March 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Hacks & Wonks host Crystal Fincher and community leader Monisha Harrell have announced their acquisition of KVRU 105.7 FM, a non-profit, non-commercial community radio station based in South Seattle, with plans to preserve it as a trusted resource in South Seattle through community-driven programming.
As always, a full text transcript of the show is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.
Follow us on Bluesky at @HacksAndWonks. Find the host, Crystal Fincher, on Bluesky at @finchfrii, Monisha Harrell at @moharrell, and KVRU at @kvru.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
Welcome to Hacks & Wonks.
I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm apolitical consultant and your host.
On this show, we talk with policy wonksand political hacks to gather insight
into local politics and policy inWashington state through the lens of those
doing the work with behind-the-scenesperspectives on what's happening, why it's
happening, and what you can do about it.
Be sure to subscribe to thepodcast to get the full versions
(00:34):
of our Friday week-in-reviewshow and our Tuesday topical show
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If you like us, the most helpfulthing you can do is leave a review
wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks.
Full transcripts and resourcesreferenced in the show are always
available at officialhacksandwonks.comand in our episode notes.
So today is going to be aninteresting Hacks & Wonks.
(00:56):
But I'm really excited aboutthis show that we're doing today.
I am being joined by the distinguishedMonisha Harrell - my honor to be
mentioned in a sentence with her,always - and we actually have some news.
You may have noticed that Hacks & Wonkshas been on a bit of an abbreviated
(01:19):
schedule, to put it mildly.
We haven't been following our normalproduction schedule - that's because a
lot has been happening in the background.
And so, you may have seen therecent news that Monisha Harrell
and I recently acquired KVRU.org, anon-profit, non-commercial, community
(01:40):
radio station in South Seattle.
And so we just want to talk about that- talk about why we did it, why we're so
excited about it, and why we feel likenow is the right time to be doing this,
and why it matters to the community.
So thank you for joining me here, Monisha.
Well, I mean, this is like the smallestof the joins - joining together to
(02:04):
do this beautiful work with KVRU.
At the time, I didn't knowhow needed it would be.
And now that we are at a new timeperiod - in the region, in the country
- it feels even more important that wepreserve this great community asset.
I agree.
Certainly, if you would have asked me ayear ago - Would I see myself here today?
(02:31):
- would not have been onthe radar, on any map.
Obviously, I have been doing the same workI've been doing for quite some time and
have enjoyed it, have had this radio show.
But the opportunity that this presented,like you said, to preserve this asset for
the community has been really important.
So I guess we can startfrom the beginning.
(02:52):
I don't know how many of you are aware,but Hacks & Wonks actually got its start
on KVRU - as strictly a radio show.
It actually started off - I tookover a show called The Fifth Estate,
that had been created by MarcusHarrison Green and Hanna Brooks Olsen.
(03:13):
That eventually Mike McGinn,former mayor of Seattle, took over.
And I took over thatshow from Mike McGinn.
Met really cool people at the station,including the program manager there,
Maurice Jones, Jr., who produced my show.
I had not done any radio or talk showor anything before - so really, Maurice
(03:37):
was so helpful in getting started.
And so that is what began my familiaritywith the station and that relationship
continued for several years.
Had you worked with the station before?
I had - familiar with KVRU, familiarwith it as a strong community asset.
(03:57):
And had the opportunity to work on aspecific set of programs with them as
a - I don't know - host, the intervieweron a set of programs that was focused
around climate and preservation andwater quality for diverse communities.
(04:19):
And so, was part of kind of designingand setting a - what they would
call nowadays a limited series.
And had my opportunity to beinvolved and engaged with the
station during that time period.
And so I knew the potential - Iknew the potential of the station,
(04:40):
I knew that leadership comesin waves and ebbs and flows.
And so I knew the history andwas familiar with it and the
people who had come before.
And so, thought in this timeperiod - Well, what an interesting
concept - when Crystal reached out.
And first of all, you probably couldhave asked me almost anything and
(05:01):
I probably would have said yes.
Ditto.
So that was kind of like a - Well,that sounds like a great idea
- particularly because it's you.
But then, also knowing that there arefewer independent, open, non-monetized
ways to reach the community.
And the thing about being anonprofit entity is that we don't
(05:26):
have to do anything for shareholdersor anything along those lines.
We're able to provide value directlyto the community for the purpose of
providing value directly to the community.
Absolutely - and that iswhat stayed in my mind.
When I first saw SEED's officialannouncement - SEED, Southeast Effective
(05:49):
Development Seattle - they're a non-profitorganization that does a number of things,
including affordable housing development,a number of arts programs and projects.
And they found themselves wanting toessentially sell - but really kind
of more thoughtful than that - handoff KVRU to someone who they were
(06:12):
confident would steward it correctly.
It was really important to both of us thatwe maintain this asset for the community.
SEED had originally acquired thelow-power FM license for KVRU in
2017 and began operations there.
(06:32):
I started with the showat the station in 2018.
And really, had seen flashes of thestation really achieving its potential.
There have been times where suchan impressive and incredible
and deep and diverse roster ofprogrammers - DJs, talk show hosts,
multilingual programmers there.
(06:55):
And just a real community focus,a real community station full
of volunteers all pitching into serve the community, really.
And that had also alwaysseemed really cool to me.
And like - Hey, this iswhat community is about.
These are hubs of community.
And really an underappreciatedone, an underutilized one, one that
(07:18):
flies under the radar to a lot ofpeople - but is absolutely essential
to so many people in the community.
Radio is still a free resource- free information, no paywall,
no fee to tune in and join.
It is there for free foreveryone on public airwaves.
And this is truly for the people.
(07:40):
And I think we need to maintainso many of those resources - and
particularly this in South Seattle,with a physical footprint in South
Seattle - it was really important.
So SEED, over the years, reallyhad not anticipated the kind of
commitment themselves that theradio station would really take.
(08:01):
They initially had a partnerway back in the beginning.
That partner didn't quite pan out.
And so they were left and did a reallyadmirable job of picking up the slack
there and really investing in the station.
They ran a huge capital campaignjust to build the station.
It's got three differentstudios - live broadcasting,
(08:22):
production, recording studio.
They're right off of Rainier Avenuein South Seattle, between Columbia
City and Mount Baker - just a reallycool location, cool things going
on - great studio and assets there.
But long term, it just didn'treally fit in with their vision.
So when they made the announcement,I wasn't - kind of stuck in
(08:45):
the back of my head and it justwouldn't, it just wouldn't leave.
And just the mounting concern that thisis an asset of the community that could
disappear was really just unacceptable.
So I called Monisha.
Because as many of you know, Monishais who I want to be when I grow up.
Just the body of work that Monishahas done, her commitment to community,
(09:11):
her ability to pull together diversecoalitions, her always staying true to her
word - watching her operate for the past15 years has just been that, steadily.
And it's no surprise she has ledall of the organizations that have
been involved with doing somethingseemingly in the community.
(09:34):
I mean, just a resume that's hard tobelieve comes from just one person.
But if you know Monisha,it makes perfect sense.
And so, especially with her involvementwith the station before, it made
sense to reach out and say - Hey,do you think this is something
that we can put together and do?
So what'd you think when I'm like- Okay, so hey, you want to do this?
(09:57):
So I just want to say that I hopethat you save this for my eulogy.
Because just - save it, play it, andthen let people go get some food.
One of the things that was importantto me - so first of all, I know that
Crystal does not do anything halfway.
(10:18):
I know that if Crystal wascalling me about this project, I
knew that it was a real project.
It wasn't just a - Let me talk about it.
Like I knew that there was a planin place, and I knew that there were
designs drawn up three differentways, and that we had depth, and that
conversations had already been underway.
(10:40):
But more importantly was I knewthat we had similar values and
ethics related to what we wantedto do with this community asset.
Not just that it would be a free assetto maintain for the community that would
(11:00):
provide value, but that that would bea trusted asset - trusted information,
trusted resource for the community- especially at a time period right now
where there's so much, there truly isso much misinformation in the world.
To be able to provide a media resourcethat could be trusted and had the best
(11:25):
interests of community in mind - I knewthat that was a key for both of us.
And so having similar values andsimilar ethics - which I'm learning
later in life, is more and moreimportant to where and how I spend my
time and energy - but knowing that Ihad that similar baseline with Crystal
(11:49):
was really the key to saying yes.
Because I knew that we were approachingit from a very similar perspective
- you're approaching it from a place oflove and respect for the community,
and wanting to be able to providefor those who are traditionally
(12:10):
left out of media considerations.
A place where people would knowthat they are a part of our growth.
We talked a lot, Crystal, about howbuilding this with community is a
really big key to KVRU's future.
That it wasn't the two of us at this top,but that as members of the community,
(12:38):
we would be looking to build alongsidepeople and making sure that this was
shared - shared power, shared resource.
And so that was the part that Ididn't even have to think about - I
knew we shared that vision.
And so being able to, again,it was kind of like one of
those - You had me at hello.
(12:58):
And so, it made it really easy again tojump on board with this particular project
because of the things I knew we sharedin common from a values perspective.
Well, I appreciate that.
You know the feeling ismutual - that's why we're here.
But you talked about - especiallyat a time like this.
And certainly when these conversationsstarted - was before a lot of
(13:24):
recent major events have happened.
But what I do know is that, as you talkedabout, there's so much misinformation
and division - in lots of differentways, and in ways that go beyond
two parties, that are really justtearing at the fabric of our society.
(13:49):
And what I know in my bones isthat connecting within community
is the way through and beyond that.
And this really being an asset thatcan help make that happen, that
can help connect our community,that is really - like you said - a
platform for all of us to build.
(14:12):
But that platforms South Seattlepeople, voices - real people from the
community talking about their lives,their experiences, their perspectives.
Place for the culture - all of ourcultures - where we're respected, and
(14:32):
we can share, and learn from each other.
Music from our communities - DJs,culture, bands, artists - and we
can learn from and connect withpeople across our communities.
And just hang and be - we've lost somuch of that, whether it's an epidemic
(14:52):
of loneliness that's been reported on orso many of the ways that we're feeling
disconnected - we've lost so many placesand elements in our community that used
to provide that, that just no longer do.
Yeah, that's part of the challenge, right?
We've had just the perfect storm of badevents and energies that have led to
(15:18):
a lot of, I think, apathy - people notunderstanding, not even feeling like we
have places to authentically be ourselves.
And I think talking with people versusat people - I think there's a lot of
media out there that talks at people.
(15:39):
I think that there's a lot of isolation- people not being able to bring their
whole selves to a conversation.
You and I, we talk on a range of subjectsthat people may or may not expect.
But we can go everywhere from politics- regional, local, and national - to
(16:00):
comics - regional, local, and national.
And actually not just be worried aboutthe things that are going wrong or that
are feeling precarious, but also talkingabout solutions and what we can do
about it - empowering people through theknowledge that we can bring them, right?
(16:22):
So that people don't have to feelhelpless or talked down to, or - one of
the things that I think people who areinsecure in themselves like to do, is
they'll talk over somebody else's head.
I think creating a platform for peopleto speak with others, connect with
others, showcase the best of ourcommunity - not shy away from the problems
(16:46):
and the challenges that we face, butnot leave people with here's a problem
and now just feel helpless about it.
But here's a challenge and how can we worktowards a better future for all of us?
So I think that being able tobe a part of that - it's really
(17:08):
inspiring and encouraging.
And I actually think, for all of theisolation that occurred through a lot
of us-versus-them narrative, throughpandemics and sicknesses, through
- whenever there's a lot of economicstress, people have to focus on getting
food on the table and keeping a roofover their heads - and so these are all
(17:30):
things that cause fissures and division.
And so, an ability for people to tap backin through KVRU, the ability for people to
recognize the beauty and humanity in thosearound them, see the light again - that
maybe can be hard to see when all you'rehit with is negativity every single day.
(17:53):
If on any given day, the station reachesone person - makes one person feel
connected, or at home, or with theircommunity - then it makes all of the
other trials and tribulations really worth
it.
It really does.
And I think we are in a positionright now to do that really
(18:17):
well within this community.
I know one thing that we both takeseriously is being a member of the
community, the station being a memberof the community - from our block,
to South Seattle, to everywhere else.
We're on the first floor of a seven-storyaffordable apartment complex - that's
our community - we're members of thatcommunity, and they're part of our circle.
(18:40):
We're starting there.
And building throughout South Seattle.
So this is really everybody,and it has informed our approach
to how we're starting this out.
Lots of times, when people do thingslike this, they come out with - And
here's our slate of programming andhere's our premier, kind of flagship
(19:02):
programs and this is what we're doinghere and this is what we're doing there.
We aren't there yet.
And we made a very consciousdecision to say we aren't going
to dictate this programming.
We aren't going to definewhat this is ourselves.
We're going to do this inpartnership with the community.
And so, part of this conversationthat we're having truly is a
conversation with you listening tosay - ask what ideas that you have.
(19:27):
What kind of shows do you want to hear?
What show might you want to do that we cantalk about and work and get onto the air?
Who do you know?
What talents do you have?
Hey, help us do this thing.
We've got plenty of volunteer roles anda ton of capacity that needs to be met.
Donations, certainly - we've gotta fundthis operation on an ongoing basis.
(19:51):
So there's a lot to do together.
But we do have a vision of whatthis could be - from music to
conversation, talk and news, to sportscoverage from local high schools and
beyond, multilingual broadcastingand conversation - because we speak
(20:12):
different languages in this community.
And that can be a point ofconnection, not separation.
We have a lot on the docket,but we want to do it with you.
When you think about just thisbuilding process, what excites you?
You know, I have spoken to so many peopleand I'm like - That should be a show.
(20:33):
That should be a show.
You should do that show.
And I'm not blowing smoke at people - Isincerely have talked to so many
people, and I know that what they couldshare with community would be both
interesting and I would tune in, right?
I would tune in to hear whatpeople are able to bring forward
(20:57):
- so many different talents.
And I myself have had more ideas for- I could do this and this and this.
And the amazing part is - every singleone of the things I want to do, that I
want to showcase is the ability to bringin others and showcase their talents.
People who I've met in community whoI'm like - More people should know you,
(21:19):
more people should know about you, morepeople should know about your work.
And I'm excited to be able toshine a little spotlight on a
lot of our talent - because wedon't get a lot of the good news.
We don't get a lot of that great feeling.
And sometimes when I'm stuckin the doom spiral, I get a
(21:40):
little - Man, what am I doing here?
Like, what's going on?
How are we gonna - but then I realizewhat the gifts that people have around us.
And that a lot of what I'm feelingat times is just disconnection from
(22:04):
good people, who - each one of them intheir way is doing something amazing
in community that just other people,maybe I or others, didn't know about.
And then I find out about it and I think- how come more people don't know about you?
Because these aren't thestories that we normally get.
(22:25):
Of course, I'm still reallyexcited - when we're not running
formal programming - about the music.
Who has not wanted to be a little DJ?
Who has not wanted to be - you heardthat song, you're driving in the car,
you're singing, and you're like - morepeople should know about this music.
(22:46):
More people should know about this song.
I was talking to a group of young peopleyesterday, ranging from high school
to college, and they started talkingabout - like they heard some song for the
first time that was a late-70s classic,and they'd never heard it and they're
like - Oh my god, this song is so goodand I'm like I've never heard this before.
(23:09):
And I thought - Oh my goodness,the poor children are growing up
without knowing things that theyshould know, like they should know.
We're losing recipes!
Oh my goodness-
And I'm glad that Kendrick's got a songcalled "luther" because I'm like - Listen,
the children should know about Luther.
If I say Luther and they don'tknow who I'm talking about,
(23:30):
they need to learn about Luther.
So they can turn into KVRU atsome point - learn about Luther.
They should know the classics.
They should know the hits.
If they haven't heard some Lou Rawls,some Teddy Pendergrass - I mean, I
know we're going to get it covered.
And then the great opportunity forme to be exposed to music that I
(23:51):
haven't heard or become familiar with.
There is a lot of artists across theworld who have followings in South
Seattle that I'm not plugged into yet.
And so I am open and like - whatam I going to turn on and listen to
on the station that is going to bemusic that somebody else might have
(24:12):
grown up with, that I'm just gettingexposed to for the first time, and
now I have a new favorite artist.
So everything from talk to music, Ifeel like we're going to be able to
open the door for a lot of peopleto discover things outside of
their immediate roles and worlds.
I agree.
That is so fun.
(24:33):
I mean, the music aspectalone - my father was a musician.
You know, I had band practicegoing on in the background for
a large percentage of my life.
And just even, you know, the shows whereI hear music that I grew up on, that
I remember hearing them play in bandpractice, or hearing my dad jam to - just
(24:54):
stuff from the radio when I was younger.
It's just a little party.
It's just, I mean, for thosewho have been in the studio
with me, it's a little party.
I have a hard time sitting still halfthe time with the music going on.
But it's just really cool.
I love the team thatwe're doing this with.
You know, we've talked about you and me,but another member of the team - you all
(25:16):
may know well - Shannon Cheng, Dr. ShannonCheng, who you who listen to Hacks & Wonks
are certainly familiar with, who hasproduced this show for quite some time.
And hosted a few Hacks & Wonks showsin her time - great shows, by the
way, you should listen to them.
But also Maurice Jones, Jr., whohas been with the station since 2018
(25:40):
and is part of our new venture hereas we continue with the station.
And he has just been such a consistentmentoring force, defining the musical
direction and authenticity of the station,ensuring that it really - that local
voices are cultivated and platformed.
(26:03):
And is just such a wealthof knowledge and experience.
The station would not still existwithout him and his efforts.
Kind of the ebb and flow in thehistory of the station - it's gone
through various iterations before.
And for a large part of the lastyear, Maurice has single-handedly
- literally, just him - beenkeeping the station on the air.
(26:27):
So to have him as part of thisalso is very, very meaningful
to me and to all of us.
And he, in and of himself, isan institution, an asset to the
community - a Grammy award-winningartist also, in his own right.
And, you know, incredibly talentedstudio engineer who just loves nothing
(26:48):
more and is just supremely talentedat imparting the wisdom that he has
and the passion that he has to otherpeople, especially younger people.
So also we have plans to bring in theeducational component - to bring that
back and train youth and all the stuffthat's going on from all the broadcast
(27:11):
equipment and processes to audioengineering, working with our - we say
new media, even though it's like 20 plusyears old at this point - but current
media landscape, operating within that.
So we're just really, reallyexcited moving forward.
So when it comes to what we'reasking people to do right
(27:33):
now - what is it that we're asking?
I mean, the build with us is real, right?
The build with us is not just tactical.
It's also - dream with us.
What could this be?
What do you think this could be?
We talked about the programming.
The programming - everything that helpspeople from mental health supports,
(27:56):
sharing good news, sharing informationthat people should have, helping make sure
that people are aware of opportunitiesavailable to support the community - to
radio and culture, like help us expand ourown knowledge bases and grow as people.
Because I have this theory that ifyou are not growing, then you're,
(28:19):
you know, you're dying, right?
Like life is is one of those things thatyou just - my grandfather just passed
a couple weeks ago - and what I willsay in that is that even in his last
weeks, he continued to be literallythe definition of a lifelong learner.
(28:40):
He was still watching television showsthat he thought he could learn from.
He was still absorbingand taking in information.
And so I think if he was stilldoing that at 93, certainly I think
everybody listening to us can continuetheir learning and growth journeys.
(29:01):
And fun - like I want us to have fun.
And that's part of the joy of music,like the music aspect of a station,
which is - What do we create?
What do we build?
What brings us joy?
It doesn't always have to belike a deep and thoughtful piece.
It could be something like, youknow, TLC's What About Your Friends.
(29:23):
I mean, it could be justwhat brings you joy, right?
Just something that makes you rememberthat you still got a little Electric Slide
in you, or something along those lines.
And so I want everybody who islistening to us to think about
- What can I do to contribute?
How can I be a part of the KVRUcommunity and what is being built there?
(29:49):
Because I think everybody has somethingto contribute - and I think and hope
that people will find community, willfind universal acceptance, will find
a sense of belonging with this KVRUfamily that we are building together.
So, you know, I just hope it promotespeople dreaming of what we can do.
(30:13):
And then coming forward tobring those dreams forward.
That's so well said.
I am so there and am excited about this.
And just want to double downon the fun aspect of it.
It is so important to claim joy whereverwe can find it - that is part of what
sustains us and carries us through.
(30:34):
It's absolutely necessary.
And I'm really excited to justdiscover what whimsical and
ridiculous and interesting andfascinating ideas people come up with.
Because like you said, everybodyhas something - it could just be
like, You know, this is kind ofwild, or I feel like I'm the only
(30:55):
person interested in this, perhaps.
But what about this?
Have you thought about this?
We want to hear all of that.
We want to talk about all ofthat - all of the subjects.
You're listening to Hacks & Wonks.
You're a wonky individual- odds are - like I am.
And sometimes, you know, insome spaces, it's that 24-7.
(31:18):
We're a lot bigger than thatand have a lot more going on.
And that is very important, certainly.
I believe that.
But we need the rest of it, too.
And that's what really builds community.
That's really what culture is.
And so we're very excited about that.
So please visit KVRU.org and check us out.
(31:40):
Listen to the livestream right now - weare pre-programmed music until we
get with you guys and hear what yourideas are and work through those
shows and get them up on the air.
But we're very excited for what'shappening next and excited to
be - I'm excited to be doing thiswith you, Monisha, and very excited
(32:00):
to be doing this with the community.
I could not ask for abetter partner in this work.
And we still haven't figuredout what our titles are.
So, if you as a public have ideason titles - I was trying to explain
to somebody, I'm like - Well, mypartner, I mean, like not my wife.
I have a wife, but not my - like mybusiness partner, Crystal, right?
(32:21):
So we need - we need titles.
I mean, you know, if you know me inreal life, you know me and titles.
I hate-
I've never loved them either.
I've just never loved titles personally.
I do what I do with otherpeople, and it's all good.
We're figuring it out - youknow, all of that.
But but yes, you may notice wedon't have titles on the website.
(32:44):
We've talked it through, and we'vearrived just where that is - without any.
And I'm actually okaywith that - personally.
It does complicate theexplaining to others part.
Yeah.
Well, and especially, it's kindof - we get real slick with language.
And I'm like - No no, I knowwe've moved past partners.
But I'm like - And no,but I have like a wife.
(33:07):
But this is not my wife,this is different person.
Yep yep yep.
So here we are - this is what we're doing.
This is why, this is whatI have been working on.
And these things take time and go oncircuitous routes as they're negotiated.
And putting this together and figuringit out and transitioning stuff turned out
(33:28):
to be very time consuming and involved.
Very interesting.
And lots of fun aspects - some aspectsnot so fun - but lots of fun aspects.
But that is why Hacks & Wonkshas not been publishing on its
regular schedule recently - justkind of figuring that all out.
And there's still a few things tofigure out with exactly how this
(33:50):
is slotting into the station.
I will admit it is - for me - feelsa lot more fun to talk about other
people's potential programs than my own.
I still say - Give thepeople what they want.
The people want a lot of different things.
I am people.
But, that's where we're at.
(34:10):
So thank you - we'll get back on schedule.
We've got a lot to talkabout legislatively.
We've got a lot to talk aboutin every single category of
things that we talk about.
You know, I typically don't talkmuch federal politics and policy
on this show, but what's happeningfederally is impacting a lot
(34:30):
on the state and local levels.
We'll be talking about allof that in upcoming shows,
but appreciate you listening.
Please feel free to reach out tous - again, kvru.org, the website.
If you want to reach out tome - crystal@kvru.org, or just hit
up info@kvru.org with anything.
We can just, you know, open upa conversation - chat it out.
(34:52):
But yeah, that's where we're at.
There's nobody else I'd ratherbe on this journey with.
Thank you for inviting me along,and I'm looking forward to what the
community will bring this station andthis great asset to South Seattle.
All right, we're doing it.
We're doing this, everybody.
We're doing this together.
(35:13):
Come and build with us.
We'll talk soon.
Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks,which is produced by Shannon Cheng.
You can follow Hacks & Wonkson Twitter @HacksWonks.
You can catch Hacks & Wonks on everypodcast service and app - just type
"Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar.
Be sure to subscribe to get the fullversions of our Friday week-in-review
shows and our Tuesday topical showdelivered to your podcast feed.
(35:37):
If you like us, leave areview wherever you listen.
You can also get a full transcriptof this episode and links to the
resources referenced in the showat officialhacksandwonks.com and
in the podcast episode notes.
Thanks for tuningin - talk to you next time.
Welcome to Hacks & Wonks.
I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm apolitical consultant and your host.
On this show, we talk with policy wonksand political hacks to gather insight
into local politics and policy inWashington state through the lens of those
doing the work with behind-the-scenesperspectives on what's happening, why it's
happening, and what you can do about it.
Be sure to subscribe to thepodcast to get the full versions
(00:34):
of our Friday week-in-reviewshow and our Tuesday topical show
delivered to your podcast feed.
If you like us, the most helpfulthing you can do is leave a review
wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks.
Full transcripts and resourcesreferenced in the show are always
available at officialhacksandwonks.comand in our episode notes.
So today is going to be aninteresting Hacks & Wonks.
(00:56):
But I'm really excited aboutthis show that we're doing today.
I am being joined by the distinguishedMonisha Harrell - my honor to be
mentioned in a sentence with her,always - and we actually have some news.
You may have noticed that Hacks & Wonkshas been on a bit of an abbreviated
(01:19):
schedule, to put it mildly.
We haven't been following our normalproduction schedule - that's because a
lot has been happening in the background.
And so, you may have seen therecent news that Monisha Harrell
and I recently acquired KVRU.org, anon-profit, non-commercial, community
(01:40):
radio station in South Seattle.
And so we just want to talk about that- talk about why we did it, why we're so
excited about it, and why we feel likenow is the right time to be doing this,
and why it matters to the community.
So thank you for joining me here, Monisha.
Well, I mean, this is like the smallestof the joins - joining together to
(02:04):
do this beautiful work with KVRU.
At the time, I didn't knowhow needed it would be.
And now that we are at a new timeperiod - in the region, in the country
- it feels even more important that wepreserve this great community asset.
I agree.
Certainly, if you would have asked me ayear ago - Would I see myself here today?
(02:31):
- would not have been onthe radar, on any map.
Obviously, I have been doing the same workI've been doing for quite some time and
have enjoyed it, have had this radio show.
But the opportunity that this presented,like you said, to preserve this asset for
the community has been really important.
So I guess we can startfrom the beginning.
(02:52):
I don't know how many of you are aware,but Hacks & Wonks actually got its start
on KVRU - as strictly a radio show.
It actually started off - I tookover a show called The Fifth Estate,
that had been created by MarcusHarrison Green and Hanna Brooks Olsen.
(03:13):
That eventually Mike McGinn,former mayor of Seattle, took over.
And I took over thatshow from Mike McGinn.
Met really cool people at the station,including the program manager there,
Maurice Jones, Jr., who produced my show.
I had not done any radio or talk showor anything before - so really, Maurice
(03:37):
was so helpful in getting started.
And so that is what began my familiaritywith the station and that relationship
continued for several years.
Had you worked with the station before?
I had - familiar with KVRU, familiarwith it as a strong community asset.
(03:57):
And had the opportunity to work on aspecific set of programs with them as
a - I don't know - host, the intervieweron a set of programs that was focused
around climate and preservation andwater quality for diverse communities.
(04:19):
And so, was part of kind of designingand setting a - what they would
call nowadays a limited series.
And had my opportunity to beinvolved and engaged with the
station during that time period.
And so I knew the potential - Iknew the potential of the station,
(04:40):
I knew that leadership comesin waves and ebbs and flows.
And so I knew the history andwas familiar with it and the
people who had come before.
And so, thought in this timeperiod - Well, what an interesting
concept - when Crystal reached out.
And first of all, you probably couldhave asked me almost anything and
(05:01):
I probably would have said yes.
Ditto.
So that was kind of like a - Well,that sounds like a great idea
- particularly because it's you.
But then, also knowing that there arefewer independent, open, non-monetized
ways to reach the community.
And the thing about being anonprofit entity is that we don't
(05:26):
have to do anything for shareholdersor anything along those lines.
We're able to provide value directlyto the community for the purpose of
providing value directly to the community.
Absolutely - and that iswhat stayed in my mind.
When I first saw SEED's officialannouncement - SEED, Southeast Effective
(05:49):
Development Seattle - they're a non-profitorganization that does a number of things,
including affordable housing development,a number of arts programs and projects.
And they found themselves wanting toessentially sell - but really kind
of more thoughtful than that - handoff KVRU to someone who they were
(06:12):
confident would steward it correctly.
It was really important to both of us thatwe maintain this asset for the community.
SEED had originally acquired thelow-power FM license for KVRU in
2017 and began operations there.
(06:32):
I started with the showat the station in 2018.
And really, had seen flashes of thestation really achieving its potential.
There have been times where suchan impressive and incredible
and deep and diverse roster ofprogrammers - DJs, talk show hosts,
multilingual programmers there.
(06:55):
And just a real community focus,a real community station full
of volunteers all pitching into serve the community, really.
And that had also alwaysseemed really cool to me.
And like - Hey, this iswhat community is about.
These are hubs of community.
And really an underappreciatedone, an underutilized one, one that
(07:18):
flies under the radar to a lot ofpeople - but is absolutely essential
to so many people in the community.
Radio is still a free resource- free information, no paywall,
no fee to tune in and join.
It is there for free foreveryone on public airwaves.
And this is truly for the people.
(07:40):
And I think we need to maintainso many of those resources - and
particularly this in South Seattle,with a physical footprint in South
Seattle - it was really important.
So SEED, over the years, reallyhad not anticipated the kind of
commitment themselves that theradio station would really take.
(08:01):
They initially had a partnerway back in the beginning.
That partner didn't quite pan out.
And so they were left and did a reallyadmirable job of picking up the slack
there and really investing in the station.
They ran a huge capital campaignjust to build the station.
It's got three differentstudios - live broadcasting,
(08:22):
production, recording studio.
They're right off of Rainier Avenuein South Seattle, between Columbia
City and Mount Baker - just a reallycool location, cool things going
on - great studio and assets there.
But long term, it just didn'treally fit in with their vision.
So when they made the announcement,I wasn't - kind of stuck in
(08:45):
the back of my head and it justwouldn't, it just wouldn't leave.
And just the mounting concern that thisis an asset of the community that could
disappear was really just unacceptable.
So I called Monisha.
Because as many of you know, Monishais who I want to be when I grow up.
Just the body of work that Monishahas done, her commitment to community,
(09:11):
her ability to pull together diversecoalitions, her always staying true to her
word - watching her operate for the past15 years has just been that, steadily.
And it's no surprise she has ledall of the organizations that have
been involved with doing somethingseemingly in the community.
(09:34):
I mean, just a resume that's hard tobelieve comes from just one person.
But if you know Monisha,it makes perfect sense.
And so, especially with her involvementwith the station before, it made
sense to reach out and say - Hey,do you think this is something
that we can put together and do?
So what'd you think when I'm like- Okay, so hey, you want to do this?
(09:57):
So I just want to say that I hopethat you save this for my eulogy.
Because just - save it, play it, andthen let people go get some food.
One of the things that was importantto me - so first of all, I know that
Crystal does not do anything halfway.
(10:18):
I know that if Crystal wascalling me about this project, I
knew that it was a real project.
It wasn't just a - Let me talk about it.
Like I knew that there was a planin place, and I knew that there were
designs drawn up three differentways, and that we had depth, and that
conversations had already been underway.
(10:40):
But more importantly was I knewthat we had similar values and
ethics related to what we wantedto do with this community asset.
Not just that it would be a free assetto maintain for the community that would
(11:00):
provide value, but that that would bea trusted asset - trusted information,
trusted resource for the community- especially at a time period right now
where there's so much, there truly isso much misinformation in the world.
To be able to provide a media resourcethat could be trusted and had the best
(11:25):
interests of community in mind - I knewthat that was a key for both of us.
And so having similar values andsimilar ethics - which I'm learning
later in life, is more and moreimportant to where and how I spend my
time and energy - but knowing that Ihad that similar baseline with Crystal
(11:49):
was really the key to saying yes.
Because I knew that we were approachingit from a very similar perspective
- you're approaching it from a place oflove and respect for the community,
and wanting to be able to providefor those who are traditionally
(12:10):
left out of media considerations.
A place where people would knowthat they are a part of our growth.
We talked a lot, Crystal, about howbuilding this with community is a
really big key to KVRU's future.
That it wasn't the two of us at this top,but that as members of the community,
(12:38):
we would be looking to build alongsidepeople and making sure that this was
shared - shared power, shared resource.
And so that was the part that Ididn't even have to think about - I
knew we shared that vision.
And so being able to, again,it was kind of like one of
those - You had me at hello.
(12:58):
And so, it made it really easy again tojump on board with this particular project
because of the things I knew we sharedin common from a values perspective.
Well, I appreciate that.
You know the feeling ismutual - that's why we're here.
But you talked about - especiallyat a time like this.
And certainly when these conversationsstarted - was before a lot of
(13:24):
recent major events have happened.
But what I do know is that, as you talkedabout, there's so much misinformation
and division - in lots of differentways, and in ways that go beyond
two parties, that are really justtearing at the fabric of our society.
(13:49):
And what I know in my bones isthat connecting within community
is the way through and beyond that.
And this really being an asset thatcan help make that happen, that
can help connect our community,that is really - like you said - a
platform for all of us to build.
(14:12):
But that platforms South Seattlepeople, voices - real people from the
community talking about their lives,their experiences, their perspectives.
Place for the culture - all of ourcultures - where we're respected, and
(14:32):
we can share, and learn from each other.
Music from our communities - DJs,culture, bands, artists - and we
can learn from and connect withpeople across our communities.
And just hang and be - we've lost somuch of that, whether it's an epidemic
(14:52):
of loneliness that's been reported on orso many of the ways that we're feeling
disconnected - we've lost so many placesand elements in our community that used
to provide that, that just no longer do.
Yeah, that's part of the challenge, right?
We've had just the perfect storm of badevents and energies that have led to
(15:18):
a lot of, I think, apathy - people notunderstanding, not even feeling like we
have places to authentically be ourselves.
And I think talking with people versusat people - I think there's a lot of
media out there that talks at people.
(15:39):
I think that there's a lot of isolation- people not being able to bring their
whole selves to a conversation.
You and I, we talk on a range of subjectsthat people may or may not expect.
But we can go everywhere from politics- regional, local, and national - to
(16:00):
comics - regional, local, and national.
And actually not just be worried aboutthe things that are going wrong or that
are feeling precarious, but also talkingabout solutions and what we can do
about it - empowering people through theknowledge that we can bring them, right?
(16:22):
So that people don't have to feelhelpless or talked down to, or - one of
the things that I think people who areinsecure in themselves like to do, is
they'll talk over somebody else's head.
I think creating a platform for peopleto speak with others, connect with
others, showcase the best of ourcommunity - not shy away from the problems
(16:46):
and the challenges that we face, butnot leave people with here's a problem
and now just feel helpless about it.
But here's a challenge and how can we worktowards a better future for all of us?
So I think that being able tobe a part of that - it's really
(17:08):
inspiring and encouraging.
And I actually think, for all of theisolation that occurred through a lot
of us-versus-them narrative, throughpandemics and sicknesses, through
- whenever there's a lot of economicstress, people have to focus on getting
food on the table and keeping a roofover their heads - and so these are all
(17:30):
things that cause fissures and division.
And so, an ability for people to tap backin through KVRU, the ability for people to
recognize the beauty and humanity in thosearound them, see the light again - that
maybe can be hard to see when all you'rehit with is negativity every single day.
(17:53):
If on any given day, the station reachesone person - makes one person feel
connected, or at home, or with theircommunity - then it makes all of the
other trials and tribulations really worth
it.
It really does.
And I think we are in a positionright now to do that really
(18:17):
well within this community.
I know one thing that we both takeseriously is being a member of the
community, the station being a memberof the community - from our block,
to South Seattle, to everywhere else.
We're on the first floor of a seven-storyaffordable apartment complex - that's
our community - we're members of thatcommunity, and they're part of our circle.
(18:40):
We're starting there.
And building throughout South Seattle.
So this is really everybody,and it has informed our approach
to how we're starting this out.
Lots of times, when people do thingslike this, they come out with - And
here's our slate of programming andhere's our premier, kind of flagship
(19:02):
programs and this is what we're doinghere and this is what we're doing there.
We aren't there yet.
And we made a very consciousdecision to say we aren't going
to dictate this programming.
We aren't going to definewhat this is ourselves.
We're going to do this inpartnership with the community.
And so, part of this conversationthat we're having truly is a
conversation with you listening tosay - ask what ideas that you have.
(19:27):
What kind of shows do you want to hear?
What show might you want to do that we cantalk about and work and get onto the air?
Who do you know?
What talents do you have?
Hey, help us do this thing.
We've got plenty of volunteer roles anda ton of capacity that needs to be met.
Donations, certainly - we've gotta fundthis operation on an ongoing basis.
(19:51):
So there's a lot to do together.
But we do have a vision of whatthis could be - from music to
conversation, talk and news, to sportscoverage from local high schools and
beyond, multilingual broadcastingand conversation - because we speak
(20:12):
different languages in this community.
And that can be a point ofconnection, not separation.
We have a lot on the docket,but we want to do it with you.
When you think about just thisbuilding process, what excites you?
You know, I have spoken to so many peopleand I'm like - That should be a show.
(20:33):
That should be a show.
You should do that show.
And I'm not blowing smoke at people - Isincerely have talked to so many
people, and I know that what they couldshare with community would be both
interesting and I would tune in, right?
I would tune in to hear whatpeople are able to bring forward
(20:57):
- so many different talents.
And I myself have had more ideas for- I could do this and this and this.
And the amazing part is - every singleone of the things I want to do, that I
want to showcase is the ability to bringin others and showcase their talents.
People who I've met in community whoI'm like - More people should know you,
(21:19):
more people should know about you, morepeople should know about your work.
And I'm excited to be able toshine a little spotlight on a
lot of our talent - because wedon't get a lot of the good news.
We don't get a lot of that great feeling.
And sometimes when I'm stuckin the doom spiral, I get a
(21:40):
little - Man, what am I doing here?
Like, what's going on?
How are we gonna - but then I realizewhat the gifts that people have around us.
And that a lot of what I'm feelingat times is just disconnection from
(22:04):
good people, who - each one of them intheir way is doing something amazing
in community that just other people,maybe I or others, didn't know about.
And then I find out about it and I think- how come more people don't know about you?
Because these aren't thestories that we normally get.
(22:25):
Of course, I'm still reallyexcited - when we're not running
formal programming - about the music.
Who has not wanted to be a little DJ?
Who has not wanted to be - you heardthat song, you're driving in the car,
you're singing, and you're like - morepeople should know about this music.
(22:46):
More people should know about this song.
I was talking to a group of young peopleyesterday, ranging from high school
to college, and they started talkingabout - like they heard some song for the
first time that was a late-70s classic,and they'd never heard it and they're
like - Oh my god, this song is so goodand I'm like I've never heard this before.
(23:09):
And I thought - Oh my goodness,the poor children are growing up
without knowing things that theyshould know, like they should know.
We're losing recipes!
Oh my goodness-
And I'm glad that Kendrick's got a songcalled "luther" because I'm like - Listen,
the children should know about Luther.
If I say Luther and they don'tknow who I'm talking about,
(23:30):
they need to learn about Luther.
So they can turn into KVRU atsome point - learn about Luther.
They should know the classics.
They should know the hits.
If they haven't heard some Lou Rawls,some Teddy Pendergrass - I mean, I
know we're going to get it covered.
And then the great opportunity forme to be exposed to music that I
(23:51):
haven't heard or become familiar with.
There is a lot of artists across theworld who have followings in South
Seattle that I'm not plugged into yet.
And so I am open and like - whatam I going to turn on and listen to
on the station that is going to bemusic that somebody else might have
(24:12):
grown up with, that I'm just gettingexposed to for the first time, and
now I have a new favorite artist.
So everything from talk to music, Ifeel like we're going to be able to
open the door for a lot of peopleto discover things outside of
their immediate roles and worlds.
I agree.
That is so fun.
(24:33):
I mean, the music aspectalone - my father was a musician.
You know, I had band practicegoing on in the background for
a large percentage of my life.
And just even, you know, the shows whereI hear music that I grew up on, that
I remember hearing them play in bandpractice, or hearing my dad jam to - just
(24:54):
stuff from the radio when I was younger.
It's just a little party.
It's just, I mean, for thosewho have been in the studio
with me, it's a little party.
I have a hard time sitting still halfthe time with the music going on.
But it's just really cool.
I love the team thatwe're doing this with.
You know, we've talked about you and me,but another member of the team - you all
(25:16):
may know well - Shannon Cheng, Dr. ShannonCheng, who you who listen to Hacks & Wonks
are certainly familiar with, who hasproduced this show for quite some time.
And hosted a few Hacks & Wonks showsin her time - great shows, by the
way, you should listen to them.
But also Maurice Jones, Jr., whohas been with the station since 2018
(25:40):
and is part of our new venture hereas we continue with the station.
And he has just been such a consistentmentoring force, defining the musical
direction and authenticity of the station,ensuring that it really - that local
voices are cultivated and platformed.
(26:03):
And is just such a wealthof knowledge and experience.
The station would not still existwithout him and his efforts.
Kind of the ebb and flow in thehistory of the station - it's gone
through various iterations before.
And for a large part of the lastyear, Maurice has single-handedly
- literally, just him - beenkeeping the station on the air.
(26:27):
So to have him as part of thisalso is very, very meaningful
to me and to all of us.
And he, in and of himself, isan institution, an asset to the
community - a Grammy award-winningartist also, in his own right.
And, you know, incredibly talentedstudio engineer who just loves nothing
(26:48):
more and is just supremely talentedat imparting the wisdom that he has
and the passion that he has to otherpeople, especially younger people.
So also we have plans to bring in theeducational component - to bring that
back and train youth and all the stuffthat's going on from all the broadcast
(27:11):
equipment and processes to audioengineering, working with our - we say
new media, even though it's like 20 plusyears old at this point - but current
media landscape, operating within that.
So we're just really, reallyexcited moving forward.
So when it comes to what we'reasking people to do right
(27:33):
now - what is it that we're asking?
I mean, the build with us is real, right?
The build with us is not just tactical.
It's also - dream with us.
What could this be?
What do you think this could be?
We talked about the programming.
The programming - everything that helpspeople from mental health supports,
(27:56):
sharing good news, sharing informationthat people should have, helping make sure
that people are aware of opportunitiesavailable to support the community - to
radio and culture, like help us expand ourown knowledge bases and grow as people.
Because I have this theory that ifyou are not growing, then you're,
(28:19):
you know, you're dying, right?
Like life is is one of those things thatyou just - my grandfather just passed
a couple weeks ago - and what I willsay in that is that even in his last
weeks, he continued to be literallythe definition of a lifelong learner.
(28:40):
He was still watching television showsthat he thought he could learn from.
He was still absorbingand taking in information.
And so I think if he was stilldoing that at 93, certainly I think
everybody listening to us can continuetheir learning and growth journeys.
(29:01):
And fun - like I want us to have fun.
And that's part of the joy of music,like the music aspect of a station,
which is - What do we create?
What do we build?
What brings us joy?
It doesn't always have to belike a deep and thoughtful piece.
It could be something like, youknow, TLC's What About Your Friends.
(29:23):
I mean, it could be justwhat brings you joy, right?
Just something that makes you rememberthat you still got a little Electric Slide
in you, or something along those lines.
And so I want everybody who islistening to us to think about
- What can I do to contribute?
How can I be a part of the KVRUcommunity and what is being built there?
(29:49):
Because I think everybody has somethingto contribute - and I think and hope
that people will find community, willfind universal acceptance, will find
a sense of belonging with this KVRUfamily that we are building together.
So, you know, I just hope it promotespeople dreaming of what we can do.
(30:13):
And then coming forward tobring those dreams forward.
That's so well said.
I am so there and am excited about this.
And just want to double downon the fun aspect of it.
It is so important to claim joy whereverwe can find it - that is part of what
sustains us and carries us through.
(30:34):
It's absolutely necessary.
And I'm really excited to justdiscover what whimsical and
ridiculous and interesting andfascinating ideas people come up with.
Because like you said, everybodyhas something - it could just be
like, You know, this is kind ofwild, or I feel like I'm the only
(30:55):
person interested in this, perhaps.
But what about this?
Have you thought about this?
We want to hear all of that.
We want to talk about all ofthat - all of the subjects.
You're listening to Hacks & Wonks.
You're a wonky individual- odds are - like I am.
And sometimes, you know, insome spaces, it's that 24-7.
(31:18):
We're a lot bigger than thatand have a lot more going on.
And that is very important, certainly.
I believe that.
But we need the rest of it, too.
And that's what really builds community.
That's really what culture is.
And so we're very excited about that.
So please visit KVRU.org and check us out.
(31:40):
Listen to the livestream right now - weare pre-programmed music until we
get with you guys and hear what yourideas are and work through those
shows and get them up on the air.
But we're very excited for what'shappening next and excited to
be - I'm excited to be doing thiswith you, Monisha, and very excited
(32:00):
to be doing this with the community.
I could not ask for abetter partner in this work.
And we still haven't figuredout what our titles are.
So, if you as a public have ideason titles - I was trying to explain
to somebody, I'm like - Well, mypartner, I mean, like not my wife.
I have a wife, but not my - like mybusiness partner, Crystal, right?
(32:21):
So we need - we need titles.
I mean, you know, if you know me inreal life, you know me and titles.
I hate-
I've never loved them either.
I've just never loved titles personally.
I do what I do with otherpeople, and it's all good.
We're figuring it out - youknow, all of that.
But but yes, you may notice wedon't have titles on the website.
(32:44):
We've talked it through, and we'vearrived just where that is - without any.
And I'm actually okaywith that - personally.
It does complicate theexplaining to others part.
Yeah.
Well, and especially, it's kindof - we get real slick with language.
And I'm like - No no, I knowwe've moved past partners.
But I'm like - And no,but I have like a wife.
(33:07):
But this is not my wife,this is different person.
Yep yep yep.
So here we are - this is what we're doing.
This is why, this is whatI have been working on.
And these things take time and go oncircuitous routes as they're negotiated.
And putting this together and figuringit out and transitioning stuff turned out
(33:28):
to be very time consuming and involved.
Very interesting.
And lots of fun aspects - some aspectsnot so fun - but lots of fun aspects.
But that is why Hacks & Wonkshas not been publishing on its
regular schedule recently - justkind of figuring that all out.
And there's still a few things tofigure out with exactly how this
(33:50):
is slotting into the station.
I will admit it is - for me - feelsa lot more fun to talk about other
people's potential programs than my own.
I still say - Give thepeople what they want.
The people want a lot of different things.
I am people.
But, that's where we're at.
(34:10):
So thank you - we'll get back on schedule.
We've got a lot to talkabout legislatively.
We've got a lot to talk aboutin every single category of
things that we talk about.
You know, I typically don't talkmuch federal politics and policy
on this show, but what's happeningfederally is impacting a lot
(34:30):
on the state and local levels.
We'll be talking about allof that in upcoming shows,
but appreciate you listening.
Please feel free to reach out tous - again, kvru.org, the website.
If you want to reach out tome - crystal@kvru.org, or just hit
up info@kvru.org with anything.
We can just, you know, open upa conversation - chat it out.
(34:52):
But yeah, that's where we're at.
There's nobody else I'd ratherbe on this journey with.
Thank you for inviting me along,and I'm looking forward to what the
community will bring this station andthis great asset to South Seattle.
All right, we're doing it.
We're doing this, everybody.
We're doing this together.
(35:13):
Come and build with us.
We'll talk soon.
Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks,which is produced by Shannon Cheng.
You can follow Hacks & Wonkson Twitter @HacksWonks.
You can catch Hacks & Wonks on everypodcast service and app - just type
"Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar.
Be sure to subscribe to get the fullversions of our Friday week-in-review
shows and our Tuesday topical showdelivered to your podcast feed.
(35:37):
If you like us, leave areview wherever you listen.
You can also get a full transcriptof this episode and links to the
resources referenced in the showat officialhacksandwonks.com and
in the podcast episode notes.
Thanks for tuningin - talk to you next time.
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