Am I Sexy?

Heather and Zoe talk nerves before their first live show, test out new non-alcoholic drinks, and review the Sunflower sobriety app (yes, with an AI sponsor 👀). Zoe shares stories from her London trip—including getting called out for ordering tea at a pub—and together they unpack the Lil Nas X arrest and what it says about addiction, fame, and mental health.

Thank you to Collective Arts for being a part of this week's episode! You can watch this episode, with timestamps and extras here. 

Grab your NA bevvie and hit subscribe. Episodes every Wednesday. Proud of you! 💕

Episode Transcript

Heather (00:00):
This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be
difficult for some listeners.
Please take care while listening.

(00:26):
Hi guys.
Hi guys.
Welcome back.
Welcome back.
Welcome back to Girl and Drunk.
I'm Heather.
And I'm Zoe.
And we, that was a hot start.
How are you doing?
How's your mental health?
I feel like I haven't seenyou in a hundred years.
My mental health is good.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like

Zoe (00:43):
everything's just like working out, you know?
Mm-hmm.
I feel so happy that I went on my trip.
Yes.
Do you feel inspired?
I do feel inspired.
I feel like just.
I'm not getting toostressed out about tomorrow.
Yeah.
Everyone's like, are you scared?
Are you nervous?
And I'm like, I don't

Heather (01:01):
think I am.
I know.
I don't know if I am either.
We have an a live event tomorrowat zero bar, so this will come
af come out after it's Yeah.
Over.
But I, I think that a, I'mavoiding it a little bit.
Yeah.
Because I think so too.
Because,

Zoe (01:14):
well, we can't really hit it head on because we don't
really know how it's gonna go.
No, we have not.
So the unknown is kindof like nice in this way.
Yeah.
Because we don't know what wewould be scared about anyways.

Heather (01:25):
Yeah.
I guess it's like the, the likeconversation and the, like, not getting
choked up with like people around,but I think at the end of the day,
whatever's gonna happen is gonna happenand then we're gonna I think so too.
And

Zoe (01:38):
like it's our first one, so there's room for us to make mistakes.

Heather (01:42):
Yeah.

Zoe (01:43):
And like, I'm just gonna be looking at you the whole time

Heather (01:46):
and if Yeah.
And I'm, I'm gonna be looking atyou pretending that you're naked.
Perfect.
You know?
Amazing.

Zoe (01:52):
I might be wearing a see-through shirt, so like my nipples could be out.

Heather (01:57):
Oh,

Zoe (01:58):
what shirt?

Heather (01:59):
You haven't seen it before?
Oh, a new shirt.
A new shirt.
Should I get a new shirt?
I have no idea what I'm gonna wear.
I haven't even like considerthis considered that.
Well, this outfit that I'mconsidering in my head is

Zoe (02:10):
a little bit sexy.

Heather (02:11):
Oh, a sexy, okay, so then I can't go librarian.
I have to go sexy.

Zoe (02:15):
Well, I don't know, is sexy the vibe?
I think sexy is your vibe.
Am I sexy?
Maybe I'll wear this outfit thatI'm thinking tonight instead of
tomorrow, because we're going todinner tonight with, am I sexy?
Yes, you're

Heather (02:30):
sexy.

Zoe (02:32):
So sorry.
Didn't answer that.
Do you think I'm

Heather (02:33):
okay?
Remember in the movie, he is justnot that into you and it's Scarlet
Hanson, and then that, that smallgentleman, and she's like, what am I?
It's like, he's like, you'resexy and cute, and she's
like, no, you can't be Both.
Both things that are like, look,it's like sexy, cute, smart, funny.
What am I?
What are you?
You're beautiful.

Zoe (02:54):
Honestly, you're stunning.
She went outside the bounds

Heather (02:57):
so much.
You're beautiful, smart, funny.
Okay.
No, I can only be two things.
Oh.
Oh, that's it.
You're beautiful and funny.
Thank you.
Okay.
I like that a lot.
Drop smart.
Yeah.
That's okay.
That's okay.
That's okay.
I didn't even notice.
Didn't even notice.
What am I You're, ah, this is hard.
Okay.
I'm kind of nervous.
I kind of feel like you're, ifyou, if I had to pick two, I feel

(03:20):
like maybe you're sexy and funny.
Really a sexy, I think so.
I always, always got like cute.
I think you, I think we've moved, moved.
I think we, I'm rubbing off on you.
I'm so sorry.
I think we've moved past.
Cute.
Yeah.
But you are cute.
Yeah.
But I think that your mainones would be sexy and funny.
Interesting.

(03:40):
But not sexy as in like, she'slike hiding behind, you know, dark
walls and just, I don't, that'snot sexy either, but like sexy.
Like your life is sexy.
Yeah.
And the way you conduct yourself issexy and confident and I like it.
And I want some of that.

Zoe (03:54):
I definitely do.
Like everyone does tell me Ilook so confident when they just
like, see me on the street guys.
Or when I'm like walking into a room,

Heather (04:01):
the Wait when I dropped you off, I remember I dropped you off
at, um, not gonna say where we live.
I dropped you off over there.
Yeah.
And I, you, you got it in my car andacted as if you had been walking forever.
Like you were just likewalking and I was like, no.
Walk with the purpose.
Yeah.
And I was like, no one's gonna fuck with

Zoe (04:17):
her.
Yeah.
And

Heather (04:18):
also

Zoe (04:18):
she looked so cool.
I wonder when that transitiondid happen or if I, I must have
not always looked that confident.
I can't have been.

Heather (04:27):
But do you feel like you're a confident person?
Yes.
You do?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like I have glimpses of it.
Like I feel it every now andthen, but most of the time I'm
like, I feel like most of the

Zoe (04:38):
time I'm confident.
And then I have glimpses of like,fuck, what am I doing with my life

Heather (04:43):
of weak?
Weakness.
Weakness.
Exactly.
Weakness.
And I feel like I'm always on newroller blades or I'm, you know what?
I feel like, I feel like I'mon skates with skate guards on.

Zoe (04:50):
Mm.

Heather (04:50):
That's for you.
Do you feel like that's more

Zoe (04:52):
confident now though than like last year?

Heather (04:56):
Yes.
I think I, it's hard because thething that I'm working on, the
thing that I love this thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, it's so big and there's like somany insecurities I have around it
and like who I am in this space.
Hmm.
So like doing the thing that I love,but being insecure about the thing is
like, is hard, but in terms of me, yeah.

(05:19):
Yes, I do feel more confident.
Yeah, I do.
I do feel like there's a sense,every day I feel a little more
like I'm allowed to be here.
Mm-hmm.
Just like with my friends or likein life or at the grocery store.
I'm just like, I can here.
I mean, you're hereconducting your life, babe.
Like this is

Zoe (05:33):
all from you.

Heather (05:35):
Yeah.
I think it was like Tarick Hall I waslistening to and he was like, you just
have to go out and get your own life.
Yeah.
Like, no one's gonna give you it.
Yeah, no.
And I'm like, oh, you're right.
Okay.
Yeah.
But yeah, no, I definitelydo feel more confident.
Confident is a very hard thing for me.
I think I have a lot of false confidenceand that comes out every now and then.
Mm-hmm.
But I would like to holdonto it a little more.

(05:56):
Yeah.
It's not fun walking aroundthe world being like, hello,
am I allowed to be here?
Yeah.
It's like, just go.
You know?

Zoe (06:02):
I mean, in some scenarios like.
I do get scared to like talkto people when I'm out and
about, you know, new people.
Yeah.
New people is scary for me still, butlike when I have like one conversation
with someone that I'm like, okay, got I

Heather (06:16):
got

Music (06:16):
it.

Zoe (06:16):
Yeah.
You

Heather (06:16):
know,

Zoe (06:17):
it's the anticipation,

Heather (06:18):
especially being sober.
Yeah.
Because it's like, I know before itwas like, oh, I'm gonna, we're gonna
go to zero bar tonight or tomorrowand we're gonna like meet new people.
I'm like, okay, it's gonna be crazy,but I'll have a, a cocktail first.
We'll, pre-game.
Yeah.
We're not doing that.
So I'm like, well I'm gonnahave a Red Bull probably.
Yeah.
Well 100%.

Zoe (06:33):
Yeah.
But this is interesting because when Iwent out with Alexia in London mm-hmm.
Um, we went to like this bar club thingand after she was like, that was so nice
to go out with you, because when I'mgoing out with my friends who drink, they.
Have to like, have one drink to like havea little bit of courage to like mm-hmm.

(06:54):
Go up and meet people or liketalk to new people at the bar.
But when you're sober,there's none of that.
Yeah.
It's like you always have tobe at your baseline is always
just like, Hey, I'm gonna do it

Heather (07:05):
vulnerable.
Yeah.

Zoe (07:06):
Yeah.
And it's, when she mentionedthat, I was like, oh, I've never
thought about it like that.
Like as sober people, wealways have to be ready.
Yeah.
We can't be like, oh, I need to havea drink of this before I do this.

Heather (07:19):
No.
There's like nothing that'sgonna give us a push.
Yeah.
Like we really just have to sit with ouractions, consequences, and like feelings.
Yeah.
And she

Zoe (07:26):
said like when she goes out with her friends and they're
not drinking that night mm-hmm.
Then they're like, oh, I can't go up tothis guy 'cause I'm not drinking tonight.
Right.
But always we have to be ready, likewe're always down to just go and.
Approach these people or like talkto a new person without shutting
them down or, I don't know.

Heather (07:45):
And I guess it's like if you have a drink, I'll feel more confident
or I'll feel just less inhibited togo up to that guy and talk to him.
Yeah.
But how is he gonna feel?
Does he like it better ifI'm a little bit drunk?
Or does he like it better?
If I'm sober, how's theconversation gonna go?
Yeah.
At the end of the day, if you want it,you're gonna want it sober or drunk?
Drunk.
So go

Zoe (08:04):
get it.
Try feel like all guys justwant us to be drunk anyways, so
they can take advantage of us.
As we have said, you guys are the worst.
Are the worst.
Um, can we open this?
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yay.
I'm excited for this one.
We're drinking something newtoday from Collective Arts.
Mm-hmm.
This is the cutest thingI've ever seen, by the way.
It's so cute.
And blueberry, mango, acai, adaptogen,elixir with four essential vitamins.

(08:31):
Wow.
This is what I need to be drinking.
I don't need to be drinkinga Coca-Cola or a ginger.
I need to be drinking my vitamins.
I know.
So, uh, I know it's made with coconutwater, prebiotics, lion's mane, and
I have no idea how to say this word.
Should I try?
Yeah.
I'm scared.
You got it.
Sh Sandra, where are you reading that?

(08:53):
I think mine's different than yours.

Heather (08:54):
Sh Sandra, sh Sandra.
Oh, I don't have that on mine.
Okay.
What are you drinking?
Okay.
Mine is a zero sugar cucumber, lemongrass,lime fruit, and infuses sparkling water.
Ooh.
Antioxidants.
Electrolytes.
Electrolytes.
You have electrolytes?
I don't have electrolytes.
I'll spit it into your mouth.
Okay.
Perfect.
Zero sweeteners, no preservatives.

(09:15):
Four essential vitamins and mini woes.
I guess all of them probablyhave the four essential vitamins.
They better.
I'm really excited for this one.
Okay, here we go.
Thank you.
Collective Arts.
Ooh.
Oh, I smell, it smells like the spa.
Oh, it smells so fresh.
Ooh, the color is like, I wasn'tsure what color mine was gonna be.

(09:36):
Sure.

Zoe (09:36):
Clear.
No ice cubes today.
Oh, and she spilled, oh boy.
Oh, and she spilled.
Oh, she

Heather (09:43):
spilled.
Oh no.
Oh, Jesus.
Or just twisted her in here.
I'll get you a little napkin, everybody.
Hold on.

Music (09:48):
Okay.

Heather (09:55):
Cheers.
Cheers.
I dunno why I cheers.
You like that?
I did it last time too.
Cheers.
I keep going.
Okay.
Mm. Oh my God.
I love it.
Okay.
Okay.

Zoe (10:08):
Okay.
Okay.
Mm Oh.
Oh.
Which one do you like better?
I think I like this one.
This feels more like a tea.
This feels more like a sparkling water.
Yeah.
This feels more of like a drink.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, there it's kind

Heather (10:29):
of

Zoe (10:29):
like

Heather (10:30):
mouth feely.
I love it.
I think I like the taste of cucumbermore than I like the smell of cucumber.
I find it a bit overwhelming.
I just like it.
'cause I like to be

Zoe (10:39):
drinking like healthy

Heather (10:40):
things now.
Yeah, I know.
I know, I know.
I've been looking at

Zoe (10:44):
like how much sugar is in some of these drinks

Heather (10:46):
and I'm like, holy shit.
I know.
It's like, is there any liquid in this?
This is just sugar.
Just sugar.
But I, uh, no.
You know what, like I'm getting tothe point now where I'm like, okay.
Like I used to be like, listen,I can drink in ginger ale every
single day because I used to drinkfour, three to four bottles of wine.
Yeah.
So my sugar intake is way less, but nowit's almost, it's two and a half years.
Yeah.
I gotta chill out with the sugar.

Zoe (11:07):
I think so too.
I think the first year I waslike, okay, like I am allowed to
drink all these drinks, whatever.
I wasn't looking at it.
Mm-hmm.
But now I'm like, I amso solid in my sobriety.
Yeah.
Why am I drinking so much?
Sugar.

Heather (11:19):
Yeah.
At this point I'm like,well, we've done this.
I've lost the weight I wanted to lose.
Mm-hmm.
Now I'm just like doingPilates, but drinking sugar.
So yeah.
Maybe I'll chill out.
Yeah.
I'm just like on my healthand wellness shit right now.
I am.
It's 'cause it's September.
It is September.
September Feels Health and WellnessDay more so than the summer.
Yeah.
Well, summer's a free for all.

(11:40):
That's true.
Summer is a free for all.
We've been drunk the whole time.
Just kidding.
Um, imagine we've beendrinking this whole time.
I had a dream recently aboutthat, that I was drinking.
Yeah.
And Ian, Ian, friend of the podhad to come over and I cried to
him and he held me like a baby.
That was my dream about Ianbecause he comes over and
saves me from things that Yeah.

(12:01):
He killed a spider inyour house the other day.
Spider.
Well, yeah, it was, what was it?
A gr

Zoe (12:06):
not a grasshopper.
It a big

Heather (12:07):
ass motherfucking devil.
And my knee is still,it's still stiff, my knee.
Oh

Zoe (12:12):
no.

Heather (12:12):
I know.
The psychiatrist asked me at thepark, he said, how's your knee?
And I said, is it, I do.
I hear it cracking.
Always,
always, oh shit, everything cracks.
Um, okay.
How is your mental health zza bear?
My

Zoe (12:27):
mental health is good.
I feel a little bit avoidant though.
Okay.
Like, I feel like I'm just likegoing, I'm not really reflecting.
I kind of feel like that too.
Yeah.
Sorry.
This is your

Heather (12:38):
time.

Zoe (12:38):
I'll show it.
We'll get to you.
Yep.
Sorry.
This is all me.
Um, so yeah, I did, I, I didn'twanna go to my meeting last week.

Heather (12:48):
Okay.

Zoe (12:49):
And I was like, oh, I don't need to go.
I have to pack for London anyways.
Mm-hmm.
Whatever.
I won't go.
And then this week I waslike, oh, I'm so tired.
I'm jetlagged.
Like, I don't wanna go to my meeting.
Maybe I won't go.
And I was like, no, that's why I needto go because I don't feel like going.

Heather (13:06):
Yeah.

Zoe (13:07):
So I went.
They were talking about step four andlike, I need to do another step four
because I, I meant to do another stepfour and my, the whole thing with my
family happened and remind me, stepfour, it's like writing down your
resentments and stuff to let them go.

Music (13:23):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (13:23):
Um, and I had been putting that off, so I did text my sponsor
after that meeting and was like,Hey, let's meet up next week.
So we have that planned.
So I think after that I'llfeel a little bit better.

Heather (13:38):
I have a question.
Yeah.
You go through all your steps.
Yeah.
That's what you do.
Yeah.
And then what happens?
You've done all your steps.
Yeah.
And then something happens andyou have a resentment come up.
Yeah.
Like a new resentment,what you supposed to do.
Yeah.

Zoe (13:52):
I So.
You should be doing a dailyinventory every night.
Okay.
I don't.
Okay.
Okay.
I don't do that.
Right.
If I'm feeling like I need to,

Heather (14:01):
I will, but I don't.
Um, well it's really pretty obviousif there is a resentment, right?
Yeah.
Because you're not going throughall of your days having resentment.
So if one comes up, you're like, oh yeah.
So I

Zoe (14:12):
should be dealing with that like head on right away.
But I've been kind of putting thatoff and maybe that's like why I
am been a little bit avoidant.
I don't know.
Which resentment is it?
Oh God.
Is it me?
No, but I'm sure you'llget on my list soon, Zoe.
Really?
Yeah.
Well.
No, no, no, no.
Yeah, that's what happens.
I don't want to people, the peoplethat you love the most are often

(14:34):
on your resentment list the most.
Okay.
I don't want

Heather (14:37):
to be there.
I worry so much about ourfriendship all the time.
I think about our friendship sodeeply all the time, and I'm like,
how do we be friends forever?
Well, so there is aresentment that I know about.
Yes.
That has nothing to do with me.
Nothing to do with you.
Okay.
Okay.
So that is a big one thatwe've been working on.
Yeah.
That

Zoe (14:57):
you've been dealing with.
Yeah.
So I think I made a plan with mysponsor like two months ago to do that
resentment, but then I. Didn't put inmy calendar and I had to bail on her,
and I never rescheduled it because I wasbusy and something happened in her life.
I didn't wanna bother her.
But now I'm like, okay, Ihave to fucking do this.
What does it look likewhen you do step four?
Like, what is, what are you doing?

(15:17):
We talk about it and then I writeit out and then I give it to God.

Heather (15:21):
Okay.
Do you burn it?
No.
You throw it into the wind?
No, I keep it.
Okay.
Yeah.
You put it into a uns.
It's all in my journals.
You could do, um, you could put it intosomeone's backpack as they're walking by.
Did you burn things in rehab?
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, me too.
They love a ceremony.
They

Zoe (15:38):
love it.
They love to burn stuff.
I, okay.

Heather (15:39):
I

Zoe (15:40):
loved it.
I, I think I cried afterI burned something.
I

Heather (15:42):
wanted to, yeah.
I wanted it to be better.
Yeah.
But at that time, the groupthat had gotten together, there
was too many like newbies.
Yeah.
That we weren't.
Emotionally fucking each other yet.
Right.
So like it wasn't the right time and Iknew that and I like, that's why I, I
needed to be the rehab coordinator becauseI'm like, I know when the right time
to is to burn all of our resentments,

Zoe (16:03):
but it was nice.

Heather (16:04):
I do like to burn shit.

Zoe (16:05):
Yeah.
I

Heather (16:05):
mean, we could

Zoe (16:06):
do a burning

Heather (16:06):
ceremony.
Okay.
That would be nice.
Okay.
We have, we all get, maybewe could do that at zero bar.
We all get to burn one man.
Okay.
So your

Zoe (16:15):
mentee, my mental health.
I'm gonna say, um, maybe we'lldrop it down to a five this week.
Okay.
Okay.
We're at sixes before I am likereally excited for my weekend.
Okay.
Weekend tomorrow's event.
My boyfriend is coming down.
I haven't seen him intwo weeks and five days.

(16:36):
It's almost three weeks.
My, is he coming today?
No, he's coming tomorrow.
So my mom and her friends are down forTiff and they're staying in my condo.
So I said mother between the hoursof 4:00 PM and 5:00 PM tomorrow.
No one shall be at the condo.

Heather (16:54):
You

Zoe (16:54):
get out of here, you don't wanna be there, what are you gonna do?

Heather (16:59):
I'm gonna have sex with my boyfriend.
What do you think islike the first position?
Like okay, you haven't,here's actually my question.
I haven't been in a long distance.
Relat.
Yeah.
In like years.
Mm-hmm.
Is it still like when you see each other,you wanna rip each other's clothes off?

Zoe (17:14):
Yeah.
And it's all, honestly, it's kind of like,oh my God, I haven't seen you in a while.
I'm nervous.
It's nervous.
And it's also like, I feel like we'renot comfortable until like six hours into
him coming, not because we're like, uh,

Heather (17:27):
into him coming or coming.
To seeing each other.
Okay.
To him arriving.
I understand.
Yeah.
Sorry.
I got it.
Got a little mixed up there.
It got a little horny.
So, yeah.
So it'll be fun.
And then what kind of sexare you having on arrival?
Are you usually having standing up sexover the couch in the bed right away?
What's your vibe?
So I think like this willbe our big one because,
'Zoe: cause I'll be there, my parent, my mom and her girlfriends will be

(17:50):
there for the rest of the time, so.
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (17:53):
I know we'll probably

Heather (17:55):
play with a toy if your mom, sorry mom, if your mom is at your condo.
Mm-hmm.
And your boyfriend's also at your condo.
Separate rooms, veryspread out those rooms.
Rooms, yeah.
But someone's.
Sleeping on the bed inthe living room too.
But that one is closerto the spare room, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
But are you gonna be fooling around?

Zoe (18:16):
I will still be having sex with him, with my mom and her girlfriend's there.
Okay.
It'll just be quiet, likenot as fun sex, you know?
Yeah.

Heather (18:23):
It doesn't like deter you that your mom's in the room.
No, it doesn't deter me either.
It doesn't make it like more sexy,but it definitely, I'm like, whatever.
Yeah.
But now that I say that, it's, italmost makes it a little bit more sexy.
Well, I was gonna say, 'causeyou're not supposed to.
Yeah.
I actually feel like thishas never happened to me.
It would never happen to me.
Yeah.
I will never have sex in the same roomas my, in the same house as my mother.

(18:44):
Not ever.
Not ever.
Not once.
Yeah.
Our boyfriends were not, yeah, A,they weren't allowed to sleep over.
They were not allowed tobe in our rooms at all.
Growing up.
Crazy.
Holy shit.
Not at all.
Yeah.

Zoe (18:55):
Were you.
I don't, I think I alwayswent to my boyfriend's houses
instead of bringing them over.
Yeah.
To be honest, because theyhad more chill parents.
Mm-hmm.
So that I could likedrink and do drugs there.
So why would I bring themto my strict parents house?
That's the thing.

Heather (19:09):
That's the thing.
But would your parentsallow boys in the house?
Yes.
Okay.
In your room?
Yes.
With the door closed?
I think so.
Wow.
Yeah.
That was not allowed,

Zoe (19:19):
but I just like didn't do it often because we weren't allowed to do
everything like drink and smoke weed.
Right.
And that's

Heather (19:26):
what you want.
Yeah.
You want the trifecta.
You want sex, weed and drinking.
Really?
If we can only have sex,what the fuck are we doing?
Exactly.
I could do that anywhere,anytime by myself.
How is your mental health?
Honestly, Zoe, I always feel somuch better when you're here.
Yeah.
Nice.
Like, I feel nice, Ilike doing this pod nice.
Even if I'm like, Ooh, I don't reallyknow what we're gonna talk about.
Or like, I'm not super, like,I just always feel better.

(19:48):
I think that.
I just really like being friends with you.
It's really nice.
I had a weird week, to be honest.
Like I feel like things, it'sbecause we were separated 100%.
I had a weird week.
I feel like there's a lot going on.
I'm trying to, I'm happy.
Mm-hmm.
I'm excited.
I'm a little avoidant.
Yeah.
I would say maybe I've been a little numb.

(20:08):
Mm-hmm.
I'm trying to stay neutral and happy.
So things that I'm doing rightnow, people I'm with, I'm like,
it's happy for me right now.
Things are feeling good.
It's serving me.
I'll be honest though,I've got one more in me.
I've got one fight in me, oneannoyance, one argument, one
more, and then I'm fucking out.

(20:29):
Yeah.
In whatever aspect thatmeans, not the pod.
Yeah.
We've never argued.
It's just weird.
Right now I just wanna be like this.
Mm-hmm.
And as long as I cankind of stay like that.
Yeah.
But I've got one more andthen I'm like, I'm too young.
I'm too tired.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say my mental healthis, honestly, I would say like
it's teetering four or five.
Yeah.
Just because I'm a little, like I, I gotupset the other day over something random.

(20:54):
Mm-hmm.
And it took me a littlewhile to bounce back.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, okay, yeah.
Okay.
This is like a, you're fine.
You know?

Zoe (21:02):
Yeah.
It's like when you get pissedat like the stupid shit.
Yeah.
You know, something is fucking wrong.
Right.
And that's,

Heather (21:07):
that's a time where like we're with you where you're like, um, oh, I
don't really wanna go to my meeting.
Yeah.
It's like you have to go.
Yeah.
That's like, so you know whoone of our Instagram friends?

Zoe (21:17):
Mm-hmm.

Heather (21:18):
So fun.

Zoe (21:18):
One of our followers, she texted me, our band,

Heather (21:20):
she texted us and she said, um.
That she heard this quote that was like,addiction is the disease that tricks you
into thinking you don't have a disease.
Mm, yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh my God, that's so true.
We drink.
And it's like, no, that's fine.
Yeah.
It's just one more.
It's fine.
Or it's just, or I don'tneed to go to my meeting.
Yeah.
And it's like, that is dangerous.
It's your addiction.

(21:40):
Yeah.
It's, that's not your addiction, butyour addiction is coming when it's
like, oh, she's not gonna her meeting.
Yeah.
Oh, and she's not going this week either.
Yeah.
Let's see how far we can push her.
Yeah, it's true.

Zoe (21:50):
It's a tricky situation.
I got really pissed off 'causethere was a kid kicking my
fucking seat on the airplane.
And Mary usually, like, I feel likeif I was at a better spot mentally,
that wouldn't have pissed me off somuch that it what if that it did what?
And I think like that's just like atestament to how actual mentally I am.

Heather (22:13):
What, um, Xanax out Mother Teresa could handle
kicking the back of your chair.
Who could handle that?

Zoe (22:20):
Yeah.
I

Heather (22:22):
think

Zoe (22:22):
like, but tell us what you did.
I think being okay mentally is likeokay, accepting that that mm-hmm.
Is just a fucking2-year-old baby, you know?
And just like, okay, he's gonnakick my chair a little bit.
Was he two?
Yeah, I think he was two or three.
Okay.
So he was really young.
Yeah.
He wasn't like an

Heather (22:37):
ass.

Zoe (22:37):
Yeah.
And like I was getting really justwild up and like anxious and mad and
I'm like, Hey, I can't be that mad.
This is outta my control.
He's like, baby, it's not my fault thatthis mom isn't telling him to stop.
Like, yo, chill out.
Yeah.
You know?

Heather (22:52):
Yeah.

Zoe (22:53):
And I just like wasn't like that.
So that's like kind of a testamentto how mentally for well I am.
I, the mom should have been sayinglike, a hundred percent, yo, stop
doing that a hundred percent.
But the mom wasn't.
But like, I'm sure she had a rough day.
I'm sure traveling with a baby to London.
But if you can't travel with the,just don't travel with the baby.
I know.
I think there should bechildren only flights.

(23:15):
So I turned around and I. Said tohim, I made eye contact with him.
He looked fucking adorable,which pissed me off even more.
No, you can't trust the cute ones.
That's, that's why they make them cute,so you don't kick 'em across the room.
And I said, can you pleasestop kicking my chair?
Mm-hmm.
And the mom was like, yeah, listen to her.
Like, come on.
And then I turned around and hestopped for like maybe an hour or

(23:35):
two, but then he kept it going.
So just like little things likethat are a testament to how
mentally strong I am, I think.
No,

Heather (23:43):
truly.
Yeah.

Zoe (23:44):
Truly.

Heather (23:44):
Because I would've scared the shit outta that kid.
Yeah.
I would've been like, Hey, motherfucker.
Mm-hmm.
You know what a, you know what a ziptie is while you're gonna find out?
Or I would've looked through thelittle crack like this the whole time.

Zoe (23:56):
Yeah.
Well, I kept like trying to makeeye contact with them again.
Yeah.
Throughout the flight.
But I couldn't, what's worse is whenit's like an adult person and you're
like, oh, oh, well if it it was an adult

Heather (24:06):
person, then

Zoe (24:07):
that would be something different.
Now

Heather (24:08):
I'm gonna have to fight this gentleman.
I'm the plane.
Yeah.
Huh.
Worth it though.
But yeah, I think mental health wise.
You know what though?
Things are good.
Yeah.
Things are happening and I tryto move with the universe and
be like BB ba Off the shoulder.
Off the shoulder.
Off the shoulder.
We're going.
We're going.
Let's get to news.
Lil Nas.
Okay, so Lil Nas.

Zoe (24:28):
Yes.
So what did happen?
I only saw that he was in jail.
I didn't read any of the article.

Heather (24:37):
So Lil Nas X has been released from jail.
Okay.
It was a $75,000 bail.
Okay.
Which is, which is so much, I don't knowhow they decide that, but basically last
week we talked about NAS and how he waslike strutting down Ventura Boulevard
and he was wearing his underpants andcowboy boots and like 5:00 AM Yeah.

(24:58):
Yeah.
And being crazy on the street.
Okay.
Yeah.
But not overdosing, not harming anybody.
No.
Like he was just doing his thing.
However.
The cops were obviously called.
Yeah, because you do, you have toeventually call the cops when there's
like a, a mental health crisis.
But then we, I thought hewent to the hospital, right?

(25:19):
He did.
Okay.
He, he was to the hospital, so he wentto the hospital for like a possible
overdose and to check him out.
They probably have to do that.
Yeah.
And then actually I don'tWhat do He was arrested then?
He was arrested and put in jail.
Got it.
Cornell, I wonder if they gavehim like pants and a sweater.
Yeah.
I wonder what they do.
Probably not.
But, um, $75,000 bail with conditions.
Like he has to go to weekly meetings.
He can't be on substances, drugs,or alcohol for like the first

(25:42):
foreseeable future, blah, blah, blah.
Until he gets his sentencing, whichhis trial is on September 15th.
Okay.
So that is soon.
Okay.
Well maybe this is like kindof what he needed to like Yeah.
So I open up his eyes a little bit.
Yeah.
And I, I don't know, I think like the,I mean, there's so many things, right?
Like we can talk abouthis sobriety and Yeah.

(26:02):
How he probably was not sober.
Yeah.
And I think a, a big thing for me in this.
His dad made a statement.
Oh, that what?
He was really upset.
He was like at the courthouse.
Okay.
His dad came, which like, dads fucking,some people's dads are amazing.
Mm-hmm.
Mine included.
Is your dad amazing?

(26:22):
Yeah.
That's nice.
What is your dad?
He pick me up from the courthouse.
He would pick you up from the courthouse?
He had to pick me up fromthe courthouse twice.
Did he yell in your face?
Of course

Zoe (26:32):
he

Heather (26:32):
yelled in my face.

Zoe (26:33):
Oh, I know dad's

Heather (26:35):
because your dad's a nice dad, right?
Yeah, my dad's nice.
And when my dad would yell, I'm like, oh.
It's like, what is this how it's, that'sthe thing when they yell, it's scary.
It's so scary.
I not interested.
Yeah.
Except my dad used to fake heartattacks and I'll never live that down.
I'm never gonna stop talking about it.
It's, it's a psychotic thing to do anyway.
His dad came to the courthouse and hewas like, NAS is, he didn't call him

(26:58):
Nas, but Nas is so fucking stressed.
Like this is a result of fameand stress and like, I guess he's
just been under a lot of pressure.
Okay.
And I get that.
And I feel like, like his la his albumsand his like previous, no, but like all
famous people have to go through that.
Not all famous people are

Zoe (27:16):
dancing naked on the

Heather (27:17):
street.
However, that is a verysimilar situation to trauma.
And like, why can wehave similar experiences?
Yeah.
Growing up you're fine with a baby.
Yeah.
I'm a little psychocrying in therapy all day.

Zoe (27:29):
Yeah.

Heather (27:30):
It's like, what is that pressure?
Mm-hmm.
And again, we don't know whatthat pressure is, but like
maybe that's the difference.
Like, he's an addict.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe.
Maybe that's true.
Yeah.
And like you're trying to cope for so longand then eventually, like no one wants
to be walking down the street like that.
No one wants to be ina mental health crisis.
Mm-hmm.
But it does feel like by thetime you get there mm-hmm.
You're so delusional that it's.

(27:52):
We need again, where is your team?
Yeah, like we needpeople to be in therapy.
Yeah.
Like these are people who have money.
You have to have a therapist cometo your house every Wednesday
morning, but that also isn't enough.
People go through mental health crises.
Yeah.
So what happened is Nas caughtthree, he caught four charges,

(28:12):
three felony counts of batterycausing injury to a police officer.
Okay.
So when I guess they pickedhim up to take him to the

Zoe (28:19):
hospital, he fought them.

Heather (28:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the other felony count ofresisting an executive officer.
I don't know why they hadto say executive officer.
I'm like, mm-hmm.
So your job title makes itworse that he was resisting you.
Why?
Because you're little.
That's interesting.
Bitch.
Three felony counts of battery.
Okay.
Causing harm to officers.
Three officers.
Okay.
These were the injuries.

(28:41):
An abrasion on the head.
Now an abrasion with these cops canbe anything from like a small neck.
Mm-hmm.
To a bruise to just kind of being hit.
I wanna see the video.
I wanna see the video too.
Yeah.
Body cam an injury to his hand.
He said, actually it wasn't aninjury, he just said he hurt his hand.
Mm-hmm.
And the other cop had a sprained back.

(29:03):
Okay.
So Nas was unarmed.
Mm-hmm.
And he's obviously erratic enough towhere cops like, have to get in there.

Music (29:12):
Yeah.

Heather (29:12):
But I don't give a fuck about the cop's injuries.
I, this is a mental health crisis.
Mm-hmm.
This is, I, I think thething, like you're a cop.
Some jobs you're.
Gonna get hurt a little bit.
I don't really feel like heshould have been arrested for that
because after the fact like Sure.
So you're mad

Zoe (29:33):
about the system, you're mad about the system.
I think

Heather (29:35):
I'm mad about the system.
I think I'm mad about the lack of empathy.
Yeah.
I think I'm like, if this wasn't a blackgentleman, would this be different?
I don't know actually.
'cause I also, you know, we alsohave like white girls who have
been like picked up and likethrown into fucking, well, when my

Zoe (29:48):
boyfriend got his DUI, he fought the cops as well.
And that was another charge that he got.
He fought

Heather (29:53):
the cops.
Yeah.
With his fists, his words,it was like resisting arrest.
Yeah.
Did he get, he got a charge for that.
Yeah.
Resisting arrest.
But it's just like, youhave to change your mind.
So you have to immediately go from likea crisis situation into like submission.
Yeah.
No, I What?
'cause I didn't fight the cops.
Sorry officer, I didn'tknow how fast I was going.

(30:15):
Like you weren't going fast at all.
You were in a ditch.
I was probably just like,

Zoe (30:19):
you probably stopped me and then I immediately fell

Heather (30:22):
asleep.
You're like, I actually haveto dissociate these so much.
I just take me to prison.
That's fine.
Prison take me, take me away.
Take me away.
I know what I've done.

Zoe (30:30):
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think 'cause that's the system, right?
Like if you resist arrest, if you fighta cop, like you're gonna get charged.

Heather (30:37):
I guess so.
But I kind of feel like the chargesshould be dropped once we realize
that this aggressive alleged situationis due to a mental health crisis.
Yeah.
This isn't a person who wentout looking for someone to hurt.
Yeah.
This isn't a person that's like,you know, it's not, it's just
like he's going through somethingand I'm sorry, but your head.
Your hand and your back.

(30:58):
Yeah, I don't, yeah.
Yeah.
Have you like, children willhurt your head, hand and back?
Mm-hmm.
Like, that's part of the, I don'tknow, it just felt like adding
that into the, the fi the documentfelt a little, well, I feel like it

Zoe (31:11):
probably like, so there he's charged that it's probably gonna get dropped
due to a mental health crisis, you know?
Does that

Heather (31:19):
happen?

Zoe (31:20):
That can happen.
Yeah.
That can happen.
Yeah.
I would hope that would happen.
My boyfriend, the charge against himfor like, as a, um, resisting arrest.
Mm-hmm.
That one did get dropped.
Does he remember that?
I think so.
Oh, he does?
I don't think he was like ablackout as I was, was on Was
he drunk or was he on coke?
Both.
Both, uh, both.

(31:40):
The drug charge got, the drugcharge got dropped as well.
So it's just booze.

Heather (31:45):
Nice.

Zoe (31:46):
Literally everything that he talks about, about his whole case.
Mm-hmm.
Charge.

Music (31:52):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (31:52):
It goes over my head.
Like some things like that I just likereally can't understand holy shit.
That's like me with finances, like Yeah.
Whenever we have like financialthings, there's certain things I
just like, really cannot understand.
Some things cannotpenetrate into my brain.
No.
And that's just being a

Heather (32:08):
girl, maybe.
I don't know a hundred percent.
However, I will say,because now of this mm-hmm.
I've had little financial meetings hereand there, and I'm like, you know what?
I think I could get it.

Zoe (32:17):
Yeah.

Heather (32:18):
Am I gonna be interested and start listening to financial?
What?

Zoe (32:20):
No.
I think like when we see Alexia next week,like she, she broke this down for me.
She was like, so many millions ofpeople in the world listen to podcasts.
Yeah.
8 million people in the world are sober

Heather (32:33):
if 8 million people are sober.
Yeah.
Is that sober or is that including likenon, like non-drinkers like children?
I don't think so.
Okay, so maybe adult

Zoe (32:42):
age

Heather (32:43):
non-drinkers.
Yeah.
Oh, I like that.

Zoe (32:44):
And then so if we even get like a percentage of those eight that listen to
the podcast, like we have a big audience.
Yeah.
Like she broke it down for us.
Where are you?
She broke it down for me and I waslike, oh my God, that's so smart
and cool that you just did that.
I love that.
It's so

Heather (33:00):
impressive when women are smart and cool.

Zoe (33:02):
No, Alexia's like phenomenal and like she will be our point person.
Point person for sure.
Multiple point people.
I love

Heather (33:10):
it.
I'm so happy

Zoe (33:11):
we have people I know that we can trust.
I'm so happy too.
It's so nice.

Heather (33:14):
As long as everyone still loves us.
Oh, they will.
Um, it's so that's still, I just, I thinklike it, it is a bigger conversation
about like, why in the fucking worldwould three male cops be called to this?
Like, this is a mental health crisis.
It happened here a few years ago.
At my building.
The sister building.

(33:34):
Yeah.
But they, the people callthe cops right On him.
Yes.
But when you explain what's happening withthe situation and the cops show up, then
they should call, there should always bea mental health worker or a crisis worker.
There's so many social workers out hereand they get paid pennies, and there's
just like, I'm like, guys, you have,you found, especially in the states,

(33:55):
I'm like, you found $13 billion for war.
Mm-hmm.
Let's contribute a little bit tomental health, a fucking fraction.
Mm-hmm.
Because a police officers, Ifucking don't care for you.
However, it's not your fucking fault.
Mm-hmm.
It's not your fault that you showup to a mental health case and
have been given zero training.

(34:16):
Yeah.
Right.
And how to deal with it.
It's very stressful.
Right.
It's a very stressful job ifwe wanna be empathetic at all.
So there needs to be support.
Mm-hmm.
There needs to be support.
You don't want to be like dealingwith something you know nothing about.
Everyone's gonna get fucking hurt.
Yeah.
So if there was a crisis worker there,then they could at least be like, no,
you know what, put him in handcuffs.

(34:37):
Yeah.
Like we

Zoe (34:37):
have to, you know, control the situation a little bit.
Yeah, I agree with that.
And advocate

Heather (34:42):
and

Zoe (34:42):
like, I think, yeah, that's like the goal, right?

Heather (34:45):
That would be my goal.
Yeah.
But I don't know what the goal is.
Apparently the goal here is just to putliquor on the highway at gas stations.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
So I don't Crazy.
That's what we're doing.

Zoe (34:58):
Yeah.
We're focusing on the wrong thing.

Heather (34:59):
Every time Doug Ford has anything to say about alcohol and like per like
the prices and the tariffs, I'm like,what the fuck are you talking about?
Yeah.
We have a crisis going on.
Anyway.
There's another app,there's another sober app.
We love

Zoe (35:12):
these apps.
Okay.
This app is called, it justlike is so showing of how.
Sobriety is becoming so mainstream ifthere's so many apps about it, you know?

Heather (35:22):
Yeah.
100%. It is.
That is good.
Yeah.
I think like the one from a fewweeks ago that we talked about, yeah.
That just felt like, that felt likesomeone created that app who is
not sober, has not had addiction.
They're just trying to like make an app.
Yeah.
It sell it.
It's very strange.
This one

Zoe (35:38):
seems more focused on like staying sober.
Yeah.
This one, and notcontrolling your alcohol.
That the other one was more likeabout controlling your alcohol.
Yeah.
This like

Heather (35:48):
says the words addiction.
Yeah.
It says like relapse.
It says things like that.
Mm-hmm.
It's really cool.
This app is called Sunflower.
Honestly,

Zoe (35:57):
sunflowers are my favorite flower, but I don't have, and I think
each day you get a new flower thatblooms in your garden on the app.
No.
Which is a little bit

Heather (36:06):
like

Zoe (36:06):
jokey.
Oh yeah.

Heather (36:08):
No, I like that.
Because you know why?
Because we are of the generationof Tamagotchi, uh, we are of
the generation of collectingthings, things love tamagotchi.
Mine would always shit itself to death.
Always.
Really?
Yes.
Yes.
I don't even rememberthat being an option.
It would and it would beep in my roomand my dad was reading us Charlotte's
Web and I'd be like, oh my God, myTamagotchi just shit himself to death.
I totally know He did that.

(36:28):
And my sister would belike, you have to clean him.
And I'm like, I won't, andI won't ever clean anything.
Ever.
Okay.
That's what happened.
So, um, okay, so the Sunflower app.
I haven't.
Okay.
So I did, I got the free subscription.
Yeah.
It's like $49 a year,so like that's not bad.
That's not bad.
I think the other onewas like $200 A like 200.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was $200 to relapse every day.

(36:50):
Literally to like enable an addiction.
Yeah.

Zoe (36:53):
Literally.

Heather (36:53):
Yeah.
This one is cool.
So this one has like, there'slike social, like there's like
a cool, what do you call this?
Like a something for like a community?
Yeah.
Like a platform where you can alltalk to each other, which is nice.
Really fucking nice.
Yeah.
Like that's what you need.
Yeah.
There's your journal.
You can count your days.
Zoe said, grow your sunflowers.
There's also, the biggest partof this is that there is an AI.

(37:17):
Sponsor and so we decidedto talk to it a little bit.

Zoe (37:21):
Yeah.
I was talking to it about, Iused my friend as a mm-hmm.
Example, 'cause my friend just is soberand she thought that she may get invited
to this wedding now that she's sober.
But she didn't get invited

Heather (37:36):
and she's

Zoe (37:36):
feeling

Heather (37:37):
sad.
This is the weddingthat you're going to No.
Oh, a different wedding.
Everyone's getting married.
Yeah.
So we tried to talk to this AIto just kind of give it like a, a
scenario and see what would happen.

Zoe (37:48):
I asked it if it had any suggestions for meetings in my area.
Mm-hmm.
It didn't have access to that.
It just told me to go on the CAM website.
Yeah.
Which is like fine andcool, which is great.
It's very accessible.
But it, everything thatit was saying was very.
Like Nice and like, canyou give us an example?
Supportive.

(38:08):
Sometimes the rewards of sobrietyaren't obvious right away.
It's like planting a garden.
You don't see the flowers theday after you plant the seeds.
I.

Heather (38:18):
Did you ask it a question?

Zoe (38:19):
I was just like, I'm struggling today because I feel like I don't
have anybody and I feel like I amsober, but I'm not getting any more
opportunities from being sober.

Music (38:28):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (38:29):
Um, and like it said back to me, I want you to know
something one month sober is huge.
Like seriously huge.
Your brain is, your brain and body arestill adjusting to this new normal.
Um, I asked how to motivatemyself to get outta bed.
It said to start tiny,maybe sit up and stretch.

(38:50):
Mm-hmm.
Put on your favorite song.
Like everything it was sayingwas really nice and supportive.
Mm-hmm.
But your initial thoughtsyesterday were like, no.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.

Heather (39:02):
So I'm obviously cynical about everything.
Yeah.
And I. I, and because I'm a, achild pre, I'm a pre-internet child.
Mm-hmm.
I worry, well, here's what I said.
Yeah.
Anything that's ai, anything that's nota person, I'm gonna fucking lie to it.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Like, I'm a liar.
Or even I lied to mytherapists who are real people.

(39:23):
Right.
You know?
So like, I'm not a liar now.
And you always catch me when I say that.
Yeah.
I used to be the liar.
Yeah.
I'm amazing at it.
I've been doing it my whole life.
Mm-hmm.
Even before I was anaddict, I was fucking lying.
I love to lie and make shit up.
I, if I was trying to quit, if I'man addict and I have ai, I don't

(39:45):
know how honest I'm being with it.
Like, I could bullshit it.
Yeah.
I could be like, yeah, I onlydrank a little bit today.
Or just like, fuck off.
Yeah.
Whereas like,

Zoe (39:52):
let's ask it that right now.
Okay.
Like, just be like, I onlydrank a little bit today.
Am IS like, can I still besober or something like that.

Heather (40:02):
I'm gonna say I only drank a little bit today.
Do I have to start over?

Music (40:05):
Mm-hmm.

Heather (40:06):
Hey, first of all, I want you to know that a slip
doesn't erase all your progress.
No, it does.
Okay, well, we canactually talk about that.
Yeah.
Recovery isn't about perfection.
It's about progress and getting progressand getting back up when we stumble.
What matters most right now is howyou're feeling and what support
you need to get back on track.
Every moment is a new chanceto choose differently.
Wanna talk about whatled to the drink today?

(40:28):
Sometimes understanding our triggerscan help us plan better for next time.

Zoe (40:31):
That's good.
That it like, wants youto get back on track.
Yeah.
You know, it's not like, oh, like, keepdrinking or like Yeah, that's okay.
That you drink.
I think it is for sober people.
Yeah.
Like this is addiction app for sure.

Heather (40:42):
Yeah.
I, I like that.
I do.
I think, um, either I would lie to it.
I'm trying to think because when I,even when I had my FitnessPal mm-hmm.
And I was like tracking myfood, I was lying to it.
Mm-hmm.
But when I was tracking my alcohol and thecalories and that, I was bringing it down.
Yeah.
I was being like, oh, Ionly had one glass three.
Yeah.
So I'm like.

(41:03):
How much am I gonna lie to this thing?
But now that I'm talking about it, I'mkind of like, it's stupid to lie to ai.
It's stupid to lie to the app.
So maybe it's kind of good.
Maybe it's a step in the right directionbefore you actually talk to a person.
Yeah,

Zoe (41:15):
it, I think

Heather (41:16):
it is

Zoe (41:16):
beneficial.
I think I was saying,oh, it could be nice.
Maybe not when I was getting sober,because yeah, I would lie to it too.
But maybe if I got it now and I wastrying to call my sponsor and she didn't
pick up, maybe it would be nice tohave like this other, yeah, AI sponsor.
Maybe that could be a good support.

(41:37):
But then I was like, no, because Ihave so many other people I would call.
Right.
Instead of going to my AI sponsor.
And that's like the pointof going to meetings is like
having a lot of people Yeah.
To call if something isnot going right for you.
But again, not a lot ofpeople are as like social.
Mm-hmm.

(41:57):
And like outgoing.
Or maybe they're just starting and theydon't have that many people to call.
Yeah.
So in that case it could be a goodoption to, I think like it is good.
Yeah.
I think it's obviously maybe not ideal.
It shouldn't be the goal.
Mm-hmm.
But this

Heather (42:15):
is a good support to have.
It's like any hole is a goal.
Yeah.
Do you feel burdened when you, do youfeel like a burden if you need to call,
Hey, let's say here's your scenario.
I'm your sponsor, youcall me, I'm not avail.

Music (42:27):
Yeah.

Heather (42:28):
You're like, oh, fuck me, now I gotta call someone else from the meeting.
Do you?
Honestly, my sponsorhas never not picked up.
AB is a terrible scenario.
Okay.
But I'm your sponsor, so I am oftendoing something or I'm taking long
baths and I'm not answering the phone.
Do you feel like.
Super cool to callsomebody from the meeting.
Yeah.
Do you feel like you're gonna burdenthem by like being, oh God, Zoe's

(42:48):
calling, she's having a crisis.

Zoe (42:49):
No, I think like that's the whole point of calling people is the person
that I'm calling, they're gonna feellike happy that I reached out to them.
Okay.
You know, like it's a group Yeah.
Thing like I'm helping my sponsor.
Right.
Or like my friend by callingher because I came to her.

Heather (43:07):
Right.
And that's the point of community, right?
Yeah.
Like that is like they'rethere for themselves.
They're there for you.
They're benefiting from helping me.
Well, that's the other part of aa.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
It's like it is the sponsor.
That's the work, right?
Mm-hmm.
The sponsor's work is tohelp everybody else, right?
Yeah.
Or like the sponsor's work isto like keep other people sober.

Zoe (43:28):
No.
Like, no.
The sponsor is just thereto like support, you know?
Sure, sure,

Heather (43:33):
sure.
It helps them.
I guess what I was trying to get tois that like it is good for them.
Yeah.
They to be helping community.

Zoe (43:39):
By help my sponsor, by helping me is helping her sobriety as well.
Right?
Like it is a group effort.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, I think it's not a bad app.
I, the world is going intothis AI direction, right?
Yeah.
So it makes sense that this is happening.

Music (43:57):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (43:58):
Um, I don't think it's like a bad app.
No.

Heather (44:01):
But we should not be, we should not be fully like, um,
relying on our AI robots communityis so important to everybody.
Yeah.
You live longer, your're happier.
Your heart health is betterwhen you're around community.
And for sober people,it's like so important.
Yeah.

Zoe (44:20):
It's so important.
I think like if I was getting sober,I don't know how helpful it would be.
Like.
You're right.
And maybe it would belike a first step Yeah.
Into meeting someone in IRL.
Mm-hmm.
But.
I don't know.
I think like, I'm happy this app exists.
Yeah.
I think that's really cool.
Well, it's kind of cool 'cause like 10years ago, no way would this app exists.

Heather (44:39):
No way.
Women, women weren't even allowedto be alcoholics 10 years ago.
Mm-hmm.
Um, it is, um, I think maybe for a lotof people too, like even me still, like
I, when people are sober for reasonsthat I'm not sober, I'm like, what?
Yeah.
I'm like, how did that, or like mm-hmm.
Where's your trauma?
What happened?
You know, things like that.

(44:59):
I think a lot of people inaddiction feel very alone.
Mm-hmm.
And even though you know thatother people experience it,
you just feel so fucking alone.
This is the only thing, you're theonly person this is happening to.
How the fuck am I gonna get out of it?
But I think what's kind of niceis this community board Yeah.
People are using language likerelapsing and drinking and cravings.

(45:21):
And so I think it's kind ofnice to look through this Yeah.
And be like, what is everyone?
Can you message someone on that?
Like individually.
Yeah,

Zoe (45:28):
you can.
Yeah.
And then like maybe you canmeet a pen pal through this app.
And that could be like someone thatyou actually call for a crisis.
That's true too.
You

Heather (45:36):
probably could meet friends on this.
'cause someone said, Idunno if, well, it's fine.
Hi everyone.
I'm new to Sunflower.
I'm trying to get sober and Ineed all the support I can get.
That's really nice.
Gives their name and then says,I'm four hours clean today.
Nice.
I kind of like that.
I kind of like that too.
How many times was I four hours clean?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And being like, okay, I won't, Iwon't if I'm reading, you never know.
Mm-hmm.
I think it's good.

(45:56):
This is good.
This feels like an addition.
Yeah.
To ai.

Zoe (46:00):
I

Heather (46:00):
think so too.
It's an addition.

Zoe (46:01):
It's, yeah.
I think Cool.
I think it's cool.
It's not, obviously youshouldn't only be doing that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like

Heather (46:09):
it.
I do like it.
I like that it's pushing sobriety.
Yeah.
I like that.
It is about addiction.
It's not like, oh, you know,don't worry, you're not an addict.
You can control it.
It's like these peopleare like, no, you can't.
You're psycho.
Stop.
You know what I mean?
Fuck yeah.
Yeah.
I like it.
Same.
I'm happy about that.
Um, okay Zoe, let's talk about London.
Let's talk about London.
Zoe.
We went to London.

(46:30):
She's a to London.
London girl

Zoe (46:31):
Now do you wanna move there?
I mean, it's fucking niceas hell there, right?
I know.
It's so good.
It's so expensive though.
Like I can't afford it.
We would have to live together.
Yeah, we would.
It is so expensive.
Like I didn't even realize that.
Like you think Toronto, youthink New York's expensive?
No way.
London's expensive.
I think Toronto's

Heather (46:48):
more expensive than New York.
Do you think?
I do.
I think for like whatyou, uh, I take it back.
I

Zoe (46:54):
think New York's like a tiny bit more expensive than Toronto.
I think we have, we definitely have.
Especially with the dollar in the

Heather (47:01):
States now, too.
Sure.
I guess I'm being like relative.
Yeah.
But like if you, I think you getmore bang for your buck in Toronto.
'cause we do have bullshithere, but I feel like in New
York there's so much bullshit.
Mm. Like most people here Ifeel like have a dishwasher.
Yeah.
Wouldn't you say in a condo?
Yeah.
Yeah.
In a condo.
And like laundry.
Laundry.
Yeah.
New York is like, this is a building.

(47:23):
Put something in it.
Yeah.
There you go.
Fuck off.
That's true.
Yeah.

Zoe (47:25):
Very expensive.
Very happy.
I went, it was interesting 'causewhen I booked, when I was thinking
of going to London mm-hmm.
I was like, oh, it's the long weekend,like the last long weekend of the summer.
I should be spending it with my boyfriend.
Nah, I should go to London.
You know?
Yeah.
So like I'm really proud of myselffor making that decision too.
If like, would that have notbeen an, would you have not

(47:47):
made that decision before?
No.
Okay.
I would've put my boyfriendfirst all the time.
So I'm like, yeah, fuck yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I'm an independent queen.
I don't need no boyfriend.
I that my friends come first.
I like that Zoe.
So I was really happy that Iended up going in the first place.
'cause yeah, it was really likeindependent and like girl boss

(48:08):
of me totally going to visit.
My friend was so nice.
We slept together every night.
We had slumber parties every night.
We did face masks.
It was really sweet and wholesome.
But

Heather (48:20):
this is the first time you guys have

Zoe (48:22):
been together like that.
Right.
So yeah, that was my, I haven't hung outwith her for more than maybe five hours.
Right.
Then we've never had a sleepover.
We spent four days together.
Yeah.
Never had a sleepover.
Were you at all worried about that?
No, and I talked to her about that too.
She wasn't really worried either.
I think it's because we.
We understand each other probablybecause we are both sober.
Yeah.
And yeah, I just like,I trusted her a lot.

(48:45):
I usually am the one making plans.
Mm-hmm.
In like all scenarios of my life.
I'm like, I wanna make the plan.
We're going here, we're doingthis today and in London.
I fully just let her make all the plans.
You got to be baby.
I got to be baby.
And it was, I love being

Heather (48:59):
baby.

Zoe (49:00):
Really nice.
I, I told her like, Idon't usually do this.
Mm-hmm.
And I must like reallytrust you if I let you Yeah.
Do full control of the whole trip.
And it was an amazing trip and

Heather (49:12):
I wouldn't have changed a thing.
Yeah.
There's a world in which, if Iwas going to visit her mm-hmm.
What a crazy thing.
That would be so random.
I would like stay in a hotel.
Mm. Like I am nervous about beingin that close quarters with people.
Yeah.
That I don't really know.
Yeah.
Even my sister, I've got a two day cap.
I'm like,

Zoe (49:29):
yeah.

Heather (49:29):
Good for you.
I don't, I think it was just like, youhave a high tolerance though, for like.
That she, it was nice.
Yeah, it was nice.
Not that she's difficult, but I feellike being with the same person for
four days something you're not planning.
Yeah, it's a lot.
I

Zoe (49:41):
mean, like when we, when I was like, I need to fucking have
a nap, like, we both shut up andwe did our own thing, you know?
Oh, okay.
Like, it was very, I felt likeI could tell her like what I
needed in certain scenarios.
So, I don't know.
I think I was proud of myselffor letting go as well, and
like letting her take the lead.
And is she a good planner?
She's amazing.
Yeah.
She seems like she'd be a good planner.

(50:03):
Yeah.

Heather (50:03):
Um,

Zoe (50:04):
a couple weird things happened.
Yes.
When we were at a pub on a Friday night,maybe it was like 11:00 PM we wanted
to get a dessert before we went home.
Mm-hmm.
So we got like this apple rhubarb crumbleand I got a water and she ordered a tea.
11:00 PM Tea is a very British thing.

(50:25):
Whatever.
It's your whole thing and it'sliterally your whole thing.
It's the whole thing.
You invented it.
There was a different server that camearound and he looked at Alexia and
she, he was like, what are you doing?
Drinking a tea in mybar on a Friday night?
I'm gonna have to shut off the cameras.
So no one sees this, like, I can'tbelieve you're doing this right now.
Called her out for drinking a teaon a Friday night at this pub.

(50:49):
Not in a quiet way either.
Right.
I was gonna ask,

Heather (50:52):
do people hear him say that?
Yeah.

Zoe (50:53):
Everyone's now looking at Alexia and Alexia's like, uh,
yeah, the tea's like, great.
It's great though.
It's great tea.
And I'm like, what the

Heather (51:00):
fuck?
Yeah.
Yeah, you said something.
So I heard that story and I was like,I would've been like, Hmm, yeah, I am.
Because when I drink mm-hmm.
I'll burn down this bar and havesex with everyone in it, and
then I'll be the only survivor.
Is that what you want?
But you said, what the fuckwould I do if I was in early
sobriety and that happened to me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That would've been sovulnerable on a trip overseas.

(51:21):
First time with this person that youlike, you know, but it's, you know,
it's an interesting new friendshipand then someone calls you out for

Zoe (51:28):
Yeah.
If I was in early sobriety, thatwould've been like, oh, should
we just like drink Alexia?
Like, do you wanna justlike get a drink instead?
Like that?
I probably would've left that bar and

Heather (51:36):
gone to the liquor store.
Honestly.
Yeah.
Like I would've been like, fuck it then.

Zoe (51:39):
Yeah.
Scary.
And like Alexia doesn't wanna air outto everyone at this bar that she's
an alcoholic and that she's sober.
Yeah.
Like, yeah, I know.
Not everyone is so vocal aboutsobriety in that way, so it's like,

Heather (51:51):
no, it's really interesting.
And I get it.
It's like, sure.
Like cultural in London to drink.
But there's also addiction.
Yeah.
Like there is addiction in London.
Oh, there's addiction in Italy.
There's addiction everywhere.
She goes to meetings

Zoe (52:06):
in London.
Yeah.
Like, come on there.
It happens everywhere.
And also he's maybe this guy was like,oh, I could never drink a tea, so I
have to call this girl out for drinkinga tea on a Friday night at a pub.
Yeah.
Maybe.
It was like, oh, I could neverdo this and now I feel insecure,
so I have to call her out.
Mm. Was that what was going on?
Was he, was he charting?

(52:26):
I, it didn't seem like it.

Heather (52:27):
Yeah.
It just feels like you're horriblyoffended that not everyone is doing
what you're doing at this bar.
Exactly.
And I can't control that.

Zoe (52:33):
Yeah.
Very strange.
It was not nice, and itkind of did ruin the vibe.
Like, yeah, we leftimmediately after that.
We were like, okay, let'sfucking go home, I guess.

Heather (52:42):
So in retrospect, what do you kind of wish either of you had said?
Like, do you wish you had said anything?
Or do you wish you had just been like,okay and rolled your eyes, or, yeah.
Wish it hadn't affected you.
Like what do you kind of,

Zoe (52:53):
I don't think it.
It didn't really affect us.
Like we didn't leave right away.
Sure.
But like why would we like chilland keep talking at this pub?
Well, you're not wanted.
Well, we're not wanted, sowe just like finished our,

Heather (53:04):
yeah,

Zoe (53:04):
our dessert.
Finished our tea and left.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think it's a weird one.
I'll find out the name of thatpub and I'll let you guys know
to never go back there again.

Heather (53:15):
Yeah.
And also it's totally fineto order a tea at a bar.
Always.
Yeah.
Like it yet.
Yeah.
It's weird.
It's not a tea room, but it's fine.
They have tea there.

Zoe (53:23):
They have tea there for a reason.
And it's, yeah, it's night time.
I said this too.
It's not about the

Heather (53:27):
tips.
It's not like, oh, you order analcoholic beverage, you give more tips.
They don't tip like that there.
Yeah.
So what is this about sir? Yeah.
You're just not wanted.
Your kind is not wanted here.
You sober little rats.
Yeah,

Zoe (53:39):
I know.
We're not gonna be.

Heather (53:41):
Crazy and drunk and easy to

Zoe (53:43):
fuck for the all these guys,

Heather (53:45):
you know?
Well, and that's, that's exactly right.
I'm like, I'm not cominghere to fit into the vibe.
I just wanna drink my tea and lookaround and people watch and hang
with my friend, and that's fine.
It is like a bit polarizing.
Mm-hmm.
You are like, I'm justminding my own business.
Yeah.
I don't know, like with peoplelike that, are you supposed
to be like, actually sit down.
Here's my whole life story now.
Do you wish you wouldn't have said that?

(54:06):
Or do you want me to have a drink?
Well, that's the thing, like I don't thinkwe're, we have to do that every time.
No, I would love to do it.
Yeah.
But no, it is, it is crazy.
Like if someone's like not harminganyone, no one's being bothered.
It's like, yeah, why the fuck would shebe drinking a tea at 11:00 PM on a Friday?
Mm-hmm.
Maybe just shut up.

Music (54:24):
Mm-hmm.

Heather (54:25):
You know?
Mm-hmm.
Maybe she's got scurvy.
Yeah.
So

Zoe (54:27):
that was one thing that happened that I wasn't loving.
Mm-hmm.

Heather (54:32):
Did you go to a lot of bars?
We went to like three.
Okay.
Fun.
Yeah.
And did you feel that kindof thing from anyone else?
No.
There was one drinking pressure.
There was one guy that we

Zoe (54:43):
met that was like, really, really drunk.
And I was just like, Ugh, thisis, did you have sex with him?
So, no.
But he had a wife and he had justgotten married like two months ago and
he hadn't seen his wife in two months.
And he, the wife's in Miami and thisman is just getting plastered at a pub.
And I'm like, oh, is he, he'sdefinitely cheating on his wife, right?

Heather (55:02):
Yeah.
They all are.

Zoe (55:03):
Yeah.
What is this dynamic?
What is that dynamic?
I don't know.
I think maybe she justmarried him for the money.
I don't know.
Oh, well then, yeah, get your bag.
Get your bag.
Damn.

Heather (55:13):
Yeah.
I don't like that.
And I want my like new husband partyingin London with a bunch of like hot girls.
I'd be like, yeah, are your child?
And he seemed

Zoe (55:22):
like older too.
I'm like, go back to your wife babe.
He was trying to come out with us too.
'cause we were going toanother club after that pub.
Mm-hmm.
Interesting.
And he was like, oh, well, like.
When are, when are we going?
And I was like, no, no, Alexia,

Heather (55:36):
he's not coming with us.
No, no, no, no, no.
You're like, yeah, I'll meet you outside.
Then you take the backdoor and you go, yeah.
Damn.

Zoe (55:41):
Wow.
Okay.
Yeah.
But when we went out to thatother bar slash club, it was nice.
A lot of men approached both of us.
Yeah, probably like five.
Okay.
And it felt very New York.
Yeah.
Because you're both, you

Heather (55:55):
were both there single.
Yeah.
Like you were both there by yourselves.

Zoe (55:57):
Yeah, exactly.
There, like in New York, when Iwent a couple years ago, so many men
approached me and I was like, oh myGod, this never happens in Toronto.
Oh my God.
Never.

Heather (56:07):
Oh

Zoe (56:07):
my

Heather (56:08):
God.
No.
It's crazy.

Zoe (56:09):
And then I go to London, same thing happens.
Someone comes up to me and says, Iwas the best dressed in Notting Hill.
And I said, thank you very much.
I bought this outfit today.
You went to a party?
Yeah.
With their cute boys.
There was a couple cute boys, but atthis party that I went to, everyone
was basically in a relationship.
Mm-hmm.
So that was kind of annoying.
Oh.

(56:29):
But so fun to go and flirt.
Yeah.
There was one guy that Iwas kind of flirting with.
Mm-hmm.
Um, he was like, nice, but there wasn'tmuch substance to the conversation.
Mm-hmm.
Me and Alexia went to the bathroomupstairs after, and she was like,
oh, he was giving you the eyes.
And I was like, yeah, butthere's like no substance.

(56:51):
No substance to him.
You gotta give more.
I'm sober.
Yeah.
I'm like, I was boring atthe end to talk to him.
Whatever.

Heather (56:56):
Yeah.

Zoe (56:57):
And we come out from the bathroom and he's standing right there.
Did he hear you?
We'll, never know.
Well, you know what though?
We'll never know.
You're boring.
Um, yeah.
But then I was saying bye toeverybody at that party and he.
Like said bye to me across theroom and gave me the eyes again.
So like, I think he knows likethe eyes is all he got, you know?

(57:18):
Like it,

Heather (57:19):
yeah.
I like it.
Well, I had a, he was cute.
I had a conversation recentlywith this person that I'm involved
with, with about being open.
Mm-hmm.
Because at the beginning of the relat,I would always say like, yeah, if
you go to like London or Italy orsomewhere and you're like, you meet
somebody and you are having a nice timeand you wanna kiss, like, go ahead.
Mm-hmm.
Like that's a, that's so hot.
Yeah.
And B, why the fuck would Iwanna hold you back from that?

(57:41):
And also I wanna do it too.
Yeah.
And then he asked me recently,he was like, so is that true?
Yeah.
Do you feel like that?
And I'm like, yes.
And he's like, okay, well whatif it's not a different country?
Like what if it's this country?
And I was like, yeah, yeah, totally.
And then he was like,well what if it's Toronto?
And I was like, Ooh dunno.
I was like, maybe too close.
I'm not really sure.
I'm not really sure.

(58:02):
But I did like that conversation.
'cause

Zoe (58:05):
yeah, the more you talk about it, the more you know
and well, because there's the

Heather (58:08):
boundaries.
You know, there is one person thatI'm trying to date and marry, so Yeah.
May.
And I asked, I asked him,I said, may Martin forever.
I said, if May and I, if Mayand I ever meet, can we kiss?
Yeah.
And he said, yeah, yeah.
I said, thank you.
But I like that conversation.
I'm into it.
Yeah.
I'm into potentially notbeing someone's everything.

(58:28):
Always.
For sure.

Zoe (58:30):
You know?
And like I talked to my boyfriendat the end of that night and I
told him that whole scenario.
Mm-hmm.
And like he wasn't jealous.
He was like laughing about it.
It's so hot.
Yeah.

Heather (58:39):
It's so hot.
I just say, I was stupid flirting with

Zoe (58:41):
this man.
And

Heather (58:42):
he's like, yeah, whatever.
The difference of like havinga boyfriend who's like.
Listening to your storyand is just there for it.
Rather than like, myex, I'd be like, yeah.
So I woke up today and he's like,who are you thinking about when
you woke up and what was your plan?
And I about you weren't in your bed?
And I'm like, okay, that'sliterally exhausting.

Zoe (58:59):
But yeah, it was a really fun trip.
Mm-hmm.
At the end of every night,I would call my boyfriend.
And your boyfriend is one for the

Heather (59:04):
girls.
He is.
He's a little sweetheart.
All of our boyfriends.
He's very sweet.
He really is.
Um, yeah.
So London, so good.
So proud of you.
Do you wanna go back?
Should we go?

Zoe (59:14):
I, I would go back.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think like we need to havea little bit more money and
then we shall go because Yeah.
It would've been so expensive if I hadto pay for a fucking hotel, like mm-hmm.
No way.

Heather (59:26):
And the flight there is so expensive and everything.
Yeah.
I think it was like two

Zoe (59:28):
grand for the flight in total.

Heather (59:31):
Coach.
Yeah.
Two grand coach.
Yeah.
Fuck off.
Yeah.
Why are you doing that?
Yeah.
Do you not want us to come?
I know.
Um, no, I'm really proud of you.
That's really good.
But it was easy.
Like flying

Zoe (59:41):
was really easy.
They just scanned my passport when I gotthere and like, I just went by so easy.
I was paranoid for nothing.
Which again, was like,okay, what's going on?
Why am I so stressed out about this?
Mm-hmm.
Like, let everything happen.
Let everything go.

Heather (59:56):
And on the plane, 'cause you know you're a big plane drinker.
Big airport drinker.
Mm-hmm.
Were you having any cravings atall when that bar cart comes by?
You look at it twice?
No, I was just too focused on sleeping.
Focused on sleep and sleep and sleep in.
Yeah.
Like nobody wake me up.
Nobody speak If you haveto pee, climb over me.
Yeah.
Climb over my body.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So good.
So proud of you.
Yeah, it was nice.

(01:00:17):
It's a big drinking culture over there.

Zoe (01:00:18):
It just got me like way more excited about going to Italy and Portugal now too.
I'm like, oh, who I know.
Am

Heather (01:00:24):
I?
I am a world traveler.
You dipped your toes in and yourboyfriend's going with you, so you
can be like, don't worry, we'regonna be sober the whole time.
Yeah.
Follow me kid.
Yeah, that's nice.
Yeah.
And then what the fuck am Igonna do when you're away?
I guess I'll just sit hereand wait for you to come home.
Maybe I'll go on a trip too.
Maybe I'll go on a trip.
I, I, yeah, I would like to go on a trip.
I wanna go to Greece, soI wanna go to somewhere.
Yeah, I'm alone.

(01:00:45):
Imagine.
I'll go visit Alexia.

Zoe (01:00:47):
Maybe you can go visit.
It would be cool if you popped overto Greece, popped over to Portugal.
It would be, I went toLondon to see my friend and.
God.
Like we took so many fuckingphotos of each other.
Perfect.
I was like, that was the best part.
Just like posing for photos.
I'm gonna be better at that.

Heather (01:01:04):
I'm gonna be better at

Zoe (01:01:04):
that.
Yeah.

Heather (01:01:04):
Because we'll take a lot of photos when we go on a trip.
For sure.
Yeah.
We gotta go on a trip soon.
Yeah.
Tell us where we should

Zoe (01:01:09):
go.
Where should we go?
Where do you wanna go?
Send us somewhere.
I mean, we could go to Montreal soon.
Yeah.
We could go to, but we are gonnago to Costa Rica in January.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Is it just us?
That's just us, right?
I think that's just us.
Thank

Heather (01:01:21):
God.
No boys allowed

Zoe (01:01:22):
the

Heather (01:01:22):
best.

Zoe (01:01:23):
Yeah.

Heather (01:01:23):
Okay.
Well I will see you tonight.
We have dinner.
We have dinner tonight with our team.
We're going to, can we say Yeah.
'cause there's come out later.
We're going to Buca I to Buca.

Zoe (01:01:32):
I haven't, I've only been to the King Street location, so I'm
excited to go to the Yorkville.
Um, I'll maybe we'll see everybody.

Heather (01:01:39):
Yeah.
Tomorrow at the event.
Yeah.
So this will have already comeout by the time, so, whew.
That event was exhausting.
Ooh.
It went so well.
We met so many of you and we love you all.
Oh my God.
I really hope a lot of them come.
They'll come.
I love you.
I love you.
Proud of you.
I'm proud of you.
I'm very proud of you.
Very proud of you too.
Good for you for going ona trip like that overseas.
No drinking.

(01:01:59):
Good for you.
That was nice.
And you are so cute and you aresuch a good friend and it was great.

Music (01:02:03):
Yeah.

Heather (01:02:03):
I'm so happy to come back to you in the city.
Don't ever go away again.

Zoe (01:02:07):
Fine.
I miss you.
Proud of you.
Proud of you guys.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye

Heather (01:02:17):
drunk.
Thanks for listening to Girl Un Drunk.
You can follow us on Instagram and TikTokat Girl Un Drunk podcast and or send
me an email at [e-mail].

Zoe (01:02:30):
Love.
Whoa.
That was good.
So good.
That felt like such a, weended it right on time.
Probably too.
Felt like such
a friendship pod.