November 12, 2024 • 45 mins
As public interest in Donna's case grew, it became a frequent topic in the ongoing campaign for sheriff. It caught the attention of the Louisiana State Police, and they took action—but we quickly discovered that they weren't the only ones attempting to work the case.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Tucker Simmons (00:00):
What's up, guys? It's me again. Y'all have been showing out in the reviews, and
we really appreciate all the support. Here are a few
from the last week. Joe Tiger says
"The truth is out there. I'm really enjoying listening to the
methodical way you're breaking down the events surrounding your aunt's
tragic circumstances. It must be tough to tell a story that's
so close to you, but the truth will always come out. Keep
(00:21):
digging." Well, Joe, I can tell you we're still digging. Thanks
so much. Beau's ma says,
"Mesmerizing. This podcast has me on the edge of my
seat each week. Washington Parish is a small town with
lots of hidden secrets, and Tucker Simmons is shining the
light on one of the scariest secrets this small town
has. I pray for Donna's family that in the end,
(00:41):
the killer and those who helped cover it up are brought to justice.
Great job, Tucker. Fearless." I don't always feel
fearless, but thanks so much, Beau's Ma. And here's one
more. I'm Lovinit985 says,
"I've enjoyed every podcast. Each one leaves me wanting more.
It's a travesty that this murder case has gone cold when it could
have and should have been solved immediately. I'm on the edge of
(01:01):
my seat, waiting for the next episode. At the same time,
I'm checking local news and expecting an arrest. It's
that good." Well, thanks so much. I'm loving it. We appreciate
the support and passion for justice for Donna. And I'll see you in
the reviews next week.
>> Narrator (01:15):
The claims, views and opinions expressed are those of the
speaker and do not represent those of. But Why Media or its
Partners. All subjects are innocent until proven
guilty. This is a podcast about
difficult topics and it may not be suitable for all
audiences. Listener discretion is
advised.
>> Michelle Thomas (01:50):
These are all the photos that you were sent.
>> Tucker Simmons (01:52):
There's a couple more.
>> Michelle Thomas (01:54):
That's what I'm gonna tell you.
>> Tucker Simmons (01:56):
There's hundreds more from the crime scene.
>> Michelle Thomas (01:58):
There's hundreds more.
I know where they come from.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (02:05):
Why does he care?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (02:07):
Because Randy had him in there. That's the reason he
cares. To make it look like
Randy was trying to do everything he can to solve it because
he's losing this election.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (02:19):
So you think about all the people across Paris that don't have
closure. Don Arceneaux family is just the highest
pro. It's the one we know about. It's just the tip of the iceberg.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (02:37):
I'm feeling heavy. There's a pounding in
my Chest the shadows
hiding But I see the silhouettes
Fear lives in the quiet
whispers in the silence.
>> Tucker Simmons (02:54):
I'm Tucker Simmons, and this. Is Freeze
Frame, an investigation into the unsolved
murder of Donna Arceneaux.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (03:08):
Something strange in the air tonight.
>> Tucker Simmons (03:19):
We established at the end of episode six how Donna's case had
made its way into the campaign for Sheriff. After
years of digging for answers, her case was finally getting the
attention it deserved.
I've spoken to Donna's middle child, Brennon, periodically
throughout the years. He lived back home with his mom for a
(03:42):
while and was able to shed light on her relationships and state of
mind towards the end of her life. He's in the military
now and lives out of state with his wife and their new baby.
He was the point of contact for the sheriff's office to return the custody
of Donna's home to the family, the coroner's office,
and the crematory. I was neck
deep in leads interviews and putting pieces together, and
(04:03):
we hadn't spoken in a while. So when the billboard went up,
I checked in.
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (04:11):
As far as, like, billboard and everything, man, I haven't. I haven't been
good, to be honest with you. Yeah,
bringing up a lot of stuff. Been getting a lot
of messages, notifications.
the detective called me about a week and a half
ago. He sounded like, new detective
on case. just recently appointed.
(04:32):
and he was, like, touching base and asking who you
were. I was like, old, old
relation. Cares about my mom.
>> Tucker Simmons (04:40):
Did he say when he was assigned to the case by chance?
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (04:44):
I don't believe so. He's just touching
base and saying he was, just,
appointed to the case
>> Tucker Simmons (04:51):
If there is a new detective on the case. I mean, that's incredible
news, because that wasn't the case in June. So, you know,
whatever sparked them putting someone new on case I think is
a good development. Right.
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (05:02):
Which is what I told him. he was like, yeah, we haven't given up. And I was like, well, I
would hope not.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:05):
Investigator Hughes was assigned to Donna's case sometime
in July 2023. As far as we can tell,
whether it was before or after the billboard went up is
unclear, But I do know via a source at the
state police, there was quite a frenzy when I submitted a
records request for the case file in late June
2023. As I've said, it was
denied, as was all documentation I
(05:27):
requested dating back to 2012.
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (05:30):
I just came into the house and it was just,
ah, a wreck. Honestly, it was
the best way I can describe it. Is it wasn't my mother's house
just because of. Just how unkempt
and dirty it was, because my
mom always kept a clean house.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:48):
Were there like laptops or iPads
or SD cards and stuff like that
that you found?
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (05:55):
yeah, I found quite, a few, SD cards,
but it was mostly just, family photos. It wasn't anything
crazy. there was a recording on
the iPad, ipod of them
fighting her and Clay, that was
going through their divorcee. I, ended up giving it to my
brother, and he ended up turning into the
(06:16):
police because I'm pretty
sure I gave him, like the
one or two laptops that we found in the house.
I gave them to his dad because, you know, Scott was still,
incarcerated. So I gave him Jeff to do whatever he
wanted to with it.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:32):
And from my understanding, the family took things that they wanted
and the rest went to the flea market. Is that correct?
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (06:38):
Yeah, pretty much. and.
And then, what this was. This was a thing
that, I don't know. It was. That was weird to me.
I found out later that, from the
lady that owns the flea market, that Scott, came and
bought pretty much everything and put it
back in the house.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:00):
I had heard this previously and found it strange, too.
For a long time, I thought Donna's bed was also purchased
back, which would be frightening. But I've
since learned it was actually left behind when Lee Kelly, the
owner of a local consignment store and flea market,
completed her cleanout of the home. Lee
confirmed Scott made two trips to her shop in Franklinton.
The first visit, he purchased the bulk of the items he wanted
(07:23):
back. The second time, he was looking for a
lamp. Lee referred to it as a ginger
jar style lamp with what looked like a homemade
lampshade made of an old sweater.
Buying furniture and items back doesn't make you a
killer, and everyone grieves differently, but it does
strike me as kind of weird, given the circumstances.
The other thing that caught my attention after the billboard went
(07:45):
up was how many people were itching to share what they knew.
I mean, a ton of people were writing in with various
incidents they witnessed at Donna's home, screenshots
of text messages and theories of their own.
A lot about Clay and Donna's rough marriage and what some
classified as violent and obsessive. Several
suggesting Michelle's boyfriend John had more to do with the night
(08:06):
Donna was killed than anyone knows, though I've not made
any connections to support that. And most of the allegations
were in reference to his two previous marriages. For
legal purposes, I won't go into the details, but
based on statements to investigators that we've obtained, his
behavior with Donna may not be isolated.
As we sifted through all the tips, One name stood out in a
(08:27):
majority of Michelle thomas, Donna's
spiritual counselor. As I've stated a few
times before, the rumors about michelle run far
and wide, and many people believe she's either responsible for
donna's murder or, at the very least, was there when
it happened. I've based my opinion on
Michelle, on her involvement in Donna's case,
not the things I hear about her. For the
(08:49):
record, we did a lot of digging into
Michelle. Her story is very well
documented and I find her credible. But the constant focus
on Michelle is detrimental to Donna's case.
It's wasting time and energy. And if I'm wrong,
I'll be the first to admit it. I didn't plan
on going deep into the allegations, but after our
due diligence in the investigation, it was clear to me many of the
(09:12):
rumors were not true. However,
after the tidal wave of concerns submitted through the tip
line, I feel an obligation to address the most common
ones in detail so we can move
on.
Do you have warrants for your arrest in Sevierville, Tennessee?
>> Michelle Thomas (09:27):
I do not and never have, no, sir.
>> Tucker Simmons (09:31):
And where would that have come from?
>> Michelle Thomas (09:33):
The same source of all the
rumors that originate and get spread.
Just someone's imagination and stuff like that
is so easily verified
or disverified. I don't even know why they would do stuff
like that.
>> Tucker Simmons (09:49):
Your first husband, I guess, was arrested for fraud.
>> Michelle Thomas (09:52):
He was.
>> Tucker Simmons (09:52):
And the allegation is that you were just as involved
as he was.
>> Michelle Thomas (09:57):
That's incorrect. first of all, the FBI
arrested him because he was in a
life of crime, of insurance
fraud. And I can assure you, just
like this case, they checked me front, back and sideways
because how could you be married to a criminal and not know it?
I guess just raised. Very sheltered. I didn't see the
(10:18):
signs. And to this day, they are
still conning people.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:23):
After a thorough search of Tennessee fugitives, There are
no records or warrants for Michelle that we found.
If anyone listening has information that we haven't been able
to obtain, Please contact
us at freezeframepodcast.com
I went on to ask Michelle about how she affords her
lifestyle on a traveling pastor's pay.
Many of the allegations suggest she's involved in her ex
(10:45):
husband's fraud.
>> Michelle Thomas (10:47):
The gospel shouldn't cost. There are times
where I've had to take my Expenses when I've traveled a
long way and I, maybe had to have a hotel room, you
can pretty much call anybody I've preached
for and I've either give the offering back or I don't take it at
all. According to my lifestyle, I'm not real sure
what they mean. My husband is retired from the
(11:07):
Air Force. He makes an incredible living.
Before I met my husband, I lived in Bogalusa
in a two bedroom shack. I would love to ask
them what lifestyle you're talking about. The lifestyle I
acquired when I met my husband because I didn't have
this lifestyle before him. So
it's easy to assume stuff
(11:27):
and Washington Parish is so noted for that. But
you gotta have fact to back it.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:32):
One of the other suggestions as to how Michelle affords her
lifestyle is that she's part of a human trafficking ring
that sells women into the sex industry and that
Michelle was potentially recruiting Donna on behalf of her
boyfriend at the time.
>> Michelle Thomas (11:46):
I'm almost just offended to even
answer that. Human
trafficking, women, where do I get these
women? Where's the evidence of that? Find one
woman that I would have done this to, don't you think I'd
be in prison? Tucker? I don't even know how to answer
that last one. Dear, dear God.
An, eye for an eye. If they're going to tell a lie,
(12:08):
if they're going to try to defame a character, make
them prove it, and if they can't, expose them for
the liar that they are.
>> Tucker Simmons (12:16):
There are people in the community who are potentially involved in a
scheme of this kind. But once again, we have
found no evidence proving Michelle is linked. If
anyone listening has proof of her involvement, please contact
us@freezeframepodcast.com
the most shocking allegation I've seen from the tip line and
on social media hits close to home. As someone
(12:37):
who's experienced a loved one suffer from cancer,
did Michelle really fake breast cancer and raise money to
get a breast augmentation?
>> Michelle Thomas (12:45):
I have medical records that I'm going to send you.
In fact, I posted them on my Facebook
after three failed
lumpectomies and they could not get
clear margins. I had to have a double
mastectomy. Tucker, ain't a person that
would ever tell you that
somebody goes and has their breasts removed with the
(13:07):
scars that I'm left with to get
fake boobs. If I showed you my
chest, you would immediately get
furious with whoever said that.
Nobody gets a double mastectomy and lives like
this.
>> Tucker Simmons (13:22):
Michelle provided her medical records and Louisiana
Medicaid statements, which do confirm she was treated
for breast cancer. I also asked the hospital to send
me the records directly. They did, and the documents
match what Michelle provided. As for
the fundraiser, Michelle claims it raised around
$1,000 to help with expenses, including getting
to and from New Orleans for treatment.
(13:44):
Finally, Michelle's sons were in and out of jail as
teens and often come up in the tip line. The most
common suggestion is that their addictions began because she was
involved in the drug business herself. And she can't be trusted
in Donna's case.
>> Michelle Thomas (13:58):
So it's the same stuff. Her husband was a
criminal. He sure was. That's why I got
away. And then my children,
because of that divorce, because of that stigma
on their dad, they got on drugs.
Because I wasn't wealthy, I had to
work 16 and 17 hours a
(14:18):
day waitressing, in Bogalusa to provide
for those children. I went from
being married to a criminal that was a
mastermind that could hide it well
to a criminal that wore a badge. I
guess my picker's wrong. So both times,
thought I was getting a man in the church. But I'm not
(14:38):
out there running them down. So if that's what
they need to do to save face.
Because God forbid Michelle ever go to talking.
Michelle might tell the conversations that went on in my
living room. Michelle might with tell
conversations that are heard at the police station.
But before Michelle gets to talking, we
(14:59):
gotta ruin her name in the community.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:02):
So much of this is irrelevant to Donna's case, and I'm sure
many of you are wondering why I even included it. To
be honest, I went back and forth on it. It's not my job to
correct the local rumor mill, but the constant focus on
Michelle has wasted so much time. I appreciate
the tips, don't get me wrong. But we've done our very
best to verify her claims pertaining to Donna's
case and feel confident in her story.
(15:25):
I'll say it again, though. If anyone listening has
actual proof of anything that would discredit Michelle's
story in relation to Donna's case, I beg
you to contact me.
The billboard generated incredibly valuable tips and
background on, Donna's state of mind before her death and those with
potential motive. But the break we had all been waiting
(15:47):
for finally came late one evening as I was driving
home from Louisiana.
Hey, guys. Sorry for the late call. Look,
I think we just got what we've been waiting for.
Someone just uploaded 200 plus files
via WhoKilledDonna.com. I have really bad service,
so I can't get them to load, but it looks like
(16:08):
crime scene photos and a bunch of documents,
so download and back them up ASAP.
Via WhoKilledDonna.com we received hundreds of
crime scene and other relevant photos in addition
to hundreds of pages of documentation on the case.
One of those documents was Donna's autopsy, which we've
already addressed, but here are a few more details.
>> Narrator (16:30):
Toxicology revealed clonazepam, known as
Klonopin, was found in Donna's system.
It's prescribed to treat anxiety, panic
disorders, epilepsy, insomnia, and other
conditions. Among its side effects, when taken
in excess are suicidal thoughts and
ideations. The levels found in Donna's
toxicology are well below the recommended daily
(16:52):
dosage. The autopsy reveals both
entry and exit wounds are 2 1/2 inches left of
the midline and 9 inches from the top of the
shoulder. Dr. DeFatta notes there's an area of soot and
searing surrounding the entrance wound with an
area measuring 5 millimeters from the 4:00 to
11:00 position and 1 centimeter from the 11:00
(17:13):
to 4:00 position. Sexual assault nurses
performed a rape gas. Evidence of blood transfer
and droplets on Donna's body were collected by the DNA
analyst attending the autopsy. And multiple
swabs for DNA and fingernail clippings were
collected.
>> Tucker Simmons (17:31):
As Dr. DeFatta has repeatedly stated, and as his
thorough autopsy proves, he always suspected
homicide. One thing was missing,
though. The official time of death states
99. 99, meaning it's
undetermined. I have an idea, though. If you
remember, Clay claimed Donna called him on Sunday
between 11pm and midnight. Investigators
(17:53):
tell me his alibi was solid and his then girlfriend
verified he did speak to Donna late that
night. The last communication from Donna's phone was
around 2am Monday morning when she sent the I
love you texts Sherry described in episode
one. Whether or not we believe Donna actually
sent those messages, there's no way of knowing right now.
So let's just say she did. That's the last time
(18:15):
anyone heard from her. It's my belief that, based
on that information and conversations with multiple
sources, Donna was killed sometime between 11pm
Sunday night and 3am Monday
morning. The most revealing details yet
were found in the 314 photos included in
the upload. Up to this point, all I
(18:35):
had were faded memories from investigators and Michelle
about what the scene really looked like. It's hard to
explain the feeling of hovering over a giant folder of
photos, knowing that for years I was able to
choose what I wanted to imagine the scene looking like, but
with the tap of my finger, it was about to be real.
No more sugarcoating. No more imagining what I
(18:56):
wanted it to look like. No more last memory
of Aunt Donna dressed to a T walking out of the grocery
store. There's been a lot of confusion in the
media about the scene, and as tough as I knew it would
be for the sake of this investigation and to
clear up the misconceptions, I knew I had to do
it.
(19:24):
The photos began at the back door. The floor
is scattered with leaves and debris from foot traffic.
A mop and broom lean against the wall next to the laundry
room, and a bag of kitchen trash is propped against the
wall on the other side of the mudroom. The laundry
room is cluttered and two baskets full of random items are on
the floor. On the kitchen counter sit glass
(19:44):
bottles that appear to be red wine, Donna's
favorite. They have no labels and are placed in a decorative
wooden box. Donna was pretty crafty, so if I had
to guess, she probably made it in front of the
bottles. Inside a cardboard tray is the shell of one
egg cracked in half. A dish
towel lies on top of a plate next to a yellow pitcher,
(20:04):
as if Donna was going to make Kool Aid or sweet tea.
The other side of the kitchen counter, where the oven is, are several
unidentifiable prescription bottles, among all the
other random things most of us also have on our counters.
The kitchen island has two vases with flowers, a fruit
bowl, and a baking sheet with what appears to be three
uncooked dinner rolls. We've
(20:26):
heard a lot about the pork chops in Donna's sink, and the next picture
confirmed it. Four thick, boneless pork
chops, each individually sealed in a freezer bag,
are thawed out on the left side of the sink.
On the lower level of the bar style kitchen table lies
a dark gray laptop. The living room was cluttered
with hairbrushes, blankets, two storage
(20:46):
bins, a container of cereal on the couch, and a
paper plate covered with chicken nuggets, a few fries and
ketchup. In the doorway between the living room and
the hallway to the bedrooms lies evidence marker number
one identifying a dried blood
droplet. Both kids rooms appear
disheveled, almost like Donna was planning to move.
Clothes piled up, hangers everywhere, a feeling
(21:09):
of chaos. Further down the hall are
evidence markers 2, 3, and 4
identifying three more dried blood droplets outside
Donna's bedroom door. And this is where
it gets tough. There's no way to prepare for what I
knew I was about to see. All the curtains
are drawn. Evidence Marker 5 sits in front of
Donna's large wooden bed, identifying another blood
(21:31):
droplet. Marker 6 identifies a shell casing
on the floor on the left side of the bed. Marker
7 is on the bed, the left side next to the murder
weapon, a 9 millimeter with a spent shell casing
lodged in the ejection port. Evidence marker 8 sits
next to the bloody 90 degree angle on the right side of the
bed. It appears to be a contact mark where
(21:52):
an item was removed. Next to it is number
nine. This is where the projectile that traveled through Donna was
found in the mattress. No blood appears to be
surrounding the entry point at the foot of the bed. On the
mattress is a green and camouflaged backpack and two
sets of keys, one with a Mercedes key
fob attached, presumably Michelle's. As
(22:12):
you might remember, she said she left her keys either on the bed
or the dresser and the detective had to go back to get
them. On the floor between the bed and the
right side nightstand is evidence marker 10
next to an iPhone with a black, orange and
camouflage case
in front of the nightstand on the right side of the bed,
(22:32):
on her back lies Donna, wearing only a
camouflage T shirt. I won't go into much
detail other than to say her lower body is marked with drops
and smudges of blood and what appears to be a
thumbprint on her inner right thigh. The
entry wound to her lower left breast is partially visible
through a tattered hole in her shirt. A few feet
away in the bathroom are evidence markers 11 and
(22:55):
12 identifying a smudge of blood on the floor and next
to it a white towel with scattered smears of
blood. After viewing these
photos, I felt sick to my stomach. I still do when I
think about it. But like on many occasions throughout this
process, I was also enraged.
How could anyone claim to be an investigator, look
(23:15):
at the facts on scene, not prior knowledge of
Donna's history with anxiety and depression, and believed
she committed suicide? I thought maybe I was just too
emotional, too close to the case. So I asked for some
advice from a couple third party investigators, one of
which recently worked a high profile case in St. Tammany
Parish. Here's what he said.
>> Retired Detective (23:38):
When that round hit her through the heart, she wouldn't have gone to
the fucking bathroom. Lividity is consistent
with the position she was found in. However,
this is what I'll tell you. There's some wacky shit
going on here. Drops and transfer onto her
legs. Her arms bent at the elbows with hands in the
air next to her chest. Those patterns
(23:58):
are Tough to explain in a suicide case. And
there's no way she fell off the bed and landed in that
position. I won't tell you it's 100%
homicide. I need to see more. But dude, this is a
fucking murder.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:16):
I'm no seasoned law enforcement officer, but I know what I saw in
those photos and I agree.
Demmie and I met a few weeks after receiving the anonymous
upload. Here's a montage of her thoughts on a few
key points.
>> Demmie Rice (24:32):
I want to point something out. Let me go back to this.
When they executed the search
warrant by Raymond Myers. Oh, ah, this was left.
Ah, that's a laptop. All that stuff was
left.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:45):
So how long after was that search warrant issued?
>> Demmie Rice (24:49):
a few days. They still had the key to the
house. This phone,
had, ah, it's a camouflage phone.
It wasn't in service. That's what she
had. seven $100 bills in
on her inner right thigh. But right
here is a thumb crack. Cuz
(25:09):
imagine if you would have picked her up, where would
your thumb be?
>> Tucker Simmons (25:14):
Between her legs.
>> Demmie Rice (25:15):
Left thumb. State police crime lab said it was smudged, they
couldn't get it. And this is like
somebody or something had to drip this
blood back down on her. These are
all the photos that were you were sent.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:29):
There's a couple more
>> Demmie Rice (25:31):
This I'm gonna tell you. There's hundreds more
>> Tucker Simmons (25:34):
From the crime scene?
>> Demmie Rice (25:35):
There's hundreds more.
I know where they come from. Who would have sent
that to you.
Wanna turn this off? Because I'm dying for a cigarette.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:47):
Okay, perfect.
We went out on the porch, the famous porch. She
had a cigarette, I had a beer. And a while later, she
put steaks on the grill. Over dinner we had
an emotional conversation about how taxing this process can
be. I have a newfound respect for law enforcement
who do this for decades and somehow find a way to
turn it all off when they get home to their loved ones. I was
(26:08):
having a hard time doing that. My obsession with solving this
case was keeping me up at night. Demmie's advice
was to take a break, clear my head and come
back to it with fresh eyes. That's what I did for a
while. The sheriff's election started heating up.
I kept a close eye and attended a few events when I
could, but otherwise laid low, reviewing tips
as they came in and planning my next move.
(26:32):
Until one morning, while on my way to get a
haircut, I got a disturbing call from Donna's
brother, T.J.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (26:40):
I just got a phone call from a guy
that wants to meet up around 2:00
to talk about Donna's case. I didn't ask him and
I should have. He was this on and on.
they brought him in to do some investigating and I said,
well, let me call Tucker and see if he knows anything about this.
I didn't even catch his name.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:00):
Do you have his phone number? What can I, can you look at what number he
called you from?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (27:04):
504.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:08):
Was he State Police, or?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (27:10):
Yeah, he, yeah, he was a retired state guy out of New
Orleans. He said it or something like that. And they called him
in to do some more investigating.
Calling you to see if you knew anything about it or if you
wanted to go with me down there or whatever.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:24):
I'm actually in Tennessee right now. I'm not going to be back down there
until, tomorrow morning actually. So
he wants to meet with you at 2pm today?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (27:33):
Yes, sir.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:34):
Okay. I mean, if he
is with the state police, then, then
you definitely should meet with them. If it's, if it's just somebody
poking around, wanting to be nosy, I would be cautious. So I
would just say confirm that he actually is a
detective with the state police.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (27:51):
Well, he's in, he's in the sheriff's office right now down in
Bogalusa. He wanted me to be the first one
that he spoke with.
Why? I have no idea.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:01):
I don't know, man. I mean, look, typically, in my experience,
typically they don't. A detective doesn't just call a family
member and like want to meet day of
last minute like this. So it's a little bit strange.
And it's also strange that the day that,
that the story is coming out on WWL.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (28:20):
That's right. Me and wifey
talked. She said you might want to call Tucker. want to call. Took her. I said, I'm
already on it. I said, I just don't. I said it's kind
of weird to me. I said he ain't spoke with nobody else,
he's wanting to speak with me.
And I know he's got the files. Because he's reading some of the stuff off,
like what Scott put down and stuff like that.
Going through the files and asking me questions about him.
(28:42):
So I know he's got them.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:45):
I mean, I, my hope is that. He's legit and he's
really trying to figure out what's going on. But the timing is a
little concerning in my opinion. So
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (28:53):
As soon as I get out of here, I'm gonna let you know what's happening.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:57):
The day TJ got this call was the same day
WWL TV New Orleans was running their
much anticipated story about Donna's case and this
podcast. Prior to receiving the call, weeks
before, I consulted a retired New Orleans Police
Department detective to review Donna's case.
At first I thought it might be him, but why would he be in
(29:18):
Washington Parish reviewing case files without letting me
know? So then I thought, maybe it's the new state
police detective on Donna's case. I think he was
also retired from New Orleans PD. But given the
family's well known lack of trust in WPSO
why would he call the victim's brother to that office?
Also odd, that he would contact TJ first. I
(29:38):
didn't think much of it because more eyes on the case is a good
thing. Or maybe not.
>> Irv Magri (President, CrimeFighters of Louisiana) (29:43):
I asked the gentleman and asked him. He
brought his wife. And, I asked him to come in
and, sit down. I was going to, you know,
overview the case and hopefully
assist. And I was well on my way to
making some real headway. And I really needed Timmy
just to be cooperative with me,
(30:04):
that's all. And I asked him to sit down three times.
To be honest with you, I just tried to help the man. Now he wants to blow it
up into a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't
need any. I don't get paid for this.
Understand the family, including
Timothy, was quite
upset, and, they've been blaming
(30:24):
everybody under the sun.
>> Tucker Simmons (30:26):
So just to confirm, the Sheriff's department is,
Is like giving you the green light to go ahead and look more
into the case.
>> Irv Magri (President, CrimeFighters of Louisiana) (30:33):
No, not after. I just know, I just got cut
off completely. No,
he's complaining to everybody who will listen right now. And so I got a phone
call saying, you know, just thank you, but
no, thank you. I said, okay. What
he could do, or you could do is
call the Sheriff and, let him know
(30:54):
that, you talked to Irv Magri and that, everything's A-OK.
That would be very nice.
>> Tucker Simmons (30:59):
Did Randy Seal reach out to you guys and ask you to take a look at
it or. Or how did it come about?
>> Irv Magri (President, CrimeFighters of Louisiana) (31:04):
Okay, hold on for a second.
Hold on, hold on.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:09):
Okay.
>> Irv Magri (President, CrimeFighters of Louisiana) (31:10):
Incoming call.
Just hold on.
Yeah, Look, I'm sorry. I've got a little problem.
I'm state president, CrimeFighters 16,000
victims. And I got a victim I gotta speak to
right now. Okay. I'm gonna try to get back
up to Washington Parish next
week, and,
(31:33):
maybe we can get Timothy to
settle down.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:38):
But just, just out of curiosity, Did Randy Seal reach out to
you and ask you to look into the case?
Hello? Irv?
And he hung up.
Irv Magri is president of CrimeFighters Fighters of
Louisiana. They call themselves a victim rights
organization, and as far as I can tell, they've played a
(31:59):
productive role in supporting victim families and
seeking justice for violent crimes in Louisiana.
I'm not sure why TJ choosing to stand was such an
issue. Irv made the point that TJ hadn't been
searched before coming in the meeting, which is why he insisted
he sit down. But having known TJ for a while
now, I can tell you he always
(32:19):
stands. I repeatedly asked how Irv ended
up on the case, because, admittedly, I was skeptical
of the motivation. Given the timing,
WWL's story would be airing within hours.
TJ and I spoke immediately after the meeting.
Unfortunately, my recording equipment didn't capture the
call. He was heated. He felt used.
He said Irv was wearing a badge and didn't treat him like
(32:42):
a grieving brother. Two
things stood out during our conversation.
One, the meeting took place in Sheriff Randy
Seal's personal office. And two,
not long before this fiasco, TJ attended
a campaign event where Sheriff Seal was present.
TJ publicly shamed him for not doing more to solve his
sister's case when he had the opportunity. It makes
(33:04):
me think maybe that's the reason TJ was the first person
contacted by Irv. Hey, Sherry, I've
got.
I've got TJ on the other line. I want to just update you guys on
my phone call with that. I just had. All right,
so Irv has his phone turned off, so he was just
going straight to voicemail. But, Sherry, thank you for that business card,
because Alton answered, sounded a little bit disheveled, and
(33:25):
gave the phone to Irv. And it sounds like there is
a massive shitstorm going down, because
that meeting did not go well. He even
asked if I would call the Sheriff. I don't know. He's freaking
out. So the Sheriff must be really unhappy that
it didn't go well.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (33:41):
Why does he care?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (33:42):
Because Randy had him in there. That's the reason he
cares.
>> Tucker Simmons (33:46):
I said, can I just confirm that you've been commissioned by the sheriff's
department and you're working with them? And he said, no, I'm
not working with them anymore. As soon as that meeting happened,
my phone's been blowing up, and the Sheriff, they told me
that it's off. Thanks, but no thanks. And that I can go home.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (34:01):
But you heard what Tucker just said.
He's not NOW, because the meeting didn't go the
way they planned it.
>> Tucker Simmons (34:08):
He is not connected to the state police. So I guess
the sheriff's department was going to do their own
story on it in some way or let him do a story
and see the case. I'm not really sure.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (34:21):
In other words, it's publicity.
>> Tucker Simmons (34:22):
He was very concerned that it
didn't go well. He wanted me to tell you that he meant no ill
will and that he just wished you had sat down,
which. But why?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (34:33):
I was not hurting nothing standing up.
>> Tucker Simmons (34:36):
I know he. He was really caught up on you
not sitting down. But I think it just
confirms what we all believe that, that it was.
So they put this guy on it to
accomplish something. And I'm not sure we're ever going to know what that
was, but
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (34:52):
To make it look like Randy was trying to do everything he can to
solve it because he's losing this election.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (34:58):
If they really wanted it solved, don't you think that they would try to call
in some other. Other people? That's right. Call
in Scott. Talk to Scott. If he's. This
guy's supposed to be who he says he is. Call
Scott in. Call anybody. Doesn't
stop with TJ.
>> Tucker Simmons (35:14):
Exactly. And like I told TJ, like no disrespect to
him, but is that really where the investigation starts, is calling
TJ? I mean, there's a lot more to do before you start calling
family.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (35:24):
I'm just in shock, honestly. But you know what, Tucker? You
don't have anything to apologize for.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (35:28):
You, ain't done nothing wrong, man.
>> Tucker Simmons (35:30):
No, I just. I just feel like.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (35:33):
But I'm telling you, we called, all three
of us. And Nicole, she ain't on the phone, but she called
it too. None of us had a good feeling about
this. He. He has to be able to
say that he's done something.
I even called in the crime stopper.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (35:52):
Yep. That's all he's worried about.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (35:55):
That's always worried about.
>> Tucker Simmons (35:57):
That backfired, didn't it?
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (36:00):
Yes, it did. I was under the understanding
that he was from the freaking state police.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (36:04):
So was I the way he explained it to me this morning.
>> Tucker Simmons (36:07):
Well, look, what I'm gonna do. I, think it's. It is important
for the state police to know that there's
someone else that has access to the case file.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (36:15):
I mean, I agree with that, most definitely.
>> Tucker Simmons (36:18):
Okay. All right, guys. Well, okay,
everybody take some Tylenol or something and
relax.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (36:26):
Relax.
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (36:28):
All right.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (36:31):
We
appreciate everything you done, Tucker man.
Yeah. If anything else comes up, I holler at
you. Sherry, I love you. Go get that youngin and,
All right, all right, all right.
>> Tucker Simmons (36:40):
Appreciate it.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (36:40):
I love you too, T.
All right, bye, Tucker. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you for everything, Tucker.
>> Tucker Simmons (36:44):
Of course, of course. Thank y'all. Bye. Bye.
A few hours after my call with TJ and Sherry, a source at
the Washington Parish sheriff's office shed more light on the
situation. According to this source,
WPSO's chief investigator, Raymond
Myers, didn't feel comfortable giving Irv Magri
access to the Arceneaux case file. Sheriff Randy
(37:07):
Seal, via his chief deputy, made clear to
Raymond he was being told, not asked,
to provide Irv Magri the case file.
Another source at the sheriff's office reached out in horror,
stating, quote, "This was a PR stunt gone
terribly wrong at the expense of the family and the state
police's case." The badge around Irv's neck
was legitimate. In April 2023,
(37:29):
about 17 months prior to this incident with
TJ, Sheriff Randy Seal fully commissioned
Irv Magri as a deputy Sheriff in Washington
Parish. Another interesting note. A few
weeks prior to the attempted meeting with TJ, Irv
Magri's CrimeFighters of Louisiana formally
endorsed Sheriff Randy Seal's reelection
campaign. Louisiana State police confirmed
(37:51):
they had no role in the matter and they were not made aware of Irv
Magri's involvement. I have a feeling I
don't need to make a conclusion for you. All I can say
is if the Sheriff was using Donna's brother as
a campaign tool, that's about as low as it gets in my
book.
During this time, Washington Parish was a week from the runoff
(38:13):
election between Randy Seal and Jason Smith.
Sheriff Seal wouldn't answer my calls after the failed meeting
with TJ, so I met with Jason for his
perspective.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (38:23):
The stereotype is that like all these
dateline shows, missing white girl is
front page news. Missing black girl nobody
knows about.
>> Tucker Simmons (38:32):
Right.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (38:33):
The importance of the Donna Arceneaux case
is essentially that it shows you that even in the
most high profile situations,
if you've got this organization that is
unable to do the things that are necessary to bring this family
justice, Donna Arceneaux family is just the
highest profile. It's the one we know about. It's just the tip of the
iceberg. There's no reason for this case to have
(38:56):
been cold. And like we were talking about earlier, if the
sheriff's job, is anything, it's to put
himself in those points of friction, you know, where things
are rubbing together and they're not moving forward. So if your case is
cold, why is it going cold? Whose
fault is it? Is it because You've got investigators that are
untrained. Is it a problem with the DA's office
not following through? Is it a problem with the medical examiner filing
(39:18):
a wrong report? Is the way you collect evidence?
Is it the way that you interrogate people? Do we need
to form a better relationship with the state police? Do we need to figure out what
you know, that's where the Sheriff should be inserting himself.
He can't have an in depth conversation to you about
legalities. He can't have an in depth discussion
about prosecutorial mismanagement
(39:38):
or none of that. It's just not going to happen.
And he's completely detached. So he does what he knows. He walks around,
shakes hands. So, when his people run into problems
and they need that assistance, whether it's top cover or
a kick in the butt, he's not there to provide it because it's inconvenient
for him. It's not. He's not comfortable with it. I mean, there's nothing
preventing him from having a public press conference, entertaining
(39:59):
questions from the public, having a town hall. I mean,
be bold enough to answer questions from the audience,
be confident enough in your knowledge of the case to be able to explain
why things are where they are. And if you're not,
then you need to fix that. I
don't think that everyone expects every case to be
solved, but they do expect some sort of
(40:21):
response from the people that are supposed to be solving it.
Even the state police says there's a different standard in Washington Parish
and that's not a good thing. There's nowhere to
go but up.
>> Tucker Simmons (40:31):
So what do you say to. People who say,
oh, Jason's just running because Randy sued him. What is
your response to that allegation?
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (40:40):
Well, I mean, the short answer is there is some
truth to it only because that's what's
opened my eyes to all m of the other things that
are going on. I mean, you can't hear other people's
stories and think that everything's fine.
I mean, I didn't choose to get sued. He
sued us because we were following the law. And so that put me
(41:01):
in a position to be the person
that heard all of these stories. But if
that's all that it was, the smart move would have been
for me to put my money behind somebody else that I thought
could beat him. Listen, I got out of the Marine Corps
to avoid politics. I didn't want to get into politics. I
have a very low opinion of politics and a very low opinion of
(41:21):
politicians. I'm not trying to be a
politician. I'm trying to be the Sheriff. I'm not running for governor.
I'm not running for representative. This is not a stepping stone to
anything. This is because I chose to move back
here. I chose to raise my family here, and I want it to be a place
where we've got an organization that's actually devoted to public
safety, not being run as an extension of a reelection
campaign.
>> Tucker Simmons (41:43):
I was in Washington Parish the week of the election and
all the talk was about who's going to be Sheriff. At least amongst
the people I saw. Some felt Sheriff Seal had
taken too much heat as a result of a tough campaign
Donna's case, and they supported him
wholeheartedly. Others would frantically approach,
asking who I thought would win and who I thought would help advance our
mission of seeking justice for Donna. Going
(42:05):
into this four years ago, a campaign was so far
removed from what I was trying to accomplish, I didn't even
think about it. But now that it was right here upon us and
with what I had uncovered about Donna's case, of course I
had an opinion. But we are in Washington Parish
and change isn't always welcomed.
>> News Anchor (42:22):
Randy Seal was hoping to keep the title
he's held since 2012, but his
challenger, Jason Smith, believed his military
background. Gave him the upper edge for Sheriff. A higher
turnout in Washington Parish. However, 41%
of voters hit the polls today.
>> Tucker Simmons (42:52):
We're nearing the end of Part one and still have a lot of unknowns. But
based on past actions, motive and access to
Donna, my theory shaping up. In episode
eight, we'll dive into new revelations about a suspect's changing
story. My attempt to talk to Scott again goes south
before he even gets started, and someone I've wanted to talk
to for years finally makes contact. Make sure
you follow rate and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify
(43:15):
or wherever you're listening. It's a huge help in spreading the word about
Donna's case. Then head over to
freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on
the investigation and follow us on socials @freezeframepod Freeze
Frame Pod for exclusive content. Freeze
Frame is a But Why Media production. It's written and
produced by me, Tucker Simmons, editing and
post production by Evan Desaulnier narration
(43:37):
by Greg Gehringer and Carrie Loren and our
original music is "Something Strange" by Tabitha Meeks.
What's up, guys? It's me again. Y'all have been showing out in the reviews, and
we really appreciate all the support. Here are a few
from the last week. Joe Tiger says
"The truth is out there. I'm really enjoying listening to the
methodical way you're breaking down the events surrounding your aunt's
tragic circumstances. It must be tough to tell a story that's
so close to you, but the truth will always come out. Keep
(00:21):
digging." Well, Joe, I can tell you we're still digging. Thanks
so much. Beau's ma says,
"Mesmerizing. This podcast has me on the edge of my
seat each week. Washington Parish is a small town with
lots of hidden secrets, and Tucker Simmons is shining the
light on one of the scariest secrets this small town
has. I pray for Donna's family that in the end,
(00:41):
the killer and those who helped cover it up are brought to justice.
Great job, Tucker. Fearless." I don't always feel
fearless, but thanks so much, Beau's Ma. And here's one
more. I'm Lovinit985 says,
"I've enjoyed every podcast. Each one leaves me wanting more.
It's a travesty that this murder case has gone cold when it could
have and should have been solved immediately. I'm on the edge of
(01:01):
my seat, waiting for the next episode. At the same time,
I'm checking local news and expecting an arrest. It's
that good." Well, thanks so much. I'm loving it. We appreciate
the support and passion for justice for Donna. And I'll see you in
the reviews next week.
>> Narrator (01:15):
The claims, views and opinions expressed are those of the
speaker and do not represent those of. But Why Media or its
Partners. All subjects are innocent until proven
guilty. This is a podcast about
difficult topics and it may not be suitable for all
audiences. Listener discretion is
advised.
>> Michelle Thomas (01:50):
These are all the photos that you were sent.
>> Tucker Simmons (01:52):
There's a couple more.
>> Michelle Thomas (01:54):
That's what I'm gonna tell you.
>> Tucker Simmons (01:56):
There's hundreds more from the crime scene.
>> Michelle Thomas (01:58):
There's hundreds more.
I know where they come from.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (02:05):
Why does he care?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (02:07):
Because Randy had him in there. That's the reason he
cares. To make it look like
Randy was trying to do everything he can to solve it because
he's losing this election.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (02:19):
So you think about all the people across Paris that don't have
closure. Don Arceneaux family is just the highest
pro. It's the one we know about. It's just the tip of the iceberg.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (02:37):
I'm feeling heavy. There's a pounding in
my Chest the shadows
hiding But I see the silhouettes
Fear lives in the quiet
whispers in the silence.
>> Tucker Simmons (02:54):
I'm Tucker Simmons, and this. Is Freeze
Frame, an investigation into the unsolved
murder of Donna Arceneaux.
>> 'Something Strange' by Tabitha Meeks (03:08):
Something strange in the air tonight.
>> Tucker Simmons (03:19):
We established at the end of episode six how Donna's case had
made its way into the campaign for Sheriff. After
years of digging for answers, her case was finally getting the
attention it deserved.
I've spoken to Donna's middle child, Brennon, periodically
throughout the years. He lived back home with his mom for a
(03:42):
while and was able to shed light on her relationships and state of
mind towards the end of her life. He's in the military
now and lives out of state with his wife and their new baby.
He was the point of contact for the sheriff's office to return the custody
of Donna's home to the family, the coroner's office,
and the crematory. I was neck
deep in leads interviews and putting pieces together, and
(04:03):
we hadn't spoken in a while. So when the billboard went up,
I checked in.
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (04:11):
As far as, like, billboard and everything, man, I haven't. I haven't been
good, to be honest with you. Yeah,
bringing up a lot of stuff. Been getting a lot
of messages, notifications.
the detective called me about a week and a half
ago. He sounded like, new detective
on case. just recently appointed.
(04:32):
and he was, like, touching base and asking who you
were. I was like, old, old
relation. Cares about my mom.
>> Tucker Simmons (04:40):
Did he say when he was assigned to the case by chance?
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (04:44):
I don't believe so. He's just touching
base and saying he was, just,
appointed to the case
>> Tucker Simmons (04:51):
If there is a new detective on the case. I mean, that's incredible
news, because that wasn't the case in June. So, you know,
whatever sparked them putting someone new on case I think is
a good development. Right.
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (05:02):
Which is what I told him. he was like, yeah, we haven't given up. And I was like, well, I
would hope not.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:05):
Investigator Hughes was assigned to Donna's case sometime
in July 2023. As far as we can tell,
whether it was before or after the billboard went up is
unclear, But I do know via a source at the
state police, there was quite a frenzy when I submitted a
records request for the case file in late June
2023. As I've said, it was
denied, as was all documentation I
(05:27):
requested dating back to 2012.
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (05:30):
I just came into the house and it was just,
ah, a wreck. Honestly, it was
the best way I can describe it. Is it wasn't my mother's house
just because of. Just how unkempt
and dirty it was, because my
mom always kept a clean house.
>> Tucker Simmons (05:48):
Were there like laptops or iPads
or SD cards and stuff like that
that you found?
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (05:55):
yeah, I found quite, a few, SD cards,
but it was mostly just, family photos. It wasn't anything
crazy. there was a recording on
the iPad, ipod of them
fighting her and Clay, that was
going through their divorcee. I, ended up giving it to my
brother, and he ended up turning into the
(06:16):
police because I'm pretty
sure I gave him, like the
one or two laptops that we found in the house.
I gave them to his dad because, you know, Scott was still,
incarcerated. So I gave him Jeff to do whatever he
wanted to with it.
>> Tucker Simmons (06:32):
And from my understanding, the family took things that they wanted
and the rest went to the flea market. Is that correct?
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (06:38):
Yeah, pretty much. and.
And then, what this was. This was a thing
that, I don't know. It was. That was weird to me.
I found out later that, from the
lady that owns the flea market, that Scott, came and
bought pretty much everything and put it
back in the house.
>> Tucker Simmons (07:00):
I had heard this previously and found it strange, too.
For a long time, I thought Donna's bed was also purchased
back, which would be frightening. But I've
since learned it was actually left behind when Lee Kelly, the
owner of a local consignment store and flea market,
completed her cleanout of the home. Lee
confirmed Scott made two trips to her shop in Franklinton.
The first visit, he purchased the bulk of the items he wanted
(07:23):
back. The second time, he was looking for a
lamp. Lee referred to it as a ginger
jar style lamp with what looked like a homemade
lampshade made of an old sweater.
Buying furniture and items back doesn't make you a
killer, and everyone grieves differently, but it does
strike me as kind of weird, given the circumstances.
The other thing that caught my attention after the billboard went
(07:45):
up was how many people were itching to share what they knew.
I mean, a ton of people were writing in with various
incidents they witnessed at Donna's home, screenshots
of text messages and theories of their own.
A lot about Clay and Donna's rough marriage and what some
classified as violent and obsessive. Several
suggesting Michelle's boyfriend John had more to do with the night
(08:06):
Donna was killed than anyone knows, though I've not made
any connections to support that. And most of the allegations
were in reference to his two previous marriages. For
legal purposes, I won't go into the details, but
based on statements to investigators that we've obtained, his
behavior with Donna may not be isolated.
As we sifted through all the tips, One name stood out in a
(08:27):
majority of Michelle thomas, Donna's
spiritual counselor. As I've stated a few
times before, the rumors about michelle run far
and wide, and many people believe she's either responsible for
donna's murder or, at the very least, was there when
it happened. I've based my opinion on
Michelle, on her involvement in Donna's case,
not the things I hear about her. For the
(08:49):
record, we did a lot of digging into
Michelle. Her story is very well
documented and I find her credible. But the constant focus
on Michelle is detrimental to Donna's case.
It's wasting time and energy. And if I'm wrong,
I'll be the first to admit it. I didn't plan
on going deep into the allegations, but after our
due diligence in the investigation, it was clear to me many of the
(09:12):
rumors were not true. However,
after the tidal wave of concerns submitted through the tip
line, I feel an obligation to address the most common
ones in detail so we can move
on.
Do you have warrants for your arrest in Sevierville, Tennessee?
>> Michelle Thomas (09:27):
I do not and never have, no, sir.
>> Tucker Simmons (09:31):
And where would that have come from?
>> Michelle Thomas (09:33):
The same source of all the
rumors that originate and get spread.
Just someone's imagination and stuff like that
is so easily verified
or disverified. I don't even know why they would do stuff
like that.
>> Tucker Simmons (09:49):
Your first husband, I guess, was arrested for fraud.
>> Michelle Thomas (09:52):
He was.
>> Tucker Simmons (09:52):
And the allegation is that you were just as involved
as he was.
>> Michelle Thomas (09:57):
That's incorrect. first of all, the FBI
arrested him because he was in a
life of crime, of insurance
fraud. And I can assure you, just
like this case, they checked me front, back and sideways
because how could you be married to a criminal and not know it?
I guess just raised. Very sheltered. I didn't see the
(10:18):
signs. And to this day, they are
still conning people.
>> Tucker Simmons (10:23):
After a thorough search of Tennessee fugitives, There are
no records or warrants for Michelle that we found.
If anyone listening has information that we haven't been able
to obtain, Please contact
us at freezeframepodcast.com
I went on to ask Michelle about how she affords her
lifestyle on a traveling pastor's pay.
Many of the allegations suggest she's involved in her ex
(10:45):
husband's fraud.
>> Michelle Thomas (10:47):
The gospel shouldn't cost. There are times
where I've had to take my Expenses when I've traveled a
long way and I, maybe had to have a hotel room, you
can pretty much call anybody I've preached
for and I've either give the offering back or I don't take it at
all. According to my lifestyle, I'm not real sure
what they mean. My husband is retired from the
(11:07):
Air Force. He makes an incredible living.
Before I met my husband, I lived in Bogalusa
in a two bedroom shack. I would love to ask
them what lifestyle you're talking about. The lifestyle I
acquired when I met my husband because I didn't have
this lifestyle before him. So
it's easy to assume stuff
(11:27):
and Washington Parish is so noted for that. But
you gotta have fact to back it.
>> Tucker Simmons (11:32):
One of the other suggestions as to how Michelle affords her
lifestyle is that she's part of a human trafficking ring
that sells women into the sex industry and that
Michelle was potentially recruiting Donna on behalf of her
boyfriend at the time.
>> Michelle Thomas (11:46):
I'm almost just offended to even
answer that. Human
trafficking, women, where do I get these
women? Where's the evidence of that? Find one
woman that I would have done this to, don't you think I'd
be in prison? Tucker? I don't even know how to answer
that last one. Dear, dear God.
An, eye for an eye. If they're going to tell a lie,
(12:08):
if they're going to try to defame a character, make
them prove it, and if they can't, expose them for
the liar that they are.
>> Tucker Simmons (12:16):
There are people in the community who are potentially involved in a
scheme of this kind. But once again, we have
found no evidence proving Michelle is linked. If
anyone listening has proof of her involvement, please contact
us@freezeframepodcast.com
the most shocking allegation I've seen from the tip line and
on social media hits close to home. As someone
(12:37):
who's experienced a loved one suffer from cancer,
did Michelle really fake breast cancer and raise money to
get a breast augmentation?
>> Michelle Thomas (12:45):
I have medical records that I'm going to send you.
In fact, I posted them on my Facebook
after three failed
lumpectomies and they could not get
clear margins. I had to have a double
mastectomy. Tucker, ain't a person that
would ever tell you that
somebody goes and has their breasts removed with the
(13:07):
scars that I'm left with to get
fake boobs. If I showed you my
chest, you would immediately get
furious with whoever said that.
Nobody gets a double mastectomy and lives like
this.
>> Tucker Simmons (13:22):
Michelle provided her medical records and Louisiana
Medicaid statements, which do confirm she was treated
for breast cancer. I also asked the hospital to send
me the records directly. They did, and the documents
match what Michelle provided. As for
the fundraiser, Michelle claims it raised around
$1,000 to help with expenses, including getting
to and from New Orleans for treatment.
(13:44):
Finally, Michelle's sons were in and out of jail as
teens and often come up in the tip line. The most
common suggestion is that their addictions began because she was
involved in the drug business herself. And she can't be trusted
in Donna's case.
>> Michelle Thomas (13:58):
So it's the same stuff. Her husband was a
criminal. He sure was. That's why I got
away. And then my children,
because of that divorce, because of that stigma
on their dad, they got on drugs.
Because I wasn't wealthy, I had to
work 16 and 17 hours a
(14:18):
day waitressing, in Bogalusa to provide
for those children. I went from
being married to a criminal that was a
mastermind that could hide it well
to a criminal that wore a badge. I
guess my picker's wrong. So both times,
thought I was getting a man in the church. But I'm not
(14:38):
out there running them down. So if that's what
they need to do to save face.
Because God forbid Michelle ever go to talking.
Michelle might tell the conversations that went on in my
living room. Michelle might with tell
conversations that are heard at the police station.
But before Michelle gets to talking, we
(14:59):
gotta ruin her name in the community.
>> Tucker Simmons (15:02):
So much of this is irrelevant to Donna's case, and I'm sure
many of you are wondering why I even included it. To
be honest, I went back and forth on it. It's not my job to
correct the local rumor mill, but the constant focus on
Michelle has wasted so much time. I appreciate
the tips, don't get me wrong. But we've done our very
best to verify her claims pertaining to Donna's
case and feel confident in her story.
(15:25):
I'll say it again, though. If anyone listening has
actual proof of anything that would discredit Michelle's
story in relation to Donna's case, I beg
you to contact me.
The billboard generated incredibly valuable tips and
background on, Donna's state of mind before her death and those with
potential motive. But the break we had all been waiting
(15:47):
for finally came late one evening as I was driving
home from Louisiana.
Hey, guys. Sorry for the late call. Look,
I think we just got what we've been waiting for.
Someone just uploaded 200 plus files
via WhoKilledDonna.com. I have really bad service,
so I can't get them to load, but it looks like
(16:08):
crime scene photos and a bunch of documents,
so download and back them up ASAP.
Via WhoKilledDonna.com we received hundreds of
crime scene and other relevant photos in addition
to hundreds of pages of documentation on the case.
One of those documents was Donna's autopsy, which we've
already addressed, but here are a few more details.
>> Narrator (16:30):
Toxicology revealed clonazepam, known as
Klonopin, was found in Donna's system.
It's prescribed to treat anxiety, panic
disorders, epilepsy, insomnia, and other
conditions. Among its side effects, when taken
in excess are suicidal thoughts and
ideations. The levels found in Donna's
toxicology are well below the recommended daily
(16:52):
dosage. The autopsy reveals both
entry and exit wounds are 2 1/2 inches left of
the midline and 9 inches from the top of the
shoulder. Dr. DeFatta notes there's an area of soot and
searing surrounding the entrance wound with an
area measuring 5 millimeters from the 4:00 to
11:00 position and 1 centimeter from the 11:00
(17:13):
to 4:00 position. Sexual assault nurses
performed a rape gas. Evidence of blood transfer
and droplets on Donna's body were collected by the DNA
analyst attending the autopsy. And multiple
swabs for DNA and fingernail clippings were
collected.
>> Tucker Simmons (17:31):
As Dr. DeFatta has repeatedly stated, and as his
thorough autopsy proves, he always suspected
homicide. One thing was missing,
though. The official time of death states
99. 99, meaning it's
undetermined. I have an idea, though. If you
remember, Clay claimed Donna called him on Sunday
between 11pm and midnight. Investigators
(17:53):
tell me his alibi was solid and his then girlfriend
verified he did speak to Donna late that
night. The last communication from Donna's phone was
around 2am Monday morning when she sent the I
love you texts Sherry described in episode
one. Whether or not we believe Donna actually
sent those messages, there's no way of knowing right now.
So let's just say she did. That's the last time
(18:15):
anyone heard from her. It's my belief that, based
on that information and conversations with multiple
sources, Donna was killed sometime between 11pm
Sunday night and 3am Monday
morning. The most revealing details yet
were found in the 314 photos included in
the upload. Up to this point, all I
(18:35):
had were faded memories from investigators and Michelle
about what the scene really looked like. It's hard to
explain the feeling of hovering over a giant folder of
photos, knowing that for years I was able to
choose what I wanted to imagine the scene looking like, but
with the tap of my finger, it was about to be real.
No more sugarcoating. No more imagining what I
(18:56):
wanted it to look like. No more last memory
of Aunt Donna dressed to a T walking out of the grocery
store. There's been a lot of confusion in the
media about the scene, and as tough as I knew it would
be for the sake of this investigation and to
clear up the misconceptions, I knew I had to do
it.
(19:24):
The photos began at the back door. The floor
is scattered with leaves and debris from foot traffic.
A mop and broom lean against the wall next to the laundry
room, and a bag of kitchen trash is propped against the
wall on the other side of the mudroom. The laundry
room is cluttered and two baskets full of random items are on
the floor. On the kitchen counter sit glass
(19:44):
bottles that appear to be red wine, Donna's
favorite. They have no labels and are placed in a decorative
wooden box. Donna was pretty crafty, so if I had
to guess, she probably made it in front of the
bottles. Inside a cardboard tray is the shell of one
egg cracked in half. A dish
towel lies on top of a plate next to a yellow pitcher,
(20:04):
as if Donna was going to make Kool Aid or sweet tea.
The other side of the kitchen counter, where the oven is, are several
unidentifiable prescription bottles, among all the
other random things most of us also have on our counters.
The kitchen island has two vases with flowers, a fruit
bowl, and a baking sheet with what appears to be three
uncooked dinner rolls. We've
(20:26):
heard a lot about the pork chops in Donna's sink, and the next picture
confirmed it. Four thick, boneless pork
chops, each individually sealed in a freezer bag,
are thawed out on the left side of the sink.
On the lower level of the bar style kitchen table lies
a dark gray laptop. The living room was cluttered
with hairbrushes, blankets, two storage
(20:46):
bins, a container of cereal on the couch, and a
paper plate covered with chicken nuggets, a few fries and
ketchup. In the doorway between the living room and
the hallway to the bedrooms lies evidence marker number
one identifying a dried blood
droplet. Both kids rooms appear
disheveled, almost like Donna was planning to move.
Clothes piled up, hangers everywhere, a feeling
(21:09):
of chaos. Further down the hall are
evidence markers 2, 3, and 4
identifying three more dried blood droplets outside
Donna's bedroom door. And this is where
it gets tough. There's no way to prepare for what I
knew I was about to see. All the curtains
are drawn. Evidence Marker 5 sits in front of
Donna's large wooden bed, identifying another blood
(21:31):
droplet. Marker 6 identifies a shell casing
on the floor on the left side of the bed. Marker
7 is on the bed, the left side next to the murder
weapon, a 9 millimeter with a spent shell casing
lodged in the ejection port. Evidence marker 8 sits
next to the bloody 90 degree angle on the right side of the
bed. It appears to be a contact mark where
(21:52):
an item was removed. Next to it is number
nine. This is where the projectile that traveled through Donna was
found in the mattress. No blood appears to be
surrounding the entry point at the foot of the bed. On the
mattress is a green and camouflaged backpack and two
sets of keys, one with a Mercedes key
fob attached, presumably Michelle's. As
(22:12):
you might remember, she said she left her keys either on the bed
or the dresser and the detective had to go back to get
them. On the floor between the bed and the
right side nightstand is evidence marker 10
next to an iPhone with a black, orange and
camouflage case
in front of the nightstand on the right side of the bed,
(22:32):
on her back lies Donna, wearing only a
camouflage T shirt. I won't go into much
detail other than to say her lower body is marked with drops
and smudges of blood and what appears to be a
thumbprint on her inner right thigh. The
entry wound to her lower left breast is partially visible
through a tattered hole in her shirt. A few feet
away in the bathroom are evidence markers 11 and
(22:55):
12 identifying a smudge of blood on the floor and next
to it a white towel with scattered smears of
blood. After viewing these
photos, I felt sick to my stomach. I still do when I
think about it. But like on many occasions throughout this
process, I was also enraged.
How could anyone claim to be an investigator, look
(23:15):
at the facts on scene, not prior knowledge of
Donna's history with anxiety and depression, and believed
she committed suicide? I thought maybe I was just too
emotional, too close to the case. So I asked for some
advice from a couple third party investigators, one of
which recently worked a high profile case in St. Tammany
Parish. Here's what he said.
>> Retired Detective (23:38):
When that round hit her through the heart, she wouldn't have gone to
the fucking bathroom. Lividity is consistent
with the position she was found in. However,
this is what I'll tell you. There's some wacky shit
going on here. Drops and transfer onto her
legs. Her arms bent at the elbows with hands in the
air next to her chest. Those patterns
(23:58):
are Tough to explain in a suicide case. And
there's no way she fell off the bed and landed in that
position. I won't tell you it's 100%
homicide. I need to see more. But dude, this is a
fucking murder.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:16):
I'm no seasoned law enforcement officer, but I know what I saw in
those photos and I agree.
Demmie and I met a few weeks after receiving the anonymous
upload. Here's a montage of her thoughts on a few
key points.
>> Demmie Rice (24:32):
I want to point something out. Let me go back to this.
When they executed the search
warrant by Raymond Myers. Oh, ah, this was left.
Ah, that's a laptop. All that stuff was
left.
>> Tucker Simmons (24:45):
So how long after was that search warrant issued?
>> Demmie Rice (24:49):
a few days. They still had the key to the
house. This phone,
had, ah, it's a camouflage phone.
It wasn't in service. That's what she
had. seven $100 bills in
on her inner right thigh. But right
here is a thumb crack. Cuz
(25:09):
imagine if you would have picked her up, where would
your thumb be?
>> Tucker Simmons (25:14):
Between her legs.
>> Demmie Rice (25:15):
Left thumb. State police crime lab said it was smudged, they
couldn't get it. And this is like
somebody or something had to drip this
blood back down on her. These are
all the photos that were you were sent.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:29):
There's a couple more
>> Demmie Rice (25:31):
This I'm gonna tell you. There's hundreds more
>> Tucker Simmons (25:34):
From the crime scene?
>> Demmie Rice (25:35):
There's hundreds more.
I know where they come from. Who would have sent
that to you.
Wanna turn this off? Because I'm dying for a cigarette.
>> Tucker Simmons (25:47):
Okay, perfect.
We went out on the porch, the famous porch. She
had a cigarette, I had a beer. And a while later, she
put steaks on the grill. Over dinner we had
an emotional conversation about how taxing this process can
be. I have a newfound respect for law enforcement
who do this for decades and somehow find a way to
turn it all off when they get home to their loved ones. I was
(26:08):
having a hard time doing that. My obsession with solving this
case was keeping me up at night. Demmie's advice
was to take a break, clear my head and come
back to it with fresh eyes. That's what I did for a
while. The sheriff's election started heating up.
I kept a close eye and attended a few events when I
could, but otherwise laid low, reviewing tips
as they came in and planning my next move.
(26:32):
Until one morning, while on my way to get a
haircut, I got a disturbing call from Donna's
brother, T.J.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (26:40):
I just got a phone call from a guy
that wants to meet up around 2:00
to talk about Donna's case. I didn't ask him and
I should have. He was this on and on.
they brought him in to do some investigating and I said,
well, let me call Tucker and see if he knows anything about this.
I didn't even catch his name.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:00):
Do you have his phone number? What can I, can you look at what number he
called you from?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (27:04):
504.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:08):
Was he State Police, or?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (27:10):
Yeah, he, yeah, he was a retired state guy out of New
Orleans. He said it or something like that. And they called him
in to do some more investigating.
Calling you to see if you knew anything about it or if you
wanted to go with me down there or whatever.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:24):
I'm actually in Tennessee right now. I'm not going to be back down there
until, tomorrow morning actually. So
he wants to meet with you at 2pm today?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (27:33):
Yes, sir.
>> Tucker Simmons (27:34):
Okay. I mean, if he
is with the state police, then, then
you definitely should meet with them. If it's, if it's just somebody
poking around, wanting to be nosy, I would be cautious. So I
would just say confirm that he actually is a
detective with the state police.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (27:51):
Well, he's in, he's in the sheriff's office right now down in
Bogalusa. He wanted me to be the first one
that he spoke with.
Why? I have no idea.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:01):
I don't know, man. I mean, look, typically, in my experience,
typically they don't. A detective doesn't just call a family
member and like want to meet day of
last minute like this. So it's a little bit strange.
And it's also strange that the day that,
that the story is coming out on WWL.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (28:20):
That's right. Me and wifey
talked. She said you might want to call Tucker. want to call. Took her. I said, I'm
already on it. I said, I just don't. I said it's kind
of weird to me. I said he ain't spoke with nobody else,
he's wanting to speak with me.
And I know he's got the files. Because he's reading some of the stuff off,
like what Scott put down and stuff like that.
Going through the files and asking me questions about him.
(28:42):
So I know he's got them.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:45):
I mean, I, my hope is that. He's legit and he's
really trying to figure out what's going on. But the timing is a
little concerning in my opinion. So
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (28:53):
As soon as I get out of here, I'm gonna let you know what's happening.
>> Tucker Simmons (28:57):
The day TJ got this call was the same day
WWL TV New Orleans was running their
much anticipated story about Donna's case and this
podcast. Prior to receiving the call, weeks
before, I consulted a retired New Orleans Police
Department detective to review Donna's case.
At first I thought it might be him, but why would he be in
(29:18):
Washington Parish reviewing case files without letting me
know? So then I thought, maybe it's the new state
police detective on Donna's case. I think he was
also retired from New Orleans PD. But given the
family's well known lack of trust in WPSO
why would he call the victim's brother to that office?
Also odd, that he would contact TJ first. I
(29:38):
didn't think much of it because more eyes on the case is a good
thing. Or maybe not.
>> Irv Magri (President, CrimeFighters of Louisiana) (29:43):
I asked the gentleman and asked him. He
brought his wife. And, I asked him to come in
and, sit down. I was going to, you know,
overview the case and hopefully
assist. And I was well on my way to
making some real headway. And I really needed Timmy
just to be cooperative with me,
(30:04):
that's all. And I asked him to sit down three times.
To be honest with you, I just tried to help the man. Now he wants to blow it
up into a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't
need any. I don't get paid for this.
Understand the family, including
Timothy, was quite
upset, and, they've been blaming
(30:24):
everybody under the sun.
>> Tucker Simmons (30:26):
So just to confirm, the Sheriff's department is,
Is like giving you the green light to go ahead and look more
into the case.
>> Irv Magri (President, CrimeFighters of Louisiana) (30:33):
No, not after. I just know, I just got cut
off completely. No,
he's complaining to everybody who will listen right now. And so I got a phone
call saying, you know, just thank you, but
no, thank you. I said, okay. What
he could do, or you could do is
call the Sheriff and, let him know
(30:54):
that, you talked to Irv Magri and that, everything's A-OK.
That would be very nice.
>> Tucker Simmons (30:59):
Did Randy Seal reach out to you guys and ask you to take a look at
it or. Or how did it come about?
>> Irv Magri (President, CrimeFighters of Louisiana) (31:04):
Okay, hold on for a second.
Hold on, hold on.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:09):
Okay.
>> Irv Magri (President, CrimeFighters of Louisiana) (31:10):
Incoming call.
Just hold on.
Yeah, Look, I'm sorry. I've got a little problem.
I'm state president, CrimeFighters 16,000
victims. And I got a victim I gotta speak to
right now. Okay. I'm gonna try to get back
up to Washington Parish next
week, and,
(31:33):
maybe we can get Timothy to
settle down.
>> Tucker Simmons (31:38):
But just, just out of curiosity, Did Randy Seal reach out to
you and ask you to look into the case?
Hello? Irv?
And he hung up.
Irv Magri is president of CrimeFighters Fighters of
Louisiana. They call themselves a victim rights
organization, and as far as I can tell, they've played a
(31:59):
productive role in supporting victim families and
seeking justice for violent crimes in Louisiana.
I'm not sure why TJ choosing to stand was such an
issue. Irv made the point that TJ hadn't been
searched before coming in the meeting, which is why he insisted
he sit down. But having known TJ for a while
now, I can tell you he always
(32:19):
stands. I repeatedly asked how Irv ended
up on the case, because, admittedly, I was skeptical
of the motivation. Given the timing,
WWL's story would be airing within hours.
TJ and I spoke immediately after the meeting.
Unfortunately, my recording equipment didn't capture the
call. He was heated. He felt used.
He said Irv was wearing a badge and didn't treat him like
(32:42):
a grieving brother. Two
things stood out during our conversation.
One, the meeting took place in Sheriff Randy
Seal's personal office. And two,
not long before this fiasco, TJ attended
a campaign event where Sheriff Seal was present.
TJ publicly shamed him for not doing more to solve his
sister's case when he had the opportunity. It makes
(33:04):
me think maybe that's the reason TJ was the first person
contacted by Irv. Hey, Sherry, I've
got.
I've got TJ on the other line. I want to just update you guys on
my phone call with that. I just had. All right,
so Irv has his phone turned off, so he was just
going straight to voicemail. But, Sherry, thank you for that business card,
because Alton answered, sounded a little bit disheveled, and
(33:25):
gave the phone to Irv. And it sounds like there is
a massive shitstorm going down, because
that meeting did not go well. He even
asked if I would call the Sheriff. I don't know. He's freaking
out. So the Sheriff must be really unhappy that
it didn't go well.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (33:41):
Why does he care?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (33:42):
Because Randy had him in there. That's the reason he
cares.
>> Tucker Simmons (33:46):
I said, can I just confirm that you've been commissioned by the sheriff's
department and you're working with them? And he said, no, I'm
not working with them anymore. As soon as that meeting happened,
my phone's been blowing up, and the Sheriff, they told me
that it's off. Thanks, but no thanks. And that I can go home.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (34:01):
But you heard what Tucker just said.
He's not NOW, because the meeting didn't go the
way they planned it.
>> Tucker Simmons (34:08):
He is not connected to the state police. So I guess
the sheriff's department was going to do their own
story on it in some way or let him do a story
and see the case. I'm not really sure.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (34:21):
In other words, it's publicity.
>> Tucker Simmons (34:22):
He was very concerned that it
didn't go well. He wanted me to tell you that he meant no ill
will and that he just wished you had sat down,
which. But why?
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (34:33):
I was not hurting nothing standing up.
>> Tucker Simmons (34:36):
I know he. He was really caught up on you
not sitting down. But I think it just
confirms what we all believe that, that it was.
So they put this guy on it to
accomplish something. And I'm not sure we're ever going to know what that
was, but
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (34:52):
To make it look like Randy was trying to do everything he can to
solve it because he's losing this election.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (34:58):
If they really wanted it solved, don't you think that they would try to call
in some other. Other people? That's right. Call
in Scott. Talk to Scott. If he's. This
guy's supposed to be who he says he is. Call
Scott in. Call anybody. Doesn't
stop with TJ.
>> Tucker Simmons (35:14):
Exactly. And like I told TJ, like no disrespect to
him, but is that really where the investigation starts, is calling
TJ? I mean, there's a lot more to do before you start calling
family.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (35:24):
I'm just in shock, honestly. But you know what, Tucker? You
don't have anything to apologize for.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (35:28):
You, ain't done nothing wrong, man.
>> Tucker Simmons (35:30):
No, I just. I just feel like.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (35:33):
But I'm telling you, we called, all three
of us. And Nicole, she ain't on the phone, but she called
it too. None of us had a good feeling about
this. He. He has to be able to
say that he's done something.
I even called in the crime stopper.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (35:52):
Yep. That's all he's worried about.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (35:55):
That's always worried about.
>> Tucker Simmons (35:57):
That backfired, didn't it?
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (36:00):
Yes, it did. I was under the understanding
that he was from the freaking state police.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (36:04):
So was I the way he explained it to me this morning.
>> Tucker Simmons (36:07):
Well, look, what I'm gonna do. I, think it's. It is important
for the state police to know that there's
someone else that has access to the case file.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (36:15):
I mean, I agree with that, most definitely.
>> Tucker Simmons (36:18):
Okay. All right, guys. Well, okay,
everybody take some Tylenol or something and
relax.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (36:26):
Relax.
>> Brennon (Donna's Son) (36:28):
All right.
>> TJ (Donna's brother) (36:31):
We
appreciate everything you done, Tucker man.
Yeah. If anything else comes up, I holler at
you. Sherry, I love you. Go get that youngin and,
All right, all right, all right.
>> Tucker Simmons (36:40):
Appreciate it.
>> Sherry (Donna's Sister) (36:40):
I love you too, T.
All right, bye, Tucker. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you for everything, Tucker.
>> Tucker Simmons (36:44):
Of course, of course. Thank y'all. Bye. Bye.
A few hours after my call with TJ and Sherry, a source at
the Washington Parish sheriff's office shed more light on the
situation. According to this source,
WPSO's chief investigator, Raymond
Myers, didn't feel comfortable giving Irv Magri
access to the Arceneaux case file. Sheriff Randy
(37:07):
Seal, via his chief deputy, made clear to
Raymond he was being told, not asked,
to provide Irv Magri the case file.
Another source at the sheriff's office reached out in horror,
stating, quote, "This was a PR stunt gone
terribly wrong at the expense of the family and the state
police's case." The badge around Irv's neck
was legitimate. In April 2023,
(37:29):
about 17 months prior to this incident with
TJ, Sheriff Randy Seal fully commissioned
Irv Magri as a deputy Sheriff in Washington
Parish. Another interesting note. A few
weeks prior to the attempted meeting with TJ, Irv
Magri's CrimeFighters of Louisiana formally
endorsed Sheriff Randy Seal's reelection
campaign. Louisiana State police confirmed
(37:51):
they had no role in the matter and they were not made aware of Irv
Magri's involvement. I have a feeling I
don't need to make a conclusion for you. All I can say
is if the Sheriff was using Donna's brother as
a campaign tool, that's about as low as it gets in my
book.
During this time, Washington Parish was a week from the runoff
(38:13):
election between Randy Seal and Jason Smith.
Sheriff Seal wouldn't answer my calls after the failed meeting
with TJ, so I met with Jason for his
perspective.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (38:23):
The stereotype is that like all these
dateline shows, missing white girl is
front page news. Missing black girl nobody
knows about.
>> Tucker Simmons (38:32):
Right.
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (38:33):
The importance of the Donna Arceneaux case
is essentially that it shows you that even in the
most high profile situations,
if you've got this organization that is
unable to do the things that are necessary to bring this family
justice, Donna Arceneaux family is just the
highest profile. It's the one we know about. It's just the tip of the
iceberg. There's no reason for this case to have
(38:56):
been cold. And like we were talking about earlier, if the
sheriff's job, is anything, it's to put
himself in those points of friction, you know, where things
are rubbing together and they're not moving forward. So if your case is
cold, why is it going cold? Whose
fault is it? Is it because You've got investigators that are
untrained. Is it a problem with the DA's office
not following through? Is it a problem with the medical examiner filing
(39:18):
a wrong report? Is the way you collect evidence?
Is it the way that you interrogate people? Do we need
to form a better relationship with the state police? Do we need to figure out what
you know, that's where the Sheriff should be inserting himself.
He can't have an in depth conversation to you about
legalities. He can't have an in depth discussion
about prosecutorial mismanagement
(39:38):
or none of that. It's just not going to happen.
And he's completely detached. So he does what he knows. He walks around,
shakes hands. So, when his people run into problems
and they need that assistance, whether it's top cover or
a kick in the butt, he's not there to provide it because it's inconvenient
for him. It's not. He's not comfortable with it. I mean, there's nothing
preventing him from having a public press conference, entertaining
(39:59):
questions from the public, having a town hall. I mean,
be bold enough to answer questions from the audience,
be confident enough in your knowledge of the case to be able to explain
why things are where they are. And if you're not,
then you need to fix that. I
don't think that everyone expects every case to be
solved, but they do expect some sort of
(40:21):
response from the people that are supposed to be solving it.
Even the state police says there's a different standard in Washington Parish
and that's not a good thing. There's nowhere to
go but up.
>> Tucker Simmons (40:31):
So what do you say to. People who say,
oh, Jason's just running because Randy sued him. What is
your response to that allegation?
>> Jason Smith (Sheriff Candidate) (40:40):
Well, I mean, the short answer is there is some
truth to it only because that's what's
opened my eyes to all m of the other things that
are going on. I mean, you can't hear other people's
stories and think that everything's fine.
I mean, I didn't choose to get sued. He
sued us because we were following the law. And so that put me
(41:01):
in a position to be the person
that heard all of these stories. But if
that's all that it was, the smart move would have been
for me to put my money behind somebody else that I thought
could beat him. Listen, I got out of the Marine Corps
to avoid politics. I didn't want to get into politics. I
have a very low opinion of politics and a very low opinion of
(41:21):
politicians. I'm not trying to be a
politician. I'm trying to be the Sheriff. I'm not running for governor.
I'm not running for representative. This is not a stepping stone to
anything. This is because I chose to move back
here. I chose to raise my family here, and I want it to be a place
where we've got an organization that's actually devoted to public
safety, not being run as an extension of a reelection
campaign.
>> Tucker Simmons (41:43):
I was in Washington Parish the week of the election and
all the talk was about who's going to be Sheriff. At least amongst
the people I saw. Some felt Sheriff Seal had
taken too much heat as a result of a tough campaign
Donna's case, and they supported him
wholeheartedly. Others would frantically approach,
asking who I thought would win and who I thought would help advance our
mission of seeking justice for Donna. Going
(42:05):
into this four years ago, a campaign was so far
removed from what I was trying to accomplish, I didn't even
think about it. But now that it was right here upon us and
with what I had uncovered about Donna's case, of course I
had an opinion. But we are in Washington Parish
and change isn't always welcomed.
>> News Anchor (42:22):
Randy Seal was hoping to keep the title
he's held since 2012, but his
challenger, Jason Smith, believed his military
background. Gave him the upper edge for Sheriff. A higher
turnout in Washington Parish. However, 41%
of voters hit the polls today.
>> Tucker Simmons (42:52):
We're nearing the end of Part one and still have a lot of unknowns. But
based on past actions, motive and access to
Donna, my theory shaping up. In episode
eight, we'll dive into new revelations about a suspect's changing
story. My attempt to talk to Scott again goes south
before he even gets started, and someone I've wanted to talk
to for years finally makes contact. Make sure
you follow rate and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify
(43:15):
or wherever you're listening. It's a huge help in spreading the word about
Donna's case. Then head over to
freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on
the investigation and follow us on socials @freezeframepod Freeze
Frame Pod for exclusive content. Freeze
Frame is a But Why Media production. It's written and
produced by me, Tucker Simmons, editing and
post production by Evan Desaulnier narration
(43:37):
by Greg Gehringer and Carrie Loren and our
original music is "Something Strange" by Tabitha Meeks.
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