In this episode of the Gladden Longevity Podcast, Kyle Zagrodsky discusses his journey with OsteoStrong, a company dedicated to reversing bone density loss. The conversation explores the importance of fear and courage in personal growth, the science behind OsteoStrong's innovative equipment, and the significant impact of bone health on overall well-being. Kyle shares success stories from users of OsteoStrong, emphasizing the potential for rebuilding bone density and improving quality of life. The episode concludes with Kyle's vision for the future of OsteoStrong and its mission to eliminate osteoporosis globally.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:19):
Welcome everybody.
Today I'm going to be joined by Kyle Zagradsky.
It's a name that rolls off my tongue pretty easily.
Kyle's been working with a company that we have a lot of admiration for called Osseostron.
And as you know, going through life, a lot of people will lose bone density.
(01:39):
They're on a mission to actually reverse that for people.
So Kyle, welcome to the Glad Longevity Podcast.
Go ahead and I appreciate it.
Excited to be here.
Yeah, absolutely.
So tell us a little bit about how you ended up at Osteostraun because what I'm guessing iswhen you were five years old, you weren't thinking to yourself, gosh, I'd like to grow up
(01:59):
and be focused on bone density.
No, not when I was five.
When I was 16, I had this realization that life was just really a flash in the pan.
wasn't really a long time in the grand scheme of creation.
Sure.
And and I just had a heartfelt prayer to God where I said, you know, I wanted I wanted tohave a life of meaning and impact and do amazing things with what he had given me.
(02:27):
And so
He revealed to me, says, you have a lot of fear, fear is your compass.
And that's always been my, really the thing that's drawn me.
just beyond overcoming fears and so forth, I always had this just intense desire to helppeople or to make things better.
It's always been kind of my driving question.
(02:48):
How do I make this better?
How do I help people?
How do I shine God's light in this situation?
It's interesting using fear as a compass.
Tell us a little bit more about that.
Not everybody has fear as a compass.
Some people have fear as an anti-compass, so to speak, but some people could use it aseither a tractant or a repellent or there's lots of different ways to think about that.
(03:09):
How does that work?
Yeah, so it's a good question.
And I think I think it should be everybody's sort of guiding principle.
You know, I've got a couple different life foundational life principles that I go by.
In fact, I was speaking to my youngest son who's now 16.
And he's homeschooled now, but he wanted to finish out, or he's considering finishing outthe last two years in public high school is where he wants to have that experience.
(03:33):
And he's been thinking about that for a while.
And I said, Look, so I said, I said, your dad, I said, I'm a
I'm a I'm a Titan.
And I said it's not because I'm anything special.
There's always somebody smarter than me, more athletic, better looking funnier, thoughthat's hard to do.
But she said the thing that really differentiates me from a lot of people that I work withand know is that, you know, I overcome my fears and I make decisions on imperfect,
(04:05):
imperfect information or impartial information just because there's not
You can't know everything and you have to make a decision.
So the people that are willing to make a decision on imperfect or impartial informationand step into their fear are the people that usually accomplish amazing things in the
world.
So I said, go to high school, don't go to high school.
(04:26):
The choice is yours.
I don't judge your decision either way, but don't let it be.
imperfect or impartial information or fear that keeps you making from making that decisiongo have the experience just do things right yeah
think fear is a really interesting teacher in a lot of ways.
You know, when I think about fear in my own life, when I think about my own life, I relateto people that I think maybe one of the biggest, and there is a number of these, but
(04:53):
certainly in the top five, is courage.
It takes courage, actually, to live the full expression of your life, right?
To live an authentic life, to where you really are, the true expression of who you're hereto be, let's say.
And that takes a lot of courage, which means basically it's a flip side of the coin onfear.
And when you think about fear, when I think about fear, one of the things for me is tounderstand, okay, I'm feeling fearful.
(05:16):
Why am I feeling fearful?
What's, what's, what's making me feel fearful about this?
Is there anything to fear feel full about?
Right.
And that whole process becomes such a personal growth process.
If, if you're listening to this and you're bumping into something around fear, I thinkdeconstructing
the whole scenario to actually understand, you know, what's going on?
(05:37):
Why does fear even exist here and what is it and what's my contribution to it?
What's my mental construct that's maybe holding something out there that maybe isn't evennecessarily true, you know, maybe.
So when you when you kind of attack fear or tackle fear to deconstruct it, understand itand kind of tame it at the same time that you're leveraging courage to go forward, you can
(05:59):
make to your point, you can make tremendous progress instead of being, you know,
held up.
It's huge.
Everybody I think the first thing to do is everybody deals with fear of all type.
I think the people that put on a front that they're not afraid of anything and whateverthey're just that that's just a front to look good.
Those people always look amazing on social media and so forth and courage doesn't existwithout fear.
(06:24):
Right.
It wouldn't be courageous if you weren't fearful to begin with.
If you're not taking action on something is because you're afraid.
And so I think that just getting like you said, you know, look at yourself from fromwhence does this come and why do I feel it?
That's a good thing to know.
But if you could identify it, do it anyway.
Yeah.
The other thing on the other on the other side of fear is either love or nothing.
(06:47):
I mean, before I started osteostrong, I remember I had the idea, I was excited about theidea.
told a couple of people about the idea.
They were excited about the idea.
And then a few days went by and I wasn't taking action on the things that I needed to doto start the idea.
And I'm like, why am I not taking action on this idea that I and everybody else loves?
(07:09):
And I stopped and I'm like, because I'm afraid I know how hard it's going to be to createan industry to educate the consumer.
There were so many unknowns and I'm like, crap.
I just sort of, I'm kind like that Jim Carrey in that movie, Yes Man, where Tony Robbinswent and said,
basically put his hand on his head and said, you're gonna say yes to everything.
(07:30):
And I believe that was the movie he did that.
anyway, yeah.
So I just said, you know, if it scares you, you must it just sort of became this deal likeyou have to do it.
So when I was younger, I was afraid of public speaking.
So I took a speech class in high school, I got my auctioneers license and
And I was like, that could be the most the scariest thing that I could possibly imaginedoing would be doing an ocknearing.
(07:56):
Yeah.
then I was afraid of flying.
So I, I went got my pilot's license.
was terrified.
But you just you just do it.
I think the I think the the chronic fears, not the acute fears, the ones you spiders,heights, snakes, whatever, those are things are just like the big acute fears, like people
(08:16):
know they have those.
I think it's the chronic fears that are probably the most inhibiting.
Yeah, debilitating.
They're ones that keep you from living life.
That's right.
That's right.
I think people say no to things all the time out of fear.
Quite honestly, when in their heart they would love to say yes, but they're too fearful tosay yes, right?
Whether it's into a relationship, whether it's into a project, whether it's into a careerchange or whatever it is.
(08:43):
loss, fear of never fear of being hurt, fear of being judged, fear of not being goodenough.
It's all those things.
Or some of those things.
Yeah, one of the things that's helped me here and I don't know if this will resonate withyou or not, but Is the the idea of non-attachment So if you basically go into something
(09:05):
and you're asking yourself, why am I fearful about this?
Well, it's typically for me It's because I'm attached to an idea of what happens if itworks out differently than what I'm hoping for or thinking about right it's like and so
you get attached to a particular outcome and then
If that feels in jeopardy, then you become fearful.
Then it's like, I don't want to risk that.
So I won't do it at all.
(09:29):
I was just going to say, but I've kind of gotten to this place of not identifying withwhat I'm doing.
I identify as Jeff Gladden, this spiritual creature that's here on planet Earth and ahuman body to actually, you know, from a loving place, create joy.
That's actually what I'm here to do.
(09:50):
But you and I, you and I should hang out.
I'm the same way.
think, I think you'd even take a step further.
call it living life with an open hand.
and it's not holding onto anything, everything that's in your life from your spouse toyour children, to your home, to your investments, to your business and whatever they,
(10:10):
they're not really yours.
And it doesn't really matter.
That's right.
None of those things really matter.
you, I think one of the things, some coaching I was giving somebody one time, said, youreally want to understand what matters.
Go to YouTube and there's, there's interviews of people who live to be a hundred yearsold.
And they always ask, you know, what mattered most.
Right.
And none of them, no one's going to remember you for any of like 99.9 % of the stuff thatyou're working on or doing.
(10:37):
And when you understand that, why in the hell are you doing it?
and
identify with it.
I mean, it's one thing to work on it because it's you see it as an opportunity or a visionit, but to be attached to it and to identify with it, I think creates all kinds of
problems.
It does.
Well, it just stifles you and keeps you from taking action.
And I was telling somebody, said, who cares if you lose everything?
(11:01):
Who really cares?
Like, Ogman Dino wrote, the greatest salesman in the world became a best seller.
And he wrote that when he was homeless, right?
I he didn't have the inspiration for it until he was homeless.
So sometimes you just have to have things taken away from you to give you perspective.
So I'm like, okay, take it away from yourself first.
Yeah.
(11:22):
And then you'll get the perspective without having to go through the pain and suffering ofloss less and never.
Yeah, I think this right.
It's a fear of loss in many respects.
And there's also a fear of success.
A lot of people have sort of a chronic sort of low lying fear of success.
What's that going to do to me?
Right.
So but I think the answer in both cases, whether it's fear of loss or fear of success, isnot being attached to it, not being identified with it.
(11:49):
Even the success, just don't even be attached to that.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, I agree.
Beautiful.
Yeah, I think of myself with the same thing as I'm just a spiritual being.
This is just a stepping stone in eternity.
Yeah.
And not just have fun with it, have impact, love, love and shine light as much as youpossibly can.
(12:12):
And and always leave people better than you found them even though even the person at thegrocery store just always leaves somebody with a smile on their face That's that's all you
if that's the only impact you could have that day do it
Absolutely.
Yeah.
No, that's great.
Well, well, that was a good podcast.
should just conclude right now.
What are we here to talk about?
(12:34):
Well, I think we're here to talk about bones and strong bones, right?
So I think everybody listening understands that strong bones are important for health andthey're strong because when you fall down, you don't break them, right?
That's one.
way that they're important.
Another is posture.
Another is some other things, but let's talk about bones in particular.
(12:56):
And I have my own take on some stuff that I'll share with you, but, how did you pick bonesand how did you get into that?
Did you have some sort of personal history with it or your mom had asked your penia orsomething?
I mean, is there anything like that or
A little bit of that, but that wasn't really the motivation.
So I had a, I'm what you'd call a bootstrap entrepreneur, which is to say that I get anidea, I self-fund it and I go.
(13:19):
Right.
I've started to run many companies.
My companies have generated well over $200 million in this kind of stuff, right?
Like there's a lot, there's, are guys out there that do this stuff and that I'm not sayingthat to impress you, except that I don't get out of bed in the morning to do things unless
I understand its place in the world and the impact it will have.
(13:40):
And so I'd been started and ran a software company for a long time and I was bored withit.
I was so bored.
I love what we created.
It's great.
It's a great tool.
Still used.
I started that company in 1997, but I was like, I gotta do something and I want to dosomething meaningful.
I thought about starting a gym chain because my wife and I had owned several gyms beforeand I thought, yeah, maybe I'd do that.
(14:02):
Cause I don't like helping people, but I thought, there's just not a lot of innovation andfitness.
And I just not excited about creating another brand that's kind of doing the same thing,moving weight through space or getting maintaining heart rate and all this stuff.
It's all important.
It's good stuff.
There just wasn't a lot of innovation.
I didn't think I was going to be able to bring anything new to it.
(14:23):
at that point I stumbled on Dr.
Jake, which he was giving a talk on his pro earlier prototype of what we have now at osteostrong.
And I was listening to him and I thought,
I experienced two emotions simultaneously, which is hard to do these two particularmotions, which is love and fear.
I loved what he created.
(14:44):
I was just amazed by it.
I thought this is probably one of the most profound longevity.
Athletic performance, you know, inventions in the history of the world.
but it works so differently that no one's going to believe it.
And if I don't do something about it, this is going to end up in the dustbin of history.
(15:06):
So I took him out to dinner and I said, how many of these prototypes have you sold?
He's like about 10 or 12.
And I said, my guess is that in 30 days, nobody's using it.
And he's like, what do you read my F and emails?
And I said, no, they don't understand it.
No one's going to believe that, you know, I sat there, I saw you take 20 people throughit.
(15:26):
takes about five or six minutes to do a session.
But within that session, you're only doing about 60 seconds of effort.
No one's going to believe that 60 seconds of effort one day a week is delivering whateverresult this is delivering.
They're going to attribute that success to anything.
Right.
Right.
Hey, I started rubbing aloe vera on my joints or whatever like snake oil thing they'vebeen taught.
(15:48):
They'll attribute to anything.
And I said, this is going to require education.
It is so different than anything anybody's done.
It doesn't it doesn't even deserve to it shouldn't even be in a gym should be on a shelfall by itself.
You know, right.
So let's just stop there for one quick second.
me interrupt you because we're talking about equipment and osteoestrongy.
(16:09):
Let's just describe that for the listening audience exactly what we're talking about.
What is osteoestrongy?
What does that equipment look like and how is it used?
To your to your kind of a segue into that bone is very important.
It's not just about fracture and fracture prevention Bone density is linked to type 2diabetes dementia your immune system athletic performance all those things joint and back
(16:35):
pain Posture balance everything it's all tied to bone density in fact I would state thatwith all the cool longevity stuff that you and I are both seeing happen in our space
people will live longer, they will prevent cancer and so forth and so on.
But if they're not doing something to maintain their bone density, that will be the thingthat leads to their demise because of like a hip fracture over the age of 65 has a higher
(17:02):
mortality rate, a two year mortality rate than breast cancer, substantially higher.
So a broken front bone, but how does this work exactly?
Well,
There are four different devices that we use at osteostraun each device.
You can like I'm wearing a sweater because it's cold outside today.
(17:22):
And I can own a pair of jeans and boots and I can go and do an osteostraun session as I'mdressed right now because because it's such an abbreviated amount of time.
I'm not going to break a sweat.
I'm not going to get fatigued and I'm not going to get sore the next day.
But the what
these devices do is what's unique.
They look a bit like gym equipment actually, but they function much more differently.
(17:46):
And it's based upon the foundational idea was Wolf's Law.
So Dr.
Julius Wolf was this German doctor in the 1890s.
And he did this research that concluded that by putting enough pressure on themusculoskeletal system to cause the bones to flex would cause them to
(18:06):
developed stronger bones, more dense bones.
As you it's Wolf's Law.
Still taught in medical schools and chiropractors to this day.
But there was one question that his research did not answer and it was key, which is howmuch pressure is needed to trigger this effect of osteogenesis or the development of new
bone?
(18:27):
And there was another researcher that came along in 2012 out of Bristol, United Kingdom,and he sought to answer that question.
What is the minimum dose response to trigger osteogenesis?
It was very clever.
And so what he did was he took these accelerometers, he attached them to over 700subjects, then he measured the amount of impact force that they received and expressed it
(18:47):
in terms of multiples of their own body weight.
Which I thought was good because you could have a 200 pound person and a 100 pound personwho stand to reason that the 200 pound person would require more force than the 100 pound
person so multiples the body weight was a great way to express it and What he found was isthe only subjects in the study that experienced osteogenesis or the development of new
(19:08):
bone or ones that experienced a minimum of 4.2 multiples of their own body weight, whichis a substantial amount of force in fact sitting here
Anybody listening this, you know, like, just take your own body weight, keep it simple,multiply it times four.
You're not going to put that much weight under a weight stack at the gym.
It's extremely dangerous to do it.
(19:30):
Very few people can do such a thing.
And so how do you do it?
Well, impact is the other way.
In fact, you see this with certain types of athletes that get high impact versus athletesthat get low impact, swimming, cycling, low impact.
fact, swimmers and cyclists will often get osteoporosis.
Sprinters far less but gymnasts they are pound for pound the strongest athletes in theworld because Not because they're working out harder than any other athletes that when
(19:59):
they go spinning through the air and they hit the ground they're generating many multiplesof their body weight there go triggering osteogenesis and Developing new bone and when you
get stronger bones and people don't realize this about athletic performance, but yourcentral nervous system
is will never allow your muscles to create more force than what your bones can handle.
(20:21):
And so your athletic performance limitation is in fact, in many cases, the strength ofyour bones.
And by strengthening your bones, you're raising the threshold by which your centralnervous system will allow you to perform better athletically.
So it's like, okay, how in the world do we create machines that could create this muchforce?
(20:41):
So you imagine that she got four different devices, each one is focusing on a differentarea of your body.
And what Dr.
Jaques figured out, and he was inspired because his mom actually had an osteoporosisdiagnosis in her mid seventies, and she didn't want to take the medication.
And he's like, okay, and he came to the conclusion, says, osteoporosis is not really evena disease, it's just a deconditioning of bone.
(21:06):
How do we, anything that could be deconditioned could be reconditioned.
But when he realized it was high impact force that would recondition bone, it's notsomething you could put a 75 year old through.
So then he read another study out of Brazil that found that like, say for instance, you'redoing a bench press at the apex of your press before your, your arms lock out, you're able
(21:27):
to, you're able to produce seven times more force than you were if when the bar is on yourchest.
And he's like, well,
do seven times more force and you should be able to self-generate that level of force ifyou could lock a person in that position.
So the devices are designed to put people in their biomechanically strongest range ofmotion for a given exercise and then it will lock into place and then the user or the
(21:56):
member in our case, Van Osteostrong will self-impose force for about 10 or 15 seconds.
in their strongest range of motion.
And they're looking at a screen that is giving them real time feedback of how much forcethey're creating.
They could see they're doing many multiples of their body weight.
And what's cool is not only does it take a short period of time, the amount of force thatyou could actually generate would shock you.
(22:22):
so, and then the amount of force that you're able to generate just continues to go up andup up and up and up over time.
And so we have, we looked at the data from 500 people with an average age of 52 over fouryears, and they were able to increase the amount of force that they did across all four
machines on average by 290%.
(22:44):
The amount of force they're creating, but so many other things are happening when you dothat.
You're not just creating force.
on the bones, but physical strength radically increases, balance and agility radicallyincreases.
And so we've seen this with, we've had athletes winning gold medals and setting recordsshortly after using osteostrong.
(23:04):
But we also see people in their eighties and nineties who came into osteostrong withosteoporosis.
And after a couple of years, they don't, they're either osteopenia or osteoporosis.
In fact, there was a study that just published out of Sweden.
That was the Greek study.
The Greek study where, no, it was the Swedish study, where it was 192 participants, halfof them were in the control group, the osteostrom group, the average T-score showed that
(23:34):
the subjects were on average all on the verge of having osteoporosis, known as osteopenia.
And then after the nine-month study, on average, they'd all moved out of osteopenia intonormal bone.
Yeah, I love that.
It's, yeah, it's really interesting.
Um, it's an interesting concept.
There's a real interesting interplay between the nervous system and the muscles and thebone.
(23:56):
And for me, when I think about working out, I've kind of come to realize that it's reallyon some level, it's really all about the nervous system in the sense that the nervous
system is controlling how much you can move, where you move and that sort of thing.
You can then enable your, you can give your, uh, nervous system more ammunition.
If you will, by strengthening the bones, right?
(24:17):
Which now gives them more, by strengthening your muscles, your, your nervous system isgoing to shut down your muscles or shut down your activity based on if it senses that it's
overtaxing, uh, the physical infrastructure, the muscle, the bone, the tendon, theligament, you know, all the different things that are involved there.
And, and for us, as we age, what we find is that many people's nervous systems are out oftune.
(24:42):
Like for us, it's like.
When we're a hundred years old, we want to be fast, agile, strong, quick, balanced, right?
With great cardiovascular capacity, reserve, flexibility and strong bones, of course.
We want to be able to run down the stairs.
We want to be able to, you know, dance with our eyes closed.
We want to be able to do all these things.
And what we find is that in order to do that, as we age, it's so important to train thenervous system to do that.
(25:07):
Like we do figure eights backwards with our eyes closed and we do lots of balance trainingand things like that.
To corroborate what you're saying, I love the interplay between the nervous system andbone density also.
And I think most people don't understand that bones can actually be rebuilt and that itcan be done so quickly in a sense.
(25:30):
It's really a matter of minutes.
So I think it's super exciting what you're doing.
I'll just say in our practice, we also do other things.
We measure everybody on DEXA scans.
So we see.
what's happening, where it's happening throughout their skeletal system.
We typically see that the neck of the femur or the hip at the hip joint is kind of theweakest point for most people.
(25:53):
and of the most devastating and costly.
Exactly.
you fall, that's where you're to break your hip.
And so, yeah, and it has massive implications for recovery, health and everything else.
There are other things that factor into this, too.
You know, we're measuring everybody's hormone levels and optimizing that optimizingthyroid, optimizing nutrients and the things that you need to make collagen.
(26:18):
And then there are supplements that can shut down the osteoclasts that are destroying boneand you can actually up
regulate the osteoblasts, right, that are making bone.
So you can, there's a whole synergy of things that can go together here to build bone.
And we've also found that bone is nicely built when you can optimize sexual hormones andgrowth hormone.
(26:40):
So using growth hormone, releasing peptides and things like testosterone and estrogen, wecan get really nice effects for people in terms of, you know, rebuilding bone.
And when you add in osteostrong,
my gosh, I mean, it's like night and day.
So what osteostrong is essentially gonna do is it's gonna create an adaptive response thatyour body is going to start building bone, muscle, ligament and tendon density as well as
(27:11):
neurological, I guess the neurological connection between the brain and the muscles in aunique way.
If you're lacking in hormone optimization or nutrition or both,
That that could definitely slow down your results.
And so we we we've seen when the people have proper nutrition, that that will knock outthat will get about 90 to 95 % of the people will see a result.
(27:38):
That's the other 4.9 % hormone optimization.
And then there's always gonna be like a half a percent or less that have some other
autoimmune disease or cancer or some type of information that's inhibiting their result.
But a lot of our centers will actually guarantee the results if they're taking thecondition along with doing osteostrong.
(28:02):
Yeah.
No, it's amazing.
So, so when people are in your centers and they're doing their workouts, do they start,being able to, you talked about 4.2 times your body weight.
I would suspect a lot of people when they first go in there can't generate 4.2 times theirbody weight.
Okay, well to be more specific, the deer study that talked about the 4.2 that was reallyjust through the hip joint.
(28:28):
There hasn't been a study determining how much force would need, for instance, the wristbones or the clavicle.
When DEXA scans are done, they're really only looking at the femoral neck of the hip andthe lumbar region of the spine.
The main reason is those are the most costly and devastating fractures for elderly.
(28:51):
But Dexa scans aren't really looking at bone density and other parts of your body.
they didn't do a study to see, what does it take to build bone density in your wrist, yourclavicle or your ankles and these kinds of things.
Osteostra is going to do the whole gamut, even though we're looking at other stuff.
And the Jason Deere study on the 4.2 was
(29:14):
was specifically looking at pressure needed to build hip bone.
And so we don't know, we can estimate, we've had different stuff done, but to answer toyour question, you'd be surprised.
Most people are able to generate 4.2 multiples body weight through their hips, even intheir 70s and 80s.
(29:37):
And if they aren't, it usually takes a month or two and then they are.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's interesting.
think as people listen to this, the exercise equipment, and correct me if I'm wrong here,but the way I would characterize it is it's more isometric training than it is sort of
(29:57):
isotonic training.
In other words, you're not really pushing so much through a range of motion as you arepushing against something to generate that force and that load.
But correct me if I'm wrong.
You're right.
I don't like calling it isometric exercise because people get something in their mind.
They think of like wall sits or doing planks.
(30:17):
And this one, there is a dramatic amount of force going through your bones and yourmuscles compared to like a wall sit, right?
Somebody once asked me like, well, couldn't I just do this at home, you know, push upagainst a wall?
I'm like, you could.
I mean, we don't own the science of stimulating creating osteogenesis in the body.
(30:39):
So I actually tried this once because people were asking me, so I got between two wallsand I went and did a leg press and I pushed the wall off of the studs, the studs off of
the foundation.
You create a lot of force.
Right now.
Like when I very first started osteostrong, I think I was able to do like 1300 poundsthrough my lower extremities, which I thought was amazing.
(31:01):
Yeah.
Uh, my last best was almost 3,700 pounds and, um, 10 years ago when I turned a hundred,um, I'm just kidding.
Yeah.
I'm 57, uh, or 56.
I just turned 56.
So, um, the, uh, that's pretty amazing amount of force that I could put through my body.
(31:21):
Yeah.
And I have no joint and back pain.
Um, when I started this company 12 years or 13 years ago, I had,
serious amounts of chronic pain all through my body and joints and so forth.
I got migraine headaches every other day and I felt I didn't feel good.
After about six or seven sessions, all my chronic pain was gone.
(31:42):
I had no joint, no hip, knee, back, neck pain, shoulder pain that I used to suffer fromfrom all these sports related injuries and probably a lot of inflammation from food.
Sure.
That is I got that it went away and I was like, what?
(33:43):
That's really awesome.
So the way that your model works is people, if people want to come in and try this, theygo to one of your centers and then explain to them how they get engaged.
So what was really foundationally important to me is like you could have like Jake, youknow He had invented this prototype and no one was using it and some people would our
(34:05):
businesses would buy it and would sit there and collect dust and So you could have thebest invention in the world that does the most profound thing and if no one uses it or
knows about it It's another failure.
And so what was more important to me than anything is yes, I want to be able to deliverthe results but
It would, in my mind, be a failure if people didn't use it and take advantage of it.
(34:27):
And so what people do is they come into osteostrong one day a week.
They're in a center for 12 to 20 minutes, depending on whether or not they take advantageof some of the other biohack modalities that we offer.
If they did just the osteostrong devices, they could be in and out there in less thanseven minutes.
But, know, figure 12 to 18 minutes and you're gone and you're doing that one day a week.
(34:51):
Now what we're seeing is, so you come in there, there's a technician there.
They've been trained and certified to do what we do.
It's, it's a lovely environment.
It's like, that doesn't feel like a gym at all.
That's not really the look we were going for.
And really my test was, I had a couple different tests.
One was are people going to use it and stay with it?
(35:12):
Cause in the gym industry, you know, people don't realize this in the gym industry, likelast I checked, there was about 35,000 gyms in the United States and
you're considered to have a very successful gym if on its busiest day of the month, you'dsee a third of the members.
Right?
Well, at osteostrong, we're seeing between 90 and 100 % of our members at every locationaround the world every week.
(35:35):
Our attrition is less than a third of what they see in the gym.
So I'm like, okay, that's success because people know about they understand that they wantto use it, right?
They're getting they're getting the benefit and plus some of what they came in for.
So that was to me, really the goal is like, don't just create a model and throw crapagainst the wall, create something that people will understand and use to get the benefit.
(35:59):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
So explain the four pieces of equipment for people so they get a feel for what you'retalking about.
we have that it looks a bit like gym equipment, but it's built substantially differently.
We had to really work on engineering this equipment, given the amounts of force thatpeople are to be creating on it.
So you have one that looks like a leg press, a seated leg press.
(36:23):
We call that the lower GT.
GT standing for growth trigger because the objective is to hit a level of force thattriggers your body to do the rest of the work for you building bone, muscle, ligament and
tendon tissue.
Then you have an upper GT, upper growth trigger, and that one looks a bit like a chestpress.
Then you have a core, that one specifically designed to try to strengthen not only yourcore and abdominal muscles, but your rib cage.
(36:50):
And then there is a postural, which looks like a deadlift, like you're lifting awheelbarrow.
And that one's going to strengthen your spinal column.
then it also, between the lower and the
the postural GT.
Not only does that those two together helped substantially with hip, knee and back pain,but posture is amazing.
(37:17):
We've had people come in are pretty severely kyphotic and within a couple of months,they're like 80 % standing up straight.
And then there was this, yeah, we had this one woman, she was 87 years old.
And her and her friend, their great grant, their great
their grandkids, I guess, were getting married or great grandkids.
And all they wanted to do was be able to walk down the aisle for their greatgranddaughters or grand whatever.
(37:42):
So was each of their kids, great grandkids were getting married.
And so they decided to go to osteostraight as the way to do this.
And there's a before and after picture.
I think it's on our website still.
This woman, when she started her back, had a pretty severely kyphotic.
hunched over at the shoulders just for the audience to understand.
(38:03):
You've seen people like this where they're kind of hunched over and their, that happens inthe upper, yeah, happens in the upper back and even into the neck.
Yep.
And so she was walking on a walker after about two months.
It's about eight sessions at osteostrong.
She was standing up straight and she didn't need a walker and she was able to walk downthe aisle.
(38:24):
Her and the other grand grandmother both were able to walk down the aisle.
was amazing.
Yeah, really great.
That's awesome.
I love this.
Yeah.
So, so it's a membership basis.
People basically sign up to do a session a week.
Is that the idea?
That's kind of on a monthly subscription or.
it comes in on monthly monthly subscription.
(38:46):
And then many of the centers do a results guaranteed now.
So if you're coming in there and you want to increase bone density, which is most of ourconsumers are concerned about that, they'll guarantee the result.
There's a there's a nutritional program.
And it's not like you got to go cook things, whatever it's just supplementation.
Right.
And there are there are some great supplements out there.
(39:07):
But I found is the consumer just wants something simple like Yeah.
For longevity and wellness, there's so much you can do to continually fine tune yourengine, your body to produce an outcome.
there's usually just, like if you want to move the needle, like RFK, what he's trying todo, what I'm trying to do, another, and Gary Bracka's also really good at this, like find
(39:28):
out what people will do that has the biggest impact.
And don't make it complicated.
that's one of the challenges with our industry is
you and I just keep learning about new and more really incredible things.
You just you want to shout it from the rooftops like, my gosh, this supplement, like yourmushroom, a nootropic supplement, I love it.
(39:52):
It's a great supplement.
It's like, how would I integrate that like, into an osteostrome because I don't want toconfuse the consumer.
That's the big thing is I just I don't want them to think, okay, there's so much stuff inhere and supplements, I don't know what to take.
Like you have to create a program.
that people understand and consume and gives them a massive benefit.
(40:14):
so I like, I've just tried to come down, like people to ask me, what do you do for allthis longevity stuff?
And I'm like going, if you knew how little I did and the impact it's having, you would beable to do it too.
Right.
It's like, can you do more?
Yeah.
And once you get started, you'll probably want to start geeking out on more stuff.
And that's cool.
But, foundationally, there's just a handful of things that people need to do and they'regoing to get a massive out.
(40:39):
outcome.
Yeah, no, I think that's true particularly as you're starting out as you want to make itsimple accessible and repeatable and enjoyable for that matter, which is half like you're
kind of hitting all those bases all those touch points, so what's What's next for you?
What are you thinking?
in terms of this are you Continuing to build Osseous drawing and add places or
(41:04):
Yeah, so well.
things to it or what do you what's
So I've got kind of, have my life mission goal of who I am, the purpose of my life.
I've got my osteostrong goal and goals that feed into that.
large, big idea, osteostrong goals is I want osteoporosis to give you an idea how flippingbad it is for society economically.
(41:28):
There was a meta study that came out in 2020.
that showed that the annual cost of treating just a direct cost of treating osteoporoticfractures in the United States, Canada, and Europe was between five and six and a half
trillion dollars a year.
my gosh.
it's unbelievable.
that's more than cancer and type two diabetes and heart disease combined.
(41:52):
Yeah, like, I'm like, is this even freaking possible?
Right?
I read that study like eight times, probably times in reality.
But so my goals for osteostrong are I want to virtually eliminate osteoporosis from theworld.
And the way that I do that, ultimately, will be to figure out a way to get
(42:15):
our devices in every high school around the world because bone is a very interestingmaterial in the body.
is so dense that it atrophies very slowly at about 1 % per year after the age of 30.
30 being peak bone mass for people.
And then it starts slowing down slowly and slowly over time.
And then suddenly you're breakable and weak and all these things suddenly, but over like20, 30, 40 years.
(42:40):
And
And so if I, however, I can get osteostrongs in high schools and even, even kids thataren't athletic and, know, could care less about sports and whatever, I don't really care.
I'm not interested in, changing people's lifestyle.
I just want to empower whatever lifestyle they want.
And if they just did this once a week for four years, I'm, I'm of the belief based on whatI've seen with the youth using it, that their peak bone mass would be so high by the time
(43:09):
they were 30.
that it would extend.
Protect them for the rest of their life is really...
for the rest of their lives and wouldn't be a problem and you would see far less type 2diabetes, dementia and osteoporosis.
That's my goal.
That's my longer term
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Let me ask you this.
Are there people that shouldn't be using this?
People that shouldn't do it?
(43:29):
People with, well, I'm sure there are contraindications, know, recent surgeries, you know,real high blood pressure, you know, some stuff like that.
There are few contraindications, pregnancy, like if you're in your third trimester youprobably shouldn't be doing this.
What about things like any kind of scoliosis or prior fracture or hip or kneereplacements?
(43:51):
I'm sure people are wondering, is there something that I have that would keep me fromdoing this?
I can almost imagine quite honestly if you did have a knee replacement that once you gotthrough the acute healing phase, this would actually help you lock that knee in.
hip and knee replacement surgeries, osteostraight actually helps them because if you thinkabout the way a prosthetic attaches to the bone, it's attaching into the inside of the
(44:17):
bone or the trabecular bone, which is usually weak as well.
That's right.
The doctor's going to screw through that.
And when the doctor says weak bone they're attaching to, guess what?
They're going to be replacing that hip and knee again in the future.
And so what osteostrong does, and we just proved this with another study, the Swedishstudy and the Greek study actually both looked at trabecular bone and cortical bone
(44:41):
trabecular is the inside cortical is the outside.
And both of those material increased in density.
It's a great precursor to a hyponase where you replace the surgery or prehabilitation.
then you could do it afterwards and it will strengthen the bone around the joint.
Scoliosis, yes, depending on how severe the scoliosis is, so it's mild to medium.
(45:04):
You could do it, my middle son had scoliosis and it straightened out his back.
So I've seen that happen many times, different nerve types of pain, sciatic nerve, peoplehave to report that going away all the time.
And so unmedicated hypertension, untreated hernia,
(45:29):
know, osteo imperfecta, they can do it, but they just won't give them a result.
That's right.
Or have a have a hard time building bone from a genetic perspective.
How do you ask your Genesis imperfect?
Are these people have really very fragile bones?
They can break a bone basically stepping off the stair, you know, kind of thing.
Right.
That's right.
(45:50):
Um, yeah, that makes sense.
Um, that there would be some contraindications, but the interesting thing is that, um, Iwould say that even people that have had a joint problem, a hip replaced, uh, back
surgery, um, that's not a contraindication.
quite honestly.
Again, once you're past the acute healing phase, so to speak,
if people are afraid or they just don't know that you push or pull on the machines as hardas you comfortably can, and if people have concern, then just accelerate into the force
(46:25):
very slowly and listen to your body because the machine once it's in your strong range ofposition, it doesn't move, it locks into place so you're not
you're not moving weight through space.
So your joint is isolated and still.
Right.
And if you feel any discomfort, you just stop pushing.
That's all there is to it.
So I'm not going to say you can't get injured, but we've done about 13 million sessions.
(46:51):
We've had less than three dozen reported injuries.
And to give you an idea of how small the number that is, I were to walk 13 million peopleacross a mall parking lot.
would have more than 36 injuries.
I'm just walking.
Yeah, so mean, it's probably safer than walking.
Yeah.
No, it's exciting work that you're doing.
(47:11):
love the way you've orchestrated it.
I like the way you're marketing it.
like the way you're keeping it simple, showing benefit.
Yeah, congratulations.
a lot of people try to get me to be what we aren't.
know, everybody wants me to go for the athletic performance.
And I'm like, we will, you know, we do have athletes that discovered us, but athletesdon't like talking about osteo strong and the benefits.
(47:36):
Yeah.
Because it's like a secret weapon, you can go out there and do this for a few minutes aweek, and your athletic performance is going to go through the roof.
Yeah, but, but I'm like, oh, and there's not that many athletes, they're very ficklebunch, they're very tribal in what they do.
And
very binary in their thought process.
find that there's a lot of athletes that aren't terribly open-minded.
(47:57):
It's like they've figured out six things and this is what they stick with.
There are some that are different, but it can get a little bit that way, little inbred inthe thinking.
Yeah, it's just a well, there's the there, there, like, it's like, cyclists will followcertain cyclers, and then they all emulate what that person's doing.
Right.
And same with every sport, you know, everybody's following somebody who's got it figuredout his winning gold medal.
(48:21):
So I want to do it.
That guy does.
And no judgment, right?
Like I was no, I was, I'm athletic, but I'm not a professional athlete.
So, you know, there's a whole lot of other people out there that probably need to ask youstrong more than an athlete.
Right.
getting another gold medal.
Very cool.
Well, it's really been a pleasure chatting with you.
(48:42):
think, again, congratulations on what you're doing.
I really appreciate it.
You've made such an impact.
Where's your where's your clinic by the way?
You are okay.
Yeah, for some reason I was thinking you're on the East Coast
Yeah, no, we're in Dallas, Texas and yeah, we have, we have plans to expand and do a bunchof stuff.
(49:02):
We could talk about that offline actually here, but yeah, we're in Los Colinas.
I don't know if you know the Dallas area, but.
Pretty well.
I'm originally from Houston, but I've been to Dallas probably 70 times.
I live in a ranch just east of Nashville.
(49:23):
okay.
Got it.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I know that area is pretty, pretty there in the mountains.
So not that far East.
We're more hills.
mountains don't hit until you get to eat pretty far East Tennessee.
Okay, got it.
So, well, the hills are pretty there too.
Yeah, I like hills.
I like hills and mountains.
So I'm good either way.
Yeah.
(49:43):
Beautiful.
Well, Kyle, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us.
I really enjoyed the conversation.
Thank you.
Dr.
Gladden, thank you.
I appreciate you.
Welcome everybody.
Today I'm going to be joined by Kyle Zagradsky.
It's a name that rolls off my tongue pretty easily.
Kyle's been working with a company that we have a lot of admiration for called Osseostron.
And as you know, going through life, a lot of people will lose bone density.
(01:39):
They're on a mission to actually reverse that for people.
So Kyle, welcome to the Glad Longevity Podcast.
Go ahead and I appreciate it.
Excited to be here.
Yeah, absolutely.
So tell us a little bit about how you ended up at Osteostraun because what I'm guessing iswhen you were five years old, you weren't thinking to yourself, gosh, I'd like to grow up
(01:59):
and be focused on bone density.
No, not when I was five.
When I was 16, I had this realization that life was just really a flash in the pan.
wasn't really a long time in the grand scheme of creation.
Sure.
And and I just had a heartfelt prayer to God where I said, you know, I wanted I wanted tohave a life of meaning and impact and do amazing things with what he had given me.
(02:27):
And so
He revealed to me, says, you have a lot of fear, fear is your compass.
And that's always been my, really the thing that's drawn me.
just beyond overcoming fears and so forth, I always had this just intense desire to helppeople or to make things better.
It's always been kind of my driving question.
(02:48):
How do I make this better?
How do I help people?
How do I shine God's light in this situation?
It's interesting using fear as a compass.
Tell us a little bit more about that.
Not everybody has fear as a compass.
Some people have fear as an anti-compass, so to speak, but some people could use it aseither a tractant or a repellent or there's lots of different ways to think about that.
(03:09):
How does that work?
Yeah, so it's a good question.
And I think I think it should be everybody's sort of guiding principle.
You know, I've got a couple different life foundational life principles that I go by.
In fact, I was speaking to my youngest son who's now 16.
And he's homeschooled now, but he wanted to finish out, or he's considering finishing outthe last two years in public high school is where he wants to have that experience.
(03:33):
And he's been thinking about that for a while.
And I said, Look, so I said, I said, your dad, I said, I'm a
I'm a I'm a Titan.
And I said it's not because I'm anything special.
There's always somebody smarter than me, more athletic, better looking funnier, thoughthat's hard to do.
But she said the thing that really differentiates me from a lot of people that I work withand know is that, you know, I overcome my fears and I make decisions on imperfect,
(04:05):
imperfect information or impartial information just because there's not
You can't know everything and you have to make a decision.
So the people that are willing to make a decision on imperfect or impartial informationand step into their fear are the people that usually accomplish amazing things in the
world.
So I said, go to high school, don't go to high school.
(04:26):
The choice is yours.
I don't judge your decision either way, but don't let it be.
imperfect or impartial information or fear that keeps you making from making that decisiongo have the experience just do things right yeah
think fear is a really interesting teacher in a lot of ways.
You know, when I think about fear in my own life, when I think about my own life, I relateto people that I think maybe one of the biggest, and there is a number of these, but
(04:53):
certainly in the top five, is courage.
It takes courage, actually, to live the full expression of your life, right?
To live an authentic life, to where you really are, the true expression of who you're hereto be, let's say.
And that takes a lot of courage, which means basically it's a flip side of the coin onfear.
And when you think about fear, when I think about fear, one of the things for me is tounderstand, okay, I'm feeling fearful.
(05:16):
Why am I feeling fearful?
What's, what's, what's making me feel fearful about this?
Is there anything to fear feel full about?
Right.
And that whole process becomes such a personal growth process.
If, if you're listening to this and you're bumping into something around fear, I thinkdeconstructing
the whole scenario to actually understand, you know, what's going on?
(05:37):
Why does fear even exist here and what is it and what's my contribution to it?
What's my mental construct that's maybe holding something out there that maybe isn't evennecessarily true, you know, maybe.
So when you when you kind of attack fear or tackle fear to deconstruct it, understand itand kind of tame it at the same time that you're leveraging courage to go forward, you can
(05:59):
make to your point, you can make tremendous progress instead of being, you know,
held up.
It's huge.
Everybody I think the first thing to do is everybody deals with fear of all type.
I think the people that put on a front that they're not afraid of anything and whateverthey're just that that's just a front to look good.
Those people always look amazing on social media and so forth and courage doesn't existwithout fear.
(06:24):
Right.
It wouldn't be courageous if you weren't fearful to begin with.
If you're not taking action on something is because you're afraid.
And so I think that just getting like you said, you know, look at yourself from fromwhence does this come and why do I feel it?
That's a good thing to know.
But if you could identify it, do it anyway.
Yeah.
The other thing on the other on the other side of fear is either love or nothing.
(06:47):
I mean, before I started osteostrong, I remember I had the idea, I was excited about theidea.
told a couple of people about the idea.
They were excited about the idea.
And then a few days went by and I wasn't taking action on the things that I needed to doto start the idea.
And I'm like, why am I not taking action on this idea that I and everybody else loves?
(07:09):
And I stopped and I'm like, because I'm afraid I know how hard it's going to be to createan industry to educate the consumer.
There were so many unknowns and I'm like, crap.
I just sort of, I'm kind like that Jim Carrey in that movie, Yes Man, where Tony Robbinswent and said,
basically put his hand on his head and said, you're gonna say yes to everything.
(07:30):
And I believe that was the movie he did that.
anyway, yeah.
So I just said, you know, if it scares you, you must it just sort of became this deal likeyou have to do it.
So when I was younger, I was afraid of public speaking.
So I took a speech class in high school, I got my auctioneers license and
And I was like, that could be the most the scariest thing that I could possibly imaginedoing would be doing an ocknearing.
(07:56):
Yeah.
then I was afraid of flying.
So I, I went got my pilot's license.
was terrified.
But you just you just do it.
I think the I think the the chronic fears, not the acute fears, the ones you spiders,heights, snakes, whatever, those are things are just like the big acute fears, like people
(08:16):
know they have those.
I think it's the chronic fears that are probably the most inhibiting.
Yeah, debilitating.
They're ones that keep you from living life.
That's right.
That's right.
I think people say no to things all the time out of fear.
Quite honestly, when in their heart they would love to say yes, but they're too fearful tosay yes, right?
Whether it's into a relationship, whether it's into a project, whether it's into a careerchange or whatever it is.
(08:43):
loss, fear of never fear of being hurt, fear of being judged, fear of not being goodenough.
It's all those things.
Or some of those things.
Yeah, one of the things that's helped me here and I don't know if this will resonate withyou or not, but Is the the idea of non-attachment So if you basically go into something
(09:05):
and you're asking yourself, why am I fearful about this?
Well, it's typically for me It's because I'm attached to an idea of what happens if itworks out differently than what I'm hoping for or thinking about right it's like and so
you get attached to a particular outcome and then
If that feels in jeopardy, then you become fearful.
Then it's like, I don't want to risk that.
So I won't do it at all.
(09:29):
I was just going to say, but I've kind of gotten to this place of not identifying withwhat I'm doing.
I identify as Jeff Gladden, this spiritual creature that's here on planet Earth and ahuman body to actually, you know, from a loving place, create joy.
That's actually what I'm here to do.
(09:50):
But you and I, you and I should hang out.
I'm the same way.
think, I think you'd even take a step further.
call it living life with an open hand.
and it's not holding onto anything, everything that's in your life from your spouse toyour children, to your home, to your investments, to your business and whatever they,
(10:10):
they're not really yours.
And it doesn't really matter.
That's right.
None of those things really matter.
you, I think one of the things, some coaching I was giving somebody one time, said, youreally want to understand what matters.
Go to YouTube and there's, there's interviews of people who live to be a hundred yearsold.
And they always ask, you know, what mattered most.
Right.
And none of them, no one's going to remember you for any of like 99.9 % of the stuff thatyou're working on or doing.
(10:37):
And when you understand that, why in the hell are you doing it?
and
identify with it.
I mean, it's one thing to work on it because it's you see it as an opportunity or a visionit, but to be attached to it and to identify with it, I think creates all kinds of
problems.
It does.
Well, it just stifles you and keeps you from taking action.
And I was telling somebody, said, who cares if you lose everything?
(11:01):
Who really cares?
Like, Ogman Dino wrote, the greatest salesman in the world became a best seller.
And he wrote that when he was homeless, right?
I he didn't have the inspiration for it until he was homeless.
So sometimes you just have to have things taken away from you to give you perspective.
So I'm like, okay, take it away from yourself first.
Yeah.
(11:22):
And then you'll get the perspective without having to go through the pain and suffering ofloss less and never.
Yeah, I think this right.
It's a fear of loss in many respects.
And there's also a fear of success.
A lot of people have sort of a chronic sort of low lying fear of success.
What's that going to do to me?
Right.
So but I think the answer in both cases, whether it's fear of loss or fear of success, isnot being attached to it, not being identified with it.
(11:49):
Even the success, just don't even be attached to that.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, I agree.
Beautiful.
Yeah, I think of myself with the same thing as I'm just a spiritual being.
This is just a stepping stone in eternity.
Yeah.
And not just have fun with it, have impact, love, love and shine light as much as youpossibly can.
(12:12):
And and always leave people better than you found them even though even the person at thegrocery store just always leaves somebody with a smile on their face That's that's all you
if that's the only impact you could have that day do it
Absolutely.
Yeah.
No, that's great.
Well, well, that was a good podcast.
should just conclude right now.
What are we here to talk about?
(12:34):
Well, I think we're here to talk about bones and strong bones, right?
So I think everybody listening understands that strong bones are important for health andthey're strong because when you fall down, you don't break them, right?
That's one.
way that they're important.
Another is posture.
Another is some other things, but let's talk about bones in particular.
(12:56):
And I have my own take on some stuff that I'll share with you, but, how did you pick bonesand how did you get into that?
Did you have some sort of personal history with it or your mom had asked your penia orsomething?
I mean, is there anything like that or
A little bit of that, but that wasn't really the motivation.
So I had a, I'm what you'd call a bootstrap entrepreneur, which is to say that I get anidea, I self-fund it and I go.
(13:19):
Right.
I've started to run many companies.
My companies have generated well over $200 million in this kind of stuff, right?
Like there's a lot, there's, are guys out there that do this stuff and that I'm not sayingthat to impress you, except that I don't get out of bed in the morning to do things unless
I understand its place in the world and the impact it will have.
(13:40):
And so I'd been started and ran a software company for a long time and I was bored withit.
I was so bored.
I love what we created.
It's great.
It's a great tool.
Still used.
I started that company in 1997, but I was like, I gotta do something and I want to dosomething meaningful.
I thought about starting a gym chain because my wife and I had owned several gyms beforeand I thought, yeah, maybe I'd do that.
(14:02):
Cause I don't like helping people, but I thought, there's just not a lot of innovation andfitness.
And I just not excited about creating another brand that's kind of doing the same thing,moving weight through space or getting maintaining heart rate and all this stuff.
It's all important.
It's good stuff.
There just wasn't a lot of innovation.
I didn't think I was going to be able to bring anything new to it.
(14:23):
at that point I stumbled on Dr.
Jake, which he was giving a talk on his pro earlier prototype of what we have now at osteostrong.
And I was listening to him and I thought,
I experienced two emotions simultaneously, which is hard to do these two particularmotions, which is love and fear.
I loved what he created.
(14:44):
I was just amazed by it.
I thought this is probably one of the most profound longevity.
Athletic performance, you know, inventions in the history of the world.
but it works so differently that no one's going to believe it.
And if I don't do something about it, this is going to end up in the dustbin of history.
(15:06):
So I took him out to dinner and I said, how many of these prototypes have you sold?
He's like about 10 or 12.
And I said, my guess is that in 30 days, nobody's using it.
And he's like, what do you read my F and emails?
And I said, no, they don't understand it.
No one's going to believe that, you know, I sat there, I saw you take 20 people throughit.
(15:26):
takes about five or six minutes to do a session.
But within that session, you're only doing about 60 seconds of effort.
No one's going to believe that 60 seconds of effort one day a week is delivering whateverresult this is delivering.
They're going to attribute that success to anything.
Right.
Right.
Hey, I started rubbing aloe vera on my joints or whatever like snake oil thing they'vebeen taught.
(15:48):
They'll attribute to anything.
And I said, this is going to require education.
It is so different than anything anybody's done.
It doesn't it doesn't even deserve to it shouldn't even be in a gym should be on a shelfall by itself.
You know, right.
So let's just stop there for one quick second.
me interrupt you because we're talking about equipment and osteoestrongy.
(16:09):
Let's just describe that for the listening audience exactly what we're talking about.
What is osteoestrongy?
What does that equipment look like and how is it used?
To your to your kind of a segue into that bone is very important.
It's not just about fracture and fracture prevention Bone density is linked to type 2diabetes dementia your immune system athletic performance all those things joint and back
(16:35):
pain Posture balance everything it's all tied to bone density in fact I would state thatwith all the cool longevity stuff that you and I are both seeing happen in our space
people will live longer, they will prevent cancer and so forth and so on.
But if they're not doing something to maintain their bone density, that will be the thingthat leads to their demise because of like a hip fracture over the age of 65 has a higher
(17:02):
mortality rate, a two year mortality rate than breast cancer, substantially higher.
So a broken front bone, but how does this work exactly?
Well,
There are four different devices that we use at osteostraun each device.
You can like I'm wearing a sweater because it's cold outside today.
(17:22):
And I can own a pair of jeans and boots and I can go and do an osteostraun session as I'mdressed right now because because it's such an abbreviated amount of time.
I'm not going to break a sweat.
I'm not going to get fatigued and I'm not going to get sore the next day.
But the what
these devices do is what's unique.
They look a bit like gym equipment actually, but they function much more differently.
(17:46):
And it's based upon the foundational idea was Wolf's Law.
So Dr.
Julius Wolf was this German doctor in the 1890s.
And he did this research that concluded that by putting enough pressure on themusculoskeletal system to cause the bones to flex would cause them to
(18:06):
developed stronger bones, more dense bones.
As you it's Wolf's Law.
Still taught in medical schools and chiropractors to this day.
But there was one question that his research did not answer and it was key, which is howmuch pressure is needed to trigger this effect of osteogenesis or the development of new
bone?
(18:27):
And there was another researcher that came along in 2012 out of Bristol, United Kingdom,and he sought to answer that question.
What is the minimum dose response to trigger osteogenesis?
It was very clever.
And so what he did was he took these accelerometers, he attached them to over 700subjects, then he measured the amount of impact force that they received and expressed it
(18:47):
in terms of multiples of their own body weight.
Which I thought was good because you could have a 200 pound person and a 100 pound personwho stand to reason that the 200 pound person would require more force than the 100 pound
person so multiples the body weight was a great way to express it and What he found was isthe only subjects in the study that experienced osteogenesis or the development of new
(19:08):
bone or ones that experienced a minimum of 4.2 multiples of their own body weight, whichis a substantial amount of force in fact sitting here
Anybody listening this, you know, like, just take your own body weight, keep it simple,multiply it times four.
You're not going to put that much weight under a weight stack at the gym.
It's extremely dangerous to do it.
(19:30):
Very few people can do such a thing.
And so how do you do it?
Well, impact is the other way.
In fact, you see this with certain types of athletes that get high impact versus athletesthat get low impact, swimming, cycling, low impact.
fact, swimmers and cyclists will often get osteoporosis.
Sprinters far less but gymnasts they are pound for pound the strongest athletes in theworld because Not because they're working out harder than any other athletes that when
(19:59):
they go spinning through the air and they hit the ground they're generating many multiplesof their body weight there go triggering osteogenesis and Developing new bone and when you
get stronger bones and people don't realize this about athletic performance, but yourcentral nervous system
is will never allow your muscles to create more force than what your bones can handle.
(20:21):
And so your athletic performance limitation is in fact, in many cases, the strength ofyour bones.
And by strengthening your bones, you're raising the threshold by which your centralnervous system will allow you to perform better athletically.
So it's like, okay, how in the world do we create machines that could create this muchforce?
(20:41):
So you imagine that she got four different devices, each one is focusing on a differentarea of your body.
And what Dr.
Jaques figured out, and he was inspired because his mom actually had an osteoporosisdiagnosis in her mid seventies, and she didn't want to take the medication.
And he's like, okay, and he came to the conclusion, says, osteoporosis is not really evena disease, it's just a deconditioning of bone.
(21:06):
How do we, anything that could be deconditioned could be reconditioned.
But when he realized it was high impact force that would recondition bone, it's notsomething you could put a 75 year old through.
So then he read another study out of Brazil that found that like, say for instance, you'redoing a bench press at the apex of your press before your, your arms lock out, you're able
(21:27):
to, you're able to produce seven times more force than you were if when the bar is on yourchest.
And he's like, well,
do seven times more force and you should be able to self-generate that level of force ifyou could lock a person in that position.
So the devices are designed to put people in their biomechanically strongest range ofmotion for a given exercise and then it will lock into place and then the user or the
(21:56):
member in our case, Van Osteostrong will self-impose force for about 10 or 15 seconds.
in their strongest range of motion.
And they're looking at a screen that is giving them real time feedback of how much forcethey're creating.
They could see they're doing many multiples of their body weight.
And what's cool is not only does it take a short period of time, the amount of force thatyou could actually generate would shock you.
(22:22):
so, and then the amount of force that you're able to generate just continues to go up andup up and up and up over time.
And so we have, we looked at the data from 500 people with an average age of 52 over fouryears, and they were able to increase the amount of force that they did across all four
machines on average by 290%.
(22:44):
The amount of force they're creating, but so many other things are happening when you dothat.
You're not just creating force.
on the bones, but physical strength radically increases, balance and agility radicallyincreases.
And so we've seen this with, we've had athletes winning gold medals and setting recordsshortly after using osteostrong.
(23:04):
But we also see people in their eighties and nineties who came into osteostrong withosteoporosis.
And after a couple of years, they don't, they're either osteopenia or osteoporosis.
In fact, there was a study that just published out of Sweden.
That was the Greek study.
The Greek study where, no, it was the Swedish study, where it was 192 participants, halfof them were in the control group, the osteostrom group, the average T-score showed that
(23:34):
the subjects were on average all on the verge of having osteoporosis, known as osteopenia.
And then after the nine-month study, on average, they'd all moved out of osteopenia intonormal bone.
Yeah, I love that.
It's, yeah, it's really interesting.
Um, it's an interesting concept.
There's a real interesting interplay between the nervous system and the muscles and thebone.
(23:56):
And for me, when I think about working out, I've kind of come to realize that it's reallyon some level, it's really all about the nervous system in the sense that the nervous
system is controlling how much you can move, where you move and that sort of thing.
You can then enable your, you can give your, uh, nervous system more ammunition.
If you will, by strengthening the bones, right?
(24:17):
Which now gives them more, by strengthening your muscles, your, your nervous system isgoing to shut down your muscles or shut down your activity based on if it senses that it's
overtaxing, uh, the physical infrastructure, the muscle, the bone, the tendon, theligament, you know, all the different things that are involved there.
And, and for us, as we age, what we find is that many people's nervous systems are out oftune.
(24:42):
Like for us, it's like.
When we're a hundred years old, we want to be fast, agile, strong, quick, balanced, right?
With great cardiovascular capacity, reserve, flexibility and strong bones, of course.
We want to be able to run down the stairs.
We want to be able to, you know, dance with our eyes closed.
We want to be able to do all these things.
And what we find is that in order to do that, as we age, it's so important to train thenervous system to do that.
(25:07):
Like we do figure eights backwards with our eyes closed and we do lots of balance trainingand things like that.
To corroborate what you're saying, I love the interplay between the nervous system andbone density also.
And I think most people don't understand that bones can actually be rebuilt and that itcan be done so quickly in a sense.
(25:30):
It's really a matter of minutes.
So I think it's super exciting what you're doing.
I'll just say in our practice, we also do other things.
We measure everybody on DEXA scans.
So we see.
what's happening, where it's happening throughout their skeletal system.
We typically see that the neck of the femur or the hip at the hip joint is kind of theweakest point for most people.
(25:53):
and of the most devastating and costly.
Exactly.
you fall, that's where you're to break your hip.
And so, yeah, and it has massive implications for recovery, health and everything else.
There are other things that factor into this, too.
You know, we're measuring everybody's hormone levels and optimizing that optimizingthyroid, optimizing nutrients and the things that you need to make collagen.
(26:18):
And then there are supplements that can shut down the osteoclasts that are destroying boneand you can actually up
regulate the osteoblasts, right, that are making bone.
So you can, there's a whole synergy of things that can go together here to build bone.
And we've also found that bone is nicely built when you can optimize sexual hormones andgrowth hormone.
(26:40):
So using growth hormone, releasing peptides and things like testosterone and estrogen, wecan get really nice effects for people in terms of, you know, rebuilding bone.
And when you add in osteostrong,
my gosh, I mean, it's like night and day.
So what osteostrong is essentially gonna do is it's gonna create an adaptive response thatyour body is going to start building bone, muscle, ligament and tendon density as well as
(27:11):
neurological, I guess the neurological connection between the brain and the muscles in aunique way.
If you're lacking in hormone optimization or nutrition or both,
That that could definitely slow down your results.
And so we we we've seen when the people have proper nutrition, that that will knock outthat will get about 90 to 95 % of the people will see a result.
(27:38):
That's the other 4.9 % hormone optimization.
And then there's always gonna be like a half a percent or less that have some other
autoimmune disease or cancer or some type of information that's inhibiting their result.
But a lot of our centers will actually guarantee the results if they're taking thecondition along with doing osteostrong.
(28:02):
Yeah.
No, it's amazing.
So, so when people are in your centers and they're doing their workouts, do they start,being able to, you talked about 4.2 times your body weight.
I would suspect a lot of people when they first go in there can't generate 4.2 times theirbody weight.
Okay, well to be more specific, the deer study that talked about the 4.2 that was reallyjust through the hip joint.
(28:28):
There hasn't been a study determining how much force would need, for instance, the wristbones or the clavicle.
When DEXA scans are done, they're really only looking at the femoral neck of the hip andthe lumbar region of the spine.
The main reason is those are the most costly and devastating fractures for elderly.
(28:51):
But Dexa scans aren't really looking at bone density and other parts of your body.
they didn't do a study to see, what does it take to build bone density in your wrist, yourclavicle or your ankles and these kinds of things.
Osteostra is going to do the whole gamut, even though we're looking at other stuff.
And the Jason Deere study on the 4.2 was
(29:14):
was specifically looking at pressure needed to build hip bone.
And so we don't know, we can estimate, we've had different stuff done, but to answer toyour question, you'd be surprised.
Most people are able to generate 4.2 multiples body weight through their hips, even intheir 70s and 80s.
(29:37):
And if they aren't, it usually takes a month or two and then they are.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's interesting.
think as people listen to this, the exercise equipment, and correct me if I'm wrong here,but the way I would characterize it is it's more isometric training than it is sort of
(29:57):
isotonic training.
In other words, you're not really pushing so much through a range of motion as you arepushing against something to generate that force and that load.
But correct me if I'm wrong.
You're right.
I don't like calling it isometric exercise because people get something in their mind.
They think of like wall sits or doing planks.
(30:17):
And this one, there is a dramatic amount of force going through your bones and yourmuscles compared to like a wall sit, right?
Somebody once asked me like, well, couldn't I just do this at home, you know, push upagainst a wall?
I'm like, you could.
I mean, we don't own the science of stimulating creating osteogenesis in the body.
(30:39):
So I actually tried this once because people were asking me, so I got between two wallsand I went and did a leg press and I pushed the wall off of the studs, the studs off of
the foundation.
You create a lot of force.
Right now.
Like when I very first started osteostrong, I think I was able to do like 1300 poundsthrough my lower extremities, which I thought was amazing.
(31:01):
Yeah.
Uh, my last best was almost 3,700 pounds and, um, 10 years ago when I turned a hundred,um, I'm just kidding.
Yeah.
I'm 57, uh, or 56.
I just turned 56.
So, um, the, uh, that's pretty amazing amount of force that I could put through my body.
(31:21):
Yeah.
And I have no joint and back pain.
Um, when I started this company 12 years or 13 years ago, I had,
serious amounts of chronic pain all through my body and joints and so forth.
I got migraine headaches every other day and I felt I didn't feel good.
After about six or seven sessions, all my chronic pain was gone.
(31:42):
I had no joint, no hip, knee, back, neck pain, shoulder pain that I used to suffer fromfrom all these sports related injuries and probably a lot of inflammation from food.
Sure.
That is I got that it went away and I was like, what?
(33:43):
That's really awesome.
So the way that your model works is people, if people want to come in and try this, theygo to one of your centers and then explain to them how they get engaged.
So what was really foundationally important to me is like you could have like Jake, youknow He had invented this prototype and no one was using it and some people would our
(34:05):
businesses would buy it and would sit there and collect dust and So you could have thebest invention in the world that does the most profound thing and if no one uses it or
knows about it It's another failure.
And so what was more important to me than anything is yes, I want to be able to deliverthe results but
It would, in my mind, be a failure if people didn't use it and take advantage of it.
(34:27):
And so what people do is they come into osteostrong one day a week.
They're in a center for 12 to 20 minutes, depending on whether or not they take advantageof some of the other biohack modalities that we offer.
If they did just the osteostrong devices, they could be in and out there in less thanseven minutes.
But, know, figure 12 to 18 minutes and you're gone and you're doing that one day a week.
(34:51):
Now what we're seeing is, so you come in there, there's a technician there.
They've been trained and certified to do what we do.
It's, it's a lovely environment.
It's like, that doesn't feel like a gym at all.
That's not really the look we were going for.
And really my test was, I had a couple different tests.
One was are people going to use it and stay with it?
(35:12):
Cause in the gym industry, you know, people don't realize this in the gym industry, likelast I checked, there was about 35,000 gyms in the United States and
you're considered to have a very successful gym if on its busiest day of the month, you'dsee a third of the members.
Right?
Well, at osteostrong, we're seeing between 90 and 100 % of our members at every locationaround the world every week.
(35:35):
Our attrition is less than a third of what they see in the gym.
So I'm like, okay, that's success because people know about they understand that they wantto use it, right?
They're getting they're getting the benefit and plus some of what they came in for.
So that was to me, really the goal is like, don't just create a model and throw crapagainst the wall, create something that people will understand and use to get the benefit.
(35:59):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
So explain the four pieces of equipment for people so they get a feel for what you'retalking about.
we have that it looks a bit like gym equipment, but it's built substantially differently.
We had to really work on engineering this equipment, given the amounts of force thatpeople are to be creating on it.
So you have one that looks like a leg press, a seated leg press.
(36:23):
We call that the lower GT.
GT standing for growth trigger because the objective is to hit a level of force thattriggers your body to do the rest of the work for you building bone, muscle, ligament and
tendon tissue.
Then you have an upper GT, upper growth trigger, and that one looks a bit like a chestpress.
Then you have a core, that one specifically designed to try to strengthen not only yourcore and abdominal muscles, but your rib cage.
(36:50):
And then there is a postural, which looks like a deadlift, like you're lifting awheelbarrow.
And that one's going to strengthen your spinal column.
then it also, between the lower and the
the postural GT.
Not only does that those two together helped substantially with hip, knee and back pain,but posture is amazing.
(37:17):
We've had people come in are pretty severely kyphotic and within a couple of months,they're like 80 % standing up straight.
And then there was this, yeah, we had this one woman, she was 87 years old.
And her and her friend, their great grant, their great
their grandkids, I guess, were getting married or great grandkids.
And all they wanted to do was be able to walk down the aisle for their greatgranddaughters or grand whatever.
(37:42):
So was each of their kids, great grandkids were getting married.
And so they decided to go to osteostraight as the way to do this.
And there's a before and after picture.
I think it's on our website still.
This woman, when she started her back, had a pretty severely kyphotic.
hunched over at the shoulders just for the audience to understand.
(38:03):
You've seen people like this where they're kind of hunched over and their, that happens inthe upper, yeah, happens in the upper back and even into the neck.
Yep.
And so she was walking on a walker after about two months.
It's about eight sessions at osteostrong.
She was standing up straight and she didn't need a walker and she was able to walk downthe aisle.
(38:24):
Her and the other grand grandmother both were able to walk down the aisle.
was amazing.
Yeah, really great.
That's awesome.
I love this.
Yeah.
So, so it's a membership basis.
People basically sign up to do a session a week.
Is that the idea?
That's kind of on a monthly subscription or.
it comes in on monthly monthly subscription.
(38:46):
And then many of the centers do a results guaranteed now.
So if you're coming in there and you want to increase bone density, which is most of ourconsumers are concerned about that, they'll guarantee the result.
There's a there's a nutritional program.
And it's not like you got to go cook things, whatever it's just supplementation.
Right.
And there are there are some great supplements out there.
(39:07):
But I found is the consumer just wants something simple like Yeah.
For longevity and wellness, there's so much you can do to continually fine tune yourengine, your body to produce an outcome.
there's usually just, like if you want to move the needle, like RFK, what he's trying todo, what I'm trying to do, another, and Gary Bracka's also really good at this, like find
(39:28):
out what people will do that has the biggest impact.
And don't make it complicated.
that's one of the challenges with our industry is
you and I just keep learning about new and more really incredible things.
You just you want to shout it from the rooftops like, my gosh, this supplement, like yourmushroom, a nootropic supplement, I love it.
(39:52):
It's a great supplement.
It's like, how would I integrate that like, into an osteostrome because I don't want toconfuse the consumer.
That's the big thing is I just I don't want them to think, okay, there's so much stuff inhere and supplements, I don't know what to take.
Like you have to create a program.
that people understand and consume and gives them a massive benefit.
(40:14):
so I like, I've just tried to come down, like people to ask me, what do you do for allthis longevity stuff?
And I'm like going, if you knew how little I did and the impact it's having, you would beable to do it too.
Right.
It's like, can you do more?
Yeah.
And once you get started, you'll probably want to start geeking out on more stuff.
And that's cool.
But, foundationally, there's just a handful of things that people need to do and they'regoing to get a massive out.
(40:39):
outcome.
Yeah, no, I think that's true particularly as you're starting out as you want to make itsimple accessible and repeatable and enjoyable for that matter, which is half like you're
kind of hitting all those bases all those touch points, so what's What's next for you?
What are you thinking?
in terms of this are you Continuing to build Osseous drawing and add places or
(41:04):
Yeah, so well.
things to it or what do you what's
So I've got kind of, have my life mission goal of who I am, the purpose of my life.
I've got my osteostrong goal and goals that feed into that.
large, big idea, osteostrong goals is I want osteoporosis to give you an idea how flippingbad it is for society economically.
(41:28):
There was a meta study that came out in 2020.
that showed that the annual cost of treating just a direct cost of treating osteoporoticfractures in the United States, Canada, and Europe was between five and six and a half
trillion dollars a year.
my gosh.
it's unbelievable.
that's more than cancer and type two diabetes and heart disease combined.
(41:52):
Yeah, like, I'm like, is this even freaking possible?
Right?
I read that study like eight times, probably times in reality.
But so my goals for osteostrong are I want to virtually eliminate osteoporosis from theworld.
And the way that I do that, ultimately, will be to figure out a way to get
(42:15):
our devices in every high school around the world because bone is a very interestingmaterial in the body.
is so dense that it atrophies very slowly at about 1 % per year after the age of 30.
30 being peak bone mass for people.
And then it starts slowing down slowly and slowly over time.
And then suddenly you're breakable and weak and all these things suddenly, but over like20, 30, 40 years.
(42:40):
And
And so if I, however, I can get osteostrongs in high schools and even, even kids thataren't athletic and, know, could care less about sports and whatever, I don't really care.
I'm not interested in, changing people's lifestyle.
I just want to empower whatever lifestyle they want.
And if they just did this once a week for four years, I'm, I'm of the belief based on whatI've seen with the youth using it, that their peak bone mass would be so high by the time
(43:09):
they were 30.
that it would extend.
Protect them for the rest of their life is really...
for the rest of their lives and wouldn't be a problem and you would see far less type 2diabetes, dementia and osteoporosis.
That's my goal.
That's my longer term
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Let me ask you this.
Are there people that shouldn't be using this?
People that shouldn't do it?
(43:29):
People with, well, I'm sure there are contraindications, know, recent surgeries, you know,real high blood pressure, you know, some stuff like that.
There are few contraindications, pregnancy, like if you're in your third trimester youprobably shouldn't be doing this.
What about things like any kind of scoliosis or prior fracture or hip or kneereplacements?
(43:51):
I'm sure people are wondering, is there something that I have that would keep me fromdoing this?
I can almost imagine quite honestly if you did have a knee replacement that once you gotthrough the acute healing phase, this would actually help you lock that knee in.
hip and knee replacement surgeries, osteostraight actually helps them because if you thinkabout the way a prosthetic attaches to the bone, it's attaching into the inside of the
(44:17):
bone or the trabecular bone, which is usually weak as well.
That's right.
The doctor's going to screw through that.
And when the doctor says weak bone they're attaching to, guess what?
They're going to be replacing that hip and knee again in the future.
And so what osteostrong does, and we just proved this with another study, the Swedishstudy and the Greek study actually both looked at trabecular bone and cortical bone
(44:41):
trabecular is the inside cortical is the outside.
And both of those material increased in density.
It's a great precursor to a hyponase where you replace the surgery or prehabilitation.
then you could do it afterwards and it will strengthen the bone around the joint.
Scoliosis, yes, depending on how severe the scoliosis is, so it's mild to medium.
(45:04):
You could do it, my middle son had scoliosis and it straightened out his back.
So I've seen that happen many times, different nerve types of pain, sciatic nerve, peoplehave to report that going away all the time.
And so unmedicated hypertension, untreated hernia,
(45:29):
know, osteo imperfecta, they can do it, but they just won't give them a result.
That's right.
Or have a have a hard time building bone from a genetic perspective.
How do you ask your Genesis imperfect?
Are these people have really very fragile bones?
They can break a bone basically stepping off the stair, you know, kind of thing.
Right.
That's right.
(45:50):
Um, yeah, that makes sense.
Um, that there would be some contraindications, but the interesting thing is that, um, Iwould say that even people that have had a joint problem, a hip replaced, uh, back
surgery, um, that's not a contraindication.
quite honestly.
Again, once you're past the acute healing phase, so to speak,
if people are afraid or they just don't know that you push or pull on the machines as hardas you comfortably can, and if people have concern, then just accelerate into the force
(46:25):
very slowly and listen to your body because the machine once it's in your strong range ofposition, it doesn't move, it locks into place so you're not
you're not moving weight through space.
So your joint is isolated and still.
Right.
And if you feel any discomfort, you just stop pushing.
That's all there is to it.
So I'm not going to say you can't get injured, but we've done about 13 million sessions.
(46:51):
We've had less than three dozen reported injuries.
And to give you an idea of how small the number that is, I were to walk 13 million peopleacross a mall parking lot.
would have more than 36 injuries.
I'm just walking.
Yeah, so mean, it's probably safer than walking.
Yeah.
No, it's exciting work that you're doing.
(47:11):
love the way you've orchestrated it.
I like the way you're marketing it.
like the way you're keeping it simple, showing benefit.
Yeah, congratulations.
a lot of people try to get me to be what we aren't.
know, everybody wants me to go for the athletic performance.
And I'm like, we will, you know, we do have athletes that discovered us, but athletesdon't like talking about osteo strong and the benefits.
(47:36):
Yeah.
Because it's like a secret weapon, you can go out there and do this for a few minutes aweek, and your athletic performance is going to go through the roof.
Yeah, but, but I'm like, oh, and there's not that many athletes, they're very ficklebunch, they're very tribal in what they do.
And
very binary in their thought process.
find that there's a lot of athletes that aren't terribly open-minded.
(47:57):
It's like they've figured out six things and this is what they stick with.
There are some that are different, but it can get a little bit that way, little inbred inthe thinking.
Yeah, it's just a well, there's the there, there, like, it's like, cyclists will followcertain cyclers, and then they all emulate what that person's doing.
Right.
And same with every sport, you know, everybody's following somebody who's got it figuredout his winning gold medal.
(48:21):
So I want to do it.
That guy does.
And no judgment, right?
Like I was no, I was, I'm athletic, but I'm not a professional athlete.
So, you know, there's a whole lot of other people out there that probably need to ask youstrong more than an athlete.
Right.
getting another gold medal.
Very cool.
Well, it's really been a pleasure chatting with you.
(48:42):
think, again, congratulations on what you're doing.
I really appreciate it.
You've made such an impact.
Where's your where's your clinic by the way?
You are okay.
Yeah, for some reason I was thinking you're on the East Coast
Yeah, no, we're in Dallas, Texas and yeah, we have, we have plans to expand and do a bunchof stuff.
(49:02):
We could talk about that offline actually here, but yeah, we're in Los Colinas.
I don't know if you know the Dallas area, but.
Pretty well.
I'm originally from Houston, but I've been to Dallas probably 70 times.
I live in a ranch just east of Nashville.
(49:23):
okay.
Got it.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I know that area is pretty, pretty there in the mountains.
So not that far East.
We're more hills.
mountains don't hit until you get to eat pretty far East Tennessee.
Okay, got it.
So, well, the hills are pretty there too.
Yeah, I like hills.
I like hills and mountains.
So I'm good either way.
Yeah.
(49:43):
Beautiful.
Well, Kyle, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us.
I really enjoyed the conversation.
Thank you.
Dr.
Gladden, thank you.
I appreciate you.
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