October 22, 2024 • 34 mins
Evidence of overwhelming control over Donna has been found, startling details suggesting a motive are revealed, and elusive individuals finally come forward as Tucker's investigation continues.
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Episode Transcript
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>> Narrator (00:00):
The claims, views, and opinions expressed are those of the speaker
and do not represent those of But Why Media or its
partners. All subjects are innocent until proven
guilty. This is a podcast about
difficult topics, and it may not be suitable for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
>> Michelle Thomas (00:32):
Just life in general. I found that to be a
little, Dominating, controlling, if you
will. You gotta give me a list of rules.
I'm probably not the one for you,
Tucker.
>> Demmie Rice (00:43):
Enter the damn phone. If you're still in town, come
by, please.
>> Clay Arceneaux (00:47):
I'm all for this, and I can lead you in
some amazing directions with this,
but I'm still a police officer.
>> "Something Strange" by Tabitha Meeks (01:03):
I'm feeling heavy there's a pounding in
my chest the shadow's
hiding but I see the
silhouettes
fear lives in the quiet
whispers in the sigh.
>> Tucker Simmons (01:23):
I'm Tucker Simmons, and this is freeze
frame, an investigation into the
unsolved murder of Donna Arceneaux.
(01:46):
As you heard at the end of episode three, my impromptu
phone call with Michelle was pretty eye opening.
She remembered an impressive amount of detail, and I wanted to meet her
face to face. A few weeks later, in the lobby of
a hotel on the Mississippi Gulf coast, we dove
much deeper into the origins of her relationship with Donna
and the aftermath of that disturbing night.
(02:06):
Before we get to that, though, I need to tell you something.
Simply put, Michelle has been widely accused of
Donna's murder. Lengthy comment threads on Facebook
have gone off the rails more times than I can count, and
accusations that Michelle was involved in Donna's death have
taken on a life of their own. Those in the comments section
seem to think they have it all figured out. But my goal for
(02:27):
this meeting was to gather information. And to be honest with
you, Michelle has given me no reason to doubt her
story. I walked in thinking I was
early, and there she was, exactly what
I expected. Jet black hair styled to a
t, oversized sunglasses covering most of her
face, what looked like a Chanel suit,
(02:47):
and towering stilettos. Michelle was
unmistakable, and I could immediately picture she and
Donna being friends. Not everyone feels that
way, though. Donna had become reclusive and
wasn't known as a religious woman, so her sudden friendship
with Michelle, a pastor, surprised many
people. And that's where we started. I'll tee it
up and let Michelle speak for herself.
(03:18):
At the time of Donna's death, Michelle was casually dating
John, a local attorney and former town of Franklinton
judge. John and Donna were lifelong friends,
and according to him, he periodically counseled
Donna through rough patches in her life. About one
month before her death, John suggested Donna reach out to
Michelle for help with her depression and relationship
troubles. When I asked about the first conversation
(03:41):
she had with Donna, Michelle had already opened Facebook
Messenger. This is what it said.
>> Donna (03:46):
Hi Michelle, I'm Donna.
I don't think you know me, but I really need someone
to pray with me. I'm in a really dark place in
my life and I have no one. I've been really
sick for about three years now.
If you find time, please contact me
or come by my house. 21229 Highway
(04:07):
16 Franklinton.
>> Tucker Simmons (04:09):
Michelle replied a few minutes later. Hey
doll, I'm in Tennessee at the moment. Please send me your
number. Here's mine. Call me. To which
Donna responded, I don't think.
>> Donna (04:19):
Talking on the phone is going to help me. I will
tell you some of my story starting back when I
was really young. I was
molested from the time I was three
until I was eight. I left home when I
was eleven. I have been on my own ever since.
I had my first child when I was 15.
(04:40):
His father was 26. You
see, I lost my faith a long time
ago. But in spite of all of that,
I worked really hard and achieved a lot of
things in my life. But three years ago
I got really sick and went through
a horrible abusive divorce.
And now I'm losing everything I own.
(05:02):
I have been in bed for five days,
sick, alone and I'm
just really tired.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:14):
According to Michelle, after reading that message, she and
Donna texted and spoke on the phone. The following
interview with Michelle is her recollection of events.
Some of the topics discussed are disturbing.
>> Michelle Thomas (05:30):
We began corresponding and I said,
well, I'm coming to Frankleton, I believe it was on
Tuesday. I said, let me treat you to lunch.
We met at Don Juan's, there in Franklinton and
spent about 2 hours just
talking things she had been through, things she
was dealing with, tried to encourage
her and just pray with her and
(05:53):
immediately had a connection with her. She was an incredible
person. Broken but
beautiful, if that makes sense.
Donna was complex
and she loved being complex.
And she had so many things going on at
(06:13):
so many times that it wasn't one specific
thing. It was just
whether it was Clay wasn't on time
to pick the girl up or her and
Scott was arguing over the house or.
It was different things every day.
And the short time that I was around them,
(06:35):
it seemed that the relationship had grown
toxic.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:39):
Did you counsel them together?
>> Michelle Thomas (06:40):
one time.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:42):
Can you share what that was like?
>> Michelle Thomas (06:44):
There was a situation concerning a letter.
There had been a list of rules given to
her. That she was to follow to maintain
a healthy relationship with him. being
in my profession, just life in general, I found
that to be a little,
dominating, controlling, if you will.
(07:06):
You got to give me a list of rules. I'm probably
not the one for you. I went and met
them specifically to counsel with them and pray with them.
Scott was very personable. He was very kind.
if you would have met him on the street, you would have thought, he's
just slow to anger all the things
that a good, godly guy that was raised in the church should
(07:26):
be. Because he had a pentecostal background.
She felt like I could get through to him. We
had about a 45 minutes conversation that night
where she discussed the letter, and he
contradicted why he had
wrote that and the past reasons why he felt like
that was important. And I saw that
(07:47):
it was not getting anywhere. And she shut
down completely. And when someone shuts down,
you might as well fold your Bible and go home. They're not listening. They're not
retaining your information anymore. She knew he was
getting elevated, and she just wanted to shut it down. And
we shut it down, and I left.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:04):
Did you think about what was going to happen when you left?
>> Michelle Thomas (08:09):
Unfortunately, in the
season that we're in, you find more
toxic relationships than you do healthy,
sadly enough. So it was nothing out of the
ordinary, nothing that caused me an
alarm that I would stay.
Nothing. They just had a
(08:29):
disagreement on what was on that paper. Basically,
she wanted out of the relationship, and he was determined to
fix it. And he felt like what was on that sheet of
paper was what was going to fix the relationship.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:41):
After Donna's death, while removing belongings from the home,
her family found three pages of rules in the nightstand.
Michelle confirmed these rules were the same ones she counseled them
about. They're handwritten on blank sheets of white
paper. Each section is divided by a line across
the page.
>> Narrator (08:59):
Pic of us for profile pic, same
password, any ex deleted
out or anyone that we aren't comfortable
with. If we have Snapchat, we
approve who is on it. We pick up
kids or bring things together.
Unless it's an emergency or we agree to
it. Never, ever hide text from
(09:20):
exes. Talk openly in front of each
other. Dont wait till the other is gone.
Destroys trust. Do not ever respond
to a text unless it pertains to the children.
Unless we agree together. Be
open. Dont get defensive. It just
breaks trust. Dont turn the other
direction when you look at your text or calls. Destroys
(09:42):
trust. If we have to hide stuff, we
shouldnt be doing it if we want to be happy, right?
Always be respectful and considerate. And let the other
person know where you're going. Never, ever
go unaccounted for while I'm at work. Kills
trust. If you have to go somewhere,
keep the phone on. You turn ringers on
(10:03):
phones, no reason to keep them on silent unless
we're at a movie or in church.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:10):
Odd, doesn't even begin to explain it. The Donna
I grew up around would have never put up with something like
this. Jumping ahead for a second, in
later conversations with Michelle, she remembered a typed
contract that Scott presented to Donna during their counseling
session. Many of the same rules you just heard were
included in that contract. It had a signature
line, and what appeared to be Donna's signature was already on
(10:32):
it.
Donna had known Michelle for only a month before her death.
And during that month, she shared her deepest, darkest
(10:53):
secrets.
>> Michelle Thomas (10:54):
To my knowledge, according to
her, there had been,
prior domestic violence. And that
she said it was escalating
to that point again. And it was not. She was
not going to let it get to that point, that she was going to get a
restraining order, that she was taking her life
(11:15):
back. I mean, the minute the law gets
involved, there's violence. Somebody's got to get out,
because that's a recipe for disaster.
So that was my advice to her
from that conversation.
We did not speak till I found her.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:34):
That conversation happened the week prior.
We touched on this in episode three. But as Michelle
remembers it, during that same conversation about alleged
domestic violence, Donna wanted to make weekend
plans. Michelle told her she would be in Florida and
could come by on her way home to spend the night. They would get up the next
morning, do their hair, and just hang out.
>> Michelle Thomas (11:56):
I left for Florida. I tried to call
her at the airport. She didn't answer that.
Washington on Friday,
Saturday, or Sunday, I don't remember.
Is when I saw the post on facebook,
and that worried me.
>> Tucker Simmons (12:14):
is that the post that said, feeling very sad?
>> Michelle Thomas (12:16):
Yes. So I reached out and I couldn't get
her. Must have
been sometime Sunday afternoon. I jumped on there and
said, hang on, I'm coming. You know, just hang on, I'm
coming. Why I did that publicly, I don't
know. I just wanted her and everyone else to know,
I'm coming. I'm gonna be there.
(12:37):
Sunday afternoon. I must have tried two or
three times to get a hold of her. Monday
morning, Scott reached out to
me and wanted to know if I had heard
from Donna. And I said, no, I've been trying since
yesterday, and I'm a little concerned. Of course,
all those text messages were presented to
the sheriff's department, and he was real persistent
(13:00):
on, when you come by,
let's go check on her. And I said, well, I had originally planned
to stay the night with her, but that's changed. I've got to get home. My little
boy had ear infections. He said, I really need to get home to Branham.
My mom's got him, but I'm going to come back the next
day and I'll check on her then. She's fine.
He just persists. No, I want you
(13:21):
to. How late are you coming in? I said, well, my flight don't
land till after 09:00. 930
10:00 and I think it was even delayed at
that. And he said, well, I'm gonna be
up. Just, just drop by
and let's go by there and check on her.
Something didn't feel. I felt pressured to go
(13:42):
by, but I thought, well, maybe there's something he don't
know that he don't want to say on the phone.
Maybe she's in a real bad
depression and he's trying to protect her. And he thinks, if I come
by, we can just have prayer going about the business.
So I landed. It was a little out
of my way to go through Franklin. I stopped
(14:02):
by. It was a cold night. That night
will forever be etched in my
mind.
He had turned the hall light on as he
went through. And you could see.
You could see blood
down the hallway. And it was
(14:22):
enough blood that you knew something
had happened. From the position where I
was standing, you could kind of see
he hadn't quite got there yet.
And I heard him begin to scream, oh, my God.
Donna. Oh, my God, Donna. She's
dead. And when he said that, my heart. Just
(14:43):
as I ran toward the bedroom, and
there she was.
And it is a sight
that I'll never forget and pray daily to
forget. It's horrible,
Scott. And I was in the bedroom.
Donna was on the floor.
(15:06):
But somebody else was in that house.
Because I could hear them.
I heard when they dropped something.
And if it wasn't the dog and the daughter wasn't
there, who else was there?
And what had I been called to?
>> Tucker Simmons (15:29):
Wait a second. This is the first time I'm hearing anything
about someone else in the house. I asked multiple follow up
questions, and Michelle stood by the claim she never
saw anyone else. And did give the caveat that it could have just
been her nerves. But the more we discussed it, the
more she doubled down on the claim. In later
conversations, Demmie revealed she had no recollection
(15:49):
of Michelle making these claims to investigators.
After making the frantic 911 call you've heard a few times
now, Michelle explained how John, the local
attorney she was dating, ended up on scene.
>> Michelle Thomas (16:08):
I hung up the phone. I immediately called a
friend and said, get here
now. I'm in the room. Donna's
dead, and he's here.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:18):
So you. John gets there first, John gets there first,
and then what happens? Do you guys go inside?
>> Michelle Thomas (16:24):
We're outside. I never went back inside. In
fact, I had to left,
my keys either on the dresser or the
bed. And I had to get a detective to
go back and get it.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:38):
What kind of car did you drive at the time?
>> Michelle Thomas (16:39):
A white Mercedes. And they kept my
car for a while and took it to the crime
lab. I was asked to go to the police
department. immediately I was a suspect.
Did Scott? Because it was a while before he got
there. I was brought in for 12
hours for, questioning. I was there
12 hours. Keep, in mind. I had just finished a
(17:02):
revival, took a late flight, and I was exhausted.
my clothes were taken. a representative from
the state police lab scooped my
fingernails. They took DNA of
me, a mouse swab. They took
pictures of my body I had to take. Very humiliating
how they did it. They even. A year,
maybe two years after that, I had to come from
(17:25):
out of town, back to Bogaloosa. And I met in Demmie's
office on video and gave my
statement. Again, I think they did a thorough job, but
I think it's changed hands so many times that
important evidence has not been followed up on.
Because if it had, why leave
such a gray perception in the community
(17:45):
when there's a nucleus of people that demand
a response?
>> Tucker Simmons (17:55):
In my conversations with Demmie, she, too, felt like Michelle had
withstood a series of aggressive interrogations
that combined with the proof of her trip to Florida and her
flight, it all convinced investigators that Michelle
wasn't involved. So I asked Michelle how she felt about all
the speculation around her.
>> Michelle Thomas (18:12):
Is it just easier to brand me that,
well, I'm the woman that had divorced the policeman,
and I had two children that were addicts that were in and out of
jail. Is it just easier to divert
attention to me? So anybody that has
any questionable thought that I was
involved and all the gossip and the rumor
(18:32):
mill that that area loves would eventually be
put to naught anyway. So I just let people
talk. Believe what you want to believe, because it's in the record
and the facts are going to be laid out, and then you're going to feel,
you know, like you just spoke out of term.
That's what I'm dependent on. And the reason I've not made
a fuss or did a press conference. I've been asked three
(18:52):
times to do a press conference. And why I did with you, I don't know.
I just felt led to do it with you. But
it's because I know eventually this is going to go to
trial, and I need to just
remain quiet with what I know. Until then,
just keep me posted.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:09):
I will.
>> Michelle Thomas (19:10):
Thank you. You're welcome.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:12):
On my drive home, I listened back to our three hour
conversation. No question was off limits. And Michelle
gave detailed answers to every one of them, with the exception
of a few minor details that could very well just be a
faded memory. Seven years later, her story
hasn't changed. Demmie and I
played phonetag for a few days before we could debrief, and
then she left me this voicemail.
>> Demmie Rice (19:34):
Tucker, answer the damn phone.
Listen, I found, a draft of an arrest
warrant on that subject before
they took me off the case. So if you're still in town, come by,
please.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:48):
In case you're wondering, yes. Demmie often starts her
voicemails scolding me for not answering.
I wasn't able to stop by, so Demmie sent me the draft of
her arrest warrant. The first batch of files she found
contained much of the same information, but this one had
many more key details.
>> Narrator (20:05):
Louisiana State Police crime lab recovered a bullet
in the box spring of Donna's bed. Her blood
DNA was on it. She was in bed
on her back when the bullet entered her lower left
breast, traveling through the heart, left
lung, left diaphragm, liver, and
spleen. The day after his autopsy,
St. Tammany Parish chief pathologist Doctor Michael
(20:27):
DeFatta made an unusual request.
He wanted to visit the scene. The results
of his autopsy clearly showed Donna's death was a
homicide. He was confused why the
lead investigator was so convinced of suicide
while on scene. Doctor DeFatta confirmed to
investigators that the trajectory of the bullet could only
be explained in one way. Donna's knees
(20:49):
were above her head, which shifted her organs
into the chest cavity.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:55):
As I mentioned in episode two, Doctor DeFatta is now
employed by Jefferson Parish coroner's office in New Orleans.
It took several weeks to reach him, and when I did, he allowed
me to record a brief portion of our conversation.
>> Doctor Michael DeFatta (21:07):
There is no doubt in my mind that this is a
homicide and not a suicide.
That's about all I can say on it, unfortunately.
Right now.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:17):
Did you feel pressured to rule this a
suicide.
>> Doctor Michael DeFatta (21:21):
Again, I'll refrain from saying
anything about that. I'm pretty
convinced from the autopsy moving forward that this was a
homicide.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:29):
As you heard, he was extremely careful with his words.
He was the same way off the record. But what I gathered, and
this is my opinion, is that Doctor DeFatta shares
in the frustration of many of those who've worked this case.
Now, let's get back to Demmie's arrest warrant. One
of the other incidents it revealed was a call to the Washington Paris
sheriff's office to report domestic abuse at Donna's
(21:50):
home. Records requests have been repeatedly
denied, so this was the first confirmation of my
suspicions. At 04:04 a.m. on October
9, 2016, Scott was booked into
Washington Parish jail on charges of domestic abuse
and child endangerment. I was later sent photos of
Donna taken after the altercation, which show her chest
discolored and scratched, her forearm scratched and
(22:12):
bloody, and a bruise on her left cheek. It's
unclear if Donna tried to pursue the case, but two weeks
later, the DA's office dropped all charges.
As if this wasn't surprising enough, I continued reading
Demmie's file. And another bombshell dropped.
>> Narrator (22:28):
On October 30, 2017,
one week after he found Donna, Scott was
administered a polygraph he failed.
During post polygraph questioning, Scott
revealed he did return to Donna's after 01:00 p.m.
to retrieve his wallet, contradicting his
original statement. During that time,
their argument reignited and Donna
(22:50):
eventually pushed him out the door.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:54):
It's difficult for me to imagine forgetting such an important
detail, returning to what would become the scene of a
murder. Polygraphs are used as an
investigative tool and not admissible in court, but this is still
a huge piece of the puzzle.
Clay was also polygraphed. He passed and was
not subjected to post polygraph questioning. He did,
however, reveal some shocking allegations when Demmie
(23:16):
interviewed him.
>> Narrator (23:19):
In a sworn statement to Detective Demmie Rice,
Clay admitted he and Donna had a turbulent marriage,
which continued through their divorce until a
year before her death, when they became friends and
were co parenting their daughter. In subsequent
interviews, Donna's sister Sherry confirmed the claims
of reconciliation. Donna called her before
(23:40):
taking a weekend trip with Clay and their daughter not long
before her death. According to Clay's
statements to investigators, Donna confided in
him that her relationship with Scott was rough and
ask him to take photos of her bruised face following an
altercation. Six weeks prior to
her death, Clay claims Donna told him she had a
(24:00):
video of her boyfriend in a compromising situation.
As he remembered it, Donna stated, if.
>> Donna (24:06):
I'm losing my house, he's losing his
reputation.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:11):
You heard that, right? Donna claimed to have a video
that she was considering using in some way to try to save her
home. If true, could this be the motive for
her murder? Or is it just more absurd small town
gossip? Let me know what yall think.
I havent seen the video for myself, and my legal counsel
has forbidden me from giving you the details of what was allegedly
(24:31):
seen in the video. But what I can say is
that Donna described an incredibly disturbing encounter between
family members. Even if she didnt have the video,
the claim alone would be enough to threaten those who were
in it.
And I guess now would be the time to share my thoughts on the idea that
Donna would secretly record situations or save
compromising videos in the first place. I won't
(24:53):
go into detail right now, but I have personal knowledge of two
other videos Donna claimed to have that were unrelated
to her death. Just like she claimed to Clay.
Those other videos were of several individuals in
compromising situations. The first involved an alleged
drug deal among prominent community members, which I've
never seen. The other involved one of her
(25:13):
exes, and I know for a fact that one
existed. I share this with you because as
crazy as the allegation sounds, Donna did have
a history of collecting information, just like Demmie
alluded to at the end of episode one.
>> Demmie Rice (25:26):
Because let me tell you something.
On all the
cops.
And he wasn't afraid to use it.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:38):
If Donna did, in fact, have a video of Scott, I need
to know what was really on it. Because if there's anything I've
learned from this investigation, it's that everyone
embellishes what they know.
In the meantime, I was relentless with my outreach to
Clay. So far, he was the only person Donna
(26:00):
gave explicit details to about the video she claimed to
have. I tried calling him using a new number,
a local number, and to my surprise, he
answered.
>> Clay Arceneaux (26:15):
Hello?
>> Tucker Simmons (26:16):
Hey, Clay. This is Tucker Simmons. I think maybe Sherry told you
I might be calling.
>> Clay Arceneaux (26:20):
Yeah.
How are you, man?
>> Tucker Simmons (26:22):
Good, good. How are you?
>> Clay Arceneaux (26:24):
Just, working. Working today. Buddy, I'm all for
this, and I can lead you in some amazing
directions with this, but I'm still
a police officer.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:34):
We spoke off the record for about 30 minutes.
He apologized for blocking me and explained his skepticism,
given how the case had been fumbled so many times.
I m could tell he was caught off guard by how much I knew of the case
already. And he repeatedly expressed his happiness
that someone was looking into it.
A couple of days later, we met at a coffee shop in St.
(26:55):
Tammany Parish. I planned to record,
but once again, we agreed to be off the record.
In hindsight, I wish I had pressed the issue, but at the time,
I just needed more information, and I wanted to make sure he felt
comfortable. After all, this was the first time we met.
Other than those traffic stops when I was in high school.
3 hours later, we had covered it all. Donna's
(27:15):
life, their marriage, their daughter, his
anger about how the case was handled and the allegations
that he was involved in Donna's death. He assured
me hed stay in touch and at a later date, do an on the record
interview for this podcast. We spoke
periodically about the case for over a year, but could
never coordinate the interview. Eventually,
after many unreturned calls and texts, I told Clay
(27:38):
we had to move on and that I would be reporting the unexplained
breakdown in communication. But four days
later, Clay agreed to the interview. He was
much more careful with his words and theories on the record, but his
opinions of the case and those involved were very
clear. As you'll hear, his daughter's name
has been censored.
>> Clay Arceneaux (27:56):
Just like any relationship, we had our ups and
downs, you know, and it was just one
of these. As time went on, we started growing
apart.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:06):
Were you physically violent against Donna during your marriage?
>> Clay Arceneaux (28:09):
There was no violence. Physical violence, like in your
relationship? We had our arguments, our ups and downs,
and then, the affair happened, and that's
what ultimately ended our relationship.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:21):
There was an incident where
she supposedly sent a photo of herself holding
a gun to her head to you, and she was then
admitted to Riverside and then subsequently sent
to a psych ward?
>> Clay Arceneaux (28:34):
Yes. I was actually sitting in my attorney's office when she sent the
photo. My heart dropped,
and I handed the phone to him and his paralegal,
and that's when that process got started.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:45):
When I reached out to Justin, see if
he remembered the photo, he said that it
wasn't in evidence because there was never an arrest.
So what would you say to people who claim that
the photo never existed and you were just trying to get custody
of?
>> Clay Arceneaux (29:01):
I would say that to refute all of that
is the order of protection. Would have never been handled without
said photo. It was not a power play to get.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:11):
I'm gonna read you really quick. What is
in the medical record. Patient reports.
Quote, my husband is doing all these things
because we are separated, and he is crazy. Patient
reports, physical abuse, emotional abuse,
threats of violence by spouse against patients.
What's your reaction to her quotes in the
(29:32):
medical records?
>> Clay Arceneaux (29:34):
I just think saying whatever they need to say to get out of
the situation she was in.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:40):
Interesting.
So, what was your relationship with Donna leading up to her
death, like, in the, few months leading up to
it?
>> Clay Arceneaux (29:48):
Surprisingly, and I've told you this before, in the many times
we've talked, we actually got along a lot better divorce than we
did the last few years of our marriage. We
talked and texted daily,
and we co parented very well.
But when the relationship she was in
took an extremely bad turn for the worse,
(30:08):
she would call me for advice, she would call me upset, she would
call me, and you could just tell she wanted
to talk, she wanted to vent.
And through that, we became closer and closer and
closer.
>> Tucker Simmons (30:22):
A couple people say that Donna would come over in the
last few months of her life, and she would sleep in her
car because she was terrified. And she would
tell them, if anything happens to me,
one of them did it. The implication is it was either
you or Scott. Is there any reason she would be
scared of you?
>> Clay Arceneaux (30:40):
No. No. But I do know about the sleeping in the
car. I do know about him
tracking her down wherever she went, because I witnessed it firsthand,
multiple times. And one night, she met
me at the shell station on
Pearl street, right next to the sheriff's office, just to talk and
catch up. And we were. I was on duty, and she
was talking to me for, like, 30 minutes. And he came flying
(31:03):
up, and she was like, yeah, he's got a tracker on my car. She
was convinced her phone was bugged,
and she had stated she'd found a recording device in her salon
under her desk. And when she'd come to
Florida, like you alluded to, she turned her phone totally
off. And she even told me, she's like, he will
track me down. Her
personal situation has become
(31:25):
stonewall and so violent
that it was a powder keg. I told
her, these things only get worse, and you need to get out of
there. She always said she had a
plan, but unfortunately, it
never, never came to light,
and we lost her.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:44):
Did she ever share with you what.
>> Clay Arceneaux (31:45):
That plan was
as her profession as a beautician in a small
town? she would always say that she
had, you know, she knew dirt on everyone.
She had some, quote, dirt on
him and that he was going to be gone
shortly. I think that was
a match that lit the fire.
(32:08):
So she was very,
very upfront with that. She knew the dirty little
secrets on a lot of people in that town.
>> Tucker Simmons (32:16):
Were any of them sheriff's deputies?
>> Clay Arceneaux (32:19):
there were some that were at the sheriff's office. Yes.
>> "Something Strange" by Tabitha Meeks (32:37):
I look close.
I see something
staring back at
me. No sound,
can't look it in light.
There's Something Strange in the air
tonight.
>> Tucker Simmons (33:02):
Well, that was a ton of new information. Let me
know what your theories are so far in episode five, we've got
the rest of my interview with Clay, plus a shocking turn of
events when my investigation is made public. Make
sure you follow rate and review on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify or wherever you're listening. It's a huge help in spreading the
word about Donna's case. Then head over to
freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on
(33:24):
the investigation and follow us on socials at Freeze
Framepod for exclusive content. Freeze frame
is a but why media production it's written and produced by
me, Tucker Simmons, editing and post
production by Evan Desonnier, narration by
Greg Geringer and Carrie Lauren. And our
original music is Something Strange by Tabitha
Meeks.
The claims, views, and opinions expressed are those of the speaker
and do not represent those of But Why Media or its
partners. All subjects are innocent until proven
guilty. This is a podcast about
difficult topics, and it may not be suitable for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
>> Michelle Thomas (00:32):
Just life in general. I found that to be a
little, Dominating, controlling, if you
will. You gotta give me a list of rules.
I'm probably not the one for you,
Tucker.
>> Demmie Rice (00:43):
Enter the damn phone. If you're still in town, come
by, please.
>> Clay Arceneaux (00:47):
I'm all for this, and I can lead you in
some amazing directions with this,
but I'm still a police officer.
>> "Something Strange" by Tabitha Meeks (01:03):
I'm feeling heavy there's a pounding in
my chest the shadow's
hiding but I see the
silhouettes
fear lives in the quiet
whispers in the sigh.
>> Tucker Simmons (01:23):
I'm Tucker Simmons, and this is freeze
frame, an investigation into the
unsolved murder of Donna Arceneaux.
(01:46):
As you heard at the end of episode three, my impromptu
phone call with Michelle was pretty eye opening.
She remembered an impressive amount of detail, and I wanted to meet her
face to face. A few weeks later, in the lobby of
a hotel on the Mississippi Gulf coast, we dove
much deeper into the origins of her relationship with Donna
and the aftermath of that disturbing night.
(02:06):
Before we get to that, though, I need to tell you something.
Simply put, Michelle has been widely accused of
Donna's murder. Lengthy comment threads on Facebook
have gone off the rails more times than I can count, and
accusations that Michelle was involved in Donna's death have
taken on a life of their own. Those in the comments section
seem to think they have it all figured out. But my goal for
(02:27):
this meeting was to gather information. And to be honest with
you, Michelle has given me no reason to doubt her
story. I walked in thinking I was
early, and there she was, exactly what
I expected. Jet black hair styled to a
t, oversized sunglasses covering most of her
face, what looked like a Chanel suit,
(02:47):
and towering stilettos. Michelle was
unmistakable, and I could immediately picture she and
Donna being friends. Not everyone feels that
way, though. Donna had become reclusive and
wasn't known as a religious woman, so her sudden friendship
with Michelle, a pastor, surprised many
people. And that's where we started. I'll tee it
up and let Michelle speak for herself.
(03:18):
At the time of Donna's death, Michelle was casually dating
John, a local attorney and former town of Franklinton
judge. John and Donna were lifelong friends,
and according to him, he periodically counseled
Donna through rough patches in her life. About one
month before her death, John suggested Donna reach out to
Michelle for help with her depression and relationship
troubles. When I asked about the first conversation
(03:41):
she had with Donna, Michelle had already opened Facebook
Messenger. This is what it said.
>> Donna (03:46):
Hi Michelle, I'm Donna.
I don't think you know me, but I really need someone
to pray with me. I'm in a really dark place in
my life and I have no one. I've been really
sick for about three years now.
If you find time, please contact me
or come by my house. 21229 Highway
(04:07):
16 Franklinton.
>> Tucker Simmons (04:09):
Michelle replied a few minutes later. Hey
doll, I'm in Tennessee at the moment. Please send me your
number. Here's mine. Call me. To which
Donna responded, I don't think.
>> Donna (04:19):
Talking on the phone is going to help me. I will
tell you some of my story starting back when I
was really young. I was
molested from the time I was three
until I was eight. I left home when I
was eleven. I have been on my own ever since.
I had my first child when I was 15.
(04:40):
His father was 26. You
see, I lost my faith a long time
ago. But in spite of all of that,
I worked really hard and achieved a lot of
things in my life. But three years ago
I got really sick and went through
a horrible abusive divorce.
And now I'm losing everything I own.
(05:02):
I have been in bed for five days,
sick, alone and I'm
just really tired.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:14):
According to Michelle, after reading that message, she and
Donna texted and spoke on the phone. The following
interview with Michelle is her recollection of events.
Some of the topics discussed are disturbing.
>> Michelle Thomas (05:30):
We began corresponding and I said,
well, I'm coming to Frankleton, I believe it was on
Tuesday. I said, let me treat you to lunch.
We met at Don Juan's, there in Franklinton and
spent about 2 hours just
talking things she had been through, things she
was dealing with, tried to encourage
her and just pray with her and
(05:53):
immediately had a connection with her. She was an incredible
person. Broken but
beautiful, if that makes sense.
Donna was complex
and she loved being complex.
And she had so many things going on at
(06:13):
so many times that it wasn't one specific
thing. It was just
whether it was Clay wasn't on time
to pick the girl up or her and
Scott was arguing over the house or.
It was different things every day.
And the short time that I was around them,
(06:35):
it seemed that the relationship had grown
toxic.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:39):
Did you counsel them together?
>> Michelle Thomas (06:40):
one time.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:42):
Can you share what that was like?
>> Michelle Thomas (06:44):
There was a situation concerning a letter.
There had been a list of rules given to
her. That she was to follow to maintain
a healthy relationship with him. being
in my profession, just life in general, I found
that to be a little,
dominating, controlling, if you will.
(07:06):
You got to give me a list of rules. I'm probably
not the one for you. I went and met
them specifically to counsel with them and pray with them.
Scott was very personable. He was very kind.
if you would have met him on the street, you would have thought, he's
just slow to anger all the things
that a good, godly guy that was raised in the church should
(07:26):
be. Because he had a pentecostal background.
She felt like I could get through to him. We
had about a 45 minutes conversation that night
where she discussed the letter, and he
contradicted why he had
wrote that and the past reasons why he felt like
that was important. And I saw that
(07:47):
it was not getting anywhere. And she shut
down completely. And when someone shuts down,
you might as well fold your Bible and go home. They're not listening. They're not
retaining your information anymore. She knew he was
getting elevated, and she just wanted to shut it down. And
we shut it down, and I left.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:04):
Did you think about what was going to happen when you left?
>> Michelle Thomas (08:09):
Unfortunately, in the
season that we're in, you find more
toxic relationships than you do healthy,
sadly enough. So it was nothing out of the
ordinary, nothing that caused me an
alarm that I would stay.
Nothing. They just had a
(08:29):
disagreement on what was on that paper. Basically,
she wanted out of the relationship, and he was determined to
fix it. And he felt like what was on that sheet of
paper was what was going to fix the relationship.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:41):
After Donna's death, while removing belongings from the home,
her family found three pages of rules in the nightstand.
Michelle confirmed these rules were the same ones she counseled them
about. They're handwritten on blank sheets of white
paper. Each section is divided by a line across
the page.
>> Narrator (08:59):
Pic of us for profile pic, same
password, any ex deleted
out or anyone that we aren't comfortable
with. If we have Snapchat, we
approve who is on it. We pick up
kids or bring things together.
Unless it's an emergency or we agree to
it. Never, ever hide text from
(09:20):
exes. Talk openly in front of each
other. Dont wait till the other is gone.
Destroys trust. Do not ever respond
to a text unless it pertains to the children.
Unless we agree together. Be
open. Dont get defensive. It just
breaks trust. Dont turn the other
direction when you look at your text or calls. Destroys
(09:42):
trust. If we have to hide stuff, we
shouldnt be doing it if we want to be happy, right?
Always be respectful and considerate. And let the other
person know where you're going. Never, ever
go unaccounted for while I'm at work. Kills
trust. If you have to go somewhere,
keep the phone on. You turn ringers on
(10:03):
phones, no reason to keep them on silent unless
we're at a movie or in church.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:10):
Odd, doesn't even begin to explain it. The Donna
I grew up around would have never put up with something like
this. Jumping ahead for a second, in
later conversations with Michelle, she remembered a typed
contract that Scott presented to Donna during their counseling
session. Many of the same rules you just heard were
included in that contract. It had a signature
line, and what appeared to be Donna's signature was already on
(10:32):
it.
Donna had known Michelle for only a month before her death.
And during that month, she shared her deepest, darkest
(10:53):
secrets.
>> Michelle Thomas (10:54):
To my knowledge, according to
her, there had been,
prior domestic violence. And that
she said it was escalating
to that point again. And it was not. She was
not going to let it get to that point, that she was going to get a
restraining order, that she was taking her life
(11:15):
back. I mean, the minute the law gets
involved, there's violence. Somebody's got to get out,
because that's a recipe for disaster.
So that was my advice to her
from that conversation.
We did not speak till I found her.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:34):
That conversation happened the week prior.
We touched on this in episode three. But as Michelle
remembers it, during that same conversation about alleged
domestic violence, Donna wanted to make weekend
plans. Michelle told her she would be in Florida and
could come by on her way home to spend the night. They would get up the next
morning, do their hair, and just hang out.
>> Michelle Thomas (11:56):
I left for Florida. I tried to call
her at the airport. She didn't answer that.
Washington on Friday,
Saturday, or Sunday, I don't remember.
Is when I saw the post on facebook,
and that worried me.
>> Tucker Simmons (12:14):
is that the post that said, feeling very sad?
>> Michelle Thomas (12:16):
Yes. So I reached out and I couldn't get
her. Must have
been sometime Sunday afternoon. I jumped on there and
said, hang on, I'm coming. You know, just hang on, I'm
coming. Why I did that publicly, I don't
know. I just wanted her and everyone else to know,
I'm coming. I'm gonna be there.
(12:37):
Sunday afternoon. I must have tried two or
three times to get a hold of her. Monday
morning, Scott reached out to
me and wanted to know if I had heard
from Donna. And I said, no, I've been trying since
yesterday, and I'm a little concerned. Of course,
all those text messages were presented to
the sheriff's department, and he was real persistent
(13:00):
on, when you come by,
let's go check on her. And I said, well, I had originally planned
to stay the night with her, but that's changed. I've got to get home. My little
boy had ear infections. He said, I really need to get home to Branham.
My mom's got him, but I'm going to come back the next
day and I'll check on her then. She's fine.
He just persists. No, I want you
(13:21):
to. How late are you coming in? I said, well, my flight don't
land till after 09:00. 930
10:00 and I think it was even delayed at
that. And he said, well, I'm gonna be
up. Just, just drop by
and let's go by there and check on her.
Something didn't feel. I felt pressured to go
(13:42):
by, but I thought, well, maybe there's something he don't
know that he don't want to say on the phone.
Maybe she's in a real bad
depression and he's trying to protect her. And he thinks, if I come
by, we can just have prayer going about the business.
So I landed. It was a little out
of my way to go through Franklin. I stopped
(14:02):
by. It was a cold night. That night
will forever be etched in my
mind.
He had turned the hall light on as he
went through. And you could see.
You could see blood
down the hallway. And it was
(14:22):
enough blood that you knew something
had happened. From the position where I
was standing, you could kind of see
he hadn't quite got there yet.
And I heard him begin to scream, oh, my God.
Donna. Oh, my God, Donna. She's
dead. And when he said that, my heart. Just
(14:43):
as I ran toward the bedroom, and
there she was.
And it is a sight
that I'll never forget and pray daily to
forget. It's horrible,
Scott. And I was in the bedroom.
Donna was on the floor.
(15:06):
But somebody else was in that house.
Because I could hear them.
I heard when they dropped something.
And if it wasn't the dog and the daughter wasn't
there, who else was there?
And what had I been called to?
>> Tucker Simmons (15:29):
Wait a second. This is the first time I'm hearing anything
about someone else in the house. I asked multiple follow up
questions, and Michelle stood by the claim she never
saw anyone else. And did give the caveat that it could have just
been her nerves. But the more we discussed it, the
more she doubled down on the claim. In later
conversations, Demmie revealed she had no recollection
(15:49):
of Michelle making these claims to investigators.
After making the frantic 911 call you've heard a few times
now, Michelle explained how John, the local
attorney she was dating, ended up on scene.
>> Michelle Thomas (16:08):
I hung up the phone. I immediately called a
friend and said, get here
now. I'm in the room. Donna's
dead, and he's here.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:18):
So you. John gets there first, John gets there first,
and then what happens? Do you guys go inside?
>> Michelle Thomas (16:24):
We're outside. I never went back inside. In
fact, I had to left,
my keys either on the dresser or the
bed. And I had to get a detective to
go back and get it.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:38):
What kind of car did you drive at the time?
>> Michelle Thomas (16:39):
A white Mercedes. And they kept my
car for a while and took it to the crime
lab. I was asked to go to the police
department. immediately I was a suspect.
Did Scott? Because it was a while before he got
there. I was brought in for 12
hours for, questioning. I was there
12 hours. Keep, in mind. I had just finished a
(17:02):
revival, took a late flight, and I was exhausted.
my clothes were taken. a representative from
the state police lab scooped my
fingernails. They took DNA of
me, a mouse swab. They took
pictures of my body I had to take. Very humiliating
how they did it. They even. A year,
maybe two years after that, I had to come from
(17:25):
out of town, back to Bogaloosa. And I met in Demmie's
office on video and gave my
statement. Again, I think they did a thorough job, but
I think it's changed hands so many times that
important evidence has not been followed up on.
Because if it had, why leave
such a gray perception in the community
(17:45):
when there's a nucleus of people that demand
a response?
>> Tucker Simmons (17:55):
In my conversations with Demmie, she, too, felt like Michelle had
withstood a series of aggressive interrogations
that combined with the proof of her trip to Florida and her
flight, it all convinced investigators that Michelle
wasn't involved. So I asked Michelle how she felt about all
the speculation around her.
>> Michelle Thomas (18:12):
Is it just easier to brand me that,
well, I'm the woman that had divorced the policeman,
and I had two children that were addicts that were in and out of
jail. Is it just easier to divert
attention to me? So anybody that has
any questionable thought that I was
involved and all the gossip and the rumor
(18:32):
mill that that area loves would eventually be
put to naught anyway. So I just let people
talk. Believe what you want to believe, because it's in the record
and the facts are going to be laid out, and then you're going to feel,
you know, like you just spoke out of term.
That's what I'm dependent on. And the reason I've not made
a fuss or did a press conference. I've been asked three
(18:52):
times to do a press conference. And why I did with you, I don't know.
I just felt led to do it with you. But
it's because I know eventually this is going to go to
trial, and I need to just
remain quiet with what I know. Until then,
just keep me posted.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:09):
I will.
>> Michelle Thomas (19:10):
Thank you. You're welcome.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:12):
On my drive home, I listened back to our three hour
conversation. No question was off limits. And Michelle
gave detailed answers to every one of them, with the exception
of a few minor details that could very well just be a
faded memory. Seven years later, her story
hasn't changed. Demmie and I
played phonetag for a few days before we could debrief, and
then she left me this voicemail.
>> Demmie Rice (19:34):
Tucker, answer the damn phone.
Listen, I found, a draft of an arrest
warrant on that subject before
they took me off the case. So if you're still in town, come by,
please.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:48):
In case you're wondering, yes. Demmie often starts her
voicemails scolding me for not answering.
I wasn't able to stop by, so Demmie sent me the draft of
her arrest warrant. The first batch of files she found
contained much of the same information, but this one had
many more key details.
>> Narrator (20:05):
Louisiana State Police crime lab recovered a bullet
in the box spring of Donna's bed. Her blood
DNA was on it. She was in bed
on her back when the bullet entered her lower left
breast, traveling through the heart, left
lung, left diaphragm, liver, and
spleen. The day after his autopsy,
St. Tammany Parish chief pathologist Doctor Michael
(20:27):
DeFatta made an unusual request.
He wanted to visit the scene. The results
of his autopsy clearly showed Donna's death was a
homicide. He was confused why the
lead investigator was so convinced of suicide
while on scene. Doctor DeFatta confirmed to
investigators that the trajectory of the bullet could only
be explained in one way. Donna's knees
(20:49):
were above her head, which shifted her organs
into the chest cavity.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:55):
As I mentioned in episode two, Doctor DeFatta is now
employed by Jefferson Parish coroner's office in New Orleans.
It took several weeks to reach him, and when I did, he allowed
me to record a brief portion of our conversation.
>> Doctor Michael DeFatta (21:07):
There is no doubt in my mind that this is a
homicide and not a suicide.
That's about all I can say on it, unfortunately.
Right now.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:17):
Did you feel pressured to rule this a
suicide.
>> Doctor Michael DeFatta (21:21):
Again, I'll refrain from saying
anything about that. I'm pretty
convinced from the autopsy moving forward that this was a
homicide.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:29):
As you heard, he was extremely careful with his words.
He was the same way off the record. But what I gathered, and
this is my opinion, is that Doctor DeFatta shares
in the frustration of many of those who've worked this case.
Now, let's get back to Demmie's arrest warrant. One
of the other incidents it revealed was a call to the Washington Paris
sheriff's office to report domestic abuse at Donna's
(21:50):
home. Records requests have been repeatedly
denied, so this was the first confirmation of my
suspicions. At 04:04 a.m. on October
9, 2016, Scott was booked into
Washington Parish jail on charges of domestic abuse
and child endangerment. I was later sent photos of
Donna taken after the altercation, which show her chest
discolored and scratched, her forearm scratched and
(22:12):
bloody, and a bruise on her left cheek. It's
unclear if Donna tried to pursue the case, but two weeks
later, the DA's office dropped all charges.
As if this wasn't surprising enough, I continued reading
Demmie's file. And another bombshell dropped.
>> Narrator (22:28):
On October 30, 2017,
one week after he found Donna, Scott was
administered a polygraph he failed.
During post polygraph questioning, Scott
revealed he did return to Donna's after 01:00 p.m.
to retrieve his wallet, contradicting his
original statement. During that time,
their argument reignited and Donna
(22:50):
eventually pushed him out the door.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:54):
It's difficult for me to imagine forgetting such an important
detail, returning to what would become the scene of a
murder. Polygraphs are used as an
investigative tool and not admissible in court, but this is still
a huge piece of the puzzle.
Clay was also polygraphed. He passed and was
not subjected to post polygraph questioning. He did,
however, reveal some shocking allegations when Demmie
(23:16):
interviewed him.
>> Narrator (23:19):
In a sworn statement to Detective Demmie Rice,
Clay admitted he and Donna had a turbulent marriage,
which continued through their divorce until a
year before her death, when they became friends and
were co parenting their daughter. In subsequent
interviews, Donna's sister Sherry confirmed the claims
of reconciliation. Donna called her before
(23:40):
taking a weekend trip with Clay and their daughter not long
before her death. According to Clay's
statements to investigators, Donna confided in
him that her relationship with Scott was rough and
ask him to take photos of her bruised face following an
altercation. Six weeks prior to
her death, Clay claims Donna told him she had a
(24:00):
video of her boyfriend in a compromising situation.
As he remembered it, Donna stated, if.
>> Donna (24:06):
I'm losing my house, he's losing his
reputation.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:11):
You heard that, right? Donna claimed to have a video
that she was considering using in some way to try to save her
home. If true, could this be the motive for
her murder? Or is it just more absurd small town
gossip? Let me know what yall think.
I havent seen the video for myself, and my legal counsel
has forbidden me from giving you the details of what was allegedly
(24:31):
seen in the video. But what I can say is
that Donna described an incredibly disturbing encounter between
family members. Even if she didnt have the video,
the claim alone would be enough to threaten those who were
in it.
And I guess now would be the time to share my thoughts on the idea that
Donna would secretly record situations or save
compromising videos in the first place. I won't
(24:53):
go into detail right now, but I have personal knowledge of two
other videos Donna claimed to have that were unrelated
to her death. Just like she claimed to Clay.
Those other videos were of several individuals in
compromising situations. The first involved an alleged
drug deal among prominent community members, which I've
never seen. The other involved one of her
(25:13):
exes, and I know for a fact that one
existed. I share this with you because as
crazy as the allegation sounds, Donna did have
a history of collecting information, just like Demmie
alluded to at the end of episode one.
>> Demmie Rice (25:26):
Because let me tell you something.
On all the
cops.
And he wasn't afraid to use it.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:38):
If Donna did, in fact, have a video of Scott, I need
to know what was really on it. Because if there's anything I've
learned from this investigation, it's that everyone
embellishes what they know.
In the meantime, I was relentless with my outreach to
Clay. So far, he was the only person Donna
(26:00):
gave explicit details to about the video she claimed to
have. I tried calling him using a new number,
a local number, and to my surprise, he
answered.
>> Clay Arceneaux (26:15):
Hello?
>> Tucker Simmons (26:16):
Hey, Clay. This is Tucker Simmons. I think maybe Sherry told you
I might be calling.
>> Clay Arceneaux (26:20):
Yeah.
How are you, man?
>> Tucker Simmons (26:22):
Good, good. How are you?
>> Clay Arceneaux (26:24):
Just, working. Working today. Buddy, I'm all for
this, and I can lead you in some amazing
directions with this, but I'm still
a police officer.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:34):
We spoke off the record for about 30 minutes.
He apologized for blocking me and explained his skepticism,
given how the case had been fumbled so many times.
I m could tell he was caught off guard by how much I knew of the case
already. And he repeatedly expressed his happiness
that someone was looking into it.
A couple of days later, we met at a coffee shop in St.
(26:55):
Tammany Parish. I planned to record,
but once again, we agreed to be off the record.
In hindsight, I wish I had pressed the issue, but at the time,
I just needed more information, and I wanted to make sure he felt
comfortable. After all, this was the first time we met.
Other than those traffic stops when I was in high school.
3 hours later, we had covered it all. Donna's
(27:15):
life, their marriage, their daughter, his
anger about how the case was handled and the allegations
that he was involved in Donna's death. He assured
me hed stay in touch and at a later date, do an on the record
interview for this podcast. We spoke
periodically about the case for over a year, but could
never coordinate the interview. Eventually,
after many unreturned calls and texts, I told Clay
(27:38):
we had to move on and that I would be reporting the unexplained
breakdown in communication. But four days
later, Clay agreed to the interview. He was
much more careful with his words and theories on the record, but his
opinions of the case and those involved were very
clear. As you'll hear, his daughter's name
has been censored.
>> Clay Arceneaux (27:56):
Just like any relationship, we had our ups and
downs, you know, and it was just one
of these. As time went on, we started growing
apart.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:06):
Were you physically violent against Donna during your marriage?
>> Clay Arceneaux (28:09):
There was no violence. Physical violence, like in your
relationship? We had our arguments, our ups and downs,
and then, the affair happened, and that's
what ultimately ended our relationship.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:21):
There was an incident where
she supposedly sent a photo of herself holding
a gun to her head to you, and she was then
admitted to Riverside and then subsequently sent
to a psych ward?
>> Clay Arceneaux (28:34):
Yes. I was actually sitting in my attorney's office when she sent the
photo. My heart dropped,
and I handed the phone to him and his paralegal,
and that's when that process got started.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:45):
When I reached out to Justin, see if
he remembered the photo, he said that it
wasn't in evidence because there was never an arrest.
So what would you say to people who claim that
the photo never existed and you were just trying to get custody
of?
>> Clay Arceneaux (29:01):
I would say that to refute all of that
is the order of protection. Would have never been handled without
said photo. It was not a power play to get.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:11):
I'm gonna read you really quick. What is
in the medical record. Patient reports.
Quote, my husband is doing all these things
because we are separated, and he is crazy. Patient
reports, physical abuse, emotional abuse,
threats of violence by spouse against patients.
What's your reaction to her quotes in the
(29:32):
medical records?
>> Clay Arceneaux (29:34):
I just think saying whatever they need to say to get out of
the situation she was in.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:40):
Interesting.
So, what was your relationship with Donna leading up to her
death, like, in the, few months leading up to
it?
>> Clay Arceneaux (29:48):
Surprisingly, and I've told you this before, in the many times
we've talked, we actually got along a lot better divorce than we
did the last few years of our marriage. We
talked and texted daily,
and we co parented very well.
But when the relationship she was in
took an extremely bad turn for the worse,
(30:08):
she would call me for advice, she would call me upset, she would
call me, and you could just tell she wanted
to talk, she wanted to vent.
And through that, we became closer and closer and
closer.
>> Tucker Simmons (30:22):
A couple people say that Donna would come over in the
last few months of her life, and she would sleep in her
car because she was terrified. And she would
tell them, if anything happens to me,
one of them did it. The implication is it was either
you or Scott. Is there any reason she would be
scared of you?
>> Clay Arceneaux (30:40):
No. No. But I do know about the sleeping in the
car. I do know about him
tracking her down wherever she went, because I witnessed it firsthand,
multiple times. And one night, she met
me at the shell station on
Pearl street, right next to the sheriff's office, just to talk and
catch up. And we were. I was on duty, and she
was talking to me for, like, 30 minutes. And he came flying
(31:03):
up, and she was like, yeah, he's got a tracker on my car. She
was convinced her phone was bugged,
and she had stated she'd found a recording device in her salon
under her desk. And when she'd come to
Florida, like you alluded to, she turned her phone totally
off. And she even told me, she's like, he will
track me down. Her
personal situation has become
(31:25):
stonewall and so violent
that it was a powder keg. I told
her, these things only get worse, and you need to get out of
there. She always said she had a
plan, but unfortunately, it
never, never came to light,
and we lost her.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:44):
Did she ever share with you what.
>> Clay Arceneaux (31:45):
That plan was
as her profession as a beautician in a small
town? she would always say that she
had, you know, she knew dirt on everyone.
She had some, quote, dirt on
him and that he was going to be gone
shortly. I think that was
a match that lit the fire.
(32:08):
So she was very,
very upfront with that. She knew the dirty little
secrets on a lot of people in that town.
>> Tucker Simmons (32:16):
Were any of them sheriff's deputies?
>> Clay Arceneaux (32:19):
there were some that were at the sheriff's office. Yes.
>> "Something Strange" by Tabitha Meeks (32:37):
I look close.
I see something
staring back at
me. No sound,
can't look it in light.
There's Something Strange in the air
tonight.
>> Tucker Simmons (33:02):
Well, that was a ton of new information. Let me
know what your theories are so far in episode five, we've got
the rest of my interview with Clay, plus a shocking turn of
events when my investigation is made public. Make
sure you follow rate and review on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify or wherever you're listening. It's a huge help in spreading the
word about Donna's case. Then head over to
freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on
(33:24):
the investigation and follow us on socials at Freeze
Framepod for exclusive content. Freeze frame
is a but why media production it's written and produced by
me, Tucker Simmons, editing and post
production by Evan Desonnier, narration by
Greg Geringer and Carrie Lauren. And our
original music is Something Strange by Tabitha
Meeks.
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