144 - David Musnick and Kim Pittis: Insights on Autoimmunity and Frequency Specific Microcurrent - Frequency Specific Microcurrent Podcast

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(00:00):
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Frequency Specific Microcurrent.
Thank you for coming again.
You're welcome.

(00:21):
I am so grateful that we get to
spend an entire hour with you.
It's like my own private little tutorial that I have
to selfishly share with other people, but
you and I were trying to figure out all the things that we
could talk about, and there are so many.
I already had a couple of questions that came in when we
put it out last week that I was going to be talking to you,

(00:42):
so I have some questions, but
today I think we decided we
would try to stick to the topic with some
autoimmune, and we tried to talk to
Doctor Jennifer Sosnowski last week on
autoimmunity, and we didn't get
very far at all because we talked all about
sleep apnea instead.

(01:02):
Oh.
It was a great topic of
conversation because as sleep is everything, and I
still have the talk that you gave years ago at
the Advanced all about sleep hygiene,
and it's one I think you need to
repeat at some point, because everybody
needs to sleep and how to sleep well, and there's

(01:23):
so many things that we can do.
How about this coming March?
Yeah, I talked to Carol about it.
And so I'm hoping to not just repeat it, but there's all
this new material about sleep and things I've
incorporated how to get people sleeping.
Because even in regard to autoimmunity, the
immune system gets very disturbed if you get six or less

(01:43):
hours of sleep.
Yes, we all need good sleep.
And that is one thing that I'm so fortunate.
Between my watch and my ring,
I'm getting two sources telling me that I am logging 8
to 9 hours a night.
So I'm.
And then I won't talk to you about all the EMF you're being
exposed to with those devices.
I know that's the other part of it.

(02:04):
Since you're such a VIP in the FSM community, and
you're so wonderful that you should not
use those devices more than once a week.
Okay, maybe once every two weeks just to
monitor because you're getting
exposed to Bluetooth while you're sleeping?
Yes.
Not a good idea.
No.
Monitor once every few weeks to just see

(02:27):
how it's going and then leave it at that,
because too many people are monitoring every night and then
they're getting exposed at the same time they're sleeping.
Right. That will transition into some of the other
things that we're going to talk about with autoimmune.
Everybody that is listening to us live,
feel free to start throwing some questions for Doctor
Musnick in the Q&A or in the chat.
Let's try to keep it as autoimmune-related as

(02:50):
possible. It's really hard when we have his big
brain sitting in front of us because we want to ask him all
the things, but one of the platforms that I like to
use this podcast for is to not just talk to
FSM practitioners, but we have so many
laypeople that just listen to the podcast and are getting
introduced to not only what we do with FSM,
but what we use as our own

(03:11):
adjuncts to FSM.
One of the big words that we've been hearing so much
about autoimmunity is the fact
that it's a scary word.
We're hearing things, oh, I have an autoimmune condition,
and there's so much doom and gloom
and hopelessness that
I as a practitioner around that.
And I think there's so many things we can do to

(03:34):
help empower and enable the patients and
clients that we work with to do things
holistically and to maybe take charge of their own health.
So, I'm going to guide you down that path
as much as possible.
And for the healthcare providers that are listening, how we
can best help our patients if we're not medical doctors,
who we can refer them to, what kind of labs, etc.

(03:54):
If somebody suspects that they have an autoimmune
condition. What is the best course of action for
that patient to do?
That's probably a big question.
Doctors
don't randomly order anti-nuclear antibodies

(04:15):
or autoimmune antibody screens for
patients, unless they're
concerned that they might have a constellation of symptoms
that could be an autoimmune condition.
Do you think screening people for ANA
or autoimmune conditions should be something that we should
do?
Yes.
Because it turns out

(04:37):
that there's these things called predictive
antibodies or precursor antibodies,
where the antibody screen will be
positive before someone actually has an
autoimmune condition, so that
during that period of time, somebody
who does this type of work
could possibly detect these

(04:57):
antibodies and reverse the condition
so that the person does not develop a full-blown
labeled autoimmune condition.
So as it turns out, we
produce the different antibodies to tissues
before we have full-blown
manifestations of these conditions.
So yes.

(05:18):
Then, the question is, okay, what would it be?
Because the anti-nuclear antibody is
a really bad one.
And I'm not trying to scare anybody, but
it means someone has an immune response to their own
nuclear material.
So that's a big deal.
There's all kinds of antibodies screens that could be
done. And an answer to that question.

(05:39):
Yes, I think someone should be able to go to
a physician and say, look, I'd like to potentially
get an antibody screen to see if I'm at risk of autoimmune
diseases or if I got any early antibodies.
And then, there are a number of
labs that do these Cyrex labs.
Cyrex has a really good,
very diverse antibody screen and I would break it up

(06:01):
into antibodies for
the body below the brain
and antibodies in the brain, because if someone's
interested in their brain, which is a funny thing
to say who's interested in the brain, people
should be interested in the brain, but the average person
doesn't think they need to take care of it.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, I know.

(06:21):
But if someone was saying, I think this is
a good health goal, to take care of my brain and prevent
autoimmunity in the brain, because what a lot of people
don't know is our immune systems
are developing antibody responses to
many different tissues in the brain.
And so there is a panel someone could get to
look at that and pick that up

(06:42):
earlier than if they're at risk for Alzheimer's
or they're at risk for cerebellar issues or all kinds of
things, blood brain-barrier antibodies.
So I think ideally, if someone wants to be really
healthy, they should get a screen of antibodies
for their body and antibodies for their
brain. But then, the average stock would not know
what to do about it.

(07:04):
So they probably have to see a doc that was trained not
just in functional medicine, but functional
immunology. So, functional
immunology is a branch of functional
medicine that someone has to decide that they want to do
and take a really deep dive into it, because it's literally
probably, I don't know, like 500 to
1000 hours of extra training.
It's an unbelievable amount.

(07:25):
Wow.
So I've been doing that and it's fascinating
stuff. But if you find early antibodies and you say, okay,
how are we going to approach this?
Because I think we really can
prevent full-blown autoimmune
conditions.
I think that's probably one of the biggest issues, because
you're right, a lot of people aren't just saying, I would

(07:45):
like an antibody panel or I think I am at risk for
autoimmune. Good to know that there are tests.
So Cyrex, like you said, And who knew that there were two
different panels, like one for the brain and one for
the rest of the body that that in itself, my mind is
already spinning in a thousand different directions
because that I don't think is common knowledge
whatsoever.

(08:06):
The interesting thing is that the so-called specialists in
autoimmunity are labeled
rheumatologists. A lot of them do
not know that there are panels available to screen for
autoimmunity in the brain.
So you could literally go to a rheumatologist, and they
don't know that you can do this type of
screening, which is concerning.

(08:26):
But also I think one of the problems
with seeing a conventional rheumatologist
is they don't look at causes like
what caused the autoimmunity.
They just look at labeling it and trying to match it
with a treatment, usually a biologic.
But what we really need to do is look at
causes and

(08:46):
underlying causes that can cause autoimmunity, so we
can decrease exposure to them.
We need to look at triggers.
And decrease triggers because triggers will set
people into an autoimmune response.
But the other issue that's totally fascinating.
And you probably know this because you're brilliant.

(09:07):
I always pass out the comments
is that if a person has an
autoimmune condition, the highest
risk for having an autoimmune condition
is already having a different autoimmune condition.
I have seen patients that came in the first time
I was just diagnosed with my fourth autoimmune
condition. What can I do about

(09:29):
this? And because the things, the
causes that could predispose someone to one can
predispose to another.
And rheumatologists aren't looking at that either.
And it's extremely important because you don't want to
develop any, let alone more than
one, let alone like this 27-year-old
that came in like a couple of months ago with four of them.
That gets into causes, that gets

(09:51):
into prevention, that gets into treatment and all these
things.
So, I'm going to stop you right there.
Once again. So, if you Google
autoimmune condition, all
these very similar definitions will pop up.
And you'll see common things like unknown
cause and no cure.
And I think conventional medicine has been really

(10:12):
happy with, oh, we don't know what causes it.
And everybody's been okay with the fact that we
don't know what the cause is.
I don't think everybody's okay with it.
I don't think functional medicine doctors are okay with it.
Right, right.
I'm sure there's a good
group of allopathic medicine that
realizes that they shouldn't be okay with it.

(10:34):
But for the most part, I think we just hear
and see a lot of the unknown cause, and
everybody's just accepting it.
Maybe we're not okay with it, but we're accepting that.
So, what could some causes be?
So, one of the biggest causes is probably
toxicity and toxic burden in

(10:55):
the body. Because here's a concept.
Okay. So if you're an immune cell,
Yep.
Patrolling around
looking at everything like okay is this me?
Is this not me?
If it's not me, then I need to tell somebody and
I need to go to the headquarters.
And then we're going to analyze the situation.
We might mount an immune response.

(11:16):
Right? Or if you've already been exposed to something, if
that immune cell has already been exposed to something and
ready to what we call clone, or you could
call it Star Wars, The Clone Wars, and they clone
hundreds and thousands of copies to go after
something. There's a bunch of
categories regarding
what can cause autoimmune conditions.

(11:37):
One is toxicity.
You can imagine if toxins are in a tissue,
then the immune system may look at it, say, I don't know
that this is me anymore.
So there's many different toxins that can be in
tissues. So now it's felt like mold bio toxins
can be a cause for this.
That they get into tissues in the immune system cannot
figure out that's self.

(11:58):
And if you get like a toxin panel, some of the companies
are doing these big toxin panels.
There's some very serious toxins that are in our
bodies that could predispose
to developing autoimmunity.
Then the spike protein is now a new theory on why
autoimmunity develops the spike protein.
And because so many people have been exposed to that

(12:18):
by getting Covid or getting the shots.
So that's another possible
cause, because it's been found in
autopsies to be in a lot of different tissues.
There's some theories and I agree with
them that barrier dysfunction
is related to the development of autoimmunity,
like intestinal permeability, which

(12:40):
is also called leaky gut, whereby the dendritic cells
that are on the other side of the intestines, they're
like waiting for things to go through.
But if it becomes leaky and the body
develops immune reactions to its
own tight junction.
And so most people don't know this.
But leaky gut is an autoimmune disorder

(13:00):
because the diagnosis of leaky gut now is
based on antibodies to tight
junction proteins.
So it's actually an autoimmune disorder
itself. And
because those tight junctions are also in the blood-brain
barrier very frequently, if people have
leaky gut with that autoimmune disorder,
they may have a leaky blood-brain barrier.

(13:22):
And then that predisposes to all kinds of problems in the
brain. And what I've been finding when I order
those tests, it's a very high incidence of people
that are testing positive for
anti-zonulin anti-actin and anti
-lipopolysaccharide, which is
very concerning because then you say why do
so many people have intestinal permeability.

(13:45):
Probably one of the reasons is because
of the glyphosate and
roundup we're all being exposed to,
because it's very damaging to the gut barrier.
So you can say, okay, you know,
genetically modified foods and the amount of exposure
to genetically modified foods can
potentially predispose a personal intestinal

(14:07):
permeability, which then can contribute to development
of autoimmune disorders.
There's genetic issues, for sure that
are related to the development of autoimmune disorders, but
it's always like a combination of
genetics and triggering
factors. There
are intestinal
infections that could predispose to

(14:29):
autoimmune disorders.
There are food allergies that could do
it, like celiac disease is associated with a higher
risk of other autoimmune disorders because it's so
much associated with intestinal
permeability. Celiac disease and then
but you can have someone with a dairy allergy.
So some of those, like wheat and dairy are more serious

(14:50):
than some other allergies, but that
literally it could go into an autoimmune disorder.
The mechanism of molecular mimicry is
whereby the immune system
is thinking that something is abnormal and
going after it, like parts of dairy,
and then, instead it goes after parts of the

(15:12):
brain. So I always tell people
for eight weeks after a concussion, you
can't eat wheat or dairy because the immune
system could go after parts of your brain
because of this molecular mimicry thing.
So there's a lot of
possible causes.
And the rate of autoimmunity is just

(15:33):
skyrocketing.
Yes.
And it's skyrocketed since
2020. So you probably know what that
means.
And that's one of the reasons why I think we are
hearing and reading so much about it right now,
and I think our job is to give out
useful information.
Like I said, my goal as a health care

(15:53):
practitioner, wellness provider, whatever you want to call
it, coach, is to give people the tools and
to give them the power back to take control of
their health. So what you had just
unpacked so much about diet is
really within our control.
It's very expensive to eat well in America, but
I think that is one thing.

(16:14):
If you look at a post to all these medications and the
cost of health care, cleaning up your diet is one of the
things that most of us can at least make a
solid dent into that.
You mentioned gluten and you mentioned dairy.
Are there other things that you tell people to get
rid of right away or eliminate?
What I would do with any autoimmune is I would get

(16:35):
an intestinal permeability test
for sure on the patients,
because I want to know if I've got to heal that because
it's like a portal of entry.
Then I would also like a really good food allergy
panel that not only measures IgG, but
also IgE and Complement.
And there's a number of panels that like that.

(16:56):
The test that I get for intestinal permeability also
checks for gluten and wheat because
I need them to get off of that.
I want to base it off of that kind of
data, because if someone's got very
strong allergies to certain foods,
then I want to get them off of that.
If they've got moderate allergies, they might be able to
rotate. But oftentimes the base level

(17:19):
issue is leaky gut.
But I want to talk about something that I forgot to say
about causes because I don't want to forget this.
Yeah.
The biggest potential causes of autoimmunity is
infections. There seems to be a very
high correlation between chronic
infections and the development of autoimmune
disorders, especially Lyme disease.

(17:39):
But co-infections of Lyme disease.
Bartonella. Babesia.
Rocky mountain spotted fever and chronic
or reactivated viral infections Epstein-Barr, West
Nile. So let's just say I'm
treating a person with
brain dysfunction, cognitive impairment, I'm going to look
for causes for that.

(17:59):
If I find antibodies to brain
tissues, I'm going to start searching for
chronic infections.
Oftentimes you find them and you got to treat those
as well, right.
Because what if someone is still reacting to Lyme
and they've developed an autoimmune disorder and the
underlying infection is not being treated.

(18:19):
So it's extremely important to screen
for those things as
causes.
The food panels you mentioned labs.
Do you like them for food sensitivity testing
or is there other sources for labs?
So there is something interesting with one of their food
allergy panels more they cook certain
foods that are not

(18:41):
cooked in other food allergy panels.
For instance, most people don't eat raw beef,
so. Cooks the beef to present it as an
antigen. Chicken and certain other things.
If I had my way, I would
get that panel, but that's still only
IgG and I would get a panel
like Infinite Labs or Precision Labs,

(19:03):
the vast 88 because those
panels not only check IgG, they
also check IgE because I
definitely want to know if someone's IgE allergic because
they have to stay off those things.
Those are the really serious ones.
For the lay people that are listening, can you
explain what IgG, the difference
between those are, just briefly?

(19:25):
So an IgE food allergy is a much
more serious allergy, it's like the ones you
hear about peanuts or
shrimp or something, where if someone gets
exposed to those foods, they could actually
go into shock.
They could have hives.
They could swell up in their throat.
They're extremely serious, very quick

(19:46):
-onset allergies.
And that's why they don't serve peanuts.
Like if you go in March when I
board a plane from Boise to go to Arizona and you
board a plane from wherever you board your plane,
Oakland or San Francisco, they're not going to offer you
peanuts because they're
concerned about IgE allergies to

(20:07):
peanuts. Sometimes, though, if you're in first class,
they'll offer you cashews.
And so people do not have, there
isn't that broad-spread IgE
allergy to cashews
as there is to peanuts.
I do think that any doctor screening for
these things needs to find out.
Does that patient have IgE allergies for

(20:29):
sure. Because you have to have the patient stay
off of those and then
everybody's checking for IgG.
But that's less serious.
Those are things like stuffy nose or headaches or
joint pain or whatever.
Theoretically less serious reactions.
But then there's some other ways to look at these
reactions, like activation of

(20:50):
complement. So the more things that are happening with
an allergy like activation of
complement, high levels of IgG, if I
see both of those, I say you've got to stay off of.
That's almost as close or as bad as an IgE
allergy,
Right.
So I would say that if we're really trying to be
comprehensive, I'd like the cooked
panel with Cyrex.

(21:11):
And then I would get a different panel
for the combination of IgE, IgG,
and complement testing for food allergies.
This is not the go to the allergist and the
scratch test on your back panel.
Those would be more inhalant things in general.
Yes, yes.
You know skin reactions?
Yes.

(21:32):
Correct.
Because some people will say, oh, I went to an allergist and
I don't have any food allergies.
This is more accurate for food
-related allergies.
Yes.
Tests can be fairly accurate for inhalant related
things. Things you inhale.
Sure. So I think that's just a great
first step for people to know that they can start
ruling out food.

(21:52):
I think it's important to not paint everybody with the
same brush. So like we hear, oh, don't eat
gluten, don't eat dairy, don't have soy, don't have corn,
don't have nightshades.
That doesn't work for everybody though.
The best diet is.
Italian.
Yeah,
Tomatoes are.
Yeah. I don't think it's good to say that to people.

(22:15):
Just like you could do an elimination diet
for a certain amount of time, but
then it's probably better to say, okay, look, if
we don't know what's going on, we can test for it,
right? Then you don't have to eliminate.
We can test for it.
Although the gold standard is elimination and
challenge, I don't want to eliminate and challenge an

(22:36):
IgE allergy food, though that would not be
good. So that's why I think testing is
important in that. But I don't think people should stay
off all these things
indefinitely. I think it's better to
to test for these things and then tell them to stay off,
because this is what the test shows and sometimes it does
change. Although IgE allergies don't usually

(22:57):
change, but IgG allergies can change.
I'm trying to remember there was a food
plan when we were in Arizona a couple years
ago, and I had tried it.
I think it was Gundry's lectin free diet
and I felt terrible on it as I.
Had to do.
Yeah, it was, I think it was just not enough
carbohydrates. I was training, I was running a ton and it

(23:19):
just wasn't enough.
But I'm always open to trying things, especially things
that potentially could make me feel better and
run faster and sleep better.
So there's a couple questions here before we go any
further. Somebody asked about the ring.
Does the ring pump out EMFs even if the phone isn't
actively monitoring it.
Yes.
Okay.

(23:39):
That is the understanding.
Okay.
That's my understanding of it.
But I have to look a little more into it.
But that was my understanding because that would be
good actually for me to get one of those rings.
And because I've got test equipment, I can
measure it, but I'm almost positive it
is.
Yeah, You're right.
We don't want to be monitoring and then potentially just

(24:01):
exposing ourselves to things that could be
making us worse or not.
I will tell you something that this would be valuable for
your audience.
I can't believe how many patients come
in, say, with cognitive issues or autoimmune
issues. And I talk to them about
electromagnetic fields because there's
information that electromagnetic fields

(24:21):
will damage the blood-brain barrier that is
definite and not necessarily the gut barrier,
but the blood-brain barrier.
And so virtually all these people are sitting
there with their phones. The Bluetooth is on, The
Wi-Fi is on.
And if you take test equipment,
there's a lot of exposure.
Just from their phone.

(24:42):
And if they would just take the
Bluetooth, turn it off.
Take the Wi-Fi, turn it off.
And same thing if they got an Apple Watch or another type.
Take the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and turn it off and turn it
into a watch.
Right. They'll save themselves a lot of that
exposure.
Yeah, again, so many things that you can do to
just minimize things.

(25:02):
We talked about this pretty extensively last
week with Dr. Sosnowski, with sleep turning the
Wi-Fi off at night, and how some of
the kids that she's working with, with autism are on the
spectrum, how they're so sensitive to
EMFs and how just turning Wi-Fi off at night had
drastically improved their sleep quality.
I think about Dr.

(25:22):
Roger Billica talking about the story about a teenager,
and it was almost like psychotic episodes that they
couldn't figure out what had happened.
And then, it came down to they had They'd
moved his bed into a different area, and there was just so
much electricity around right where his head
was. They moved his bed and he was a different kid.
Fascinating stuff.
So going back to one of the

(25:45):
questions that we had, it says, I understand
the connection between gut and immune function, my
question is about parietal cells.
If the immune system is attacking the parietal cells, is
there a way to protect those cells while attempting to
recover an autoimmune condition?
Okay, so maybe I'll interpret that question because it's
actually a rather sophisticated question.

(26:07):
Yes. Some of it is very
sophisticated,
What?
The person that wrote writes great question.
So thank you, Summer.
Okay. So parietal cells are in the
stomach. And there is a condition in
which there is autoimmune
effect on the parietal cells which can be called pernicious
anemia. So when someone actually

(26:31):
has autoimmunity to parietal cells, they don't produce as
much stomach acid potentially, so then they
can have that kind of dysfunction.
Yes. Is there a way to protect those cells while attempting
to recover an autoimmune condition?
I would have to speculate on this
because I couldn't say yes, 100%.
You're going to protect the parietal
cells because you'd have to say, okay, we

(26:53):
don't want the immune system getting near the parietal
cells when the immune system is already primed and
cloned to go after them.
So what you'd have to do is figure out any
trigger. And this gets into this whole issue.
Okay. Someone has an autoimmune disorder.
What can you recommend besides the biologics
that the rheumatologist recommended?
Or if they want to get off of a biologic because they're

(27:15):
really concerned about the list of side effects this
long. Have you ever seen a TV commercial
on a biologic?
It's just start listing the side effects.
So one of the concepts is
you don't just want to take a biologic, you want to assess
and heal barriers.
You want to assess and heal anything that can cause this
molecular mimicry.
You want to look at any infections that might be related to

(27:37):
this thing perpetuating, and you want to
actually balance the immune
system, modulate it.
Part of this whole thing about how do you protect the
cells that the immune system is going after,
in this case, parietal cells, where you could use something
to increase mucus in there.
So there are a number of products that

(27:59):
increase the layer of mucus in the
gut that might help
decrease the attack of the parietal cells, but really you
want to decrease the triggering events because that's
just going to get the immune system active.
So in that case, I'd say get the two different food
allergy panels.
I would stop and will
affect the barrier.

(28:20):
I get rid of those.
I tell them to not eat hot, spicy foods.
I tell them to avoid all GMOs because of the
breakdown of the barrier with that.
But then the immune system would need to be
relatively balanced, which is the functional
immunology approach to autoimmunity.
So, what's interesting, Cyrex lab actually
has the most comprehensive test to

(28:42):
evaluate the whole immune system.
Okay. So it's one blood test, but it gives an
unbelievable report of the status of the whole immune
system. What's the relative population
of Th1 cells versus
Th2 cells? Th17,
CD57 cells.
Natural killer cells.
And so in that situation, I would want to get that

(29:04):
test with anybody with an autoimmune disorder to
just say, okay, let's look at your immune system.
How much would a test like that fluctuate or how many
times would you recheck something like
that? Once a year?
Every few months.
Would that depend on what they're changing?
Yeah, I would only check it when I thought they had enough
time to respond favorably to it.

(29:27):
And I was making interventions so that it would
change.
Right.
There's all kinds of patterns in autoimmune disorders.
But if the immune system stays in certain patterns,
it's just going to keep perpetuating the
autoimmune disorder or leading to another
one. So that's why I do think that
particular lab test would be good for anybody with an
autoimmune disorder.

(29:47):
For someone to look at it, analyze and say, okay, what
does this look like in terms of the different
aspects of your immune system, and what can we do to
modulate it, to improve it, to balance it?
I don't like the word boosting that is
used as an adjective for the immune system, and
I think it may be slightly appropriate for
boosting natural killer cells or something called the

(30:10):
Th1 helper cells to fight
viruses. But in
general you want to balance as opposed to
boosting.
Sure. That's a good.
We like words on this show.
We talked a lot about food as being triggers.
What are some other triggers that are out there?
We think about stress.
We think about sleep.
Stress is one of the biggest ones.

(30:32):
I find out a lot of people developed an autoimmune
condition during a period of prolonged stress.
So that's really important to
manage. Inadequate sleep will
lead to dysfunction of the immune system.
You know how if you get inadequate sleep for
a number of nights, then you could just get sick.
You could not even leave your house.

(30:53):
Inadequate sleep. And then you're going to get a virus.
That's that that you already have that
your immune system is containing, which that brings
up an interesting question, even though you didn't ask
it. So here's the question.
What is the condition called a reactivated
virus and why is it important?
Because it's an immune system dysfunction where the

(31:14):
Th1 natural killer cell, part of the immune system
cannot contain a virus or
viruses, and then they start multiplying out of control
when they were contained.
But that can also trigger an autoimmune
flare or even an autoimmune condition.
Right.
Yes. That's so

(31:34):
interesting how you talked about a couple nights sleep, and
then all of a sudden you're sick and you didn't leave your
house, because that does happen all the time.
We always joke that our kids would always get sick after
Halloween. Between the lack of sleep and all the
sugar, it was just a perfect.
So stress, there's a lot we can do to help people with
stress, especially with FSM.
A lot of us are in that field of helping

(31:55):
people. I think you had mentioned it at last year's
talk, or maybe it was the year before about tapping.
I love tapping, I tap
myself, I recommend tapping to people.
I think it can be very helpful, especially when they
are newly diagnosed with an autoimmune condition
and then they have so much stress, which is on top of
how to manage the autoimmune condition, which doesn't help

(32:17):
the autoimmune condition.
One thing that's really important
that you probably know about, and I don't know if you had
another guest talking about
this is labeling the
person with an autoimmune condition.
Then, the person labels themselves with it.
And that's a problem.
Because if you feel so deeply

(32:38):
that you have lupus or you have this or that,
it's hard to get better from it.
Yes.
And you just keep almost like using it on yourself.
I got it becomes part of your identity.
I do not think that's good at all.
Right.
I think it's better not to even use those terms
at the present time. I have autoimmune
antibodies. I have these

(32:59):
symptoms. I intend to get better.
I was talking to a friend who's a psychotherapist
who was talking about anxiety and depression, and their
approach is exactly the same.
Instead of saying, I have anxiety.
No, you have anxious feelings right now.
There's a completely different approach
with just those two things.
Everybody feels anxious from time to time.

(33:21):
Right? Like we're human beings.
Right.
So I think that's a really important step.
And whether it's about autoimmune or
we talk a lot about this with frozen shoulder.
People love to self label I have frozen shoulder.
Could we also just say you have a shoulder that's not
moving as well as it could potentially.
Yeah.
Completely different.
Less likely establish the thing

(33:43):
from being there and staying there for a long
time. It shouldn't be a disease label should not be a
part of a person's identity.
And I felt like this a long time.
And there's actually a book that Jeffrey Bland wrote
about diseases and that they don't actually
exist like that.
They're labels for a constellation of either lab
tests or symptoms or whatever, and you want to

(34:05):
feel like you could heal from something, you could get
better. There is this whole issue about,
could someone 100%
heal from an autoimmune condition?
That gets very tricky because most
rheumatologists would say, no, they can't.
The vast majority of rheumatologists would say no,
but I've seen people with a functional immunology

(34:26):
approach, go on to do not have the
antibodies anymore and be relatively symptom
free. And so I think people
should hold out and say, yeah, I want to get completely
better. And I don't want to think about the label.
Which brings up another issue, which is interesting, which
I don't know if you've started doing this, I want to know
if you're doing this during FSM, but what I started doing

(34:47):
FSM, I assign imagery or
affirmations to the patient while they're getting the
FSM. And I actually asked them
like this lady today.
It was lady today has the most severe
constipation I've ever seen in my practice.
And I said, okay, this is going to sound funny, but while
you're there, you're going to imagine that you're going to
freely have bowel movements every day during this whole

(35:09):
visit, you're going to imagine what life would be
like if you even have to worry about having bowel
movements. So I started doing imagery with almost every
person, but I don't ask
them to think about the disease label.
I asked them to imagine if everything's working
properly. If everything's going great, what would that be
like while they're getting the FSM?

(35:29):
And I think I'm going to even have better
results than I usually have.
But it's still early in that process because I started
doing it about three weeks ago.
I've been doing this for a little while, and I have to say,
working with athletes imagery is a huge component of it.
So we would start with, when you
are healed from this injury, what is your first game back

(35:49):
going to look like? What does success mean this season to
you? But using it with "the
average person" has been, if not
more successful.
So it's saying the things like
when this is healed, what are some of the first things
you're going to do? Again, picking out my grandson, I'm
going to go grocery shopping and push the cart without

(36:10):
pain. And then saying the affirmations.
I was working with somebody who we had a very successful
treatment on the table, and then it was time to do some
corrective exercise. And the first thing they said was, oh
my gosh, this is going to hurt so much, isn't it?
And I was like, that just undid
everything that we just did because
the thought was back to movement is going to cause

(36:32):
pain. So what we would say is, and my
favorite three sentences are
I feel strong, movement
feels good, etc, etc.
So even just saying I feel strong, movement feels good,
and then I feel safe.
Right. Movement should feel safe.

(36:52):
I think healing has to feel safe.
And I think some people are afraid to heal
because that might mean something very
different. And you alluded to it.
It becomes their identity.
So we talked a lot about managing
autoimmunity when maybe somebody mitigate the
symptoms. But the other side
of the patients that are coming in are the patients that

(37:15):
have been sick for a really long time, and maybe they don't
even know it was an autoimmune condition.
They're just finding all this information out.
But being sick has been such
a component to who they are.
Yeah.
And I think it's really important that we can help
separate them.
And not saying I have this autoimmune condition,
but how you were phrasing it, I have

(37:36):
some autoimmune markers that I'm
managing right now.
Of these symptoms or these signs, but
I intend to get better.
And the other thing about it is that
we can talk to patients about staging.
Okay, here's a timeline.
We're going to start here.
We're going to get all the antibody tests.
We're going to get the food tests.

(37:58):
We may analyze your whole immune
system. And then we're going to develop a plan
based on all that data and
you'll start on this food plan now.
But we're going to change it.
So they see a timeline
of, you know, the way
things could go. Okay.
And then I assessed your vagus nerve.
It's not working as well.

(38:18):
So we're going to get that working better.
And we're going to eliminate some toxicity with
sauna or whatever, come up with a timeline and a plan to
deal with the causes and whatever.
So they have something to look forward to and say, okay,
then I expect by this amount of time that the
end, because you got to treat the immune system and you got
to treat the end organ too,
that the immune system is, so

(38:41):
FSM is great for that treating the end organ, calming
it down and treating the Vagus.
And then it just depends what else needs to be done.
But you can also treat barriers with
FSM like the blood-brain barrier,
like the intestinal barrier.
So I think that practitioners within treating autoimmunity
you have to think about yeah.
What are all the things that I can use it for.

(39:03):
Am I going to stage in different things.
And so given a timeline I think
is really important to people and having them stop using
the label against themselves.
Yeah. I have some hope too, because the people you're
talking about have had this for a very long time.
It's so ingrained in them that you
really. But most of the patients I found,

(39:25):
I haven't had much resistance to this
positive imaging, not using that label
against yourself anymore.
I talk to people that say, hey, would you put a
sweatshirt on and wear it every day?
And that sweatshirt is like the lupus sweatshirt or
the rheumatoid arthritis?
I said, that appears to be what you're doing when you keep
labeling. You keep using this label against

(39:46):
yourself. So try not thinking
about that name.
Lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, whatever.
Just say, okay, it's my immune system.
I'm working on it.
It's going to get better. I'm not going to actually think
about the label constantly, because
that really makes it more difficult to
heal and get better.

(40:07):
To build on this, I hosted a little California
hybrid course a month ago, and we had some people who had
taken the sports course and other courses
and we're doing a little refresher.
And we had a very, very important
group in this room.
It was a really unique meeting of the minds.
It was very inspiring to be around.
And we had talked about the labeling

(40:29):
of certain frequencies.
Right? So we have 124 which is torn and
broken. And those are terrible
adjectives, torn and broken.
Somebody said, can we start saying repair and heal?
124 is now repair and heal.
And I was like, yes.
So right away.
Oh, that's interesting. Wow.
It changes the trajectory.

(40:49):
I know, like with athletes like we have to
change know where will they see
concussion on on their CustomCare because they
change it to neuro or best sleep
or neuro rely.
I change it to suit.
Good idea. Changing the names of programs even to be
more positive.
Yes. So torn and broken folks is now

(41:12):
repair and heal. That's our new one.
What do you call it? 321.
Oh, yeah. Paralysis.
I'll just say this isn't moving right now so we could call
it. Instead of paralysis.
We could say improves movement.
We might have to change a whole bunch of verbiage.
Derek, on the question just said I can
confirm positive affirmations work.
This is like telling the taxi driver where you want to

(41:32):
go. And I think again, it comes down to like
control and feeling safe.
And I think, does it matter what kind of practitioner
you are?
Our job, whether you do FSM or
not, is to make your clients and patients feel
safe in your care.
Nobody is going to move if they don't feel
safe to move.

(41:53):
I don't push people to move.
I don't like the phrase holding space, but I think our
job is to just give
everybody that safety to
improve their health, improve their movement, however
that is, and we can just facilitate and cheer them on along
the way. That's my little positivity.
Going back to some of the questions Derek asks could

(42:15):
Alzheimer's and dementia be autoimmune
related?
Yes, they can, because
there's predictive antibodies and I can't
remember exactly what they are.
There's a really good test panel for that, which
is a lab called Vibrant Labs in
California does The Neural Zoomer Plus

(42:36):
, which measures every
antibody they know to test to all the brain
regions. And there are a number of predictive
antibodies on there for Alzheimer's
disease. Although I don't think Alzheimer's
is totally an autoimmune mechanism, there is probably an
autoimmune mechanism.
And for a lot of people, there's probably a chronic

(42:57):
infection mechanism that is now
being called Alzheimer's is being correlated with
chronic Epstein Barr reactivated,
Lyme, mold biotoxins.
So I think it's a combination of an autoimmune
process with a lot of neurotoxicity
with a lot of neural inflammation, blood-brain
barrier breakdown.

(43:18):
But the blood-brain barrier breakdown might be traumatic
initially, but then it can become autoimmune.
Yeah, I think Alzheimer's is
partly autoimmune. Not I don't think it's usually 100% that
way.
Do you think we hear so much to
the big phrases are chronic inflammation?
I'm chronically inflamed.
Do you think that phrase is also being used to

(43:38):
describe autoimmune conditions?
So a person can
have a lot of inflammation or chronic inflammation without
having an autoimmune condition.
So then they have immune system dysfunction.
There's a lot of inflammatory
aspects that are going on but they may

(43:59):
not have autoimmunity.
They may not have autoantibodies.
They may just have a lot of inflammation.
And they might have it in the brain.
They might have in the body. Often if you have it in the
body, you have it in the brain.
You're more likely to have brain problems with chronic body
inflammation if you have a blood-brain barrier that's
dysfunctional.
One of the questions was how do you treat the blood-brain
barrier?

(44:21):
That's a good question.
So, you decrease EMF exposures because that's directly
linked to damage to blood-brain barrier.
And then yeah, if someone had a blood-brain barrier
antibodies I would want to confirm they also had
intestinal permeability.
And so then I'd be using butyrate for the brain
and the large intestine, because you got to treat the
small and the large intestine.

(44:42):
I'd probably use peptides like BPC
-157 orally at least,
because one of the things you got to do for the blood-brain
barrier is you've got to heal the leaky gut because
of the immune system keeps going over those
junctional proteins, then they're going to go after it in
the brain, too.
And so then you actually have to
heal the microglial

(45:02):
populations that are going to go
after the blood-brain barrier.
So you have to do things to convert the
M1 phase of microglial cells to
an M2 phase.
Things like getting
more apigenin in your diet
from parsley or putting parsley in a

(45:23):
blueberry smoothie to get
apigenin getting more luteolin
because that helps the balance of getting the
cells into an anti-inflammatory phase in the
brain. And then I would use
FSM for the blood-brain
barrier. And then it gets tricky because okay,
what am I going to use a frequency for arteries or a

(45:43):
frequency for capillaries.
Probably a frequency for capillaries because the blood
brain barrier is really small stuff.
I would use condition 1 frequencies
and on channel 2, I would use
162. But I would put a
whole bunch of condition frequencies in there.
Now all the toxin frequencies

(46:04):
then if you know they have viruses then you have to treat
the viruses. So at least use
160.
Then if you know they have mobile toxins, I've used 23
/95. So there's a whole bunch of condition frequencies if
they have this going on with
162, I treat the
spike protein.

(46:25):
There's a whole bunch of things that are affecting the
blood-brain barrier.
There actually is a frequency and I think it's
957 or something.
I'd have to look it up for EMF.
There is. I've made an EMF protocol, but I would
have to look those up also.
Those don't stay in my brain.
Just one thing I want to say.
I know this sounds gross, but

(46:45):
I am stuffing two by two
and rolling it up and sticking it in people's ear
drums and putting clips on to
deliver it better to the brain.
I think you can.
I don't know how many practitioners could do that
or would do that, but yeah.
It seems to be working better.
If I want to deliver two different programs to the

(47:07):
brain, I'll deliver one through alligator clips and one
from the neck to the forehead.
Yeah
Usually. But I started thinking about this.
It's either like up the nose or in the ear canals.
And I tried a few patients up the nose and they go,
no. But in the ear canals, they'll do
it.
Wow. Denise had asked the two lab companies that
you were recommending. I think it was Cyrex.

(47:29):
Right? And then you talked
about Vibrant.
Yeah. But
then there's another lab company for the
IgG, IgE and complement
food allergy testing.
I think one of them is Infinite.
One of them is Precision.
There are a number of labs that do that type of food
allergy testing.

(47:50):
Okay.
So of all those labs, they don't do
mold biotoxin testing that we talked about and
they don't do Lyme and co-infection testing.
Those are other labs.
Okay. Somebody had asked, are there any
cases of FSM helping myasthenia
gravis beyond diet, gut health, Vagus,
etc.. I don't know of any

(48:11):
offhand.
That's tricky because then we'd have to say, okay, who's
had myasthenia gravis patient?
I'm just trying to think.
I think I've had a few, but not many.
And I have helped them because the worst thing that can
happen with myasthenia gravis is respiratory depression
where they can't breathe.

(48:32):
But I haven't had any recent
myasthenia gravis patients, but I'd still approach
them the same way I'm talking about.
Yes. Okay.
Summer also is asking, where is Dr.
Musnick's office?
You are in.
Idaho. My main practice is in
Eagle, Idaho.

(48:53):
I do telemedicine.
Someone's not in Idaho because I have a license in Idaho
and Washington.
I also still go back to a clinic occasionally in
Bellevue, Washington.
Right.
But I do telemedicine.
And so when somebody
is not in Idaho or Washington,
then they have to have something called a peer.

(49:14):
Yeah.
We've done that with one of your patients.
Yes. Thank you for that.
So yeah, there's lots of ways if your website
peakmedicine.com I believe.
Yeah. So that's the Bellevue website.
Okay.
www.peak like reach your peak.
The Idaho website is
www.fmi for functional medicine of

(49:35):
Idaho,
fmioptimal.com.
Perfect. There was one more question I believe before
I. Oh, do you do telehealth in Hawaii?
Yes. As long as either someone
is from Washington or
Idaho or they have a peer that's any type of
medical license.

(49:56):
During Covid, those rules went out the window.
Right.
We're doing telemedicine with anybody in any state.
The rules went out the window, but I can't remember when
they came back.
Right.
Because this is the United States of America.
Every practitioner should have a when they get their
license. It should be for all 50 states.
You would, yes.
But it isn't. And so you have to apply to each state to have

(50:17):
your license. Or you're supposed to see patients that you
have your license in unless there's what's called a
peer. So the other day, I was doing a consult with someone
in Tennessee, and they just had a nurse
listing and all they do, the peer just listens
in.
Yes.
Sometimes I've had people that were
docs that were peers that just wanted to learn.
Yes.
And they were the peers. I've even had

(50:40):
massage therapists be peers or whatever
to somebody on the team.
We are so grateful for you.
I'm so grateful to call you my peer.
You have helped so many people, including
me and my family. Thank you again for giving
us an hour of your time.
That's it for today everybody.
So big thank you to Dr.
Musnick. I always learn so much when

(51:01):
I'm around you. And thank you for giving your
knowledge and just giving so much knowledge to the people
that are listening and spreading
positivity and hope and all the good
things.
And thank you for having me.
Thank you so much.
All right everybody, we'll see everybody next week I
believe. Dr.Carol is back.
So, we'll see everybody then.
Have a great week.
Bye.

(51:22):
Bye.
Thank you.
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144 - David Musnick and Kim Pittis: Insights on Autoimmunity and Frequency Specific Microcurrent

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}144 - David Musnick and Kim Pittis: Insights on Autoimmunity and Frequency Specific Microcurrent