Legal Documents That Build Your Relationships With Cory Sterling

Cory Sterling is a lawyer. But not any lawyer. Cory is a cool lawyer. A holistic health nut himself, Cory left the shiny and very corporate white-collar world of law to help health professionals set up their businesses in a way that keeps them protected.

 

Your number one protection is going to be watching your language and staying within your scope of practice but a very close second on the list is to have your terms and conditions, waiver, privacy policy, and client agreement all buttoned up (from a legal perspective). Good news – Cory walks us through this in a way that (believe it or not) is kind of fun!

 

Cory’s business, Conscious Counsel, provides legal counsel for creative, ambitious and heart-leading business owners who build communities and make the world a better and healthier place.

 

During our conversation, we get into topics such as the biggest problems coaches have getting started with the legal aspects of the business, how to navigate the law when there is no definition for health coaching, where the biggest issues with the law originate, and what Cory calls the Screenshot Defence. We also dig into how often coaches really get sued, what is and is not in the scope of practice, the legal aspect of supplements and providing diagnostics. And we cover a whole lot more in this fun conversation about the law.

 

Connect with Cory at:

Website: https://consciouscounsel.ca

 

Episode Overview:

0:00 Meet, Cory Sterling: The Cool Lawyer

2:21 Cory's Journey: Choosing Freedom

6:27 Turnkey Solutions: Entrepreneur's Dream

10:09 Managing Client Expectations: Honesty is Key

10:14 Health Coaching Regulations: Language Matters

13:37 Importance of Relationships: Open Communication

18:04 Legal Issues Arising: Misaligned Communication

20:25 Screenshot Defense: Legal Protection Strategy

22:35 Fear of Lawsuits: Scope of Practice

26:26 Reacting to Complaints: Legal Position Matters

.css-j9qmi7{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;font-weight:700;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:2.8rem;width:100%;-webkit-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webkit-justify-content:start;justify-content:start;padding-left:5rem;}@media only screen and (max-width: 599px){.css-j9qmi7{padding-left:0;-webkit-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webkit-justify-content:center;justify-content:center;}}.css-j9qmi7 svg{fill:#27292D;}.css-j9qmi7 .eagfbvw0{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;color:#27292D;}

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Corey Sterling is a lawyer, but not just any lawyer. He's a cool lawyer.
A holistic health nut himself, Corey left the shiny, very corporate white-collar
role of law to focus on helping holistic health professionals set up their businesses
in a way that keeps them protected.
Now, your number one defense against legal proceedings is always going to be

(00:21):
in watching your language and staying within your scope of practice.
But a very close second on the list is having your terms and conditions,
waiver, privacy policy, and client agreement buttoned up.
Kori walks us through this in a very laid-back way that is actually kind of fun.
Hi, I'm Erin Power. And I'm Laura Rupsis. We're Certified Health Coaches,

(00:43):
and this is Health Coach Radio.
This podcast is about the art, science, and business of health coaching.
We share our insider tips to help you become a better coach and entrepreneur.
And we interview expert guests to discover how they've made it in this growing field.
It's time for health coaches to make an impact. It's time for Health Coach Radio.

(01:06):
All right, we got Corey in the house. How are you today, Corey?
Laura, I'm doing fantastic.
I'm so stoked to be here with you and Erin. And like the vibes are already high.
I'm already feeling this energy.
Oh my gosh. We were just talking before we hit record about all the fun stuff that we can discuss.
And we were joking about kombucha and wine glasses and green tea and beer stein.

(01:27):
It's all good, right? It's all about the mindset and the environment. So we are stoked.
And it is about what we consume, isn't it? I think it's pretty apropos that
we happen to just all have these healthy beverages abound while we're talking
about how we can empower health coaches,
how we can provide valuable information and give actionable items that people

(01:48):
can walk away with and understand how to best protect themselves as They navigate
this world of online entrepreneurialism, of health coaching,
and we're here to provide the resources.
That's right. Resources abound. Tools and resources. That's the reason Aaron
and I started this podcast to begin with, which was to help provide information,

(02:09):
inspiration, and actionable ideas and support for folks that want to be health coaches.
And we think you can do that. So we're excited to hear what you have to say,
but we'd like to kick everything off with who you are.
Tell us a little bit about you, your background, your backstory,
and kind of how you got here.
Well, thank you for the invitation. I think everybody loves to speak about themselves.

(02:30):
So I'll just indulge briefly.
And I'm happy to meet everyone who's listening. My name is Corey Sterling.
I'm currently in the town of Preia in the state of Ceará in Brazil. ill.
I rent a house here and I go kite surfing for a couple of months every year.
So I've done that for the last little bit.

(02:51):
And I'm a lawyer. I started a law firm called Conscious Counsel,
which provides heart leading law to fitness and wellness entrepreneurs.
And the idea, the credo behind our law firm is that we're on a mission to make law fun.
That's right. You heard it here first. Law equals fun. Why not?
And I started this whole mission to work online and work with health and fitness

(03:16):
entrepreneurs and make law fun and practice heart leading law.
Five years ago, I used to work for a big law firm. I wore a suit and a tie like
many people you may know.
And then I was just like, I'm out.
I'm done. I'm not doing this. I worked so hard to gain a skill set,
which I could use to help people.
And I decided to be selfish and put myself first and live the life of my dreams.

(03:40):
So the first thing I decided was, one, I'm going to choose all of my clients.
I only want to work with awesome people doing wonderful things who are making
the world a better place. And number two, I'm going to travel the world while I do it.
And I played on a soccer team with lawyers. And like, everyone just close your
eyes and imagine how much fun that would be.
Just all these alpha male lawyers on

(04:01):
a competitive sports team it was that much fun and better and
every single person told me that it would never work and
that people online would never work that hippies didn't have money to pay for
legal services every classic excuse you could think of and I said okay well
I'm still just gonna go and travel and do this online and if it doesn't work

(04:22):
I'll come back and be as miserable as you guys are and I'm happy to say almost six years ago now.
I bought a one-way ticket at the time it was from Toronto to Copenhagen,
and I've just been continuing to travel the whole way since. So nice to meet you.
Great, great story. Fun. What a fun story.

(04:44):
By the way, I saw a guy kite surfing and,
I was on vacation this summer and this guy was kite surfing.
It was a very windy day. It was the Atlantic Ocean in Nova Scotia.
And that looks so hard.
I tip my hat to you. That looks like a very hard extreme sport.
Very challenging physically.

(05:05):
Kite surfing, there's one guarantee about kite surfing.
And kite surfing has taught me more about life and business than a lot of other things that I've done.
The rule with kite surfing is you just have to keep going back out.
Yeah and oh and gradually you will get better it's
the same with like learning a language i got to brazil i didn't speak portuguese i was
terrible i suffered i couldn't explain myself i was

(05:27):
meeting all these amazing interesting people and i knew how to say like i like
rice or food is tasty and you just have to suffer through it and endure and
magically in one moment you come out the other side and then you just realize
like oh i'm jumping in the air and And I'm riding on waves and I'm doing all these things,
but you have to suffer and you

(05:48):
don't have to suffer, but you have to put in a lot of work and be very,
very bad for a long period in order to get to a level of competency.
And maybe being an entrepreneur is the same thing.
Yes. It is an awesome metaphor. And actually that was my thinking when I was
watching this guy kite surf, like it was like, man, that looks hard.
And then, then he, he, you know, he fell, whatever fell, fell, the kite came down.

(06:09):
He was, uh, you know, and I thought, okay, well, surely to goodness,
he's going to wrangle that thing up and go home.
No, you wrangled it up and then got it back in the air, got back up on,
like he, I was exhausted watching him, but it was absolutely an amazing metaphor
of resiliency and perseverance.
So it absolutely tracks what we're talking about today.
I mean, even in your own entrepreneurial journey, it was like,

(06:31):
like branching out and your, your soccer buddies were telling you it's never going to work.
Hippies don't have money. I didn't, I didn't know I was a hippie,
but that's, um, you know, that took courage. I mean, it's,
It takes courage for everybody, for all of us listening to do what we're doing,
to go into something that's uncomfortable, speaking a new language,

(06:52):
like learning the language of Portuguese, learning the language of law,
learning the language of entrepreneurship. It's all a language, right?
I think the language of law is the one that most practicing health coaches will
do the head in the sand thing.
I just don't want to know anything about it. So I'm just, there's a lot of failure
to launch around understanding law.

(07:13):
So where would you start with, I mean, you work with heart-centered entrepreneurs.
What do you see in your practice as being a biggest struggle that people come
up against or seeking your help with generally?
I think there's a couple of different things in terms of what the big problem
is, but you hit the nail on the head,
Aaron, when you said that people want to put their head in their sand and look,

(07:35):
and it is difficult and it is confusing and it's complex And there are very
extreme ramifications and repercussions for what happens when you operate as an entrepreneur,
especially in health coaching, which we'll get into that.
So the stakes are high and it's not easily accessible to understand in a practical
sense what really is going on.

(07:57):
So I think all of those two things combined usually will instill in a person
lack of confidence, lack of initiative and a desire to look the other way and not deal with it.
What I see in working with clients is.
That what everyone is looking for ideally is a turnkey solution.

(08:17):
Think of any problem that you have in this entrepreneurs thrive on turnkey solutions
because, okay, someone has some expertise that I don't have,
and they're able to make this easy, practical, simple, so that I never have to think about it.
Like, and I'll give an example, my relationship with my accountants.
I am not go, I'm not going through every cell on a spreadsheet and understanding

(08:39):
all of these things and all of those things. What do I want with my account?
I want here are my, you know, my bookkeeper does my books. These are my books.
These are what my goals are. This is what I'd like to do. These are my plans
for the next couple of years.
Go ahead and do my accounting. Right. And I think that it would be foolish if
I were to ever, at least for myself, it's not a significant investment of energy

(08:59):
or time to be like, okay, well, I want to learn about accounting.
So let's really get into, and I think it's the exact same thing with law.
What people want, what health coaches want, they want to be protected.
They want to have peace of mind to be able to grow. They want to have as many
clients as they want, and they want to know that they're doing things properly.
And so then the question then becomes is, okay, as a health coach,

(09:19):
should I now study everything there is about the law in order to do this?
Or should I just work with someone who has a turnkey solution?
I answer seven questions on a type form. It takes nine minutes.
And then I have all my legal documents and then I can go back to doing what
I want to do, which is being the change that I believe the world needs, i.e.
Helping people in a certain way, overcome a challenge that I myself had,

(09:43):
and I figured out how to master or pass through this challenge.
And so I want to do that with other people. That's what everyone who's listening
to this wants that. Nobody wants to learn about the law.
I don't think I've ever heard it explained that way. But like when you started
talking about turnkey solutions, it's like, yeah, everyone wants a turnkey solution.
No one wants to figure it out themselves.
And I was getting bummed for a minute. And then it was like,

(10:04):
actually, yeah, I don't want to learn. I don't want to learn about the law.
I don't want to learn about bookkeeping either.
So here's a question I have because.
With health coaching.
There's no regulatory authority at all that says, this is what health coaches do.
Here's what they don't do, period. Like that law doesn't exist anywhere.

(10:27):
There is no law written down that says health coaching definition,
health coaching scope of practice.
There are laws, depending on where you live, that are relevant to a licensed
profession that is regulated,
that can have exclusionary language written in it that forbids people that don't
hold that licensure from doing certain things.

(10:48):
So to make things even more complicated, people go into market as a health coach,
go in and be like, oh my gosh, I just realized I live in the state of Ohio.
And if I'm not careful, I can fricking go to jail versus those who live in like
Texas, isn't it? It's the wild, wild West.
You can do just about anything. You know, however, at the end of the day,

(11:09):
regardless of the regulations, the risks are the the same if you're practicing the same.
So I would imagine the broader your scope of practice is and the more you're
doing, that isn't coaching,
by the way, things like writing prescriptive meal plans and ordering lab tests
and telling people they should be taking certain, your risk goes up for potential

(11:31):
harm versus just focusing on actual behavior and habit change,
which is what health So I would love your thoughts on sort of navigating this
profession that's just not well defined and how you kind of help health coaches figure that out.
So it's not well-defined, you're right. And the rules exist from a place of exclusion.

(11:55):
Because health coaches are not included in any form of regulatory certification
or practice or governmental legislation, which says ABC, and this is what you
do and this is what you can't do.
They exist in a void. And for me, I'm very used to that because almost all of
my clients and the different types of industries that I work with are the same

(12:15):
that they exist in a void. For example, to be a yoga teacher, right?
If I want to be a yoga teacher, I could do a yoga alliance training.
I could do this. I could do that or the other. Or I could just be like,
oh, I've got 100,000 Instagram followers, so I'm a yoga teacher.
Right. And then what's going to happen is I'm going to start working with people
and then the invisible duty of care comes up, which I'll speak about in a moment.

(12:39):
But I just want to provide that as an example. And with health coaching, it's the same.
And one of the most common things that will happen for me is I'll be working
with a personal trainer who has done a personal training certificate.
And they also do meal prep and meal plans and nutrition.
And they don't know, like, okay, you have to be a dietician in order to do that
and that you can't tell people what to do. You can make general recommendations

(13:00):
for best practices and all that sort of stuff.
And people, they're just not really aware of it because you don't intuitively,
you don't think that it exists.
Yet the repercussions are very, very grave.
And so the first thing that I just want to share before we dive into any of
the specifics about what you should do or what you should not do or what you
can do or what you cannot do. And this is really important.

(13:21):
This is like being a real person, legal, practical advice, right? Right.
I think if you go to if you go to another nine lawyers, I think maybe one of
them would say something similar.
But I say just because I know who my clients are and I know the types of relationships
they have. What's what's what's.
And I'm not going to say it's secondary to what your scope of practice is and
what you do and how you do it.

(13:42):
But the most important thing that you have is great relationships with your
clients where you communicate openly and honestly.
Because all of the problems that I have to fix as a lawyer slash therapist,
not right, I'm not a licensed therapist. I'm joking.
But as a lawyer, most of the problems that I have to fix arise from some form
of misaligned communication between two people.

(14:05):
So person A thought person B was going to be doing something and now they didn't.
And there's a whole set of problems around it.
And the thing to know as a health coach, let's just say as an example,
okay, I'm starting a keto brand called Corey Keto and I'm online and I'm doing,
okay, personal training and keto and all of these things, right?
Now, and let's say I'm in the state of Mississippi. This is the question.

(14:27):
Is the government in the state of Mississippi going on Instagram and looking
for Corey Keto and looking to file a complaint against me?
No, that's not how the, if there's going to be a problem, that's not how the
problem is going to arise.
If there's going to be a problem, it's going to be from one of two ways.
One, and I've seen both of these in my practice. And the first one is much more common.

(14:48):
The first is that my client is disappointed, angry, unsatisfied,
felt cheated, felt that I made a misrepresentation, anything like that.
And then they choose to report me. It's the same with like studio owners and
employees or contractors.
The problem always comes from someone making a complaint against you.
So proactively, if you can have amazing relationships with your clients where

(15:09):
you communicate everything up front clearly and everyone's on the same page,
the chances that's like the practical legal tip of reducing the problems that
you're going to have of running into issues with the law.
The second type of complaint you may get maybe from a competitor.
And I've seen that too. And that's just like really bad energy.
That's just not cool to rat on someone else for whatever's happening.

(15:32):
But again, I don't, that's, it's very, very, very rare and negligible in comparison.
But the point that I want to make is if, is the first question,
you know, okay, I'm so confused and
I don't know what to do in my scope of practice and all of these things.
The first thing I'd say is realize the potential, the biggest potential of your
problems arising is going to come from your clients.
And if you can find a way to properly manage that relationship while having

(15:56):
all the a specific legal as best as possible to support you,
then you're already putting yourself in a much better position and chance to succeed.
Yeah, that's super good advice. Really, really true.
I will say, though, that unfortunately, in health coaching, sometimes there
are other regulatory bodies that are kind of seeking out health coaches that

(16:20):
are that they're operating out of scope.
But it does ultimately come back to language.
I always say this comes back to language. If you're a health coach,
I'm a nutritionist in Alberta.
The dieticians of Alberta have taken away the word nutritionist,
so I can't use it anymore. So I can't use that word anymore.

(16:41):
They will hunt down people using the word nutritionist and they'll slap you
with a cease and desist letter because I guess they got nothing better to do.
Don't get me started on of that.
But all it comes down to is me not using that word. I just got to change my language.
So I think that on both examples that you gave, which is you're either a customer who's unsatisfied.

(17:01):
Launches a complaint or maybe some board
dietitian sorry launches a complaint either
way it's a language issue right so you're calling it relationships which i agree
with is the relation the boundaries the relationship well explained does it
is it clear what you do what you don't do so it's relationship slash language

(17:22):
yes it it is and so the the this whole point about relationships and you're right.
And I have clients who there are governmental, when I say the state of Mississippi
is not looking for you, I mean, they're not, but they, there may be some subset of that where they are.
And that has happened with clients. But again, from, from the hundreds of times
that I've been through this with health coaches, the number of times that it's

(17:43):
been a complaint from a body, it's very, very small.
And then secondly, you're right. They usually get a cease and desist and they
say, okay, you have to change this. And you're like, okay, cool.
I'm going to change this.
Whereas if your client wants to sue you for a misrepresentation you made because
they thought that you were a medical professional and you didn't have documentation
saying that you weren't, then it's like, now we're talking very, very, very serious.

(18:05):
So you are right that, that, that it is words and language. I was just giving
the example of managing relationships because that's the most common issue that I see arising.
But I also did say that the important thing is to have all of your documents
in place and to make sure that the documents have the correct language.
And there's something in specifically with health coaches, there's a tool that

(18:25):
I teach my clients, which I call the screenshot defense, okay?
And so the screenshot defense is that.
So there's going to be some issue arises with one of your clients.
They're not satisfied. They had an allergic reaction.
Now they're feeling this brain fog, whatever it is. I don't know what's going on. Choose the issue.

(18:46):
The way that you're going to combat any complaint that is made against you is
by demonstrating them, hey, I'm really sorry that you're feeling this way.
Please review the waiver of liability and the service agreement that you signed
before I started working with you.
I listed what my qualifications are. are I told you to seek medical advice.
You made an affirmation that you were healthy enough.

(19:08):
I told you that I will not diagnose, treat, or cure anything,
and that I'm just making general suggestions for optimal health.
And you decided to continue in that relationship.
Now these things have happened. I told you by virtue of the recommendations
I might make that you might experience headaches or brain fog or fatigue or
allergic reactions or whatever.
And you still, I told you all that you still agreed to participate and you accepted

(19:31):
those risks before we work together.
And so now you're trying to say that I owe you money or that I have to give you a refund.
Whereas, you know, you've specifically agreed and contractually promised that
you would not, that you would revoke those rights and those abilities.
So it's like, you just send a screenshot of the provision of the agreement that's
relevant. And you're like, hey, I love you and I'm here to support you and I want to see you succeed.

(19:53):
But also in all fairness to me, I told you that this is what we'd be doing.
And I never made any representations that I must, you know, I have certain qualifications
that I don't or I'll be doing something that I'm not allowed to do.
And it's really the holistic approach is those two pieces together of managing
the relationships, communicating openly and honestly, but also having the appropriate

(20:14):
legal in place so that if and when an issue were to arise.
You're not wasting a second.
You're taking a screenshot literally on your computer.
You revoked your legal right to bring an action against me.
And that really really establishes your legal position and puts you in a position
to be able to sweep it away instead of it getting drawn out into settlement

(20:36):
negotiations and thousands of dollars in legal fees and all that other sort of stuff. Yeah.
Hey, do you have any line of sight in terms of how prevalent this is?
Because this comes up a lot, people afraid that they're going to get sued.
And I'm like, well, first of all, I know Aaron's really good at this.
Hey, this is what I do not do.
If you don't lose 20 pounds in eight weeks, don't come back at me because that's not what I I do.

(20:56):
And, you know, I've, I told my clients that I brought on a new client the other
day and her goal is to lose 20 pounds in 12 weeks. I'm like,
that is not going to happen.
I'm sorry. You're 48 years old. If it does, hallelujah. But I'm telling you
right now, that's not going to happen.
It is the number of women your age that have lost that much weight in that amount

(21:18):
of time with the recommendations and we have to build a foundation first.
That's like the first four, you know?
So I said, if 20 pounds is your goal, that's cool.
But that's not going to happen by the end of 12 weeks. I want to say that.
And when she signed anyway, she just said, she thanked me for being honest that
I wasn't going to try to just sign her to sign her and then have her disappointed

(21:41):
12 weeks later. She has a much better expectation of where I think she'll be in 12 weeks.
If she does the work and we lay the foundation and she builds the habits and
blah, blah, blah, you might lose 20 pounds.
She might surprise me if it's just all inflammation and that comes down and
boom, she loses 12 pounds of water weight.
She might be able to lose eight pounds of fat in 12 weeks, right?

(22:02):
But I'm not going to, I'm not going to tell her. Sure.
Hey, let's go for it because you're setting her up. I would be setting her up
to be disappointed and to blame me in some capacity.
And I think I would rather just not have her as a client than deal with that at the end of the day.
Yeah. You know, but do you have any line of sight as to, but this does come

(22:22):
up, people afraid of like being sued.
My, I don't know, my two senses, if you're staying within your scope,
you're unlikely to be sued for actual harm. Yeah.
It might be more along the lines of, hey, I didn't get what I wanted out of
this relationship, but I could be wrong. I mean, what have you seen?

(22:43):
I think so. Firstly, just as a general rule, having like a no refunds and a
no guarantee provision in your agreement is a no brainer.
And also in all of our agreements, we always put an expectation section where
it's like, here's what you can expect of us. This is what we're going to expect of you.
Show up on time, do the work. because it's right. Let's say you're working with

(23:04):
her and you're giving it, let's say you found this magic of form formula for
20 pounds in 12 weeks, and then you've given her the formula and then she's
going off and doing something else on her own that you can't control or can't see.
Like doesn't make, doesn't make any, any sense.
But I want to, I want to talk about this idea of getting sued is specifically
in the realm of health coaches and what I see in agreement.

(23:24):
So the majority of what I see are not issues around, oh, they want to lose 20
pounds and and they didn't, and you said I was going to do this.
That's like, that's not such a, that's not, to me, that's not such a grave risk.
Much more so is doing things out of your scope and what you're not allowed to do.
And if there's legislation around dietitians or being a registered dietitian,

(23:44):
and you're not allowed to do ABC and you do ABC, to me as a lawyer,
that's a much greater risk than someone wanted to lose 20 pounds and didn't.
And so when I lived in Vancouver and I taught a course at like a holistic nutrition school there.
And all of the, and I did all of this research into case law before I did the
class before, before I taught.

(24:06):
And the, in, in this area, when it comes to health coaches and health and wellness,
the biggest issue legally always are misrepresentations, right?
Misrepresentation means that you've got, God forbid, you've got cancer and you're
looking for some form of extreme remedy, or you've got some some extreme illness or whatever it is.
And you're looking at me to help. And I'm like, you know, the opposite of what

(24:28):
you did, Laura, where I'm like, oh, I really want this client.
So I'm going to sign them and get them to do these things.
If that person in that case, if that person doesn't achieve the goals that they
want, they can say that you misrepresented yourself as a medical professional
and they relied on the advice that you gave them and it put them in danger.
And now all of these things and there's complications and blah,
blah, blah, all of that stuff.

(24:49):
So really it's the biggest legal issues. And I'm going to come to getting sued
in a second, the biggest two legal issues will be one about misrepresentations.
And if someone felt that they were misled, right, if I go to Aaron's website,
and I don't know any, I assume that I don't know anything.
And I'm looking for a dietician to come up with a meal plan for me.

(25:11):
And I'm on Aaron's website, and I'm looking and it looks great.
And I sign up with her, her documents don't say anything about what her qualifications
are, what she does, what she doesn't do any of these things.
I follow her advice, she gives me something wrong, something I don't know,
I developed some sort of disease or it inflamates some disease that I already
have, some preexisting condition.
What an easy argument. This person doesn't have these qualifications.

(25:32):
They're holding themselves out in a particular way.
And as a result, I trusted that person.
And as a result, they misled me and I suffer damages. That's like opening clothes.
That's the ease, like that's a
lawyer's dream in terms of litigation and finding the right type of case.
Now on this question of getting sued, what I see more from my clients are two things.

(25:52):
One is they don't even know what they They would be getting sued about,
but they just know that the possibility of getting sued is real.
And I will say that it is very real because if I wanted to today,
I could go to the state of Illinois and I could go to the province of Alberta
and I could sue both of you for no reason whatsoever.
I could write anything that I wanted. I could get it stamped by the courts. I could serve it to you.

(26:14):
And then, OK, a whole process is going to come and you can counterclaim for amounts.
But like we live in a society where one is able to bring litigation against
someone without any reason. And there's no there's no hurdle to sue someone.
So, A, it can be very real. But B, what what it's all about is going to be your
legal position and your reaction to it potentially.

(26:37):
Let's say it starts with a complaint and not with getting sued.
Right. So the complaint is I followed you. You made a misrepresentation, all of these things.
The reason why the documentation is so important is because that's where you're
going to be able to say exactly. I told you this.
I told you that. I told you what I wouldn't do. I told you what I can't do.
I told you to see another medical professional before we started working together.

(27:00):
I told you I was not going to analyze.
I told you all these things. Right. So let's say I'm really mad at I'm really
upset with Laura and I feel that I trusted her.
She made misrepresentations. She acted out of scope and all of these things. Right.
First question always. And whoever's listening, you can write this down.
It doesn't matter what happened.
It matters what you're able to prove.

(27:20):
Right. So let's say I'm with Laura's Laura's my coach. I have a session with her.
And in that, Laura, you tell me everything. Oh, Corey, I'm going to cure this
and I'm going to cure that. And I'm going to fix.
And even if you're using the wrong words, you and I had a one on one conversation.
It happened, you know, behind closed doors. So everyone be careful about what
you put in text messages and email always like just always be super,

(27:43):
super careful. Wonderful.
And then let's say this issue comes up where now I'm mad at Laura and I'm coming
after Laura and I send her a demand letter.
I say, look, you know, I need fifteen thousand dollars is my medical bills and
now I need massage and I can't work and whatever story I'm going to come up with.
The first question is always going to be, OK, what support does this person
have for that argument and how strong is that?

(28:04):
And I call the term I use for that is what is someone's legal position? position.
And so in the same as the screenshot defense, you want your legal position to be airtight.
And you want to be able to demonstrate like, I did not make any misrepresentations,
I did not act out of scope, I told you before exactly everything that was going to happen.
In the event that you decide to pursue this, I reserve the right to counterclaim

(28:27):
against you for legal fees, plus filing fees, plus interest,
plus damages, plus all of that stuff.
And like, 99.99999% of the time, that's when the problem goes away.
When someone is making some sort of egregious or false claim against you,
and you can say, I have a bulletproof legal position.

(28:49):
So you're not going to be able to say that I made a misrepresentation or that
I misled you, I was doing something I wasn't supposed to be doing.
And if you come back after me and you lose, it's going to cost you thousands
of dollars and and that's like in in the most practical way that that's that's
how that's how i work with clients to be in that position to be able to,

(29:09):
discard problems. Great. Okay. That's a great explanation.
Health Coach Radio listeners, have I got a treat for you.
To get 72-hour free trial access to Primal Health Coach Institute and a 50%
off coupon code to the How to Become a Health Coach Virtual Summit,
featuring video interviews with over 30 industry experts,

(29:31):
visit primalhealthcoach.com forward slash HCR today.
There's two things at play that are similar but different, which one is our
scope of practice and the other is laying out the expectations of the coach
client relationship and responsibilities and roles and things like that.

(29:52):
So within scope of practice, again, we've touched on this. This is regional,
but there are things that are generally considered.
I always use this phrase generally considered out of scope of practice for health coaches.
And if you're a health coach, it would behoove you to practice without doing these things.
And one of them is don't offer to treat, cure, diagnose anything.

(30:13):
We can't do custom meal plans for the most part. Plus, it's horrible.
I don't know why people would want to do that. It's the worst.
But anyway, you can't. You can't do personalized meal plans.
There's some language around medical testing and things like that,
that probably are not worth bringing up here.
But one thing that you mentioned in some of these examples is,

(30:34):
you know, you provide your client with some kind of,
um, protocol and they go off and do it and they have, they come in with some
symptom or some kind of outcome.
And I think one area that's often overlooked with health coaches is that supplements can do this.
People can, people can achieve toxicity of certain supplements.

(30:55):
And we think we can just, you know, vitamin D, vitamin K2, take it all supplements.
It's easy. It's safe. And it's not these things. I've, I think it was Chris
Kresser has said that he, he, when he was teaching health coaches,
he didn't, he was really staunch about like, you can't even die.
You can't prescribe supplements either. They can't go to the local health food
store and take a supplement that you told them to take because you don't know

(31:15):
anything about their blood levels of this, that, or the other thing that could be contraindicated.
So I just wanted to put that out there that even there's a lot of things that
health coaches think are in
their realm that still aren't that this is not in your scope of practice.
And I just think it's easier if you operate in scope.
The good news is lots of things are in scope of practice for us,
like helping people understand habit change and how to set up their environment

(31:37):
and get their lifestyle inputs styled in. And these are the things that make a big change.
So I wanted to just put that out there as a general comment about our general scope of practice.
So you mentioned earlier that the way you work with coaches is you have this
like seven question form online.

(31:59):
It takes nine minutes to fill in. There's turnkey type solutions.
I get the sense that it's kind of what you just told us to keep,
make sure you have like a bulletproof defense.
If somebody were to, for whatever reason, decide to take you to court,
I guess defense isn't the right word. I'm using wrong words.
I don't speak legal, but anyway, so tell us more about that.

(32:21):
So how do you, what do you do for coaches?
I I'm going to tell you what I
do for coaches. I just want to touch on supplements for one second. Sure.
And, and it just, because it's such a good point. And it also ties into like affiliate.
So many health coaches are into affiliate marketing as well,
which is a whole other that's, that's outside of our core conversation of functions
of a coach and how, how we work with coaches, all those things.

(32:43):
But like, you have to be careful about affiliate recommendations.
And then also just generally when it comes to supplements, there are certain things,
like there is certain legal text that needs to
be included in that should be included in a
service agreement around recommendation for any supplements and
like the the key is it's sort of what you said like okay we don't
know their blood level so we can't tell them to do vitamin k12 or whatever it

(33:06):
is i don't know if k12s it sounds like it would be a vitamin does anyone know
you invented it but it's okay yeah you know when they discover it you can take
many people recommend a d3 with a k2 yeah Yeah. Or iron.
Iron is a big one. People recommend iron or iodine if your thyroid is sluggish.
Health coaches are making some wild claims that could have iodine and iron or

(33:30):
two that could have really bad outcomes for somebody, as an example.
Especially as they're mixed. But I would just say legally, the other thing to
be aware of for that, here's something that in this, my mind is always thinking
as a lawyer, I'm always thinking like, okay, if I was hired to sue this person,
what what would I be looking for?
And if I was hired to defend this person, what would I be looking for?

(33:50):
And that's sort of, so one thing that health coaches, you know,
that could, could make sense in terms of all of that is you just have a list of a lot of major things.
Like these are a whole bunch of supplements and traditionally,
you know, this is what these supplements would help with.
And then you just give the, you know, is one of it's you know,
it could be a lead magnet. It could be anything.

(34:11):
It could be something that you include with a workbook that you provide,
but the issue really turns on customization and then take taking information.
Once you apply that information to an individual, that's much more so where
the standard of care of law becomes higher as opposed to like,
Hey, here's a whole list of vitamins and how, what their functions are and how they might help.

(34:32):
So as opposed to maybe, you know, think about that versus, Oh,
you know what? I saw you shared your blood test with me and I saw your iron
levels are low. oh, so you should take iron.
And if I write that in an email, that is way different from me having a general
list of vitamins and a table of what the vitamins are and what they've been

(34:53):
known traditionally to help with and something like that. Right. That's a resource.
And we're absolutely in scope of practice to offer resources.
Like for example, I can't do a meal plan, but I can say here are foods generally
understood to support the gut.
Boom. Right. Like I'm not giving you a gut supporting meal plan,
but here are foods generally considered to be gut supporting. Yeah.

(35:15):
And there are lots now, there are lots of resources and reports and tests that
can be run that are direct to consumer that, that because I,
you know, I'm sure you run into this too, Aaron clients that are asking for this kind of stuff.
And it's like, that's not what I do, but here's this resource.
This is a direct to consumer lab that will run these kinds of reports and give

(35:37):
you a report that actually gives you direct, here's what you're low in,
here's what you're high in, here's your...
And then you bring that to me, and then you and I will develop a plan together
on how you're going to address these issues.
Rather than me as a coach being like, here's your questionnaire.
Sounds like you might need iodine. Like what? No.

(35:57):
Refer that out to something where it's direct to consumer, the client orders it themselves.
The client pays for it separately. The client receives the report.
You're coming back and helping them understand what that word means or what have you.
And then you can talk about what foods might be beneficial in terms of increased
omega-3 fatty acids or whatever it is. Right.

(36:19):
But we're not designing prescriptive meal plans. We just have to stay away from
ever being perceived as being diagnostic in any way without having that kind
of licensure behind you.
But the The good news is there's a lot of resources out there.
I think the trick for coaches is learning how to use them appropriately as a
tool, as a resource, not as a part of your practice, if that makes sense. I don't know. Yeah.

(36:45):
Yeah, for sure. I love it. And I agree. And I'm sure I don't know how in the
episodes that you've done, if you've done one on providing resource,
like how to create resources, as an example,
would be would be so helpful how to appropriately create resources,
so that everyone is able to follow that without running the risks of being diagnostic in any way.

(37:06):
But I just want to make sure that I quickly just touch on Aaron's question about
how can it be turnkey and what does the process look like?
And again, all of it was rooted in my frustrations of working with other types
of professionals that I knew are involved in the cost of doing business, i.e.
Bookkeeper, accountant, etc. et cetera, like things that you know that you need

(37:27):
for your business and me not enjoying it, not looking forward to it,
not wanting to do it, any of those things.
And I think the most important thing is realizing sort of what I said at the
start where people, the majority, 95 plus percent of health coaches aren't looking
to understand, they don't really want to know what the law is and they don't
want to spend their time doing that.
They just want to know that they're abiding it and following it in best practices and protected.

(37:53):
So essentially what we've done is we We know that because we work specifically
with health coaches, we know what the specific risks they'll come up against will be.
And we have special documents like precedents that we've drafted for all of
the issues that I've ever been through with a health coach.
Like, let's say a new issue comes up today, this afternoon.
We add it to the documents. This

(38:13):
is it. Because everyone, the variance of what we do will be different.
But the majority of what we're doing is the same. And the legal risks are the same for everyone.
So essentially, it's all about the way the process works is someone signs up,
they get a link to a type form, they answer however many questions,
and then nine minutes later, it's submitted.

(38:35):
That goes to someone on our legal team who looks at the answers,
drafts the document specific to them, sends the coach a copy.
Walks them through going through the document, answering all the questions that
they might have, making sure they feel a hundred percent, and then like sending
them on their way. Like, this is how you use it.
Upload it to your software, upload it to docu up or docu sign,
and just like set it, really set it and forget it.

(38:58):
Because that to me, that's, that's changing the industry. When I,
when I worked in a law firm, it was very different.
People would come in, we would have to wear fancy clothes. I mean,
I don't, this is going to be a podcast where people can't see,
you know, what we're wearing.
Although I will say two thirds of us are dressed nicely and someone looks like they're at the beach.
But yeah, it was never working.

(39:20):
And when I worked in other law firms, I saw clients coming in,
paying a lot of money, not feeling confident in their documents,
not actually using them.
That was the craziest thing that I noticed, that people would pay so much money
for documents and not actually use them.
And so at Conscious Counsel, the two things that I'm most proud of what we do,
because I'm on a mission.
My mission is to transform the way legal services are provided to heart leading

(39:44):
health and fitness entrepreneurs.
Like, and I will, that is my mission. I wake up and I'm like,
how can I move the dial forward 0.01% today?
And just, if I do that every single day, then I'll be able to make change in
this industry. And the two of the biggest things that we do is one is it's always fixed fees.
So there's never ever surprised like, oh, and now I added this for you and it

(40:04):
costs that and blah, blah, blah.
Cause I just saw clients hated that. And then secondly, we offer unlimited edits,
revisions, and support for a period of six months.
Cause I try to go with the whole teach a health coach to fish type of model
where instead of like, Oh, simply transactional, like, Oh, Hey,
I use this. One of my clients had this question. What do I do in this situation?

(40:25):
And just get people set on autopilot. Like after the airplane takes off,
it's just on autopilot it the entire way until it comes in for a landing,
which is another story for health coaches.
But yeah, so that's a little bit about what we do and why we do it.
That's great. Yeah. Um, so am I correct that you help, this is a very specific

(40:48):
tactical question, but you specifically help coaches get this set up on DocuSign?
We, that is, if that's, if they want to use DocuSign, we assist them.
We said we have a support team. So we have, we support them and it could be
DocuSign. It could be DocuHub.
It could be whichever, whatever one you want.
Yeah. The reason I asked that question is because I think that little step would

(41:10):
be enough of a deal breaker for some people.
Like okay great i got this great you know document and
now i have to get people to sign it i don't know
how to i don't want to know how to set that up even on on an online although
it is a very simple technology so i think for a lot of coaches that that is
already i just feel like i feel like coaches get you know you you refer to it

(41:33):
as like this is a cost of doing business bookkeeping getting you know your your
legal liability stuff maybe insurance set up there's cost of doing business stuff that is, again,
where we see coaches failing to launch because they're excited to help people,
but they're not excited about setting a document up on HelloSign.
And if it's not exciting, they're not going to do it. So I just think that's
one little interesting offer that I haven't heard before.

(41:54):
And the big thing here about this, that failure to launch component,
and I just want to share, it's like on the reflections from the hundreds of
coaches who I've worked with and who I've had consultation calls with and ended
up setting up with legal packages.
Could just one of the most common things I'll hear is like, I really want to
put myself out there, but I don't. And it'll be it'll be I want to put myself

(42:17):
out there, but dot, dot, dot.
Or it'll be something like, well, I've started working with my friends and family,
and they love it. And I'm doing an amazing job.
But I'm really apprehensive to start working with strangers or people who I don't know.
And I think that one of the one of the major reasons that people have that is
lack of confidence in, in security in,

(42:37):
I think there's part of it, which might be like imposter syndrome or,
you know, am I really good enough worthiness, which definitely is outside the scope of law.
But from, from a legal standpoint, I will hear, it's very common that clients
will say something like, I really want to put myself out there and I feel like,
you know, I want to take the next step, but I don't want to get sued or I don't
know these people, or I'm selling a product online.

(42:58):
And I don't know. And so again, I just, what I want to do is provide that peace
of mind and the security and be like, go, like, go do your thing.
We'll take care of it. If an issue comes up, you send me an email,
but like, don't worry about it.
Just go, go, go be yourself, put it out there, be the difference,
heal the world in your unique way.

(43:20):
And that's like, that's my paid forward model.
That's the reason why I have the mission that I have. I know that if I'm,
if I'm helping one one health coach get secure and confident in their business
so that they can blow it up.
A they are loving their life and they're going to be super happy because they're
living their purpose, but B they're going to be making the world a healthier place.
So, but you know, just, it, it expounds exponentially.

(43:44):
It grows in the reach of helping people.
Yeah. Cool. So, so tell us a little bit. So they fill out these questions and they get documents.
What kind of documents are they getting?
Delicious documents. Delicious documents. Strawberry.
They get a Google, it's called a Google doc or Google document.

(44:05):
So they get a Google doc and they get to read it over and they can put in any
questions or comments they have.
And then they hop on a call with a lawyer who answers those questions and works
with them until the end. And it's.
So is it a client contract, like a client agreement, liability waiver?
Is it stuff that they need to put on their website?
Like that's what I mean. Like what kind of. Yeah, it's those three.

(44:27):
So we have something called the Health Coach Essential Legal Package,
which is the privacy policy, the terms of service, social media disclaimer and health disclaimer.
That's like all the information on your website. So that let's say I were to
go to Aaron's website and maybe it doesn't have the word nutrition,
but she's talking about sweet potatoes and gut bacteria and candida,
buzzword, buzzword, buzzword.

(44:49):
And um and then let's say i'm going to allege oh well i fall i followed aaron's website.
Aaron screenshot defense would be a copy of that disclaimer hey on
the bottom of my website there's a health disclaimer i clearly said that i'm
not doing this right so that's the online stuff second is waiver of liability
which is super mega important that's someone saying before they work with you

(45:09):
they agree to not hold you responsible uh you know they they relinquish or release
any legal rights they would have against you.
But the waiver only works if it's clearly communicated.
So like using a template will not help you because the template may not mention anything about...
I don't know. Let's say blood test results, right?

(45:32):
Okay. So the consumer themselves is going to get a blood test and they get all
the results back and then they share it with you. And then you say something based on that.
If that's not included in the waiver, you're right. I agreed not to hold you
legally responsible, but only for the things that were listed in the agreement.
So it's like the name of the game with legal documents always is customization.
Customization 100% specific to what you do. And then the third agreement is

(45:54):
the client service agreement, entertainment, which is relationship between you
and your clients, communicating openly and honestly.
This is what I'll do. This is what I will not do. These are my qualifications.
See a medical professional. I will not do ABC. This is what you can expect from
me. This is what I expect from you.
No refunds, no guarantees, like all of that stuff.
And really with those three as a health coach, you've now protected the majority

(46:20):
of the relationships that you've had,
which are your online relationships and your relationships in person with clients
working one-on-one to make sure that you don't get sued and you get to keep
all the money that you work so hard to bring in.
Nice. I mean, that makes it sound easy. It makes it sound easy.
And so I think that that's nice because when people imagine it,
they imagine it being very complex and hard and daunting, but you make it sound

(46:44):
easy and it's a fixed rate.
So it's kind of like this upfront costs that a health coach can imagine just
investing the one time to cover all your bases and just the cost of doing business.
Do you, can you ballpark what the fixed rate ends up being?
Yeah, it's too, I can tell you exactly for that, for the package of three documents, it's $2,388.

(47:06):
Great. And that, that includes the unlimited edits revisions and support for a period of six months.
Nice. Wonderful. So yeah. And the other thing that, the other thing that I'm really proud about is,
in my business is we've got 300 five-star Google reviews and we only have five-star reviews.
And like, maybe when you hear that, like people are like, wow, that's impressive.
But it's also like, here's the logic behind it. You set up a system so that

(47:30):
you only stop working with people when they're fully satisfied.
It's like, we get there with everyone and we will get there with everyone.
Like I would say to any, you know, I have confidence that anyone who signs up
with us will give us five stars because we work with you and we support you
until it's five stars. Nice.
Yeah. That's a good business model. Yeah. I mean, if what's keeping you from
moving forward is confidence, then do what you need to do to have confidence.

(47:54):
You will get it all back, people, in terms of investing.
My role at our school is admissions director, and this comes up a lot.
Hey, what's it going to cost me to get this up and running? I'm like,
it's going to cost time, money, and effort.
You can't put it all on just money. There's going to be costs involved,
but it's going to take time and it's going to take effort and how much money
is determined by how much it is you're outsourcing.

(48:15):
And this is one area that unless you're an attorney becoming a health coach,
you're going to need to figure this part out.
There's something that I heard you mentioned a couple of times that I just want
to back on was this concept of refunds.
That has come up once or twice in terms of, is this something that people...
Any kind of refund policy.

(48:36):
Do you have... I mean, I mean, I heard you mention no refunds,
you know, this type of work, there's no guarantee.
So, I mean, what are your, how do you articulate that?
Yeah, refunds are a little bit tricky only because there are consumer protection
laws, which will inherently protect consumers.
Like between a business to consumer relationship, there are certain rules that

(48:58):
you cannot contract out of, which is a good thing, right?
Because that protects people who may not know what the rules are otherwise.
But that being said, when properly drafted, you can have a refund policy that
reflects the general rule with law always to remember is that two parties can
agree to anything that is not illegal.
So, so long as, as what, whatever we're agreeing to does not contradict anything

(49:19):
within your jurisdictional consumer protection laws, then they're,
you know, then we're allowed to agree to that. There's no reason why,
why we would not be able to.
So no refunds doesn't work across the board. Like, let's say you pay me for a year of coaching.
Let's say you pay me $12,000, $1,000 a month, and you sign up on Monday.
And then Wednesday you're like, Oh, actually, you know what?

(49:40):
I thought about it. And I really don't want to do this.
Or I there, I will not legally, Legally, I can tell you for sure that if that
person were to come to me and say, hey, Corey, I have a no refunds provision, this is the story.
I'd be like, sorry, there are general consumer, there's cool off periods.
And it's like there are also different rules around recurring payments,
like monthly subscriptions have different rules and other sorts of types of transactions.

(50:02):
And the duration of time is a big one as well.
So there are nuances that you have. And that's why you work with a lawyer.
And that's why lawyers support on a case by case basis. but ultimately you can,
you can, you can draft it to be as strict as the laws would permit you to draft it. Right. Yeah.
My business coach told me to offer refunds, for example, but so she,

(50:24):
she's like, as long as you lay out the parameters of this refund,
you know, you've put, you know, and it's hard because it's sort of like,
if you can show me that you've put in an 85% effort,
and it still didn't work, you didn't get the outcomes you want,
then I will refund every cent. then, but I don't like, how do you measure that?
Right. It's, it's kind of immeasurable. I guess if you have a curriculum and
people are going through it or not going through it, you could keep an eye on

(50:45):
that, but can it be written around things that are actually within your control?
So as a coach, I don't show up for meetings or I'm pushing them off,
or I'm not responding to you in your questions and, you know,
emails in a timely fashion.
If, if I haven't followed through on what I said, I'm
going to follow through on relative to
you didn't lose the 20 pounds you on

(51:08):
it in 12 weeks that that's
the whole that's the whole point of the expectations part of the
agreement where that that's that's your opportunity and like
what i always tell clients is when it comes to the serve the
client your client service agreement that you as a coach that you have with
your with your students or who you're are they students if you're a health coach

(51:28):
clients clients typically okay yeah clients the relationship with your clients
should be that should be the excitement that like the document that gets you
the most excited because you are creating the ideal relationship.
It's like reverse engineer it, you know, of all the problems I've had,
this is what I've learned, what I want my coaching business to look like and
how I want my clients to behave.

(51:48):
And you put it on a piece of paper. And so long as it's not illegal,
they are legally bound to it.
And so you're right. You, you want it to be, to have as little discretion as
possible, like i.e oh i promise to try 80 but also it's like okay you want to lose you want to lose.
Excuse me, 20 pounds a week, you could do, I'm not, and I'm not recommending

(52:08):
this, but like what Matthew McConaughey did for Dallas Buyers Club, right?
Like he ate, it was white fish and vegetables and as much red wine as he could drink. And like, right.
The human body will react in a certain way if you do that. And those people
will receive, like your body has to operate it that way.
So there are ways to put it in there where it's like, Hey, if you want to lose

(52:32):
weight, eat, eat 200 grams of fish and one cup of steamed vegetables three times
a day and drink as much red wine as you want, right?
So all I'm saying is like, you could make it as much as, or as little as you
want, but the key is to not leave anything to be up for interpretation.
As a lawyer, you want everything definitive all the time, always.

(52:54):
Yeah. I think it's a fun, it's fun.
I think frame it as fun. Like coming up with a client agreement,
here's what I'm going to do. Here's what my client's going to do.
We're going to come together.
And it's, it's a real, I think there can be fun energy behind it,
I guess, is what I'm getting at.
You know, it's sort of like the time I hired my first employee and the act of

(53:16):
putting together her job description was fun.
It was like, wow, I've got this whole, this whole thing I built and there's
a whole job, you know, I just,
I feel like my pep talk for coaches listening is we see lots of coaches who
train and certify because that's what we do at our school and are excited to
get out there, put themselves out there and help people.
And then something gets in their way. And I think it's their own point of view. Like this is a drag.

(53:39):
I don't want to do this. I don't speak this language. I don't like it.
But if we can reframe it as sort of just a fun sort of growth oriented part
of building something something new, then it will be less of a drag.
And by the way, then you get it
out of the way early, 2,300 bucks done and dusted and you're good to go.

(54:01):
And now you can do the thing that you want to do.
So I just wanted to put that out there. It's the same sort of fun as a coach
would have with a client in terms of coming up with the actual work.
Like, okay, let's say you're telling me to do A, B, and C so that I can feel
better. I won't have lower back pain. My skin will improve.

(54:21):
Whatever, okay, whatever. Like, okay, there's two ways I could look at that.
Okay, this is going to suck.
And I miss eating brownies five times a week or whatever it is or whatever,
you know, or conversely, like, oh, I'm excited.
I'm excited to make these changes in my life because I know they're going to
help me be the person who I want to become and give me the freedom and the ease
and the confidence to go out and do whatever it is that I want to do.

(54:44):
And it's like, it's the exact same thing, but it's just with law.
It's like, you're using your legal documents as a tool to create the best relationships
you can have with your clients.
And yeah, you can choose how that looks. It could be a drag or it could be super
fun because by doing this now, I know I'm not going to have any problems in the future.
And then I can just do whatever I grow my business, however I want and live the life of my dreams.

(55:04):
Yes. I think there's something about harnessing this nervous excitement,
like the energy of nervous excitement.
That's when you know, you're doing something really important to you.
Like it could be, it could be investing in the the stock market,
getting a tattoo, changing your diet, starting a business.
But if you're feeling nervous, excitement, harness that and leverage it because

(55:25):
it means that you're at the beginning of something that's very important to you.
What I'm hearing from this is that I should get a tattoo today.
That's basically what I'm walking away with. I'm going to start thinking about it.
Well, I mean, I was going to say that, you know,
half of the not half,
most of the issue with all the anxiety we feel is the thought of the thing like

(55:50):
the thought of dealing with the law makes me nervous the thought of but the
thing is is once you're on the other side of it once it's done.
Oh my God, how much better do you feel, right? But just all the stress goes away.
You know, it's done. It's checked off the list. You feel so much better about
moving forward because you got it done.
So if really what's causing the anxiety is the thought of going through the

(56:13):
process, even getting started, the longer you sit in that world,
the longer you're going to feel that way.
So you just kind of have to get it done, you know, and get it done the right
way with someone that you trust that can make it fun.
Awesome so thank you for all of that
this was a fun conversation can you where can people find

(56:33):
you and kind of check out what you guys do and how to work with you uh they
they can find us online the website is conscious council conscious council.ca
my email address is cory at conscious council.ca and um and i'm sure in the
show notes you will be able to link all of the information.
But I do, I just want to acknowledge how many times the word fun was said in

(56:56):
this, like, this is, it's an example of how we do it. This is how we do it.
Either you're both just being very, very nice and using the word fun,
because you know that it's, it's about lobbying fun.
Or it's, it's everything is framing and contextual a lot, like,
it's just framing and context of what we're doing.
And working with a lawyer can suck, or working with a lawyer can be the one
step that you're missing to take you to the next level.

(57:19):
So I appreciate the opportunity to share and to be with such awesome colleagues in this industry,
such intelligent people who know so much and also are taking a stand to empower
other coaches to grow and make the world a healthier place.
And yeah, that's very inspiring for me. So thanks for having me.

(57:40):
Boom. Awesome. Thanks, Corey.
This podcast was brought to you by Primal Health Coach Institute.
To learn more about how to become a successful health coach,
get in touch with us by visiting primalhealthcoach.com forward slash call.
Or if you're already a successful health coach, practitioner,
influencer, or thought leader with a thriving business and an interesting story,

(58:04):
we'd love to hear from you.
Connect with us at hello at primalhealthcoach.com and let us know why we need
to interview you for Health Coach Radio. Thanks for listening.