Episode 23 | Hillmantok University

This conversation delves into the complexities of therapy, race, and community dynamics, particularly focusing on the experiences of individuals navigating these spaces. The speakers discuss the challenges of finding appropriate therapeutic support, the importance of community in healing, and the role of white women in social movements. They also explore military dynamics, the impact of social media on awareness, and the necessity of acknowledging trauma while navigating conversations about race and identity. In this conversation, Daniella and Rebecca explore the complexities of race, gender, and community dynamics. They discuss the importance of understanding individual experiences within groups, the role of struggle in building bonds, and the responsibilities of leadership. The conversation emphasizes the need for white individuals to listen to and learn from black voices, acknowledging the impact of whiteness on perceptions and interactions. They also touch on the significance of embracing growth and change, and the power of community in fostering connection and understanding.

Connect with Rebecca at:

The White Woman Whisperer Website

 

The White Woman Whisperer Patreon

 

The White Woman Whisperer TikTok

 

Connect with Daniella at:

You can read all about that story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Dr.

(00:00):
Barlow was a black woman, African-American studies teacher who just happened to get onTikTok and make a video for her students, her literal students.
And black people got ahold of it and said, we're all taking Dr.
Barlow's entry to African-American studies class.
And it became a trend.
And then other black people.

(00:21):
started making their own classes.
Hey, and then eventually she took it down because she was like, guys, this was for myactual students, but then put it back up.
it's like this amazing moment of community for people.
And you know who originated it.
I know it's Dr.
Barlow.
We know how to credit each other without MLA formats.
And then, you know, people.

(00:44):
I talk about this a lot on my Patreon, but like there's this phrase you can always use tostart the end or to
twist the plot and go, then the Europeans came.
You can be saying anything and then say, and then the Europeans came.
And found this whole, what we call Hillman talk.
They don't even know why it's called Hillman talk.

(01:11):
Cause you think you're just going to like, find a therapist.
But then you talk to your therapist and they're like, so what happened at your last job?
And you're like white people.
And you, you know, you got to hope that the white lady on the other end isn't going to gowhat?
And, and freak out.
Right?
I mean, that's not exactly how my first therapy session went, but it's pretty close.

(01:32):
And even like, do I choose that?
I had this whole thing about black therapists, white therapists.
nothing means anything, right?
Just because it's a black woman doesn't mean, and if anything, then I have that elementthat I don't think people think about.
Like I'm talking to this black woman, is her hair straight?
Is she gonna feel uncomfortable about me talking about my natural hair journey at work andwhat it means and that another black lady at work was like, I mean, you knew when you wore

(02:00):
your hair like that that people were gonna do?
No, I didn't, but the black community that has more racialized trauma with white people,
did know that, which makes sense.
so like, nothing is as simple as like, go to therapy.
It's for anybody, but I just think especially institutionalized.

(02:22):
This is very true for the cult survivor community, you know, like I've had therapists justlisten to my story and cry and then like hug me and tell me I'm a great American.
And that's not, yeah, yeah.
But like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But like, that's not helpful, right?

(02:42):
And.
You know, I got fortunate because I had some good emergency therapy from the military.
So at least they know how to deal with trauma.
And then I had to find a therapist that grew up in my cult and had done the work and justpay her out of pocket because she is in the UK.

(03:03):
Because it was like as I was trying to write my book, you know, and really on thisdeconstruction journey.
And I just can't I can't train my therapist.
And that's another value of like the whole TikTok world was one realizing it's not justyou, like it's not just therapy or black therapist or white therapist.

(03:30):
It's like accepting trauma informed trauma informed in this direction, willing towithstand their own.
Why are you crying?
Why are you crying?
That's so
Okay, maybe my standards for therapists are too high, but how dare you?
But I mean, I had a friend who is becoming a licensed counselor.

(03:50):
And when she was asking me about trauma stuff and she was like, so what can I do?
And I was like, don't be surprised when people tell you things.
Like the amount of times I've had to try to like comfort my therapist, you know, just workon that, right?
Like work on that reaction.

(04:11):
See, that's so much of what I want white people to just hear that.
Hear that, we're not, we're talking about therapy, but we're not talking about therapy.
We're talking about everything.
Because it's being able to withstand hearing about a hard time someone else has withoutcentering yourself.
That's why we center ourselves so we don't center ourselves.
Hmm.
And another, you know, you'll you'll have a parallel for this, but an experience I had waswhen I was shopping my book, I was not I was not willing to work with a male editor,

(04:40):
because like a huge through line of uncultured is masculinity, toxic masculinity andfeminism and and just, you know, I was like, I don't have the energy to be like, No, no,
this is really sexism, right?
there.
Yeah, you already know factually that they're gonna have that sex.

(05:03):
like every woman who read this book, when the creepy uncle says the thing to my mom,sorry, Colonel, Army Colonel, every single woman in Femme is like, I hate this dude.
Right, and like dudes wouldn't pick up on that.
Like.
And that's community.
That's could be community.
That's an under, it's an understanding that doesn't need to be spoken where you just go,because you have had those experiences enough and you believe yourself in that way.

(05:34):
like,
I just don't think you can underestimate like how much that means individuals matter,right?
Like the individual therapist is what matters, not the concept of therapy, not going totherapy.
It can be, you can be powerful as the person who does not cry to show, I don't know, whatare they trying to show when they're doing that?

(05:58):
Cause I know it's, it's something, you know, cause there is that thing that I learned thatwhy we wouldn't do it's like, if you're crying now, if I care,
I should cry as a response to your crying.
I liked when I went to therapy first was that she did not respond to my tears in any kindof changed way.
It was like, okay, you're crying that we get that, but like keep talking.

(06:22):
You're not supposed to stop talking because an emotion has appeared and a postage issupposed to appear and you're supposed to withstand as the therapist to go.
not to go, no, if you don't want to talk about this, if you don't want to talk about this.
I have a lot of thoughts about trigger warnings and stuff.
Very white.

(06:42):
You know.
layer too that I'm going to add this.
We can leave it in or take it out or whatever.
Jonah and I tried to get couples counseling like last year and we did and the counselorwas great and she was a black woman, which was super exciting to me.
And it was right around the time that we started this podcast.

(07:03):
So we get to the like, well, what do you do?
Then getting to know each other.
And I was telling her about it.
And this woman.
great therapist, wonderful at her job, put me on such a pedestal for working aroundanti-racism.
And then it was like, then like, I, and I, and I pushed back, but then she was like, sowhen are you going to be on the podcast?

(07:28):
I'm sure they want to hear what you have to say.
And I'm like, I'm sure that they don't need me to do that, which is ironic because I'mdoing that now.
But, but it was like a whole nother layer of like,
seeing a white person try to do the bare minimum, I think.
And like, oh, yay, you, everybody should listen to you.

(07:51):
And I'm like, I don't need that.
I have the white ego already.
Don't, don't do that.
as much as we are exposed to it on TikTok, we have to remember that when I first started,we have to always, you know, the shock and awe to my name, to my name.
Okay.
We're starting at a level where, where black people would tell me not to do this,obviously.

(08:15):
Right.
there isn't a lot of awareness around the power of white women in this way.
I think, you know, black people have to deconstruct as well.
We, I've been deconstructed.
is what I wanted to come rant on today that I've been really kind of brewing over justlike the power of white women and the white woman voice.

(08:43):
And by the way, just this week alone, I've had many black women say to me like, no, weneed the Karen redemption arc.
Like we need to see this and.
acts all the time,
I don't know what I'm doing yet, but I think I'm gonna radicalize a brigade of 4,000anti-racist Karens and just like, I know at least, I'm thinking like, Patreon level, we

(09:08):
take the money, we dump it in the ACLU, and then we also pay black women to come educateus on things that we can do, you know?
Because, especially since the Secretary of Defense got nominated, right?
Or got confirmed.
who's a man who doesn't think women should be in the military and be in combat.

(09:30):
And I was one of the first women on these deliberate ground combat teams.
I care a lot about this.
But what they've used to keep us out for so long out of these military careers andadvancement is, nobody wants to see dead American women, right?
And like mothers.
but what they mean is like white ladies, right?

(09:52):
Nobody wants to see dead white ladies.
And I'm like, so that's a weapon for us, right?
Like if we march our brigade of 4,000 Karens on the White House, like they're not gonnacome mow us down.
They're not, nobody wants to see dead white ladies.

(10:14):
And so I'm saying,
You've seen.
call our military maneuver, I'm gonna call it just the tip, because the white ladies arejust gonna be the tip of the spear and then behind us is gonna be everyone else.
Right, you're like, what you see of the iceberg, but what really holds you up is communityand understanding what is going on beneath the surface.

(10:36):
We are not the leaders of this movement.
We're just literally the sharp edge.
And like white ladies, white ladies, we own more money.
We have more financial spending.
It's in the trillions.
It's more than men and it's more than these billionaires.
So like, Rebecca, I didn't want to start a revolution.

(11:00):
Like I just wanted to be in my house with my child.
I know.
you think this is what I want to.
know Martin Luther King did not want to get arrested 29 times.
It's not, it's not glamour, even though white history makes it seem as such.
No, it's work.

(11:20):
And then when we talk about the difference and I have someone looking at it this week, I'mgoing over my chapter.
I'm really excited about it.
We're talking about responsibilities of power and not the rights of those in power.
It's because we've been glamorizing and using movies and TV to understand what people do.
And those that were made up by white men, what they think this is what everybody would doif...

(11:41):
A dude said this.
I saw a video that you did that we talk about this, about the military being a bunch ofpeople, right?
Not something to be weaponized, but I think we are misunderstanding because we watch thesewhite man movies or there was this scene and I may have even discussed it on this podcast
before, but it doesn't matter.
There's a scene in Game of Thrones that was a sound people were using.

(12:03):
And it's when Cersei goes and she's talking to this guy and he says, you know, knowledgeis power.
And then she says,
Seize him and these four dudes come and grab him up and she says, cut his throat.
Nevermind, let him go.
Power is power, okay?
And no, actually, I get it.

(12:23):
I get what she was saying, but what if those guys didn't just jump into action when shesaid so and they were like, huh?
Why, seize him?
Like those people aren't people in this thing.
No one considers soldiers humans when we watch movies.
yeah.
Well, and this is like, all of a sudden, this has become my full time job is likeexplaining to people that your your movies and your stereotypes, that's not how the

(12:51):
military works.
Right?
And look, it's very important.
These comparisons to Hitler, I've been making them since 2015.
It is important to notice the parallels.
But it's also really important to notice the difference.
And one of those big differences is that
both the Germans and the American armies have trained exactly the opposite of that, right?

(13:14):
We don't do top-down military.
We do push the decision to the lowest level.
Every service member in the military today has been taught that it is their job to assessthe order and choose not to follow it if it's illegal or immoral.
And by the way, 20%, women, the only reason they hit their recruiting goals this year,women.

(13:38):
You know why they don't really want us there?
Because we tend to stop the raping and the pillaging and the bad behavior.
But the good news is you can't run modern military operations without 20 % of your people.
So there's been a lot of work done since the Civil War.

(13:58):
Since the Civil War, they've been shuffling us around.
But yes, agreed about the flawed system.
And I honestly...
think that it's just more honest now, America.
I've been saying.
at least we are talking to the people, at least we're finally talking to the people whoare talking so much.

(14:21):
And I think that it all, I don't want to say it all connects because I think that'ssomething that those white guys be saying before they say something terrible.
like you can, way easier, so much more sustainable for you to build up an army of Amy'sand like go.

(14:42):
do something based on, it's not just informing people of what to do or knowledge.
It's like what moves people.
We move people.
TikTok moves people.
And like, I would rather learn that, right?
And understand what we haven't been learning from history.
We've been learning about history.

(15:04):
And I think it's fine to compare people to other people, even though they were made badpeople in the books.
But like, why were y'all learning?
I realized you were learning to memorize and to study and to spit those information backout, not to like apply to yourself, identify with, you know, it's just like identifying
ads.
But.
also why he doesn't understand our military because he studies the militaries ofdictators, right?

(15:30):
So it's like.
But like he's just a dude and he's not been given good resources and we need to humanizeinstead of romanticize These things that we're talking about like there's a human so to
humans
and did you see the Air Force DEI pushback?
So there was an announcement, right?

(15:50):
DEI discussion is all out of the military.
That still stands, I believe.
But the Air Force entry-level training decided they were getting rid of discussion ofTuskegee Airmen and women pilots in World War II.
And there was so much outcry to that that they put it back two days later.

(16:10):
So it was down for a weekend, right?
So it does matter having these conversations and pushing back.
and like building our own stuff, which brings us to the Hillman talk.
Have you seen that?
Right, I was just gonna say, like, what you put in the books only matters as much aspeople talk outside of the books.

(16:35):
Like, I don't really care what DEI, okay, I know it's important.
I'm not saying don't care how people feel about it.
I don't care if they institutionalize DEI or not into these corporations.
Like, they're plantations.
I don't care if they're, you know, say the right words.
I care more that those individuals feel that they can leave.

(16:56):
And that being true based on the other individuals around them supporting each other,which brings me to Hillman talk.
Community exists despite the system, not to spite the system.
And I think white women are trying to, and white feminism exists in group think to spitethe bad, the patriarchy, system, dah, dah.

(17:21):
Hillman talk.
Which is, okay, this is how was like Dr.
Barlow.
this is, just love black people so much.
Dr.
Barlow was a black woman, African-American studies teacher who just happened to get onTikTok and make a video for her students, her literal students.
And black people got ahold of it and said, we're all taking Dr.

(17:42):
Barlow's entry to African-American studies class.
And it became a trend.
And then other black people.
started making their own classes.
Hey, and then eventually she took it down because she was like, guys, this was for myactual students, but then put it back up.
it's like this amazing moment of community for people.
And you know who originated it.

(18:02):
I know it's Dr.
Barlow.
We know how to credit each other without MLA formats.
And then, you know, people.
I talk about this a lot on my Patreon, but like there's this phrase you can always use tostart the end or to
twist the plot and go, then the Europeans came.
You can be saying anything and then say, and then the Europeans came.

(18:27):
And found this whole, what we call Hillman talk.
They don't even know why it's called Hillman talk.
And white people, white people listeners right now, don't you dare weaponize this againstother white people listeners.
I'm gonna give you insight.
Hillman is the school from Living Single.
Sorry, in Living, wait.

(18:48):
Shh, I'm getting my black shows confused.
I'm pretty sure it's living things.
the pre-Friends era.
And they all, they all went to Hillman.
It's a fake university.
It's a black HBCU that does not exist.

(19:09):
If the community understands, we know.
And I love that language, just transits and it just permeates and everyone gets in there,right?
But then the Europeans came and they were like, Hey guys, I go here.
And this is what I think about it.
And Black people were like, shh, get out of here because you were too loud.
I think you could have been here in silence.
And then I saw some white women were crying and talking about their neurodivergence andhow upset they were that they're not allowed in Hillman.

(19:38):
talk university, even though it's an online space that they could just existing quietly.
And this is where the brigade of white women could come in and go, Hey, hey, hey guys, weshould be grateful.
We should be quiet.
We should be maintaining each other.
Don't make it on the black people in the room to shush you so that you, yourneurodivergence.

(20:05):
bringing up neurodivergence in a room of black people is this like individualistic thing.
I can't even explain because the second gives you feel like you're getting more vulnerableand coming forward and saying, no, no, no, you don't understand.
I'm trying to learn.
I'm trying to hear this is, and the more you come forward with that voice, the creepierand scarier you are to us.

(20:33):
And then we're reverting and now you're crying more.
So, so I just want people to grab each other by the door, sit in the back of the class.
Yeah.
You were, you were pushed to the back of the class for some time and it's okay.
But like all this happened in like a week on TikTok.
don't, I'm obsessed with it.
I love it.
It's like, this is history.
This is how history, real history can be transmitted.

(20:56):
And it doesn't have to be actual online courses.
can mimic them.
They're funny.
People are hilarious.
in teaching these, teaching real history and you're learning about kind of terrible stuff,kind of cool stuff.
And then people are being kicked out in these hilarious ways, by the way.
Some of these stitches are so good.
It's like a white woman like, and then they're like, okay, I campus security.

(21:20):
Please come this way, I understand.
It's just that you're disturbing the class.
Ugh, it's so much.
Wait, wait, you're muted.
I was just gonna say, I know I said this before on this show, but I took one of theclasses I took during my graduate degree was power and privilege in systems.

(21:46):
And at one point, the teacher who was a white woman did a survey and she asked us all torate whether we talked more than everyone, the average amount of everyone or less than
everyone.
And me and three other white women said,
the average amount and we were taken aside and said, actually, shh, like speak less.

(22:09):
And you know what?
It sucked, okay?
It sucked.
I off camera might have had some tears.
It sucks when you white woman all over the place and then people call you out on it.
And then you know what?
I was fine.
And then nothing happened.
I even still made an A in the class.

(22:31):
Yep.
And you learned and you have that story to tell now to share with other people so thatthey can check themselves before they do it.
That's community in a community.
We share with each other to like inform.
And I'm realizing there's a lot of like how to in the group think in the white community,this like I've done this thing and I'm going to teach you how to do this thing instead of

(22:53):
I've done this thing.
Now let me share with you about what I learned while I was there so that you don't have tonecessarily go do it too.
to get some of the lessons.
Well, my group is like, well, if I had to do it, you have to do it.
And this is how the best.
And you know what, I had a really relevant community versus group experience this weekend.

(23:17):
So it was the NFC championship.
And like, I've lived in this neighborhood for four years and it is, football.
Okay, so I've lived in this neighborhood for four years and it's a very diverseneighborhood.
However, our child goes to the school in the fancy neighborhood and like,
as much as we've tried to be parts of different groups, they still all end up being prettywhite.

(23:45):
Right, but this weekend, we're at the bar in our front yard, because we live in one ofthese like planned communities, right?
So it's just the local watering hole where we know all of the bartenders who are allblack.
And, you know, we are definitely the minority in there as white people.
like, everybody knows, I was just looking around and like, everybody knows us.

(24:06):
Mm-hmm.
We're having all these interesting conversations with each other, including how like menot thinking my daughter is more special and getting her out of the way of your daughter
is how we survive this.
And I was like, this is it.
This is what white woman was for her husband trying to teach us.

(24:27):
And like we've been building this here.
And it was just like this one really nice moment where I looked around and it was like,and also you know what?
We don't have to lean in and tell people that we're not those white people because theyget it.
You don't have to, and in fact, if you do, it negates itself.
It's almost like if a gun, I have said this on a couple videos, but if a gun said, safetyis on, on it, would you be like, oh, good gun.

(24:57):
I don't know.
You're like, what?
Someone is trying to trick me.
my ex-husband who we know was the white supremacist and if we don't know, go listen to ourepisode number three.
But all I knew was that he was really creepy and scared me and when you're reading thebook, it's obvious that I escape a just barely abusive relationship.

(25:21):
But at the time, 23-year-old me trying to divorce this guy and he says to my mother, hesays, I was a good husband.
I never hit her, I never hurt her.
And I was like, now you see.
And she was like, absolutely.
Like, why are you, why is that your definition of good husband?

(25:48):
It negates itself.
It's like the second you start saying it, I used to say, if you have to say it, you ain'tit because.
And like, I'm a good white person.
It's kind of like, okay.
I mean, it's funny.
You have to be laughing when you say it.
And if you are not, now,
is, yeah, and this is another thing for the army of Amy's that like I've already beenseeing happen, right?

(26:13):
As I make my videos about white supremacy and deconstructing and my journey, and thenother white men are empowered to ask me questions.
And it's funny because now I know, you know, and they're like, so what do I do?
How do I start?
Heya!
do I go to find black women?

(26:33):
Like, please don't go out hunting for black women, you know?
please, please.
So the sound and everything, yes.
No, no.
I remember when I was having my different breakthroughs and realizing that where I waswasn't diverse enough and my thought was, okay, how do I go find that?

(26:54):
And so then I'm able to come in and be like, you gotta do the work on you and then theywill find you, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
It's so powerful.
And you're like, that's what we need.
That's what a community is.
You go forth and I did the same thing, right?
I, but I'm from the black community.
So I kind of reached out this way and I was like, Hey, and people on the edge, you andothers who are already, you know, prime to listen to me, you reach back and you tell

(27:21):
people, Hey, this is what I thought.
This is probably what you're going to think.
You belong to a community, even if it's like a deleterious community at this point.
also, because we can recognize the passion of being new to advocacy.
like, you know, I put up a black square, right?
Like we all make mistakes.

(27:42):
And so, but like, it's important.
My husband's still a little bit too, I'm a safe white guy, especially when he gets a fewdrinks.
But like, it's the passion that's important.
And like, he's getting there.
And that's when you start to understand where I talk about like your intention reallydoesn't matter because I don't think you know your intention yet all the time.

(28:04):
Like you're just leaving the cult.
Your intentions are like all over the place.
You know, your intention is to show me something and that's already the problem and like,blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's not a puppet.
I already know.
I know.
Trust me.
I've been here.
I know, but you gotta slow down.
gotta be quiet.
And I would rather have the white people kind of be in the waiting room who already didthis thing and go, no, no, no.

(28:26):
Okay.
Don't run into that door.
know it's enticing.
I know they're laughing and stuff.
You really want to know what's going on in there.
But like, you got to go through the preliminary phase first where we sit and like hold ourhands to our knees and say like, we can do this.
We can do this.
Like we can sit still even when we want to move and say things.
You know, there's something that I heard about public school that I think applies towhiteness.

(28:51):
And the person was saying that public school kids understand that every conversationdoesn't have to be about them.
Someone has told you to shut up.
Like, and I'm doing it nicer, but clearly there's a lot of people who have never beentold, I don't care.
And I can't, you know, and that's why the, am I talking was so important, but I do want toalso, I shared this on one of my Patreons and I leading by example, I believed the black

(29:24):
squares meant something.
I'm going to say this, you know, I wasn't always as aware as I am now of what's going on.
I was like, yes, you put that black square VP of whatever thing in the, when I was in thecorporation, I was so excited that my VP said something about black people's existence.

(29:46):
And then went right back.
I really believed like this was the beginning of a conversation and I, oh, you know what,but it's fine.
I had the phase.
just saying, you know, I was like,
You go girl.
And you know, I learned and now I'm here.
I'm not going to, wouldn't shame anybody for, it's just like keeping the humanity ofpeople who are not as far along as you in mind and see them as potential Amy's for your

(30:13):
army.
Don't see everyone who's not aligned with you as the other side.
in my chapter, said like community is us and group is us versus them.
You.
you need this outside force to protect you or something, know, some externalized thing.

(30:34):
because I keep thinking about this, anything you have to be a member of, anything you haveto fill out a membership form for is like, it's already starting off exclusionary.
whiteness was the first in group you could be kicked out of or allowed into.
It changes blackness.

(30:55):
You in the black community.
mean, you can identify with it.
could not identify with it, but like you are in it by self-determination.
Like I am a member of the black community because I know Hillman talk I'm black and Iunderstand the language, you know, it's because I exist as I am not because I applied, not
because anybody allowed me.

(31:18):
If I don't perform, if I'm not dedicated, if I don't, you know, it's the other thing aboutcommunication, coded communication isn't coded to keep people out.
We don't have AVE or slang or ebonics or whatever it's ever been called to exclude.
It's just naturally inclusive.
That vocabulary can vary, but you understand by context and grammatical consistency, whatyou're saying.

(31:41):
It's like you're in a, that's it.
it's even so interesting, right?
Because so I grew up, like I grew up in a cult that of course started off racist and we'vetalked all about this, but like my actual growing up, I was born in Asia, up growing up in
Brazil and then Mexico.
And then we didn't really ever talk about race, right?

(32:05):
And so it wasn't until I moved to America that like,
I feel like I was born as a white girl.
Like all of a sudden, the fact that I was white was very relevant every day all the time.
And of course I wrote this whole video book right now, UnAmerican, to actually deal withbecoming aware of that.

(32:27):
But it's something like I didn't have the language for for a long time.
And it's not that race didn't exist, obviously it did, partially because I didn't actuallyparticipate in the Brazilian culture.
I didn't understand those nuances either and could only understand it in hindsight.
But yeah, you know, it was like I got this weird concoction of like, wasn't really anAmerican white girl for 15 years.

(32:53):
And then bam, I was.
But similar to me in a way, right?
Because I have been biracial this whole time, right?
And I, but, and aware of it, I'm proud, I had the language, but I didn't have the languagefor what other people were gonna be weird.
Like I, the whiteness part of it, we're not given language for until I started learningknow your place aggression and gaslighting even.

(33:18):
Cause that's, guess, I don't know.
I didn't learn about narcissism until I entered the corporate world and like was trying tounderstand why I felt.
so confused, like confused about my existence.
And I do think that, so I've been saying like, I don't love gaslighting as the wordbecause it doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about.
And it's from this like 1920s man's thing.

(33:41):
I'm thinking it's curated confusion or curating confusion to gaslight someone because it'syour.
Those things, those words make sense together in a way that I'm like, I wasn't confusedand now also I'm confused.
And it happens with small, it's small.

(34:03):
Right.
not confused.
Confusion is being curated around you.
like, talk about our country right now.
Right.
It's coming from your natural, like they find out about you and then you're like anarcissist system, right?
About you, what they know already, what you need money.

(34:25):
Cause they've created the system for food and belonging and they separated you so theyknow what you need.
And now they can breadcrumb you with like this little thing.
Here's your TikTok back.
And you're like, yeah, this is so great.
But your, or any sense of

(34:46):
like direction or purpose, those you're confused.
So you're just like, how can I get unconfused?
They're like, well, all you gotta do is follow this how to and grind set and stuff.
And then things will make sense.
It's kind of how you feel.
It's how I felt.
Let me not project, but if I realize, they're curating confusion.
Why?

(35:06):
So that I will not feel stable, secure, safe enough to have my own thoughts.
and time for myself and like my own ability to make money outside of this, get a job, workfor this.
Yeah, and exhaustion, exhaustion right now is so important.

(35:28):
Okay, like we talked about, we talked about how I was in the NFC playoff community, poorchoices were made.
And so yesterday I was exhausted and a little something else.
And like, I was sad and I was panicking over the state of the country.
And then I slept for 12 straight hours last night.

(35:50):
And like, I feel better.
And by the way, this is why religions and other high control organizations tell you don'tgo to sleep angry because they want, especially women, to just continue in that fight
until you're so exhausted that you just give it up and you don't wanna bring it up thenext morning.

(36:12):
I know, people never think about that.
There was some show.
fix it.
I was watching and she was from 70 years in the future or something, or she'd been alivefor millions of years or something and her advice was never go to bed angry.
And I was like.
Shut up.

(36:32):
Hahaha
You know what?
Get, get back to the future.
I don't like that lady.
People, why do we listen to advice?
Also, they're just another, they're just a person.
Like they're not more adulty than you, but I, I, you know, I love my alliterations, but I,I said like groups are, are exhaustingly exclusive or exclusively exhausting.

(36:57):
Both of those things.
They're exhausting.
They're exclusive.
and groups are empowering and expansive.
I just don't remember which order I put them all in.
But like, it's so, and they're not, like I said, it's not like patriarchy and matriarchy.
They are not opposites.
It is suffocating yourself or providing yourself with safety and security.

(37:21):
results aren't black and white.
It's like.
completely different things.
The exhaustion though, is gonna be one of those things I think is the hardest.
Cause you lean into it.
It almost reinforces itself and you're just so tired and then you're like, let me just dothis thing.

(37:46):
I'll just, you just get a job, right?
For the meantime and you don't realize how much that job takes from you.
Yeah.
And, you know, there's another thing about panic, which is like, I don't know if youremember when the warning rockets incoming message got sent to the entire state of Hawaii.

(38:12):
Right.
And like, and my actual cult actually had a culty song video, music video about this.
was called 20 minutes to go.
How much love can you show?
Right?
And it's, you know, it's Cold War panic, right?
The rockets are incoming and all you have is 20 minutes left.

(38:35):
And so all you can do is sit down and hug your family, right?
Like if you think the end is imminent, you're not fighting back, right?
And so actually in extremely traumatic situations like role.
war, genocide, climate refugees, any of these things.

(38:58):
The way human beings push themselves through really traumatic situations is by tellingyourself, it's not that bad.
Other people have it worse, right?
Stay calm.
Part of the problem is then later we don't go back and acknowledge, like, no, it reallywas that bad, right?
Even if.

(39:18):
This cult is out of power after four years.
We're still gonna have a traumatized nation.
But you can't fight back if you're in an absolute panic.
And this has almost become one of the things I do on my channel is just like sit therecalmly knitting, like calmly cataloging the things that are going on.

(39:42):
Because like that's what we have to do.
We have to like assess.
And this is the one skill as the Army officers we can bring to the table.
It's like, no, I've been in situations where people around me are just falling down.
And it's a lot more profitable to sell chaos or like, and more and nihilism, but you it'sso irresponsible to do that.

(40:09):
black women, will not see black women doing that.
They may tell you this could happen.
This is what we've known from the past.
And like, these are worst case scenarios.
I've seen some of that, but even still that's learning from, we're supposed to be learningfrom, not just learning about and
to fear and to prevent and like, how are white people so up, have you not been listening?

(40:34):
And then if there's so many books, I just don't, you know, but realizing that a lot of thebooks written by white people for white people are just how tos.
Our how tos, how it, what it, and not now what.
And like no one talks about MLK's chaos or community, you where do we go from here?

(40:56):
We just talk about dream speech and moving forward.
There's too much moving forward without looking like bringing the past with us.
You know, we're just like black and white pictures, Nazis, Hitler.
Those are bad things.
Those don't still continue today.
We only have them to compare to incorrect Nazis are so left.
Yeah, well, and you know, I see a lot of people saying like, why does everything have tobe black and white?

(41:20):
Why can't we just have peace and love?
like, you can't have peace and love while the war is still going on.
And while you're still in the cult, you still have to use the language of the cult, right?
Until we...
my God.
The rhetorical questions.
I remember I said that in one of my hair videos when I was first like, cause people talkabout how white people are touching my hair with smiles on their face and all these white

(41:43):
women.
Who does that anymore?
Who touches people?
does?
No more rhetorical questions for white women because that, how dare you, by the way, Ijust told you a story in which three people did it and you're like, who does that?
I want to say a curse word in your face.
And you think you're aligning with me, I'm agreeing with you and who, I'm so shocked, I'mso sorry, who does that?

(42:07):
Bitch, I just told you who does it and it's your people.
But you going who does that means what to me?
We need to take the information and feel more powerful with it and not whatever ishappening with y'all.
And is something I think that is key, right?
And this is why I say like, you can use your whiteness as a shield or as a weapon, right?

(42:30):
Like we need to be saying that to the white people touching the hair.
Who does that?
Is what you say to your garen friend who's doing it.
Right.
Or you tell this story and say, I heard this.
Can you believe that people are still doing that?
You don't come to me.
And that's often what happens.
And I've heard, you know, in, in the, am I still here or why I'm still here?

(42:52):
not sure what's, um, is that after every, like she worked in DEI and she's black and shehas a white coworker, they're talking.
And at the end of every session, the white people would only come up to the black woman toconfess all of the things that they didn't in the now.
And they're sad and they're crying, not to the white woman.
The white woman sitting by herself, got no one to talk to.

(43:12):
And the black woman has to, what is something, whatever that is, because you're so close,but so far.
And it's this individualism.
I think there is, I don't know if it's like, there's a neurodivergent delusion we allhave.
And I think in this society, and maybe it's not neurodivergent, but I think it reallyexacerbates it.

(43:37):
Like you either think everyone thinks like I do or no one thinks like I do.
And so like narcissism is a little bit more like everyone's like this.
And whereas maybe even autism or something, cause people tend to do the, I don't know.
Either way, both of those things are wrong and like find your people.
I don't know much about that.
Everyone thinks like I do, but I do.

(43:58):
I have felt that sense of no one thinks like I do.
And once I realized that was wrong, I embraced it.
I was excited.
not to be special.
Like I don't want to be special in that way.
that's like, that's like a weapon for you.
and something that you were saying made me realize I was like, this is this is one of thelike Amy skills that absolutely has to be part of like anti racist army, Amy army basic

(44:22):
training.
Like, we do this to each other with our husbands, right?
It's like, I want my husband to get something through his head.
So I don't bring it up, my friend brings up something parallel.
And it's like,
we all know that like women are of equal intelligence and dignity blah blah blah blah blahyou know and then like introducing it that way so that's what you were saying you're like

(44:48):
oh my gosh you know about this thing that happened but like you're saying it in your groupof white lady friends and you know like one of them has done this but you just present it
as like you know how we all know that it's absolutely inhumane and ridiculous to touchblack women's hair
Exactly.
And, what's been wild is that I've done, I did that at work.

(45:09):
And this is when I think I realized the gap because I did it.
And one person who had been one of the, she goes, this is about you.
And I could tell she really did not identify with that.
Now that's fine.
Cause I think with time, you know, maybe eventually it would come to her later when shegoes to do it and then she'll whatever.

(45:32):
don't, it's not about.
You know, in that moment necessarily identifying I'm the one she's talking to me.
But like that told me this is some kind of unconscious thing.
You don't realize that you see me as property.
You don't even realize you're doing this.
and because I'm presenting it this way, that's kind of obvious.
It's like, I would never, I'm not one of those people.

(45:53):
So they don't identify with that position, but I don't know.
I would.
you know what?
That's part of what we need help with.
As white women, we are all indoctrinated into this, right?
In some way or another, obviously.
This white people, the Puritans, invented universal education so that they could indoctthe children, right?

(46:15):
So, yeah.
the end, and I feel like there's this focus on a certain availability of characters,right?
There's only a couple of characters that can be in any story, right?
Protagonists, antagonists, extras, right?
And they only see themselves, white women especially, only see themselves as taking upeither victim, victor, or potentially villain.

(46:38):
And like, that can't be if you are the villain of a story, but those aren't real things.
You are either all or none of them.
You're just floating around being Val.
And sometimes you're a victim of stuff.
Sometimes you do, but that's not what you are, who you are, whatever.
And sometimes there's a story in which you might identify a little bit more as thevillain.

(47:01):
If you must make it so, communities don't really have those because it's just us, not usand them.
Usually we're just telling a story and you can learn from identifying with all parts ofit.
But
We got this anti-hero business, you know, with the Taylor Swift of it all.
And like, I only know that because I was Googling what's the difference between a villainand an anti-hero.

(47:23):
And it was like, Taylor Swift album?
You want the Taylor Swift album?
What about some Taylor Swift?
I was like, hey, okay, that's perfect.
And like, we got that.
That's great.
And you're just a person, you know?
This isn't a movie fairy tale happily ever after.
Doesn't exist.
Did I tell you that the little short roll-up chapter that I do of the book before I handit to you for a good ending is me talking about how the Arrows Tour is a perfect little

(47:51):
cult and doctor nation experience?
They're gonna love hate this book.
They're gonna love hate it, like in the best way.
I love a love hate.
and like I'm not hating on it, because I'm also saying like experiences are experiences,and if there's no one waiting there to manipulate you, then like you just had a night out

(48:12):
that did these things.
Unless we want to talk about, of course, the larger cult of capitalism and this high levelstuff.
But it's...
do with it.
It's kind of like what you say about community too, you know?
It's like, and this is why I think so much of white people's groups go wrong.

(48:35):
It's cause they take stuff from communities of color that work in community.
Chanting is one of my favorite examples, sitting in circles and chanting.
And then they use that for a group, right?
For exclusion and control and power.
They use the connection, that's why I have, you know, I can't just say anything.

(48:57):
was like colonizing connection for control is like where groups, they just take what theysee, right?
Like what they see is all there is and then they think what they say is all there is andso they just model what a community looks like.
But the model isn't the thing, it's a model.
It's like, I do this for some reason, because I've been thinking about people and stuff aslike an egg and like community is like a hard boiled egg.

(49:22):
Whereas group is just an egg and it like needs protection and the shell keeps it alltogether and don't drop it.
And like it only exists as long as it's in this shape, right?
And like held together.
Whereas the community's got looks just the same from a distance and like got the shellneeds the shell to be, but there's so much more.
It nourishes your body.
You can eat it, separate the yolk and the white.

(49:44):
Very easy.
Whereas the other egg is like,
And if you crack it and you crack the yolk, it's a whole different egg.
You can't make the egg you want to make or something.
I don't know.
It's just really, it's sitting with me.
This whiteness is an egg business and things can look in from the side, you know?

(50:05):
versus the hard boiled egg because again, the things that bond teams is going throughreally hard things together.
This is why when your corporate dude bro brings in two special forces dudes that are gonnarun you through a tough mutter and get you bonded like a military team, that's why it

(50:31):
doesn't work.
Right.
people who are going through the storm in Asheville, right, like their community is prettybonded.
People who have survived 400 years of slavery and racism and white supremacy, like they'rebonded because going through hard things together is actually what bonds you.

(50:53):
Right, and like I've always said, struggling is not suffering.
And for whiteness, it looks the same, right?
Because the privilege is to not have to experience the hot water.
Your privilege keeps you from having to be in that hard environment that hardens you, butnow you're just protected in this thing all the time.
And then what?

(51:15):
Then you're actually spoiled.
That's how you spoil.
But they got, I guess maybe they thought people were an egg.
Anyway.
spoil children.
But like, that's not what we're talking about.
It's putting them in environments that are...
You can struggle.
It can be hard.
It can be work.
But it doesn't have to be suffering.

(51:36):
Now, Black people have suffered, yes.
But when you struggle to keep things together, sometimes that makes it more worth it.
Struggling is okay.
Learning how to walk is a struggle for babies.
It's not easy.
But they're okay.
They're all right.
You know, learning that you talk more than you thought you talked.
is a struggle to get through.
You didn't suffer.

(51:57):
used her face when she was trying to learn how to crawl.
Face was one of the limbs.
identify with that as someone who's been told many times how expressive my face is and Ijust really haven't known what to do with that.
I'm like, I just use my face.
I use everything I got to try to express it to get where I'm trying to go.

(52:20):
Um, but yeah, I like that too, because not all hardness is the same and like a horribleegg is designed in that way to be eaten by a person.
It's got people consumption in mind and all that stuff, but just like
Stock brokers work really, really hard to come up with their decisions and things andstuff and work, but it doesn't equate to valuable decisions and stuff and work.

(52:47):
It's just, it's just hard work, just tough.
The science says it, even white men told me, so I know factually.
I read the book by white men who said stock brokers are not more helpful than just likeliterary or random generator.
But because they do all this analyzing and they do actual hard
work that they learn the skills to do to forecast, goes into all the background, itchanges nothing about the value of what they bring to you.

(53:16):
But we're like, don't sleep though, but they're not sleeping.
Okay.
same for all the orders that all work from home is canceled now in the government andstuff.
And first of all, they don't have the space for everyone.
And second of all, the studies by the white men show that everybody only works for aboutfour hours a day in office jobs anyways.

(53:45):
See, and they don't care.
And that's how I know knowledge.
the cult never cares more about successful operations than they care about control.
Ooh, that's it.
That's it.
And we need to know that factually as humans, right?
And stop begging the system to do something different and put people first.

(54:06):
We've never been first.
America came over and said, nope, people deserve to not exist unless they think what Ithink.
That's how we started.
So we have to call the bluff of that and return our sense of power to ourselves and otherhumans though.
Not just like we're the only ones who are gonna.
be so smart as to relinquish our reliance on the rules.

(54:31):
I like that.
That felt good.
I like those ours.
But like we have to, you have to know that it's not just you.
Like you can't, and I think that you're good for the revolution too, because revolutions,a leader in a community isn't always the leader.
It's circumstantial based on experience.
What are we leading?
Who, leading who, where, what?

(54:51):
What are we doing?
If we don't need to go anywhere, who, why do we lead?
We're just being, we exist because we are.
Now, if we have a mission or like this group of community members, not like the group,this group of people wants to go do something and someone has more experience, then they

(55:12):
should lead that mission or whatever.
That specific little thing you want to do, but they're not the eternal forever leader ofall things.
I think rules need rulers.
I'm like, no, no.
This is, I mean, this is really interesting even in the military, right?

(55:34):
So I was in an aviation unit, but then I was also attached to like infantry patrols.
So like very military and then aviation, which in many ways is the opposite because theprivate on that helicopter who's the mechanic or the guy on the gun or the pilot are all

(55:57):
just as important as the commander.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
technical fields, you know, it takes five people to fly that helicopter that you seebehind me that my husband flies in a war zone.
And all five of those people are necessary.
If one person is not in their place, the whole helicopter goes down.

(56:19):
Right?
So, and so like, because of this, aviation is pretty respectful to each other and rankdoesn't matter as much.
because it literally is the person, right?
When my husband is flying with a Colonel, that Colonel is something ranks above him morethan 10, 12 ranks above him or something.

(56:43):
He's a Warrant Officer, it's different.
there's a lot, there's a lot.
But he's the pilot in command.
He's the pilot with the knowledge to actually fly this mission.
And so he's the one in control.
And so you then have
to have this more team culture.

(57:04):
You know, or like my husband always says, like he always carries a hundred dollar bill inhis pocket when he's flying in combat and whoever pulls him out of a burning helicopter
can just take that money right out of his pocket.
And it's like, it's enough that they want it, but it's not enough that if you hate thatguy, you're gonna pull him out of a burning helicopter, you know?

(57:24):
And that's like,
In my head, it was like one of them.
Got it.
Yeah.
a leader, like the way you have to be is you want them to pull you out of a burninghelicopter because you know what?
When the helicopter goes zero to ashes in three minutes, no one's gonna ask them why theydidn't pull the captain guy out.

(57:45):
Right.
The care for another human being is what moves people.
And we can't, you can't replace caring for a person with some kind of credential, blah,blah, blah.
Not gonna happen.
That doesn't move people as much as you want to.
You can do whatever all the, even fear tactics and whatever.

(58:05):
Yeah.
No.
And this is like, you of course they try to industrialize it so they ruin it anyways, butlike in military officer culture, it's leaders eat last, right?
Like you show them every single day that you prioritize them by you eating last.
And it's, you know, obviously, right?

(58:26):
It's institutionalized and there's all kinds of things to that, but it is at least,exactly, exactly, right?
But it is at least acknowledging that thing that you said, right?
Which is like good leaders take care of their people, right?
I always say it's a huge danger sign when a leader is making you prove your loyalty tothem.

(58:51):
by the way, Donald J.
Trump might be making the military sign loyalty pledges like a dictator in a game ofthrones.
But like good leaders.
Good leaders are proving their loyalty to you.
You know, like, that's what it's supposed to be.
You earn respect.

(59:11):
And I said like, a leader isn't someone who instructs you on how to open doors and whatdoors to open.
A leader should be the one who opens the doors, opens the door, goes in and goes clear,you're good to go.
And you trust them that that means what they say it means.
And now you can go in and do what you were there to do.
Cause you're not the leader.
That's a responsibility of a person.

(59:33):
A leader is a member.
Not all members are leaders.
Kind like a whiskey scotch thing, I think.
And like, you're just another member.
you just happen to be leading this thing and like, I wouldn't want to be.
Black people don't want to lead stuff.
White people want to lead stuff, but they have a weird sense of what that means.
Because I, when I was in corporate America, was the first time I heard shit rollsdownhill.

(59:57):
That, that was the answer as to why this boss wasn't going to do the thing he wanted done.
I didn't understand.
They were like, well, isn't that you?
he was like, she rolls downhill.
So you got to do it.
Haha.
Like, wait, what?
Also, you could have said so many other things, but this is what it means.

(01:00:19):
You got a better job.
You do less.
I, okay.
So.
You have earned the respect of not having to like and then they're gonna be like hard workyou aren't when I was your and It's so with the gaslighting the curated confusion that's

(01:00:40):
curing confusion cuz look at me.
I did any of that make sense.
No
actually remember, I actually remember briefing my lieutenants on this, on the deploymentwhere I was a captain, where I was like, I know this is gonna seem like I'm making you do
all my work, but you have to learn this stuff.
And it's true, right?
In that institution, like it is true, that's how I learned how to do it.

(01:01:03):
And on and on we pass it.
But you know what, I have this story in my book of when I'm sent to the infantry team.
And this is the first time I ever saw a lieutenant command respect, right?
Lieutenants are the baby officers.
These are the brand new 22 year old MBA, you know, kids, right?
I was one too.

(01:01:25):
And so I saw this group of men like respected this leader and you could just tell, right?
And so he walks away and I say that to the sergeant and I'm like, why?
Like, what is it?
And he goes,
We just all know that he would die for us.
He did, by the way.

(01:01:45):
He was the leader that went into the active ambush and laid down on top of something veryexplosive.
So sad story, but I mean, just this was a guy who was enlisted in the army and got chosento be an officer by his peers, get nominated to be sent to West Point and just was like,

(01:02:07):
as a...
as a 26 year old leader was still one of the best, and said to me, said, Daniella, whatmakes you different?
Great question.
My answer, of course, made me very, very different, right?
And then says like, this is a benefit that you bring to the table, right?

(01:02:29):
Like the fact that they sent him a bunch of untrained and under armored women soldiers,
could have really pissed him off.
Instead, he was like, we'll protect you, you all use your newness as an advantage to theteam to point out stuff we don't see.
value in those individuals, right?

(01:02:50):
And not just seeing you as the stat you are, the concept you are, as a woman.
You're like, no, no, okay, Daniela, what are you, it's valuing individuality and notindividualism.
And this is part of what I think even gets into like groups versus community too, right?

(01:03:10):
Because I keep being asked this now, right?
People like, well, you said the army was a cult and I did and I say it a lot.
And they're like, but then you say it's not gonna be taken over by this other cult.
And I'm like, well, think, difference, difference, right?
The army cult is pledged to the constitution, blah, blah, blah.

(01:03:31):
the people in the system.
However, people ask me, so are all cults harmful?
And I say, yes, to the individual, right?
And the cult is always ultimately harmful to the individual.
And...

(01:03:52):
In the, with the military, we've just decided that we're okay with that.
We've decided that we're okay with approximately 1 % of our population being in this cultwhere they may die or otherwise be adversely impacted because we need them for X, right?
And so it's not even like.

(01:04:14):
Yeah, anyway, that's, know, I just...
It's like, we know!
We know that our membership in this group is going to harm us.
But we're willing to do it because X, or Z.
But see, it's that X, Y, or Z that we all just like, it's the given.

(01:04:35):
That's that whiteness that's unspoken.
It's this fear, this like, know, cause fear and everyone's gonna get us and to protect ourfreedoms, even though we're the leader of the free world, which is a weird way to say
anything.
Like I even like, the president is the leader of the free world.
What are you talking about?

(01:04:55):
What universe book is this where now,
What?
So if they don't exist, you know, do we stop?
also just like imagine how averse they would have been to saying that Kamala Harris wasthe leader of the free world.

(01:05:17):
It's, I know, the whole thing is just like, we're not great, guys.
We're not doing a great job.
We've never done a great job.
Who is coming to attack us?
We have bases there, but we need this Department of Defense because all these, that'spersecution that isn't showing itself.
I have not seen all these people who just are, that's us.

(01:05:39):
We're projecting.
The privilege of like projection is crazy.
And like the public.
This is what the public thinks has never been true.
The public thought, the public thing incorrect.
Don't speak for me.
my job now is explaining the military to civilians, but it's like, all these countries aregonna come invade us with all of our military bases in their countries?

(01:06:05):
Like.
And who are these people?
Do they have jobs?
They're just like waiting for us to be asleep and then they're just centered on us.
this one today.
What if Donald Trump just replaces everyone in the military who's not loyal to him withincompetent people?
where do you think these people are coming from?

(01:06:25):
Like, the military only hit their recruiting goals because of women.
These angry MAGA militia bros, like, they're not signing up.
Like, yeah.
no one, is not profitable not to.
Unfortunately, the system wants us distracted, exhausted, cetera.

(01:06:46):
and nowhere in the system is it going to be like, you know what a good idea is?
Chill everybody out for a sec.
Never, never.
You have to look for black women and see what their vibe is.
And it checks you somehow.
because like it's always been Octavia Butler has been writing for decades and it couldhave been written to date.

(01:07:07):
like you been, you know, and I have to do it too, but how dare we 2024 now it's bad.
now it's a problem because you are feeling it.
Now it's a problem because you see it to be true.
So if you had believed us 10 years ago, like we'd be in it, but you have to

(01:07:30):
believe and then sit and then go back to what you ignored.
Like I think the country's never done that.
We dirty delete, we move forward.
We're like, it didn't happen.
I change it, amendment.
We don't say that anymore.
With the N word, we don't say that anymore.
So we're not racist.
We're listening to you guys.
We name that street something.

(01:07:50):
And I think it's way more impactful.
I've seen people like in your lives be like, this is so calming.
I need more white people calming down.
Other white people.
Because I don't think you also realize, like, the surprise and stuff is so...

(01:08:10):
Hmm.
I've been getting my language checked a lot and I'm trying to just learn and incorporatebecause yeah, like I do, I say a lot of things that are ignorant in that way because I
haven't been the group of people that has been impacted with.
No, I still think it's important for me to be talking about this stuff.
I'm just acknowledging that I also make these mistakes of thinking like, it's bad now.

(01:08:35):
Yes.
And, and it is, I'm sorry.
So I don't want, right.
Like you're all, the feelings are valid.
It's how do we respond with behavior though?
Not all behavior is valid.
because I went through like a whole couple of years of trauma realizing racism was realand like impacts me and like, God, all these white women.

(01:08:59):
and I think you're allowed to have those feelings.
Just don't bring them to the classrooms and where you're learning about how to moveforward.
You know, don't go to the class until you're ready.
Like take your time.
Don't show up at a black person's video and be like, wait, I'm just confused.
If you're confused, go back.
Don't bring your confusion to me because that's personal.

(01:09:22):
We've all had our confusion, but like.
It's just time and place.
I never wanted to be, I don't want it to seem like don't be scared or whatever, but getthat source of hope.
But you have to look for it because it's not going to show up in your news cycle.
It's not going to show up naturally.
The black women have been right in, like I said, it wasn't in my face.

(01:09:46):
I had no idea until it was happening to me.
That's my white side.
I'm gonna believe my white side.
Until I was experiencing it, that I said, good.
Hey guys, I think maybe it's still racist out here.
So I don't, I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to or like, you know, speaking down,it's just, that's what we have to call ourselves on.

(01:10:08):
The ancestors come in and go, girl, come on.
We've been trying to tell you.
So now, yeah, sometimes community comes with a little bit of insulting.
And also if this is just when we're getting used to it, then get ready.
When I tell my story that 2014 was the first time I heard the term white privilege, somepeople are like, what's wrong with you?

(01:10:30):
And that's correct.
But also we're here now.
So I just think for the Amy's, it's like we gotta learn that.
You're gonna learn some new skills that you didn't have before.
You're gonna have growing pains.
You're gonna get.
All of this just makes me think of basic training.
You're learning how to be a soldier in this fight, but there's a while where you justgotta do the learning.

(01:10:55):
Yeah, you just gotta kind of like observe, take in where you're at.
Like you shouldn't show up and start talking at people.
You know, you don't know what the culture is here.
Like get accustomed and see how other people interact and just kind of, no one's waitingfor you to, no one's waiting for you.

(01:11:17):
I feel like some white people think people are waiting for them to like agree, relate,understand.
this analogy, we need to keep going with this.
like, you know, like until you're a part of the brigade, if you show up all pointing yourweapon at stuff, you're just a crazy person in a crowd with a weapon, you know.
Right.
You have to know where and when.

(01:11:37):
And like, that was so much of my beginning.
I was like, white women are angry.
And I appreciate it.
But we're angry, just wildly angry in our homes and yelling and yelling at people who arecoming to commisery and not at, like, I just want to take it, focus it, point it, and let

(01:11:58):
it go and let you guys just get creative over there.
brilliance of your name and what you do?
Because at least for some of us, like I immediately got it.
I was like, yeah, when I found out about racism and white supremacy, I was pissed AF, butI didn't know what to do about that.
And so when I saw that, I was like, perfect.

(01:12:20):
Watch, learn.
on their way outside the call.
I'm like, Hey, hey, oh, over here.
You just left.
it.
And then, and then, yeah, here's the flyer.
Before we go.
No, there is a convention center over there, but before you enter any of the rooms, we'regoing to wait.
We're going to, know, just real quick.
I want to give you the rundown.
I do have my own room in a convention center where I talk about stuff, but like, I'mdefinitely the, I like to promote it because I was there.

(01:12:46):
I was just in that room with you guys, kind of.
I was more serving the room.
was like, yeah, sure.
But like, you know, and we need to see that like, it's fine.
And black people aren't here.
Even when they yell at you, you're going to be okay.
You'll learn from it.
It'll be such a good story.
When white people yell at you, you don't learn anything.

(01:13:08):
You just lose money.
Everyone's like, you're defending your own humanity.
It's bad, bad time.
Black people yell at you, you get jokes.
People will laugh.
You get to move on.
They'll forget real quick.
White people don't forget because that's all they have is their lists of good and badpeople and the good and bad that they have done.
Not all white people.

(01:13:29):
We know this.
Okay.
It's like whiteness is the problem, not white people.
And I think I love the community building within the like newly aware.
I love that.
And I think they're not going to serve that to you.
You got to kind of take that.
Yeah.
for yourself.

(01:13:50):
This has been such a good conversation.
And now I just want to know, like going back to your Victor villain thing.
So I did, I threw myself a grownup princess party and it was 30 women, most of them werewhite or white passing.
And I said, it's hilarious because like when you tell a bunch of 30 and 40 year old women,now I will acknowledge white women to dress as princesses, like fully 50 % of them come as

(01:14:18):
villains.
And I'm like, what would black women do besides maybe not even have that party?
not have that party.
Yeah, we wouldn't have that party.
It's very limiting.
Think about that party at all, right?
Because like how many princesses are there?
And so I think that's so interesting because white women are like...
this was part of me never have having had a childhood.

(01:14:40):
So like that was the rationale.
But I obviously also now understand that it's a very white woman thing to do, probably.
But I think, and that's fine, right?
Like I don't think that there's anything wrong with that.
We grew up on certain things culturally that weren't intended for our best benefit, butwhatever.
Like I'm still gonna watch the shows that I see.
Like you have to be able to carry nuance with this because I watch things that I know havebad messaging, but I watch them, like I don't have that many options.

(01:15:07):
But I think that's primarily the problem with whiteness and the group, like the confinesof the characters.
You either have,
these little victim victors or the villain.
And like, you don't get other characters.
Black people took like real life memes and made Halloween out of like memes.

(01:15:28):
I love it.
It's so much context.
You have to like get it to get it sometimes.
But this shallow like egg model thing of pick, you know, you get to be a princess.
Like that's your goal.
Princess, happily ever after.
What does a princess do?
you
What does a princess even do?
Is that a job?

(01:15:49):
Like I'm not sure.
I know it's not a job, but they marry the prince.
That's what they do.
but I do feel like I like the villain choice.
Cause that says those women want more than what they were given.
I like that.
I always say I love it when Disney has to do like a villain backstory because that's whenyou find out she wasn't just a skinny bitch who hated puppies.

(01:16:12):
You know, like there was more to that story.
And yeah, and also, you know, the idea of being like, even if you said Disney, right, mostpeople would come dressed as the main character or villain, not as like the flounder, you
know, like these other things.
which could be far more fun and interesting.

(01:16:33):
I struggle with the movies.
Cause it's like, what if we saw just different frameworks of storytelling?
What if it wasn't the same?
and even in the live action Aladdin where they're, you know, they're trying so hard,right?
They're addressing the racism and they're blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And it's all about Jasmine taking the power and holding the power in the end.

(01:16:58):
But then my four year old is like, but mama, shouldn't it be called Jasmine?
It's still called, it's still called Alas.
Mmm.
made her the whole main character who even wins and holds the power on her own in the end.

(01:17:18):
And the movie is still called Aladdin.
yeah, yeah.
See, and that's why I like, just leave it, you know, and just learn from it.
Don't try to change it into something.
Cause I just feel like you spend so much energy trying to change the past and amend it,dirty delete the problematic things with it.
It's problematic.

(01:17:38):
It's okay.
Like it's not, don't teach it, but like you can't just act like, it wasn't bad because,it's not so.
to keep your Disney characters, but question is there happily ever after?
What did this teach me?
Why, what can I release of these goals?
Because I'm not a villain.
Like you don't need a villain story, Taylor Swift.

(01:18:01):
You could just be a person, but that takes, know, that's she's in a system.
That's a whole different thing.
You can just be a person.
You don't have to be a main character.
The main character syndrome that
a reason why in real life when someone tells us they have a nemesis, we take back and lookat them a little funny, right?

(01:18:25):
Imagine someone like when they always have this story about this person who just hatesthem so much.
It's like, are you the problem?
Do we know any main characters who are like, you know, or villains who are okay?
It's just, we don't do enough spreading out of main, right?
We're not served those stories, but you could tell like even when cops are like, I knowwhat happened.

(01:18:52):
Cause I watched Gone Girl.
And they did that thing with that girl who they just decided she was lying.
American Nightmare, it's on Netflix.
it's like this woman who was kidnapped and her husband was like, what happened?
They kidnapped my wife, da da da.
And the cops are like, nah, this is Gone Girl.
We've seen the movie.
And he's like, what?

(01:19:14):
And then she gets returned.
like, well, this is obviously Gone Girl.
Well, first he murdered her, then it's Gone Girl, whatever.
But they're just, these are people.
These police officers are people who watch movies and say, my life is definitely thatmovie.
So when I, you know, we have to stop that first.

(01:19:34):
We,
Yeah.
we can do better than this we were given.
so you don't center yourself?
Mm-hmm, center yourself to it.
Because, yeah, that's, the Real Housewives give a lot of, they center themselves, likethey walk around as if they've never, you know, they just start talking to people as if

(01:19:54):
those people should care.
I was going to my doctor as they're like paying for a coffee.
I, you know, and I just, they don't care.
They don't care.
That person you're talking to would rather you not, but like.
Maybe that's a main character thing.
Maybe not.
Although, although if you walk around knitting or crocheting, like people will walk up toyou and say great things.

(01:20:19):
So that's like little community tip there.
And see, doesn't that, it comes from here first.
Like when you start healing, it literally shows up in some way.
had me, it was my hair first.
I didn't know that's what was happening on my journey, but I was like, wait, the way myhair goes out of my head might be okay.

(01:20:42):
Like literally was the thought.
It might be okay cause it belongs to my, like it's not, I had to fully re-
think about what hair is for myself.
And then I did this and then I was like, make colors.
And people talk to me all the time.
So I stopped wearing this outside.
I only wear it inside because people talk to me.

(01:21:05):
Good problems.
it's so funny.
I get so many compliments when I wear orange and sometimes people are like I wish I couldwear orange and I'm like you you can you can just do it
It's kind of sad, you know, when I, when I do stuff with this color palette and sometimesI do it just because people like to see the colors, you know, they're just like, that's

(01:21:27):
what, that thing doesn't matter what I make.
It's just color guys.
And I get it.
It's just kind of, that's like, that's how far we are.
it's an important form of resistance.
Yeah, and it brings people to the community to you versus you hunting down.
Like, don't be a predator for community.

(01:21:47):
Don't be like, how can I go find black people?
do that.
They'll find you.
In the last two weeks, I think I bragged about the 25 year old black man that gave me acompliment on my fashion.
And then last week it was an older black man that complimented my fashion and like bestcompliments, just like yarn and community.

(01:22:09):
yeah, it's because of who you are, right?
That you made the decisions to do these things, right, too.
And that is seen in a community.
You chose these things and that, we love that.
Yes, earrings, right?
We don't have to say, I really love your earrings.
Where'd you get them?
I want them.
That's one last thing I want to leave this on.
It's just cause you like something doesn't mean you should want to have it.

(01:22:31):
You can like something with, cause I notice white people do this a lot.
They want to like consume.
I love that I needed, where'd you buy it?
Do you sell it?
Do you sell it?
Do you sell it?
I understand it.
But also I just want you to question that little, the consumerism of like, I gotta have ittoo.
for me now, because the answer is always either I made it or I thrifted it.
So sorry you can't have it.

(01:22:53):
Right?
And like that has to be okay.
You can just like it and let it inspire you.
You don't have to prove you like it by wanting to also own it.
Yeah, and that's a very good final piece of advice for us white ladies.
Hey white women, you don't have to own it too.

(01:23:14):
Please, please, please follow Rebecca on her Patreon.
She has this incredible series on the tenets of white supremacy.
I promise you will learn so much and you don't have to comment until you're ready.
And please pay her, pay black women.
And this is also my reminder,
If you don't know anything else to do right now, donate to the ACLU.

(01:23:39):
And then of course, as I think we say every time now, find black women, listen to blackwomen.
They will tell you where to put your time and your money right now.
We have been doing it.
I promise it's there.
will accept the answers.
Don't seek solutions.
I got the seeking from you, that seeking that like, they're there.
They're there.

(01:24:00):
Just listen.
Thank you.
much, Rebecca.
My book, Uncultured, is linked in the descriptions if you are interested.
And of course, on YouTube, you can see our lovely faces and our crocheting andawesomeness.
So thank you all so much.

(01:24:21):
Thanks.