June 13, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of the Healthy, Wealthy, and Smart Podcast, host Karen Litzy welcomes back Jamey Schrier, a physical therapist, bestselling author, and CEO of Practice Freedom U. They discuss the importance of helping and impacting others through their professions, as well as the growth and evolution of both Karen’s and Jamey's businesses. The conversation delves into the traps of growth that many entrepreneurs face, highlighting how new challenges can arise as companies expand. Jamey shares insights on navigating these obstacles to ensure continued success and fulfillment in one's practice. Tune in for valuable strategies on overcoming the challenges of business growth and making a meaningful impact in your field.
Time Stamps:
[00:01:39] Growth traps in business.
[00:05:14] Growth phases of business.
[00:10:51] Choosing your own path.
[00:12:36] Overcoming feelings of inadequacy.
[00:19:21] Company values attract staff.
[00:23:25] Draining joy in work.
[00:25:56] Expansion phase challenges in business.
[00:30:22] Business growth and scalability.
[00:35:01] Profitability in business phases.
[00:40:17] Knowing what you want.
[00:41:32] Practice Freedom U quiz.
More About Jamey Schrier:
Jamey Schrier, P.T. is a best-selling author, speaker and CEO of Practice Freedom U, a business training and coaching company. Jamey is former private practice owner and his book, The Practice Freedom Method has helped scores of practitioners Treat Less, and Earn More, and enjoy a life they deserve.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the healthy, wealthy, and smart podcast. I
am your host, Karen Litzy, owner of Karen Litzy Physical Therapy located in
New York city. And today I'm really happy to have back on
the program. A total regular actually might be
the most regular guests that we have. Jamie Schreier.
He's a physical therapist, a bestselling author, business
(00:23):
coach, speaker and CEO of Practice Freedom
U, a business training and coaching company. Jamie
has helped hundreds of private practice owners treat
less, earn more, and live a life of prosperity and fun.
And so much fun to be back as a
(00:43):
regular, but we always have so much fun. So I always love coming back and
just seeing the growth and evolution that you've had over the years
Yeah, likewise, likewise. I've seen your company grow from
you to now having multiple coaches and
helping even more and more people, creating a bigger impact, which
(01:05):
is exactly what we all hope for, right? When we start a business is
Yeah, I mean, I think just as human beings, it's
like, what are we here for? In
my mind, we're here to help and impact others. And that's obviously why
we all got into our profession. And then we start
(01:26):
to choose, OK, there's a lot of ways to impact. And you're
doing it in your unique way, and I'm doing it in mine. And man,
that's what gets me up in the morning to be able to do
Yeah, absolutely. And part of growing and
making a bigger impact leads me right into what
I think we're going to talk about today and the traps
(01:49):
of growth, right? So sometimes we grow and we
get new problems. We get stuck in a phase of
our business and can't seem to get our way out. So
I would love for you to talk a little bit
more about how to escape those growth traps. But
first, from your experience, what
(02:13):
are the most common phases of
Yeah, so I think it's important to first understand
what the phases of business are because they're very
standard. You can read it anywhere in the
world. They're going to be relatively the same. They're all agreed upon.
(02:36):
So the way I look at it is there's the initial startup
phase. The startup phase, and we use
kind of some affectionate terms, the startup phase is kind of boring. So in
our company, we use the committed clinician. You
can also hear the solopreneur. It's basically that
smaller, single, maybe there's someone else
(02:58):
there with you, maybe there's an admin person, but typically
the revenue is anywhere from just getting started to
maybe about 400,000 a year. So
it's a
good business, it's a good model, it's a self-employed model.
(03:18):
So that's just considered that startup phase. Then
the evolution continues. And
the evolution becomes, now you're in the growth phase. And
some highlights of the growth phase, and we affectionately call
the growth phase the overwhelmed operator, because that's
pretty much what happens. But the growth phase is
(03:39):
that 400,000 to a million thereabouts.
And that, to me, Karen, is, I
believe, the hardest phase. That's the phase that
we get a lot of people that come to us in. And
it's a phase that it is really difficult to
get out. And I'll kind of share some of the reasons why. And
(04:03):
then the third phase is the expansion phase.
So this is where your business really starts to move. And
that phase is anywhere from that million dollars all the way up
to the $5 million mark. And that
phase, that hallmark is you have more
levers in your business. Things can start
(04:27):
to leverage because it's not just you anymore. You
have a team in place. You have other people. The
ability to grow is easier. The
challenges, which we'll talk about, are different than the other
phases, because you're, you know, new level, new devil. There's
always going to be new challenges. And then finally,
(04:49):
to keep it kind of simple, you have the
phase of scalability. So that phase
is $5 million all the way up to
$10 million and more. And it can keep
getting drawn out, but I think for the audience, I
would say 99.9% are going to be under $5 million. But
(05:14):
yeah, so that phase in scale offers
its challenges, but they're just completely different.
So those are the four growth phase as I see it,
Okay. So let's talk about then
(05:34):
where you can get trapped in some of those phases and
Yeah, so when you're in the startup phase, the
hallmark is you're doing everything. I
mean, and the startup phase doesn't mean you can't be in
the startup phase for years. You could be there for years if
(05:54):
that's your model. Like if you're a solo practitioner and
you're like, hey, that's what I want. And that's always going to
be your phase. So you're always going to have the same traps
because you are one of two things. One,
you're trading time for money. Right. I mean, you're physically trading
your time for money. That's a hallmark of
(06:15):
it. And the others is you're wearing all the hats. Every
business, no matter how big or small, has the same areas
of the business. If you have a customer, you still have,
you know, Operations and you still have some
type of systems in place regardless of how tight
they will you're still dealing with financials you still have marketing
(06:40):
so you still have these areas of the business and because it's
small you're just. You're just doing them. You're just
wearing those hats, taking on those roles, which
of course becomes then the recipe
for the trap. And the trap is
you stay in those roles. You stay
(07:03):
doing it all. You stay being everything
to everybody. And it's hard to
break out of that unless you have a couple
of things. One, you have to
have a vision, you have to have a want. If
you don't, that's okay. But keeping
(07:25):
your eyes open and saying, this is what I want
in my business, at least for now, that's okay. And
there's things that you can do to help yourself in
that area. But if you want to grow, that
starts giving you the framework and the path to
start going to that next level. And
(07:46):
the only way to get there is to A,
realize that help usually comes in
two ways. One is people, but
the other way that's becoming more and more is technology.
You can get help through technology. You can get help through agent
bots. You can get people answering the phone. You don't have to
(08:09):
answer the phone and they can come off just as good as,
I mean, people aren't gonna really notice the difference. So,
but you have to want to do that. So we get stuck
because it's me, it's my business, they all
want me, I have to do it. So that's really where the mindset
limitation comes in to play. But
(08:31):
that's kind of that committed clinician model.
So that's, that's where the
Yeah. And I, you know, I think we've all been there. Um,
I know I've certainly been there of like, well, I have to do this. I
have to do that. I have to do this. And then you realize I don't have to do any
of it. Like I can get someone else to
(08:55):
return phone calls and to screen patients and
to enter people into the system so that
I'm not having to do that at the end of the day, right?
So all of that is possible. And you don't realize how
much time is spent in doing that when you are the committed clinician,
because you're in it. So once you pull yourself out
(09:19):
And I think that's no big deal. I'll just do this real quick. You
And it adds up. Oh, it only takes five minutes here, 20 minutes here, this,
that and the other thing. But what I really like that you said in the
beginning is that startup phase, that may be the phase
you want to stay with. because you don't have
to have 20 clinics and 50 people working for
(09:44):
You don't have to live someone else's, someone in
And it's, Karen, it's so hard because we're so influenced
and we get it thrown in our face nonstop. You and
I attend an annual conference in physical therapy, and I don't know
about you, but I've never met anybody doing that. Like you talk
(10:05):
to people, how are you doing? oh, things are going great, staying busy, all
that. I'm like, wow, thousand people, not one person that
Right, well now, if you asked me that question a month ago,
I would have said I'm underwater, overwhelmed, I
(10:25):
Well, you would be showing vulnerability and honesty, and vulnerability and
Well, I'm saying it right now in public. So
I did exactly what you just said. I let
go of the reins and brought someone in. And
it's like, oh my God, this is amazing to
(10:47):
have someone who, you know, is great, who
your patients love. And you know, your patients love the
therapist when they go to see one person
Right. That's when you're like, oh, this person's good. But
I was overwhelmed underwater, canceling things
(11:08):
with family and friends. I didn't even go home for Easter because I
was so exhausted and tired. And I was like, that's
And you start to question, what am I doing this for? Like,
I want to make an impact. I want to help others. But aren't you
a part of the people you want to help? Don't you want to create the
(11:29):
life and the lifestyle and the relationships that you want? You
see, to me, this is all a choice. And it's so easy
for us to come up with an excuse of why it can't be
and spend two minutes saying, well, there's nobody out there. So even
if I wanted to, I can't hire anybody. And it's like, come on. You
know, that's a victim mentality. If you want
(11:50):
to be where you are, own it. Just own
it. Don't make it where you can't, because there's a lot of people doing
amazing things in this world, and it's because they're choosing to.
It's not easy to do, but none of
this is easy. It can be a lot of fun. Hard
work is fun sometimes, but you have to create that
(12:10):
vision, that picture that moves you.
and you don't want someone else's picture for you.
Because, you know, your listeners may know, but
I had my own practice. I had a couple of locations in Maryland.
And I remember, like, I was on the, I
need more, more locations, because that's what people seem
(12:34):
to respect. And I was in this I
need respect. I need to be someone to
be reckoned with and all that. And then I started working
with a coach. He goes, what kind of crap are you saying? Is
that what you're about? I go, no. I go, then why are you doing all
this? I go, I don't know. That's what I thought I was supposed to do. People
(12:54):
always ask me, how many locations do you have? And I feel less than if I
don't give a big number. And that was my own poor
thinking. So I started just to line my business
with the life I wanted, and I stopped worrying about
what everyone else is doing. Easier said than done, for sure. But it
(13:16):
Yeah, and it is hard. I remember even last year
at PPS, I gave a speech after
an award. And when I got that award, or
when it was the Dicus Award for people who are physical therapists. So
part of my speech, because I remember when Jenna Cantor is
like, I'm nominating you for this. And I was like, oh, that's nice. Not
(13:39):
gonna happen, but thank you so much. And I felt,
well, that will never happen because I'm not
I'm not big enough. I'm not important enough. I'm not the Mount
Rushmore people. I'm just little Karen in New York doing
my little thing. That's our own mindset that
(13:59):
keeps us small. It's not about
money or clinic. It's about how we feel about ourselves.
And if we think we're small, we act small, we show
up small. And thank you for Jenna, because she
Right. And and after I gave that speech
(14:20):
afterwards, people were like, thank you for that, because I'm
just I'm I have one clinic or it's just me or it's just me
and another PT. And and I like what I'm doing, you
know. But to your point, I think a culture, our culture certainly
here in the United States, for those of you listening, Jamie and I are both based
in the United States is bigger, more better, bigger, more.
(14:42):
Blow it out. right? But in other parts of
We might say, we might say they're, uh, more
Like you don't have places in the U S you don't have to blow it out
and stretch it every which way. Right. You can just
(15:02):
say like, you know, I really like what I'm doing and
I like the way that my business is structured and,
and it can, I feel like I'm not comfortable, but
you know, I'm happy here. But to your point, maybe I
don't have to hire 10 to 20 more
people and have all these different locations. But
(15:25):
maybe I can work through technology
to help get me unstuck from some of the traps of being
Well, yeah, for sure. I mean, obviously, me being biased,
Fighting to recognize when you are fighting yourself
(15:46):
and we're all doing that. This is actually a perfect segue because when
we look at the second growth phase that
we get trapped, that overwhelmed operator
phase, 400,000 to a million, the
hallmark on that phase is we begin
to hire and yet our hours do not
(16:07):
go down. Our hours go up. Why?
Well, because we still have our job to do, which is the same job we
had in the startup phase, right? Solopreneur. But
because we hire, there's more complexity in
the business. There's other human beings. And we learned very quickly,
they all don't do things the way we do them. So
(16:30):
now we're working more hours. And we give hours away like
they're nothing. And we try to show up and be everything. So this
is where the overwhelm comes. Not that you can't be
overwhelmed as a solopreneur. You were overwhelmed. You were doing too
much. You didn't have borders. And you were
just saying yes to everyone because you like to help people. It's
(16:52):
good feeling like wanted. And then we get caught
in that next phase, which is why the hardest thing, because you work
more hours. And this is where my whole treat less, make more
motto came from. It's because we work
more and make less, which
makes no sense. But yet all of us in that phase are doing
(17:14):
it. And it's predictable because everything
is being done kind of off the cuff. There's
one thing that helps us get out of that. Well, there's a couple of things, but one
primary thing, and that is developing systems.
You have to develop, especially in ways and things
that you do often, things that you do repeatable. Like
(17:36):
if you answer the phone, let's just not
have it random to whoever answers the phone. One person says,
you know, good afternoon, Shryer Physical Therapy, this
is Karen speaking. You know, are you a new patient or
a current patient? Versus, yeah, hello. I've
answered it all different types of way at my place. Why?
(17:59):
Because I had no clear way that I wanted it done and
I never communicated it and trained my team. That's
on the owner. If the owner does not do that,
you can't expect it to magically happen. Yet, so
many of us complain about our team that
(18:22):
Right. And likely trained. Or
So when we talk about this idea of systems and processes, which
everyone knows, everyone talks about, but think about, name
something in your business That is not a
process. I'm not saying not a process in your business, but
(18:44):
it's not a way of doing it. If
you don't have a way of hiring the right kind of people,
No wonder you have a lot of times the wrong people in the
business, which is why that second stage
is so difficult, that second phase is so difficult,
because a lot of times you don't necessarily have the right people in
(19:05):
place. You start to put in systems. There's
another thing you double down on in phase two. You
double down on what this company is about. You don't
need to do this so much in the startup phase. It's
really just you. You don't need to create all. If you want to, that's fine. But
it's really important when you solidify
(19:28):
what your values are, what your standards are, what
the vision and the picture of this company is, because those
things end up attracting your staff. And
if you don't have them, your staff comes to you for what? What
are you really offering that's any different than anybody else? The
only thing that really makes you stand out is what you're about. Because
(19:52):
if you compete on money, they're going to leave for the next person that
Right. If you say, oh, well, we do this
and we have that. Well, guess what? Someone else can have those same things. There's
no training you have. Someone else can't have it. So
this is where the scary part is, Darren, because this is
probably the first time you really have to put yourself
(20:15):
out there. and draw a line and saying,
this is who I am. This is what I'm about. This
is who I'm not. That will be probably the
first time that you're going to say no.
You're going to say no to people. You know what? I like you. I
don't think this is the right fit for you because you're so clear on who you
(20:37):
are. But when you know that and when you
start bringing in the right people, you don't
need perfect systems. Better to have good people than
good systems, right? But when you
start doing that, and then the mindset shift says,
you know what? They're never going to be like me, but that's okay.
(20:59):
Give me 80% of them. Give me 90%. They're
not going to be like me. So stop trying to compare them to myself. All
of a sudden you start to shift over the million dollar mark
and you start to get into the third phase, which is the
Yeah. And I think it
(21:19):
was last year, maybe, I actually did interview someone who
And I was really happy to know that. And
I was like, oh, I don't think this is gonna be the right fit for
you. Yeah. And I think they agreed.
Yeah, every client I've ever personally worked with, and including my
(21:41):
own staff, when you are really not
just clear on who you are, but it's about alignment. Talk
a lot about alignment, talk a lot about the spine. When a spine is
aligned, a spine's, it moves, it's flexible, it
does so many great things. When it's not, when it's
perked up, scoliosis and all that, you get breakdown in
(22:02):
certain areas. So when your business is
aligned with who you are, which is doing deep work,
right? Coaching, in my mind, is doing the deep work that
you do behind the scenes when no one's looking. So then you can say
confidently, Karen, you're a great person. I
don't think this is the right fit based on what you're talking. There's a
(22:24):
better fit for you. We would both not be
as cool as we are now. Or, you know
what, based on everything you said, I think you'd be a
perfect fit for us. And I think you would come
in and be able to grow and flourish and all that. When
you're clear, it gives you confidence. And
(22:46):
when you have that type of confidence, it allows you to move
intentionally on your path. Because we
all need a path. We all need direction. When you're not, you
become very reactive and people in that second phase,
reactive decisions, things are happening to them. That's
why you go home exhausted. You go home
(23:09):
exhausted because you're working a ton of hours. You're doing a
lot of things in your day to day that are not, you're
not built for these. They're just a bunch of stuff that you're doing because you
Yeah. And it drains you, it like drains your,
draining, that should be another blog, draining joy.
(23:30):
You know how you drain joy? Do things you don't particularly like
to do that suck the energy right out. I've had days
when I have, even coaching calls, right? There's
nothing, I mean, treating is one thing. Coaching, high
level, like deep coaching, I am wiped out. If I
have more than three calls in a day, I'm like wiped
(23:50):
out, but I'm not overwhelmed or burnt out. I'm wiped
out like you just did a massive workout. You're exhausted, but you feel
Versus right now I'm working on a slide deck, working
on a slide deck and I have my team kind of I'll
do that for an hour and be exhausted the whole day and just be like, this is
(24:12):
So it depends on what you're doing. So
one of the things that we want to do is not
only focus on who we are, what we're about and all that,
bring in the right team, which again is a process in how to hire, but
also get more and more aligned with where
do we do our best work? And Karen, this is
(24:34):
where the guilt comes because we're all good
clinicians. We started our blades, but maybe
there's something bigger for us. Maybe there's something more. Maybe
it's okay. We start lending our knowledge to
people that want to take it and be like mini
me's. and we can make our impact through
(24:54):
others and allow to focus on something else. But
that's a shift, that's a shift in, you know, do
you believe there's something more for you? Because if not, we stay in
what we know and we stay with what we are comfortable with, which
is treating. And then of course you have all the haters and the people
that make comments, right? I will never stop treating, you
(25:16):
shouldn't either, or the other ones. Why are you treating? It's
whatever works for you and what you want. Stop worrying about
Yeah. Yeah. OP plans. My friend
used to say she loved OP kids, other people's kids. So,
(25:36):
Other people's plans are not your plans. Not down with it. We're
So let's talk a little bit more. We've talked startup
growth. How about where you might get stuck in that expansion phase,
The expansion phase is the area that I really love working
(25:59):
with people on because A,
if someone leaves, the world doesn't end. You can still
pay your bills and all of that. So you're out of that reactive
phase. And the hallmarks of that really
comes down to identity. Because you start to
really battle your own identity. Who am I? Do you
(26:21):
still say when someone asks you, what do you do, do you still say, I'm a
PT? Are you still saying that even though you have
a $2 million, $3 million practice? Are
you identifying with, you're a business owner, you're an
entrepreneur, you're a leader, you're a thinker, you're
a creator, you're an innovator. How do we start identifying
(26:42):
ourselves? Because how we see ourselves is how we show up
and communicate to others. So I
work with clients on really doubling down again
on revisiting your values and revisiting what you want. Taking
those to then hire your leadership team.
You see the expansion phase is all about leadership teams. You
(27:06):
typically in the phase two, you
may have some managers in place, you may have like a director, CI
something, but when you get to that one, two, three, four million, Really,
the way you start to just vault this business is having
great leaders. And then your job starts to
shift to truly be that owner, leader,
(27:30):
CEO, which means you start to
train the leaders. In order to do that, you
have to be one yourself. you have to step into
that world focusing on skills of communication,
skills of emotional intelligence, skills of how do you handle
your own crap in your own head? Like we all have
(27:51):
it. We all have, you know, the person that says you're an imposter. So
how do we start dealing with that? And it's kind of wild
what happens. I talked to two clients today that are in that
phase today. And they both, first of
all, they were talking to me at home. And one said, Jamie,
I really haven't been in the clinic in two weeks. Like he has a couple locations.
(28:13):
And I went, do they need you?" And they're like,
no. I go in there, I say hello, but if
I'm there, I start to nitpick stuff, which again,
I look at my numbers and my numbers, I'm trusting my numbers and
it's going really well. And he goes, man,
I never realized it would be this hard. It's this hard
(28:36):
to let go. That's what that phase is about.
You let go a little bit in the
growth phase and that overwhelmed opera, you'll let go, like, okay, someone
else can do the front desk, I don't have to answer. But in that phase, it
is all about letting go and putting good
people that you are supporting them, you're
(28:58):
coaching your people and allowing them to
do it, allowing them to make mistakes, allowing them to
learn from them, And what happens, and my other
guy that I was talking to today, which I have been working with him forever, and he's
a cash-based program, I started working with him and he had 13 clients
a week. And he's now up to, he's all excited, he just
(29:19):
broke the 200 client mark. All cash, one
hour appointments. And he goes, Jamie,
it's so hard not to be busy. Like
I'm so used to and conditioned to
be busy. And I said, you know what? Because that's what our society does.
What do you say when someone says, how are you doing? Staying
(29:42):
busy. Why is busy like a good thing? Are
you staying busy? I'm hoping not to. I'm staying
productive in what I like to do, but it doesn't mean I'm busy. I'm busy,
but I may only quote in someone else's eyes work 10, 12 hours
in a week. I get a lot done in those 10, 12 hours,
(30:03):
but I spent a lot of time just I'm just thinking, I
do my workouts and stuff, but I'm being creative. That's
real important time so I can show up here ready to roll, or
I can show up with a client, or show up with one of my coaches and
training them, or show up speaking. If you shift what
you're really doing, and Karen, that's when
(30:24):
your business starts to accelerate. It
is wild that you can go much, much
easier two to three million, blink of
an eye, then you can ever go from 600,000 to 800,000. It is so much, and
again, this is my
experience, so much more difficult. So
(30:46):
that phase is doubling down on
who you are and what you're about, so you can develop the culture,
coach your, you know, build your, develop your leadership team, and
really start relying on, you know, your key
KPIs and things like that, and organizational structure.
(31:08):
Like, you really start to just tighten everything
up. And it really depends on how it was built. People
that I meet at that stage, at that
phase, typically are
acting, and this isn't everyone, but if they're under 2 million, 2.5 million, it's
funny, they're quote, in that growth, in that expansion phase,
(31:31):
but they're really operating like the growth phase. They operate, so
we have to go back, and I treat them like overwhelmed
operators. And then we put the foundation that
then gets their business and it soars versus someone
that comes in earlier that they're building it like this. But
that phase is fun, still challenging, but
(31:53):
I always find it like when you get out of the immediacy of
reacting and life isn't going to end, you're going to
handle a three payroll month and all that other stuff. it
just gives you more confidence to do stuff and play with stuff and
grow. And then after that, that scalability
phase, that's really just a whole different level of
(32:14):
thinking. I mean, your job really is continuing to support your leadership team,
but you're looking for opportunities. You're looking for maybe other things
you want to do, or other people you want to collaborate with,
other business ideas. Not that it can't happen before, But
your role really, really changes at that
level. Expansion as far as locations,
(32:38):
if you do want multiple clinics, it really
starts to happen in that one to five million phase. If
it happens early, It's
because of usually just ego. Like, oh, I got
three clinics. I get, you have three clinics, you're under a million dollars. That means each clinic
(33:01):
But I'm supposed to have a lot of clinics just really, really
So those are some of the traps that we get in
is, you know, the first trap is, you know, you're just doing
it all and you really have trouble letting go. And then the
(33:22):
second one is there's just really no organization systems in
place and you're just working more. And then the
third one is really just that identity piece, like
truly allowing your team. So those are the
really the big traps that people get themselves
Yeah. And it sounds like a big part of getting out of all of those traps
(33:44):
is having the right mindset to do it. So you don't necessarily have
to have a million people working for
you and a million different systems. It's having the right mindset to
believe that you can go from one phase
Yeah. As a coach, you know, I've been coaching now at
(34:06):
the time of this call, 12 years. You and I have been
doing this and you've been doing your thing. We're like the OGs. I
mean, you've been on the podcast longer than probably most people in
the industry, in multiple industries. And, you know, coaching
is the same way. I think my style of coaching,
just kind of what I'm helping people through, and obviously it's
(34:27):
because of technology, is I'm coaching on
much more lean is the way to be. Lean
Not big and fat and all these people and all
Profitable cashflow. You want all that
stuff. You don't want to be like, I was talking with a friend over
(34:50):
the weekend and she was talking
about how she and her husband never wanted to be house poor. So
No. And here's the other thing, Karen. Each of these
phases, there's one thing that you have to be in each of these phases,
and that's profitable. If you're not profitable
(35:11):
in phase one, which if you can't be profitable when
it's just you, you've got some ridiculous overhead
going on. But if you can't be profitable when it's just you, because you shouldn't have that overhead,
first of all. You should be small, one little place, broom closet
somewhere. You should be making money. The
next phase, yes, there might be a period where you hire some
(35:32):
people, but if you have a good system and good support, 90 days.
I mean, that's it. People are like broke. That
phase two, people are broke. They're like, I mean, I
see it. I see all our financials people coming in and I'm like, you
got an $800,000 business, you're making like 50 grand.
(35:57):
Well, Karen, like you said, it's
mindset. They feel bad. They pay everybody else.
They start hiring people. I go, stop hiring everybody. While
I'm trying to remove myself from the day-to-day, I go, you're not at that place yet.
You can't just be removing yourself from day-to-day. You need to
learn how to do this. If you don't learn it here, first
(36:20):
of all, you're never going to get to the next phase. And if you do get
to the next phase by accident, you are going to virtually
Oh, I got like a $2 million business. I'm like, Really?
Yeah, I don't even know how, we're just growing. It's
(36:41):
like accidental, their growth, but it's because they
have some thing that they're doing that's generating patience, but
they don't have the infrastructures, the systems, and they certainly don't
have the mindset and skill to lead
that kind of business. So the business just kind of hovers, and
it's not profitable, and it's up and down, and it's exhausting. So,
(37:05):
Yeah. I'd rather have a four
hundred thousand dollar business that's you're
making 20 to 25 percent profit margins versus
Yeah. I mean, in some cases, yeah. It all depends if
the $2 million business has the potential. If it does, give
(37:27):
me the $2 million. If not, you're going to
Yeah. Kind of like what you were saying, you got
there accidentally, you don't know what's going on, you're just sort of hovering around.
It's very stressful. That makes me very stressed
Yeah, and that's what, you know, anyone
(37:48):
listening that you're in your business or looking at a business, wanting to grow wherever you
are, this is just all about you. It's
what you want. To me, whatever
we do as owners and leaders, entrepreneurs, can
we all agree that it's supposed to provide us a better life?
us a better life. Now, if we have a better life, think
(38:11):
about this. We have a better life. That life is
being supported by this vehicle that we call a business. And
if the business is supporting our life, would you
think that people working for us would also have a better life? Because
we're givers. We want to help others. Why would we have a better life
than our staff? Terrible. What happens is our
(38:32):
staff has a little better life and ours is terrible. Because
we're trying to give them everything, but we're sacrificing ourselves to do it.
And we have to be more selfish, which is really hard for us to do. So
to me, this is, what do you want
your life to be? If anything was possible,
don't try to figure out how we're gonna get there. What do you want
(38:55):
it to be? Who are you about? What
are you about? This is where your values come in. Then let's
look at your business. I don't even look at your business until I'm
clear on those things with someone. Then I'm like, okay. Let's
see what this business has to be in order to support
that. And you need someone that is willing to
(39:16):
really start seeing things and thinking differently. And
unfortunately, Karen, a lot of people aren't. They stay really fixed
and set on their belief systems. And
look, I don't judge people's belief systems. I just ask,
are your belief systems providing the life that you want,
not that you're settling for? And if it is, more power to
(39:39):
you. If it's not, you do have a choice. It's hard
talk, but I wish there was just more successful people
that were just living a great life and doing it by impacting others,
like you're doing and I'm doing. We all
Yeah. And I was going to ask you to, as
we wind things up, kind of tie it up there. And I think you just did,
(40:01):
but my biggest takeaway is that, and I wrote it down, you really have
Yeah. Either know what you want, Sometimes
Cause if you're overwhelmed, if you're under a
million, that overwhelmed operator, you don't even know what you
(40:23):
want. Cause you don't think anything's possible. So you don't want to think too big. Cause
you're just going to get, you're just going to bum yourself out and you're already exhausted. So
how about what don't you want? Well,
I don't want to see 40, 50 hours a week of clients anymore. Okay, well,
what would that look like? Get it down to 20, 25. Okay, let's
(40:43):
just start there. I don't want to do this administrative stuff.
Okay. I'll never ask you why. It doesn't
matter. You don't have to justify to anyone.
It's just what you want or in this case, don't want. Once
you start getting breathing room, things start to
get more clear and now you can start being more intentional because
(41:06):
you have more confidence and you can say, oh, yeah, there's
other things I can do here. When you're drowning in it, which
typically happens between that 500 and a million, Sometimes
it's hard. So start with what you want, start with what you don't want. Just
Yeah. Great advice. Now, where can people find
(41:28):
you if they want to learn more about you, learn more about Practice
You can always go to my website, Practice Freedom U, the letter U,
and with the audience, I always like starting
people with a quiz because I like people thinking. And I want people to,
it's a very quick quiz, take you like two minutes, three minutes, we can put it in the show notes,
but it just allows you to kind of look
(41:51):
at your business. Like I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions about the
different areas of your business. So depending where you are, depending how
you're going to answer, but it's an eye opener because it's questions
that you may not have asked yourself. And then what happens with the quiz is
after you're done, then I give you things that you should do. So
I'll say, Hey, you're in this stage. here's
(42:11):
what you're facing, here's what you can do about it. And then of course,
if you'd like, I'm happy to jump on a call and see if
coaching might be an avenue as well. But start with
Perfect. And like Jamie said, we'll have all of that in the show notes. So no
matter what platform you're listening to now, scroll down a little bit and
one click will take you to all of that. And of course, last question,
(42:33):
you've answered so many times, you've given yourself so much advice, but
Oh, man. It's
going to be OK. It's
going to be OK. Just keep
(42:55):
showing up as the authentic you.
Hmm. That's great advice. And I think
a lot of people don't think like that then because you're all frazzled and
Yeah, I think me too. Um, but that is
(43:18):
totally well, Jamie, thank you so much for coming on
again. Always a pleasure. Always great advice. So thank you
so much. Thank you. And everyone, thanks so much
for tuning in. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy,
Hey everybody, welcome back to the healthy, wealthy, and smart podcast. I
am your host, Karen Litzy, owner of Karen Litzy Physical Therapy located in
New York city. And today I'm really happy to have back on
the program. A total regular actually might be
the most regular guests that we have. Jamie Schreier.
He's a physical therapist, a bestselling author, business
(00:23):
coach, speaker and CEO of Practice Freedom
U, a business training and coaching company. Jamie
has helped hundreds of private practice owners treat
less, earn more, and live a life of prosperity and fun.
And so much fun to be back as a
(00:43):
regular, but we always have so much fun. So I always love coming back and
just seeing the growth and evolution that you've had over the years
Yeah, likewise, likewise. I've seen your company grow from
you to now having multiple coaches and
helping even more and more people, creating a bigger impact, which
(01:05):
is exactly what we all hope for, right? When we start a business is
Yeah, I mean, I think just as human beings, it's
like, what are we here for? In
my mind, we're here to help and impact others. And that's obviously why
we all got into our profession. And then we start
(01:26):
to choose, OK, there's a lot of ways to impact. And you're
doing it in your unique way, and I'm doing it in mine. And man,
that's what gets me up in the morning to be able to do
Yeah, absolutely. And part of growing and
making a bigger impact leads me right into what
I think we're going to talk about today and the traps
(01:49):
of growth, right? So sometimes we grow and we
get new problems. We get stuck in a phase of
our business and can't seem to get our way out. So
I would love for you to talk a little bit
more about how to escape those growth traps. But
first, from your experience, what
(02:13):
are the most common phases of
Yeah, so I think it's important to first understand
what the phases of business are because they're very
standard. You can read it anywhere in the
world. They're going to be relatively the same. They're all agreed upon.
(02:36):
So the way I look at it is there's the initial startup
phase. The startup phase, and we use
kind of some affectionate terms, the startup phase is kind of boring. So in
our company, we use the committed clinician. You
can also hear the solopreneur. It's basically that
smaller, single, maybe there's someone else
(02:58):
there with you, maybe there's an admin person, but typically
the revenue is anywhere from just getting started to
maybe about 400,000 a year. So
it's a
good business, it's a good model, it's a self-employed model.
(03:18):
So that's just considered that startup phase. Then
the evolution continues. And
the evolution becomes, now you're in the growth phase. And
some highlights of the growth phase, and we affectionately call
the growth phase the overwhelmed operator, because that's
pretty much what happens. But the growth phase is
(03:39):
that 400,000 to a million thereabouts.
And that, to me, Karen, is, I
believe, the hardest phase. That's the phase that
we get a lot of people that come to us in. And
it's a phase that it is really difficult to
get out. And I'll kind of share some of the reasons why. And
(04:03):
then the third phase is the expansion phase.
So this is where your business really starts to move. And
that phase is anywhere from that million dollars all the way up
to the $5 million mark. And that
phase, that hallmark is you have more
levers in your business. Things can start
(04:27):
to leverage because it's not just you anymore. You
have a team in place. You have other people. The
ability to grow is easier. The
challenges, which we'll talk about, are different than the other
phases, because you're, you know, new level, new devil. There's
always going to be new challenges. And then finally,
(04:49):
to keep it kind of simple, you have the
phase of scalability. So that phase
is $5 million all the way up to
$10 million and more. And it can keep
getting drawn out, but I think for the audience, I
would say 99.9% are going to be under $5 million. But
(05:14):
yeah, so that phase in scale offers
its challenges, but they're just completely different.
So those are the four growth phase as I see it,
Okay. So let's talk about then
(05:34):
where you can get trapped in some of those phases and
Yeah, so when you're in the startup phase, the
hallmark is you're doing everything. I
mean, and the startup phase doesn't mean you can't be in
the startup phase for years. You could be there for years if
(05:54):
that's your model. Like if you're a solo practitioner and
you're like, hey, that's what I want. And that's always going to
be your phase. So you're always going to have the same traps
because you are one of two things. One,
you're trading time for money. Right. I mean, you're physically trading
your time for money. That's a hallmark of
(06:15):
it. And the others is you're wearing all the hats. Every
business, no matter how big or small, has the same areas
of the business. If you have a customer, you still have,
you know, Operations and you still have some
type of systems in place regardless of how tight
they will you're still dealing with financials you still have marketing
(06:40):
so you still have these areas of the business and because it's
small you're just. You're just doing them. You're just
wearing those hats, taking on those roles, which
of course becomes then the recipe
for the trap. And the trap is
you stay in those roles. You stay
(07:03):
doing it all. You stay being everything
to everybody. And it's hard to
break out of that unless you have a couple
of things. One, you have to
have a vision, you have to have a want. If
you don't, that's okay. But keeping
(07:25):
your eyes open and saying, this is what I want
in my business, at least for now, that's okay. And
there's things that you can do to help yourself in
that area. But if you want to grow, that
starts giving you the framework and the path to
start going to that next level. And
(07:46):
the only way to get there is to A,
realize that help usually comes in
two ways. One is people, but
the other way that's becoming more and more is technology.
You can get help through technology. You can get help through agent
bots. You can get people answering the phone. You don't have to
(08:09):
answer the phone and they can come off just as good as,
I mean, people aren't gonna really notice the difference. So,
but you have to want to do that. So we get stuck
because it's me, it's my business, they all
want me, I have to do it. So that's really where the mindset
limitation comes in to play. But
(08:31):
that's kind of that committed clinician model.
So that's, that's where the
Yeah. And I, you know, I think we've all been there. Um,
I know I've certainly been there of like, well, I have to do this. I
have to do that. I have to do this. And then you realize I don't have to do any
of it. Like I can get someone else to
(08:55):
return phone calls and to screen patients and
to enter people into the system so that
I'm not having to do that at the end of the day, right?
So all of that is possible. And you don't realize how
much time is spent in doing that when you are the committed clinician,
because you're in it. So once you pull yourself out
(09:19):
And I think that's no big deal. I'll just do this real quick. You
And it adds up. Oh, it only takes five minutes here, 20 minutes here, this,
that and the other thing. But what I really like that you said in the
beginning is that startup phase, that may be the phase
you want to stay with. because you don't have
to have 20 clinics and 50 people working for
(09:44):
You don't have to live someone else's, someone in
And it's, Karen, it's so hard because we're so influenced
and we get it thrown in our face nonstop. You and
I attend an annual conference in physical therapy, and I don't know
about you, but I've never met anybody doing that. Like you talk
(10:05):
to people, how are you doing? oh, things are going great, staying busy, all
that. I'm like, wow, thousand people, not one person that
Right, well now, if you asked me that question a month ago,
I would have said I'm underwater, overwhelmed, I
(10:25):
Well, you would be showing vulnerability and honesty, and vulnerability and
Well, I'm saying it right now in public. So
I did exactly what you just said. I let
go of the reins and brought someone in. And
it's like, oh my God, this is amazing to
(10:47):
have someone who, you know, is great, who
your patients love. And you know, your patients love the
therapist when they go to see one person
Right. That's when you're like, oh, this person's good. But
I was overwhelmed underwater, canceling things
(11:08):
with family and friends. I didn't even go home for Easter because I
was so exhausted and tired. And I was like, that's
And you start to question, what am I doing this for? Like,
I want to make an impact. I want to help others. But aren't you
a part of the people you want to help? Don't you want to create the
(11:29):
life and the lifestyle and the relationships that you want? You
see, to me, this is all a choice. And it's so easy
for us to come up with an excuse of why it can't be
and spend two minutes saying, well, there's nobody out there. So even
if I wanted to, I can't hire anybody. And it's like, come on. You
know, that's a victim mentality. If you want
(11:50):
to be where you are, own it. Just own
it. Don't make it where you can't, because there's a lot of people doing
amazing things in this world, and it's because they're choosing to.
It's not easy to do, but none of
this is easy. It can be a lot of fun. Hard
work is fun sometimes, but you have to create that
(12:10):
vision, that picture that moves you.
and you don't want someone else's picture for you.
Because, you know, your listeners may know, but
I had my own practice. I had a couple of locations in Maryland.
And I remember, like, I was on the, I
need more, more locations, because that's what people seem
(12:34):
to respect. And I was in this I
need respect. I need to be someone to
be reckoned with and all that. And then I started working
with a coach. He goes, what kind of crap are you saying? Is
that what you're about? I go, no. I go, then why are you doing all
this? I go, I don't know. That's what I thought I was supposed to do. People
(12:54):
always ask me, how many locations do you have? And I feel less than if I
don't give a big number. And that was my own poor
thinking. So I started just to line my business
with the life I wanted, and I stopped worrying about
what everyone else is doing. Easier said than done, for sure. But it
(13:16):
Yeah, and it is hard. I remember even last year
at PPS, I gave a speech after
an award. And when I got that award, or
when it was the Dicus Award for people who are physical therapists. So
part of my speech, because I remember when Jenna Cantor is
like, I'm nominating you for this. And I was like, oh, that's nice. Not
(13:39):
gonna happen, but thank you so much. And I felt,
well, that will never happen because I'm not
I'm not big enough. I'm not important enough. I'm not the Mount
Rushmore people. I'm just little Karen in New York doing
my little thing. That's our own mindset that
(13:59):
keeps us small. It's not about
money or clinic. It's about how we feel about ourselves.
And if we think we're small, we act small, we show
up small. And thank you for Jenna, because she
Right. And and after I gave that speech
(14:20):
afterwards, people were like, thank you for that, because I'm
just I'm I have one clinic or it's just me or it's just me
and another PT. And and I like what I'm doing, you
know. But to your point, I think a culture, our culture certainly
here in the United States, for those of you listening, Jamie and I are both based
in the United States is bigger, more better, bigger, more.
(14:42):
Blow it out. right? But in other parts of
We might say, we might say they're, uh, more
Like you don't have places in the U S you don't have to blow it out
and stretch it every which way. Right. You can just
(15:02):
say like, you know, I really like what I'm doing and
I like the way that my business is structured and,
and it can, I feel like I'm not comfortable, but
you know, I'm happy here. But to your point, maybe I
don't have to hire 10 to 20 more
people and have all these different locations. But
(15:25):
maybe I can work through technology
to help get me unstuck from some of the traps of being
Well, yeah, for sure. I mean, obviously, me being biased,
Fighting to recognize when you are fighting yourself
(15:46):
and we're all doing that. This is actually a perfect segue because when
we look at the second growth phase that
we get trapped, that overwhelmed operator
phase, 400,000 to a million, the
hallmark on that phase is we begin
to hire and yet our hours do not
(16:07):
go down. Our hours go up. Why?
Well, because we still have our job to do, which is the same job we
had in the startup phase, right? Solopreneur. But
because we hire, there's more complexity in
the business. There's other human beings. And we learned very quickly,
they all don't do things the way we do them. So
(16:30):
now we're working more hours. And we give hours away like
they're nothing. And we try to show up and be everything. So this
is where the overwhelm comes. Not that you can't be
overwhelmed as a solopreneur. You were overwhelmed. You were doing too
much. You didn't have borders. And you were
just saying yes to everyone because you like to help people. It's
(16:52):
good feeling like wanted. And then we get caught
in that next phase, which is why the hardest thing, because you work
more hours. And this is where my whole treat less, make more
motto came from. It's because we work
more and make less, which
makes no sense. But yet all of us in that phase are doing
(17:14):
it. And it's predictable because everything
is being done kind of off the cuff. There's
one thing that helps us get out of that. Well, there's a couple of things, but one
primary thing, and that is developing systems.
You have to develop, especially in ways and things
that you do often, things that you do repeatable. Like
(17:36):
if you answer the phone, let's just not
have it random to whoever answers the phone. One person says,
you know, good afternoon, Shryer Physical Therapy, this
is Karen speaking. You know, are you a new patient or
a current patient? Versus, yeah, hello. I've
answered it all different types of way at my place. Why?
(17:59):
Because I had no clear way that I wanted it done and
I never communicated it and trained my team. That's
on the owner. If the owner does not do that,
you can't expect it to magically happen. Yet, so
many of us complain about our team that
(18:22):
Right. And likely trained. Or
So when we talk about this idea of systems and processes, which
everyone knows, everyone talks about, but think about, name
something in your business That is not a
process. I'm not saying not a process in your business, but
(18:44):
it's not a way of doing it. If
you don't have a way of hiring the right kind of people,
No wonder you have a lot of times the wrong people in the
business, which is why that second stage
is so difficult, that second phase is so difficult,
because a lot of times you don't necessarily have the right people in
(19:05):
place. You start to put in systems. There's
another thing you double down on in phase two. You
double down on what this company is about. You don't
need to do this so much in the startup phase. It's
really just you. You don't need to create all. If you want to, that's fine. But
it's really important when you solidify
(19:28):
what your values are, what your standards are, what
the vision and the picture of this company is, because those
things end up attracting your staff. And
if you don't have them, your staff comes to you for what? What
are you really offering that's any different than anybody else? The
only thing that really makes you stand out is what you're about. Because
(19:52):
if you compete on money, they're going to leave for the next person that
Right. If you say, oh, well, we do this
and we have that. Well, guess what? Someone else can have those same things. There's
no training you have. Someone else can't have it. So
this is where the scary part is, Darren, because this is
probably the first time you really have to put yourself
(20:15):
out there. and draw a line and saying,
this is who I am. This is what I'm about. This
is who I'm not. That will be probably the
first time that you're going to say no.
You're going to say no to people. You know what? I like you. I
don't think this is the right fit for you because you're so clear on who you
(20:37):
are. But when you know that and when you
start bringing in the right people, you don't
need perfect systems. Better to have good people than
good systems, right? But when you
start doing that, and then the mindset shift says,
you know what? They're never going to be like me, but that's okay.
(20:59):
Give me 80% of them. Give me 90%. They're
not going to be like me. So stop trying to compare them to myself. All
of a sudden you start to shift over the million dollar mark
and you start to get into the third phase, which is the
Yeah. And I think it
(21:19):
was last year, maybe, I actually did interview someone who
And I was really happy to know that. And
I was like, oh, I don't think this is gonna be the right fit for
you. Yeah. And I think they agreed.
Yeah, every client I've ever personally worked with, and including my
(21:41):
own staff, when you are really not
just clear on who you are, but it's about alignment. Talk
a lot about alignment, talk a lot about the spine. When a spine is
aligned, a spine's, it moves, it's flexible, it
does so many great things. When it's not, when it's
perked up, scoliosis and all that, you get breakdown in
(22:02):
certain areas. So when your business is
aligned with who you are, which is doing deep work,
right? Coaching, in my mind, is doing the deep work that
you do behind the scenes when no one's looking. So then you can say
confidently, Karen, you're a great person. I
don't think this is the right fit based on what you're talking. There's a
(22:24):
better fit for you. We would both not be
as cool as we are now. Or, you know
what, based on everything you said, I think you'd be a
perfect fit for us. And I think you would come
in and be able to grow and flourish and all that. When
you're clear, it gives you confidence. And
(22:46):
when you have that type of confidence, it allows you to move
intentionally on your path. Because we
all need a path. We all need direction. When you're not, you
become very reactive and people in that second phase,
reactive decisions, things are happening to them. That's
why you go home exhausted. You go home
(23:09):
exhausted because you're working a ton of hours. You're doing a
lot of things in your day to day that are not, you're
not built for these. They're just a bunch of stuff that you're doing because you
Yeah. And it drains you, it like drains your,
draining, that should be another blog, draining joy.
(23:30):
You know how you drain joy? Do things you don't particularly like
to do that suck the energy right out. I've had days
when I have, even coaching calls, right? There's
nothing, I mean, treating is one thing. Coaching, high
level, like deep coaching, I am wiped out. If I
have more than three calls in a day, I'm like wiped
(23:50):
out, but I'm not overwhelmed or burnt out. I'm wiped
out like you just did a massive workout. You're exhausted, but you feel
Versus right now I'm working on a slide deck, working
on a slide deck and I have my team kind of I'll
do that for an hour and be exhausted the whole day and just be like, this is
(24:12):
So it depends on what you're doing. So
one of the things that we want to do is not
only focus on who we are, what we're about and all that,
bring in the right team, which again is a process in how to hire, but
also get more and more aligned with where
do we do our best work? And Karen, this is
(24:34):
where the guilt comes because we're all good
clinicians. We started our blades, but maybe
there's something bigger for us. Maybe there's something more. Maybe
it's okay. We start lending our knowledge to
people that want to take it and be like mini
me's. and we can make our impact through
(24:54):
others and allow to focus on something else. But
that's a shift, that's a shift in, you know, do
you believe there's something more for you? Because if not, we stay in
what we know and we stay with what we are comfortable with, which
is treating. And then of course you have all the haters and the people
that make comments, right? I will never stop treating, you
(25:16):
shouldn't either, or the other ones. Why are you treating? It's
whatever works for you and what you want. Stop worrying about
Yeah. Yeah. OP plans. My friend
used to say she loved OP kids, other people's kids. So,
(25:36):
Other people's plans are not your plans. Not down with it. We're
So let's talk a little bit more. We've talked startup
growth. How about where you might get stuck in that expansion phase,
The expansion phase is the area that I really love working
(25:59):
with people on because A,
if someone leaves, the world doesn't end. You can still
pay your bills and all of that. So you're out of that reactive
phase. And the hallmarks of that really
comes down to identity. Because you start to
really battle your own identity. Who am I? Do you
(26:21):
still say when someone asks you, what do you do, do you still say, I'm a
PT? Are you still saying that even though you have
a $2 million, $3 million practice? Are
you identifying with, you're a business owner, you're an
entrepreneur, you're a leader, you're a thinker, you're
a creator, you're an innovator. How do we start identifying
(26:42):
ourselves? Because how we see ourselves is how we show up
and communicate to others. So I
work with clients on really doubling down again
on revisiting your values and revisiting what you want. Taking
those to then hire your leadership team.
You see the expansion phase is all about leadership teams. You
(27:06):
typically in the phase two, you
may have some managers in place, you may have like a director, CI
something, but when you get to that one, two, three, four million, Really,
the way you start to just vault this business is having
great leaders. And then your job starts to
shift to truly be that owner, leader,
(27:30):
CEO, which means you start to
train the leaders. In order to do that, you
have to be one yourself. you have to step into
that world focusing on skills of communication,
skills of emotional intelligence, skills of how do you handle
your own crap in your own head? Like we all have
(27:51):
it. We all have, you know, the person that says you're an imposter. So
how do we start dealing with that? And it's kind of wild
what happens. I talked to two clients today that are in that
phase today. And they both, first of
all, they were talking to me at home. And one said, Jamie,
I really haven't been in the clinic in two weeks. Like he has a couple locations.
(28:13):
And I went, do they need you?" And they're like,
no. I go in there, I say hello, but if
I'm there, I start to nitpick stuff, which again,
I look at my numbers and my numbers, I'm trusting my numbers and
it's going really well. And he goes, man,
I never realized it would be this hard. It's this hard
(28:36):
to let go. That's what that phase is about.
You let go a little bit in the
growth phase and that overwhelmed opera, you'll let go, like, okay, someone
else can do the front desk, I don't have to answer. But in that phase, it
is all about letting go and putting good
people that you are supporting them, you're
(28:58):
coaching your people and allowing them to
do it, allowing them to make mistakes, allowing them to
learn from them, And what happens, and my other
guy that I was talking to today, which I have been working with him forever, and he's
a cash-based program, I started working with him and he had 13 clients
a week. And he's now up to, he's all excited, he just
(29:19):
broke the 200 client mark. All cash, one
hour appointments. And he goes, Jamie,
it's so hard not to be busy. Like
I'm so used to and conditioned to
be busy. And I said, you know what? Because that's what our society does.
What do you say when someone says, how are you doing? Staying
(29:42):
busy. Why is busy like a good thing? Are
you staying busy? I'm hoping not to. I'm staying
productive in what I like to do, but it doesn't mean I'm busy. I'm busy,
but I may only quote in someone else's eyes work 10, 12 hours
in a week. I get a lot done in those 10, 12 hours,
(30:03):
but I spent a lot of time just I'm just thinking, I
do my workouts and stuff, but I'm being creative. That's
real important time so I can show up here ready to roll, or
I can show up with a client, or show up with one of my coaches and
training them, or show up speaking. If you shift what
you're really doing, and Karen, that's when
(30:24):
your business starts to accelerate. It
is wild that you can go much, much
easier two to three million, blink of
an eye, then you can ever go from 600,000 to 800,000. It is so much, and
again, this is my
experience, so much more difficult. So
(30:46):
that phase is doubling down on
who you are and what you're about, so you can develop the culture,
coach your, you know, build your, develop your leadership team, and
really start relying on, you know, your key
KPIs and things like that, and organizational structure.
(31:08):
Like, you really start to just tighten everything
up. And it really depends on how it was built. People
that I meet at that stage, at that
phase, typically are
acting, and this isn't everyone, but if they're under 2 million, 2.5 million, it's
funny, they're quote, in that growth, in that expansion phase,
(31:31):
but they're really operating like the growth phase. They operate, so
we have to go back, and I treat them like overwhelmed
operators. And then we put the foundation that
then gets their business and it soars versus someone
that comes in earlier that they're building it like this. But
that phase is fun, still challenging, but
(31:53):
I always find it like when you get out of the immediacy of
reacting and life isn't going to end, you're going to
handle a three payroll month and all that other stuff. it
just gives you more confidence to do stuff and play with stuff and
grow. And then after that, that scalability
phase, that's really just a whole different level of
(32:14):
thinking. I mean, your job really is continuing to support your leadership team,
but you're looking for opportunities. You're looking for maybe other things
you want to do, or other people you want to collaborate with,
other business ideas. Not that it can't happen before, But
your role really, really changes at that
level. Expansion as far as locations,
(32:38):
if you do want multiple clinics, it really
starts to happen in that one to five million phase. If
it happens early, It's
because of usually just ego. Like, oh, I got
three clinics. I get, you have three clinics, you're under a million dollars. That means each clinic
(33:01):
But I'm supposed to have a lot of clinics just really, really
So those are some of the traps that we get in
is, you know, the first trap is, you know, you're just doing
it all and you really have trouble letting go. And then the
(33:22):
second one is there's just really no organization systems in
place and you're just working more. And then the
third one is really just that identity piece, like
truly allowing your team. So those are the
really the big traps that people get themselves
Yeah. And it sounds like a big part of getting out of all of those traps
(33:44):
is having the right mindset to do it. So you don't necessarily have
to have a million people working for
you and a million different systems. It's having the right mindset to
believe that you can go from one phase
Yeah. As a coach, you know, I've been coaching now at
(34:06):
the time of this call, 12 years. You and I have been
doing this and you've been doing your thing. We're like the OGs. I
mean, you've been on the podcast longer than probably most people in
the industry, in multiple industries. And, you know, coaching
is the same way. I think my style of coaching,
just kind of what I'm helping people through, and obviously it's
(34:27):
because of technology, is I'm coaching on
much more lean is the way to be. Lean
Not big and fat and all these people and all
Profitable cashflow. You want all that
stuff. You don't want to be like, I was talking with a friend over
(34:50):
the weekend and she was talking
about how she and her husband never wanted to be house poor. So
No. And here's the other thing, Karen. Each of these
phases, there's one thing that you have to be in each of these phases,
and that's profitable. If you're not profitable
(35:11):
in phase one, which if you can't be profitable when
it's just you, you've got some ridiculous overhead
going on. But if you can't be profitable when it's just you, because you shouldn't have that overhead,
first of all. You should be small, one little place, broom closet
somewhere. You should be making money. The
next phase, yes, there might be a period where you hire some
(35:32):
people, but if you have a good system and good support, 90 days.
I mean, that's it. People are like broke. That
phase two, people are broke. They're like, I mean, I
see it. I see all our financials people coming in and I'm like, you
got an $800,000 business, you're making like 50 grand.
(35:57):
Well, Karen, like you said, it's
mindset. They feel bad. They pay everybody else.
They start hiring people. I go, stop hiring everybody. While
I'm trying to remove myself from the day-to-day, I go, you're not at that place yet.
You can't just be removing yourself from day-to-day. You need to
learn how to do this. If you don't learn it here, first
(36:20):
of all, you're never going to get to the next phase. And if you do get
to the next phase by accident, you are going to virtually
Oh, I got like a $2 million business. I'm like, Really?
Yeah, I don't even know how, we're just growing. It's
(36:41):
like accidental, their growth, but it's because they
have some thing that they're doing that's generating patience, but
they don't have the infrastructures, the systems, and they certainly don't
have the mindset and skill to lead
that kind of business. So the business just kind of hovers, and
it's not profitable, and it's up and down, and it's exhausting. So,
(37:05):
Yeah. I'd rather have a four
hundred thousand dollar business that's you're
making 20 to 25 percent profit margins versus
Yeah. I mean, in some cases, yeah. It all depends if
the $2 million business has the potential. If it does, give
(37:27):
me the $2 million. If not, you're going to
Yeah. Kind of like what you were saying, you got
there accidentally, you don't know what's going on, you're just sort of hovering around.
It's very stressful. That makes me very stressed
Yeah, and that's what, you know, anyone
(37:48):
listening that you're in your business or looking at a business, wanting to grow wherever you
are, this is just all about you. It's
what you want. To me, whatever
we do as owners and leaders, entrepreneurs, can
we all agree that it's supposed to provide us a better life?
us a better life. Now, if we have a better life, think
(38:11):
about this. We have a better life. That life is
being supported by this vehicle that we call a business. And
if the business is supporting our life, would you
think that people working for us would also have a better life? Because
we're givers. We want to help others. Why would we have a better life
than our staff? Terrible. What happens is our
(38:32):
staff has a little better life and ours is terrible. Because
we're trying to give them everything, but we're sacrificing ourselves to do it.
And we have to be more selfish, which is really hard for us to do. So
to me, this is, what do you want
your life to be? If anything was possible,
don't try to figure out how we're gonna get there. What do you want
(38:55):
it to be? Who are you about? What
are you about? This is where your values come in. Then let's
look at your business. I don't even look at your business until I'm
clear on those things with someone. Then I'm like, okay. Let's
see what this business has to be in order to support
that. And you need someone that is willing to
(39:16):
really start seeing things and thinking differently. And
unfortunately, Karen, a lot of people aren't. They stay really fixed
and set on their belief systems. And
look, I don't judge people's belief systems. I just ask,
are your belief systems providing the life that you want,
not that you're settling for? And if it is, more power to
(39:39):
you. If it's not, you do have a choice. It's hard
talk, but I wish there was just more successful people
that were just living a great life and doing it by impacting others,
like you're doing and I'm doing. We all
Yeah. And I was going to ask you to, as
we wind things up, kind of tie it up there. And I think you just did,
(40:01):
but my biggest takeaway is that, and I wrote it down, you really have
Yeah. Either know what you want, Sometimes
Cause if you're overwhelmed, if you're under a
million, that overwhelmed operator, you don't even know what you
(40:23):
want. Cause you don't think anything's possible. So you don't want to think too big. Cause
you're just going to get, you're just going to bum yourself out and you're already exhausted. So
how about what don't you want? Well,
I don't want to see 40, 50 hours a week of clients anymore. Okay, well,
what would that look like? Get it down to 20, 25. Okay, let's
(40:43):
just start there. I don't want to do this administrative stuff.
Okay. I'll never ask you why. It doesn't
matter. You don't have to justify to anyone.
It's just what you want or in this case, don't want. Once
you start getting breathing room, things start to
get more clear and now you can start being more intentional because
(41:06):
you have more confidence and you can say, oh, yeah, there's
other things I can do here. When you're drowning in it, which
typically happens between that 500 and a million, Sometimes
it's hard. So start with what you want, start with what you don't want. Just
Yeah. Great advice. Now, where can people find
(41:28):
you if they want to learn more about you, learn more about Practice
You can always go to my website, Practice Freedom U, the letter U,
and with the audience, I always like starting
people with a quiz because I like people thinking. And I want people to,
it's a very quick quiz, take you like two minutes, three minutes, we can put it in the show notes,
but it just allows you to kind of look
(41:51):
at your business. Like I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions about the
different areas of your business. So depending where you are, depending how
you're going to answer, but it's an eye opener because it's questions
that you may not have asked yourself. And then what happens with the quiz is
after you're done, then I give you things that you should do. So
I'll say, Hey, you're in this stage. here's
(42:11):
what you're facing, here's what you can do about it. And then of course,
if you'd like, I'm happy to jump on a call and see if
coaching might be an avenue as well. But start with
Perfect. And like Jamie said, we'll have all of that in the show notes. So no
matter what platform you're listening to now, scroll down a little bit and
one click will take you to all of that. And of course, last question,
(42:33):
you've answered so many times, you've given yourself so much advice, but
Oh, man. It's
going to be OK. It's
going to be OK. Just keep
(42:55):
showing up as the authentic you.
Hmm. That's great advice. And I think
a lot of people don't think like that then because you're all frazzled and
Yeah, I think me too. Um, but that is
(43:18):
totally well, Jamie, thank you so much for coming on
again. Always a pleasure. Always great advice. So thank you
so much. Thank you. And everyone, thanks so much
for tuning in. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy,
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