Girmay Zahilay Outlines Vision for Executive Role

King County Executive candidate Girmay Zahilay details plans for the region's biggest challenges, including homelessness, public safety & housing affordability.

As always, a full text transcript of the show is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.

Follow us on Bluesky at @HacksAndWonks. Find the host, Crystal Fincher, on Bluesky at @finchfrii and find Girmay Zahilay at @girmayzahilay.

Episode Transcript

(00:13):
Welcome to Hacks & Wonks.
I’m your host, Crystal Fincher.
On this show we talk with policy wonksand political hacks to gather insight
into local politics and policy inWashington state through the lens of those
doing the work, with behind-the-scenesperspectives on what’s happening, why it’s
happening, and what you can do about it.
Well, today, we're focusing on apowerful role that often flies under

the radar (00:37):
the King County Executive.
As the top official in Washingtonstate's largest county, the executive
is responsible for both delivering vitalregional services - like Metro transit,
public health, courts, jails, andelections - and managing the day-to-day
operations of county government.
That means overseeing more than15,000 employees, proposing a

(01:01):
multi-billion dollar budget, settingpolicy direction, negotiating labor
contracts, and leading on everythingfrom housing and homelessness to climate
and criminal legal system reform.
If you care about how governmentworks - and whether it works for all of
us - the King County Executive plays acentral role in shaping that reality.
So we are thrilled to welcome KingCounty Councilmember and candidate for

(01:26):
King County Executive, Girmay Zahilay.
Welcome back to the show!
It's good to be here - thank you, Crystal.
Great to have you back.
Well, we are going to get started withthe Lightning Round to begin with.
These are very short yes-or-noor short answer questions.
We ask that you keep your answers short.
If you can't decide between yes or no,we'll just call it a waffle and move on.

(01:49):
You'll, of course, have the opportunityto expand on anything you want to expand
on when we get to the long-form questions.
But we will get started.
Starting out with - Do youown or rent your residence?
Own.
Are you a landlord?
No.
Have you ever been a member of a union?

(02:09):
No.
Have you ever walked on a picket line?
Many times.
Have you ever crossed a picket line?
Absolutely not.
Is your campaign staff unionized?
No, my one campaignstaff is not unionized.
If your staff wants to unionize, willyou voluntarily recognize their effort?

(02:30):
Absolutely.
My one campaign staff - ifshe decided to unionize on her
own - yes, I would support her.
What political party do you identify with?
I'm a Democrat.
Have you used the librarysystem in the past month?
Yes, I had a meetingat the Skyway Library.
Have you or someone in your householdever relied on public assistance?

(02:53):
Very much so.
My whole family - I grew upon food stamps and welfare-
Short form, short form - lightning round.
Yeah.
Have you ever been stopped orquestioned by police in Seattle?
No.
Have you ever worked in retail or ajob where you had to rely on tips?

(03:14):
Yes.
Have you ever owned a business?
No.
Have you ever manageda team of 10 or more?
Yes.
100 or more?
Yes.
Have you ever reported someone'smisconduct in your workplace?
Yes.
Have you ever fired someone?
Yes.
Do you have a favorite sportsteam you actively follow?

(03:36):
Yes.
What is it?
Any team that LeBron is on.
Okay, fellow Lakers fan - okay.
If the Sonics were here,I'd be with the Sonics.
I do miss the Sonics and OKC making itto the finals - it's a little bit of a
gut punch, little bit of a gut punch.
Yep.
Okay.

(03:57):
Do you believe a larger, visible lawenforcement presence is the most effective
way to reduce crime in King County?
No.
Do you believe the size of theKing County Sheriff's office is too
small, too large, or just right?
Currently too small.
Do you support implementationand expansion of non-deputy
crisis response teams?

(04:18):
Yes.
Do you support the use of automatedlicense plate readers in King County?
No.
Do you think facial recognitionshould be banned in county use?
Yes.
Should King County significantly increasefunding for public defenders and services?
Yes.
Do you believe the King CountySheriff's Office budget should be
increased in the next biennial budget?

(04:40):
Yes.
Do you believe the new transit safetytask force legislation will significantly
improve safety on King County transit?
Not on its own.
Should King County prioritizeinvestment in restorative
justice programs over traditionalincarceration for nonviolent offenders?

(05:00):
Yes.
Should King County fund andprovide gender-affirming care?
Yes.
Should King County cooperate with ICE?
No.
Do you support closingthe King County Jail?
No.
Do you support closingKing County's Youth Jail?
No.
Do you commit to maintain orincrease funding for community

(05:21):
violence intervention programs?
Yes.
Do you agree with how former ExecutiveConstantine handled disagreements
over homelessness policy andenforcement with the City of Burien?
No.
Have you ever contested a traffic ticket?
No.
Have you ever served on a jury?
No.

(05:42):
Have you ever been arrested?
No.
Have you taken transit in the past month?
Yes.
In the past week?
Yes.
Do you prefer dogs over cats?
Yes.
What's your favorite season?
Summer.
Do you believe King Countyshould reduce its overall number
of employees to cut costs?

(06:05):
Yes.
Do you believe King Countyrelies too much on contractors?
Yes.
Are you open to privatizing some countyservices if it proves more efficient?
No.
Do you believe King County governmentis currently sufficiently transparent?
No.
Will you provide a base budget analysis ofthe King County budget in your first year?

(06:30):
Yes.
Do you support a 0.1% salestax increase for King County?
Yes.
What should that salestax increase go towards?
Public safety and public health.
Would you support any modifications toSound Transit plans that would delay
existing implementation timelines?

(06:51):
As part of a comprehensive strategy fordealing with the revenue shortfall - yes.
Do you support King County issuing morebonds to fund large capital projects?
Yes.
Would you support tolling on KingCounty roads (beyond the existing toll
lanes) to fund transportation projects?

(07:11):
Yes.
Should King County prioritizeinvestments in pedestrian and cycling
infrastructure over new road construction?
New roads, as opposed to maintainingexisting roads - correct?
Correct.
Then, yes - I support the former.
What's your favorite park in King County?

(07:33):
Seward Park.
What's your favoriterestaurant in King County?
Ooh - Poquitos.
What's the last live performanceyou saw in the county?
They Not Like Us, Kendrick Lamar.
There you go.
In the rain.
In the rain.
In the ice rain on my bald head.

(07:54):
What's your favorite song?
Probably Human Nature, Michael Jackson.
What's your favorite album?
My actual favorite album, Ican't say anymore because I
don't like the artist anymore.
But, I'll say Usher Confessions.

(08:14):
Who is your favorite local artist?
Sir Mix-a-Lot.
What's the last song you listened to?
Probably Backstreet Boys The One.
What's the most recent book you read?
Abundance by Ezra Klein.

(08:35):
What was the last sports eventyou attended in the county?
Mariner's opening day.
What's your favorite cafe?
Boon Boona.
Nice one.
Do you plan to increase funding forinvestigations of labor violations like

(08:56):
wage theft and illegal union busting?
Yes, I want to start anOffice of Labor Relations.
Do large corporations in King Countypay their fair share of taxes?
No.
Do small businesses paytheir fair share of taxes?
Yes.
Do you support the rent stabilizationbill that passed in the most

(09:17):
recent legislative session?
Yes.
Do you support stricter rentstabilization measures in King County?
It depends what that looks like.
Do you support expanding the"Right to Counsel" for all tenants
facing eviction in King County?
All, as in every singleperson who's evicted?

(09:40):
No.
Or do you supportexpanding the legislation?
Yes.
Should King County continue its currentlevel of funding for the King County
Regional Homelessness Authority?
Yes.
Do you support using countyfunds to purchase vacant hotels
for immediate homeless shelter?
Yes.
Do you support the countyplaying a more active role in

(10:02):
regulating short-term rentals?
Yes.
Do you believe King County shouldrequire cities to accept a certain
quota of affordable housing units?
I don't think that's withinour jurisdiction, but I
would want that authority.
What's your go-to karaoke song?
NSYNC, It's Gonna Be Me.
What's your favorite TV show to binge?

(10:25):
Breaking Bad.
First concert you ever attended?
Oh - I
think sometime in my early collegeyears, I went to an LMAO concert.
What's your favoriteSeattle sports moment?
When we went to the '96 NBAfinals as the Seattle Sonics.

(10:47):
What's your favorite comfort food?
Probably Ethiopian food.
Injera.
Are you an early bird or a night owl?
Night owl.
What's a hobby peoplewouldn't expect you to have?
I'm still into all the stuffthat I was into as a kid.
I passively will watch YouTubevideos of Pokémon and WWF and Power

(11:12):
Rangers if that stuff comes on.
I think it's like a nostalgia,emotional comfort thing.
What's your favorite Pokémon?
Charmander.
I'm a Mudkip girl.
What's your favoriteneighborhood in King County?

(11:38):
I grew up in so many SouthEnd neighborhoods, but I'm
trying to pick my favorite
one.
I'll say
Columbia City, Rainier Vista area.
Who's a Seattle-basedartist or musician you love?

(11:58):
Macklemore.
I like his music, andhe's been supportive.
What's a book you wish more people read?
Probably The New Jim Crow.
What's your favorite rainy day activity?
Getting pho with my wife.
What's your favorite SoundTransit station name?

(12:22):
Gotta be Othello.
It's my hood.
Have you voted in every generalelection in the past four years?
Yes.
Every primary in the past four years?
Yes.
Have you made any politicalendorsements that you regret?
Yes.
Who were they?
None that I'm willing to say right now.

(12:44):
I'll waffle.
Have you made any politicaldonations that you regret?
No.
Did you vote to approve the AutomatedFingerprint Identification System
Levy on the April 22nd ballot?
Yes.
Did you vote for Nick Brown orPete Serrano for Attorney General?
My guy, Nick Brown.

(13:05):
Did you vote for Bob Fergusonor Dave Reichert for Governor?
Bob Ferguson.
Did you vote for Trumpor Harris for President?
Kamala Harris.
Awesome.
Well, thank you for your responses- that concludes our lightning round.
So now we'll shift tothe open-ended questions.
So why are you running and what willyour priorities be if you're elected?

(13:30):
I'm running for King County Executivebecause I think that with thoughtful
leadership and strong policies,this region can be a place of
safety and opportunity for everyone.
And I believe in what this placecan be because I've seen what
it was for me and my family.
You probably know my story, Crystal,but my family and I came to the U.S.

(13:51):
when I was three years old, as refugees.
And we settled down here in theKing County area in South Seattle
- low-income housing projects likeRainier Vista, New Holly, back when
it was still Holly Park, Skyway.
And this region gave us the tools- through a strong public sector,

(14:12):
in collaboration with the privatesector - to rebuild our lives.
From refugees who came here andexperienced housing instability and
poverty and homelessness, to going on tograduating from college and law school and
starting a youth development nonprofit andworking in the Obama White House and being

(14:32):
the Chair of the King County Council.
I want that trajectory for everyone, andI believe that the King County Executive
is a powerful platform for being partof the solution to making that happen.
During my time on the council, I've workedreally hard on the types of issues that
impacted my family - from homelessnessto public safety to youth opportunity.

(14:58):
And we've had big regional winsduring my time on the council - from
increasing the minimum wage, to fightingfor stronger tenant protections, to
fighting for workforce housing forour essential workers, to the Crisis
Care Centers Levy, to the YouthAchievement Center, and so much more.

(15:19):
And now I want to take those samevalues around focusing on the people
who are really struggling in thiseconomy, and collaborating and bringing
in new voices to pass really importantlegislation and implement the most
effective policies possible - asthe next King County Executive.

(15:40):
And I believe that if we work together,we can really create a region of
safety and opportunity for everyone.
So, at the beginning of thisyear, the King County budget
faced a $150 million shortfall.
Counties, unlike cities, have morelimited options in their taxing
authority - and King County electedsand department heads have often spoken
for the need for the State Legislatureto provide a solution, as the county's

(16:04):
revenues have not kept pace withrising costs and population growth.
Since the Legislature did not providea fix to King County's structural
budget issues and federal fundingunder threat has only increased the
potential shortfall, how will youconstruct a county budget that provides
services residents can count on?
Yeah, Crystal, I think it's reallyjust - I know you already said it in

(16:26):
your lead up, but just to hammer thepoint home - King County is extremely
limited in what kinds of revenueswe can put forward, or collect.
And also, even in the regressive taxeswe can put forward - that's still
capped at 1% on a year-to-year basis.

(16:48):
So those two restrictions - the inabilityto levy progressive taxes and the 1% cap
on property taxes - both of those combineto create the most devastating impacts
on our financial status as a county,and thereby limit our ability to provide
critical services to our constituents.

(17:08):
And so what I would support - inlight of the circumstances we have, in
light of the tools that we have - isto use the bad tools that we have in
the dire circumstances that we're in.
The Legislature just gave us a newcouncilmanic tax authority through
House Bill 2015 - and that is asales tax, 0.1% sales tax, that will

(17:33):
allow us to fund critical publicsafety and public health initiatives.
And I wrote a letter to ExecutiveBraddock last month saying that we should
urgently use this new tool to raise therevenues we need to fill our general fund
shortfall and keep alive the thousandsof people who rely on our public safety

(17:55):
services and our public health services.
And so I would rely on that sales tax,no matter how bad I think sales tax is.
And then I would continue to advocateaggressively in Olympia to both give
us new, progressive tools that allowus to offset regressive property
taxes and sales taxes, and also helpus lift this 1% cap that is arbitrary

(18:20):
and absolutely not allowing us to keepup with the demand for our services.
So if that sales tax were to beenacted - that you're advocating
for - you talked about it being usedfor public safety and public health.
What specifically, within safety andhealth, do you want to see that spent on?
Well, first and foremost, when DowConstantine left King County, he put

(18:43):
forward a proposal for what wouldneed to be cut if this $160 million
shortfall were to come into fruition.
And those cuts are deep cuts toour Sheriff's Office, deep cuts to
prosecutors and public defenders,deep cuts to the court system.
And deep cuts to our Department ofCommunity Health and Human Services, DCHS.

(19:05):
And so, as a general matter, I wouldwant to avoid all of those cuts - and so
backfilling those is really important.
And then on top of that, Ithink there's so much room for
us to do good in this space.
You know, one data point that I wantto point out that really highlights the

(19:26):
crisis that we're in is - ten years ago,King County did a study called Familiar
Faces, which studied the people who ourmedia calls repeat offenders, the people
who go into our King County jails fourtimes or more in the span of two years.
And that population was somethinglike 2,500 people went to jail four
times or more - cycling in and outof homelessness, addiction, jail over

(19:50):
and over again - and obviously jail isnot working to solve those problems.
What they found out is out of thatpopulation of 2,400, 94% of them
were suffering from overlappingand chronic mental health and
substance use disorder issues - 94%.
74% of that population was receivingno ongoing care, no kind of treatment.

(20:13):
In fact, incarceration was a disruptiveforce to their ability to get care.
And since then, King County's investedin a response to that study called Vital,
which is a partnership across EvergreenTreatment Services, DCHS, Public Health,
to really focus on this populationand give them the care that they need.

(20:34):
But it's still super limited, and- because there aren't enough resources,
there isn't enough housing available forthis community outside of the jail, there
aren't enough behavioral health services.
And so the huge opportunity I see is- this population that is clearly the most
suffering in our region - suffering fromhomelessness and poverty and addiction

(20:59):
and mental health issues, and constantlygoing through incarceration, and is
likely, the community of people, becauseof their issues, are causing a lot
of the public safety and chaos issuesthat we're seeing out on our streets.
Let's focus on that population.
Let's make sure that a program likeVital is fully funded, so that there
is enough mental health resources,enough addiction resources, and enough

(21:22):
housing - so that we're not seeing thesefamiliar faces cycling in and out of
jail and homelessness and addiction.
So homelessness is up 25% over thelast two years, despite the work of
the King County Regional HomelessnessAuthority and other county initiatives,
leading many people to question whetherthe money that has already been spent
was worth it and whether investmentsare being made on the right things.

(21:45):
As executive, how will you evaluate theeffectiveness of the King County Regional
Homelessness Authority and other countyinitiatives, and what specific changes
would you propose to the county's approachto better address the homelessness crisis?
I think it's important that we startoff high-level and look at the state
of housing in our region before goingdown into the homelessness response.

(22:10):
We don't have enough housing in ourregion for our population, so everything
that we've read basically says thathousing is like musical chairs.
We're making a decision that somenumber of people are not going to
be able to afford their homes andthey're going to end up on the streets.
And so before we get tohomelessness response, we have
to increase our housing supply.

(22:31):
We have to absolutely build more.
We have to invest more public dollarsthrough grants and levies and bonding like
my Regional Workforce Housing initiative.
We absolutely have to cut red tape andmake it much easier to build housing.
We have to change our zoning sothat we can build more types of
homes in more places - throughour Comprehensive Plan process and

(22:53):
increase our regional coordinationthrough our comprehensive planning.
We have to streamline our permittingprocess - that means, you know,
making our code easier to read, itmeans increasing our staffing in our
permitting division, and so much more.
And then we should talk about homelessnessresponse - because if our King County

(23:15):
Regional Homelessness Authority wasdoing everything perfectly, but there
were not enough roofs over people'sheads and not enough behavioral
health services, that entity would bedestined to fail from the beginning.
And I think that is-
Okay.
I think that makes complete sense.
And that was actually my next question.
So let's flip it - let'sstart with that, then.
What can you do to make housing moreaffordable in both the incorporated and

(23:39):
unincorporated areas of King County?
Yeah, I think it's absolutely thestuff that I mentioned before.
We need to build more housing.
We need to use our comprehensiveplanning process to make sure that
all jurisdictions in King County arebuilding the requisite amount of housing.
We need to change our zoning so thatrestrictive zoning is not becoming

(23:59):
an obstacle to building more.
We need to find out what red tapeexists, like design review, or
delay - long permitting processes thatincrease the cost of construction.
All of that is part of what aKing County Executive can do to
make housing more affordable.
And then we get-

(24:19):
Are you in favor ofeliminating design review?
Yes, I am - at least asit exists today, for sure.
You know, I want us to do everythingwe can to thoughtfully deregulate
in the urban areas so that we'rebuilding as much housing as possible.
And the same can be true aboutour public transit or any of our

(24:42):
infrastructure capital projects.
You know, I have been a big fanof this new direction that our
progressive community is going.
You know, I know, progressives aregenerally the coalition of process
and inclusivity, and so much more.
But we have to take a step back andask ourselves - in the totality, are

(25:04):
all of the regulations that we areputting on housing, construction and
infrastructure projects - is thatcreating the outcome that we want?
And if it's not, then we dohave to revisit that and reset.
And then when it comes to homelessnessresponse, I think we need a
reset of our King County RegionalHomelessness Authority as well.

(25:27):
Like I said before, I take the criticismswith a grain of salt - in that without
increasing the capacity of our housingand our behavioral health services, that
entity is never going to be successful.
And it's also true that thereis a lot that can be done better
and should have been done better.
Part of that is, you know, theopen opposition to emergency

(25:51):
housing, like Tiny House villages.
We need to include that as partof our strategy, not reject
it - because it is much better forpeople to be living under a roof.
As non-ideal as a Tiny House villageis, it's still better than people
living under a bridge or on a sidewalk.
And so increasing our priority for thattype of housing is really critical.

(26:15):
I also like the direction thatthe entity is going in terms
of streamlining the board.
I think there were too manychefs in the kitchen originally,
so that streamlining is good.
I think having a laser focus onunsheltered homelessness as opposed
to homelessness broadly, I thinkthat re-scoping of their mission
has been in the positive direction.
And just in general, I think that wehave to be more outcomes-oriented.

(26:40):
We cannot celebrate
our success based on how much moneywe've spent or how many new projects
or initiatives we've started.
Our success needs to be measured basedon how many people were stably moved
from the streets and into housing.
How many overdose deaths did we reverse?

(27:00):
How many people have been reunitedwith their families and have stronger
social bonds in their communities?
Those are the things that should measureour success, and I think we have had
a tendency to celebrate dollars spentrather than outcomes in the past.
So is there anything more, asidefrom implementing and including tiny

(27:23):
homes, that can be done to increasethe amount of emergency shelter?
Because I assume you believe there isnot enough emergency shelter currently
available to get people off of the street.
So what can be done to increase theamount of capacity to get people
immediately off of the street?
Well, there's no easy answer,Crystal - because every time we try

(27:46):
to site a shelter or a crisis carecenter, there is massive opposition.
And so the earlier we can stakeholder,the earlier we can bring people in to
be bought in on something that we'retrying to site - the more likely it is
that we'll be successful in siting that.
I think it is also - the responsibility ison King County to show people the positive

(28:13):
outcomes that come from more shelter.
Show people the data behind howmore shelter ends up with fewer
people out in the streets, with morepeople surviving overdose deaths,
with less crime, with less chaos.
The more we can show people that, themore I think we'll have people bought in.

(28:35):
What can you do - you talk aboutstakeholdering earlier - but it
actually seems like, no matter what thestakeholdering process is, at the end
of it, you still have people staunchlyin favor and staunchly opposed to siting
critically needed services near them.

(28:55):
What can be done?
Or how do you decide to movepast that and get beyond that?
How can that process be handled moreeffectively to get something built?
I think we need to havea "yes, and" approach.
We need to site things in themost effective place possible.
And we need to take intoconsideration the valid concerns

(29:19):
that surrounding communities have.
And to me, that looks like goingahead and siting, and also adopting
mitigating measures that will havea positive impact on the community.
Maybe that could meanincreased security in the area.
Maybe that could mean transportation - sothat somebody from far away who comes and

(29:41):
visits a crisis care center or shelter isable to go back to their community or to
their family elsewhere, rather than justbeing dropped off in the middle of this
new location that they've been brought to.
Maybe it could mean a clearer,individualized plan for the Continuum
of Care - meaning that if they receivedcare at a crisis care center or they

(30:04):
received housing at an emergency shelter,that there is strong case management
so that the person can go to whateverthe next step in their journey is.
Rather than what tends to happen now- in which surrounding communities are
very valid in having these concerns- is that you get your treatment or

(30:24):
you get your temporary housing, andthen you're scooted off into that
surrounding community with no next step.
That is also unacceptable.
So having that "yes, and" approach andallowing people the opportunity to have
mitigating measures is really critical.
Does social housing have arole in housing in King County?

(30:45):
Obviously, the City of Seattle recentlypassed social housing legislation and
funded their public housing developer.
Can that work in conjunction withthe county, or should the King
County implement something similar?
King County is implementingsomething similar.
And that was my Regional Workforce HousingInitiative that we put forward last year

(31:06):
and that passed, from my colleagues.
The idea is simple - that we needpublicly owned homes that eliminate the
profit motive so that they can remainaffordable for generations to come.
I think rent will probably stillgo up at a modest pace because
operating costs will go up.

(31:28):
Maybe the costs of servicingthe debt that we take out to
build this housing will go up.
Maybe certain issues in the surroundingcommunity could lead to rising costs.
But it wouldn't be rising costsbecause somebody with a profit
motive just wanted to hike up rentby 20%, 30% year-to-year basis.

(31:49):
And so having publicly ownedhomes is absolutely critical.
Right now, my RegionalWorkforce Housing Initiative is
currently with the executive asthey come up with a feasibility
analysis and an implementation plan.
And I'm hoping that they come back tous showing that this kind of bonding

(32:11):
and public ownership is part of abroader strategy for making housing
more affordable in our region.
And I think the opportunity is hugebecause it's an untapped financial tool,
meaning that King County has room totake out billions of dollars more debt
if we have the revenue to pay off thatdebt without harming our credit rating.

(32:34):
So how do you define public safety,and how do you plan to make King
County more safe for its residents?
Yeah, I define public safety asthe state of being secure - free
from violence and free from thefeelings of impending violence or

(32:58):
crime, both to person or property.
And so I have a very comprehensive planrelated to public safety because this
is an issue that's very personal to me.
I grew up in neighborhoods in SouthSeattle where gun violence was
a regular reality, where people

(33:18):
experienced being robbed andburglarized and so much more, where
so many young people have gotten lostto gang violence and so much more.
And so having a comprehensiveapproach that really focuses on the
communities most impacted is critical.
I think we can't talk about public safetywithout first talking about changing

(33:40):
the conditions that people are growingup in, so that public safety is not an
issue - before violence ever happens.
You know, that means stable housing, itmeans mental health resources, it means
good jobs, it means good education,it means after-school activities and
community centers, and so much more.
And I know that's typically notwhat people are talking about

(34:01):
when they say, What are yougoing to do for public safety?
But it's so important to start off withthat because we can't let that get lost.
When I first got on the council, I satwith the prosecutor's office in 2020.
They showed me a map of whichareas in King County have the
highest rates of gun violence.
And then they showed me a mapof which areas in King County

(34:23):
are the most low income.
And it was almost the same map.
And so that tells you everythingthat you need to know.
Now, we don't live in a utopia.
We don't live in a world where we'regoing to end poverty and trauma tomorrow.
So what do we do in the interim?
I think we have a lot that we can do.
First and foremost, I want to hirea Public Safety Director that is

(34:44):
executive-level, reporting directlyto me, that can coordinate public
safety strategies across all of thedepartments in my administration.
Right now, we have "a public safetydirector" in a sheriff - but a
sheriff leads her own agency, her owndepartment in the sheriff's office.
I want somebody who is broader thanthat, who is going to coordinate public

(35:06):
safety strategies across Metro, andKing County Public Health, and King
County Parks, and the Sheriff's Office.
And really bring things together sothat the left hand is talking to the
right hand - and we're using all of ourresources to promote the public safety.
I also want this director to workwith me on establishing permanent

(35:27):
neighborhood safety workgroups.
Throughout my time on the council- because I represent a district that
is so hard hit by public safety andespecially gun violence issues - I
have organized countless neighborhoodsafety workgroups, whether it's in the
Central District or in Rainier Beach,or in Mount Baker or Little Saigon.

(35:48):
And what these workgroups do is bringtogether all of the different sectors,
all of the different decision makers,all of the different community members
- and have them meet regularly once amonth, focused on that neighborhood
and infusing that neighborhood withall of the comprehensive collaborative
strategies needed to reduce violence.
It's been effective in places likeRainier Beach and beyond - and I want

(36:12):
that to be something that is backed andwell-resourced by an executive office.
So that we have a scientific approach- finding out where are the areas that have
the most public safety issues and howcan we have a comprehensive, coordinated
strategy in each of these neighborhoods.
That's really critical.
Beyond that, I can keep going- this is a big topic, Crystal.

(36:36):
We need to fix our criminal justicesystem, of course, so that people
can get a resolution quickly tothe issues that they're seeing.
We need to have a strong first respondersystem where the appropriate first
responder comes out and respondsto the issue that we're seeing on
the ground, no matter what it is.
If we're seeing mental health andaddiction issue, we need to have

(36:58):
well-resourced mobile crisis responderscoming out and taking care of that issue.
If we're seeing shootings and otheracts of extreme violence, we need to
have a fast, well-trained, reliablepolice force responding to those issues.
We're seeing simple - I don't know - codeenforcement issues, music is too loud.

(37:18):
We don't need a police officer torespond to that - we should have
code enforcement officers that arewell resourced to respond to that.
And of course, we need more mentalhealth resources, stronger addiction
prevention plan, and so much more.
So, your view on whether the King CountyYouth Jail should be closed has evolved.
Initially, you stated that you thoughtit should, and then changed your mind.

(37:41):
Can you talk about that evolutionand what went into your change?
And how do you respond to peoplewho express disappointment
or dismay at that change?
Yeah, this is a really important topic.
I think it is a classic caseof competing public interests.
You know, first and foremost, I think thatwhen we have acts of extreme violence,

(38:09):
like a young person shoots another youngperson, there absolutely needs to be
somewhere secure that they can be heldtemporarily as the situation is assessed.
And I have visited the Youth Jailmany times - where I go downstairs
and into where the cells are.

(38:29):
And for all of the pomp and circumstancessurrounding this jail - around it being
a new way to do things, and for asshiny and cool the top floors are - you
go down to the place where the actualcells are, and it's just another jail.
And I talked to the young people - andthey come out of their cells, and

(38:53):
they tell me they're feeling dizzyand disoriented and unable to manage
their emotions after they comeout of that kind of confinement.
And that's unacceptable to me.
And we know, based on the science,that youth developing brains are
harmed by that kind of environment andbecome more likely to commit crime.

(39:14):
So what do we do in this situationwhere the status quo of what we
have is damaging youth brains?
And we absolutely need a secureplace to hold people after really
serious charges are alleged?
And by the way, this competing publicinterest became even more extreme and

(39:36):
competing through the pandemic, whereyouth violent crime went through the
roof - we had really high rates of gunviolence and much more at the youth level.
And I believe last year webroke our all-time youth firearm
homicide record in King County.
And at the same time - because ofstaffing shortages in our jails

(40:01):
- young people were spending moretime in that kind of confinement.
So if it was a competing publicinterest before in this modern era
- the need for security has gone up,and the need to avoid damaging young
people's brains through long periodsin confinement, that has also gone up.

(40:23):
So what do we do about that?
First of all, I said that what we shoulddo - if you read what I wrote in 2019 - is
close that Youth Jail and set up smaller,secure facilities all over the county.
For some reason, I do think there isa subset of the population who thought
I was saying that we should close theYouth Jail and not have any kind of

(40:45):
secure buildings - even though I'venever said that, and it's well-written
in everything that I've said and written.
So the people that I've heard fromwho think that I'm saying something
different are the people who thinkthere shouldn't be no secure buildings.
And we've never been on the same page.
Now what I'm saying is - what Ikept hearing from the executive's

(41:07):
Care and Closure plan - firstof all, I heard a lot of
people who were let down by thatprocess and not feeling like it was
inclusive and representing their views.
And so I was alreadyskeptical of that process.
But what made me more skeptical is thefact that I don't think the executive

(41:27):
was ever coming out and saying - We aregoing to reform the environments that
our young people are being confined in,and we will also have a secure building.
I think there was way too much ambiguityabout the fact that there would
or would not be a secure building.
I don't want that ambiguity.
I don't want thatconfusion in my community.

(41:48):
Because the communities that Igrow up in - in Rainier Vista,
New Holly, Skyway - they're notadvocating for no secure buildings.
They are being terrorized byshootings, bullets coming into their
apartments hitting young peoplein the head, going into hookah
bars, having mass shootings there.
Rainier Beach parking lot,having mass shootings there.

(42:10):
So they are looking for relief.
They are not saying we shouldhave no secure buildings.
So what I've advocated for is thesame position that I had in 2019,
except we can reform how we dothings within the existing building.
So instead of spending lots oftime and money building entirely
new secure buildings, let's reformthe one that we have right now.

(42:32):
So that we still have a securebuilding, but internally, it's not
just a baby version of an adult jail.
I want it to be more dormitory-style.
I want it to be more integratedwith community-based services,
so youth don't feel isolated andremoved from their community.
I want it to be more therapeutic, morejobs, more education, and so much more.

(42:53):
So I think - in short, I want us to havea secure building and completely reform
what happens in that secure building.
How do you plan to mitigate attackson civil rights, particularly those
that target our trans communityand immigrant communities?

(43:14):
We're living in really scary timesright now, with the Trump administration
fanning the flames of hate and violatingall of our most fundamental values.
And so I believe the next executiveis going to have a huge role
in protecting our values - andthat's exactly what I plan to do.
I plan to use all of the tools in ourtoolkit to protect King County residents,

(43:38):
our economy, and our environment.
First and foremost, I think we need touphold the state law Keep Washington
Working, which says that King County, asa local government, does not have to use
our local resources to facilitate theactions of federal agencies like ICE.
And so I would have a strongtraining program for my sheriff's

(44:01):
deputies, for my jail directors, forour software systems to not assist
unjust actions of agencies like ICE.
Number two, we need to be filinglawsuits, and we need to be
filing lawsuits collectively.
I like that King County has recentlybeen forming coalitions of counties and
cities around the country and filinglawsuits against these arbitrary and

(44:27):
harmful contract criteria that theTrump administration is putting forward.
I know we've been successful recentlyin getting temporary restraining orders.
I want us to continue leaning intothat strategy - forming coalitions with
like-minded localities around the countryand suing the Trump administration so that
we can stop him and his administrationfrom doing harm to our region.

(44:52):
I think we also need to be supportingour Attorney General Nick Brown.
I'm proud to have hisendorsement in this race.
I believe the last time I checked, hewas on his 16th lawsuit against the
Trump administration in just a matterof months, and I want to have a strong
collaboration with his office so thatwe can continue to defend the things
that we care about in King County.

(45:12):
Lastly, we need to put ourmoney where our mouth is.
King County is a funding entity.
We need to fund the community-basedorganizations and the non-profits
that do the work that we careabout and that are supporting
our most vulnerable populations.
We need to invest in organizationsthat support gender-affirming care

(45:34):
for our trans community members.
We need to invest in the nonprofits thatsupport immigrants and asylum seekers
in finding housing and mental healthservices and education for their youth.
We need to fund climate actionorganizations that are seeing
their resources dry up, which willabsolutely have an impact on our

(45:57):
local environment and so much more.
So use our funding to back theorganizations doing the critical
work, and I will absolutely do that.
So when it comes to transportation, youwill have influence over Sound Transit
and direct control over King County Metro.
What can be done to expand and strengthenKing County Metro service and ensure

(46:22):
Sound Transit service is delivered ontime and on schedule safely and reliably?
Yeah, I start off with that valuesstatement, Crystal - I think that everyone
in our region should have access to safe,reliable, frequent public transportation.
It's critical for our environment.
It's critical for our economy.

(46:45):
It's critical for our values becausewe know that the people who are
lowest income and most vulnerablerely on public transit to survive.
Both Metro and Sound Transit are goingto be falling off fiscal cliffs in
the coming years - I believe Metrosooner than Sound Transit, but both.

(47:07):
And in both cases, the revenues thatare coming in are not keeping up with
the cost of doing business - eventhe status quo, but certainly not
for expanding service and capitalprojects that we have in the pipeline.
And so we need to work diligentlyto get those costs under control.

(47:29):
You know, you do that in a coupleof ways - you can increase your
revenue, you can reduce your costs.
And both options are not great - becausein our region, increasing revenues
means increasing regressive taxes.
We don't have a progressive taxoption at King County, and the
state has not given us that.
I would absolutely advocate to Olympiato give us those progressive options

(47:54):
so that we can fully fund our transitservice in our region without putting
it on the backs of working people.
But in light of the environment thatwe're in, we would have to pursue
something like a sales tax throughthe Transportation Benefits District.
Today, we just had our first briefingon a proposal that's being put
forward by Councilmember Dembowskiand Councilmember Sarah Perry, where

(48:18):
they are saying we should tap intoour Transportation Benefits District.
And just to give you a sense for thetough decisions before us, we have
a year where we have many, many newtaxes that we are considering - both
renewals and new taxes - and they'reall for really important things.

(48:39):
And so, in light of that context - of anew criminal justice sales tax, renewing
the Parks Levy, renewing the EMS Levy,renewing the Fingerprint Technology
Levy, and the state has increased taxesand fees on some levels - to introduce
a new tax yet again, that's goingto be a difficult proposition and we

(49:02):
absolutely need to be as well informedas possible, in knowing what would be the
consequence if we didn't increase thistax and what is the impact of this tax?
So we have that as a revenue option,and if we fund it, we can, you know,
fix some of our roads, we can fundsome of our Metro Connects vision to

(49:22):
increase service hours across the region.
And then, in Sound Transit - similardynamic, you know - in the next decade or
so, Sound Transit's revenues are going tofall short of the costs of doing business.
And so I was just at a Sound Transit boardretreat last week, where the new Sound

(49:46):
Transit CEO Dow Constantine, announced anew initiative - the Enterprise Initiative
- to really pursue every tool in our toolkitfor cutting costs, for getting creative,
for pursuing innovation to make sure thatwe're able to continue to deliver our
Sound Transit stations and deliver ourservices in a way that serves everyone.

(50:11):
And I'm looking forward to learningmore about that Enterprise Initiative.
So, in your view, are the challengesthat Metro and Sound Transit
experiencing directly attributable andpredominantly attributable to funding?
Or are there any management issuesor changes in operation that
you think can improve things?
The funding is a huge piece, andwe're living through an era of

(50:37):
extremely high inflation, so thecost of construction has ballooned.
And that's why you see things like theWest Seattle Link extension and the
Ballard Extension - those are all goingto cost much, much, much more, billions
of dollars more than we anticipated.
So the cost of construction is huge.

(50:58):
And then, of course, the fact that welive in a progressive West Coast region,
and we fall to the same kind of dynamicsdescribed in that book that I described
earlier - Abundance by Ezra Klein.
We have lots of local control.
We have lots of regulations.
We have lots of process and that slowsthe process down and increase costs.

(51:24):
And so, absolutely, we all need to getinto a room together and continue to plan.
I like that we have a new EnterpriseInitiative to bring together all
of the different stakeholders toreally say - What can we do better?
You know, which processescan we cut back on?
How can we work together earlier?

(51:45):
How can we have stronger oversight?
How can we have more checkpoints andtransparency so that we can catch
cost overruns earlier so that wecan deliver our projects on time?
You know, there's no magic wand.
We absolutely need to do thebread-and-butter things better.
So life expectancy in some partsof King County is up to 10 years

(52:08):
shorter than it is in other parts.
The longer life expectancies arepredominantly in higher income areas,
shorter life expectancies in lowerincome areas - and experts attribute
that largely to air pollution.
What can be done to mitigatethe public health impacts of air

(52:28):
pollution from roads and airports?
You know, I'm going to answer thisquestion in a way that is much different
than how I would typically answerit - because typically, I would give
you a long, laundry list of policyinitiatives that I've pursued and
that I would pursue as executive.
But I think fundamentally - takinga step back - these issues don't get

(52:53):
better because the communities who areimpacted by them have no political power,
or have very little political power.
You know, as I'm running for King CountyExecutive right now, I have a vantage
point of our political system that alot of people probably don't - because
a lot of people don't run at this level.
But our entire politicalapparatus - ask me how often I get

(53:16):
asked about racial justice in myquestionnaires or in my interviews.
Ask me how often my work as an urbanist,who is focused on racial justice issues,
gets highlighted versus when peopletalk about urbanist ideals - and they
talk about trails and trains and reallyimportant things, but they will basically

(53:41):
discount the things that I've workedon with my community around airport
emissions, around pedestrian safety inSkyway - the lack of sidewalks, around
the Rainier Valley Safety Master Planto make sure that a surface level light
rail on a super fast highway of MLK,where we have the highest rates of

(54:05):
collisions and deaths along that stretch.
How often is that work highlighted,valued, and prioritized?
How often does the broader electoratevote based on who is going to
champion those types of issues?
We have a lot of work to do.
And a lot of it has to do with thefact that our communities don't

(54:25):
have the wealth, don't have thepolitical power or the representation.
And that is systemic, absolutely.
And I believe in personalaccountability, too.
We need to be much better at beingorganized and using our collective
power to put pressure on peoplein power to care about our issues.

(54:48):
And so that's why I've launched thingslike Build the Bench to train people
from our communities up so that theycan better represent themselves.
That's why I've doneBudget 101 Town Halls.
That's why I fought for participatorybudgeting, so that communities
like those in Skyway can fundthe things that they care about.

(55:10):
But really, the model that I tellour communities - whether it's Black
communities, Brown communities, immigrant,low-income communities, especially in
South King - the model that we shouldaspire for is what the unions do.
No individual member of a union ispowerful on their own - these are working
class people, blue collar often - but theyhave found incredibly powerful strategies

(55:38):
for using their collective power to pushtheir weight around and get the things
that they care about for working people.
We need to do that also ascommunities of color, low-income
communities, and so much more - toadvance things like environmental
justice, which are absolutely notuplifted to the same scale as more

(56:04):
traditional climate action policies.
Are there any particular policiesthat you would advance or enact, if
you're elected to be the executive, tomitigate that air and road pollution?
Yes.
First and foremost, I would work to buildup the political power of communities
who are most removed from power.

(56:25):
I would do that through things likeBuild the Bench and Civics 101 Town
Halls, and stronger partnershipswith community-based organizations.
I would also fight for really strongclean energy policies, so that low-income
apartment complexes in our jurisdictionare using clean energy - so that there is

(56:49):
a way of retrofitting existing appliancesso that they're relying on clean energy.
I would make sure that we change ourzoning so that more types of housing can
be built in more places and not just inlarge transit corridors and near highways.

(57:14):
Because a lot of the communities thatI represent - TOD [transit-oriented
development] is a great thing, but ifyou're concentrating all low-income people
along big, highway-like roads like MLK,or building dense apartment complexes like
Creston Point right on top of a highway,that is bad for people's public health.
And so we need to change our zoning sothat more people have access to affordable

(57:39):
housing in more different places.
I also think that we need to takeinto account these disproportional
impacts in our climate planning.
So, when we're talking about the StrategicClimate Action Plan, I want to absolutely
highlight that co-designing our climatestrategies with these marginalized

(58:00):
communities is not an afterthought.
It should be absolutely central to allthe policies that we pursue, all of the
funding that we put forward for climateaction should be - those criteria should
be co-designed with impacted communities.
I also think we need toexpand public transportation.
We need to electrify our fleet.

(58:22):
We need to do so much more justto make sure that communities
are not breathing in toxic air.
Makes a lot of sense.
So we asked both you and Claudia tosubmit questions to ask each other.
Claudia sent in a question, and thisis as follows: Your platform as King

(58:43):
County Executive relies on major newexpenditures, not only a billion dollars
in debt for moderate-income housing,but also 17,000 new emergency shelter
beds - parenthetically, cost unknown - anestimated $30 billion to build out the
full planned Metro bus network, likelytens of billions more in sewer and
other infrastructure just to name a few.

(59:05):
Even without federal rollbacks andstate and local budget shortfalls, this
would be an unprecedented heavy lift.
How do you propose to payfor all of your promises?
I plan to pay for them the same waythat all candidates are saying that
they're going to pay for really criticalinitiatives that are required - and

(59:28):
that is by taking the time to findnew revenue sources and reprioritizing
our existing revenue sources.
And so if you're talking about the billiondollar Workforce Housing Initiative,
for example, I was very clear that I'masking the executive to explore whether
this works and how we can make it work.

(59:50):
From my talking to our Budget Director,what he told us is that we could take
out a billion dollars of loans and notimpact our credit rating whatsoever
- we would still be AAA bond rated.
We actually have capacity to do upto $9 billion of bond issuances.
And I said - Let's try it with $1 billion.

(01:00:11):
Do I know what the executiveis going to come back with?
No.
And that's why I didn't commit us toissuing those bonds at the outset.
What I said is, let's do the analysis,let's do the feasibility study, and
let's make sure that the math works.
And that would be my approachacross all of my plans.
It is to say that theseare my ambitious targets.

(01:00:33):
And we will need either new revenue orto reprioritize our existing revenue.
I think there are plenty of placeswhere we could reprioritize because the
last administration's priorities arenot the exact same as my priorities.
And then when it comes to new revenues,we need to thoughtfully pursue new
revenues, like this new criminal justicesales tax, which I'm a supporter of.

(01:00:54):
Because the alternative to raising salestax - which I don't think is ideal - is to
cut deeply into our critical public safetyservices and that's not an option that
our community can stomach at this time.
And so I would pursue that tax.

(01:01:15):
So in each of these situations,I have ambitious targets
that I will work towards.
I will think thoughtfullywith our financial experts
about which path to pursue.
And I will be very, very transparentwith our communities about the
trade-offs that we have in front of us.
Now we're going back to ourregular Hacks & Wonks questions

(01:01:36):
- thank you for answering that.
Now, the role of the executive isone of being a manager of the entire
county - a very large county, oneof the largest in the country.
King County Executive Dow Constantinepreviously left the position.
How would your leadershipstyle differ from his?
What unique strengths do youbring to the executive role?

(01:01:58):
And what prepares you to be aneffective manager of the county and
all of its departments and people?
I'll start off with how mymanaging style would be different.
And I would begin by saying thatmy experiences growing up in South

(01:02:20):
King County - experiencing housinginstability and homelessness and gun
violence, and so much more, in thesecommunities that are most impacted - I
think that is a unique qualifyingfactor for my position in leadership.
In that I would have strong relationshipswith the communities who are most impacted

(01:02:41):
by these issues, and I would be ableto bring them into the decision-making
process for more effective policy-making.
Number two, I think that my abilityto bring people together more broadly,
beyond just impacted communities,is really effective - as you can see

(01:03:02):
from the number of endorsements thatI've been able to get in my race,
from the Governor to the AttorneyGeneral, to our members of Congress,
who span the full political spectrum.
And I think the next executive isgoing to absolutely have to be able to
bring lots of divergent voices togetherand put them forward on a common

(01:03:23):
path if we're going to solve theseproblems - because King County on its
own is not going to be able to tacklethe scale of issues that we're seeing.
We're going to have to have effectivepartnerships across our suburban
cities, across the state government,across the federal government.
And I believe my endorsements andmy ability to work with people is

(01:03:43):
really, really exceptional here.
And then I also believe that thenext executive is going to have to
work to truly advance a coalitionof building and not of bureaucracy.
By building, this goes back to whatI was talking about - the Ezra Klein
book before - we have way too manyregulations and processes that are

(01:04:08):
slowing the process down for us tobe able to build the housing that we
need, the community centers that weneed, the healthcare that we need.
And I will work thoughtfully toremove as much red tape as possible
so that we can build more quickly.
And lastly, I would say, likely thebiggest difference is my propensity

(01:04:32):
for having boots on the ground.
We have a government - in the eraof remote work - where lots of
people are behind computers, lots ofpeople are removed and disconnected
from communities most impacted.
I would have a strong policy for shiftingas many of my staffing positions as

(01:04:53):
possible to having boots on the ground,to doing community service activities,
doing community cleanups, knocking ondoors of low-income apartment complexes
- getting them plugged into resources,teaching them how King County works,
teaching them how our budget works, andreally making sure that this is an open,
transparent, on-the-ground government.

(01:05:15):
And I don't think it's beendoing enough of that so far.
So, as we move to close this interviewtoday, I think about the number one
question, certainly, that I get whenasking listeners of Hacks & Wonks what
questions they want to ask - a lot of itboils down to, so what is the difference
between Girmay and Claudia, anyway?

(01:05:36):
So as you're talking to voters who aretrying to figure out what you stand for
and how you differ from your opponents- including Claudia - what do you tell them?
How do you guide them abouthow to view you in this race?
Yeah, well, first, I'll start off bysaying - this is not some traditional

(01:05:57):
Democrat versus Republican type of race.
I think Claudia wouldmake a good executive.
And if she wins, I'llbe happy to support her.
I'll say - for me, I want todo things very differently
than how they've been done.
Like I mentioned before, I want toexpand the scope of who participates,
of who is seen, of how we prioritizethe issues that our communities

(01:06:22):
care about most - because I've beenimpacted by those issues personally,
and the communities that I grew upin have impacted by those personally.
When we're talking about the publicsafety crisis, the homelessness crisis,
the affordability crisis - those arethe top three issues in our region if
you poll the community broadly, butespecially if you poll communities in

(01:06:46):
Skyway, South King County, South Seattle.
Those are communities who areexperiencing these issues most acutely,
and I come from these communities andI can partner with these communities.
You know, the clearest example that Ican give you is the public safety crisis.

(01:07:06):
If you recall, I talked to you aboutthe people cycling in and out of our
jails four times or more in that studythat King County did 10 years ago.
That population is something like 40%to 50% Black in a region where our
community is in the single digits, right?

(01:07:28):
Super over-representation.
So the policies that we have topursue - if we are actually going to
solve this problem of familiar facescycling in and out of jail, of our
youth disproportionately being victimsof and perpetuators of gun violence,
of our homeless population beingdisproportionately from our communities

(01:07:52):
- we have to do things differently.
We have to show up with solutionsthat are effective and scientific
and culturally informed.
And I feel that I'm the best person inthis race to advance those policies.
And you can see it from my track record,you can see it from my relationships,
and you can see it from my approach.
And I hope that I can earn your supportas the next King County Executive.

(01:08:15):
Well, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
We sincerely appreciate you takingthe time and sharing where you stand
with our listeners and the public.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Crystal.
Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks,which is produced by Shannon Cheng.
You can follow Hacks & Wonkson Bluesky @HacksAndWonks.
You can find me on Bluesky at@finchfrii - that's F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I.

(01:08:39):
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You can also get a full transcriptof this episode and links to the
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(01:09:02):
Thanks for tuning in - talk to you next
time.