Peeing Hot Knives

Episode Transcript
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Heather (00:00):
This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be
difficult for some listeners.
Please take care while listening.
Welcome to Girl, Undrunk.
I'm Heather, your host.
Last week, Zoe and I dove headfirst intothe chaos of dating sex and intimacy
before sobriety and this week we'reflipping the script and talking about what

(00:21):
it all looks like after getting sober.
You might notice the energy feels alittle more grounded, and honestly,
that's the magic of sober dating.
Yeah, it's terrifying to date withoutthe safety net of lost inhibitions.
It's also where realauthenticity starts to grow.
Dating after sobriety is no longer aboutputting on a show or numbing how you feel.

(00:44):
It's about building healthierrelationships first with yourself
and then with whoever youdecide to let into your life.
As two women in our late twenties, earlythirties, that's a big part of our lives
right now, and we wanna hear from you too.
Do you have any wild, hilarious,or heartbreaking dating
stories pre or post sobriety?

(01:05):
Slide into our dms @girlundrunk, oremail us at heather@girlundrunk.com
'cause at the end of the day, itwas never really about the boys.
It's about building a sobercommunity where we get to show
up messy, real, and still loved.
Okay, let's dive in.
You're listening to Girl, Undrunk.

(01:27):
Hi everyone.
Welcome back to episode, well,this is actually episode 10.

Zoe (01:32):
Wow.

Heather (01:32):
But it's episode nine for us.

Zoe (01:34):
Right.

Heather (01:34):
But it's episode 10.

Zoe (01:35):
Because you cheated on me last week.

Heather (01:36):
Well, you left me.

Zoe (01:38):
That's true.
If I, If your man leaves,you expect to get cheated on.

Heather (01:43):
And that's exactly right.
And that is exactly right.
If you're not having sex with your man,he's having sex with somebody else.

Zoe (01:49):
Exactly.

Heather (01:49):
He's getting it somewhere.

Zoe (01:50):
So I left Heather and then she fucked without me.

Heather (01:53):
I, my sister.

Zoe (01:56):
On the pod.

Heather (01:57):
On the pod.
I don't like when we'reseparated, by the way.

Zoe (02:00):
I know you keep saying that to me, and I, I know.
It's hard.

Heather (02:05):
But like, do you feel, like, do you feel like it's
annoying that I say that to you?

Zoe (02:08):
No.
I like, I just feel bad.

Heather (02:10):
Oh no.
I'm just, I just want you toknow that I love and miss you.

Zoe (02:12):
Okay.

Heather (02:12):
You can go off and do whatever you want.

Zoe (02:14):
But you'll be loving and missing me, and I'll be loving and missing you.

Heather (02:17):
It's just, it's kind of like we're twins separated
at birth a little bit.

Zoe (02:21):
I feel the same way.

Heather (02:22):
You know?

Zoe (02:23):
When you were feeling bad last week, I knew that you were in a bad spot.
Like, I felt that.

Heather (02:28):
It's like, Lindsay Lohan in that movie, I don't know what movie
it is, but it was like after shewent to rehab and then like, she did
a movie that was like a scary moviewhere she was separated at birth.
Not the Parent Trap.
Another one.
And then anything that would happento one twin, it would happen to
the other one and one of 'em.

Zoe (02:45):
And they would feel it?

Heather (02:46):
Yeah and I think one was like kidnapped and like had like
her limbs cut off and then the otherone was like lying in her bed and
then like her limbs would fall.
I'm not really sure.

Zoe (02:54):
That's the movies Heather watches.

Heather (02:57):
Welcome back to the movie review.
When you're away, I justwatch horrible things and I-

Zoe (03:01):
Yeah, you're like, I wanna feel pain.

Heather (03:04):
Honestly.

Zoe (03:05):
I wanna feel something.

Heather (03:06):
Speaking of feeling something, how is your mental health Zoe?

Zoe (03:09):
My mental health is great.
I was away all weekend and coming back tothe city and coming home is like always
a bittersweet feeling, 'cause I wasaround so many people all weekend, right.
So coming home and havingnobody, I was like, ugh.
It's all by myself now.
But I do like being alone.
It just like gets a littlebit to get used to it again.

(03:32):
Because I was like, oh,I kind of feel lonely.
But I was like, no, I love beingalone, so why am I feeling like this?

Heather (03:38):
It's just so, such a stark difference.

Zoe (03:40):
It is such a stark difference being around so much family all
weekend and coming home to the bigcity and being by myself in my condos.

Heather (03:47):
And your social battery is like so high.
Do you get fried easily with that?

Zoe (03:52):
Yeah, I do.
I was really exhausted all weekend.
I like had a bunch ofenergy drinks every day.
Matcha and-

Heather (04:00):
Oh man.
What does [ name bleeped out] drink?
Is he drinking matcha?

Zoe (04:04):
Yeah, I got, well, I say that I got him into it but he's like, no,
I was drinking matcha before you.
Okay.

Heather (04:11):
I don't believe you.

Zoe (04:11):
You weren't drinking as much matcha before me, so.

Heather (04:15):
No, you're nothing without me.

Zoe (04:17):
Exactly.
No.
He keeps, he is now saying thatI'm right all the time and I'm
like, Ugh, I'm teaching you, good.

Heather (04:23):
Yes.
Oh, I like that.

Zoe (04:25):
And he also put on sunscreen today for the first time 'cause I
gave him a sunscreen from the clinic.
Elta UV Clear.

Heather (04:34):
Love.

Zoe (04:35):
And yeah, he texted me saying he put on his sunscreen this morning.

Heather (04:38):
That is great.

Zoe (04:39):
I'm so proud of him.

Heather (04:39):
I like.
See, Women in stem.

Zoe (04:42):
Women in stem.
We're teaching them.

Heather (04:43):
We are.
You're welcome.

Zoe (04:46):
He also reached out to someone on his meeting yesterday and this
guy will probably sponsor him.
He has to do a fewthings this week for him.
And then it will-

Heather (04:57):
Is he cool?
Does he seem cool?

Zoe (04:59):
We didn't really talk too much about it 'cause I like wanna
keep, like that's his thing.
He needs to figure it out on his own.
But he seems like excited about it.
He reached out to himbecause he seemed cool.

Heather (05:08):
That's nice.
Oh, has anyone reached out to you?

Zoe (05:11):
No.

Heather (05:12):
Oh,
they will.
They will.

Zoe (05:15):
Oh.
I didn't go to a meeting for, I haven'tgone to a meeting in a week and a half.

Heather (05:18):
Oh my God.
Do you feel like you'reon the edge of drinking?

Zoe (05:20):
No.

Heather (05:21):
Okay.
That's good.

Zoe (05:22):
I feel good.
I feel excited to seeeverybody though tomorrow.

Heather (05:24):
Do you feel it when you don't go?

Zoe (05:28):
More like miss my people, I think a bit.
I was so distracted this week thatI couldn't really think about it.
But yeah, I'm excited.

Heather (05:37):
But you didn't, you didn't go to a meeting over there?

Zoe (05:39):
No, I don't know.
The meetings over thereare probably not the best.

Heather (05:44):
Like not cool and fun and funky and fresh.

Zoe (05:46):
Just probably more older people that I don't really relate to.
Yeah, I would if I needed to, if Iwas feeling, if something happened
in Sarnia and I felt like the urge todrink, then yes, I would definitely
reach out to a meeting, even thoughit's probably not like what I'm
used to in Toronto, the meetings I'mused to in Toronto, but I felt fine.

Heather (06:06):
I mean, they're definitely cooler in Toronto.
They just have to be.

Zoe (06:09):
They have to be.

Heather (06:09):
They just have to be, you know?

Zoe (06:12):
Everything's cooler in the city.
Oh.
There were some people I met though,that's like so small town vibes.

Heather (06:18):
Oh no.

Zoe (06:18):
And they're like, "Oh my God, you're from the city.
It's so expensive there.
"Guest: True.
And blah, blah, blah.
I'm like, yeah.

Heather (06:26):
I know.
Sometimes I forget that we live here.

Zoe (06:29):
I mean, it's like I, I was like, I like the grass here guys,
but that's like all you have.

Heather (06:33):
That's exactly right.
You have grass and it like smells good.

Zoe (06:36):
Oh my God.
I got out of the car and it smelledlike freshy cut grass and I was
like, oh my God this is amazing.

Heather (06:41):
I actually hate that smell.

Zoe (06:43):
Really?

Heather (06:43):
Oh my god.
Fresh cut grass makes me nauseous.
Not much doesn't make me nauseous,but that is a high contender.
I don't like it.

Zoe (06:50):
What's your favorite smell, you think?

Heather (06:54):
My favorite smell is probably like-

Zoe (06:56):
A perfume?

Heather (06:57):
Like I love a vanilla.
I mean, I love Crayola smellymarkers from the early two thousands.
I love the black one.

Zoe (07:06):
Were you sniffing them as a child?

Heather (07:08):
Yes.
And I also, I was thinking aboutthat, that I would sniff them to
the point of like, I would get thelight and the tingles in my head
and like the lights in my eyes.
I would sniff them to that point.
And I asked my sister if shedid that, and she said no.
And I was like, uh.

Zoe (07:23):
I get it.
I get it.
No, I think I was always scared tosniff them because really, I guess
I was like scared at that point inmy life before the barrier broke.

Heather (07:31):
I really picked and choose what I was afraid of, and that makes
me feel like mental illness was likedeep within before, because things I
was afraid of was like battery acid.
I was afraid to touch batteries.
I was afraid to touch the remote if mymom had cleaned the kitchen and I like
put my hand on the, on the counter, I'mlike, oh my God, this is like bleach.
I'm mean, this is gonna get into my pores.

(07:52):
Everything.
I thought I was gonna die, anything I did.

Zoe (07:55):
Interesting.

Heather (07:55):
But then I would like huff.
Markers.
It, I don't know.

Zoe (08:01):
Picking and choosing.

Heather (08:01):
Picking and choosing.
Maybe.
'cause I had control over thatand I wasn't gonna get like,
secretly poisoned by my mom.
My mental health is fine.
I would say my-

Zoe (08:10):
Your mental health is on the rise I think.

Heather (08:13):
Here's the thing, I'm better now, but what we have all
discovered is that I definitely hada concussion, like when I slammed my
head into the stairs a few weeks agoand then was like very depressed and
unwilling to do anything for two weeks.
Full concussion.

Zoe (08:27):
Full concussion.
Even if it's, if it actually wasn'ta concussion, it's good to just say
it was a concussion because at leastwe can like pinpoint it to something.

Heather (08:35):
I think so.
I'd assume it was, I mean, I've hadconcussions before dancing, but I just
like, that's 'cause I like get kickedin the head so you're like, oh right.
A thing.
This is like, I bumped my head but I wasvery depressed and I was not well and
I was getting all those brain shocks.

Zoe (08:49):
Yeah, that would make sense.

Heather (08:51):
And now I, I'm two days off my antidepressants 'cause I ran out.

Zoe (08:56):
Oh no.

Heather (08:56):
And it was Easter.
So I'm picking them up today and I'mgonna pick up some new antibiotics
'cause your girl has a UTI.

Zoe (09:05):
Woo.
How did you get that?
UTI baby?

Heather (09:08):
You know what I think it is?

Zoe (09:09):
What?

Heather (09:09):
Well, there's a few things.
Usually I don't get them.
I, and also for everyone listening,all of you listen, like, you know,
yelling into your speakers rightnow, being like, pee after sex.
I did.
I do.
And no, I don't wipe backto front either, okay.
I'm very clean.

Zoe (09:26):
I've never gotten a UTI.

Heather (09:28):
I never use condoms and I'm wondering if maybe
because a condom was used.

Zoe (09:33):
Oh, you guys use a condom?

Heather (09:35):
Yes.

Zoe (09:35):
Oh, interesting.

Heather (09:36):
Do you not use them with him?

Zoe (09:38):
No.

Heather (09:38):
Ah.

Zoe (09:40):
Did he initiate that?

Heather (09:42):
I asked.

Zoe (09:43):
Okay.

Heather (09:43):
But they were mine.

Zoe (09:45):
Got it.

Heather (09:45):
I asked him, I was like, are we using condoms?
And he was like, uh.
And I said, okay.
But now I feel like, now I feel badbecause you guys weren't using condoms.
So is it me am I gross?
Does he hate me?

Zoe (10:01):
No, he doesn't hate you.

Heather (10:02):
Just No.
Maybe because I offered, he waslike, yeah, we probably should.

Zoe (10:04):
Exactly.
You brought it up.
So he is a good guy.
He's gonna say yes.

Heather (10:08):
But good to know that I can say we don't have to.

Zoe (10:12):
Yeah, I know you would think that he needs to use condoms 'cause he has
a wife, but he don't actually need to,I think he gets tested very regularly.

Heather (10:20):
Oh really?
Do you get tested regularly?

Zoe (10:23):
I used to, I used to get tested like every six months.

Heather (10:27):
Oh wow.
I feel like I've been tested or I've hadmy blood taken recently and then I just
go like, oh, just do the full thing.
So my mental health isall right, concussion.
Now we're coming back andnow I am peeing hot knives.
But that's a kit.
We're working on it.

Zoe (10:45):
I've never had a UTI.
I'm such a pick me.

Heather (10:48):
You are such a pick me in that way now.
That's really surprising to me.
Like I, I don't know,but I, you know what?
I feel like UTIs, it like really dependson your anatomy because like some people
really don't get them like cavities.
Like some people don't get cavities.

Zoe (11:03):
I've only gotten one cavity.

Heather (11:04):
Me too.
I've only gotten one cavity.

Zoe (11:05):
That's where we relate, that's where we are twins.

Heather (11:07):
Our mouths are the same.
Our pussies are not.

Zoe (11:10):
We're getting there.

Heather (11:11):
Well wait, we can, we can actually ask someone now.
We can ask for comparison.

Zoe (11:14):
Yeah, we can ask.

Heather (11:16):
This is actually, I don't wanna know.

Zoe (11:18):
I don't wanna know either.

Heather (11:18):
I don't wanna know.
That's a, we're just, what do you callit when you're like foreshadowing.
We're foreshadowing.

Zoe (11:25):
But I thought that I had a UTI once because my pussy was smelling nasty.

Heather (11:32):
Okay, cool.
And uh, I went, that wouldbe like a yeast infection.

Zoe (11:35):
Well, so I thought it was either yeast infection or your ti
Anyways, I went to the walk-in clinic.
This is when I was in active addiction.
And then they just gave me antibiotics.
And you're not supposed to likedrink when you're taking antibiotics,
but I obviously kept drinking.

Heather (11:49):
Oh, always, always did.

Zoe (11:51):
Always.
And then I slept with my ex duringthis time, and then after we were done
he was like, do you have an IUD now?
And I said, no, I don't have an IUD now.
He's like, weird because it feltlike I was hitting something
when I was fucking you.
So I'm like, oh, that is weird.

(12:11):
Interesting.
Go back home, drop him off, whatever.
And then I'm thinking in bed.
Well, I'm trying to go to bed.
I'm like, oh, I wonder what he meantwhile he was hitting something.
So then I finger myself andsure enough, I feel cotton.

Heather (12:26):
Oh my God.
Oh my, oh my God.

Zoe (12:30):
Oh my God.

Heather (12:31):
Tampon.

Zoe (12:32):
Tampon.
Tampon was stuck up inside me for a week.

Heather (12:37):
Holy shit.
Did it hurt?

Zoe (12:38):
No, it didn't hurt.
And I did fist myself and grab it.

Heather (12:47):
Was this, could you even get the string at that point, or was it just yeah-

Zoe (12:49):
No, I had to grab it.

Heather (12:51):
Wow.

Zoe (12:52):
My mother walked in to my room during this time and she's
like, is everything okay in here?
I'm like, no, get out.
I think my tampon stuck inside me.

Heather (13:00):
Oh my god.

Zoe (13:01):
And, I got it out.
It was the most horrible-

Heather (13:04):
How'd you get it out?
Were you sitting on the toilet or were you

Zoe (13:05):
No, I was just laying in bed like grabbing.
Yeah, grabbing.
It's horrible fishing.
That is.
And yeah, when it cameout, it smelled horrible.
I went down to the garage to throwit in the garbage in the garage
because I didn't, I couldn't havethat just sitting in the bathroom.
It was like black disgusting.
Guys I'm so sorry if you're, if you'reeating, you're drinking I'm so sorry.

Heather (13:28):
No, but I think it's really relatable.
I bet you that happensto a lot more people.

Zoe (13:31):
Well, and then I went to the doctor and he was like, this happens a lot.
Don't worry.
Blah, blah, blah.

Heather (13:36):
Yeah, were we friends at the time yet when I got my diva cup, my
like menstrual cup stuck inside me?
This was probably-

Zoe (13:44):
I think I vaguely remember this.

Heather (13:46):
I must have told you.

Zoe (13:47):
Because I think you must have complained about it at the clinic

Heather (13:49):
'Cause I was probably, I was telling everybody, and we must
have been friends at that point,but I got my, I had same thing.
You're supposed to be able to have sexwith these menstrual cups in, so like
if you don't know what it is, it's likeinstead of a tampon, it's like a little
cup and it's like round and squishyand you can just like fish it up your
vagina and then it like folds out andit's literally a cup and it catches
your blood and then you pull out.

(14:10):
You really can just like, put yourfinger in around the ridge and grab it.
That's how you're supposed to get it out.
Easy peasy.
Not an old Heather, because this girldecided to have sex with it because I went
on a date and I was like, I need to keep-

Zoe (14:21):
but they tell you you can't have sex on it.

Heather (14:24):
But it shoved itself right up and it like, it suction itself to my cervix.

Zoe (14:28):
Oh no.

Heather (14:28):
And so I literally couldn't even-

Zoe (14:30):
Even couldn't grab it.

Heather (14:30):
Uhuh nothing.
I was putting tools, I wasbuying things on Amazon to like
get it out like a hook thing.
I went to four different doctorsand they said, no, no, no, you
have to go to the hospital.
And I said, I'm not going tofucking St. Joe's to sit there for
nine hours for them to a man tocome and put his elbow inside me.
Absolutely not.
So I, uh, I finally went to thethe walkin at church in Carleton.

(14:53):
So it's like, it's very L-G-B-T-Q.
And the man, like I told him whathappened and he was like, he tried
to get it and then he's like, I don'tknow if I'm gonna be able to get this.
And I was like, ah.
And he's like, I can feel it.
And I'm like, okay, well if you canfeel it, do you think that I can
shove my hand up there and get it?
And he was like, I mean, ifyou really want, I can try.
And he was like pushing on my stomachand like had his like two fingers

(15:14):
inside me and like fully fisting me.
And then when he got it out, it wentlike it sucked, sucked himself off.
And I was like, ah.
And then he just threw it in the trash,like it was like a dead squirrel.
It was horrible.
And I'm pretty sure he hated me, but Iwas like, this is why you're a walk-in
Doctor sir, for situations like this.

Zoe (15:32):
Was he gay?

Heather (15:33):
No.

Zoe (15:33):
Oh.

Heather (15:34):
And he was so hot, but I was like, priorities aside, sir, get this out.
Me.

Zoe (15:38):
Yeah, he was so hot so you're like, yes.
Go in and get it, please.

Heather (15:42):
Oh no, see that?
No.
Okay.
Okay, so we're getting into boys now.

Zoe (15:51):
Boys After sobriety.

Heather (15:53):
So last week we talked about BS Boys and now-

Zoe (15:57):
Such bullshit.

Heather (15:59):
Such bullshit.
And now this week we're getting intodating and men and sex after sobriety.
It didn't take either of us very longto start dating, I would maybe not say
dating but like putting ourselves backout there into the industry of it all.

Zoe (16:17):
Into the industry of dating.

Heather (16:18):
Which started in rehab.

Zoe (16:21):
In rehab.
Yes.

Heather (16:22):
Do you wanna talk about your rehab boyfriend?

Zoe (16:24):
Sure.

Heather (16:24):
Do you wanna, how you guys met, when you met?

Zoe (16:26):
Yeah, I mean, as soon as I got in there, he was in there as well.
But we didn't-

Heather (16:32):
He was there before you?

Zoe (16:32):
I think so, 'cause he left before me.
We didn't talk though really until like,maybe a week or two after I was in there.
But really my, the closest friend thatI had in rehab, she was a little bit boy
crazy and she was like trying to like beon the prowl and like looking for the men.
I wasn't so like that.

(16:53):
But yeah, since she was like that I waslike, Hey, yeah, let's like find the boys.

Heather (16:57):
How many people were at your rehab?

Zoe (17:00):
Maybe like 50.

Heather (17:02):
Oh, okay.
Mine was like.
Nine.

Zoe (17:05):
Yeah, I'd say 50.
Pretty even, or no, there wasdefinitely more men than girls.
Maybe like 70% boys.
30% women.
Women-

Heather (17:16):
Like they'd say they're usually, that is usually the, the ratio.

Zoe (17:21):
So I think our first like little hangout date, we all played pool together.
Us girls against him and his brother.
And he was like, cute.
We had fun.
We were flirting.
There was a time around the camp,uh, we had a bonfire, and me
and him sat beside each other.
And that's when I, I started opening upto him about like sexual stuff, because I

(17:43):
was like, so are you jerking off in there?

Heather (17:45):
Jerking off in where?

Zoe (17:46):
In the rehab.

Heather (17:47):
Oh.

Zoe (17:48):
We started talking about jerking off beside each other
at this campfire in rehab.

Heather (17:53):
Were you jerking off in rehab?

Zoe (17:54):
No.

Heather (17:55):
Okay.

Zoe (17:56):
I was just like kind of-

Heather (17:57):
Wait, hold on.
No, we gotta go back.
So you're sitting around this campfire.
You guys have, what I know aboutthis relationship is that you
guys have met played pool, andnow you're at the campfire.
You're a pervert.
I know,

Zoe (18:10):
I know.
I know.
No, he was even like, wow, you'rereally like opening up tonight.
And I was like, oh like, I don't know.
I'm feeling loose by the campfire.

Heather (18:17):
Oh, you're also in rehab.
It's like whatever.

Zoe (18:19):
I think I love a campfire.
I think a campfire like reallyignites something inside of me.
I get it.
Yeah, I get it.
You know?
So we talk like pretty sexual that nightand like pretty like profanity stuff.
I don't know.
And then I-

Heather (18:36):
Just like at the campfire?

Zoe (18:38):
Well like everyone else is talking and me and him are just
talking individually, like no oneelse is hearing our conversation.
We're just like kind of flirting,having this nice little sexual chat.
He was jerking off in rehabobviously, 'cause he's a boy.
I was like, I can't jerk off in rehabbecause I don't have my phone and

(18:58):
I, so I don't have access to porn.

Heather (19:00):
You can't use your imagination?

Zoe (19:02):
No.
I can't use my imagination.
Nothing up there.
So he thought that was weirdand he was like, you should
go try to jerk off tonight.
And I was like, no, I'm not gonna do that.
To you?
No.
So we were basically just like reallyclose after that sexual campfire talk
and the counselors would get mad atus 'cause we were sitting too close

(19:22):
together and touching each other's hand.
We didn't even kiss though in rehab.
There was no kissing.

Heather (19:27):
Oh, you were actively like trying to not do that?

Zoe (19:31):
Just because I didn't know what it was gonna be after,
you know, after we got out.
I was just a little bit scared.
I was scared to kiss him too,because I would never kissed
someone being sober, really.
I was, there was justlike a lot of feelings.
I was definitely way more nervousaround him than any other guy,
because I was in rehab, I was sober.

(19:53):
I was scared to do anything.
Really.
And then after we got out,he iediately texted me.
And then we wereiediately like FaceTiming.
The weekend after I got out of rehab, myparents kicked me out of my condo because
their friends were staying at the condo.
They had plans to stay there.
So I had to like leave forthe night, which is so rude.

(20:16):
I just got outta rehab.
So I told him that and he ended upbooking a room in Niagara and we
went to Niagara for the weekend.

Heather (20:25):
Oh, that's nice.

Zoe (20:26):
It was really nice.
That's where we hadsex for the first time.

Heather (20:30):
Oh my God.
Okay.
How was it?

Zoe (20:33):
I mean, like, I could tell like he hadn't had sex in a long time
and like I hadn't had sex in a longtime, so it wasn't great, you know?

Heather (20:42):
Was it cute though?
Like, did you like himat this point still?

Zoe (20:46):
I definitely liked being around him.
I don't know if I, he wasjust like someone that cared
about me, which was nice.
Like, it felt nice to be cared about.
I think I was still like, I know Ishouldn't be doing this because everyone's
telling me not to date after rehab.
So I think I was kind of like,closed off a bit because I knew

(21:07):
what I was doing was wrong.
So I wasn't like letting myselflike, like him like that.

Heather (21:13):
Interesting.
That's interesting 'cause Ifeel like in addiction you
don't really care about that.
Like you're, you're notthinking like future thinking.
What's gonna happen if I, you know,people are just collateral damage often.
So you're like, this oneyou're really thinking about.
Like the second you get sober,you're like, oh wait, hold on.

Zoe (21:30):
Well everyone was just telling me that.
Right.
So I, and I wanted to do everythingthat people were telling me
because I wanted to stay sober.
Like, it really, that's what I caredabout the most was just staying sober.
But yeah, he took me to meetings.
He was great in that way.
Like he really showed me whatyou're supposed to do after rehab,

(21:53):
he introduced me to my sponsor andthen when he relapsed I was like,
okay, I can't be with you anymore.
So I got out of rehabmaybe like mid-December.
He relapsed maybe like before Valentine'sDay 'cause I remember being like, oh,
we didn't make it to Valentine's Day.

Heather (22:15):
Which is super normal.
I mean, like had he been in before?

Zoe (22:19):
He's been in and outta rehab for a while.
But I think when that happened,I thought to myself like,
oh, am I gonna stay with him?
Like, do I like him that much tostay with him and ride this out?
The answer was no.
Like I didn't care about him thatmuch to ride it out with him.
So I just cut it off.

Heather (22:38):
Do you think that it was real or do you think that this was a trauma bond?

Zoe (22:44):
It was definitely a trauma bond.
I definitely needed someone in that momentand I think I just like latched onto him.
But when it was time to saygoodbye, like I was able to do
that, I could separate that.
And I think when that happened iswhen I really like found myself within
sobriety, like before I was leaningon him to do everything, you know?

(23:05):
When that happened, I really had tolean on myself and that's when I think
I grew the most in my sobriety was whenhe relapsed, like from February to maybe
the summer, like that's when I reallydid all of like my growing my steps.
Like that's where I really found myself.
Um.
Which was really great.

Heather (23:24):
Do you, have you talked to him since?
Do you know?

Zoe (23:27):
Haven't talked to him since?
I've seen his brother.
One of the guys at the meetings, he'sfriends with him and I think maybe a
year ago he said that he went back forrehab, but it was an all boys rehab.
And I was like, okay, that's good for him.
You know, like he definitely needs-

Heather (23:42):
You need to focus.

Zoe (23:43):
Need to focus on yourself and not try to just find the next rehab girl for sure.

Heather (23:48):
Because relationships are addictions too and I-

Zoe (23:51):
It's just like leaning on someone else for your own happiness
is I think, what we were both doing.

Heather (23:57):
Well, when I went to rehab, I was already there for four
weeks, five weeks because I was, Istayed for six and a half, I think
I went to rehab kind of being like,I'll probably kiss somebody here.
I don't know why.
I'm just like that.
Like I have a feeling.

Zoe (24:15):
You're a romantic.

Heather (24:16):
I am.
And like.
I know that like I'm really good in thesekinds of situations and like people fall
in love with me when we're outside ofsociety because it's just like, you know,
like if I went to space with someone Icould, they would fall in love with me.
And that's not really because ofme, that's just like I'm a very
good person to trauma bond with.
I really do think that.
I went to rehab.

(24:36):
I was there for five weeks and then.
On my last week thisguy, this guy showed up.

Zoe (24:41):
Before that guy showed up were you like into anybody else there?

Heather (24:45):
No, no, no.
I was with my friend Kayla.
We were like best friends.
And yeah, we were codependent, I think.

Zoe (24:53):
You and your friend?

Heather (24:54):
Me and Kayla.
But we were also like, I rememberthe counselors would like be kind of
bitchy about it and they'd be like,you guys are really codependent.
And I'm like, yeah, maybe she's myfucking best friend and we wanna gossip.
Like, sorry.

Zoe (25:03):
My best friend in rehab too the counselors were like, well, I think I
brought it up to the counselors 'cause Iwas like, oh, she's like really like needy
and they were like, yeah, like I thinkyou need to set some boundaries with her.
And I did.
And that was like one of like a pivotaltime in rehab for me because I don't
even remember what was happening, butshe was being very attached and very-

Heather (25:24):
Yeah.

Zoe (25:25):
Like mad when I was talking to other people.
I'm not cheat on you, girl.

Heather (25:30):
But I, I think that's also, I mean the, the best friend
thing in rehab is trauma bonding.
I remember they told us, like, one guycame in, this guy Jay tatted tip to tail
so hot and he was like, you know, youguys are friends in here now, but like,
you're not gonna be friends after that,so you have to be sober for yourself.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Stop telling me we're notgonna be friends after this.

(25:50):
I'm gonna freak out.
But-

Zoe (25:52):
I'm not friends with any of my rehab people.

Heather (25:54):
Oh, I am.
But we also had a smaller group of people.
Like we were very, we was more intimate.
We don't like hang all the time, butI'm definitely friends with people.
And on my fifth week or my sixthweek or something, this guy walks in.
I was like, ha ha, that's the one.
But no, before that there was nobodythat I was like, interested in at all.

Zoe (26:13):
So as soon as you saw this man, you were like, oh, he's hot.
I'm pouncing.

Heather (26:17):
He was like, really cute.
And like I could tell thathe was really fucking nervous
and I was like, this is so-

Zoe (26:24):
You're like, he's vulnerable.
I'm going in.

Heather (26:26):
I wasn't like, I, I, I always like joke with him too, where I was
like, I just kidnapped you at rehab.
But I also, at that time, anyone thatwas coming into rehab, I was like,
we're all friends here so like, I'mgonna need you to get into the fold
quickly 'cause I don't like it whenpeople are not comfortable or like
feeling like they're an outsider.

Zoe (26:44):
You wanted everyone to feel safe.
You don't want anyone to feellike an outsider 'cause you felt
like an outsider growing up.

Heather (26:49):
So I'm just like, let's make everyone comfortable.
We're all like drug addicts.
Let's just do this together.
So when he got there, I was like, perfect.
And I, that night at dinner, Iwas like, oh yeah, no, I have a
crush on this person for sure.
He was also fresh meat, so I waslike, I've been in here, I've
been in prison for six months.
I'm like, let me at him.
But then he was so quiet, so cute.
And then finally we just became friends.

(27:11):
Same thing.
We had like a campfire.
We went to AA and on the way backfrom AA, we just got closer 'cause
I think that was hard for him.
He'd never been and I already beenthere, so I was like, I'm the cool one.
And then after that we werepretty fucking inseparable.
Like, 'cause Kayla, myfriend Kayla left that day.
So I had been crying all day andthen he showed up and literally went-

Zoe (27:32):
So then you give him your full attention.

Heather (27:33):
And he literally took her room over.
So I was like, well, well nice.
Perfect for me.
And then-

Zoe (27:39):
Did you guys kiss in rehab?

Heather (27:41):
Yeah.
We were only in rehab together fora week, but it felt like forever.
But yeah, we probably kissed on likethe third or fourth day and then-

Zoe (27:51):
Any hand stuff?
I'm such a pervert.

Heather (27:55):
Well, actually, the first thing we ever did-

Zoe (28:02):
Heather-

- Heather (28:02):
We were sitting around the campfire and I
gave him a foot job over his-

Zoe (28:06):
What's with it?
With the campfires at rehab.
Literally.
What's with-

Heather (28:10):
They're horny.
They're so horny.

Zoe (28:12):
Campfires are super horny.

Heather (28:13):
They really are.

Zoe (28:14):
They ignite something in us.

Heather (28:15):
Because it's dark in it's hot.

Zoe (28:17):
You, you gave him a foot drop at the campfire.
Can't.
I'm dead.

Heather (28:20):
'Cause my feet were like on his legs and he was telling me that like-

Zoe (28:24):
Was he, is he in defeat?

Heather (28:26):
Now.
Okay.
Because of that.
But like, but before that, probably likethe day before, we were sitting in the
main area, like the living room watchinga movie and I was like touching his knee.
Okay.
So that's, no, I was a predator.
I was touching his kneeIn like a sexy way.
Like for sure.
But like in a nice comforting,like, yeah, I'm gonna fuck you,

(28:47):
but I'm also like here for you.
At the campfire he told me that insidewhen I was touching his knee, he was hard.
And I was like, you were, I didn't know.
Like, I really actually didn't know.
And he's like, yeah, I'm hard right now.
Your foot's on my dick.
And I was like, so then we didthat for a little while and then
we made out and that was hot.
And then, yeah, then we just,and then we did have sex.

Zoe (29:05):
In rehab?
Wow.

Heather (29:07):
Probably like the next day.

Zoe (29:10):
Yeah, there was always rumors going around with of people like fucking in the
gym at my rehab because there's a sectionin the gym where there's no cameras.

Heather (29:19):
Oh.

Zoe (29:20):
But literally everywhere else, like had cameras.

Heather (29:22):
There were cameras everywhere.
I don't know that peoplewere watching them.
But yeah, we did get in troublebecause I went, well, this
isn't why we got in trouble.
But I did go into his room at night likethat's, when everyone was getting ready
for bed, people were outside smokingand I like went downstairs to his room.
Went into his bed and then we had sex.
And so that was like really hot but-

Zoe (29:42):
That would be so hot.

Heather (29:43):
It was Zoe.

Zoe (29:45):
I kind of wish I fucked in rehab.

Heather (29:47):
Yeah, it was so hot and it was so like we were not
allowed to do that and our-

Zoe (29:51):
No, I was, I was trying to be a good girl in rehab for sure.

Heather (29:54):
I was too, but like, I was working so hard on my sobriety.

Zoe (29:58):
You had already worked so hard on your sobriety for the five weeks.
You got there right before youwere leaving and you're like,
okay, let's have fun before I go.

Heather (30:05):
But then we were also taking early morning walks in the
woods and like making out but thenno one actually knew what happened.
But then the day I was leaving, ourcounselor, who was, he's the head
clinician, but he's also on drugs andhe was on drugs at that point too.
You can look it up.
And he-

Zoe (30:23):
Uh, no, her rehab was kind of fucked, guys.

Heather (30:25):
It is fucked.
There's a huge lawsuit going on.
It's like he's, I mean, listen,you give some men that are drug
addicts too much fucking powerand you send them girls who are
vulnerable, who like need to get sober.
He thinks he's God.
And then, and then that man will fuck you.
Literally.
Fuck you.
Like actually sexually.
Because they think that they're,God, that's how cults start.

(30:47):
Anyway.

Zoe (30:47):
Yeah, it's, it's very iffy, like when you're choosing a rehab,
you have to like just make surethey've been around for a while.
Make sure the reviews are good,you know, like if it's too private,
it's probably not great, you know?

Heather (31:03):
I also think that like, women should run rehabs.
I'm so-

Zoe (31:06):
Should we open up a rehab?

Heather (31:08):
I just don't think that I wanna be responsible for
all of that potential chaos.

Zoe (31:11):
Yes.
It's gonna be a lot.

Heather (31:13):
You know, because you are still dealing with people who are like
in withdrawal and who like do harddrugs and who have like potentially
been to prison or like hurt people.

Zoe (31:21):
But if we employ like the right good woman docs.

Heather (31:26):
I was talking to my therapist about this and she was
like, what would you do if youwere hiring people for a rehab?
I'm like, easy.
First of all, make sure thatthey're cool, fun, funky and fresh.
Second of all, I would out loud,say to every single person in an
interview, you cannot fuck the clients.
You cannot have crushes on the clients.
You can't touch them.
You can't be flirty.

Zoe (31:44):
Well, I think we would have a women's rehab.
And only employ women.
Yes.
So that, that cannot happen.

Heather (31:50):
I genuinely think that if you are a woman right now deciding if you wanna
go to rehab, find one that's mostly women.
And like, find one that the clinician,they, the, the counselors are women.
Because it's, here's it's,

Zoe (32:03):
Or just be like very cautious.
It's cautious but's hard to becautious when you're in addiction.

Heather (32:08):
Yes.
That's the thing.

Zoe (32:09):
Or like trying to get sober.
I know.

Heather (32:11):
And that's the thing.
And with him, he's likethis charismatic guy.
So it's like, you, you are dying and youwant someone to save your life and he
saved your life and he's like, so nice.
And then he like, I mean, helike said to my friend that like
to test to see if she's gay.
He should like turn her aroundon this table and fuck her.

(32:31):
Can you imagine?

Zoe (32:32):
No, I can't.
I feel like I just likeshriveled up in a ball and like-

Heather (32:35):
I know, but this is why, this is why I see the world
so darkly because it's dark.
Okay.

Zoe (32:42):
Don't be too naive folks.

Heather (32:44):
So I think that like, after that, like we were, like,
we were falling in love for sure.
Like very, and I fellin love with everybody.
So like I, we just were falling in love.

Zoe (32:53):
When you guys had sex in rehab, did you tell him to
tell you that he loved you?

Heather (32:58):
That he loved, loved me?
No, because I, I knew he did.
Got it.
Like, I knew that like we-

Zoe (33:02):
Knew something was happening.

Heather (33:04):
And it was such a clear trauma bond.
And it was a nice transition because alsowhen I got to rehab, I was as big as a
house and I like, hated my body, hated whoI was, but he had never known me before.
So he didn't know.
He just like thought that's who I was.
And so like having sex with him,I was like, well, first of all,
I'm not taking my clothes off.
But I was also like, helikes me, doesn't like-

Zoe (33:26):
You aren't taking your clothes off and you're as big as a house?

Heather (33:29):
I was as big as a house and I, I had-

Zoe (33:31):
I hate that expression.
I feel like you're husband.
I'm like, I don't want youto say that you're fat.

Heather (33:36):
Well, now I don't think I'm fat.
Now I think I'm hot as shit.

Zoe (33:38):
I'm hot as shit.

Heather (33:40):
But I was also very sick back then.

Zoe (33:41):
You were sick back then.
You weren't caring aboutyourself so obviously your
body wasn't gonna reflect that.

Heather (33:47):
No, no, no, no, no.

Zoe (33:47):
Yeah, so that's our rehab boyfriends.

Heather (33:49):
So that's our rehab boyfriends.
Retrospect do you think weshould be dating in rehab?

Zoe (33:52):
I think retrospect, no.
We should not be dating in rehab, butin that moment we're addicts, so you
can't tell us not to do something.
You know, we need tofigure it out on our own.

Heather (34:07):
You're taking something away from us, like you took
our alcohol or our drugs.
We can't have that.
We're literally trying to figureout how to survive without it.

Zoe (34:15):
I think if I were to go back to rehab now, I would go to an all women's.

Heather (34:21):
I'd have to.

Zoe (34:22):
I'd have to.
But in that moment you think it's fun.
You think it's fine.
I'm glad that I didn'tlike put too much into him.
Even when we got out of rehab,I wasn't solely dating him.
I was talking to my ex from Sarnia still.
I was talking to a coupleother guys from the city.

(34:42):
Like I wasn't, 'cause he neverasked me to be his girlfriend.
Okay.
So I wasn't gonna close myself off.

Heather (34:48):
Oh.
I was a girlfriend.
I fully was.

Zoe (34:51):
I think he thought of me as a girlfriend, but he never asked me.
So I was like, okay, I'mstill gonna do my own thing.

Heather (34:56):
I, I didn't want to date anybody else.
I like, wanted to be with him.
Like when we left, I mean, for thepast like two years, or at least a
year and a half, I've been like Iwanted to be with that person and like
marry that person and like, whatever.
But now I, I also know my pattern.
I do stuff like that.
I'd like to make bigimpacts in relationships.
I need people to need me.
And then I'm like, I don't know.

(35:17):
What a switch.

Zoe (35:18):
Because last year when we were friends, you were
like, oh, I want him so bad.
I want to marry him.
And now you're like so fine without him.
And it just shows the progression.
Like even though we're sober, we still arelearning so many things and we're still
growing every six months I say, like, Ilook back on my life and I'm like, oh my

(35:39):
God, why was I doing that six months ago?
Like, that's not whatI would be doing now.

Heather (35:43):
No.
Okay.
So outside of rehab, when you weregoing on first dates well, what
were you looking for actually?
Were you, when you're dating afterrehab, are you looking for sex?
Are you looking for intimacy?
Are you looking for boyfriends,what are you looking for?

Zoe (35:58):
I think I was looking for sex mostly.
I like just wanted to meet people.
There was a couple guys, like I said, Ihooked up with him after getting sober.
The guys that I fucked before sobriety,I fucked him again after, just to
see how it was one of the guys, hisbreath smelled disgusting by the way.

Heather (36:22):
Oh no.

Zoe (36:22):
I was like, oh my God.
Is this what I was kissing thewhole two years of our relationship?

Heather (36:26):
Halitosis.

Zoe (36:28):
Like he might have had a problem, honestly.

Heather (36:30):
Halitosis.
Or was he, was he drinking and smoking?

Zoe (36:33):
I don't think he was drinking or smoking on that date.

Heather (36:37):
That the chronic bad bread.

Zoe (36:39):
We ate tacos, but like tacos won't make your breast smell like that, babe.

Heather (36:43):
Tacos don't betray you like that.
Dang.

Zoe (36:45):
I know.
That's like one of the mostinteresting things I did.
I found out in my research.

Heather (36:53):
In your research.
I like it.

Zoe (36:54):
One of the guys was a horrible kisser, but I think he was horrible
because he was really drunk, soI think he was just like putting
his like mouth all over me.

Heather (37:02):
After you got outta rehab, you're dating people and you're not
caring whether they're drinking or not?

Zoe (37:07):
At first I was more cautious about it.
But after I made out withsomeone who was drinking, I was
like, oh, okay, that's fine.
I can do this.

Heather (37:13):
Well, let's talk about that because I texted you when I
went on a date early on and I waslike, what do you like, have you
kissed anyone that's been drinking?
Like, I don't know if that's a trigger.
'cause I haven't done that yet.
What would you say to that?

Zoe (37:27):
I would say like, it is good to be cautious about it because certain
alcohol stays on people's mouths longer.
There's definitely been a couple timeswhere I taste it more, but it's not in
the way of like I want it, you know?
It's more like, oh, that's gross.

Heather (37:45):
Me too.

Zoe (37:46):
Especially when guys smoke weed.
Their saliva is so disgusting.
And dry.
And dry and I'm like, disgusting.

Heather (37:55):
I don't, I don't like it if you're not smoking weed, like, 'cause
someone came over to my house and theywere like, can I smoke some weed i's
for sure if you're not smoking weed.
And they are, it's not good.

Zoe (38:02):
It's not good.
And this guy who has smoked a lotof weed and we were hooking up for
a bit, he would like spit in mymouth and I'd be like, disgusting.

Heather (38:10):
The spit in the mouth thing is I can't do it.

Zoe (38:13):
Oh, you can't do it, period.
No, I, I like a spit in the mouth.
If you're not, if you're not smokingweed or drinking, like if, if you're a
clean if you're a clean boy and you spitin my mouth, I'm gonna love it so much.

Heather (38:27):
I'm sweating.
I hate it.

Zoe (38:29):
Do you think you'd like it if they, they spat on your face, not in your mouth?

Heather (38:32):
No.
I don't want you to spit on my face.
Also my face, like that's really specific.
My skin.
You don't touch my face.
But no, definitely won't spit on my face.
After going to rehab, do you feellike your standards got higher or
clearer, or did they change in a way?

Zoe (38:50):
I think like progressively into my sobriety, they changed
and got higher for sure.
I think for a while though, I didn'twant a relationship of any kind.
Like definitely in that first year, yearand a half, maybe I didn't, I wasn't
looking for a relationship at all.
And so I didn't really care about theguys that I was sleeping, like you

(39:13):
didn't have to have high standards.
Like if you were.
If we vibed, if we were havingfun, we were gonna probably hook
up and it was gonna be a fun time.
Like I was on the app Feeld for avery long time, which is an app just
to have sex and just like exploresexual fantasies and figure out
what type of sex that you liked.
Really.

Heather (39:32):
I went on that app for like five seconds and I saw
one weird penis and I ran away.

Zoe (39:36):
There's a lot of penises on that app, but if like you are looking to
just like explore your sexuality-

Heather (39:41):
I wasn't at that point.
No.

Zoe (39:42):
then it's a great app.

Heather (39:44):
Totally.

Zoe (39:45):
I really totally, I, I thrived on Feelds.
I've spent probably a yearon that app, to be honest.

Heather (39:50):
While sober.

Zoe (39:51):
While sober.

Heather (39:52):
I am, I was definitely looking for love.
I'm, I'm not now.
But I really was, and I think like,getting out of rehab, I was like,
okay, I'm not drinking, so I haveto like find something to hold onto.
And like subconsciously, consciously,whatever, like of course I like
started doing Pilates every day.
I like was just random things.

(40:12):
I was like keeping a very tight sched.
And so then going on dates,I was definitely like looking
for someone to save me.
Always.
That is true.
That feels real.
After I got outta rehab that I waslike, okay, like I'm an addict.
That's what I am.
I'm a piece of shit.
So I hope that someone will becool with me and I'll shapeshift
I'll do whatever you need me tobe because I'm a piece of shit.

(40:35):
So like, I'll show up how you needand that's like what I was doing for
a while with men and it wasn't workingand I was sitting with my therapist
just crying and crying, being like,every time I like go on a date with
somebody and then I don't have sex onthe first date, if I have sex on the
second date then they, they text me.
They'll text me the next morning.
And that happened like three timeswhere they texted me the next

(40:56):
morning being like, Hey, really fun.
I'm not looking for anything serious.
And I'm like, why did you fuck me?
Like, and at that point that suckedbecause I was like, this is what
was happening to me in my addiction.
And that made more sense because Iwas like, well, yeah, I'm an addict.
And I like, shit, whatever.
Now I'm sober and like, I wasin that place where I was like,
everything is supposed to be better.

(41:18):
So like, I'm gonna be one of thosestories that like, I got outta
rehab and the first person I wenton a date with we're in love.
Like, it was just serendipitous.

Zoe (41:26):
That sounds so boring to me though.

Heather (41:28):
Yeah, it does.
But I just, I didn't know anything else.
I was like, I'm a dancer, I'm anaddict, and now I'm sober, and-

Zoe (41:36):
So where's my love?

Heather (41:37):
And and that's what I, I didn't, I just figured that that's what I needed.
And then that wasn't working, soI was like, oh, I'm not worthy
and now I'm sober and I'm a loser.
And so that was a hard year.
But also, I feel, I wannaknow if you are like this.
I was disclosing, I stilldisclose my sobriety.
All the time.

(41:57):
Like with friends and men.
Like always,

Zoe (41:59):
I never had it on my hinge or my Feeld that I was sober.
But before I would go on a datewith anybody, I'd be like, oh,
by the way, like I'm sober.
Or if they suggested goingto a bar, I'd be like, oh, I
don't drink, but I love a Coke.
Like when we were just liketalking for like the first few
conversations, I wouldn't bring itup until the date was being planned.

(42:20):
I would say, yeah, I'm sober.

Heather (42:22):
Did anyone ever say nevermind?

Zoe (42:25):
I don't think so.
I wanna say there was one.
I think that there wasone, but not memorable.
I wasn't like butt hurt about it.

Heather (42:38):
There may have been-

Zoe (42:39):
But there was a couple that I didn't disclose that information
to until we were on the date.

Heather (42:43):
And how'd that go?

Zoe (42:45):
It was fine.
Okay.
The one was like, oh, I'm not sober.
And clearly he was not.
He was an alcoholic.

Heather (42:53):
And that person really didn't care whether you were sober
or not, they were gonna drink.

Zoe (42:58):
I feel like the men who bring over booze to my house, you're clear drunk.
If you're bringing over boozeto a sober woman's house, you're
drunk and you're an asshole.

Heather (43:09):
It's crazy.
It's so beyond crazy that it'slike, that makes sense to me.
Like you're an addict andyou're like, listen, I'm just
gonna take care of myself.
And then I'll make you happy andthen don't talk about what I'm doing.
Because it's happening regardless.

Zoe (43:23):
And I never like told them it was like wrong or something.
I, I just let them do it I think.
'cause like, I wanted to just bean example of what they could be.
Like they always say like, youcan't make someone be sober, but
you can be an example for someonewho like, wants to be sober.
So I was like, Hey, like I'm doing mybest here because I'm staying sober.
And I'm letting thisaddict see me be sober.

(43:45):
Maybe he wants, would wannabe sober eventually because
he sees that it's possible.

Heather (43:50):
You're like, I'm sober now and my duty is to fuck all the
alcoholics and show them how goodlife can be on the other side.

Zoe (43:56):
And I did that for a while.

Heather (43:58):
Look, she's a saint.
I disclose my sobriety to everybody.
It's on all of my dating apps.

Zoe (44:03):
I think that it is a good idea to do.
Especially when you're like first.

Heather (44:09):
Also when you're-

Zoe (44:11):
When you're newly sober, like it is better to disclose it.
I think I got a little bit toococky and confident about it and
I was like, oh, I don't need to.
And also I just wanted to seelike how they would react in
real time to me, telling them,

Heather (44:23):
I think I didn't want that.
I like being sober first because peoplewill notice it or they won't notice it.
Like, I have people on my hinge beinglike, are you more of an espresso
martini girl or an Aperol spritz?
And I'm like, the first thingunder my photo baby is sober.
So you didn't scroll past the verse.
And then that's nice.
'cause then I know,
Now I've gone the opposite.
Now my standards before I,I was waiting to be chosen.

(44:45):
. My whole life I've beenwaiting to be chosen.
It was Paige DeSorbo who brought thatup to me, who was like, her therapist
was saying, do you ever choose or areyou just waiting to be chosen by a man?
I'm like, fuck me.
That's what I'm doing.
That's what I've been doing my whole life.
Which it's hard to be like,well now I'm gonna choose.
'cause someone has to likeyou for you to choose now.

Zoe (45:03):
That's the thing, right?
That's literally the thing.
I think the past like two and a halfyears, two, like I haven't been trying
to be someone that I'm not, I haven't.
I've been myself this whole time.
And yeah, some guys likeit, some guys don't.
And the guys that don't, I really don'tcare because they're not my person.
Just like being yourself and likeweaning the ones that aren't yours

(45:27):
will like come to the one that is

Heather (45:30):
Well, and that's my problem, like right now, is that
like I. I'm such a misandrist,and I'll just be like, I hate men.
Kill them all.
I don't actually feel that the onesthat are listening love you, but
the other ones, the ones that I'mdating, but like I will be like, oh,
I'm a strong feminist, independent.
I don't need no man.
I'm gonna go out to have fun,maybe have sex, I'm not sure.

(45:50):
And then we'll get there and I'llbe like, he's fine, whatever.
And then he'll kiss me regardlessof how shit, or good, or how much
he's drinking, he'll kiss me andthen I'm like, are you the one?
And then I'm like, and then I switch.
And then I'm like, oh, I was confidentbefore, but now that you've kissed
me, now I need you to still like me.
And then I'm waiting, waiting,waiting for you to text me back.
And it's horrible.

Zoe (46:10):
I think this, that will just dissipate in going
on more dates, you know?

Heather (46:16):
I think so too.

Zoe (46:18):
Well now I think that I would go on a first date with a new guy,
like once a month at least, you know?
For two years.
So like, there's lots of researchthat has been done and on my part.

Heather (46:28):
I love when you, when you refer to your dating as
research, it's my favorite thing.
She's a scientist.
Women in stem.

Zoe (46:34):
Women in stem, you know.
Sus them out.

Heather (46:42):
So let's get into sex sober sex and intimacy.
So, I don't know, I feel likewe're gonna be different on this,
but was sober sex scary for you?

Zoe (46:50):
It was definitely the first few times, yes.
Like that, the first time I hadsex with my rehab boyfriend,
I was definitely scared.
I was definitely in my head about it.

Heather (46:59):
What were you scared of?
Or what were you in your head about?

Zoe (47:03):
That it wasn't gonna be good, I guess.
I was scared that it wasn't gonna be good.
I was scared that he wouldn'tlike it, that I wouldn't like it.

Heather (47:11):
Huh.

Zoe (47:11):
And honestly, like I didn't for a while until like, I found
like better guys I had sex with.

Heather (47:18):
I feel like I'm learning so much from you all the time, but I also just
realized that, like you just said, likeI was worried that he wouldn't like it.
I was worried that I wouldn't like it.
I've never worried thatI was not gonna like it.
Because if I'm, that's a problem.

Zoe (47:32):
If you're gonna have sex, you wanna like it.

Heather (47:34):
I've always, when I have sex, I'm only thinking about the other person.
I'm only thinking about theirpleasure and like, I could be nothing.
Like, I literally amjust like a fuck hole.
I swear to God.
Like I, I don't care aboutmy, I do care about my own
pleasure, but I really am like-

Zoe (47:49):
It's not your first priority.

Heather (47:50):
No.

Zoe (47:50):
And it should be.

Heather (47:51):
That's, that's bad.
But I feel like when you saidthat, I'm like, oh I never
think like, well, I like it.
I'm like, I don't care.
It's fine.

Zoe (47:59):
I think I was also scared.
Of the act of it and likewhat it was gonna be like.

Heather (48:05):
I was just scared of my body.
I was just so, I've alwaysbeen, I've hate being naked.
Not now.
I love it.
But I used to hate it likemy whole life, I was just so
much body shame all the time.
Like vagina shame.
And then, and then when my body wasn'tperfect, I was like, this is bad.
And then when I was in rehab like that, Iremember I hooked up with this guy after

(48:26):
I got sober and I was not looking great.
I was fine.
I thought I was cute.
And then he said something, hewas like, he like stopped and then
he was like, I love your body.
And I was like, oh my God.
First of all, ew.
Second of all, I feellike you just said that-

Zoe (48:41):
because you needed to?

Heather (48:43):
It felt, and maybe that's not true.

Zoe (48:45):
Felt fake?

Heather (48:46):
Yeah but he also then texted me the next day and
was like, I'm not interested.
So I'm like, yeah, youdidn't like my body.

Zoe (48:50):
I feel like guys didn't text me saying that they're not interested.
They just ghosted me.

Heather (48:55):
Something about old Heather.
Everyone needs to tell mehow they're feeling about me.

Zoe (48:59):
Honestly I would rather you probably ghost me than to tell me.
I think.

Heather (49:03):
I think that too sometimes 'cause I'm like, why?

Zoe (49:06):
I think only one guy texted me and told me like that
he didn't want anything more.

Heather (49:11):
Mind you, we make it really hard for men because if they ghost
us, we're like, you fucking puss.
And then if you text me-

Zoe (49:15):
I know.
We don't know what we want guys.

Heather (49:17):
No, I think, well, I want you to like me and I want
you to not like anybody else.

Zoe (49:20):
Exactly.
That's what.

Heather (49:22):
And if you're gonna end things with me, be like,
listen, you're just too gorgeous.

Zoe (49:26):
You're too gorgeous for me.
You're too put together.
You're too independent.
You're too, and that's usually what it is.
I think they're just scaredthat we are so independent.
We are sober.
That scares a lot of guys out.

Heather (49:39):
I think it does it.

Zoe (49:40):
It does.
Because they think that theycan like control women and
get them drunk, you know?
And keep them-

Heather (49:47):
The easiest first date would be to like, go to
a bar, get drunk and have sex.

Zoe (49:50):
Exactly.
And so you need to like thinkabout another date to do with us.
You know, you need tothink a little bit more.

Heather (49:56):
I know.
Is there anything you need whileyou're having sex that you're like,
yeah, this is, this is what I neednow because I'm sober, or has there
been anything, or even dating.

Zoe (50:05):
I wanna kind of say like, when I would sleep with men on the first
date, it would be because I knew thatI didn't actually like them and I just
wanted to have sex with them and Iwanted them to be like a side piece.
When I didn't have sex with themon the first date, I did like them.

Heather (50:23):
Interesting.
Okay.
So are you like a boy where it's like, ifI fuck you on the first date, you're gonna
be like, ah, she's, I've conquered her.

Zoe (50:30):
I think so.

Heather (50:31):
Oh, shit.

Zoe (50:34):
I know.

Heather (50:35):
I, I really, I've asked like a few men that question.
Like, 'cause I just like genuinely wannaknow like, is it true, is it like a
biological truth that like when you fuck awoman on the first date, is she no longer?

Zoe (50:47):
That's interesting because that's definitely like what
I kind of did subconsciously.
Like for example, that guy thatwas an alcoholic, like I knew
nothing was gonna go further withhim, so I just used him for sex.
And that is exactly what guys do.

Heather (51:02):
It hurts my feelings.

Zoe (51:04):
I'm so sorry to all the guys out there that I've hurt.

Heather (51:07):
I think they probably are Okay.

Zoe (51:08):
I think they're fine.

Heather (51:09):
I think they're fine.
Watch people are gonna be like,please Zoe come back to me.

Zoe (51:14):
I don't think I need something necessarily now that I'm sober.
I think that in my relationshipnow, like the counication is great.

Heather (51:24):
Well, that counication is going to be good because he's also in AA.
Like is he in therapy?

Zoe (51:29):
He's in therapy, he's getting a sponsor now.
Like I think this relationship isgonna be so good and so healthy.

Heather (51:36):
I know.

Zoe (51:37):
Like I am just so excited for this.
I'm really happy.

Heather (51:41):
How's your heart feeling?
Are you feeling feelings of flutter?

Zoe (51:44):
I am, definitely.
I feel like I got closer with himthis weekend and I told him that.
I was like, I feel closer to you nowthat we spent all this time together.
I met like your family.
You met mine.
Like I feel-

Heather (51:57):
Does your family like him?

Zoe (51:58):
Yeah.

Heather (51:58):
Do you like his family?

Zoe (52:00):
Yeah.

Heather (52:01):
Oh, that's so nice.
Did he fuck the shit outta you?

Zoe (52:04):
What?!

Heather (52:05):
Well, we're on, we're on sex and intimacy.
Did he fuck the shit outta you?

Zoe (52:08):
He fucked the shit outta me.
Yeah, he did.

Heather (52:10):
That's really nice.

Zoe (52:12):
Yeah, he is really sweet.

Heather (52:14):
I, I'm really happy for you.
No, I really am.
It's very exciting.
I feel like the way that I am sexuallyand like intimately is not very different
than what I was when I was drinking.
It's just a little more chill.
Like I, I was doing everything in mypower to be like, you know, a shell of

(52:36):
myself when I was drinking and then likehoping men would fall in love with me.
Now, like things have shifted.
Like, I'm like, okay.
Like I know now that I-

Zoe (52:47):
Did you recognize that that's what you were doing when you were drinking?
Like is it revolutionary that now you'reknowing what you're doing at least
?Heather: No, because I've always wanted to be loved.
And like, drinking just exacerbated that.
Like, it just really highlighted thefact that like, I'm super fucking lonely.
And that's also why not drinking is greatbecause it doesn't like flood your head

(53:09):
with like, oh, you're lonely and let'sjust amp up that feeling and make you-
Well, because alcohol is a depressant.

Heather (53:14):
So it's, I can't, like when I am, when I'm drinking, I
could not be more fucking lonely.
But I do, I think my priorities haveshifted in sex in that now this is, but
this, I don't think this is a sober thing.
I think this is a meeting you thing,like, it might be both because-

Zoe (53:29):
I think I rub off on people.

Heather (53:30):
But it's good because I, I don't focus on my own pleasure.
I don't focus on myself.
I feel myself dissociatingand leaving when I'm on dates.

Zoe (53:40):
When you're having sex?

Heather (53:41):
When I'm having sex, when I'm on dates, just like talking to
people, I'm like, oh, she's leaving.
And like whoever is perfectfor him is coming in.

Zoe (53:48):
I have a problem with, I never pay attention when a man is talking to me.
Like I actively have to choose to belike, fuck, I need to listen to what
this man is saying because whenevera man is speaking to me, I shut off
'cause I'm like, I don't actually carewhat you're gonna say to me right now.

Heather (54:04):
Listen, it's a decibel that just doesn't, you know,
enter our brains easily.

Zoe (54:08):
It's like, where's my girly talk?

Heather (54:10):
Are you talking about me right now?
Or are you talking about Moto C class?

Zoe (54:14):
No, but like, I think I catch myself being like, fuck, I actually
have to active listen to my boyfriendright now because he's talking to
me and I care about him and I can'tshut my brain off when he is talking.
Like I'm used to, like, when Iwas going on dates with these guys
that I actually didn't really careabout and I was just using them
for sex, I would shut my brain off.

(54:35):
And just agree with them or whatever.
Different.

Heather (54:40):
I still do that.
But they just talk so much.
You know?

Zoe (54:45):
They do talk so much.

Heather (54:46):
It's like if you're, if you're gonna talk so much, eventually
I'm gonna have to shut my brain down.

Zoe (54:50):
I do like when they ask me, just ask questions about me so I can just
talk about myself the whole night.

Heather (54:54):
Well, I like it when they ask questions about me or I like
when they tell me about their trauma.
Then I'm like I'll sit back.

Zoe (55:01):
There was a phase where in my life of dating, of my research
that I was drawing all of the guyswith alcoholic dead fathers, and I
loved talking about their trauma.

Heather (55:12):
You still do that?
Isn't that one that tried to kill you?
Is it his dad dead?

Zoe (55:16):
Yeah, but that was in the past.
That's not now.

Heather (55:19):
Okay.
Still.
But that was like two months ago.

Zoe (55:21):
That was true.

Heather (55:26):
Since we've talked about sex and we've been
alluding to it the whole episode.
. Let's talk about the weirdthing that me and Zoe are doing.

Zoe (55:33):
Okay.
So I pimped Heather out guys.

Heather (55:37):
Yeah, it's very exciting.
So tell me how you met this person.

Zoe (55:40):
So I met.
Okay, we'll call him the married guy.
Yeah, because we already talkedabout him on the TikTok that we did.
So I met the married guy maybethree, three and a half years ago.
Because I met him before sobriety.
I met him through Hinge.
His Hinge profile was a joint accountwith his girlfriend at the time.

Heather (56:01):
Oh really?
Okay.
So it was like a, okay, interesting.

Zoe (56:05):
It was both of them on the hinge, so I was so drunk messaging.
I didn't know if it was him.
I didn't know if it was her.
I didn't know if it was them together.
When I met up with him, I didn'tknow if it was gonna be the both
of them or her or him individually.

Heather (56:19):
Oh my God.
So scary.

Zoe (56:20):
I had no idea because I was so drunk I didn't really care.
So we hooked up a few times.
And then I went to rehab andI didn't have my phone and I
didn't have his number anymore.
But the few times that we hooked upbefore going into rehab, it was fun.
It was flirty.
I thought that he knew thatI was an absolute drunk.

(56:41):
There was one time that we hooked up andI still had the hospital tape all over
my body and I was like ripping it offwhile we were having sex, so I don't-

Heather (56:51):
Oh God.

Zoe (56:52):
I don't know 'cause after, after I went to rehab, after he messaged me
and then he came to the city and wemet up sober, I told him like all about
this and he was like, oh, I never knewyou were that bad of an alcoholic.
I was like, how did you not know?
I was ripping the hospital tape off ofmy body while we were having sex, but it

(57:13):
just shows that men really focus in onwhat they want and what he wanted was sex.
Which makes sense.
Anyways-

Heather (57:21):
But it's weird.
It, it's really weird.

Zoe (57:23):
Really weird.

Heather (57:23):
It's such a weird point to bring up that like, there are so many
men that like, well, I mean that one.
I, I told him I was going to rehab orwent to rehab and he was like, why?
Like, are you fucking kidding me?
I used to be so fucked up in your house.
Like, what are you talking about?
But-

Zoe (57:38):
I think they do just either choose not to see it or they don't care.
So it's not registering in their brainbecause all they want to do is have sex.

Heather (57:46):
Well, you were obviously still like, fun enough and like coherent enough
to be like having good sex with him.

Zoe (57:52):
Yeah, that's true.
I was, I was still performing.
So I wasn't that haered.

Heather (57:57):
Well, you're a star.

Zoe (57:58):
Thanks.
Thanks so much.
I really appreciate that.
So after rehab, maybe a couplemonths later, he messages me and I
totally kind of forgot about him.
And I was like, yeah, like if youwanna hang out, I'm in Toronto now.
Let me know if you're ever in the city.
And then probably that next week,he just made it down to the city.
And.

(58:18):
I didn't even recognize him whenI saw him outside of my building.
I was like, oh my God,he's actually really cute.
Like I didn't even remember ifhe was gonna be cute or not.
He has a partner.
And so I was dating him on the side.
I always knew what it was gonna be.

(58:38):
And I was never gonna be like the mainone, which I was totally fine with.

Heather (58:43):
It's kind of a vibe.

Zoe (58:44):
It's kind of a vibe.
I see him once a month, whatever.
We have dinners, we go to othership, we have our date night
and then we fuck all night.
And that lasted for a while.
There was a probably a six month periodthat I got really upset with him because
he kept bailing on me because of his kid.
And like, I kind of-

Heather (59:02):
The bailing is a problem.

Zoe (59:03):
I kind of got sick of it and I was like, oh, I don't need him anymore.
I was seeing that guy who smokeda lot of weed at that moment.
So I was like, oh, I can just, I'm justgonna see this guy, the guy who smoked
a lot of weed was also a fabulous fuck.

Heather (59:16):
See, wait.
That's what I want.
Like if somebody, like,if he bails on me, I need-

Zoe (59:22):
Someone else?

Heather (59:23):
No.
I need- Yes.
But I also need that tobe like, that's fine.
Like, I don't wanna be upset by that.

Zoe (59:30):
So I ended up getting really upset because it happened more
than once in a right, in a time.
So I got upset and I ghostedhim for maybe six months.
And then when he messaged me afterI started dating my boyfriend I told
him I can't see him anymore and,I can introduce him to Heather.
And he was like, great, I'm so excited.

(59:51):
'Cause prior to that, I hadtalked to the married man about
potentially having a threesome withHeather just to spice things up.
But since I can't happen-

Heather (01:00:01):
'Cause you talked about it.

Zoe (01:00:01):
We talked about it.
But then that can't happenbecause I have a lovely boyfriend.
So I gave Heather a numberand I pimped her out.

Heather (01:00:13):
Which I promptly texted.

Zoe (01:00:15):
Which I made sure she promptly texted by the way as well.
And then you can go take it from here.

Heather (01:00:21):
That was a very exciting, like even talking about you
transferring him over to me waslike such a funny, cool progressive-

Zoe (01:00:32):
Because you also have known about him because I've talked
about him for the past, howeverlong that we've been friends.

Heather (01:00:38):
And I also think that open relationships are so cool.
Like I-

Zoe (01:00:42):
he is in an open relationship.
He's been in an open relationship.
There, he talks so highly of hispartner, which is super cool.
It's so nice, like she seems super cool.
That kind of made me realize that openrelationships are possible and can happen.
And that got me really interested in it.

Heather (01:01:03):
And so we started texting like, he was like, good for you for texting me.
I'm like, yeah, no, I'm really cool.
But, and Zoe was like, you haveto be cool about this, Heather.

Zoe (01:01:12):
Like, don't mess this up for us.

Heather (01:01:13):
I am cool.
I am cool.

Zoe (01:01:17):
I just, I was scared that you were gonna like fall in love with him.

Heather (01:01:20):
Oh because I fall in love with everyone's.
But is, we did talkabout that, by the way.
Okay, so then on Thursday I met themarried guy, he came to my house.
We went to dinner and we had a lot ofsex and it was, I'm so embarrassed.

Zoe (01:01:35):
She had the time of her life.

Heather (01:01:36):
It was so good.
Well, first of all, he cameover to my house and then took a
shower, which was like a littlebit like, ah, there's a naked man.

Zoe (01:01:42):
But he wanted to be like, he wanted to smell-

Heather (01:01:44):
No, that was fine.

Zoe (01:01:44):
So I always made fun of him because like he sprays so much perfume on himself.
Did you think it was too much?

Heather (01:01:50):
No.
I like it.
I like that scent.
I like a scent.
I like a clean man.
It was just like funny because there waslike a naked man in my shower and I was
like sitting on my bed, just like waiting.
I've never met this person before.
And he is like fully in my shower naked.
I was so, like, I was so nervous.
I texted you and I waslike naked in the shower.

Zoe (01:02:08):
I was like, what's an update?
I need an update right now.

Heather (01:02:10):
And then, and then honestly, so fucking chill.
Like he came outta theshower in his little towel.
Which he left here, by the way.
He brought his own towel.
Adorable.

Zoe (01:02:19):
He brought his own towel.
How cute.

Heather (01:02:21):
I know.
I was like, I have towels.
He's like, I don't know.
I didn't know what you would have.
I'm like, I'm 30.
I have things in my home.
Like, right.
He's so prepared.
And he just sat on my bed and wewere chatting and I was like, okay, I
have to ask you a thousand questionsabout your open relationship.
And he was so generous and so spokeso highly of his partner and told

(01:02:42):
me kind of everything and like howit works and counication and I asked
rules, I'm like, are there rules?
Can I, do you text me?
Do I text you?
Are I allowed?
Like because I don't know what'sappropriate because he's like,
yeah, just respect my wife and kid.
And like, and I'm like, I mean, duh.
I feel like I'm pretty fucking respectful.
Like, I don't know whatI'm gonna do, but like-

Zoe (01:03:01):
Well he's definitely like been with some crazy girls on the side, like so,

Heather (01:03:04):
But I think that being a man who's married who has a kid, first
of all, I love married men because itshows me that they have commitment.
Even though married men love me.
But like, it shows a coitment.
It shows like you're strong, youcan like breed, and I think that-

Zoe (01:03:21):
You can breed.
I'm dead.

Heather (01:03:23):
Well, I, but I think that like in my, my body feels that like it sees
and so it's like, that's a strong one.
We'll get that one.
And so like, I, I asked himsomething, I'm like, okay, because
you can't fall in love with me.
Or I just said it andhe's like, well, I might.
And I was like, what?
And he's like, I don't know,like, you're pretty cute.
And I was like, okay,first of all, shut up.

(01:03:43):
Like, but he was like, you know,if that did happen it would just
like lead to another conversation.
I'm like, okay.
So this whole thing is just liketrial and error and like, cool.

Zoe (01:03:54):
Just as long as the communication is good, I think
that that's what solely matters.

Heather (01:04:00):
It, it seems so wild to me that they're able to do this.
But it's very clear to methat like he's very in love.
He very much loves that part of his life.
And then this is just extra,

Zoe (01:04:11):
It's just separate.
Like me and you are dating andthen you have your partner.

Heather (01:04:17):
Okay.
That's the other thing.
He referred to you as like, I wasdating Zoe for however many years.
Did you feel like you guys were dating?

Zoe (01:04:26):
I thought so.

Heather (01:04:27):
Okay.
Okay.
That's nice.

Zoe (01:04:28):
Like we were dating in a way that like I was dating
other people too, obviously.

Heather (01:04:33):
But you didn't care about him.
You guys likethat's what I like.

Zoe (01:04:38):
It wasn't just sex, like some of the guys that I was hooking up
with over the years, it was just sex.
And we didn't go on dates.
And it was very clear that themen only wanted sex for me.
And that's what I waslike fine with as well.
But with him, I did like goingon dates and knowing about
his life and caring about him.

Heather (01:04:58):
The other thing I don't do dating wise is like I, I think because
I just feel like I'm garbage and I'ma piece of shit, and I'm like, you're
doing me a favor by going out with me.
That's so sad.
But that's honestly, I think how I feel.

Zoe (01:05:11):
And But this is like he's choosing, this is different.

Heather (01:05:14):
This is different.

Zoe (01:05:15):
This man is choosing to care about you because you're not gonna be his
main, but he still wants you in his life.

Heather (01:05:21):
It's cool.

Zoe (01:05:22):
So nice.

Heather (01:05:23):
It's cool to be cared for.
I know where it ends.
I don't know.
It's cool.

Zoe (01:05:28):
You know the boundary.

Heather (01:05:31):
I don't have to future trip,

Zoe (01:05:32):
No.
It's not a possibility.

Heather (01:05:35):
No, it's not.
What if I fall in love withhis wife and I take her?

Zoe (01:05:39):
Honestly, she's hot so-

Heather (01:05:41):
So hot.
She's so hot.
That's, that's the game.
That's a long game.
I'm-

Zoe (01:05:44):
You know what?
She's so hot because she's socool with this, you know, like-

Heather (01:05:48):
that's a person I'd be afraid to meet because they'd be
like, how did you get so cool?

Zoe (01:05:52):
No, I would be afraid to meet her too.
I think I'd be like, I'd bemore nervous in front of her.

Heather (01:05:57):
I'm sorry I'm having sex with your husband.

Zoe (01:05:59):
I'd be like, so do you wanna like ever join like do you hate me?
Like, why didn't you ever ask me?

Heather (01:06:04):
Well does she want to?

Zoe (01:06:05):
I think that they've had a third before.
Like they've had a girlfriend togetherand it got really messy, so I think
they haven't like, done it again.

Heather (01:06:14):
Interesting.
Yeah, I was talking to my therapistabout this whole situation and I, I
really wanna work, and I've talkedto you about this too, I wanna work.
I think this is a good situation for me.

Zoe (01:06:25):
I think so too.

Heather (01:06:26):
Because I, it keeps me from sacrificing my entire life for a man.
It allows me to like bewho I wanna be in this.
And the most important right nowis like to work on my pleasure.
'cause I've been faking orgasmssince I've started having sex.

Zoe (01:06:41):
And you had orgasms with him?

Heather (01:06:43):
Yeah, I did!

Zoe (01:06:44):
No, I think this is exactly what you need.
I'm just excited that like, I just wantall of my friends to be having good sex
like, that's all I want for everybody.
You know?
And he is an amazing guy.
He's so gentle and caring.
Like you don't feel like you'rejust a piece of meat with him.

Heather (01:07:04):
That's the other thing.
Not one hand was aroundmy throat and I liked it.
Usually I'm like, justchoke me, I'll, whatever.
Disassociate.
But I was like, I wannalike be very present.
And it's so nice.
I just am.
I'm happy that I, firstof all, thank you so much.
Thank you so much.

Zoe (01:07:22):
I got you babe.

Heather (01:07:23):
I think this is gonna be good.
I think this is a good time forme to start figuring this out.

Zoe (01:07:27):
And even just like, I think this is your era of just finding
out what you like in the bedroom.
Like I think that youshould like venture off and-

Heather (01:07:36):
of course I will.

Zoe (01:07:37):
Go on more dates and like have different experiences to find out what you
want because you don't even know what youwant because you don't know what you like.
You've been waiting for guys to chooseyou and you need to choose the guy
by being yourself and not faking it.

Heather (01:07:52):
I agree.
And I just like even feel like after thatfirst date, I'm like, that's what I want.
I want like a, and it's easywith him of course, because it's-

Zoe (01:08:00):
Because everything's laid out for you.

Heather (01:08:02):
But that's what I want.
I want chill.
I want fun, I want easy.
I don't wanna feel all thetime like I'm going on dates,
being like, I hope he likes me.
It's like I'm great and maybe he'sgreat and maybe we're not great
together, or maybe we are, but like-

Zoe (01:08:18):
We don't need to force this.

Heather (01:08:19):
No.
So I just, I think like, and I owe itto, I owe it to like addict Heather.
I definitely owe it to soberHeather, to just be like, if
we're gonna get all our ducks in arow, let's get them all in a row.
I feel very grateful.
I feel very excited andoptimistic about my dating future.
And I think that this is gonnaopen up a lot of doors for me.

Zoe (01:08:39):
I think so too and I'm really excited to go on this journey with you.
I feel like I'm likedating through you now.
Which is really exciting and I love that.
And I love, I'm giving my dating advice.

Heather (01:08:52):
Giving your dating advice, giving your literal men.

Zoe (01:08:55):
I'm just handing out my leftover men.

Heather (01:08:59):
Truly.
And in the nicest, kindest way.

Zoe (01:09:01):
In the nicest, kindest way.

Heather (01:09:02):
I don't mind a sloppy second if it's from my best friend.

Zoe (01:09:05):
They're not sloppy at all.

Heather (01:09:07):
Not at all.

Zoe (01:09:08):
Not at all.
Well, I'm proud of you.

Heather (01:09:09):
I'm proud of you.
Woo.
Bye.

Zoe (01:09:12):
Bye

Heather (01:09:13):
Thanks for listening to Girl, Undrunk.
You can follow us on Instagram andTikTok at Girl Undrunk Podcast or send
me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.
Before we go, thank you to our amazingproducer, Ariane Michaud and support
from her team at Consciously Produced.

(01:09:34):
Martin Nunez Bonilla for the graphics.
Ian Sit for setting up our sound,Daniel James for the music and
final edits, and Chelsea Neilanfor the transcript and show notes.
This podcast would notbe possible without you.
Hey

(01:09:56):
listeners,
if you're enjoying Girl, Undrunk,please do us a favor like, subscribe,
and most importantly, share thisepisode with someone you think
might need it or just love it.
Your support means everything and ithelps keep these conversations going.

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