I was like, that's not how it is.
We were also told that they weren't allowed to bring their children into the shop for them to get haircuts because that that wasn't the kind of establishment that was. Yeah. But we wanted to have establishment where your it's your family is allowed to come in there with you. We want your family to come in Yeah. And get these haircuts because we want that type of relationship built with our our our clients because they're essentially family to us.
We want to watch your family grow with you and with us. Like Yeah. That's what we wanted, but that wasn't what we worked for. So that's essentially why we have our own as well. Yeah.
Wow. So how many chairs are, in your establishment?
We started with four.
Mhmm. And two pedicure chairs. Now we have Seven? Seven. Seven and one pedicure chair.
And massage therapist. Yeah. Who's phenomenal, Zach. You know that.
But we definitely have people that rotate in and out of the chairs when some of us aren't using them as well. Yeah. So we have more people than
we do chairs. Mhmm. Yeah. 10 barbers, seven stations.
Mhmm. So
I remember no. You go, Tim.
How was all the how is that managed in terms of do you is that do you have a software platform that manages, like, who's got chairs on what day at what time, or is that just
Yeah.
You all do that?
Mhmm. Yep. Yep. And everybody has access to that. Mhmm.
Yeah. Like, every barber has a set schedule so they know when they're coming in, what days, what times.
What is that? Mevo?
Yes. That's what we use.
Yep.
Yeah. They do all, like, the text like, hey. You gotta confirm your thing type of thing. Yeah. So it's it's nice from that perspective.
(02:07):
It was was COVID the hardest thing for you guys?
Oh, yeah. That was Mhmm. Man, that was serious. Yeah. It was.
Yeah. I mean, what Yeah. Completely shut down. One of those businesses completely shut down
Yep.
For a long time.
Till the last day that we were allowed to be open.
Mhmm.
Well well, walk us through those days because, you know, we haven't I don't know that we've talked to a lot of people who really went got, like, completely shut down shut down, Tim, because I think a lot of the companies we typically talk to are more software related. Mhmm. But, you know, maybe a restaurant, but, like, y'all I mean, you just got the call basically saying, hey. Like, you gotta turn off the door. You know?
Yeah. Turn off the lights. Does how do you guys walk through that? Because I think what you guys did was admirable, and you you kept a lot of people on, if not everyone on. And Yeah.
How was that?
Right. It was It was rough.
We did a lot of FaceTiming. Yeah. Between the three of us, definitely. Yeah. We definitely busted out and did our PPP loan as as fast and as diligently as we could trying to figure out what a lot of that meant.
It was a lot of Yeah. Newnesses with it. Luckily, we did get our saving grace was that we did get approved for our landlord did work with us for it saying that we didn't have to make a rent payment. Just make whatever you could as long as by the end of the year, we made we were fully caught up with our rent. So that was a saving grace for us because they understood we were fully shut down.
We had nothing to give.
People could still buy products. Yeah. And we would, like, meet some one of us three would meet them there.
To yeah. Because they could purchase it online, and we would just meet them there to give them their hair
products. We also had a lot of people who bought gift certificates and then not used it. Just, like, kinda like a donation to the barbershop so that way we could stay in business, which I thought was amazing because, I mean They weren't making very much either at
the time, so it was nice to be able to have that. Yeah. But when the PPP loan did come in, we were able to pay everything in full. We did go through and pay all of our employees for the time that they did miss at work. So because some of them, before they came to us, they were not eligible for, what was it?
Work not workman's comp. Unemployment. Unemployment. Yeah. Because of wherever they had worked before with previous barbershops, they weren't eligible for it.
Yeah. So they were struggling even harder. Yeah. Which is sad.
And we did allow them like, clearly, they have access to their books, but, like, a lot of people would Facebook message them and be like, can you come to my house and do a haircut? And they would ask us, and we were like, that's on you. Like, you a 100% can go and hang out with your client to cut some hair. But yeah.
(02:28):
Maybe you guys should on the top charge for this.
Yeah. I
mean, I feel like right after COVID was when we really, really, really, like, picked up. Like, you it was, like, two, three weeks before you could get an appointment on our books. Yes. People were so excited that we were finally back open. It was like I was like, I missed my friends.
Like, I remember when we first came back, they're like, can I hug you?
And I'm like, yes. Like, I didn't know the rules. I was like, I just need a hug. But yeah.
It's one of days.
Woody, do you have any standards that are put in place or not standards is not the right word. But, like, how do you develop that type of relationship with your clients? And and how do you hire people to ensure that they meet those same standards as you're growing your business?
That's tricky.
Yeah. We've definitely had some some people that have come through that did not stay or stick with us, and it it wasn't necessarily that they didn't meet our standards or requirements. I like to say it was that they just didn't meet the longevity that they could have with us.
Yeah.
You know, you meet some people that are meant to be with you through, like, long times, then you meet some people that are just with you, you know, like, a good short time. Yeah. And we've gotten lucky that we have met a good group of people that have met with us for a long time.
Yeah. So I do, like, 98% of the hiring. Yes. And I feel like I have a good gut instinct. And I don't know.
I just kinda feel like you can read people. I feel like I can read some people, and there are some people who I'm like
Yeah. I feel like it's like it's always, like, give six months. Yeah. You know, until either one, they get comfortable or, like, the, like, the real
The crazy starts to show.
Yeah. How
do you get that crazy out of someone, though, in a in in a short period of time so you can really see their true colors?
Because They they just
They just happen themselves. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. We we had to fire a girl, and she was like, am I being punked?
And we were like, no. No. You're not being punked.
Am being punked?
(02:49):
And she kept coming in
the office like, am I being punked? And we were like, no. This is a real thing. Mhmm. And she was like, are you sure?
Yes. We're sure. But I feel like and you kinda just lead by example. Like, if you want your barber to clean up after themselves, us as owners have to clean up after ourselves. Yep.
We're not like, when we first started out, like, we were cleaning the toilets. We were mopping the floors. We were doing the laundry. We were picking up. So we're not gonna hire somebody to be like, you're going to do this.
Like, I'm not gonna tell you to do something that we haven't already done or that we also wouldn't do ourselves. Or still aren't. Yeah. When our front desk takes a break, we answer the phones. We still book appointments.
We still cash people out. You know? So I think a good thing is, like, you lead by example, and they know what they can and can't get away with because, like, I will let you know. Like, that's not appropriate
or don't be doing that.
So I always tell the people, I'm like, if I have to come to talk to you, then you know. And they're like, okay. It's fair. Mhmm. Yep.
Zach, when you roll in there, do you Heather knows exactly what what needs to happen? You just sit down
and From a haircut? Like a like a haircut perspective? No. Because I'm a pain in the ass, and I probably change my mind every once in a while. So Yes.
Actually, I learned this I learned this maybe a year ago from from Kelly, and it was showing pictures is okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I always thought I was like, what? You guys want me to look through this silly little book and point at something and be like, you know, that's it.
No. That actually gives a good gauge because, you know, it's hard to communicate. This is what I'm thinking. This is what the expert is is is hearing. And so showing that picture Yeah.
You know, I think I I it was a picture of a soccer player. You know, it had a little bit of a something going on. I was like, let's do that. So what about you, Tim?
Mhmm. Kids do that all the time. Mhmm.
Yeah. I I mean, it's it was yeah. The first couple times, then I just go in. It's just, like, same same as as we always do. So
Yeah.
What do you all these hair all these hair products that are, like, fixing the loss of hair. It seems like that's really become not like Rogaine wasn't big in the past and things like that, but it seems like that stuff is actually working in in some regards. At least that's what the marketing is saying. No. It's not
working. Rogaine?
Any any like, is there you know, people come in there like, oh, I'm balding. You know? Like, every time I go in there, I I I freak out about that. But, like, is there what? I don't wanna bald.
Like, that's, like seems like the worst. Like, one of the worst.
Got. Don't use Rogaine. That causes impotence in men. It says it right on the box. It's just not very big.
(03:10):
It's one of those, like, warnings. Yeah.
It's like there are other things that you can use that are much better projects. That's not it.
Yeah. Don't use Rogaine. And then as soon as you stop using Rogaine, you like, everything that you've
grown falls out. Mhmm.
Yeah. Oh, wow. Nutrafol is good. Xenogen is good. Good.
Yeah. We usually tell people about Nutrafol. What
are some of the crazy are these, like, the questions that people ask about, though?
Mhmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
We have clients who are like, hey. Am I balding back here? Or my wife says I'm balding, or is my hairline receding? Or like, they ask us questions, and I'm like, I will be honest if you want me to be honest.
Just please not be upset with me. Yeah. Let me answer you.
Yeah.
There are some who are super paranoid about it, and I'm like, you got nothing to worry about. But then there are some where I'm like, oh.
But my favorite is the ones where I'm like, you're not actually balding. You're just brushing your hair the wrong direction, so it makes it look that way.
Like, it parts back here. And yeah.
Is that a real answer, or you're just messing around?
No. No. No. Seriously. Yeah.
They've just been brushing their hair the wrong direction for their calyx, so it makes them look bald. They've been doing it for years and had no idea. It's fantastic.
Wow.
But you can't see back there, so
you don't know
(03:31):
until somebody tells you. Yeah. Right.
Well, I take my my cellular device out. I'm like,
Well, I also like to talk in. I'm like, good thing you're over six foot tall because nobody can see that spot. Sure. Going for you as well.
I knew this show was gonna be ridiculous. This
I'm like, let's just we'll, you know, we'll do a low taper fade, and we'll let this grow, and we'll just kinda slick it back. And It's kinda We'll cover it. It up a little bit.
We'll cover
it. And they're always like, okay. So yeah. But I've said you're not going bald if he really is going bald. That's fair.
Like, I'm not gonna lie.
How do you guys make the decisions on, like, your expansion? Because when you guys open four chairs a little bit more than that, then you guys decide to build the office and then a couple other chairs. What, like, what what metrics are you looking at? Are you looking at other shops in the area? Like, how how do you look at any of those and make sure that you're you're not gonna make a bad decision from that perspective?
Because I think growth is it can be challenging. I I I always try to use the example of this place in Downtown Norfolk. It was called Empire. It was a restaurant. It's on the corner.
There was 30 seats. Then they get an offer to go two doors down, three doors down to a 120 seat unit, and it basically closed in three months. And so it's crazy how growth can go the wrong way, and sometimes it goes the right way. And so how do you guys kind of look at your metrics to make educated decisions?
We always know, like, bigger is not always better. Yeah. We worked for a place that expanded, and it went to heck after that.
But
when we're completely full, like, when we were open Tuesday through Saturday and all four of us were completely booked, we're like, okay. We need to add another chair. And so then we added another chair. And then we were only doing one pedicure at a time. We used to have two pedicure chairs, and we were like, we're not making money on two.
So the smartest thing to do is just get rid of one pedicure chair and put another barber seat there. And then we just kept growing and growing as of, like, everybody's book is full. We're like, what else can we do? We know we don't wanna, like, knock down a wall and get a whole another place. So it was either, like, open more days and add another barber or two or open up another location, which is really, really risky.
And we're like, we're not even we're just gonna open up the six days. So we kinda just sit around and talk about it, and we're like, look at the numbers and Shoot ideas. Just kinda fucking wing it. Wait. Oops.
Sorry. Kinda wing it. Sorry. Whoops.
Whoopsies. There's the Boston.
But, yeah, no. We just talk about it.
Allegedly, p g 13, now you can have one, I think, two f bombs. I don't Sorry. I was not
okay. Well, did he say that it was supposed to be p g 13?
(03:52):
I don't know. It wasn't warned, Zach.
It wasn't warned. We got no warning.
You know, barbershop talk.
Sometimes I think that you all should you you should have your own podcast. It's always talk about the crazy.
I say Oh, yeah. I always say we need a TV show, and Ashley's like Ashley's like, nope. Nope. I'm like, okay. We can
do it get canceled. No. Think so.
No. We wouldn't.
There's a lot of, like, obscure content out there that you would never think is popular that gets millions of subscribers. It's crazy. Yeah. Right? So, like, there's a there's a hair company.
I believe it's called Beardbrand where they just trim beards, I guess, on camera, and they put, like, a GoPro or something on the guys. It's either here or here. They look down. They they record that. I'm like, it's interesting.
Like, how
It's hard for the guy to respond if he's getting his beard done because then you're gonna, like, mess up
It's quick, like, makes somebody be quiet. You say? Yeah. Yeah.
Especially if you're, like, going around the mustache area. Mhmm. You can't they can't talk. No. I mean, I we say it all the time.
So many clients, like, you guys need your own TV show. And she's always like, no. No.
You you can just sit back and be the executive producer. You don't have to be on.
I'm like, he'll just fuzz you out. You could just be fuzzy. But so we're still working on her, Zach. We're still working on her. It's been almost eight years, and she just keeps shooting it down.
So I'm like, man. I
don't I
don't blame you.
Hell no. Why? Do
you all one thing that I've always wished that there was, and maybe you all offer this. I don't know, but a subscription service. They x amount of dollar. And then if you need to go in for a quick trim up or whatever, you know, all that stuff's already prepaid in advance and, you know, like, I just wish that that was there.
(04:13):
Technically. We don't have a
subscription service, but Black Friday through Christmas Eve, we have a gift card set special where you buy a 100 and you get $25 Free. Free or, like, add it to your account. So a lot of people buy bulk of that. That way, they never have to see the front desk. Like, they there's and then there's a pop up note for how much they're gonna leave for a tip.
Oh, it's gonna be loud. I'm gonna get And their service. So they have enough for the whole year. Mhmm.
So it covers them down for when they know they're coming in for x amount of collar trims, x amount of haircuts, if you're doing x amount of, like, massages. Like, they incorporate all that, and they know it because they're so regular with everything that they pay for everything upfront with their gift card, and they just know.
Yeah. You're saying, though, like, Tim, like, $60 a month, $100 a month. If you Right. If you realize you're having a bad hair day, you want you want one of
the latest ills the too little. Recognize that revenue up in in advance for you all as the business owners. And then
Well, the problem with that is it's hard to get in Yeah. On our so, like, if somebody
But but so, like but that would be one of the perks, though, is that they would have priority booking, if you will, and you you could have that on a reoccurring schedule. But if they needed to come in just to get a little trimmy trim, you know, they got a TV shoot or something, Whatever they gotta do. But I it would just be a way to I don't know. I just I wish that that was something that was offered.
Yeah. We just don't have, like, wiggle room on our books in order to
do that. But we do offer reoccurring, like, scheduling, and
you can have it go out for as many years as you want. Yeah. Like, you can come every other day Mhmm. And have it set up that way for the next three years if you want. It's called, like, a standing appointment, but it's not you don't pay extra for it.
I've got clients that come every week. Yeah. Same. And the same exact appointment time every single week. Yeah.
That seems a little absurd. Like, what is the I I know the answer is that.
Growth rate?
So I have clients that come every week, and one week, it's for their beard trim. Mhmm. And they get cleaned up, and they get their shave with it. And then the next week, it's haircut and beard trim. It's it's actually an entire family of them, and it's every single week.
But that's their pampering. That's, like, their thing that they do for themselves every week. Yeah. To them, that's normal. Like I have a few clients.
It's their form of self care, which and nowadays, everybody needs some type of self care if you think about it, whether that's you talking to a therapist, you're getting a massage, you're getting your feet done, you're going out for coffee. What's the difference between getting a $7 coffee every single day or going to get a haircut once a week? That makes you feel fantastic. And you have someone to talk to every week. Mhmm.
It's about the same thing if you think about it.
Mhmm. I mean
$77 for a coffee seems a little absurd in itself. What like, what is that?
Just much milk?
(04:34):
Of that. But I'm saying everybody has their vices. If that's his one vice every single week
Yeah.
Who am I to judge next to the girl that pays $7 for a cup of coffee every single day? Yeah. Or someone that goes and does pays $300 a month to go do CrustFit every week. Everybody's got their vices. That's just their vice.
Mhmm.
And it's free therapy. Yeah.
It is free therapy. Like,
it's free therapy.
How do you all, as three partners, make sure that you guys are communicating, not fighting, like, keeping things, you know, in the growth mode? Because I I think you could make the argument that things in, you know, salons and barber shops can be a little filled with drama. But three of you guys, eight years into this, still, if not best friends, pretty darn close to best friends, you know, real close. And I'm like, how do you not get sick of each other? How do you make sure that, like, you can make cordial business decisions and things like that?
Because I think that's, like, a real thing. Like, you like Yeah. If you're really good friends with someone, like, it's probably not a good idea to start a business with them. But, yeah, you guys have shown that, hey. Like, it can work.
Because everybody does their own thing. Like, every we know, like, this is what Ashley does.
This is what I do.
This is what Heather does. And so we try not to step on each other's toes. It was a little rough in the beginning. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, you if you It's a growing experience.
You all want the same goal, and we just have to remind, like, this is why we started it because we did love each other, and we were friends, and we still hang out all the time. We go on vacations together.
And Pre sessions help too. Yeah. I mean, it's like it's almost like a marriage. Like, people are married to sixty, seventy years. And sometimes we forget even though, like, we're our own individual people even though we work together almost every single day.
We talk to each other almost every single day that sometimes we do have to remind ourselves like, hey. Like, I'm still here. Like, guess what's happening this week? Or, Hey. This happened or, hey.
You weren't here today, but so and so and so. Because sometimes we get so used to the other person being there that even if they're not there, I'm like sometimes I'm like, oh,
I didn't tell you. And she's like, no. And I'm like,
I always say, everything always happens when I'm not here, because I'm never I don't work on Tuesdays. So I'm like, hey. I'll come to work, I'm like, hey. What happened yesterday? And I'm so to me, it's like a funny happens on Tuesdays.
Yeah. Everything happens on Tuesdays. Mhmm. And we're like, did you tell Ashley?
Wait. I get a haircut on Tuesdays.
See? It all happens on Tuesdays. That's why
(04:55):
I never see you. Yeah.
I just think to Tim, like, when you talk about founders, like, the like, it like, I I admire that you guys are actually still close because I think that can be such a difficult thing. And it's Mhmm. It's it's just very unique. And and and I and I appreciate what you guys just said there because you see so many, like, just butting of heads of people, and it's like, man, like, communicate.
But I also feel like we're not, like, girly girlies. Yeah. Like, we don't want the drama, and that's why we do own a barbershop to work on men because, like, don't bring it. Like, if there's somebody that brings drama and we're just like, no. We're no.
We worked that. We're not doing that no more. And, like, when we sat down to do this, everybody had their specific job, and you just stick with that. It just works. I don't know.
Everyone always asks, because do you guys still like each other? We're like, yeah. We hang out all the time. Mhmm. Like, all the time.
If my kids can't get ahold of me to ask me a question, they call Heather. That's fair. So and then she's like, did your daughter call you? I'm like, no. But, yeah, it just works.
I think Heather was my son's emergency contact for school.
At school. Yeah. Yeah. Our kids were the same age. They grew up.
They helped us, you know, paint the barbershop, and they were going roller skating together. They were going bowling together. So it just I don't know. We got really lucky, and I feel like it's a risk a respect thing too. Like, everybody just respects each other.
What is happening to you? He's telling him we
can't hear. What's what's the future for, for you all? It's multiple locations continuing to build out. What's what's the plan?
Just take it one day at a time. We we we love our barbershop now. Like, we're super, super happy where we're at. Everything just flows. There are days where we don't even have to be there, and we can count on our front desk to take control.
We have really good barbers Yep. That do what they're supposed to do when we're not there. Nobody takes advantage of us. Like It's just nice. It's just nice.
And it's scary to go and add something else because that's not how a lot of people are. Can't you know?
Sometimes multiple locations is not always it. Yeah.
And then we'd be separated. Somebody would have to go there. And That's not nice. And we don't we we don't want that. Maybe one day, like, somebody that works for us or with us can open up a location.
And
Yeah.
But as of right now, we like what we're doing, and we enjoy going to work every day. And it's not very stressful. I feel like if we opened up another location, it would be a little bit stressful, but it's hard to find the people. Like, there's people that have applied lately that aren't even licensed when we try to find them Yeah. To make sure they are licensed.
How long is the licensing process?
Depends on the person. Mhmm. It's fifteen hundred hours, so it depends on how long it take the person to to go through those hours to get it.
(05:16):
School. If you're an apprentice, it's, what, twenty five hundred hours, like working hours? Oh, I think
Yeah.
It's longer. Yeah. So it's a little longer, but you're actually, like, working in a shop under somebody's license. And you have to, like, do the bookwork yourself, and we have to log the hours for The Apprentice. So if you go to school like, it took me nine months to get a license because I went to cosmetology school full time up in Massachusetts.
Is that is that length as long as it is because of what you guys are using, a deadly weapon type of thing? Like, what what why does it have to be so long? I mean, it just obviously, I can't cut my own hair. I can't I can't cut my
own hair. I can't
do anything. I don't know what that is.
Yeah. I I don't know why. Because every state's different. Like, California has different like, the amount of time you have to go and Virginia has
I think a lot of it just has to do with making sure, like obviously, you're learning a vast of different things that you have to know, but a lot of it really kinda boils down to make sure you can understand the sanitation process to make sure you're not passing on blood borne diseases and staph infections and different things to people that they don't need to get that can kill them, yeah, essentially.
Well well, thank you for the department of cleanliness for that.
We're very clean. Like, very clean. I will drop a comb, and you literally it's you cannot pick it up and keep working on it. Mhmm. And I have so many clients that, like, I'll drop the comb, and they're like, you can get it.
I'm like, no. No. I can't. Like, I don't mind. I'm like, no.
You under like Yeah. Legally, we cannot pick it up and start working on your hair. So yeah.
So usually, you're, like, a little quicker. Like, you're just
No. I'm I'm this is this is a fascinating conversation for me. And
Yeah.
Okay. So you guys won the CovaBiz best of business a handful of times. Right?
Yeah.
How do you how do you guys go about doing that, winning, stuff like that? Because
We didn't even know we were nominated the first Oh. Few times we got nominated. We had no idea. Then all of sudden, were like they came to us, they're like, you guys won. And we were like, oh, did we?
And we don't nominate ourselves. We don't ask people to vote for us. I don't know. It just happens. That's cool.
I guess we're just that good. Sorry.
(05:37):
What is this tune that keeps popping out, like, four times? Like, what is that? Like, someone
Sorry. It's just notifications that keeps coming through. I can't stop it.
Anything good? That
that's the sound of money hitting the hitting the account.
Like, what does it say? Because it pops up on the screen now.
If I knew how to stop it, I would.
I'm sorry.
No worries. Does every barber have a tattoo? Like, what percentage of barbers have tattoos?
Actually, I think they all do.
Lori wait. I don't think Lori does. Lori is she's our oldest barber. I love her. Every time I call her miss Lori, she drops the f bomb at me because I at all?
I don't
think so. I'm pretty sure. But she could have a high I don't think miss Lori has a tattoo.
We're gonna find out, though.
I think A very high, like, a very high amount, like, 95% plus. Tim, does the person who cuts your hair, do they have a tattoo?
No. I well, not that I'm aware of. Nothing visible anyway.
Yeah. Could be hidden.
I don't know. I had somebody ask me the other day. They're like, oh, is that new? I'm like, no.
Yeah. I always I'm always cold, so rarely do I ever have short sleeves on in the shop. And if I don't have a long sleeve on, somebody's like, woah. You have tattoos. I'm like, uh-uh.
Because I'm always I'm always cold.
How do y'all get the word out about what you guys do?
Yeah. I wanna find out about marketing as well. Word-of-mouth.
(05:58):
And then recently, like, Chesapeake Moms Group.
Is that a Facebook group or something?
Yes. I
was like, where do you guys get volleys for your kids? And everybody says, Anchorage barbershop. It's mostly
Like, someone will post where to get a haircut, and then they post Anchorage, and then that just pops up through.
Yeah.
So there's been no, like, specific effort towards coordinated effort towards that. I mean, that's great to basically be at a full book of business.
Yeah. Well, we also took a lot of clients am I allowed to say that?
A lot of clients followed Yeah. Us
when we left. So I had already had a pretty well established book, and Heather already had a pretty established book. So Ashley had only been working with us for about two and a half years at the other place. So she was lucky enough she got to take, like, a lot the walk ins and, like, the newer clients. So it's just word-of-mouth.
And we had a huge barbershop barbershop flag outside. That was pretty much the only thing. Laurie has no tattoos. Laurie has no tattoos.
Laurie has no tattoos, we asked.
She's been a barber for I don't actually know. Forty years. Yeah. Yeah. She's great.
And we don't do anything
we don't post a lot on social media either. We don't have time. We did at one point in
time do that car show when we first opened. Yeah. I think We
had a car show at the convention center.
Yeah. We did that when we first opened. That was it. I think that was really about it. Yeah.
Okay. So no no recurring marketing.
Occasionally, Alan will give us a shout out on +1 061, but that's about it. Yeah. Okay.
So some guy named Alan. Yeah. Literally.
(06:19):
Yeah. Yeah.
And okay. So but but I think the key to that is, okay. You get the business, but then keeping the business is then the difficult part. What do you guys do to retain these clients twelve, fourteen, 52 times a year? Like, what's the go to strategy there?
We give a good haircut. We're not super expensive. You just have a relationship with the people, good customer service. We have free beer. Oh,
yeah. Yeah.
And, you know, I also was, like, father sons too.
Mhmm.
I have a lot of clients who I've been cutting hair since they were, like, three or four, and now they're 16, 17, still driving. So, yeah, we just feel like it's just the relationship you grow with the person in your chair.
You keep coming back. Yeah. Why?
Well, my next question is how do I fire a barber?
Oh my god.
You can't.
I'm
stuck now, Zach. We know too much about you. I guess that's, like,
a good question for you. Like, why did you follow Heather when there were other options around where you lived? Because
Yeah. How did you find out about Heather's
Megan had bought me a birthday present that was like it wasn't just a haircut. It was a bunch of crap. It was, I think, it was, like, a it was a massage. It might have been, like, a manic manicure, pedicure.
Little mani pedi.
The steam the steam thing. Mhmm. Probably, like, the the beard thing
Mhmm.
Back when I didn't have a beard. Mhmm. And I was like, that's cool. And then I think I, like, didn't go back to Heather the next time. I think Kelly has cut my hair maybe once, maybe.
I don't know.
(06:40):
Just once.
And then I went back. Well, you know, the hair cuttery sucks.
Yeah.
Well, I
think it's the point.
Places like that, like, as soon as you hit the fifteen hundred hours, like, that's where it like like, that's where you start.
Yeah. Yeah. You have to. It's like a. I did.
I don't I don't think I'm an upscale person in the slightest, but I don't know. I felt like a little bit better there. Maybe it was the beer that got me. I don't know. But and then I well, when you guys opened up your own thing, I remembered I don't know if you guys knew this, but Heather would say, oh, we're doing this.
And I was like, are you guys sure? You guys sure you wanna do this? Like, it's it's hard.
Yeah.
And no. I think at that point, was like, okay. Like, she had been cutting my hair during the TV show days. And I was like, well, I guess I gotta stick with this chick.
There it is. Oh, it kind of yeah. Yeah. Half a shot roll.
I mean, men are loyal to their barbers. Like, we've noticed, like, men are really loyal. If they have an emergency, we're like, hey. I can't fit you in, but Ashley can. And they're like, I love Ashley.
But it's just something it's just like trust that you build. Lot of men like to come in and sit down and tell us what's been going on with their life the past month. Mhmm. And they don't have to think about their haircut. They don't have to think about what they're doing.
They don't have to tell me. They know that as soon as they are done, they look good and they feel good, and I feel like that's a pretty big deal for most men. Like, men are loyal Yeah. To their barbers. Like, really loyal.
To their barbers.
Yeah. It's true. So that family I told you about, if I'm not there, they won't come in for a haircut. I know. Like, at all.
Yeah. I get that. Like, there's, every once in a while where we the place that I go to, they'll be like, if there's someone else that I don't know, it's like, uh-uh. I'm gonna Yeah. My reservation was was with you.
And Mhmm.
Yeah. We all talk amongst each other. Like, because we're so close and we've been doing this for so long, our clients end up coming in at the same time as the next client, like, in the chair. So Yeah. They end up getting to know each other, and we get to know the client.
Like, I know Zach pretty well because he sits with Heather, and I sit right on the side of Heather. And so it just it's such a familiarity. Is that the right word that I say prop probably?
(07:01):
Yeah.
Okay.
Close enough.
Yeah. And he shows his caps off all the time. And I I'm I'm working on it, Zach. I'm
working. That.
Yeah. He's like, see that, Kelly? He's like, rub it in.
Oh, boy.
Well, I mean, what do you expect me to do? You know, if you have an asset, show it.
That's fair, Zach. That's fair.
Yeah. It's it's it's
I mean, I would show them off too if I had them.
It's Jeans. It's I didn't do anything. Maybe it was soccer and lacrosse growing up. I don't know, but I feel like it's Jeans. G e n e, not j e a n, for those of you wondering.
I know. Because when I met your wife that time, all I talked about was your calves, and she was like, it's genetics. Don't let them fool you.
I can't imagine Megan saying that ever.
Yeah. How
did you guys pick the location that you guys are in?
We knew where we wanted to be because there was no other barbershops around. And we hooked in Virginia Beach first. Yeah. It was kinda centrally located. Like, me and Heather were in Suffolk, and Ashley was in Chesapeake.
Was in Virginia Beach. Oh, yeah. You were always Yeah. You were in Virginia Beach. And so when we were looking, we knew what we wanted.
We Heather had sat down on her iPad and was like, okay. We want this much square footage. We wanna put this here. We wanna put this here. We wanna do this.
And so when we we already had, like
Heather was a whiz with all the layouts and, like, all the designing on how everything should look. Like, that was all her forte.
(07:22):
Like, and there was And we had to be so many miles away from the barbershop that we had already worked at.
Mhmm.
It was, like,
in a contract. So we were like, okay. Well, Chesapeake is centrally located. And like I said, when we picked out that spot eight and a half years ago or eight years ago, there was no other barbershops there. Mm-mm.
We did look at Independence, a town center.
Yes. On a Saturday, it took twenty five minutes to get off the exit. So that wasn't terrible. Traffic was a nightmare.
The only time, like, traffic's really a nightmare is around Christmas time, but that mall's kinda fizzled out. So
No. There's still traffic there then.
Well, yeah.
It's in Greenbrier, Tim. Mhmm. And, yeah. I mean, there's a lot right there. And then, obviously, the dollar thing went up, that whole
Yeah. Have ever thought
It's it's pretty slow.
Have you ever thought about having a haircut roulette wheel where you spin the wheel and wherever it lands, that's the haircut that that person will get? Like, it could be a mullet.
Some It
could be a
board.
A flat top. I think that would be really fun. Alright.
Only if you're the first one to do it.
It could be it could you could a lot of people do that with beards too. They're like, oh, how can I you know, I'm I'm gonna shave my beard? We know ultimately I'm gonna get to that, but how can we make it look as ridiculous as possible and, like Yeah. Okay. We shave here, get the chops, then we're gonna do the Hulk Hogan.
You know? Was that a Fu Manchu? Like, how about just the, you know, the the creeper stash? Stash.
Yeah. No. That's I I have a specific name for people that have those type of mustaches.
(07:43):
I don't think she can
say that on here. Say on here.
What so, like but when people come into the chair and they they ask for a certain cut and you're, like, thinking to yourself, this isn't this isn't the cut that you need.
We let them know. We let them know. We let them know. Because I would want somebody to let me know.
Yeah. And they take it pretty well? And and do they go with your, they they go with your recommendation?
Sometimes they don't, and then they come back a few weeks later, and they're like, I should've listened. I should've listened. Yeah.
Is that because, like, their hairstyle? Like, they in the same way that you're saying someone's, like, is the wrong like like, what haircut would not work for for me?
A fryer tub. Flat top.
Oh, my dad has a flat top. He
likes it. The beaver with the
swoopy veins. You definitely wouldn't work with that llama style haircut.
Prior to good lord.
The broccoli cut?
The who?
The broccoli. Or the llama. You know, these kids look they have that poofy bang in the front, and it's, like, tapered low, and
they have to walk around like this and look down Yeah. So they can see.
Oh, wow. That's
really It is You
can't unsee it. Yeah.
Is the mullet the, is that is the new fad, that's that's happening right now?
Yeah. It's like a modern mullet, so it's not like
(08:04):
the Is is that all thanks to Morgan Wallen? Is he, the the call group?
And some baseball players. Like, all the kids I have that play travel ball have mullets.
Is that from the bananas? The Savannah bananas? No. Because I
feel like it was on I feel like it started with Morgan Wallen. Yeah. Because now nowadays, they're perming their mullets too. Yeah. We don't
We're bringing back the perm.
Wait. Guys, perm their mullets.
Yes. Yes.
Wow.
Some of them. We don't perm mullets. Not anymore. Well
No one
should perm mullets. No one
You'd be surprised,
especially when the parents are letting the kids get their hair permed at a young age. Yeah.
Oh, is that a bad thing?
It just grows out on a boy so quickly.
Yeah. That's a lot of money to spend on a child whose hair grows so fast. Yeah.
Is it true that your hair is actually dead when it's, like, out, or is it how does that work? I had heard that at some point in life.
I mean, it's keratin. It's the same thing as your fingernails are made out of. Mhmm. So, I mean, it's not, like, living, but it's not necessarily dead. It's not necessarily dead, but
you can damage it just like you can your nail bed. So it's like, you know, it's like a weird in between thing. Mhmm.
Yeah. Your hair will break at the ends, and you'll need a haircut. Like, I need one, but nobody can
see that.
(08:25):
Nobody can see that. But, yeah, it's not dead. I wouldn't call it dead.
What's something we haven't talked about that you wanna talk about? I'm not sure if I've asked this. I'm scared.
You're scared? Is that what you said?
I'm scared of your potential answer. Yes.
With PG. I was just born. It's PG.
'13.
Yeah. I mean, I feel like everybody's always really, really shocked that we are still friends. Yeah. But, like, how are you still friends? Or, like, when we've been open for so long, we were told that the first we weren't gonna survive the first year.
Yeah. Or do.
We were criticized on, like, the color of the walls and The light bulbs. And, like, dumb things like that. And we were like, watch us. I feel like that was such a motivator at first, and now it's just everything's like a greased wheel. It just keeps going.
But, like, we had a lot of people, like, be like, you're not gonna make it. Okay. Here we are. Still make
I love I love the haters. I love the motivation from that.
I mean, it really gives you so much motivation to to be like, okay. Watch.
I'm not allowed to use the word phrasing on here because it's PG.
Yeah. Saw PG 13, but you know?
I have a I have a phrase I like to use when people like to, you know, be that way. It's on a
cup here. Hold on a second. Oh, she'll
Oh, lord. This
It's fine.
You know
what? Here we go.
Oh, there you go.
(08:46):
Yeah. See, there you go. I didn't say it.
I just showed it
to you, so it's fine.
Mhmm. There's
your there's your thumbnail. Mhmm.
Yeah.
What's the three of you, you finish you finish the day. You wanna go out for a a drink or a a meal. Where is the go to place, and what is that beverage or meal that everybody should try?
Oh, no. I feel like we we're all so different because she's, like, vegan kind of.
So She just can't eat dairy. Yeah. I can't have dairy.
So it's usually around, like, what she she usually knows the good spots because, like, she knows what she can eat. So we will get something around her diet. We Yeah. We go for coffee a lot.
Yeah. We do. A lot of coffee. Lots of coffee. A lot of smoothie bowls lately too because it's so warm outside.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, we're going to eat when we leave here. We haven't decided where we're gonna go. Mhmm.
But yeah. But we try to do that all the time. Like, even after work, we'll go to, like, Mexican. Everyone likes guac. Yeah.
She'll get guac. I get burritos.
I feel like you guys did not answer that question at all. You kinda, like, just skirted around.
Like There's no there's no go to place. There's no regular.
No. No. We like to mix up. We go to a lot of different places. We don't really drink the way that we used to drink back in the day anymore.
So that one's kind of like we that we can't really answer that. Yeah.
So if you have a new client that comes in, if they are looking for a recommendation
Oh, I can't answer that because I don't live out in Chesapeake. And I literally tell them that.
Have to tell them a lot. We tell them a lot to go to, like, Summit Point. Like, there's, like, Meatbird over there. There's Cork and Bowl. There's that Uche place over
(09:07):
there. Taco.
Yeah. Union taco is really good.
A good fried chicken sandwich down there is chicken roll.
Chicken roll? Yeah. Haven't been there.
It's on Battlefield to ask Misty about it. She she likes it.
If you haven't been to number one taco yet, that shit's chef's kiss. So good.
There's a Puerto Rican coffee shop at Grassfield that's really good. It's called Kin Kinley's. Kinley's. Yeah.
See, now we're getting somewhere. Okay. Now we're
getting somewhere.
Well, this has been an absolute delight. I am it was wonderful to chat with you guys. Thank you for your time. Final thoughts, Tim?
It was a fun hour as they all are. But, yeah, this is the first this is the first. Yeah. Three people on one screen. We're used to having multiple screens and whatnot, but they no.
I appreciate the the insight. I wish you continued success wherever that takes you all. Enjoy every day as you as you that seems to be the place where you wanna go, so enjoy every day. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for having us.
Hey, everybody. I'm Tim Ryan, executive director of Innovate Hampton Roads, and I'm inviting you to attend the StartUp World Cup on August 21, 05:00 here at Town Center in Virginia Beach.
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