A Codependency

Episode Transcript
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Heather (00:00):
This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be
difficult for some listeners.
Please take care while listening.

Zoe (00:27):
Welcome back to Girl and Drunk.
I'm Heather.
I'm Zoe.
And we have not been here for a while.
It's been a while.
Do you guys like wannatell them what happened?
A lot has happened.
A lot has happened.
But do you guys like our couch?
Couch?
Look at our couch.
We have a big comfy couch.
We have so much room andthat means guests are coming.

(00:48):
That means we can have guests andthey will be on our pink chair,
which is really exciting and cute.
Yeah.
I feel like every time we dosomething in this room, it is
like it feels more and more real.
I like that a lot.
It does.
This couch is really comfy.
We had another couch back in theday and it was, it was too small.
It was too small.
We were like.

(01:08):
Very stuck together.
Yeah.
And we also, which we love, butnot, it didn't show good on camera.
It didn't show good on camera.
And I also think that like at thattime we weren't as close as we are now.
Right.
So like I was like, this feels a littlesquishy for our blooming friendship.
Yeah.
You know?
And now I think it's nice if likewe have a guest and we're not like
attached, attached at the hip.

(01:28):
It makes the guests feel more welcomed.
Yeah.
Because we're not like superclose and they're like, what
the fuck am I going into?
Yeah.
This is not a codependency.
You can come too.
It's a little bit of a codependency.
Well we all have to eventually find alittle bit of codependency, I think.
Right.
A healthy codependency.
Yeah, a healthy amount.
I think it's nice.
Yeah.
I have never found the balance.

(01:49):
The balance.
I mean, we're working on it.
Yeah.
I'm either like, let's do everythingtogether all the time or like I
would love to see you once a month.
Yeah.
For like two hours.
Not even once a month probably.
No.
I mean, the thing I've got goingnow is like once every four months
and I'm like, that's kind of nice.
That's nice.
You know, cash.
What are we drinking?
Okay, so today we aredrinking collective arts.

(02:09):
We've talked about it a littlebit, but collective arts.
Yeah.
Used to just be an alcoholic brand.
Mm-hmm.
And then they decided to jump intonon-alcoholic, some mocktails.
They do like, um, fake alcohol.
Like mojitos.
Yeah, like imitations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, well, what we've learnedfrom Gail Mock, mock is not allowed.
God, I really got myass handed to me there.

(02:29):
You really did.
She was like, excuse me madam.
How many times do I have totell you mock is for children.
If you didn't watch ourzero bar clips, watch them.
Yeah.
Go on TikTok and watch that.
Jill's amazing.
She's so cool.
I need her to come into this space.
And she will.
We'll have her in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or maybe she'll just take the micand do like a whole hour by herself.
Well, she, I was scared that she wasgonna take it, take over the podcast.
I know, but she really didn't.

(02:50):
And I guess that was like on mebeing insecure about Totally.
Like not having control, I guess.
Yeah.
But she did do really,she did such a good job.
She was amazing to come in and just beso confident about like the thing you do.
Mm-hmm.
It was so cool.
I really like that.
And that's like what we're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sometimes I feel like, I'm like,I say this all the time, like I'm
George Clooney, just like floating outinto space, but I'm like, no bitch.

(03:12):
You know exactly what you're doing.
Yeah.
You're sober, you're not drinking.
That's your thing.
Be a little bit more confident.
Be a little bit more confident.
Yeah.
But it's like, even if you're not evenconfident, like just act like you are.
Yeah.
Then you will.
Who said that?
One of like the celebritiessaid that, was it Rihanna?
Fake it till you make it kind of thing.
I mean, fake it till you make it.
Who would be the first,who's the originator of that?
My mom always says that like my mom isgoing through some stuff right now and

(03:35):
she's like, she's healthy, she's fine.
Mm-hmm.
But I was with her on the weekendand I was like, how are you?
And she's like, well.
You just gotta fake ittill you make it sometimes.
And I'm like, okay.
It's true.
It's true.
Like it is true.
And the more like positive talk you sayto yourself, the more positive you'll be.
So true.
So if you sit in like the negative,the more upset inside you're gonna be.
Yeah.

(03:55):
So if you fake it to yourself,even like you will be happier.
What is it like if you smile, itmakes your brain think you're happy?
Yeah.
You can like trick yourself.
I used to, when I was like fullyan eating, eating disorder.
Oh.
I was just like imagining youbeing so sad and miserable and just
smiling and looking at yourself.
I'm fine.
I'm having, I'm okay.

(04:16):
I'm so hungry and I'mjust, everything is fine.
When I was like full ineating disorder in Boston.
Yeah.
I used to run on the treadmill.
Mm-hmm.
You know who one time ran beside me?
Did we already talk about this?
Zaino Chara?
Who the fuck is that?
He's Chara.
He's a NHL player.
Oh.
And he's like extremely tall.
That's neither here nor there.
Was he hot?
I think.
Sometimes for me personally,when you get too tall, everything

(04:40):
starts to get a little bit scary.
Crazy.
Yeah.
Everything starts to just, we're evolvinginto a new species at that point.
It's true.
So he's not really for me.
Yeah.
I don't love tall.
Tall.
Do you have Tall?
Tall?
I mean, like, I did hook upwith that one, like OHL guy.
Okay.
Remember?
Did I tell you that story?
Mm. And he like was concussedso many times and his brain

(05:03):
was definitely not there.
Yeah.
But he was like big and tall and like hot.
So we ended up still hookingup and he totally lifted me up.
Oh.
And put my vagina just like in his mouth.
Wow.
While he was standing up andlike I was touching the ceiling.
I was like.
How do I get up here?
Okay.
I have to tell you, I'm on my periodright now and I don't know what's going
on with me, but this like round ofmy actual period, I've been so horny.

(05:27):
Horny.
How many times have you been jerking off?
Honestly, not like Ihaven't been interesting.
Just 'cause like when I have my period,I like don't wear a tampon to bed.
Like I wear period underwear to bed.
Right.
So I'm like, I don't wanna, yeah.
Yeah.
It's just too like messy andI'm like I don't need it.
But walking around feelinghorny is like kind of fun.
Yeah.
You know, like when I drive I'mjust like, but it's weird 'cause
isn't that like biologically wrong?
Like shouldn't you be hornywhen you're ovulating?

(05:50):
Yeah.
Well I feel like I get horny likeright before I get my period.
Like even one day before I'm probablyjerking off like, because it makes sense.
'cause if you're like horny, you'reovulating, you're looking for a mate.
Yeah.
But then why am I horny on my period?
Maybe my body just knows like, nah man,she's single so it doesn't really matter.
Yeah.
We're on a differenttimeline for this one.
Yeah.
You've been through like.

(06:11):
And now I think you'rejust like releasing.
I'm releasing.
And you're like, well let's,let's get back into it.
I know.
I feel interesting right now.
This is like the signature, likegirl and drunk dance, by the way.
I think it is.
It's uh oh.
Well what are we drinking?
What are we drinking?
That was a big turnaround.
Yeah.
But I loved it.
I think it was necessary.
It was.
So we're drinking collectivearts, black cherry, vanilla.
It's a little like spritzy mixed drink.

(06:34):
Yeah.
It tastes really good by itself.
Yeah, it's really good.
But we mix it up even more.
Yeah.
'cause we're crazy.
Yeah.
'cause we're making mocktails andit's, or we're making non-alcoholic
beverages and it's very fun.
The word mocktails just go scale.
And I'm sorry, I know's.
Zero proof.
I know.
But I think this is a little mocktail.
Look at it.
It's mach.
It is mach.
So yeah, we made a little mocktail.
So it's the black cherry vanilla.

(06:55):
We added some other,some other little things.
Go check out our TikTok.
Yeah.
If you want the recipe.
But collective arts.
So good.
Yeah.
Love, love, love.
It's a black cherry, vanilla fruit andF sparkling water with antioxidants,
electrolytes, zero sweeteners andno preservatives, which we love with
four essential vitamins and minerals.
Yeah, I love it.
Zero calories.

(07:16):
I know.
I love it too.
I love that.
I love that there's good stuff in it.
Electrolytes.
I don't drink water.
Yeah.
And then we made alittle, A little garney.
A little garney.
It's amazing.
Should we cheer?
It's amazing babes.
Okay, babe.
Oh my God.
Look at my hand.
I'm so can spill on our new couch.
I love you.
I love you.
O cheers.

(07:37):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Check out the TikTok for the recipe.
How are you?
How am I?
I am so happy that we're on theother side of your little depression.
Yeah, that was like a lot.
I know.
For, I'm sorry.
I was like, I hate seeing my friends like.
Stuck like that.

(07:58):
Yeah.
You know, and I hate not being ableto help people when they're down,
but like I love being there for you.
Yeah.
You know?
No, you were really helpful and Ithink like what we've both kind of
learned in this situation mm-hmm.
Is like for both of us, it's likewe have to let each other be,
be, and like just support howeverwe can go through the process.

(08:20):
Yeah.
'cause nothing you say.
Yeah.
Logically, intellectually, spiritually,nothing you say is actually
going to make me make a decision.
It's like I have to getthere and it's helpful.
Yeah.
And you being there is helpful,but it's gonna take just as long.
Yeah.
So I feel like that wasactually really nice.
Like you were there, I was able to talkto you, it was like the back and forth.

(08:41):
But um, yeah, I reallyappreciate you being there.
It's the same withquitting drinking, right?
A hundred percent.
It's the same.
Like I can never tell someone to quit.
They have to figure it out on their own.
But yeah, I. I feel really good.
I feel really motivated.
Like I think the podcast is amazing.

(09:02):
Mm-hmm.
Like your episode withyour Paige was amazing.
Yeah.
Like, I am really proud of that for you.
Thank you.
And Paige, let's hang out.
We can go to the gym together.
Like, oh God.
No, I'm down.
Okay.
She's crazy.
I know she, have you lookedat any of her Instagram?
She lifts like a few.
A lot of weight.
A lot of weight.
And she's a mother.
Crazy.
I know.
Um, but yeah.

(09:23):
I'm excited to go on my trip this week.
Yay.
I can't believe, I feel likeyou just got back from London.
I know.
And then all this shit happenedand then now you're going again.
I know.
For two weeks.
Right?
I know.
I'm gone for a really long time.
I haven't gone on a trip thislong, I think since going to
Australia when I was still drinking.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow, wow, wow.
Yeah.
Are you good with longtrips away from home?

(09:43):
Like, do you like that?
Are you good?
I don't know.
Like this is.
Gonna be a new thing for me in sobriety.
Right?
Yeah.
I haven't done this in sober, so I know.
And you're going to very likedrinking culturey places.
Yeah.
So like the Aperol spritz at lunch is likepretty relaxing, looking to be honest.
Yeah, it's good because.
When I go to Italy, I'm stayingwith my friend Francesca.

(10:05):
Mm-hmm.
And she barely drinks.
Okay.
Oh, that's nice.
She's also into lifting just like Paige.
Okay.
Yeah.
You guys are all gonna form alittle club and I'm not, yeah.
I'm not coming.
Like, me and Francesca are probably gonnago like running in the mountains and
like, I think she lives by the do mites.
What's that?
It's like the mountain range.
Okay.
In the north of Italy.
Mm. So I'll probably go on like hikesand it'll be really like relaxing.

(10:27):
That will be like therelaxing part of my trip.
Yeah.
And then I'll go to Portugal and meetup with my boyfriend who's also sober.
So it's like I'm with soberpeople the whole time, so I'm not
gonna feel like a certain way.
Yeah.
Um, that's the best part, which is nice.
And I know a lot of people, I'mgoing there for my friend's wedding.
I know a lot of people.
At the wedding.

(10:47):
So, and all of them know that I'm sober.
There's a famous persongoing to that wedding.
Right?
There is a famous persongoing to that wedding.
Gotta get him on the pod.
I'll talk to him about that.
Yeah.
I think he remembers me fromwhen I was a drunk and a stoner.
Listen, if anything we made an impact.
We, I really made an impact.
One.
Yeah.
So there's a way That's a famous person.
Yeah, it's very exciting.
I'm very excited for you.

(11:07):
I can't wait to see all your pictures.
I love Italy.
I really hope I get alot of good pictures.
You will.
I hope I get like a reallycute picture with my boyfriend.
I think he wants to me to post himon my main 'cause he's like sad.
He hasn't been in like one ofthe main pictures on my Instagram
and I'm like, you'll get there.
Come on.
How do you feel about men on your main?

(11:30):
If I look good, it can be on it.
Okay.
And if he looks good, it can be on it.
If we don't get a goodphoto at the wedding.
Sorry, I'm not gonnapost you on my main Yeah.
I don't know how I feel about it.
I think I feel, I thinkI feel weird about it.
I think I have postedmen on my main before.
Yeah.
Dating and then when webreak up I'm like, ah.
Like this is not thecurated life that I want.

(11:50):
Well then I can archive.
You can archive for sure.
But I like, I think we've beendating for over six months now,
so I feel like Good about it.
Yeah.
And like it's time.
He's probably moving in with me soon.
So like I have to be thenI guess you can Good.
About him being on my main,I guess you can go public.
You know that I have afriend who is like married.

(12:10):
Mm-hmm.
And some of her friends don'teven know she's married.
Really?
Yeah.
Like she's been dating this guy for,and no one even knew they were dating
and then they got married so secretlyI'm like, what type of person is
just like, so like cool with themselfor like happy with their thing?
Yeah.
Where they like don't need to share it.
I'm like, Ugh.
Does she post on Instagramthough regularly?
I don't think so.
Yeah.
Then that's different.

(12:31):
I feel like I post pretty regularly.
So like I. The photos that I'mtaking are gonna include him.
So like, it just sense.
Well, I recently hadlike a man on my stories.
Yeah.
Which is fine.
Stories are fleeting.
Stories are fleeting.
Men are fleeting.

Heather (12:44):
Oh, are they ever, are

Zoe (12:45):
they ever And they're weird liars.
Yeah.
But I, um, my mental health, thanksfor asking is well, I, oh yeah.
What's your one to 10 A number for me?
I'm gonna say a 7.5.
I like a 7.5.
A 7.5.
I feel like my mental health is, mm.
Be honest.

(13:05):
Well, you know what, today I'm ina good fucking mood, but a mood
isn't necessarily my mental health.
Yeah.
I think probably I'm at like a 4.5.
Okay.
But my like surface level mood feels good.
Yeah.
I think there's just so much goingon and I don't wanna like trick
myself into thinking I'm okay.
Yeah.
When I'm not.
Because like I'll do things likeI won't look outside and then I'll

(13:27):
go outside and it's fully raining.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, well, whydidn't I take the time to, no.
I literally, after the meeting yesterdaymorning, I was looking at it raining.
Mm-hmm.
All meeting long.
Yeah.
And then I go outside without an umbrella.
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh yeah,this is why I'm an addict.
I know, know, I'm like, focus babe.
Yeah.
So like a second.
But you know, there was, you know,I've gone through like a breakup

(13:48):
and I'm like, fine to say that now.
Um.
My life was getting crazy.
Mm-hmm.
My schedule was getting reallylike, unfocused, unorganized.
I was booking everything at the same time.
Like my life just wasn't Yeah.
Falling into place.
I see.
Well, that was a little bit manic, right?
Like you booked, we have the podcast Yeah.
At 9:00 AM Yeah.
Every Friday.
And then you booked aboxing at 9:00 AM Yeah.

(14:10):
And the therapy at 9:00 AM Yeah.
And I was like, holy shit, babe.
I know.
I, and then I had the couchdelivered at the same fucking time.
At the same time too.
I was like, I, I don't know what to do.
Yeah.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Like I just feel like Iapologized a lot last week.
Yeah.
'cause I'm like, guys, I, Iliterally am crying all day.
Yeah.
Like, it's rough.
I know.
And when you called me like thatit's like, it's so hard on my heart.
'cause like, I feel so bad for youand like, I know saying sorry and like

(14:36):
apologizing, but it's like you havesuch good, solid people in your life.
Yeah.
And like the ones.
You feel like you need to saysorry for the most or probably
not the good ones, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just like, I feel like soneglectful when I get like that
and then I'm like, I'm sorry guys.
Like I am coming back,like, believe in me.
I promise.
Yeah.
Like it's just, it's just rough.

(14:56):
Like sometimes those fuckingfour days, five days are like,
breakups are hard no matter what.
Yeah.
Breakups are so nomatter what are so crazy.
The craziest thing about fuckingbreaking up, even if it's like
not a long relationship mm-hmm.
Not a super like, intense anything.
It's like, you know, you wanna be doneand then as it's happening mm-hmm.
And the goodbyes are happening, mybody is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.

(15:19):
Mm-hmm.
Like, what if we can actuallymake this work and I can
just do everything you need.
Mm-hmm.
And I'll temper my wholelife to do what you need.
Mm-hmm.
And like I, my adult sober brain is like.
No.
Yeah.
Like, you know that you're gonna havethis exact conversation in two weeks Yeah.
With the, like, with the samepeople doing the same thing.
Mm-hmm.
So just like your brain is just smarterthan your heart in those moments.

(15:40):
I think it comes back to, um,like that's what we are taught
as like young woman, right?
Mm-hmm.
Is to always like, fight for the man.
Yeah.
And like, just like doeverything for the man.
And that's what we used to doin when we were drinking Yeah.
Is like, do whateverthe man fucking wanted.
Yeah.
So that we could stay together.
And now that we're sober, we're like,oh wait, we're not gonna do that.
Mm-hmm.
And that's where when you'resaying goodbye, those, like, those

(16:02):
responses come into play again.
Yeah.
It's like your body's natural reaction.
You just have to fight that off.
Right.
'cause I'm like, I'm obviously theproblem in this, like it feels,
like, feels like that for sure.
Because I am an addict,so like, it must be me.
Mm-hmm.
Before anything, but No, Ireally, and even if that's true.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Well it's not working.
Yeah.
So we gotta be done.

(16:24):
Take that as a sign if you need to.
If it's not feeling good, youdon't actually really need to
know why it's not feeling good.
It's just done.
Yeah.
I think like, I'm reallyproud of you for Thank you.
Acknowledging that.
Yeah.
And, um, I think it's hardto get out of anything.
Yeah.
That like, 'cause you,you did really like him.
Yeah.
He did like, seem like agood person at that point.

(16:47):
Yeah.
Always lovely.
Yeah.
It's just not, it's like when, it's likewhen two people with insecurities Yeah.
Come to each other and thoseinsecurities trigger Yeah.
Each other.
It's like, it just can't, you know?
Yeah.
And it wasn't bringing out like,the best in you as a person.
Yeah.
And I think that's where like, ifyour relationship isn't bringing
out the best of you as a person,something's not gonna be working.

(17:08):
Totally.
Um, so now I'm in my dating era.
She's dating again.
Anybody wanna date her?
Yeah, but like there's criteria.
Yeah.
There's also, I don'tthink the bar is high.
Also, I don't wanna bein a relationship at all.
No, I don't have time.
I don't have space.
I don't have capacity.
No.
I need like a situationship.
Yeah.
In that I am in control of.

(17:30):
Yeah.
And we'll see.
And maybe I'll just go on dates,like maybe I'll go on dates
and that'll be fun content.
I think you should just go on days.
Yeah.
We'll try to do like at least onefirst date every like two weeks.
I think that's good.
I thought you were gonna sayevery week and I was like, huh.
No.
I'm like, okay.
My Wednesdays are about to get crazy.
Crazy.
Uh, yeah.
I think that'd be fun.
Yeah.

(17:50):
Okay, great.
Okay.
Yeah, mental health is good.
Went to Ottawa, everything's fine.
Yeah.
Do you wanna say anything about Ottawa?
Ottawa is so hard for me.
Yeah.
It's every, when I talkabout it, I get weird.
Yeah.
Ottawa just like beingin a place I grew up.
Mm-hmm.
And it's just everythingcomes rushing back.
It's so much trauma.
It's so much like just beingon the same main strip.

(18:11):
I'm like, Ugh.
Yeah.
Like, I hate this, but I think it's alsosomething I'm gonna desensitize myself to.
Yeah.
Because my mom is there.
Yeah.
So I'm like, I'm obviously, well,I think that I felt like that a lot
when I was going back to Sarnia.
Mm-hmm.
When I first got sober,I was like, oh my God.
Like I hate this fucking feeling.
Yeah.
And I hate.
How it reminds me of all thebad shit that I've done Yeah.

(18:33):
In my life.

Heather (18:34):
Yeah.

Zoe (18:34):
Um, but yeah, I feel like now going back there, it's easier for sure.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
I do still feel like maybe15% of those like yeah.
Shame and guilt moments when I'm there.
Um, you know, they say, but it'sdefinitely less, you know, they say
like when something happens to you,when you're a kid, like tr a trauma,
bigger, small happens to you, itkind of stunts you in that emotional

(18:56):
place for like that specific thing.
So like you can go on and like bestrong and grow in other places,
but there is like this one specificthing that has stunted you.
Mm-hmm.
And so you just revert backwhen you feel triggered by that.
Mm-hmm.
And so when I go to Ottawa, I feel15 and I feel quick to trigger.
Yeah.
And I'm like mad at everybody.
Well, I feel like that even when I'mjust like with my family in general.

(19:17):
Okay.
Like when I'm with myfriends, everything's good.
I'm like growing as a personand then I go back to my family
and I feel like a child again.
Yeah.
And I revert back to those old behaviors.
Yeah.
And I'm a fucking brat.
Yeah.
I'm baby.
Yeah.
I'm fully baby.
Fully baby.
But I did, I met up withthis girl who I Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Mackenzie.
Shout out.
She's amazing.
She, um, she's really cool.

(19:38):
And she, we weren't friendsnecessarily in high school.
We went to the same school for two years.
But that's a person that was like so kind.
Mm. I think people were likepretty fucking mean to her, but
like, she was so cool, so kind.
Had a very old boyfriend whenwe were in high school, which
is like very problematic.
Mm-hmm.
But I always really liked her.
I was always like, she's sofucking cool and evolved.

(19:58):
Yeah.
And so we met up andlike, she's sober now.
Oh shit.
And it was so nice.
I'm like, I feel likewe're, I'm talking to like.
A really old friend.
Yeah.
But we weren't even really close.
Close.
But sobriety is like, okay.
You know, and that's thething, like sobriety does just
like bring people together.
Yeah.
No matter what, becausewe have this common thing.
Yeah.

(20:19):
And that common thing is like so big.
All of these.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not just sobriety.
It's like, what happened to you?
How did you get here?
What are the lessons you've learned?
Mm-hmm.

Heather (20:26):
You know?

Zoe (20:27):
Do you still hate anybody?
Yeah.
Um, did she, like, how did she stop?
Did she do it on like her will or?
Yes, she did it on her own.
And I think it was likeshe, she had a kid.
Mm-hmm.
And then, and then was like, okay,I need to fucking stop drinking.
Yeah.
Um, I think when I havea kid, I'll stop smoking.
Do you think?

(20:48):
Yeah.
Oh, I'm gonna have toif I'm pregnant, right?
Oh yeah.
You have to.
Yeah.
I wonder if you'll want tosmoke when you're pregnant.
'cause probably not.
Like my mom likes wine andlike she was disgusted by wine
when she is pregnant with us.
I hope I am just disgustedby it when I am pregnant.
Imagine not though.
You would be cool.
Like smoking in like a, inlike a crop top, full belly.

(21:12):
I mean, it would be terrible.
You'd be canceled immediately.
I would be canceled immediately.
But you don't like smoke inthe car or like in the house?
I don't like smoking inthe car, in the house.
I like having like your me time.
I like having my, me time outside.
I like a cool breeze.
I like a, yeah.
Now I want a cigarette.
Anyways.
Yeah.
I, uh, I wonder, we'll see.
I guess we, we will cross that bridge.

(21:32):
Yeah.
I will not be going tomeetings for two weeks.
Right.
How do you feel about that?
I feel like kind of sad becauseI am gonna miss everybody.
Mm-hmm.
Especially because I finally amspons sponsoring someone crazy.
Um, so exciting.
So it like sucks thatlike I'm leaving her.
As soon as we like got started onthe steps, I'm like, okay, bye.
I'm off to Italy.

(21:53):
Yeah.
But.
You are still in content.
Yeah.
I think I'm gonna try to plan a FaceTimewith her after we do a recording.
'cause we're gonna do a,try to do a Zoom Yeah.
Uh, recording in Italy.
So I'll try to FaceTime her as well.
On your Yes.
That's exciting.
Yeah.
Are you nervous about justlike not being in a meeting?

(22:13):
Not necessarily.
I think that because I'm aroundso much, so many sober people when
I'm there, it won't be so crazy.
I think, I don't know.
I don't know how I feel.
Yeah.
Because I don't think I'vemissed two weeks of meetings.
Again for like over a year.
Yeah.
I mean you could go to one inItaly, but it will be in Italian.

(22:36):
I think they only have them in Rome.
Oh really?
Yeah, they do online though.
You could do an online.
I could do an online oneif you're feeling, yeah.
But also is it a thing where likeif you have like two sober people
in a room together, it's a meeting.
Yeah, kind of.
Kinda.
Yeah.
So I guess we'll see.
And if I, if I have a freak outor something, I can always call my
sponsor on WhatsApp, but that's true.

(22:58):
Yeah, that's true.
There's been a lot of things going on.
Yeah.
Well we haven't recordedhere in what, three weeks?
Yeah, it's been a long time, soI'm happy to be back with you.
Well, we did recordactually, I guess, right?
But then we didn't do it.
We did record, but there wassome technical difficulties
and we couldn't release it.
And it was too soon to talk aboutthe Charlie Sheen of it all.

(23:18):
I mean, the Charlie Sheen episode.
We could talk, we couldtalk about that first.
We watched the um, Charlie Sheen doc.
Yeah, I guess like.
We won't review it.
'cause a, it's impossible.
Yeah.
It's not chronological.
It really feels like you'rewatching a drug addict's life.
Yeah.
Which we are, but, which Ithink that's probably why they
chose to edit it like that.

(23:39):
A little weird.
Yeah.
A little bit strange with likethe plane crashing and all that.
Yeah.
The plane crashing was a lot like, whoa.
Yeah.
But it is a metaphorfor his life, I guess.
Totally.
Like he was just spiraling downwardslike every few years, you know?
Yeah.
And nothing is really real.
Yeah.
Like everything is kindof just like a movie.
Yeah.
And I, I think I was talkingto you about this too.

(24:01):
I, I find it interesting to watch adocumentary about somebody's life.
Mm-hmm.
Tip to tail, and then I leavethe documentary being like.
I don't know anything about this person.
Yeah, it was a lot about the past and nota lot about like what is he doing now,
but even and what's his everyday life now?
Yeah.

(24:21):
And well, yeah, and even too,when he's a kid and you're
seeing footage of him as a kid.
Mm-hmm.
It's always when they did, whatdo they, what they call them?
Like Super eight.
Yeah, super.
That's what they call them.
Super eight films or something.
Yeah.
And it was like them as kids, like runningaround recording each other, like making
little movies when he's like really young.
Yeah.
But even that, I'm like, we don'tsee any home video from him.
We don't see like him atChristmas or anything like that.

(24:42):
Yeah.
So I'm like, who is this?
Person.
Well, I think that's what itwas trying to maybe show right?
That like, he didn'treally have a childhood.
Yeah.
He was just like forcedinto the spotlight.
Yeah.
From a very young age.
Because his dad was also an actor.
Mm-hmm.
He didn't really have like a properchildhood, which I'm sure is very

(25:05):
telling of like, what ha why heended up the way that he ended up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, um, I think like theprivilege in it all.
Yeah.
It was, it's a lot to watchbecause you're like, at every
turn a you're getting something.
Yeah.
Even if you're fucking it up, you'regetting accolades, you're showing
up, you're in the right place.
You don't have a, a highschool education even.

(25:27):
Really?
Yeah.
And you're like now on the setof Ferris Bueller and it's like.
Yeah.
You know?
Well, I guess it's likethat, those times, right?
Yeah.
Back in the day his dad had was an actor.
Yeah.
So like he was just given everything,but even when like, he started
to like go to rehabs and shit.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Like he would go to rehab andthen come out with like a big job.

(25:48):
Yeah.
Or like an award or something.
Yeah.
Like lined up for him.
If any woman went to rehab,they would have nothing.
They would come back to Hollywoodand literally have nothing.
Well, I mean, look at Lindsay Lohan.
Yeah.
Like she was not making new, maybe afew things here and there while she
was like in and out of her addictions.
But like, she went away for like adecade and like everyone, like wrote

(26:09):
bad stuff about her all the time.
Yeah.
Like there's Charlie Sheen.
Like no one was like, well, I'm surethey were like writing bad stuff, but
it wasn't like calling him like a whore.
Yeah.
You know?
Right, right.
And a great example toois like Amanda Bees.
Yeah.
Where like a child actor,so fucking talented.
Mm-hmm.
Like a standup comedian at like 11.
Yeah.
Crazy.
And then.

(26:31):
All of these things havehappened to her, but we're just
like, oh, she's doing drugs.
She's outta the media.
She's like, look at her.
Look at her new TikTok.
Look at her new podcast.
Yeah.
All this weird shit, but we hate her.
And then with him, it was justlike, it was almost like the
giving him another chance.
Giving him another chance after chance.
After chance.
Yeah.
And that's enablement for sure.
Yeah, it is.
Do you think that some people werelike, if we give him these jobs,

(26:56):
he'll be happy enough and he'll stop.
Like, do you think that thatwas a part of it at all?
I think so.
I feel like that possibly was a partof it, but I think a bigger part of it
was like, this guy is making us money.
Mm-hmm.
And like everyone does love him,so we need to keep him working.

(27:16):
Yeah.
And I think, yeah, maybe peoplethought that if he kept working,
he would stop doing as much drugs.
Yeah.
But like I can see if I got out ofrehab and everything was just handed
back to me without any consequence.
Yeah.
I would be like, oh, like it'sokay that I just went to rehab then
like, let me just like drink again.
Yeah.
Like everything's fine.

(27:37):
You need to have some sort of like,not punishment per se, but consequence
consequences to your actions.
Yeah.
That's not like giving him somethingright away, but it could be like
when he proves himself Yeah.
To everyone around him that he isin a good place and that he's going
to maintain long-term sobriety.
Yeah.
Then you can, then you can reward himwith these jobs and accolades again.

(28:02):
Yeah.
But, but we're also watching him like goto rehab and of course we weren't there.
We don't know, but mm-hmm.
What it looks like is we'rewatching someone go to rehab who
doesn't wanna stop doing drugs.
Yeah.
Like maybe at times hewanted to slow it down.
Yeah.
Like maybe he wanted to show up andnot have to like be super hungover
on a show, but like, or on a set.
But we're watching this manjust go 'cause he has to.

(28:23):
Yeah.
And then, and then yeah.
He keeps leaving early.
Yeah.
And things like that.
Which is a big trend.
Yeah.
I think.
I think so too.
Especially amongst the men.
Yeah.
I find when we listen to men who'vegone to rehab, it's like, yeah, I
stayed for like 20 days and I was good.
Or like Yeah.
I went for like, I don't know.
Yeah.
Like 25 days.
I was supposed to say for 30.
But like Jax Taylor's like that.
Pete Davidson was like that.

(28:44):
Dominic Fike.
Yeah.
You know, we just listenedto him on Dak Shepherd.
Mm-hmm.
Little baby.
I love him.
I love him.
I've always loved him.
I know I wanna take him.
I've always loved him and just cradle him.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
I think so too.
Like when I watched him on euphoria,I was like, oh, I wanna fuck him.
Yeah, for sure.
Now I'm like, you're little baby.
Like you are just.

(29:06):
Should we talk about DominicFike or should we keep Yeah.
Okay.
Or, yeah, maybe juststick on Charlie's first.
Well stick on Charlie.
We'll come back to Dominic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But John Crier, he was the, he's likethe other half of two and a half men.
Oh, right.
John Crier.
Okay.
He, he was saying like, you know,like my career depended on Charlie's.
Mm-hmm.
And like, you know, it wasall of this in and out.
But then also Charlie Sheen is makinga fuck ton more money than him.

(29:28):
Mm-hmm.
And I had this feeling, I waslike, you and me are sitting here
as addicts, sober, empathetic, andwe've seen people go in and out.
Mm-hmm.
But if you are an addict mm-hmm.
And you're an adult and we'redoing this show together and

(29:49):
you can't keep your fucking shittogether, and it's in and out.
Now I don't really have anunderstanding of addiction.
I'm just a person.
And you're in and out and in and out,and then you shoot your girlfriend.
Mm-hmm.
And then you like, you get HIV and likeall of these things happen to you and
you're still doing all these drugs.
I think at some point, if I'm John Crierand I might just be like, I don't give a

(30:10):
fuck course, I don't give, give a fuck.
If you're healthy, show up, doyour job, and if you have to do
drugs later, great, go ahead.
But like, stop fucking with my life.
A hundred percent.
I would feel that way too.
Yeah.
Like if I was a non addict andsomeone kept fucking up my job Yeah.
And getting more money thanme, I would fucking hate him.
Like of course.
Yeah.
So I think like empathy dwindles,and then at that point you're like,

(30:32):
is this and everybody problem?
Like, am I supposed tobe supporting the addict?
Am I enabling the addict?
Is it my responsibility?
Yeah.
I think it's also very tellingthat like Charlie was so
successful because Hollywood atthat time, like glamorized, like.
Drugs and a crazy party man.

(30:56):
Only like, again, if a woman didany of those things, never be okay.
Mm-hmm.
But since he was a white man, it was fine.
Yeah.
And like it was funny like that two anda half men show, I grew up watching that.
Right.
Like my dad and mybrother loved that show.
Yeah.
So I loved that show as wellbecause I wanted to be cool
for my dad and my brother.
So boy, so boy.
I wanted to so boy, justbe like the boys, you know?

(31:18):
Yeah.
But yeah, I loved that show and Iloved that he would be a crazy man.
Like fucking all these girls, like Ithought it was cool to watch that too.
Right.
And that's very telling ofhow I grew up and like Yeah.
Ended up, you know, who is it?
Sean Penn is in the, yeah.
Okay.
So he's so hot.
Sean Penn said, thank you.

(31:38):
Sean Penn was like, whenhe got two and a half men.
Mm-hmm.
When Charlie got two and ahalf men, he was like, yeah,
this is a role for Charlie.
'cause it's literally just Charlie's life.
Yeah.
That feels crazy to me.
Mm-hmm.
Because I'm like, okay, you'regoing to a job where you're just
like, I guess they weren't reallydoing drugs on the show, right?
Like it was just mostlylike sex and drinking.
Yeah.

(31:58):
I don't remember if theymentioned drugs at all.
Maybe they were likealluding to it, I'm sure.
Yeah.
Or like at least drinking and sex.
But like sex, he's clearlya sex addict in the show.
Right?
Yeah, for sure.
He's a sex addict in the show, so Idon't really know what we're doing.
Like, do we just think thathis life is funny and we're
like, oh, this makes sense.
'cause I think it is kind oflike a funny thing, like, oh

(32:19):
look at this fucked up guy.
I guess so.
Which also like, I'm just likeimagining if I'm Charlie Sheen.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm in the show andeveryone's like laughing at me
because like, this is my life.
Yeah.
It would make me feel fucking bad and itwould make me want to drink and do drugs.
I know.
Well, that's the thing.
I'm like, at this pointyou're just being like.
You're treating him like a drug addictand an alcoholic and a sex addict.

(32:42):
Yeah.
And writing scripts for him like that.
So why would he change?
Why, why wouldn't he?
You know?
Because since he was a kid,he didn't have consequences.
Mm-hmm.
Like his dad.
And it's funny, in the documentary,his dad will be like, Martin
Sheen will be like, it will bequotes of him giving good advice.
Mm-hmm.
Like, um, like when he was, he, he gota movie and then he got Karate Kid.

(33:02):
But he had to turn down Karate Kid.
Yes.
And his dad was like, peoplewill res What is it like Yeah.
You'll go farther in thisindustry by keeping your word.
Yeah.
Rather than, you know,taking the next best thing.
But I like that.
But I'm also like, yeah.
But it, I don't know thatyour dad's a good dad.
I think he was home every now andthen and like dropped some advice.

(33:22):
Yeah.
And then ran away to go on a set.
Even since he's a kid.
There is no consequences.
There's no consequences.
I think that's everythingdoes people like, right?
Yeah.
Like he just shows up toset with, um, Jennifer Gray.
Yeah.
When he was, what, two hourslate and still hours late and
still is able to do the job.
Yeah.
Just like wore, had the looks and helike got some like grease or whatever,

(33:42):
put it under his eyes and I'm like, youjust like showed up when you weren't
supposed to, but got the job anyway.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
What's next?
And now we just, now youcan do whatever you want.
Yeah.
And then people think it's funny.
Mm-hmm.
And now we're all making money off of it.
Exactly.
Like going into Charlie Charlie'sboots, like I would, I know why he
drank and like did drugs, like Yeah.
I would want to as well.

Heather (34:04):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (34:05):
I don't think he had like a. He didn't have any consequences.
He couldn't learn anything properly.
He was just a baby throughouthis whole life and he didn't
know how to deal with life.
And that is what an addict is.
Yeah.
They dunno how to deal with life.
So they use fucking drugs,alcohol, pussy, whatever.
They can get true.
Clip that.
No, truly because, well, I love whenhe's talking about the menu of sex when

(34:26):
he like, takes drugs and he's like,'cause we talk about this all the mm-hmm.
Time.
Like, he like says, you know,you've, you've done all these drugs.
And then Sean Penn comes in, he islike, you know, people who do cocaine
have a strong sexual proclivity.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, yeah.
Does Sean Penn? Mm-hmm.
But good for you for chiming in.
And Charlie Sheen is like, oh yeah,when you do drugs, you have the menu.
And you're like, I'll take one ofthose, one of those, I'll take it all.

(34:46):
And then the producer is like, so areyou admitting to having sex with men?
And he so casual.
He's like, duh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like how casual he is about it,because then the producer asks
him like, well, is this somethingyou were interested in before?
Or is this like strictly drug based?
And he's like, oh no, it's just drugs.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you know, once you've doneone thing, you wanna do it all.

(35:08):
Which honestly, I'm kind ofrelating to now because like
before I would get that fucked up.
Mm-hmm.
I wasn't like searching forthreesomes or searching for like
that promiscuous of sex, but whenI was getting more fucked up.
Yeah.
Like I've done threesomes withguys, threesomes with girls.
Mm-hmm.
Like I was searching for more with my sex.

(35:29):
Yeah.
Which.
I'm sure if I went going it would'vebeen way crazier, like Charlie Sheen.
But yeah, like I even likehave Ubered guys to my house
and like paid for their Ubers.
'cause like I was that desperate for sex.
Oh yeah.
So it's not hiring a prostitute,but that's like paying for
someone to come over to fuck me.
100%. You know, 100 if you're sugar mama.

(35:50):
Do you think you were chasingit for like a better orgasm?
Or do you think just like the feelingof being touched and important
or like, like 'cause were youlike looking for a good orgasm?
I think no, because like Idefinitely wasn't like coming.
Right, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think it was justthe idea of it all.
Yeah.
And yeah, like having, feeling something.

(36:12):
Yeah, for sure.
I think feeling wantedfor me was a big thing.
Yeah.
Just feeling like useful.
Yeah.
Ugh.
But yeah, it's very interesting.
And then there's a bunch of shit withCharlie Sheen, like the last episode, the
last like 20 minutes of the two episodes.
It's like allegations of.
Rape and then like he has HIV and thenall of this chaotic shit at the end.

(36:33):
Mm-hmm.
Which is not funny.
Not funny, but it is what happens, it'slike before you get sober, when you
start thinking about getting sober,crazy shit happens because you're like,
oh my God, I gotta do all of this stuff.
And then like the shame of notgetting sober and like all of that.
Like, and now you have HIV.
Yeah.
Which is fine because you knowyou can, you can deal with

(36:54):
it now, you can deal with it.
It can be undetectable, you canhave sex with people, it's fine.
But it just felt so chaotic.
And I think after like a week ofletting it sit in my body mm-hmm.
I just really hope he's okay.
Yeah.
I think that he's obviouslydone horrible things.

(37:15):
Yeah.
I didn't like the way he just was like.
Um, the rape allegation came up andhe just like totally disregarded it.
Yeah.
And like didn't really talk on it at all.
That was like, comeon, like talk about it.
Like Yeah.
If it's an allegation you clear andyou didn't do anything, just explain
a little bit more like what happened.

(37:35):
Don't just totally disregard it.
Yeah.
Because that's a big allegation.
It's massive.
Exactly.
So like that wasn't cool and like Yeah.
Shooting his wife wasn't cool and nottelling people he had HIV not cool, bro.
I wonder if it's this thing wherehe's like explained it so many times
that he thinks we all know already.

(37:55):
Well he's definitely likeexplaining things very like, um,
just like telling it how it is.
Yeah.
Which is how an addict talksin the rooms by the way.
Like when you go, like, I see guystalk about this shit all the time's.
Like every meeting they just like blurt.
Yeah.
And just talk and.
That's how people likeget over things, right?

(38:16):
Yeah.
So I think he's very muchtalking like an addict in aa.
Um, I think
you're a bad person.
Like he was a bad person, right?
Yeah.
I was talking to Alexia aboutthis and he's, she's like,
yeah, like you did a bad thing.
I was, I am a criminal.
I have a DUI and thenI decide to get sober.

(38:36):
So that one good thing, does itweigh out that one bad thing?
Like being sober is amazing.
Yeah.
Like that's an ama that's a reallyfucking huge accomplishment.
Yeah.
Of choosing sobriety, thenchoosing to fucking die, you
know, and stay a horrible person.
Yeah.
So does the one good thing outweighone bad thing and then if you're

(38:58):
doing more good things than goodthings with your life, is it slowly
outweigh the bad that you've done?
I don't know.
That's an interesting question because.
Yeah.
Like I have fucked up a bunch and I'veruined relationships and now Yeah.
I've proven to those peoplethat I'm a good person.
Mm-hmm.
And now that they respect me again.

(39:19):
Yeah.
So it's kind of like, yeah, we,we've done fucking horrible things.
Yeah.
We all have as addicts and thenthe good starts to outweigh the bad
when you're as sober as you can be.
Yes.
And I think that that's very true.
And then I also think that if youhad hit someone with your car Yeah.

(39:41):
And killed them.

Heather (39:43):
Yeah.

Zoe (39:43):
Their family gets to hate you for the rest of their life.
A hundred percent.
And they get to think ofyou as a bad person and.
Then where does that responsibility lie?
You just have to be okaywith them hating you, right?
I think so.
Yeah.
I think that that's just somethingthat I will have to do a living
amends to them for eternity.
Yeah.
Right.
Which just means like, I have to staysober so that doesn't happen again.

(40:05):
Right.
For other people.
Yeah.
And I have to, um, like maybe be, Idon't know, contributing in some way
to like the community, to like do aliving amends and just live a better
life to hopefully make it up to them.
But that's like allobviously not possible.
Well, I think in the grand schemeof things, it's like, yeah, we all

(40:27):
want everyone to be a better person.
Yeah.
And so like, yeah.
No, I think you're right.
I think Charlie Sheen islike a better person now.
There's just so muchcollateral along the way.
Yeah.
But that makes me feel like, yeah,you have to move on with your life.
Yeah.
Like you have to as the addict because.

(40:47):
I mean, you have two choices.
You either sit in all of that anddrink about it, or you Exactly.
Or you try.
Exactly.
And him being sober isthe harder thing to do.
A hundred percent.
And so like, I'm proud of him for that.
Yeah.
Um, it's cool that he evenput out this documentary Yeah.
But also like, what's thepoint of the documentary?
Yeah.
I, a little bit was like, hold on now.

(41:08):
Because when you watch it, you're like,okay, so they're talking about every
time they did a show and they're likemaking money off of this person and he
doesn't really know what's going on.
And they're Denise Richards Love,love, she's on the, the, the
third season of Special Forces.
Did you ever watch that?
No.
Okay.
Um, I love her.
Okay.
But she was saying, she's like,you know, when he was really in his

(41:30):
addiction, like kind of closer to theend, she would go over to his house.
Yeah.
And like they would essentiallybe propping him up Yeah.
To like sign things or like whatever.
And he would just be out of his mind.
Yeah.
And when she said that, I'm like.
Are you guys just kind of doing that now?
Like I, I think he sober.
I know that he de think, he seemsway more like aware and like he
definitely knows what's going on.

(41:51):
He's been on a lot of podcasts.
He was on Joe Rogan, hewas on, um, what's that?
Mike Malac and Logan Paul.
Oh, so he's picking the best podcast.
Podcast.
He's he's picking allthe men fucking podcast.
Which Charlie come here.
I don't talk to the woman.
Don't actually, I'm scaredof you A little bit.
I don't know if he has theability or capacity to be

(42:12):
like, vulnerable with a woman.
Well, that's interesting because Iknow a lot of addict men who aren't
able to be vulnerable around men.
Totally.
They're only allowed to bevulnerable around women.
Yeah.
Um, but maybe we would asklike the tougher questions
we would, you know, but it's.

(42:32):
Oh no, I saw him, I saw a couple clipsof Charlie and Mike Malac on Impulsive.
That's the podcast.
And it's kind of cool becauselike Impulsive, I think that's
what like Paul, I think so.
Cool.
Not cool.
Anyways, but Mike's alsoan ex heroine addict.
Okay.
So like they were kind oftalking about their addiction

(42:54):
together, which was kind of cool.
I guess this is rather than, he'slike trying to get to a point it, it's
again like is this just an expose?
I think it's just like showingwhat addiction is really like and
in that way it's a great po It's agreat documentary because it really
does show what addiction is like.
And again, I wish I sawmore of his life now.

(43:16):
Mm-hmm.
But maybe he'll be doing something else.
Who knows?
Hopefully.
One last thing I do wannabring up is Denise Richards.
Yeah.
When they were together and hewas doing two and a half Men.
Yeah.
She.
Like had a feeling thathe was on drugs again.
Yes.
And she reported it to like the producersof two and a half men or something.

(43:39):
And they were all like, oh, like, no,he's not like, you're just hormonal.
You're pregnant, you're hormonal.
You don't know you're talking about Yeah.
And meanwhile, no, he's fully on drugs.
Yeah.
It's just, I know.
I'm like, the personthat loves him mm-hmm.
Is going to the people who makemillions of dollars off of him and

(44:00):
is like, basically what I'm about tosay is like, I need him to, I need
you all to just stop this livelihood.
Mm-hmm.
Like, he can't, he can't handle it.
And you guys like make a different show.
Yeah.
Mind you, he wants to work, helike wants to be in the spotlight.
He doesn't have another mode.
Right.
He's either like forced tobe in rehab or go, go, go.

(44:20):
Yeah.
And yeah, it's just like another,like just a crazy example of like how.
The women always know and the menare so oblivious or just like, don't
want to see what's in front of them.
Yeah.
And just wanna act like everything's okay.
Yeah.
Meanwhile, the women alwaysknow what's going on.

(44:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like a deep feeling.
It's a deep mean, we know when you're off.
Like it's very, it's like childrenknowing when they're parents are
drunk, they're like, what's this?
Yeah.
And I guess it's like thewomen, like we can't avoid it.
Mm-hmm.
Like when we know something,we have to act on it.
Yeah.
Meanwhile, when men know, they're like,oh no, it doesn't, it doesn't matter.
Yeah.
If I ignore it, it'll go away.

(45:01):
Exactly.
And I think that that isvery big in addiction too.
Mm-hmm.
Like men and women to be binary.
It's like men will try, try to ignore it.
Like they'll ignore their friends.
They'll, yeah.
And I, that's where theenablement gets hard.
'cause you're like, I'm just tryingto support my friend and be with
him, but that makes me an enabler.
Like mm-hmm.
Enabling is really a confusing situation.

(45:23):
It is.
Because you're like.
Like we were talking about before,like you have to let the person
go through their own journey.
Yeah.
Okay.
So if I'm sitting heredrinking all day mm-hmm.
And you're my friend, or you justhave to let me go through the journey.
Yeah.
I mean, you can make a decision whetheryou wanna leave or not, but like, well,
I think it's kind of like, I have thisfriend who is drinking a lot, and all

(45:46):
of us around her are like trying tofigure out like what we're gonna do.
Mm. Like what's the levelof enablement and what like
boundaries can we make with her.
Yeah.
So that it, we're not enabling her,but we're not like forcing her to
like stop drinking or like whatever.
Yeah.
And like still be supportive andhave her figure it out for herself.

(46:07):
It's a difficult situation.
Yeah.
It's, it's a tricky like.
Yeah, because you don't wannalike cross the line, but you
don't wanna, I don't know.
Yeah.
And getting older is helpful.
Mm-hmm.
Like that.
We've been through it.
It's definitely helpful.
Yeah.
Like when you're younger andsomeone's going through it,
you're like, just fucking stop.
Like, know what's wrong with you andthen you're mad at them and, but yeah,

(46:30):
it's like this weird, it is weird thatI think a lot of friends are enablers,
a lot of family members are enablers.
Yeah.
Because you also love that person.
Yeah.
So it's, it's not as easy on likemy 600 pound life when someone's
bringing you chicken fingers every day.
This is like, I don'tknow, it's like deep.
Yeah.
It's really hard.
It's a hard, it's dealingwith addiction is hard.

(46:53):
And just to wrap up the CharlieSheen stuff, like, I don't think
like we're seeing that he was a goodperson in like addiction at all.
No.
But he's on the other side of it and I'mhappy to see him on the other side of it.
And I'm happy to see like whathis life will be like now.
Yeah.
And I hope, I hope he does everythinghe can to be his best self.

(47:14):
Yeah, that's what I'm hoping.
Let's go back to talking about ourlittle special little boy Dominic.
Dominic like, God, he's so fucking hot.
Like, I know.
I just love him and like him being onDak Shepherd, I'm like, you're exactly
who I thought you were gonna be.
Yeah.
Adorable.
Sweet.
Yeah.
Fucked up.
I mean, he's been through a lot.

(47:35):
Yeah.
Like, you know, he's all like,he's been through a shit ton.
I, I don't even know where to stir this,but it's whenever people talk about the
shit that they've been through and thatthey're sober or that they're like,
trying to be sober, I'm like, holy shit.
Like, I can't believe you wanna be sober.
I know.
Even though you went through all theshit, you know, I, I do the same thing.

(47:58):
Yeah.
Anytime someone's like, oh yeah.
Like, my parents are dead.
Yeah.
I'm like, oh my God.
And you're so, oh my God.
Drink, go drink.
Yeah.
I'm like, are you sure?
Yeah.
Like.
Uh, it's, it's really crazy.
Mm-hmm.
Some people who get sober, I'm like, andyou had to sit with that feeling Yeah.
Sober.
Yeah.
Fuck.
Like, I just ruined everyrelationship I ever had.
I didn't like, you know, whatever.

(48:19):
But, um, he has been through a lot.
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like we kind of watchedsomeone who is still in the middle of it.
He is definitely stillin the middle of it.
He's still trying to figure out likewhat sobriety is gonna look like for him.
Yeah.
And it's true, like sobrietylooks different for everybody.
Yeah.
My sobriety is the nearestsobriety, whatever.
Mm-hmm.

(48:39):
So I think he's just like still inthe middle of it, but he obviously
knows that he has a problem.
Yes.
And that's like the first step, right?
Yeah.
And he knows he has a problem.
He is not interested in being sober.
Mm-hmm.
I don't think, from what it seemedlike, it, it's like he's kind of on
this cycle where he like goes to rehab.
Yeah.
Comes out, does a gig goes.

(48:59):
Yeah.
It's also this thing.
I wonder.
Years didn't change that much,but my life changed a lot.
Mm-hmm.
After I got sober, likemy friends changed.
Mm-hmm.
And like my, my day changed,like everything I did was
like now about sobriety.
Mm-hmm.
His days, he's a rock star.
Yeah.
He's around drugs and alcohol and women.

(49:20):
Mm-hmm.
And whatever the fuck else.
He's not sleeping.
He's on tour.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if nothing in your lifechanges, how would your addiction
ever just change on its own?
Yeah.
Like how, how, how, how could you cut outthe drinking, cut out the, the drugs, but
then still be on tour, still be up late,still be like horny and craving and like,

(49:42):
I mean, I guess like he has a kid now, sothat's something that's changed mm-hmm.
In his life.
But I think he was like talkingabout one of the waitresses at
the restaurant that he went to.
I know.
And like, even him just sayingthat was like, oh, you're still
like, you're very much like sex.
Like, oh yeah.
Like you need to have sex.
Oh.
And like you're woman,you're chasing these women.

(50:02):
Yeah.
If you didn't listen to the pod, it waslike, before he like came on, he had
like stopped at a, a diner or something.
Yeah.
And he was talking about this waitress,and Monica was like, oh, I know her.
Yeah.
And he was like, give her my number, blah.
Yeah, it is.
I'm like, holy shit.
There's, there's dopaminethat you need all the time.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know.
Can you sit and record a podcastfor two hours and not be on

(50:23):
drugs if you're a drug addict?
I don't know.
I think he's definitely like, slowed down.
I don't think he's like in the midstof like, like being like debilitated,
but debilitated and like being ondrugs all day, every day right now.
Yeah.
Like it doesn't seemlike he was like that.
He seemed very much like aware ofwhat he was saying and whatever.
Yeah.
He seemed smart and knowledgeableabout his life, but so was I,

(50:45):
I was not when I was in it.
Yeah, but you but you, you can't be.
Yeah.
Dax asked him like.
So how is it now withlike substances and stuff?
And he was like, it's better.
Yeah, it's better.
And I'm like, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Alright.
Like, you're on your journey, babe.
Exactly.
It's gonna have to stop.

Heather (51:05):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (51:05):
Things like that scare me when we like a person, I like him.
Mm-hmm.
And I know he's doing drugs and I knowthat he has substance abuse issues.
Mm-hmm.
He does.
This is not just a person who likeevery now and then does drugs.
He's no, he's, he needs it.
He's, yeah.
And I love him and I wanna sithere and be like, it's okay.
He's got it under control, but nobodyfucking has their drug use under control.

(51:29):
He definitely doesn't not,he definitely doesn't.
And like something will happen.
Yes.
And it will spiral again, like.
Hopefully it doesn't, but that'sjust patterns that we see regularly.
Um, this is where I get scared though.
I know.
'cause this is where like theLiam pain of it all happens.
Or the Matthew Perry's, we likeMac Miller and they already
compared him to Mac Miller.
And I'm like, don't do that.

(51:50):
Don't do that.
Don't do that.
Don't, don't get that in his head.
No.
You know, I know.
Don't do that.
But it is, it is scary.
It's like he's a rock star.
All rock stars do this.
Everyone is doing this.
But people die.
Yeah.
People do fentanyl.
People fall out of fuckingbuildings because they're on drugs.
And I just am like, I. Wouldlove for him to wrap up this

(52:14):
journey as quickly as possible.
Yeah.
But it's on his owntimeline, unfortunately.
And it's, it's making me think ofmy friend who, um, like is sober and
like, wanted to come to meetings,but she does, she's like not ready.
And now she has a therapist and hertherapist is like, yeah, I used to be

(52:36):
an addict as well, but now I have likean odd glass of wine here and there.
Like, if you don't wanna stopcompletely, you can like one
day have an odd glass of wine.
Like you don't need to stop forever.
And so she did have a glass ofwine like Oh, a few weeks ago.
Yeah.
And it was fine.
She didn't drink anymore, but nowit's kind of the same thing as

(52:57):
Dominic, where it's like, it'sa waiting game, like mm-hmm.
It.
What's gonna happen next?
You know?
And also, wouldn't you rather just besober so you can be free of thinking about
when you're gonna be able to drink again?
Wouldn't you just like rather acceptthe fact that you can't have this thing
and that you're better off without itand you're better than all other humans

(53:18):
because you don't need this thing.
Yeah.
Come on.
No, it is.
It is impossible to control your drinking.
And I think I get nervous if youhave a problem, it's impossible
to control your drinking.
I get nervous every time I saythat because then stories like
that will come up, be like, well,I've only had a glass of wine.
I'm like, yeah, but then likeshe wasn't a real addict.
Her therapist wasn't a real addict.
But also I think that people aredifferent in terms of their like psyche.

(53:42):
Yeah.
So like I can't do that.
Yeah.
I know.
It doesn't matter if I'm the happiest,most successful I've ever been.
One glass of wine, I'm under a bridge.
No problem.
But, but I think some people.
Can do it a little bit.
Yeah.
To an extent.
But you're right, it's a waiting game.
Like I think, yeah, I think some people,even that therapist, it's a waiting game.

(54:02):
Like she could be drunk next year.
Yes.
Forever.
You know, and die.
Yes.
If you, we've said this, thisbefore, if you have to control
your drinking, it's impossiblefor you to control your drinking.
Mm-hmm.
That's it.
Yeah.
That is just true forever.
Like forever.
For, forever.
Forever.
And it, yeah.
Okay.
Wouldn't you rather just be likefree and just be like, Ugh, yes.

(54:24):
Let me just have a zero proof instead,like, this tastes delicious and I'm
not feeling anxious or anything thenext morning and I wake up rested.
Like there is one thingI wanted to ask though.
Mm-hmm.
Because Dominic has a kid.
Mm-hmm.
And I think for people who arenot addicts, I think the thought

(54:46):
of like, once they have a kid,they should straighten up.
Mm-hmm.
And get clean.
Mm-hmm.
And I think for some people.
It is.
Mm-hmm.
An aha moment.
Yeah.
Where they're like, ohmy God, I have this kid.
I'm looking at this child.
I think so too.
And I have to be sober.
But what is it when that doesn'thappen when having a kid?
Isn't the, the life change youneed and you keep drinking?

(55:08):
Well, I think it's also likepostpartum depression, you know?
Like, oh, for women?
Yeah, for women.
Like, you have this kid and then youdon't feel connected to it all, and
then you feel bad that you don't lovethis thing that you gave birth to, and
then you have to go drink about it.
Like, yeah.
Alright.
Well I think that's, postpartumdepression is like a whole fucking thing.
I guess for some reason, becausewe were talking about Dominic,
I was thinking more for the man.
Oh.
Because I feel like, uh, you hearsometimes like men will like, well

(55:31):
men, I feel like Yeah, it's, you'renot connected to it as women are.
Yeah.
Like the women, you have thisthing like you're, you did this.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Men.
You didn't do it all at all.

Heather (55:42):
You didn't.

Zoe (55:43):
It's hard.
I feel like if I was a man andmy wife was having a child.
It would be hard for meto connect to the kid.
Yeah.
Because, yeah, I didn't do anything.
Yeah.
I think what happens sometimes I'd imagineis like, you probably think that, yeah.
Like you probably think, oh, when thisbaby is born, if I'm the man, yeah.
When this baby is born,I'm gonna get clean.

(56:04):
Mm-hmm.
It's just gonna be, it's, it'sa different chapter for me.
Exactly.
And when that doesn'thappen because you feel bad.
Yeah.
Because a screaming baby with no sleepand now your like partner is like
aggravated and everything is difficult.
You feel bad that you're, you know,shitty and you're gonna, well I
think it's also like husbands loveto be momed by their wife, right?

Heather (56:30):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (56:30):
And then the wife is mommying the baby.
Yeah.
So you feel neglected andthen you feel neglected too.
Like, I feel like that's kindof a big part of it as well.
'cause she can't take care of.
You, you grown ass fucking man.
Yeah.
She's taking care of the baby.
Yeah.
And like, I feel like that'smaybe a little bit of it as well.
Yeah.
And I don't really know how you, yourkid turns one and you're like, holy shit.

(56:52):
That whole year I was like,on cocaine or drinking.
Yeah.
I don't really remembermy kids' first year.
Yeah.
'cause Dominic, I kindof said that, right?
Yeah.
And now it's like, now the restof your life and that kid's life,
you're, you've missed a year.
Yeah.
The shame of that mm-hmm.
Would be enough for meto be like, fuck it then.
Yeah.
You know?
Same like, some peoplewould go the other way.

(57:13):
Yeah.
Some people would be like,I have to clean up my life.
This kid is my everything.
Yeah.
And then other people would be like, thiskid didn't make me wanna change my life.
I'm a fucking Yeah.
Loser.
Yeah.
So I, uh, it's, I I just thoughtit was an interesting point.
It is point, an interesting point.
Yeah.
It can go both ways and I think it's verymuch different for like a woman alcoholic,
giving birth and like a men alcoholic.

(57:35):
Having the woman give birth.
Totally.
Um.
I feel like, well, your friend gotsober because she was pregnant, right?
No.
No thought that No, no, no.
Not at all.
I mean, I'm sure she's currentlysober because she's breastfeeding.
Right.
But even if I, if I was an addict,the one that you met in rehab.

(57:59):
Oh, that one.
Okay.
I thought I was right.
Jesus thought.
Sorry, I thought we were talkingabout You're gaslighting me.
I thought we were talking aboutmy other friend with a baby.
No, you have so many friends.
So many friends with babies.
Yeah.
Um, uh, yeah, she got sober 'causeshe had, and so did her husband.
Yeah.
And then she relapsedthough after she did.
Yeah.
I think her, so I feel like that's likea cla that's like a very classic story

(58:22):
of like, I get pre, I get pregnant,I get sober because I'm have this
thing and then I give birth and Idon't know what the fuck I just did.
Yeah.
And so you drink like, I feellike that would be a very.
I see that happening for myself.
Yeah.
Like, I feel like that'svery relatable to me.
A baby.
I remember when my friendrelapsed and people around me were
like, but she just had a baby.

(58:42):
Yeah.
Doesn't she wanna be sober for that baby?
And I literally was like, no,I, I think I said it to her mom.
Yeah.
I was like, A baby is not enough.
Yeah.
To get someone to be sober.
No, it's not, it's nota mental health cure.
Yeah.
A baby, a baby.
Definitely not.
No.
That's so much pressure that would make mewanna drink a times a billion, you know?
Oh yeah.
Well, like, I mean, don't bring babiesinto this world to fix your relationship.

(59:03):
Don't bring babies in a, into thisworld to like, to fix your addiction.
Fix your addiction.
Yeah.
It's not gonna happen, babe.
Yeah.
Um, this is a very maleheavy podcast today.
I know.
I really don't know how this happened.
Well it's 'cause theynever shut the fuck up.
So then when we were off forthree weeks, we're like, oh my
God, they've all been working.
Yeah.
Mind you, I've loved, well, Ilove Dominic and I love our next.

(59:28):
Our next little boy.
We're talking about our next bigtall boy, our next big tall boy.
PD. DP.
DD, Pete Davidson.
Friend of the pod.
Friend of the pod.
Um, he went on the, someonecommented on our TikTok and was like
a TikTok to, or a like a podcasttalking about other podcasts.
And I was like, that's what everyone does.
It's like off.
Yeah.
We're, this is a social commentary.

(59:49):
Yeah.
Okay.
Pete Davidson.
Theo Vaughn.
How do you feel about Theo Vaughn?

Heather (59:53):
Uh, that's exactly right.
Okay.
So

Zoe (59:54):
when I was drinking I would listen to a lot of fucking
male comedy and male podcasts.
Yeah.
And I hate that I did that.
So like now in sobriety, Ibasically only listen to women.
Yeah.
Besides Doc Shepherd,like he doesn't count.
He's one for the girls.
Um, so now I like don't listento any of the male podcasts.

(01:00:17):
I used to listen to.
I feel like I did used to listen toTheo Von, I used to listen to Andrew,
Andrew Schultz or So Andrew Schultz.
Yeah.
Which is the redhead one.
Santino Schultz is likethe one that got married.
He's an asshole.
And it's an asshole.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, and like, loves that.
I don't know.
I feel like I Is Theo v sober?

(01:00:40):
Yes, yes, yes.
Now, but he's had his spurts as well.
Yeah, I think he's donelike all of the drugs.
Yeah.
But I, I think he's like sober.
Sober now.
I think I like him.
Yeah.
I, it's like not a person thatI would choose to be my friend.
It's not a person I wouldchoose to listen to either.

(01:01:00):
No.
Like that.
I just, like, I've listened.
I don't know why I listen tosuch like, male focused shit
when I was in addiction probably.
'cause I wanted their attention, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
A thousand percent.
And now I like just avoidall male podcasts at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Theon is interesting.
I guess it's not really like myplace to be like, do we like him?
But he, um, it's like one of thosethings where I'm like, I don't.

(01:01:24):
Love to listen to you speak, but I'mlike, you're sober and you are speaking
to a very specific group of men mm-hmm.
Who like need, probably need to get sober.
Mm-hmm.
So I think that that's good.
It's good for the men tosee that to get sober.
Yeah.
But where are the women talking about it?
Here we are.
Mm-hmm.
Talking about it for the woman.
Like what, who other, I guess wehave some, but not like famous

(01:01:47):
people talking about it in suchlike a big platform type of way.
Maybe Lala Lala Lala Kent fromVanderpump, but she's not really
like the Right, is she a podcaster?
Yeah.
She has a podcast, but it'slike, it's like pop culture.
But she like sometimes talksabout, well she's sober, but
it's not a sobriety podcast.
Right.
She doesn't talk about itlike every episode type thing.

(01:02:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Got it.
She did talk about it a lot inVanderpump, which I really liked.
Yeah.
She like got sober early.
Yeah.
But um, yeah, I just feel likethere's lots of men talking
about sobriety right now.
Yeah.
As we are now talking about three men.
Yeah.
We need the girls to comein and talk about it more.
Yeah.
Well it's, yeah, it's fun.
It's sometimes it's fun to watchthe men like realize things

(01:02:29):
or like Yeah, that's true.
They're very shocked thatthings happen sometimes.
And it's also like
watching men emote.
Mm-hmm.
And then they feel like,this changed my life.
Like this conversation changed my life.
I've never spoken about this.
I'm like, holy shit.
No wonder you're fucking addicts.

(01:02:49):
But they do think they're very important.
Now I will say I love Pete.
Yeah.
Hot.
Hot.
How cute did he look?
I honestly didn't watch it.
Oh, you didn't?
I didn't watch it.
Okay.
Fantastic.
I'm gonna tell you about it.
Tell me about it.
I got my little notebook.
There are a few thingsI wanted to talk about.
Okay.
Okay.
So Pete, um, he was talking about.

(01:03:11):
When he was doing substances.
'cause now he's sober.
Yeah.
He like went back to rehab.
His girlfriend is pregnant.
I'm so happy.
Not his mom.
His mom is not his girlfriend.
He, um, I, his girlfriend's funny.
Oh yeah.
I still dunno who she is.
Elsie Hewitt.
Okay.
And she hangs out with, she'slike, done that show Dave.

(01:03:32):
Oh, Dave.
Yeah.
Okay, okay, okay.
Oh, I, okay.
So they're funny people.
Yeah, they're funny people.
Funny baby.
Funny baby.
Um, yeah.
So Pete was talking about when he wasdoing drugs and like losing friends.
Yeah.
And how at first he waslike, oh fuck you, fuck you.
I don't care.
Like you can't be in my life.
You can't handle this.
Like, this is who I am.
Like really defensiveand offensive, honestly.

(01:03:53):
And then he starts talking aboutlike, y and then you start losing
the people that you care about.
Yeah.
And you're like.
Oh, fuck yeah.
And it's like that transition.
Did you ever have one of those whereyou were like, oh fuck everybody
except, oh, now I'm losing.
Yeah.
Now I'm really starting to lose thingsI love, I guess like my first boyfriend

(01:04:15):
I lost and I was like, yeah, fuck you.
Like you don't get tolive in Toronto with me.
Like, fuck you.
Yeah.
Um, and then when my friend brokeup with me, like I really did
care about her a lot, but I didn'thave the capacity to think about
it or to acknowledge it I think.

(01:04:36):
So I was just like, yeah, fuck you.
You don't deserve me.
I think that one stung, but I reallycouldn't think about it at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I, I don't think I even likecreeped her on Instagram or like, did
anything to like, see what she was doing.
'cause I couldn't, like, I couldn't bringmyself to do that because it hurt so much.

(01:04:57):
Yeah.
Um.
Then that was like early, that wasprobably five years before I got sober.
She broke up with me.
So.
Right.
That was one of the,that was the hardest one.
I think.
Also, like my dad stoppedtalking to me like probably two
weeks before I went to rehab.

(01:05:17):
Mm-hmm.
And that was hard as well.
But again, I couldn't reallyprocess that 'cause I was too in it.

Heather (01:05:22):
Yeah.

Zoe (01:05:23):
Um, and at the time too, it feels like things are happening to you.
Yeah.
Like you're being mean to me.
You're not talking tome, you're ignoring me.
Yeah.
Like, I'm just trying to survive.
Right.
Well, and I, to this friend, I waslike, I can't believe you left me.
Like, I can't believe youdidn't, don't wanna help me.
Like you left me 'cause I'm drinking.
Don't you wanna support me and help me?
Like you're a bad friend.
Yeah.

(01:05:43):
And now in hindsight, like Idid my amends to her and she was
going through a shit ton too.
She couldn't save me, she couldn'tstick around to watch me die maybe.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Now I'm going to her wedding in Portugal.
So I mean, it's Right.
Okay.
It's such an amazing thing.
'cause this is how I felt with Paige too.
Like watching us, like sitting in a studiowith Paige, talking about our lives.

(01:06:05):
Mm-hmm.
And like my life is so me focused.
I'm the center of my world.
And like, especially whenyou're in an addiction.
Yeah.
Like there is no capacity totalk to your friends or family.
There is none.
Yeah.
You can't care about anything.
And yeah, like being able to sit thereand listen to her perspective mm-hmm.
After all of these years.
And to be like, not only was shesad about me, but she was going

(01:06:29):
through her fucking shit too.
Exactly.
She was in college.
Yeah.
Like away from home.
It's very hard to do.
She was going through eating disorders.
Mm-hmm.
Like drinking too much.
And so yeah.
It's like, wow.
Not only was like.
Not only did I think like you abandonedme, like I abandoned you hard.
Exactly.
I did not think aboutanyone else in my addiction.

(01:06:51):
It was only me.
Yeah.
So selfish of us.
Um, but now I feel like I want to thinkof other people and I want to be like
that support for other people and Yeah.
Like help and in any way that Ican for like all my friendships.
So, and now you're a sponsor.
And now I'm a sponsor.
Did you put your little hand upand they said, is anyone available?
Yes.
You said me.

(01:07:11):
I said, well, I've been sayingme for a few months now.
Finally you're like,hello, anyone want me?
Like, look at me.
I'm so cool.
What is it about me?
You don't want, it must be you.
It must be a you problem.
Can't be me.
Um, yeah.
Oh, it's funny talking about collegeand like having bad things happen.
Pete was like, 'cause Pete's dad died.
Mm-hmm.
Nine 11 and he was like, yeah,I realized in college that I'm
like, really sad about that.

(01:07:32):
Mm-hmm.
Like, yeah.
Isn't that a funny thing?
You like have childhood trauma,you get to college and you're.
Shit.
Oh shit.
Yeah.
And I guess I'll startdrinking about this now.
Yeah.
It's like the only thing I know how to do.
But he says now, like, now thathe's sober, um, he does, he did
have some friends come back.
Yeah.
He said like maybe like 50%of his friends came back.

(01:07:53):
And what about for you?
Do you feel like you've lost any friends?
I lost Paige for a little bit.
Yeah.
For years.
That was hard.
Um, I feel like a lot offriends, a lot of people I was
friends with from school gone.
Mm-hmm.
One of my really good friends,CASI, they are also a ginger.
Mm-hmm.
Um, very talented.
I wanna buy some oftheir artwork for this.

(01:08:14):
Oh, perfect.
But they're like, yeah, letme figure out how to do that.
I have COVID, so let me figureout how to make prints nice.
Perfect.
Um, why did I bring that up?
Oh.
Because like, we were bestfriends and I started to get
really jealous of their success.
Mm-hmm.
And I was drinking and yeah, Ikind of just started to like.
Move away.
Lots of things.
Like, I feel like if I lookback, I'm like, there are so many

(01:08:36):
friendships that could have stayed,but Are you friends with Cassie now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like there's anyone that you've lostthat like you want to rekindle with?
There is one guy.
Yeah.
Called Austin.
Austin.
And we went to school together.
Why is Austin the hottest name ever?
I know it, it really is a hot name.
It really is a hot name.
You should bring that back.

(01:08:57):
Austin.
Austin.
We went to school togetherand he was like the sweetest.
Just one of these people thatyou're like, how did this happen?
Yeah.
How did you, were you born so kind?
And I was, had like apretty traumatic childhood.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, so talented.
Such an amazing person.
And I was Was he a dancer?
No.
Musical theater.
Okay, cool.
Like very like verybeautiful singing voice.

(01:09:19):
But um, when I, we both moved to New York.
Yeah.
And that's when I was dating my likelong distance Guatemala boyfriend.
Yeah.
He wouldn't, he would like hardlylet me leave the house, like mm-hmm.
On the phone.
It was just like, who are you with?
What are you doing?
And Austin and I, very toxic.
We were best, like, we werealmost best friends in college.
Yeah.
Like, we were very, very close.
And um, we were supposed to meet upfor coffee and my boyfriend at the

(01:09:45):
time was like, oh, so you can fuck him.
And I was like, fine, Ijust won't have any friends.
I won't do anything.
I won't leave the house.
And so I didn't see Austen.
Yeah.
I just kind of like ghosted him.
Yeah.
And that still hurts me.
Yeah.
Like, I follow him on Instagramstill and like he'll post some things
and I'm like, damn, that would'vebeen a lovely friendship to keep.
I mean, there is still time.
I guess I could like always reachout, but I just, it was just so shit.

(01:10:08):
I mean, if it's, if it'sstill hurting you Yeah.
If you're still thinking about it.
I mean, maybe he'll listen to this,but you should like, reach out to him
and be like, Hey, like what I did.
In college when we were in New York.
Yeah.
Was really harmful.
Yeah.
And I still think about it and I apologizeand I'm glad to see your success.
I hate what that like in mylife and this is just mm-hmm.

(01:10:31):
The way it worked, I can't goback, but like toxic relationships
ruining my friendships.
I know, but like literally,I think every girl Yeah.
Has a toxic relationship thathas ruined their friendships.
Yeah.
Like for sure.
Like my toxic boyfriend, all of, well,two out of, I guess like the three
boyfriends I've had were toxic and Idefinitely have lost friends or like

(01:10:55):
did bad shit to friends throughout.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's like, it happenslike, yeah, we, I was 20.
Exactly.
And like we can only livein the present right now.
And that's.
That's water under the bridge Bay.
It's so crazy to evenlike ask me that question.
'cause I like, I, I reallyam hurt by that whole thing.
Yeah.
Like, I, I'm hurt that I hurt him.

(01:11:17):
Yeah, exactly.
Like he is like the kind of personthat you really don't wanna hurt.
Like, lovely.
And like that would belike an amends, right?
Yeah.
And we were talking about amendsin the last meeting and just a
way of like, sometime the smalleramends that like, aren't your
parents or aren't your ex-boyfriend.
The smaller ones are actually like moreimpactful, as impactful as the big ones.
Yeah.
Because it it's small but itholds a lot of weight in you.

(01:11:40):
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
When it's like your parents oryour sister, you're like, wow.
Yeah.
You know, I could stab you in thethroat and we're still family.
Yeah.
But yeah, it, it's hardto stab your friends Yeah.
And come back.
It's hard.
It's hard.
It hurts.
And now I have to like admit that I didthat and like, why and all these years.
And then I'm like, well,it's been fucking 10 years.
Yeah.
And I wasn't, he's probably noteven like worried about it at all.
He's probably like, oh, I didn'teven know what happened to you.

(01:12:01):
Like, thank you for saying that.
I'm glad you're doing better.
You know what, I'm gonnamessage him after this.
Oh my God.
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned.
Um, okay.
I'm gonna just round this off now becauseI feel like this is a good way to end it.
Okay.
Talking about Pete, talking about he,you know, they're talking about all
these different versions of themselves.
Mm-hmm.
And when they were drinking and ifthat's still them and if they've changed.

(01:12:21):
And I was kind of wondering
how, when did you realize, or when did youstart to realize that you like yourself?
Good question.
Thank you.
Honestly, I think
probably when me and my rehab boyfriendlike broke up 'cause he relapsed.

(01:12:46):
Mm-hmm.
And I started like diving intothe steps with my sponsor.

Heather (01:12:51):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (01:12:51):
I was probably like four months sober.
I feel like that's when I started to likemyself and to like what I was like doing.
Mm. That's very nice.
Like even there was glimpses in rehabwhere I would look at the mirror and
be like, oh, okay, like we got this.
Yeah.
But I don't think Ireally liked myself yet.
I was just like, I guesswilling to like myself in rehab.

(01:13:14):
Yeah.
Looking in the mirror.
Like I do remember that, but Ithink the confidence and the being
okay by myself really happened.
Yeah.
At that moment.
I think you're probably ontosomething with the like breakups.
Mm-hmm.
Because I was dating my rehabboyfriend for like a year.
Yeah.
And that was really helpful.

(01:13:34):
Yeah, for sure.
And I actually think I startedto like myself in rehab.
Mm-hmm.
I think.
I was really scared to go to rehabbecause I was like, I do one thing
and it's drink and then it's talking.
Yeah.
And I don't know how to makefriends or who I, I didn't even know
who I was, so I'm like, oh fuck.
All I've done is like, lookat myself in the mirror for
the past like, what, 15 years?

(01:13:55):
And be like, you're fat.
You're disgusting.
You're ugly.
You're a bad dancer.
You're this, this and that.
And I always felt like that'snot a hundred percent true.
Mm-hmm.
Like I always felt a little bit of like,yeah, but you're also like a good person.
Mm-hmm.
And then in rehab, when I was like makingfriends and having a good, having a good

(01:14:17):
time, I was like, okay, without mirrors.
Mm. And without anyonehere knowing my past.
Mm-hmm.
And anyone knowing like whatmy body has looked like before.
Mm-hmm.
I'm kind of good company.
Yeah.
Like, okay.
That's interesting.
Mm-hmm.
And then I think I was on such asurge when I left rehab that like,

(01:14:37):
I really did start liking myself.
I was like, I'm doing all of these things.
I like moved into a new house.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm sober.
And like that was so amazing to me thatI was like, no, of course, of course.
You're a cool person 'cause you got sober.
Yeah.
Now I go through theselike, you fucking idiot.
Or like, I am so stupid.
Mm-hmm.
But like, it's not the same.
It's not the same.

(01:14:57):
It's not this like deep hatred for myself.
It's like I feel like I wasalways constantly waiting for
like the real me to come through.
Mm-hmm.
And now that I'm sober, I'm like,oh yeah, this is the real me.
Yeah.
And I don't like her all the time.
No.
But we're not perfect just 'causewe're sober, we're not perfect.
Sometimes she does thingsand I'm like, are you okay?
Yeah.
Ooh.

(01:15:18):
But I do love myself.
Yeah.
And I honestly think I'mkind of fucking cool.
You are cool.
So I think like, yeah, I thinkwithin, I think pretty early on into
rehab, I started like my myself.
Yeah.
And then you have to go through allthe shit you've done and you're like,
oh, I like myself less, but Yeah.
But like, you trust yourself.
That's, I was about to say, probablyit right when we first became friends.

(01:15:40):
Yeah.
I was fucking scared.
Do you remember when we werewalking in my car, we couldn't
get into the parking garage?
Yes.
We were with Maddie and I waslike, thank you guys for mm-hmm.
Being friends with me.
Yeah.
Because I didn't have friends before.
Yeah.
Like, I was drunk, so I was like, thankyou guys for like, I was like, I know.
I'm like.
Not cool or like weird, butlike I really appreciate it.
I feel like I have friends for the firsttime and so I'm like gonna be whatever.

(01:16:04):
And I think that's so nice.
That's what like soberpeople have to do, right?
Yeah.
When they like don't know, likewe, we need to communicate Yeah.
As sober people and like tell everyonehow we're feeling at all times.
That they know Yeah.
What's going on.
Well, yeah, I was just like, and Ithink that's like, like something
cute that like you needed to doand like obviously that's adorable.
And I'll always remember that moment.

(01:16:25):
I know.
I'm like Zoe and Maddie likekeep inviting me to stuff.
Yeah.
So like what I've doneso far is good enough.
Mm-hmm.
And even if it is just like, we're friends'cause we're sober, I'm like, that's okay.
Mm-hmm.
Zoe thinks I'm cool enough tobe in this, at this dinner.
And then I just started toactually trust that like Yeah.
I was enough of a friend Yeah.
To be friends.

(01:16:45):
So.
Yeah.
You are, you are a really good friend.
Oh.
And I am just so happy that we have this.
I know.
Me too.
And that our community is growing.
New couch.
New vibes.
New couch.
New vibe.
New single era for me.
Yes.
New best friend of the single era for you.
I'm so excited to go onthis journey with you.
I love We should on dates together.

(01:17:06):
Like you should just come on the dates.
I totally can.
Oh, we have really fun.
Me and Maddie can justlike go and like hang out.
Yeah, yeah.
Or we could double dateevery first date I have.
We go with you and your boyfriend.
Yeah.
That could be fun.
Yeah, that would be fun.
They'd be like, what's this codependency?
That is not we.
We'll figure that out next year.
We're not working on that right now.
Thank you so much.

(01:17:26):
Um, but yeah.
Okay.
Well, do you wanna go get brunch?
Let's go get brunch and Yeah.
Hopefully we can talk in Italy.
That'll be fun.
Yeah.
We'll talk in Italy.
I love you.
I love you.
Proud of you.
I'm proud of you.
Proud of you.
I'm proud of you.
Goodbye.
Next time you see Zoe, she'll be in Italy.
Yeah.
You'll see me in Italy next.

(01:17:48):
And I'll be here.
I might have a date tonight, so we'll see.
Ooh.
Yeah, we, yeah, we'll see.
Date, date, date, date, date, date, date.
Okay.

Heather (01:17:54):
Goodbye.
Bye guys.
Love you.
Thanks for listening to Girl Un Drunk.
You can follow us on Instagram and TikTokat Girl Un Drunk podcast and or send
me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.

(01:18:15):
That's a good point.

Zoe (01:18:18):
That face you just made at me.
You were so disgusted.
You always do like crazy shitlike just chew right into
the mic or like slurp just.

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