January 20, 2025 • 58 mins
Pay attention! God has something to say to you! Throughout Paula Mullen’ life God has directed her in various ways. Listen as she shares her inspiring journey of faith, from her immigrant roots and Catholic upbringing to her transformative experiences with prayer, fasting, and motherhood. Discover how she found God’s guidance through trials, embraced the joys of adoption, and balanced career, marriage, and family life, all while trusting in His provision. You’ll be encouraged in your faith walk and inspired to pay attention to His gentle voice too!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey friends, thank you for listening to the Her God Story podcast where you will always hear a good story to encourage and inspire you in your walk with the Lord.
(00:09):
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(00:29):
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We've recently entered a new year and many churches start the year off with a season of prayer and sometimes even fasting.
This is a time to set aside to focus more fully on the Lord to get his perspective and direction, basically to recalibrate our lives to better follow Jesus.
(01:22):
And it's a great practice.
It trains us to pay attention to what God is saying and paying attention to God's voice and leading are critical to our walk with the Lord.
Proverbs 4, 20 through 22 highlight this.
The New Living Translation reads,
My child, pay attention to what I say.
(01:42):
Listen carefully to my words.
Don't lose sight of them.
Let them penetrate deep in your heart for they will bring life to those who find them and healing to their whole body.
My guest, Paula Mullen, has spent a lifetime following the Lord.
From her early years growing up in an immigrant community in New York, Paula loved God and longed to follow him.
(02:04):
And God revealed himself to her as she pursued knowing him in the only way she knew.
As she has paid attention to his leading, God has directed her steps into a fulfilling career, a loving marriage and motherhood.
It's not always been easy, but as Paula has listened to God's word, he has directed her steps.
(02:25):
Welcome, Paula.
Thank you. It's good to be here.
Paula, tell a little bit about growing up in a first generation immigrant family and how from an early age you had faith in God.
Well, my mother, who I was the first born, so she did not speak any English when I was born.
She did the best she knew with her limited English abilities.
(02:50):
So she taught me prayers and all the prayers in Italian and she told me about God and Jesus and how wonderful he was.
And my mother had a great way of sharing stories and I was captivated.
So right from the start, there I was listening about Jesus and wanting to know more.
And you were living in New York being an Italian immigrant, your family really connected into the Catholic community there.
(03:16):
My father, who was quite a little older than my mom, their marriage was arranged by the families.
My mother used to always tell me, don't forget that your father gave money to build the Italian Catholic Church.
And when you read the stories about it, the community came together and the history, the stories are that people gave even their pennies
(03:47):
because it was a big deal to have a church just for the Italian American community.
The Polish Americans had theirs and we get ours and then I guess everybody else had their own.
So that was how it worked out. So yeah, it was great.
Yeah. And as you were also growing up, you got a real foundation in the Bible by attending Catholic school, which really was a stretch for your family, wasn't it?
(04:11):
Yes, it was a stretch.
Now, back then, the diocese funded a good portion of it, but we had to pay for other things.
And but my parents somehow, I don't even know how they did it, found the money to like pay for the books and the uniforms and different things.
And God just always came through for things like that.
(04:32):
I mean, we didn't get to join fun clubs or anything like that.
But yeah, that's how we went through school.
And I, for one, had loving priests and nuns that poured into us.
I know not everybody, some people say, oh, whatever, we didn't, we didn't have it.
We had very loving people to train us and teach us.
(04:54):
Yeah.
And so when you took your first communion and your first confession, they were quite meaningful to you.
Yes, we, I remember our teacher telling us that we had to write down the prayer that we were going to pray and we got when we received first communion.
And it was really important to me, but I remember when we first, when we, when I got my, when I received my first communion, they had said to us,
(05:22):
when you receive your first communion, Jesus will come and live in your heart.
I believed it.
I didn't know about making a confession or anything like that, but I believed it.
And I believe at that time in a seven year old way, I did receive the Holy Spirit.
And then, I mean, you know, Jesus come live in my heart.
And then when we were in sixth grade, we received the sacrament of confirmation.
(05:48):
That's where they told us when you get confirmed, the Holy Spirit come, comes and lives inside you and you can become ambassadors for Christ.
I loved that idea and I thought I could tell everybody about the Lord and that kind of thing.
So the foundation was there.
It was great.
Yeah.
So even though you had that rich faith, you went through your communion, your confirmation, something in you knew there was more.
(06:13):
You really couldn't put your finger on it, but share about that realization.
And when you made actually the decision to make Jesus your Lord.
So probably around high school time and around that time, the Catholic charismatic movement was beginning to really take root.
And we had a prayer group in our high school that had this prayer group.
(06:38):
And they told us about receiving Jesus and that kind of thing.
And I just was like, this is what I want.
This is what I want.
And I remember praying and asking Jesus into my life, into my heart and I wanted everything that the Bible says that we can have.
I wanted it.
(06:59):
And I eventually think I got most of it.
Yeah.
If not all of it.
And there was a particular nun you told me a story about that really made an impact on you.
So when I was a young girl, I was in this prayer group and it was the math teacher, the principal who was a priest.
And it was kind of a handpicked group.
But we would meet every Monday or Monday night or I don't remember Monday night, Wednesday night, whatever.
(07:24):
And we would go and pray.
We would talk about the Lord.
And then we would be assigned and I put that in quotes to do acts of mercy.
And for whatever reason, I pretty much always chose to go to the nursing home and I went with one of the nuns.
We would go regularly maybe about once a month or so.
(07:45):
And I would I did a lot of observing.
But I remember one time where there was this older woman.
She probably was cognitively, cognitively impaired or something.
And she liked the sisters cross, the wooden cross.
It was really a beautiful cross.
It was a simple Franciscan style with the brown cross and the habit thing.
(08:09):
And Sister Caritas, if that was her name, she just took it off and put it on the lake.
And I was like, so mesmerized at the selflessness of it all.
At the time, I thought I would never get my neck this away.
And we stayed friends for many years and she later went on to work with the poor and met some very poor communities in Mexico.
(08:35):
And she's always lived her life in that way.
And she was a great example.
Yeah.
So once you did accept Jesus as your Lord, you got involved and your mom too.
And probably some of your other family members in the charismatic, the Catholic charismatic movement, which was actually I got saved when I was going to a Catholic church, not at the Catholic church.
(08:59):
But we also were involved in the carousel Catholic charismatic movement for a while.
So share kind of just how that helps solidify your walk with the Lord.
So with that, I had some really early teachers who really knew the Lord.
And I will honestly say there was nobody that was ever anti-Catholic.
(09:20):
And my mother used to go to women's and glow meetings back then.
And they're still around.
And at some point they asked her to be on the, I don't know, some kind of committee or something. And my mother was like, there is to be on the committee.
And I don't know if I speak good enough.
I'm like, Mom, you speak great.
Because, you know, by that point, she spoke English.
(09:41):
But that's where I got a lot even more of a deeper understanding of the Bible.
And so I loved listening to those ladies.
I just, I thought they were great.
And they were good to me.
So I got even deeper in the Lord.
And so when I was 17 is really when I made a real commitment to follow the Lord really, no matter what.
(10:06):
Yeah.
I was afraid God was going to tell me to be a missionary because I don't know.
That's what I thought.
But he did.
So you really had a really caring faith community.
And then you went away to college.
So how did you keep your, how growing in your faith when you had to kind of make it on your own?
(10:30):
Yeah.
And the college at that time had recently was a Catholic college, but it had gone independent or private.
So the religious aspect was removed.
But it was still, we had Mass every day on campus and that kind of thing.
But I was still participating in whatever was Bible studies and different things like that.
(10:57):
So I did that.
But I still wanted more and more.
I can't, it's hard to explain, but I just, I just loved the idea of dedicating my whole life to God.
Probably people in high school probably would have said, oh, she's most likely to be a nun.
But I wanted a husband and kids, you know, you can't do that.
(11:17):
And then I went on an internship my junior year.
And I think that it may have been the pinnacle of my growth time, so to speak, although we're always growing.
But my, the girl that ended up being my roommate, her mom was a former Catholic and the owner of a Christian book store.
(11:43):
And they, both my friends and her mom, poured into me like you wouldn't believe.
As a matter of fact, I even lived with the late, her name was Terry for a few months when I was getting going back to school for something.
And I lived there rent free.
Again, another example, God, Pete, help me go through my education.
(12:07):
So we would Karen and I every morning, we would in particular pick out a certain scripture.
And we would say, okay, we're going to see you at the end of the day and we're going to talk about how this scripture worked out in our lives.
And well, and behold, I promise you every single scripture that we picked ministered to us and others that whole time.
(12:32):
And nobody knew in the program knew we were, we were Christians.
I think they probably thought maybe we're just like nerdy girls, maybe I don't know.
But it was, it was just so exciting.
And Karen, who later became a lawyer and that kind of thing.
She was really into really digging deep into the word and the history and the word studies and that kind of thing.
(12:55):
So I learned from, that was a big example of really how to pursue studying God's word.
And you saw the word of God come alive in your life every day.
Every day.
And I guess part of it could maybe it's youth, but it was really there.
And the interesting thing is like, we're kind of not to that extent, but lately I've been sending her and some very few select people, different scriptures every day.
(13:23):
And not every day, but several times a week anyway.
And they'll come back and say, that scripture ministered to me.
And I'm like, oh, I feel like it's back in the day when I was 20 years old and so excited.
Well, you know, when the Bible, one of the other verses says, when you seek me, you will find me when you search me with all your heart.
And I think when we look for God in our days, when we pay attention, right, he reveals himself to us and he does work out what we need in our lives.
(13:50):
He'll show us that scripture to help us walk in a way that pleases him that day.
And he'll let us know, hey, this is what I'm going to do in your life.
So I think it is that paying attention.
You are very intentional about paying attention to what God was saying to you and looking for his hand at work in your day.
Yeah, yeah.
(14:11):
And that the paying attention part has been a theme in my life.
The Italians have a phrase, Atenzione.
And another phrase that basically means the same thing.
And so my mom used to say that.
And then, you know, like when I was going to school, she'd be like, pay attention to your teachers, listen to your teachers, do what they say.
(14:31):
That kind of thing.
Yeah.
So you mentioned you graduated from college and then God opened a door for you to go to DC, a place you had always dreamed about going.
But that's where God started changing your desires and directions.
So tell us a little bit about what got you to DC and your time there, what God did there.
(14:51):
So I attended a post-Baccalaureate certificate program to become a paralegal.
And I chose the generalist track.
And so this school, there were two big schools that people went to to do that.
One was in DC and one was in Long Island and the one in Long Island fit my finances better than the DC one.
(15:17):
So that's why I went there.
Otherwise, I would have gone to the DC one.
So I went and, you know, completed the program.
And what the school did was you were supposed to give them the name of 100 law firms that you wanted them to send resumes to.
And you do your own resume.
I thought, 100 resumes at the time.
(15:40):
I was like, but I gave them 100 names and they said, you might not even get any interviews.
Well, I got one interview and another comment that we don't have any positions,
but I commend your initiative.
This was a multinational law firm.
(16:01):
Any attorney will know the name of this firm.
And there I was, the only paralegal in the DC office.
Why I got that job.
All I can say was the Lord, because I didn't have any contacts.
I didn't know people in that realm other than maybe like my hometown, but I can have a small town.
(16:21):
They wouldn't have known it.
So that's how that came about.
Really was the Lord that opened that door because nothing is no other reason you would have gotten that job.
No other reason whatsoever.
And it was an amazing job.
It was wonderful.
I was after five years.
We had very high visible people in the law firm.
(16:44):
One of them was a former congressman who's passed away and he gave me.
Twice he gave us personal tours of the of the Congress and my mom came the second time and he just was like, oh, this is, you know, tip on meals chair.
I got to sit in his chair and stuff like that.
And so yeah, it was great.
(17:04):
And I learned so much and living in DC could be overwhelming, but you connected with a community there that I did.
I did the friends that I made was actually on the bus.
I heard these two ladies talking about the Lord.
They were sitting in front of me or behind me.
I don't remember now.
I was just going to ask them.
(17:26):
I said, ma'am, do you know of a good church now thinking about it?
I'm like, you know, they could have said anything and I wouldn't have known the difference.
And they told me the name of this church and it was the Christ Church Christ Church.
I think they've changed their name, but it was on Massachusetts Avenue.
And I went there and I remember walking in there and there were these, I guess they were elders.
(17:52):
And they were like, hello.
I was like, hello.
And I said, there was somebody on the bus telling me that this was a good church and and they really, really were.
And I, there was a small group of us that were unofficial singles in a group.
We made our own group, but we didn't call it that.
And it was nice to be around professionals who had a love for the Lord and didn't buy into a lot of things that the world say is important.
(18:23):
So that was really neat.
And in DC, you can hear a whole lot of different things, can't you?
And being grounded in a good fellowship was critical.
It was critical.
And we would meet once a week and whatever night it was, and we would pray for each other and pray for our jobs.
I mean, and everyone had very, very great professional jobs for our level of education at the time.
(18:48):
So, you know, some were working it and well, just all these different agencies and different things like that.
So it was, it was great.
And a lot of them were former Catholics and a friend of mine, I remember he was telling his mom that he was born again and the mother was upset.
(19:09):
And, and he said, the mom, don't be upset.
It was the Catholic Church that gave me the foundation to accept Jesus on a different, deeper level.
And, and that was kind of cool.
Yeah, it's like there were other people that really understood.
Yeah. Yeah.
And, and during that time, you had the opportunity to go to Israel, which is an amazing story.
(19:35):
Tell us about that story.
Here, and what's even more amazing was I didn't technically have enough leave time, but I had a roommate who was amazing person.
And she was organizing trip to Israel and this kind of thing.
Now she does a lot of great things in that whole world.
(19:55):
But I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave my boss and, you know, I told my boss and he told me go.
He says, you're never gonna get this opportunity.
So I went, it was wonderful.
And the group, and it was for the Feast of Tabernacles during the Feast of Tabernacles.
And the whole point was to support Israel and support the Jewish people.
(20:16):
You know, we did, we did all the things.
We did, went to Yad Vashem, we went to the garden tomb, all of that stuff, Mount Carmel, everything, the whole Chneel deal.
And when I went there, I actually got baptized in the Jordan,
which I don't think I would have done in the U.S.
because I felt like I didn't want to offend any of my former teachers, but I'm like, I'm in Israel.
(20:43):
It's got to be okay to be baptized in the Jordan.
And the group that I was with, they were, I think they were Lutherans, evangelical Lutherans and this couple pastors.
And so they were really nice with the people.
Loved that trip.
It was life changing, life changing.
And God spoke to you there.
(21:03):
That's right.
So I was overlooking the, where Jesus did the Sermon on the Mount, the attitudes, which is interesting because I took a voice speech class at my college and one of my final speeches was the Beatitudes.
And this little nun came up to me and there's a content there and everything.
(21:26):
She was Italian and she spoke to me in Italian, she figured out that I know understood Italian, but she told me she kind of kind of kind of got close to me and she says,
listen to the Lord, he's trying to tell you something here.
And I was like, yes, I was like eating it up.
Of course, I love the nuns because, you know, there are authority figures to me that I care about.
(21:49):
And I wrote to her a couple of times, but I remember when I wrote to her after a few years,
she says, yes, I remember a young woman there and I'm wondering how she was.
I was hoping to see her at her comment because she's back in Rome, but I was living in Italy this a few years ago, but COVID had us all in lockdown.
So I never, I never did get to see her in person.
(22:13):
Yes, I loved him.
Israel was great.
So when you got back from Israel, you started thinking about a future or maybe you were thinking about it before.
But the Lord kind of directed you in a different way than being a congresswoman or an attorney.
And what kind of opened that door for you?
What happened was a number of attorneys would come into my office.
(22:37):
I had my own office, which was a big deal.
Have an office.
It was not a window office.
That was an office.
I mean, the window office is, you know, and they would kind of close the door and they would tell me their problems.
And I was, I was not as outgoing then as I am now.
So I, you know, probably looks like, you know, more of a listening ear and I would be listening.
(22:58):
And most of the time it was about their conflicts, either with their, mostly about with their secretaries.
And I kept thinking to myself, okay, I don't think the problem is you.
I don't even think the problem is the secretary.
I think the problem is, is that one or one or both of you are mismatched in your careers.
(23:20):
You know, maybe, you know, I don't know, you know, like maybe you're more detailed, right?
And they're not.
And so I would go home and talk to my roommate who she's very, she was in the journey and she'd be like, you know, you can do either.
You can either go to law school or you can be a counselor.
You can get a master's in counseling.
I was like thinking about it.
(23:41):
I'm thinking about it.
And to be honest, I chose the counseling program because it fit into my budget again.
I couldn't justify taking out such a huge law loan, law loan for law school and having to pay it back.
And besides, I like the subject.
So I went to Regent University.
(24:03):
Yeah.
How did you get, how did God direct you to Regent because that was a fledgling CBNU at the time?
That's right.
It was CBNU.
My mom would watch 700.
And she loved the pet carrapazón.
And she would send her little, you know, $10 jack to Pat.
(24:23):
And I actually, I was in the hospital when I was a senior in high school.
I was sick and I was watching TV and I would watch Pat on the show and I thought, that guy's really smart.
And they have a school.
They don't go to school there and I thought, oh, that can never happen.
That can never happen.
So that had been kind of set in my head like a few years earlier.
(24:45):
And then with the help of my old roommate, she, she'd be home.
She's very, you know, she was like directing me.
She was like, did you, did you, why?
Yeah, did you, why?
Yeah.
And we finally applied.
And I was like, oh, they're not going to accept me.
I don't know what I know.
And they did.
And there I was.
And I really enjoyed the program.
(25:06):
I mean, to me, it was like, I was, it was also a guilty pleasure because it was so easy.
I was like, well, it doesn't take, you know, it was just like, but, you know, I, you know, God gave me the grace for it.
So yeah.
And he provided for you as well because you were able to step right into a job.
I was.
And one of the attorneys, one of the associates in DC is like, oh, you're going to Virginia Beach.
(25:29):
I know a lot of lawyers there.
And he gave me a bunch of names to contact.
And I ended up getting a job with one of the bigger law firms in Norfolk.
It's one of the older established firm.
And I got a job.
And so while my friends were making, I was making double what many of my friends were making.
So that really was a blessing.
(25:52):
And the law firm was very accommodating to my schedule and when I need to change it and that kind of thing.
Yeah.
So while you were at grad school, this was a complete departure from anything you
had done in the past.
And what did God do in you while you were there?
Because he was preparing you to impact others.
(26:12):
Yeah.
So I, I realized I didn't want to get a license, a professional therapist license.
I thought I would, I remember my, one of my professors saying to me, you know, they do these reviews
and that kind of thing.
And she said, you know, I think you're a little bit too task oriented to,
(26:32):
she probably said it nicer than that.
But I'm not sure that getting a life, being a licensed therapist would be your thing.
And I remember one of the classes that we had, I had, well, I'm sorry.
What it was is my final project ended up being a project where I designed a workshop for women reentering the workplace.
(26:57):
And of course, as the technical part of it, you know, the statistics and all that kind of thing.
But the thing that I loved was designing that, that workshop.
And I can honestly say that workshop was the basis for the next phase, literally my professional life.
(27:17):
And I worked for a federally funded agency and we would go into low income neighborhoods.
And, you know, each of us had a different city that we tackled.
Most of our clients, the way the grant was written was directed toward low income adults.
But we didn't, we, we saw everyone.
So one minute I can be going into an area that my coworkers are like,
(27:42):
be careful when you're there, that kind of thing, to retiring naval officers talking about their thing of leaving.
And I loved the idea that I knew all the basics with counseling,
because sometimes I would bring up something and be like, you know, maybe you need to explore this a little bit more.
Maybe you need a little bit of medication, maybe a doctor can help you, whatever.
(28:03):
So I could direct them and, and I would be done with them in about six sessions, six or less.
And I did financial aid and fill out the forms and all that stuff.
So which I never thought I would fill out financial aid forms.
But when I was in college, I was selected by the college to be a representative on Capitol Hill for financial aid increases to private university, the colleges.
(28:28):
So even then God was preparing.
And I, I enjoyed that job.
It could be a little, you know, stressful sometimes, but overall I loved it.
And then you really were helping people find their niche.
Yeah, yeah, we did interest testing at, you know, you get interested all the different tests that are out there to help you find that.
(28:52):
And I, and I really liked that.
And some people, you know, they would leave.
Yeah, that's, that's it.
I knew that.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm like, great, this confirms what you want.
Or they could have thought of that because there would be like some jobs that would come up as a match, like funeral director.
I remember that would come up and people would get kind of upset about it.
(29:13):
And I said, no, no, no, you don't need to be upset.
You just need to look at what their basic duties are.
It's really a social job.
It's a compassionate job.
You have to have, you have to pay attention to detail, getting an event off the ground.
And they're like, oh, I never thought of it that way.
And so that was really nice.
Yeah.
And so while you were pursuing what God had called you to do, God was orchestrating things behind the scenes.
(29:39):
To fulfill the desires of your heart.
Share about how you met and got married.
There were about four Regent CBN you guys that took me under their wing.
And they just kind of helped me along and pushing me out there like, okay, you've got to make it known that you're available.
I'm like, I don't know what to do.
Because I know how to be friends, but you know, we've got, you know, with people and that kind of thing.
(30:03):
And so I met Tom at a friend of mine was having, she called me up kind of in a panic, kind of not really a real panic, but just, she says, Paula, we're having a party and it's all guys and we need at least one more female.
(30:25):
And I was like, okay, I'm coming.
And I was proud of myself because it was a Saturday night and I didn't, I felt like I had arrived. I didn't need to be out partying, whatever.
And so I went to the place.
It was an apartment place and Tom answered the door, but it wasn't his place.
It was the girl's place.
And he looked at me.
(30:46):
And again, here, here comes the pay attention part.
The instant he opened his door, the door, he said, you're the Sicilian fish.
And I'll explain what that means in a second, but I knew that God was telling me, pay attention.
And I pretty much knew from that moment on, things were going to be very different.
(31:09):
And so what happened was he told me later, oh yeah.
So there was a progressive dinner that we had had a few weeks earlier.
From your church, yeah.
Yeah, from our single scripted church.
And I was one of the hostesses.
But my, my, you know, my plate was filled, so to speak.
So my, all the slots were taken.
(31:30):
And he said, yeah, yeah, I guess I got there too late.
I didn't get to go.
I had to go to somebody else's house.
And so that's how that started.
But from this, like I said, pretty much from the instant I met Tom, I knew this was serious.
I didn't.
And the thing that really attracted me to him was I never had to guess
(31:54):
where his intentions were.
I knew right off a lot of times, I was like, that game, he played, does he like me?
Does he not like me?
That kind of thing.
No, Tom, and it wasn't like he was like, oh, you're the one for me.
I just, his actions were very deliberate.
But he's a science, the science kind of guy.
So everything's going to be, you know, very laid out, phase one, phase two.
(32:20):
And I think I, you know, was, I'm sure in his mind, he was like, okay, now I'm this age
and so I must get married in the next two to three years.
So you went about your relationship very intentionally.
Yes.
And not frivolously.
(32:40):
And there were a few things that really impressed you about Tom.
Share, you know, as, as you were paying attention to what God was showing, you know, share what a couple of those were.
So I'm, if you meet the two of us, I'm the talker and he's the steady rock.
I guess.
(33:00):
And so like the first time he came to my apartment, he brought these two huge textbooks on compound interest.
Do I have interest in compound interest?
No interest.
But because I was infatuated with this guy, I was willing to listen to him.
And actually the way he explained it made a lot of sense.
(33:21):
And I was like, well, why did I start doing that years ago?
And he was very planned and organized, but not rigid.
I mean, he can change his mind and that kind of thing otherwise, because that's not a good thing.
So it was that.
And he, he, and the other thing is for me, it was really important that whoever I married,
(33:44):
he had to love my grandmother.
Although I love my mother.
I mean, I love my mother.
I loved her dearly.
But if you couldn't connect with Nonna, you couldn't connect.
And my grandmother spoke no English.
She came to America.
I think she was like 59 or something like that.
So she didn't really learn the language and they hit it off immediately.
(34:09):
But my grandmother could do that.
She could be like, you know, she pointed, she smiled and she show you like, so they had their way of talking so much so that when it came to
not when we got engaged, she actually bought his engagement ring.
And of course I got the wedding in form.
And my grandmother lived on SSI benefits.
(34:30):
That's, that's not a lot of money, but she was able to scrape down and help because that's she wanted to show her love.
And at first I wasn't going to let her do it.
And then I was like, I need to let her do it because this is how she wants to show her respect and love for him.
Yeah.
So your dream as you were pursuing God, what God had for you, you know, your, your dream and you got married, but your, your dreams of a
(34:56):
husband and a family, they seem to be coming right into line.
But things weren't quite so easy.
You had a few hard years.
Tell us what happened.
I had a series of miscarriages and probably an average of one per year.
I got pregnant right away.
Getting pregnant wasn't my problem.
(35:18):
My problem was staying pregnant.
And it was a very, it was a difficult night.
After the fourth miscarriage, I told Tom, I said, Tom, you've got to get me to see the pastor at the church.
And I just felt like I needed that grounding.
I mean, people were praying for us all along, but I went and we had an interim pastor and he was very, very kind.
(35:43):
And he, and he said, I can't tell you why this is happening.
But all I do know is that maybe if you knew, you couldn't handle it.
And for me, that really brought me a lot of, I don't know, not closure, but peace.
I thought, okay, okay, I can deal with that, that maybe I don't understand.
(36:07):
And so then we started the adoption process.
And that, I know the South is stressful and they tell you, okay, you can take many years, blah, blah, blah.
And it didn't take as long as they said it would.
We were originally going for an international adoption,
(36:28):
which you kind of guaranteed.
Child, so to speak.
And an infant, you really wanted an infant, didn't you?
I did really.
And so, so you were going for an international adoption.
(36:48):
And we, yeah, so we were doing that.
And they do this thing where you have to send your stuff off to the state to be vetted.
And they're doing a background check.
And I thought, oh, you know, maybe I've read too many, you know, Mr. Novels.
Maybe this will be the time that I find out that my husband has a secret past.
(37:11):
He did not have a secret past.
He does not have a secret past.
It was me.
And it had to do with my first name.
So because I kind of always went by a different form of my name.
And, oh, and all I had to do was talk to the lawyer and have it fixed.
(37:32):
And we got it fixed.
But then.
So your adoption was put on hold.
It was put on hold.
Because of basically administrative differences.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I had to call a lawyer and I'm like, okay, what do I do?
And blah, blah, blah.
And we took care of it.
And in the meantime, the director of the agency called and said, we are having a very unusual problem.
(37:53):
We suddenly have a number of infant domestic children, babies that are either born or going to be born.
Would you be willing to switch from international to into the domestic?
And I was like, yeah, because it was cheaper and it just was whatever.
(38:14):
So we did.
And easier, quicker.
Much quicker.
And, lo and behold, our child was born.
I was got the call in my office.
I had later moved on from the federally funded agency and I was working at the law school and I was doing all the kids of a student's resumes.
This is basically what I was doing before just just for law students.
(38:36):
And I remember the ladies.
Mrs. Mullen, your daughter has been born.
I was like, oh, we knew that the baby was going to be born any day, but you know, it still was kind of exciting.
And within eight hours, we met our child and I was holding her and rocking her and they put her in a little special nursery and we had privacy.
(39:01):
And she was there for two days.
You know, she was released two days later and we took her straight home.
Well, we took her straight to church and we put her at the altar and we prayed for her and we dedicated her right there.
And it wasn't because I thought this is a magical thing.
I wanted symbolically her first act to be that's what that's what her parents took her.
(39:22):
Yeah, being the mother of an adopted child, having an adopted child.
How have you communicated that with her and how has she received it?
I know, you know, it can be a challenge.
But what was the process that you and Tom decided to take?
There was an elder in our church and I remember he said to us, you talk to her even though she's just an infant and tell her how much you love her and that you adopted her.
(39:46):
So she she knew all that she really did.
So one time another friend of ours adopted the baby from overseas.
We were literally in the Dollar Tree near my house getting her a balloon, the new baby.
And I said, oh, we're going to go see the baby that was adopted.
And she screams out, she was adopted like me.
(40:09):
And I said, yes, yes.
And she was all excited.
Yeah, she had some understanding that she had adopted.
Yes, yeah.
So then she was a very healthy little girl.
And one day she was in kindergarten, I think it was.
And the teacher called and said, you've got to come and get her.
She's not she's not feeling well.
(40:29):
It was really unusual for her not to feel it.
So I went and got her and we were watching Anna Green Gables and she said there's a part in there where they talk about sending her back because, you know, and was so rambunctious and whatever.
And she just she's kind of like, I could tell that something was going in her little, you know, 60 year old brain.
(40:52):
It's just money.
You're going to send me back.
I said, no, I said, we would never do that.
God adopted us.
We adopted you.
And this is the you know, this is how it is.
And she said, who could I was really worried about that.
And and she doesn't she doesn't really talk about it a whole lot when she does.
(41:16):
It's more or less.
No, I don't really have much desire and that kind of things.
And we've talked about some maybe potential.
I don't know, maybe some health concerns or whatever.
I think when the time comes, she will do that and she has our blessing to do that.
Yeah.
(41:36):
So she really was settled.
I mean, she knew foundationally that you had adopted her for life.
Right.
And that settled her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you had been a career woman for many years and really enjoyed it up to that point.
So, you know, you had a new baby now.
What was the transition like away from work because you did choose?
I believe work.
(41:56):
I did choose to work.
So I had a project that I was working on and the project was going to finish in a few months.
And I just was really, I'm really big about keep keeping my word to a much as possible.
So I found a lady, a wonderful woman to watch it for about six weeks, but I hated being away from her.
(42:17):
I couldn't handle it.
And even though she was with somebody we loved.
So I at the end of that project, so I was looking for a nanny, but nobody bit.
Nobody was answering and nobody was applying.
So Tom and I, we felt that that was really, really just me to quit and stay.
(42:38):
No.
And so I did literally like two, three days later, I'm getting tons of applicants, but I was like,
you know what?
I know I'm getting applicants, but this was right.
So in some ways the adjustment was really painless, smooth, all that.
I loved what I was doing.
(42:59):
I didn't feel, I mean, because I had been a career counselor, so I had spoken to many women who had this thing.
Like it's my turn now to be a career, that kind of thing.
And I was like, well, it's really okay.
The only thing that really bothered me was if I was going to be able to have some friends that were a little bit older like me.
(43:23):
It's not that I have anything against the young people, but it's a different type of mothering motherhood.
So I joined the mom's group at our church and.
Because you were a little older when you finally did adopt.
We did.
We did.
That was in my early 40s and there we were.
But my mother and my both grandmothers had babies well into their late 40s.
(43:50):
So I was kind of using them like, okay, they did it.
I can do it.
So yeah, so that's what we did.
And then this particular mom's group had a lot of moms similar to me.
You know, they were older.
Some of them had gone to school with and some of them were adopted moms.
Some of them biological moms and the next thing I know I'm coordinating the mom's group at the church and and I really enjoyed it.
(44:16):
I really do.
Actually, mom's was at the time it was a great organization.
I used to tell the girls, you know, if you really want to go back to work, you should consider being on, you know, either coordinator or small group leader because they do a lot of really good training that you could put into the workforce.
Later on, I didn't even did that.
(44:37):
But so we loved it.
And, you know, I was at church a lot because I attacked it like a job and Catherine always come with me so much so that she felt like she owned the church.
She walked around.
You know, she knew what the offices were.
So one other neat thing that that God did was allow you to live abroad, which would never have happened if you had been if you had kept working.
(45:07):
No, it wouldn't have happened.
And so when I was in college, I wanted to go to France or Italy and to do a year abroad because that's what you do in classic.
You know, but when you're in that kind of an, you know, you go to a classical school and that's what you do. You learn Latin and all this stuff.
(45:29):
But it just wasn't in the box that we just we couldn't have afforded it.
And I was okay with that.
And when I was a little, little girl, I used to my mom and I used to role play and I would always be Paula from somewhere else.
Paula from California, but I was mostly Paula from Washington, DC, and my mother would act surprised that we come home.
(45:52):
And so ever since I married Tom, he's always been he's always looking to advance his career.
That kind of thing.
One was in Australia, one independent order.
And then one day he said, oh, I'm going to apply this is Italy job.
My father.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't really listening to see listening. I wasn't paying attention.
(46:13):
Yeah.
And I thought, okay, yeah, whatever. Well, literally like a year and a half later, two years, whatever it was, he says to me, comes in the room and he looked a little, I thought maybe something happened with his family and something had an accident.
He goes, they just are offering me this job in Italy.
We have like 48 hours to respond to the first phase of the application or whatever it was.
(46:38):
I was like, what? I said, nothing. You haven't gotten any good. No, no.
And so he called his dad and parents.
And so we all decided, go ahead and accept it.
So we accepted it.
And then, you know, you have to go through a few more different things, but every step of the way, he would be progressing.
(46:59):
So I guess it gave me a little bit of time, a tiny bit of time to get used to the idea.
And so we accepted and you know, you give them a three year commitment and then they reevaluate.
And so we accepted.
We moved there in June of 2019.
January 2020, COVID hits hard, really hard.
(47:25):
And Italy basically locked down for the next few months.
And in the meantime, our daughter had to have two separate knee surgeries to reconstruct her knees from.
They think it's a genetic thing that causes them to dislocate.
And the first time we had to wait a while because we got to wait for the hospitals to open up and have whatever.
(47:48):
And so we went for the first surgery.
So you actually came back to the States for the surgery, didn't you?
So it took a while for you to be able to travel.
It did. And Tom had to go up the chain to get permission and all this stuff.
But you know, the timing was right and then it opened up and so we came back the first time and we stayed with friends and they brought a bed downstairs.
(48:12):
So Catherine didn't have to go upstairs and that, you know, that surgery takes about four to six months to complete.
That surgery went really well.
She basically exceeded all the guidance.
So went back to Italy.
Maybe a couple of weeks after she got back, the other knee goes.
(48:34):
And we knew that this was a possibility, but we really, I mean, the way that we didn't realize it would be so.
So we thought it would be later, like in her life.
But and I was like, oh my God, what should I do?
And I called my friend and she said, the one friend that I stayed with and she's just don't worry about it.
Come back, come back.
We'll go through this together.
(48:55):
And so Thomas in Italy, you know, doing his work, you know, all that kind of thing.
And we are and then the second surgery was very difficult.
It was very different than the first surgery.
And I could tell from when I went in the room, you know, in the recovery room with the atmosphere to change.
And she says, mom, this is so different.
(49:16):
This is not like the first one.
And so she finally was making some headway with it.
Well, and behold, she's in a, she's a passenger in a car and their hit head on.
She was in a very terrible, very terrible car accident.
Someone said that there was no earthly explanation how the people came out alive.
(49:42):
But what it did was it really impacted that bad knee.
And she's still in therapy two years later, physical therapy for the knee and now a little bit of the hip.
They said, you know, there's a terrible there, but it is what it is.
As they say.
Yeah.
So, you know, Tom was in Italy, you were back in the States staying with friends, but you really saw God provide all along the way.
(50:07):
I mean, first of all, being able to stay with a friend who let you stay for months, but share some of the other ways that God made provisions.
So after the second surgery, maybe about two months later, a realtor called and said,
you know, your tenant, because we were renting our house out, your tenant wants to, wants to know if he can be, they can be released from the lease.
(50:32):
And I was like, yeah, because by that time with the timing, Tom's time in Italy was coming to an end.
And so that's what we did.
And the guy, you know, I think he was a newlywed and they wanted to buy a house.
So it was a win-win for everybody.
And then I had an empty house.
So because your stuff was still in Italy.
(50:54):
It was in Italy and in storage.
Yeah.
You know, so and I couldn't get to storage and get to the story.
So we, I went to Ikea.
God was so good.
I bought some beds, two beds, table, four chairs, you know, Ikea furniture and people from the church, some guys from the church put it all together.
(51:19):
They didn't charge me anything.
And the one, one of the guys had just that week before put in a whole Ikea, excuse me, whole Ikea kitchen in his house.
So he knew exactly and they had the tools and everything.
And I have to say it was really nice.
(51:39):
I mean, it was, it was great.
And yeah, God just came through and, and we were near her doctor so we could get the care she needed.
And, and then I, yeah.
And it was a tough road, but through it all you've, you've really, you've grown in the Lord.
You've seen Catherine grow in the Lord.
Sometimes that can really shake faith.
(52:03):
Yeah.
Can it, but the Lord has used it.
The pain.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To bring you all closer to him.
Yeah.
And you know, the Bible, God doesn't promise us everything's going to be smooth.
You will have troubles.
And, and, and that's, and that's what it is.
(52:23):
And that's, I mean, there was a, you know, that's, that's what sees us through.
And I think, you know, having a good foundation based on truth because we all probably have,
you know, life experiences that shape us that are not truth.
(52:44):
And if you know the truth, it will set you free as Jesus.
Yeah.
And so, yeah.
So it's been a long road and, and would I do it again?
I mean, I don't know that I want to do some of the, some of the things again, but yeah, I would.
Yeah.
Because.
So how have, you know, in these times, what would have been some of those foundational
(53:10):
aspects of your faith that have kept you through some of those trials?
So when, when we were back to the internship days, one of the scriptures at that time that
really minister to me and my roommate would always say, I can do all things.
Surprise, just right.
And sometimes, you know, we say that, you know, it's kind of a rote kind of thing because
(53:33):
it's one of the people we call quote that a lot, but we can do hard things.
We don't want to do hard things because who does?
And if you keep putting your faith in God and somehow if you can separate what you can
understand from what you do understand that God is there, you can do this.
(53:57):
Yeah.
You can do this.
So as we close, Paula, would you share about a woman of the Bible whose story has inspired
or encouraged or taught you something?
There are many wonderful women in the Bible.
And years ago, I read this book, All the Women in the Bible, Of the Bible or whatever it was
called.
I think it also was Dr. Lockyer.
And I love that book.
I read it like three times.
(54:19):
You know, Deborah was a judge, Esther stayed the nation, you know, like, I don't want to
save any nations.
But out of them all, he started the whole thing.
But Mary, I think sometimes, sometimes people don't think about her enough.
(54:41):
She was an example of motherhood, adopted mother.
I mean, her husband was Jesus Foster father and her willingness to say yes and follow
him.
And, you know, when Jesus wanted to turn the water into wine, she says, do whatever he
tells you.
I mean, that's a pretty big thing to, you know, entrust someone with, especially if you're
(55:05):
a mom, you want to be in charge.
And she was a young girl.
You know, 14, 15, whatever she was.
And I think she's, I think women should learn from her, have that spirit of yes.
And, you know, why, you know, we don't know why that chose her.
I mean, I mean, there are lots of reasons why, but you may not really know that, but
(55:28):
just know that you're in the place where you're supposed to be.
And Mary is a wonderful example to mothers, to women, to men, too.
She was great.
Yeah.
I mean, she didn't know all the answers when God said, you're going to get pregnant, but
she said, be it unto me according to your will.
(55:48):
Right.
And that's a, that's a scary, that's a scary prayer or conversation to have.
Lord, be it unto me according to your will.
But when we know that God is a good God, we can say that with confidence, knowing that
everything's going to be okay.
Yeah.
In the world, not so much, but when you're in God, then yes.
(56:11):
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, Solomon was arguably the wisest man who ever lived, apart from Jesus, of
course.
And he repeatedly tells readers in the Proverbs to pay attention to the Lord.
Proverbs 22, 17 through 19, similar to the verse I started with at the beginning, reads
(56:31):
in the NIV, pay attention and turn your ear to the sayings of the wise.
Apply your heart to what I teach for it's pleasing when you keep them in your heart
and have them all ready on your lips so that your trust may be in the Lord.
You know, throughout Paul's life, she's paid attention to when God has spoken to her and
(56:53):
she has placed her trust in him wholeheartedly through the ups and downs, good times and
difficult ones.
And God has proven he is faithful.
God wants to lead you and guide you to, dear listener.
So pay attention to what he's saying to you, follow after him, and you will find he's
always faithful to you as well.
Paula, would you take a moment and pray for our listeners?
(57:16):
Yes, I'm glad to.
Father God, we come before you and Lord, wherever your person is that you want to reach, let
them stop right now and pay attention.
You pay attention that you want their heart.
You want everything from them.
And all you have to do is to ask Jesus into your life and say, I'm sorry for the sins
(57:37):
I've committed.
Help me, Jesus.
Help me.
Help me through this journey called life.
Father, I ask that you bless everyone that hears this, whether it's today, tomorrow,
15 years from now.
Let your Holy Spirit just rest on the ear of the good listener.
I would be grateful and thank you, Jesus.
Amen.
(57:57):
Well, thank you for tuning in.
Check out our show notes at hergodstory.org for scriptures and other information we talked
about.
And remember to get your free six-week devotional and a women of the Bible there.
We'd also love to pray with you on our 24-7 prayer and text line.
So give us a call or text anytime at 855-459-CARE or email us at prayer at somebodycares.org.
(58:21):
And now, dear friends, I'll read Mark 4, 24, and 25 and speak a blessing over you from
them.
Jesus said, Pay close attention to what you hear.
The closer you listen, the more understanding you will be given, and you will receive even
more.
To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given.
(58:42):
May you have ears to hear and a heart to understand all the Lord your God is saying to you.
Her God Story is a ministry of Somebody Cares America and International.
To find out more about or support the ministry, go to somebodycares.org.
Hey friends, thank you for listening to the Her God Story podcast where you will always hear a good story to encourage and inspire you in your walk with the Lord.
(00:09):
I'm so glad you tuned in.
I'm your host, Jodie Chiricosta, ministry leader at Somebody Cares America International, author and traveler on this journey with Jesus.
Hey, I have a gift for you.
It's a free six-week devotional on Women of the Bible.
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We've recently entered a new year and many churches start the year off with a season of prayer and sometimes even fasting.
This is a time to set aside to focus more fully on the Lord to get his perspective and direction, basically to recalibrate our lives to better follow Jesus.
(01:22):
And it's a great practice.
It trains us to pay attention to what God is saying and paying attention to God's voice and leading are critical to our walk with the Lord.
Proverbs 4, 20 through 22 highlight this.
The New Living Translation reads,
My child, pay attention to what I say.
(01:42):
Listen carefully to my words.
Don't lose sight of them.
Let them penetrate deep in your heart for they will bring life to those who find them and healing to their whole body.
My guest, Paula Mullen, has spent a lifetime following the Lord.
From her early years growing up in an immigrant community in New York, Paula loved God and longed to follow him.
(02:04):
And God revealed himself to her as she pursued knowing him in the only way she knew.
As she has paid attention to his leading, God has directed her steps into a fulfilling career, a loving marriage and motherhood.
It's not always been easy, but as Paula has listened to God's word, he has directed her steps.
(02:25):
Welcome, Paula.
Thank you. It's good to be here.
Paula, tell a little bit about growing up in a first generation immigrant family and how from an early age you had faith in God.
Well, my mother, who I was the first born, so she did not speak any English when I was born.
She did the best she knew with her limited English abilities.
(02:50):
So she taught me prayers and all the prayers in Italian and she told me about God and Jesus and how wonderful he was.
And my mother had a great way of sharing stories and I was captivated.
So right from the start, there I was listening about Jesus and wanting to know more.
And you were living in New York being an Italian immigrant, your family really connected into the Catholic community there.
(03:16):
My father, who was quite a little older than my mom, their marriage was arranged by the families.
My mother used to always tell me, don't forget that your father gave money to build the Italian Catholic Church.
And when you read the stories about it, the community came together and the history, the stories are that people gave even their pennies
(03:47):
because it was a big deal to have a church just for the Italian American community.
The Polish Americans had theirs and we get ours and then I guess everybody else had their own.
So that was how it worked out. So yeah, it was great.
Yeah. And as you were also growing up, you got a real foundation in the Bible by attending Catholic school, which really was a stretch for your family, wasn't it?
(04:11):
Yes, it was a stretch.
Now, back then, the diocese funded a good portion of it, but we had to pay for other things.
And but my parents somehow, I don't even know how they did it, found the money to like pay for the books and the uniforms and different things.
And God just always came through for things like that.
(04:32):
I mean, we didn't get to join fun clubs or anything like that.
But yeah, that's how we went through school.
And I, for one, had loving priests and nuns that poured into us.
I know not everybody, some people say, oh, whatever, we didn't, we didn't have it.
We had very loving people to train us and teach us.
(04:54):
Yeah.
And so when you took your first communion and your first confession, they were quite meaningful to you.
Yes, we, I remember our teacher telling us that we had to write down the prayer that we were going to pray and we got when we received first communion.
And it was really important to me, but I remember when we first, when we, when I got my, when I received my first communion, they had said to us,
(05:22):
when you receive your first communion, Jesus will come and live in your heart.
I believed it.
I didn't know about making a confession or anything like that, but I believed it.
And I believe at that time in a seven year old way, I did receive the Holy Spirit.
And then, I mean, you know, Jesus come live in my heart.
And then when we were in sixth grade, we received the sacrament of confirmation.
(05:48):
That's where they told us when you get confirmed, the Holy Spirit come, comes and lives inside you and you can become ambassadors for Christ.
I loved that idea and I thought I could tell everybody about the Lord and that kind of thing.
So the foundation was there.
It was great.
Yeah.
So even though you had that rich faith, you went through your communion, your confirmation, something in you knew there was more.
(06:13):
You really couldn't put your finger on it, but share about that realization.
And when you made actually the decision to make Jesus your Lord.
So probably around high school time and around that time, the Catholic charismatic movement was beginning to really take root.
And we had a prayer group in our high school that had this prayer group.
(06:38):
And they told us about receiving Jesus and that kind of thing.
And I just was like, this is what I want.
This is what I want.
And I remember praying and asking Jesus into my life, into my heart and I wanted everything that the Bible says that we can have.
I wanted it.
(06:59):
And I eventually think I got most of it.
Yeah.
If not all of it.
And there was a particular nun you told me a story about that really made an impact on you.
So when I was a young girl, I was in this prayer group and it was the math teacher, the principal who was a priest.
And it was kind of a handpicked group.
But we would meet every Monday or Monday night or I don't remember Monday night, Wednesday night, whatever.
(07:24):
And we would go and pray.
We would talk about the Lord.
And then we would be assigned and I put that in quotes to do acts of mercy.
And for whatever reason, I pretty much always chose to go to the nursing home and I went with one of the nuns.
We would go regularly maybe about once a month or so.
(07:45):
And I would I did a lot of observing.
But I remember one time where there was this older woman.
She probably was cognitively, cognitively impaired or something.
And she liked the sisters cross, the wooden cross.
It was really a beautiful cross.
It was a simple Franciscan style with the brown cross and the habit thing.
(08:09):
And Sister Caritas, if that was her name, she just took it off and put it on the lake.
And I was like, so mesmerized at the selflessness of it all.
At the time, I thought I would never get my neck this away.
And we stayed friends for many years and she later went on to work with the poor and met some very poor communities in Mexico.
(08:35):
And she's always lived her life in that way.
And she was a great example.
Yeah.
So once you did accept Jesus as your Lord, you got involved and your mom too.
And probably some of your other family members in the charismatic, the Catholic charismatic movement, which was actually I got saved when I was going to a Catholic church, not at the Catholic church.
(08:59):
But we also were involved in the carousel Catholic charismatic movement for a while.
So share kind of just how that helps solidify your walk with the Lord.
So with that, I had some really early teachers who really knew the Lord.
And I will honestly say there was nobody that was ever anti-Catholic.
(09:20):
And my mother used to go to women's and glow meetings back then.
And they're still around.
And at some point they asked her to be on the, I don't know, some kind of committee or something. And my mother was like, there is to be on the committee.
And I don't know if I speak good enough.
I'm like, Mom, you speak great.
Because, you know, by that point, she spoke English.
(09:41):
But that's where I got a lot even more of a deeper understanding of the Bible.
And so I loved listening to those ladies.
I just, I thought they were great.
And they were good to me.
So I got even deeper in the Lord.
And so when I was 17 is really when I made a real commitment to follow the Lord really, no matter what.
(10:06):
Yeah.
I was afraid God was going to tell me to be a missionary because I don't know.
That's what I thought.
But he did.
So you really had a really caring faith community.
And then you went away to college.
So how did you keep your, how growing in your faith when you had to kind of make it on your own?
(10:30):
Yeah.
And the college at that time had recently was a Catholic college, but it had gone independent or private.
So the religious aspect was removed.
But it was still, we had Mass every day on campus and that kind of thing.
But I was still participating in whatever was Bible studies and different things like that.
(10:57):
So I did that.
But I still wanted more and more.
I can't, it's hard to explain, but I just, I just loved the idea of dedicating my whole life to God.
Probably people in high school probably would have said, oh, she's most likely to be a nun.
But I wanted a husband and kids, you know, you can't do that.
(11:17):
And then I went on an internship my junior year.
And I think that it may have been the pinnacle of my growth time, so to speak, although we're always growing.
But my, the girl that ended up being my roommate, her mom was a former Catholic and the owner of a Christian book store.
(11:43):
And they, both my friends and her mom, poured into me like you wouldn't believe.
As a matter of fact, I even lived with the late, her name was Terry for a few months when I was getting going back to school for something.
And I lived there rent free.
Again, another example, God, Pete, help me go through my education.
(12:07):
So we would Karen and I every morning, we would in particular pick out a certain scripture.
And we would say, okay, we're going to see you at the end of the day and we're going to talk about how this scripture worked out in our lives.
And well, and behold, I promise you every single scripture that we picked ministered to us and others that whole time.
(12:32):
And nobody knew in the program knew we were, we were Christians.
I think they probably thought maybe we're just like nerdy girls, maybe I don't know.
But it was, it was just so exciting.
And Karen, who later became a lawyer and that kind of thing.
She was really into really digging deep into the word and the history and the word studies and that kind of thing.
(12:55):
So I learned from, that was a big example of really how to pursue studying God's word.
And you saw the word of God come alive in your life every day.
Every day.
And I guess part of it could maybe it's youth, but it was really there.
And the interesting thing is like, we're kind of not to that extent, but lately I've been sending her and some very few select people, different scriptures every day.
(13:23):
And not every day, but several times a week anyway.
And they'll come back and say, that scripture ministered to me.
And I'm like, oh, I feel like it's back in the day when I was 20 years old and so excited.
Well, you know, when the Bible, one of the other verses says, when you seek me, you will find me when you search me with all your heart.
And I think when we look for God in our days, when we pay attention, right, he reveals himself to us and he does work out what we need in our lives.
(13:50):
He'll show us that scripture to help us walk in a way that pleases him that day.
And he'll let us know, hey, this is what I'm going to do in your life.
So I think it is that paying attention.
You are very intentional about paying attention to what God was saying to you and looking for his hand at work in your day.
Yeah, yeah.
(14:11):
And that the paying attention part has been a theme in my life.
The Italians have a phrase, Atenzione.
And another phrase that basically means the same thing.
And so my mom used to say that.
And then, you know, like when I was going to school, she'd be like, pay attention to your teachers, listen to your teachers, do what they say.
(14:31):
That kind of thing.
Yeah.
So you mentioned you graduated from college and then God opened a door for you to go to DC, a place you had always dreamed about going.
But that's where God started changing your desires and directions.
So tell us a little bit about what got you to DC and your time there, what God did there.
(14:51):
So I attended a post-Baccalaureate certificate program to become a paralegal.
And I chose the generalist track.
And so this school, there were two big schools that people went to to do that.
One was in DC and one was in Long Island and the one in Long Island fit my finances better than the DC one.
(15:17):
So that's why I went there.
Otherwise, I would have gone to the DC one.
So I went and, you know, completed the program.
And what the school did was you were supposed to give them the name of 100 law firms that you wanted them to send resumes to.
And you do your own resume.
I thought, 100 resumes at the time.
(15:40):
I was like, but I gave them 100 names and they said, you might not even get any interviews.
Well, I got one interview and another comment that we don't have any positions,
but I commend your initiative.
This was a multinational law firm.
(16:01):
Any attorney will know the name of this firm.
And there I was, the only paralegal in the DC office.
Why I got that job.
All I can say was the Lord, because I didn't have any contacts.
I didn't know people in that realm other than maybe like my hometown, but I can have a small town.
(16:21):
They wouldn't have known it.
So that's how that came about.
Really was the Lord that opened that door because nothing is no other reason you would have gotten that job.
No other reason whatsoever.
And it was an amazing job.
It was wonderful.
I was after five years.
We had very high visible people in the law firm.
(16:44):
One of them was a former congressman who's passed away and he gave me.
Twice he gave us personal tours of the of the Congress and my mom came the second time and he just was like, oh, this is, you know, tip on meals chair.
I got to sit in his chair and stuff like that.
And so yeah, it was great.
(17:04):
And I learned so much and living in DC could be overwhelming, but you connected with a community there that I did.
I did the friends that I made was actually on the bus.
I heard these two ladies talking about the Lord.
They were sitting in front of me or behind me.
I don't remember now.
I was just going to ask them.
(17:26):
I said, ma'am, do you know of a good church now thinking about it?
I'm like, you know, they could have said anything and I wouldn't have known the difference.
And they told me the name of this church and it was the Christ Church Christ Church.
I think they've changed their name, but it was on Massachusetts Avenue.
And I went there and I remember walking in there and there were these, I guess they were elders.
(17:52):
And they were like, hello.
I was like, hello.
And I said, there was somebody on the bus telling me that this was a good church and and they really, really were.
And I, there was a small group of us that were unofficial singles in a group.
We made our own group, but we didn't call it that.
And it was nice to be around professionals who had a love for the Lord and didn't buy into a lot of things that the world say is important.
(18:23):
So that was really neat.
And in DC, you can hear a whole lot of different things, can't you?
And being grounded in a good fellowship was critical.
It was critical.
And we would meet once a week and whatever night it was, and we would pray for each other and pray for our jobs.
I mean, and everyone had very, very great professional jobs for our level of education at the time.
(18:48):
So, you know, some were working it and well, just all these different agencies and different things like that.
So it was, it was great.
And a lot of them were former Catholics and a friend of mine, I remember he was telling his mom that he was born again and the mother was upset.
(19:09):
And, and he said, the mom, don't be upset.
It was the Catholic Church that gave me the foundation to accept Jesus on a different, deeper level.
And, and that was kind of cool.
Yeah, it's like there were other people that really understood.
Yeah. Yeah.
And, and during that time, you had the opportunity to go to Israel, which is an amazing story.
(19:35):
Tell us about that story.
Here, and what's even more amazing was I didn't technically have enough leave time, but I had a roommate who was amazing person.
And she was organizing trip to Israel and this kind of thing.
Now she does a lot of great things in that whole world.
(19:55):
But I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave my boss and, you know, I told my boss and he told me go.
He says, you're never gonna get this opportunity.
So I went, it was wonderful.
And the group, and it was for the Feast of Tabernacles during the Feast of Tabernacles.
And the whole point was to support Israel and support the Jewish people.
(20:16):
You know, we did, we did all the things.
We did, went to Yad Vashem, we went to the garden tomb, all of that stuff, Mount Carmel, everything, the whole Chneel deal.
And when I went there, I actually got baptized in the Jordan,
which I don't think I would have done in the U.S.
because I felt like I didn't want to offend any of my former teachers, but I'm like, I'm in Israel.
(20:43):
It's got to be okay to be baptized in the Jordan.
And the group that I was with, they were, I think they were Lutherans, evangelical Lutherans and this couple pastors.
And so they were really nice with the people.
Loved that trip.
It was life changing, life changing.
And God spoke to you there.
(21:03):
That's right.
So I was overlooking the, where Jesus did the Sermon on the Mount, the attitudes, which is interesting because I took a voice speech class at my college and one of my final speeches was the Beatitudes.
And this little nun came up to me and there's a content there and everything.
(21:26):
She was Italian and she spoke to me in Italian, she figured out that I know understood Italian, but she told me she kind of kind of kind of got close to me and she says,
listen to the Lord, he's trying to tell you something here.
And I was like, yes, I was like eating it up.
Of course, I love the nuns because, you know, there are authority figures to me that I care about.
(21:49):
And I wrote to her a couple of times, but I remember when I wrote to her after a few years,
she says, yes, I remember a young woman there and I'm wondering how she was.
I was hoping to see her at her comment because she's back in Rome, but I was living in Italy this a few years ago, but COVID had us all in lockdown.
So I never, I never did get to see her in person.
(22:13):
Yes, I loved him.
Israel was great.
So when you got back from Israel, you started thinking about a future or maybe you were thinking about it before.
But the Lord kind of directed you in a different way than being a congresswoman or an attorney.
And what kind of opened that door for you?
What happened was a number of attorneys would come into my office.
(22:37):
I had my own office, which was a big deal.
Have an office.
It was not a window office.
That was an office.
I mean, the window office is, you know, and they would kind of close the door and they would tell me their problems.
And I was, I was not as outgoing then as I am now.
So I, you know, probably looks like, you know, more of a listening ear and I would be listening.
(22:58):
And most of the time it was about their conflicts, either with their, mostly about with their secretaries.
And I kept thinking to myself, okay, I don't think the problem is you.
I don't even think the problem is the secretary.
I think the problem is, is that one or one or both of you are mismatched in your careers.
(23:20):
You know, maybe, you know, I don't know, you know, like maybe you're more detailed, right?
And they're not.
And so I would go home and talk to my roommate who she's very, she was in the journey and she'd be like, you know, you can do either.
You can either go to law school or you can be a counselor.
You can get a master's in counseling.
I was like thinking about it.
(23:41):
I'm thinking about it.
And to be honest, I chose the counseling program because it fit into my budget again.
I couldn't justify taking out such a huge law loan, law loan for law school and having to pay it back.
And besides, I like the subject.
So I went to Regent University.
(24:03):
Yeah.
How did you get, how did God direct you to Regent because that was a fledgling CBNU at the time?
That's right.
It was CBNU.
My mom would watch 700.
And she loved the pet carrapazón.
And she would send her little, you know, $10 jack to Pat.
(24:23):
And I actually, I was in the hospital when I was a senior in high school.
I was sick and I was watching TV and I would watch Pat on the show and I thought, that guy's really smart.
And they have a school.
They don't go to school there and I thought, oh, that can never happen.
That can never happen.
So that had been kind of set in my head like a few years earlier.
(24:45):
And then with the help of my old roommate, she, she'd be home.
She's very, you know, she was like directing me.
She was like, did you, did you, why?
Yeah, did you, why?
Yeah.
And we finally applied.
And I was like, oh, they're not going to accept me.
I don't know what I know.
And they did.
And there I was.
And I really enjoyed the program.
(25:06):
I mean, to me, it was like, I was, it was also a guilty pleasure because it was so easy.
I was like, well, it doesn't take, you know, it was just like, but, you know, I, you know, God gave me the grace for it.
So yeah.
And he provided for you as well because you were able to step right into a job.
I was.
And one of the attorneys, one of the associates in DC is like, oh, you're going to Virginia Beach.
(25:29):
I know a lot of lawyers there.
And he gave me a bunch of names to contact.
And I ended up getting a job with one of the bigger law firms in Norfolk.
It's one of the older established firm.
And I got a job.
And so while my friends were making, I was making double what many of my friends were making.
So that really was a blessing.
(25:52):
And the law firm was very accommodating to my schedule and when I need to change it and that kind of thing.
Yeah.
So while you were at grad school, this was a complete departure from anything you
had done in the past.
And what did God do in you while you were there?
Because he was preparing you to impact others.
(26:12):
Yeah.
So I, I realized I didn't want to get a license, a professional therapist license.
I thought I would, I remember my, one of my professors saying to me, you know, they do these reviews
and that kind of thing.
And she said, you know, I think you're a little bit too task oriented to,
(26:32):
she probably said it nicer than that.
But I'm not sure that getting a life, being a licensed therapist would be your thing.
And I remember one of the classes that we had, I had, well, I'm sorry.
What it was is my final project ended up being a project where I designed a workshop for women reentering the workplace.
(26:57):
And of course, as the technical part of it, you know, the statistics and all that kind of thing.
But the thing that I loved was designing that, that workshop.
And I can honestly say that workshop was the basis for the next phase, literally my professional life.
(27:17):
And I worked for a federally funded agency and we would go into low income neighborhoods.
And, you know, each of us had a different city that we tackled.
Most of our clients, the way the grant was written was directed toward low income adults.
But we didn't, we, we saw everyone.
So one minute I can be going into an area that my coworkers are like,
(27:42):
be careful when you're there, that kind of thing, to retiring naval officers talking about their thing of leaving.
And I loved the idea that I knew all the basics with counseling,
because sometimes I would bring up something and be like, you know, maybe you need to explore this a little bit more.
Maybe you need a little bit of medication, maybe a doctor can help you, whatever.
(28:03):
So I could direct them and, and I would be done with them in about six sessions, six or less.
And I did financial aid and fill out the forms and all that stuff.
So which I never thought I would fill out financial aid forms.
But when I was in college, I was selected by the college to be a representative on Capitol Hill for financial aid increases to private university, the colleges.
(28:28):
So even then God was preparing.
And I, I enjoyed that job.
It could be a little, you know, stressful sometimes, but overall I loved it.
And then you really were helping people find their niche.
Yeah, yeah, we did interest testing at, you know, you get interested all the different tests that are out there to help you find that.
(28:52):
And I, and I really liked that.
And some people, you know, they would leave.
Yeah, that's, that's it.
I knew that.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm like, great, this confirms what you want.
Or they could have thought of that because there would be like some jobs that would come up as a match, like funeral director.
I remember that would come up and people would get kind of upset about it.
(29:13):
And I said, no, no, no, you don't need to be upset.
You just need to look at what their basic duties are.
It's really a social job.
It's a compassionate job.
You have to have, you have to pay attention to detail, getting an event off the ground.
And they're like, oh, I never thought of it that way.
And so that was really nice.
Yeah.
And so while you were pursuing what God had called you to do, God was orchestrating things behind the scenes.
(29:39):
To fulfill the desires of your heart.
Share about how you met and got married.
There were about four Regent CBN you guys that took me under their wing.
And they just kind of helped me along and pushing me out there like, okay, you've got to make it known that you're available.
I'm like, I don't know what to do.
Because I know how to be friends, but you know, we've got, you know, with people and that kind of thing.
(30:03):
And so I met Tom at a friend of mine was having, she called me up kind of in a panic, kind of not really a real panic, but just, she says, Paula, we're having a party and it's all guys and we need at least one more female.
(30:25):
And I was like, okay, I'm coming.
And I was proud of myself because it was a Saturday night and I didn't, I felt like I had arrived. I didn't need to be out partying, whatever.
And so I went to the place.
It was an apartment place and Tom answered the door, but it wasn't his place.
It was the girl's place.
And he looked at me.
(30:46):
And again, here, here comes the pay attention part.
The instant he opened his door, the door, he said, you're the Sicilian fish.
And I'll explain what that means in a second, but I knew that God was telling me, pay attention.
And I pretty much knew from that moment on, things were going to be very different.
(31:09):
And so what happened was he told me later, oh yeah.
So there was a progressive dinner that we had had a few weeks earlier.
From your church, yeah.
Yeah, from our single scripted church.
And I was one of the hostesses.
But my, my, you know, my plate was filled, so to speak.
So my, all the slots were taken.
(31:30):
And he said, yeah, yeah, I guess I got there too late.
I didn't get to go.
I had to go to somebody else's house.
And so that's how that started.
But from this, like I said, pretty much from the instant I met Tom, I knew this was serious.
I didn't.
And the thing that really attracted me to him was I never had to guess
(31:54):
where his intentions were.
I knew right off a lot of times, I was like, that game, he played, does he like me?
Does he not like me?
That kind of thing.
No, Tom, and it wasn't like he was like, oh, you're the one for me.
I just, his actions were very deliberate.
But he's a science, the science kind of guy.
So everything's going to be, you know, very laid out, phase one, phase two.
(32:20):
And I think I, you know, was, I'm sure in his mind, he was like, okay, now I'm this age
and so I must get married in the next two to three years.
So you went about your relationship very intentionally.
Yes.
And not frivolously.
(32:40):
And there were a few things that really impressed you about Tom.
Share, you know, as, as you were paying attention to what God was showing, you know, share what a couple of those were.
So I'm, if you meet the two of us, I'm the talker and he's the steady rock.
I guess.
(33:00):
And so like the first time he came to my apartment, he brought these two huge textbooks on compound interest.
Do I have interest in compound interest?
No interest.
But because I was infatuated with this guy, I was willing to listen to him.
And actually the way he explained it made a lot of sense.
(33:21):
And I was like, well, why did I start doing that years ago?
And he was very planned and organized, but not rigid.
I mean, he can change his mind and that kind of thing otherwise, because that's not a good thing.
So it was that.
And he, he, and the other thing is for me, it was really important that whoever I married,
(33:44):
he had to love my grandmother.
Although I love my mother.
I mean, I love my mother.
I loved her dearly.
But if you couldn't connect with Nonna, you couldn't connect.
And my grandmother spoke no English.
She came to America.
I think she was like 59 or something like that.
So she didn't really learn the language and they hit it off immediately.
(34:09):
But my grandmother could do that.
She could be like, you know, she pointed, she smiled and she show you like, so they had their way of talking so much so that when it came to
not when we got engaged, she actually bought his engagement ring.
And of course I got the wedding in form.
And my grandmother lived on SSI benefits.
(34:30):
That's, that's not a lot of money, but she was able to scrape down and help because that's she wanted to show her love.
And at first I wasn't going to let her do it.
And then I was like, I need to let her do it because this is how she wants to show her respect and love for him.
Yeah.
So your dream as you were pursuing God, what God had for you, you know, your, your dream and you got married, but your, your dreams of a
(34:56):
husband and a family, they seem to be coming right into line.
But things weren't quite so easy.
You had a few hard years.
Tell us what happened.
I had a series of miscarriages and probably an average of one per year.
I got pregnant right away.
Getting pregnant wasn't my problem.
(35:18):
My problem was staying pregnant.
And it was a very, it was a difficult night.
After the fourth miscarriage, I told Tom, I said, Tom, you've got to get me to see the pastor at the church.
And I just felt like I needed that grounding.
I mean, people were praying for us all along, but I went and we had an interim pastor and he was very, very kind.
(35:43):
And he, and he said, I can't tell you why this is happening.
But all I do know is that maybe if you knew, you couldn't handle it.
And for me, that really brought me a lot of, I don't know, not closure, but peace.
I thought, okay, okay, I can deal with that, that maybe I don't understand.
(36:07):
And so then we started the adoption process.
And that, I know the South is stressful and they tell you, okay, you can take many years, blah, blah, blah.
And it didn't take as long as they said it would.
We were originally going for an international adoption,
(36:28):
which you kind of guaranteed.
Child, so to speak.
And an infant, you really wanted an infant, didn't you?
I did really.
And so, so you were going for an international adoption.
(36:48):
And we, yeah, so we were doing that.
And they do this thing where you have to send your stuff off to the state to be vetted.
And they're doing a background check.
And I thought, oh, you know, maybe I've read too many, you know, Mr. Novels.
Maybe this will be the time that I find out that my husband has a secret past.
(37:11):
He did not have a secret past.
He does not have a secret past.
It was me.
And it had to do with my first name.
So because I kind of always went by a different form of my name.
And, oh, and all I had to do was talk to the lawyer and have it fixed.
(37:32):
And we got it fixed.
But then.
So your adoption was put on hold.
It was put on hold.
Because of basically administrative differences.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I had to call a lawyer and I'm like, okay, what do I do?
And blah, blah, blah.
And we took care of it.
And in the meantime, the director of the agency called and said, we are having a very unusual problem.
(37:53):
We suddenly have a number of infant domestic children, babies that are either born or going to be born.
Would you be willing to switch from international to into the domestic?
And I was like, yeah, because it was cheaper and it just was whatever.
(38:14):
So we did.
And easier, quicker.
Much quicker.
And, lo and behold, our child was born.
I was got the call in my office.
I had later moved on from the federally funded agency and I was working at the law school and I was doing all the kids of a student's resumes.
This is basically what I was doing before just just for law students.
(38:36):
And I remember the ladies.
Mrs. Mullen, your daughter has been born.
I was like, oh, we knew that the baby was going to be born any day, but you know, it still was kind of exciting.
And within eight hours, we met our child and I was holding her and rocking her and they put her in a little special nursery and we had privacy.
(39:01):
And she was there for two days.
You know, she was released two days later and we took her straight home.
Well, we took her straight to church and we put her at the altar and we prayed for her and we dedicated her right there.
And it wasn't because I thought this is a magical thing.
I wanted symbolically her first act to be that's what that's what her parents took her.
(39:22):
Yeah, being the mother of an adopted child, having an adopted child.
How have you communicated that with her and how has she received it?
I know, you know, it can be a challenge.
But what was the process that you and Tom decided to take?
There was an elder in our church and I remember he said to us, you talk to her even though she's just an infant and tell her how much you love her and that you adopted her.
(39:46):
So she she knew all that she really did.
So one time another friend of ours adopted the baby from overseas.
We were literally in the Dollar Tree near my house getting her a balloon, the new baby.
And I said, oh, we're going to go see the baby that was adopted.
And she screams out, she was adopted like me.
(40:09):
And I said, yes, yes.
And she was all excited.
Yeah, she had some understanding that she had adopted.
Yes, yeah.
So then she was a very healthy little girl.
And one day she was in kindergarten, I think it was.
And the teacher called and said, you've got to come and get her.
She's not she's not feeling well.
(40:29):
It was really unusual for her not to feel it.
So I went and got her and we were watching Anna Green Gables and she said there's a part in there where they talk about sending her back because, you know, and was so rambunctious and whatever.
And she just she's kind of like, I could tell that something was going in her little, you know, 60 year old brain.
(40:52):
It's just money.
You're going to send me back.
I said, no, I said, we would never do that.
God adopted us.
We adopted you.
And this is the you know, this is how it is.
And she said, who could I was really worried about that.
And and she doesn't she doesn't really talk about it a whole lot when she does.
(41:16):
It's more or less.
No, I don't really have much desire and that kind of things.
And we've talked about some maybe potential.
I don't know, maybe some health concerns or whatever.
I think when the time comes, she will do that and she has our blessing to do that.
Yeah.
(41:36):
So she really was settled.
I mean, she knew foundationally that you had adopted her for life.
Right.
And that settled her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you had been a career woman for many years and really enjoyed it up to that point.
So, you know, you had a new baby now.
What was the transition like away from work because you did choose?
I believe work.
(41:56):
I did choose to work.
So I had a project that I was working on and the project was going to finish in a few months.
And I just was really, I'm really big about keep keeping my word to a much as possible.
So I found a lady, a wonderful woman to watch it for about six weeks, but I hated being away from her.
(42:17):
I couldn't handle it.
And even though she was with somebody we loved.
So I at the end of that project, so I was looking for a nanny, but nobody bit.
Nobody was answering and nobody was applying.
So Tom and I, we felt that that was really, really just me to quit and stay.
(42:38):
No.
And so I did literally like two, three days later, I'm getting tons of applicants, but I was like,
you know what?
I know I'm getting applicants, but this was right.
So in some ways the adjustment was really painless, smooth, all that.
I loved what I was doing.
(42:59):
I didn't feel, I mean, because I had been a career counselor, so I had spoken to many women who had this thing.
Like it's my turn now to be a career, that kind of thing.
And I was like, well, it's really okay.
The only thing that really bothered me was if I was going to be able to have some friends that were a little bit older like me.
(43:23):
It's not that I have anything against the young people, but it's a different type of mothering motherhood.
So I joined the mom's group at our church and.
Because you were a little older when you finally did adopt.
We did.
We did.
That was in my early 40s and there we were.
But my mother and my both grandmothers had babies well into their late 40s.
(43:50):
So I was kind of using them like, okay, they did it.
I can do it.
So yeah, so that's what we did.
And then this particular mom's group had a lot of moms similar to me.
You know, they were older.
Some of them had gone to school with and some of them were adopted moms.
Some of them biological moms and the next thing I know I'm coordinating the mom's group at the church and and I really enjoyed it.
(44:16):
I really do.
Actually, mom's was at the time it was a great organization.
I used to tell the girls, you know, if you really want to go back to work, you should consider being on, you know, either coordinator or small group leader because they do a lot of really good training that you could put into the workforce.
Later on, I didn't even did that.
(44:37):
But so we loved it.
And, you know, I was at church a lot because I attacked it like a job and Catherine always come with me so much so that she felt like she owned the church.
She walked around.
You know, she knew what the offices were.
So one other neat thing that that God did was allow you to live abroad, which would never have happened if you had been if you had kept working.
(45:07):
No, it wouldn't have happened.
And so when I was in college, I wanted to go to France or Italy and to do a year abroad because that's what you do in classic.
You know, but when you're in that kind of an, you know, you go to a classical school and that's what you do. You learn Latin and all this stuff.
(45:29):
But it just wasn't in the box that we just we couldn't have afforded it.
And I was okay with that.
And when I was a little, little girl, I used to my mom and I used to role play and I would always be Paula from somewhere else.
Paula from California, but I was mostly Paula from Washington, DC, and my mother would act surprised that we come home.
(45:52):
And so ever since I married Tom, he's always been he's always looking to advance his career.
That kind of thing.
One was in Australia, one independent order.
And then one day he said, oh, I'm going to apply this is Italy job.
My father.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't really listening to see listening. I wasn't paying attention.
(46:13):
Yeah.
And I thought, okay, yeah, whatever. Well, literally like a year and a half later, two years, whatever it was, he says to me, comes in the room and he looked a little, I thought maybe something happened with his family and something had an accident.
He goes, they just are offering me this job in Italy.
We have like 48 hours to respond to the first phase of the application or whatever it was.
(46:38):
I was like, what? I said, nothing. You haven't gotten any good. No, no.
And so he called his dad and parents.
And so we all decided, go ahead and accept it.
So we accepted it.
And then, you know, you have to go through a few more different things, but every step of the way, he would be progressing.
(46:59):
So I guess it gave me a little bit of time, a tiny bit of time to get used to the idea.
And so we accepted and you know, you give them a three year commitment and then they reevaluate.
And so we accepted.
We moved there in June of 2019.
January 2020, COVID hits hard, really hard.
(47:25):
And Italy basically locked down for the next few months.
And in the meantime, our daughter had to have two separate knee surgeries to reconstruct her knees from.
They think it's a genetic thing that causes them to dislocate.
And the first time we had to wait a while because we got to wait for the hospitals to open up and have whatever.
(47:48):
And so we went for the first surgery.
So you actually came back to the States for the surgery, didn't you?
So it took a while for you to be able to travel.
It did. And Tom had to go up the chain to get permission and all this stuff.
But you know, the timing was right and then it opened up and so we came back the first time and we stayed with friends and they brought a bed downstairs.
(48:12):
So Catherine didn't have to go upstairs and that, you know, that surgery takes about four to six months to complete.
That surgery went really well.
She basically exceeded all the guidance.
So went back to Italy.
Maybe a couple of weeks after she got back, the other knee goes.
(48:34):
And we knew that this was a possibility, but we really, I mean, the way that we didn't realize it would be so.
So we thought it would be later, like in her life.
But and I was like, oh my God, what should I do?
And I called my friend and she said, the one friend that I stayed with and she's just don't worry about it.
Come back, come back.
We'll go through this together.
(48:55):
And so Thomas in Italy, you know, doing his work, you know, all that kind of thing.
And we are and then the second surgery was very difficult.
It was very different than the first surgery.
And I could tell from when I went in the room, you know, in the recovery room with the atmosphere to change.
And she says, mom, this is so different.
(49:16):
This is not like the first one.
And so she finally was making some headway with it.
Well, and behold, she's in a, she's a passenger in a car and their hit head on.
She was in a very terrible, very terrible car accident.
Someone said that there was no earthly explanation how the people came out alive.
(49:42):
But what it did was it really impacted that bad knee.
And she's still in therapy two years later, physical therapy for the knee and now a little bit of the hip.
They said, you know, there's a terrible there, but it is what it is.
As they say.
Yeah.
So, you know, Tom was in Italy, you were back in the States staying with friends, but you really saw God provide all along the way.
(50:07):
I mean, first of all, being able to stay with a friend who let you stay for months, but share some of the other ways that God made provisions.
So after the second surgery, maybe about two months later, a realtor called and said,
you know, your tenant, because we were renting our house out, your tenant wants to, wants to know if he can be, they can be released from the lease.
(50:32):
And I was like, yeah, because by that time with the timing, Tom's time in Italy was coming to an end.
And so that's what we did.
And the guy, you know, I think he was a newlywed and they wanted to buy a house.
So it was a win-win for everybody.
And then I had an empty house.
So because your stuff was still in Italy.
(50:54):
It was in Italy and in storage.
Yeah.
You know, so and I couldn't get to storage and get to the story.
So we, I went to Ikea.
God was so good.
I bought some beds, two beds, table, four chairs, you know, Ikea furniture and people from the church, some guys from the church put it all together.
(51:19):
They didn't charge me anything.
And the one, one of the guys had just that week before put in a whole Ikea, excuse me, whole Ikea kitchen in his house.
So he knew exactly and they had the tools and everything.
And I have to say it was really nice.
(51:39):
I mean, it was, it was great.
And yeah, God just came through and, and we were near her doctor so we could get the care she needed.
And, and then I, yeah.
And it was a tough road, but through it all you've, you've really, you've grown in the Lord.
You've seen Catherine grow in the Lord.
Sometimes that can really shake faith.
(52:03):
Yeah.
Can it, but the Lord has used it.
The pain.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To bring you all closer to him.
Yeah.
And you know, the Bible, God doesn't promise us everything's going to be smooth.
You will have troubles.
And, and, and that's, and that's what it is.
(52:23):
And that's, I mean, there was a, you know, that's, that's what sees us through.
And I think, you know, having a good foundation based on truth because we all probably have,
you know, life experiences that shape us that are not truth.
(52:44):
And if you know the truth, it will set you free as Jesus.
Yeah.
And so, yeah.
So it's been a long road and, and would I do it again?
I mean, I don't know that I want to do some of the, some of the things again, but yeah, I would.
Yeah.
Because.
So how have, you know, in these times, what would have been some of those foundational
(53:10):
aspects of your faith that have kept you through some of those trials?
So when, when we were back to the internship days, one of the scriptures at that time that
really minister to me and my roommate would always say, I can do all things.
Surprise, just right.
And sometimes, you know, we say that, you know, it's kind of a rote kind of thing because
(53:33):
it's one of the people we call quote that a lot, but we can do hard things.
We don't want to do hard things because who does?
And if you keep putting your faith in God and somehow if you can separate what you can
understand from what you do understand that God is there, you can do this.
(53:57):
Yeah.
You can do this.
So as we close, Paula, would you share about a woman of the Bible whose story has inspired
or encouraged or taught you something?
There are many wonderful women in the Bible.
And years ago, I read this book, All the Women in the Bible, Of the Bible or whatever it was
called.
I think it also was Dr. Lockyer.
And I love that book.
I read it like three times.
(54:19):
You know, Deborah was a judge, Esther stayed the nation, you know, like, I don't want to
save any nations.
But out of them all, he started the whole thing.
But Mary, I think sometimes, sometimes people don't think about her enough.
(54:41):
She was an example of motherhood, adopted mother.
I mean, her husband was Jesus Foster father and her willingness to say yes and follow
him.
And, you know, when Jesus wanted to turn the water into wine, she says, do whatever he
tells you.
I mean, that's a pretty big thing to, you know, entrust someone with, especially if you're
(55:05):
a mom, you want to be in charge.
And she was a young girl.
You know, 14, 15, whatever she was.
And I think she's, I think women should learn from her, have that spirit of yes.
And, you know, why, you know, we don't know why that chose her.
I mean, I mean, there are lots of reasons why, but you may not really know that, but
(55:28):
just know that you're in the place where you're supposed to be.
And Mary is a wonderful example to mothers, to women, to men, too.
She was great.
Yeah.
I mean, she didn't know all the answers when God said, you're going to get pregnant, but
she said, be it unto me according to your will.
(55:48):
Right.
And that's a, that's a scary, that's a scary prayer or conversation to have.
Lord, be it unto me according to your will.
But when we know that God is a good God, we can say that with confidence, knowing that
everything's going to be okay.
Yeah.
In the world, not so much, but when you're in God, then yes.
(56:11):
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, Solomon was arguably the wisest man who ever lived, apart from Jesus, of
course.
And he repeatedly tells readers in the Proverbs to pay attention to the Lord.
Proverbs 22, 17 through 19, similar to the verse I started with at the beginning, reads
(56:31):
in the NIV, pay attention and turn your ear to the sayings of the wise.
Apply your heart to what I teach for it's pleasing when you keep them in your heart
and have them all ready on your lips so that your trust may be in the Lord.
You know, throughout Paul's life, she's paid attention to when God has spoken to her and
(56:53):
she has placed her trust in him wholeheartedly through the ups and downs, good times and
difficult ones.
And God has proven he is faithful.
God wants to lead you and guide you to, dear listener.
So pay attention to what he's saying to you, follow after him, and you will find he's
always faithful to you as well.
Paula, would you take a moment and pray for our listeners?
(57:16):
Yes, I'm glad to.
Father God, we come before you and Lord, wherever your person is that you want to reach, let
them stop right now and pay attention.
You pay attention that you want their heart.
You want everything from them.
And all you have to do is to ask Jesus into your life and say, I'm sorry for the sins
(57:37):
I've committed.
Help me, Jesus.
Help me.
Help me through this journey called life.
Father, I ask that you bless everyone that hears this, whether it's today, tomorrow,
15 years from now.
Let your Holy Spirit just rest on the ear of the good listener.
I would be grateful and thank you, Jesus.
Amen.
(57:57):
Well, thank you for tuning in.
Check out our show notes at hergodstory.org for scriptures and other information we talked
about.
And remember to get your free six-week devotional and a women of the Bible there.
We'd also love to pray with you on our 24-7 prayer and text line.
So give us a call or text anytime at 855-459-CARE or email us at prayer at somebodycares.org.
(58:21):
And now, dear friends, I'll read Mark 4, 24, and 25 and speak a blessing over you from
them.
Jesus said, Pay close attention to what you hear.
The closer you listen, the more understanding you will be given, and you will receive even
more.
To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given.
(58:42):
May you have ears to hear and a heart to understand all the Lord your God is saying to you.
Her God Story is a ministry of Somebody Cares America and International.
To find out more about or support the ministry, go to somebodycares.org.
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