It Was Instant: Part 1

Zoe shares Part 1 of her story, tracing how drinking became her way to fit in, feel free, and survive high school. From sneaking sips and throwing wild parties to getting arrested and smoking daily, she looks back on how alcohol became her escape—and how her early choices shaped what came next.

And thank you to Curious Elixirs for the samples! Use code UNDRUNK10 for $10 off your order of $50 or more.

This episode is also available on youtube. Watch here.

Get cozy, grab your fav NA beverage, and hit subscribe. Episodes come out every Wednesday. Proud of you! 💕

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This podcast covers sensitive topicsthat may be difficult for some listeners.
Please take care while listening.

(00:27):
Summer's here baby.
And speaking of which, we have ourspeaking of which we have a new little
mocktail, a new little mocktail.
Curious elixir.
This is so cute.
Curious Elixirs sent ussome little drinks to try.
They are.
Look how cute this little bottle is.
I feel like mine's cuter 'cause it's pink.
That's true.
I mean the brown is very chic.
Ow.
Oh, I feel like this goeswith my, she's herself.

(00:47):
I feel this goes with my little outfit.
It does go with your outfit.
These are so cute.
So mine is Sicilian blood orange spritz.
Mine's Roy Rose and fizzy lifting lime.
I mean, and this is great 'cause,so this is good for Zoe because
this is not like fake alcohol.
Yeah, not, it's not likeimitating a cocktail.
It's not like a virgin mojito.
It's his own, yeah.
Or own thing.

(01:08):
Like a DEA gin.
This is just basically like, whatdid you call it, like fancy juice?
It sounded, it kind tasted likekombucha when we tried it last week.
Yeah.
Carbonated filtered water, blood, orange,white, grape and lemon juice concentrates.
It's all great stuff.
Yeah.
Okay, so, so what they recommendto like you tip over twice?
Tip it over twice.
Okay.
And then I could have taken this off mine.

(01:30):
I haven't tried this one yet.
And so you can put it overice or you can just drink it.
But we have these cutie little,
how cute.
Oh, mine smells good.
Okay.
How many drinks can we have going?
Curious Alexas.
Let's try then.
Cheers babe.
Ooh, cheers.

(01:51):
Mm oh, okay.
Try.
I want be outside.
I know.
I wanna be outside too.
Ooh.
Ooh.
That one's like even haslike a more like Ooh to it.
Yeah.
Which I like because it reminds meof like taking a shot, you know?
Yeah.
I feel like this one, the,I like grapefruit juice.
I like very, like I kind of wantthis one, one tart things when

(02:14):
you like get to the cottage.
Mm. And you're like, this isthe first one I'm gonna drink.
And then that one I wannadrink in the sun, right?
Yeah.
Nice.
Okay.
Okay.
Love it.
So curious Elixirs use codeun drunk for $10 off order.
Over $50.
Is it $10 or 10%?
It's 10.
$10. Okay.
Yeah.
Hi everyone.
Quick note while recording.

(02:34):
Zoe and I messed up theCurious Elixirs code.
We said it was Undr, butthe actual code is un drunk.
10 for $10 off orders of $50 or more.
Yay.
And have your little summer drinks.
Summer drinks, summer drinks, summer mock.
So Summer Mosies.
I really do like this.
Okay.
I really do like it too.
Now it tastes like healthy but tasty.

(02:56):
It does.
I also like something that'slike, you can't chug it.
Like you have to just like sip it.
Yeah.
'cause it's spicy.
A little, not spicy, but like Herby Herby.
So it's like, it's theirwhole, it's a whole experience.
Yeah.
It's a whole mouth feel.
It's, you know, the mouth feel is amazing.
I know all about the mouth.
Feel.
Same Zoe.
What?
Zoe is up, are we doing Zoe?

(03:16):
Zoe?
Esmaralda.
Kahan.
How are Zoe?
Francis Kahan.
Oh, it's so cute.
Zoe Francis.
I like Esmeralda though.
My grandpa's name was Francis.
Do you think that you'rereincarnated as my grandpa and
you've come here to talk about sex?
Probably not.
Oh, no.
One time my grandpa saw.
Okay.
There was a woman when we weregrowing up in the nineties and she
was like a a, a white-haired lady.
Someone's gonna know her name.

(03:36):
She's Canadian.
There's also an American version of her,but she would be on TV talking about sex.
Okay.
In the early nineties.
So that was Canadian.
You said there was a Canadian oneand there was an American one.
Okay.
Whichever one.
And then my mom had the news on.
Mm-hmm.
And she switched it and there was a,a lady who kind of looked like her.
Maybe she was just like a whiter,A whiter, a white older woman.

(03:57):
Mm-hmm.
And my grandpa walked in the roomand was like, Ugh, I can't with her.
And like it wasn't even her.
Yeah.
It was just like another woman who likekind of looked like her and he is like,
oh, that woman on tv, I can't disgusting.
Oh my God.
He was so, and I was like, what we weretalking about And my mom was like, dad,
that is a woman who looks like her.
That's not even her.
Yeah.
Crazy.

(04:17):
And there's that woman, I didwatch her show because I was always
watching on like channel 4, 7, 8, 5.
It was like the sex channel.
Yeah.
But when you get home from school at3:00 PM there's nothing really sexual.
It's just like other stuff.
And so she would be on, andshe'd be telling you about dildos
and people would like call in.
I do not know who this woman is at all.
We gotta do a screening party.
Maybe we should get her on the pod.
I dunno if she's still alive.
I don't, don't know.

(04:38):
I mean, hopefully she'sstill having good sex.
If she is, I hope to be.
I hope to be.
I hope to eventually have good, I hopeto have good sex and then continue
having good sex for until I die.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or we might not, I'm gonna get quiet.
We might not die.
Yeah.
I feel like we're kind ofliving in a world where we are
gonna be the ones to not die.
Like there's gonna be some sort of weirdlike cryo chamber and they're gonna put us

(04:59):
all in there and they're gonna send us toPluto and then we're all gonna live there.
I just have a weird feeling about it.
I don't know.
I wanna die.
I don't wanna be here forever.
That seems like so intense.
No, my time will be doneat like, what did you say?
119? 120, 120. Make a round number.
Okay.
You know who loves to live forever.
Vampires.
And then they're constantly datinglike girls in high school and I'm like.

(05:22):
That seems problematic.
Guys, you're a thousand.
How is your mental health?
You're all over the place.
And whenever you start sayinga story, I'm like, where the
fuck is she gonna take this one?
I'm sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm sorry everybody.
I think I, I feel likeI wrapped it up though.
You did, but just like every new story,I'm like, okay, where are we gonna go?
I did not take myantidepressants this morning.

(05:43):
Okay.
That's what's going on.
My mental health is fine.
How is yours?
It's fine.
It's fine.
We hate that word.
Fine.
We do hate that word.
My mental health is, Imean, it's up and down.
I have a lot going on.
Yeah.
I'm working on myself.
I'm, I'm itm very stressed,but I am honestly good.
It's good.
Yeah.
I'm, I always feel betterwhen you're in, in this room.

(06:05):
Yeah.
I'm like always like, I don'teven know what was going on.
I feel good.
I feel a little bit stressed overallstill with like, everything, um, like.
Personal.
Yeah.
Shit that hasn't resolved.
No, nothing has resolved.
And like a new thinghappened in my life as well.

(06:26):
Yeah.
That I'm just like dealing with.
Yeah.
I was like, what?
And I'm just trying to figure outhow I'm going to go about it as well.
Um.
Mm-hmm.
So a lot, so just new obstacles, I guess.
Yeah.
But I had fun last night.
I went to the club.
She to the club last night.
Guys, you went to the club and I saw onyour Instagram story there was like bottle

(06:49):
service with those like sparklers in them.
And I was like, oh mygod, are we in Miami?
What is this?
Yeah.
Yep.
What was it?
Bar 44?
Yeah.
Well we were supposed to go toapartment 200 and then the birthday
girl arrived late and then the boothwas gonna be over a thousand dollars
and they originally quoted her $600.
Oh liar.
If you got there before 11.

(07:11):
So, and then she got there at like1130 girl and she was like, well I'm
not gonna pay a thousand dollars.
So we're all standing around beinglike, okay, well what are we gonna do?
And then another girl calledClub 44 and I think they ended
up paying $600 for two bottles.
Um Okay.
Which worked out.
It worked out.
That's fine.
Yeah.

(07:32):
Yeah, I would need to have abooth if I'm gonna go to the club.
Well that's why I, that'swhy I said yes to going.
Yeah.
Because I got told that there was abooth, so I was like, yeah, of course.
I'll go.
I love to sit.
Yeah.
I love to sit down.
If I was drinking, I would belike, oh, fuck it, I'll pay for it.
Yeah, yeah.
Pay my credit card.
And I'd like, Madam, this is declined.
Well, it was nice that like I wentand I didn't have to pay for anything.

(07:53):
Like when the bottle service girls cameover, I was just like, can you guys
bring over a Red Bull please, stat.
And then they did.
And I was like, thank you stat.
That's good.
I did feel like a little bit because it'sso chaotic getting into those places.
Yeah.
Everyone is like crowding around.
Everyone wants to get in.
So that was chaotic energy for me.
And I did feel a little bitstressed, but I think everybody

(08:13):
does, even if you're drinking or not.
Yeah.
And then when we got to the boothand I got the Red Bull in my hand,
I could like relax and have fun.
Just breathe.
Yeah.
Um, it does help having something in yourhand, you're like, now I'm part of it.
Really helps.
Yeah.
Idle hands.
Yeah.
Keep doing, you gotta putsomething in your hands.
But every one of.
My friend's, friends I waswith could like shake ass.

(08:35):
Mm-hmm.
So they were shaking ass and I was like,God, I don't have any ass for this.
My ass be's tiny compared to you guys.
That's tiny.
However.
What if you got up higher on something,maybe a table, and then you're farther
away so it looks more powerful.
Right.
It could also look smaller.
Also, this club, they didn't allowyou to go out and back in, so I

(08:56):
couldn't leave to have a cigarette.
That's a hostage situation.
Yeah.
So I texted my boyfriend that and hewas like, that sounds like a prison.
You can't go out and come back in.
No.
You know too much.
It's like a Diddy party.
I know.
Well, and then I'm like so jealous of thepeople who are vaping in those situations.
'cause I'm like, Ugh, I wish I just vaped.
And then everyone waseverything in the club.
Yeah.
And then everyone was likesmoking joints in the club.

(09:18):
And I was like, okay.
Is crazy.
Is that if I, that's thesecond time this has happened.
Remember we went to thebar to watch the game?
Yeah.
And someone was rolling ajoint, like down the Yeah.
I was like, well they weresmoking joints inside.
Yeah.
So I was like, is it crazyif I light a cigarette?
And they were like, yeah, it is crazy.
It's a different smell.
And I'm like, Ugh.
It's different.
It's a different smell.
It's smoke way better smoke drugs inthe club, but I can't smoke a cigarette.

(09:40):
It's sad.
Yeah.
I honestly think cigarette, well,I don't really know, but cigarettes
are, they can't be as bad as foryou as like fucking binge drinking.
Yeah.
And like, I don't know, also smoking weed.
It's like, I don't know.
Inside it's a lot.
It's still like smokey.
Yeah.
You know, I probably gotsecondhand high last night.
Doesn't count.

(10:02):
Doesn't count.
I just go hang out.
I hang outside of, um, smoke shops andI try to get the feelings of it all.
Yeah.
I just feel a little bit anxiousand a lot of the things happening
in my life are not in my control andthat stresses me out as an addict.
So,
yeah.
I'm probably, I'm gonna givemyself, last week we were a four.

(10:25):
Yeah.
I'm gonna give myself like a five.
Okay.
I think I'm like a, today, inthis moment I'm like a seven, but
if I reflect on the week Yeah.
I'm a 4, 4,
5. Yeah.
But I'm, I'm feeling we're slightly gut.
I'm feeling positive, like I'mfeeling, I'm feeling positive.
Optimistic about the future.
However, I do wanna say this.
I was thinking about this in theshower where I have all my thoughts.

(10:45):
I will say that, speaking of what youjust said, feeling stressed and not
affecting your sobriety, the state of theworld, this is not a political podcast.
The state of the worldis so scary right now.
It has been for the past few years,honestly, since fucking 2016.
But recently, it's just getting, it's, itfeels like it's getting worse and worse.

(11:06):
And I think sometimes as addicts, wecan kind of go different ways with it.
We can kind of be like,well, fuck it then.
If you're gonna just blow up thiscountry, then why am I fucking sober?
Like there's no, it's so big.
This is so small.
Who gives a fuck?
I don't know.
I, you are so much moreinto the elements than I am.

(11:27):
I am.
Like, I don't, I can't.
I can't be bothered to like know.
Right.
And that's good.
You know I got my nose in the news.
Yeah, you do.
I've got my nose in the news.
I am very affected by things.
Yeah.
And so for other people that are veryaffected by things like me, I think I,
I think when everything is so chaoticsometimes it feels like I'm insignificant.
Literally who cares?
This is bullshit also,it's painful to watch.

(11:49):
It's painful to see.
It's really fucking scary.
And don't look,
that's not why.
Well, that is not a great like solution.
'cause like you kind, some peoplereally have to know what's going on.
They wanna know, itmakes them feel better.
But in terms of sobriety, ifyou're feeling like that, like
it's just so overwhelming.
It's so stressful.
Yeah.
It seems like it's overwhelmingfor you and it's stressful

(12:09):
for you to watch all of this.
Yeah.
And keeping your nose in itthen like, take a step back.
There's really not anything thatyou can do to control who, who
Trump's gonna bomb or not, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Like you knowing thatisn't gonna solve anything.
But what I am saying as like,yeah, this is also stressful
and if you are like me Yeah.
I am a person who, this is probablynot true, but for me, I feel safer

(12:33):
when I know everything I know.
Got it.
Like when there's stuff going on inmy family and they don't talk about
it, I'm like, Hey, what's happening?
Yeah.
Like I can't do that.
It scares the fucking shit out of me whenpeople are just like, everything is fine.
Yeah.
So I have to, but that makes sense.
If you are feeling really stressedout, if you're feeling really
like doom, like this feels likedoom Sobriety is your consistency.

(12:55):
Yeah.
Like if you just stay sober, don't pickup like you just are like everything
is going everywhere all the time.
But I know that I'm so, and like that'swhat you can kind of like lean into.
Yeah.
I think that's helpful to be like,I can control this one thing.
Yeah.
Like I know that I'm sober andnothing is gonna affect it.
I'm done.
Well, and also like theworld has always been shit.

(13:15):
You know?
Like there's, every year there'ssomething else that's like shit.
Yeah.
It's not like the worldwas perfect two years ago.
Like it's always beenshit since I was born.
Yeah.
But this is the, this is thefirst time it's really been shit.
Yeah.
Since I got sober.
Yeah.
So like if, you know, if you'relike in this situation where like
you're just getting sober now andyou're like, why would I be sober?
This is insane.

(13:36):
Yeah.
There is a reason and it'sjust for you to feel your calm,
feel yourself in this world.
It's gonna be okay.
Yeah.
Touch some grass, touch some grass,drink a water, drink a curious elixir.
$10 left, $10 off yourorder for $2 or more.
Um, yeah, but that's just what I wantedto say because I've been feeling sad for

(13:58):
all of my little addicts running aroundjust being like, trying to, I, and I think
as addicts too, we feel really deeplyand it's, it's really hard to see what's
going on and, but we all feel like that.
And it's, yeah.
You know, it's not good, but it issomething and we just gotta stay sober.
I think just like focusingon yourself and mm-hmm.
You really can control everythingthat's happening to you.
You can only control whatyou're gonna do about it.

(14:20):
Yeah.
And how you're gonna reactto the world around you.
That's it.
That's it.
You can only, you can onlycontrol how you react to things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's all.
And that's it.
And that's all.
See you next week.
Bye.
Alright.
Just kidding.
We have a podcast to do.
We have a podcast to do.
How you doing Zoe?
I'm feeling good.
You ready to go?
Let's do it.
Okay.
Let's tell my story.

(14:41):
So last week we talked about my story.
Yeah.
And it's funny 'cause like watching itback and looking back, I'm like, wow,
my drinking doesn't start until like.
56 minutes in and it'slike, it's so funny.
'cause I'm like, oh my God,this is a sobriety podcast.
Yeah.
Why am I not talking?
But then I'm like, wait,wait, wait for me personally.
Yeah.
All of that stuff Yeah.

(15:03):
Led to, led to it.
Yeah.
And I think that ourstories are a bit different.
Yeah.
But I just, all of your stories are valid.
Like, I just feel likestory I'm judging myself.
Yeah.
In like, in the rooms, in sobriety,every one story is so different.
Yeah.
But like, I relate to your story.
Mm. You relate to my story.

(15:24):
Yeah.
Um, even though it's like it's very farapart and different, we still know how
each other we're feeling in those moments.
Yeah.
Because we felt that way too.
Yeah.
And like whether it's likedeep, deep trauma Yeah.
Or like, or like visual traumaor it's just like in your heart.
Yeah.
It, it affects everyone so differently.
And so I think it's important to be like.

(15:45):
It kind of doesn't matter what'shappened to you, you got here.
Yeah.
And like, that's validand that's important.
But yeah, I have told my story before ina meeting and that was like very scary.
And I'm definitely gonna tell it betternow because I'm way more comfortable
with you and not saying it in frontof like, hun a hundred people.
Yeah.
Some that I know, some I don't.

(16:06):
So I am, uh, excited.
I wonder how much you'llknow about I know my story.
I was thinking about it this morning too.
I'm like, where did this all start?
Like Yeah, I know, I knowthat you've, you went crazy.
Go nuts.
Yeah.
In co in college.
I know you were a little crazygoing nuts in high school.
Yeah.
But I'm like, what?

(16:27):
How did it get you?
Why did it get you?
I think it was pretty instant for me.
Yeah.
Like this first time I drank,I got blackout and I chased
that blackout ever since.
Like, it was a very immediate thing.
Like most normal people would.
Get blackout and like be reallyscared about that, you know, and say,
I don't wanna ever do that again.

(16:48):
Especially their first time,especially their first time.
And not for me.
I was like, oh my God, that was amazing.
I have no idea what happened last night.
That's so fun.
I'm so exciting.
And probably not sick.
Yeah.
Right.
Not yet.
Not at that age.
Not, of course not.
No.
But like growing up I felt justlike a little bit different

(17:09):
from every one in my family.
My parents were always like,you're the creative one.
Mm-hmm.
You're like, uncle, my uncle, well I'm notgonna say his name, you're like my uncle.
Um, you're creative, you'redifferent from the family.
Mm-hmm.
And I think when I was younger,I really didn't think that

(17:29):
word different meant good.
'cause different wasn't normal.
Oh, okay.
So I felt like, oh, I'm different.
Oh, I'm not.
I don't fit in then.
Mm-hmm.
Like you're telling me I don't fit in'cause I'm a different creative person.
And what were they talking about whenthey were saying you were creative?
What were you doing?
I think just like my interest inphotography, my figure skating like okay.

(17:49):
Dance, like very, Iliked drawing, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Like I was just, yeah.
Leaning more.
My parents
are all mathematical people.
They're financial advisors, so they'relike, oh, this isn't, I don't know this,
this is my uncle was a DJ and great,um, he performs at Burning Man a lot,
so he's like, he's one of those so cool.

(18:12):
They me, them calling me differentand like, my uncle kind of made
me feel not great, you know?
I was like, okay, so I don'tfit in with you guys then.
Yeah.
I'm something different.
And my uncle lives in SanFrancisco, so how am I gonna like,
yeah.
Be conjoined with him then, you know?
Yeah.
It felt like a little bit of an outsider,um, within my family in that way.

(18:35):
Mm-hmm.
Um, my parents did split up for maybelike a year when I was four or five,
and I do remember those moments andI think it must have affected me like
more than I could know, to be honest.
Like, if I did therapy, I'dprobably like go into that.
Yeah.
And how it has affected me.
Mm-hmm.
Because I do remember early moments ofjust like fighting and not great dynamics.

(19:02):
Okay.
So at four years old, like youremember feeling that in the house?
Yeah.
Like you knew there was tense?
Well, I remember when my parents gotback together, we got a new house and my
grandma asked me like how I was feeling.
Like I remember this atfour or five years old.
And I told her like, I feel good becausemy parents aren't fighting anymore.
Like, mommy and daddyaren't fighting anymore.
That's so sad.

(19:22):
I know.
So.
Even though I don't fullyremember them actually fighting.
I remember me saying that.
Yeah.
So it must have been like, I mean,pretty traumatic for a young kid.
Kids hear everything.
Kids know everything.
Like when I would go to bed,they would think I was asleep.
I'm not sleeping.
I'm like listening to youguys watching TV downstairs.
I'm like listening to pots and pans.
Like, we hear everything,you know, just go to bed.

(19:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's what they would tellme a lot is to like, just go into my room.
Just go into my room so they could fight.
Um, and at my dad's, when my mom anddad were separated for that year, my
dad had a condo or an apartment, and Iremember that's where I took my first sip.
Of beer because I thoughtit was apple juice.
How old were you?
Like four or five.

(20:05):
Four or five.
Okay.
Um, and I remember like drinking it and Iwas like, daddy, that's not apple juice.
He's like, no, that's my beer.
And you were like, I love it.
Oh, I love this though.
So that's where I had my first drink.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Um, but then other than that, likegreat childhood, grew up in Oakville.
Um, like my family was a good family.

(20:28):
Mm-hmm.
I spent a lot of time with my grandparents'cause I'd go to their house after
school, so I was very close with them.
When your parents split upand got back together mm-hmm.
Was there ever a conversation with youand your brother about like, this is
what's happening and dad's coming back?
I think like, no.
I,

(20:48):
they must have had a conversation with us.
I don't remember that conversation.
Yeah.
And I don't think anyone inthe family really talked about
it until maybe I was like.
12 or 13.
Mm-hmm.
I got told that that even happened andI was like, oh yeah, that did happen.
Yeah.
Like it definitely wasn't athing that was talked about.
Yeah.
Even now, like we nevertalk about that boat.
Like what's there to talk about, you know?
Yeah.
My parents do seem happy and theytravel the world together, which is

(21:11):
like, they just need a little break.
They just needed.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think, I don't know what was going on.
I think maybe just likethe kids of it all.
Yeah.
Things change.
Things change.
Having like two young kids,what, two under four is a lot.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Maybe my mom was stressed.
Maybe something happenedthat I don't know.
Who knows?
Who knows.

(21:32):
Postpartum?
Yeah.
Maybe.
Who knows?
Yeah.
But I'm glad that they figured it out.
Mm-hmm.
And they seem good now.
That's good.
Um, do they kiss?
No.
That's interesting.
I've seen them kiss one time.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
I don't love that.
I don't love that either.
My parents would kiss like.
My godmother and her husband kiss allthe time and are very affectionate.

(21:54):
Which I like that.
I like that too.
You know, it, it's cool.
It shows that it's normal too.
It's not like somethinghidden from the world.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so Oakville was great.
I started figure skating.
I loved my coach.
Mm-hmm.
I would say like my coach wassomeone I really loved and I was

(22:14):
really close with my grandparents.
'cause I spent, I spent the most timewith my coach and my grandparents.
My parents would likepick me up from skating.
We'd have dinner and then we'd go to bed.
Um, that's the best, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you would sleep at their house?
I would sleep at myparents' house, but Okay.

(22:35):
After school, I'd go to mygrandparents' house and then
go to skating and then go home.
But whatever.
True.
Um.
Yeah, I had a really good childhood.
My best friend growingup lived right beside me.
Mm-hmm.
So we would build forts togetherand play sims all day long and
watch friends all day long.

(22:57):
I gotcha.
She was really into Harry Potter.
It was like, it was really fun.
Yeah.
To grow up beside someonewho's your best friend.
Just like always have her there.
Um, and then in grade eight I wastold that we're gonna move to Sarnia.
Okay.
At this point I was like, Idon't, I do never wanna do drugs.

(23:18):
Like when DARE came to the school andlike grade seven, I was like, oh, okay.
I will never do drugs.
I'll never drink alcohol.
I'm gonna be such a good girl.
It is.
The craziest dare is so crazy.
They're basically like, so ifyou do drugs, you will die.
And it's like, there's so muchthat happens before you do drugs.
There's peer pressure,there's like curiosity.
There's kids, there'slike a frontal lo connect.
So exists.

(23:39):
In the States?
I think it does.
Okay.
Interesting.
I don't know what we have here.
We have like a version of maybethey're still there, but Yeah.
It's always, it's so growingup and learning big lessons at
school, at assembly was so crazy.
Yeah.
It was like someone wouldcome in with no legs.
Yeah.
Because they like werehit by a drunk driver.
Yeah.
Or someone would come in with like HIV.
Yeah.
And we were all like, I'mter everyone, all of us in

(23:59):
class, were like, that's fear.
We're gonna get aids.
Yeah.
Like it's very traumatizing.
Very traumatizing.
Anyways.
So like at this point I waslike loving figure skating.
I was never gonna do drugs.
I think I even wrote to my dad ona piece of paper when I was like in
grade seven, like, I promise I'llnever drink, I'll never do drugs.
You know, like I was very.

(24:21):
Mm-hmm.
Pure at this.
Was there point anybody aroundyou at this time who was drinking?
Well, I think my dad would drink a lot.
Okay.
When we'd go on family vacations,I could see him like, switch.
Okay.
And like get really drunk.
And I didn't like how he acted and that'swhy I was like, I'm never gonna drink.
Was know angry or stupid orhow did he Both probably.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know.

(24:42):
Um, and so when I got told thatI'm moving to Sarnia in grade
eight, like for high school, I wasgonna start high school in Sarnia.
I was like, absolutely not.
I will not be going to Sarnia.
I'll, how far is.
It's like three hours.
Yeah.
Two and a half hours.
You're meeting all of your friends.
Yeah.
Best friends.
And I was supposed to start highschool in Oakville with all my

(25:04):
friends that I have known forever.
Yeah.
Like how am I gonna do that?
And were your friends good kids?
Were they doing drugs or drinking or No.
Second dick?
No.
No, not yet.
No, not yet.
Yeah.
Grade nine they would all start.
But in grade eight wewere all very pure still.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And um, I even told my parents like,no, I don't wanna move to Snia.

(25:26):
I wanna stay with my grandparents.
Yeah.
Live with them for four years so I cankeep skating in Oakville with my coach.
And then I knew that I wanted to go touniversity in Toronto, so I was like,
just keep me in Oakville guys, please.
Mm-hmm.
Like, no, you're coming with us.
Ah.
And I was like really upset.
So I think at this point I already hadlike a resentment to them, obviously.

(25:50):
Yeah.
That they were taking me to Sarnia.
And I imagine too, when you're akid, they're not asking you, they're
telling you we're going, right?
Yeah.
And like that's, that's, youdon't have autonomy when you're a
kid and you're like, I, nothing.
Nothing I do matters.
Nothing.
I say matters.
You're going to take me at your own will.
That's how it works.
Yeah.
It really didn't feel good at all.
And I think like.

(26:11):
Like Oakville is so close to Toronto.
I would take the train to Toronto all thetime to go shopping or go to concerts with
my friends at grade seven and grade eight.
Like I was taking the trainwith my friends to the city.
Woo.
Yeah.
Oh my.
I was a cool kid.
That's actually really cool.
Do you feel so cool?
I felt so cool when Iwas doing that, for sure.
Yeah.
I remember taking the bus down tothe RTO center with my friend Sarah.

(26:34):
Yeah.
And it was like, it's so scary.
But it's just like the city box andis a half an hour and then you get
off and you're like, not downtown.
I know.
Like I loved it and I alwaysloved the city, so I always
knew I was gonna be here.
Mm-hmm.
And then we go to Sarnia tolook at houses and I'm like,
we're in the middle of nowhere.
Like this sucks.

(26:54):
And.
Yeah, it was just like reallyscary to start high school there.
Um, the skating program in Sarnia was notgreat, so we had to drive to Strathroy,
which is like 45 minutes to get there.
Okay.
And 45 minutes to come home.
Like, I went there I thinkthree or four times a week.
Wow.
Yeah.
For a skating and like, that'sa lot of on, on my mom driving

(27:16):
me back and forth, you know?
Why did you guys move?
My parents got a new job, like Okay.
Got an opportunity to work for themselves.
Okay.
As financial advisors for a company.
Oh, okay.
Based out of Sarnia.
Um, like now knowing everything, yeah.
Was a great opportunity for them.
Of course they were gonna takeit like now I can see that.

(27:37):
But yeah.
Hindsight 2020 in that moment I waslike, you guys are awful ruining my life.
Your jobs are fine in Oakville.
Yeah.
Relax.
Yeah.
Like, just let me do this.
Yeah.
And then you can do whateveryou want in four years.
Like jobs.
Yeah.
And I remember my dad was like,oh, I moved so much as a kid.
I moved like 12 times.
Um, and you, before I went to highschool, like, you can handle it.

(28:01):
I was like, uh, I don't wanna,I don't wanna have to handle it.
No.
You know?
Um, so I think when I startedhigh school, I was just really
set on being like the cool kid.
'cause I was excited to like go tohigh school to have that high school

(28:21):
experience and be cool and have fun.
Okay.
Tell me about that.
Yeah.
You're going to high school in Sarnia.
Yeah.
It's day one.
Mm-hmm.
I'm assuming you either take ashower, take a shower the night
before you take a shower, themorning of, what are you thinking?
I, I'm gonna be cool.
I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna do.
Well, I was just like, okay.
Me and my brother had a bet on like, whocould bring their first friend home first.

(28:46):
Oh.
Oh
my God.
Like, who?
Oh God, guys I know.
Like who was gonna have a friendthat came over to the house first?
Mm-hmm.
I
think I did win, but the friendthat I brought over ended up
not being a good girl at all.
You're like, I'm just trying to win thebe, I'm just trying to win the bet, guys.
Um, so I don't know.
I went into my classes tryingto talk to people, I guess.

(29:07):
Oh, you did?
Okay.
And I think I was just tellingeverybody that I was new.
So you weren't painfully shy?
I wasn't, no.
I was just like, I felt verynervous, but I could do it.
Like, I could put on aperformance if I had to, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
And I did, and I made a few friends, butagain, like I probably didn't feel like

(29:32):
I fit in because all those people kneweach other for so many years before then.
Yeah.
Like they all grew up together and nowI'm the odd, one new one coming in.
Sarnia is also on the water.
Right?
Yeah.
So it's also, it's a differentculture in Sarnia than it is.
I feel like the late culture is sodifferent than like the city, you know?
Yeah.
And I think that just like they all,everyone had the clique already because

(29:54):
they all grew up together and I'mjust coming in not knowing anything.
Yeah.
Or knowing anybody.
And I don't know why I wanted to fit in sobadly and why I had the mindset of fitting
in equals going out and like partying.

(30:16):
You know?
I don't know why I. I think it'sconnected those two together.
I think it's safety, right?
Yeah.
It's like you wanna be, you wannabe a part of what everyone's doing.
Yeah.
You don't wanna be left out.
You just, it's safer to be part ofit and if you wanna party mm-hmm.
It's like, I wanna do that.
How do I get there?
Mm-hmm.
So you have to do all this work?
Yeah.
First.
So I think like, I kind of floppedaround friend groups a bit.

(30:38):
Mm-hmm.
Until like, I found the coolones that like drank and smoked.
Okay.
And how did you findyourself in that situation?
In, in that friend group?
Like, did you walk over or did you Ithink I was just like l like I had a
group of friends and then I built it up.
I went up the social chain a bit.

(30:59):
Okay.
You know, with the friendsthat I was, I was like kind of
using them to like level up.
Yeah.
In a way.
Yeah.
Survival.
Survival.
And then I made it, and I rememberwe went to this girl's house and.
They all had a little bit of boozein each, like water bottle that
they stole from their parents.
I don't think I stole anyparent, any booze from my parents

(31:21):
on that first time I drank.
Yeah.
But there was like enough to, didyou know that becoming friends with
these people you were gonna drink or?
I don't think so.
Okay.
I don't think I had that click untilthat night when I was like, surrounded by
all this booze and I was like, oh, okay.
This is what we're doing.
I guess this is what we do.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then like we were all preyingbefore we went out to a beach party.

(31:45):
Okay.
So you drank.
Yeah.
And was this the firsttime since you were four?
Yeah.
You drank?
Yeah.
Okay.
Were you scared?
No.
Absolutely not.
Happy to be there.
I was just happy to be there and I waslike, Hey, this is what everyone's doing.
Let's go.
Yeah.
And yeah, I, I drank a lotbecause I wanted to be cool.
Yeah.
I find the flip interesting, right?

(32:05):
Yeah.
The autonomy and the confidence ofbeing in eighth grade and being like.
Dad, I don't.
Or seventh grade.
Yeah.
I don't wanna drink, I'mnever gonna do drugs.
Yeah.
To ninth grade being like no oneeven really had to pressure you.
You just were like in thesis like in the situation.
Yeah.
And you were like, ohyeah, I'll do it too.
We're, this is what we'redoing, we're all going.
I know it's such a flip soquickly, but it's, I think it was

(32:28):
a little bit of a survival thing.
What are you gonna do?
Not drink, get left online.
Yeah.
What am I gonna do?
Be a loser and stay home?
I don't know.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, as soon as I did likedrink a lot that night and I went
to this beach party and I made itwith my friend's, older brother
Hot.
And I was like, oh my God.
I would never do that if I was sober.

(32:49):
Like, that is so cool that I drank thisthing and it let me do this cool thing and
I feel so powerful and elite and popular.
This is interesting to me.
Yeah.
So.
Not remembering making out with a guy.
Mm-hmm.
That's cool to you.
Yeah.
That's that's not, that's not scaryor embarrassing or people are gonna

(33:11):
talk about it tomorrow or what.
I think people were like kindof like, happy that I did it.
Okay.
They're like, oh my God, Ican't believe you did that.
Okay.
And I was like, oh my God, I did.
So you're having positivereinforcement from other people.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
And I think that's just like ever sinever, uh, that's what I was chasing.
I was chasing that feeling.
I mean, you fucking madea splash, didn't you?

(33:32):
I really did.
Yeah.
And, and it worked.
It, yeah.
But like, that was probablythe one and only time that it
really did, like, feel good.
I think quickly afterthat it went downhill.
To be honest, I remember like maybethe fourth time I went out to a party,
I was, I came home and my dad madesome sort of comment at me, like being

(33:55):
like, oh, this is gonna be a problem.
And God, he was rightbecause you were drunk.
Because like, I maybe was like s.Still drunk from that last night.
Oh shit.
And I was just like, being ridiculousor like being super hung over
and he was like, oh God, thislike, you're gonna be a problem.
You're like, bitch, you have no idea.
That was only the beginning.

(34:15):
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, I think from the momentI drank, like I drank to get drunk and
I didn't drink like a normal person.
So yeah.
It was like more of anautomatic thing for me.
How did it taste to you?
I didn't care.
Okay.
You know?
Yeah.
Like I would drink anything.
Yeah.
And I think, um, quick, like the same timealcohol was introduced, smoking cigarettes

(34:40):
and smoking weed were introduced as well.
Um, I think in gr from grade 10 on, Ieither was drinking or smoking weed.
Yeah.
Every single day.
Whoa.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so that looks like you're gonnato your friend's house after school.

(35:02):
That means like during lunch, I'm smokingweed with the stoner kids in 10th grade.
Yeah.
And did you get in trouble for that?
I mean, I would get in trouble likefrom my parents or from the school?
The school.
I don't really remember getting introuble from the school that much.
We back then yeah.
Was like heroin.

(35:23):
Yeah.
Like people were, I mean it was,it seemed to everyone as dangerous.
Yeah.
Like it was, yeah.
I mean fear, I went to a publicschool, so maybe it was just like
more like chill lax, I don't know.
The public schools were so gangster.
Yeah, so gangster.
Yeah.
Like we were, I mean our schoolwas like full of bullshit.
Yeah.
But we were like at a Christian school.
Yeah.

(35:43):
So it like looked really gorgeous.
Whereas like you drive past thepublic schools and like everyone is
smoking outside and like, oh man.
Yeah.
And like I think in grade 11.
So I got into this friend group maybe,and granted 10 or 11, and there was
like four of us, and we all made a pactthat we were all gonna throw a party.
My friend, one of my friends wentfirst, she had a rager at her house.

(36:08):
It was great.
And then I had to do it next, andthen I had a party at my house.
Mm-hmm.
And it was wild, I think at9:00 PM It was after homecoming.
So the football happens andthen I Well, you guys did that.
Yeah, because Sarnia is a bordercity, so like we did a lot of
football, homecoming things.

(36:29):
Oh, so
fun.
And I remember I was so drunk athomecoming going along, going around
to everybody saying, come to my party.
Come to my party.
Come to my party.
No.
And then everyone came to my party.
Someone's dad's gonna show up.
I really think that thiswas in grade 10, by the way.
Okay.
I think this is grade 10.

(36:49):
Okay.
You had a year to kind offigure out Maybe grade 11.
I had this homecoming party.
And 9:00 PM 9:00 PM It was packed.
I had a routine at this party.
I would tell the most popular kid inhigh school was in charge of the music
and I would scream at him to turn itdown 'cause it was way too loud and

(37:10):
I was trying to control this thing.
So I'd be like.
Fucking turn down the music.
He would.
And then I would go outsideand bring everybody inside.
Yeah.
Because if they were outside, the noisetraveled more and I already got a text
that like, you could hear my partyfrom three blocks away to the park.
I was gonna say, if you're close to thewater, it'll carry over the whole week.
Yeah.
So everyone could hear this thing.

(37:31):
And my parents were out of townand I didn't want anybody to know,
so I was like really anxious andtrying to do this the right way.
I threw like blanketsover expensive stuff.
I rolled up an expensive rug,like a responsible queen.
I was trying my best.
Yeah.
But like it turned to shit.
And then after I rallied everyoneout from outside, then I would
go to the garage where everyonehad a, to like lined up for me.

(37:54):
So, and then I would do abong hit nice and have a shot.
What was that called?
I think they called it a wombat.
You'd do a bong and then take ashot or maybe the other way around.
Shot.
Then bong.
God.
You know the word we would, theword would go around cross faded.
I'm so cross faded.
Cross faded, and I was never crossfaded when I would pretend I was.
Yeah.
I was so cross faded.
Fucking loser nerd.

(38:16):
Yeah.
But then I would do that again.
I did that probably five times.
Like yell at the music guy,bring everybody inside.
Whenever I'd go to the garage, all theguys would have like a to ready for me.
I would be like, thank you so much.
I'm going as you should.
And then by like maybe 10, 30, 11, myfriend's parents were there and mm-hmm.

(38:41):
Were screaming at all thesekids going, get the fuck out.
Get the fuck out.
Is this friend one of yourfriends from your group of Yeah.
Okay.
That little pact that that little, okay.
That pact like had changed like throughouthigh school I was friends with different
packs of girls, but yeah, that waslike really scary that they were there.

(39:02):
And did they yell at you?
They yelled at everybody and theysaid that the cops were coming
and then everyone scurred away.
Everyone drove home on my,my brother's bikes and things
were stolen, shoes were left.
I slept at that friend's house that nightand I was just like terrified for my

(39:24):
parents to get home that next morning.
Okay.
Um, before you had this party, you were,were you thinking like, it'll be fine?
Yeah.
I'm gonna clean up.
Yeah.
Everything's gonna be totally kosher.
Well, I don't think I expectedthat many people to show up.
Like truly when I was walking throughmy house, it was like shoulder
to shoulder and my house was big.
You're so young too.
Yeah.

(39:44):
It's like, how am I gonna control this?
Yeah, honest.
And then my parents were so mad.
I had to clean, I had to carpet stayin the house because someone puked.
I had to find all my brother's bikes.
I had to text all these guys beinglike, where did you put my bikes?
Blah, blah, blah.
Holy shit.
It was a shit show.
And I think that's probably the firsttime that I got like in trouble.

(40:08):
And I think that's the first time myparents really knew what you were doing.
What I was doing.
Yeah.
I think they had a clue maybe.
But after that they knew forsure like how crazy I was.
I always wondered like the kidswho would have these fucking rages
at their houses or even like, notsuper crazy, but crazy enough.
Yeah.
I'm like, your parents went outof town, but I know you as a kid.

(40:32):
Yeah, I know you are nuts, not you.
Yeah.
Just people.
And I'm like, why wouldyour parents go outta town?
Yeah.
And leave you here.
I know.
Unsupervised and like maybe there'slike really nothing you can do
when your kid's like 17, 16.
Yeah.
But it's like.
If I, if I know my kid and I know thatthey're like a sneaky weasel mm-hmm.
I'm probably like havinggrandma come sleepover.

(40:53):
We didn't have any family in Sarnia.
Well then I wouldn't have moved to Sarnia.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that was crazy.
And when they were yelling at you Yeah.
Are you like terrified?
I was pretty terrified.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was pretty terrified, but I thinkthat's when I was like, okay, it's fine.

(41:14):
Like I'm only like grounded for two weeks.
It's gonna be okay.
Um, and people wrote that on theyearbook as like, the best memory
of high school was my party.
So like guys, it was kind of worth it.
Worth it?
Yeah.
Like.
That's insane.
You know, I also think likeyelling at kids is really crazy

(41:34):
when they're literally, I mean, ifthey're doing something crazy sure.
But like, if they're justlike at a party Yeah.
And bumping and drinking, it'slike, I know, but when this in
your house, it's like, fuck no.
No, for sure.
Yeah.
But then like for her parents tocome in, like yell at everybody,
I'm like, what's the yelling?
I guess to get everybody out.
To get everybody out.
But what's the like you haveto yell to control like fucking
hundreds of drunk 16 year olds.

(41:55):
Yeah.
Oh, I guess that's it, right?
Yeah.
You can't have drunk kids in yourhouse or like your liability.
Well, also, um, like it took years,my parents would still find like we
would smoke like in the water bottles.
Mm-hmm.
Like the, I don't even remember howwe would call it the bucket systems.
Mm-hmm.
They were finding water bottles foryears after that party in the backyard.

(42:17):
Oh my God.
But that was the first time that Ithink I ever like got in trouble for it.
Okay.
And that's when like every, theyall knew what I was doing because.
The weed of it all, thedrinking of it all, whatever.
Yeah.
The grandness of it all.
Yeah.
Like there's so many people in thishouse and you're like, holy shit.
What happened?
Yeah.
And when you went back to school thenext day or on the Monday, was it

(42:38):
like, oh fuck yeah, I had a party?
I think so.
Okay.
I think it was pretty like, fuck yeah.
And that's who you care about?
Yeah.
Like you care about your friendsthinking you're cool, you care about the
people at school thinking you're cool.
I don't care about myfamily at this point.
Like, you move, you took me to Sarnia,I hate you guys, and now I'm in trouble.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I'm re a little, a lotof it is retaliation, I think.

(42:58):
Totally makes sense.
Um, retaliation, wanting to fitin, wanting to be cool, but then it
just, like, it took me, like alcoholtook me and it didn't let me go.
I couldn't, one day I woke upand I just like couldn't stop it.
Okay.
Do you.
When you're saying I'm drinking every day.

(43:19):
Yeah.
Are you drinking to excess everyday or are you like having a
few beers with your friends?
Like what is the drinking level?
Yeah, probably like a few.
I'm probably not getting wasted.
Wasted every single day.
Okay.
But, um, there was like a few monthswhere like I would steal my parents
booze at this point and my friendswould steal their parents' booze.
My friend's mom like, made wineand had a bunch of like wine

(43:46):
that she made in her basement.
So she brought a wine bottleto class, to school like every
day for maybe a few months.
And we would just drink ittogether in the stall on lunch.
At school.
At school.
Just so cool.
Just like chug it back mm-hmm.
Together during lunch.
I wouldn't really eat like this islike, I didn't have an eating disorder.

(44:06):
All my friends around mehad an eating disorder.
I would just like forget to eat.
Mm-hmm.
And like, because I was too focusedon drinking that, I was just like,
oh yeah, yeah, I guess I need toeat food now that I'm hung over.
Like I just, it wasn't anactive thing that I was doing.
It just wasn't,
yeah.
I wasn't worried about eating food.
I was worried about drinking alcohol.
Yeah.
And smoking weed.

(44:26):
Hmm.
Um, so this is where, soyou would drink at lunch?
I would drink at lunch.
Like sometimes.
Okay.
Like, I think this was like aphase of like a couple months
that we did that every day.
And then I think she got a reallybad eating disorder and had to go
to treatment for it, to be honest.
Dang.
Yeah.
A lot of, I knew a lot of people inSarnia that had committed suicide.

(44:49):
Like it's a big thing in reallySarnia, like I knew personally,
I think three girls who committedsuicide in high school and like
eating disorders were a huge thing.
Yeah.
I remember I sat with my friends whilewe were praying to go to a party and
they were all cutting themselves Oh.

(45:11):
While we were drinking.
And I was like, Hey, I guessI'm gonna cut myself out.
Like, I guess that's what we're doing.
If I walk into a house, I'mdoing what you're doing.
Yeah.
Like if we're drinking, if we're smokingcrack, if we're, I don't know, whatever
we're doing, um, taxidermy, I'm doing it.
So I like cut myself a littlebit on my inner thigh and I was
like, okay, this isn't for me.
And then I just like, yeah, no.

(45:31):
Okay.
I still have like the tiny scarand I'm like, you fucking idiot.
You say, I'm like, am I just such aprude and so afraid of the world, but
like the fear of drinking at school?
Yeah.
It, it wouldn't even cross my mind.
Yeah.
Like going to like the dancesor whatever that we had, like
people were drunk in the bathroom.
Yeah.
And I was like, the fear of that.
Yeah.
I would get, there's no wayI'd be in so much trouble.

(45:53):
Yeah.
But you didn't have that.
Like you seem to have like, yeah,I, for some reason, version, it
didn't, I didn't fucking care.
Like yeah, ground me all you wantlike yell at me all you want.
I don't fucking care.
Like this is too, this is what I wanna do.
Yeah.
I don't knows.
So interesting.
Yeah.
Can we talk about skating?

(46:15):
Yeah.
So where are we at with skating?
We moved to Sarnia and now we haveto go to, honestly, as soon as I
started like drinking and like beingpopular and whatever that meant,
it was on like the back burner.
Okay.
It really did fall off.
So ninth grade, I'd say like ninthgrade, I was still doing good.
10th grade is when it started to fall off.

(46:35):
Um, 11th and 12th grade.
I still did it, but I wasn't competing.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Did you like your new coach?
No.
Like it, no one could replace the coach.
I hadn't felt like it wasn't the same.
Yeah, it didn't feel the same.
And like the coaches in StrathRoy were like, I did skating
in Strath Roy and in Sarnia.
Those coaches in Sarnia were just like.

(46:56):
They weren't as like, competitive with it.
Yeah.
Like I did like the coaches inStrath Roy, but again, I felt like
I was coming from somewhere else.
Yeah.
And I didn't grow up withthis guy coach, you know?
Yeah.
And also, I'm not as goodas everyone in Strath Roy.
Okay.
So it's not
like I'm like coming inand being the best ever.

(47:17):
Okay.
Um, so I just like kind of tooka back seat on that, I think.
Were you feeling intimidated at skating?
I think so.
Interesting.
Yeah.
But you're not feeling intimidatedto go to a new school once you've
started, like you're drinking.
Yeah.
I mean, even walking into thenew school, you're like, I'm,
I'm introducing myself to people.
Like I have to survive here.
Yeah.
And then I think I was.

(47:39):
Like, I tried to do it with skating,but then it just, it really wasn't
super, like, I couldn't competeand like smoke and drink the way
that I was doing it, you know?
Yeah.
I like in CO before I went into practice,maybe in 11th and 12th grade, like I would
be smoking a cigarette before going intoskating, you know, like I was, there's

(48:00):
no way I was gonna do good, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Were you, um, oh, I was gonnasay something, and I would
get stoned at school with oneof my friends I skated with.
Okay.
Me and her would get stoned atschool before going to skating
and go to skating together.
Oh, super high.
I would've hated you.
Yeah.
Holy shit.
Like I wasn't bad.

(48:21):
No, no.
Like in sar, when I skated in Sarnia, Iwas probably like top five skaters there.
When I went to Strathroy, I was probablylike one of the lower skaters in Strat.
It was like the big pond.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, so yeah, like it was just like, it.
Wasn't as important to me.
Do you think at the beginning ofgrade nine Yeah, the friendships

(48:43):
were more important and thenit switched to drinking.
Like once drinking came in.
Do you feel like that wasthe most important thing?
I wasn't even like focusedon the friends of it all.
Yeah.
I was focused on like how I wasbeing perceived, I guess, and
like the popularity of it all,which is so just like sad and like
really I feel bad for that girl.

(49:04):
Like she was, why was she trying sohard to fit in and why did fitting
in for her mean getting so fucked up?
You know, I wonder, I mean.
I mean, it's really chaotic.
Mm-hmm.
It's really chaotic to leaveyour home and have to start new.
Mm-hmm.
And then to then have to be perfectand go to school and go to skating.

(49:24):
Yeah.
When I'm mad at you guys andI don't know what's going on.
Like they, they really took you awayfrom everything that was grounding.
Yeah.
And so now it's like, well, ifI'm up in the air already, I
might as well fucking follow it.
Yeah.
You know?
And I think I really justdid like that feeling of like
being free when I was drunk.
Like Yeah.
When I was drunk, I really justlike felt freedom and I felt

(49:48):
safety and that's what I needed.
I'm wonder if it feels for kids whodo move like that and especially
fuck going into grade nine.
Yeah.
It is crazy.
Yeah.
But I wonder how stabilizing that is Yes.
In the moment, but then alsofor like the rest of your high
school career, you're like.
Even if they say they're stayingat their jobs, I don't know.
Yeah.
I can be your friend, but Idon't know if I'm gonna be here.

(50:11):
Like I had a best friendback home and that was great.
And we were like playing Sims and watchingfriends and then, but we're not friends
anymore because they took me away.
So I can't really guaranteeI'm gonna be here.
I wonder if there's any of thatgoing on, like inside and then
you're like, let me just calm itall down and go to my own world.
I don't know what, if you're like, no.
I dunno if I was like, futuretripping, like, like mm-hmm.

(50:34):
I think I was just trying to survive.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and that, and Ireally just did like drinking.
I think I liked how it made me feel.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, like things justprogressively got worse in high school.
Like I did get arrested, um, onCanada Day, maybe in grade 10 or 11.

(50:55):
I don't know.
That was just for being drunk outside.
Right.
That was just for being drunk outsideand like I had a bottle and weed in
my backpack and I didn't know that youcould tell cops to not search your bag.
Yeah, I don't know either.
So,
yeah.
Well, they came up to us 'cause wewere like noticeably drunk and they
were like, let me look in your bag.
And I was like, okay.

(51:16):
But I guess I could have said,no, you can't look in my bag.
It's also such a power trip for like anadult male cop to come up to a child.
Girl, yeah.
And be like, what's in your bag?
Yeah.
Like, bitch, what's in your bag?
Literally like what you got on yourcamera, what you got on your phone?
So that was, I think maybe that wasbefore my high school party, honestly.
You got arrested?
I got arrested, taken to jail.
My dad picked me up in jail.

(51:37):
Who did he yell?
Of course, I think that might havebeen before my high school party.
So like who scarier?
Your mom or your dad?
My dad.
Okay.
Yeah.
My dad would like actually yell and then Ithink my mom would just like start crying.
Oh no.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
That is so unhelpful.
I
know.
Oh, I don't know why that got me so good.

(51:58):
Like you.
That's not cool.
It was not, it was nota good situation at all.
It wasn't helpful.
I didn't, I didn't know what to do.
I knew I was like in the wrong,I knew I was doing a bad thing
whenever, like I would get caught.
But like, I, I truly didn't care.
I don't know what's fun.
It's fun.
I was in high school.

(52:18):
I just thought that thisis what everyone was doing.
I thought this is what Iwas supposed to be doing.
I liked it.
Um, I would like smoke weed in myparents' backyard when they weren't home.
And then sometimes I would come homeearly and catch me and it would be
a whole thing and they'd yell at me.
And then I was smoking weed in my.
In my bedroom, blowing it out the window.
I was making like easy bakebrownie weed cookies out my window.

(52:42):
Like with my friends, we would eventuallystart doing Molly with these guys
tripping in my bedroom like we weremaking out with each other us girls.
And my mom walked in, she'slike, what the fuck is going on?
You know, like, it just likestarted progressively getting worse.
Tried the tried cocaine, Molly,grade 11, grade 12 maybe.

(53:03):
Um, and then I had that boyfriend ingrade 12 and all we did together was have
sex and smoke weed and drink pause whenyou're getting in trouble for smoking weed
outside or like you're getting in trouble.
Every time you smoke weed orevery time you do something and
it's just hit with punishment.
Yeah.
Are you getting grounded?
No.
You're just getting yelled at.

(53:23):
Really?
I'm just getting yelled at.
I don't think, I think theyknew they couldn't control me.
Did you?
You know what I mean?
Because I think like, I wouldrebel and like run away.
My, my friend like ran away to myhouse when her mom yelled at her
and there was like a police reportand like, she was literally hiding
under my covers for like a day.
Like it was crazy.

(53:44):
It's the wild west out there.
It's the wild west out there.
And I think they knew that,like my parents knew, like they
just got out of hand so fast andthey really couldn't control me.
They couldn't tell me what to dobecause I was gonna rebel either way.
Did they ever, and, and I'm nevergonna, there are some parents that
I will be judging in the world, butlike, I'm not judging your parents
at all because it is, you have a kidand this is getting outta control.

(54:06):
Yeah.
You have jobs, you're trying, youthink you're doing the right thing.
Was there ever a conversation,a sit down conversation that
was like empathetic and like.
Zoe, what's going on?
I don't think so.
I think, I think they had thatprobably with me in university,
but in high school I don't rememberhaving like a sit down, like heart

(54:27):
to heart with them and university.
Maybe they did 'cause theywere like, okay, I need to
take, we need to go to therapy.
Like we need to do to do something.
You're on your own.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, in high school I don'tremember a conversation like that.
Yeah.
And mind you, I think they were justlike hoping that it was high school
and that I would grow out of it.
Yeah.
I truly, that's probablywhat they were thinking.
Mm-hmm.

(54:48):
Um, yeah.
And we can kind of controlit 'cause she's in the house.
Yeah.
Um, would they get mad that your friendswere drinking in the house or, or smoking?
Of course.
Yeah.
Okay.
Like I was hiding it from them.
Yeah.
We were doing it every day.
Did they know every day?
Probably not.
Like we did get good at hiding it.
We'd go down to my beach.

(55:08):
Like we had, we'd smokein random schools like.
We found little pockets of Sarnia tosmoke and get fucked up at smoke and weed.
And there was like, there wasparties every weekend in Sarnia.
Like there was something going on.
Um, I don't know, it's hardto hide smoking weed's.
Weed.
Yeah.
Between smells, it smells alcohol.

(55:28):
At least you can kind of like, Idon't know, do it behind a bush.
I know.
I would think I was definitely like a, Iwas a stoner in high school, to be honest.
And what is the feeling of like,you are doing these things, you're
drinking, you're smoking, you'rehaving so much fucking fun, right?
Like you are having fun with yourfriends, you feel good, your parents
are saying, this is bad, this is bad.
Are you feeling like I should stop?

(55:49):
Or like, yeah, this is bad.
I'm gonna keep doing it 'causeit's fun and I don't really care.
I didn't really care.
Yeah.
And I maybe a part of me thoughtlike, oh, I'm in high school.
I ha I should be doing these things.
Like, I don't know, like.
I remember just like listeningto like Lord's one album.
Mm-hmm.
And like, like, or the weekend,like the partying of it all.
Like I craved that.

(56:10):
Like I wanted to live that.
Yeah.
Experience, like watchingeven skins growing up.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I was like, this is my,I want this to be my life.
I like that.
Yeah.
I don't know why I like that,but I wanna live like that.
This is the part that I'mso interested in actually.
Yeah.
Because again, like, and maybethe way that I was raised, or
how it was spoken about in mycommunity of like Christians mm-hmm.

(56:30):
But the party girls, the partying,like the Lindsay Lohan, the
Paris Hiltons, I loved it.
Right.
It's, it's interesting because Iwas like, oh, we can't be like that.
I think it, I think I, I liked it becauseI was also like really into the fact
that people were having sex and peoplewere talking about it in magazines.
Mm-hmm.
And like slutty or like cheating.

(56:50):
But I was like.
Oh, we can't do this.
Yeah.
This is like a devil woman.
Yeah.
But you were like, that looks fucking fun.
Maybe it just like wasn'ttalked about enough.
I'm wondering, I'm wondering if itwas that like my parents weren't like
saying that that was wrong growingup, so I didn't know it was wrong.
Mm-hmm.
So when, then when, when it waspresented to me, I was like, oh,
that looks so much fun and cool.

(57:12):
Okay.
And yeah.
I don't know why I associatedthat as being fun and cool.
Yeah.
Because the stoners at my school,we were like, those are the stoners.
Yeah.
Like they're, they weren't the cool,I mean, they were cool in their own
little way, but it was like the coolkids were like drinking on the weekends.
Yeah.

(57:32):
But the stoners, you were like, yeah.
I mean, they don't go to school.
They don't Yeah.
Go to class.
They just sit out bythe sign and smoke weed.
Yeah.
And like, that's not, thatdoesn't look like appealing.
Yeah.
But to you it was like, it wasa, that was like what I wanted.
Yeah.
You had like a little ecosystem in there.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Um, not to say you weren't cool, justlike the perception of things Yeah.
Is so different, so crazy.

(57:54):
I don't, I don't know why itconnected to me like that.
Yeah.
I just loved it.
I loved being a little stonerand like looking up at the clouds
and like being dazed and likenot having a care in the world.
Like I didn't, I loved that feeling.
Plus you liked the perception of it.
You like how you were being perceivedor that was important to you?

(58:16):
Yeah.
It's interesting towork so hard to fit in.
Yeah.
And then, and then chillout at the end of the day.
Like let it all go.
It's almost like you had to do that.
Yeah.
It's like, I don't know, correct meif I'm wrong, but going to school and.
Even if you're like, yeah,these are my friends.
I'm fitting in, I'm fittingin, I'm actively fitting in.
Yeah.
I'm trying to be someoneI'm not to fit in.
Yeah.
And now when I go home and I'm withthese people and I'm drinking or

(58:37):
smoking, it's like, now I'm myself.
Yeah.
And they're cool with me becauseI'm stoned and they're stoned.
But I think like also it became likequickly, like I didn't like what I
was doing and that's why I'm smokingweed by myself to go to sleep.
You know?
It like in grade 10, I was definitelylike smoking and or drinking by myself.
Like it wasn't a social thing.

(58:58):
Like I quickly was like, oh, I likethis because I don't like who I am.
Do you remember the firsttime you drank by yourself?
Would
it been like after party?
No, but like, it wasprobably like very quickly.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Okay.
And when you drink by yourself, do youhave any I any, any re any uh, memory
of being like, oh, I'm doing this alone?

(59:18):
No.
Okay.
So it wasn't significant to you.
It was just like, I think likeprobably when I was stealing
booze from my parents for parties.
I was like, oh, let's justtake a swig right now.
Yeah.
Let's just get it going beforeI go to my friend's place.
What is it about parents whohave like a cabinet full of
liquor that they never drink?
Yeah.
What are you doing?
Yeah.
Like is that just from parties andstuff and you're like, that looks cute.

(59:40):
I'm gonna put it in the cabinet.
I mean, yeah.
Like my parents drank a lot too, so Ithink they sometimes they didn't notice.
'cause I would only take a little bit.
Yeah.
Like they would have likea four or five big jugs.
I would take a little bit of each.
Yeah.
And then two nights after that they woulddrink some and then I could drink more.
Yeah.
You know, we'd call that the kitchen sink.

(01:00:01):
Yeah.
We put everything in the same bottle.
In the same bottle.
Um, and I think quickly, likeI was becoming friends with
guys who would buy us alcohol.
So they're older, whatever.
Yeah.
And how are you making friends with them?
Just at parties.
Yeah.
And when are you.
Okay, so now we're gonnago to university, I think.
Wait, when you quit skating?

(01:00:22):
Yeah.
What did that feel like?
It wasn't, I never like quit,I just stopped competing.
And I think it was gradual because I waslike, yeah, like I, I think when I moved
to Sarnia it was kind of like, I doubtI'm gonna continue this the way that I am
because my coach isn't here, to be honest.
Gotcha.
Have you had sex yet in high school?
Yeah, of course.
When, um, I think, of course going intograde 10, I think I lost my virginity

(01:00:47):
with like a random guy that I knew inOakville and I just wanted to lose it.
Okay.
All of these things that I'm noticingare just like, it's no thought.
It's just I'm doing it.
Yeah.
And it's like fun and it feels goodand I'm following 'cause I'm not
thinking 'cause I'm high and like drunk.
I'm not really thinking about anything.
I'm just like doing it.

(01:01:08):
And did you have sex?
Because you wanted to, or becausepeople were like, that's cool.
Oh, my friends were having sexand I'm saying it was cool.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then you were like, Igotta go, I gotta do it too.
Yeah.
And I didn't wanna do it with someonein Sarnia 'cause I, I just wanted
it to be like, done and over with.
So I just like knew this guyin Oakville had sex with him.
And Were you scared that was it?
No, I, we were both like really stoned.

(01:01:30):
Yeah.
But still, I would like,didn't feel anything.
Okay.
You know, I couldn't feel anything.
Yeah.
I dunno.
I couldn't feel anything.
I wasn't scared.
I didn't feel a sort,sort of way about it.
I wasn't happy that it was over.
Yeah.
I was happy I did it.
And then were youexcited to tell everyone?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was very excited too.
Yeah.
Okay.
Interesting.

(01:01:52):
Yeah.
The, um, the boyfriend Ihad in grade 12, like was.
Scum.
Like he, was he in 12th grade lived?
No, he was older.
He lived on like the pooreststreet in Sarnia, like Right.
He just allowed me to drink every daywith him and smoke weed with him every
day, provided me drugs and alcohol.
That's why I liked him.

(01:02:14):
Um, and then I told him like, I'mmoving to Toronto for school, and
he tried to come with me to Torontoand quickly he hated the city.
Yeah.
Because he hasn't been anywherein his life except for Sarnia.
So he moved back and then I wasworking at and going to school
for photography at Ryerson.
Mm-hmm.
Now it's called TMU.

(01:02:34):
Okay.
So you graduated high school?
Yeah.
Like I and TMU is notthat easy to get into.
Yeah.
Like you do have to have an 80 in English.
Like you do have to I was fine in school.
Yeah.
Like, even though I was getting fuckedup somehow every day, like I still like
was getting like B average, you know?
Yeah.
Um, I don't get that at.

(01:02:54):
Oh yeah, I don't get that.
You can have like a priority that'slike so fun and nonchalant and like
getting fucked up and doing whateverand then still getting shit done.
I don't know either.
I don't have that.
I really didn't know how I did it.
Um, kid energy when I, when we wouldgo on trips in high school too.
I just wanted to mention this.
I would always get in-school detentionsbecause we'd go on these school trips

(01:03:18):
and I would always sneak into the boys'rooms to do drugs and alcohol with them.
I wasn't even going into theirrooms to like have sex with them.
Drugs.
What kind of drugs?
Weed.
Just weed.
Weed.
Okay.
I think me, I don't know.
I think at that point it was just weird.
Mm-hmm.
But nothing would be, like, nothingcould get in my way of like.

(01:03:38):
Like my other friends would, they wouldwanna go into the guys' rooms to like hook
up with them or like make out with them.
But I was too far along where I was like,I don't even like really care about that.
Like I just wanna drink withthem and I just wanna like have,
yeah, I need to smoke weed.
I can't be on the school tripand not like, be high or drunk.
Right now.
We have to go to their roomand we have to do that.
Yeah.
Okay.

(01:03:59):
I don't know, I was just like,I was, I just want all that to
say, I was like into it already.
I, in high school I wasdefinitely an alcoholic.
This is, this is also a questionand I'm sorry if I'm being annoying.
Yeah.
When do you feel like you got addicted?
Like when do you feel like it gotyou, it can be different for like,
it might not be, I don't know.
I think like as soon, like that firsttime I drank, I drank to get blackout.

(01:04:20):
Mm-hmm.
And ever since that moment Iwanted to drink to get blackout.
Okay.
It was instant kind of for me.
Okay.
So you were an addict in high school?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean that's what it seems like.
Yeah.
It's just sometimes itdoesn't feel like, yeah.
A real issue.
I didn't realize there wasan issue until university.
Mm-hmm.
And why, why was university an issue?
Well, because then I would, I,um, realized like my friends would

(01:04:44):
tell me, people who I valued theiropinions I guess were like, Hey,
you're getting way too fucked up.
Okay.
My friend gave me an ultimatumbasically like, you can either
go to therapy and figure out yourdrinking or we can't be friends.
So I did therapy for a bitbecause she told me that.
Didn't she set you up with a therapist?
She that set me up with a therapist.
Yeah.
That was my third first therapist.
My parents were thrilled that I wastalking to someone about this, but

(01:05:07):
obviously I was lying to them abouthow bad my drinking was and they
were trying to control my drinkingand like saying, okay, we'll only
drink on weekends, only drink fourdrinks a night, blah, blah, blah.
I couldn't only have four drinks a night.
Sure.
I would have four drinksa night one night.
The next night I'd have 17.
It wasn't working.

(01:05:29):
And the harm reduction doesn'twork when you are fully addicted to
alcohol and I didn't know that so.
That friend left me.
I just kept going down this rabbithole and I kept getting in trouble.
I got fired from jobs, got introuble at school for being
very fucked up in lectures.

(01:05:50):
Um, this immediate, like when youmoved to Toronto and you started
going to class, like you're still,you're just drinking everything.
Well, I had to make new friends nowin Toronto, so I had to like figure
out my friend group in this in.
I was working at a restaurant, so Imade some friends from the restaurant,
and then I had my friends from school.
Mm-hmm.
So as soon as I got like afriend group, I was going at it.

(01:06:11):
You know, my, you're good at that too.
Like you're good at makingfriends I guess so I, I'm good
at adapting to the situation.
Well, not only that, but you're also areally good friend where like you Yeah.
You give a fuck about your friendsand you make a lot of time for them.
Yeah.
I don't know where you're findingtime, but it's clearly I have no time.
Yeah.
But it's, it's pretty incredible.
It's like, it wasn't like, yeah, it's asurvival thing for you, but I also think

(01:06:32):
you're so good at it that it's like, yeah.
I think that's it too.
I think like I am a good personat the end of the day, even
though like I'm going crazy.
I am a good person and that'swhy I can make friends.
Yeah.
And like have these relationships.
But the friends that I had inthe restaurant were all older.
So
yeah,
I would go to school, go to work.

(01:06:55):
Until like 12 and then go outto the club with these older
friends from the restaurantuntil like three in the morning.
Mm-hmm.
Pretty much every day.
I was 17 when I moved here, butsince I was like going out with
them, I got in everywhere and I hada fake ID and I was like ordering
dial a bottle using my fake id.

(01:07:16):
Yeah.
Which I did not know about.
And I was going, and then when thatworked for a really long time, I
built the courage up to go to the LCBOwith my fake id and it worked too.
Oh
fuck.
Yeah.
So, and my LCBO was in the samebuilding as my condo, so it
was like very accessible to me.
I was like, fuck yes.
Perfect, perfect.
Don't have to go that far.
So I think like, yeah, just progressively,like it was wor it was bad in high

(01:07:42):
school and then in university I was,I had the freedom to do it as much.
Were you sitting in a dorm room?
No, it was an apartment.
Yeah.
Okay.
My parents had.
Bought a place and I moved into it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Got it, got it, got it.
By myself.
Did they say anything to youbefore you went to university?
Were they like, Hey, chillout on the drinking or no?
No.
I think they also like, just thought thatit was gonna go away when I went there.

(01:08:05):
Yeah.
You get too busy with school, you'd havenew friends, everything would be fine.
Yeah.
And it was not, and when I had thattherapist, they were really happy.
And then I dropped it because itwasn't working, but I, it wasn't
working 'cause I was lying.
You were lying to her.
Um, and then I got like anothertherapist, like this is when I
was trying to control my drinking.

(01:08:26):
I was just like getting new therapist.
I was getting a counselor at school.
I went to Cam HI was vegetarian.
I started trying to work out.
Just threw that one in there.
Yeah.
Like I was just like, I thoughtlike being vegetarian would save me.
'cause like I, at least I'm beinghealthy so I'm not gonna make
bad decisions if I'm being held.

(01:08:46):
Just like anything to stop me.
From doing what I was doing did thatwas doing, did that ever switch over?
Did you ever go like, oh, I'mbeing healthy, like I'm eating
really healthy so now I can drink?
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Okay.
Of course.
Yeah.
That's how it works.
Yeah.
That's literally how it works.
It's like, oh, I'll stopdrinking and I'll do this.
Yeah.
And it's like, well, if I'mdoing this, I can, I can drink
and I deserve to drink then.
Yeah.

(01:09:07):
Why am I being so hard on myself?
I don't have to stop drinking.
Yeah.
And how was your therapist trying to dealwith you trying to control your drinking?
Like what were they saying?
I don't necessarily remember, but Ithink that they were just trying to
like give me tests to do when I wasgoing out to drink, like limit myself.
I, like I said, I could limitmyself one day and not the next.

(01:09:29):
Yeah.
And it was, you can't, you, youcan't control your drinking.
Yeah.
And it's not like a thing.
And I do resent therapists.
Because they never said,yo, you can't handle this.
You, I gave you a testand you didn't achieve it.
Oh, maybe you should stopforever and go to rehab.
I know.
I don't know what they're allowed to say.
Like, they can't tell you what to do.
They would have to wait for you tobe like, so I think that this isn't

(01:09:52):
gonna work and I should go to rehab.
And then they can, butthey can't like tell you.
Yeah.
At the same time, at the same time, youwere not gonna go like, well, do you think
that you're controlling your drinking?
Do you think you can control this?
Yeah, I agree.
But, but honestly, they probablywere asking me those questions and I
probably was saying yes because I didn'twant them to take it away from me.
Yeah.
Let's be real.
Yeah.
Also, then you kind of, did you startto feel bad like being in therapy

(01:10:13):
and just being like, oh my God, Ishould be getting my shit together.
And I'm like lying to her,but I'm just gonna drink.
Did that make you feel bad?
I think like I was only going, I probablywas only going to therapy though to
like make people happy, you know?
Yeah.
Like I don't, I don't know if I everbelieved I could drink normally.
Mm-hmm.
To be honest.

(01:10:33):
Part two of Zoey's story drops next week.
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Proud of you.
Thanks for listening to Girl Un Drunk.
You can follow us on Instagram and TikTokat Girl Un Drunk podcast and or send
me an email at [e-mail].

(01:10:56):
And before we go, thank you to our amazingproducer, Arian Me, show and support
from her team at consciously producedMartin Nunes Bonilla for the graphics.
Ian sit for setting up oursound and Daniel James for
the music and final edits.
This podcast would notbe possible without you.