September 11, 2025 • 53 mins
In this episode, Dr. Jeffrey Gladden and Dr. Emaline Brown discuss the critical role of gut health in longevity and overall well-being. They explore the Gut Zoomer test, its significance in identifying gut microbiome health, and how dietary choices impact gut health. The conversation delves into the importance of fiber, the implications of leaky gut, and the effects of alcohol on gut health. They also highlight the connection between gut health and metabolic processes, emphasizing the need for a balanced diet rich in diverse plant-based foods.
For Audience
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Takeaways
· Gut health is essential for overall health and longevity.
· Stool testing can provide insights for everyone, not just those with symptoms.
· An altered gut microbiome is a significant marker of aging.
· Dietary fiber, especially from plants, is crucial for maintaining gut health.
· Hydrochloric acid plays a vital role in digestion and gut health.
· Alcohol can negatively affect gut health and contribute to leaky gut.
· Food serves as information for our body, influencing our health.
· Maintaining a diverse diet can optimize nutrient status and gut health.
· Leaky gut can lead to systemic inflammation and various health issues.
· The gut microbiome is integral to metabolic health and hormone balance.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Gut Health and Testing
03:34 Understanding the Gut Zoomer Test
07:45 The Importance of Gut
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:27):
Welcome everybody to this edition of the Gladden Longevity podcast, where we're here toturn you into an age hacker and answer the big questions in life.
How good can we be?
How do we live well beyond 120?
How do we make a hundred and new 30?
How do we live young for a lifetime and how do we develop a 300 year old mind?
To that end, you've probably heard that gut health is central to health in general.
(00:52):
And we're fortunate to have Emmie Brown with us.
She's a naturopathic physician.
with a bachelor's of science in dietetics from Florida State and a naturopathic medicinedegree and residency from Baptiste University Clinic.
She also headed up naturopathic residency supervisor at Health-Topia Clinics in Encinitas,California.
(01:13):
And she's joined Vibrant America, a lab testing company out of San Jose, California that
has developed a lot of very innovative tests for functional medicine physicians andlongevity physicians.
And today we're going to be talking about the Gut Zoomer which is an updated version of avery comprehensive stool test.
And I think you're going to learn a lot.
(01:34):
I really enjoyed this conversation with Emmie.
Welcome everybody to this edition of the Gladden Longevity podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Jeffrey Gladden.
And I'm joined today by Emmie Brown, a naturopathic physician that works for vibrantAmerica.
Emmie, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me Dr.
Gladden.
So nice to see you.
So today we're going to get into some deep, well, we're going to get into some deep stool,I suppose.
(01:58):
Right.
So we're going to be talking about, vibrant America's gut zoomer, which is a really cooltest.
In fact, they use zoomer after all of their tests or most of their tests.
What, where did that, what's the origination of zoomer?
Why did that come into play?
Are you familiar with that or?
Well, don't quote me on this.
I've been with the company for three years.
So, you know, I was not around during the inception, but the Zoomer, I believe when we'reusing the technology, using these proprietary microarray sequencing technology devices, we
(02:31):
can zoom in on protein and peptide sequences.
So generally it's the food sensitivity tests that were given the Zoomer name.
So,
having to do with the technology, but it seems like they're running with it for some ofthese other tests, which include a lot of other methodologies included to pick up these
markers.
So Vibrant America is a really interesting company.
(02:53):
I've known them really since they kind of came on the scene and they've been incrediblyinnovative.
I've actually gone to the labs there in California outside of what is it?
San Jose, I think.
And it's incredibly high tech.
I mean, with all the mass specs and everything that they do there, it's unlike anythingI've ever seen before.
(03:16):
They're incredibly dedicated to performing ultra high quality testing, I would say.
ah and you know, when you come to stool testing, it can be a little mucky just to carrythe puns forward.
So, and a little murky, I suppose.
Do you want to update us a little bit on the Gutzoomer?
(03:37):
of maybe introduce the audience to the Gutzoomer, kind of what it is, how it's usedclinically.
Maybe we can talk about some of the updates.
Absolutely.
Yeah, happy to do so.
And I think the big take home point here is that stool testing is for everybody.
It's not just if you have diarrhea or constipation, gas, bloating, heartburn, and we canget into that uh later, but.
(04:01):
So why is it for everybody?
I mean, if somebody's listening to this, it's like, you know, I feel fine.
My my I'm regular.
I'm you everything seems good.
Why why would I want to do it?
Mm-hmm.
Because it's linked to Longevity.
We have this research.
It's amazing.
You're probably familiar with the 2023 Nature article titled, Longevity of Centenarians isReflected by the Gut Microbiome with Youth Associated Signatures.
(04:24):
But for your listeners out there.
So who doesn't want that?
Yeah, exactly.
So just so the audience understands, actually an altered gut microbiome is now one of thehallmarks of aging.
You know, the formal hallmarks of aging, things like telomere attrition or shortening,senescent cell formation, inflammation, mitochondrial dysfunction, altered intracellular
(04:45):
communication, micronutrient sensing disorders.
autophagy, proteostasis, all these things that are kind of fundamental processes in theaging process.
Now having an altered gut microbiome is right up there in terms of its level ofimportance.
So tell us a little bit about that paper from 2023.
(05:05):
What did they talk about there?
Sure.
Well, there are features measured on our stool test, the gut zoomer, that are mentionedjust very briefly if you look at the abstract.
So I quote, compared to their old adult counterparts, centenarians displayed youthassociated features in the gut microbiome characterized by an over-representation of a
(05:27):
Bacteroides-dominated enterotype, increase in species evenness, enrichment of potentiallybeneficial Bacteroidides, and depletion of potential pathobionts.
And those pathobionts, that's a new term for me.
And so these are microbes that are naturally present in the gut microbiome, but they canbecome pathogenic in certain circumstances, inflammatory cases, and nobody wants that.
(05:53):
And we're measuring these bacteroidetes and these bacteroidetes microbes.
We're measuring evenness.
yeah, okay, cool.
So usually there's a Bacteroides-Firmicutes ratio that's reported out, right?
And you want to talk a little bit about that ratio and then maybe how people can increasethe Bacteroides?
I mean, what would you do if you're low on Bacteroides, right?
(06:16):
What am I going to do?
Buy some Bacteroides?
Yeah, we all want more.
So how do we get it?
Yeah.
so that ratio, the firmicutes to the bacteroides really helps us understand if we'reeating too much refined carbohydrate, which is gonna promote more firmicutes, a lot of fat
in comparison to plant-based fiber, which is gonna feed the other side of the equation,the bacteroides.
(06:37):
Okay, so, and we think about plant-based fiber, we talk about fiber all day long, it canbe a little bit of a boring kind of...
Concept for many people.
It's not sexy and exciting, but it's imperative So and dr.
Tim Spector spoke to this also 30 different plant-based foods a week It doesn't have to bea huge amount but we're seeing this and it's such a good reminder and that's Seeds nuts
(07:01):
fruits veggies who's eating, you know beans on a regular basis and lentils Our spices so Ithink and I have to be mindful of this.
Otherwise, I'm not getting it in, know these little
Literally little things like chia seeds and flax seeds.
Mix it into whatever you can.
Salads, smoothies, oats.
And all the herbs, all the herbs are incredibly important too.
(07:22):
um Right.
Basil and rosemary and tarragon and all these herbs are incredibly, healthful for us areincredibly helpful for the arteries, which is another conversation, but, they actually,
um, promote decreased oxidation in the arterial walls, which was very cool, but it's alsoincredible for the gut.
you know, you think about dietary preferences now with a lot of people.
(07:45):
being on keto diets or high protein diets or carnivore diets or things like that.
When those people get their gut myomes tested, I suspect that they're low on bacteroides,right?
So yeah.
do see that.
You a lot more people are eating carnivore and it seems like, you know, it helps somepeople in a short period of time, depending on whatever the case is.
(08:08):
If they're looking for maybe help with energy or insulin resistance, maybe I'd be curious,you know, what you're seeing as far as cardiovascular trends and laboratory findings, but
it doesn't seem like a lot of people are sticking with it for that long, at least from mypoint of view and what I'm hearing.
Yeah, I think there are people that benefit from taking plants out.
There are some people that just don't get along with fiber for whatever reason.
(08:32):
You know, it's either bloating, diarrhea, whatever it is, and they can kind of settletheir gut down by taking plants out and going to more of a carnivore, keto, even a more,
let's call it higher fat, avocado, healthy fat kind of diet.
uh
seems to be have a salutary effect for them.
(08:54):
And then there are people that want to get lean.
And to your point, if you're only eating protein, what people don't understand is thatprotein can become carbs.
Most people think, well, if I'm eating protein, I'm building protein, but that's not true.
Egg whites, which are the perfect biological protein.
If you eat egg whites, only 49 % of that goes into building protein in your body.
(09:18):
The rest of it does get turned into carbs.
So that's an interesting thing that most people don't realize.
But I think that what we found is that when you're looking at it through the lens of howdo we make more nitric oxide to actually keep our arteries healthy, that's all plant
based, right?
It's all comes from plants that are high in dietary nitrate and that also have good fiber.
(09:40):
And so, you know, when I was making smoothies, em I would always call them chunkiesbecause you actually want to be chewing.
those plants and getting that fiber in there that your gut biome can ferment.
And yes, you may get a little bit of gas, but it's kind of worth it because you do boostthese healthy bacteria.
anyway, we're kind of in favor of a plant based diet, not a plant only diet, but certainlya plant based.
(10:07):
Yeah.
So that's how we think about it.
But, you know, there are people that benefit from something else.
And so, you know, if that's the case, so be it.
But it's interesting to see that on the Longevity front, there is no substitute for plantfiber, right?
So that's what you're saying.
So that's.
That's the poignant piece here.
And if there's digestion issues, well, there's something we can do about that.
(10:31):
If we're not tolerating these foods, if we can lightly steam or cook these fibers, supportdigestion using bitters.
I'm a fan of bitter tinctures as I'm a naturopath, so I like the botanical side of thingsas a modality.
and just eating bitter greens.
Can we start our meal with some arugula, you know, with a vinegar-based dressing?
(10:53):
It's uh something that I think is overlooked.
So what do bitters do for somebody's digestion?
Yep, so bitters stimulate digestion.
We think about hydrochloric acid, pancreatic enzymes, bile acid.
Instead of replacing the pancreatic enzymes, which of course there's a time and a placefor that intervention, but I like to start with bitters because this is going to naturally
(11:14):
stimulate what your body already knows how to do.
But sometimes we're stressed.
Oftentimes we're stressed, right?
We're working, we're eating in the car, we're eating standing in the kitchen.
and it's so, it's hard to tap into rest and digest our parasympathetic nervous system tonewhen we're always going, going, going.
So to have a little bottle of tinctures in your bag, can be a nice workaround.
(11:39):
Yeah, that's great.
Is there a brand that you like of bitters?
gosh, there are a few.
um Wise Woman Herbal's Herb Farm, it's PH Farm, a little play on words there.
Urban Moonshine, these are becoming more more readily available at health food stores.
And I always tell patients also, make it fun.
(11:59):
It's not another pill.
So you can put it in sparkling or still water, and then have a little mocktail before yourmeal.
Right?
We like mocktails, I'm sure, on this show.
Yeah.
We're not big alcohol fans.
Um, although a little bit of alcohol actually does have a Longevity benefit.
but, yeah, no, that's, that's interesting.
That's cool.
(12:20):
So then take us through the guts.
um it's a test.
It's, tell people how they collect it, how they, you know, how they, how it's processed,where they send it, all that just kind of walk us through the whole journey with the guts.
Yeah, so it is a stool test and we have a QR code in the kit.
So I think that sounds intimidating to a lot of people.
I know it did for me when I first did it as a student, as a medical student.
(12:44):
But the instructions are very easy to follow, you know, and so to not get too graphic, youknow, there is something to cover the toilet to collect the stool.
You know, there are tools provided so you can put the stool into the specimen containers.
And then it's shipped.
You know, it's kind of a funny thing.
You're shipping your stool to the lab where it's processed.
And as I said, there are several methodologies that are used to look at the microbiome andlook at inflammatory markers, look at digestion markers.
(13:12):
And so, and it's a pretty quick turnaround time.
I don't have that in front of me, but I know they're trying to get quicker and quicker.
I believe it's less than a week or so at this point.
And it's so comprehensive.
You're getting a huge report.
And you're getting infographics to teach you why this matters and where these inflammatorymarkers are coming from.
um And there are intervention strategies also displayed in this report.
(13:36):
So you don't have to be a researcher or a gut microbiome, PhD.
The report gives you so much information in terms of interpretation.
It's fantastic.
Yeah, I think talk a little bit about pathogens in the gut.
know, those are disease, disease producing organisms.
And these can be anything from parasites to different bacteria, to different viruses.
(14:00):
And what the gut zoomer does is it actually reports out on all of these.
How does it actually detect, detect those things?
Cause I don't think you're looking through a microscope to see a worm swimming around.
Right.
So.
No, no, we're not using microscopy.
We're using real-time PCR.
And so we have a 96 % sensitivity, 100 % specificity.
(14:21):
So for those listening who aren't familiar, 96 % of the time we're catching that pathogenif it's there.
So pretty darn good considering other tests on the market.
And then 100 % specificity, meaning when there's a pathogen detected, there's no doubtthat it is that pathogen.
It's not cross reacting with something else.
(14:41):
So I think about sensitivity as how good is the test at finding the needle in thehaystack?
Okay, well it might miss 4 % of the time, a false negative.
And the specificity is how good is the test at making sure that needle is not somethingelse that looks maybe like a needle, like a toothpick or something else, right?
(15:02):
So very good accuracy there and we're testing for a lot.
we're testing for not just H.
pylori, but this is a new one for me.
We're testing for non-helicobacterial pylori helicobacteria, which is kind of an umbrellaof these helicobacteria bacteria.
And they can be pathogenic, but sometimes they're not tested for.
(15:25):
think oftentimes they're not tested for.
So in a H.
pylori negative patient with gastritis,
we might want to look for this particular pathogen and it's on the new one.
So very exciting on that.
interesting.
So with H.
pylori, it can be treated with an antibiotic and it can also be treated with certainherbals.
How about for the other heliobacteria, if you find those, how are those treated?
(15:47):
Yeah.
So I haven't done a deep dive on that.
It seems like the standard of care for H.
pylori, as far as I understand, I believe it's the similar antibiotic regimen.
ah But, we don't want to miss these things.
I think that's really the big point here because you go to your primary care provider,maybe you just or you go to gastro.
Maybe you're even referred to gastro and they're testing for these routine pathogens.
(16:11):
So to have a more comprehensive list is, I think, really helpful for people struggling.
And there's some risks associated with that one too.
Malt lymphomas in particular stuck out to me for this particular pathogen.
So we want to be careful.
We're looking for these things.
If someone has ongoing gastritis, if they've got ulcers, if they've got issues, we don'twant to miss it.
(16:32):
Yeah, it's interesting.
We've been impressed that we end up finding uh parasites for people they didn't know theyhad.
So people that have traveled, people that are exposed to, I don't know, different water,different environments with different food, whatever, they can come back and have several
pathogens that they don't know about because regular stool testing will have been looking
(16:56):
through a microscope to see if they see something.
And if they don't, then they're left with symptoms, but no real understanding of why theyhave them.
being able to use the PCR, which is basically looking at genetic material, then you canactually have more certainty that you're finding it.
And then you know, certainly what you have if you do find it.
(17:18):
So we've been able to treat people and have significant improvement in their gut health.
through that.
It's interesting how many people show up with parasites.
So not everybody, but it's certainly quite common.
So tell us a little bit more about the test.
You were talking about some of the new features with the updated Gutsumer.
(17:40):
Compare the old to the new, if you would.
Sure, yes.
So we do have some additional commensals.
And so to your point, Dr.
Gladden, we have our pathogens.
These are infectious organisms, but we also have our commensal bugs, if you will, ormicrobes.
And so these are the normal inhabitants, if you will, but they can become, they can go alittle crazy.
(18:00):
They can become overgrown and that can be associated with GI upset.
We can have gas bloating.
I know a lot
listeners are probably familiar with SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
So we can look for these imbalances in the normal microbiome, if you will.
So we have added a couple of those microbes.
have one in particular that I find interesting is this Alli Stipes.
(18:24):
This is brand new to me.
So this is uh a microbe that has been associated with mood regulation.
GABA is produced by some of our microbes.
this is again, why stool testing is for everybody, right?
Who doesn't want a good mood?
Who doesn't want to live a long, healthy, happy life?
So if this is implicated in GABA and short chain fatty acid production, that's amazing.
(18:44):
And I want to see if I have enough of this particular one.
um
good one because GABA is basically the counterpoint to glutamate in the brain.
And glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter, which can make it hard for your brain toturn off at night.
And it can also kind of burn your brain out, so to speak, where you get a lot of fatigueor brain fog.
(19:08):
Whereas GABA is actually kind of a rest and restore neurotransmitter.
It calms the brain down and it's really important for sleep.
Um, so if people are struggling with sleep, if they're taking the right probiotics, andwe'll talk about that in a second to maybe boost the GABA production or the right diet to
(19:28):
boost GABA production.
Now you're, basically actually calming yourself down by having your gut working with you,right?
It's, we know that gut is kind of a second brain.
we know it makes serotonin and some other things that are actually salutary, for us interms of, being calm.
But to have more GABA, that's a big deal.
So do you want to tell us how to optimize the GABA, producing bacteria?
(19:52):
Are there insights into that or is that all?
So I don't have the specific, you know, I think getting the specific, maybe nutrientintervention for the organism, you know, that's trickier.
to again, I'm referring back to another episode you had on the gut and Longevity, Dr.
Tim Spector, that we're really in the infancy period of understanding all of this.
(20:13):
But we do know certain fibers will feed these micro uh biota.
And so we need fructooligosaccharides, we need resistant starch, we need inulin.
So overall we want a collection of these fibers and it can sound, you know, kind of likeanother language if you're not familiar with nutrition, but essentially it's eating all
(20:35):
those things we talked about before, but we need a combination.
So it's not the same, it's not your favorite fruits every single day, but buy somethingyou've never seen before like.
You Jerusalem artichokes.
I think I may have only had it once or twice in my life.
I need to buy more.
Um, we all need to kind of work on this, I think.
but it's, it's really being mindful of rotating, eating seasonally.
(20:57):
I think that helps a lot too.
Yep.
No, it's a good point.
try to, um, I adopted a habit, you know, when I heard about the fact that most of us eatabout 16 foods, we kind of rotate around 16 foods or something like that.
I was like, that's pretty narrow window.
So, and then I had heard about the need for 30 plants or 40 plants.
(21:18):
And so I started to adopt a strategy when I go to the store of trying to buy differentthings every time I go.
Um,
I love that.
I may circle back to it in three weeks or four weeks and get another whatever, apple orkale or whatever.
But trying to go into the produce section and just buy a bunch of different things.
um And that variety, you know, the gut loves variety.
(21:43):
Your body loves variety.
You're actually, your nervous system loves variety, right?
If you're doing the same thing habitually, ah you know, it starts to get boring.
So.
You can think about it.
It's a little bit about being adventurous in your eating.
And I think when you do that, it's actually a super healthy, super healthy thing to bedoing.
So, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
(22:03):
And recreate what you like eating out.
You know, I'm a big foodie myself, but when we go out, we get exposed to so many highlyprocessed oils.
And, you know, even if we're eating a salad, the salad dressing is probably using a verylow grade vegetable oil that's sold in those huge plastic jugs.
You know, that doesn't speak to its quality very much.
And so try to recreate it at home.
(22:24):
You know, try to understand the origins of that meal.
culturally, I love to explore this and then find those ingredients and there's gonna be away to cook it and make it taste good.
All you have to do is Google it, right?
Our information is just everywhere now.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Cool.
So what are the other features of the new Gutsumer that you'd like to highlight for us?
(22:46):
Sure.
there are, we've got antibodies on this test.
So for those of you who may be familiar with the older iteration, we had anti-glydenantibodies featured, but we do have an expansion and I'm just pulling it up on my end here
too.
oh
is related to wheat sensitivity.
(23:06):
Exactly.
Yes.
So could be a sign of our gluten sensitivity, maybe a non-celiac gluten sensitivity.
So we've been tested for celiac and it's negative.
Okay.
But you're still struggling with gas bloating and maybe it's extra intestinal.
So again, even if we don't have GI symptoms, we have brain fog, we have headaches, we havefatigue.
We know that there are associations between wheat and gluten related disorders andneurologic complaints and neuroinflammation.
(23:33):
So
We are looking for immune system reactivity to gluten in the stool test.
So you may not need to get a blood test.
Maybe you're looking for a pediatric patient.
And the stool test is obviously gonna be easier than getting blood in a lot of kiddos.
So I love this feature.
We're including anti-lipopolysaccharide.
This is an endotoxin that comes from gram-negative bacteria.
(23:55):
And oftentimes we have way too much gram-negative bacteria when we have functional GIdisorders.
And that's the dysbiosis.
LPS, lipopolysaccharide, that's a big one.
That drives a lot of systemic inflammation actually.
Right.
Yeah.
Interesting.
And what about leaky gut?
What are you doing with regards to leaky gut?
(24:16):
Because I think a lot of people, should talk a little bit more about SIBO, which is smallintestinal bacterial overgrowth and what I call CO, which is small intestine yeast
overgrowth.
Right.
and uh leaky gut, these are so common.
And the symptoms of it, what we see is systemic inflammation and brain fog seem to be twoof the biggest ones, um as well as bloating.
(24:40):
And you can have gas and constipation and whatever else.
But talk to us a little bit about uh leaky gut and then walk us through the SIBO and COscenario.
Sure.
So intestinal permeability or leaky gut as we tend to call it is something that can happendownstream of stress, to put it simply.
We have so many stressors.
(25:01):
We have physical stressors and this might be poor digestion.
This might be contending with toxins in the environment.
I mean, that's a whole other conversation we can touch on.
So the plastics in our environment is just to name one.
um the glyphosate right on the food that we consume.
So it's not just dietary processed foods and toxins that are creating intestinalpermeability.
(25:26):
It's the toxins in the environment and the mental emotional stress I feel.
um And this all is going to impact.
think about digestion is really being at the top.
So, and I learned this from a clinical nutritionist thinking about the gut microbiome headto toe.
meaning cephalic phase of digestion.
We see the food, we smell the food, we start to salivate, we get excited for the meal.
(25:51):
This is what we want to happen.
But again, sometimes we're rushing around and we're not able to really kick into thatcephalic phase.
But that's what we need because then we have hydrochloric acid kickoff and digestionstarts.
If we're not digesting properly, we're risking overgrowth of these microbes further downin the large intestine.
(26:11):
And this creates inflammation.
creates intestinal permeability, which is this widening between the cells in the gutlining.
And that can lead to inflammation system wide.
So this is an interesting thing.
It's the parietal cells in the stomach that are producing hydrochloric acid.
And as people age, they can start to develop something called achlorhydria, whichbasically means that they are not producing hydrochloric acid in the same way that they
(26:37):
used to, which can have an impact on digestion, but it also has an impact having that acidpass from the stomach into the
small intestine is healthy for the small intestine to kind of keep it purged from some ofthese overgrowing bacteria and yeast to some extent, right?
So having acid when you eat is good.
(26:59):
And for people that, you you talked about the bitters, but also taking some acid, this ismaybe where vinegar is helpful and things like betaine can be helpful for replacing the
hydrochloric acid, right?
So
People should keep that in mind that these are pretty simple things that can be done witha meal that can help keep the small intestine from being overgrown.
Right.
(27:19):
It's a piece of the puzzle, not the whole puzzle, but yeah.
Yes.
I say hydrochloric acid is our natural antimicrobial because so many people, want to take,you know, herbs that kill.
They want to talk about killing first as far as that first step when we're thinking aboutGI healing or, know, maybe I just need to take a course of antimicrobial herbs.
But I always think about digestion first and the pancreatic enzymes, because this is whatkeeps everything in check and keeps it in balance.
(27:46):
And that's what we should be producing on our own naturally.
But sometimes we do need to take betaine HCl if maybe it's a higher level concern ordysfunction.
Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah.
then talk just about yeast because yeast is actually pretty common.
(28:07):
We see Candida and some people will show up with systemic yeast symptoms like they've gotit on their toenails or their fingernails or they've got it in their mouth or things like
that.
And what we've come to understand is that if you've got it in your peripheral
areas like that could be in a skin fold or something like that.
You definitely have it in your gut.
um And so treating just the uh toenail, let's call it, is not going to be enough.
(28:32):
You actually have to be treating the gut simultaneously.
So getting the stool test, if you have any signs of like skin infections is actually superhelpful too.
Yeah.
yes.
Thank you for bringing that up.
I agree.
So it's this systemic impact we have from this overgrowth or this imbalance or dysbiosis,whatever you want to call it in the gut.
And I think a lot of people aren't aware they're not looking at their tongue.
(28:54):
So thank you for bringing that up.
know, looking at your tongue, is there a white coating?
Looking at your toenails, are they slightly yellow or are they brittle?
Are we itchy anywhere?
Like you said, in skin folds, do we have an uh itchy scalp?
uh
I think so often these things are normalized.
It's like, I'm just itchy or I have this or I have loose stools and that's not normal.
(29:19):
And again, that's why I think using this test as a screening for overall health andLongevity is fantastic.
uh And also looking at blood sugar.
So the metabolism conversation is huge when it comes to the gut microbiome.
So if there's yeast, what is their fasting insulin?
Let's say their hemoglobin, when sees normal while their GP said, great, see you nextyear.
(29:42):
But their fasting insulin was never assessed and they're showing signs of insulinresistance and they've got yeast.
I'm not surprised because the yeast loves sugar.
The uh interesting thing about that is that we also do two hour glucose tolerance testswith insulin curves on every client that we see.
(30:03):
Yeah.
And it's remarkable how many people we find with a normal hemoglobin A1c, maybe it's 5.2or 5.3.
It's really quite good.
And a fasting blood sugar of 91, 89.
But my gosh, if you challenge them with 75 grams of glucose, you know, they may bediabetic for an hour.
And there's a genetic reason for that, right?
(30:23):
They are slow on the TCF7 gene and a couple of other genes there that they actually don'tget the increase in signals that glucose has hit the intestine to actually stimulate
insulin release in a timely manner.
And so the sugar...
for them can spike up to 180 or 200.
It shouldn't go over 130, right?
(30:44):
So they're like diabetic for an hour.
And then when they push out the insulin, instead of maybe their fasting insulin was fourand it should go up maybe no more than four or five times, let's say it should go to 20,
it may shoot up to 60 or 80, right?
In fact, we had a young woman in here who developed MS, had developed MS, she had justgraduated high school and her insulin level shot up over 200.
(31:11):
Right, right.
So the thing about insulin is that it's aging you very quickly, right?
It actually accelerates the aging process and the aging of your arteries.
So being able to understand your genetics around how you manage glucose and then what yourinsulin levels are doing is super important.
And wearing a continuous glucose monitor may not tell the story because you may controlthe blood sugar just fine.
(31:36):
But in order to do it, your insulin is 10 times what it should be.
So you're still not really getting the full information.
So that's why we think it's super important to do that test.
And in the era of GLP-1s, it's also interesting that I think it's acromantia in the guthelps us produce natural GLP-1.
(31:58):
So you can think probiotic.
metabolic or GLP-1 probiotic that actually will boost the population of those bacteria toaugment your GLP-1.
So if you're trying to get off your GLP-1, if you're taking one, by boosting the bacteria,just like you can boost GABA to sleep better, you can boost your endogenous GLP-1 to help
you control not only your blood sugar, but your appetite and other things, right?
(32:22):
Yes, yes.
The gut microbiome is communicating in all sorts of ways in terms of how many calorieswe're burning and do we even want to exercise?
Do we have cravings to your point?
And I just have to say, you know, when you said diabetic for an hour, you know, I most gotchills because it's that's such a poignant way of looking at it that it's easy to miss
(32:44):
unless you're doing the appropriate tests.
and, the gut microbiome plays a role.
Absolutely.
We're just learning more and more about this.
So it is, think, and who doesn't want, to be metabolically flexible.
That's kind of a buzz phrase right now.
I know that seems very appealing to me.
That's, seems like a non-negotiable if you want focus on Longevity.
(33:06):
So metabolically flexible.
This is a really interesting concept.
It has to do with the ability to eat from a wide variety of different sources and have a,not have a negative impact from it.
Right.
It's, training yourself to be metabolically flexible.
You can burn fat, you can burn carbs, you can do all these things and do it in a healthyway.
(33:27):
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
Do you have a tendency to get hangry?
Yeah, well I did, you know, so I did when I was in medical school and it was, you know,I'm learning about all this stuff and to that point we've come a long way since then in
terms of the microbiome.
But, you know, skipping a meal in some cases when I was really stressed and I was not veryactive because all I was doing was going to school and studying was very uncomfortable,
(33:53):
you know, feeling nauseous, feeling irritable.
That's where the angry part comes in for hangry.
Um, and then I started lifting weights, you know, that's the game changer is strengthtraining.
And of course we need some cardiovascular exercise also.
but yes, yes, I think I'm definitely prone and there's a genetic component to your point.
Also, my dad is type two diabetic.
(34:14):
And so it's a huge priority of mine, um, to understand that there are things in mycontrol.
And then there's kind of a predisposition, which makes it a bigger priority for me.
so I know hangry, but I know you can reverse it too.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's a great point.
What other, what other points would you like to bring forward on the, uh on the gut tumor?
(34:34):
Sure.
Yeah.
Well, I wish that we had a visual here, but again, the infographics are great.
They're really a beautiful teaching tool.
So for practitioners out there who feel like you want to draw out on, maybe you have awhiteboard in your exam room and that's fantastic.
Well, this is already drawn out for you in the report.
(34:54):
So, and we're superimposing the results within the infographic.
So it's quite sophisticated in terms of saying this inflammatory marker, let's just say,calprotectin is circled in red because it was too high for that particular patient on this
report.
So really helpful there.
And I just, I feel that you can get so much insight in terms of the categorization ofwhere the microbes fall in terms of risk.
(35:19):
So again, it's not just GI, but it's metabolism, it's neuro, it's hormones.
Hormones is another piece that we could, another rabbit hole we could go down.
But you're getting insight in terms of multi-system impact from the microbiome on thistest.
It's great.
talk to us about hormones.
uh We're familiar with beta-galactosidase as being uh important.
(35:40):
It's a molecule found in the gut.
I believe it's produced by E.
coli.
And maybe that's right.
I'm not sure.
But beta-galactosidase is a big deal because when you're metabolizing your hormones tobreak them down and get rid of them, they're excreted through the stool.
And a glucose molecule has been attached to the
hormone metabolite for excretion, marking it for excretion, and beta-galactosidase willcome along and snip off that glucose molecule, and then you end up reabsorbing that
(36:10):
hormone metabolite, which can have some detrimental consequences for you in terms ofbreast cancer risk, endometrial cancer risk, prostate cancer risk, things like that.
So being able to measure that is really important.
Yes.
Yes.
And so we're measuring beta-glucuronidase, but we also have beta-galactosidase producingbacteria measured on the test as well.
(36:33):
But the direct measurement beta-glucuronidase, yes.
And so I think about the conjugation of the toxins in the estrogen as a little anchor, ifyou will.
And I'm an educator at this point, so I think it's helpful to paint these pictures andgive these analogies for folks.
And so if your conjugate or your anchors pulled off,
(36:55):
of that estrogen, uh it's not going to come out in the stool because the anchor has beenpulled off.
So now it's going back into enterohepatic circulation.
And it was in the stool for a reason.
We're supposed to get rid of it, like you said.
So we don't want higher beta-glucuronidase.
And if you see that, maybe in a patient you weren't even considering hormone testing for,a further assessment would be the hormone zoomer is a urine.
(37:18):
hormones test, which also looks at endocrine disrupting chemicals.
So that one's very comprehensive as well.
But yes, that's an insight that you maybe wouldn't glean otherwise in terms of poordetoxification of estrogen and toxins.
So are there things that you can do?
I know there's uh calcium deglucurate can be uh taken to basically neutralize thebeta-glucuronidase, but is there a way to actually decrease its production?
(37:46):
So.
So my two cents there, we all have opinions.
It's an issue of the microbiome.
So in a pinch, calcium duglucurate is great for maybe your premenopausal female who hasPMS, dysmenorrhea.
She's got clotting with periods.
And so this is what we typically think about as estrogen dominance.
(38:09):
She's clearly struggling.
And now you see she's got elevated beta-glucuronidase.
Can we inhibit that?
enzyme and get her some relief with calcium deglutcrate in the short term.
I say absolutely, there's a time and a place.
But I see it as symptom support.
So I wouldn't use it long term and I would say ultimately we have to get her microbiome inorder because that's where the enzymes coming from largely.
(38:33):
Yeah, exactly.
So then the question becomes, how do you get the microbiome in order?
Is there other probiotics?
Does this come back to more fiber or?
ah
So again, I would start with digestion.
We are assessing digestion on the stool test.
So you do get a pancreatic elastase, which is a standard marker.
You're also getting a fat malabsorption panel, which is really cool because you can lookat the pancreatic elastase and you say, okay, well, it's not too low.
(39:00):
Maybe it's suboptimal.
So maybe it's in this mildly low range.
And you start to question, is this patient producing enough lipase?
So the cross-examining, if you will, would be to look at the fat malabsorption panel tolook for excess fat in the stool, which might be further evidence that they're not
producing enough lipase in addition to that mildly low elastase.
(39:21):
And so evaluating digestion is the first thing I do.
After looking for a pathogen, of course, right?
We want to, that is really the first thing.
Don't miss the pathogen.
You know, if they're inflamed, they have high calprotectin and you're scratching your headand you're getting nervous and you're ready to write a referral.
Make sure you look at the pathogen report because there's a lot of stuff on this test.
(39:41):
So that's the first thing.
And then I look at digestion.
So if digestion is not in order to your point about hydrochloric acid, that's veryimportant.
And I love the conversation of meal time hygiene.
which is again, not very exciting or revolutionary, but can we sit down and enjoy the foodand what kinds of techniques are there?
(40:02):
One of my favorites, and this was passed on from a provider who we had on our podcast.
She said, put on one of your favorite songs.
You know, if you're working all day, something.
Something from childhood, you know, I think we all have those songs from our earliestchildhood memories.
You hear it instantly.
Walking on broken glass for me is one of those.
My mom would put it on and we'd dance in the kitchen.
(40:24):
And instantly it takes me out of my work mode and it puts me into my digest, myparasympathetic.
And I love that.
Very cool.
No, that's very cool.
yeah.
you Annie Lennox, right?
What do you do?
I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, to maybe get into, get ready to eat.
(40:46):
Yeah.
I usually grab something and start chewing.
That's typically what I do.
But I tend to eat out some and then I eat at home.
And again, when I go to the store, I try to get a wide variety of different plants tobring in.
But eating for me has always been
(41:07):
Like if I never had to eat again, I'd be actually fine with that.
Like, I know some people like, some people almost live to eat.
Like they plan a whole vacation around where they're going to eat.
Um, for me, food is more fuel than it is anything.
and literally if I didn't have to eat, I'd actually be fine.
If I could just take a pill, I'd, I'd actually be fine with that.
(41:28):
That being said, I have a sophisticated palette and I can enjoy.
Hmm.
a whole wide variety of things.
I'm a very adventurous eater at the same time, right?
I enjoy that.
But I don't have a big routine.
I was listening to you talking about putting on music and things like that and doing alittle dance before you eat.
(41:48):
I don't know.
Maybe I'll have to try that on and see how it works.
Right.
It's just something that's so quick.
And I think there's some neural pathways.
I'm sure I can't speak to that.
it reminds me of scent, how certain scents can immediately make you think of a memory.
And I think it's very powerful.
(42:10):
Yes.
You know, one of the things you talked about with being able to identify fat in the stoolthat's not being absorbed is it's really critical when we find that because we know that
people may not be absorbing their fat soluble vitamins.
Right.
And so that's a big that's a big deal.
So making sure that people are getting enough of the fat soluble vitamin and also able todigest it.
(42:36):
So if you're listening to this, this is another thing that a healthy person, you know, youmay be taking your vitamin D, but if you haven't checked your vitamin D levels, you know,
it may be because you're losing some of it in the stool.
Right.
And then on top of that, there are genetics, a number of different genes, VDR genes andother ones that have to do with how well the vitamin D can actually interface with your
(42:58):
genome.
Vitamin D is not really a vitamin, it's actually a hormone.
So it goes into the DNA, it goes into the nucleus of the cell and it's actually modulatinggenetic expression.
And being able to take sulforaphane, which comes from broccoli or broccoli sprouts,particularly when it's combined with myronase to activate it, can up-regulate those genes
so that you're actually getting the benefit of the vitamin D when you take it or when youconsume it in a vitamin D enriched food, right?
(43:24):
This whole thing is it's important to understand that food, we're talking about food anddigestion.
It's really important.
I always like having a conversation with people that food is actually information.
We think of it as calories, something to burn or some, or a nutrient, something that weneed, right?
For energy production and the mitochondria with the B vitamins or whatever else, butactually it's all information.
(43:48):
And when you start to think about it as information, it's like, well, what information doI need?
And is the gut biome, is it working in concert with me to give my body the information itneeds to actually live a healthy life?
Right.
So.
Right, yes, and that's epigenetics, which is also fascinating.
And how do we influence what we're born with and maybe show up the best we can with whatis in our control as opposed to what's not in our control?
(44:18):
yes, such a great point there.
Nutrient status is, and again, another reason why it's for everybody.
We need to make sure our nutrient status is intact.
Just to, if we're feeling great, we're going to the provide your
primary care provider because you say, I'm just here for a checkup.
We want to continue feeling great.
(44:38):
It's very simple when you think about it that way.
There's another element to feeling great, which is that, many times we'll normalize whatit is to feel good.
Right.
In other words, and then, um, if people come in to see us and they say, well, I actuallyfeel good.
I'm actually good.
It's like, okay, great.
Well, let's, you know, let's kind of look at some things and see where things are at.
(45:02):
And then you figure out, well, here's an opportunity and here's an opportunity and here'sone.
And you actually address those opportunities.
whether it's hormone optimization or gut health or decreasing inflammation or, whatever itis, boosting NID for that matter.
All of a sudden people are like, my gosh, I feel great.
Right.
And I didn't realize, I didn't realize that I didn't feel great until I felt great.
(45:23):
Right.
So ah it's, it's really fascinating that we normalize the way we feel.
So if you're listening to this and it's like, no, but I feel good.
Why would I want to do that test?
You can actually typically feel better than you do.
ah
So that's an interesting piece of this as well.
Yeah.
yes, we want to optimize and I think about, just think about people going to bed so lateand, you know, sleep again is another thing that we could talk about in terms of the gut
(45:49):
microbiome.
And we have our habits, right?
So waking up feeling sluggish, feeling that we're not energized and ready to start ourday, we're relying on coffee so often.
And so I think that that's just an example of how this can become overlooked.
I mean, if you can wake up naturally,
Mm-hmm.
to an alarm and feel that you're ready to start your day and you're looking forward to itwithout a stimulant.
(46:12):
I think that that's a really nice way of maybe trying to understand that there's alwayssomething that we could improve possibly.
And I think that's empowering too.
Tell us, maybe the last thing we'll address is talk a little bit about alcohol.
What's the impact of alcohol on the gut, gut health, things like leaky gut.
(46:34):
Yeah, and what we found is that we can never fix somebody with leaky gut and bacterialovergrowth or yeast overgrowth if they continue to drink.
oh
It's not that we have anything against alcohol.
It's just that the alcohol, those bacteria and those yeast love that.
And it's really difficult to clean things up if alcohol keeps coming in.
(46:54):
ah So it's an interesting phenomenon.
Yes, yes, it's toxic, you know, really is what we think about typically with alcohol.
And so it impacts, of course, our liver.
And it's going to be really hard.
It's that obstacle is what I'm hearing you're saying that some people have a harder timegetting over than others, even if they're eating a very nutrient dense diet with plenty of
(47:16):
fiber.
But yeah, I think there's with
We can talk about moderation and, you know, kind of the curiosity is a red wine and theantioxidants there in your field I'm curious about, but yeah, there's a give and take
there.
Well, there's yeah, there's polyphenols in red wine, of course.
And there's very small amounts which can be helpful in red wine.
(47:38):
But we tend to see that alcohol in general has more negative effects than it does positiveeffects with the exception.
Yeah, with the exception of inducing an enzyme in the liver.
that actually metabolizes alcohol.
And it turns out that having more of that enzyme decreases the level of other alcoholsthat our body produces.
(48:01):
And that's associated with Longevity benefit.
So having some of this aldehyde alcohol enzyme will actually
has been associated with uh Longevity.
So the way I get a little bit of alcohol is drinking some kombucha, which has a trace ofalcohol in it, which is enough to stimulate the enzyme production.
And, um and yet I don't think has much impact on my gut and I don't drink it all the time,but it's, it's the way I handle alcohol.
(48:27):
Sure.
That's a clever way of going about it.
And fermented foods, again, we haven't really touched on probiotics a little bit, butkombucha is a fantastic fermented product.
It's a beverage for those of you who don't know.
think most people know at this point, but yes, I love that along with, Kim cheese, one ofmy favorite fermented food items.
And even if you heat it up and this was mentioned again in that, that episode I listenedto prior on your show.
(48:53):
um You still get benefit even if you're heating up these fermented food products withpost-biotics.
um So there's so much good to come from all the things that we're consuming, if they'rewhole foods and I think so many people, shy away from fermented foods.
You say sauerkraut and they run the other way.
(49:13):
Me too.
dehydrogenase was the name of the enzyme I was thinking of.
So by stimulating alcohol dehydrogenase with a little bit of alcohol, that's got aLongevity benefit.
But apart from that, I'm not sure that the alcohol really does does much so in a positiveway.
And what we do is we just have people abstain for a few months and we can clear up thegut.
(49:35):
And then if they have a bit.
It seems they can kind of maintain it, but it's hard to pull them out of the fire ifthey're continuing to drink.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, and that trial period, if you will, I think a lot of people, learn on their own fromthat experiment.
my gosh, I feel so much better, as you said.
Then they make their own decisions, right?
We're teaching them how to fish.
(49:55):
They feel they feel better.
They sleep better.
They recover better.
Their exercises, routines become, you know, more vigorous and better.
They make more progress.
Their brain is clear.
What I find is kind of the tripping point for a lot of people is the social circles theyrun in.
ah Right.
They it's like, well, the group I run with, you know, they all drink.
(50:17):
And if I'm not if I'm not drinking, they're asking me, why why aren't you drinking?
Right.
I this.
Like there's this peer pressure scenario, which I find
really odd to actually be influenced by any peer pressure at this point in my life.
But apparently that's a real thing.
yeah, well, it's just so many people, go out to socialize and what are they doing?
They're going out to get a drink.
(50:37):
And it's like, can we go for a hike?
Can we go to a painting class?
I don't know.
Can we go to a dance class?
There's so many other great things to do to socialize, but yes, that's one big socialpoint that people need to maybe consider.
Cool.
Well, Emmie, it's been a pleasure chatting with you.
Yeah, I appreciate the updates on the Gutszoomer.
(50:58):
And if people want to order a Gutszoomer, I think you've got a promotion code that we'llput in the show notes where they can click and order a Gutszoomer and get it.
You might need a physician to help you interpret it.
So you'll need to find somebody qualified to look at it.
But that would be a good starting point.
(51:18):
Yes, yes.
And to that point, quickly, we do have clinical lab educators such as myself who canconsult with your healthcare practitioner if you're not one yourself.
ah And that can be very helpful for interpretation and for providers out there listening.
We have a new Vibrant Academy.
The Vibrant Academy is an interactive educational platform on the portal.
(51:42):
And so you can walk yourself through.
how to interpret, you can understand case-based management protocols to address some ofthe findings.
So that's another really nice new tool that we have for you.
That's the Vibrant Academy.
Yeah.
I love you.
I love the commitment to, you know, democratizing the goodness that the test can bringforward.
(52:05):
That's really, it's really commendable.
A lot of labs are not doing that and they're not creating the kind of customizedpersonalized sort of infographics where it's like, well, here's a generic, you know,
hormone panel, you know, metabolite chart or something.
But what we're actually getting is we're getting
the things that are specific to that client.
(52:26):
What's off on the oxidative stress genetics and what's off on the oxidative stress paneland things like that, right?
So yeah, I really commend Vibrant for doing that.
been great.
um Yeah.
All right.
Thanks so much.
Welcome everybody to this edition of the Gladden Longevity podcast, where we're here toturn you into an age hacker and answer the big questions in life.
How good can we be?
How do we live well beyond 120?
How do we make a hundred and new 30?
How do we live young for a lifetime and how do we develop a 300 year old mind?
To that end, you've probably heard that gut health is central to health in general.
(00:52):
And we're fortunate to have Emmie Brown with us.
She's a naturopathic physician.
with a bachelor's of science in dietetics from Florida State and a naturopathic medicinedegree and residency from Baptiste University Clinic.
She also headed up naturopathic residency supervisor at Health-Topia Clinics in Encinitas,California.
(01:13):
And she's joined Vibrant America, a lab testing company out of San Jose, California that
has developed a lot of very innovative tests for functional medicine physicians andlongevity physicians.
And today we're going to be talking about the Gut Zoomer which is an updated version of avery comprehensive stool test.
And I think you're going to learn a lot.
(01:34):
I really enjoyed this conversation with Emmie.
Welcome everybody to this edition of the Gladden Longevity podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Jeffrey Gladden.
And I'm joined today by Emmie Brown, a naturopathic physician that works for vibrantAmerica.
Emmie, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me Dr.
Gladden.
So nice to see you.
So today we're going to get into some deep, well, we're going to get into some deep stool,I suppose.
(01:58):
Right.
So we're going to be talking about, vibrant America's gut zoomer, which is a really cooltest.
In fact, they use zoomer after all of their tests or most of their tests.
What, where did that, what's the origination of zoomer?
Why did that come into play?
Are you familiar with that or?
Well, don't quote me on this.
I've been with the company for three years.
So, you know, I was not around during the inception, but the Zoomer, I believe when we'reusing the technology, using these proprietary microarray sequencing technology devices, we
(02:31):
can zoom in on protein and peptide sequences.
So generally it's the food sensitivity tests that were given the Zoomer name.
So,
having to do with the technology, but it seems like they're running with it for some ofthese other tests, which include a lot of other methodologies included to pick up these
markers.
So Vibrant America is a really interesting company.
(02:53):
I've known them really since they kind of came on the scene and they've been incrediblyinnovative.
I've actually gone to the labs there in California outside of what is it?
San Jose, I think.
And it's incredibly high tech.
I mean, with all the mass specs and everything that they do there, it's unlike anythingI've ever seen before.
(03:16):
They're incredibly dedicated to performing ultra high quality testing, I would say.
ah and you know, when you come to stool testing, it can be a little mucky just to carrythe puns forward.
So, and a little murky, I suppose.
Do you want to update us a little bit on the Gutzoomer?
(03:37):
of maybe introduce the audience to the Gutzoomer, kind of what it is, how it's usedclinically.
Maybe we can talk about some of the updates.
Absolutely.
Yeah, happy to do so.
And I think the big take home point here is that stool testing is for everybody.
It's not just if you have diarrhea or constipation, gas, bloating, heartburn, and we canget into that uh later, but.
(04:01):
So why is it for everybody?
I mean, if somebody's listening to this, it's like, you know, I feel fine.
My my I'm regular.
I'm you everything seems good.
Why why would I want to do it?
Mm-hmm.
Because it's linked to Longevity.
We have this research.
It's amazing.
You're probably familiar with the 2023 Nature article titled, Longevity of Centenarians isReflected by the Gut Microbiome with Youth Associated Signatures.
(04:24):
But for your listeners out there.
So who doesn't want that?
Yeah, exactly.
So just so the audience understands, actually an altered gut microbiome is now one of thehallmarks of aging.
You know, the formal hallmarks of aging, things like telomere attrition or shortening,senescent cell formation, inflammation, mitochondrial dysfunction, altered intracellular
(04:45):
communication, micronutrient sensing disorders.
autophagy, proteostasis, all these things that are kind of fundamental processes in theaging process.
Now having an altered gut microbiome is right up there in terms of its level ofimportance.
So tell us a little bit about that paper from 2023.
(05:05):
What did they talk about there?
Sure.
Well, there are features measured on our stool test, the gut zoomer, that are mentionedjust very briefly if you look at the abstract.
So I quote, compared to their old adult counterparts, centenarians displayed youthassociated features in the gut microbiome characterized by an over-representation of a
(05:27):
Bacteroides-dominated enterotype, increase in species evenness, enrichment of potentiallybeneficial Bacteroidides, and depletion of potential pathobionts.
And those pathobionts, that's a new term for me.
And so these are microbes that are naturally present in the gut microbiome, but they canbecome pathogenic in certain circumstances, inflammatory cases, and nobody wants that.
(05:53):
And we're measuring these bacteroidetes and these bacteroidetes microbes.
We're measuring evenness.
yeah, okay, cool.
So usually there's a Bacteroides-Firmicutes ratio that's reported out, right?
And you want to talk a little bit about that ratio and then maybe how people can increasethe Bacteroides?
I mean, what would you do if you're low on Bacteroides, right?
(06:16):
What am I going to do?
Buy some Bacteroides?
Yeah, we all want more.
So how do we get it?
Yeah.
so that ratio, the firmicutes to the bacteroides really helps us understand if we'reeating too much refined carbohydrate, which is gonna promote more firmicutes, a lot of fat
in comparison to plant-based fiber, which is gonna feed the other side of the equation,the bacteroides.
(06:37):
Okay, so, and we think about plant-based fiber, we talk about fiber all day long, it canbe a little bit of a boring kind of...
Concept for many people.
It's not sexy and exciting, but it's imperative So and dr.
Tim Spector spoke to this also 30 different plant-based foods a week It doesn't have to bea huge amount but we're seeing this and it's such a good reminder and that's Seeds nuts
(07:01):
fruits veggies who's eating, you know beans on a regular basis and lentils Our spices so Ithink and I have to be mindful of this.
Otherwise, I'm not getting it in, know these little
Literally little things like chia seeds and flax seeds.
Mix it into whatever you can.
Salads, smoothies, oats.
And all the herbs, all the herbs are incredibly important too.
(07:22):
um Right.
Basil and rosemary and tarragon and all these herbs are incredibly, healthful for us areincredibly helpful for the arteries, which is another conversation, but, they actually,
um, promote decreased oxidation in the arterial walls, which was very cool, but it's alsoincredible for the gut.
you know, you think about dietary preferences now with a lot of people.
(07:45):
being on keto diets or high protein diets or carnivore diets or things like that.
When those people get their gut myomes tested, I suspect that they're low on bacteroides,right?
So yeah.
do see that.
You a lot more people are eating carnivore and it seems like, you know, it helps somepeople in a short period of time, depending on whatever the case is.
(08:08):
If they're looking for maybe help with energy or insulin resistance, maybe I'd be curious,you know, what you're seeing as far as cardiovascular trends and laboratory findings, but
it doesn't seem like a lot of people are sticking with it for that long, at least from mypoint of view and what I'm hearing.
Yeah, I think there are people that benefit from taking plants out.
There are some people that just don't get along with fiber for whatever reason.
(08:32):
You know, it's either bloating, diarrhea, whatever it is, and they can kind of settletheir gut down by taking plants out and going to more of a carnivore, keto, even a more,
let's call it higher fat, avocado, healthy fat kind of diet.
uh
seems to be have a salutary effect for them.
(08:54):
And then there are people that want to get lean.
And to your point, if you're only eating protein, what people don't understand is thatprotein can become carbs.
Most people think, well, if I'm eating protein, I'm building protein, but that's not true.
Egg whites, which are the perfect biological protein.
If you eat egg whites, only 49 % of that goes into building protein in your body.
(09:18):
The rest of it does get turned into carbs.
So that's an interesting thing that most people don't realize.
But I think that what we found is that when you're looking at it through the lens of howdo we make more nitric oxide to actually keep our arteries healthy, that's all plant
based, right?
It's all comes from plants that are high in dietary nitrate and that also have good fiber.
(09:40):
And so, you know, when I was making smoothies, em I would always call them chunkiesbecause you actually want to be chewing.
those plants and getting that fiber in there that your gut biome can ferment.
And yes, you may get a little bit of gas, but it's kind of worth it because you do boostthese healthy bacteria.
anyway, we're kind of in favor of a plant based diet, not a plant only diet, but certainlya plant based.
(10:07):
Yeah.
So that's how we think about it.
But, you know, there are people that benefit from something else.
And so, you know, if that's the case, so be it.
But it's interesting to see that on the Longevity front, there is no substitute for plantfiber, right?
So that's what you're saying.
So that's.
That's the poignant piece here.
And if there's digestion issues, well, there's something we can do about that.
(10:31):
If we're not tolerating these foods, if we can lightly steam or cook these fibers, supportdigestion using bitters.
I'm a fan of bitter tinctures as I'm a naturopath, so I like the botanical side of thingsas a modality.
and just eating bitter greens.
Can we start our meal with some arugula, you know, with a vinegar-based dressing?
(10:53):
It's uh something that I think is overlooked.
So what do bitters do for somebody's digestion?
Yep, so bitters stimulate digestion.
We think about hydrochloric acid, pancreatic enzymes, bile acid.
Instead of replacing the pancreatic enzymes, which of course there's a time and a placefor that intervention, but I like to start with bitters because this is going to naturally
(11:14):
stimulate what your body already knows how to do.
But sometimes we're stressed.
Oftentimes we're stressed, right?
We're working, we're eating in the car, we're eating standing in the kitchen.
and it's so, it's hard to tap into rest and digest our parasympathetic nervous system tonewhen we're always going, going, going.
So to have a little bottle of tinctures in your bag, can be a nice workaround.
(11:39):
Yeah, that's great.
Is there a brand that you like of bitters?
gosh, there are a few.
um Wise Woman Herbal's Herb Farm, it's PH Farm, a little play on words there.
Urban Moonshine, these are becoming more more readily available at health food stores.
And I always tell patients also, make it fun.
(11:59):
It's not another pill.
So you can put it in sparkling or still water, and then have a little mocktail before yourmeal.
Right?
We like mocktails, I'm sure, on this show.
Yeah.
We're not big alcohol fans.
Um, although a little bit of alcohol actually does have a Longevity benefit.
but, yeah, no, that's, that's interesting.
That's cool.
(12:20):
So then take us through the guts.
um it's a test.
It's, tell people how they collect it, how they, you know, how they, how it's processed,where they send it, all that just kind of walk us through the whole journey with the guts.
Yeah, so it is a stool test and we have a QR code in the kit.
So I think that sounds intimidating to a lot of people.
I know it did for me when I first did it as a student, as a medical student.
(12:44):
But the instructions are very easy to follow, you know, and so to not get too graphic, youknow, there is something to cover the toilet to collect the stool.
You know, there are tools provided so you can put the stool into the specimen containers.
And then it's shipped.
You know, it's kind of a funny thing.
You're shipping your stool to the lab where it's processed.
And as I said, there are several methodologies that are used to look at the microbiome andlook at inflammatory markers, look at digestion markers.
(13:12):
And so, and it's a pretty quick turnaround time.
I don't have that in front of me, but I know they're trying to get quicker and quicker.
I believe it's less than a week or so at this point.
And it's so comprehensive.
You're getting a huge report.
And you're getting infographics to teach you why this matters and where these inflammatorymarkers are coming from.
um And there are intervention strategies also displayed in this report.
(13:36):
So you don't have to be a researcher or a gut microbiome, PhD.
The report gives you so much information in terms of interpretation.
It's fantastic.
Yeah, I think talk a little bit about pathogens in the gut.
know, those are disease, disease producing organisms.
And these can be anything from parasites to different bacteria, to different viruses.
(14:00):
And what the gut zoomer does is it actually reports out on all of these.
How does it actually detect, detect those things?
Cause I don't think you're looking through a microscope to see a worm swimming around.
Right.
So.
No, no, we're not using microscopy.
We're using real-time PCR.
And so we have a 96 % sensitivity, 100 % specificity.
(14:21):
So for those listening who aren't familiar, 96 % of the time we're catching that pathogenif it's there.
So pretty darn good considering other tests on the market.
And then 100 % specificity, meaning when there's a pathogen detected, there's no doubtthat it is that pathogen.
It's not cross reacting with something else.
(14:41):
So I think about sensitivity as how good is the test at finding the needle in thehaystack?
Okay, well it might miss 4 % of the time, a false negative.
And the specificity is how good is the test at making sure that needle is not somethingelse that looks maybe like a needle, like a toothpick or something else, right?
(15:02):
So very good accuracy there and we're testing for a lot.
we're testing for not just H.
pylori, but this is a new one for me.
We're testing for non-helicobacterial pylori helicobacteria, which is kind of an umbrellaof these helicobacteria bacteria.
And they can be pathogenic, but sometimes they're not tested for.
(15:25):
think oftentimes they're not tested for.
So in a H.
pylori negative patient with gastritis,
we might want to look for this particular pathogen and it's on the new one.
So very exciting on that.
interesting.
So with H.
pylori, it can be treated with an antibiotic and it can also be treated with certainherbals.
How about for the other heliobacteria, if you find those, how are those treated?
(15:47):
Yeah.
So I haven't done a deep dive on that.
It seems like the standard of care for H.
pylori, as far as I understand, I believe it's the similar antibiotic regimen.
ah But, we don't want to miss these things.
I think that's really the big point here because you go to your primary care provider,maybe you just or you go to gastro.
Maybe you're even referred to gastro and they're testing for these routine pathogens.
(16:11):
So to have a more comprehensive list is, I think, really helpful for people struggling.
And there's some risks associated with that one too.
Malt lymphomas in particular stuck out to me for this particular pathogen.
So we want to be careful.
We're looking for these things.
If someone has ongoing gastritis, if they've got ulcers, if they've got issues, we don'twant to miss it.
(16:32):
Yeah, it's interesting.
We've been impressed that we end up finding uh parasites for people they didn't know theyhad.
So people that have traveled, people that are exposed to, I don't know, different water,different environments with different food, whatever, they can come back and have several
pathogens that they don't know about because regular stool testing will have been looking
(16:56):
through a microscope to see if they see something.
And if they don't, then they're left with symptoms, but no real understanding of why theyhave them.
being able to use the PCR, which is basically looking at genetic material, then you canactually have more certainty that you're finding it.
And then you know, certainly what you have if you do find it.
(17:18):
So we've been able to treat people and have significant improvement in their gut health.
through that.
It's interesting how many people show up with parasites.
So not everybody, but it's certainly quite common.
So tell us a little bit more about the test.
You were talking about some of the new features with the updated Gutsumer.
(17:40):
Compare the old to the new, if you would.
Sure, yes.
So we do have some additional commensals.
And so to your point, Dr.
Gladden, we have our pathogens.
These are infectious organisms, but we also have our commensal bugs, if you will, ormicrobes.
And so these are the normal inhabitants, if you will, but they can become, they can go alittle crazy.
(18:00):
They can become overgrown and that can be associated with GI upset.
We can have gas bloating.
I know a lot
listeners are probably familiar with SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
So we can look for these imbalances in the normal microbiome, if you will.
So we have added a couple of those microbes.
have one in particular that I find interesting is this Alli Stipes.
(18:24):
This is brand new to me.
So this is uh a microbe that has been associated with mood regulation.
GABA is produced by some of our microbes.
this is again, why stool testing is for everybody, right?
Who doesn't want a good mood?
Who doesn't want to live a long, healthy, happy life?
So if this is implicated in GABA and short chain fatty acid production, that's amazing.
(18:44):
And I want to see if I have enough of this particular one.
um
good one because GABA is basically the counterpoint to glutamate in the brain.
And glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter, which can make it hard for your brain toturn off at night.
And it can also kind of burn your brain out, so to speak, where you get a lot of fatigueor brain fog.
(19:08):
Whereas GABA is actually kind of a rest and restore neurotransmitter.
It calms the brain down and it's really important for sleep.
Um, so if people are struggling with sleep, if they're taking the right probiotics, andwe'll talk about that in a second to maybe boost the GABA production or the right diet to
(19:28):
boost GABA production.
Now you're, basically actually calming yourself down by having your gut working with you,right?
It's, we know that gut is kind of a second brain.
we know it makes serotonin and some other things that are actually salutary, for us interms of, being calm.
But to have more GABA, that's a big deal.
So do you want to tell us how to optimize the GABA, producing bacteria?
(19:52):
Are there insights into that or is that all?
So I don't have the specific, you know, I think getting the specific, maybe nutrientintervention for the organism, you know, that's trickier.
to again, I'm referring back to another episode you had on the gut and Longevity, Dr.
Tim Spector, that we're really in the infancy period of understanding all of this.
(20:13):
But we do know certain fibers will feed these micro uh biota.
And so we need fructooligosaccharides, we need resistant starch, we need inulin.
So overall we want a collection of these fibers and it can sound, you know, kind of likeanother language if you're not familiar with nutrition, but essentially it's eating all
(20:35):
those things we talked about before, but we need a combination.
So it's not the same, it's not your favorite fruits every single day, but buy somethingyou've never seen before like.
You Jerusalem artichokes.
I think I may have only had it once or twice in my life.
I need to buy more.
Um, we all need to kind of work on this, I think.
but it's, it's really being mindful of rotating, eating seasonally.
(20:57):
I think that helps a lot too.
Yep.
No, it's a good point.
try to, um, I adopted a habit, you know, when I heard about the fact that most of us eatabout 16 foods, we kind of rotate around 16 foods or something like that.
I was like, that's pretty narrow window.
So, and then I had heard about the need for 30 plants or 40 plants.
(21:18):
And so I started to adopt a strategy when I go to the store of trying to buy differentthings every time I go.
Um,
I love that.
I may circle back to it in three weeks or four weeks and get another whatever, apple orkale or whatever.
But trying to go into the produce section and just buy a bunch of different things.
um And that variety, you know, the gut loves variety.
(21:43):
Your body loves variety.
You're actually, your nervous system loves variety, right?
If you're doing the same thing habitually, ah you know, it starts to get boring.
So.
You can think about it.
It's a little bit about being adventurous in your eating.
And I think when you do that, it's actually a super healthy, super healthy thing to bedoing.
So, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
(22:03):
And recreate what you like eating out.
You know, I'm a big foodie myself, but when we go out, we get exposed to so many highlyprocessed oils.
And, you know, even if we're eating a salad, the salad dressing is probably using a verylow grade vegetable oil that's sold in those huge plastic jugs.
You know, that doesn't speak to its quality very much.
And so try to recreate it at home.
(22:24):
You know, try to understand the origins of that meal.
culturally, I love to explore this and then find those ingredients and there's gonna be away to cook it and make it taste good.
All you have to do is Google it, right?
Our information is just everywhere now.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Cool.
So what are the other features of the new Gutsumer that you'd like to highlight for us?
(22:46):
Sure.
there are, we've got antibodies on this test.
So for those of you who may be familiar with the older iteration, we had anti-glydenantibodies featured, but we do have an expansion and I'm just pulling it up on my end here
too.
oh
is related to wheat sensitivity.
(23:06):
Exactly.
Yes.
So could be a sign of our gluten sensitivity, maybe a non-celiac gluten sensitivity.
So we've been tested for celiac and it's negative.
Okay.
But you're still struggling with gas bloating and maybe it's extra intestinal.
So again, even if we don't have GI symptoms, we have brain fog, we have headaches, we havefatigue.
We know that there are associations between wheat and gluten related disorders andneurologic complaints and neuroinflammation.
(23:33):
So
We are looking for immune system reactivity to gluten in the stool test.
So you may not need to get a blood test.
Maybe you're looking for a pediatric patient.
And the stool test is obviously gonna be easier than getting blood in a lot of kiddos.
So I love this feature.
We're including anti-lipopolysaccharide.
This is an endotoxin that comes from gram-negative bacteria.
(23:55):
And oftentimes we have way too much gram-negative bacteria when we have functional GIdisorders.
And that's the dysbiosis.
LPS, lipopolysaccharide, that's a big one.
That drives a lot of systemic inflammation actually.
Right.
Yeah.
Interesting.
And what about leaky gut?
What are you doing with regards to leaky gut?
(24:16):
Because I think a lot of people, should talk a little bit more about SIBO, which is smallintestinal bacterial overgrowth and what I call CO, which is small intestine yeast
overgrowth.
Right.
and uh leaky gut, these are so common.
And the symptoms of it, what we see is systemic inflammation and brain fog seem to be twoof the biggest ones, um as well as bloating.
(24:40):
And you can have gas and constipation and whatever else.
But talk to us a little bit about uh leaky gut and then walk us through the SIBO and COscenario.
Sure.
So intestinal permeability or leaky gut as we tend to call it is something that can happendownstream of stress, to put it simply.
We have so many stressors.
(25:01):
We have physical stressors and this might be poor digestion.
This might be contending with toxins in the environment.
I mean, that's a whole other conversation we can touch on.
So the plastics in our environment is just to name one.
um the glyphosate right on the food that we consume.
So it's not just dietary processed foods and toxins that are creating intestinalpermeability.
(25:26):
It's the toxins in the environment and the mental emotional stress I feel.
um And this all is going to impact.
think about digestion is really being at the top.
So, and I learned this from a clinical nutritionist thinking about the gut microbiome headto toe.
meaning cephalic phase of digestion.
We see the food, we smell the food, we start to salivate, we get excited for the meal.
(25:51):
This is what we want to happen.
But again, sometimes we're rushing around and we're not able to really kick into thatcephalic phase.
But that's what we need because then we have hydrochloric acid kickoff and digestionstarts.
If we're not digesting properly, we're risking overgrowth of these microbes further downin the large intestine.
(26:11):
And this creates inflammation.
creates intestinal permeability, which is this widening between the cells in the gutlining.
And that can lead to inflammation system wide.
So this is an interesting thing.
It's the parietal cells in the stomach that are producing hydrochloric acid.
And as people age, they can start to develop something called achlorhydria, whichbasically means that they are not producing hydrochloric acid in the same way that they
(26:37):
used to, which can have an impact on digestion, but it also has an impact having that acidpass from the stomach into the
small intestine is healthy for the small intestine to kind of keep it purged from some ofthese overgrowing bacteria and yeast to some extent, right?
So having acid when you eat is good.
(26:59):
And for people that, you you talked about the bitters, but also taking some acid, this ismaybe where vinegar is helpful and things like betaine can be helpful for replacing the
hydrochloric acid, right?
So
People should keep that in mind that these are pretty simple things that can be done witha meal that can help keep the small intestine from being overgrown.
Right.
(27:19):
It's a piece of the puzzle, not the whole puzzle, but yeah.
Yes.
I say hydrochloric acid is our natural antimicrobial because so many people, want to take,you know, herbs that kill.
They want to talk about killing first as far as that first step when we're thinking aboutGI healing or, know, maybe I just need to take a course of antimicrobial herbs.
But I always think about digestion first and the pancreatic enzymes, because this is whatkeeps everything in check and keeps it in balance.
(27:46):
And that's what we should be producing on our own naturally.
But sometimes we do need to take betaine HCl if maybe it's a higher level concern ordysfunction.
Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah.
then talk just about yeast because yeast is actually pretty common.
(28:07):
We see Candida and some people will show up with systemic yeast symptoms like they've gotit on their toenails or their fingernails or they've got it in their mouth or things like
that.
And what we've come to understand is that if you've got it in your peripheral
areas like that could be in a skin fold or something like that.
You definitely have it in your gut.
um And so treating just the uh toenail, let's call it, is not going to be enough.
(28:32):
You actually have to be treating the gut simultaneously.
So getting the stool test, if you have any signs of like skin infections is actually superhelpful too.
Yeah.
yes.
Thank you for bringing that up.
I agree.
So it's this systemic impact we have from this overgrowth or this imbalance or dysbiosis,whatever you want to call it in the gut.
And I think a lot of people aren't aware they're not looking at their tongue.
(28:54):
So thank you for bringing that up.
know, looking at your tongue, is there a white coating?
Looking at your toenails, are they slightly yellow or are they brittle?
Are we itchy anywhere?
Like you said, in skin folds, do we have an uh itchy scalp?
uh
I think so often these things are normalized.
It's like, I'm just itchy or I have this or I have loose stools and that's not normal.
(29:19):
And again, that's why I think using this test as a screening for overall health andLongevity is fantastic.
uh And also looking at blood sugar.
So the metabolism conversation is huge when it comes to the gut microbiome.
So if there's yeast, what is their fasting insulin?
Let's say their hemoglobin, when sees normal while their GP said, great, see you nextyear.
(29:42):
But their fasting insulin was never assessed and they're showing signs of insulinresistance and they've got yeast.
I'm not surprised because the yeast loves sugar.
The uh interesting thing about that is that we also do two hour glucose tolerance testswith insulin curves on every client that we see.
(30:03):
Yeah.
And it's remarkable how many people we find with a normal hemoglobin A1c, maybe it's 5.2or 5.3.
It's really quite good.
And a fasting blood sugar of 91, 89.
But my gosh, if you challenge them with 75 grams of glucose, you know, they may bediabetic for an hour.
And there's a genetic reason for that, right?
(30:23):
They are slow on the TCF7 gene and a couple of other genes there that they actually don'tget the increase in signals that glucose has hit the intestine to actually stimulate
insulin release in a timely manner.
And so the sugar...
for them can spike up to 180 or 200.
It shouldn't go over 130, right?
(30:44):
So they're like diabetic for an hour.
And then when they push out the insulin, instead of maybe their fasting insulin was fourand it should go up maybe no more than four or five times, let's say it should go to 20,
it may shoot up to 60 or 80, right?
In fact, we had a young woman in here who developed MS, had developed MS, she had justgraduated high school and her insulin level shot up over 200.
(31:11):
Right, right.
So the thing about insulin is that it's aging you very quickly, right?
It actually accelerates the aging process and the aging of your arteries.
So being able to understand your genetics around how you manage glucose and then what yourinsulin levels are doing is super important.
And wearing a continuous glucose monitor may not tell the story because you may controlthe blood sugar just fine.
(31:36):
But in order to do it, your insulin is 10 times what it should be.
So you're still not really getting the full information.
So that's why we think it's super important to do that test.
And in the era of GLP-1s, it's also interesting that I think it's acromantia in the guthelps us produce natural GLP-1.
(31:58):
So you can think probiotic.
metabolic or GLP-1 probiotic that actually will boost the population of those bacteria toaugment your GLP-1.
So if you're trying to get off your GLP-1, if you're taking one, by boosting the bacteria,just like you can boost GABA to sleep better, you can boost your endogenous GLP-1 to help
you control not only your blood sugar, but your appetite and other things, right?
(32:22):
Yes, yes.
The gut microbiome is communicating in all sorts of ways in terms of how many calorieswe're burning and do we even want to exercise?
Do we have cravings to your point?
And I just have to say, you know, when you said diabetic for an hour, you know, I most gotchills because it's that's such a poignant way of looking at it that it's easy to miss
(32:44):
unless you're doing the appropriate tests.
and, the gut microbiome plays a role.
Absolutely.
We're just learning more and more about this.
So it is, think, and who doesn't want, to be metabolically flexible.
That's kind of a buzz phrase right now.
I know that seems very appealing to me.
That's, seems like a non-negotiable if you want focus on Longevity.
(33:06):
So metabolically flexible.
This is a really interesting concept.
It has to do with the ability to eat from a wide variety of different sources and have a,not have a negative impact from it.
Right.
It's, training yourself to be metabolically flexible.
You can burn fat, you can burn carbs, you can do all these things and do it in a healthyway.
(33:27):
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
Do you have a tendency to get hangry?
Yeah, well I did, you know, so I did when I was in medical school and it was, you know,I'm learning about all this stuff and to that point we've come a long way since then in
terms of the microbiome.
But, you know, skipping a meal in some cases when I was really stressed and I was not veryactive because all I was doing was going to school and studying was very uncomfortable,
(33:53):
you know, feeling nauseous, feeling irritable.
That's where the angry part comes in for hangry.
Um, and then I started lifting weights, you know, that's the game changer is strengthtraining.
And of course we need some cardiovascular exercise also.
but yes, yes, I think I'm definitely prone and there's a genetic component to your point.
Also, my dad is type two diabetic.
(34:14):
And so it's a huge priority of mine, um, to understand that there are things in mycontrol.
And then there's kind of a predisposition, which makes it a bigger priority for me.
so I know hangry, but I know you can reverse it too.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's a great point.
What other, what other points would you like to bring forward on the, uh on the gut tumor?
(34:34):
Sure.
Yeah.
Well, I wish that we had a visual here, but again, the infographics are great.
They're really a beautiful teaching tool.
So for practitioners out there who feel like you want to draw out on, maybe you have awhiteboard in your exam room and that's fantastic.
Well, this is already drawn out for you in the report.
(34:54):
So, and we're superimposing the results within the infographic.
So it's quite sophisticated in terms of saying this inflammatory marker, let's just say,calprotectin is circled in red because it was too high for that particular patient on this
report.
So really helpful there.
And I just, I feel that you can get so much insight in terms of the categorization ofwhere the microbes fall in terms of risk.
(35:19):
So again, it's not just GI, but it's metabolism, it's neuro, it's hormones.
Hormones is another piece that we could, another rabbit hole we could go down.
But you're getting insight in terms of multi-system impact from the microbiome on thistest.
It's great.
talk to us about hormones.
uh We're familiar with beta-galactosidase as being uh important.
(35:40):
It's a molecule found in the gut.
I believe it's produced by E.
coli.
And maybe that's right.
I'm not sure.
But beta-galactosidase is a big deal because when you're metabolizing your hormones tobreak them down and get rid of them, they're excreted through the stool.
And a glucose molecule has been attached to the
hormone metabolite for excretion, marking it for excretion, and beta-galactosidase willcome along and snip off that glucose molecule, and then you end up reabsorbing that
(36:10):
hormone metabolite, which can have some detrimental consequences for you in terms ofbreast cancer risk, endometrial cancer risk, prostate cancer risk, things like that.
So being able to measure that is really important.
Yes.
Yes.
And so we're measuring beta-glucuronidase, but we also have beta-galactosidase producingbacteria measured on the test as well.
(36:33):
But the direct measurement beta-glucuronidase, yes.
And so I think about the conjugation of the toxins in the estrogen as a little anchor, ifyou will.
And I'm an educator at this point, so I think it's helpful to paint these pictures andgive these analogies for folks.
And so if your conjugate or your anchors pulled off,
(36:55):
of that estrogen, uh it's not going to come out in the stool because the anchor has beenpulled off.
So now it's going back into enterohepatic circulation.
And it was in the stool for a reason.
We're supposed to get rid of it, like you said.
So we don't want higher beta-glucuronidase.
And if you see that, maybe in a patient you weren't even considering hormone testing for,a further assessment would be the hormone zoomer is a urine.
(37:18):
hormones test, which also looks at endocrine disrupting chemicals.
So that one's very comprehensive as well.
But yes, that's an insight that you maybe wouldn't glean otherwise in terms of poordetoxification of estrogen and toxins.
So are there things that you can do?
I know there's uh calcium deglucurate can be uh taken to basically neutralize thebeta-glucuronidase, but is there a way to actually decrease its production?
(37:46):
So.
So my two cents there, we all have opinions.
It's an issue of the microbiome.
So in a pinch, calcium duglucurate is great for maybe your premenopausal female who hasPMS, dysmenorrhea.
She's got clotting with periods.
And so this is what we typically think about as estrogen dominance.
(38:09):
She's clearly struggling.
And now you see she's got elevated beta-glucuronidase.
Can we inhibit that?
enzyme and get her some relief with calcium deglutcrate in the short term.
I say absolutely, there's a time and a place.
But I see it as symptom support.
So I wouldn't use it long term and I would say ultimately we have to get her microbiome inorder because that's where the enzymes coming from largely.
(38:33):
Yeah, exactly.
So then the question becomes, how do you get the microbiome in order?
Is there other probiotics?
Does this come back to more fiber or?
ah
So again, I would start with digestion.
We are assessing digestion on the stool test.
So you do get a pancreatic elastase, which is a standard marker.
You're also getting a fat malabsorption panel, which is really cool because you can lookat the pancreatic elastase and you say, okay, well, it's not too low.
(39:00):
Maybe it's suboptimal.
So maybe it's in this mildly low range.
And you start to question, is this patient producing enough lipase?
So the cross-examining, if you will, would be to look at the fat malabsorption panel tolook for excess fat in the stool, which might be further evidence that they're not
producing enough lipase in addition to that mildly low elastase.
(39:21):
And so evaluating digestion is the first thing I do.
After looking for a pathogen, of course, right?
We want to, that is really the first thing.
Don't miss the pathogen.
You know, if they're inflamed, they have high calprotectin and you're scratching your headand you're getting nervous and you're ready to write a referral.
Make sure you look at the pathogen report because there's a lot of stuff on this test.
(39:41):
So that's the first thing.
And then I look at digestion.
So if digestion is not in order to your point about hydrochloric acid, that's veryimportant.
And I love the conversation of meal time hygiene.
which is again, not very exciting or revolutionary, but can we sit down and enjoy the foodand what kinds of techniques are there?
(40:02):
One of my favorites, and this was passed on from a provider who we had on our podcast.
She said, put on one of your favorite songs.
You know, if you're working all day, something.
Something from childhood, you know, I think we all have those songs from our earliestchildhood memories.
You hear it instantly.
Walking on broken glass for me is one of those.
My mom would put it on and we'd dance in the kitchen.
(40:24):
And instantly it takes me out of my work mode and it puts me into my digest, myparasympathetic.
And I love that.
Very cool.
No, that's very cool.
yeah.
you Annie Lennox, right?
What do you do?
I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, to maybe get into, get ready to eat.
(40:46):
Yeah.
I usually grab something and start chewing.
That's typically what I do.
But I tend to eat out some and then I eat at home.
And again, when I go to the store, I try to get a wide variety of different plants tobring in.
But eating for me has always been
(41:07):
Like if I never had to eat again, I'd be actually fine with that.
Like, I know some people like, some people almost live to eat.
Like they plan a whole vacation around where they're going to eat.
Um, for me, food is more fuel than it is anything.
and literally if I didn't have to eat, I'd actually be fine.
If I could just take a pill, I'd, I'd actually be fine with that.
(41:28):
That being said, I have a sophisticated palette and I can enjoy.
Hmm.
a whole wide variety of things.
I'm a very adventurous eater at the same time, right?
I enjoy that.
But I don't have a big routine.
I was listening to you talking about putting on music and things like that and doing alittle dance before you eat.
(41:48):
I don't know.
Maybe I'll have to try that on and see how it works.
Right.
It's just something that's so quick.
And I think there's some neural pathways.
I'm sure I can't speak to that.
it reminds me of scent, how certain scents can immediately make you think of a memory.
And I think it's very powerful.
(42:10):
Yes.
You know, one of the things you talked about with being able to identify fat in the stoolthat's not being absorbed is it's really critical when we find that because we know that
people may not be absorbing their fat soluble vitamins.
Right.
And so that's a big that's a big deal.
So making sure that people are getting enough of the fat soluble vitamin and also able todigest it.
(42:36):
So if you're listening to this, this is another thing that a healthy person, you know, youmay be taking your vitamin D, but if you haven't checked your vitamin D levels, you know,
it may be because you're losing some of it in the stool.
Right.
And then on top of that, there are genetics, a number of different genes, VDR genes andother ones that have to do with how well the vitamin D can actually interface with your
(42:58):
genome.
Vitamin D is not really a vitamin, it's actually a hormone.
So it goes into the DNA, it goes into the nucleus of the cell and it's actually modulatinggenetic expression.
And being able to take sulforaphane, which comes from broccoli or broccoli sprouts,particularly when it's combined with myronase to activate it, can up-regulate those genes
so that you're actually getting the benefit of the vitamin D when you take it or when youconsume it in a vitamin D enriched food, right?
(43:24):
This whole thing is it's important to understand that food, we're talking about food anddigestion.
It's really important.
I always like having a conversation with people that food is actually information.
We think of it as calories, something to burn or some, or a nutrient, something that weneed, right?
For energy production and the mitochondria with the B vitamins or whatever else, butactually it's all information.
(43:48):
And when you start to think about it as information, it's like, well, what information doI need?
And is the gut biome, is it working in concert with me to give my body the information itneeds to actually live a healthy life?
Right.
So.
Right, yes, and that's epigenetics, which is also fascinating.
And how do we influence what we're born with and maybe show up the best we can with whatis in our control as opposed to what's not in our control?
(44:18):
yes, such a great point there.
Nutrient status is, and again, another reason why it's for everybody.
We need to make sure our nutrient status is intact.
Just to, if we're feeling great, we're going to the provide your
primary care provider because you say, I'm just here for a checkup.
We want to continue feeling great.
(44:38):
It's very simple when you think about it that way.
There's another element to feeling great, which is that, many times we'll normalize whatit is to feel good.
Right.
In other words, and then, um, if people come in to see us and they say, well, I actuallyfeel good.
I'm actually good.
It's like, okay, great.
Well, let's, you know, let's kind of look at some things and see where things are at.
(45:02):
And then you figure out, well, here's an opportunity and here's an opportunity and here'sone.
And you actually address those opportunities.
whether it's hormone optimization or gut health or decreasing inflammation or, whatever itis, boosting NID for that matter.
All of a sudden people are like, my gosh, I feel great.
Right.
And I didn't realize, I didn't realize that I didn't feel great until I felt great.
(45:23):
Right.
So ah it's, it's really fascinating that we normalize the way we feel.
So if you're listening to this and it's like, no, but I feel good.
Why would I want to do that test?
You can actually typically feel better than you do.
ah
So that's an interesting piece of this as well.
Yeah.
yes, we want to optimize and I think about, just think about people going to bed so lateand, you know, sleep again is another thing that we could talk about in terms of the gut
(45:49):
microbiome.
And we have our habits, right?
So waking up feeling sluggish, feeling that we're not energized and ready to start ourday, we're relying on coffee so often.
And so I think that that's just an example of how this can become overlooked.
I mean, if you can wake up naturally,
Mm-hmm.
to an alarm and feel that you're ready to start your day and you're looking forward to itwithout a stimulant.
(46:12):
I think that that's a really nice way of maybe trying to understand that there's alwayssomething that we could improve possibly.
And I think that's empowering too.
Tell us, maybe the last thing we'll address is talk a little bit about alcohol.
What's the impact of alcohol on the gut, gut health, things like leaky gut.
(46:34):
Yeah, and what we found is that we can never fix somebody with leaky gut and bacterialovergrowth or yeast overgrowth if they continue to drink.
oh
It's not that we have anything against alcohol.
It's just that the alcohol, those bacteria and those yeast love that.
And it's really difficult to clean things up if alcohol keeps coming in.
(46:54):
ah So it's an interesting phenomenon.
Yes, yes, it's toxic, you know, really is what we think about typically with alcohol.
And so it impacts, of course, our liver.
And it's going to be really hard.
It's that obstacle is what I'm hearing you're saying that some people have a harder timegetting over than others, even if they're eating a very nutrient dense diet with plenty of
(47:16):
fiber.
But yeah, I think there's with
We can talk about moderation and, you know, kind of the curiosity is a red wine and theantioxidants there in your field I'm curious about, but yeah, there's a give and take
there.
Well, there's yeah, there's polyphenols in red wine, of course.
And there's very small amounts which can be helpful in red wine.
(47:38):
But we tend to see that alcohol in general has more negative effects than it does positiveeffects with the exception.
Yeah, with the exception of inducing an enzyme in the liver.
that actually metabolizes alcohol.
And it turns out that having more of that enzyme decreases the level of other alcoholsthat our body produces.
(48:01):
And that's associated with Longevity benefit.
So having some of this aldehyde alcohol enzyme will actually
has been associated with uh Longevity.
So the way I get a little bit of alcohol is drinking some kombucha, which has a trace ofalcohol in it, which is enough to stimulate the enzyme production.
And, um and yet I don't think has much impact on my gut and I don't drink it all the time,but it's, it's the way I handle alcohol.
(48:27):
Sure.
That's a clever way of going about it.
And fermented foods, again, we haven't really touched on probiotics a little bit, butkombucha is a fantastic fermented product.
It's a beverage for those of you who don't know.
think most people know at this point, but yes, I love that along with, Kim cheese, one ofmy favorite fermented food items.
And even if you heat it up and this was mentioned again in that, that episode I listenedto prior on your show.
(48:53):
um You still get benefit even if you're heating up these fermented food products withpost-biotics.
um So there's so much good to come from all the things that we're consuming, if they'rewhole foods and I think so many people, shy away from fermented foods.
You say sauerkraut and they run the other way.
(49:13):
Me too.
dehydrogenase was the name of the enzyme I was thinking of.
So by stimulating alcohol dehydrogenase with a little bit of alcohol, that's got aLongevity benefit.
But apart from that, I'm not sure that the alcohol really does does much so in a positiveway.
And what we do is we just have people abstain for a few months and we can clear up thegut.
(49:35):
And then if they have a bit.
It seems they can kind of maintain it, but it's hard to pull them out of the fire ifthey're continuing to drink.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, and that trial period, if you will, I think a lot of people, learn on their own fromthat experiment.
my gosh, I feel so much better, as you said.
Then they make their own decisions, right?
We're teaching them how to fish.
(49:55):
They feel they feel better.
They sleep better.
They recover better.
Their exercises, routines become, you know, more vigorous and better.
They make more progress.
Their brain is clear.
What I find is kind of the tripping point for a lot of people is the social circles theyrun in.
ah Right.
They it's like, well, the group I run with, you know, they all drink.
(50:17):
And if I'm not if I'm not drinking, they're asking me, why why aren't you drinking?
Right.
I this.
Like there's this peer pressure scenario, which I find
really odd to actually be influenced by any peer pressure at this point in my life.
But apparently that's a real thing.
yeah, well, it's just so many people, go out to socialize and what are they doing?
They're going out to get a drink.
(50:37):
And it's like, can we go for a hike?
Can we go to a painting class?
I don't know.
Can we go to a dance class?
There's so many other great things to do to socialize, but yes, that's one big socialpoint that people need to maybe consider.
Cool.
Well, Emmie, it's been a pleasure chatting with you.
Yeah, I appreciate the updates on the Gutszoomer.
(50:58):
And if people want to order a Gutszoomer, I think you've got a promotion code that we'llput in the show notes where they can click and order a Gutszoomer and get it.
You might need a physician to help you interpret it.
So you'll need to find somebody qualified to look at it.
But that would be a good starting point.
(51:18):
Yes, yes.
And to that point, quickly, we do have clinical lab educators such as myself who canconsult with your healthcare practitioner if you're not one yourself.
ah And that can be very helpful for interpretation and for providers out there listening.
We have a new Vibrant Academy.
The Vibrant Academy is an interactive educational platform on the portal.
(51:42):
And so you can walk yourself through.
how to interpret, you can understand case-based management protocols to address some ofthe findings.
So that's another really nice new tool that we have for you.
That's the Vibrant Academy.
Yeah.
I love you.
I love the commitment to, you know, democratizing the goodness that the test can bringforward.
(52:05):
That's really, it's really commendable.
A lot of labs are not doing that and they're not creating the kind of customizedpersonalized sort of infographics where it's like, well, here's a generic, you know,
hormone panel, you know, metabolite chart or something.
But what we're actually getting is we're getting
the things that are specific to that client.
(52:26):
What's off on the oxidative stress genetics and what's off on the oxidative stress paneland things like that, right?
So yeah, I really commend Vibrant for doing that.
been great.
um Yeah.
All right.
Thanks so much.
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