Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
So I went to him privately afterwards, and I said, look. I I'm very troubled by that, and I I'm I I need you to know it's just not something I'm gonna be able to do. And he said, well, then you don't have any right to call yourself a reporter. And I thought, I guess that's right. You know, I mean, I guess that's true.
(00:01):
I think in every career, there may come a moment where you have been aligned and it's a fit, and then you're not a fit anymore. And so that was the moment I said, okay. Yep. I think you're right. I think I think this I think this is not right for me.
That is exactly right because I cannot do that. So I've made a very graceful exit, and that that was it.
Usually, we do a quick or, like, a longer intro. I don't think we should do What do you think?
Well, there's a lot to talk about with this show, so I'm excited about that. At the same time, I don't I don't always get nervous I don't really ever get nervous for the show. But I feel like for this show, this is episode two sixty eight. So we've done this this is our two hundred and sixty eighth time doing this. But, like, I feel I still feel like I'm, like, just playing modern day media.
And so now we're we're having, like, no kidding media, really legend in in our community on the show. So I feel like I need to up my game a little bit.
I love that your nervousness makes me laugh. When I met this individual, it was when Start Norfolk one was happening. We did a quick quick ten minute phone call on the show for Start Norfolk one back in 2011. Super appreciative of that. And then many times after, was able to go on her show, Hearsay.
Was it Hearsay with with Kathy Lewis? Yep. Was her name in the name? Smart.
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Smart.
People don't realize, like, throwing your name in something, like, there's a real branding aspect to that because then the repetition of that is there. So, Kathy Lewis, thanks for being here today. You you made Tim Ryan nervous.
The well, this is hilarious. When I heard Tim say that, I I will now let's have an under the seal of the confessional true confession moment here. I've been nervous about this for ten days. And I I really haven't because I'm very rarely in this position, and it gives me great empathy for, you know, for what I put people through for twenty five years. But, yeah, I've been nervous about it for a week.
So, Tim, we are we are together in our anxiety, and so we will press through through together. I mean, very excited to be here.
Is it because you don't know what questions we're gonna ask?
Yes. Yes.
See, and that's what you guys do to us.
I know. That's what I'm saying.
Bring them back.
Really what what is this? Karma or turnabout as fair play or whatever. Yes. I I
The hunter becomes the hunted.
Yes. Yes. So I will confess to my anxiety, but I think love both you guys, and so I think we're gonna have a great we're we're gonna have a great time of it. We'll just I love the idea of, like, an hour just to kinda see where our conversation goes. That is magical, and I hope people listening will have a fun time of it.
Yeah. Yeah. Traffic report first?
Yeah. What's the downtown tunnel looking like?
(00:22):
Well, so so my office is in Dominion Tower, and I am on the Fourteenth Floor. And so I've always threatened to do my side hustle would be just letting people know what the Downtown tunnel is doing, because I can look at it out it's pretty clear right now. But I can look at it out my window, which I love. This is the loveliest office I have ever had in my career, and it is delightful. I can tell when it's clear day because I can see town center from here.
It looks like Oz rising out of the rising out of the mist. So it's a it's a lovely situation. And, you know, one so I'm there is no way I ever thought I could be in an office in Dominion Tower, but one of the things I've I've really become a big believer in is, looking at what's going on in the world, looking at what's going on in the world, and figuring out where there may be opportunities for you. And so when the, you know, when COVID came, and of course, we all went home and then not all of us came back to the office, you know, folks have some office space now, that they had previously had occupied or whatever, and and these leases are, like, you know, forty years. They're not that long.
But, they're not ten minute leases. So people now may have office space that they're not using, and they may be able to let you know, they may be happy to have you use, an office in their facility, for less than the market rate. So that's my pro tip for the day. And then I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't just sort of explored a conversation and asked a friend of mine who I knew worked in this building. He was like, do you know anybody in that building who might, you know, this might be a thing?
And she said, yeah, actually, I do. So so here we are. So and my wonderful map of Hampton Roads, the area that I know and love. And I and if you ever need to know what's going on at the downtown tunnel, text me. I will let you know.
I would never get anything done with a view like that.
That's just like Well, this is why my the desk is you know, it's behind me because that you're right. That's yeah. That it's a it's a bit of a distraction, but a but a beautiful one. So yeah.
Yeah. Anyone that has any question about the the greatness of Hampton Roads, they just need an office with a view like that, and you you would appreciate it every single day.
You are so right. And I love so, you know, during the day when I I'm I'm I'm bad about taking breaks, but I'm trying to get better because this wonderful waterfront down here, you know, I can go and walk and look at the working waterfront, which is very interesting. And I like this because there's a lot of tourists that that kinda come up and down by Town Point Park and what have you. And it's just really, you know, oftentimes, you know, people will have a little bewildered look in their eyes, and I'll say, you know, hey, you have a question? What what's and there may be cruise people or tourists or whatever.
It's delightful to to interact with them, and to find out what they like about what they're seeing. I love that. And I this is such a great region to visit that, I don't know. That makes me very makes me very proud to show off our our our fair city and our fair area.
I just came back from a cruise a couple weeks ago, and, like, the best part of the cruise, I was up on the running track on Deck 11 or 12, coming back on the Elizabeth River, and, like, it was just so much fun to like, as I'm running around the track, alright. Here, this is what Portsmouth is looking like, and this is what Norfolk is looking like, and it was just that was the best part of the cruise. It was it was great.
Oh, that's magn I've been an I've been, I thought about taking a cruise out of out of Norfolk, but then I thought, I don't know because I don't know if you felt this way, but I'd be like I'd be like, look. I mean, I you know, what if I have one too many, you know, Mai Tais or something? You know? These would be all people I know getting on
the office.
So You're crazy. My
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know a lot of people. See? There was a lot of people from our our neighborhood.
There was, like, a group of 47 of them or something like that. But, thankfully, I did not run into
So it's based on what you
did. 47 people in your own neighborhood were on the same cruise as you, but you didn't
run into them? Like, from the the principal of the school all the way on down, it was
Oh. I
was I it's good, but it's great. It's such a an awesome thing that we have that we can build upon because we're bringing people in from all over the place to
to see your own region.
(00:43):
Yeah.
Oh, I love that. And I every time I drive around the corner and, you know, you see that ship when it comes in, you're just like, how in the world is it fitting in the river? Right? It's they're massive, but they're so much fun to watch. And to me, that's just more people coming and discovering what a great place this is.
So you're convincing me. I will never be on the eleventh deck on the track. I'm just gonna be very clear about But but now I'm kind of becoming convinced maybe that would be a thing that I need to, you know, swallow my anxiety about and go go give it a shot. Right?
Yeah. Exactly. I mean, my wife is well, she's already looking for the next one to
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. So we've probably been on, like, eight or nine.
We And mostly out of Norfolk just because we live here. Because it's here. Right. And it's easy. Yeah.
And so what's the worst thing traveling is going to the airport. So now you eliminate that. Like, when I lived in Ghent, it was two minutes away.
Yeah. You can walk down there. Yeah.
Yeah. We Ubered in, Ubered out, and there was no surge pricing or anything. It was so easy.
Wow. That's fantastic. Yeah. I really now you've convinced me. I I'm I'm gonna have to do that because I get so excited when I see the people.
You know, they're all happy coming to the cruise ship. They are all happy. And while
we're And then exhausted getting off.
Yes. Yes.
So I think you'd be okay with the cocktail aspect of it. Like, there's enough yeah. So, like, the only rowdy place really on the boat Yeah. I guess the club, but that's really late. I wouldn't expect that.
And I'm not gonna be out there.
Not gonna be there.
So yeah.
Right? And then the pool, but there's so much nonsense going on at the pool that you're not the attraction in that case. Yes. So people are are are seeing other there's so much other there's always Other stuff. Great people watching.
There's always some random doing something ridiculous that you're just
No. Yeah. So that sounds fun. I'm gonna have to do it. Now
And they're relatively inexpensive.
(01:04):
Yeah. I've often thought that would be such a fun you know, got different groups of, you know, little girls groups that we travel with and go different places. And I've often thought that would be super fun, you know, just put a little group together. It would be a great, yeah. That would just be a great time.
So now you have convinced me, and I after we wrap up today's recording, I am going to go check out the website.
Check that one off the box. Here we
go. Yeah.
So in interviewing people, like, I don't like to know the questions beforehand.
Mhmm.
Kinda like a first coffee, even if I know the person. Right? I mean, there are some touch points that I wanna go there, and a lot of people are like, well, how do you get people comfortable in that situation? I think it's like figuring out something and, like, humanize them. And and Absolutely.
I mean, what's the first thing we talked about? You know, traffic. It was like, okay. Like, they're comfortable now. So now you're probably gonna be comfortable the rest of the time.
Exactly right.
And it's like, I guess I just realized that over time. Was there a trick that you learned back in the day to get people to feel comfortable, when you were interviewing them?
You know, you've hit you've hit the nail on my head there, Zach, because to me, it was about being that present moment with the person. So I I am the same. I am the same. I used to drive me crazy when people say, can you send me a list of questions? And I'm like, well, you know, I can tell you broadly the category.
Like, I like your questionnaire. You know? It's like, here are the broad things you want people to know or take away or whatever. And I like that because why would I get I mean, that that stunts spontaneous conversation. And so, you know, usually, we will I will ask somebody, you know, what what was happening before you got on this call?
You know, just so that we can kind of talk about that, and that's a good doorway. People I've known for a long time, and this was the great delight of doing that show for twenty five years is, I had people, guests, and and, what have you that I had known and had on over time for twenty five years. So, you know, our children were relatively the same age, so we could talk about that. And that to me is was delightful that, you know, even the even the most famous or powerful kind of person still has some of the same, you know, struggles or experiences that I do. And so I think connecting over shared experience is is a great way to make people feel comfortable.
Oh, we share that. Okay. Well, now we can have a conversation. Yeah.
Yeah. And it's like, don't you want the person asking the questions to be listening to you? And then if there's more feedback that needs to be from that, and say, like, here's the five questions that I'm gonna ask you. It's like, no. No.
No. You just said this one thing. So I do this all the time. If someone opens up something ridiculous on here, like, I'm not gonna skirt past that. I'm gonna I'm gonna be like, oh, well, tell me a little bit more about what you just said because
Yeah.
I think it's important. And it's like, if you're not listening as the interviewer
Yes.
You're I feel like you're doing your audience a disservice.
Yeah. No. I I just I was thinking back. And the other thing it can do for you is it can really bridge a gap because I was thinking back to this interview I did. This was a thousand years ago, with a a delegate in the general assembly, and he was not from this area.
(01:25):
So I I met him one time in person. And he was very conservative, and he was kind of leading the charge on some of the very conservative social women's reproductive health issues, and so, you know, kind of a polarizing figure. And I read somewhere that he carries a camera with him and takes pictures. When people come to his office, he takes pictures of them visiting the office. And I just thought that was kind of interesting.
And so I said to him, you know, don't get what? I'm just curious. I read this about you. Why do you do that? And, wow.
He said, I'll tell you why I do it. He said, I had a son and we had, you know, amazing experiences together and he was killed in a car crash when he was 17. And it it struck me that these moments have meaning for people, that they are moments they can look back on whether their children are still here or not. You know, it is an important moment when you come to see the seat of power, and I wanted to give them something that they could remember that by, and I wanted to recognize the importance of that as a shared family experience because in my life, I had a limited number of them. I just thought, wow.
I mean, that's an answer. Right? I mean, and it was so authentic. Got me a little choked up. But but, yeah, I mean, was so authentic.
And what I loved about that is, you know, there's a guy I'm sure I'm sure there are people who heard his positions on these social issues and were probably really opposed or may have been looking for an excuse to kind of tune him out because that's how it is now. Right? You know, we don't I don't agree with you and therefore I shut you down. But to me, that idea of being able to connect, and I had several people say that afterwards, is that they really felt a sense of connection to him. And it it I think those kinds of moments keep us from jumping into immediately the polarization that seems to be, you know, so prevalent.
It has been for some time. But to see people as human, I mean, I'll never forget that. I'll and I never looked at that guy the same again because I had him in my head. Oh, yes. Of course.
That's delegate Umteprits who has this position on this issue, and he's, you know, from this county or whatever it was. And you can't look at people the same way after you plumb down and get that shared experience. It's very human. It had nothing to do with politics.
Yeah. That's gosh. It's it's things like that that really I don't know. It makes me want to come back.
Yes. And to your point about if you have the list of questions, then, you know, other people might have just gone, okay. Thank you for that. Let's go to question number six.
Well Right.
I I don't remember anything about whatever else he said in that interview. It's probably bad on me, but I really don't. I remember that moment, and that probably happened twenty years ago, and it's still, you know, it's still with me.
Yeah. And and we talked a little bit about time before we went live. And and, like, the last thing I wanna do is someone preparing answers for five, ten questions, and then they get upset because we didn't get to those questions because the conversation took us in a different direction. And to me, yeah, I I would much rather the conversation go in a fun way. Yes.
Whoever's whoever's listening while we're having the conversation, that's great. But I really enjoy the conversations and getting to know people for who they are.
And can I just say that your questionnaire was great? Because what it gave me the opportunity to do and probably was wise, anxious for ten days, but what it gave me the opportunity to do was reflect on my own kind of business and where I am now, and and it helped me realize some things that I hadn't quite put together about the work that I'm pursuing and, you know, what I'm saying no to and all the fact that I am saying no, you know, that that they were great questions. And so I wanted to thank you for that because, honestly, I felt like I got a little strategic planning exercise out of that. So I really appreciated it. They were great.
You're welcome. We'll send you an invoice.
Exactly. Yes.
Okay. So other than this show, what what what what makes you nervous?
What makes me nervous? Okay. Cooking for other people. Like, I was just talking to somebody about this this morning. Entertaining.
I love to entertain. I my goal in life is to be an effortless and, you know, gracious kind of entertainer, and we were fortunate to have dinner in someone's our friend friends of ours home last night. It was the most lovely, simple, gracious, thoroughly authentic connected experience that you would want to have. And that and I that is one of my life goals is to try to achieve that level of comfort with entertaining in my home because I love conversation. I love to have people in.
But if you have people in for dinner, you have to feed them. And so I'm trying to get really comfortable with them. Like, I can cook. Not the greatest cook in America, but I I mean, I can get it done. But for the thought of cooking right.
Yes. The thought of cooking for other people and making it all come out on time. Yeah. I'm I'm working on that. So, yeah, so for for my husband's birthday this year, we, we did an afternoon tea and just had a couple of folks over.
(01:46):
So that was sort of my, you know, tea. It's tea. It's little sandwiches that you make in advance. It's little things. You know?
So this was part of my what do they call that? Exposure therapy. You know? Let's jump into it a little bit at a time. You know?
You're afraid of snakes. You go pet the little garter steak. That was that was kinda what that was. And, we had a wonderful time, so I will build on that. But, yeah, that scares me.
And I mean yeah. And and it's sad because I love talking to people. I love having salon style, you know, conversations. And so I've gotta get over it because it's a barrier. So I'm I'm working on
What I would say to that is be careful what you wish for. So, like, this past year, my father-in-law forever has made Thanksgiving dinner. I he's getting a little older, and I was like, well, let you know what? I cook a lot. Let me throw my name in the hat.
Okay.
So they so they let me do it. I really, like, tried making, like, the greatest dinner of all time.
Yes.
So it's now come to my attention that now that is now my job. So, like, be careful what you wish for.
So you do Especially when you do a good job. Yeah.
I do a damn good job. Like, I hate turkey. That turkey was damn good. I brined it, spatchcocked it.
Did you cook it the day before? Because I I did that, and I liked that cooking it the day before.
I did not. I did not, but I did the 24 brine, which was quite interesting. I guess that gives it an interestingness.
Mhmm. Yes.
So Yeah.
Who cooks your dinner, Tim? Like, for Thanksgiving?
For the the day to day?
No. Like, the Thanksgiving dinner. Do you do
Oh, I I usually do the turkey on the grill on the rotisserie or the Traeger to that that's my thing.
The Traeger's a smoker, or is it a grill?
Smoker. Yeah. A smoker. But before the Traeger, I would do it on the grill on the rotisserie.
(02:07):
That sounds
And do you do all the sides? Or because, see, I think one of the genius hacks is to have everybody else do the sides. Like, my cousin makes some great candied yams, which I hate yams, but she makes that, and everybody loves it. And so that's that's a genius hack right
there.
Everybody with some good. Yams. I know. I know. And I love potatoes.
I don't know. I can't stand the texture, and it's too sweet. And so I I just have, like I I have almost a you just like a visceral, very I have a violent dislike of yams. So Yeah. There it it can be said, yes.
I have a violent dislike of yams.
I mean, coming from a Marshall girl, I can understand that.
That's right. That's right.
I was waiting for, some sort of comment like that too Yeah. To surface.
Come on. You this is just real. Yeah. How did you guys officially meet for the first time?
It was at Civic. So that was that was, like, the, like, the the in between period, some transition, and and Kathy came in to to finish our class.
That's right. Yes. I yes. That's exactly right. I was trying to remember when you were, and I did I did probably 20 classes altogether.
So it's hard to remember who was, you know, in each class, but that's exactly right. So I came in for, like, six months just between between leadership to Yep. Yeah. And and it was great because I knew how to do the job. So it was the easiest job I ever said yes to.
And I loved it. It was great to be kinda kinda back. What I what I appreciated is that all the planning has been done.
I'm sorry? What did you start Civic? Was that something
So I was I did not start it, but it started in 1996 by a woman called Kay Kemper, who's amazing. She worked at ODU. And they kind of tinkered around with it until 1998. And that what I did in '98 was I was asked to come in and facilitate program days, which I love. So I did not run the organization.
Then Kay, who was enormously talented, decided to open her own government relations firm called Kemper Consulting, smartest thing she ever did. It was fabulously successful. But that was in 02/2001. And so in, I guess, April or February, I got a call from the late marvelous philanthropist, my surrogate dad, Josh Darden, and and he asked me he said he called me I never forget this. He called me in the office one day, and he said, now I'm gonna need you to run Civic.
And I said as and that he had this just charming southern accent, and I said, what? I said, mister Darden, I I appreciate your confidence. You don't I've I've done no and I didn't. I had no experience to be qualified to do that. None.
And he said, well, I think you can do it, and I'm gonna be here to help you. And I, you know, I thought, okay. And then I learned what everybody else already knew, which is you just really don't say no to him. So I said yes, and so now get the get the timing of this. That was so I started on February, and you know what happened on September 11.
So that was our first opening retreat, which is for the listeners who may not know, this is like a two day big intensive. We bring everybody together to meet each other, and they're gonna spend the next nine months, one day a month together, learning about the region and the challenges and opportunities and and the like. So yeah. So September 11, we were leaving on a Thursday for our retreat. September 11 was on a Tuesday.
And so that was well, you you live and you learn. And so I will forever sing their praises. The Williamsburg Lodge was where we were going to have it, and they just said, don't worry about it. We'll reschedule it. Because that was my nightmare.
(02:28):
Oh, great. My first event, and I'm inside the cancellation time, and they're gonna charge me this, you know, all but everybody was being very understanding about it at that point. But so that's how so I had the first so that's when I came into it fully in terms of running it, was 02/2001, and I did that till 2019. 2019.
Wow. And now such a great program.
Thank you. Privilege of a lifetime to work with Josh Darden. I learned so much from that man. I learned so much.
From a region standpoint, I yeah. Everyone thinks that they have an idea and understanding of the region, but when you go through something like Civic, I quickly realized how much I did not know about the region.
Really? Good. I'm glad. Yeah. Yeah.
That's that's that's great. The other thing I think we try to do I still say we, but we try to do in Civic is we really work hard to look. When you have leaders who are at the level of the folks that are in Civic, which is senior level leadership, these are either, you know, founders or they could be, executives. I mean, these are people who are at the the height of their careers, typically. And so when you get those folks in a room, as you know, that experience is pretty rarefied and you sometimes, understandably, kind of can forget what life is like for the people at every stage of the work ladder.
And so one of the things I felt really proud of is that we really made a point of exposing these executives to what life is like for the people who work for them and for people who work for their organizations. And so one of my one of my favorite memories of that whole time was, there's a guy who still runs Westminster Canterbury, he's an amazing leader named Ben Uncle. And Ben went through the program and we did this simulation of a day in the life of the working poor. So this is not people in poverty, these people have jobs. And it's a simulation, it's about a three hour simulation, where you you set people up with, like, an alias or, you know, an assumed identity, and you give them a family structure and you give them, this is your job and these are your hours and and that sort of thing.
So we set them up with that, and he went through this experience. Then through the three hours, you throw things at these people like, you know, oh, guess what? Your rent just went up 15%, and in your little play money bucket, you only have this much money. He was so moved by that that he went back to the board at Westminster Canterbury and said, we have an obligation to the people who work here to pay them a living wage. And so I've forgotten what the calculation of the living wage was at that point.
But he challenged the board and said, We really need to be paying these people a living wage. And to their credit, they said, Yes. And he said it was a really transformative experience. So I really feel very proud and happy and satisfied about the fact that this wasn't you know, we we tried to present people with opportunities to say, look. If you had to get here today by a bus, how would you do it?
You know? Because I couldn't would die. I don't know. Most people at that point. This was before the apps, you know.
So, well, here's the map, and we just hand out the map and say, okay. Well, what's it gonna cost? What buses are you gonna take? What time are you gonna leave? And what time are gonna arrive?
Right. When people realize, holy smokes, we cannot get around this region by bus. Well, I shouldn't say that. Not everyone can get around the region by bus. That is a profound awareness.
So to connect people with skills and talent and expertise to community problems
Well, the beauty taking that one step further, the thing that's so great is it's a bunch it's it's all business leaders that are decision makers that those connections are made instantly, and they can make those decisions almost on the spot to to impact change. Yes.
Yes. There's so much that got done because somebody knew somebody and somebody picked up the phone and said, hey. You know, this is a problem. Can we work this out? And and it happens.
I mean, I that that will forever be just work I feel really good about and so happy about and yeah.
Best class ever?
Can't say that. I'm I you will not back me into that corner.
I mean, I tried.
But nice try. Nice try.
And Is there a class that you remember as being, like, a little Let's see.
(02:49):
I I guessed, but I can't. But I yeah. Well, I can't say that. I can't say that. But the current president, Mary Kate Andrews, is doing a great job.
She is a civic alum. So that was the other point that we wanted to get to. Not that you had to be a civic alum to run civic, but what a great thing to me that the program has grown and the program is producing people who want to lead it. So that's a very happy thing too.
What what did you what did you study in college at Marshall? Broadcast journalism.
Broadcast journalism.
What are your thoughts on college these days, 2025? What's the those thoughts?
You know, that is a great that's a great question. You know, I I think, and I'm very privileged to do some work for Old Dominion, which I love and adore because it's giving great opportunities for first generation students. And, I mean, I guess it's a great place. But I think what I'm starting to see and what I think smart college presidents are recognizing is that and Brian O. Hemphill, the president of Old Menu, is a smart college president.
And he talked about this last year that that colleges are gonna have to start thinking about certifications and workplace knowledge and starting to integrate that into the college experience, which I think is very smart. Yep. And so his thinking is, you know, you really he wants to get to a place where everybody graduates with their degree, but with some sort of, you know, certificate that says, hey. I know how to do this. I I can do this.
And he's he's and I think a lot of colleges are moving that direction, which I think is very smart. You know, I'll be honest with you. It is it is very expensive, obviously. If you put children through, you know you you know that. I I think it's I think college is a great thing.
I think if you don't know what you want I was fortunate. I always knew what I wanted to do. But you don't know what you wanna do. If you don't know yet what you wanna do, I think it's a great idea to get a skill or to go to two years of technical two years of community college. If you're stepping into the four year environment, I know people will probably disagree with that, but I think it is such an expensive venture now that you really ought to kinda have a narrowed down idea of what you wanna do.
It's a very expensive place to figure that out. And so, you know, that's that's my job.
I do think that there a recalibration of sorts needs to certainly happen. Job market is changing really, really fast.
Yes. Yeah. It's I love
this certificate idea. I think that's it's smart. Like, I have a broadcast news degree as well. You do. I
like doing that.
Yeah. So I loved my time in Morgantown. Yeah. I would not say anything bad about Morgantown. However, you know, there's that caveat.
It's like, I learned more in my first week at a TV station than I did my entire time in school. Yes. And Appreciate that. It it makes me really like, I look at that and I go, okay. So that's a $100,000 decision that I could have figured out in a week by just calling someone and saying, hey.
Can I get this kick?
Yeah.
You know?
Now I'll give you a counter perspective on that. Just not a counter but a complimentary perspective. What I learned in college yes. I agree with you totally. You work in a newsroom, man.
You're learn that stuff, or you're not gonna make it. Deadlines. What right? Deadlines. And that has influenced I don't know about you, Zach, but that's influenced my whole life.
(03:10):
Back timing a show. Okay. We gotta start at six. We're gonna finish at 06:30. That's a deadline.
You have to finish at 06:30. That's been really helpful to me. But what I learned in college was ethics. What I learned in college was law around, you know, journalism. And and all
I might have learned that. I might have taken the class, but I'll remember.
Well, you know, it had those both having
gone to
college in West Virginia, you will know that. Yeah. So I didn't I took comparative religion. I went to Marshall. Yes.
And I I had took a comparative religion class, and that was the one I decided I was gonna skate on a little bit because I was doing other things. And so I show up in class having not been there for a little bit of time, and it's the day somebody does a report on snake handling as a religion and had snakes there, and I'm like, this is why I don't come to this class, honestly. Yeah. So gotta be careful about that not showing up thing. But the whole thing I learned in college about journalism, which has served me to this day, is, you know, law, ethics, and the opportunity to sit back and have conversations about that.
And I do think so much of that is missing in our current environment. I mean, you know, I I and, Zach, I don't know if you would agree with this, but what we have today in TV news, and would that have been something that your professors at Morgantown would have been happy with?
No. I mean, I think from the like, I think of, like, sources. Right? Like, you'd Yeah. There's two sides to every story, and then maybe the truth, right, in the middle.
But you're trying to get both both of those sides. I don't feel like in journalism, we see a lot of that. I feel like it's more just like entertainment at this point. Mhmm. And I feel like we really should treat it like that and say it's just another channel on the TV dial, and that's definitely not what I learned.
I mean, the last I I don't read a lot of things in the paper and things like that. But I remember, like, the last time I really saw, like, a really well journalistic post was when they did the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel, like, really long piece by the pilot, and it was it was, like, ten, fifteen, 20 pages, and it was really thorough about the whole piece. I was like, okay. Like, that's like, it was like a documentary in written form. I was like, okay.
Like, that really gets the whole gambit of what it is. We don't see that. We're just trying to get first to go. And I I think about the Ryan Lock, the Olympics when it was clearly a lie. There was no fact checking in that.
And I'm like, if we couldn't even get that right, what makes it which is something so, like, trivial. What makes us think that we're gonna get real serious things correct when we're just trying to be the first on air and that's all that matters because you want those eyeballs? Like, that's Right. Yes. That's not the way I was taught.
That's not the way I really look at it. It's like, you wanna make sure this is thorough and as correct as possible.
And then going back to Kathy's point in terms of timelines, yeah, you can't have a long form conversation, then you'd you'd narrow it down to a seven second snippet because you have to meet the timeline.
Yes. It's very hard. It's very and I'll tell you, you know, I I feel like now I'm starting to sound like, get off my lawn. But but But there is this, you know, there was a certain wisdom to back in the day, your news came on at national news came on at 06:30. Now people listening to this are gonna be like, were you born when after the weekend assassination?
But it came on at 06:30. It was off by seven. So and there was none of this live stuff unless something really dreadful happened.
And you only had three choices?
Yes. So everything that happened was in that thirty minutes, and it forced them to make decisions about what's most important. You know? And and I was I was saying now, we have thirty minutes of news crammed into twenty four hours. Like, that's you know?
So that's part of the reason why you get all of this this stuff that's either not really news or just, like, live speculation. That's all it well, it could be this or it could be this. Tell you what, go figure out what it is and come back to me when you when you figure that's that's what I wanna say every time I see that. You know, what we don't know, we're live. It could be this.
It could
(03:31):
be that. Tim did this thing. He I think he probably did this on the show, but, like, he he brought this to my attention. It's basically, like, the word should or could in a headline is really, like, you're sitting there like, okay. Well, there's there's nothing to that.
That is such a great point. I'd never thought about that.
Yeah. So when I say that now, like
great point.
Yeah.
It's not a
factual statement. I I will typically not read anything if it's could, should, might, may, possibly. I mean, it's just like, this is all speculation. You know? So Yeah.
There's
And that is that is great advice, Tim, because, really, you know, that that would simplify all of our lives. I don't know about you guys, but I I do feel overwhelmed with, you know, the amount of information that's coming at you and trying to figure out what you're looking at and what you're not. And and my media habits have changed without question. My media habits, you know, have changed. So that's a very helpful thing.
I'm gonna I'm gonna be on the lookout for that. Thank you.
Yeah. I'm sure I'm sure that you've seen a lot of change. I don't think that journalists are produced the same way as they once were.
No. And part of it is, you know, when you had and I started when we saw the thirty minute newscast, but then very shortly after I started, we started getting a new newscast. You know? So you and, well, obviously, you had an eleven. I should have said that.
But but then they started getting the noons and then the fives, and then we're just on all the time. But yeah. But I think what was helpful about that is that it gave you time to go out and figure out what the truth was or to track down sources or whatever. I don't know how we expect these to, like when they when they go to these people live, I don't know how you expect them to do their job because all they're doing because you keep going back to them live, they don't have time to go check out and see what's really going on. So I think it's a really unfortunate moment.
There's some things that really good about it, but there's a lot that's very unfortunate. And then I think the not the manipulation. Okay. Well, maybe the manipulation of okay. Maybe.
You know, the concentration of ownership is a problem. And then the other thing is the all of these consultants, you know, that come in, and I know in this market, I'm not gonna say which station it was. I was told that in a station in this market, there was a sign on everybody's desks that said, does it matter to an 18 to 35 year old? And I just thought, wow. I mean, I think 18 35 year olds are very important.
Having said that, since I am not 18 to 35, you know, I would like to think that somebody thinks what's important to my age range might be important too. So, anyway, that it
Is that Is that the demo is important in that case? Yeah.
They're they're going to that demographic, and that and I understand that as a business imperative. I completely get that. But, you know, the eighteen to thirty I gave an example. 18 35, you know, we've got this bill that's just, I guess, making its way through the house that's gonna, you know, have some significant Medicaid cuts in it. I think that's an amazing story and a very troubling story because that eighteen to thirty five year old may not care about that much right now.
That eighteen to thirty five year old, when they get to be 40, 45, 50, and they have to keep their parents in their home because the Medicaid funds that would have facilitated them being able to have their loved ones in some sort of facility that matched their need for care are not going to be there, or won't be there in the abundance that it is right now, which is not abundant, but it is what it is, that's going be a story that matters. And so I think that's an interesting way to look at the stories, at these stories. You know, how does it hit you depending on on which generation you're in? I think that's fascinating. This aging thing is gonna be huge.
I I yeah. That's gonna be huge.
When I worked in TV, I think probably the last straw for me when I wanted to get out was Yeah. Worked at a a TV station locally, and, there was no, like, hard hitting 11:00 news. And they had this thing called the breaking news bell that that would ring, basically hoping that something would would hit. And I'm like, okay. So you're hoping that, like Mhmm.
(03:52):
Like, there's this saying, like, if it bleeds, it leads. Like, if someone gets murdered, that's okay. I'm like, that should not be what we're wishing. It's, like, it's just terrible. And, that's why I was like, yeah.
I can't do this anymore. Like
Yeah. Yeah. I I had an experience. That was my that was kind of a similar experience in terms of the breaking point was, and I want to be careful I tell this story, but there was a family that kind of rolled through Virginia Beach, there was much adulation about them because they were adopting all of these special needs children, and it looked on the surface like a really good story. Turned out, they were abusing these children.
And the one and and it's a terrible, sad, gross story, but the little boy died. One of the little boys that had been hospitalized died. And I was the new anchor at that point, and so we, you know, said the little boy had died and that was sad. And we came back to the newsroom afterwards. The then news director said, Now, here's what I want us to do.
I want us to go out and find the other 11 children and find out how they feel about their brother's death. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, you're talking about the 11 minor children. Am I getting that? You know, this is what I'm thinking to myself. And to their credit, several people in the newsroom said, you know what?
That's not how that may be how you do it in New York. That's not how we do it here. That's just we're not that's not a good idea. And these children were all in foster care. Like, how do you think they would it's it's gross.
Like, can't even It's so gross. It was disgusting. So I went to him privately afterwards and I said, look, I I'm very troubled by that and I I need you to know this was not something I'm gonna be able to do. And he said, well, then you don't have any right to call yourself a reporter. And I thought, I guess that's right.
You know, I mean, I guess that's true. I think in every career there may come a moment where you have been aligned and it's a fit, and then you're not a fit anymore. And so that was the moment I said, okay. Yep. I think you're right.
I think I think this I think this is not right for me. That is exactly right because I cannot do that. So I've made a very graceful exit, and that that was it. But I think if we're honest, we you know, wherever you are in your career, you may have had one of those experiences that is, you know, a sentinel moment or a moment where you think, uh-huh. Yeah.
I think think this is our paths have diverged. Yeah. So that was a gross day. I mean, I I still, to this day, think about it and think that's disgusting. And, you know, so these things happen.
Well, you have had a very storied career doing what you're doing. Like, what what how did you start? Like like, day one, how did you start in terms of was there a strategy to that, and how did you stay current, and how do you continue to stay current for so long? So
I when I I as I said a moment ago, I felt very fortunate to know what I wanted to do. So when I went to Marshall University, University, I knew what I wanted to do. And I worked the great Boz Johnson, who was a local legendary anchor, who was recruited to NBC News and just had five children in Huntington, West Virginia, he decided he was going stay there and devote himself to that place. I had tremendous respect for him. He was a real ethical leader for me and a real North Star.
And so when I was rolling through school, you know, and between my junior and senior year, I would somehow, I worked out enough credits that I got it done in three years. But between my junior and senior year, I got an internship at the local television station. And I know, Zach, you know this. When you work in Huntington or Morgantown or any of these small markets, you get to do everything. I was 19 years old producing an 11:00 newscast, which was a really dumb decision on their part, truly.
I mean, very dumb. But, you know, I I mean, I was doing it, and I had a train wreck one night, back in the day. You know, you'd had the everything was on these carts, and they had to be in order. And I don't know what happened, but it just hit a thing where the order wasn't going, and so nothing was hitting. And I was 19 years old, and I was devastated, and I knew that this was gonna be the end of my career.
And the director he's always everybody smoked then. So director kicked back in his chair, put his feet up on the switcher, pulled his cigarette pack out, starts puffing, and says, little lady, you're gonna get this, but we're just gonna put up trouble slide until you do. So he put up one of those technical difficulty slides, took me about three minutes to get my mess together, and then then we proceeded. And I I've always often thought about that because I was like, he knew it wasn't the end of the world. To me, it felt like the end of the world.
I was gonna lose my job, but it wasn't. You know, we figured it out and came back, and the world continued to turn, and everything was fine. So then I worked in Huntington for a couple of years, and then I if you've worked in Huntington for a couple of years, you're probably ready for something else. And I was felt very ready for something else. So I back in the day, we had this thing called broadcasting magazine, which was where you found out about jobs.
There was a section in the back. Zach, you're much younger than I am. I don't know if this was the case when you were in this business or not, but there's a section in the back that says television stations seeking reporters, whatever it is. And it said East Coast television station seeks general assignment reporter. And I thought, by this point, I didn't care where it was on the East Coast.
I did not care. I applied for it. And and then they, you know, they brought me out for an interview, and I got the job. Yay. But I honestly, I did not know where it was.
I did and then I had to do some research, you know, just to figure out where is Norfolk. I don't know where that is, and I don't care because I'm going there. And so I put all of my stuff in a U Haul, and friend of mine and I drove it over the mountains. And and and I, you know, and then I started here, and I really thought I was gonna be here for a minute and then go be a London correspondent in a trench coat, very attractive, and working for the network. You know, and then I just I don't know.
I got here. I fell in love with this community, you know, then, you know, met my husband and had my daughter. And so, you know, then you blink your eyes, and it's forty five years, and you're like, ah. Yeah. So but he has been the happiest.
This is all I ever wanted to do was to come to a place and hope to make a difference and live in a great community and contribute to a great community. That's that's really all I ever wanted to do. I grew up in the service, moved around a lot. So, you know, that deep root thing is not really a part of my life, and I I always wanted that. And and so and I feel so fortunate and so happy to have found it here with, you know, great folks like you.
(04:13):
I so love what you're doing in this entrepreneurial space and and supporting that sector of the community. So for me, it's like it's been a great run. And and but I'm still excited to see what comes tomorrow. Right? I mean, I'm still excited to see what comes tomorrow.
Well, thank you for those kind words.
Yeah. No. I real I really mean it. And the other thing, I think, Zach, maybe you said this to me or you were speaking at one of the hatch things or something, and you said something that really kinda struck me and made me take a look at things. You were talking about the entrepreneurial spirit, and you were kind of describing character traits of an entrepreneur.
And I thought I really thought of myself at that point as I I think that's me. I think I'm an entrepreneur. I think I am. And then when you said that, the more I thought about it, the more I really looked at it, I thought, I don't think I'm an entrepreneur in this way that you're thinking about it because I had to be honest and say, don't have the risk tolerance, you know, that entrepreneurs have and I have so much respect for that that moment where you can just say, yeah, I'm gonna put it all on the line. That is a brave and courageous thing to do.
And, yeah, I very much respect and admire that. And the idea that you sometimes will temporarily fail and you get up and you dust yourself off and you get back to it, that's another thing I respect and admire. And and so, yeah, that was very helpful to me.
Yeah. I think you only really fail when you quit. Everything else is just a learning experience and and being able to move on from it. And so one of my favorite quotes is by the former Duke basketball coach, Mike. Don't ask me to spell it.
Please probably not even ask me to say that last name again. Coach k. Coach k. It's next play. It's basically like, okay.
Like, you had a bad play. Move on. And just immediately
that.
Immediately next play. Like, move on. Yeah. Don't make that same mistake again.
Next play. But that's great.
Yeah. And so Yeah. I heard that maybe five, ten years ago, I'm like, okay. Like, that that makes a lot of sense because we dwell on these things. And it's like you wanna learn from it, but don't don't don't be on it for so long.
So we live in an interesting region. I think there is often lots of positivity, often lots of negativity. From a business perspective, is there one thing that you think really needs to change that would really take us to that next step?
That's a great question. Let
me let me bait it a little differently.
Okay.
I think forever, people have said that the infighting or the lack of regionalism is the reason why this region hasn't done that thing. I personally think that's BS. I think that's just a cop out. Right? I think it's a scapegoat.
Right? So most of the time, that's what people are going to say. Knowing that, is there something that you've seen in your in your many years with businesses that seems like, okay. This is really just that that that catalyst that needs to happen to get there.
So this this is not going to move the fate of Western civilization. But and I tend to agree with you about that whole business of we we need to be you know, we need to codify it, be one region. Yeah. And go back in time, maybe we should've done that. Would've could've should've.
But but we are where we are. And so I I appreciate all these moments where cities are starting to work together in spite of it all, and businesses are starting to work together in spite of it all. I think that's fantastic. The one thing I think we're we could we could do better with, and I I just felt this way for a little while now, we have so many young people who've grown up in this region who know what a great place it is to live and work. They leave here and they go to Richmond, they go to Washington, they go to New York, they go to Raleigh.
I mean, you know, they've built other places, obviously, but those are kind of the main places that they go. And and and so they they go for, you know, five, eight years, whatever it is, they do their thing. I wish we could get more of those young people back here, and I'll tell you why. I think it's really I heard somebody from Brookings say this once, and I thought it made abundant sense. We are not going to be able to go out and say to a young person, you know, coming out of college or technical school has great experience.
(04:34):
Come here. You don't know anything about this region, but come here. Trust us. It's great. But we do have people who've grown up here who would love to come back here if the jobs were here, if the things that they care about were here, that kind of thing.
And so I I think it you know, and this is easier said than done, but I think we could really use some sort of a concerted campaign to target, especially after COVID, by the way, when we discovered we could remote work and many of us are still doing that, a concerted campaign to lure back some of these young people who have left for better jobs, more money, but are now at the point in their lives where they're saying, you know, Washington, New York, it's tough city to live in. It's a tough city to raise a family in. You can't Mhmm. You know, you can't necessarily buy a house in Washington DC to grow your family. If that's what you're thinking, then this is a great place to do it.
But you have to have the job and you have to have kind of the social supports to do that. So I remember I was riding on the Washington Metro and there was a poster up there about come to Virginia Beach and I thought, wouldn't it be interesting if we had some sort of campaign that was targeted to young professionals that said, Come home. Come home and let it If you've been gone for ten years, there's a lot going on here that wasn't going on here maybe when you left. And, oh, by the way, everybody goes. Everybody goes and tries something else because they think, you know, that's going to be the grass is greener thing.
You know, people are in different phases and stages of their lives, and I know so many people who have done that successfully and happily. You know, if you grew up here, you've got family here, and you know it's a great place to live near the beach and all the rest of it, I I feel like we should leverage that a little bit more and do really targeted efforts to get some of these young people back. The jobs have to be here, admittedly. That's just a thought.
Yeah. Nova life is a
I can see your brain's turning.
Well, no. I'm just thinking. Nova is such a tie tough life to live. I so my daughter just graduated from JMU. She's working up there right now.
You know? So she commutes an hour to get to the closest metro, and then it's another hour metro into to work. Yeah. And that's before your shift even starts. It's a tough Four
hours of daily travel?
Yeah. It's
tough. Yes. It DC is a very tough my daughter lives in DC too, and and it's a very tough city, and it it it's very tough. I mean, you know, it's it's it's lovely, but it's rigorous. You know?
Yeah. And I just think that, yep, to your point, especially, like, with with h q two, with Amazon up there, people are gonna get tired of that. And it's just like, hey. When you get tired of it and you wanna start a business or if, know, look down here and, you know, we could attract a lot of people when they're when they've had enough of the the metro life.
And that's the point where we need to be hitting them. That's the point where they realize, oh, I'd like to, you know I found somebody. I wanna start a family. Oh, I need to buy a bigger house, but I can't afford you know, my daughter was telling me there's no way she works in nonprofits. She said, there's no way I can afford a bigger place than what I have right now in Washington DC.
There's no way. So I'm gonna have to think about, you know, something different. So right now, she is splitting her time because she's she can work remotely. She's a knowledge management for a nonprofit company in DC, which and, you know, there's been so much turbulence in that space since January. But, you know, she's trying to make that happen.
So she she's here a couple couple days a week. She goes up to DC, like, now two days a week, every other week, and it's working out. And it's working out. And so you know?
I tell you I I
would never move back there. That's where I grew up. I would never move back.
Really? You wouldn't. Yeah.
No. Absolutely not. They have trails, which are nice. We don't really have
those I will say shout out to the Newport News, new Amtrak station there. Taking the train up there is so pleasant. It is fabulous.
Do is they have a new train station there in New Britain? I gotta go check that out. Because I love living down here by our train station, except they totally it's irritating me what they've done with the parking at the the downtown.
(04:55):
Yeah. There's it's a brand new train station, tons of parking. It is it's it's great.
Yeah. And see, we have three trains a day that I could pick up my camera right here and show you where they leave from because they're right over there. But, you know, we have three trains a day going up there, and that makes that completely feasible. So to be making a DC salary but living here is a kind of a could be a kind of a good thing, which is what people know, particularly those who can remote work, that that's that's the possibility. She's very present in their office when they need her to be there.
The rest of the time, she's down here having a great time. So
You I mean, you could be not only a traffic reporter. You could be a trained reporter too.
You know, this is true. I I do feel fourth act calling my name. Yes. Transpo with Kathy. Yeah.
Right. I like that.
Yeah. It just dawned on me, like like, as we round out this show, but, like, I tell everyone. I'm like, Hampton Roads is the biggest small town that you'll ever live in. You can get a meeting with anybody. True.
If you like, you're super close to decision makers, but thinking that through just a little bit further just now, it's like, I guess the only downfall of that is that we move at the speed of a small town too. So is this
Yes. Yes.
But And then you're looking for that small town feel, I mean, Hampton Roads, I mean, we have that. I mean, everyone knows everyone. It's it's amazing to me how tight the circles are amongst folks.
And have you run into the to the what I think is so interesting too is how a lot of people are related to other people. Like, you know, you'll you'll peel back the onion. Oh, wait a minute. You're second cousins of that one who married that It's stunning to me. Yeah.
It it really is. It really is. No question.
Well, it's
I think that's what I think that would be fun is to do a very targeted and I've been trying to talk everybody into that, but I know they're trying to do kind of an attraction survey for the region. But I think it has to be a very targeted thing to professionals who grew up here, who are living in Washington and New York, and are hitting that age, maybe early mid late thirties where they're thinking, maybe this is not maybe this is not for me. Maybe I've done my DC adventure, and it's time to go home.
I think it's easy. Even if you just do the traffic aspect of that. You know, people really complain about traffic here, and it's like, okay. Well, four hours of travel time for Tim's daughter just to go to work every single day. And here, you're in what is it?
Forty five, twenty two minutes, I think, is the average time here or something like that, like, each way? Yeah. So, I mean, like, just looking at that number.
Oh, unbelievable. Unbelievable. And just just the basic things like going to a department store or going to my daughter, where she said it takes her she's she's about miles from the the what do you call it? Trader Joe's, the Whole Foods or whatever. And it takes sometimes an hour to get there, you know, because of traffic.
And so She lives in DC proper?
Yeah. Mhmm. She yeah. And she said she loves it. She she loves living in the city, but she's really it's dawning on her that she will never know, she in a non she just can't afford more than she's got right now.
And it's a very hard you know, she said, I'm getting tired of taking an hour to go to the Trader Joe's. You know? And so she drives down to the Paris Teter. She's like, you have no idea how wonderful this is. Go there.
Got the thing. Back. No worries. Yeah. So all of those things become more attractive the long you know, the longer you're in a place and the tougher it gets to live
(05:16):
there. Mention just the housing prices. Like, my mom lives ninety minutes. She lives kinda close to where your daughter lives then. Yeah.
And it's ninety minutes basically from DC by by car. Let's just say no. It's not that far, but it could be ninety minutes. Right? I mean, the amount that her she lives in a townhouse.
K.
The amount that that those are going for in her neighborhood now is just astronomical. Like, she's like, yeah. The comps are, like, $800. I'm like, you're not close.
Yes. Exactly. Yes.
And so it just keeps going down, you know, south. It's wild. I'm just like, wow.
Yeah. And the crazy thing is, so when when my wife has to travel up to Northern Virginia, she can make it from we live in York County. She can make it from York County to to Nova in the same amount of time it takes for people within Nova to commute Oh. Within Northern Virginia. Wow.
That's amazing.
I mean, so, like, from York York County to Springfield, you know, she can make it there in the same amount of time as someone who lives on the other side of Northern Virginia into Springfield.
It's crazy. Is amazing. It is crazy. But, anyway, I think there's an opportunity there.
Yeah.
I can't quantify it, but I just yeah. It makes sense.
You you might be the first guest that has done the research to know where we're gonna find out that that last question. Is there anything anything else you wanna talk about that we haven't talked about? It's been
Oh, well, I you know, here's the thing. I know you don't have guests back, but I if that opportunity ever presented itself, I would just love to come back because I've really enjoyed this conversation.
I feel like this is one of those shows where, like, you usually, the hour goes decently fast, but this is one of the shows where it went I looked, and it was, like, forty five, and I was like, oh, boy. We we haven't done anything. Well Well And I I I find that's my my fault. I apologize. So this could be, like, one of those, like, four hour shows.
I feel like we could have actually
into it. We're living into it.
I'm actually I forward
to that.
From from forward to that. From right now to whenever we book this, we want you to be nervous because Great.
Well, actually, this has been such a delightful experience. I probably won't be nervous about the next one. But yes. But, you know, it's interesting to be on the other side of the thing.
(05:37):
So, Kathy, do we do we have a food of the region? Do we have
Yes. White sauce.
See, that that that has surfaced. White sauce and the orange crush are the things that have surfaced.
Whites but white sauce, I think, to me, sauce is the scent is the just the essential. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know? And my daughter she was at UVA, she introduced that at a Mexican restaurant.
She said, do you have white sauce? And he goes, I don't know what you're talking about. And so she has this little cadre of friends, and they got she got them to start making white sauce and bring her hair.
So they reverse engineer, how to make them?
Yep. Yep. Yep. Apparently, it's not that complicated. But Yeah.
It's magical. I don't know how like, you know, it's it's one of those things like
It is good.
Yes. It really, really is. Yes. Yeah. I think it's white sauce.
Allegedly, the orange crush was actually created in Maryland. Some there's a little battle.
Interesting. We have to we have to hold on to it, though. We're not gonna give up the plate.
We do. Yes. Yes. Like Dumars with the ice cream. I'm sorry.
That's where it happened.
No. That's not alleged. That is factual.
Of course. But then somebody else, some other community was trying. I'm like, no. I'm spiteful. The world's fair.
Right? Isn't it? That. Yeah. We're gonna go to the mad over that.
Yeah. That's right. And I love that it's still the same. Like, I love that you can drive to Dumars and see them making the cones, you know, fourth, fifth generation standing there and making the and that's just such an iconic part of, you know, if you've if you've lived here and grown up here, that's another thing about the people who've grown up here. Everybody's been to Dumars who's grown most people who've been at least in the five South Side cities has been to Dumars.
It's just I don't know. It's iconic.
I love Dumars.
Me too. Me too. Me too.
(05:58):
A mince a mince with slaw, pineapple shake. It's rock and roll.
Yeah. And I I am a double slaw Oh. Barbecue girl. Put that double slaw on there. That that is stratospherically wonderful.
Yes.
Okay.
Love it.
Looking forward to part two
Me too.
Coming soon. You know? You know? Hey. Will happen?
What what happened first? You back on the show or, like, stranger things finally comes out?
Oh, yeah. I don't know.
Probably stranger things.
Probably stranger things. Yeah. I hope it's me coming back on the show. But
Yeah. This this was delightful. I really, really
enjoyed it.
Turns out I had nothing to be nervous about either.
Oh, good. I'm glad we I'm glad we we held hands and got through it. I love that. I love that.
Let let the record show
part of my day.
Let the record show zero nerves on this end. Okay.
But, Zach, that's one of the things that makes you so so special is that I feel like you're not scared of anything. I feel like
I nervous. We got something coming up August 21, start up workshop at Sandler Center.
(06:19):
Oh.
I don't know if you ever walked into that venue, but there are a lot of seats. So
you know? Are a ton of seats in there. Yeah.
When when Tim told me, yeah. I think we're gonna do it at Sandler. I'm like
Yeah. Okay.
I'm like, I can just hear the heart beating already. But
you're just so good in those live venues. You'll be great. You know what? Don't worry about it.
As I say, no matter what, the show must go on, and we'll push through it. We can have fun doing it.
Yes. Well, I very much look forward to a return visit. This has been so delightful. Thank you so, so much. I hope our listeners had a good time of it.
Yeah. Let's do it again.
Thank you.
Thank you, Kathy. Have a wonderful day.
Hey, everybody. I'm Tim Ryan, executive director of Innovate Hampton Roads, and I'm inviting you to attend the StartUp World Cup on August 21, 05:00, here at Town Center in Virginia Beach.