It Was Instant: Part 2

Zoe shares Part 2 of her story, tracing the spiral from fun college nights to blackouts, balcony standoffs, and a DUI. She opens up about hitting rock bottom during COVID, landing in rehab in her early twenties, and facing the truth: the only way forward was to stop drinking for good. Now, nearly three years sober, Zoe reflects on rebuilding her life—and the surprising joy of living without alcohol.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This podcast covers sensitive topicsthat may be difficult for some listeners.
Please take care while listening.
Last week on Girl Un Drunk.
Cheers babe.
Ooh, cheers.
Curious Elixirs, use our code Undrunk for $10 off on orders over $50.
How did it get you?

(00:20):
Why did it get you?
I think it was pretty instant for methis first time I drank, I got blackout
and I chased that blackout ever since.
And then in grade eight I was toldthat we're gonna move to Sarnia.
At this point, I was like,I do never want to do drugs.
Like when Dare came to the school inlike grade seven, I was like, oh, okay.
I will never do drugs and wantingto fit in, wanting to be cool.

(00:43):
But then it just like, it tookme like alcohol took me and it.
Didn't let me go.
One day I woke up and Ijust like couldn't stop it.
A lot of it is retaliation, I think.
Totally.
You were like, that looks fucking fun.
Maybe it just like wasn'ttalked about enough.
I'm wondering, I'm wondering if itwas that like my parents weren't like
saying that that was wrong growing upwhen it was presented to me, I was like,

(01:05):
oh, that looks so much fun and cool.
Okay.
I associated that as being fun and cool.
When we would go on trips in highschool, I would always seek into the
boys' rooms to do drugs and alcohol withthem, like nothing could get in my way.
My friend gave me an ultimatumbasically like, you can either
go to therapy and figure out yourdrinking or we can't be friends.

(01:26):
So I did therapy for a bit, butobviously I was lying to them
about how bad my drinking was.
I couldn't only have four drinks a night.
Sure.
I would have four drinksa night one night.
The next night I'd have 17.

(01:57):
So you're your first year university.
You're going to class drunk, you'regoing, you're doing everything.
You have your friends, you're workingat the restaurant you get fired from.
Yeah.
Why?
Because I was, I told him I was high.
I told, well, the manager cameover to me and he was like, you
look a little bit tired today.
And I was like, yeah, I smokedsome weed before and took a nap.
Like I'm feeling okay.
Yeah.
But I only told him that becauseme and him did cocaine two

(02:19):
weeks ago at a party together.
So like we're chill.
Yeah.
Or so I thought.
Yeah.
And then he ratted me out and toldlike the upper management that
I said that When, when did youdo cocaine for the first time?
In high school.
Oh, in high school?
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
And that wasn't scary.
No.
Even after dare.
No.
All right.
I know.
It's just crazy how it likeswitched so instantly for me.

(02:41):
Some people are very fear averse.
A lot of addicts are fear averse.
Yeah.
This your life is very fearaverse after you move to Sarnia.
Yeah.
And then like Yeah, like it even mestanding on the edge of my balcony, like
not fear, I wasn't scared of that at all.
Yeah.
We're gonna get to that.
Where are we in the timeline?

(03:02):
We've we're fired fromwhere you get another job.
We get another job.
We're still in school.
Yeah, we're still in school.
School going, I mean it's okay.
Mm-hmm.
Like are you gonna class?
I'm going to class.
Yeah.
And, but were most classes I'mgoing to like, I didn't go to
every single class, but like Yeah.
I was going to the campusbar between classes.
Mm-hmm.
I wasn't fully committingmyself to Well, 'cause alcohol

(03:25):
is the most important thing.
Exactly.
Did you find drinking friends?
Yeah.
Like I found my friends in university.
Mm-hmm.
And they drank with me as much.
Not as much.
And I think that they liked mebecause I drank way more than them.
So it gave, it showed them thatthey weren't like a problem.
That's Yeah.
That bad.

(03:45):
Uh, it's nice to, and now thatI stopped to, everyone's now
looking at their drinking.
Isn't that weird?
Yeah.
Isn't that so weird?
Like the conversations aftersobriety, it's like, well, maybe I
should, and it's like, yeah, I know.
'cause I like pseudoshamed you by accident.
Yeah.
By going to rehab.
It's like, yeah.
I think, um, yeah, like inuniversities, when I knew that I

(04:06):
didn't drink normally and I knewthat I should probably get help.
Okay.
And I feel like I tried.
But I knew I wasn't committingmyself fully because I didn't wanna
actually stop, you know, you have aproblem, like, you know, you can stop.
I knew I had a problem andlike I didn't want to stop it.

(04:26):
I just wanted to like make people notmad at me so I could keep drinking.
Yeah.
And it was just like a cycle.
It's a lot of work.
Um, and then COVID happens and Ithink I had like one more semester
of high of University left.
Okay.
When COVID happens, I knew I should goto Sarnia because I would drink myself

(04:51):
to death by myself in Toronto becausemy friends were not gonna see me.
'cause they were taking it very seriouslyand they lived with their family.
So you didn't care?
No, I wanted to still hang out with them.
Yeah.
But they're like, I'm not my friendswere like, I'm not seeing anybody.
Yeah.
Like, we're taking this seriously.
I'm not gonna see you.
Yeah.
Now I was like, okay, well shit, Ican't stay in Toronto by myself and my

(05:12):
condo because I'm gonna drink myself todeath or I'm gonna jump off my balcony.
Were you already, were youalready doing the balcony stuff?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, let's talk about the balcony stuff.
Yeah, the balcony stuff waslike in an like I, I ended up
going to hospitals in, yeah.
I don't think I went to ahospital in high school.
I think the hospital thingsstarted in university.

(05:35):
Yeah, because you were runningaway from your friends.
I was running away from my friends.
I was like just like falling inthe street, like almost getting
run over, threatening to killmyself in front of people.
Yeah.
Standing on my balcony.
Balcony on the railing of your balcony.
On the railing of the balcony.

(05:55):
But that was in a blackout, right?
Those are in blackoutswhen that's happening?
Yes and no.
Like I'm pretty sure I came toone time and I was like standing
on the edge and I was like, oh.
And then I stepped off and Didn'tsomeone see you up there once?
Well, yeah.
My friend was over once and that'swhen she called the cops one time.

(06:16):
Oh, she did?
Yeah.
Because you were standing on the railingof your balcony on the 45th floor.
And then I told the cops like,I didn't invite her over.
I don't know why she's here.
Like I was Yeah.
A total psycho person.
They're like, that's the problem.
Yeah.
Drunk idiot.
Like, I never invited her over.
Why is she even here?
Were you, um, having suicidalideation in a real way?

(06:38):
Like, were you like, I wanna die?
Or just when you were drinking?
Yeah.
Well, I think like, I wanted to die, soI knew I, like, I was like, okay, I'm
gonna die from drinking myself to death.
Yeah.
Like, I want, I am not gonna activelylike cut myself or kill myself, but I
know that drinking is gonna kill me.
So like, let's just fucking gobecause there is a switch for you.

(06:58):
Right.
Like high school's Fun.
Fun, fun, fun.
You're thrilled Yeah.
To be drinking, having sex, doingdrugs with your friends, and then
it turns to this is gonna kill me.
Mm-hmm.
So something happens between leavinghigh school and getting to university.
Where it's just now it's taken adifferent route and it's like depression.

(07:20):
Yeah.
That's what it sounds like to me.
It's just like it's been going on nowfor four plus years of me doing this.
Yeah.
And I wonder if that's alsochanging your brain chemistry too.
Yeah.
It's just like now you're mush.
Yeah.
You know, mind you, alcohol is adepressant, so even if you don't
have depression, it's depressing you.
Yeah.
Like you are getting depressed from it.
Makes sense.
I didn't like the things that Iwas doing when I was drunk either.

(07:42):
Like I would wake up like so terrifiedof what I did, not knowing what I did,
not knowing what I said, like I didn'tlike that, but like, did I keep drinking?
Of course.
Yeah.
Well, you have to.
I have to.
Um, yeah, it just became like acycle and I didn't want to die.

(08:04):
But I didn't want to live withthe feelings I was having.
Yeah.
So I was like, okay, I need to drink.
Like there was no other escape.
I think that's like a really,really important point.
Yeah.
To make that all thesethings are going wrong.
People are telling you to stop,you know, you should stop.
But like, how am I supposed to stop now?

(08:26):
How am I supposed to be soberand then have to deal with all
of the collateral that I did?
Yeah.
The things I did.
Now I'm gonna think about whatI did, the text messages I sent,
the fights, the sex, the whatever.
How am I supposed to do that?
Yeah.
How am I supposed to get soberand think about all that?
Yeah.
I couldn't.
Mm-hmm.
Um, it's very hard to do.

(08:48):
And then when COVID happened, I thinkit just like made it 10 times worse
because I. There was nothing going on.
The world was shut down.
Mm-hmm.
And I got this other boyfriendin Sarnia on Hinge, or how he was
like, I knew him from high school.
Okay.
Oh, right, okay.
Yeah.

(09:08):
So he made it like acce.
He was a full-blownaddict, alcoholic as well.
So all my boyfriends wereaddicts and alcoholics, but he
was probably like the worst one.
Um mm-hmm.
And he made it like fully acceptablefor me to like, drink all day every day.
You know, like, I don't think, and Ihad to live for anything else, and I

(09:32):
just like fully took this on, like,as like, yeah, I'm an alcoholic.
Let's go.
Like, I think before I was like, uh, Idon't know, like I drink too much a lot
of the time, but I don't know if I'm out.
I, I'm an alcoholic.
I think this is where I lean into like,yeah, I'm an alcoholic, and like, this
is just what I am now and I can't change.

(09:53):
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Like fully accepting it.
Yeah.
And did that scare you or wereyou happy to have a label?
I think I was happy to have a labeland I was happy to have someone
that like was an addict as well.
Having a, my COVID boyfriendreally made it acceptable for me
to like really live in my, um,true like addiction alcoholic self.

(10:17):
He also like was really, he wasway more into Coke than I was.
Like, he sought that out like almostevery day and I wasn't the one
being like, we need to get coke, buthe was like, we need to get coke.
And I was like, okay, we'll get Coke.
Yeah.
Like I could never say no to that.
Did you get addicted to it, to Coke?
I don't think so.
Okay.
Because again, like Inever like sought it out.

(10:39):
Yeah.
I was never like, Hey, let's get Coke.
Yeah.
He was always the one saying it and Iwas always the one like just doing it.
Yeah.
I think sometimes people think like.
Oh, you're just addicted to all of it.
Or like, if you're doingcoke, you're addicted to it.
Yeah.
Which I think is, istrue for a lot of people.
I, I also think that in this case,your alcohol addiction overrode any
other addiction that was coming at you?
'cause it was so strong.

(11:00):
I mean, like, we'll talk aboutlike different things I was
addicted to too, because Yeah.
I think in high school my main addictionwas probably smoking weed, to be honest.
Hmm.
And then like going into university, Ithink like weed was on level with alcohol.
And then my boyfriend, my firstboyfriend in Toronto, he told me

(11:24):
like, we should quit smoking weed.
And I was like, that's fine.
I can quit smoking weedbecause I have alcohol.
No problem.
And I actually like really love drinkingand I, let's hone in on that maybe.
Yeah.
I quit smoking weed fine.
And just like really honedin on the drinking of it all.
Mm-hmm.

(11:45):
I don't know.
I definitely, I said that I was moreinto smoking weed in high school.
Maybe that wasn't true.
It was more, it was probably bothlike high school and in university.
I liked them both equally.
And then I just knew when my boyfriendwas like, we need to quit smoking
weed, that I could drop weed andjust like, really focus on drinking.
Yeah.
And that's exactly what I did.

(12:05):
And I think that's like another turningpoint where my drinking got really bad.
Yeah, you made a choice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because in high school I feel like,yeah, it's like, it's, it's convoluted
'cause you're doing all these things,you're like, what am I more addicted to?
Yeah.
And it's like, in high school it'sprobably too like what's available?
What's available?
What's accessible.
Yeah.
Think so.
Precarious.
You're so young.
Did we have, um, atthat time, did we have.

(12:26):
Like smoke shop weed shops.
So in, no, we didn't, like in universityfirst year I was going to like this
illegal smoke shop where like, Ireally liked the people working there.
Like I made friends with them, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
There was one summer when I wasin university where I was friends
with this one girl and she wasdefinitely addicted to Coke.
Okay.
And me and her probably boughtit every other day together.

(12:48):
Mm-hmm.
For like the whole summer.
So that summer I wasdoing a lot of cocaine.
Did you like her or did youjust like doing coke or what?
I like she was really cool.
Yeah.
Okay.
I really like, I liked hanging outwith her because she was cool probably.
Yeah.
And she did, like, she knewwhat parties to go to and
like, she got into everywhere.
She was like in the scene of it all.

(13:08):
Cool.
Um, so like, it felt like cool hangingout with her and if she wanted to do blow,
like I was gonna do blow too, obviously.
Yeah.
Um, so like Coke was always there.
It's just like, it wasn'tsomething that I was ever like.
I am, I need to do this every single day.
Yeah.
The people that I was surroundingmyself were more like, we
need to do this every day.
And I was like, for sure.
Let's do it.

(13:28):
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Comfy.
You don't have to bethe one to initiate it.
Everyone around you is doing it.
Yeah.
And when COVID was going on, likeI definitely got a little bit
psychotic in that relationshipbecause like of course I was.
Mm-hmm.
I was fucked up every single day.
Were you living with him orwere you with your parents?
I was with my parents, but I was spendinga lot of time with him and his family.

(13:50):
Okay.
And I like ruined a bunch of familyevents 'cause I was too fucked up.
I ruined a wedding.
Like how I got drunk in a field.
Like, I was just like being obnoxious.
Yeah.
Like, I was, like, I was getting,I couldn't really hide it.
You were outta control.
I was outta, I was in COVID,I was out of control drinking.

(14:12):
Yeah.
Like a lot of the time.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I would say in university, Iprobably got like out of control drinking
maybe like once every couple weeks.
And like my friends would be like,yo, you gotta fucking slow down.
Yeah.
In COVID, I think it waslike every other day.
Yeah.
I would be like getting outof control, like mm-hmm.
Um, still ending up atthe hospital in Sarnia.

(14:34):
Um, still like threatening tokill myself, especially towards my
boyfriend when he like wasn't doingsomething I, I wanted him to do.
You know, like justusing that against him.
I still have that.
Yeah.
When I, we had like a,like a conversation that.
The person that I'm seeing right now,we're both very stressed out about
life and our, you know, our own thing.

(14:56):
And we like had a conversation that wasjust like hard to have and I felt myself
so bad wanting to be like, honestly,I'll just fucking kill myself then.
Yeah.
Like a, I don't feel that,and b it's just such a tactic.
'cause then you can't say anything tome after I say I'm gonna kill myself.
Yeah.
You're like, well, conversation over.
Yeah.
But I'm like, yeah, yeah.
I still kind of have that Yeah.

(15:17):
Automatic feeling.
Yeah.
I definitely use that a lot.
And like, whether I believedit or not, like it's fucked up.
It's so fucked up.
It's so fucked up.
But it's, but it's, it's what happened.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
Um, I think in COV, like I wasn't tryingto get help anymore, like that trying

(15:38):
period of like going to therapy and allthat stuff was in university and COVID.
It was just like.
I'm done.
Like I'm done.
I'm probably gonna die soon.
Like I've accepted it.
When my boyfriend and COVID broke up withme, I was like, even worse in my addiction
and like, why'd he break up with you?

(15:58):
Because he couldn't fucking handle me.
Okay.
I was literally a crazy person.
But he was a drunk too.
Yeah.
But like I, you were better.
I was, I, he could handleit maybe more than I could.
I was, when it was crazy, he couldcontrol it a little bit more.
Mm-hmm.
And I could not, like Iwas so far beyond gone.

(16:19):
Like I was showing up to boyfriend'shouses in university too, but I was
showing up at his house uninvited,like stalking him, like very like yeah.
Crazy abusive things.
Um, very dysregulated.
Not in your head.
And I was like driving at thispoint, like drunk all the time.
Did that scare you?

(16:40):
Did you ever have a thought?
No, babe.
When I was in highschool, nothing scared me.
So of course now that I'm drinkingand driving, it's not gonna scare
me, but I'm trying to see, 'causelike the law is now involved, like
when you're a kid, it's like yourparents, I got arrested in high school.
Okay.
I don't fucking, I don'tthink I ever fucking cared.
Okay.
I didn't care about myself after, I don'teven know if I cared about myself in

(17:00):
Oakville because I didn't know myself.
I was in grade eight, you know?
Yeah.
I never got to know myself.
I never was familiar with myself.
I never loved myself.
I was just like, okay, fuck it.
Let's go on this fuckingrollercoaster of, of a life.
Yeah.
It's very interesting to me.
Yeah.
The way that it, it, it makes sense.
Yeah.
I'm like, yeah, that makes so much sense.

(17:21):
You just kind of likefucked off, you know?
Yeah.
If you and me, were in a cartogether right now and we're sober.
Yeah.
And I'm driving.
Great driver.
And we got pulled over.
Mm-hmm.
Not my fault.
Would you be scared if we got pulled over?
I don't think so.
Oh my God.
I would, I would cry.
Really?
Yes.
I do not like authority.
I do not like to be in trouble.
I do not like to be yelled at.
I don't trust, I don't trustthat the consequence is gonna

(17:43):
match the, the, the act.
Yeah.
And I just don't like it.
Speed limit girl.
I don't know.
I just like, well now I wouldn'tbe scared because like I know that
we're in the right and I know thatlike everything's gonna work out.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I trust that.
Sure.
I don't, I didn't have the capacityto care or be fearful because

(18:07):
I didn't care about myself.
I think that's the piece, right?
Yeah.
It's like when you are like,already, like, I'm not in control
of myself, I'm going to die.
Yeah.
Everybody around me thinksthat I'm a fucking loser.
That's way worse thanwhat Getting arrested.
Like that's, I'm gonna die.
Who cares?
You know?
Um, yeah.

(18:27):
So I got A-D-U-I-I.
I don't even remember getting into my car.
It's so fucked up.
And I was going to this guy's houseto fuck him, literally so fucked up.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, I was like, I don't remembergetting, driving or going into the car.
And someone called the cops, I guess,saying like, there's someone fucking

(18:50):
swerving all over the street riding a curblike, you need to at night to stop her.
No, it was like in theearly afternoon in Sarnia.
Okay.
So, yeah, so this iswhat I'm talking about.
We've gone from like makingdecisions like, or doing things,
but then to be so like blatantlyobvious in the middle of the day.
It's not even sneaky at this point.
It's just like, I don't give a fuck.

(19:10):
But I think that I would do thesethings a lot where I would be
like, oh, I think I can control it.
Nope, I can't, you know.
Oops.
Like, it, it's just like acontinuous cycle where I'm like,
oh, I think I'm hiding this.
No, I'm not.
I fucked up that timeor I fucked up again.
They, they know that I'm that fucked.
Like everyone knew I was so fucked up.
Yeah.
From the moment I really started,it was always gonna be a problem.

(19:34):
Yeah.
So after the DUI, I made a promiseto my parents that I would stop
drinking for two weeks and I did.
It was like really fucking awful.
Yeah.
Two weeks.
Like I was the only way I madeit that two weeks because I fully
knew I was just gonna drink againafter those two weeks were up.

(19:56):
Like that day, uh, that it was like afterthe two weeks, I was like, Hey, fuck yes,
I get to drink and like I got blackout.
Does it feel like a challengewhen you're not allowed to drink?
Like a fun challenge becauselike, I couldn't wait two weeks.
There's no way I would'vegotten alcohol for sure.
I was just like, I knew that theywere gonna kick me out on the street.
Okay.
You know, like it was, I didn't haveanything like, they're mad, mad.

(20:19):
Of course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I could have killedmyself or someone else.
Like that's so fuckingunsafe and crazy of me.
Yeah.
They were like, you haveto stop for two weeks.
Or like, I knew theywere gonna kick me out.
Yeah.
Um, fuck.
So I knew I had to do that for two,whatever, two weeks I could drink again.
And then I did and justcontinued to be crazy.

(20:43):
But no car now.
But no car now.
I had to, now you're tofucking walk everywhere.
Okay.
I was gonna say you're livingin Sarnia, where are you?
And bike and like, get mento pick me up from my house.
And this is where like mydad like completely stops
like talking to me as well.
Like Okay.
Kind of shuts me out after the DUI.
Yeah.

(21:03):
Well, and when I started drinkingagain after the DUI, okay.
Like that two weeks, he was like,obviously still gonna help me.
But after I started drinking again,he's like, okay, like there's
nothing I can fucking do for you.
Okay.
Um, shit.
But was that kind of nice?
Were you kinda like, great.
Yeah.
Have my back.
For sure.
I was like, okay, no onefucking cares about me anymore.
Fabulous.
Mm-hmm.
I don't care about myself either.

(21:24):
Let's do this.
Fabulous.
Yeah.
Um, oh, Zoe.
And then I got like fired from myjob there in Sarnia and, 'cause I
was drinking on the job obviously.
Yeah.
She obviously, um, I thought you werejust gonna like, skip over that you Yeah.
That you got fired.
I'm like, why I got fired.

(21:44):
Everything I got, I got firedfrom everything For being a drunk.
Yeah.
She called the cops on me becauseshe thought that I was drugged
because of how insane I was acting.
Mm-hmm.
She thought it wasn't alcohol.
She thought I had must have been druggedbecause I was just being so fucking crazy.
Yeah.
Like that's how.
Insane.
I was like, when I drank, I was atotally different person times a hundred.

(22:09):
Like I was an insane devil person.
Do you think it's like a psychosis?
Like I was probably enteringpsychosis now I'm gonna say
like alcohol induced psychosis.
You're fucking your brain somuch all the time that like,
that's not just a blackout.
You're like acting crazy.
Yeah.
I'm acting like a crazy psycho person.
So, well, even the, even the, thethought process of like, I'm going

(22:29):
to work today, not just like alittle bit of alcohol in my bottle,
it's like I'm fucked up already.
Yeah.
I just, like, I don't think Icould, I didn't wanna be even
there a little bit anymore.
No.
Yeah.
Um, after that, I think I was keepingon going for another couple months.

(22:49):
Mm-hmm.
Um, after like a couple months withouthaving a job, like nothing to do in Sarnia
except for just drink myself to death.
I was like, Hey.
It's 2022 now.
Things are open.
We gotta get back to the city.
Like we gotta move.
I have nothing going on for me and Sarnia.
Let's go back to my friends in Toronto.

(23:11):
Yeah.
And maybe like going back to the citywill help me control my drinking because
like, I'll have things to do there.
I'll have my friends.
I don't have anything in Sarnia.
So like, let's go back to the city.
I have my friends there.
I won't be getting thatfucked up there anymore.
Right.
And I move here and I liketry to live here again.

(23:34):
And I'm just ending upat the hospital again.
Did you believe you were gonnabe better and more chill?
No, I don't think so.
Okay.
I think I just like neededsomething to change.
Yeah.
I, I couldn't, like, I wasliterally dying in Sarnia.
I wanted to go back to the city.
Mm-hmm.
That was always my plan.
I was gonna stay in Sarnia forever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I am like back in the city andkeep ending up at the hospital,

(23:58):
show up to interviews drunk.
Can't do anything like, yeah, Iremember I tried to go out to meet
my friends and I couldn't go intothe subway 'cause I was falling over.
Like I couldn't walk down the stairs.
I was falling over andI had to like, yeah.
I didn't even tell my friendsI couldn't meet up with them.
I just went home and kept drinkingand didn't even tell them I

(24:18):
wasn't gonna meet up with them.
Like I literally, I was probably likeyou, like you couldn't leave your house.
At a certain point I couldn't do anything.
Mm-hmm.
There was nothing I could do.
Yeah.
And I think that's when I got likereally fed up with it and was like, okay.
I think, I think the last thingI haven't tried yet is rehab.

(24:38):
So I think that's where we gotta go now.
The strongest of drugs.
Yeah.
When you're falling over like that.
Yeah.
This is an interesting thing with.
Uh, addiction because you startand you show up to things drunk.
You do?
Yeah.
Or tipsy.
And you're good.
And like, then everyone starts drinkingand you're like, okay, perfect.
Yeah.
Now no one knows, like, no one I canfit into this, but it does happen

(25:00):
where you just start showing up tothings way more drunk than you thought
you were going to or wanted to be.
Yeah.
And then you're falling overand you're well, because you
just can't control it anymore.
You can't, you can't control it.
And even like, I, like, even like,I would go on dates and I would
drink and I'd be like, okay, I'monly gonna drink one glass, and I
would drink an entire bottle of wine.
Mm-hmm.
And I'd be in the Uber andbeing like, fuck, fuck.

(25:21):
I did it again.
I did it again.
Yeah.
And I, I don't, and I, drinkingme is like, you can handle it.
Mm-hmm.
You're fine.
Exactly.
Like, you're gonna have timein the Uber to sober up.
And I'm like, now I have towalk into this restaurant or bar
and be like, hi, how are you?
Like, so masking sobriety until like, weget a drink and then I'm like, yeah, I
don't, it's like it just takes over you.

(25:44):
Mm-hmm.
And you can't control it.
And that's what was happening to me.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
Like I'm drunk as fuck.
I am like, I think I call my mom andI'm like, Hey, like I can go to rehab.
Let's do it.
I agree.
We should go.
When you're having, when you're sober,you're lying in bed in the morning,

(26:05):
you wake up and you're sober ish.
Are you having lucid moments whereyou're like, fuck, I need to go to rehab?
No.
I don't know what switch happenedto me when I was like coming, like
moving back to Toronto when I waslike, okay, I need to go to rehab.
I don't know what happened.
Okay.
Thank God, like a god moment happened andI like saw that I needed to go to rehab.

(26:26):
Like, okay.
It wasn't fear based.
It wasn't like you werethrowing up somewhere.
It wasn't the hospital.
There wasn't a thing.
It was just like, okay, I'm done.
Well, it was probably just like, fuck.
I thought I would move to the city and geta job and have my friends back and like be
able to like drink like a normal person.
Like I thought, likeSarnia was my problem.
I thought.
I needed to come back to thecity, but I couldn't do it.
I was showing up placesdrunk, I couldn't get a job.

(26:48):
Mm-hmm.
I ended up at the hospital again.
I couldn't even see my friends.
I couldn't do anything.
Yeah.
So I was like, Hey, fuck, I need to, Itried therapy, I tried everything else.
The only thing I haven't tried is rehab.
Let's go.
And I'm drunk as hell, calling my mom,being like, Hey, I wanna go to rehab now.
Let's do it, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
I'm ready.
And then I think I like call a rehaband that same day I show up there

(27:16):
without, and like, I'mcoming, I'm on my way.
Yeah.
They did not say, yeah, come on.
They were like, uh, no, you haveto go to the hospital and detox
first, and then you can come.
Okay.
I didn't listen to them.
I just went straight there.
Yeah.
And they refused to take me.
Obviously.
I was like banging on the door.
I did you Uber there?
Yeah, I, I did.

(27:38):
Okay.
But then when I got there.
I lost my phone somehow.
Uhhuh, I got there, lost my phone.
I had to bang on someone's doorby like the rehab, like there
was like in a housing complex.
I knocked on someone's door hammeredas hell and I was like, you guys need
to take me home or to a hospital.

(27:59):
I don't know what to do.
Mm. I don't remember if theydrove me home or to a hospital.
I think they drove me to a hospital.
Just a random person.
Yeah.
Wow.
Drove me to the hospital and then I stayedthere for a few hours until like I sobered
up a bit, but then like they weren'tcoming to me and I was just like, yeah.
Fucking shaking so hardthat I couldn't wait there.

(28:22):
I didn't have my phone,I didn't have anything.
Yeah.
So I went back home and then myparents are coming 'cause they like,
are like, what the fuck is happening?
And I think they got into contact withthe rehab and they told me that we can go
again now that at it's been like a day.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
And yeah, they just show up and Iquickly like put together a bag.

(28:45):
I'm like shaking, throwingup, hung over as hell.
Okay, I can't pack a proper bag.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I'm just throwing shittogether and I'm like, Hey, I don't
know if this is even gonna last.
I don't know how long I'm gonna bethere, but let's just fucking go.
I don't need anything.
Yeah.
I'm going to rehab.
What do I need?
Yeah.
Nothing.

(29:05):
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah.
Um, and I think I just like trulywent there because I didn't know
what else to do when I went there.
I had no idea that I needed to be sober.
Like that wasn't even a conceptthat like really was one that I
could handle until a week in there.
I was like, okay, so bred, Ican't drink like a normal person.

(29:26):
Mm-hmm.
And the only way I can live thislife is if I don't drink ever again.
I was like, that's crazy.
It's crazy.
That's a crazy conceptto come to terms with.
Yeah.
And I definitely didn't.
Know that going in there, and Idefinitely only came to terms with that.
Like a weekend.
You thought you were gonna go to rehab andthen be able to I didn't know anything.
Okay, okay, okay.
Okay.

(29:46):
Yeah.
No, I'm not like judging how you felt,but it's like the thought, it, what it
seems is like, oh, you're going hereto just drink like a normal person or
like get better or like fix something,but the drinking will still happen.
I just like, I didn't knowwhat it was gonna entail.
Yeah.
I think, I think I was just going, yeah.
Because I didn't know what else to do.
Yeah.
Um, and then I, yeah, I came toterms with the fact that I can never

(30:08):
drink again and that, like, I learnedabout what addiction is and what
alcoholism is and, um, rehab was fun.
Yeah.
Um, what was your first day in rehab like?
I just like laid in bed.
Because you were hungover?

(30:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I laid in bed, I watched tv, I slept.
Oh yeah.
You didn't have your phone?
I didn't have my phone.
Whew.
No, I went into rehab with no phone.
I still didn't know what my phone was.
You got like three calls a day, I think.
Okay.
Um, but I didn't use a calluntil like one weekend.
'cause I didn't wannafucking call anybody.
Yeah.
Who am I gonna call?

(30:49):
Yeah.
That's like everyone at my rehabwas like getting visitors and
like going out for the day andI'm like, mm, I don't need that.
Yeah.
I actually don't need the outside world.
Like, I need to be alone by myself.
Like, why are you guys going?
Home's weird.
Yeah.
I just, I, I guess I was just likescared to like talk to anybody.
'cause I was like in disbeliefthat I even made it to rehab.

(31:10):
I guess.
I was like, oh my God.
Like, yeah, this is a lot.
Were you ashamed?
I think I, I knew Iwas doing a good thing.
It was just like crazy for me tobe like, yeah, I'm in rehab guys.
You know?
Yeah.
Everyone's like, good.
Yeah.
Everyone like, I knew it wasa good thing that I was doing.
Yeah.
But it was just like a lot.

(31:32):
So I think I just, I gave myself like alot of time before I had any phone calls.
Mm-hmm.
Um, did you make friends?
I made a friend.
I made friends.
Yeah.
Like after that week, I definitelylike loosened up a little bit more
and made friends and started to like,understand what it was all about.

(31:54):
Yeah.
Me and this girl had crushes on like thesebrothers that were in there, so I love
it that siblings went to rehab together.
Yeah.
So chaotic, so crazy.
So yeah, I've like, liked thesky and he seems like cool.
He's been around so he,what does that mean?

(32:15):
Like he's been to rehab before.
Okay.
He a retread.
I like felt that I could like, relyon him to like, show me what to do.
Yeah.
Which was nice.
When you go to rehab, youfeel like so vulnerable.
You feel like a baby.
You're wearing sweatpants all day.
You feel like, uh, I mean, youkind of feel like, here take it.

(32:36):
Yeah.
Now I'm just gonna float around in here.
And you, you, you really dofind guidance from people.
Yeah.
Like you trauma bond with a lot of people.
Yeah.
It was really nice.
Like, I definitely opened up to mycounselor and like, just like, I think
just like let everything like go, I think.
And just like, I think she really allowedme to just focus on myself and not like,

(33:02):
I also learned like a little bit ofboundaries with that one friend in rehab.
Like I had to tell her.
Because she was getting jealous.
I was talking to this one guy and I'mlike, I'm not talking to him like that.
Like I had to kind of Yeah.
Understand boundariesa little bit in rehab.
I just like got a little bitfamiliar with doing life without

(33:22):
alcohol in a controlled space.
Yeah.
Which was really nice.
Yeah.
Was there a moment because, okay, 'causewhat I know about you and from like your
childhood is that like you're reallygood at making friends, but then you go
to high school and now you're drinking,so all friends or whatever social thing
you're in, it's all drinking and drugs.

(33:43):
Mm-hmm.
When you go to rehab, are youlike, how am I gonna do this?
I mean, I think, um, I was justlike so nervous what the people
were gonna be like in there.
I think.
Yeah.
Like when I showed up to rehab, Iheard someone screaming and like.
In rehab and I was like, oh no.
Like what rehab am I in?

(34:03):
It also, like I didn't picklike a pretty rehab Like yours.
Yeah.
I picked like a crappy one ina toco that was like hard hit.
And yet same price and yet, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Same price.
I mean, 'cause yours wasn'tactually legit and mine was.
Yeah.
Well, is yours private?
Yeah.
Uh, I think there is optionsto like, have funding for it.

(34:26):
Funding because I, I, when there islike, when the government is involved,
there are like rules, regulations.
You cannot Yeah.
Have sex with clients there.
Like Yeah.
Mine wasn't like totally private.
Yeah.
You could either pay or like getlike wait for funding to go there.
You had a doctor there?
Yeah.
You had a doctor, A real life doctor.
A real life doctor.
The whole time?
Yes.
They were walking around or chilling?

(34:47):
I, maybe not the whole time, butI remember seeing a doctor there.
Were there nurses or anything there?
Like on staff?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
That sounds to me.
Yeah.
Like I remember like, there was aguy that was severely um, detoxing.
Detoxing and like the co theambulance had to come and take
him because like, it was too much.
How was your detox?

(35:07):
I just like slept forever.
Yeah.
And, um, did they give you meds?
Like sweat A lot.
I, they would always come in andask me if I wanted medication
and I said no every time.
'cause I was just like, I don't,you're like, no, I'm sober.
I know I'm sober now, guys.
Haven't you heard?
I actually don't believe in Advil.
Yeah.
It's not good for my body.
I don't think I took anything.

(35:28):
I think I just like, Iremember sweating a lot.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I remember having nightmares likeevery, like, I think I had dreams about
murdering people for a week every day.
Murdering people.
Who were you murdering?
My family, my friends.
Okay.
Like everyone in rehab, like Iwas, I was, it was nightmares.

(35:52):
It was horrifying.
Yeah.
And everyone in rehabsaid it was like normal.
Um, but yeah, they happened.
That continued for maybelike a week or two.
It's normal.
Yeah.
It's horrifying and normal.
You were there for a month.
I was there for 30 days.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And on your 30th day, how did you feel?
I felt excited to like geta phone and text my rehab

(36:14):
boyfriend that was out before me.
Yeah.
Were you ready to leave?
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Because like he was out.
Okay.
So I was like, Hey, Ineed to like get out too.
If he wasn't in the picture, wouldyou, you have been ready to leave,
do you think you'd be ready toleave or would you be freaked out?
But I think I would just, like,I was relying on someone else.
Yeah.
I wasn't relying on myselfif it wasn't for him.

(36:35):
I would rely on a friend, youknow, if I didn't have a partner,
I would rely on a friend.
Yeah.
I couldn't rely on myself yet,which means I wasn't actually
doing any of like, the real workthat I was gonna have to do later.
Mind you, it's so scary Zoe to like, yougo to re I mean, for me, I was terrified,
but I'm also terrified of everything.
But you're in like, you're great.
Like you're, you're in rehab,you're in your little ecosystem.

(36:57):
There is no alcohol or drugs.
You can't get it.
Mm-hmm.
So there's no way ofyou even being sneaky.
So the sneaky addiction isn't there.
I think to go to rehab and be like sosecure for 30 days and like, you're
good to go and then to leave and you'relike, I have to go back into the big
open world where there's drugs andalcohol flying around me everywhere.
Like, I don't, I, I only trust myselfbecause I'm here and like I don't have it.

(37:19):
So getting back out into the realworld, what was that like for you?
I think I just was like, Hey, I'm gonna,I, like I, my parents picked me up.
We went and got a phone for me.
That was the first thing.
And then we went to the sushi restaurant.
And ate and they didn't drink theone and only time they didn't drink.
Were they excited to see you?

(37:40):
They didn't know what to say, obviously.
Yeah.
I didn't know what to tell them either.
I'm like, yeah, I guess I'mnot drinking ever again.
Guys like, yeah, let's just, let's do it.
Let's go.
Wow.
Um, I remember my counselor inrehab was like, so your dad's
very concerned that he does that.
You don't understand thatyou can't drink again.

(38:02):
Wow.
I'm like, yeah, well,obviously I, I get that.
Yeah.
He's like, she was like, yeah,like she wants you to know
that you can never drink again.
I'm like, yeah, I'm in rehab.
He probably saw somethingin you though that was Yeah.
Or maybe you said something whenyou were drunk and going to rehab.
Yeah.
That was like conducive to like,I'm not gonna stop drinking.

(38:25):
Yeah.
I'm just gonna handle my drinking better.
Maybe you said something like that.
Yeah, because that's interestingbecause that is kind of what you.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, and then also like my dad likewrote me this letter being like,
oh, I stopped talking to you becauseI just figured that you were gonna
die one day and I needed to distancemyself before I just found you dead.

(38:46):
Oh.
I just like, make, gave me shivers.
I know.
And that like, really when mycounselor gave me that letter in
rehab, that like really made me sad,but also made me, it was nice to know
that that's why he was doing that.
Yeah.
You know, it made sense.
I was like, yeah, ofcourse he had to do that.
Like, he had to protect himself first.

(39:08):
Yeah.
He was preparing to lose you.
Yeah.
Um, fuck.
Anyways, going into the real world,I was just like, okay, I have my
rehab boyfriend, I have my rehabfriends and I got this and we got
this and everything's gonna be okay.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
My rehab boyfriend showed me like meetingsto go to, um, the city he lived in Otoko.

(39:29):
Okay.
So, but he would come down,like he would stay with me
maybe three, four nights a week.
Mm-hmm.
I would stay with him.
Um, that's nice.
That's helpful.
But I was probably going to like fivemeetings a week at the beginning.
I That's so crazy.
Yeah.
It was a lot, but it was somethingthat I could do with him.

(39:54):
Yeah.
You know, and it was like, he, he, like,everyone was just telling me that I
needed to like, go to meetings, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so that's what I was doingand I got a job at that time.
So I had to stop goingto as many meetings.
He got me a, like his sponsor, um,he asked his sponsor who, like if

(40:18):
he knows anybody to sponsor me, andthen he gave him a recommendation
and I texted her and I met up with mysponsor and, oh, that's your sponsor.
He found you?
This sponsor?
Yeah.
Oh, he did?
Oh, cute.
That's really helpful and nice.
Yeah.
He was like reallymotivated for a sec there.

(40:38):
He, well, yeah, he, he was, yeah.
He knew what he had to do to be sober.
Mm-hmm.
And he taught me everything.
Yeah.
And he laid it all out for me.
And he was like, here's your sponsor.
Well, he didn't say, here's your sponsor.
Like, I went and meet and met herand I was like, okay, I like you.
Let's go.
Yeah.
Um, and then when he, honestly, like, Ifeel like I was born again in rehab, you

(41:04):
know, and I just like met this guy and Ikind of didn't know if we were fully like,
gonna do this thing together, you know?
Yeah.
Like, do I like you or am arewe just like in rehab together?
Yeah.
You know, like I, I knewthat in the back of my head.
Yeah.
I wasn't stupid, I wasn't naive about it.
Um.
And I think that honestly, hemay have knew that as well.

(41:27):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Like he, he did end up relapsing andI was so early in my sobriety, I think
I was what, three months sober atthat point, so I didn't stick around.
Um, did that at all make youwanna drink or did that make you
negotiate at all in your brain?
No.
Okay.
I was like, oh my God,I can't be with him.

(41:49):
Yeah.
I was like, oh my God, no.
Like, that's not happening.
I'm not doing that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I wonder too, because it's like yoursober buddy, you, you're trauma bond.
If they relapse, are you like, I'll go to,no, because my friend relapsed first and I
was like, Hey, I'm not like, I don't know.
I, I didn't want to Yeah.
Relapse.
Mm-hmm.

(42:10):
No.
Like I had made it this farguys, I wasn't gonna relapse.
That's so good.
Were you, um, nervous you were goingto, like, when you were leaving rehab,
were you like, oh, I'm gonna be sober?
Or were you like.
I don't know.
I mean, I didn't know howI was gonna stay sober.
Yeah.
I was like hoping that I wasgoing to, I didn't know how.
And then when my, so like I was relyingon my rehab boyfriend for everything for

(42:34):
three months after I got out of rehab.
Yeah.
When he relapsed, I really had tolean on my sponsor and do the work.
And that's when I reallylike started applying myself.
Mm-hmm.
And working the steps andgetting everything done.
Yeah.
And that's when I reallystarted to like feel confident.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh shit.

(42:54):
Like I don't have to rely on anybody else.
Like, I'm good.
I got this thing.
And it was like nice to like,have a routine of sobriety.
Really.
Like go to her house every, I don'teven know what, what day I would go.
Maybe on Mondays I would go to herhouse once a week and then I would
go to my meeting every Wednesday.
And it was just like a nice littleroutine I was having in my sobriety.

(43:16):
Yeah.
I was making like friends at the meetings,but a lot of them were like guys, which is
interesting because I probably was stilllike, wanted like the male attention.
Totally.
Because I was still early in sobriety.
When you're early in sobriety, youliterally so fucking vulnerable.
Yeah.
It's insane.
You've kind of like fixedeverything a little bit.

(43:38):
A little bit or like you'vetouched on everything a little bit
and you're like, I'm good to go.
And then you're like,I need him to love me.
Yeah.
And I just saw him bashhis face into a wall.
Why do I need him to love me?
But yeah, I, um, so I thoughtlike everything was perfect.
I was doing my amends.
I was like completing the steps.
I was good.

(43:58):
Mm-hmm.
This is maybe like ayear after being sober.
I got my year.
I'm feeling good.
Um, and now I don't think I needthe meetings anymore because
I have a year under my belt.
Mm-hmm.
And I stopped going to meetings.
I blame it on like, I'm too busy.
Um, this guy I was seeing, hewas coming over every Wednesday

(44:22):
nights now and making me dinner.
Okay.
So I was like, oh, I can't go tomy meeting because he's making
me dinner every Wednesday.
Mm-hmm.
I just like stopped.
Isn't that interesting?
You like, prioritize a guy.
Yeah.
Over the work.
Well, I was like, I did the work.
Mm-hmm.
I'm a year sober now.
I don't need it anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So stupid.

(44:43):
And maybe I didn't believeI didn't need it anymore.
I just like felt like maybe I needed abreak, but I was just like, I can't do it.
I can't do it anymore.
Yeah.
And so I didn't go to a meeting for maybefive months at that, like five month mark.
I was being very addict.
Okay.
I was being very like.
Selfish.
Mm-hmm.
Everything needed to go my way.

(45:04):
I needed to be in control of everything.
And, um, just like being likevery moody and like up and down.
Yeah.
Um, and then I was in Sarniawith my friends and I got into a
fight with my friend's boyfriend.
Mm-hmm.
And I never like, have fights withanybody, you know, I try to like
keep it very peaceful in my life now.

(45:26):
And that like just really triggered mea lot because it happened in Sarnia too,
at the beach I used to get fucked up at.
Right.
You know?
Yep.
And he was screaming atme and I felt so tiny.
Mm. And I had to take a stepback from that situation.
I was like, I'm going upstairsand I need to get a diet Coke.

(45:46):
Yeah.
Stat stats.
Mm-hmm.
So I leave him on the beach, he'sfucking yelling at me for no reason.
And then I go home and I open myparents' s liquor cabinet and.
Like, I've opened thatso many times before.
Right.
So I'm like muscle memory.
I don't, yeah.
I don't even think that I went thereknowing that I was going to open it.

(46:08):
I just did it and I really didcontemplate it for a little bit.
And then I went and I reachedfor the Diet Coke instead.
And I think when I reached forthat, I knew in that moment like,
I need to fucking go to a meetingas soon as I get back to the city.
So I went back down there, I calmed hisass down and I, that trip was ruined.

(46:31):
Yeah.
Because of what happened with him.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I just like reallywas anxious to get back to the
city to go back to my meetings.
And that happened last summer,so I think it's almost been
a year since that happened.
Mm-hmm.
And ever since then, I'vebeen going to my meetings.
Every single Wednesday.

(46:52):
Yeah.
If I don't go on a Wednesday,I go on a Saturday.
Last week I went toWednesday and Saturday.
Oh.
I, um, I think now I reallyrealize that it's has to be
something I do in my life forever.
And it's not just like a phase.
Yeah.
Like it can't just fixme and then I leave it.
Um, it's a continual thing forme and I do really like it.

(47:12):
Now I'm in the meetings and I have femalefriendships and like those are so special.
Yeah.
Like I didn't gravitate tothe men this time around.
I really gravitated to the woman.
And I just, I feel very safe and I feellike I have a purpose when I'm in there
too, because like I want to help everybodyand be helpful for new people coming in.

(47:35):
Um, and I think now I amso good in my sobriety and.
Like, even like way every day.
I just like, I feel better becausewhen things happen to me Yeah.
Uh, I know what to do.
I know I have to like call mysponsor and like do another step
four or like just get it out.

(47:56):
Yeah.
And not ruminate on it because whenI ruminate I will get triggered
and potentially relapse again.
You know?
Yeah.
So I think just having all those toolsand the fact that that did happen
to me last summer made it so clearto me that if I stop going to the
meetings, I will become a crazy personagain and that will lead me to drink.

(48:17):
Yeah.
And I'm just really happy that Ididn't drink last summer because that
would've been a fucking shit show.
Yes.
Um, and yeah, I'm just like really fuckinghappy where I'm at and I'm so happy for
the people that I have in the program.
Yeah.
And like, just like having thatto lean on and I think like

(48:37):
that is why I am sober today.
For sure.
Hmm.
This is so good, Zoe.
Yeah.
I'm so proud of you.
Yeah, it's so nice.
Like when we, um, met with our friendthe other day and she's your friend,
but she's like now my friend too.
Yeah.
And we just like met and it waslike we were all just jumping
and so excited to see each otherand I'm like, this is so cute.
World.
Like dumb and sober and likethrilled to be together.

(48:59):
Yeah.
Ugh.
I couldn't have it any other way.
Yeah.
Like there's so many blessingsthat come with being sober.
Um, it's like insane.
I would've never thought thatlife could be this good sober.
The switch is fucking insane.
Is there anything now that you wishyou didn't have to be sober for?

(49:24):
Like are you, is there any likeregret or resentment or like, damn,
I wish I could drink at that thing,but I can't 'cause I'm not normal.
I don't think so.
Yeah.
I think, right.
Like now I just get worried about,I don't know, I get worried when
things like trigger do trigger me.
Yeah.
I'm like, fuck, I needto cut that in the butt.

(49:44):
You gotta cut in the butt.
First year to rehab.
Mm-hmm.
Getting sober.
You're good to go.
And you've said this too, it's likethe first year I find the lead up.
Yeah.
To year one.
Scared the shit outta me.
Yeah.
I was like really excited to get it.
Yeah.
And then when I hit year one, I waslike, I woke up the next, next day.
Okay.
What now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was like, now what?
I just did all of that and I'm at a year.

(50:06):
Do I keep going?
Do I stay?
Is this the thing?
Mm-hmm.
It feels really strange.
You're like leading up to a thing andnothing really happens except you're
sober and you're like, I guess, okay.
I guess I keep going.
And then I think real life starts.
Yeah.
Like after you hit your year, thenyou're like, now I'm really in the world.
Yeah.
I've got a year under my belt.
I now I have to navigate relationships.

(50:28):
Yeah.
And get triggered and probablyfucking start dating again.
Yeah.
And like, yeah.
You know, I know like this wholething with dating is even like a
testament to like my sobriety too.
It's like, what can I handle?
Like, am I gonna, me caring forsomeone else is a really big thing
for me because I haven't caredabout someone else in my whole life.

(50:50):
I didn't love my boyfriends.
I loved that they drank with me.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't care about them.
Yeah.
Let's be real.
I didn't.
Yeah.
Um, so now I'm finally caringabout someone that's not my friend.
Like I would, I always caredabout my friends, I think truly.
Yeah.
Like my friends stuck by me because I wasa good, they knew I was a good person.

(51:11):
Yeah.
In the bottom of my heart, behindthat demon who was an alcoholic.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but like, I've nevercared for a man this way.
Yeah.
And it's very hard forme for some reason, but.
I really do like him, and it'sreally like, just, it's, it's
another learning lesson for me.

(51:32):
This chapter of my life is like, okay,how, how am I gonna navigate this?
Yeah.
Does it feel, does it feel scaryto you to, to be vulnerable
with him or to, to really care?
Like what is the I think it, it isdefinitely, it makes me scared that like

(51:52):
he's gonna leave me or if I like put toomuch into it, like, what's in it for me?
You know?
Well, that's the thingwith alcohol, right?
It's like I'm controlling my alcohol.
Mm-hmm.
It's never gonna leave me.
Yeah.
It doesn't leave me until I say, itleaves me, and like, if you try to
take it from me, I will cut you out.
I've told my mom that so many timeswhere she's asked like, are you upset

(52:14):
or disappointed that I didn't forceyou into rehab or something like that.
I'm like, girl, I would'vecut you out so fast.
Yeah.
And I think my parents knew that,like, they always brought up like.
Taking me to rehab,like went in university.
Mm-hmm.
And they knew that they couldn'tdo anything because if they like
threatened to do that, I would screamin their face and like, I like held

(52:36):
a knife to my arm in front of them.
You know, like I was a crazyperson and they were scared of me.
I think my parents are stillscared of me because they know I
can switch at any fucking second.
Yeah.
Um, it's trauma for them too, you know?
Oh.
I put them through so much shit.
Mm-hmm.
Bro.
Like, even just like havinga knife up to me and standing

(53:00):
in front of my parents Yeah.
Is just like, so I can't imagineAnd I would like scream at them
and blame them for everything.
Yeah.
Well, you have to.
I didn't know.
I couldn't blame it on myself.
I don't know.
I mm-hmm.
I, I think like at the end of the day.

(53:20):
Like if you're an alcoholic, ifyou're going down that path, yeah.
You're gonna hurt people.
Mm-hmm.
And now I'm like, I made my amendsto them obviously, but now it's like
showing them that I'm not just gonnarelapse when something hurts my feelings.
Yeah.
You know, like we would get hurt,we wouldn't like a situation and
we would go drink about it andthen this cycle would continue.
Mm-hmm.

(53:40):
Which is showing them that like,we're not gonna do that anymore.
Yeah.
So that they can kind oftrust us and believe us again.
Mm-hmm.
And believe that I'm not goingto scream into their face.
Yeah.
It is very scary to like, havea kid that's going through it.
'cause Yeah.
The screaming in the face, like,and and at some point, yeah.
My parents just stopped sayinganything to me about any issue I was

(54:02):
having, eating, drinking, whatever.
Because it was like, yeah,she's gonna fucking blow up.
Yeah.
And so like, do we want to scream ateach other right now or do we wanna
just like, I don't know, watch tv?
It's literally just like walkingon eggshells with a person.
And I will say this, that.
Is a thing that, like my parents havesaid to me, it's so hard to be around you.
Mm-hmm.
We have to walk on eggshellsaround you all the time.

(54:23):
You just exploded nowhere.
Yeah.
First of all, I'm like, wheredo you think I learned that?
But second of all, like,yeah, I was struggling.
Like when you're an addict, I thinkfor me especially, I mean for, I
don't just, I just don't wanna speakfor everybody, but like, it do, it
did feel like it was happening to me.
Happening to me, to me.
Yeah.
I thought, yeah, I wasthe victim in all of this.
Yeah.
Which a little bit you are in a sense,because it's like you're an alcoholic,

(54:46):
it's a disease, disease of a sort.
You, it hap it doesn'thappen to everybody.
Some people, you know, Julia cansit here and drink a bottle of wine
with me and have a bad night andwatch tv, and she's gonna go home and
then go to Pilates in the morning.
Oh.
I'll be drinking the rest ofher alcohol in the morning.
Like, it, it does feel like, why me?
I can't stop.

(55:06):
Like, why do I have to wake up inthe morning and need alcohol before?
I do anything at all.
Yeah.
Like, fuck that.
Why is that happening to me?
So it does feel in thosemoments when you're fighting
and they're like, stop drinking.
You're like, fuck you.
You made me like, yeah, exactly.
I didn't want, I didn'task to be born to be.
And then it gets crazy.
Yeah.
And you're like, you two.
Yeah.

(55:27):
No, like it was, I wasa little psychopath.
Yeah.
And it just like, but like truly, Ireally do think that the moment I started
like I was gonna be psychotic, you know?
Yeah.
That's a really interesting one.
And I wonder how manypeople are like that.
Some of it's genetic.

(55:48):
Yeah.
Some of it's just like, I, like,it's genetic and I felt like
I didn't fit in growing up.
Mm-hmm.
And then I had to like, go somewhereelse where I didn't fit in and it was
just like something that helped me once.
Yeah.
It grounded you And it groundedme once and then I just
like fucking kept doing it.
Yeah.
And then I woke up one dayand I couldn't stop it.

(56:10):
That's how it gets you.
Yeah.
But it serves you for a while.
You needed it like mm-hmm.
Needed, whatever.
Yeah.
But you did.
Yeah.
You needed what it was doing for you.
You liked it, it washelping you stay grounded.
It was helping you stay sta feel stable.
Yeah.
And then it turned on you.
Yeah.
And it like, I really, it justlike, it was a quick turn.
Yeah.
Everything just happened soquick that I couldn't control it.

(56:33):
That feeling.
Do you get that feeling in your throatthat like pain when you, like there's
no alcohol in the house and you'relike, oh my God, it's almost midnight.
I have to get something and you're like,I don't have any, and it like hurts.
I used to get these like, probably'cause that's where my anxiety is, like
my throat would like get closed andI'm like, your throat anxiety girl.
Me, my EpiPen, you know, like seriously.

(56:55):
Wow.
No, it's, it's such a good, how is yourrelationship with your parents now?
I mean, it's like better.
I. Yeah.
We don't, like, we don'ttalk about everything do you?
And I feel like they're stilla little bit scared of me.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, it's way betterthan like, even a year ago.
And, uh, I'm not putting blameon you in your addiction.

(57:18):
Mm-hmm.
But do you feel like, while, do you feellike you've kind of put an imprint on
your family a little bit, where it'slike gonna be hard to push it back out?
Like are you, do you think itruined a relationship in some way?
I just think that, like, I didn'thave much of a relationship
with them in Oakville.

(57:38):
Okay.
'cause I, we really didn't like,spend a lot of family time together.
I don't remember havinga lot of family time.
I was so busy with skating.
My brother was in hockey.
Mm-hmm.
There was so much going on.
My parents were working, I don't know.
And then in Sarnia, I neverhad a relationship with them
because I resented them.
And now I'm like trying to like builda relationship with them finally.

(57:59):
Yeah.
And it's like, it's hard because I have.
Scarred them.
Sure.
And I don't know, it's likeI, I don't know if I relate on
much with them, to be honest.
Yeah.
They live in Sarnia.
I live in the city.
They don't understand the city at all.
Yeah.
Um, but like, I still love them andI like, like I talk about it with my

(58:19):
sponsor a lot 'cause I'm like, oh,like why is my relationship with my
family like not so perfect and strong?
And she's like, yeah.
Like, mine's not either babe.
Like Yeah.
It's not, just because you're soberdoesn't mean it's like perfect.
Mm-hmm.
You know, you have to work on therelationships and it takes time.
And if you do wanna work on it.

(58:40):
Then you will, then you're, you willwork on it, but you can't like force
it to be an amazing relationship.
Totally.
Yeah.
Because then it's like adding pressure andwe know what happens and we get pressured.
Yeah.
And when it's family, it's like so closeto home and your heart and you're like,
ah, I don't wanna feel that kind ofpressure, so let's just go with the flow.
Yeah.
But I mean, it's good and it's kind ofbeautiful that you do have the opportunity

(59:01):
to like rebuild a friendship with them.
A relationship.
Mm-hmm.
A family That is nice.
You know, it's nice because youwere just sick for so many years.
Yeah.
And now it's like they have Zoe back.
Yeah.
And you, it's hard, butyou're like, yeah, I guess I'm
reintegrating into the family again.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Like it's not like I wasn't invited tofamily things when I was drinking, but

(59:23):
like I would always ruin them and theywere always like looking out for me.
They're always like looking at how much Iwas drinking and taking it away from me.
And then I would like be sneaking abottle in the my grandparents' basement.
You know, like it was just.
It was just chaotic.
Yeah.
These people all around us beinglike, where are you getting that?
Literally like you showed upwith no bag and somehow you
are fucked outta your mind.

(59:43):
Like, how is this happening?
I know like it's such a chaotic time.
So chaotic.
But it like, I'm gonna bethree years sober in October,
which is absolutely crazy.
Well, what did you just say to me before?
You're like, I'm 16 daysaway from a thousand days.
Yeah.
That is the most amount of timeever, ever is a thousand days.
Three years.
No, no, no.

(01:00:05):
I was gonna try and do the math in myhead and I, my brain, I can't do it.
I heard myself in my head go stops.
Absolutely not.
But it's like a long time and I justthink that the more time I'm sober,
the more time I like forget thatthat was like my life and I think.
That's another good reason togo to meetings is like you,

(01:00:26):
there's always someone therethat will like spark a memory.
Like, oh yeah, that was fucking me.
Like some shit that we talk about.
Yeah.
And like you'll say somethingand I giggle about it.
Yeah.
Not because I think it'slike nonchalant and funny.
I'm like, yeah, I, yeah, there's,there's only one way to handle this.
And it's to laugh becauseI've done that too.
Yeah.
Like I've, you know, donethe dumbest fucking shit.
But I'm really proud of you.

(01:00:47):
And I do, I don't know if I'veactually told you this, but I do.
I'm gonna get emotional.
Aw.
Why does that just happen to me?
I can't handle this room.
We have to move.
I really do look up to you in sobriety.
Like, I, I think when we first met,and I knew you were younger than me,
I was like, oh fuck, she's youngerthan me and she's so ahead of me.
And I think that's a bigthing for me in life.
Like making sure that I am as good or likebetter than everyone who's like around me.

(01:01:13):
And like, so for the sobrietyof it all, I almost felt like.
And this is all me, right?
Yeah.
This is just me as an addict.
I'm like, oh, she's not gonna like respector think I'm cool or anything because
like, she's so much more sober than I am.
And like really?
Yeah.
Not even that much more sober than you.
No, but I think like, at the time.
Yeah.
What, however, however many monthsI had you, it just was astronomical.

(01:01:35):
Right?
How many more you had than me.
And I was like, oh, she's gonna thinkthat I'm just like, baby sober and I'm
not like, you know, it's like, yeah,give it a year and then see how it goes.
I, I just like felt judgment.
Yeah.
And that none of it came from you.
Yeah.
You were like, Hey, how are you?
I'm sober too.
And I was like, she hates me.
Like, there's no reason.
But the age thing was hard.

(01:01:55):
A little bit.
I mean, you're only four yearsyounger than me, but I was like,
how is she, and then I was like,she got sober so fucking young.
Like Yeah.
But I know people that got soberyounger than me, which is like insane.
Like Yes.
They got sober at like 2021.
Were you 20?
I was 23.
You were 23?
Yeah, I was 28.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I was like turning24 in like a month.

(01:02:17):
So like, technically 24,but I like to say 23.
I know one of my friends had abirthday in rehab and I, I was already
out and I sent her a obnoxiously.
Big damn words.
But yeah, I really do look up to youin sobriety and it's really, really
fucking nice to like have somebody.
Yeah, I think, yeah, I just like, Ilike talking to people who are sober
or trying to get sober and when I metyou I was like, oh my God, amazing.

(01:02:40):
Mm-hmm.
Like let's do this, let's do everythingtogether for your best and also
like you were cool and like talkingabout like your new profound like
sexual experiences and that's exactlywhat I was going through and I was
like, okay, I gravitate towards her.
Yeah.
We have some, we don't have, wedon't even just have sobriety in
common, but we have like, we wanna.

(01:03:02):
Be cool exploring sexual women as well.
We were both single.
We were both singleand having so much fun.
So I think.
Like, I'm always gonna be there for you.
Yeah.
Like no matter what, like, and I likewant to help you when you're struggling.
Yeah.
And I hope that you wannahelp me when I'm struggling.
Of course I do.
Yeah.
I think about you all the time.
I think about you all the time.

(01:03:22):
I was like, how's she doing?
Is she okay?
And then you call me andyou're just at the beach.
And I'm like, she's fine.
Uh, no.
Yeah.
I fucking love to have a sober companion.
I don't think, well, do you rememberwhen we, well, it was in January.
Yeah.
We didn't meet in January.
We had already met, but thenin January you were like, let's
go to the basketball game.
And I was like, yes.
I was like, okay, it's Jen, it'sJan first we're making a list.

(01:03:44):
And I was like, prioritize friendships.
Have you remember thatfirst two weeks Zoe?
I was so tired.
And we probably went to like abasketball game and two dinners.
Yeah.
And like maybe I had a facial that weektoo, and I was like, I am exhausted.
This is too much for me.
Yeah.
But now I get there.
But now you're like into it, like youhave like expanded your capacity for.

(01:04:08):
Socializing for socializing.
Really.
Like I know like the first yearfor you, you, it was very important
for you to like stay inside andnot have like anything expose you.
Yeah.
But now I think that you'rebecoming safe enough to like,
go into these environments Yeah.
And be, and feel safe because mm-hmm.
Why would you give up your sobriety?
Well, yeah, and that's what you said too.
'cause I was like, are you not likecraving when you're gonna these

(01:04:31):
raves or bars or clubs or whateveryou're doing with your friends, like,
and they're drinking around you.
Mm-hmm.
And you were like, well no, that'sthe point of AA kind of, it's like you
can live and exist in the world and doeverything you used to do, but sober.
Yeah.
And I'm like, yeah, that is, that is true.
Yeah.
And I'm just sitting in my bed, whichis what I was doing when I was drinking.
Yeah.
So let's, yeah, let's get outside.
Let's expand it.

(01:04:52):
I think that, I think likeyou shouldn't go to a bar just
to watch your friends drink.
Mm-hmm.
If you're.
If you are going to a bar towatch a hockey game or you're
going to a club to listen to themusic or you like the dj mm-hmm.
That's gonna be at this place.
Or you're going for a friend's birthdaythat you want to like dance with.

(01:05:12):
Yeah.
You, there has to be like a genuinereason why you're going somewhere.
Yeah.
Or else it's just like you'regoing to this bar because
you wanna watch people drink.
No, you're gonna drink.
Yeah.
You know, it's also very okayto say like, I'm not going.
Yeah.
And in my situation, I'm sure inyours too, if I told my friends,
like, I just don't feel up to it.

(01:05:33):
There's gonna be drinkingand I don't feel safe today.
It's happened before.
There was like a party andI was like, you know what?
I feel so weird.
Yeah.
And I just like, don't wannabe around any alcohol today.
Mm-hmm.
And that's just me andeveryone was super respectful.
Yeah.
And I feel really goodabout that decision.
Yeah.
And like you can say no 'causeeven you like, you're fine.
Like you, I feel like you're sosecure in your sobriety and like you

(01:05:53):
go out and you do things, but like.
There could be a day too, whereyou're just like, you know what?
I don't feel like beingaround alcohol right now.
Yeah.
And it's fine.
Well, like if, for example,if that thing that happened to
me in my personal life mm-hmm.
Two weeks ago, if I was out with myfriends and that person was calling
me names like that through text.

(01:06:14):
Yeah.
And I was out at a bar.
Oh fuck no.
Like I would have to like have ran home.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I would have to,like, I had need to go home.
You know, I can't be out in certainsituations when I'm not a hundred percent.
Yeah.
But.
For the most time now, nowadaysI am at a hundred percent.
Yeah.
It's so good.
Which is like amazing.
Yeah.

(01:06:34):
Take care of your addict friends.
Honestly, you don't have any bestfriends with them, but when people
get sober, it's very, it's difficult.
Yeah.
It's difficult to be sober.
We're still addicts.
We still have this likeweird secret disease.
Yeah.
Don't yell at me because yelling at me.
That's what ignites it.
Yeah.
So just like, and and yes, of courseas a sober person, we're not perfect.
We're gonna say thingsthat piss people off.

(01:06:55):
Yeah.
You are gonna get in fights,but fucking also watch it.
Yeah.
Like watch what you sayto me about my character.
'cause it's like, or like if you don'twatch it, then like, okay Lynn, I get it.
You don't care about me.
Yeah.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
Like it's cool, it's fine.
I don't need to be friends with everybody.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I think I'm realizing that now,like it's just like another lesson

(01:07:16):
that I'm realizing I don't need to befriends with any, everybody, just because
I've been friends with them forever.
Yeah.
You know, I really don't need to, yeah.
If they're not serving me, if they're not.
If they're making me stressed andanxious, why am I gonna hang out with you?
Yeah.
If I don't like what you said aboutme, why would I hang out with you?
Oh, you get to choose your friends.
That's what I get to choose my friends.

(01:07:37):
Now, before I you to choose everything.
Before I didn't.
I didn't have, I couldn't, Iliterally couldn't do anything.
No.
When we were at ourLois lowest rock bottom.
Rock bottom, I literallycouldn't do anything.
I was pissing myselfleft, right, and center.
Oh my God.
I couldn't even fucking use the bathroom.

(01:07:57):
Oh, it's crazy.
Yeah.
Whenever you say that we couldn't doanything, I'm like, yeah, I'm trying
to think of the things I could do.
I'm like, I can basically just likewalk 50 feet s to the dog park.
My scalp was like scabbedbecause I did, I didn't even know
how to wash my hair properly.
Okay.
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I will say this.
Listening to your whole story.
Mm-hmm.
I think that like you walkingto rehab by yourself, um, and

(01:08:21):
then you go to the hospital andthen your parents come get you.
I just feel like.
That whole thing.
Thank fucking God you went when you did.
Because the way that it was so chaotic andno one really knew where you were felt,
feels to me like you had like a week.
I know it.
I know.
That's so crazy.
But it does feel like you were well andlike gonna end up under a streetcar.

(01:08:43):
Thank God that I did have theresources to go to this rehab.
Yeah.
Um, because yeah, if I had tolike wait a week, I don't think I
would've stayed sober for that week.
That's the other thing, right?
Yeah.
It's like you make the call whenyour gut is like forcing you to
make the call and then you justgo, okay, I've already done it.
The money is transferred and we're going.

(01:09:04):
Yeah.
Think, yeah.
Thinking about it, waiting.
Even if I, I had, I gotin within two weeks.
If I had to wait two months, I'd be like.
Girl.
Yeah.
I think that's a really scary timefor people when they have to wait.
Yeah.
Because then you're, I think so too.
You're deciding whetheryou really wanna stop.
You're sh you're sh you're feeling shame.
You're trying to stop.
You're not, you don't have any tools.
You're scared to go to rehab.
Like, it's fucking scary.

(01:09:24):
I didn't even have time to be scared.
I was just like, Kay, fuck.
I ended up here.
Yeah.
I made it Jesus Christ forever.
A, I have a picture ofmyself going to rehab.
Yeah.
Like I have a picture of myselfin my downstairs at my old place,
the mirror for the elevator, and Iwas wearing all my giant clothes.
Yeah.
And I had like three bags with me andmy hair was in a bun, going to rehab.
Oh my God.
God.

(01:09:44):
It's crazy.
I think I took a pictureof myself like this.
Here I go, but wish me luck.
But I am really proud of you and I amreally grateful that you told that whole
story and there's, I've learned so much.
It's really wild.
I just wanna like go home andlike hug baby Zoe and like take
her back to Oakville and stay.
Stay here.
Stay here.
No, but like I said, like I thinkif I stayed in Oakville, I know

(01:10:07):
my friend in Oakville starteddrinking in high school and I know
that I would've just like, yeah.
Made a different excuse forit and just like kept drinking
there and overdid it as well.
I it the same thing I really do believewould've happened no matter what.
Yeah.
I don't blame my parents for gomoving me to like, it's not, I
didn't start drinking because likethat was just my one circumstance.

(01:10:30):
If I would've stayed in Oakville, I'msure the same thing would've happened.
Nature, nurture it really like it's notalways one, it's not always the other.
Yeah.
It probably would've got you.
And I think so.
Yeah.
And some kids get movedto different cities.
Yeah.
And start over in ninth gradeand, and don't become an addict.
Yeah.
So it doesn't really matter.

(01:10:50):
It's like however you feel the traumaor however, however it affects you.
Mm-hmm.
That turns you into an addict.
It's all different.
Yeah.
You know?
So interesting.
No, I was just like bornto be a little monster.
I know.
I still feel like you are a bitof a monster in like a cute way.
I'm a cute monster now.
Monster.

(01:11:11):
Like, either way I know I would'vedrank and loved it 'cause like Totally.
That's just what happened.
Like I, and I loved that feeling.
That's why started drinking so muchis because I loved that feeling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you recreate that feeling at all?
Or what's, do you love a feeling?
Is there a feeling you love to have?
Is it sobriety?
I guess now?

(01:11:31):
Yeah.
Or like, just like, I love going tobed when like, I love myself, you know?
I love to wake up.
I love to do skin.
Yeah.
Mm. I just like love to.
Do these things, knowing that I can dothem and like having that confidence in
myself is just like, un you can't it.

(01:11:52):
There's so much, can't beat it.
There's so much fucking freedomand sobriety that we thought we
were getting when we were drinking.
Yeah.
But it was just a prison ofour own doing in our own mind.
Like now this is freedom.
Now I can just run around the world.
Now I can just run aroundthe world naked, just plant.
You hate that to move it outta theway there was the pride bike ride.
Did you see any of those naked?
No, I didn't.
Did you?

(01:12:12):
No.
But I think about them all the time.
Yeah.
I think about nakedassholes on the bike seat.
We do a, here in Toronto, wedo a naked, naked bike getting
naked bike marathon for pride.
Yeah.
I, um, to support Nudists.
I think.
I haven't done that.
I haven't done any pride shit, by the way.
Oh.
What have you done thismonth to feel proud?

(01:12:33):
I went to Barry's withmy gay friend Brandon.
That counts.
And he said Happy pride.
And I said Happy pride.
Happy pride to you too.
And to all of you, happy pride.
Happy pride babe.
And if you haven't tried it, howdo you know you don't like it?
Try it once.
This is, Anne told me, try that was best.
Anne told me that I have to stop lookingat the camera and like going like that.

(01:12:53):
She's like, it's not necessary.
No.
That's how I yelled atmy boyfriend last week.
I was like, do you understand now?
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Do you get it?
Yeah.
That's how I talk topeople about politics.
I'm like, so what you're saying?
Yes, if I'm correct?
Mm-hmm.
And that's on that.
Okay.
Well Zoe, thank you so muchfor sharing your story.
I love you so much.
I hope that wasn't too chaotic,guys like it was a lot.

(01:13:14):
But you know, we talked about this lastweek a little bit after my episode.
Mm-hmm.
And you were like, yeah, bitch,of course it's gonna be chaotic.
You were drunk the whole time.
Or I was like, I couldn'tremember the timeline.
And you were like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were unconscious during the timeline.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
But I think, I think we, I thinkwe figured out a nice timeline.
I think we got it right in the bag.
Okay.

(01:13:35):
Okay.
Love you.
Love you.
Proud of you.
Of you.
Bye
drunk.
Thanks for listening to Girl Un Drunk.
You can follow us on Instagram andTikTok at Girl Un Drunk podcast.
And or send me an email [e-mail].