September 18, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of the Gladden Longevity Podcast, Dr. Jeffrey Gladden engages in a deep conversation with Waldemar Franco, exploring themes of adventure, creativity, and the pursuit of longevity. Waldemar shares his journey from childhood experiences in nature to becoming an architect and adventure guide, emphasizing the importance of flow states in both physical activities and life. The discussion also delves into transforming routines into rituals, the significance of listening to one's body, and the balance between work, family, and personal passions. Throughout the conversation, the idea of living consciously and embracing the seasons of life is highlighted as a pathway to fulfillment and well-being.
For Audience
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Takeaways
· Adventure shapes our identity and connection to nature.
· Flow states enhance performance and presence in activities.
· Transforming routine into ritual can bring joy to daily practices.
· Listening to your body is crucial for health and recovery.
· Creativity is essential for exploration and innovation.
· Balancing work and personal life requires conscious effort.
· Life experiences come in cycles and seasons.
· Embracing the journey is more important than the destination.
· Being congruent in life leads to easier balance.
· Mindfulness and awareness are key to living fully.
Chapters
00:00 The Wild Man Journey Begins
06:32 From Adv
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:28):
Welcome everybody to the Gladden Longevity Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Jeffrey Gladden, and we're here to make you an age hacker.
And in addition to answer the big questions in life, how good can we be?
How do we make a hundred and thirty?
How do we live well beyond 120?
How do we live young for a lifetime and how do we develop a 300 year old mind?
(00:49):
And today I'm talking with a wild man, Valdemir Franco from Mexico City and
It's a really interesting conversation with Voldemort.
He is uh an adventurer.
He's a architect.
He's a very conscious individual.
And we have a really interesting conversation about his life, challenges that he'sovercome, flow states that he's gone into, work that he's accomplished.
(01:17):
I think you're going to really enjoy the perspective of this conversation because it tiesinto
a sense of longevity and a sense of sustainability, if you will.
So enjoy this conversation.
I really did.
Welcome everybody to the Gladden Longevity podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Jeffrey Gladden, and I'm joined today by Waldemar Franco.
(01:40):
I think I got that right.
and you know, this is going to be a really interesting conversation.
Waldemar is basically a wild man.
And I, when I saw his bio come across, I'm like, okay.
Well, this is right up my alley.
So it looks like you've been on quite the journey.
Do you want to tell us a little bit about how you got started on this wild man journey?
(02:02):
Yeah, I'd be glad to.
Thank you.
Thank you, Jeffrey.
I guess I started a long time ago when I was young.
I was lucky to, my dad had a home in a Caribbean island near, called Cozumel in thesouthern part of Mexico.
(02:25):
So I went with him a bunch when I was really young and I started
He was a free diver way back there, way back then.
So he taught me how to free dive when I was eight, 10 years old.
And I started spearfishing my little red snappers to cook.
And that kind of put me in this wild, I guess, thought in which I wanted to live a life ofadventure, I guess.
(02:58):
And when I went through high school, through high school, I started into mountain sports,so climbing.
then when I was just starting college, I got into whitewater paddling.
Okay.
Is that in a canoe or a kayak or kayak?
Okay.
(03:19):
Cool.
And I started guiding, guiding different, different groups of people.
Eventually I, I, set up this, a small guiding what, adventure guiding company in Mexicowith a partner and, and started guiding and making some money while I was in college
(03:40):
studying architecture.
Okay.
And what kind of trips are you taking people on?
Well, it was mostly river related trips.
So river exploration, meaning rafting and kayaking, some canoeing, and a lot of hiking andaltitude climbing.
Believe it or not, there's a couple of big volcanoes in Mexico that are good climbingvolcanoes.
(04:05):
So we did a lot of climbing to the volcanoes and just jungle tracks and exploring.
Yeah.
You know, it's really interesting to hear you talk about being 10 years old and your dadteaching you to free dive.
You know, as a kid, I remember being on the lake in Michigan growing up and beingintroduced to the water that way.
(04:28):
But something about being on the water with your dad when you're a kid growing up, there'sjust something super special about that, right?
It's almost a little bit of a
coming of age of manhood and some other things that go on there.
And then probably your dad's sense of adventure was also rubbing off on you to someextent.
And also your direct experience of adventure, you know, being down there, spearfishing,catching dinner, you know, eating dinner, all of that.
(04:57):
just it gives you a connection to the planet and to life that you don't get if you grow upin the city, go into the grocery store every day to get your food.
Right.
So.
I can see that that would really kind of make an impact on you.
oh
I think you put it really well.
I have this really vivid image of us, know, my dad and myself going on a little Zodiacboat, you know, and dropping the anchor and he would go down, I would stay up in the boat
(05:29):
watching him.
would, you know, free dive, come up and give me the fish when I was younger and theneventually start diving with him.
And I had this really vivid idea of that.
that's really cherished, you know?
Right.
It's a that's a that's a sacred memory right there.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
My dad was into fishing.
And so I'd go out with him when I was too little to fish, actually, and then startedfishing and catching fish.
(05:54):
And we did fishing trips and some in Chile and some in Montana and Wyoming and, you know,places like this.
Right.
So, yeah, beautiful, beautiful memories, really that father energy.
Right.
It's really beautiful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
So love of adventure is what I'm hearing kind of all the way through.
And then you kind of expanded on that in your own way.
(06:16):
But there's more to it beyond your college days and your adventure guiding things.
Tell us more about that.
Because it's really kind of expanded into not just activities that you do, but kind of alife philosophy, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah.
So, you know, I started this, guiding company, adventure travel company.
(06:41):
So I did a lot of guiding and then I started architecture.
started, a small rafting lodge.
Mm-hmm.
beside a river and that eventually evolved into a hospitality business focused on smallboutique active hotels in nature.
(07:01):
So I guess my professional career, meaning architecture blended into my passion, which wasadventure.
And that's how I created a company called Roda Vento, which
you know, which is what I've done for the last 35 years is, is, you know, keep on creatingthis concept of, bringing people to closer to nature in a well-designed, beautiful manner,
(07:30):
in small hotels.
So that's, that's been my passion, but you know,
let me ask you this, are you the architect of these hotels or the owner of these hotels orthe purveyor of some sort or how does that work for you?
So I have a lot of hats on.
I am the architect and I am also the shareholder, bigger shareholder and operator.
(07:57):
So I'm kind of doing everything.
Yeah.
There's six.
Okay.
And are they all in Mexico or are they scattered around or?
They're all in Mexico.
Yeah.
They're all in Mexico.
Mexico is such a big, beautiful country that's in some, you know, some areas are veryunexplored and undeveloped.
(08:20):
Others aren't, but, but, yeah, we tend to go to the unexplored areas.
Yeah.
And, so in this journey, mostly as I was guiding, I was always in this trend of
trying to be strong and keep healthy and have big goals, right?
(08:44):
So I was always thinking of climbing a new mountain or doing a big new river descent.
And that took me on this path of working and training really hard and then, you know,trying to accomplish the goal and then going back home and feeling
(09:06):
exhausted and mentally tired and, and then wanting to not do anything for a little while.
then guilt start creeping in and I said, I need another goal.
You know, I got into this cycle that I guess eventually started banging up my body, youknow, and I had a lot of injuries and I was kind of tired and,
(09:34):
Injuries from the adventure activities is what I'm hearing.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
Or the training, was it the training or was it the actual activities?
more, I think it was more the training.
Yeah.
Just training without a clear.
more of a, I guess, deeper meaning of why I was training, not only looking for oraccomplishing a goal.
(10:01):
So...
So, so, so what I'm hearing is that the training and being strong and getting ready andall of that was actually providing some sense of meaning for you.
Is that what you're saying?
Or you were trying to find meaning in it?
Or what did you, what did you mean by that?
By bringing meaning into the conversation.
I guess at that stage, was, it was more about my identity, you know?
(10:30):
I was this guy.
And I just needed to be that, you know?
And then I, you know, I'm 56 now.
When I was 49, I had a water skiing crash.
And I tore my meniscus really badly on my left knee and I had surgery and then thatsurgery didn't, I didn't feel good after, you know, some months and I went through another
(11:00):
surgery.
So all in all, I was out for two years, right?
And during those two years, it was really, it was, I couldn't move much, you know, Icouldn't jog for, for years and that
was a big, like a big hit to who I was, right?
(11:24):
Right.
Right.
Your identity was tied up in your capability to some extent.
Right.
Yeah.
um
so I had to, and then the pandemic came and you know, everybody kind of went, somethinghappened during the pandemic to each one of us.
ah And I started thinking about how to, how to start training differently and, and, uh andlooking at, I guess, looking at, at uh just being healthier from the inside out instead of
(11:55):
just, you know,
going harder and harder, which I had done.
And that's where I started kind of transforming the way I've developed and done my takingcare of myself for the latter years.
And that's how the Find Your Wild Flow book came to be.
(12:20):
Yeah.
So, know, flow and flow state is a very, very cool thing.
I imagine that what you're referring to when you talk about wild flow, could be flow of ariver, or maybe it's a flow state that you're referring to.
it one or the other or both?
Or what are you thinking when you say, find your wild flow?
(12:41):
It's definitely both.
did, you know, the, the, the times where I know I found my flow state on the deepest levelwas when I was paddling difficult rivers, you know, because that's when you really need to
be, yeah, in a total flow state, total focus, nothing around matters.
(13:04):
And you're just, you know, doing what you need to do.
So that's, I remember that fondly.
And I think that when you find this state of flow, it's beautiful.
Totally.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, they talk about flow as being that many people will report flow as being thebest feeling that they ever have.
(13:30):
You know, I read the book, The Rise of Superman, it was written by Steven Kotler when itcame out some years ago.
And in there, he's he's kind of building off the work of a Czechoslovakian psychologist.
I can't pronounce his name.
It's, like
18 letters long with a bunch of C's and Q's in it.
the interesting thing is that people describe flow as being kind of the pinnacleexperience of their life, the state of being in flow.
(13:59):
And for me, I've kind of come to understand flow as kind of like meditation in action,where you're fully, fully present, right?
Like you are in meditation.
And yet you're, and you're not
Even though you're doing something like I get into a flow state when I mountain bike,right?
So you're doing it, but you're also allowing it at the same time.
(14:20):
And you're, you're, you're not really kind of overthinking it.
You're just allowing the computer of your brain to just do the right thing.
And it's, it's like, it's happening.
It's just such a beautiful feeling.
I'm sure it's like that in a kayak.
They talk a lot about whitewater rafting and kayaking and, and things and you know,
skiing, I snowboard as well.
So you can get into a flow state, snowboarding in the trees and things like this.
(14:43):
So we're playing the guitar, playing music or even in conversation, you can get into aflow state.
So but it's a beautiful experience.
So it sounds like you had your most profound flow experiences when you were kayaking downthese challenging rivers.
Typically, it has to be a challenging kind of scenario.
So.
Yeah.
I think that this idea of challenge and even fear and dealing with being afraid ahenhances the flow state or gets you deeper into the flow state so that this fear is not
(15:22):
something that becomes panic or impedes you from performing.
It's just...
Yeah.
talk about it as being a challenge that's at 104%.
So it's, it's a bit beyond, you know, kind of being all in it's a bit beyond that.
So there's enough, say, intensity slash fear activation, but it's not so much that you'reoverwhelmed by it, right?
(15:45):
It's, it's enough to kind of pull you in.
So, Cool.
And I really liked that.
mean, I, I, um, I think that everybody should eventually feel that flow state.
you say, singing or playing music or whatever thing, you know?
(16:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There are many, many, many, many ways to, uh, to go into flow.
And one of the things that we're working to build here at Gladden Longevity beyond what itcurrently is, is, uh, to have a flow team where the team goes into a collective flow
state, right?
Where we create from that place.
this is, this is what we're working on right now.
(16:27):
It's super fun.
Wow, it must be, It must be, for sure.
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit about, you know, you've had some transformations along the way andyou talk about this striving to arrive this flow path, your path of inner strength.
You know, you've turned words like routine into ritual and some things like that.
(16:49):
You want to talk a little bit about some of that?
Yeah.
that, that, uh, idea of turning, turning around routine into ritual was something that Iworked on and it just clicked is that, you know, I've always thought about, I'm not a very
(17:10):
routine oriented person in the first place.
Like I'm, I'm more free flow.
uh, but so when I was
You know, always in my workouts, was thinking about tomorrow.
My routine is whatever, you know, pull-ups and push-ups and sprints or intervals orwhatever.
(17:33):
And it started to become something that had a, like a negative connotation in the sensethat it was always repetitive.
had to be done no matter how I felt.
Mm.
if I, if I was a little bit sad or I was feeling a little sick or whatever, my routine onTuesday is what it is.
(17:56):
And you just go for it.
And, and I think that when I turned it around and named it a ritual for me, a ritual issomething that I wake up to.
wanting to perform, right?
It gives me joy.
It kind of enhances uh me to be better.
So just that different click, it might be the same workout, right?
(18:21):
But it's just a different approach that makes it more about nourishing and growing andbeing better and feeling happier than performing what I need to do.
and I think that tears down a lot of objections of why people stop moving or stop, youknow, trying to keep healthier because they're always thinking that it's, it's a battle,
(18:51):
right?
It's an up uphill climb and, it's exhausting and it's hard.
And I think when you turn it around and start listening to your body, then
you know, things change and you do it with a different mentality.
Yeah, I think that's a wonderful insight.
I think you can start to look at all of that.
(19:13):
It becomes an opportunity instead of an obligation, right?
And it becomes something that you're grateful for as opposed to something that you'reresisting.
You move from kind of resistance into embracing it and enjoying it and again, beingpresent with it as opposed to feeling like it's something to get through so you can get to
the other side.
(19:33):
The joy itself is in the thing itself.
It's not on the other side of the thing, right?
So it's the act of being present, I think.
For me, that's what presence is all about.
It's when you're fully present, it's like there's only this moment.
There's only now.
And so, oh, well, this is a beautiful moment, right?
And so you're just living in the beauty of that moment as they link together.
(19:56):
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, and I think that either, even though most of us have heard what you just said, andwe hear it often, it's about today, it's about the journey, not the destination.
But for example, in training, most people don't enjoy the training.
(20:19):
They're training because they want to...
become or have a six pack or be leaner or be faster or whatever, right?
And I think that when you enjoy every single part of the process, first of all, when youleast think about it, you're there.
(20:43):
Like you've become.
That's right.
And then you enjoy the process, know, you enjoy the path.
I think it's more of a path than a goal.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think this idea of listening to your body is also important.
You know, you were talking about waking up and it's Tuesday.
So on Tuesday, I do this, right?
(21:05):
That's an external prescription.
I think it's better to write the prescription from inside.
Like, what is my recovery score today?
What is how do I feel today?
And then do something, but adapt to something to where your body is now.
It's it's much more nourishing for you to do it that way.
Maybe today's a good recovery day.
Maybe today's the day to do balance training or agility things or whatever.
(21:29):
And then after a good night's rest and you feel like the virus you were fighting off isgone, it's like, now's a good day to do the strength training.
You really do the pull-ups and the push-ups and the sprints or whatever else.
Right.
But kind of adapting the workouts to suit your body, as opposed to trying to adapt yourbody to the workout, I think is a much healthier way to avoid injury and also to make it
(21:51):
fun and enjoyable.
I don't know what your thoughts are about that, but yeah.
I think you couldn't have said it better.
I totally believe in listening to your body.
And it's from experience.
I didn't listen to my body at all.
I just did it.
And after my knee thing and my recovery, after my knee, the muscle in my left thigh wasthe size of my arm.
(22:17):
was this big after two years.
Yeah.
was totally unbalanced, my body hurt and I needed to listen to it, right?
And like you say, think that when you, just on the weekend, went paddling actually, waterpaddling.
(22:39):
I paddled quite a bit, but I think I drank some water of the river and got a stomachinfection.
And, you know, and I was, I was feeling weak and that's not the time to train, you know,it's the time to recover.
It's the time to drink and recover and chill and, and, think.
(23:04):
And when the energy comes back, it's time, it's time to train.
if, if like we're saying before Monday, the recipe is you go out and jog.
Mm-hmm.
then yeah, then you'll eventually drop it.
That's what I feel.
I think so either that or you'll get injured one or the other.
(23:24):
Right.
think an injury, think the tragedy of injury, as you discovered with your, with your kneeinjury, Paul water skiing is an injury is the, know, sets us back so far, right?
We then we have to recover and it's, it's very difficult.
Even, you know, if you're knocked out for.
seven days, eight days, you start to feel it, right?
(23:47):
You can miss a day, right?
You can miss three days, but after that, you know, you start to feel it.
And so that's why avoiding injury and recovering from injury as quickly as possible.
That's why we use a lot of peptides and things like that.
And we're very proactive about an injury.
If we get an injury, like, no, let's heal it now.
Let's heal it as quickly as possible.
Well, let me see how it is three weeks from now, right?
Because we know we're going to be losing ground and then you got the work to kind of getthat back.
(24:11):
So, yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm really keen into listening and I've had a big debate on, on, on, on the, you know, themonitor, the new monitors, you know, the ordering or the whoop or whatever where you're, I
(24:32):
guess it helps you understand your body.
but I think it's, I think it's better or it's as good to learn how to listen to your bodywithout technology and just confirming it with technology instead of, you know, just
(24:56):
looking at your watch and saying, my watch said I didn't, I didn't sleep right.
Mm-hmm.
and then that creates an anxiety and then you don't sleep anyway.
I don't know.
I don't know what, what your thoughts are about that, but.
Well, I think it can be a helpful training tool.
For me, it's like a continuous glucose monitor, right?
It can be helpful.
can coach you.
(25:16):
It's like real time coaching.
And that can be super helpful, particularly if you're not really attuned to how your bodyfeels when your blood sugar go ups or how your body feels when you haven't gotten the
right amount of sleep or you don't really realize, you know, how your heart ratevariability is impacted by flying or things like that.
So it can be a great coach.
(25:37):
to give you more information than you could probably resource on your own.
But after a while, you kind of learn that.
And then I think to your point, you start to listen to your body and that's, there's a lotof wisdom right there.
yeah, that's how I think about it.
Yeah.
You you talk about,
Feeling creative is being alive.
(25:59):
Tell us a little bit about that.
You're obviously a creative guy.
You've started businesses, you're an architect, you're designing hotels, you're buildinghotels, you're operating hotels, and there's a lot of creativity that goes into that.
When did this creative element sort of kick in for you?
Was it from the very beginning or you didn't fully realize it until later or how did thatwork?
(26:24):
I think I always had a lot of ideas, know, from when I was really young.
I think I was the little boy who had a bunch of ideas.
um I've never had an issue with creativity.
I think that the downside of being too creative is that.
(26:45):
out of a hundred ideas that come to mind, maybe two work.
So you have to deal with all the other 98 that didn't, you know, and say, well, it's partof the process of being creative, right?
ah And I think I want to always go back to what really, you know, makes my heart pump is,
(27:11):
being out there and adventure in nature is that I think creativity is a lot likeexploration.
When you go out exploring, be it in the mountains or the forest or whatever, or justexploring in business or whatever other scenario, you have to be creative.
(27:34):
You can't explore without creativity.
That's right.
You have to be there and invent stuff and try stuff and go out there and have ideas andthen get rejected and, know, and go back to rethinking them.
And that, I think that that's a big driver in life.
(27:55):
If, if you stop exploring whatever your scenario is, I think it gets boring, you know?
Yeah, I think, I think for me it does as well.
Um, I tend to explore everything, right?
I always take a learner's mindset to anything that I'm going into.
(28:15):
I think that's really the best mindset.
Um, and I think trying things, I've always learned the best by trying things because I'llfigure it out.
Um, back when I was practicing interventional cardiology, um, people would bring me newtechnologies and tell me what it did.
And I would.
After a while, would say, no, just actually just give it to me.
(28:35):
I'll actually tell you what it does because I knew that I would play with it and I wouldfigure out what it was actually good for.
Right.
And then I would tell him what it was good for.
And many times it was like, oh, really?
It'll do that.
Yeah, this is actually really good for this.
So but it's the idea of of actually playing with it and having confidence in your abilityto figure things out.
(28:56):
Right.
And being an explorer of life, if you will, which is something you talk about.
Um, have you done any personality profiles, that kind of highlight any of this for you?
Like there's things called the culture index or Colby profile or things like that, thatactually highlight people that, um, have kind of more of an adventurous creative, um, you
(29:17):
know, psychology, if you will, or personality.
I haven't, I haven't done, I should, understand them and get to know them.
Yeah, yeah, they're actually fun.
Maybe I'll send you one you can take.
So, yeah, yeah, we do them for all of our clients.
m Culture indexes can be really enlightening for people actually.
(29:39):
So that's kind of So you've learned how to balance uh entrepreneurship, adventure andfamily.
Tell us about that, the balancing of those three.
I think it's about being, I don't know the word in English, congruent?
(30:04):
We're Yeah, we're Yeah.
think that when you're congruent in business and with the way you enjoy your family andinteract with your family and your friends, the issue of having a balance becomes easier
(30:27):
because everything makes sense.
think when those three aspects of
important aspects of life don't talk to each other, are not congruent with each other,then it becomes really difficult to balance them, right?
And give them priorities, prioritize them, say, you know, this, should devote whateverhours or...
(30:55):
When they talk to each other, it's been easier.
Of course, there's some times that you have to...
push hard in work and then your kids start saying, you didn't show up at the soccer gameor whatever, you But I really have made an effort to make all my life be faithful to who I
(31:23):
am.
My work ethic, the way I talk to people, the way I...
I promote my business.
I'm always thinking about me being the guest of my hotels and what I enjoy, right?
What would really bring me joy if I was the guest?
And that's why design.
(31:44):
So then it's easier to talk about your business to your son, right?
And make him understand the whys.
That's right.
Yeah, I think there's...
There's a richness to that idea of being congruent.
It means that you can always show up as yourself.
(32:05):
You never have to kind of put on a hat that doesn't fit you to actually go into anenvironment that you're not really comfortable with, but you're forced to be in, right?
You've created, you've explored enough to find and create the environments that enable youto show up as who you really are, right?
And that's really your own doing.
You've created that.
So there's been a drive for you to want to be congruent.
(32:28):
I would say that's the reason you're congruent and that's the reason you have thebusinesses and the family and, you know, the adventures that you have, seems like.
Yeah, yeah, I've always, I've never seen myself as a salesman who's selling something thathe doesn't believe in, you know?
Sure.
No, same.
Yeah, I mean, you know.
(32:50):
yeah, it's, it's, everybody has their own path of life and their own, their needs.
But, but I, it just, I don't see myself doing that, you know, and that's, that's givingme, given me the ability to, to, for all the aspects of my life to, be in balance, know,
(33:11):
in sync, I would say instead of balance.
It's easy to want to leverage ourselves for the sake of getting something that we think weneed or want, or will make us something or other, right?
Like either an education, a job, a certain amount of money.
People leverage themselves, you know, kind of step outside their comfort zone to kind ofcreate something.
This doesn't mean we can't be uncomfortable doing something that we're committed to.
(33:33):
That's not what I'm saying.
But but doing that to the extent where you kind of are putting your hope.
in finding fulfillment, meaning congruence even in something that is yet to be attained asopposed to living from a congruent place to starting today and then building from that
(33:53):
place, right?
You'll be congruent the whole time rather than kind of this delayed gratification of it'salways, another, you know, X number of dollars, you know, further out there or, you know,
whatever it is, right?
Three more healths.
hotels more and it'll be there, right?
That kind of thing.
You have the idea to be congruent now with one hotel and then that can lead to two hotelsand whatever.
(34:16):
So yeah, I think there's a lot of wisdom in that.
What that does is it really lowers inherent internal strife and stress in your system,which actually slows down the aging process is really what happens and enables you to be
more youthful.
That's what we see.
people that have leveraged themselves like that when they come into the clinic here, wecan measure their nervous system status and we can see how leveraged they are.
(34:39):
And even people that leveraged themselves and then quit a decade ago may still carry theechoes of that leveraging of themselves in their nervous systems to this very day, even
though they don't feel stressed.
We see that they're carrying tons of stress still in their, yeah, in their nervoussystems.
And so then,
teaching them to be able to reprogram that, right?
(35:00):
Because it does accelerate aging for sure.
Yeah, it's very cool.
That's interesting, m
I should go visit you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Come on up.
Sure.
Yeah.
I'd be happy to be happy to do that.
So, well, it sounds like you're ah sounds like you're living an adventurous life.
(35:22):
Sounds like you're living a life that you would like to be living.
That's kind what I'm hearing.
Or is there or is there something I'm missing there?
Are there things that you're you feel like you're missing or where do you stand with that?
No, I think that, I mean, of course we're always looking to...
be better in some aspect of, or maybe a sense of unfulfillment, trying to strive to bebetter, right?
(35:50):
And there's always this debate inside my head in which I'm thinking, should I be devotingmore time to a hobby instead of the work of putting together the investment for a hotel,
you know?
(36:11):
And I think it's always kind of the game of the, I have a friend who calls it the game ofthe sheet, you know, of a bed.
If you pull one way, the end of the bed gets uncovered.
So it's always this game of the sheet, right?
So you have to play that game.
(36:31):
And I think it's about being conscious, you know?
I think it's about...
I don't think nobody, anybody is.
super happy and not, I'm as happy as I can be and there's nothing more that I can do.
I think that's a state that only maybe the Dalai Lama can accomplish, right?
(36:53):
But so I think it's always about being conscious and saying, I know that maybe I'm pullinga little bit this way and that has consequences, but I'm conscious.
So I take care of it, of this other.
part of the bed that's uncovered, you know?
And that's the way I see it.
(37:15):
I'm in a stage now where I'm pulled towards work, maybe a little bit more than I wouldwant to because of a couple of new projects.
And I know it and I know that I have to be conscious and not get, you know, too pulled,too pulled.
(37:37):
away from my center.
There's other times in life where I've been really active in traveling and training orwhatever, but I feel the lack of accomplishing something in work.
So I think it's more about being conscious and being mindful of the different aspects.
(37:59):
Yeah, I think that's right.
I think you can, in the moment, you can prioritize one thing over another, but thepriorities can change as you kind of move along.
and as things get completed or whatever, and add, quite honestly, the priorities canchange from day to day.
Like on a Saturday, your priorities can be completely different than they were on aFriday.
so the flexibility to actually move through those states.
(38:24):
ah in a conscious way can give you balance even though at any particular moment you'rekind of pulling the sheet one a little bit further to this side of the bed, right?
So yeah, yeah, I think that's right.
And I think it's, what I've experienced is in life, are short cycles, like the one youdescribed, maybe the weekend, you're feeling something during the week, there's another
(38:48):
feeling.
And then there's longer cycles in which, you know, there's three, four or five monthswhere you're feeling some, something, and then, and then you, you're feeling more
energized or less energized or.
happier, sad, whatever, but it's these cycles in life that are sometimes, of course youhave to be mindful, but you have to let them, ride them, right?
(39:17):
Instead of fight them.
That's right.
Yeah, sometimes it's just called for.
It's a season of this, right?
I think life does come in seasons.
So yeah, there's no doubt about it.
I think embracing each season and finding the equilibrium in that season, even though theequilibrium may shift a little bit, you're still in equilibrium, right?
Like now I'm going to focus on.
(39:37):
That's right.
That's That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And within that, there are short timeframes also, right?
Where it is, you know, day to day.
So, ah yeah, that gives you flexibility inside the longer timeframe.
But I like the description of season.
It is seasons, yeah.
And I guess the old people, ancient people used to live by the seasons much more than wedo and acknowledge those seasons, right?
(40:05):
That's right.
That's right.
Exactly.
we want to change season from one day to the other.
Mm-hmm.
That's right.
Now that's cool.
Well, you're an interesting guy, Mulder.
You've led a life of introspection, right?
In other words, being aware, keeping tabs on how you're feeling, listening, not only yourbody, but your psyche, being creative, being an explorer, being an adventurer.
(40:31):
And you've done it.
You've done it consciously.
mean, what you're creating, you're doing consciously.
You're aware of what you're doing while you're doing it.
Right.
And so that's a great way to live.
So very cool.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it coming from you.
Oh, yeah, my pleasure.
Yeah, it a pleasure to chat with you.
Thanks so much.
Welcome everybody to the Gladden Longevity Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Jeffrey Gladden, and we're here to make you an age hacker.
And in addition to answer the big questions in life, how good can we be?
How do we make a hundred and thirty?
How do we live well beyond 120?
How do we live young for a lifetime and how do we develop a 300 year old mind?
(00:49):
And today I'm talking with a wild man, Valdemir Franco from Mexico City and
It's a really interesting conversation with Voldemort.
He is uh an adventurer.
He's a architect.
He's a very conscious individual.
And we have a really interesting conversation about his life, challenges that he'sovercome, flow states that he's gone into, work that he's accomplished.
(01:17):
I think you're going to really enjoy the perspective of this conversation because it tiesinto
a sense of longevity and a sense of sustainability, if you will.
So enjoy this conversation.
I really did.
Welcome everybody to the Gladden Longevity podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Jeffrey Gladden, and I'm joined today by Waldemar Franco.
(01:40):
I think I got that right.
and you know, this is going to be a really interesting conversation.
Waldemar is basically a wild man.
And I, when I saw his bio come across, I'm like, okay.
Well, this is right up my alley.
So it looks like you've been on quite the journey.
Do you want to tell us a little bit about how you got started on this wild man journey?
(02:02):
Yeah, I'd be glad to.
Thank you.
Thank you, Jeffrey.
I guess I started a long time ago when I was young.
I was lucky to, my dad had a home in a Caribbean island near, called Cozumel in thesouthern part of Mexico.
(02:25):
So I went with him a bunch when I was really young and I started
He was a free diver way back there, way back then.
So he taught me how to free dive when I was eight, 10 years old.
And I started spearfishing my little red snappers to cook.
And that kind of put me in this wild, I guess, thought in which I wanted to live a life ofadventure, I guess.
(02:58):
And when I went through high school, through high school, I started into mountain sports,so climbing.
then when I was just starting college, I got into whitewater paddling.
Okay.
Is that in a canoe or a kayak or kayak?
Okay.
(03:19):
Cool.
And I started guiding, guiding different, different groups of people.
Eventually I, I, set up this, a small guiding what, adventure guiding company in Mexicowith a partner and, and started guiding and making some money while I was in college
(03:40):
studying architecture.
Okay.
And what kind of trips are you taking people on?
Well, it was mostly river related trips.
So river exploration, meaning rafting and kayaking, some canoeing, and a lot of hiking andaltitude climbing.
Believe it or not, there's a couple of big volcanoes in Mexico that are good climbingvolcanoes.
(04:05):
So we did a lot of climbing to the volcanoes and just jungle tracks and exploring.
Yeah.
You know, it's really interesting to hear you talk about being 10 years old and your dadteaching you to free dive.
You know, as a kid, I remember being on the lake in Michigan growing up and beingintroduced to the water that way.
(04:28):
But something about being on the water with your dad when you're a kid growing up, there'sjust something super special about that, right?
It's almost a little bit of a
coming of age of manhood and some other things that go on there.
And then probably your dad's sense of adventure was also rubbing off on you to someextent.
And also your direct experience of adventure, you know, being down there, spearfishing,catching dinner, you know, eating dinner, all of that.
(04:57):
just it gives you a connection to the planet and to life that you don't get if you grow upin the city, go into the grocery store every day to get your food.
Right.
So.
I can see that that would really kind of make an impact on you.
oh
I think you put it really well.
I have this really vivid image of us, know, my dad and myself going on a little Zodiacboat, you know, and dropping the anchor and he would go down, I would stay up in the boat
(05:29):
watching him.
would, you know, free dive, come up and give me the fish when I was younger and theneventually start diving with him.
And I had this really vivid idea of that.
that's really cherished, you know?
Right.
It's a that's a that's a sacred memory right there.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
My dad was into fishing.
And so I'd go out with him when I was too little to fish, actually, and then startedfishing and catching fish.
(05:54):
And we did fishing trips and some in Chile and some in Montana and Wyoming and, you know,places like this.
Right.
So, yeah, beautiful, beautiful memories, really that father energy.
Right.
It's really beautiful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
So love of adventure is what I'm hearing kind of all the way through.
And then you kind of expanded on that in your own way.
(06:16):
But there's more to it beyond your college days and your adventure guiding things.
Tell us more about that.
Because it's really kind of expanded into not just activities that you do, but kind of alife philosophy, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah.
So, you know, I started this, guiding company, adventure travel company.
(06:41):
So I did a lot of guiding and then I started architecture.
started, a small rafting lodge.
Mm-hmm.
beside a river and that eventually evolved into a hospitality business focused on smallboutique active hotels in nature.
(07:01):
So I guess my professional career, meaning architecture blended into my passion, which wasadventure.
And that's how I created a company called Roda Vento, which
you know, which is what I've done for the last 35 years is, is, you know, keep on creatingthis concept of, bringing people to closer to nature in a well-designed, beautiful manner,
(07:30):
in small hotels.
So that's, that's been my passion, but you know,
let me ask you this, are you the architect of these hotels or the owner of these hotels orthe purveyor of some sort or how does that work for you?
So I have a lot of hats on.
I am the architect and I am also the shareholder, bigger shareholder and operator.
(07:57):
So I'm kind of doing everything.
Yeah.
There's six.
Okay.
And are they all in Mexico or are they scattered around or?
They're all in Mexico.
Yeah.
They're all in Mexico.
Mexico is such a big, beautiful country that's in some, you know, some areas are veryunexplored and undeveloped.
(08:20):
Others aren't, but, but, yeah, we tend to go to the unexplored areas.
Yeah.
And, so in this journey, mostly as I was guiding, I was always in this trend of
trying to be strong and keep healthy and have big goals, right?
(08:44):
So I was always thinking of climbing a new mountain or doing a big new river descent.
And that took me on this path of working and training really hard and then, you know,trying to accomplish the goal and then going back home and feeling
(09:06):
exhausted and mentally tired and, and then wanting to not do anything for a little while.
then guilt start creeping in and I said, I need another goal.
You know, I got into this cycle that I guess eventually started banging up my body, youknow, and I had a lot of injuries and I was kind of tired and,
(09:34):
Injuries from the adventure activities is what I'm hearing.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
Or the training, was it the training or was it the actual activities?
more, I think it was more the training.
Yeah.
Just training without a clear.
more of a, I guess, deeper meaning of why I was training, not only looking for oraccomplishing a goal.
(10:01):
So...
So, so, so what I'm hearing is that the training and being strong and getting ready andall of that was actually providing some sense of meaning for you.
Is that what you're saying?
Or you were trying to find meaning in it?
Or what did you, what did you mean by that?
By bringing meaning into the conversation.
I guess at that stage, was, it was more about my identity, you know?
(10:30):
I was this guy.
And I just needed to be that, you know?
And then I, you know, I'm 56 now.
When I was 49, I had a water skiing crash.
And I tore my meniscus really badly on my left knee and I had surgery and then thatsurgery didn't, I didn't feel good after, you know, some months and I went through another
(11:00):
surgery.
So all in all, I was out for two years, right?
And during those two years, it was really, it was, I couldn't move much, you know, Icouldn't jog for, for years and that
was a big, like a big hit to who I was, right?
(11:24):
Right.
Right.
Your identity was tied up in your capability to some extent.
Right.
Yeah.
um
so I had to, and then the pandemic came and you know, everybody kind of went, somethinghappened during the pandemic to each one of us.
ah And I started thinking about how to, how to start training differently and, and, uh andlooking at, I guess, looking at, at uh just being healthier from the inside out instead of
(11:55):
just, you know,
going harder and harder, which I had done.
And that's where I started kind of transforming the way I've developed and done my takingcare of myself for the latter years.
And that's how the Find Your Wild Flow book came to be.
(12:20):
Yeah.
So, know, flow and flow state is a very, very cool thing.
I imagine that what you're referring to when you talk about wild flow, could be flow of ariver, or maybe it's a flow state that you're referring to.
it one or the other or both?
Or what are you thinking when you say, find your wild flow?
(12:41):
It's definitely both.
did, you know, the, the, the times where I know I found my flow state on the deepest levelwas when I was paddling difficult rivers, you know, because that's when you really need to
be, yeah, in a total flow state, total focus, nothing around matters.
(13:04):
And you're just, you know, doing what you need to do.
So that's, I remember that fondly.
And I think that when you find this state of flow, it's beautiful.
Totally.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, they talk about flow as being that many people will report flow as being thebest feeling that they ever have.
(13:30):
You know, I read the book, The Rise of Superman, it was written by Steven Kotler when itcame out some years ago.
And in there, he's he's kind of building off the work of a Czechoslovakian psychologist.
I can't pronounce his name.
It's, like
18 letters long with a bunch of C's and Q's in it.
the interesting thing is that people describe flow as being kind of the pinnacleexperience of their life, the state of being in flow.
(13:59):
And for me, I've kind of come to understand flow as kind of like meditation in action,where you're fully, fully present, right?
Like you are in meditation.
And yet you're, and you're not
Even though you're doing something like I get into a flow state when I mountain bike,right?
So you're doing it, but you're also allowing it at the same time.
(14:20):
And you're, you're, you're not really kind of overthinking it.
You're just allowing the computer of your brain to just do the right thing.
And it's, it's like, it's happening.
It's just such a beautiful feeling.
I'm sure it's like that in a kayak.
They talk a lot about whitewater rafting and kayaking and, and things and you know,
skiing, I snowboard as well.
So you can get into a flow state, snowboarding in the trees and things like this.
(14:43):
So we're playing the guitar, playing music or even in conversation, you can get into aflow state.
So but it's a beautiful experience.
So it sounds like you had your most profound flow experiences when you were kayaking downthese challenging rivers.
Typically, it has to be a challenging kind of scenario.
So.
Yeah.
I think that this idea of challenge and even fear and dealing with being afraid ahenhances the flow state or gets you deeper into the flow state so that this fear is not
(15:22):
something that becomes panic or impedes you from performing.
It's just...
Yeah.
talk about it as being a challenge that's at 104%.
So it's, it's a bit beyond, you know, kind of being all in it's a bit beyond that.
So there's enough, say, intensity slash fear activation, but it's not so much that you'reoverwhelmed by it, right?
(15:45):
It's, it's enough to kind of pull you in.
So, Cool.
And I really liked that.
mean, I, I, um, I think that everybody should eventually feel that flow state.
you say, singing or playing music or whatever thing, you know?
(16:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There are many, many, many, many ways to, uh, to go into flow.
And one of the things that we're working to build here at Gladden Longevity beyond what itcurrently is, is, uh, to have a flow team where the team goes into a collective flow
state, right?
Where we create from that place.
this is, this is what we're working on right now.
(16:27):
It's super fun.
Wow, it must be, It must be, for sure.
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit about, you know, you've had some transformations along the way andyou talk about this striving to arrive this flow path, your path of inner strength.
You know, you've turned words like routine into ritual and some things like that.
(16:49):
You want to talk a little bit about some of that?
Yeah.
that, that, uh, idea of turning, turning around routine into ritual was something that Iworked on and it just clicked is that, you know, I've always thought about, I'm not a very
(17:10):
routine oriented person in the first place.
Like I'm, I'm more free flow.
uh, but so when I was
You know, always in my workouts, was thinking about tomorrow.
My routine is whatever, you know, pull-ups and push-ups and sprints or intervals orwhatever.
(17:33):
And it started to become something that had a, like a negative connotation in the sensethat it was always repetitive.
had to be done no matter how I felt.
Mm.
if I, if I was a little bit sad or I was feeling a little sick or whatever, my routine onTuesday is what it is.
(17:56):
And you just go for it.
And, and I think that when I turned it around and named it a ritual for me, a ritual issomething that I wake up to.
wanting to perform, right?
It gives me joy.
It kind of enhances uh me to be better.
So just that different click, it might be the same workout, right?
(18:21):
But it's just a different approach that makes it more about nourishing and growing andbeing better and feeling happier than performing what I need to do.
and I think that tears down a lot of objections of why people stop moving or stop, youknow, trying to keep healthier because they're always thinking that it's, it's a battle,
(18:51):
right?
It's an up uphill climb and, it's exhausting and it's hard.
And I think when you turn it around and start listening to your body, then
you know, things change and you do it with a different mentality.
Yeah, I think that's a wonderful insight.
I think you can start to look at all of that.
(19:13):
It becomes an opportunity instead of an obligation, right?
And it becomes something that you're grateful for as opposed to something that you'reresisting.
You move from kind of resistance into embracing it and enjoying it and again, beingpresent with it as opposed to feeling like it's something to get through so you can get to
the other side.
(19:33):
The joy itself is in the thing itself.
It's not on the other side of the thing, right?
So it's the act of being present, I think.
For me, that's what presence is all about.
It's when you're fully present, it's like there's only this moment.
There's only now.
And so, oh, well, this is a beautiful moment, right?
And so you're just living in the beauty of that moment as they link together.
(19:56):
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, and I think that either, even though most of us have heard what you just said, andwe hear it often, it's about today, it's about the journey, not the destination.
But for example, in training, most people don't enjoy the training.
(20:19):
They're training because they want to...
become or have a six pack or be leaner or be faster or whatever, right?
And I think that when you enjoy every single part of the process, first of all, when youleast think about it, you're there.
(20:43):
Like you've become.
That's right.
And then you enjoy the process, know, you enjoy the path.
I think it's more of a path than a goal.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think this idea of listening to your body is also important.
You know, you were talking about waking up and it's Tuesday.
So on Tuesday, I do this, right?
(21:05):
That's an external prescription.
I think it's better to write the prescription from inside.
Like, what is my recovery score today?
What is how do I feel today?
And then do something, but adapt to something to where your body is now.
It's it's much more nourishing for you to do it that way.
Maybe today's a good recovery day.
Maybe today's the day to do balance training or agility things or whatever.
(21:29):
And then after a good night's rest and you feel like the virus you were fighting off isgone, it's like, now's a good day to do the strength training.
You really do the pull-ups and the push-ups and the sprints or whatever else.
Right.
But kind of adapting the workouts to suit your body, as opposed to trying to adapt yourbody to the workout, I think is a much healthier way to avoid injury and also to make it
(21:51):
fun and enjoyable.
I don't know what your thoughts are about that, but yeah.
I think you couldn't have said it better.
I totally believe in listening to your body.
And it's from experience.
I didn't listen to my body at all.
I just did it.
And after my knee thing and my recovery, after my knee, the muscle in my left thigh wasthe size of my arm.
(22:17):
was this big after two years.
Yeah.
was totally unbalanced, my body hurt and I needed to listen to it, right?
And like you say, think that when you, just on the weekend, went paddling actually, waterpaddling.
(22:39):
I paddled quite a bit, but I think I drank some water of the river and got a stomachinfection.
And, you know, and I was, I was feeling weak and that's not the time to train, you know,it's the time to recover.
It's the time to drink and recover and chill and, and, think.
(23:04):
And when the energy comes back, it's time, it's time to train.
if, if like we're saying before Monday, the recipe is you go out and jog.
Mm-hmm.
then yeah, then you'll eventually drop it.
That's what I feel.
I think so either that or you'll get injured one or the other.
(23:24):
Right.
think an injury, think the tragedy of injury, as you discovered with your, with your kneeinjury, Paul water skiing is an injury is the, know, sets us back so far, right?
We then we have to recover and it's, it's very difficult.
Even, you know, if you're knocked out for.
seven days, eight days, you start to feel it, right?
(23:47):
You can miss a day, right?
You can miss three days, but after that, you know, you start to feel it.
And so that's why avoiding injury and recovering from injury as quickly as possible.
That's why we use a lot of peptides and things like that.
And we're very proactive about an injury.
If we get an injury, like, no, let's heal it now.
Let's heal it as quickly as possible.
Well, let me see how it is three weeks from now, right?
Because we know we're going to be losing ground and then you got the work to kind of getthat back.
(24:11):
So, yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm really keen into listening and I've had a big debate on, on, on, on the, you know, themonitor, the new monitors, you know, the ordering or the whoop or whatever where you're, I
(24:32):
guess it helps you understand your body.
but I think it's, I think it's better or it's as good to learn how to listen to your bodywithout technology and just confirming it with technology instead of, you know, just
(24:56):
looking at your watch and saying, my watch said I didn't, I didn't sleep right.
Mm-hmm.
and then that creates an anxiety and then you don't sleep anyway.
I don't know.
I don't know what, what your thoughts are about that, but.
Well, I think it can be a helpful training tool.
For me, it's like a continuous glucose monitor, right?
It can be helpful.
can coach you.
(25:16):
It's like real time coaching.
And that can be super helpful, particularly if you're not really attuned to how your bodyfeels when your blood sugar go ups or how your body feels when you haven't gotten the
right amount of sleep or you don't really realize, you know, how your heart ratevariability is impacted by flying or things like that.
So it can be a great coach.
(25:37):
to give you more information than you could probably resource on your own.
But after a while, you kind of learn that.
And then I think to your point, you start to listen to your body and that's, there's a lotof wisdom right there.
yeah, that's how I think about it.
Yeah.
You you talk about,
Feeling creative is being alive.
(25:59):
Tell us a little bit about that.
You're obviously a creative guy.
You've started businesses, you're an architect, you're designing hotels, you're buildinghotels, you're operating hotels, and there's a lot of creativity that goes into that.
When did this creative element sort of kick in for you?
Was it from the very beginning or you didn't fully realize it until later or how did thatwork?
(26:24):
I think I always had a lot of ideas, know, from when I was really young.
I think I was the little boy who had a bunch of ideas.
um I've never had an issue with creativity.
I think that the downside of being too creative is that.
(26:45):
out of a hundred ideas that come to mind, maybe two work.
So you have to deal with all the other 98 that didn't, you know, and say, well, it's partof the process of being creative, right?
ah And I think I want to always go back to what really, you know, makes my heart pump is,
(27:11):
being out there and adventure in nature is that I think creativity is a lot likeexploration.
When you go out exploring, be it in the mountains or the forest or whatever, or justexploring in business or whatever other scenario, you have to be creative.
(27:34):
You can't explore without creativity.
That's right.
You have to be there and invent stuff and try stuff and go out there and have ideas andthen get rejected and, know, and go back to rethinking them.
And that, I think that that's a big driver in life.
(27:55):
If, if you stop exploring whatever your scenario is, I think it gets boring, you know?
Yeah, I think, I think for me it does as well.
Um, I tend to explore everything, right?
I always take a learner's mindset to anything that I'm going into.
(28:15):
I think that's really the best mindset.
Um, and I think trying things, I've always learned the best by trying things because I'llfigure it out.
Um, back when I was practicing interventional cardiology, um, people would bring me newtechnologies and tell me what it did.
And I would.
After a while, would say, no, just actually just give it to me.
(28:35):
I'll actually tell you what it does because I knew that I would play with it and I wouldfigure out what it was actually good for.
Right.
And then I would tell him what it was good for.
And many times it was like, oh, really?
It'll do that.
Yeah, this is actually really good for this.
So but it's the idea of of actually playing with it and having confidence in your abilityto figure things out.
(28:56):
Right.
And being an explorer of life, if you will, which is something you talk about.
Um, have you done any personality profiles, that kind of highlight any of this for you?
Like there's things called the culture index or Colby profile or things like that, thatactually highlight people that, um, have kind of more of an adventurous creative, um, you
(29:17):
know, psychology, if you will, or personality.
I haven't, I haven't done, I should, understand them and get to know them.
Yeah, yeah, they're actually fun.
Maybe I'll send you one you can take.
So, yeah, yeah, we do them for all of our clients.
m Culture indexes can be really enlightening for people actually.
(29:39):
So that's kind of So you've learned how to balance uh entrepreneurship, adventure andfamily.
Tell us about that, the balancing of those three.
I think it's about being, I don't know the word in English, congruent?
(30:04):
We're Yeah, we're Yeah.
think that when you're congruent in business and with the way you enjoy your family andinteract with your family and your friends, the issue of having a balance becomes easier
(30:27):
because everything makes sense.
think when those three aspects of
important aspects of life don't talk to each other, are not congruent with each other,then it becomes really difficult to balance them, right?
And give them priorities, prioritize them, say, you know, this, should devote whateverhours or...
(30:55):
When they talk to each other, it's been easier.
Of course, there's some times that you have to...
push hard in work and then your kids start saying, you didn't show up at the soccer gameor whatever, you But I really have made an effort to make all my life be faithful to who I
(31:23):
am.
My work ethic, the way I talk to people, the way I...
I promote my business.
I'm always thinking about me being the guest of my hotels and what I enjoy, right?
What would really bring me joy if I was the guest?
And that's why design.
(31:44):
So then it's easier to talk about your business to your son, right?
And make him understand the whys.
That's right.
Yeah, I think there's...
There's a richness to that idea of being congruent.
It means that you can always show up as yourself.
(32:05):
You never have to kind of put on a hat that doesn't fit you to actually go into anenvironment that you're not really comfortable with, but you're forced to be in, right?
You've created, you've explored enough to find and create the environments that enable youto show up as who you really are, right?
And that's really your own doing.
You've created that.
So there's been a drive for you to want to be congruent.
(32:28):
I would say that's the reason you're congruent and that's the reason you have thebusinesses and the family and, you know, the adventures that you have, seems like.
Yeah, yeah, I've always, I've never seen myself as a salesman who's selling something thathe doesn't believe in, you know?
Sure.
No, same.
Yeah, I mean, you know.
(32:50):
yeah, it's, it's, everybody has their own path of life and their own, their needs.
But, but I, it just, I don't see myself doing that, you know, and that's, that's givingme, given me the ability to, to, for all the aspects of my life to, be in balance, know,
(33:11):
in sync, I would say instead of balance.
It's easy to want to leverage ourselves for the sake of getting something that we think weneed or want, or will make us something or other, right?
Like either an education, a job, a certain amount of money.
People leverage themselves, you know, kind of step outside their comfort zone to kind ofcreate something.
This doesn't mean we can't be uncomfortable doing something that we're committed to.
(33:33):
That's not what I'm saying.
But but doing that to the extent where you kind of are putting your hope.
in finding fulfillment, meaning congruence even in something that is yet to be attained asopposed to living from a congruent place to starting today and then building from that
(33:53):
place, right?
You'll be congruent the whole time rather than kind of this delayed gratification of it'salways, another, you know, X number of dollars, you know, further out there or, you know,
whatever it is, right?
Three more healths.
hotels more and it'll be there, right?
That kind of thing.
You have the idea to be congruent now with one hotel and then that can lead to two hotelsand whatever.
(34:16):
So yeah, I think there's a lot of wisdom in that.
What that does is it really lowers inherent internal strife and stress in your system,which actually slows down the aging process is really what happens and enables you to be
more youthful.
That's what we see.
people that have leveraged themselves like that when they come into the clinic here, wecan measure their nervous system status and we can see how leveraged they are.
(34:39):
And even people that leveraged themselves and then quit a decade ago may still carry theechoes of that leveraging of themselves in their nervous systems to this very day, even
though they don't feel stressed.
We see that they're carrying tons of stress still in their, yeah, in their nervoussystems.
And so then,
teaching them to be able to reprogram that, right?
(35:00):
Because it does accelerate aging for sure.
Yeah, it's very cool.
That's interesting, m
I should go visit you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Come on up.
Sure.
Yeah.
I'd be happy to be happy to do that.
So, well, it sounds like you're ah sounds like you're living an adventurous life.
(35:22):
Sounds like you're living a life that you would like to be living.
That's kind what I'm hearing.
Or is there or is there something I'm missing there?
Are there things that you're you feel like you're missing or where do you stand with that?
No, I think that, I mean, of course we're always looking to...
be better in some aspect of, or maybe a sense of unfulfillment, trying to strive to bebetter, right?
(35:50):
And there's always this debate inside my head in which I'm thinking, should I be devotingmore time to a hobby instead of the work of putting together the investment for a hotel,
you know?
(36:11):
And I think it's always kind of the game of the, I have a friend who calls it the game ofthe sheet, you know, of a bed.
If you pull one way, the end of the bed gets uncovered.
So it's always this game of the sheet, right?
So you have to play that game.
(36:31):
And I think it's about being conscious, you know?
I think it's about...
I don't think nobody, anybody is.
super happy and not, I'm as happy as I can be and there's nothing more that I can do.
I think that's a state that only maybe the Dalai Lama can accomplish, right?
(36:53):
But so I think it's always about being conscious and saying, I know that maybe I'm pullinga little bit this way and that has consequences, but I'm conscious.
So I take care of it, of this other.
part of the bed that's uncovered, you know?
And that's the way I see it.
(37:15):
I'm in a stage now where I'm pulled towards work, maybe a little bit more than I wouldwant to because of a couple of new projects.
And I know it and I know that I have to be conscious and not get, you know, too pulled,too pulled.
(37:37):
away from my center.
There's other times in life where I've been really active in traveling and training orwhatever, but I feel the lack of accomplishing something in work.
So I think it's more about being conscious and being mindful of the different aspects.
(37:59):
Yeah, I think that's right.
I think you can, in the moment, you can prioritize one thing over another, but thepriorities can change as you kind of move along.
and as things get completed or whatever, and add, quite honestly, the priorities canchange from day to day.
Like on a Saturday, your priorities can be completely different than they were on aFriday.
so the flexibility to actually move through those states.
(38:24):
ah in a conscious way can give you balance even though at any particular moment you'rekind of pulling the sheet one a little bit further to this side of the bed, right?
So yeah, yeah, I think that's right.
And I think it's, what I've experienced is in life, are short cycles, like the one youdescribed, maybe the weekend, you're feeling something during the week, there's another
(38:48):
feeling.
And then there's longer cycles in which, you know, there's three, four or five monthswhere you're feeling some, something, and then, and then you, you're feeling more
energized or less energized or.
happier, sad, whatever, but it's these cycles in life that are sometimes, of course youhave to be mindful, but you have to let them, ride them, right?
(39:17):
Instead of fight them.
That's right.
Yeah, sometimes it's just called for.
It's a season of this, right?
I think life does come in seasons.
So yeah, there's no doubt about it.
I think embracing each season and finding the equilibrium in that season, even though theequilibrium may shift a little bit, you're still in equilibrium, right?
Like now I'm going to focus on.
(39:37):
That's right.
That's That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And within that, there are short timeframes also, right?
Where it is, you know, day to day.
So, ah yeah, that gives you flexibility inside the longer timeframe.
But I like the description of season.
It is seasons, yeah.
And I guess the old people, ancient people used to live by the seasons much more than wedo and acknowledge those seasons, right?
(40:05):
That's right.
That's right.
Exactly.
we want to change season from one day to the other.
Mm-hmm.
That's right.
Now that's cool.
Well, you're an interesting guy, Mulder.
You've led a life of introspection, right?
In other words, being aware, keeping tabs on how you're feeling, listening, not only yourbody, but your psyche, being creative, being an explorer, being an adventurer.
(40:31):
And you've done it.
You've done it consciously.
mean, what you're creating, you're doing consciously.
You're aware of what you're doing while you're doing it.
Right.
And so that's a great way to live.
So very cool.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it coming from you.
Oh, yeah, my pleasure.
Yeah, it a pleasure to chat with you.
Thanks so much.
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