October 29, 2024 • 31 mins
Donna's brother TJ takes Tucker door-knocking to track down evidence Donna told him about years earlier, and they get a massive lead. After failed attempts to reach Captain Anderson, Tucker's meeting with Sheriff Randy Seal takes an interesting turn.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Narrator (00:01):
The claims, views, and opinions expressed are those of the speaker and
do not represent those of. But why media or its
partners. All subjects are innocent until proven
guilty. This is a podcast about
difficult topics, and it may not be suitable for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
>> Clay Arceneaux (00:30):
I became more and more frustrated with, how they were
handling it as well as the other detectives at
that agency. And I started speaking to
them. And then we all started seeing that we
were all on the same page, that this was not
a suicide.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (00:45):
But she told me if anything ever happened to her,
that a woman out there on 450 would have
an SD card. It had all the pictures and the videos
and everything on it.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (00:56):
Look, she was a beautiful woman.
It's just hard for me, you know? And, I don't
know, some of our, people think
it was a homicide. Some
of them thinks it was a suicide. My way
of managing people is let the people
that know what they're doing do their job and get out of the
(01:17):
way.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (01:25):
I'm feeling heavy. There's a pounding in
my chest. The shadows
hiding But I see the silhouettes.
Fear lives in the quiet.
Whispers in the silence.
>> Tucker Simmons (01:45):
I'm Tucker Simmons, and this is Freeze
Frame, an investigation into the unsolved
murder of Donna Arceneaux.
(02:08):
We left off in episode 4 with Clay's claims that Donna had
a damning video she considered using to save her home
and a lot of other dirty laundry involving employees of the
sheriff's office. I want to make clear again,
though, I have not seen these videos or heard
recordings, but I do know she had a history of
collecting information. Like I said before, the
claim alone, even if none of it existed, seems
(02:30):
serious enough to put her in harm's way. Clay
suggests it's all been destroyed, but I'm not accepting
that. In the meantime, I wanted to know more about
Clay's recollection of the night Donna was found and the
investigation.
(02:50):
What was your last conversation with Donna like?
>> Clay (02:54):
it was in the middle of the night. It was
late. I don't know exactly the time, but
she called me very upset.
the night, before she passed, she was
crying and sounded winded,
and first words out of her mouth was that she
loved me. And I was like, love you, too. Like, you know
what's going on. I know for certain. She'd
(03:17):
obviously just had an argument or a fight or something, because you
don't call in the middle of the night winded. and that emotion,
m. She'd never done that before. She never called me crying
like that, you know? She'd call me upset, pissed
off, but just crying. And I was
like, are you all right? And she said, I'll be fine. I'll
be fine. Not that I'm okay, but I'll be
fine.
>> Tucker Simmons (03:37):
In retrospect, was that her in
a depressed state, contemplating suicide,
or was that her just venting to you?
>> Clay (03:46):
That has been the turmoil for since this has
happened. Was that the last
call, or was that the huge fight
that led up to this?
>> Tucker Simmons (04:03):
Assuming this call did, in fact take place, Clay was
the last person to speak to Donna that I know of.
One of my theories is that Donna was killed long before this
call. But getting my hands on her phone records has
been difficult. And Clay no longer has access to his records
from 2017, but claims he did provide them
to state police. We shifted gears, and I wanted to know
(04:23):
more about the night Donna was found.
Were you on scene the night that she was found?
>> Clay (04:29):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I was woken up in the middle
of the night and notified at my house by a sergeant with the police
department. And Ellie was with me. So there
was no going anywhere. There was no going to the
scene. None of that. A bunch of people
started reaching out to me, but I never left because I knew
that I had to get my daughter to the worst news of her life when
(04:49):
she woke up.
>> Tucker Simmons (04:53):
Were you ever polygraphed?
>> Clay (04:55):
Yes, I was. That came about after this
had rocked on for weeks after her death,
and nothing had come up.
No. No one had hardly talked to me. No one had spoken
to me. And
I literally reached out to the sheriff's office and
was like, hey, I know my name's probably on a board
(05:16):
somewhere. We need to get this moving so
y'all can zero in on this. And that's when the whole they
started railroading with the suicide thing the entire
time. And so I
literally began pestering them. And then I was called in for a
polygraph.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:31):
Were you ever trained to pass a
polygraph?
>> Clay (05:36):
No. No.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:38):
Other than the polygraph, were you interrogated.
Or did you ever feel like you.
Were a suspect in an interview or.
>> Clay (05:44):
No, the few interactions I
had were by phone, I
believe. I came in, I talked to, a detective by the name of
Jimmy Seals. And then
as the case went on,
I became more and more frustrated with how they were
handling it as well as the other detectives at
that agency. And I started speaking to
(06:06):
them. And then we all started seeing that we
were all on the same page, that this was not
a suicide.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:13):
From your perspective, who should be held accountable
for the Shortcomings of the investigation.
>> Clay (06:19):
I think a lot of people need to be held accountable. They
ran with the narrative that they did everything they could
to control the narrative of this from the minute
it happened. I don't want to point my fingers at just one person
here, and I don't want to cast blame of
the entire incident on Tom Anderson. You know,
I think that's unfair to just point out one person.
(06:39):
A lot of people saw the institution as a whole not in
a good place. That's why
you're running the story you're running. That's why I am where I am. That's
why my child has no closure. Everyone
with a clear perspective who's looked at this has said the same thing.
How was this allowed to happen? How were there no
checks and balances in the process? Why did the
(07:00):
investigation have to be pushed
by outsiders to continue?
that's just my two cents on it. The institution
as a whole failed, and it failed Donna,
and it failed my daughter.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:16):
I'll be honest. I suspected Clay could have been involved
early on. But based on the information I have
today and many conversations with him for more than a
year, I feel comfortable moving on for now. And
that's exactly what I told him. Clay's biggest
revelation was the claim of a video in Donna's
possession. But locating it and confirming
if this was a possible motive wasn't going to be easy.
(07:38):
I called Donna's brother TJ to see what he knew.
He was hesitant, but didn't disappoint. I'll
reiterate, I do not have personal knowledge of the
incident. He details. This is his own recollection of
what happened.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (07:54):
I mean, if you want the truth, I mean, I ain't gonna sit here and lie to you, man.
I'm the type of guy, if I don't get asked, I don't get
no information. But if I get asked, then that
volunteers me that I gotta. I gotta. I gotta tell you, you
know, she had something
on another guy, and I hate to even bring his name up,
but in this case, every scenario needs
(08:15):
to be pulled up. Every stone
needs to be turned. You know what I mean? she called me up one
night, and she was panicking.
She said, T, she said, somebody is
at the edge of my woodline, she says, and they're
watching me. She said, I need to know if you can come over here.
And it's been different years and years ago. It's been years
(08:36):
back. So I get over there and,
I check it out, and you can actually see footprints where somebody had
been walking the edge of the woodline.
And I told her, I said, Donna, I said, what's going
on? And, she
looked at me and she said, I'd rather not tell you
because I'd rather not get you involved in it. I said, well,
(08:56):
you already got me involved in it because. Because you're my sister. So I
gotta. I mean, you know.
Anyway, she told me. She said, look, she says,
I got videotape of
me, going to the airport about
2:00 one morning.
And I said, what are y'all doing at the airport, 2:00 in the
(09:18):
morning? She said, well, she
said him and about five or six more was
unloading a bunch of cocaine off the airplane at
the – at the airport. She said, I got on video.
I said, oh, my God. I said, Donna, I said,
things like that get people killed. I said, you
need to not tell nobody about that.
(09:39):
And I told her, I said, Donna, I said,
ain't somebody you want to play with, and they're not.
And I said, that's probably the reason people's watching you right
now, to be honest with you.
But she told me if anything ever happened to her,
that a woman out there on 450 would have
an SD card, it had all the pictures and the videos
(10:02):
and everything on it. That we could get with her, and she would
have it.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:16):
Although this incident took place years before Donna's death,
maybe this same woman has other videos Donna gave her.
I was back in town a few weeks later, so TJ and I took a
ride out to Highway 450. He couldn't explain
where we were going, but he knew he'd recognize her road when
he saw it. We knocked on doors for a while with
no luck. And this is not for drama. The very
(10:36):
last house we stopped at was key.
(10:58):
Hey, boss. How's it going man?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (10:59):
Tim. Hey. We looking for a lady. Whos name is
[bleep].
>> Neighbor (11:02):
She lived at the end of this road.
She don't live there. I think she's been gone a while.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:08):
She's an older woman.
>> Neighbor (11:09):
Yeah.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (11:10):
She was it.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:10):
Yeah, I think she may have passed.
>> Neighbor (11:13):
Oh, did she?
>> Tucker Simmons (11:13):
She had two daughters.
That's the same person?
Yeah.
She had two daughters. Yeah.
>> Neighbor (11:18):
Yeah, yeah. And what did you say her last name
was?
>> Tucker Simmons (11:22):
Our conversation with her neighbor was brief, but he provided
the names and details we needed. Later that day,
I spoke to the woman's daughter. She confirmed Donna and her
mom were very close and that when they cleaned out her home,
they did find a safe. It's been several years,
and she couldn't remember SD cards or tapes
specifically, but assured me she would get in touch if she
(11:42):
found anything. My last option was
to locate the SD cards found in Donna's bedroom.
I've heard multiple stories about what happened to them and who
had them. I narrowed it down to Donna's son,
Brennan. He lives out of state, but put me in touch with
his grandma, his father's mom. He remembered having
a container of electronics stored at his grandma's
(12:03):
SD cards and possibly a hard drive included.
When I spoke to her, she was cordial and said investigators had
reviewed everything. She wouldn't commit to setting a
time for me to come by, and I got the sense she was getting
annoyed by my questions. Her parting words were that
she was just ready for all this to go away and move on for
Brennan's sake. I acknowledge how invasive what
(12:23):
I'm asking for must feel, but I'm still holding out hope that she'll
have a change of heart.
The most challenging part of this investigation has been getting
people to talk. Given the public's distrust of
(12:44):
law enforcement in Washington Parish for so long
after the newspaper came out claiming Donna committed
suicide, many people gave up and forgot about
it. Those involved in her death and those with
information have stayed silent, many of them out of
fear. I've made a ton of progress,
but tracking down key players who I believe know what happened to
Donna and convincing them to share what they knew just
(13:06):
wasn't working. It was becoming clear that they weren't going
to open up after all these years to some random guy poking
around. But having grown up there, I had no doubt in
my mind if we could get people's attention in a big
way, someone would talk. But in the last
few days of my anonymity, there were several people
I needed to approach one last time.
(13:27):
My first call was to the captain of the Louisiana State
Police Criminal Investigations Division. I was told by an
off the record source that Donna's case was, quote, on a
shelf with no assigned detective. So was
it?
>> Louisiana State Police Representative (13:40):
You know, we've got limited manpower
resources, and so, you know, a cold case
homicide, like this, you know, sometimes has to be put
on the lower priority list. But that's not
saying we're not continuing to investigate it.
So we have made progress. I've been
privy to this investigation from the time we
adopted it, and we had some different detectives look at
(14:02):
it. But, we took over the investigation from the sheriff's
department. A lot of things were done, not the
way we would have liked them to be done, just because that's their
protocol and not ours. But
we inherit investigations all the
time. Can't go back in time and change things.
So there was a lot of stuff we had to
redo and,
(14:24):
reinvestigate. So that's why it's been such a
timely endeavor.
>> Tucker Simmons (14:33):
I'm no expert, but I took that as a yes.
It was a lesser priority due to a lack of resources,
and that's not the fault of the captain himself, but it was
disheartening. Our call was brief, and
towards the end, he did say they were waiting on more data to come
in. I have to imagine after five years with state
police, they would have everything. But maybe not.
(14:53):
My next call was to Washington Parish sheriff Randy
Seal, who often goes by the nickname "country."
Sheriff Seal was elected assessor of Washington Parish in
1994. He held that office until he
was elected sheriff in 2012. My parents
and grandparents have known him for as long as I can remember.
I was a few years younger than his kids, but knew them
(15:14):
well. My brother dated his daughter at some point and
played baseball with his son. Our first call was, as you'd
expect, pretty normal.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (15:21):
Hey, Tucker.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:23):
Hey, Sheriff, how are you? This is Tucker Simmons. It's been a long time.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (15:26):
Hey, Tucker. Fine. How you doing?
>> Tucker Simmons (15:28):
I can't complain. I'm working on a project
about the murder of Donna Arceneaux. I was hoping to talk to you
about it. If you had some time sometime I could come in maybe or...
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (15:38):
Yeah, but you probably do better talk to,
my investigator because they know more about
it than I do.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:47):
Perfect.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (15:47):
You know, I'll be glad. Tell you what I know. But,
you know, we've had. We investigated. We
had state police look at
it, and
it's a tough, tough
case.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:04):
Do you remember who was lead on that case in
terms of investigating back then?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (16:11):
I don't know. It could have been, the guy
over investigations, which is –
he just retired.
Shoot, I'm having a senior moment
Tucker. Tom
Anderson.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:27):
Gotcha. Okay.
Oh, so he's retired now?
He doesn't. He doesn't work there anymore.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (16:31):
Yeah, he still
works for part time for
Gotcha. Well, he'll be glad
to talk to you about.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:42):
Yeah, I'd love to sit down with him and just kind of get
his version of what he saw
firsthand, because, you know, it's a
story that's close to home. You know, Donna was married to my uncle Bubba.
So when I had the opportunity to
take on a new project, this one was pretty
important,
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (17:00):
You know, it was a puzzling case. And,
you know, we do have a, where
she said she was going to commit
suicide. Look, she was a beautiful
woman. It's just hard for
me, you know? And, I don't know, some of
my people thinks it was a
homicide. Some of them
(17:22):
thinks it was a suicide.
My way of managing people and let
the people that know what they're doing do their job and get
out of the way. Have you been able to talk to
her boyfriend?
>> Tucker Simmons (17:35):
I haven't reached out to him yet. And that's, you know, sort
of strategic on my part. But, you know, I'll be
the first to admit, you know, Donna was definitely struggling with
depression and had used suicide as a
form of seeking attention, from what I'm told.
But, you know, it just. It doesn't sit right with me
that she was so. I mean, for lack of a better term, she was
(17:55):
so vain, and the way she looked
was everything to her. And I just don't see
how she would have shot herself in the
breast with no clothes on and not
left a note for her daughter. You know, just. There's so many things that
just don't add up, so I'm just curious. I'm sure there's a
lot that I don't know.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (18:15):
You, want me to. I'll give you Tom
Anderson number, and you can
reach out to him and of course, Tom know you gonna be calling
Tucker
>> Tucker Simmons (18:24):
Yeah, if you don't mind. Yeah, that'd be great.
>> Neighbor (18:28):
All right, hold on.
515 [bleep]
>> Tucker Simmons (18:33):
Perfect.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (18:35):
335
[bleep] And let me give you
his house number 'cause he lives in the country. You'll probably have
better luck on the house number.
Eight, four, eight [bleep]
>> Tucker Simmons (18:51):
Perfect.
Got them all.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (18:53):
Yeah. Okay, buddy. Good to hear
from you.
>> Tucker Simmons (18:56):
You too. Have a great weekend.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (18:59):
Bye Bye.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:01):
I didn't expect the sheriff to remember all the case
details, so I appreciated him giving me Captain Anderson's
numbers. And you guessed it, he was my next
call. [dial tones]
[phone ringing]
>> Tom Anderson's Voice Mail (19:15):
Leave a message. I'll call you right back. Thank you.
At the tone, please record your message. When you've finished
recording, you may hang up or press 1 for more
options. [tone]
>> Tucker Simmons (19:24):
Hey, Tom, this is Tucker Simmons calling. I just got off the phone
with the sheriff and just wanted to chat with you real quick.
I'm working on a story, and, the sheriff thought I should
give you a call since you were chief investigator at the time of the
incident. You can give me a ring back here. Thanks so much.
The next day, I tried again.
>> Tom Anderson's Voice Mail (19:42):
Your call has been forwarded to an automated voice
messaging system. Tom Anderson is
not available. The mailbox is full and cannot accept
any messages at this time. Goodbye.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:53):
A week later, I tried again.
[phone ringing]
>> Tom Anderson (20:00):
Hello? Who is this?
>> Tucker Simmons (20:03):
Hi there. I'm calling for Tom Anderson. This is Tucker.
Oh, did I lose you? Before hanging up
on me again, the muffled audio sounded a lot like
"it's that fucking journalist calling again."
I was in town at the time, so I called Sheriff
Seal back and asked to meet.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:21):
Hello, How are you? You can come in.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:23):
I just got off the phone with the Sheriff. He told me to come
in and see him.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:27):
What's your name?
>> Tucker Simmons (20:28):
Tucker.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:29):
You said Tucker, what?
>> Tucker Simmons (20:30):
Tucker Simmons.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:31):
Oh, okay.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:32):
Yes, ma'am.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:34):
Okay, Come on in.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:35):
Thank you.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:36):
You're welcome.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (20:37):
Hey, Tucker. How you doing, son?
>> Tucker Simmons (20:39):
Good.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (20:40):
Sit down here.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:41):
We sat at the conference table in the middle of his office, which was
full of accolades from throughout his career. His desk
was stacked with obituaries waiting to be laminated.
Sheriff Seale's bookmark style obituaries have become a
staple when a resident passes away. I think he even
hand delivered a stack to Meemee, my grandma, who you heard from
in episode one, when my grandfather passed away a couple
(21:01):
years ago. We had spoken on the phone twice and ran
into each other at several campaign forums throughout Washington
Parish. But this was our first time meeting about Donna's
case.
I'm perplexed and I just want to get your thoughts honestly.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (21:15):
Alright.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:16):
In general, do investigators accept the
findings of an autopsy? If the coroner's office
rules homicide or suicide. Is that typically what's accepted?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (21:24):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:27):
So on October 23, Donna's body
was found. On the 24th, most the
investigation took place. The 25th was the autopsy in
Saint Tammany. The pathologist
found homicide in his autopsy, but then
on the 26th, he
wanted to see the scene because Tom was telling him that it
was suicide. And the pathologist said,
(21:50):
no, her body shows homicide. It's
highly unusual for him to come to Washington Parish, but you
guys accommodated. Everyone knew why he was coming.
So what I don't really understand is
why then three months later in February, did
the department give a statement to the air leader saying
that it was officially a suicide?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (22:11):
I don't know. That talked Chief Haley about
that.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:15):
Because if it was just a mistake, I would imagine
you guys would have corrected the record, right?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (22:19):
Of course we want the truth.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:22):
From what the family says, they reached out to the ear leader and you guys
saying, what the hell? Where did this, you know, the
statement come from? They didn't really get much of a response,
and the Era Leader told them without something new from
you guys, that they couldn't release
a correction. So factually,
it was never ruled a suicide. So I'm
(22:43):
sure you can understand why the family feels
like whether it was a cover up or
Tom had a lapse of judgment or
something.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (22:51):
But. What. What family are you talking about?
>> Tucker Simmons (22:53):
Donna's, family.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (22:54):
Oh.
As in on her side, the family,
or...
>> Tucker Simmons (23:00):
I mean, I've spoken to just about all of them.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (23:03):
Okay.
>> Tucker Simmons (23:04):
They, just want to know why that statement was
released, and then interest in the case just went away. Because
you guys were actively investigating it as a homicide
when that statement was released to the newspaper. It's
confusing, right?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (23:17):
Yeah, it is. you know, of course, I let my people do their
job. And I, do
know that they worked real, real hard on that case,
but other than that, you know, I can't
go into any of that.
And look, I know that family. They're good people,
and, they're my friends,
(23:39):
and they know me very, very well and have a lot
of confidence that we're going to do the right thing.
>> Tucker Simmons (23:44):
Their perception is it wasn't handled
properly. And it wasn't until
they threatened to go public that your
department handed over to the state police.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (23:55):
If that's true. I don't know that to be true.
>> Tucker Simmons (23:58):
So when we first spoke, you kind
of alluded the ruling. The autopsy said homicide, but
the detective still questioned it. And then at the there in Franklinton
women's forum, you mentioned the one unsolved murder. I
assume you were talking about Donna.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (24:11):
Yeah.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:12):
So is it.
Do you now agree with the autopsy that it is
homicide?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (24:16):
I. I don't know which it
is. I don't know.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:21):
The problem with the only, with it being the only one that's unsolved. I
mean, I guess that's debatable, but it's the one with the
most questionable circumstances around it. Because there
was so much controversy, did you ever go to Tom or anyone and say,
like, what the hell's going on? Like, let me see for myself.
>> Neighbor (24:36):
I let my investigators do their job. Ah.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:38):
Have you ever seen the crime scene photos?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (24:40):
No.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:41):
I think you would be surprised that anyone believed it was
suicide if you saw those.
I mean, we've spoken to independent investigators to get
a third party opinion, and not a single one sees
those photos and thinks this is a suicide.
Whether it's a cover up or not or just a hard case to
solve. What would your response be to
(25:02):
people who suggest that, yes, you hire people that are capable,
but you should make sure that those people are
operating in an ethical manner?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (25:10):
Well, they better be. I hadn't
stayed in office for 30 years to
have a dark heart.
I do know, I'm smart enough to know that
the buck stops here because I am the
sheriff. There might have been some poor
police work, there may have been some
mistake, I don't know. But
(25:32):
I don't like it was done on purpose.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:37):
The elected chief law enforcement officer in the Parish
never thought to look at one of the most, if not the most
controversial cases in his Parish. Even if
for political reasons or his own self preservation.
Whatever the motive, why not get eyes on it?
I knew going in Sheriff Seal wouldn't share details of the
case. But I have to say I definitely didn't
expect his reasoning to be that he just "didn't know."
(26:03):
Before we wrapped up, I wanted to address rumors that Sheriff
Seal was very unhappy with me and had suggested
internally that my investigation was a political
stunt. For the record, there are much
easier and more effective ways to harm a political campaign,
if that's your thing. Trying to solve your aunt's murder ain't
on the list. One alleged comment that got back to me was
pretty vulgar, but I couldn't resist asking.
(26:25):
People tell me that you're very unhappy with me. And I
can understand,
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:29):
Why have that [inaudible]
>> Tucker Simmons (26:30):
but I don't. But someone.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:32):
[inaudible]
>> Tucker Simmons (26:34):
Well, someone also told me, that. That you made the comment that
my dad should have jerked off in an ant bed.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:40):
I've never said that. But we
love the Moseleys.
You know, heck, Lee dated you first
cousin.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:50):
I think Adam dated Sarah too.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:52):
Yeah, probably.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:53):
For a little while. Yeah.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:54):
Well, you do know it's election year though.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:57):
Yeah. Yeah, I noticed that.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:00):
Remember that about – people say things
that are doing nothing but trying to make a
hurt. People tell lies in an
election to hurt one candidate
or the other. Look, I'm the sheriff and
I understand that. You know, ain't nobody sitting here
but me, and, and there's three guys that want
(27:20):
it. One of them just don't want me to have it
Young man, that's the
oldest trick in politics is trying to cross
friends up. I've never made a statement like
that. I have never said that about you.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:35):
Have you said that statement before, though?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:36):
Go ask the guy told you that. Asked him if I've
ever said it before. And there's your answer. All
right, Excellent.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:44):
Well, I appreciate it.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:45):
All right, buddy. Nice seeing you again. You too.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:48):
I'll see you around.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:49):
All right. I'm sorry you were told that, but that's just
not so. Hey, it's politics, man.
Politics.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:55):
See, a lot worse things have been said anyway.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:58):
Hell on me. I chase women. You know, I wouldn't do
anything like.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:01):
That maybe in your old days, huh?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (28:04):
All right, buddy. Have a good one.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:05):
You too.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (28:06):
Thank you.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:08):
I don't know what to make of it and I don't really care, but I
have to say, as one liners go, that's pretty damn funny.
I left the meeting with mixed emotions. On one hand, I was
grateful for the sheriff's time and the acknowledgement of his hands off
approach, which explained a lot. But frankly,
I was pissed off. Catching Donna's killer is most
(28:28):
important. But if even a fraction of the allegations against the
initial investigation are true, the citizens of Washington
Parish deserve accountability. The sheriff has
had years to look at the case and perform a review of
his employees. He acknowledged the possibility of
poor police work. So why a review hasn't happened after
all this time and constant speculation –
(28:48):
is beyond me.
As I was leaving, I saw my brother pass by the sheriff's
office. It was time to go straight to the source.
[phone ringing]
Yo, what's up?
>> Tucker's brother (29:02):
Yeah, just got off work, headed to the house.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:04):
I just left a meeting with Randy. And
there weren't very many details.
>> Tucker's brother (29:09):
Oh wow.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:10):
So, Tom. Yeah, since Tom won't answer the phone,
you want to ride out there with me and knock on his door?
>> Tucker's brother (29:15):
Hell yeah. Meet me. Meet me at the house. I'll ride.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:18):
All right, cool. I'm pulling out now, so I'll be right behind
you.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (29:51):
There's Something Strange in the air
tonight.
>> Tucker Simmons (30:02):
I hope you enjoyed episode five. There's a whole lot more to
come as my investigation unravels. In episode
six, my brother and I take that drive to Tom's and
we finally go public in a big way. I'll see you
then. Make sure you follow rate and review on
Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening. It's a
huge help in spreading the word about Donna's case. Then head over to
freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on
(30:24):
the investigation and follow us on socials at Freeze
Frame Pod for exclusive content. Freeze
Frame is a But Why Media production. It's written and
produced by me, Tucker Simmons, editing and
post production by Evan Dezonier, narration
by Greg Gehringer and Kerry Lauren and our
original music is Something Strange by Tabitha
Meeks.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (30:55):
Something strange,
Something strange.
You can't hide forever.
The claims, views, and opinions expressed are those of the speaker and
do not represent those of. But why media or its
partners. All subjects are innocent until proven
guilty. This is a podcast about
difficult topics, and it may not be suitable for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
>> Clay Arceneaux (00:30):
I became more and more frustrated with, how they were
handling it as well as the other detectives at
that agency. And I started speaking to
them. And then we all started seeing that we
were all on the same page, that this was not
a suicide.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (00:45):
But she told me if anything ever happened to her,
that a woman out there on 450 would have
an SD card. It had all the pictures and the videos
and everything on it.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (00:56):
Look, she was a beautiful woman.
It's just hard for me, you know? And, I don't
know, some of our, people think
it was a homicide. Some
of them thinks it was a suicide. My way
of managing people is let the people
that know what they're doing do their job and get out of the
(01:17):
way.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (01:25):
I'm feeling heavy. There's a pounding in
my chest. The shadows
hiding But I see the silhouettes.
Fear lives in the quiet.
Whispers in the silence.
>> Tucker Simmons (01:45):
I'm Tucker Simmons, and this is Freeze
Frame, an investigation into the unsolved
murder of Donna Arceneaux.
(02:08):
We left off in episode 4 with Clay's claims that Donna had
a damning video she considered using to save her home
and a lot of other dirty laundry involving employees of the
sheriff's office. I want to make clear again,
though, I have not seen these videos or heard
recordings, but I do know she had a history of
collecting information. Like I said before, the
claim alone, even if none of it existed, seems
(02:30):
serious enough to put her in harm's way. Clay
suggests it's all been destroyed, but I'm not accepting
that. In the meantime, I wanted to know more about
Clay's recollection of the night Donna was found and the
investigation.
(02:50):
What was your last conversation with Donna like?
>> Clay (02:54):
it was in the middle of the night. It was
late. I don't know exactly the time, but
she called me very upset.
the night, before she passed, she was
crying and sounded winded,
and first words out of her mouth was that she
loved me. And I was like, love you, too. Like, you know
what's going on. I know for certain. She'd
(03:17):
obviously just had an argument or a fight or something, because you
don't call in the middle of the night winded. and that emotion,
m. She'd never done that before. She never called me crying
like that, you know? She'd call me upset, pissed
off, but just crying. And I was
like, are you all right? And she said, I'll be fine. I'll
be fine. Not that I'm okay, but I'll be
fine.
>> Tucker Simmons (03:37):
In retrospect, was that her in
a depressed state, contemplating suicide,
or was that her just venting to you?
>> Clay (03:46):
That has been the turmoil for since this has
happened. Was that the last
call, or was that the huge fight
that led up to this?
>> Tucker Simmons (04:03):
Assuming this call did, in fact take place, Clay was
the last person to speak to Donna that I know of.
One of my theories is that Donna was killed long before this
call. But getting my hands on her phone records has
been difficult. And Clay no longer has access to his records
from 2017, but claims he did provide them
to state police. We shifted gears, and I wanted to know
(04:23):
more about the night Donna was found.
Were you on scene the night that she was found?
>> Clay (04:29):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I was woken up in the middle
of the night and notified at my house by a sergeant with the police
department. And Ellie was with me. So there
was no going anywhere. There was no going to the
scene. None of that. A bunch of people
started reaching out to me, but I never left because I knew
that I had to get my daughter to the worst news of her life when
(04:49):
she woke up.
>> Tucker Simmons (04:53):
Were you ever polygraphed?
>> Clay (04:55):
Yes, I was. That came about after this
had rocked on for weeks after her death,
and nothing had come up.
No. No one had hardly talked to me. No one had spoken
to me. And
I literally reached out to the sheriff's office and
was like, hey, I know my name's probably on a board
(05:16):
somewhere. We need to get this moving so
y'all can zero in on this. And that's when the whole they
started railroading with the suicide thing the entire
time. And so I
literally began pestering them. And then I was called in for a
polygraph.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:31):
Were you ever trained to pass a
polygraph?
>> Clay (05:36):
No. No.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:38):
Other than the polygraph, were you interrogated.
Or did you ever feel like you.
Were a suspect in an interview or.
>> Clay (05:44):
No, the few interactions I
had were by phone, I
believe. I came in, I talked to, a detective by the name of
Jimmy Seals. And then
as the case went on,
I became more and more frustrated with how they were
handling it as well as the other detectives at
that agency. And I started speaking to
(06:06):
them. And then we all started seeing that we
were all on the same page, that this was not
a suicide.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:13):
From your perspective, who should be held accountable
for the Shortcomings of the investigation.
>> Clay (06:19):
I think a lot of people need to be held accountable. They
ran with the narrative that they did everything they could
to control the narrative of this from the minute
it happened. I don't want to point my fingers at just one person
here, and I don't want to cast blame of
the entire incident on Tom Anderson. You know,
I think that's unfair to just point out one person.
(06:39):
A lot of people saw the institution as a whole not in
a good place. That's why
you're running the story you're running. That's why I am where I am. That's
why my child has no closure. Everyone
with a clear perspective who's looked at this has said the same thing.
How was this allowed to happen? How were there no
checks and balances in the process? Why did the
(07:00):
investigation have to be pushed
by outsiders to continue?
that's just my two cents on it. The institution
as a whole failed, and it failed Donna,
and it failed my daughter.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:16):
I'll be honest. I suspected Clay could have been involved
early on. But based on the information I have
today and many conversations with him for more than a
year, I feel comfortable moving on for now. And
that's exactly what I told him. Clay's biggest
revelation was the claim of a video in Donna's
possession. But locating it and confirming
if this was a possible motive wasn't going to be easy.
(07:38):
I called Donna's brother TJ to see what he knew.
He was hesitant, but didn't disappoint. I'll
reiterate, I do not have personal knowledge of the
incident. He details. This is his own recollection of
what happened.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (07:54):
I mean, if you want the truth, I mean, I ain't gonna sit here and lie to you, man.
I'm the type of guy, if I don't get asked, I don't get
no information. But if I get asked, then that
volunteers me that I gotta. I gotta. I gotta tell you, you
know, she had something
on another guy, and I hate to even bring his name up,
but in this case, every scenario needs
(08:15):
to be pulled up. Every stone
needs to be turned. You know what I mean? she called me up one
night, and she was panicking.
She said, T, she said, somebody is
at the edge of my woodline, she says, and they're
watching me. She said, I need to know if you can come over here.
And it's been different years and years ago. It's been years
(08:36):
back. So I get over there and,
I check it out, and you can actually see footprints where somebody had
been walking the edge of the woodline.
And I told her, I said, Donna, I said, what's going
on? And, she
looked at me and she said, I'd rather not tell you
because I'd rather not get you involved in it. I said, well,
(08:56):
you already got me involved in it because. Because you're my sister. So I
gotta. I mean, you know.
Anyway, she told me. She said, look, she says,
I got videotape of
me, going to the airport about
2:00 one morning.
And I said, what are y'all doing at the airport, 2:00 in the
(09:18):
morning? She said, well, she
said him and about five or six more was
unloading a bunch of cocaine off the airplane at
the – at the airport. She said, I got on video.
I said, oh, my God. I said, Donna, I said,
things like that get people killed. I said, you
need to not tell nobody about that.
(09:39):
And I told her, I said, Donna, I said,
ain't somebody you want to play with, and they're not.
And I said, that's probably the reason people's watching you right
now, to be honest with you.
But she told me if anything ever happened to her,
that a woman out there on 450 would have
an SD card, it had all the pictures and the videos
(10:02):
and everything on it. That we could get with her, and she would
have it.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:16):
Although this incident took place years before Donna's death,
maybe this same woman has other videos Donna gave her.
I was back in town a few weeks later, so TJ and I took a
ride out to Highway 450. He couldn't explain
where we were going, but he knew he'd recognize her road when
he saw it. We knocked on doors for a while with
no luck. And this is not for drama. The very
(10:36):
last house we stopped at was key.
(10:58):
Hey, boss. How's it going man?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (10:59):
Tim. Hey. We looking for a lady. Whos name is
[bleep].
>> Neighbor (11:02):
She lived at the end of this road.
She don't live there. I think she's been gone a while.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:08):
She's an older woman.
>> Neighbor (11:09):
Yeah.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (11:10):
She was it.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:10):
Yeah, I think she may have passed.
>> Neighbor (11:13):
Oh, did she?
>> Tucker Simmons (11:13):
She had two daughters.
That's the same person?
Yeah.
She had two daughters. Yeah.
>> Neighbor (11:18):
Yeah, yeah. And what did you say her last name
was?
>> Tucker Simmons (11:22):
Our conversation with her neighbor was brief, but he provided
the names and details we needed. Later that day,
I spoke to the woman's daughter. She confirmed Donna and her
mom were very close and that when they cleaned out her home,
they did find a safe. It's been several years,
and she couldn't remember SD cards or tapes
specifically, but assured me she would get in touch if she
(11:42):
found anything. My last option was
to locate the SD cards found in Donna's bedroom.
I've heard multiple stories about what happened to them and who
had them. I narrowed it down to Donna's son,
Brennan. He lives out of state, but put me in touch with
his grandma, his father's mom. He remembered having
a container of electronics stored at his grandma's
(12:03):
SD cards and possibly a hard drive included.
When I spoke to her, she was cordial and said investigators had
reviewed everything. She wouldn't commit to setting a
time for me to come by, and I got the sense she was getting
annoyed by my questions. Her parting words were that
she was just ready for all this to go away and move on for
Brennan's sake. I acknowledge how invasive what
(12:23):
I'm asking for must feel, but I'm still holding out hope that she'll
have a change of heart.
The most challenging part of this investigation has been getting
people to talk. Given the public's distrust of
(12:44):
law enforcement in Washington Parish for so long
after the newspaper came out claiming Donna committed
suicide, many people gave up and forgot about
it. Those involved in her death and those with
information have stayed silent, many of them out of
fear. I've made a ton of progress,
but tracking down key players who I believe know what happened to
Donna and convincing them to share what they knew just
(13:06):
wasn't working. It was becoming clear that they weren't going
to open up after all these years to some random guy poking
around. But having grown up there, I had no doubt in
my mind if we could get people's attention in a big
way, someone would talk. But in the last
few days of my anonymity, there were several people
I needed to approach one last time.
(13:27):
My first call was to the captain of the Louisiana State
Police Criminal Investigations Division. I was told by an
off the record source that Donna's case was, quote, on a
shelf with no assigned detective. So was
it?
>> Louisiana State Police Representative (13:40):
You know, we've got limited manpower
resources, and so, you know, a cold case
homicide, like this, you know, sometimes has to be put
on the lower priority list. But that's not
saying we're not continuing to investigate it.
So we have made progress. I've been
privy to this investigation from the time we
adopted it, and we had some different detectives look at
(14:02):
it. But, we took over the investigation from the sheriff's
department. A lot of things were done, not the
way we would have liked them to be done, just because that's their
protocol and not ours. But
we inherit investigations all the
time. Can't go back in time and change things.
So there was a lot of stuff we had to
redo and,
(14:24):
reinvestigate. So that's why it's been such a
timely endeavor.
>> Tucker Simmons (14:33):
I'm no expert, but I took that as a yes.
It was a lesser priority due to a lack of resources,
and that's not the fault of the captain himself, but it was
disheartening. Our call was brief, and
towards the end, he did say they were waiting on more data to come
in. I have to imagine after five years with state
police, they would have everything. But maybe not.
(14:53):
My next call was to Washington Parish sheriff Randy
Seal, who often goes by the nickname "country."
Sheriff Seal was elected assessor of Washington Parish in
1994. He held that office until he
was elected sheriff in 2012. My parents
and grandparents have known him for as long as I can remember.
I was a few years younger than his kids, but knew them
(15:14):
well. My brother dated his daughter at some point and
played baseball with his son. Our first call was, as you'd
expect, pretty normal.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (15:21):
Hey, Tucker.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:23):
Hey, Sheriff, how are you? This is Tucker Simmons. It's been a long time.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (15:26):
Hey, Tucker. Fine. How you doing?
>> Tucker Simmons (15:28):
I can't complain. I'm working on a project
about the murder of Donna Arceneaux. I was hoping to talk to you
about it. If you had some time sometime I could come in maybe or...
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (15:38):
Yeah, but you probably do better talk to,
my investigator because they know more about
it than I do.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:47):
Perfect.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (15:47):
You know, I'll be glad. Tell you what I know. But,
you know, we've had. We investigated. We
had state police look at
it, and
it's a tough, tough
case.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:04):
Do you remember who was lead on that case in
terms of investigating back then?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (16:11):
I don't know. It could have been, the guy
over investigations, which is –
he just retired.
Shoot, I'm having a senior moment
Tucker. Tom
Anderson.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:27):
Gotcha. Okay.
Oh, so he's retired now?
He doesn't. He doesn't work there anymore.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (16:31):
Yeah, he still
works for part time for
Gotcha. Well, he'll be glad
to talk to you about.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:42):
Yeah, I'd love to sit down with him and just kind of get
his version of what he saw
firsthand, because, you know, it's a
story that's close to home. You know, Donna was married to my uncle Bubba.
So when I had the opportunity to
take on a new project, this one was pretty
important,
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (17:00):
You know, it was a puzzling case. And,
you know, we do have a, where
she said she was going to commit
suicide. Look, she was a beautiful
woman. It's just hard for
me, you know? And, I don't know, some of
my people thinks it was a
homicide. Some of them
(17:22):
thinks it was a suicide.
My way of managing people and let
the people that know what they're doing do their job and get
out of the way. Have you been able to talk to
her boyfriend?
>> Tucker Simmons (17:35):
I haven't reached out to him yet. And that's, you know, sort
of strategic on my part. But, you know, I'll be
the first to admit, you know, Donna was definitely struggling with
depression and had used suicide as a
form of seeking attention, from what I'm told.
But, you know, it just. It doesn't sit right with me
that she was so. I mean, for lack of a better term, she was
(17:55):
so vain, and the way she looked
was everything to her. And I just don't see
how she would have shot herself in the
breast with no clothes on and not
left a note for her daughter. You know, just. There's so many things that
just don't add up, so I'm just curious. I'm sure there's a
lot that I don't know.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (18:15):
You, want me to. I'll give you Tom
Anderson number, and you can
reach out to him and of course, Tom know you gonna be calling
Tucker
>> Tucker Simmons (18:24):
Yeah, if you don't mind. Yeah, that'd be great.
>> Neighbor (18:28):
All right, hold on.
515 [bleep]
>> Tucker Simmons (18:33):
Perfect.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (18:35):
335
[bleep] And let me give you
his house number 'cause he lives in the country. You'll probably have
better luck on the house number.
Eight, four, eight [bleep]
>> Tucker Simmons (18:51):
Perfect.
Got them all.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (18:53):
Yeah. Okay, buddy. Good to hear
from you.
>> Tucker Simmons (18:56):
You too. Have a great weekend.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (18:59):
Bye Bye.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:01):
I didn't expect the sheriff to remember all the case
details, so I appreciated him giving me Captain Anderson's
numbers. And you guessed it, he was my next
call. [dial tones]
[phone ringing]
>> Tom Anderson's Voice Mail (19:15):
Leave a message. I'll call you right back. Thank you.
At the tone, please record your message. When you've finished
recording, you may hang up or press 1 for more
options. [tone]
>> Tucker Simmons (19:24):
Hey, Tom, this is Tucker Simmons calling. I just got off the phone
with the sheriff and just wanted to chat with you real quick.
I'm working on a story, and, the sheriff thought I should
give you a call since you were chief investigator at the time of the
incident. You can give me a ring back here. Thanks so much.
The next day, I tried again.
>> Tom Anderson's Voice Mail (19:42):
Your call has been forwarded to an automated voice
messaging system. Tom Anderson is
not available. The mailbox is full and cannot accept
any messages at this time. Goodbye.
>> Tucker Simmons (19:53):
A week later, I tried again.
[phone ringing]
>> Tom Anderson (20:00):
Hello? Who is this?
>> Tucker Simmons (20:03):
Hi there. I'm calling for Tom Anderson. This is Tucker.
Oh, did I lose you? Before hanging up
on me again, the muffled audio sounded a lot like
"it's that fucking journalist calling again."
I was in town at the time, so I called Sheriff
Seal back and asked to meet.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:21):
Hello, How are you? You can come in.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:23):
I just got off the phone with the Sheriff. He told me to come
in and see him.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:27):
What's your name?
>> Tucker Simmons (20:28):
Tucker.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:29):
You said Tucker, what?
>> Tucker Simmons (20:30):
Tucker Simmons.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:31):
Oh, okay.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:32):
Yes, ma'am.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:34):
Okay, Come on in.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:35):
Thank you.
>> WPSO Receptionist (20:36):
You're welcome.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (20:37):
Hey, Tucker. How you doing, son?
>> Tucker Simmons (20:39):
Good.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (20:40):
Sit down here.
>> Tucker Simmons (20:41):
We sat at the conference table in the middle of his office, which was
full of accolades from throughout his career. His desk
was stacked with obituaries waiting to be laminated.
Sheriff Seale's bookmark style obituaries have become a
staple when a resident passes away. I think he even
hand delivered a stack to Meemee, my grandma, who you heard from
in episode one, when my grandfather passed away a couple
(21:01):
years ago. We had spoken on the phone twice and ran
into each other at several campaign forums throughout Washington
Parish. But this was our first time meeting about Donna's
case.
I'm perplexed and I just want to get your thoughts honestly.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (21:15):
Alright.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:16):
In general, do investigators accept the
findings of an autopsy? If the coroner's office
rules homicide or suicide. Is that typically what's accepted?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (21:24):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:27):
So on October 23, Donna's body
was found. On the 24th, most the
investigation took place. The 25th was the autopsy in
Saint Tammany. The pathologist
found homicide in his autopsy, but then
on the 26th, he
wanted to see the scene because Tom was telling him that it
was suicide. And the pathologist said,
(21:50):
no, her body shows homicide. It's
highly unusual for him to come to Washington Parish, but you
guys accommodated. Everyone knew why he was coming.
So what I don't really understand is
why then three months later in February, did
the department give a statement to the air leader saying
that it was officially a suicide?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (22:11):
I don't know. That talked Chief Haley about
that.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:15):
Because if it was just a mistake, I would imagine
you guys would have corrected the record, right?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (22:19):
Of course we want the truth.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:22):
From what the family says, they reached out to the ear leader and you guys
saying, what the hell? Where did this, you know, the
statement come from? They didn't really get much of a response,
and the Era Leader told them without something new from
you guys, that they couldn't release
a correction. So factually,
it was never ruled a suicide. So I'm
(22:43):
sure you can understand why the family feels
like whether it was a cover up or
Tom had a lapse of judgment or
something.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (22:51):
But. What. What family are you talking about?
>> Tucker Simmons (22:53):
Donna's, family.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (22:54):
Oh.
As in on her side, the family,
or...
>> Tucker Simmons (23:00):
I mean, I've spoken to just about all of them.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (23:03):
Okay.
>> Tucker Simmons (23:04):
They, just want to know why that statement was
released, and then interest in the case just went away. Because
you guys were actively investigating it as a homicide
when that statement was released to the newspaper. It's
confusing, right?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (23:17):
Yeah, it is. you know, of course, I let my people do their
job. And I, do
know that they worked real, real hard on that case,
but other than that, you know, I can't
go into any of that.
And look, I know that family. They're good people,
and, they're my friends,
(23:39):
and they know me very, very well and have a lot
of confidence that we're going to do the right thing.
>> Tucker Simmons (23:44):
Their perception is it wasn't handled
properly. And it wasn't until
they threatened to go public that your
department handed over to the state police.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (23:55):
If that's true. I don't know that to be true.
>> Tucker Simmons (23:58):
So when we first spoke, you kind
of alluded the ruling. The autopsy said homicide, but
the detective still questioned it. And then at the there in Franklinton
women's forum, you mentioned the one unsolved murder. I
assume you were talking about Donna.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (24:11):
Yeah.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:12):
So is it.
Do you now agree with the autopsy that it is
homicide?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (24:16):
I. I don't know which it
is. I don't know.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:21):
The problem with the only, with it being the only one that's unsolved. I
mean, I guess that's debatable, but it's the one with the
most questionable circumstances around it. Because there
was so much controversy, did you ever go to Tom or anyone and say,
like, what the hell's going on? Like, let me see for myself.
>> Neighbor (24:36):
I let my investigators do their job. Ah.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:38):
Have you ever seen the crime scene photos?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (24:40):
No.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:41):
I think you would be surprised that anyone believed it was
suicide if you saw those.
I mean, we've spoken to independent investigators to get
a third party opinion, and not a single one sees
those photos and thinks this is a suicide.
Whether it's a cover up or not or just a hard case to
solve. What would your response be to
(25:02):
people who suggest that, yes, you hire people that are capable,
but you should make sure that those people are
operating in an ethical manner?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (25:10):
Well, they better be. I hadn't
stayed in office for 30 years to
have a dark heart.
I do know, I'm smart enough to know that
the buck stops here because I am the
sheriff. There might have been some poor
police work, there may have been some
mistake, I don't know. But
(25:32):
I don't like it was done on purpose.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:37):
The elected chief law enforcement officer in the Parish
never thought to look at one of the most, if not the most
controversial cases in his Parish. Even if
for political reasons or his own self preservation.
Whatever the motive, why not get eyes on it?
I knew going in Sheriff Seal wouldn't share details of the
case. But I have to say I definitely didn't
expect his reasoning to be that he just "didn't know."
(26:03):
Before we wrapped up, I wanted to address rumors that Sheriff
Seal was very unhappy with me and had suggested
internally that my investigation was a political
stunt. For the record, there are much
easier and more effective ways to harm a political campaign,
if that's your thing. Trying to solve your aunt's murder ain't
on the list. One alleged comment that got back to me was
pretty vulgar, but I couldn't resist asking.
(26:25):
People tell me that you're very unhappy with me. And I
can understand,
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:29):
Why have that [inaudible]
>> Tucker Simmons (26:30):
but I don't. But someone.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:32):
[inaudible]
>> Tucker Simmons (26:34):
Well, someone also told me, that. That you made the comment that
my dad should have jerked off in an ant bed.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:40):
I've never said that. But we
love the Moseleys.
You know, heck, Lee dated you first
cousin.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:50):
I think Adam dated Sarah too.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:52):
Yeah, probably.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:53):
For a little while. Yeah.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (26:54):
Well, you do know it's election year though.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:57):
Yeah. Yeah, I noticed that.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:00):
Remember that about – people say things
that are doing nothing but trying to make a
hurt. People tell lies in an
election to hurt one candidate
or the other. Look, I'm the sheriff and
I understand that. You know, ain't nobody sitting here
but me, and, and there's three guys that want
(27:20):
it. One of them just don't want me to have it
Young man, that's the
oldest trick in politics is trying to cross
friends up. I've never made a statement like
that. I have never said that about you.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:35):
Have you said that statement before, though?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:36):
Go ask the guy told you that. Asked him if I've
ever said it before. And there's your answer. All
right, Excellent.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:44):
Well, I appreciate it.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:45):
All right, buddy. Nice seeing you again. You too.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:48):
I'll see you around.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:49):
All right. I'm sorry you were told that, but that's just
not so. Hey, it's politics, man.
Politics.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:55):
See, a lot worse things have been said anyway.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (27:58):
Hell on me. I chase women. You know, I wouldn't do
anything like.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:01):
That maybe in your old days, huh?
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (28:04):
All right, buddy. Have a good one.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:05):
You too.
>> Sheriff Randy Seal (28:06):
Thank you.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:08):
I don't know what to make of it and I don't really care, but I
have to say, as one liners go, that's pretty damn funny.
I left the meeting with mixed emotions. On one hand, I was
grateful for the sheriff's time and the acknowledgement of his hands off
approach, which explained a lot. But frankly,
I was pissed off. Catching Donna's killer is most
(28:28):
important. But if even a fraction of the allegations against the
initial investigation are true, the citizens of Washington
Parish deserve accountability. The sheriff has
had years to look at the case and perform a review of
his employees. He acknowledged the possibility of
poor police work. So why a review hasn't happened after
all this time and constant speculation –
(28:48):
is beyond me.
As I was leaving, I saw my brother pass by the sheriff's
office. It was time to go straight to the source.
[phone ringing]
Yo, what's up?
>> Tucker's brother (29:02):
Yeah, just got off work, headed to the house.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:04):
I just left a meeting with Randy. And
there weren't very many details.
>> Tucker's brother (29:09):
Oh wow.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:10):
So, Tom. Yeah, since Tom won't answer the phone,
you want to ride out there with me and knock on his door?
>> Tucker's brother (29:15):
Hell yeah. Meet me. Meet me at the house. I'll ride.
>> Tucker Simmons (29:18):
All right, cool. I'm pulling out now, so I'll be right behind
you.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (29:51):
There's Something Strange in the air
tonight.
>> Tucker Simmons (30:02):
I hope you enjoyed episode five. There's a whole lot more to
come as my investigation unravels. In episode
six, my brother and I take that drive to Tom's and
we finally go public in a big way. I'll see you
then. Make sure you follow rate and review on
Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening. It's a
huge help in spreading the word about Donna's case. Then head over to
freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on
(30:24):
the investigation and follow us on socials at Freeze
Frame Pod for exclusive content. Freeze
Frame is a But Why Media production. It's written and
produced by me, Tucker Simmons, editing and
post production by Evan Dezonier, narration
by Greg Gehringer and Kerry Lauren and our
original music is Something Strange by Tabitha
Meeks.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (30:55):
Something strange,
Something strange.
You can't hide forever.
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