March 6, 2025 • 49 mins
Most leaders think they need more strategy, experience, or skills to reach the next level—but what if the real issue is hidden in your own mind?
In this episode of From Crisis to Justice, Parag Amin sits down with Karen Brown, CEO of Exponential Results and executive coach with over 30 years of leadership experience. Karen uses neuroscience-based methodologies to help leaders identify blind spots, break through mental barriers, and unlock exponential growth.
Key takeaways include:
- How neuroscience reveals leadership blind spots you don’t even realize you have
- The truth about limiting beliefs and how they hold back business owners and executives
- Why conflict avoidance is costing companies billions—and how to handle it better
- How Karen’s Ironman training changed her approach to leadership coaching
- The #1 mindset shift that separates ordinary leaders from badass, high-performing ones
Karen doesn’t just talk about leadership—she’s competed in the Ironman World Championships, written a bestselling book, and developed the Badass Leadership Calculator, a tool designed to identify and overcome leadership blind spots.
If you’re ready to break past your mental barriers and step into your full leadership potential, this episode is a must-watch.
Learn more about Karen Brown & Exponential Results:
Karen's Website: https://yourexponentialresults.com/
Karen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karenbrown
Learn more about Parag Amin:
Parag's Business Law Firm: https://lawpla.com
Parag's Personal Website: https://paraglamin.com
Follow Parag:
.css-j9qmi7{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;font-weight:700;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:2.8rem;width:100%;-webkit-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webkit-justify-content:start;justify-content:start;padding-left:5rem;}@media only screen and (max-width: 599px){.css-j9qmi7{padding-left:0;-webkit-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webkit-justify-content:center;justify-content:center;}}.css-j9qmi7 svg{fill:#27292D;}.css-j9qmi7 .eagfbvw0{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;color:#27292D;}
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, I'm Parag Amin.
Welcome to my podcast.
From Crisis to Justice.
As a lawyer and entrepreneur, I'mpassionate about helping small business
owners successfully navigate situationsthat can kill a business.
As a kid, I watched my dad's dreamsof being an entrepreneur were destroyed
by an unethical businessman, and I don'twant that to happen to you or your family.
(00:22):
That's why I started my law firm.
I want to protect and defend businessowners and their legacies from crisis.
Welcome to From Crisis to Justice.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to From Crisis to Justice.
I am your host, Parag Amin,and I am joined
(00:44):
by a very special guest today,Karen Brown.
Karen is an executive coach.
She is the founder and CEO.
And the exponential resilience of resultsand that ask me, she has over 30 years
of corporate leadership experienceand 20000 hours of executive coaching.
She leverages neurosciencebased methodologies to help leaders
(01:06):
confront blind spots, break limitingpatterns and achieve exponential results.
She's competed in the Ironman WorldChampionships.
She's also a keynote speakerand the author of Unlimited Your Beliefs
72 Greater Successin Your Personal and Professional Life.
Karen,thank you so much for joining me today.
(01:28):
Oh, thanks for being here.
Thanks for having me on the show.I'm excited to be here.
Yeah. So listen, I mean,
I hear
a number of people going intoexecutive coaching now.
Now, the way
you do it is a very unique spin.
I mean, can you tell me a little bitabout what neuroscience
(01:49):
based methodologiesmeans when it comes to leadership coaching
and how that affects the leadersthat you're coaching?
Yes, absolutely.
So, first of all,let me take a micro step back
and just explainthat we build ordinary leaders into bold,
(02:09):
authentic, fearless trailblazerers who drive exponential results.
These are badass leaders.
So how we do it, and I'll share my screen.
So this was a big
revelation.
I'll say that I had about 12, 14 years ago
(02:33):
as I was studying how our brains work
and I need to learn how to do two things
at once, which I can't do.
All right.
All right.
So here is how we do it.
(02:55):
So neurosciencesimply means in this context
that we work in behavioral patterns,which is how all of our brains work,
which also means thatevery single one of us has blind spots.
These blind spots, just likeif you're looking in your side mirror
when you're driving,there are blind spots that you can't see.
(03:15):
And so if we look at the screen
and this is a very simplified versionof our minds,
there's a conscious leveland then an unconscious level,
which this is alsowe use a metaphor of an iceberg.
So the conscious level is
the part of the iceberg that you can seeabove the surface of the water.
(03:37):
Unconscious level is right belowthe surface of the water.
And then subconscious is the lowestor deepest part of your brain.
And it is like the tip of the iceberg
that as at the bottom that you can't see.
Now notice what this says here.
Blind spots show up.
(03:57):
Meaning the symptoms of themin our conscious level mind.
So they show upwhen we're at work. Mostly,
probably because that's most of whatwe spend our time on.
We spend the most time at work. Right.
So our blind spots show up there
and there are simply, simplya behavioral expression of patterns.
(04:20):
And we think it's just things that we do.
However, they're really just expressionsof patterns.
Okay.
So the interesting thing is
behavioral patterns are created
in our unconsciousand subconscious level mind.
So the work that we do conversationallythrough
(04:41):
coaching with clientsis at these two levels.
Okay.
Now, the fun part about this is andthis is where I geek out and love science,
because first of all, since it's science,it works for everyone.
Everybody's brain works the same.
Even though we might all have uniqueblind spots and patterns,
(05:02):
how we do these things is unique to us.
However, our brain creates and repeatsand changes
behavioral patterns in blind spotsall in the same way.
So as soon as we can revealand access them, we can transform them.
And because these two deeper levelsof our brain work
(05:24):
so much faster and and process
much, much greater
volume of information per secondthan our conscious level brain does,
we can make these changesmuch more rapidly
and even easilythan if we were trying to change a habit.
Right.
Because a habit shows upat the conscious level of our mind.
(05:49):
So if you liken this to
the speedand processing power of a skateboard
versus a space X rocket,
the skateboard would be workingin your conscious mind.
And this is what I'm just going to referto as
traditional kinds of leadershipdevelopment and coaching programs
(06:11):
that basically ask, okay,what is the problem?
What are our optionsand what's the best one?
You know, you're operating at thatconscious strategic level of your mind
and that's it. It sort of ends there.
But the Space X rocket is
when you can go deeper and workin the unconscious
(06:31):
and subconscious levels of the mind,
then it's the multiplier, the game changer
that really makes
an exponential difference.
Yeah, that's awesome.
So, you know,
in terms of the subconscious mindand in the blind spot, how does somebody
(06:52):
find out what the blind spots areif they can't see them?
And then how do you fix them?
Yeah.
So later in the show,we'll talk about the leadership.
Bad ass or the bad ass leadershipcalculator that we've created
to help reveal everybody's
every leaders blind spots,whether you're leading yourself.
(07:13):
You might be leading a couple of others,or you lead an entire team
or an entire organization.
Again, blind spots and behavioral patternsall work the same way, and it helps us
when we can reveal and see themand then go, Oh, oh, hey,
this is what's holding me back,or This is what's going on.
And again,we do that conversationally in coaching.
(07:35):
Me and all of our coaches
have the same ultrahigh level
credentials,combining leadership, executive coaching,
behavioral patterns and linguistics.
And we bring those to bearfor to figure out
with our clients behavioral patternsin blind spots quickly.
(07:58):
Because if you think about it, linguisticsis really the science
of the words that we use that revealwhat's going on for us.
So being experts in linguistics,we use that as a very quick diagnostic.
So basically, Parag,I could ask you a question,
and based onjust a one or two sentence answer,
I can immediatelypick up on through your words,
(08:21):
the behavioral patternsthat are going on for you.
And then I can ask you another question
to open that up,and then we'll be off to the races
and we can literally unearth them rapidly.
So much so that typically when clientsexperience this for the first time
and we, you
know, in three sentences,we get to the behavioral patterns,
(08:43):
they just sit back and pausefor a second and go, holy shit.
That's right.
How in the world did you know that?
It's like you read my mind.
No, I read your words.
And that enabled me to read your mindand how your mind works.
Yeah. Wow.
Again, I might.
I might regret asking this,
especially if one of my downfalls ends upwatching this video somehow.
(09:07):
But it's like we do it live.
Should we.
Should we demonstrate how it works?
Or is it is it a more complex processin that
we can try it live?
It's just it's difficult sometimes when,
you know, there's a lot of listenerswhen we have an audience, right.
Because then, you know,
(09:29):
the client can sometimes, you know,
put up a couple of wallsthat make it more difficult.
Yeah, but absolutely, I'm game if you are.
Okay.
I mean, how how unusualare these questions going to be?
You know,
not very unusual.
Okay. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah.
All right, So, Parag,
(09:51):
think about your business goals
and then your daily business,your day to day
schedule.
So tell me,
what do you think is the biggest pattern
that is holding you back from achievingall of your current
(10:11):
goals?
The day to day firefighting.
Dealing with, I call themsmall problems versus big problems.
So dealing with big picture issues,strategy on cases,
moving the firm forwardso we can help more people.
That's what I like to be doing.
(10:32):
And then there's a lot of subcomponentto it, whether it's my team,
including lawyerswho have questions and strategy on cases
or issues, or if it's a casethat I'm personally still handling.
There's a lot of little thingsthat come up in litigation or disputes
that very time sensitive is
well, is very expensive to get around.
(10:53):
So there isn't
there isn't margin for error.
So there's an aspect of just wantingto make sure everything is perfect.
All of the time,which takes a lot of time and attention.
Mm hmm. Okay.
So are you saying that firefightinggets in the way
of achieving all of your current businessgoals?
(11:16):
Yes. Okay.
And there's there'san element of perfection also involved.
Right.
And precision or
really deep alacrity
that you have to perform, Right,for clients?
Yes. Okay. All right.
(11:38):
So where did that pattern originate?
Because this is soundinglike the pattern of
the pattern
that maybe came from your dad, himbeing put out of business
and ultimately maybe bankrupted.
(12:00):
Right.
And not not being able to have justiceserved.
Yeah, very possibly.
I think that my personal view is that
when somebody isn't
precise about what they door approaches things
with an amateur level,that leads to a lot of problems.
(12:25):
So casualness leads to casualties.
And it's something then
that I'm not okay with personally.
Hmm. Gotcha.
Okay.
So what percentage of the time
would you say that firefighting and,you know, maybe the desire
(12:47):
to perfectly perform rightand not have any casualties
gets in your way, stopsyou from achieving your goals?
What percentage?
Well, it's interesting becauseI still make progress on the goals,
just not to the extent that I'd likemeaning as quickly as I'd like.
(13:07):
So yeah, I would say probablyabout 60 maybe 70% of the time.
Uh huh. Yeah. Got it.
Okay, very good.
So what is the transformed version
of that pattern, higher level patternthat is going to deliver 100%
(13:32):
enable you to achieve 100% of your goals
within the time that you'd like.
What is the transformed version?
Meaning, How does it happen?
Or just what occurs?
Meaning, I'm not sure.
What can you do?
Yeah, what can you do?
How can you change it?
(13:52):
So then you take that to 100%.
Yeah, well, I mean, for example,one of the things we're doing right now
is we're hiring for a manager of trainingat a very high level.
We have a number of candidateswho highly selective about this person
to make sure that they can runat the level that we would want them to.
So that's certainly something thatwe're working on, as well as systematizing
(14:14):
my approach to cases in a high able
to share that with somebody so they can
then use that same approach in philosophyso that if there's
anything lost in translationor in the passing of the time.
Yeah.
And incorporating your standards, right?
Yes. Casualness leads to casualties.
(14:36):
Right. Here's what we're going for.
Right. This is the standard,
right?
Exactly. Yeah.
Okay.
And then it's going to be for youa matter of letting some things go.
That's right.
Delegating some things.
Truly letting them go.
Right. Not micromanaging.
(14:57):
Not even managing.
Basically letting go.
Empower, wringand then holding accountable.
Right.
Yeah.
Oh, how's that feel?
Good.
I mean, you know,in terms of it's interesting because
I think I think a lot of entrepreneursare probably like that.
(15:19):
But you tell me I mean, you know, in termsof the executive coaching component
and the leaders that you deal within that transformation process, my thought
and this is just a guesstimatethat my guesstimate is that a number of
leaders are very much of exactlythat same way of like,
I need to have that control.
I want to make sure that things are donecorrectly and done well
(15:40):
and that are clientsor customers are taken care of
even.
Yeah, absolutely. Yes.
Thousand percentand it goes a little bit deeper than that
because our behavioral patterns
and blindspots are set upmuch earlier in life.
(16:01):
You know, So what age were youwhen you saw your dad go through this?
So I was young.
I was we had gottenwe had moved to Florida when I was three
and I was four and a halfwhen actually my dad ended up.
I see him I started to see the downfall.
And then essentially fivewhen it was pretty much done.
(16:24):
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Are these some of your earliest memories?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Because it went from a very happy,
loving living in Florida to it memories.
And all of a sudden we're moving.
I can't keep all my toys.
We don't have enough room,that kind of thing.
And so becomes a challenging thing.
(16:46):
So, you know, one thing and, you know, andyou know, something deep down is wrong.
Something's really wrong, right?
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
It's interesting because the subconscious,at least from my understanding,
is it's supposed to besomething that helps protect you
and is there and designed to help you.
(17:06):
But for whatever reason that further upyou get in life
or in age,however you want to refer to it.
A lot of times it's the very thingthat ends up holding you back.
Even though it's intended to protect you,it actually keeps you from achieving
that end goal. Is that is that.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah. Let's restate itjust a little bit differently.
(17:27):
But you've got it.
Yes. This is exactly how it happened.
Okay. So first of all, again,
traumatic events, traumatic experiences.
And they don't have to be highly emotional
to be considered traumatic.
Anything that you haveor anything that we experience
as something negative or
(17:50):
intense or highly memorable
registers as trauma.
Okay.
And you're right.
Our subconscious brain formsa behavioral pattern
because of that trauma to protect us.
First of all, to be ableto just move on from it.
(18:13):
Right.
Because if we didn't do that,we would be stuck in a catatonic state,
you know,sucking our thumb in the corner forever.
That'd be it. Right.
So enables us to move on.
But it also sort of catalogsit, like cements it in our brain.
Right. That memory is always there.
And then what you'rewhat you explained is absolutely
(18:37):
on target.
So what happens is it serves us well.
It serves us well.
It servesas well as we go throughout our life
until we get toa certain level of evolution.
And then it tips over
and then it gets in our way.
Right.
And that'sthat's at the time to change it.
Not before.
Yep. You can choose to change it before,
(19:01):
you know, like like all of your listeners,you know, they're listening in
to get tools and strategiesfor the day that they're going to need it.
Right.
They can choose to be proactiveand make those changes now.
Right. So that it won't tip over for them.
That's probably the best strategy.
Or you can just put it in your hip pocketand wait until that day comes
(19:24):
and then be under a lot of pressure,perhaps to change it.
But also you'll probably look backand realize
the other things that it kept youfrom maybe opportunity cost.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So might as well if youif you can get in touch with it.
Now if you can fathom what it isnow, change it now.
(19:45):
You're going to have much better outcomesand exponential results going forward.
Well, it's interesting that you saychange it now, because one thing
I notice to myselfand and others is that, one, my personal
my personal opinionis that it only takes a moment
to make a decisionthat can change your life forever.
Yeah, but for a lot of the things we knowwe should be doing or need to be doing,
(20:06):
whether it New Year's resolution, we'rerecording this in January of 2025.
But it's as timeless as any year in time,which is that
we all have these intentions
or stated intentions,and then eventually they fall off.
But then at some point it clicks of, okay,this is actually what I'm going to do.
And you stick with it.
(20:27):
So what makes that differenceor that shift between somebody saying
they want to do something and actuallybeing willing to commit to it?
My personal my personal thing is
I think there's some aspectof how uncomfortable are you?
How much do you dislike that thingyou're willing to change?
Because if you're you eventually fallunder the old pattern, then I think
(20:49):
and again, this is not based onany kind of particular science.
I haven't studied this,
but just my general thought on itis, look, there's some level
of aspect of comfort with that thing,that you're still comfortable with it
and you're more comfortable with itand then uncomfortable with it.
So if you're uncomfortable with itfor two or three days out of the week or
two or 3 hours out of the day,but the rest of the time
(21:10):
you're fine with it, thenyou've got more comfort than discomfort.
Is that is that the thing
or is it is it something elseor is it a combination of things?
What you're talking about,what you're referring to is level
of desire, level of willingness to change.
That has to be higher than continuing
(21:31):
to experience whatever that thing is,whatever that pattern is.
Right.
So let me show you this.
This is really cooland this is exactly why we created it.
So as an ascending leader myself,
I was always looking for, you know, that
multiplier that was going to
(21:55):
enable me to change
much more quickly and easier, right?
Instead of that white knuckleforcing it every step of the way.
That that is involved in a habit change.
I wanted it to be muchmore straightforward, easier and faster.
So what I've got on the screen rightnow is our proprietary portal.
(22:17):
It's called the Badass Leadership Portal.
And every client,this is also a mobile app by the way.
And every client has their ownprivate log in.
And I'm going to show the secret saucejust to your listeners through my
my log in.
So functionality on the left hand side
(22:39):
and pay specific attentionto this thing called metrics.
So for every goal that we're working on,
we will come upwith a metric of measurement, right?
Because you only get what you measure,right?
We can even we can measure trulyanything in this even soft stuff, right?
So the cool part about that is we created
(23:01):
this using neuroscienceas the basis of it.
So understanding how our brain creates
repeatand ultimately changes behavioral patterns
to support you in making that as easyand straightforward as it can be.
This is how it's done.
(23:21):
First of all, you have to have higherlevel awareness, heightened
awareness of the thingthat you are committed to changing.
We do that by
setting up a metric of measurementfor the thing that we want to change,
and then we check in on itevery single day at the same time.
Now, what the cool part about this systemis, it will actually send you a prompt.
(23:43):
Hey, how's this coming along?
So that you then
plot a data pointthat reflects how you're doing with it?
Then you can see over just,
you know, two or three or four daysyour trend.
Oh, I'm making good progress.
Your brain sees this.
You're unconsciousand subconscious levels of your brain sees
(24:06):
this and goes, Oh, great,I want more of that.
And then it will continueto make the changes to bring that about.
So it's like you're leveragingyour own brain.
It's so wondrous.
Truly.
Yeah, it is great when you're when you're
when your brain and your lifeare working together to help support
(24:28):
you and your aspects and your goals.
So what do you tell your clientswhen it's like, for example,
I think a lot of executives,global leaders struggle with
the healthy lifestyle.
Mm hmm.
Especially in the United States, it's it'smuch easier to just get junk food
than it is to get healthy real food.
(24:49):
So from a perspective of
there's very few friends or colleagueswho say, like, you know,
oh, yeah, I really messed up on my dietat the beginning of the day.
It's always like, ah, almost alwaysat the end of the day, long day.
It's been wrong.
It's when your willpower is the weakest.
Mm hmm.
Or at the end of a week,you're out with friends.
(25:10):
So what do you tell yourclients about how to stay?
How to stay
on the path during those moments,those weakest moments?
And are there any neurosciencebased approaches
that one can use to to stay on the pathand those weak points?
Because the strong points, they feel likethey take care of themselves.
Many times you motivated your motivatedand things are going smoothly,
(25:32):
but it's when you're not motivated
or you're feeling a little bit downthat it becomes a lot more challenging.
Mm hmm. Yeah.
So first things first, we've got to knowwhat behavioral pattern is at play there.
So, for instance,
I specifically workedwith an executive on this.
We've worked with a lot of executiveson this, to tell you the truth.
(25:52):
And one particular one stands outin my mind, because this guy's a golfer
and he's still relatively young.
I mean, I'm 56, but he's 40 ish something
mid-forties,you know, full family, very successful.
Yeah. Great. Great guy. Great leader.
Anyway, I
(26:13):
just kept carryingaround these extra pounds.
Couldn't seem to take it offno matter what program he tried.
And so we start working on it.
We had been working on this leadershipfor a while by that point.
And he said, well, can we canwe work on this?
Sure.
So drilling down just like I did with youa moment ago, we found that
(26:34):
the behavioral patternthat was driving that bus
that would cause him to overeat
or to want to reach forand then overeat junk food
was from when he was a kid
and he would come home from school,from football practice.
And his mom was a prodigious baker.
(26:57):
And so she would have a spread
of cookies and baked goods
that could rivalany great bakery, all for him.
And she would just love on himand welcome him, you know?
How was your day at school?How did you do football?
Oh, you must be hungry, you know.
And that was her way of showing love.
(27:18):
Well, that for him,
conjured up safety and security
and happiness, even
frivolity is the word that that covered itfor him.
Right.
And so he found that when he would reachfor those kinds of things
and he would literally feel this cravingor he would feel that
(27:41):
that pang of hunger or whathe thought was hunger, truly fake hunger.
It's emotionally driven hunger.
Right.
It's because he was in situationswhere maybe he didn't feel so confident,
Maybe he didn't feel so, so safeor like it was not fun
to do whatever he was having to do.
Yeah.
Once we, you know, revealed that
(28:02):
it was this huge aha.
We created a metric for himand it's like the pounds just melted off
and he was able to see it in the moment,connect it with that and go, Oh, okay.
Now this is another secretof being able to change or transform
your behavioral pattern into somethingthat is going to serve you better
(28:26):
once you know it
and you're in that moment,you've got to interrupt it
and then go, This is not that meaning
this situation is not the sameas that situation
that originatedor created that behavioral pattern.
And if you can visualize the two,
(28:47):
the two different situations even better,because then your brain will pick it up
even faster and go,Oh, okay, we're making a change.
We don't do that anymore.
Now we do this. Right.
So then whatever the new pattern is,we simply engage
that oneright after we say this is not that.
(29:07):
Basically, by saying this is notthat we're severing
that old behavioral pattern andthen we connect it up with the new one.
Say it's,
you know, I'm I'm healthy,
I'm confident,I'm happy, and I eat cleanly.
Something like that.
Maybe even more simple than that.
(29:28):
But then we we'vewe embed that in our brain and it works.
And indeed, you have in changethe behavior with instead of
eating a candy bar,have an apple or anything like that.
Because after that,you have to trade out the behavior to not
eating like you have to.
If that that a lot of peoplemake a mistake
(29:48):
of not trading out the behavior thatthey're going to exchange the bad behavior
with with the good one.
Do you agree with thator disagree with that? Yes, absolutely.
But ultimately,you want the whole behavior to change.
You want that old
and antithetical behavior to stop.
Right.
You want to stop the craving, the drive,
(30:10):
you know, for cookies and and baked goods.
Right.
Or whateverit is you're eating that you shouldn't be.
And so
that workedrather than working on the strategies.
Well, here'swhat you can substitute for that.
Just think in your mindabout eating less of that one thing.
Yeah, you can reach for the candy barif that's what you have to have,
(30:34):
but just eat two bites of it.
Yes, that's a strategy,but that's a conscious level strategy.
It's not really addressing and changingwhat's driving it.
Yes, that makes sense.
Yeah.
So it's like going to the doctor
and they treat symptomsrather than the root cause.
(30:55):
Right. Which happens far too often.
Yeah. Yeah.
So shifting gears a little bitfrom from talking about baked goods
and candy bars to let's talk aboutcompeting in an Ironman,
pretty much the the almost opposite,the antithesis of this.
So tell us a little bitabout competing in an Ironman.
(31:15):
What kind of mindset that takes?
And maybe just explain a little bitabout what the Ironman competition is,
because you and I know what it is,but a lot of people don't maybe
realize how grueling it isand all of the events required.
And it's one contiguous
race andso there's really no time for rest.
(31:36):
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Okay.
So the Ironman is a long distancetriathlon
that's comprised of a 2.4 mile swim,
a 112 mile bike ride,
and then finish off with a 26.2 milemarathon.
You have 17 hours to complete all of itcontinuously in that order,
(31:58):
and you get to pay for the
pleasure of doing that kind of race.
And my specific dream and goalwas to compete
in the Ironman World Championships.
So this is the best of the best.
This is the 2000 best, usually largely
(32:19):
pro athletes from across the globe
that qualify for this race in use to be inKona, Hawaii.
Now, they alternatein different locations, but
also the conditions in Hawaiifor this race are brutal.
Extreme crosswinds, extreme heat.
(32:41):
It usually always has torrential rainson part of the course.
It did the day I was there.
You also get to swim in a bay
in the ocean for your 2.4 mile swimwith 2000 of your closest competitor.
Friends all kicking you in the faceand the head and everywhere.
Yeah, that's kind of fun.
(33:02):
And also, you're in the ocean,so there's jellyfish, there's sharks,
there's all sorts of wonderful creaturesin there helping you along.
So, yeah.
And it, it,it is regarded in a lot of circles
as the toughest race on the planet.
So what made you want to compete in that?
And how, if at all,
(33:25):
has the approaches Ironman competitions
and the World Championshipaffected your leadership coaching?
Hmm. So here's how it went.
I was 14 years old,
flipping through the TV channelsone day and I stopped
at the coverage of the Ironman WorldChampionships in Hawaii.
(33:45):
Now, I was 14.
I had no idea what a triathlon wasor what an Ironman was.
I had never heard of it before,but I was immediately struck
by the drama that I saw unfoldingin this particular race.
There were two women who were leading therace, Julie Moss and Kathleen McCartney.
(34:06):
Both were collegiate athletes,
very well renowned and Julie
led the racethe whole day, except she didn't fuel well
and she started to collapse on the course.
She also lost control of her bowels.
(34:26):
Yeah.
And yet she would not give up.
She never stopped.
So I watched this race goingon, can't figure out what the heck it is,
but I also can't turn myself awayfrom watching it.
It's like watching a train wreckand you just can't look away.
I sat down on the couch watching it,
(34:46):
and all of a sudden I started to cry
and I didn't understand at the timewhy I later figured it out.
And it was becauseas I was watching this immense thing
which I had these feelings
deep inside that, Hey,what if I have what it takes to do that
(35:08):
inside of me and I'm not tapping into it.
I'm leading this small safe life
and I'm not tapping all of my potential.
So I watched the rest of the race.
Kathleen At the very end,when it's dark outside,
(35:29):
they've been racing thewhole day. It's dark outside.
Julie is crawling toward the finish line.
Kathleen overtakes her for the win.
Julie didn't give up.
She still crossed the finishline, crawling.
Mind you. But she still finished.
This really stuck with me,
(35:50):
mostly because I interpreted it as
a way to see what I was made of.
A way to expand myself
and really push that really
expand my comfort zone a long way.
(36:11):
Because whenever I thought about,Oh, could I do that?
How would I do that?
I would break out in a cold sweatand feel like I was going to vomit.
That's when I knew that
that was the exact thing that I had to do.
I had to prove to myselfthat I could do it.
(36:31):
And then it became a metaphorfor my leadership.
It paralleled my leadership, growthand development
and journey into what we do now,
making the biggest differencewe can on the planet with leaders.
Because they have the biggestripple effect with everyone.
Yeah.
So then I used I incorporated my knowledge
(36:54):
and then expertise of neuroscience also
forever.
For my entire life,I've been a student of human beings.
Like, I'm just always fascinatedand I have an insatiable appetite
to understand human behaviorand how to take it further,
how to take performanceand effectiveness further.
So I parlayed I combined all of that
(37:18):
in my journeyto the Ironman World Championships
and then beyond,because after that I wrote the book
because I want to eradicatelimiting beliefs
which we all strugglewith, and limiting beliefs are nothing,
nothing more than a behavioral patternand a blind spot.
So my limiting beliefswith regard to the Ironman were, well,
(37:40):
if I think about, you know,competing in the race, I'm just down here.
I'm a lowly recreational athlete.
And compared to the elite level
athletes from around the world
who are invited to do this race,how am I ever going to get there?
There's no way.
That's the definition of a limitingbelief.
(38:02):
And we take that
because it feels in our brain like it'sfact.
It's not.
It's just a four letter wordthat begins with F.
No, it's actually false.
There's a different four letter wordthat it begins with begins with F, But
that's how I started to learn
how I could transform behavioral patterns,because I started
(38:23):
with all the limiting beliefsthat sit in my way
of that dream of the Ironman.
And I love that story. Excellent.
Mm hmm. Yeah.
So ultimately, it wasit was figuring out and finding the key
to myselfto unlock my performance and potential.
And that's what as leaders,you know, owners, solopreneur
(38:45):
entrepreneurs, business leaders,that's what we're all trying to do.
Right.
And how important is physicality,if at all, of the leadership,
physicality,physicality, meaning being being willing
to push yourself physically and endurecertain kinds of physical challenges,
whether it's running exercise,marathons, Ironman competitions,
(39:06):
etc., I don't think physicalityis that important.
I think mental toughness, mental stamina
and the willingness to figure out
your own, your own stuff,
that is really the key.
Because one of the first big ideasI had in the first year
(39:29):
of training for Ironman and keep in mind
at the time I was a brand new CEO,I was working,
gosh,until sometimes six, seven, 8:00 at night.
And I was also training about 25 hours
a week just for Ironman.
Yeah.
So I had it all going on
(39:52):
and a big Aha.
Right then was, Hey, wait a minute,
this is only 10% physical
and 90%mental versus when I started training,
I was sure that it was 90% physical.
Could I physically do this?
(40:12):
Could my body do it rightand only 10% mental?
It's exactly the opposite.
And that is what is true in leadershipas well.
Interesting.
And you think that's regardless ofof that, someone's physicality, meaning,
you know, if
you are an amazing athlete already
(40:34):
and you have certaingenetic dispositions or
you're just very good at athletics fromeven when you were younger versus somebody
who may not have that general disposition,you still think those percentages hold?
No, because that's a different thing.
But when we're talking about leaders,here's the truth
Badass leaders are built.
(40:57):
They are not born yet.
And I know, you know, there'sbeen a lot of discussion about this.
Are leaders born or are they built?
No Leaders are built.
Nobody comes out of the wombbeing an exceptional, badass leader.
No, These are all things that wehave to learn, right?
And to
(41:19):
build upon.
Right.
Whereas the scenariothat you just talked about
is, you know, a naturally gifted,
you know, athlete that is different
because none of us are naturally giftedin the area of leadership.
Now, I've come across some great leaders,but for them to go from great to elite
(41:42):
also takes development and work
right? Yes.You know, and I agree with that.
I mean, my thought on this is leadersand people have different pieces
that they're born with.
So each leader I mean, there'sthere's a general set of traits
that all great leaders I think will have,including mental stamina.
(42:03):
There's a
there's a level of physical staminathat is required, strategic
thinking, compassion, understanding
people, emotional intelligence,those kinds of things.
And people just are born with moreof certain pieces than other pieces.
And it's kind of finding the pieces that,
you know, each one of us is missingas the leader, identifying them
(42:24):
and figuring out how to build that pieceto make yourself a better leader.
Yeah, agree.
You know? Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
That's how you truly become badass,
You know, when you're firingon all cylinders in leadership.
That bad ass.
Well, what's the most common blind spot?
Or missing piece?
(42:45):
Using the analogy you've been using thatyou find the leaders are.
Well, the most common, really high
level is self-awareness, right?
Those leaders that
they are not, they're unaware of things.
A feedback that people would give them.
(43:07):
Right.
Oh, you micromanage.
You know,you are like a bull in a china shop.
You know,you tend to think that, you know,
your idea or your way is the best wayor the only way.
Right.
So you don't you don't open it upand solicit ideas from everybody
on the team to make,you know, the best decision possible.
(43:28):
Those all those kinds of things allhave to do with a lack of self-awareness.
Right.
And your self-awareness is really okay.
How am I contributing to the situationsthat I'm experiencing?
Right.
Because every single one of us contributesto the situations that we experience
every day.
(43:49):
Self-awareness comes when we become aware
of what those contributions are,and we can see them.
We can pick up on them.
So from there, from
self-awareness,it falls down to things like
imposter syndrome
or, just at a at a lower level,
(44:11):
you know, lack of
confidence in your role.
And that leads to being ableto find your authentic voice
and to be authentic in general.
You know, there's a large discussion
that's been going onfor probably the last five years on
(44:34):
am I supposed to be or is it best for me
to be totally authentic in my leadership?
And all of authenticitymeans in this context
is that you share your whole self
with everyoneand you share the same with everyone
that you come in contact with as a leader.
Because old school leadership
(44:58):
beliefs were that no, you know,
you put on a very professional exterior
and you're that way with everybodyunless it's people that, you know,
maybe you formed friendshipsor professional relationships with, then,
you know,you might let them in a little bit more.
They might knowmore of you than other people do.
And what we found through scientificresearch over the last five years is that,
(45:22):
no, that's actually not the best way
when everyone that you're leading
feels like they actuallyknow the authentic you,
then you can be your
most effective, warts and all.
Now, this does not give anyone licenseto be an asshole because you can't just
(45:42):
say, Well, I'm being authenticand I'm I'm generally an asshole.
No, that's not what we're talking about.
You still would need to findan appropriate,
authentic, professional voice,
but one that is also personal,
that you let people into who you are as a person, right?
(46:04):
What you believe, what you like,what you don't like, what you find funny.
Right.
Also conflict avoidance.
Sorry. I'll finish with this one.
Conflictavoidance is a huge one, very pervasive.
And now that we're seeing five generationsin the workforce, every generation deals
with conflict a little bit differently,some better than others.
(46:27):
Some lean in because they realizeit's a way to work things out
productively and to really get tothe other side of something.
And thenmost people now they shy away from it.
Oh, I don't like conflict.
It's really uncomfortable.
I don't want to feel like I'mwith somebody else.
I don'tI don't know how that's going to look
(46:49):
and feelthat doesn't feel good or safe to me.
So I'm just going to pull back and I'mgoing to avoid conflict at all costs.
But the problem is conflictor unproductive conflict,
I should say, costs companies 635
billion annually
is staggering.
(47:09):
I've never heard that statistic.
Yeah, mind boggling.
Yeah, that's incredibly insightful though.
Karen, If people want to find outa little bit more about you
and your leadership coaching,how can they find you
email me at Karen.
That's r e n sorry.
(47:31):
Yeah. Karen,
I was wondering if there was a Scott Brownafter my name on this one or not.
No, there's notKaren at Bad Ass Ink Dot Pro
that will take you right to meand me only.
Also, I'm on LinkedIn.
Karen Brown Exponential results
(47:52):
and you can get in touch there and smile.
DM We can get in touch that way.
And also we are just
launching something called the Bad AssLeadership Calculator
that we talked about itat the top of the show briefly.
This is really cool.
We're using AI and our expertise
(48:12):
in neuroscience to very quickly,just through a few questions
like we do in coaching to identifyand reveal your behavioral pattern.
So those those that are effectiveto your leadership
and also your leadership blindspots.
So those blind spots that by developingthem, you will be a total badass leader.
(48:34):
That's what it'll show you.
Awesome.
Well, Karen,
thank you so much for your incredibleinsights today and for joining me today.
Thank you.
Such fun being on your show.
And thank you very muchand to the listeners.
Thank you All so much for joining.
I hope you got some incredible insightsthat you can apply
(48:57):
to your own leadership,your own business, into your own life.
Again, Karen,thank you so much for joining us today.
Appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Hi, I'm Parag Amin.
Welcome to my podcast.
From Crisis to Justice.
As a lawyer and entrepreneur, I'mpassionate about helping small business
owners successfully navigate situationsthat can kill a business.
As a kid, I watched my dad's dreamsof being an entrepreneur were destroyed
by an unethical businessman, and I don'twant that to happen to you or your family.
(00:22):
That's why I started my law firm.
I want to protect and defend businessowners and their legacies from crisis.
Welcome to From Crisis to Justice.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to From Crisis to Justice.
I am your host, Parag Amin,and I am joined
(00:44):
by a very special guest today,Karen Brown.
Karen is an executive coach.
She is the founder and CEO.
And the exponential resilience of resultsand that ask me, she has over 30 years
of corporate leadership experienceand 20000 hours of executive coaching.
She leverages neurosciencebased methodologies to help leaders
(01:06):
confront blind spots, break limitingpatterns and achieve exponential results.
She's competed in the Ironman WorldChampionships.
She's also a keynote speakerand the author of Unlimited Your Beliefs
72 Greater Successin Your Personal and Professional Life.
Karen,thank you so much for joining me today.
(01:28):
Oh, thanks for being here.
Thanks for having me on the show.I'm excited to be here.
Yeah. So listen, I mean,
I hear
a number of people going intoexecutive coaching now.
Now, the way
you do it is a very unique spin.
I mean, can you tell me a little bitabout what neuroscience
(01:49):
based methodologiesmeans when it comes to leadership coaching
and how that affects the leadersthat you're coaching?
Yes, absolutely.
So, first of all,let me take a micro step back
and just explainthat we build ordinary leaders into bold,
(02:09):
authentic, fearless trailblazerers who drive exponential results.
These are badass leaders.
So how we do it, and I'll share my screen.
So this was a big
revelation.
I'll say that I had about 12, 14 years ago
(02:33):
as I was studying how our brains work
and I need to learn how to do two things
at once, which I can't do.
All right.
All right.
So here is how we do it.
(02:55):
So neurosciencesimply means in this context
that we work in behavioral patterns,which is how all of our brains work,
which also means thatevery single one of us has blind spots.
These blind spots, just likeif you're looking in your side mirror
when you're driving,there are blind spots that you can't see.
(03:15):
And so if we look at the screen
and this is a very simplified versionof our minds,
there's a conscious leveland then an unconscious level,
which this is alsowe use a metaphor of an iceberg.
So the conscious level is
the part of the iceberg that you can seeabove the surface of the water.
(03:37):
Unconscious level is right belowthe surface of the water.
And then subconscious is the lowestor deepest part of your brain.
And it is like the tip of the iceberg
that as at the bottom that you can't see.
Now notice what this says here.
Blind spots show up.
(03:57):
Meaning the symptoms of themin our conscious level mind.
So they show upwhen we're at work. Mostly,
probably because that's most of whatwe spend our time on.
We spend the most time at work. Right.
So our blind spots show up there
and there are simply, simplya behavioral expression of patterns.
(04:20):
And we think it's just things that we do.
However, they're really just expressionsof patterns.
Okay.
So the interesting thing is
behavioral patterns are created
in our unconsciousand subconscious level mind.
So the work that we do conversationallythrough
(04:41):
coaching with clientsis at these two levels.
Okay.
Now, the fun part about this is andthis is where I geek out and love science,
because first of all, since it's science,it works for everyone.
Everybody's brain works the same.
Even though we might all have uniqueblind spots and patterns,
(05:02):
how we do these things is unique to us.
However, our brain creates and repeatsand changes
behavioral patterns in blind spotsall in the same way.
So as soon as we can revealand access them, we can transform them.
And because these two deeper levelsof our brain work
(05:24):
so much faster and and process
much, much greater
volume of information per secondthan our conscious level brain does,
we can make these changesmuch more rapidly
and even easilythan if we were trying to change a habit.
Right.
Because a habit shows upat the conscious level of our mind.
(05:49):
So if you liken this to
the speedand processing power of a skateboard
versus a space X rocket,
the skateboard would be workingin your conscious mind.
And this is what I'm just going to referto as
traditional kinds of leadershipdevelopment and coaching programs
(06:11):
that basically ask, okay,what is the problem?
What are our optionsand what's the best one?
You know, you're operating at thatconscious strategic level of your mind
and that's it. It sort of ends there.
But the Space X rocket is
when you can go deeper and workin the unconscious
(06:31):
and subconscious levels of the mind,
then it's the multiplier, the game changer
that really makes
an exponential difference.
Yeah, that's awesome.
So, you know,
in terms of the subconscious mindand in the blind spot, how does somebody
(06:52):
find out what the blind spots areif they can't see them?
And then how do you fix them?
Yeah.
So later in the show,we'll talk about the leadership.
Bad ass or the bad ass leadershipcalculator that we've created
to help reveal everybody's
every leaders blind spots,whether you're leading yourself.
(07:13):
You might be leading a couple of others,or you lead an entire team
or an entire organization.
Again, blind spots and behavioral patternsall work the same way, and it helps us
when we can reveal and see themand then go, Oh, oh, hey,
this is what's holding me back,or This is what's going on.
And again,we do that conversationally in coaching.
(07:35):
Me and all of our coaches
have the same ultrahigh level
credentials,combining leadership, executive coaching,
behavioral patterns and linguistics.
And we bring those to bearfor to figure out
with our clients behavioral patternsin blind spots quickly.
(07:58):
Because if you think about it, linguisticsis really the science
of the words that we use that revealwhat's going on for us.
So being experts in linguistics,we use that as a very quick diagnostic.
So basically, Parag,I could ask you a question,
and based onjust a one or two sentence answer,
I can immediatelypick up on through your words,
(08:21):
the behavioral patternsthat are going on for you.
And then I can ask you another question
to open that up,and then we'll be off to the races
and we can literally unearth them rapidly.
So much so that typically when clientsexperience this for the first time
and we, you
know, in three sentences,we get to the behavioral patterns,
(08:43):
they just sit back and pausefor a second and go, holy shit.
That's right.
How in the world did you know that?
It's like you read my mind.
No, I read your words.
And that enabled me to read your mindand how your mind works.
Yeah. Wow.
Again, I might.
I might regret asking this,
especially if one of my downfalls ends upwatching this video somehow.
(09:07):
But it's like we do it live.
Should we.
Should we demonstrate how it works?
Or is it is it a more complex processin that
we can try it live?
It's just it's difficult sometimes when,
you know, there's a lot of listenerswhen we have an audience, right.
Because then, you know,
(09:29):
the client can sometimes, you know,
put up a couple of wallsthat make it more difficult.
Yeah, but absolutely, I'm game if you are.
Okay.
I mean, how how unusualare these questions going to be?
You know,
not very unusual.
Okay. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah.
All right, So, Parag,
(09:51):
think about your business goals
and then your daily business,your day to day
schedule.
So tell me,
what do you think is the biggest pattern
that is holding you back from achievingall of your current
(10:11):
goals?
The day to day firefighting.
Dealing with, I call themsmall problems versus big problems.
So dealing with big picture issues,strategy on cases,
moving the firm forwardso we can help more people.
That's what I like to be doing.
(10:32):
And then there's a lot of subcomponentto it, whether it's my team,
including lawyerswho have questions and strategy on cases
or issues, or if it's a casethat I'm personally still handling.
There's a lot of little thingsthat come up in litigation or disputes
that very time sensitive is
well, is very expensive to get around.
(10:53):
So there isn't
there isn't margin for error.
So there's an aspect of just wantingto make sure everything is perfect.
All of the time,which takes a lot of time and attention.
Mm hmm. Okay.
So are you saying that firefightinggets in the way
of achieving all of your current businessgoals?
(11:16):
Yes. Okay.
And there's there'san element of perfection also involved.
Right.
And precision or
really deep alacrity
that you have to perform, Right,for clients?
Yes. Okay. All right.
(11:38):
So where did that pattern originate?
Because this is soundinglike the pattern of
the pattern
that maybe came from your dad, himbeing put out of business
and ultimately maybe bankrupted.
(12:00):
Right.
And not not being able to have justiceserved.
Yeah, very possibly.
I think that my personal view is that
when somebody isn't
precise about what they door approaches things
with an amateur level,that leads to a lot of problems.
(12:25):
So casualness leads to casualties.
And it's something then
that I'm not okay with personally.
Hmm. Gotcha.
Okay.
So what percentage of the time
would you say that firefighting and,you know, maybe the desire
(12:47):
to perfectly perform rightand not have any casualties
gets in your way, stopsyou from achieving your goals?
What percentage?
Well, it's interesting becauseI still make progress on the goals,
just not to the extent that I'd likemeaning as quickly as I'd like.
(13:07):
So yeah, I would say probablyabout 60 maybe 70% of the time.
Uh huh. Yeah. Got it.
Okay, very good.
So what is the transformed version
of that pattern, higher level patternthat is going to deliver 100%
(13:32):
enable you to achieve 100% of your goals
within the time that you'd like.
What is the transformed version?
Meaning, How does it happen?
Or just what occurs?
Meaning, I'm not sure.
What can you do?
Yeah, what can you do?
How can you change it?
(13:52):
So then you take that to 100%.
Yeah, well, I mean, for example,one of the things we're doing right now
is we're hiring for a manager of trainingat a very high level.
We have a number of candidateswho highly selective about this person
to make sure that they can runat the level that we would want them to.
So that's certainly something thatwe're working on, as well as systematizing
(14:14):
my approach to cases in a high able
to share that with somebody so they can
then use that same approach in philosophyso that if there's
anything lost in translationor in the passing of the time.
Yeah.
And incorporating your standards, right?
Yes. Casualness leads to casualties.
(14:36):
Right. Here's what we're going for.
Right. This is the standard,
right?
Exactly. Yeah.
Okay.
And then it's going to be for youa matter of letting some things go.
That's right.
Delegating some things.
Truly letting them go.
Right. Not micromanaging.
(14:57):
Not even managing.
Basically letting go.
Empower, wringand then holding accountable.
Right.
Yeah.
Oh, how's that feel?
Good.
I mean, you know,in terms of it's interesting because
I think I think a lot of entrepreneursare probably like that.
(15:19):
But you tell me I mean, you know, in termsof the executive coaching component
and the leaders that you deal within that transformation process, my thought
and this is just a guesstimatethat my guesstimate is that a number of
leaders are very much of exactlythat same way of like,
I need to have that control.
I want to make sure that things are donecorrectly and done well
(15:40):
and that are clientsor customers are taken care of
even.
Yeah, absolutely. Yes.
Thousand percentand it goes a little bit deeper than that
because our behavioral patterns
and blindspots are set upmuch earlier in life.
(16:01):
You know, So what age were youwhen you saw your dad go through this?
So I was young.
I was we had gottenwe had moved to Florida when I was three
and I was four and a halfwhen actually my dad ended up.
I see him I started to see the downfall.
And then essentially fivewhen it was pretty much done.
(16:24):
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Are these some of your earliest memories?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Because it went from a very happy,
loving living in Florida to it memories.
And all of a sudden we're moving.
I can't keep all my toys.
We don't have enough room,that kind of thing.
And so becomes a challenging thing.
(16:46):
So, you know, one thing and, you know, andyou know, something deep down is wrong.
Something's really wrong, right?
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
It's interesting because the subconscious,at least from my understanding,
is it's supposed to besomething that helps protect you
and is there and designed to help you.
(17:06):
But for whatever reason that further upyou get in life
or in age,however you want to refer to it.
A lot of times it's the very thingthat ends up holding you back.
Even though it's intended to protect you,it actually keeps you from achieving
that end goal. Is that is that.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah. Let's restate itjust a little bit differently.
(17:27):
But you've got it.
Yes. This is exactly how it happened.
Okay. So first of all, again,
traumatic events, traumatic experiences.
And they don't have to be highly emotional
to be considered traumatic.
Anything that you haveor anything that we experience
as something negative or
(17:50):
intense or highly memorable
registers as trauma.
Okay.
And you're right.
Our subconscious brain formsa behavioral pattern
because of that trauma to protect us.
First of all, to be ableto just move on from it.
(18:13):
Right.
Because if we didn't do that,we would be stuck in a catatonic state,
you know,sucking our thumb in the corner forever.
That'd be it. Right.
So enables us to move on.
But it also sort of catalogsit, like cements it in our brain.
Right. That memory is always there.
And then what you'rewhat you explained is absolutely
(18:37):
on target.
So what happens is it serves us well.
It serves us well.
It servesas well as we go throughout our life
until we get toa certain level of evolution.
And then it tips over
and then it gets in our way.
Right.
And that'sthat's at the time to change it.
Not before.
Yep. You can choose to change it before,
(19:01):
you know, like like all of your listeners,you know, they're listening in
to get tools and strategiesfor the day that they're going to need it.
Right.
They can choose to be proactiveand make those changes now.
Right. So that it won't tip over for them.
That's probably the best strategy.
Or you can just put it in your hip pocketand wait until that day comes
(19:24):
and then be under a lot of pressure,perhaps to change it.
But also you'll probably look backand realize
the other things that it kept youfrom maybe opportunity cost.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So might as well if youif you can get in touch with it.
Now if you can fathom what it isnow, change it now.
(19:45):
You're going to have much better outcomesand exponential results going forward.
Well, it's interesting that you saychange it now, because one thing
I notice to myselfand and others is that, one, my personal
my personal opinionis that it only takes a moment
to make a decisionthat can change your life forever.
Yeah, but for a lot of the things we knowwe should be doing or need to be doing,
(20:06):
whether it New Year's resolution, we'rerecording this in January of 2025.
But it's as timeless as any year in time,which is that
we all have these intentions
or stated intentions,and then eventually they fall off.
But then at some point it clicks of, okay,this is actually what I'm going to do.
And you stick with it.
(20:27):
So what makes that differenceor that shift between somebody saying
they want to do something and actuallybeing willing to commit to it?
My personal my personal thing is
I think there's some aspectof how uncomfortable are you?
How much do you dislike that thingyou're willing to change?
Because if you're you eventually fallunder the old pattern, then I think
(20:49):
and again, this is not based onany kind of particular science.
I haven't studied this,
but just my general thought on itis, look, there's some level
of aspect of comfort with that thing,that you're still comfortable with it
and you're more comfortable with itand then uncomfortable with it.
So if you're uncomfortable with itfor two or three days out of the week or
two or 3 hours out of the day,but the rest of the time
(21:10):
you're fine with it, thenyou've got more comfort than discomfort.
Is that is that the thing
or is it is it something elseor is it a combination of things?
What you're talking about,what you're referring to is level
of desire, level of willingness to change.
That has to be higher than continuing
(21:31):
to experience whatever that thing is,whatever that pattern is.
Right.
So let me show you this.
This is really cooland this is exactly why we created it.
So as an ascending leader myself,
I was always looking for, you know, that
multiplier that was going to
(21:55):
enable me to change
much more quickly and easier, right?
Instead of that white knuckleforcing it every step of the way.
That that is involved in a habit change.
I wanted it to be muchmore straightforward, easier and faster.
So what I've got on the screen rightnow is our proprietary portal.
(22:17):
It's called the Badass Leadership Portal.
And every client,this is also a mobile app by the way.
And every client has their ownprivate log in.
And I'm going to show the secret saucejust to your listeners through my
my log in.
So functionality on the left hand side
(22:39):
and pay specific attentionto this thing called metrics.
So for every goal that we're working on,
we will come upwith a metric of measurement, right?
Because you only get what you measure,right?
We can even we can measure trulyanything in this even soft stuff, right?
So the cool part about that is we created
(23:01):
this using neuroscienceas the basis of it.
So understanding how our brain creates
repeatand ultimately changes behavioral patterns
to support you in making that as easyand straightforward as it can be.
This is how it's done.
(23:21):
First of all, you have to have higherlevel awareness, heightened
awareness of the thingthat you are committed to changing.
We do that by
setting up a metric of measurementfor the thing that we want to change,
and then we check in on itevery single day at the same time.
Now, what the cool part about this systemis, it will actually send you a prompt.
(23:43):
Hey, how's this coming along?
So that you then
plot a data pointthat reflects how you're doing with it?
Then you can see over just,
you know, two or three or four daysyour trend.
Oh, I'm making good progress.
Your brain sees this.
You're unconsciousand subconscious levels of your brain sees
(24:06):
this and goes, Oh, great,I want more of that.
And then it will continueto make the changes to bring that about.
So it's like you're leveragingyour own brain.
It's so wondrous.
Truly.
Yeah, it is great when you're when you're
when your brain and your lifeare working together to help support
(24:28):
you and your aspects and your goals.
So what do you tell your clientswhen it's like, for example,
I think a lot of executives,global leaders struggle with
the healthy lifestyle.
Mm hmm.
Especially in the United States, it's it'smuch easier to just get junk food
than it is to get healthy real food.
(24:49):
So from a perspective of
there's very few friends or colleagueswho say, like, you know,
oh, yeah, I really messed up on my dietat the beginning of the day.
It's always like, ah, almost alwaysat the end of the day, long day.
It's been wrong.
It's when your willpower is the weakest.
Mm hmm.
Or at the end of a week,you're out with friends.
(25:10):
So what do you tell yourclients about how to stay?
How to stay
on the path during those moments,those weakest moments?
And are there any neurosciencebased approaches
that one can use to to stay on the pathand those weak points?
Because the strong points, they feel likethey take care of themselves.
Many times you motivated your motivatedand things are going smoothly,
(25:32):
but it's when you're not motivated
or you're feeling a little bit downthat it becomes a lot more challenging.
Mm hmm. Yeah.
So first things first, we've got to knowwhat behavioral pattern is at play there.
So, for instance,
I specifically workedwith an executive on this.
We've worked with a lot of executiveson this, to tell you the truth.
(25:52):
And one particular one stands outin my mind, because this guy's a golfer
and he's still relatively young.
I mean, I'm 56, but he's 40 ish something
mid-forties,you know, full family, very successful.
Yeah. Great. Great guy. Great leader.
Anyway, I
(26:13):
just kept carryingaround these extra pounds.
Couldn't seem to take it offno matter what program he tried.
And so we start working on it.
We had been working on this leadershipfor a while by that point.
And he said, well, can we canwe work on this?
Sure.
So drilling down just like I did with youa moment ago, we found that
(26:34):
the behavioral patternthat was driving that bus
that would cause him to overeat
or to want to reach forand then overeat junk food
was from when he was a kid
and he would come home from school,from football practice.
And his mom was a prodigious baker.
(26:57):
And so she would have a spread
of cookies and baked goods
that could rivalany great bakery, all for him.
And she would just love on himand welcome him, you know?
How was your day at school?How did you do football?
Oh, you must be hungry, you know.
And that was her way of showing love.
(27:18):
Well, that for him,
conjured up safety and security
and happiness, even
frivolity is the word that that covered itfor him.
Right.
And so he found that when he would reachfor those kinds of things
and he would literally feel this cravingor he would feel that
(27:41):
that pang of hunger or whathe thought was hunger, truly fake hunger.
It's emotionally driven hunger.
Right.
It's because he was in situationswhere maybe he didn't feel so confident,
Maybe he didn't feel so, so safeor like it was not fun
to do whatever he was having to do.
Yeah.
Once we, you know, revealed that
(28:02):
it was this huge aha.
We created a metric for himand it's like the pounds just melted off
and he was able to see it in the moment,connect it with that and go, Oh, okay.
Now this is another secretof being able to change or transform
your behavioral pattern into somethingthat is going to serve you better
(28:26):
once you know it
and you're in that moment,you've got to interrupt it
and then go, This is not that meaning
this situation is not the sameas that situation
that originatedor created that behavioral pattern.
And if you can visualize the two,
(28:47):
the two different situations even better,because then your brain will pick it up
even faster and go,Oh, okay, we're making a change.
We don't do that anymore.
Now we do this. Right.
So then whatever the new pattern is,we simply engage
that oneright after we say this is not that.
(29:07):
Basically, by saying this is notthat we're severing
that old behavioral pattern andthen we connect it up with the new one.
Say it's,
you know, I'm I'm healthy,
I'm confident,I'm happy, and I eat cleanly.
Something like that.
Maybe even more simple than that.
(29:28):
But then we we'vewe embed that in our brain and it works.
And indeed, you have in changethe behavior with instead of
eating a candy bar,have an apple or anything like that.
Because after that,you have to trade out the behavior to not
eating like you have to.
If that that a lot of peoplemake a mistake
(29:48):
of not trading out the behavior thatthey're going to exchange the bad behavior
with with the good one.
Do you agree with thator disagree with that? Yes, absolutely.
But ultimately,you want the whole behavior to change.
You want that old
and antithetical behavior to stop.
Right.
You want to stop the craving, the drive,
(30:10):
you know, for cookies and and baked goods.
Right.
Or whateverit is you're eating that you shouldn't be.
And so
that workedrather than working on the strategies.
Well, here'swhat you can substitute for that.
Just think in your mindabout eating less of that one thing.
Yeah, you can reach for the candy barif that's what you have to have,
(30:34):
but just eat two bites of it.
Yes, that's a strategy,but that's a conscious level strategy.
It's not really addressing and changingwhat's driving it.
Yes, that makes sense.
Yeah.
So it's like going to the doctor
and they treat symptomsrather than the root cause.
(30:55):
Right. Which happens far too often.
Yeah. Yeah.
So shifting gears a little bitfrom from talking about baked goods
and candy bars to let's talk aboutcompeting in an Ironman,
pretty much the the almost opposite,the antithesis of this.
So tell us a little bitabout competing in an Ironman.
(31:15):
What kind of mindset that takes?
And maybe just explain a little bitabout what the Ironman competition is,
because you and I know what it is,but a lot of people don't maybe
realize how grueling it isand all of the events required.
And it's one contiguous
race andso there's really no time for rest.
(31:36):
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Okay.
So the Ironman is a long distancetriathlon
that's comprised of a 2.4 mile swim,
a 112 mile bike ride,
and then finish off with a 26.2 milemarathon.
You have 17 hours to complete all of itcontinuously in that order,
(31:58):
and you get to pay for the
pleasure of doing that kind of race.
And my specific dream and goalwas to compete
in the Ironman World Championships.
So this is the best of the best.
This is the 2000 best, usually largely
(32:19):
pro athletes from across the globe
that qualify for this race in use to be inKona, Hawaii.
Now, they alternatein different locations, but
also the conditions in Hawaiifor this race are brutal.
Extreme crosswinds, extreme heat.
(32:41):
It usually always has torrential rainson part of the course.
It did the day I was there.
You also get to swim in a bay
in the ocean for your 2.4 mile swimwith 2000 of your closest competitor.
Friends all kicking you in the faceand the head and everywhere.
Yeah, that's kind of fun.
(33:02):
And also, you're in the ocean,so there's jellyfish, there's sharks,
there's all sorts of wonderful creaturesin there helping you along.
So, yeah.
And it, it,it is regarded in a lot of circles
as the toughest race on the planet.
So what made you want to compete in that?
And how, if at all,
(33:25):
has the approaches Ironman competitions
and the World Championshipaffected your leadership coaching?
Hmm. So here's how it went.
I was 14 years old,
flipping through the TV channelsone day and I stopped
at the coverage of the Ironman WorldChampionships in Hawaii.
(33:45):
Now, I was 14.
I had no idea what a triathlon wasor what an Ironman was.
I had never heard of it before,but I was immediately struck
by the drama that I saw unfoldingin this particular race.
There were two women who were leading therace, Julie Moss and Kathleen McCartney.
(34:06):
Both were collegiate athletes,
very well renowned and Julie
led the racethe whole day, except she didn't fuel well
and she started to collapse on the course.
She also lost control of her bowels.
(34:26):
Yeah.
And yet she would not give up.
She never stopped.
So I watched this race goingon, can't figure out what the heck it is,
but I also can't turn myself awayfrom watching it.
It's like watching a train wreckand you just can't look away.
I sat down on the couch watching it,
(34:46):
and all of a sudden I started to cry
and I didn't understand at the timewhy I later figured it out.
And it was becauseas I was watching this immense thing
which I had these feelings
deep inside that, Hey,what if I have what it takes to do that
(35:08):
inside of me and I'm not tapping into it.
I'm leading this small safe life
and I'm not tapping all of my potential.
So I watched the rest of the race.
Kathleen At the very end,when it's dark outside,
(35:29):
they've been racing thewhole day. It's dark outside.
Julie is crawling toward the finish line.
Kathleen overtakes her for the win.
Julie didn't give up.
She still crossed the finishline, crawling.
Mind you. But she still finished.
This really stuck with me,
(35:50):
mostly because I interpreted it as
a way to see what I was made of.
A way to expand myself
and really push that really
expand my comfort zone a long way.
(36:11):
Because whenever I thought about,Oh, could I do that?
How would I do that?
I would break out in a cold sweatand feel like I was going to vomit.
That's when I knew that
that was the exact thing that I had to do.
I had to prove to myselfthat I could do it.
(36:31):
And then it became a metaphorfor my leadership.
It paralleled my leadership, growthand development
and journey into what we do now,
making the biggest differencewe can on the planet with leaders.
Because they have the biggestripple effect with everyone.
Yeah.
So then I used I incorporated my knowledge
(36:54):
and then expertise of neuroscience also
forever.
For my entire life,I've been a student of human beings.
Like, I'm just always fascinatedand I have an insatiable appetite
to understand human behaviorand how to take it further,
how to take performanceand effectiveness further.
So I parlayed I combined all of that
(37:18):
in my journeyto the Ironman World Championships
and then beyond,because after that I wrote the book
because I want to eradicatelimiting beliefs
which we all strugglewith, and limiting beliefs are nothing,
nothing more than a behavioral patternand a blind spot.
So my limiting beliefswith regard to the Ironman were, well,
(37:40):
if I think about, you know,competing in the race, I'm just down here.
I'm a lowly recreational athlete.
And compared to the elite level
athletes from around the world
who are invited to do this race,how am I ever going to get there?
There's no way.
That's the definition of a limitingbelief.
(38:02):
And we take that
because it feels in our brain like it'sfact.
It's not.
It's just a four letter wordthat begins with F.
No, it's actually false.
There's a different four letter wordthat it begins with begins with F, But
that's how I started to learn
how I could transform behavioral patterns,because I started
(38:23):
with all the limiting beliefsthat sit in my way
of that dream of the Ironman.
And I love that story. Excellent.
Mm hmm. Yeah.
So ultimately, it wasit was figuring out and finding the key
to myselfto unlock my performance and potential.
And that's what as leaders,you know, owners, solopreneur
(38:45):
entrepreneurs, business leaders,that's what we're all trying to do.
Right.
And how important is physicality,if at all, of the leadership,
physicality,physicality, meaning being being willing
to push yourself physically and endurecertain kinds of physical challenges,
whether it's running exercise,marathons, Ironman competitions,
(39:06):
etc., I don't think physicalityis that important.
I think mental toughness, mental stamina
and the willingness to figure out
your own, your own stuff,
that is really the key.
Because one of the first big ideasI had in the first year
(39:29):
of training for Ironman and keep in mind
at the time I was a brand new CEO,I was working,
gosh,until sometimes six, seven, 8:00 at night.
And I was also training about 25 hours
a week just for Ironman.
Yeah.
So I had it all going on
(39:52):
and a big Aha.
Right then was, Hey, wait a minute,
this is only 10% physical
and 90%mental versus when I started training,
I was sure that it was 90% physical.
Could I physically do this?
(40:12):
Could my body do it rightand only 10% mental?
It's exactly the opposite.
And that is what is true in leadershipas well.
Interesting.
And you think that's regardless ofof that, someone's physicality, meaning,
you know, if
you are an amazing athlete already
(40:34):
and you have certaingenetic dispositions or
you're just very good at athletics fromeven when you were younger versus somebody
who may not have that general disposition,you still think those percentages hold?
No, because that's a different thing.
But when we're talking about leaders,here's the truth
Badass leaders are built.
(40:57):
They are not born yet.
And I know, you know, there'sbeen a lot of discussion about this.
Are leaders born or are they built?
No Leaders are built.
Nobody comes out of the wombbeing an exceptional, badass leader.
No, These are all things that wehave to learn, right?
And to
(41:19):
build upon.
Right.
Whereas the scenariothat you just talked about
is, you know, a naturally gifted,
you know, athlete that is different
because none of us are naturally giftedin the area of leadership.
Now, I've come across some great leaders,but for them to go from great to elite
(41:42):
also takes development and work
right? Yes.You know, and I agree with that.
I mean, my thought on this is leadersand people have different pieces
that they're born with.
So each leader I mean, there'sthere's a general set of traits
that all great leaders I think will have,including mental stamina.
(42:03):
There's a
there's a level of physical staminathat is required, strategic
thinking, compassion, understanding
people, emotional intelligence,those kinds of things.
And people just are born with moreof certain pieces than other pieces.
And it's kind of finding the pieces that,
you know, each one of us is missingas the leader, identifying them
(42:24):
and figuring out how to build that pieceto make yourself a better leader.
Yeah, agree.
You know? Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
That's how you truly become badass,
You know, when you're firingon all cylinders in leadership.
That bad ass.
Well, what's the most common blind spot?
Or missing piece?
(42:45):
Using the analogy you've been using thatyou find the leaders are.
Well, the most common, really high
level is self-awareness, right?
Those leaders that
they are not, they're unaware of things.
A feedback that people would give them.
(43:07):
Right.
Oh, you micromanage.
You know,you are like a bull in a china shop.
You know,you tend to think that, you know,
your idea or your way is the best wayor the only way.
Right.
So you don't you don't open it upand solicit ideas from everybody
on the team to make,you know, the best decision possible.
(43:28):
Those all those kinds of things allhave to do with a lack of self-awareness.
Right.
And your self-awareness is really okay.
How am I contributing to the situationsthat I'm experiencing?
Right.
Because every single one of us contributesto the situations that we experience
every day.
(43:49):
Self-awareness comes when we become aware
of what those contributions are,and we can see them.
We can pick up on them.
So from there, from
self-awareness,it falls down to things like
imposter syndrome
or, just at a at a lower level,
(44:11):
you know, lack of
confidence in your role.
And that leads to being ableto find your authentic voice
and to be authentic in general.
You know, there's a large discussion
that's been going onfor probably the last five years on
(44:34):
am I supposed to be or is it best for me
to be totally authentic in my leadership?
And all of authenticitymeans in this context
is that you share your whole self
with everyoneand you share the same with everyone
that you come in contact with as a leader.
Because old school leadership
(44:58):
beliefs were that no, you know,
you put on a very professional exterior
and you're that way with everybodyunless it's people that, you know,
maybe you formed friendshipsor professional relationships with, then,
you know,you might let them in a little bit more.
They might knowmore of you than other people do.
And what we found through scientificresearch over the last five years is that,
(45:22):
no, that's actually not the best way
when everyone that you're leading
feels like they actuallyknow the authentic you,
then you can be your
most effective, warts and all.
Now, this does not give anyone licenseto be an asshole because you can't just
(45:42):
say, Well, I'm being authenticand I'm I'm generally an asshole.
No, that's not what we're talking about.
You still would need to findan appropriate,
authentic, professional voice,
but one that is also personal,
that you let people into who you are as a person, right?
(46:04):
What you believe, what you like,what you don't like, what you find funny.
Right.
Also conflict avoidance.
Sorry. I'll finish with this one.
Conflictavoidance is a huge one, very pervasive.
And now that we're seeing five generationsin the workforce, every generation deals
with conflict a little bit differently,some better than others.
(46:27):
Some lean in because they realizeit's a way to work things out
productively and to really get tothe other side of something.
And thenmost people now they shy away from it.
Oh, I don't like conflict.
It's really uncomfortable.
I don't want to feel like I'mwith somebody else.
I don'tI don't know how that's going to look
(46:49):
and feelthat doesn't feel good or safe to me.
So I'm just going to pull back and I'mgoing to avoid conflict at all costs.
But the problem is conflictor unproductive conflict,
I should say, costs companies 635
billion annually
is staggering.
(47:09):
I've never heard that statistic.
Yeah, mind boggling.
Yeah, that's incredibly insightful though.
Karen, If people want to find outa little bit more about you
and your leadership coaching,how can they find you
email me at Karen.
That's r e n sorry.
(47:31):
Yeah. Karen,
I was wondering if there was a Scott Brownafter my name on this one or not.
No, there's notKaren at Bad Ass Ink Dot Pro
that will take you right to meand me only.
Also, I'm on LinkedIn.
Karen Brown Exponential results
(47:52):
and you can get in touch there and smile.
DM We can get in touch that way.
And also we are just
launching something called the Bad AssLeadership Calculator
that we talked about itat the top of the show briefly.
This is really cool.
We're using AI and our expertise
(48:12):
in neuroscience to very quickly,just through a few questions
like we do in coaching to identifyand reveal your behavioral pattern.
So those those that are effectiveto your leadership
and also your leadership blindspots.
So those blind spots that by developingthem, you will be a total badass leader.
(48:34):
That's what it'll show you.
Awesome.
Well, Karen,
thank you so much for your incredibleinsights today and for joining me today.
Thank you.
Such fun being on your show.
And thank you very muchand to the listeners.
Thank you All so much for joining.
I hope you got some incredible insightsthat you can apply
(48:57):
to your own leadership,your own business, into your own life.
Again, Karen,thank you so much for joining us today.
Appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.