Episode 25 | Quit Playing Monopoly

In this conversation, Rebecca and Daniella explore themes of empowerment, self-expression, and the societal narratives that shape our identities. They discuss the impact of fashion on self-perception, the dangers of conspiracy theories, and the importance of community and networking. The conversation also delves into the dynamics of motherhood, parenting, and the influence of cult-like structures on family life. Ultimately, they emphasize the need for individuals, particularly white women, to take action against oppression and challenge the narratives that confine them. In this engaging conversation, Rebecca and Daniella explore a range of themes including political dynamics, cultural reflections, the metaphorical significance of games, and the complexities of identity and self-discovery. They discuss the importance of resilience in the face of failure, the role of community in navigating fear, and the journey towards authenticity. The dialogue emphasizes the need to challenge societal norms and redefine success, encouraging listeners to embrace imperfection and creativity in their lives.

Connect with Rebecca at:

The White Woman Whisperer Website

 

The White Woman Whisperer Patreon

 

The White Woman Whisperer TikTok

 

Connect with Daniella at:

You can read all about that story in my book, Uncultured-- buy signed copies here. https://bit.ly/SignedUncultured

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And this is, all right, so here's what happened to me since the last time we talked.

(00:05):
A military helicopter crashed into an airplane, right?
And I had this very interesting learning session because I've been on the internet forlike two years now, right?
And people know that I was an intelligence officer.
and there came an opportunity to find out what kind of intelligence officer I was.

(00:26):
And it turns out that I was a helicopter intelligence officer.
I worked with aviation.
I was literally the intelligence officer for Blackhawks.
I'm also married to a 20-year helicopter pilot who was a mechanic first, and we've ownedan airplane in the DC airspace.

(00:48):
Mmm.
And Rebecca, I still could not get people to listen to me.
Like I have people trying to tell me that helicopters have radars, that this was obviouslya remote control, that I had to say the words, the United States Army does not use suicide
helicopter pilots.

(01:08):
And like people are still going.
So I caught a bit of your live and I saw that you were wearing this jacket.
I'm not sure what you have titled it yet.
And I was just like, this is...
expert coat.

(01:30):
I like that.
me a fringe expert and that's when I started making this coat.
I was like, okay.
Well, we love a literal translation too.
Like it's perfect.
Of course, Fran is going to leave me now.
Bye.
So I just had so many thoughts.
didn't, I wasn't on your life for very long, but.

(01:50):
What did I do?
like, it's making me think so many things, especially since we spoke last time.
It may not have been last time, but you were saying that people said, I wish I could wearthis color, right?
I wish I could.
And I am sure those are white women, right?
I can't tell you how concerning that is.

(02:16):
Because at the same time, you're like the most empowered group, but you're like, I can'twear this because I've decided that I look bad.
You can do so much, right?
And then it's like, but then you wanna ask us, what do we do moving forward?

(02:41):
You're so far from understanding where your opportunities are because you don't think youcan wear a color you want to wear.
And I'm yelling at you with love because who else is gonna?
who's coming to save you?
And then I realized the damsel in distress thing.

(03:02):
And we talked about like victim, Victor villain categories and like the thought that thoseare your categories when they come from literal fair retails.
They're the least real.
you know, this makes me, this actually kind of makes me think of the army, right?
And like, you don't wear bright colors because you're trying to hide in the woods.

(03:26):
And then this like idea, I think that white women have where it's like, you're notsupposed to stand out.
Like that's what it is.
It's that you're not supposed to stand out.
When people say, I wish I could wear something like that, when white women say this,they're saying like, I wish I was as bold as you.
to just not care what other people think.

(03:48):
And what I say to that is it takes practice and you can.
And it's which, and you have to know which people you have, you are gonna care what peoplethink.
And that is where anti-blackness shows up and you don't realize, right?
Because what has happened to you since you started wearing colors?
People think, lots of people think stuff, right?

(04:12):
But good things too.
And it's who, who are you seeing?
And you see these characters that aren't real.
It's like, cause you don't see yourself as a real person.
Like even the concept of
a role model, you I've been going into this whole role over soul type of thing because youare, the self-imposed suffering that you're experiencing, only you can save yourself from.

(04:40):
Yeah.
then you watch the news and see a bunch of old white guys making old white guy decisions.
And then you're like, this is happening to me.
You know, and there's this thing I used to teach veterans.
So I used to teach networking to veterans.
And I would always tell them, like, networking is awkward, right?
Like you're at this event where everyone's just supposed to start conversations with otherpeople.

(05:03):
And I would say to them, like, I could always find a dude in the crowd, right?
That's just wearing like white shirt, pants.
And I would say, like, if you want people to remark to you, wear something remarkable.
And this is...
But this is kind of one of the answers, right?
Like to my white women, I have them saying like, well, how do I meet more non-whitepeople, right?

(05:27):
Like, how do I build community?
Like I walk around in clothes that not white people are going to compliment.
And then all of the time I'm having these conversations, right?
And even crocheting and crafting everywhere you go, that's another one, you know?
It's like people just walk up to you and start talking about it.
And I've made so many friends.

(05:49):
I've had so many compliments.
mean, last week it was an older black man who gave me a compliment on my clothes.
And the week before that, it was like a 25 year old black man.
And I had thought compliments from black women were the best, but it's actually the blackmen.
Well, yeah, exactly.
And it's just so like, but almost every time it happens to me, I'm like, I end up havingthese great conversations with people.

(06:17):
And like that wasn't happening to me five years ago.
know, like when I looked like a Stepford wife, nobody was telling me they liked my hairthat I spent tons of money on or my name brand clothes, like.
You're setting yourself up for disappointment, like only, you know, it's just like you areseeking specialness and in the only way you can is in your special suffering that you need

(06:40):
to be saved from.
You're a damsel in distress.
And the whole damsel in distress thing, what about distress itself that is dangerous?
That's not, you don't need to be saved from distress.
We don't even know what we're talking about.
But the concept is that some big scary,
monster dragon black man oops is holding her hostage and then the white knight comes inbut here's the thing white knighting is saving someone from a problem you created so like

(07:11):
I'm you're you and it's so frustrating because my brain thinks things takes things soliterally but I'm also like you're right there and you're doing it to yourself and then
you expect special treatment
But I get it and I understand but also like if the news, if you're looking to the news forwhat is happening in the entire world.

(07:38):
The news, the, the, the news.
I got really upset about this for a while.
The?
There's a whole world and they're like, but this is what's happening actually.
And it's breaking news all the time.
They're keeping you tired and scared.
Like, why are they sharing this information with you?
Why are they sharing it?
Cause they care or to scare?

(08:00):
Scare.
And this thing about like you're right there, right?
So I had this scenario when I was deployed and I was the captain in charge of theintelligence office, okay?
And I came downstairs one day and I said to my team, all right, we're gonna startproducing this new kind of report, right?

(08:22):
And my senior enlisted guy looked at me and he said, who's asking for this?
And I looked at him and I was like, me, I'm asking for this.
And I looked around at all my other officers and operations and I was like, hey guys, weare the captains now.

(08:42):
We are the ones in charge of doing these things and driving these operations.
And this is what I really feel like right now, especially with white women.
Is this waiting around?
Who's going to save us?
And it's like, we.
We are the adults in the room.
So number one, ask the adults, and I say this to cult survivors all the time, like wearwacky outfits, right?

(09:07):
Just to reinforce to you that you are the captain of your own life.
Like you're an adult person, you can wear what you want and like do something.
Everyone's sitting around saying like, when is somebody gonna do something?
But like, that's us.
We all need to do something.
Right, and how dare you also, for the black people for hundreds of years that have beentrying, and you're like, hold on guys, I think it's bad.

(09:38):
I think they're making bad decisions.
Who's gonna protect us from?
You know, but it's because you're right there and like, but you can still be so far.
You can be right there, but also causing a lot of harm and preventing people and blockingpeople and being the victim blamer who is the reason someone doesn't say or do something

(10:02):
or you.
You could be the person that goes, my God, that's so cool.
Maybe I'm going to buy a colorful something in front of a younger woman.
It can be a lot simpler than.
waiting for Jesus?
I don't know.
I'm not sure who people expect, but I think like you're not calling the bluff enough tosay like, okay, so what if I wear bright colors and people look at me and they're like,

(10:29):
whoa, she's wearing bright colors.
And I used to, so I used to do this when I would coach people in public speaking, right?
And public speaking, like anyone who likes to be in front of a microphone, I believe hasjust like higher levels of narcissism, right?

(10:50):
And that's like 10 % of us, not in a bad way, just we like to be the center of attention,right?
And everyone else is terrified.
And they do these studies that show that people are more afraid of public speaking than ofdeath.
And so if you're speaking at a funeral, most people would rather be the one in the coffinthan the one speaking.

(11:11):
And all of these crazy fears.
And I would just tell people before they went up there.
So first of all, I did the graduation speech when I graduated.
I was the student speaker speaking to thousands.
And the dean, when she was coaching me,
She told me this very helpful thing.
She was like, look, nobody cares.

(11:31):
Nobody cares what you say.
She was like, the students just want to hear their name called, right?
Just want to get out of there.
The parents just want to hear their students' name called.
So like, and she was saying this as like, take it easy.
Don't be stressed, right?
And then me coming from conflict briefing, right?
To coaching speakers, I would just be like, okay, what are you scared of?

(11:55):
Say you get up there,
and you do a horrible, horrible, horrible job, am I gonna punch you in the face?
No, like is somebody gonna come after your whole family?
No, right, like nothing's gonna happen.
You're gonna be embarrassed.
The first brief I ever gave as a military intelligence officer, I forgot how to speak,right?

(12:19):
Like, and I was fine, you know, like, and it...
There's been a lot of this lately, especially with the helicopter and the airplane.
I am shook.
I am shook because of the amount of conspiracy thinking that I am seeing on the left.

(12:41):
And it goes back to this, like, at this point, I'm just angry at people talking aboutmartial law.
Because it's like, I-
I'm now seeing this only as an excuse.
So to start, if you're new, I'm a former captain in the army who's deployed to war twice.

(13:02):
And America cannot be held by force.
Martial law cannot be enforced.
And the American army knows that very well, because we just spent 20 years fighting acounter insurgency, right?
And the truth is, the insurgents usually win.
Drugs won the war on drugs.

(13:23):
Right?
So now I think though it's becoming this thing.
I keep seeing people on the left saying, well, we can't go protest because they're justwaiting to declare martial law.
Someone came back and said, well, I saw protesters getting arrested in LA.

(13:47):
protesters get arrested all the time, right?
That's why you write your phone number on your arm when you go to protest.
And that's part of how we hold our politicians' feet to the fire.
like you're sharing just the scare.
and turn stuff on us.
And if they do, there will be a bigger response.

(14:10):
There will be consequences.
There's this just like, it's the, it's the reverse of happily ever after, whatever theopposite of that is this like, then they're gonna, and then there's like nothing.
Okay.
Right to comfort.
Right.
Like, so you might get arrested.
So then don't go.

(14:30):
I don't know.
Like there are so many things you can think about and, and, and talk about that aren't,this is why you shouldn't think the thing you already think.
Like,
That's so white.
And I think the apocalypticizing and the conspiracy theories, I think it ties into rightto comfort.
And this is, all right, so here's what happened to me since the last time we talked.

(14:53):
A military helicopter crashed into an airplane, right?
And I had this very interesting learning session because I've been on the internet forlike two years now, right?
And people know that I was an intelligence officer.
and there came an opportunity to find out what kind of intelligence officer I was.

(15:13):
And it turns out that I was a helicopter intelligence officer.
I worked with aviation.
I was literally the intelligence officer for Blackhawks.
I'm also married to a 20-year helicopter pilot who was a mechanic first, and we've ownedan airplane in the DC airspace.

(15:36):
Mmm.
And Rebecca, I still could not get people to listen to me.
Like I have people trying to tell me that helicopters have radars, that this was obviouslya remote control, that I had to say the words, the United States Army does not use suicide
helicopter pilots.

(15:56):
And like people are still going.
And so finally I was like, it's comfort in fear.
Yeah.
is why conspiracy theories and cults are appealing to people.
Because here's the reality, right?
Military aviation has been getting less and less safe for a decade because the military'sculture sucks and they cannot hang on to highly trained personnel.

(16:22):
Okay?
At the same time, a downgrade in civilian aviation, which started with Reagan, happened,right?
Trump gutted the FAA a week ago.
safety standards are getting worse.
And this is what I've been saying.
While everyone's focused on 1930s Germany, we are turning into 1980 Brazil, right?

(16:44):
So it's easier for people to just be like, no, that was a secret government mission,instead of just admitting, like, we're all just less safe now.
We're all 1 % less safe when we fly on airplanes.
And every time we fly on an airplane, we're going to be thinking about that for a while.
right?

(17:04):
And we're going to be wondering if we're if it's something that's going to go wrong.
And that's terrifying.
Yeah.
Like that's, those are consequences.
That's these are all consequences.
It's not conspiracy.
It's consequences.
And sometimes there is a conspiracy that they know that certain consequences might happen.
Blah, blah, blah.
But okay.
What, like, what's your point?

(17:25):
You know what I mean?
Like it's like, why are they sharing?
Why just to scare other people to feel better.
do happen, but when those conspiracies are outed, it's still gonna be the experts talkingto you about it, right?
So one of the things I was trying to point out to people was like the first 24 hours afterthat crash, nobody who has ever professionally touched aviation was giving theories

(17:52):
because we wouldn't dare, because we know that more stuff has to come out.
and you know, like that there's all these different reasons and all these differentthings, you know, but everyone else was like, no, no, no, I'm pretty sure, you know,
people were literally saying, I saw I saw the video, I saw the helicopter fly right intothis thing.

(18:17):
I'm just sitting there going like, takes years to understand helicopters, years like.
who's just speaking with that urgency and or conclusively at all, ever really, if you'recoming in with this is what is, how dare you?
And especially white man, a white man.

(18:40):
And this is one of the things I was talking about today was like, even if it is that bad,right?
Even if the national guards do come marching down the streets of Detroit and Seattle andthese things that people are trying to say are gonna start happening tomorrow, like we
still need that threat assessment.
We still need to talk about that.
And like in a military threat assessment, we give you, we never just say, here's how it'sgonna be, right?

(19:07):
We're like,
this is what we think is gonna happen.
This is the most likely course of action.
And here's the most dangerous course of action.
And the thing is, you can't get stuck.
The most dangerous course of action is usually some version of ambush and half of us don'tcome back.
But if you get stuck there, you don't accomplish any missions.

(19:30):
You have to actually look at what is really going to affect your actual mission.
Yeah, I don't think there's too much focus on the identification and prediction and like,see, I told you, I don't care.
Because they're not sharing it to then build on anything.

(19:50):
It's just information for information's sake to scare.
If the point is, if you feel just more scared without resolution or a direction to go,then that is probably propaganda.
And because like I before like propaganda was a big conversation.
It's like, if you feel a lot of emotion and not like you have a lot more information, thenthat was an emotional call.

(20:13):
And why, like, where does it lead you?
And I feel like you have to be more intentional about knowing like what you appreciateappreciates.
So where you spend your energy and time is what you will be focused on.
What will be most relevant and come to the forefront of your mind when you make decisionslike to go on a plane or to whatever.
It makes sense that it would

(20:34):
come to the, that doesn't make it more true, more factual, more likely to happen now thatit's happened and you've known that it's happened.
Zooming out, and this is why you center yourself so you don't center yourself, becausenothing has really changed.
Nothing has really changed.

(20:54):
There isn't, we get too many also with the narratives and the roles.
A lot of the apocalypse stuff is like, they start after it happened.
You don't really see disintegration at all because they don't know what that looks like.
They're just like, and then afterwards zombies are walking.
You have to kill people that look like humans.

(21:14):
Hold on.
Hold on.
Where, where'd you get there?
Hold on.
They never do it.
It's like a, it may be like flashback to when people were, I don't know, but then, God,everybody.
just, there's this basic expectation and assess an assessment of like,
I know it seems like you're family, but it's not.

(21:34):
You gotta kill.
Whoa.
Whoa.
I was going back and forth with this guy today who was like, yeah, the National Guard isjust gonna be turned on civilians, especially in blue.
And I'm like, This is what we called the enemies are here.
And then you point at the whole map and it's like not useful, right?

(21:56):
Like which, there are 52 National Guards.
So which ones are gonna be turned on the people?
Which blue states?
Which ones do you think are gonna happen first?
How do you think that's gonna?
what's their point though?
You know, like I would, if I, if it were me, I would ask, okay.
Yeah.
I would say, do we do?

(22:17):
Right.
But what do we do?
Right.
Yeah.
They want to instruct.
I would say, what's the, what's the instructions?
What are you saying?
And it's just to make, it's not even to tell you that you're wrong.
It's to tell you to stop it.
Stop talking.
Cause a lot of the like rhetoric, seems like online is like, well, this is why she can'ttalk.
whatever she, whatever the person, this is why you can't talk.

(22:39):
You can't talk because you something.
can, regardless of what they really mean is this is why I'm not going to really changebased on the information you give me.
I am not going to consider what you said as worthy of impacting my general disposition onthis whole thing.
And in fact, how dare you even think that I should, because for me, like,

(23:05):
When I talk about the news, right?
So that has happened.
And since we spoke last also the Grammys happened and I'm not an awards person, right?
I don't, I don't watch them.
I don't, they're awkward.
I don't like them.
They're run by white people, whatever.
But this Grammy awards, whatever was very black and very excited and people were lovingit.

(23:25):
I loved cowboy Carter and I haven't listened to like a piece of art like that from likebeginning, like listening to songs go into each other.
Haven't done it since like CD days.
Right.
But.
That was so great.
Anyway, and Kendrick Lamar winning a bunch and that was so based in culture and that eventhe white women there, Billie Eilish, or people who who quote unquote lost, were just so
excited to be there because they're young and they know it's not really about that.

(23:49):
And Chappell Rhone winning something and saying her confidence comes from her walk awaypower.
You have to be able to walk away from the role if it's not fulfilling your soul.
But we're...
White women are taught like the opposite thing.
Like you're supposed to be in your role or like this whole every hood except forpersonhood, motherhood.

(24:13):
And you're supposed to be like sister.
up motherhood, because I don't know, I would assume black women are not like this, but oneof the most shocking things to me about becoming a mother was how it was just like, okay,
so now you're done having fun or having any other, anything in your life other than beinga mom attitude that was just like thrown at me.

(24:40):
Yeah.
Now you get to be in your role because all you have are roles.
And I think that we, will tropes are negative tropes are negative, but they're not onlyfor what you deem is negative.
Cause I think it's negative to be a princess.
What do they do?
Literally like, who was it?

(25:01):
It was Cameron Diaz talking about on the set of the mask.
that she was there and they were tending to her, like taking care of every single mebecause.
And she didn't really make the connection I made, of course, but like, she was like, Irealized that I was an asset to them in terms of I was making them money.
And if they just kept, they knew where I was at all times.

(25:24):
Then they wouldn't lose money trying to look for me.
So they tried, so they gave me every little thing and she didn't feel like she had controlof herself.
That was a negative experience for her.
So she was like, just tell me where you need me and I'll show up there.
Like royalty princess.
understand why Michelle Obama was like, I would not go back to the White House foranything, right?

(25:45):
It's like, you're literally a prisoner.
Like, when you have that much of what you're saying, like people hovering around you.
I mean, I was literally explaining this to my own kid because, so my kid turned nine,right?
So I've been celebrating that I'm halfway done.
And she's like, that's rude.
I was telling her, I was like, it's so weird.

(26:07):
when you have a kid, right?
You go from being an adult who gets to go where you want and sometimes just nobody knowswhere you are, right?
And as soon as you have a kid, you just have to always know where that human is for like10 years minimum, right?
And if you're parenting with another person, you've agreed, whether you've talked about itor not, you've pretty much agreed to always know where each other is all of the time.

(26:38):
You know, my husband and I have a rule that if we have the kid, we can be as late as wewant.
But you know, if you're at something and you're expected home at a certain time, you know,it's like, you just always have to be tracking each other and tracking another person.
it's so like, and because we don't have the village thing, right?

(26:59):
And that's why I describe it like that.
Like I'm going on nine years where I've always had to know where my kid is.
except for the very few occasions where people that I did trust would be like in my hometaking care of my child.
Right.
that's the whole village is a community is a nuclear families.

(27:20):
We're not are not native to humanity.
Nuclear.
You own this little group of people.
You produce them and you own them.
What does that sound like?
Not like living sounds like owning sounds like you making assets and like your houseowning a piece of land isn't real.
You don't own the house.
don't own the land.
You don't own the kids.

(27:41):
But we're just pushing this pushing, pushing.
I mean, I'm like, technically you do own your kids and part of our problem is that familylaw comes out of property law.
it's why I think that, you know, like Americans will talk about the rights of parents andother countries talk about the responsibilities of parents.

(28:02):
And I think, you know, it's like legally, okay.
But like legally they said I wasn't a human.
like I give very little.
And I think people need to understand that a community doesn't require rules.
We don't need them.
And in fact, I remember talking about lists of good guys, bad guy.
What does a good guy look like?

(28:23):
A good group, a good girl.
Who does that serve when you make that list?
Who, who is benefiting from that list being out?
Not the people who are trying to people, right?
It's those who are trying to use that to then influence you because you literally weretold good people sound like this, bad people sound like this.
And so now the person comes in and goes, okay, I'll talk like this.

(28:47):
You know, there's no intuition value.
There's you take it away.
You say, you don't know.
Noah does this amazing bit where he's like, you know, like we've all been taught that likeRussian accents are scary, right?
And blah, blah, blah.
And he starts talking in his Russian gangster accent and blah, blah, blah.

(29:07):
And then he like, and then he's like, but Russian isn't scary.
And then he just switches into fluent Russian and he just starts talking.
And he's like, what we think is scary, you know, all an accent is, is someone.
speaking your language with the rules of their language, right?

(29:27):
And like, we've been taught that a Russian accent, right?
Or a German accent in English is scary.
And I definitely had even that experience when I was like 21 years old, went to study inGermany and I was like, German sounds so nice.
German people are so friendly.
you know, like.

(29:48):
Yeah.
See, to me, none of that is, you know, to me, none of that ever gave scary.
mean, that's funny because it kind of maybe would give me like mob, but to me that's, but,but it's just like interesting.
Yeah.
And.
to make you think that this guy's a gangster, but in reality, no, this guy was justgetting a call from his wife about picking up their kid or whatever, you know?

(30:11):
and like what's scarier than someone saying something very menacing with a smile on theirface?
Who does that?
heart.
Like the, the, the, no, no, you don't get it.
And then the cry, what is scarier or a smile with a tear coming down, but they're upset orlike, think, cause those have always been the scariest to me.

(30:37):
Like the ones who are smiling and then the music kind of changes.
And it's like, I got you here though.
what, you know, one of the things, now I know so much more about creating art, but back inthe day, I was always like, hate cult movies or cult documentaries because it's scarier
when there isn't a dun, dun, dun soundtrack.

(30:59):
And it's just like the bright light of day.
In the bright light of day, these shiny, happy singing Jesus people also thought it wasokay to have sex with children.
Like that's scary, not, you know, or like,
always have, since I wrote my book, I have the media and they'll be like, do you havepictures of your childhood in the cult?

(31:20):
And I'm like, I mean, we're not holding signs that say we're in a cult, you know?
Yeah.
And that's like just looking for white signs, literally signs.
And like, that's never, that's very role-esque and narrative and character.
And it's like, well, where did it, but what is it?
It's like, no, but okay.

(31:41):
Eight passengers, Ruby, Frankie, Jodie Hildebrandt, right?
These, that's all whiteness, that's all white women-ness.
And there's a white man in there, but he's kind of like, you know, he abandoned this causehe's, he's, he's not the savior that he could be.
I I literally think one of the most terrifying things is seeing that family sitting in apew at church and just all 10 of those children being perfectly still and silent.

(32:09):
Like, to me, as a survivor, that's what's scary, right?
and like white women could really be focusing on some of the harms being caused by whitewomen if that's your community, you can address this.
That's smiling and that understanding and knowing and believability when the daughter ofRuby Franke, I was just listening to the beginning of her book, but it's like, this is the

(32:36):
result of character.
over time and the confines of these categories and the smiling and they had an audience.
They had such an audience.
She took the page down when the young boy was found out to be sleeping on a beanbag chairor whatever and she's the skinny white lady.
also a direct result of white supremacy, and I was gonna say, the skinny white woman,right?

(32:57):
And I just, look, just straight up, the only reason that America tolerates Mormonism isbecause they're shiny, well-groomed white people.
Like, literally, that's it, right?
It's easy for them to get secret clearances, because they have so many rules, they speak abunch of languages.
Like, their religion is bonkers, and everybody has put it on the cult list.

(33:20):
Yeah, but it's like...
Yeah.
is exactly what the children of God weaponized, right?
Because when children are smiling and singing and dancing and talking so politely andquoting the Bible, like you're not saying, these children okay?
And you see this in the FBI reports of the Branch Davidians at Waco, where the FBI arelike.

(33:46):
raising three-year-old children because they're so well behaved and they're sitting in themiddle of the night listening to three-hour sermons.
Like, that's not well behaved.
That's terrifying.
in that community, would be, that would, you would know because a couple of parents wouldgo, yeah, that's weird.
And then that would just happen.
It wouldn't be newsworthy.
It would be shut down, in a, in a village or in a community where there isn't a nuclearownership.

(34:10):
yeah, right.
this rules thing that you said too, right?
Where like in a community, like were there rules about how your kids were allowed to actgrowing up?
Because in the group that I grew up in and in almost every single cult, they have to turnto very harsh discipline of children because children don't follow all the rules like

(34:32):
that, right?
And so like.
blanket training.
know, but I just learned about this through that.
that's like black people have no idea.
I'm sure I just learned about it.
Like all of these things that's, but that's the, what you need to solve.
So this is one of the things that piss me off so much, right?
Because one of the things that people use to talk about how the children of God was soextreme and it was one of the worst cults in history is that our leader believed and wrote

(35:00):
down that six month old babies could start getting spanked for bad behavior.
That's what blanket training is, right?
That's what these regular, quote unquote, regular Christians in white America
are doing to their children.
Because their property and their assets, right?
And it's also the right to comfort.
You blanket train so that your kids will sit and behave, meaning not exist as much.

(35:26):
Don't be seen or heard.
They will behave.
So they train for anyone who doesn't know what blanket training is.
They put their baby on a blanket.
And I watched Ruby Frankie's sister make a video about it.
It's still up on YouTube.
She got two kids, each on a blanket.
If they move off a blanket,
We don't kind of say exactly but they are not allowed and she won't communicate with themat all Unless they're off the blanket she punishes them so they get attention by the

(35:52):
punishment and they're six months old and they get a toy maybe and Hours at a time theysit on this blanket and They go out in public and people go whoa.
You see that's the problem people are praising her and going how do you do it and
Your baby isn't moving.

(36:12):
Your baby isn't talking.
What happens to those babies?
They become these white men.
So please stop it.
and I always have to tell my husband this because we of course both grew up in a worldwhere children are supposed to be behaved and seen and not heard and blah, blah, blah.
And I always say, you know, the hardest part about raising knitting cult baby is that shedoesn't have a little good little soldier mode to click into.

(36:38):
And that's because we didn't raise her that way.
But so, I mean,
to echo what you were saying, right?
Like the reason my dad finally left the cult after 40 years of his life was because hispreteen and teenage sons, all of us neurodivergent, like couldn't be forced into the mold.

(37:01):
And it just eventually became too embarrassing for him, right?
Like he was getting too much negative attention.
So he left, you know?
But it's like...
I am so glad that there's no look I can give my child where she just becomes terrified ofme.

(37:24):
Like.
Yeah.
And like fear is a weapon, but why are you wielding weapons?
With your children.
Like, or at all, you know what I mean?
Like, cause in general, there's this like the damsel in distress thing.
We got to, because she's in distress.
She's all right.
She just needs to get over that thing.
She'll be all right.

(37:44):
It's right there.
I've seen her do it a bunch.
or even same thing with the word fight.
You'll love this one.
And I got this one from a black man, but that was like, you should never fight.
Like my husband and I have never had a fight.
I've never had a fight with my child because when you're fighting, you're trying to hurtthe other person, right?
I have arguments, I have debates, I have discussions.

(38:07):
But the second you start trying to hurt somebody that you love, like what are you doing?
What are you doing, right?
And this like win it all costs attitude.
I think I'm gonna be bringing up the narcissist a lot more frequently, because after Ifinish this, right, to come for it, because white people are like what I call it, the

(38:33):
golden children of the narcissist system, and golden children don't end up okaynecessarily, right?
Nobody's happy at the end of the day, we're all being harmed.
Yeah, you're favored, but only if you do, do, do, do, do, the coercion is at this point,like most of the job.
And often the golden children in the narcissism or in the cult stay in so much longer,right?

(38:57):
So my mom was the true believer, was the golden child, and she was in a cult till she was39 and got out with eight children, right?
I was trouble and I got to get away at 15 with no children.
and think about that, right?
And like think about the rules and what are the rules there for and you're such a goodrole model for who to do what?

(39:19):
Stay.
part of what I, this is part of my message for white women too.
It's like, so there's a point in the cult, often with teenagers, where we realize, whatare you gonna do?
What are you gonna do to me, short of, you know, unaliving me, that is gonna be worse thanwhat I'm living through right now?

(39:45):
And that's when we snap, and that's when like,
You know, I looked at my dad in the face when I was 13 years old after he had beat me infront of the commune.
And I just looked at him and I said to him, you're done hitting me.
And I walked away and he didn't hit me.
And this is part, I know we talked about this last time, but this is like really importantto me.

(40:08):
It's like call the bluff.
You know what South Koreans did when they declared martial law in the middle of the night?
They all left their homes.
Right?
like, and I think it has to be white women.
I think that white women.
You need to do something, because you got all this.
hear the term martial law, you take your children and you take your lawn chairs and you goand sit in the street.

(40:36):
Like preferably in front of your black neighbors doors or your immigrant neighbors doors,right?
But just like, what are they gonna do?
Do you really think they're gonna start mowing down blonde women and children?
in the streets of suburbia.

(40:58):
No, call their bluff.
We got lives and stuff now.
Like you could go live.
Like, you're not, you're not getting creative because you're so busy being reactive.
Like you can't do both.
You have to think ahead.
And then ahead of them.
I don't want to get too much about the psychic thinking, but like you can't, if you'refollowing them, literally you're waiting, you're hearing, what do they think next?

(41:21):
What did they do?
What now?
They said, now they said, okay.
Yeah.
Have you read their books?
They're going to keep saying some wild stuff.
And this has been going on since Trump got elected, right?
With literally me having white people just being like, he said he's gonna, like, of coursehe said, of course he wants to.

(41:42):
Like, tariffs.
How long?
I kept telling people, he's not, he's not, he's not gonna imply, right.
If Trump, if Trump piss Canada off so much,
that they cut off power to the United States, that would immediately destabilize us in theinternational community.

(42:05):
Nobody's gonna let him do that, right?
And sure enough, what happened?
He bloviated, he did all this stuff, and then he had to call the woman president of Mexicoand capitulate.
And I love that.
Yeah, they're not getting passed in either way, right?
couldn't even...
the only one that can say things.

(42:25):
Justin Trudeau was like, okay, we will target red states and 100 % tariffs on Teslas.
Other people get votes too.
And people spent so much time freaking out about tariffs before it even happened.
too busy watching the news.

(42:45):
What do you mean?
Terrible.
Shut up.
Like, you know, not really, but like what are black people doing?
It's black history month.
What do they like, white people threw out their food and then we made entire cuisines,like types of food from your garbage.
Listen, like who are you listening to every day?

(43:08):
Is it white people talking about what this other white people said?
then you're in the game of Monopoly expecting to go jump rope tomorrow.
Like, I don't know, they're different.
And jump rope is just, and people, and this, and then maybe there's another one in DoubleDutch, and there's a whole community, and I see people who are 60 years old Double
Dutching, and I think it's so cool.

(43:29):
I could never do it.
I got two in my head about when to jump in, and they were like, when it's up, but by thetime I see it's up, and I'm there, now it's down, so anyway.
Monopoly?
you're making me wanna go jump, bro.
But I had a really bad roller blade accident last week and I had to remember that I'm not10.
Yeah, you know, it's tough.

(43:51):
I think about that every time I put the roller skates on.
I'm aware I'm considerate of all the things, like Monopoly is very safe.
If you think about it, it will tear apart your family, but it's a very safe game.
And like there's rules and, I feel like white feminism is trying to be the banker of yourgame or like winning at Monopoly all the time.

(44:15):
No one likes you.
because you have to do some weird stuff to always win at Monopoly.
You have to know and strategize and let other people make decisions you know are gonna be,it's just like.
Also, I love this analogy, right?
Because like, what are you scared of with Double Dutch?
Like, that you might trip or that you might get hit with a rope or someone's hand?

(44:40):
Okay.
But Monopoly can, like you said, can ruin your family, right?
Like you could have the kind of fight where no one's talking to each other anymore.
And it's like...
and then like you finish, the person who's won is...
not talk to anymore, right?
You didn't get dinner or whatever.

(45:01):
don't know.
know, it's like, like the relationship is the asset you have, not the amount of money thatyou end up the game with.
And that's not going to do nothing for you.
And why, and how is monopoly money different from this kind of money?
You know, it's so interesting because both my husband and I are from families where it'slike, grandma never let you win at cards no matter how young you were.

(45:28):
Like, mama never let you win Scrabble.
And it was always seen as like this virtue, right?
To just like, even as a six year old, you were just gonna cry and then get better atcards.
When we had a kid, I had to, and I still have to do it sometimes.
And I have to look at my husband and be like, I don't think.
it's okay to just never let the children win because we're the great like, maybe we don'tneed to be teaching them that competition and winning is what matters over like, playing

(46:00):
the game within spending time with family and like
That's it.
That's all the, yes.
Because when I think about the game, Uno, right?
Like it's never, also, if you're playing games where you let someone win, it's likethere's gotta be some kind of mental strategy that they're not getting yet and they're as

(46:22):
kids.
you don't, I don't know the whole not letting people win.
I don't remember any of that.
Like for me.
I do remember doing a race or something and we were like, let my brother win and then beathim so that he could experience both and so that he could work on losing better.
But like, that was the point is like losing better and how to like not to just

(46:45):
you'll love this, you'll love this.
In military intelligence school, okay?
So to be an officer in the army, it's competitive-ish, right?
You have to have a college degree, you have to have high enough scores.
And then within that, there are some very competitive branches, like being a pilot orbeing an intelligence officer.
A big part of that is because you can make a lot of money on the outside afterwards.

(47:09):
And so the very first test,
that they give us in intelligence school.
Well, there's two actually.
One is just because they happen to be 3000 feet in the mountains, everyone that isphysically fit, like falls on their face and like realizes that they're in a new place
now.
But they give us a test that is just broken, right?

(47:32):
It's a not valid test.
Everybody's gonna fail, right?
But we don't know that, right?
And then everyone gets their tests back.
And in the few minutes,
that it takes you to realize that everyone has failed, you panic and that's what they'retrying to teach you.

(47:52):
Because basically they're like 80 % of our students are people like me.
I got one B in college.
I got one B in officer school.
Like I've never failed at anything in my life I had tried to do up until that point exceptmarriage.
Yeah.

(48:13):
and even that guy tried to weaponize failure.
Even that guy tried to weaponize failure against me when I asked for a divorce.
He was like, you don't want to be divorced at 25, do you?
And I was like, no, I want to be divorced at 23.
But it really was like their whole point was like, y'all are going into intelligence now,right?

(48:34):
And you're going to lose a lot.
There's no such thing really as an intelligence win.
And usually it's secret.
And it's operations win intelligence failures and you have to learn how to lose You know,and I've never forgotten that feeling of being like

(48:54):
If you know that everyone lost do you feel like don't you feel like you felt better whenyou knew everyone lost like like you know
but that's it's just that feeling for like a few minutes until you figure it out.
See, it's like, it's like so close, they're like, you're not, you still didn't.
Like you didn't, like you didn't.

(49:14):
And I totally get that.
You know what it made me think of?
There are those tests, cause I made a reference to this a long time ago, whatever.
There's like tests where if you're not reading the instructions very clearly, it's like atthe top, it's like, you don't have to do any of the things, just.
whatever, and then turn, I don't know, but right, but if you didn't really, and you juststarted answering the questions, you start doing this, you start doing that, and then one

(49:41):
is like, get up and say moo, and then whatever, right, but to the end you realize, if youhad just read the top, it says just sit quietly and wait till something, and then till the
teacher.
And you can respond to that in so many ways, especially if you're a person who didn't.
you maybe you embarrassed yourself by getting up and saying moo because you didn't reallyhave to do that.

(50:05):
I mean, it teaches you something.
And there's gonna be like a couple of you who did that.
like, honestly, that would have been me.
I was terrible at reading instructions.
That was one of my like weak spots on tests.
I had to go back so many times because I would just, I just wanted to get to seeeverything and like answer everything.
And then I go back and I would still read it wrong somehow.
I...

(50:25):
first one done, but you got minus one incorrect.
That was me.
I was like.
for so much longer than I'd actually finished.
Like my friend came to just know like she's going to be one of the last ones to leave theroom, but she finished it first because I'm like, no, I know I read something and I often
did read something wrong because I was just like more than whatever that's about anxiety.

(50:46):
That's what that's about.
But it's I and I had to learn and I'm still learning not to scold myself to self-imposesome suffering for messing up.
for failing because I was a nice student as well.
But like it didn't matter in business school and I still cared so much.
Like no one cares about your grades.
This is business school.

(51:07):
And I'm like, but there are grades so I can win this.
And so I come at this from an understanding perspective, winning, win at life, win.
Don't let them get ahead of you.
That's a game.
That's playing a game out of your life.

(51:28):
Who wins?
And if it's designed like Monopoly, no one and not you.
You don't win.
you're, you know, looking at, don't they say that?
know, life is, the game of life.
There's an actual game called life.
Do you know the actual game of life?
Yeah.
never played it.
I ate live cereal, but I did not play the game.
I thought they were like somehow connected, but there was also a game called.

(51:50):
card game, which is more fun than the board game.
See, and like so many versions of Monopoly.
feel like you're really trying to push us that we're supposed to like this game.
I don't think we do.
It's like, I didn't even know there were so many versions.
There's wicked and there's this and there's that.
How about it's not fun.
We can play something else.
And I'm like, nah, you just haven't played it cards version.

(52:13):
Hopscotch is cool.
Being resourceful is fun.
Scavenger hunts.
But like this board game that tears apart your family.
That's America, the landlord's game, which is what it originally was, was like, hey,exploitation is bad and not fun.
they were like, challenge accepted.

(52:37):
Actually, this represents America.
We should connect with McDonald's and make a scam out of it.
And then make a documentary about the scam in which the cops are the good guy.
It's even like when you look at our games, right?
Like look at Scrabble, all right?
I'm a Scrabble lover, but Scrabble is not about loving words and finding big words andputting the, it is about putting the largest letters on the largest squares, right?

(53:07):
Like it is about putting your high, your 10 point, eight point, whatever letters on tripleword scores, right?
That's what it's about.
That's how you win.
If you just enjoy the word search of it all, you're gonna lose.
See?
And sometimes it's okay to lose a terrible game.

(53:29):
Like it's okay to lose, our like, win.
We invent winning so that we can be the best at it.
And then we're like, everybody else losers.
What if it's okay to be a loser according to this?
Like who I wish I could wear, you know, that type of thing.
It's like.
You're a loser, but join the losers club.

(53:50):
We're actually dancing and singing and have a good time over here.
Now that we're done playing that stupid game.
That game had everyone yelling at each other and with the money and we're over here justhaving a good time playing in some water.
There's so many things.
Right.
when Brazil was protesting the World Cup, right?

(54:14):
Like, you know your politics is bad when Brazil is protesting, hosting the World Cup.
But it was so funny because they would have their protests, right?
These huge social media protests, like the first time it was done.
And then right around eight o'clock,
waiters would come through with drinks, people would turn on music, and the whole thingjust turned into a street party every night.

(54:37):
And I was like, I'm so jealous.
Like, I'm so jealous.
I've never been to a protest that turned into a street party.
Like...
creates culture.
I am convinced of it because you have to have a way to deal.
We don't need to self-impose our own suffering to feel special type of thing because we'renot in the game where there are certain ways to human and as a woman, they're sad.

(55:04):
They're all sad and skinny and smiling all the time, but then they're also, you know, it'sremove yourself from that whole system of
validation, like innocence and purity and like, but you don't need to be someone thatpeople can project onto.

(55:25):
I feel like that's kind of the peak of being a white woman is like, yeah, but I am everywoman.
Ooh, that's too many.
What about you?
Please just be the you version.
like, I get, you know, that's the color thing, I guess.

(55:46):
It is the color thing.
Yeah, and it's also this, you know, this painting that you see behind me if you'rewatching us.
It's also our logo.
There's a teenage girl and half of her hair is curly and half of her hair is straight.
And I always call, I say that that one is called Who Am I?
And then, I don't think we can actually see.

(56:08):
it's blocked by, it's blocked by my gym.
But there's another, nope, I'm not gonna be able to show it.
But there's a,
another photo that the next one, the next painting is a clearly like 30-ish year oldwoman.
She's just sitting like this and I say that one is called Whoever the Fuck I Want.
Like, who am I?

(56:29):
It's Whoever the Fuck I Want, you know?
And that's what's scary though.
And this is where I come back to like...
Because I received this message, right?
Like I was in the cults of white women are supposed to be skinny, blonde, and a whiteshade of beige, you know?
Sorry, skinny, quiet, and a light shade of beige, and preferably blonde.

(56:53):
And like, it's so boring.
And I just, that was one of the big things for me to eventually realize.
was like, white culture is so boring.
Like, why?
that's how you end up, yeah, that's how you end up with them just like with breadcrumbs ofa semblance of community.

(57:18):
They're like, is, hey, MLMs, right?
It's something you can, no, it's not those, know, it's being able to sit in yourself andgo like, okay, but who am I if I don't have to be anything?
Or what would I do if I could do, like,

(57:39):
You know, you have so much.
Who can do more than you?
Well, at least for you too, no one's gonna save us for sure.
No one ever.
I wish I could wear that orange.
Like who's stopping you?
It's so disturbing.
And it should disturb you when you sit and think about it.
And it's like when I jumped on and you have those feelings that pop up and you go, ooh,what is that?

(58:02):
That's a good sign.
That's like, I'm evolving and I'm realizing old thought patterns are harmful.
And that doesn't apply to everyone and not everyone thinks that way, but that's the otherthing.
This.
I think we talked about this before, the delusion that kind of comes with some of this islike, either everyone thinks like me or no one thinks like me.

(58:24):
And it's neither of those things.
Just be, just think like you.
Just, you know, you don't have to compare, none of that.
Just like, sit for a second.
Get some.
Life isn't happening to you.
It can feel that way.
It feels that way.
you know, there's something here too.

(58:48):
There's a 1800s philosopher, John Stuart Mill, who actually listened to his wife.
And he says, you know, of women's nature, the last word will never be written.
Which is partially to say that we don't actually know.
Like what women are like and what we really like because we've been so controlled.

(59:15):
And that's what I wanna say to white women.
Like I look past at me over the last 20 years and there was two little points where likethe real Daniela was trying to peek out before I got scared and put on the new armor or
the new identity.
But it's like.
And both of those, now I can see looking back, were very much quote, the real me, how I amtoday, right?

(59:42):
Like the scarf that I bought for patrols in Afghanistan was bright orange and brightpurple, covered in glitter, right?
Like that's who I am today.
But like, I didn't know that, right?
Like you still, you don't know who you are if you've been trying to fit in your wholelife, if you've been trying to fit.

(01:00:04):
this model.
And this is one of the things I'm gonna put in rap in my musical that I'm super proud of.
And it just says, because we were delayed adolescence, now we gotta have our delayedadolescence.
Right?
So like, if you spent all of your teenage years and young adult years trying to be theperfect white woman that would fit in, that I would get accepted.

(01:00:32):
into our status quo, which is racist and right, racist and patriarchal and misogynist andlike, you don't know who you are.
And that's good because you get to just try a bunch of things.
Yes.
And as you do, you will heal those parts of yourself that said, no, I got to look for someother, like what's a cool hobby to have.

(01:00:56):
That's not how you choose a hobby.
A hobby chooses you.
think, I think we've been given this whole like, you know, cool girl things, not likeother girl things.
Hold on.
What's wrong with other girls?
You know?
And if it's that other girls are still in the cult, okay, we could talk about that, butlike, we don't need to talk about that.
Let them go through their own journey.
Why are you all up in their business?

(01:01:17):
You're you, what do you like?
But it's like, reflection for a bit instead of deflection in times of concern.
And I like that you're, I think a big part of what makes you a safer white woman is thatyou are willing to look at your past neutrally, from a morally neutral standpoint and not

(01:01:39):
feel the need to categorize or go past you and future you, which I do sometimes, butthey're all the same person.
They carry all of them.
And when I think about, this isn't a versus Beyonce and Taylor Swift.
I'm just gonna say they're a little bit different.
Whereas Taylor can do an eras.
You can have a Barbie.
When you're a white woman, you can be a Barbie and just like change your outfit and thenjust change the story narrative and the role.

(01:02:04):
And then like you just that.
Whereas Beyonce, we remember that Beyonce did a cater to you song with Destiny's Child andit was a little misogynistic.
We don't love that, but we were that age too.
We want to cater to our man and do all that.
she's, but she isn't saying like, Ooh, that's bad.
That was a bad version of me.
It's, it's what makes today Beyonce even better as an experience when you know all shecame through.

(01:02:31):
You don't get to just say, this is who she is.
Very black.
Now back, you know, I watched the transformation from just like kind of more pop star dostuff and then.
a little bit more black forward, black accepting, openly black.
And I remember thinking, I could do that.
If she gonna do it, I could do that.

(01:02:52):
I literally can feel myself just going like, cause she light skin, she don't have to.
Now she's not perfect, obviously, but no one is in our community.
We don't throw people away because they, anything, anything, you don't throw people away.
That's not how it works.

(01:03:14):
Focus on yourself.
What do you see of yourself in that person?
And it's like identifying with instead of identifying as.
Cause your identity should be ever evolving with every new experience you have because youdon't know who you are until like, I don't know, you should figure it out.
like, that's something about my marriage that is very strong, is that, you you always hearpeople saying, we grew apart, like we turned into different people.

(01:03:43):
Like, of course you did.
You're not gonna be the same person you are when you were 18, you know?
Or like the military, when you get out of the military, they basically pay you for all theways your body has changed.
And I think it's funny because we have all changed since we were 18.

(01:04:03):
So like, we can basically all go get disability money because we're not who we werebefore, you know?
And I, my husband and I had the parts where we thought we were changing too much to staytogether maybe.
And then there was just a period where we just realized or decided or whatever, like, no.

(01:04:28):
We're just on this journey together and we're both gonna be completely different humans atthe end and hopefully we can just hold space for that and like each other as they change.
And he's in his bigger change moment right now than I am, but it's like, I wanna do lifewith you.
It's not like you were this one thing when I met you and now like, how dare you havechanged.

(01:04:54):
now let's evaluate.
Nope.
You don't have to evaluate, you know, like, do you, got to figure out what you're, whatit's going to look like, what it's going to be.
And so based on that, we should make a decision today because calm down.
Like, and I get that because there are roles and rules, but they're not real.
So, and I learned a lot of that from my mom, obviously, because I exist first of all.

(01:05:20):
And then, you know, she,
went non-traditional obviously in marrying my dad and then getting divorced when I guessit probably would have been easier to stay but we did the non-traditional living with
another single mom and her daughter and then that became my family and still is.
And I never hoped that they would get back together because I thought she was happier andhe was the same.

(01:05:47):
And then she's been in like a long-term relationship with a guy that they hang out on theweekends and
for like 20 plus years and I love that.
And I just, but I didn't know, like I knew it's not traditional, but it never felt weird.
It was just like, no, this works.
So no person's going to come in and try and tell me what to do.
Cause I think she knew it's too late at this point.

(01:06:07):
I was like eight or nine and I was already like, you're not, you're not my dad.
Who's this white guy?
That's great.
And that's also her putting you first, which I love.
And you don't see from necessarily white ladies all the time.
And let me show this thing that I just finished, cause this will be a great, so like, it'smy scrap yarn project, right?

(01:06:30):
So like I saved all my scrap yarn from 2024 and I had eight balls of yarn and it was yarnand embroidery thread and fuzzy threads, which are like the three things I work with.
And I was like, I'm gonna make a sweater.
And even when I started, I was like, this might just look wack.
I like, this might look so goofy, who cares?
But like, it's beautiful.

(01:06:53):
So this is the thread.
This is the yarn.
And these are the sleeves.
it's closed.
Cute.
yeah, yeah.
So it's a sweater right here, right?
So it's just two granny squares and fuzzy sleeves and like, look how pretty it is.
And it represents so many things.

(01:07:14):
I love that.
Because it's like in one thing.
But there were so many times when you were talking today too where it was hitting me, it'slike, you don't have to know what it looks like when you start, you know?
When you start figuring out your identity, when you start creating something, when youstart deconstructing, right?
Like you don't know what that's gonna lead to, but just like, I'm gonna wear this andwhite women are gonna say to me, I wish I could wear something like that.

(01:07:44):
And you can, you just have to start with a bunch of messy stuff and start building andstart creating and like tying together.
yeah, believing in yourself and like whatever is gonna happen, I don't know, but like I'vedone this before and if I don't like what happens, then that's part of the story too, but
like, sure, it's gonna be fine.

(01:08:05):
What could it be that it's allowing it?
don't like what happens, I was gonna throw those all away.
Exactly.
It's not like, it's not like if I had only just, if you did something else that would havebeen so much better and you just know that for a fact, even though somehow you made this
choice, knowing that as a fact, it's like you have to just forgive yourself for something,give yourself some grace, but like there's so much within you that has been just stifled,

(01:08:35):
stifled, stifled, and then you're throwing your fear on other people.
That's harmful.
Don't do that.
And like, it's disar- as a black woman, I think on the internet, when you're scared andyou're feel- not you, but people in your comments or like in the live or like, I- someone
said, I come here every day just to like, get a reminder it's probably going to be okaytype of thing.

(01:08:59):
Yeah.
I love that.
But like, that concerns me as well.
That's disturbing to me.
Cause like-
You know, second presidency.
But, but...
And it's funny when people are like, they're like, well, now Musk is in the treasury,right?

(01:09:25):
Or now this, I'm like, yeah, it's terrible.
Like I'm not here.
My job is not to be here to comfort you, right?
My job is to help you understand what's actually happening so that we can make actualplans of the things that we need to do.
This is why running around in a panic the first week, like what did that help anybody?

(01:09:49):
And it just shows how little you've prepared.
Like you've heard scary information, you hear it, and then you are scared.
There's no resolution, but then you're looking for solutions, but then you only have moreproblems.
It's like that's culty thinking and like nihilism that's gonna get you.
You're deeper and deeper, and then you're pulling people in by their feet, and they'rejust trying to get on.

(01:10:12):
And I just think it's just, you are a part of the system as well, and your fear is a swordand shield.
like for you, but you're also poking other people with it.
I just think to be mindful white women, when you allow yourself to go there, it's not justyou.
When you are self-imposed suffering, you feel that it's not just you that you're harmingbecause there are people who care about you or love you or could use you.

(01:10:38):
And you're just so busy just being like, yeah, but my life is so.
hard and like you're making it hard.
don't know.
Community would help you.
And like you said, you, the only things you've seen, are they things you want?
Okay.
So like you got to do something different, but right.

(01:11:00):
We don't know what it's going to look like.
And it isn't that a positive because of the things one, they've either been lies, likethinking of the hoax of historical honesty, like, or even hindsight honesty.
Like we don't know.
You think that they wrote down everything that they did?
You think they, every little thing they've done, they wrote down, they said GeorgeWashington never told a lie?

(01:11:25):
I only just heard about this.
The one who said his teeth were wooden, cool.
Anyway, like that's, we have to call the bluff of all of that and go, okay, so if that'swhat, this is what we wound up with all of their great imagination and creativity.
What if we, the people who look like this, more colorful, started making decisions?

(01:11:47):
Because those guys, you're listening to them and you're following them and what did theydo now?
What did they do now?
What did black women do?
Beyonce just won a Grammy, Kendrick Lamar made a whole conversational account about likecultural like cohesion.
there's so much that you have no idea and that's okay.

(01:12:09):
I didn't know I would end up here doing this.
I never knew when I started crocheting everything we're looking at right now.
even like when you saw that yarn, you didn't know it was going to look that good in asweater.
Nope.
I didn't know I'd be buying it over and over and over and over and over again.
I basically have my own little pride line.

(01:12:29):
didn't even, he didn't intend to, but when I first picked, you know, bought my littlecrochet hook, I thought this might be better than scrolling or this, my hair.
When I decided, you know what?
I think I'm not going to get a relaxer anymore, which I love the Paul Mooney joke waslike, when our hair is relaxed, white people are relaxed.

(01:12:50):
When our hair is nappy, they're not happy.
It's an old, like he said, so long ago, and I remember hearing that and going, uh-oh.
Like, I don't know, just, that's real.
And I hated getting relaxers.
They burned my scalp.
My mom didn't know to bring me every six weeks.
I didn't know not to scratch my head before I got them.
It's the chemical that, I don't know if you know, chemical that goes on your teeth.
You're not supposed to, it's really bad for us.

(01:13:12):
But I thought, can I do that?
Can I just stop getting them?
And like I had to, was 16.
I remember I can see where I was like having the TV on and just thinking, cause I wasfeeling at my roots and I'm going, all right, if this is everywhere, what would that look
like?

(01:13:32):
I couldn't picture it.
Could not, but I, well, it took me then another 10 years.
I was still straightening it with like irons without the chemicals, but that was one step.
And then I was really trying to come through and then I was like, well, if I juststraighten it, but eventually.
we got here and people who meet me now are like, I can't believe, like you had straighthair.

(01:13:54):
Yeah, I would have never believed I wouldn't have straight hair.
26 years until I was like, all right, what if I actually is okay?
The way it comes out is actually maybe fine.
I did get uncomfortable, you know, moments and stuff.

(01:14:15):
We've had that conversation of some guy being like,
behind me and my hair but like I was fine.
And it's like you do have to deal with, you do have to deal with the white people beingless happy, right?
Like it sounds like my journey with blonde, right?
It's like, yeah, people treat you nicer when you're a blonde lady.
But then when you realize where that's coming from and you don't want that anymore and allof that, like you still deal with people not treating you as well.

(01:14:42):
like, you know, and also it's You know, and also it's fine.
And...
Uh-uh.
Yeah.
something I think I definitely like get from you every time we talk is the like resiliencyof the black community because bonding comes from going through really hard things

(01:15:07):
together.
that is, know, like what does the white community go through together?
You know, and I was, I remember just thinking about this yesterday and it's like, okay,what are we all afraid of?
would read like all parents are afraid of their children dying, right?
Like that's what is panicking, I think, like white women right now.

(01:15:30):
And I think about this and I think about like, my life would be over.
And then I remind myself that most people survive losing children, right?
Like it's terrible, horrible.
I've seen my mom go through it.

(01:15:51):
But if I just sat in my house all the time holding my child so that nothing could happen,then what kind of life would I be leading?
What kind of life would my child be leading?
And so I think this is all in that.
And when I say to white women, if you're scared, start getting ready for how you're gonnareact and respond.

(01:16:18):
Right.
If it does come to our worst fears, our children are still gonna need us to fight forthem, right?
Like we're still gonna need to be out there even if they're marching down the streets,even if they're putting people in camps, right?
So like.
Who's gonna do it?
Who's gonna save your child?
And you have to be proactive.
For me, I do this for black children.

(01:16:40):
I do this for parents of black children.
I do this for white children.
I do this for everybody because I think, I couldn't knowingly now in the state that I'm inbring a child into this world.
I'm too aware.
That's how I feel right now.
But at the same time, yeah, you think, I could never live with this thing.
If this thing happened.

(01:17:01):
That's just not true.
So I need you to get there.
know, like people have experienced terrible, terrible things and they persisted and it'snot to spite the system.
It's despite the system, but like, doesn't have to be this way, but you have to realizelike you're in danger.
You were in danger before though, too, before you were aware of it.

(01:17:22):
It was happening.
So like the booger thing, right?
We're telling you about it.
You're finding out now you're getting all these mirrors today.
And this is, we have to tell people this when they leave cults all the time, because assoon as you leave a cult, right, like the cult gave you rules, right?
If you follow these rules, if you do these things, if you're this kind of good whitewoman, your children are gonna be fine.

(01:17:44):
No one's ever gonna come take them away.
No one's gonna send you to another country.
No one's gonna put them in camp.
No one's gonna do any of this.
And like, none of that is guaranteed, right?
When you leave the cult, you're paralyzed with fear because like,
now you're like, all of a sudden, like anything could happen to me.
Surprise, bitch, it could have before too, right?

(01:18:05):
Like anything could have happened to you at any point.
so just.
It's always this just like realizing that like.
Nothing changed if it did change, if it did change, we have to understand what thatchanges and respond to it.
But like.

(01:18:27):
humans survive most things and the way most of us are gonna survive, however bad it gets,is by like being realistic and then figuring out what we could do to respond.
kind of life do you want to live right before that bad, terrible thing is happening to youanyway?
Just scared?

(01:18:47):
Because you're living anyway.
You still have to be here, right?
So you're just like scaring everybody and you're scared and you're like, this is why I'mso scared.
But you're not like, so as a result of that, there's no agency or not autonomy given toyourself.
You're just like, that's more self-imposed suffering.
Why are you scared?

(01:19:07):
What has happened to you?
It's like you learn this really well when you go on anxiety medication and like the noiseturns down and you know what?
Turns out my house isn't less likely to catch on fire.
My kid isn't less likely to die in a car crash, right?
Like all of those things I was super anxious about still either exist or don't exist.

(01:19:31):
I'm just easier to live with.
It's almost like the crashing, right?
It's not more likely to happen now that you have heard about it.
It's because it's cognitive ease is something that guy talked about in corporate cults.
It comes up faster in your brain of what could happen because you just heard about it.
And it's giving yourself the reality check.

(01:19:53):
like, okay, how special do I really think I am that this thing that happened, know, zoomout, you know?
says.
He says, overall, yeah, they've been cutting safety requirements.
They've been doing these things, right?
So before, a decade ago, where you were 99.5 % safe to fly on an American commercialflight, now you're 98.5%.

(01:20:19):
Individually, your odds of dying in a car crash on the way to your flight, astronomicallyhigher, astronomically higher, but we're all thinking about that now, right?
because we value our control in a car, right?
Cause we have something to do with it.
In a plane we don't.

(01:20:40):
also, if you don't have the capability to one, wait four days for that information to comeout.
You know, I've seen all these people being like, oh, I'm just not flying anymore.
I'm like, okay, so you're letting Donald Trump close America because now you're just likeresponding with that with this knee jerk, like, oh, now I'm just afraid.
Like.
Remembering that why are you sharing it?

(01:21:02):
Like why do want me to hear it?
I think there's, we miss the context sometimes of why are you telling me this?
You're not flying anymore.
I don't know you, you know?
But if someone's coming on the internet, it's like they want to share in the fear theyhave and make it more reasonable.

(01:21:22):
But you can't build community around that.
Yes, we have, but not like that.
You can't self-impose your suffering and your scaredness and then build community aroundlike, my God.
I don't know, where does it go?
You just got all these white men yelling in a room.
War and stuff.
don't, like.

(01:21:44):
Y'all made that up.
War wasn't waiting to be realized.
I've heard that somewhere and it's like, ew, ew.
I get told all the time, they're like, well, you call the military a but like, we have tohave war.
They say we have to have a military and we'll always have war.
And I'm like, what kind of conclusion is we'll always have war?

(01:22:08):
Like, it is.
is absolutely a game to them.
And they're like, well, we always fight at the end of monopoly.
Stop playing monopoly.
know, but I, it is not true just because it has existed that it is required slaveryexisted.
was not required.
You don't, you don't have to have made it good.

(01:22:30):
deep shower thought yesterday, I kid you not.
was like, you taking a shower, I'm thinking about chess, and I played chess, and I taughtchess, and then I was like, are people that love chess just a little bit, like should I be
a little bit scared of them?
Because like, it's a war game, that's what it is.
Like we're just playing war, and maybe I should look more into that a little bit.

(01:22:55):
I never learned how to play chess because I was like, why this one?
Like, is this fun for y'all?
I bet you also like the movie Inception.
My brothers love Inception.
They like playing chess.
I'm like, something's wrong with you guys.
That's not fun.
Something being hard doesn't make it more fun.
But sometimes I guess maybe it does.

(01:23:16):
don't know.
my gosh, it's so funny though, because then the flip side is how people look at fiber artsand they think it's boring, right?
Like repetitive or whatever.
And I'm like, you're making, you're making things.
Wait, that's why we can't be listening to them.
You can't listen to people whose only design is to take from you.
And like in the narcissism thing, what I realized when you're talking to and why youshould go no contact with a narcissist is because whatever you give them is supply.

(01:23:45):
It doesn't matter.
If you give them words, it's something to go, no, that's not technically so that you'redefending.
What if we didn't defend anything ever?
We have a department of defense that could trillions of dollars.
All right.
Who is, what if we, what are we defending ourselves from?
We are the, we're the problem.

(01:24:07):
And we're like, but we gotta be defending ourselves.
Who's attacking us?
Why are they?
Wait, hold on.
Why?
Why?
If we stopped, would we?
Cause you're like, well, every time we play Monopoly, someone comes over and they getreally mad.

(01:24:28):
playing why are we playing Monopoly?
we gotta stop, we gotta stock up the house, we have to put bulletproof walls on the thing,and they keep coming no matter what.
So now we gotta put more funding into the police to surround stop playing Monopoly.
But it's like, America.
It's weird.

(01:24:50):
Please, I have so much hate for so much slander for Monopoly.
think like the homework for white women is like, whatever the last thing you said tosomeone, I wish I could wear that.
Go wear that.
Go wear that right now!
Go wear it right now!

(01:25:10):
I wanna see a bunch of y'all in orange.
Bright orange.
if you've wanted a black woman compliment, you are much more likely to receive one if youwear colors.
Yeah, this is what I was gonna say.
It's the homework assignment is go wear something that will have your white lady friendsasking you Why are you wearing that and you know what it takes a little bit of time?

(01:25:35):
It probably took me like a month to train my circle that I was just gonna be wearingwhatever the hell I wanted but like now I'm now I'm about to go pick up my kid in this
fringe Rainbow coat and like nobody's gonna ask me why I'm wearing it.
Everyone's just me like yep.
There she is so
like troubled times where it's a little uncomfortable, they end and then that's just like,that's her.

(01:25:58):
Then you have an actual character that's you, not chosen by man.
Yeah.
Such a great reminder.
Thank you so much for having this discussion with me every single week.
I feel better.
I feel better and also like I need to do better every single time.

(01:26:22):
So I guess that's the point.
It makes me think.
Me too.
And I guess that's good, right?
That's a place to go at least.
It's not, it's not now.
y'all are listening to us on Spotify or iTunes, please like and subscribe and tell yourfriends.
You can come watch our beautiful faces on my YouTube at Knitting Cult Lady.

(01:26:43):
And please check out Rebecca and Fran, who's in the camera now and is adorable, on herPatreon.
And all of this will be linked in the show notes.
Thanks so much.