Episode 24 | Grindset is Gross

In this conversation, Daniella and Rebecca explore the complexities of living in a society influenced by Donald Trump, the rise of online cultures, and the misogyny that permeates social interactions. They discuss the role of white women in society, the importance of community and self-care, and the impact of societal expectations on individual identity. The conversation delves into the dangers of conformity, the need for transparency in work, and the importance of listening to marginalized voices. They emphasize the power of collective action and the necessity of understanding history to create meaningful change in society.

Connect with Rebecca at:

The White Woman Whisperer Website

 

The White Woman Whisperer Patreon

 

The White Woman Whisperer TikTok

 

Connect with Daniella at:

You can read all about that story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

For more info on me:

Patreon: https://bit.ly/YTPLanding

Cult book Clubs (Advanced AND Memoirs) Annual Membership:

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
He was like, all these influencers talk about

(00:01):
Grindset, ugh.
As a word worker, ew, ew, ew, ew.
Grindset, that's like the mentality, ew.
It's such a bad word.
And this is like the white man's thing.

(00:25):
Well, here we are living in Donald Trump's America, round two.
I know.
It's, you know.
It's like, you know, we already were, but there's an honesty to it that you just, this iswhere people go through trauma and they laugh because, you what?

(00:56):
What?
Again?
You know?
But like, yeah, history repeats itself.
Now we're just in the new age where it's like, faster, okay.
So, ugh.
everyone's been asking me what I think of, you know, Elon Musk's Nazi salute and stuff.
like, one of the things I've been saying is, like, 30 % of Americans supported the Nazisthe first time around.

(01:24):
Right?
Like,
I think just what was this last week?
I said, our pledge of allegiance used to come with a Nazi salute.
like, it's, it's, it's evil pointing itself at each other.
Like we're not, we at some point we gotta wake up.
Hey, this is us guys.
This is us.
We're, you know, we are the thing.

(01:45):
And when I say we, I don't really mean we this time.
I mean, y'all because y'all.
When I say y'all, I really do mean everyone but black women, probably I could say, becausethe more I look at stuff, even that's why you said the Nazi thing, because I was, I've

(02:08):
been listening to some stuff about Amber Heard because I've been toying with the idea ofbringing back what I used to do of whisper Wednesdays, which is I go live every Wednesday,
but I do it on my Patreon, which is not the easiest, but I've been figuring it out becauseyou know,
We do what we got to do.
but you know, Amber heard.

(02:32):
There's a lot that goes with it, but I think people don't realize how close they are tobeing Nazis until like, but if you laughed or you said like Amber turd, if you, know, or
one of the people who thought that's funny and that's like an okay thing, you, you're inthe wrong direction.

(02:58):
You are.
You're with your hand is in the air because I'm not
The investment and disgust and energy into degrading someone because they aren't perfectand then like use, I don't know.
It's disturbing.

(03:19):
However, when I look on and I look at the research, I see videos, cause a lot of it's I'vedone on YouTube.
I see a video from two years ago from a black woman that at that time was going, what iseverybody doing?
What is this?
This is disgusting.
There are memes, there are this.
At the time, this black woman was not swayed by group think and public, quote unquote,public opinion.

(03:43):
But if you weren't looking for that, you don't know that.
And I just think we have to look at it as everyday stuff and not call out, you know, or ifwe're going to talk about Nazi stuff, it's like.
Hitler was a guy.

(04:03):
These people are guys, Nazis were people, your people.
When you read about this stuff, you need to be identifying with all of the people, notjust the heroes.
Because that's how you become it.
we watch it cycles and cycles and Britney Spears and this because I'd rather focus on thatkind of stuff because I'm talking to white women because women are doing this to each

(04:29):
other.
Yes, misogyny is going to misogyny, but you cannot do that.
You can say, actually, I want to say something different instead of going, whoa, that's,or I would never speak up if I saw that you be one of the people.
Because when black women do it, it's somehow people say, no one says anything.

(04:52):
No one agreed.
No one stuck up for her.
That's not just not true.
But.
Cults are louder than communities.
know, there's, well, they're angrier.
I don't know.
There's like this anger.
It's vitriol, it's disgust.
With internet strangers or just strangers in general living their whole lives not touchedby you at all.

(05:17):
What is that?
Like.
I mean, the whole time I was just looking at it from the perspective of the fact thatpeople are watching two professional actors and they think they know, right?
People really believed that they knew what was going on.

(05:39):
It speaks to this bigger, just gamification, I feel like, of our society that everyoneparticipates in.
I don't know where I was going with that.
No, they will that they felt so sure of other people.

(06:03):
the studying of the drama of two people and I just remember thinking, okay, but old man,young lady, she's saying he's doing things we've all heard he does before her.

(06:26):
What?
He's powerful man in media.
She's not.
We're laughing at her?
Just those things should, but when you are in this scarcity, fear-based, like this mindsetof like, someone's gotta be in trouble.
I gotta hate someone.

(06:46):
Someone's gotta be at the forefront of badness that isn't me.
And it was millions of people, but at the same time, it wasn't millions of black women.
Yeah.
No, I mean, definitely white women are the ones responsible for where we are right now.

(07:12):
And that is.
And you can also be responsible for, know, it gives you something to realize you havepower though.
you aren't, this isn't happening necessarily to.
It's, with your help.
And when you don't say stuff, that's also part of it.

(07:33):
Inaction is an action to go, I don't want to get yelled at.
Maybe get yelled at.
I don't know.
It's like of all the things I get yelled at a lot.
Well, not as much now because yeah, I stepped away also from the place where it's like,I'm not going to the public park anymore of TikTok.

(07:55):
boy, they have found me.
The bros have found me.
But here's what I've learned.
I've learned a secret trick to going viral all the time, which is just have purple hair.
It infuriates them.
It infuriates them so much that they cannot, because I don't know if you've heard thiswhole like the blue haired liberal thing, like that's their stereotype.

(08:20):
And so I'm sitting here and I'm knitting or crafting and I have
purple hair and I'm talking about the military or like a serious topic and they're like,they just can't keep themselves from coming in to tell me how silly I am.
And I'm like, keep typing, like this is all money.
Thanks.

(08:40):
they're so.
I don't want to say the word fragile, but fragile in like a bomb, but not like a doll.
Like I say with white women, fragile like a bomb.
But like with them, it's a little different.
I don't get a lot of them because I don't think they, like I said about the white womenversus white men in a conference room, white men tend to just see me and go, ugh, too much

(09:10):
work.
God, that's a lot, I don't know, I'm nervous.
They try, it doesn't really, they're not thinking, they don't care about my gaze thatmuch.
They care about your gaze so much.
And when you go, ew.

(09:30):
or, or, know, ew at the, at the, should care.
You know, you go, oh, this isn't for you.
They don't know what to do.
And I, you know, I've experienced it with men though, you know, cause I'm a woman, youknow, and you say, you reject them.
And then all of a sudden you become this terrible.
Well, I didn't, I wouldn't like it anyway.

(09:52):
And you're ugly and you're short and like, I've, you know.
I understand, I understand, white men.
I don't know.
Well, and it's so easy to thwart them.
learned this from you by just like not giving them like now because I post a lot of stuffabout the military.

(10:16):
So now they'll be like, what rank were you?
And I just like.
I mean, they're just like, I don't answer to you or I'm like, bro, you can Google me, butI don't like they're not OK with me not like rushing to defend myself.
And it's so fun and like funny to just watch them flailing.

(10:37):
When you have the privilege and use it like towards, you know, away from that, what'sexpected, that proximity.
When I push myself, I'm openly Black, right?
If I'm loudly, honestly, unapologetically, let's say that I'm unapologetically Black and abiracial person, right?

(11:01):
And I don't say I'm biracial first.
I don't try to appease towards whiteness.
I don't try to suck up as much value from my positionality as possible.
I go, I'm black.
Like that's what I am.
And by doing that, I see the betrayal sense sometimes that white people are like, yeah,but what do you hate that you're white?

(11:27):
What?
What?
That seems silly.
I don't understand that, but it's.
making that choice that you're making to say, I'm not gonna go, not only are you not dyingyour hair blonde, you are making the active choice to be unapologetically individual.
Yeah, and like, so this is what I used to have such a hard time describing about like,white Americans reaction toward me.

(11:58):
You know, that it's always been this kind of like, well, wait, wait, aren't you Brazilian?
Like, no, I wasn't born there.
I don't have nationality there.
Like I grew up there.
so aren't you like, are you Jewish?
They like, they need me to be something.
other because otherwise the fact that I'm choosing to like foreign right it was it it'sthis kind of message that was always being told to me like daniella you can pass like you

(12:29):
can pass as a straight white christian american lady so like why would you not want to
Right, right.
And it's that, you know?
And I finally just started saying to people, like, are you kidding me?
Wasp culture is the boringest of all the cultures that I know of.
can't even, and that's, what kind of goal is that?

(12:52):
And that's why I kind of say like, grieve your goals.
We talked about it a little bit.
It's like, grieve your group goals because they're not even having fun.
They're not, let's don't rock the boat.
If you're in an unrockable boat, get off it.
Please leave it because boats are supposed to rock.
But, or don't like make a scene.

(13:12):
It's this, you have to, I keep associating also like,
This is what it's like, privilege with pickability.
Either like you can pick, you can pick, you have the choice to pick, or you can be picked.
And if you are not doing one of those two things, it's like, but what do you mean?

(13:37):
It's you're not taking advantage of your.
this thing that we're all supposed to be vying for.
And if you have it, that's where you see your value is in your ability to choose either,like I can pick what character I want to be.
I can, I have the choice to be someone who is manipulates a man because I'm pretty, getto, can pretend to do this thing.

(14:02):
I can perform this or I can do it with regular people.
I'm not sure what this privilege business, you know?
but it's picking of terrible choices.
like, it's not really choices at that point, but you don't get to be a thing.
You're so busy trying to get picked or pick or what about just, you know, picking a nap,making something, undoing it, you know, it's like this whole ride or die or no, no nap.

(14:37):
I want to bring those.
those back into the options because after a nap you realize I don't got to do any of that.
I don't think those were fun actually.
But this, the choice to step away from it is hard to explain because it's like a notthing.

(14:58):
It's hard to prove a negative.
But the people getting angry, that'll show you.
That'll show you what you're doing, right?
Because they just don't know what to do.
And the people who would go, what does white woman whisper mean?
I go, what do you think it means?
Or how'd you come up with that name?

(15:19):
No, just say it shows me.
Because they don't care what I have to say.
If you're asking me what it means, then you have other stuff you gotta work on.
And I'm just gonna help you do that by having my own fun with it and talking to everybodyelse and saying, drink.
They ask what it means,

(15:40):
Well, and it's like, it's one of those things where it's like, I'm sure you get this withwhite women, but like I get this with men where they're just like,
Did it drive?
Like, what's your name mean or asking you?
were they ask you these questions, but they're just giving away or they don't realize, youknow, like I was telling these men on my thing today, I was like, if a woman tells you

(16:07):
that you're mansplaining, listen, because of course you're not gonna know that you'redoing it.
But I know like these guys show up and they'll be like, what rank were you?
And I'm just like, nobody, nobody ever asks my husband who was lower ranking than me, bythe way, that question.
Hmm.
says he's military and they just accept it.

(16:29):
You know, so it's like, I don't know what the, like how we do that to black women, but I'msure there's a version of just like showing up and kind of like showing your ass because
you don't know that you're doing that.
Yeah.
And, and this, the explanations and I had a whole part in defensiveness, which is a tenantof white supremacy.

(16:51):
Or as I would need to be refraining from explaining just in general, right?
Especially as white people, need to self because it's like, that's what I was talkingabout, like a behavioral accents where you can't necessarily tell you have an accent
because you have been surrounded by people with the same accent, but I'm gonna tell you.

(17:12):
White people, strong accent.
And it's a lot of just passive aggressiveness.
And like you think...
I don't know, like certain questions or the way white women do the tone setting.
Yeah.
Or even the, can I ask you a question?

(17:33):
get out.
Cause it's this, give me some coddling and reassurance that no one's going to get mad atme.
Cause all I'm doing is, ugh.
Right.
Anyway, it's fine.
But once you hear it a lot, now it starts to get grating.
This next person coming up may not realize that they have this accent, that this is abehavioral accent, and it's indicative of something far more dehumanizing.

(18:03):
So when a man is explaining to you something that they have never even touched on, and so,but then you have a white woman coming up to say, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not, you know,
I'm, even the nose.
Right?
No, no, you don't understand.
I do understand.

(18:23):
That's why I'm, you know, like the context isn't in the room with us when white peoplespeak.
Something about context is so inherent to the difference between group and communitybecause you think you can just bring it in when you feel like it and white people are

(18:44):
often, especially white women, will introduce themselves and
and their credentials to why they can speak right now.
As a white woman, I already know you say it, the proof is in the speaking one, but it'salso hard to explain sometimes, but it's like, you have to believe that it exists already.

(19:07):
And when I tell you something, like that's what has to be.
It has to already come, like you know, the context.
I'm speaking to you.
I could not speak to you and you wouldn't know, but I'm choosing.
I'm choosing in this space.
I'm choosing to make a page.
I'm choosing this.
So I already know you mean well.

(19:28):
If you explain it to me one more time though, I will never speak to you again.
And you won't know why you're just going to go, I know.
And it's like, you're the victim of it.
Anyway.
Well, I mean, and that's like, you've said this to me before, but like, if a black personis explaining something to you, then like, they still care, you know?

(19:52):
And I mean, I've been seeing a lot of that even with regards to politics of black womenbeing like, nope, we're done.
Like we said we were done, and now we're done, and y'all got this world that you wanted.
Like, here you go.
Yeah, and that's it's worth finding people who are already discussing this.

(20:14):
And it's never about find the nearest black woman and anything.
There are people who are volunteering to do this work and I'm able to do it because Istarted later because I was privileged enough to have a very diverse upbringing and not a
lot of white women doing all that white woman stuff in my life because my mom protected mefrom that.

(20:34):
She used her white womanness.
to one, inform people she was around about how she was.
if they knew, they just wouldn't end up around me if they were going to not know.
She wasn't about that.
Like she'll argue anytime.
But she was white and she could, but I didn't know necessarily all this other stuff.

(20:58):
But all that to say, yeah, black people are, I'm reading books written by black women who,
And I always say, just think about what it must have taken for this black woman to getpublished.
Bell hooks, you know, even medical apartheid, what it must have taken to get thatpublished.
And so how much community knowledge went into that at that point and it's centuries.

(21:24):
Think about how long slavery lasted.
And the whole time black people were humans, the whole time.
So.
It's in the books if you want to read a book, you know, it's in the conversations, but youhave to believe it first.
You can't come in thinking I'm the first person who's going to explain to this like, thehumility is not at the root.

(21:48):
That's why I said a humility and white women didn't like it that much.
But like I made my own first.
I mean, I really think this emphasis on like, black people were there the whole time andblack people were human the whole time, right?
So even when everyone else was treating y'all like you weren't human, you were human.

(22:11):
And like, I, you know, from serving in the military, which was segregated by gender,right?
This is my little like peek into that, which was like, there were laws saying that we were
incapable of doing things as women that we clearly knew we were capable of.
But the entire dialogue just like assumed that it wasn't.

(22:38):
Right.
And so then it's like you look back, you know, like I would never think that I could askyou a question that you've never heard from another white woman, you know, like just like
Because you've been a black woman your whole life.
You have been, like you said, you were protected from some of the worst ones, but likeeven the well-meaning ones.

(23:02):
And like to be online.
Yeah.
And, and, and if you asked me something, we know each other.
That is a different type of thing, but the things that you see kind of online and we're inthis space having this conversation, right?
I have made myself open to it.
And even still, I think it's good to have that boundary of like, okay, but not allquestions are necessarily good questions.

(23:25):
And I'm not saying that there are stupid questions, but it's like time is limited.
I have access to all this.
have the conversations with the person in the room who wants to have that.
it's something, because we all, not we all, but a lot of us have this pet peeve whenyou're like listening to a public talk, right, or something, and then someone gets up and

(23:48):
they start asking a question that is like so individual instead of like, you know, you canask your question, but make it relevant to the whole group, at least like I'm pretty good
at that.
But then like people will stand up.
and they'll just go on for five minutes giving you like all this detail and all thisstuff.
And it's just like, like, why do you think you are this important in this group of thismany people that like, you feel comfortable to like make it this personalized?

(24:22):
Right?
Like you don't hear yourself.
And that's a, that's what I would, there's like a white behavioral accent.
Like you, no one's ever told you sit your ass down.
Y'all don't hear that, you know?
And it's, and I realized that you don't, and there's that right to comfort that reallyblocks so much.
And you know, this, they'd rather dishonest harmony versus honest conflict.

(24:44):
And it's like, my gosh, now you got these little toddlers growing up and they're never.
pushed for anything and then you give them leadership roles and tell them that this is thebest, like the gaslighting.
But also, at least there's a thing about knowing we were human in the whole time, right?

(25:08):
And when you have people saying they believe you aren't and at some point you go, okay,well, obviously they don't know stuff.
But if you still believe in it, you still believe that all you gotta do is prove it tothem.
And you're trying to, and I think that's where white women get stuck is they go, well,yeah, they're wrong, but maybe if we just get this mark or we show them this, or if I get

(25:30):
close to this one and it's like, no, they're still going to just use and take from you.
It's not within their goals.
And I heard the word today that I heard so many times I was listening to this white guytalk about climbing Mount Everest.
my God, he's so young.
And he said grind set.
He was like, all these influencers talk about
Grindset, ugh.

(25:53):
As a word worker, ew, ew, ew, ew.
Grindset, that's like the mentality, ew.
It's such a bad word.
And this is like the white man's thing.
What is, what
is happening?
The cosplay.
when I was in entrepreneurship.

(26:14):
was told, know, Danielle, if you're not like working weekends and like sleeping four hoursa day, like you're never gonna build your thing, right?
You gotta grind, you gotta hustle.
And I just looked at them.
I was like, I have a toddler.
I'm not gonna do that.
And yeah, it is, it is.
It's also incorrect, but it was just like.

(26:36):
I just remember the shock of this man, of me being like, no, if that's true, what you'resaying is true, then I'm just gonna take longer to build my thing.
I'm gonna choose my kid growing up and being there for them than like, and he justcouldn't understand that.

(26:56):
Anyway, I sold my book for much more money than that guy ever made with his company.
I'm saying, so we got to set the confidence.
There's like, we have comfort with confidence over competence.
Like these people don't have to show anything for it when they just have to be like, well,you'll never, no one reads this.
You mean no one, you know, who do you know?

(27:18):
Like I, the people we listen to, we have to ask ourselves why we're listening to them.
And
But that's what the cult does is take away your sense of intuition or that you candiscernment.
Instead, you're so focused on discipline and like, ooh, dedication and sacrifice andgrind.

(27:40):
What, are you cosplaying slavery?
Because that's what it feels like at this point.
That's what I'm saying to myself.
Because it's like, why you working hard, climbing Mount Everest?
Why?
Why?
the glorification of suffering, you know, which I feel like is this very white Christianidea that like, if it's hard, it's worth more, right?

(28:07):
And this gets into the whole skinniness thing, right?
And let me tell you, the other day when I just sat there and I was like, you know, you canjust eat dessert because you want to, and it's enjoyable, and you...
You don't have to feel like any guilt or weirdness.

(28:28):
You don't have to explain it.
You don't have a reason.
But like, Rebecca, I'm 37 years old.
And I just now am realizing that like, you know, you can do stuff just because it feelsgood.
Like harder doesn't mean better.
You know, sometimes harder is just faster to break yourself.

(28:51):
There is no inherent goodness to something, but when you start with the underlying lack ofa self, right?
Like you're not worthy of being unless you are doing.
Like you're already set up for this, well, something's gotta be wrong in order for this tobe good.

(29:15):
It's like, you can just be.
And that's okay.
Lazy or this get a real job.
Real.
What do you mean?
Because first it's get a job, then it's get a real job.
And what does a real job mean?
It means work for a person that I kind of respect and make sure it sucks for yousometimes.

(29:45):
I don't know.
It can't be.
My, look, my husband is a lovely, wonderful human.
He's also a white man.
And even though I have bought him an airplane with my words, he would still be comfortablethat I just had a quote, real job at any time.

(30:09):
Like that there was just like a guarantee paycheck.
And I'm like, he took 400 signed books to the post office for me today.
Like, but in his mind, I still don't have a real job.
right?
And even that's incorrect, right?
Even our understanding of what a secure safe job is.

(30:29):
Spotify laid off like 80 % or 30 % of the way.
I don't remember what the numbers were, but like even in these top jobs, you could beworking for Twitter, right?
And then boom, or you're working for.
husband worked for the army for 20 years and was supposed to have a retirement anddisability paychecks for the rest of his life.

(30:50):
And now they're going after that, right?
Like that could just be undone also.
So it's like not even like based in reality.
So that's what I remember realizing like, my God, our ideas of safety are just sold to usthrough this like certainty, comfort and control.

(31:10):
And like, if you just get those things together, a stable job, a secure job, but that justmeans we'll go on forever is predictable, but it's not.
And even if it is predictable, the environment's not.
So like, what if money stops being something that works?
Better to be able to, you know how to now turn your words into money.

(31:32):
That's, you know how to create something.
You don't know how to just answer to someone, but that's what security is, is being ableto say, someone else got it.
That's literally what saying.
taught, you know?
I, like you say this about like human being and human doing.

(31:53):
And I like, I've never been able to completely explain it to people, but like this is whatI love about naked places.
Like nobody walks up to you and says, what do you do?
Or like tells you that they're a lawyer.
Like you just have human being conversations.
And it like, to me, it makes it so clear that like our

(32:15):
clothes are armor, our clothes are messaging, right?
Like who we are, what our status is.
And we live in such a transactional world and country actually and culture that it's likethe first thing you lead with is what do you do?
And that's what makes I think people so uncomfortable.

(32:38):
And I get this all the time.
They're like, what's your real job?
And I'm like, do y'all not see me working 12 hours a day making all kinds of money doingthis stuff?
It's like, no, what do you believe?
Like, what do you care about that?
But also get out of my face.
Like, don't talk to me.
Maybe that's why I'm not so social.
Like some man, what did you do?

(33:00):
No, thank you.
And I just said, no, thank you.
Because I don't know what else to say.
Because I don't want to talk to this person.
I did not consent to this type of conversation.
And also, and that's white behavior, I think.
Asking what you do.
is a little bit white because you don't exist in a community where this person could justbe the cousin of someone and that's why they're there.

(33:24):
like, you don't, maybe you get into what they do, but also if you do, they will ask youhow much you get paid.
We talk about those things.
You know, the first rule of the club is don't talk about white club.
We also talk about pay and religion and other.
Well, and that's another, you I just wrote this part about weaponized secrecy in Cultingof America.

(33:48):
And I'm like, this is just another, don't talk about your salary, right?
That's like one of the examples that I use.
So like, that benefits your corporate overlords.
That is the only people that it benefits.
And it was actually so weird going from the military, because that's like one thing aboutthe military is everyone knows how much money everybody makes.

(34:11):
Yeah, but do they talk?
according, yeah, it is much more discussed in that culture.
So you have much less posturing, right?
Like, yeah, you have like the officer car, right?
The fancy car, but like, everyone knows you're making $60,000 a year, Lieutenant.
And so unless you came in with significant money, like, we know how much money you haveleft if you have a $1,500 mother car paint, right?

(34:38):
You know, and so it,
did get talked about a lot more, which then allowed for people in typically less powerfuldemographics like women to get together and be like, hey, this is not correct.
And then it was just so weird going out of that and into corporate America and just like,nobody knows how much anybody makes and like what qualifications were for the job.

(35:10):
such a it's such a it's not real none of it's real but and then they talk about puttingout fires I remember literally thinking there was a fire one time the first time and then
I look at it because why are you talking about fire we you know the commercial division ofsome like um caught fire

(35:35):
this when I, so I got out of the military where I was an intelligence officer thatdeployed twice.
And then I went to work for Microsoft retail loss prevention.
And at one point, and my boss was a former special operations guy in the military.
And so then at one point, one of the people was like, no, this is an emergency.
This is life and death.

(35:56):
Because we're talking about like, what you would do if this happened or whatever.
And we both were just like.
Uhhhh...
No...
But this goes to a greater thing that I see in America, which I just call missionizing,weaponizing the mission.
So you look at Walmart's mission statement.

(36:19):
And what it should be is providing low-cost products to everyday Americans.
But what it is, is providing low-cost products to everyday Americans.
to transform their lives.
And I always say it's in the transformation of their lives that they then exploit all yourlabor.

(36:43):
And they teach this in entrepreneurship.
You sit around and you think of a mission that you can get people to buy into.
there's all these books about how you too at your plant that makes sticky notes canconvince your people that like,
Their work is life or death.

(37:03):
And that's how you're supposed to motivate them.
And so here I am studying organizational psychology where we're basically being told this.
And I'm like, but this is just cult tactics.
Literally, every 10 years you gotta have an apocalypse.
You get everyone dedicated again and then you keep everyone running and going so hard thatthey don't question what's going on or why the apocalypse never actually comes.

(37:29):
And you know what?
And those are real jobs.
The ones you're describing are the real ones because for some reason, and this is also whyblack women are never culture fit because we go to these jobs and we take people at their
word when they say, well, no, whatever.
We think humans are humans and these jobs say, no, you're not.

(37:51):
And we're like, yeah, we are.
And also you promised me this much money.
Why haven't I had it?
And everybody else is uncomfortable because we just brought up money.
but y'all get your races?
And then I was like, and we don't know that you're not, because the unspoken rule is don'ttalk about stuff.
So when do we learn it?
Because, but it really, that's how you, but you were all suffering.

(38:16):
And so we're supposed to suffer and then feel grateful that we're able to suffer underthis leadership.
And then also not feel like we are entitled to this money because something, dedicationand stuff.
But we have community and people counting on us and that's why we're here.

(38:39):
So give me my paycheck.
No, I'm not going to lunch with you because I could use that hour to talk to my, whoevermy community person is that I talk to at lunch.
But it's like, that's not, don't know we're joining a cult.
and then we get kicked out the...
I got quiet fired from my retail job and I was told that like, you know, if you haddedicated more time to having lunch with people, then like, you would probably still have

(39:07):
a job right now.
And like, first of all, first of all, that's cray.
Second of all, I would spend my lunch hour pumping because I had a new baby, you know,like.
How dare you, when you on your off hours not come to the happy hour, we're in show of theand with a smile and without your partner that doesn't go here because that's

(39:28):
uncomfortable for everybody to realize you're a whole human and don't have a social mediaoutside of here because we said so, you know, and
thought it was just the craziest thing when it became like, don't post pictures ofyourself having fun in college because jobs are gonna discriminate against you.

(39:51):
Like, what?
First of all, we're putting Supreme Court justices in who just boys will be boys.
It was in college, I was drunk, right?
But like, what?
Why are we judging kids in college for having lives?
And this was so true, by the way, for as an officer and especially like a woman officer inthe US military, like you could not basically ever imply that you had a life outside of

(40:25):
the office.
You know, so your one job is to make them forget you're a woman.
So they'll let you do your job.
And then like, don't
Don't have anything, right?
Don't be quirky, don't have friends, definitely don't show up to a unit event with someonewho's not gonna fit.

(40:46):
It was just so much.
Don't like make yourself, don't draw attention to yourself, which is a crazy thing as agoal.
Like the self hurting that you have to do, like disappear, don't exist.

(41:11):
because that's burdensome.
Don't, because I was talking to my friend about this and she said, you know, they saydon't cause a scene.
And I remember thinking, or don't make a scene.
Just thinking about that as a phrase, what?
Don't make a, we're already here.
We're in a scene.
We're we're a scene.
Don't make it a dramatic scene.
mean, don't, what they're really saying is don't be seen, which is a different scene, butthat's really what it is.

(41:39):
It's like.
They say don't be seen or heard.
They also mean don't be seen.
Don't be here, please.
Unless it's too soon.
also the problem with any kind of culture that encourages conformity is that the peoplethat do stand out or can't conform when they want to are always gonna be more oppressed.

(42:01):
So like in the army, we literally have a saying, right?
All you have to do to be successful in the army is be in the right place in the right timein the right uniform and never volunteer for anything, right?
Like literally.
do not stand out, like that is what we are saying.
But so then because that's the culture, then as women we're wrong from day one, because westand out.

(42:24):
And so it's like just this constant cycle.
your apologies for existing.
And let me tell you, in studying organizational psychology, at least three times that Ican think of, we had the debate, a debate, whether or not it is appropriate to bring

(42:47):
emotions to the workplace.
And it would get polarized, right?
And like, first of all,
It's not a choice to get to bring emotions to work, right?
Like we don't just have an off button for emotions, but like the way in 2023 people werestill like, huh.

(43:13):
real emotional in that conversation about whether or not they should be able to bringemotions in, especially the ones who are saying, no, you're not supposed to bring emotions
in.
They got emotional.
and the ones who were saying no, like you could always just, they don't mean emotions,they mean drama, right?
They mean just like don't exist or have any needs like outside of the context of your job.

(43:41):
drama.
Don't cause a scene.
The drama.
Don't exist here in a way I can't predict and control and makes me feel comfortable andlike, and comfortable means in control and certain of what's gonna happen versus a world
of safety would have none of those things.

(44:02):
If you really wanted to be safe and secure, you would practice what we're may other theysay, conflict, acceptance.
Resolution, shush, shush.
Like they're not even close.
Have we resolved?
We can't.
So anyway, conflict acceptance, critical thinking and compassion are the seeds of actualsafety.

(44:25):
Having compassion for other people, seeing other people as humans first and not having togive all these justifications of why it's okay to torture people and.
harm them and punish them for existing in a way you aren't familiar with?

(44:45):
Because we're not even getting into whether things are right or wrong.
like, the rules aren't necessary in a community.
Rules aren't really required with adults.
But if you assume everyone's going to like, I think narcissists tend to think

(45:06):
you know, everyone thinks like them or the best way to think is that everyone thinks likethem and they're all out to get you.
like most of us aren't.
But I think there's there's a lot that we could learn, but I do think that white womenhave to realize that they're the harm that is coming to them as a result of.

(45:29):
The inaction, not just like, you have it easier or, you know,
Men like you more.
It's like, no, no, no.
There's so much else out here where in a community, so it makes me think of girl groups,right?

(45:49):
Groups of girlfriends, right?
There's a difference when you have community and when you don't, and when you go out.
And I listen to these girl trip stories and there's a lot of unspoken rules within theblack community, black women especially.
We go out together, we leave together.
No one goes off, no one gets lost.
No one just winds up with the dude and then we go out together, we leave together.

(46:13):
I don't care if we're fighting and you're rude to me.
And it's not just because that's the rules.
It's because we have a community to answer to.
If I leave with you and I come back without you, I have my community to answer to and myother friends.
Cause I go, well, you're going to leave me too?
There's consequences.
There's context and also community policing that could do a lot more than

(46:37):
relying on the rules and calling some outside group of people to come in and, I don'tknow, fix, protect and serve.
I don't know what all that's.
also like this thwarts cults and manipulation, right?
So there was once a high level former Scientology recruiter who was asked like, what's thenumber one thing that doesn't work when you try to recruit people or like what stops

(47:04):
people from joining?
And he was like, 100 % it's right in the beginning when a friend is like, no, we're notdoing this.
Let's go.
Right.
Versus this like,
too, okay?
you know, leaving your friend behind, being able to go off and just do your own thing.
And that takes conflict acceptance.

(47:24):
You have to be like girlfriends.
You know, you can say, what are you stupid?
And they don't really mean that you don't take that personally.
And there's this, the underflow of belief in that relationship where I know I can say toyou something that's not going to make you feel so great or something.

(47:48):
I know you really love this.
I know it's not like.
well, she really liked it.
And I feel kind of hands off and if it gets really bad or well, we'll see.
No, you have to care enough and have enough compassion and like critical thinking to beable to trust also your friend who pulls you out.
But I do see a lot of that in whiteness where it's kind of like, well, she really likedthat.

(48:14):
think it also just comes from like, like even when I hear you talking about it, it alsoseems like it comes from growing up with these women and girls, like policing each other
from the time you're young.
And I don't, like not policing each other, but like protecting each other, right?
Like having each other's backs from the time when you're young.

(48:35):
And I don't feel like white women like have that, you know?
I mean, one of...
the things is we're so effectively isolated as women, like in our little castles and awayfrom community.
and you're compared to each other a lot.
It's how you guys all, you know, all wearing the same thing, Alabama rush type of thing.

(49:00):
Whereas I think in like a black girl group, you can have different styles and we can bedifferent people.
We may wear similar things.
did, I do have a picture of me and quite a few of my girlfriends all in black crop topsand the high-waisted jeans.
But like, it was easy to go out with, but it's...
Yeah, there's

(49:23):
Like it's intuitive because there's a family as the community, not as the like group youbelong to.
just makes me think of this.
I don't know if this is a white woman only question, but it's definitely a white womanthing to do to like text a group ahead of time and be like, what are we wearing?

(49:44):
And it comes from this fear of standing out, right?
Like heaven forbid I show up overdressed or underdressed.
And so this is such a thing with me.
And I actually told my
women friends at some point.
was like, nope, don't ask me.
Like, I'm always going to show up wearing whatever I want to and I'm usually overdressedand I'm fine with that, right?

(50:08):
And it's like, but it's this fear of standing out.
Yeah, I had that face.
And I think with my friends, sometimes we would go like, okay, what are you wearing?
Right?
There's a little bit different.
It was just like, I just, so maybe think about what a vibe I could go with.
And I see it so different.
It's like opportunity, right?
It's, I would never wear whatever my friend is wearing.

(50:30):
She's going to send me something.
It's not what I'm going to wear, but it, I don't know.
It helps me feel like where we're going to be out or something.
But I do, I see, I remember going out.
from North Jersey when I eventually went out in Hoboken, me and my friends know, was like,oh my gosh, Hoboken was, there's a lot of white people there.
And the way we would see these girls so drunk, all of them, none of them was in charge.

(50:58):
There were some, how, who was letting you guys go?
And now we're taking care of these girls.
And I, you know, the girls in the bathroom type thing, it was like, well, let's see whereyour best friends are.
We always are fine, but it's like, remember having that, me and my girlfriend at the timewe talk about it, still, hovokin'.
And the guys were sloppy, all of that.

(51:19):
the comfort level, I couldn't believe it, that all of them were just out of control andfelt okay leaving.
don't...
survival instincts on zero.
But we were looking out for them because I see them as human, not just like, they'reweird.

(51:45):
And we're watching, we're looking.
I mean, I'm not gonna take them home.
I'm cult or something, I don't know.
But you do what you can when you're around because you feel responsibility is okay.
But you have responsibility for...
what you do, responsibility over the rules.
I think that's really where things get, and where America focuses is on rights and notresponsibilities of people with power.

(52:12):
They're like, well, the parental rights to do this, you're right to have this firearm,you're right to this, you're right to that, as opposed to what?
What do you mean?
And then once you even start talking about that, you're already in a failed position to belike, my rights, your rights.
I exist.

(52:33):
That's enough.
I have to earn my rights.
From who?
That guy with the bib?
They haven't ever worked ever a real job.
Ever, ever.
They do papers and they're like, hmm, papers.
Here's my papers.

(52:53):
even, you know, this even goes down to like what's considered rights.
I mean, technically in the US, we don't have the right to live.
We're supposed to have the right to life, but we don't have a healthcare system.
So like, we don't, right?
It's, that's what I'm saying to even be having that conversation.
I remember once listening to, you know, it's a very, some audio of a guy who said, he wastalking to this black guy and he said, well, we gave you your rights and you know, I can't

(53:24):
be mad.
That guy said, you, honey, you think you can give me my freedom and my right to exist?
You think it is, my life is yours to give to me?
Random man?
That's the problem.
So we were talking about rights.
It's like, I wrote up here, was like, yeah, rights as opposed to what's.

(53:48):
And that's such a weird word to use.
And not to disparage the civil rights movements and things like that, but it's like, whyare we asking them for permission?
I think that's my problem.
We spent this whole time with people going, no, you're not human, you're not human, you'renot human.
Why are we asking?
The ooze people.

(54:09):
to not only change how they feel about every other type of human, but also be in charge ofall of those other humans and still be responsible.
They're responsible.
They are never talking about responsibilities.
An actual leader leads.
They do the thing at first.

(54:29):
They walk into that dangerous building first.
The leader doesn't tell you how to walk in and go, go, go run in that building right now.
You know, I want to see if we have enemies, want to see, sorry, I want to see Donald Trumpfight whoever he got problems with.

(54:52):
don't want to be involved.
We could put it on the news.
I'm sure the ratings would be high.
Mike Tyson just fought some guy, some young white guy, and it had a lot to do with racism.
I'm not sure I wasn't watching.
like, if he got problems with someone, he should handle it like we handle it.

(55:17):
Fisticuffs.
I'm just seeing it and I just like.
I think that would be better entertainment than the news we got.
Oh my god.
You can't.
It's just, you can't believe anything anymore.
It's just...

(55:38):
I don't know, I'm gonna end this where I started, which is like, I've had a literal onemillion questions today asking me what I think about Elon Musk's Nazi salute.
And I'm like, why?
But like, why do you need me to tell you what I think about this salute, right?

(55:58):
Like it, I don't know, I'm just.
that, like that should be one obvious, but like that's something happens and you go toyour nearest like.
And it's like, felt safe enough.
He felt safe enough in that crowd to do this.

(56:22):
And what I think is like, this is America.
And it was at the inauguration.
this was, you know what?
You know what?
It's like you started it.
I just...

(56:43):
all of the stuff is being said out loud now.
And it is, you know, I think we're on the beginning of looking like dictatorship eraBrazil.
You know, this increasing stratification between the haves and the have nots.
I remember.
when I moved to the US when I was 14 from Brazil, like the most shocking thing was thatthere were just large four five bedroom houses on the streets.

(57:12):
Because like, you didn't have that there.
You had walls around anything nice.
You know, like we're already starting to see slum villages and places like Oregon andSeattle.
And like,
some hope for the, like for the information of it all.
For like the kids, because there are so many people, not just kids, not just kids, thenon-voters.

(57:37):
I don't think, I think we do a lot of focusing on voters, which are a large group ofpeople.
But the amount of people that did not vote, it's not that they did not vote because they,you know, for many reasons, felons, right?

(57:59):
These aren't people who don't have resources or aren't resourceful, aren't.
powerful, impactful people.
And in fact, I think it's people who have divested their sense of self and hope in thefuture from the government because they've seen what they've done.

(58:22):
You know, this is so honest right now where we are, I think.
I don't think it's our government being something it's never been.
think we're seeing it now and we can accept it.
believe it, consider it, and do something different.
We don't have to.
Like, you know, we have all this information, information age, and we know so much aboutnarcissism now.

(58:46):
At least as far as I feel, like we know so much more.
And the way to prevent being enticed and brought into a narcissistic dynamic is to knowabout it first, to just know about them, to have awareness of the tactics and the
patterns.
does most of the job of preventing your induction into it.

(59:08):
So we do that with cults.
We can do that with cultic systems.
I'm trying to do it with racism.
And that's kind of an avalanche of things that we can maybe just start believing in peopleagain and not in the rules, because the rules aren't the things, aren't the resources,
aren't the people.

(59:28):
The rules have never cared about Black women.
Black women have never really cared about the rules.
And those guys who we're all like, what they want us to pay attention to and where theywant your attention, we have to also be aware of.
Why do they want you looking over there and focused on that and these white guys withterrible goals when there are so many other people?

(59:51):
And if you spend your attention, you'll be less.
miserable if you focus kind of where those in community are.
That's how I get out of those pits.
you know, I had sent you something and just also thinking about suicide rates and reallylooking at what that fact is, Black women are the least respected, least protected, most

(01:00:18):
educated, least likely to commit suicide demographic in this country.
That is information worth
really, really thinking about.
Yeah, I love that video.
I'm so glad you brought it up.
It was especially interesting amongst veterans, which is a high population of suicidalideology and still you have incredibly low rates amongst black women.

(01:00:46):
And it's like, that's not coincidence.
That's community and that's purpose beyond your position.
That's not like what you do and purpose beyond your performance of this thing.
And that's why we're not great to work with.
Yeah, because what do you mean?
Like that's all that's a matter.
You know, how am I perceived is not everything because there is community within us in ourexistence, in our ability to.

(01:01:15):
to be there at Perseus, but that's also what drives you and you just don't, it's not asharmful to the soul as something like whiteness and privilege and pickability is.
And I just, I'm really, I just sit with that and it's like, especially in the military orin like cults in general, there's like high suicide ideation and attempts.

(01:01:38):
And, but black women aren't necessarily the cult people, right?
So.
and I think it ties to the masking, right?
Like I think that's where the suicidal ideology comes from.
It ties to this constant, constant requirement to tamp down who you are.
But kind of, I think the, you know, one of the benefits as it were for black women islike, you knew you weren't gonna fit already.

(01:02:06):
So you're not trying.
Right?
Whereas white women, like, like, cause that's one of the things I keep hearing and keepsaying is that like, I hope that white women are going to wake up now and realize that
like, they hate us too.
Right?
Like we are not like, they hate us too.
We are not gonna fit.

(01:02:28):
And so just like giving up on that.
I mean, I have not had one second of suicidal ideation once I started being myself andfiguring out like,
who I was and what I wanted and not trying to like fit myself into another system.
You don't need to be improving yourself because you're fine as it is.

(01:02:50):
You, you believe long because you are not because you provide, not because you produce oryou perform.
You just are here here under all the odds and circumstances, but this system will tellyou.
So what are you here for?
What do you want to be?
What do want to do?
What do you want to, what are you doing next?
How are you, how are you showing up?

(01:03:12):
But if you feel like
I don't need to explain myself to you guys.
Just like we talk about with the guys and what, what's the school did you go?
What is your white woman whisper?
How do you cause I've been here and I'm doing it.
I'm here.
Is that not enough?
Like, and if you don't like it, okay.

(01:03:34):
Pretend you never saw it.
You know, that's just another person pretend you never experienced this and you'll be justfine.
I did, I say this, some guy, I forget what the exact question was, but it was like,where's the, let's see your whatever.
And I was like, what makes you think you can do?
He's like, well, it goes to your credibility.
And I was like, sir, the 200,000 people here watching me goes to my credibility.

(01:03:58):
This stack of actual books that you see me sending out to people goes to my credibility.
And that was, I think, a moment for me, and I definitely like.
thank you for this, where it was like, because I have the credentials, I have the things,and in the past, I would have been like, here's my, and now I'm just like, I don't care.

(01:04:21):
I don't care that they think that I'm just making up whatever, like, I'm here, I know whatI'm doing, I know what I'm worth, I know how much money I'm making, so like, bye.
Right.
I can straighten my hair and that brings me a little bit closer, but so what?
Or, you know, people would say like, we wrote this out so nicely, da, da, da, da, da.

(01:04:44):
Well, it doesn't matter.
The narcissist is gonna be mad that you even had the nerve to do it.
So it doesn't matter how nice or what you could have said or you didn't, you can't expectnormalcy from this system that only wants you to be kind of begging.
for something, something all the time.
And when you're not begging and say, well, I don't know what to do.

(01:05:07):
It makes them very uncomfortable.
And that's okay too.
You can say, I know, I know this is different for you.
You're used to the thing.
And that took time for me.
I wanted to write something for like, you know, to publish for something special becausefor different reasons, I wanted it so that I could tell someone, you know, in my life.

(01:05:29):
I did this, so look, now I'm valid.
This is my credential, because I was anointed by this organization that isn't a person,because they've other people.
And once I realized that that's why I was doing it, I decided not to do it.
I just did other stuff, because it's like, I realized once I told that person, I wasposted by this, they would go,

(01:05:56):
Okay.
It was, it's never gonna do the thing I want it to do if it's get validation and theofficial stamp of goodness from whoever, you know, your job isn't gonna become a real job
to anybody who wants it to be suffering and sacrifice.
It's never gonna be.
I don't think I'm ever gonna have a real job, but for a long time I really thought, well,it's this or, you know, if I can't make this work, whatever that means.

(01:06:25):
I'll have to go get a real like, and that sounded like death to me.
Literally sounds like, like harm.
And what is any of that?
And it would mean working at a co like doing nothing impactful.
I don't think my audience wants that.
I remember I used to be like, if you guys don't support me, I'm going to have to go get ajob.

(01:06:46):
And then I won't be here because I'll be suffering under some man.
You know, you don't have the energy you.
and that's on purpose.
And you can't have a social media account and you can't have...
and cults want you tired and busy, you know, because then that's the whole point.
Then you're not thinking of ways to crash the system.

(01:07:10):
So.
Yeah.
And so I want to encourage you though also to, you know, remember that.
they're gonna keep coming to you for like doomsday-ish, because this is like prime, youknow?
And I think that's interesting.
I wanna like keep note on it.
Like what do white people do?
Because they don't come to me necessarily with the, okay, what about good groups?

(01:07:33):
Because I've been so fascinated by you, know, having that be the answer to you.
I can't believe that.
Because when I think about, you know, what your work is, I'm just.
It's just opportunity to learn more and connect more.
It's not like, okay, what's so that whole thing is very white.

(01:07:55):
Like, so what you're saying is, or so.
And it's even the the apocalypsia right now.
So people really, they want me to confirm that like, my gosh, the sky is falling, youknow, like where, and I find it very calming to hear you just be like, like this is what

(01:08:18):
it is.
This is what we have been.
They're just saying it out loud right now.
And it's very commodifiable to, you know, it makes a lot of money to have you fearful andwatching the news and watching for the latest thing.
And then you're tired and focused and you're not looking at the black women who this wholetime have said, yeah, this may happen, but at least we, you know, have the honest truth

(01:08:40):
and we know what we're dealing with.
And we're calling the bluff of these adultier people up at the top.
They don't, they're just moving at a whim.
You say you like them, they'll be like, okay, I'll do whatever you want.
We need to know that.
We need to know that this was all the elders of the cult were not some special anointedbeings.

(01:09:02):
They're just dudes who have been around and know how to work the system.
Politic, as you will.
What is that?
It's just, you know, people peopling and, you know, a couple black women in charge couldreally change so much.
but you're not going to get that if you're so focused and so tired, exhausted, depleted,defeated.

(01:09:27):
those things haven't happened.
A couple of black women, you know, have done, have done a lot, with a little, and we haveso much information and power as people.
I could never have this platform back in the day.
The ancestors would dream of this.
So for me, I can't, you know, really give into some of that stuff sometimes.

(01:09:48):
Cause I'm like.
And that's even been a thing here in my little corner.
It's like, yeah, Donald Trump's the president, but also Marilyn just elected our firstblack woman senator.
And I'm so excited about that and like what she brings to our community, right?
And it's like, and this is another thing I've been telling people with all the apocalypsiaand stuff, right?

(01:10:11):
That I'm like, the people that have always been fighting this power are still fighting,right?
AOC is not just gonna sit down and let the Republicans win.
And that whole group of women of color in the Senate, Senate, House, House, that are justlike always questioning, right?

(01:10:33):
And always asking.
I keep using this example because people are like, the military is gonna turn their gunson America.
And I'm like, do you think, do you really think the Black,
woman sergeant who's in charge of the weapons room is gonna open that for you to go tolike no

(01:10:55):
I'm saying and be prepared to have her back.
like, look for those opportunities instead of looking for all the problems, because thatis literally like what our new system wants is for you to be and to come with like the
cognitive ease with which a scary thought can come forward is kind of part of their thing.

(01:11:16):
It versus for me, I can think of so many just nice moments of black women just being womenand that
is like self-energizing.
And I've been working on this term, what I've been calling, so I'm sharing it here forfirst, like the solar system, but with like a soul, like my solar system and different and

(01:11:37):
giving different aspects of my being, they're just do.
And everyone's got their own solar system and the universe is big and the stars are dead,but I can still see them.
And those are like the ancestors type of thing.
And like they impact my life now and I can.
learn from it, even though it's not necessarily happening.
But it's, and also, I don't know, expanding universe?

(01:11:59):
that's a lot, but I'm still here.
And you have so much that you can just like do within your own experiences, but know thatthat's also including all those humans around you that are mad and stuff.
So like the loudest people might be people that scare you, but that's on purpose.
So as mad as you are, as angry as you are,

(01:12:20):
Think about me, I'm just a random person out here, remembering that there's millions of usand Gen Z and people who were in prison and don't wanna talk about stuff with white
people.
There's a lot more of us than there are of them, but they obviously would not want you toknow that.

(01:12:46):
They don't want us to be talking.
I think, you know, really, I'm so excited for your chapter for the book because I thinkthat part of what we're going through right now is this problem.
It's like all of our groups, which mostly were built by white people in this country arebreaking, right?
Our groups and our systems, and they are breaking, right?
Like the oligarchy is here, but that's like gonna force us to actually learn more aboutcommunity.

(01:13:15):
Right, like one of the things I've been saying is like, oh, if a revolution actually comesor like for any reason you're fighting the American government, we have the most high-tech
spy network in the world.
So what does that mean?
Like the way to beat that?
And I said that on my live this morning.
I'm like, go find black women who have been doing this work in community, communityorganizing, in-person, offline, right?

(01:13:44):
Because.
that's gonna be the way that we're gonna have to like learn and survive.
Yeah, I use the acronym once tapped.
There are people doing that because I heard a lot of like, well, what do we, and we justgot to, there are people doing that.
They're probably black women, but you have to know that, go find that because that's notwhat's going to be put on the news.

(01:14:12):
That's not what's going to be put in your face.
I try to kind of sneak in there that we try to put.
black women in your face and it's like, use the crochet and the dog and the stuff just totry to make it okay, get white women to see me.
But it's, cause it's not like it's not there, but you're kind of trained to not believeblack women or to assume when they're talking about something, doesn't have to do with

(01:14:36):
you.
You can't really learn from it.
That's a, you know, and she's talking to, it's gold in there.
You just have to know that look like.
slow down enough to say, okay, why do they want my attention right now focused on this?
How can I do something different?

(01:14:58):
And it's really just find some black women.
And that's what I only say that because that's what I've done almost every time I've beenwanting to lose it.
And then I read something by Stacey Abrams, Lead From The Outside was one of my first onesthat was just like, oh, I can't complain.
Stacey Abrams is doing this there with those people.
All right, I can do it on the internet.

(01:15:21):
But yeah, I do encourage the not to lose hope.
Yeah, see it as something we're a part of, not something happening to us.
thing about the apocalypse is it makes you not do anything, right?
Like if we all knew the world was ending in 20 minutes, we would just sit down and hugeach other, right?

(01:15:43):
We wouldn't do anything.
So the people that want the chaos, because chaos always benefits coercive control, likethey want you freaking out, whether that's about the robots are coming, right?
AI or...
Yeah.
the left right now freaking out like it's the end of the world.
It's like, because then you're not going and finding the black women who are leading thiswho are already doing this, you're just going, what can I do?

(01:16:12):
I gotta start something.
gotta, cause no one's, it just started now.
The panic is just starting now that I found out about it.
But it's like, remember, remember when I said 400 years of enslavement?
Right?
You're, you gotta chill.
Like who should be most afraid?
Who is most afraid?

(01:16:32):
Who's actually protected right now?
Who's not protected right now?
Like people are poor and homeless right now.
Right now.
dying in the street right now.
this, like, it's almost kind of selfish to be like, what's coming, you know?
Like, it's not, like, have we seen outside?
We needed to do something a long time ago.

(01:16:53):
It's like, it got this far for us to just, for white women or white people, hopefullywhite women.
It took two Trumps, wanna say.
It took two of these.
you know, I mean, I hope along with you that this is what it takes for us to really wakeup and, you know, wake up to the point even like what I keep thinking as you're saying

(01:17:21):
this stuff that like we are not in charge of the solution.
We are almost certainly not going to Katniss Everdeen America, right?
no, we gotta give up the Katniss condition for sure.
No, no, it's okay to be an extra.
But I don't think that's a whole other thing.

(01:17:42):
It's like the specialness that you want.
If you felt good enough in your sense of self in your solar system, you wouldn't need tofeel like everyone's son.
You'd be your own son.
The soul is the sun and the earth is my brain.
That's what I got so far as I'm working on it.
you know, sol is sun in Spanish or Portuguese.

(01:18:03):
S-O-L.
Yeah, so Latin, so yeah.
You can tie that in very easily, yeah.
out so well.
I don't know so much.
It's it's solar and the soul and I'm just saying it and you know.
I love that.
So I say this to people, like when we go hopping until I think until we realize that wedon't need to be the center of the solar system.

(01:18:30):
We don't always need to be the most important doing the most important thing.
my gosh, someone on one of my homeschooling posts left a comment that just said, one ofthe benefits of going to public school is you learn that you don't have to be the center
of every conversation.
And it was golden, right?
is with?
I, with cults, I describe it as like the process of deconstructing from cults is we haveto become like less narcissistic and more selfish, right?

(01:19:01):
So like less narcissistic because we are like in this system suffering, right?
Sacrificing ourself, but all because it makes us look good and feel good, right?
Inside this system.
But then we don't know a goddamn thing about self care.
or actually taking care of ourselves.
And when I hear you just being like, calm down, sit down, there's time.

(01:19:24):
Cause you have to heal yourself first.
And that's what black women in the books will tell you.
And that's what I told me.
And that's why I tell white women is it, you literally need to heal yourself first.
All about love and bell hooks.
like, you can't love someone before you, but I realized white women are taught, you know,the opposite.

(01:19:45):
like, if you love, you're loving other people, doesn't, someone had said the acronym joy,said Jesus, others than yourself.
And that's,
I couldn't...
I almost...
and others and you, what a wonderful way to spell joy.
like, way to spell it.

(01:20:05):
You are last if you are a good person.
That is not, ew, that's so bad.
I mean, I described this in Children of God, like in the cult, literally, like you had noself, right?
So if you ever got a compliment, there was only one accepted response, which was, it'sonly Jesus, right?
It's only Jesus.
So then I described my own, my own like decade and a half after the cult, it was like,well, because I had internalized that growing up, right?

(01:20:34):
That I'm worth this without Jesus.
then when I rejected Jesus, then I had to spend 15 years trying to prove that I wassomething.
And actually, one of the reasons that people always found me so annoying is because I'dalways present all my credentials in order to be accepted.

(01:20:55):
And once I realized, no, I don't need to prove that I belong here.
attention of someone who feels I have to prove my worthiness of their attention.
Yeah.
If I have to prove my deserve-iveness, then I don't want to be here.

(01:21:16):
And that's another reason you don't give credentials.
Cause it's like, ill, like the fact that you would even ask means I don't want this.
But what you were saying about like being more selfish and less narcissistic is so likeI've been saying you need to center yourself.
so you don't center yourself.
And to me it makes sense, but I know that's the same words over and over again.

(01:21:38):
But to me that's what you have to do.
You need to center yourself.
Where are you?
Who are you?
What's going on?
So you don't up in someone's business.
needs to be in the musical in the last song.
Like you need to center yourself so you don't center yourself.
because like, because there's such a difference, like I said, and, and you know what,that's so good, because I was saying last time, it's like very gestury for me, because

(01:22:05):
like, otherwise, you end up centering yourself like this, and you like put yourself in thecenter and start pointing outwards and creating a center of other people, versus just like
being in the center, and kind of just speaking from a centered place, when your ownconversation.
You don't have jump into other people's lives and start being like, well, I think, and ifit were me, if it were me's get out of here.

(01:22:30):
If it were, I'm just saying all you had to do all that stuff is narcissism versus well,you know, I do it too.
We're all here together.
We.
I love that.
That was my first sent to yourself.
So you don't send to yourself.
I was like, as I read it down, I thought, but I feel like I get it.

(01:22:50):
And if I get it.
is good.
I have this one that I did in my TED Talk where I say the process of finding your processis a process.
I think the repetition makes your point, yeah.
like that.
And I am a very like a verbal processor too.
So sometimes you have to hear it, like reading it is one thing and then like saying it,sometimes it just feels good to say certain things.

(01:23:15):
And I don't know if that's my proletariat or not, but like, I'm just like certain wordsjust feel so good.
Like I can't get over love overwhelm.
Cause it kind of feels like a song, like versus love bombing just.
I like what it does, who it centers.
So you center yourself.
So you don't center yourself and be like.

(01:23:37):
You are being overwhelmed and that's what matters not the action of the person that's likelove bombing you.
Yeah, categorizing them.
Are they abusive?
Are they not abusive?
How do you feel?
Like, do you feel abused?
That's enough.
Let's talk about that.
Get out.
like I always say like I've never been asked the question in good faith is this a cult andthen found like nothing there concerning right because like if you're asking that question

(01:24:02):
like you you know you've been experiencing something that doesn't feel good to you and solike that's what matters.
Yeah.
I think that I wrote today, community reduces cultability.
And I think I like cultability because it kind of sounds like culpability, but it's not.
But also like it reduces your cultability.

(01:24:25):
And that I care more about that than labeling a group of coal or is it, or what'stechnically the difference.
But like, I want to make you less able to be called by saying, Hey, okay.
All right.
I know, but see how we've done this hundreds of years.
Let's something different.
And the community can come in and go, I'm going to hold your hands while I say this.

(01:24:47):
You got a booger?
We need a tissue.
Okay.
We're going to, we're going to just redecorate this room a little bit.
Dust.
You know, so.
Absolutely.
Well, this is a good time for us to wrap up.
think community reduces your cult ability definitely needs to be in the chapter at the endof the book.

(01:25:09):
And please everyone go follow Rebecca.
All of the links will be below.
Check out her Patreon where you can join her Whisper Wendy's and all of her other lovelythings.
If you are listening to us, please like
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(01:25:30):
You're right, because if you're not watching us, it's way less fun.
So anyways, come and check us out as well.
Thank you so much.
We will be back next week to continue deconstructing white supremacy like the cult that itis.
Party!