November 5, 2024 • 37 mins
As Tucker's investigation goes public, he approaches several key players for their take on Donna's case before his anonymity is erased.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Tucker Simmons (00:00):
Hey, guys, it's Tucker. In an effort to keep spreading the word
and keeping Donna's memory and case alive, I have a favor to
ask you. Help us get to a thousand reviews.
Every single one makes a difference. If you're not
sure how, check out social media or
freezeframepodcast.com for a quick guide that our
team put together. Here's a few my producer sent me this
morning. Andy Lynn, 2736, said,
(00:23):
I can't wait for more. I absolutely love this type of
reporting. It keeps me totally engaged. Can't wait for the next
episode. The flow is great and his voice is perfect for
storytelling. Aw. thanks, Andy. Another one here
from Dee Dee of Three "Small town
secrets." This is so full of tea and twist in a small
town. Love how you're going through every detail to find out
what really happened. Me too, Dee Dee. The more we put
(00:45):
out there, the more tips that roll in. And every detail
matters. And here's one more from Graffiti Spoon.
Really enjoying this so far. I was leaving the Washington Parish Fair
to head back to New Orleans when I saw a sign for this
podcast. You should definitely consider putting a billboard up in
NOLA. That's not a bad idea. I'll see what I can
do. Thanks for all your support and dedication to
Donna's story so far. Our team will pick several
(01:08):
reviews for me to read on social media and upcoming
episodes, so keep them coming. I look forward to reading each
and every one.
>> Narrator (01:15):
The claims, views and opinions expressed are those of the
speaker and do not represent those of But Why Media or
its Partners. All subjects are innocent until
proven guilty. This is a podcast
about difficult topics and it may not be suitable for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
>> Tom Anderson (01:43):
This is a no win situation for me. No win.
There's no benefit to me to tell you
anything.
>> Demmie Rice (01:51):
And ah, what you do is you keep on baiting them. and he's gonna
trip up. He won't remember those details. He'll
screw up.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (01:59):
If people think that it's a political
stunt because it's gonna reflect
negatively on Randy.
I mean, that probably tells you everything you need to know about how it was
handled in the first place.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (02:19):
I'm feeling heavy. There's a pounding in
my chest. The shadows
hiding. But I see the silhouettes.
fear lives in the quiet
whispers in the sigh.
>> Tucker Simmons (02:39):
I'm Tucker Simmons and this is Freeze
Frame, an investigation into the unsolved
murder of Donna Arceneaux.
(03:02):
There's a lot of rumors floating around about the integrity of the Washington
Parish Sheriff's office. And there have been a slew of scandals under
every Sheriff for as long as I can remember.
Most notably, on June 2, 1965, 34
year old army veteran Deputy O'Neal
Moore and his partner, David Creed Rogers were
(03:23):
shot in a drive by Deputy Moore, who
had just celebrated his one year anniversary as a deputy the
day before, died instantly from a gunshot wound to
the head. Deputy Rogers survived and
was able to provide a description of the vehicle. Moore
and Rogers were the first two black deputies in Washington
Parish, and it's believed the KKK was responsible
(03:43):
for the shooting. Known Klan member
Ernest Rayford Ray McKelvin was arrested and
booked on $25,000 bond. Nine days later,
he was released after Klan members raised the funds to post his
bail. Charges against McKelvin were dropped
due to insufficient evidence, and the FBI reopened
the case, on three different occasions. In 2016,
(04:05):
the FBI closed the case for a third time,
citing the virtual impossibility of
prosecuting the case. The Washington
Parish Sheriff's office received an onslaught of criticism from both
sides. Those who felt the investigation was
mishandled and from those in the sizable
KKK membership who protested the hiring of
Moore and Rogers to begin with. Longtime Sheriff
(04:27):
Randy Seal was Sheriff at the time of Donna's murder;
back in 1965, Sheriff Seal's father, who
went by Slick, worked for Louisiana Wildlife and
Fisheries. He would later become Washington Parish's
chief deputy in 1991.
To this day, the rumor mill has its theories as to who was
behind the ambush. Many suggest it was
(04:48):
an inside job.
It's a sad reality, but the lack of trust in the Washington
Parish Sheriff's Office is nothing new. For
many victims families. Those doubts are aimed at Captain
Tom Anderson and his team of investigators.
On the other hand, Tom is admired by many for
(05:09):
his lifelong dedication to law enforcement and his many
convictions throughout his career. It would
be easy for me to point fingers. God knows there's a line
of former colleagues and families waiting to trash talk
with anyone who will listen. But the truth is, the
rumor mill has tainted everything.
I can understand why Tom doesn't want to talk to me, but
(05:30):
he's a key figure in Donna's case, and I need to know
his side of the story. Probably
should have put it in the park.
Yeah. Yeah.
Hi there. Hey, Tom. My name is Tucker. I'm working
(05:51):
on the Donna Arceneaux case.
>> Tom Anderson (05:53):
Have you talked to a state police?
>> Tucker Simmons (05:55):
I have, yes, sir.
>> Tom Anderson (05:56):
Then they. That's their case. I cannot comment on
another agency. I'm right in the middle of video
game.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:03):
Okay.
>> Tom Anderson (06:03):
You're welcome to come in play, but.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:05):
Well...
>> Tom Anderson (06:05):
I'm retired. You're not gonna catch
me up in the trick bag. They want
information, they'll give it to you.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:13):
Well, they've told us it's a cold case at this point.
>> Tom Anderson (06:16):
They've got a cold case squad they give it
to. I heard they were making
progress. That's all I can tell you.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:23):
Yeah, I'm just. I'm trying to figure out what made you think
Donna killed herself.
>> Tom Anderson (06:28):
Go see the state police. Well, under. Why don't you
request a report?
>> Tucker Simmons (06:32):
Well, we have.
>> Tom Anderson (06:33):
Did you get supplementals? No, that's not public
record.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:37):
Well, we've been given a lot of information.
>> Tom Anderson (06:39):
I know you have I got. You got.
Donna was a very popular person.
She had friends.
She had a messy lifestyle as far
as choices in men. And it is
what it is. So the rest of it,
you need to go to the state police because I cannot
(06:59):
release – I cannot talk about – Why don't you put your phone back
in the car? Your phone.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:05):
I have my phone. I mean.
>> Tom Anderson (07:06):
Yeah, because you might be recording. I'm sure you're are.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:09):
Louisiana is a one party consent state.
As long as the person recording is a party to the
conversation, it's legal. That's how I
obtained many of the recordings you hear in this podcast.
The legalities and rights to privacy get more fuzzy when
on someone's private property and they ask to not be
recorded. Obviously, I was recording.
(07:29):
But Tom asked me to put my phone in my car. As I
motioned to do just that, he continued talking
and didn't ask me to stop recording. I put my phone in
my pocket and we continued
You seem nervous. I'm not trying to be ugly.
>> Tom Anderson (07:43):
Well, you come to my house on uninvited.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:45):
Well, I called you a few times and you hung up. Well, I didn't.
>> Tom Anderson (07:48):
Well, it was an unknown area code for one. And
then if you go in there and try to have cell
service.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:54):
Yeah...
>> Tom Anderson (07:54):
You know.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:55):
I, I'm not. I'm not trying to be adversarial with you. I really am not.
>> Tom Anderson (07:57):
Well, listen, I know what you're trying to do. You want a story?
She went with your uncle. Yeah, whatever.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:03):
Yeah.
>> Tom Anderson (08:04):
So go to the state police, but
get them.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:07):
But there are questions that only you can answer.
>> Tom Anderson (08:11):
Do you want me to call the Police?
>> Tucker Simmons (08:12):
No...
>> Tom Anderson (08:13):
I want you to leave.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:14):
Okay. Okay.
>> Tom Anderson (08:15):
So we're not friends. You know, you're. I don't
trust you. Your motives are not there.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:21):
You haven't asked what my motive is. My motive is just find out
what happened.
>> Tom Anderson (08:25):
No,
>> Tucker Simmons (08:27):
What do you think my motive is?
>> Tom Anderson (08:28):
You're a journalist? Documentary. That's what your
bio. So go
to the state police.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:35):
So what they told. I'll tell you what they told me. They, they told me
that due to a different standard of investigating in
Washington Parish, they started with
less than what they expected.
>> Tom Anderson (08:46):
Shit. It's a. It's a case
that sat in limbo from the coroner's office
for close to a year.
They said it's better to leave it as a homicide
than it is as a suicide, just under remote chance
that it wasn't. So we've investigated
it fully. What we could do,
(09:08):
the family, boyfriends or
somebody or others requested the
state police take it up. The
Sheriff wanted us to give it to the state. That's what
we did. I'm not going to talk about it. Do you want
to talk about LSU? Talk about anything. Tell
me about you. Let's sit down and just talk. I'm going to talk to you a
(09:28):
minute.
>> Tucker Simmons (09:28):
Okay? As you heard, Tom asked us to
leave. And once again, as I motioned down the steps
of his front porch, he continued the conversation. We
sat in rocking chairs and talked about my grandparents, where I went to
high school and how I got into television. I shared
how I discovered my passion for investigating after developing
and producing a series for the A & E network that looked into
(09:49):
a, female led cult in North Carolina, which prompted
Tom to get back to Donna's case.
>> Tom Anderson (09:54):
This is a no win situation for me. No win.
There's no benefit to me to tell you anything
about that now. If we want to talk about
anything else...
>> Tucker's brother (10:04):
There would be a benefit if they could find out who did it. Correct?
>> Tom Anderson (10:07):
It's not a benefit to me
>> Tucker's brother (10:09):
To solve a case...
>> Tom Anderson (10:10):
Benefit to me to tell you anything.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:13):
Can you at least acknowledge that?
>> Tom Anderson (10:15):
I acknowledge nothing other than,
>> Tucker Simmons (10:16):
No but we're...
>> Tom Anderson (10:17):
They're uninvited, that I told the Sheriff I wasn't going
to talk to you about it. I told Brent M. Jones app. But you came here
anyway.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:24):
It never made its way to me. I...
>> Tom Anderson (10:25):
You know you're over here uninvited.
Now you know, so,
>> Tucker Simmons (10:30):
I mean, we can leave. I'm not...
>> Tom Anderson (10:31):
I just want to, I want to clear the air out, I cannot give
you no information.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:36):
Are you open to at least hearing my questions for you?
>> Tom Anderson (10:38):
You can ask, but I'm not gonna answer.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:40):
Okay. Did you know Scott @&$% before Donna was
killed?
>> Tom Anderson (10:43):
I can answer that honestly. No.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:45):
Okay. Because that's one of the allegations.
>> Tom Anderson (10:47):
Was it Demmie Rice?
>> Tucker Simmons (10:49):
No. No.
>> Tom Anderson (10:50):
Because I didn't know this
guy @&$% Tucker
when I met him. And we investigate
by committee. I'm gonna tell you
this. He went through a
very brutal interrogation
for hours, hours. Hours.
(11:11):
By not me. By,
seasoned investigators from the state,
from the sheriff's office. Now, you probably didn't know that, did you?
>> Tucker Simmons (11:20):
I did. Well, I also. I know he failed his
polygraph.
>> Tom Anderson (11:24):
Listen, I used to give the polygraph
during the training. I failed because you
cannot use that.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:31):
Right. It's not admissible.
>> Tom Anderson (11:32):
Just something. A sidebar.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:34):
Yeah.
>> Tom Anderson (11:35):
When they tell you, like during a
training, which you would never. And I still don't
think you're not recording. So if you are, you don't have my
permission.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:44):
And there you have it. Out of respect for Tom's request, my
copious note taking ability came in handy. For the
next two hours, we sat on the porch and discuss details of
the case, controversy around other cases Tom worked his
military career and his dislike of Demmie.
The following reenactment is based on my notes and
encapsulate Tom's position on many of the issues we discussed
(12:05):
in those two hours. These are NOT direct
quotes.
>> Narrator (12:09):
I went to Clay and Donna's wedding. He turned
toxic on me during the investigation because he was
just as much of a suspect as Scott. We were
buddies, but he doesn't have anything for me now.
I was just doing my job. We
worked this case to the bone. There's evidence
she did this to herself. There's evidence she
(12:29):
didn't. I ask all our
investigators if anyone thinks there's enough probable
cause, let's get a warrant. But there wasn't.
>> Tucker Simmons (12:39):
I asked him to clarify who and what the warrant would have been
for. Tom confirmed it would have been an arrest warrant for
Scott. When asked why there was never a search warrant for
Scott's home, he said they never requested one because
they didn't know what they were looking for.
Later in the conversation, he acknowledged there was something taken from
the crime scene. The object on the bed that left a
(13:00):
bloody 90 degree angle that we've discussed in previous
episodes.
>> Demmie Rice (13:04):
There was very minimal
blood on the bed. However, there
was a 90 degree
angle where
blood outlined an object,
possibly a phone,
that was removed and could not be
found.
>> Tucker Simmons (13:25):
I asked why locating that object wouldn't have constituted a
search warrant of the suspect's home. Tom
reiterated they didn't know what they were looking for. I
then asked his theory on what happened to the second bullet.
There were two shell casings, but only one bullet
recovered.
>> Narrator (13:39):
Scott and Donna were fighting Sunday night. He was with
his kids at his place behind Donna's. They heard a
gunshot, and Scott thought Donna had killed
herself. So he called her, Donna told him
there was someone outside her bedroom and she fired a
warning shot out the window.
>> Tucker Simmons (13:56):
It could be that Tom is just misremembering, but that
version of the story is not what Scott told investigators
during his interview.
When I left Tom's, I called Demmie to clarify
claims of a shot out the window. We'll get back to my
meeting with Tom in just a few. Look, I wanted
(14:17):
to clarify a couple things from my interview with Tom
Anderson.
>> Demmie Rice (14:20):
Hold on. I'm just getting in the car, I'm gonna turn the air-conditioning .
Cuz this bitch is hot.
>> Tucker Simmons (14:27):
He claims that Scott and the kids
were at their house behind Donna's on
Sunday night and they heard a gunshot. He thought she
had committed suicide, so he called, she answered
and said that someone was standing outside the window. So she
fired a warning shot. So was, was the
window broken?
>> Demmie Rice (14:46):
No, the window was not broken. However,
the window, which would
be the south side of the house,
in the bedroom, the screen had a
hole in it, but the hole in the screen was
bigger than a size of a quarter. That's
a far fetched story that, that was probably
(15:06):
concocted amongst people because he can't
keep his story straight
because he knew the gun was fired twice.
And he claimed in the interview with Tom
Anderson that Donna shot the gun
outside his children's window.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:24):
Just to refresh your memory, Demmie's notes were
incredibly detailed, especially concerning the sounds of
gunfire.
In his interviews with investigators, Scott claimed he was
at home with his kids and heard a gunshot outside his kids
bedroom window. Phone records showed he texted
Donna at 12:47am
>> Narrator (15:44):
Scott texted Donna, "shooting a gun right
outside my kids bedroom window." To which Donna
responds.
>> Donna's Narrator Voice (15:51):
What are you talking about? I'm, in bed.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:54):
So where did the story about someone outside Donna's window
and a warning shot come from? On top
of that, Scott's ex wife couldn't remember if her kids even
heard the gunfire or if it was Scott who told them about
it. Which, if I were to speculate again, does
make it possible he told them about the gunfire in case they
heard it. And the origins of that gunfire was actually the
altercation that resulted in Donna's death.
(16:17):
Now back to Tom. I asked him about the allegations that
Scott was allowed to go from the scene to his house and
change clothes with no supervision. Tom refuted
those claims.
>> Narrator (16:27):
I escorted him to his house. I watched him strip
down. We put his clothes in a bag for gunfire
residue. There was none. There were no
bruises or defensive marks on his body.
Could he have showered before he ever called in the death?
Of course I ask him, but there's no way
of knowing.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:46):
Perhaps a search warrant on the home would have been helpful.
I also asked Tom about the statement to the paper announcing
Donna's death was officially a suicide. I've hounded
on it, I know, but there's never been an explanation.
>> Narrator (16:58):
That statement was not my doing. That was Chief Mike
Haley. I asked him about it, and he said
it was a casual conversation with Steve at the Era
Leader. It was never meant to be published.
I was upset about the article, and had it been
corrected, I think it may have taken a lot of the heat off of
me.
>> Tucker Simmons (17:17):
Mike Haley has never returned my calls, But I have a
hard time believing Mr. Steve at the Era Leader would expose an off
the record conversation. He and I have exchanged many off the
record emails, and I know he values that
understanding. Mr. Steve has confirmed the
communication with Mike Haley regarding Donna's manner of death
was an email exchange. I don't know about
y'all, but I've never had a, casual conversation
(17:39):
via email.
Toward the end of my conversation with Tom, I circled back
about why he was so convinced of suicide. Multiple people
who were on scene and who worked the case have said he was
almost belligerent and even argued with his detective, Raymond
Myers, about bringing in the state police crime lab to
process the scene.
>> Narrator (18:01):
It wasn't just Clay who had told me in years past that
Donna was suicidal. They would say
even if she threatened it, she would never do it.
Well, okay, but our detectives were
split 50 50. Raymond
got mad at me on scene because he wanted to call the state
police crime lab, and it pissed him off that I
(18:21):
asked why. Then he came back and
apologized. Why do you think I told him to go
ahead? The crime lab doesn't come out to
suicides.
It's easy for people to dog me out and all
that, but I stand by our work on the
case. And if Clay and everyone else would have
just left it alone and let us do our jobs, I
(18:42):
think we could have solved it.
>> Tucker Simmons (18:47):
We left off on a cordial note. Tom shared that he's
had a lot of health issues recently and was hoping I wouldn't trash
him in my story. I'm not out to trash anyone,
but the questions have to be asked. I think he took that as
some personal vendetta against him. His memory of
certain details contradict what others have told me and even
more so, contradict suspect statements to
investigators. So, no, it's not personal.
(19:10):
It's about airing it all out so we can get to the facts, which
are probably somewhere in the middle.
I mentioned in the last episode that it was time to go
public. For weeks, the team and I contemplated the best way
to notify the public that Donna's death was ruled a
(19:30):
homicide and to seek tips from those who had information.
Social media ads, a column in the paper tipping
off local media. It was all on the table. But
there's nothing quite like a billboard in the center of
town. It had to be provocative, both
visual and in location. Across the street from the
Washington Parish sheriff's office felt appropriate.
Before installing, I called a few sources for advice on
(19:53):
approaching Scott for an interview. As usual,
Demmie was the only one willing to go on the record
You there.
>> Demmie Rice (20:05):
Yeah, you call and tell me
>> Tucker Simmons (20:07):
I wanted to get my recorder on. That's why. So I am
in Franklinton because the billboard is ready.
I'm trying to decide if I want to
attempt to speak with Scott before that happens.
I have no doubt that he's already been notified and he
knows that someone's digging in. But once the billboard goes
up, I mean, like, all bets are off. I mean, everyone's gonna have their guard up, I would
(20:28):
imagine.
>> Demmie Rice (20:29):
I want to watch them put that billboard up!
>> Tucker Simmons (20:32):
Like, if you were investigating this, would
you, you would want to speak with the
suspect before, you know, a bunch of news hit, I
would imagine, right? Or, like, what's your opinion?
>> Demmie Rice (20:43):
I would have been tried to talk to him. You have to
play into it. I would have went to him like, hey, you
know, we understand that, you know, y'all in a
relationship. How is it being falsely
accused? And what you do is you keep on
baiting them. Then, you compare
his statements to you, then his
statements that's in the report.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:05):
Yeah.
>> Demmie Rice (21:06):
And he's gonna trip up. He won't remember
those details. He'll screw up.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:11):
I just don't want to jump the gun and do that and then not
have enough people prepared
to, you know, follow his movements for a couple
days. But it's almost to the point where
the story is developing quickly and people are finding out. So I think I might
need to just do it.
>> Demmie Rice (21:28):
I don't know Tuck, I really don't
know. But I guarantee if you can get in with that
and play him off as, you know, we
filing up on cold cases, and
we found that, you know, it was a turbulent
relationship and you were being
accused, you know, would you like to give us your side, tell
(21:48):
us what happened? Because I guarantee
he's not going to remember the details he said
before.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:55):
As fate would have it, my Producer and I were driving through
Franklinton and recognized Scott's vehicle
>> Producer (22:01):
Just got closed in that white car.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:03):
Oh, that's Scott.
>> Producer (22:05):
It's a GMC or something or other.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:07):
Oh, that's him. That's it.
>> Producer (22:09):
Okay.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:13):
Yeah, it's gotta be. He took the side road.
>> Producer (22:15):
Yeah.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:16):
He's probably just going back home, though.
>> Producer (22:17):
Yeah.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:24):
We were hoping to approach him in public, but we were out of
time. We waited a bit, knowing he was home
and hoping it would stop raining. It never did. So we
pulled into his driveway. The same home Aunt Donna
lived and worked in for decades. The same home where she
was murdered.
(22:53):
What's up, man? Hey.
>> Scott (22:54):
How you doing?
>> Tucker Simmons (22:55):
Good. my name is Tucker. We're working on a story about Cold
Case with you.
>> Scott (22:59):
Yes.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:59):
About the Donald Arms in the case. Yeah, we're just curious
about if you want to talk to us about it.
>> Scott (23:05):
No, my girlfriend is fixing to come because we are going to
the movies.
>> Tucker Simmons (23:08):
Okay. Scott cracked the door open, placed his arm across the
opening, and rested his hand on the door frame.
He was visibly shaken by two strangers at his door,
and his voice was cracking. I reminded him that
Donna's case has officially ruled a homicide and asked
him what he thinks should happen to bring justice for the woman he
loved.
>> Scott (23:26):
You know, Dr. Thomas was
a coroner for a long time,
he's one of my good friends. And he
said, you know, that can go either
way, depending on,
you know, who it is. I
mean, you know, like I said,
(23:47):
a couple of these women pushed the theory
that somebody could have killed her,
and my kids were
questioned.
You know, do you think that bothered me?
It bothered me, too. Of course it did.
I mean, who wouldn't, you know?
(24:09):
Yeah, that's pretty sickening, too,
that I was a suspect. I mean, that
was pretty sickening.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:17):
Yeah, that didn't really answer my question.
Scott has maintained he was madly in love with Donna and
wanted to work it out with her. So any response other than
fighting like hell to expose the mishandling of the investigation
and finding who killed her strikes me as odd. He
was visibly angry when explaining his disdain for being a
suspect, but that's pretty normal, especially for
(24:38):
someone with the history he had with Donna.
But you guys were together at the time.
>> Scott (24:43):
What's that?
>> Tucker Simmons (24:44):
You guys were together at the time of her death or.
>> Scott (24:48):
Yeah, I'm done with talking. I went up
there voluntarily and told them
everything. I
had nothing to hide
whatsoever. Yeah, I didn't bring an attorney
or nothing. You know, if you want to go get a copy of
that. You welcome to.
I don't want to talk about this.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:10):
Scott stepped out the Door and stuck his head around the house for a
view of the driveway. Unfortunately, this is where our
conversation ended. I immediately regretted not pressing
him harder from the start. I'm
no body language expert, but there was one major
takeaway. As Demmie would probably say,
he was scared as shit.
The next evening, in the dark of night, on the wall of a
(25:32):
local bail bonds office, we installed a 6 by
15 foot banner that reads (25:35):
There's a murderer
among us. Official ruling
homicide. We included a photo of Donna, a
tip line, and a website address to upload files and
documentation anonymously. By sunrise the next
morning, all hell broke loose.
>> Narrator (25:52):
He was always stalking her and stalking people that she talked
to. You need to look into.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:02):
The tip line lit up nonstop. A photo got shared
on facebook and the gossip groups were on fire. And
more people than I expected believed the newspaper headline that
Donna did this to herself. Friends of Donna,
friends of suspects, local pastors, elected
officials. Everyone was reaching out with what they knew and what they
had heard for six years in order to protect them.
(26:22):
I've chosen not to play those voicemails right now.
I got the feeling that no one wanted to be the one to stir up the
hornet's nest, but as soon as it was swarming, they couldn't
wait to tell all. I didn't expect it to happen so
quickly, but it was definitely reassuring.
Most people felt like what they had wouldn't be helpful, but when
compiled, things were adding up. And then the
(26:44):
rumor mill took hold. I got call after call
asking if I was doing this for political purposes.
Obviously, I was aware of the sheriff's election coming up, but at the
time, we were years into this investigation, the
theory that a man named Jason Smith was responsible for the
sign took off.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (27:02):
I'm a retired marine who runs a farm here
in Mount Hermon. I'm a father, I've got five
kids, I'm married to a public school teacher, and
I want to be the next Sheriff of Washington Parish. The farm
has been in my family for about as long as
Washington Parish has been here. There's always a fence that needs to be
mended. There's always a cow that's in the wrong spot.
(27:23):
If you don't take care of the things that need to get taken care care of and just
continue to do things the way you've always done it, things are not going to
get better. And the same goes for our Parish.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:34):
Jason was running for Sheriff against Randy Seal and two
other men in what would become a volatile campaign.
In Louisiana, the Sheriff is also responsible for
collecting Sales tax. I'll spare you all the
details, but prior to launching his campaign, Sheriff
Randy seal sued Jason for unpaid sales
tax. Jason won the case with the support of
(27:54):
many elected officials. And as he put it during the campaign,
throughout that legal process, his eyes were open to just
how poorly the sheriff's office was managed.
I called him about all the billboard rumors.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (28:06):
I could probably understand how people think because of
just the timing, because we're in this middle of this campaign. It
might be politically motivated, But I didn't
really know anything about Donna's case.
I still don't know anything about Donna's case, except that it
kind of was unresolved. So my
reservations or my problems with the current
(28:26):
administration don't really have anything to do with Donna's case, because I don't know anything about
it. I mean, if
I've been pretty clear about some of the
things I'm dissatisfied with with the current administration,
I don't know. I guess I feel that if
people think that it's a political stunt
because it's going to reflect negatively on
(28:47):
Randy, I mean, that probably tells you
everything you need to know about how it was handled in the first place.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:55):
As part of our investigation, we launched the Who Killed Donna
Arceneaux Facebook group. We posted a statement
there to dispel the rumors and moved on.
Shortly after, Sheriff Randy seal installed a
campaign sign next to ours. Same
size, same wall, inches apart.
Once again, the rumor mill ran wild,
(29:15):
with many believing he and the sheriff's office were responsible for
Donna's sign, as if they were working diligently to
solve the case. As disrespectful as his
stunt was, it was all the proof we needed. The
billboard was sending shockwaves throughout the community.
It was effective. Donna's case was the topic of
conversation at nearly every campaign event and debate
(29:35):
forum. Community leaders were forced to
acknowledge the shortcomings of the initial investigation.
And although this has never been a political endeavor, after four
years of investigating, it's now my belief that the
unsolved status of Donna's case is directly
linked to the lack of oversight and accountability at the
Washington Parish Sheriff's Office.
(30:02):
As the gossip around town was swirling, a laundry list of
names were coming into the tip line. One in
particular stood out. Tommy.
Even prior to the billboard installation, the name had come up in
multiple conversations and in investigative files.
I had a feeling why, but I was holding off as long as
possible. It wasn't until an elected official
(30:23):
in Washington Parish approached me at a campaign event
with some new information that my interest in Tommy
piqued. He and Scott are cousins. They hang out a lot.
And several sources, including law enforcement officials, thought I
should make contact. I had never met him, but I did
know he had quite the reputation in the area and a slew of
protective orders filed against him. It took a while to track
him down, but I had a street name as well as the make,
(30:45):
model, and color of his vehicle. So one
afternoon while on the Mississippi Gulf coast, I took a
drive and found his house.
Hey there. Hey, man.
>> Tommy (31:03):
Hi, how you doing?
>> Tucker Simmons (31:04):
Good. My name is Tucker Simmons. I'm working, I'm
the journalist working on the Donna Arseneaux case.
I wanted to see if you would talk to me for a few minutes. People tell me
I need to talk to you, so...
>> Tommy (31:18):
Not,
...it's too close to my family. You know what I'm saying? It's too close.
And, you know, I appreciate you
asking, and I hate you came out this way, but, I am looking forward to seeing
it.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:29):
Yeah. I mean, did you know Donna well?
>> Tommy (31:32):
I knew her, I've known her for a long. She's actually a cousin of my
ex wife.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:36):
Okay. But,
>> Tommy (31:38):
But yeah, I knew her.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:40):
Obviously, there's a lot of theories about what happened. I think the reason
people wanted me to talk to you is they say that you and Scott were really
close.
>> Tommy (31:46):
Uh huh. Yeah, Scott, he's my
first cousin. We were really, really close.
And, you
know, all I can tell you, all I want to say is
that Donna, she just had a
trigger man. She just. She would flip out,
like, crazy.
(32:08):
And...
>> Tucker Simmons (32:09):
You know, look, I, I'm trying to get everybody the benefit of the
doubt. I have a lot of questions for Scott. I think
there's a lot of things that don't add up. There's a lot of people in
his life that have had bad experiences
with him. So I just wish he would
talk to me. I mean, I'm gonna have to tell his
story. And I think it would behoove him to tell his own
(32:30):
story. But we're piecing it together based on his, you know,
what he's told investigators, that kind of thing. And there's also
Clay.
>> Tommy (32:38):
You know, she had a lot of enemies. Donna
did she. She's pissed off a lot of people.
I don't think my cousin killed her. I don't think he could have. You
know, he would have never done it.
>> Tucker Simmons (32:50):
Were you aware that he was violent with her as well?
>> Tommy (32:53):
I think a lot of times, they just want him situation
where she.
He had to do Whatever he had to do to get her off of him, you know,
because the way he always explained it to me, it's like, man, she went
in one of her things last night.
>> Tucker Simmons (33:08):
The allegations of a video have been of interest to investigators
since the case was with the Washington Parish Sheriff's Office,
which made it of interest to me, given the
sensitivity of what I was about to ask. I won't be using the
audio of my question to sum it up, though.
I asked Tommy if he was aware of any compromising
situations his cousin or anyone else for that matter,
(33:28):
may have been videoed in that Donna could have used as leverage
if backed into a corner.
>> Tommy (33:33):
I think I know where you're coming with that.
Because, you know, and, I've heard it, you know, and
some of the stuff on, like, the who killed Don
Arseneaux thing on Facebook. Facebook, you know, But
I've, never suspected it, you know, or even
seen anything like that.
>> Tucker Simmons (33:51):
Yeah, it's come up in the police file as well
that, you know, there are a couple potential motives, and
if Donna was threatening to use something against. Him,
>> Tommy (33:59):
Well, that's about it, man.
>> Tucker Simmons (34:00):
Do you think you could talk to him and see if he.
>> Tommy (34:02):
I talked to me. Yeah, I talked with him. Did you have a card or something?
>> Tucker Simmons (34:05):
Yeah, let me get a card.
Although it was a denial, his demeanor changed dramatically
when I asked the question. As I've said before,
I'm, no body language expert, but that stood out,
given the details of what I've seen in Demmie's notes and heard
from other investigators about the case and this alleged
video. His reaction was very telling.
(34:25):
In my opinion, of course. I'm sure
Tommy called his cousin as soon as I left, but I had no
expectation that he would actually encourage Scott to talk to me.
It was worth a shot, though.
As helpful as the tips and public attention had been up to this
point, the most significant lead came late one evening
(34:47):
on my drive home from Louisiana.
Hey, guys. Sorry for the late call. Look,
I think we just got what we've been waiting for.
Someone just uploaded 200 plus files
via Who Killed Donna.com. I have really bad
service, so I can't get them to load, but it
looks, looks like crime scene photos and a bunch
(35:10):
of documents, so download and back them
up ASAP.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (35:33):
See something
staring back at me
Can't look it in the eyes.
There's Something Strange in the air
tonight.
>> Tucker Simmons (35:53):
Thank you guys for all the support and discussion on social media.
It's been really awesome to see the response and passion for
Donna's case. So keep the questions, theories and tips
coming in. Up next, the Louisiana State Police
deliver an update to Donna's son and the anonymous
upload that you're not going to believe. I know I
didn't. Make sure you follow rate and review on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening. It's a
(36:15):
huge help in spreading the word about Donna's case. Then head over to
freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on
the investigation and follow us on socials at Freeze
Frame Pod for exclusive content. Freeze
Frame is a But why Media Production it's written and
produced by me, Tucker Simmons, editing and
post production by Evan Disagnier, narration
(36:35):
by Greg Geringer and Kerry Lauren, and our
original music is Something Strange by Tabitha Meeks.
Hey, guys, it's Tucker. In an effort to keep spreading the word
and keeping Donna's memory and case alive, I have a favor to
ask you. Help us get to a thousand reviews.
Every single one makes a difference. If you're not
sure how, check out social media or
freezeframepodcast.com for a quick guide that our
team put together. Here's a few my producer sent me this
morning. Andy Lynn, 2736, said,
(00:23):
I can't wait for more. I absolutely love this type of
reporting. It keeps me totally engaged. Can't wait for the next
episode. The flow is great and his voice is perfect for
storytelling. Aw. thanks, Andy. Another one here
from Dee Dee of Three "Small town
secrets." This is so full of tea and twist in a small
town. Love how you're going through every detail to find out
what really happened. Me too, Dee Dee. The more we put
(00:45):
out there, the more tips that roll in. And every detail
matters. And here's one more from Graffiti Spoon.
Really enjoying this so far. I was leaving the Washington Parish Fair
to head back to New Orleans when I saw a sign for this
podcast. You should definitely consider putting a billboard up in
NOLA. That's not a bad idea. I'll see what I can
do. Thanks for all your support and dedication to
Donna's story so far. Our team will pick several
(01:08):
reviews for me to read on social media and upcoming
episodes, so keep them coming. I look forward to reading each
and every one.
>> Narrator (01:15):
The claims, views and opinions expressed are those of the
speaker and do not represent those of But Why Media or
its Partners. All subjects are innocent until
proven guilty. This is a podcast
about difficult topics and it may not be suitable for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
>> Tom Anderson (01:43):
This is a no win situation for me. No win.
There's no benefit to me to tell you
anything.
>> Demmie Rice (01:51):
And ah, what you do is you keep on baiting them. and he's gonna
trip up. He won't remember those details. He'll
screw up.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (01:59):
If people think that it's a political
stunt because it's gonna reflect
negatively on Randy.
I mean, that probably tells you everything you need to know about how it was
handled in the first place.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (02:19):
I'm feeling heavy. There's a pounding in
my chest. The shadows
hiding. But I see the silhouettes.
fear lives in the quiet
whispers in the sigh.
>> Tucker Simmons (02:39):
I'm Tucker Simmons and this is Freeze
Frame, an investigation into the unsolved
murder of Donna Arceneaux.
(03:02):
There's a lot of rumors floating around about the integrity of the Washington
Parish Sheriff's office. And there have been a slew of scandals under
every Sheriff for as long as I can remember.
Most notably, on June 2, 1965, 34
year old army veteran Deputy O'Neal
Moore and his partner, David Creed Rogers were
(03:23):
shot in a drive by Deputy Moore, who
had just celebrated his one year anniversary as a deputy the
day before, died instantly from a gunshot wound to
the head. Deputy Rogers survived and
was able to provide a description of the vehicle. Moore
and Rogers were the first two black deputies in Washington
Parish, and it's believed the KKK was responsible
(03:43):
for the shooting. Known Klan member
Ernest Rayford Ray McKelvin was arrested and
booked on $25,000 bond. Nine days later,
he was released after Klan members raised the funds to post his
bail. Charges against McKelvin were dropped
due to insufficient evidence, and the FBI reopened
the case, on three different occasions. In 2016,
(04:05):
the FBI closed the case for a third time,
citing the virtual impossibility of
prosecuting the case. The Washington
Parish Sheriff's office received an onslaught of criticism from both
sides. Those who felt the investigation was
mishandled and from those in the sizable
KKK membership who protested the hiring of
Moore and Rogers to begin with. Longtime Sheriff
(04:27):
Randy Seal was Sheriff at the time of Donna's murder;
back in 1965, Sheriff Seal's father, who
went by Slick, worked for Louisiana Wildlife and
Fisheries. He would later become Washington Parish's
chief deputy in 1991.
To this day, the rumor mill has its theories as to who was
behind the ambush. Many suggest it was
(04:48):
an inside job.
It's a sad reality, but the lack of trust in the Washington
Parish Sheriff's Office is nothing new. For
many victims families. Those doubts are aimed at Captain
Tom Anderson and his team of investigators.
On the other hand, Tom is admired by many for
(05:09):
his lifelong dedication to law enforcement and his many
convictions throughout his career. It would
be easy for me to point fingers. God knows there's a line
of former colleagues and families waiting to trash talk
with anyone who will listen. But the truth is, the
rumor mill has tainted everything.
I can understand why Tom doesn't want to talk to me, but
(05:30):
he's a key figure in Donna's case, and I need to know
his side of the story. Probably
should have put it in the park.
Yeah. Yeah.
Hi there. Hey, Tom. My name is Tucker. I'm working
(05:51):
on the Donna Arceneaux case.
>> Tom Anderson (05:53):
Have you talked to a state police?
>> Tucker Simmons (05:55):
I have, yes, sir.
>> Tom Anderson (05:56):
Then they. That's their case. I cannot comment on
another agency. I'm right in the middle of video
game.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:03):
Okay.
>> Tom Anderson (06:03):
You're welcome to come in play, but.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:05):
Well...
>> Tom Anderson (06:05):
I'm retired. You're not gonna catch
me up in the trick bag. They want
information, they'll give it to you.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:13):
Well, they've told us it's a cold case at this point.
>> Tom Anderson (06:16):
They've got a cold case squad they give it
to. I heard they were making
progress. That's all I can tell you.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:23):
Yeah, I'm just. I'm trying to figure out what made you think
Donna killed herself.
>> Tom Anderson (06:28):
Go see the state police. Well, under. Why don't you
request a report?
>> Tucker Simmons (06:32):
Well, we have.
>> Tom Anderson (06:33):
Did you get supplementals? No, that's not public
record.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:37):
Well, we've been given a lot of information.
>> Tom Anderson (06:39):
I know you have I got. You got.
Donna was a very popular person.
She had friends.
She had a messy lifestyle as far
as choices in men. And it is
what it is. So the rest of it,
you need to go to the state police because I cannot
(06:59):
release – I cannot talk about – Why don't you put your phone back
in the car? Your phone.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:05):
I have my phone. I mean.
>> Tom Anderson (07:06):
Yeah, because you might be recording. I'm sure you're are.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:09):
Louisiana is a one party consent state.
As long as the person recording is a party to the
conversation, it's legal. That's how I
obtained many of the recordings you hear in this podcast.
The legalities and rights to privacy get more fuzzy when
on someone's private property and they ask to not be
recorded. Obviously, I was recording.
(07:29):
But Tom asked me to put my phone in my car. As I
motioned to do just that, he continued talking
and didn't ask me to stop recording. I put my phone in
my pocket and we continued
You seem nervous. I'm not trying to be ugly.
>> Tom Anderson (07:43):
Well, you come to my house on uninvited.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:45):
Well, I called you a few times and you hung up. Well, I didn't.
>> Tom Anderson (07:48):
Well, it was an unknown area code for one. And
then if you go in there and try to have cell
service.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:54):
Yeah...
>> Tom Anderson (07:54):
You know.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:55):
I, I'm not. I'm not trying to be adversarial with you. I really am not.
>> Tom Anderson (07:57):
Well, listen, I know what you're trying to do. You want a story?
She went with your uncle. Yeah, whatever.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:03):
Yeah.
>> Tom Anderson (08:04):
So go to the state police, but
get them.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:07):
But there are questions that only you can answer.
>> Tom Anderson (08:11):
Do you want me to call the Police?
>> Tucker Simmons (08:12):
No...
>> Tom Anderson (08:13):
I want you to leave.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:14):
Okay. Okay.
>> Tom Anderson (08:15):
So we're not friends. You know, you're. I don't
trust you. Your motives are not there.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:21):
You haven't asked what my motive is. My motive is just find out
what happened.
>> Tom Anderson (08:25):
No,
>> Tucker Simmons (08:27):
What do you think my motive is?
>> Tom Anderson (08:28):
You're a journalist? Documentary. That's what your
bio. So go
to the state police.
>> Tucker Simmons (08:35):
So what they told. I'll tell you what they told me. They, they told me
that due to a different standard of investigating in
Washington Parish, they started with
less than what they expected.
>> Tom Anderson (08:46):
Shit. It's a. It's a case
that sat in limbo from the coroner's office
for close to a year.
They said it's better to leave it as a homicide
than it is as a suicide, just under remote chance
that it wasn't. So we've investigated
it fully. What we could do,
(09:08):
the family, boyfriends or
somebody or others requested the
state police take it up. The
Sheriff wanted us to give it to the state. That's what
we did. I'm not going to talk about it. Do you want
to talk about LSU? Talk about anything. Tell
me about you. Let's sit down and just talk. I'm going to talk to you a
(09:28):
minute.
>> Tucker Simmons (09:28):
Okay? As you heard, Tom asked us to
leave. And once again, as I motioned down the steps
of his front porch, he continued the conversation. We
sat in rocking chairs and talked about my grandparents, where I went to
high school and how I got into television. I shared
how I discovered my passion for investigating after developing
and producing a series for the A & E network that looked into
(09:49):
a, female led cult in North Carolina, which prompted
Tom to get back to Donna's case.
>> Tom Anderson (09:54):
This is a no win situation for me. No win.
There's no benefit to me to tell you anything
about that now. If we want to talk about
anything else...
>> Tucker's brother (10:04):
There would be a benefit if they could find out who did it. Correct?
>> Tom Anderson (10:07):
It's not a benefit to me
>> Tucker's brother (10:09):
To solve a case...
>> Tom Anderson (10:10):
Benefit to me to tell you anything.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:13):
Can you at least acknowledge that?
>> Tom Anderson (10:15):
I acknowledge nothing other than,
>> Tucker Simmons (10:16):
No but we're...
>> Tom Anderson (10:17):
They're uninvited, that I told the Sheriff I wasn't going
to talk to you about it. I told Brent M. Jones app. But you came here
anyway.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:24):
It never made its way to me. I...
>> Tom Anderson (10:25):
You know you're over here uninvited.
Now you know, so,
>> Tucker Simmons (10:30):
I mean, we can leave. I'm not...
>> Tom Anderson (10:31):
I just want to, I want to clear the air out, I cannot give
you no information.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:36):
Are you open to at least hearing my questions for you?
>> Tom Anderson (10:38):
You can ask, but I'm not gonna answer.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:40):
Okay. Did you know Scott @&$% before Donna was
killed?
>> Tom Anderson (10:43):
I can answer that honestly. No.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:45):
Okay. Because that's one of the allegations.
>> Tom Anderson (10:47):
Was it Demmie Rice?
>> Tucker Simmons (10:49):
No. No.
>> Tom Anderson (10:50):
Because I didn't know this
guy @&$% Tucker
when I met him. And we investigate
by committee. I'm gonna tell you
this. He went through a
very brutal interrogation
for hours, hours. Hours.
(11:11):
By not me. By,
seasoned investigators from the state,
from the sheriff's office. Now, you probably didn't know that, did you?
>> Tucker Simmons (11:20):
I did. Well, I also. I know he failed his
polygraph.
>> Tom Anderson (11:24):
Listen, I used to give the polygraph
during the training. I failed because you
cannot use that.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:31):
Right. It's not admissible.
>> Tom Anderson (11:32):
Just something. A sidebar.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:34):
Yeah.
>> Tom Anderson (11:35):
When they tell you, like during a
training, which you would never. And I still don't
think you're not recording. So if you are, you don't have my
permission.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:44):
And there you have it. Out of respect for Tom's request, my
copious note taking ability came in handy. For the
next two hours, we sat on the porch and discuss details of
the case, controversy around other cases Tom worked his
military career and his dislike of Demmie.
The following reenactment is based on my notes and
encapsulate Tom's position on many of the issues we discussed
(12:05):
in those two hours. These are NOT direct
quotes.
>> Narrator (12:09):
I went to Clay and Donna's wedding. He turned
toxic on me during the investigation because he was
just as much of a suspect as Scott. We were
buddies, but he doesn't have anything for me now.
I was just doing my job. We
worked this case to the bone. There's evidence
she did this to herself. There's evidence she
(12:29):
didn't. I ask all our
investigators if anyone thinks there's enough probable
cause, let's get a warrant. But there wasn't.
>> Tucker Simmons (12:39):
I asked him to clarify who and what the warrant would have been
for. Tom confirmed it would have been an arrest warrant for
Scott. When asked why there was never a search warrant for
Scott's home, he said they never requested one because
they didn't know what they were looking for.
Later in the conversation, he acknowledged there was something taken from
the crime scene. The object on the bed that left a
(13:00):
bloody 90 degree angle that we've discussed in previous
episodes.
>> Demmie Rice (13:04):
There was very minimal
blood on the bed. However, there
was a 90 degree
angle where
blood outlined an object,
possibly a phone,
that was removed and could not be
found.
>> Tucker Simmons (13:25):
I asked why locating that object wouldn't have constituted a
search warrant of the suspect's home. Tom
reiterated they didn't know what they were looking for. I
then asked his theory on what happened to the second bullet.
There were two shell casings, but only one bullet
recovered.
>> Narrator (13:39):
Scott and Donna were fighting Sunday night. He was with
his kids at his place behind Donna's. They heard a
gunshot, and Scott thought Donna had killed
herself. So he called her, Donna told him
there was someone outside her bedroom and she fired a
warning shot out the window.
>> Tucker Simmons (13:56):
It could be that Tom is just misremembering, but that
version of the story is not what Scott told investigators
during his interview.
When I left Tom's, I called Demmie to clarify
claims of a shot out the window. We'll get back to my
meeting with Tom in just a few. Look, I wanted
(14:17):
to clarify a couple things from my interview with Tom
Anderson.
>> Demmie Rice (14:20):
Hold on. I'm just getting in the car, I'm gonna turn the air-conditioning .
Cuz this bitch is hot.
>> Tucker Simmons (14:27):
He claims that Scott and the kids
were at their house behind Donna's on
Sunday night and they heard a gunshot. He thought she
had committed suicide, so he called, she answered
and said that someone was standing outside the window. So she
fired a warning shot. So was, was the
window broken?
>> Demmie Rice (14:46):
No, the window was not broken. However,
the window, which would
be the south side of the house,
in the bedroom, the screen had a
hole in it, but the hole in the screen was
bigger than a size of a quarter. That's
a far fetched story that, that was probably
(15:06):
concocted amongst people because he can't
keep his story straight
because he knew the gun was fired twice.
And he claimed in the interview with Tom
Anderson that Donna shot the gun
outside his children's window.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:24):
Just to refresh your memory, Demmie's notes were
incredibly detailed, especially concerning the sounds of
gunfire.
In his interviews with investigators, Scott claimed he was
at home with his kids and heard a gunshot outside his kids
bedroom window. Phone records showed he texted
Donna at 12:47am
>> Narrator (15:44):
Scott texted Donna, "shooting a gun right
outside my kids bedroom window." To which Donna
responds.
>> Donna's Narrator Voice (15:51):
What are you talking about? I'm, in bed.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:54):
So where did the story about someone outside Donna's window
and a warning shot come from? On top
of that, Scott's ex wife couldn't remember if her kids even
heard the gunfire or if it was Scott who told them about
it. Which, if I were to speculate again, does
make it possible he told them about the gunfire in case they
heard it. And the origins of that gunfire was actually the
altercation that resulted in Donna's death.
(16:17):
Now back to Tom. I asked him about the allegations that
Scott was allowed to go from the scene to his house and
change clothes with no supervision. Tom refuted
those claims.
>> Narrator (16:27):
I escorted him to his house. I watched him strip
down. We put his clothes in a bag for gunfire
residue. There was none. There were no
bruises or defensive marks on his body.
Could he have showered before he ever called in the death?
Of course I ask him, but there's no way
of knowing.
>> Tucker Simmons (16:46):
Perhaps a search warrant on the home would have been helpful.
I also asked Tom about the statement to the paper announcing
Donna's death was officially a suicide. I've hounded
on it, I know, but there's never been an explanation.
>> Narrator (16:58):
That statement was not my doing. That was Chief Mike
Haley. I asked him about it, and he said
it was a casual conversation with Steve at the Era
Leader. It was never meant to be published.
I was upset about the article, and had it been
corrected, I think it may have taken a lot of the heat off of
me.
>> Tucker Simmons (17:17):
Mike Haley has never returned my calls, But I have a
hard time believing Mr. Steve at the Era Leader would expose an off
the record conversation. He and I have exchanged many off the
record emails, and I know he values that
understanding. Mr. Steve has confirmed the
communication with Mike Haley regarding Donna's manner of death
was an email exchange. I don't know about
y'all, but I've never had a, casual conversation
(17:39):
via email.
Toward the end of my conversation with Tom, I circled back
about why he was so convinced of suicide. Multiple people
who were on scene and who worked the case have said he was
almost belligerent and even argued with his detective, Raymond
Myers, about bringing in the state police crime lab to
process the scene.
>> Narrator (18:01):
It wasn't just Clay who had told me in years past that
Donna was suicidal. They would say
even if she threatened it, she would never do it.
Well, okay, but our detectives were
split 50 50. Raymond
got mad at me on scene because he wanted to call the state
police crime lab, and it pissed him off that I
(18:21):
asked why. Then he came back and
apologized. Why do you think I told him to go
ahead? The crime lab doesn't come out to
suicides.
It's easy for people to dog me out and all
that, but I stand by our work on the
case. And if Clay and everyone else would have
just left it alone and let us do our jobs, I
(18:42):
think we could have solved it.
>> Tucker Simmons (18:47):
We left off on a cordial note. Tom shared that he's
had a lot of health issues recently and was hoping I wouldn't trash
him in my story. I'm not out to trash anyone,
but the questions have to be asked. I think he took that as
some personal vendetta against him. His memory of
certain details contradict what others have told me and even
more so, contradict suspect statements to
investigators. So, no, it's not personal.
(19:10):
It's about airing it all out so we can get to the facts, which
are probably somewhere in the middle.
I mentioned in the last episode that it was time to go
public. For weeks, the team and I contemplated the best way
to notify the public that Donna's death was ruled a
(19:30):
homicide and to seek tips from those who had information.
Social media ads, a column in the paper tipping
off local media. It was all on the table. But
there's nothing quite like a billboard in the center of
town. It had to be provocative, both
visual and in location. Across the street from the
Washington Parish sheriff's office felt appropriate.
Before installing, I called a few sources for advice on
(19:53):
approaching Scott for an interview. As usual,
Demmie was the only one willing to go on the record
You there.
>> Demmie Rice (20:05):
Yeah, you call and tell me
>> Tucker Simmons (20:07):
I wanted to get my recorder on. That's why. So I am
in Franklinton because the billboard is ready.
I'm trying to decide if I want to
attempt to speak with Scott before that happens.
I have no doubt that he's already been notified and he
knows that someone's digging in. But once the billboard goes
up, I mean, like, all bets are off. I mean, everyone's gonna have their guard up, I would
(20:28):
imagine.
>> Demmie Rice (20:29):
I want to watch them put that billboard up!
>> Tucker Simmons (20:32):
Like, if you were investigating this, would
you, you would want to speak with the
suspect before, you know, a bunch of news hit, I
would imagine, right? Or, like, what's your opinion?
>> Demmie Rice (20:43):
I would have been tried to talk to him. You have to
play into it. I would have went to him like, hey, you
know, we understand that, you know, y'all in a
relationship. How is it being falsely
accused? And what you do is you keep on
baiting them. Then, you compare
his statements to you, then his
statements that's in the report.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:05):
Yeah.
>> Demmie Rice (21:06):
And he's gonna trip up. He won't remember
those details. He'll screw up.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:11):
I just don't want to jump the gun and do that and then not
have enough people prepared
to, you know, follow his movements for a couple
days. But it's almost to the point where
the story is developing quickly and people are finding out. So I think I might
need to just do it.
>> Demmie Rice (21:28):
I don't know Tuck, I really don't
know. But I guarantee if you can get in with that
and play him off as, you know, we
filing up on cold cases, and
we found that, you know, it was a turbulent
relationship and you were being
accused, you know, would you like to give us your side, tell
(21:48):
us what happened? Because I guarantee
he's not going to remember the details he said
before.
>> Tucker Simmons (21:55):
As fate would have it, my Producer and I were driving through
Franklinton and recognized Scott's vehicle
>> Producer (22:01):
Just got closed in that white car.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:03):
Oh, that's Scott.
>> Producer (22:05):
It's a GMC or something or other.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:07):
Oh, that's him. That's it.
>> Producer (22:09):
Okay.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:13):
Yeah, it's gotta be. He took the side road.
>> Producer (22:15):
Yeah.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:16):
He's probably just going back home, though.
>> Producer (22:17):
Yeah.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:24):
We were hoping to approach him in public, but we were out of
time. We waited a bit, knowing he was home
and hoping it would stop raining. It never did. So we
pulled into his driveway. The same home Aunt Donna
lived and worked in for decades. The same home where she
was murdered.
(22:53):
What's up, man? Hey.
>> Scott (22:54):
How you doing?
>> Tucker Simmons (22:55):
Good. my name is Tucker. We're working on a story about Cold
Case with you.
>> Scott (22:59):
Yes.
>> Tucker Simmons (22:59):
About the Donald Arms in the case. Yeah, we're just curious
about if you want to talk to us about it.
>> Scott (23:05):
No, my girlfriend is fixing to come because we are going to
the movies.
>> Tucker Simmons (23:08):
Okay. Scott cracked the door open, placed his arm across the
opening, and rested his hand on the door frame.
He was visibly shaken by two strangers at his door,
and his voice was cracking. I reminded him that
Donna's case has officially ruled a homicide and asked
him what he thinks should happen to bring justice for the woman he
loved.
>> Scott (23:26):
You know, Dr. Thomas was
a coroner for a long time,
he's one of my good friends. And he
said, you know, that can go either
way, depending on,
you know, who it is. I
mean, you know, like I said,
(23:47):
a couple of these women pushed the theory
that somebody could have killed her,
and my kids were
questioned.
You know, do you think that bothered me?
It bothered me, too. Of course it did.
I mean, who wouldn't, you know?
(24:09):
Yeah, that's pretty sickening, too,
that I was a suspect. I mean, that
was pretty sickening.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:17):
Yeah, that didn't really answer my question.
Scott has maintained he was madly in love with Donna and
wanted to work it out with her. So any response other than
fighting like hell to expose the mishandling of the investigation
and finding who killed her strikes me as odd. He
was visibly angry when explaining his disdain for being a
suspect, but that's pretty normal, especially for
(24:38):
someone with the history he had with Donna.
But you guys were together at the time.
>> Scott (24:43):
What's that?
>> Tucker Simmons (24:44):
You guys were together at the time of her death or.
>> Scott (24:48):
Yeah, I'm done with talking. I went up
there voluntarily and told them
everything. I
had nothing to hide
whatsoever. Yeah, I didn't bring an attorney
or nothing. You know, if you want to go get a copy of
that. You welcome to.
I don't want to talk about this.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:10):
Scott stepped out the Door and stuck his head around the house for a
view of the driveway. Unfortunately, this is where our
conversation ended. I immediately regretted not pressing
him harder from the start. I'm
no body language expert, but there was one major
takeaway. As Demmie would probably say,
he was scared as shit.
The next evening, in the dark of night, on the wall of a
(25:32):
local bail bonds office, we installed a 6 by
15 foot banner that reads (25:35):
There's a murderer
among us. Official ruling
homicide. We included a photo of Donna, a
tip line, and a website address to upload files and
documentation anonymously. By sunrise the next
morning, all hell broke loose.
>> Narrator (25:52):
He was always stalking her and stalking people that she talked
to. You need to look into.
>> Tucker Simmons (26:02):
The tip line lit up nonstop. A photo got shared
on facebook and the gossip groups were on fire. And
more people than I expected believed the newspaper headline that
Donna did this to herself. Friends of Donna,
friends of suspects, local pastors, elected
officials. Everyone was reaching out with what they knew and what they
had heard for six years in order to protect them.
(26:22):
I've chosen not to play those voicemails right now.
I got the feeling that no one wanted to be the one to stir up the
hornet's nest, but as soon as it was swarming, they couldn't
wait to tell all. I didn't expect it to happen so
quickly, but it was definitely reassuring.
Most people felt like what they had wouldn't be helpful, but when
compiled, things were adding up. And then the
(26:44):
rumor mill took hold. I got call after call
asking if I was doing this for political purposes.
Obviously, I was aware of the sheriff's election coming up, but at the
time, we were years into this investigation, the
theory that a man named Jason Smith was responsible for the
sign took off.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (27:02):
I'm a retired marine who runs a farm here
in Mount Hermon. I'm a father, I've got five
kids, I'm married to a public school teacher, and
I want to be the next Sheriff of Washington Parish. The farm
has been in my family for about as long as
Washington Parish has been here. There's always a fence that needs to be
mended. There's always a cow that's in the wrong spot.
(27:23):
If you don't take care of the things that need to get taken care care of and just
continue to do things the way you've always done it, things are not going to
get better. And the same goes for our Parish.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:34):
Jason was running for Sheriff against Randy Seal and two
other men in what would become a volatile campaign.
In Louisiana, the Sheriff is also responsible for
collecting Sales tax. I'll spare you all the
details, but prior to launching his campaign, Sheriff
Randy seal sued Jason for unpaid sales
tax. Jason won the case with the support of
(27:54):
many elected officials. And as he put it during the campaign,
throughout that legal process, his eyes were open to just
how poorly the sheriff's office was managed.
I called him about all the billboard rumors.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (28:06):
I could probably understand how people think because of
just the timing, because we're in this middle of this campaign. It
might be politically motivated, But I didn't
really know anything about Donna's case.
I still don't know anything about Donna's case, except that it
kind of was unresolved. So my
reservations or my problems with the current
(28:26):
administration don't really have anything to do with Donna's case, because I don't know anything about
it. I mean, if
I've been pretty clear about some of the
things I'm dissatisfied with with the current administration,
I don't know. I guess I feel that if
people think that it's a political stunt
because it's going to reflect negatively on
(28:47):
Randy, I mean, that probably tells you
everything you need to know about how it was handled in the first place.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:55):
As part of our investigation, we launched the Who Killed Donna
Arceneaux Facebook group. We posted a statement
there to dispel the rumors and moved on.
Shortly after, Sheriff Randy seal installed a
campaign sign next to ours. Same
size, same wall, inches apart.
Once again, the rumor mill ran wild,
(29:15):
with many believing he and the sheriff's office were responsible for
Donna's sign, as if they were working diligently to
solve the case. As disrespectful as his
stunt was, it was all the proof we needed. The
billboard was sending shockwaves throughout the community.
It was effective. Donna's case was the topic of
conversation at nearly every campaign event and debate
(29:35):
forum. Community leaders were forced to
acknowledge the shortcomings of the initial investigation.
And although this has never been a political endeavor, after four
years of investigating, it's now my belief that the
unsolved status of Donna's case is directly
linked to the lack of oversight and accountability at the
Washington Parish Sheriff's Office.
(30:02):
As the gossip around town was swirling, a laundry list of
names were coming into the tip line. One in
particular stood out. Tommy.
Even prior to the billboard installation, the name had come up in
multiple conversations and in investigative files.
I had a feeling why, but I was holding off as long as
possible. It wasn't until an elected official
(30:23):
in Washington Parish approached me at a campaign event
with some new information that my interest in Tommy
piqued. He and Scott are cousins. They hang out a lot.
And several sources, including law enforcement officials, thought I
should make contact. I had never met him, but I did
know he had quite the reputation in the area and a slew of
protective orders filed against him. It took a while to track
him down, but I had a street name as well as the make,
(30:45):
model, and color of his vehicle. So one
afternoon while on the Mississippi Gulf coast, I took a
drive and found his house.
Hey there. Hey, man.
>> Tommy (31:03):
Hi, how you doing?
>> Tucker Simmons (31:04):
Good. My name is Tucker Simmons. I'm working, I'm
the journalist working on the Donna Arseneaux case.
I wanted to see if you would talk to me for a few minutes. People tell me
I need to talk to you, so...
>> Tommy (31:18):
Not,
...it's too close to my family. You know what I'm saying? It's too close.
And, you know, I appreciate you
asking, and I hate you came out this way, but, I am looking forward to seeing
it.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:29):
Yeah. I mean, did you know Donna well?
>> Tommy (31:32):
I knew her, I've known her for a long. She's actually a cousin of my
ex wife.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:36):
Okay. But,
>> Tommy (31:38):
But yeah, I knew her.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:40):
Obviously, there's a lot of theories about what happened. I think the reason
people wanted me to talk to you is they say that you and Scott were really
close.
>> Tommy (31:46):
Uh huh. Yeah, Scott, he's my
first cousin. We were really, really close.
And, you
know, all I can tell you, all I want to say is
that Donna, she just had a
trigger man. She just. She would flip out,
like, crazy.
(32:08):
And...
>> Tucker Simmons (32:09):
You know, look, I, I'm trying to get everybody the benefit of the
doubt. I have a lot of questions for Scott. I think
there's a lot of things that don't add up. There's a lot of people in
his life that have had bad experiences
with him. So I just wish he would
talk to me. I mean, I'm gonna have to tell his
story. And I think it would behoove him to tell his own
(32:30):
story. But we're piecing it together based on his, you know,
what he's told investigators, that kind of thing. And there's also
Clay.
>> Tommy (32:38):
You know, she had a lot of enemies. Donna
did she. She's pissed off a lot of people.
I don't think my cousin killed her. I don't think he could have. You
know, he would have never done it.
>> Tucker Simmons (32:50):
Were you aware that he was violent with her as well?
>> Tommy (32:53):
I think a lot of times, they just want him situation
where she.
He had to do Whatever he had to do to get her off of him, you know,
because the way he always explained it to me, it's like, man, she went
in one of her things last night.
>> Tucker Simmons (33:08):
The allegations of a video have been of interest to investigators
since the case was with the Washington Parish Sheriff's Office,
which made it of interest to me, given the
sensitivity of what I was about to ask. I won't be using the
audio of my question to sum it up, though.
I asked Tommy if he was aware of any compromising
situations his cousin or anyone else for that matter,
(33:28):
may have been videoed in that Donna could have used as leverage
if backed into a corner.
>> Tommy (33:33):
I think I know where you're coming with that.
Because, you know, and, I've heard it, you know, and
some of the stuff on, like, the who killed Don
Arseneaux thing on Facebook. Facebook, you know, But
I've, never suspected it, you know, or even
seen anything like that.
>> Tucker Simmons (33:51):
Yeah, it's come up in the police file as well
that, you know, there are a couple potential motives, and
if Donna was threatening to use something against. Him,
>> Tommy (33:59):
Well, that's about it, man.
>> Tucker Simmons (34:00):
Do you think you could talk to him and see if he.
>> Tommy (34:02):
I talked to me. Yeah, I talked with him. Did you have a card or something?
>> Tucker Simmons (34:05):
Yeah, let me get a card.
Although it was a denial, his demeanor changed dramatically
when I asked the question. As I've said before,
I'm, no body language expert, but that stood out,
given the details of what I've seen in Demmie's notes and heard
from other investigators about the case and this alleged
video. His reaction was very telling.
(34:25):
In my opinion, of course. I'm sure
Tommy called his cousin as soon as I left, but I had no
expectation that he would actually encourage Scott to talk to me.
It was worth a shot, though.
As helpful as the tips and public attention had been up to this
point, the most significant lead came late one evening
(34:47):
on my drive home from Louisiana.
Hey, guys. Sorry for the late call. Look,
I think we just got what we've been waiting for.
Someone just uploaded 200 plus files
via Who Killed Donna.com. I have really bad
service, so I can't get them to load, but it
looks, looks like crime scene photos and a bunch
(35:10):
of documents, so download and back them
up ASAP.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (35:33):
See something
staring back at me
Can't look it in the eyes.
There's Something Strange in the air
tonight.
>> Tucker Simmons (35:53):
Thank you guys for all the support and discussion on social media.
It's been really awesome to see the response and passion for
Donna's case. So keep the questions, theories and tips
coming in. Up next, the Louisiana State Police
deliver an update to Donna's son and the anonymous
upload that you're not going to believe. I know I
didn't. Make sure you follow rate and review on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening. It's a
(36:15):
huge help in spreading the word about Donna's case. Then head over to
freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on
the investigation and follow us on socials at Freeze
Frame Pod for exclusive content. Freeze
Frame is a But why Media Production it's written and
produced by me, Tucker Simmons, editing and
post production by Evan Disagnier, narration
(36:35):
by Greg Geringer and Kerry Lauren, and our
original music is Something Strange by Tabitha Meeks.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.