Episode 38 | Growth Is Uncomfortable - Hey White Women

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I don't know what's gonna happen when I'm in New Jersey.

(00:02):
I don't even know what the setup's gonna be, because I'm not bringing this bookshelf,because I gotta let go of things I like sometimes.
Yeah.
like, this really ties to cultiness for me because cults pop up in times of social turmoilwhen people are uncomfortable, right?
When everything's confusing and people want clarity, right?

(00:22):
They wanna be sure.
And that's what cults do, right?
They promise you this.
Like if you can be perfect, right?
If you can do all of this stuff and be perfect, here's your like assured promise, right?
After some space travel.
Future faking, right, like the narcissism.
Yep, yep.
and I have to tell my survivor community a lot, right?

(00:43):
People, when they get out, they're so afraid, right?
They're afraid to make any decisions.
And it's like, hey, welcome back, right, to the world where you were never guaranteed atomorrow.
Like, you have no idea what is gonna happen, right?
Every day is uncomfortable if we look at it, right?
Like, and that's what's hard for people.

(01:06):
is to just sit with like, yeah, it's just gonna kind of suck now.
Hello friend.
Hello, hello.
I mean, it's going, you know.

(01:28):
If people are viewing this, you could see my bookshelf is empty.
I um am in the process of moving back to New Jersey.
And I think, you know, a lot of it had to do with my process of going through the tenetsof white supremacy on my own.
Like, it took me over a year to do it.
But I realized the last one I did was right to comfort.
And I realized so much about group and community through the process as well, but also my,like how did this affect me and my right to comfort in isolation?

(01:56):
And when you step away and you remove yourself from your community, then you kind of giveyourself this out, almost like to be able to give up on trying to figure out how you fit
and how to set boundaries and.
deal with the negative impacts.
You know, I had a reason to leave New Jersey.
It was job related, blah, blah.
But after a while, I just kind of accepted it and was like, no, no.

(02:21):
And I think differentiation is important.
And a lot of the cultiness of removing myself from where I was happened with me and how Ilearned a lot about corporate cults and stuff.
But yeah, so the moving process has been interesting, very uncomfortable, would have beena lot easier in my right to comfort to just stay longer.
and not do a whole journey again where it's all on me.

(02:44):
Cause when I moved out here, I was in a dynamic with a corporation and they paid foreverything and made it so easy and nice and know, bait and switch.
And, uh, so, I don't know.
It's, it's like, there's so much growth in the little things sometimes, whereas alsotaking control of your decisions and like, not feeling like things are happening to you.

(03:07):
feel like white women.
And there's a reason why there's a lot of connection to like, you know, the way thingsare, the way things are kind of happening around you are happening to you and not
realizing, you know, like when you're putting SOS and please help us and do you see thestate of things?
It's like, how are you making yourself uncomfortable to be more comfortable in the endaside from just saying kind of like, well, you know.

(03:32):
I had to and then this and you know making difficult decisions and making yourselfuncomfortable.
for the, but honestly, just like sometimes we pamper ourselves into paralysis.
Right?
We give ourselves the right to stop moving because we can be overwhelmed or say this istoo difficult or, you know, list off all the reasons why you shouldn't.

(03:56):
Okay.
Those are the reasons why that would be difficult.
You know, struggling is a thing.
That's okay.
Damsels can be in distress and they don't need saving from some stranger.
What does that stranger have knowledge of an awareness of that you don't have?
Like what is the distress?
How can you move forward?
em just saying something different, having your own opinion and saying, okay, this maycome with a little.

(04:24):
something and I don't know exactly how it's going to be.
Like being unsure doesn't mean you're insecure.
Okay.
I'm secure in the decisions I'm making, although I am unsure how, I don't know what daythe people are going to come take this box, take all these boxes I have.
Right.
I am unsure because I tried to figure this out in a way that works best for me and pricewise and stuff, but

(04:46):
I don't know what's gonna happen when I'm in New Jersey.
I don't even know what the setup's gonna be, because I'm not bringing this bookshelf,because I gotta let go of things I like sometimes.
Yeah.
like, this really ties to cultiness for me because cults pop up in times of social turmoilwhen people are uncomfortable, right?
When everything's confusing and people want clarity, right?

(05:08):
They wanna be sure.
And that's what cults do, right?
They promise you this.
Like if you can be perfect, right?
If you can do all of this stuff and be perfect, here's your like assured promise, right?
After some space travel.
Future faking, right, like the narcissism.
Yep, yep.
and I have to tell my survivor community a lot, right?

(05:29):
People, when they get out, they're so afraid, right?
They're afraid to make any decisions.
And it's like, hey, welcome back, right, to the world where you were never guaranteed atomorrow.
Like, you have no idea what is gonna happen, right?
Every day is uncomfortable if we look at it, right?
Like, and that's what's hard for people.

(05:52):
is to just sit with like, yeah, it's just gonna kind of suck now.
Things are just, you know.
uh
you can, and you can focus like what I like to say is a focus on the BS, but focus on thebright spots.
Like what is beautiful black people love.
We find joy in all situations because you, it is there, but if you are determined to stayput, then you will find the reasons to stay put.

(06:19):
You know, you can talk to yourself.
We are very good at that.
Um, and I think, you know, it's almost like white women or women in relationships kind ofget this past to be right a lot because you have a feeling about something.
Right?
If you feel emotionally about it, that's valid.
It's a valid feeling.
That doesn't mean it's correct.
You know, you, you, you were never sure.

(06:40):
And I think it's also calling, like calling the bluff of even when you were making thosedecisions, you felt sure about like you, they weren't really your decisions.
So you didn't feel responsible for them, but you were still making them.
Like you were still there the whole time, even though it felt like someone else's.
decisions you were making, because it was a performance for the role of whatever the thingyou were in, it was still you there.

(07:04):
So like, imagine if you put all that effort and energy into being the like your ownmanager, or like speaking your own praises in that way and saying, I've been through all
of this.
I can do this.
And that's what's so difficult for people, I think, right?
Is to just like, I don't know, I used to call this front of the room advantage, where likewhen you hear a speaker being introduced, right?

(07:32):
You're usually sitting there going, wow, like that's super impressive, right?
And like that person wrote that bio themselves, you know?
Like that, you know, like, uh but like,
When you were saying, right, like you can do the things, right?
Like you can go and put yourself places and make yourself uncomfortable and like, youknow, neither of us got to where we are right now by like, you know, following a normal

(08:00):
path.
right?
We're proof that we tried, you know, if anything, that's what I want so much of my work tobe is like, give up that goal.
It was, I got it, did it.
I succeeded.
made it in.
Yeah.
I didn't do it perfectly, but like, if I, believed in it and I tried really hard and y'allwith more information and you're not going to like, I was bought in and it's still just

(08:24):
the best case scenario.
It crushes you.
are a human resource.
for a made up system, an organization, you are a human resource.
That's insane.
You are an energy source.
It's a vampiric system, whatever, you know?
It serves only to take, doesn't consider you no matter what it says, but it will.
And like, we have to stop romanticizing those things and instead just like humanizeourselves and humanize those systems where they are, where they're people and where

(08:53):
they're not people.
You know, like, oh, this company saw me and found me.
No, it didn't.
That's not.
It was just like a person on TikTok who works at that company who was like, Hey boss, youheard of this lady?
Like that's what's happening.
Right?
Nike isn't discovering people.
That's not a thing.
It's like the church, the company, the organization.

(09:15):
I just been thinking a lot about anyway, like when you make sense, people get reallyuncomfortable.
And I realized that like that's.
People know that.
If you're in an online space, you have to realize there are people who believe the thingthat makes sense just like you, but for some reason people get really mad.
I don't know.
When I said white women are the men of women, people immediately got it, but alsoimmediately were upset.

(09:40):
think, so I think you and me both, like I've been having this experience of realizing thatlike both when I say the military is a cult and when I say Alcoholics Anonymous is a cult
and then people expect me to then like comfort them or make it better or say it has to bethis way.
And instead I'm just like, no, that's like, that's just the conversation we don't wannahave is that 1 % of the military is in a cult.

(10:09):
There's like this thing about giving words, giving it power or something.
And yeah, yes.
I think it gives it, but it doesn't actually change talking about it.
Doesn't change the system.
changes awareness levels.
It changes how we understand it to be systemic and not personal when we hear other peoplesay it.

(10:30):
And what they want is for you to think it's your mindset.
That's the problem.
It's individual people's decision-making that has let us here.
Maybe, maybe, maybe the founding fathers and the people who benefited that, the 1%.
This is just an MLM gone too far.
And it's just the 1 % does well.

(10:50):
We all are trying to get in now and like, you have to get out that company.
Stop thinking that corporation, that thing is going to give you answers.
Like that there's a, there's a goal to achieve that will give you that goodness, thattitle, sort of comfort.
Now you can rest.
Now you can never do, never worry about blah, blah, blah again.
Sorry.

(11:11):
I don't know if you've realized that's not happening.
Like, and then you'll never have to worry about, have you seen those people?
Cause I've seen, I watch reality shows, Bethany Frankel made this big deal, like a hugedeal with her company in one episode of her spinoff.
And it was like, we'll never have to worry about money again, if you do this, right?

(11:32):
Throw the blackberries.
We can afford so many.
She's still working today.
That was like 10, 15 years ago and she is hustling.
Like, I don't know, but that just tells me, Oh, that's not a goal that it's not even good.
It's not a goal worth achieving.
We have to give up, give up your goals of goodness and start new, get a new one.

(11:53):
Now that you're aware of stuff.
Like I never thought I'd move back to New Jersey, but I never really thought about it.
Cause I, I don't know.
I think maybe in some places it was like, well, I've moved out, you know,
I've progressed, but it's like, yeah, you did that.
Now let's go bring that energy back to where you were fed and nourished and like be aroundthe people you love and care about that support you and just trust that you'll have

(12:17):
whatever boundaries you need.
You're new.
Future me doesn't know.
I mean, future me does know things I don't know.
Today me, I don't need to figure out what it's going to look like.
Can't.
I'm not psychic.
I'm not.
Ms.
Cleo wasn't even psychic, but you know, that's.
I was like, she wasn't even Jamaican, but that's a whole other thing.
That's...

(12:37):
You know Miss Cleo?
Call me now, that makes sense, you don't...
Miss Cleo, was like, it was these infomercials, she like, always say, call Miss Cleo now,and it was a fake Jamaican accent, and you would pay by the minute, and she would tell you
some stuff, and it was whole thing.
So there's like documentaries on her and stuff.
that one.
I don't even know if that's the whiteness or the cult, you know that I didn't get to likewatch

(12:57):
be a blend, could be a blend because she is black, it is a black people.
It could be, you know, like this is the perfect intersection of where we are and thetimeframe.
uh But yeah, Miss Cleo, that's funny that you, I love that.
So I want to tell you I talked about Black Heaper Israelites.

(13:19):
You know, it's funny because they're such a loud, they're so aggressive.
I'm sorry.
They're so aggressive.
They're like known for yelling at people.
So.
And specifically white people.
So I'm.
Curious how that works.

(13:40):
I mean, it was all of the kind of cult responses that you would expect, but then a bunch,like I responded to a comment by a black person saying, my cousin is in Black Hebrew
Israelites, she says it's not a cult, but what do you think?
And I mean, my response was basically, look, when they have to preface it with it's not acult, like that's a cult pattern.

(14:07):
And then,
And then I just only talked about like the us versus them and how when we see minoritycults, specifically in black cults in America, they can use this us versus them mentality
to get you in, right?
And it's like, it's real, know, like white America does hate you.

(14:29):
That's a real thing.
That's a real thing that people were dealing with, especially in the thirties and then thesixties when these significant.
Yeah, yeah.
always, yeah.
But, so anyway, that's all I said.
And it was just a mix of black people being like, thank you for addressing this, and thena lot of black people being like, stay out of our groups.

(14:53):
And I just, you know, I just let the comments kind of go.
um
like if, okay, you know, listen, too late, I already said something, one, and like, youknow.
other part that I addressed was like, because this was a very interesting crack in thebrainwashing for me when I read a book about the Nuwabian Nation.

(15:17):
I've seen Nuwabian and Nuwabian, so I'm still like not sure which one it is, but there's acommunity, a book called The Community.
We do it again next month in book club.
Hill was in?
I think, I think that is the, did they build the pyramid in Georgia?
Is that the one you're talking about?
I don't know.

(15:37):
But so I added this one, like very deliberately when you put together a list of cultmemoirs, it's a lot of white women, right?
So I was like specifically looking for a memoir by a black woman and someone recommendedthis memoir, The Community, right?
And so black Muslim cults, I grew up in a white Christian cult.

(16:01):
And like, I have never read a better description of my own childhood, including in my ownbook, right?
Like growing up in these communes.
And so that's another thing that I like to bring up is like, because experts have saidthat all cults are ultimately the same, and basically like coercive control always happens

(16:25):
in a very similar way, we know that like there is a,
a single like cult baby experience or generic cult baby experience, right?
And I think one of the things that I'm actually doing is helping to build the language forthat.
Say things like if you were told you were in this world but not of this world, right?

(16:47):
Or if you were sacrificed for the mission by the adults in your life.
Yeah, because how you are used as a child within the cult is another caste system withinthis group.
So just like with every other group, there's going to be subdivisions.
And if you are born into it, you are not treated or have the same experience as someonewho entered one or, you know, voluntarily chose one.

(17:16):
you can tell me who said this, I think, that the oppressor best understands the, or theoppressed best understands the oppressor.
Okay, I thought it was a black woman.
uh To be fair, I thought we had talked about it before, but I can't recall the name.
em So like,

(17:37):
I think about the women from cults, I think understand cults better because women arequite often a servant class, right?
A more oppressed class, which also means that the cult babies, like the children from thecults, understand cults even at an additional level, right?

(17:59):
Because children are the most oppressed.
And that's true in our society too, right?
uh
I think about also like there are videos I'll see where it's twins, right?
Twin women and they switch clothes or switch position or something and have their kidscome in and see which one.

(18:19):
And a lot of the times the kids know exactly which one it is.
Like you don't know the things they know about you.
And like I remember one video, the kid smells their leg and knows which one is the mom.
And it's like,
their survival is based on knowing you in ways you don't know yourself.

(18:39):
What's it sound like when you walk up the stairs?
And you have no reason to be aware of that.
And it's okay that you're not aware of that.
But when they're telling you, no, you smell different than your sister, you don't get todecide, no, don't.
Because that toddler, whether they can put that into language or not, has informationworthy of considering and giving autonomy and space and...

(19:02):
But in a cast system, you're just an under, right?
You're a lower.
and that's why children are often so like violently controlled in cults because kids knowstuff, right?
But we're treated like we're these absolute blank slates and you know, exactly, kids saystuff, right?

(19:24):
Kids spit things out or come up with things.
And they say stuff that might cause some cognitive conflict.
And then instead of you dealing with that, you get dysregulated and punish that child.
And that is moralized.
the, you get to beat your child for acting up like that.

(19:47):
What?
And.
about right to comfort, right?
Parents to parent in like an authoritarian style and it's all about like the kids beingwell behaved.
I found a copy of the book to train up a child or something, which is like peak whitepeople in my opinion.
Like don't think black people know that this type of stuff is going on, blanket trainingand all that.

(20:10):
Cause I'm blown away sometimes by things, but that they wrote it in a book that it is moreor less.
And then they use the book of the Bible, worship of the written word, passed down and youknow, used to say, well, this is good for the kid.
This is how you psychologically torment them into never bothering you in the future tonever.
to moving immediately.

(20:30):
Like the language is so clear.
I want white people to read their own people's stuff.
When you wanna, how do we, the book is 30 years old.
If I look it up right now, there's no hate pages for it.
There's no, we gotta dismantle this.
They're selling it right now on amazon.com.
It's obedience training and stuff.

(20:51):
And people are buying it.
They put out a 30th anniversary.
White women, this is a, and I feel like,
Only some people would see this book and go, yes, this is an okay thing to do.
But I'm saying like, you're creating little sociopaths.
Cause if from my understanding and what I've read and heard, psychopaths are born.

(21:11):
Sociopaths are created.
They are made.
And I feel like what's happening is you're having these white people get these books andgo, see, it's fine.
I can do it.
And that's how you justify it to an enabler who maybe isn't a psychopath, but it's why wecan.
do blanket training on our infant, our six month old baby, hitting them for trying to geta toy.

(21:33):
Like, and now that kid doesn't process their emotions and believes that they, you know,have to prove themselves to, by not being.
you end up with school shooters, right?
Just kids who've been incredibly abused, but also this exact kind of parenting is how youraise people who accept fascism, right?

(21:57):
Like this has been authoritarian parenting has been directly tied to people who grow upand accept
this kind of like top-down leadership, exactly.
You know, and my gosh, people, professors who go to teach at BYU who are like not Mormonfrom Mormon backgrounds will talk about how like it's so eerie because the students just

(22:21):
don't ask questions.
You know, like there's no, it's just, you just sit there and take it in, you know, becauseyou are not.
concern with white people, right?
Like this, this, how we started this, right?
Like the sitting in the waiting for instruction, but, think about the type of person whowas willing to instruct people like this and feels comfortable and excited and confident

(22:45):
and telling you exactly what to do when they are lacking in a self security and they'reusing, what is their incentive to, to sell this to you?
Whatever it is, this.
Self-help is a crazy thing.
You think about that you're purchasing a book on self-help.
You need this person.

(23:06):
And at the same time, I'm trying to provide what I think is kind of like self-help.
Like, no, no, no, help yourself.
And everybody else is like, well, buy this book.
And I'm like, wait, what?
Yeah.
And then I know I want to write a book and it's similar, but the point is I will nevertell you exactly what to do.
I follow questionity.
But that, but-

(23:26):
Question first.
And that is the thing, right?
The crux of the matter.
And I had this realization, it was like tied into doing my audio book.
Like they had told me that I had the right to audition, right?
And then I didn't get asked to audition.
It was just literally the director of Macmillan emailed me and was like, do you wanna doit or do you want us to get an actress?

(23:50):
And I had been determined, like I'm gonna do it.
And as soon as the question was up to me, I was like,
absolutely paralyzed with fear, didn't know which one to choose.
oh And this was kind of the exact same time of my life where I was like reaching out toall these old mentors and like asking them for advice on what to do with my life.

(24:12):
And what I realized was like, I, for the last 20 years, I have been looking for a mentorthat will tell me exactly what to do with my life.
And that's not a mentor, that's a cult leader.
a leader or something.
That's a dad.
That's, know, cause they teach us to go from dad to like teacher principal to like thepolice politician, always going to permission, getting permission from someone on how to

(24:39):
live your life and who will you tell me?
did a good job.
Who can I, but instead saying, what if it was just you?
What do you want to do?
And the it's so simple, but it is not given.
We like, will.
talk about romance, talk about romance scams, romance is the scam.
Man is right in the middle and it's right there, right?

(25:02):
And from Rome, these men love Rome.
It's not that great.
It's just a place and Greek and Romans and Catholic church and all that stuff, right?
But this, this hopeless romantic, and it reminds me, like I think about this one sticks inmy head, like the hopeless, hopeless, hopeless romantic is insane.
Sweat me off my feet, take care of me.

(25:23):
kill you?
No, take care of her.
Take care of her.
know, uh which one do you mean?
Take care of her.
But like Mike, so I'm listening to Mike Rinder's memoir, I guess, think it's a memoirabout Scientology.
uh And he said something, he said, hope for the future is a great motivator, right?

(25:44):
But he was saying it as like, it'll get better in the future.
Like just do this and
And then it'll get better.
And that's kind of what the narcissist system and narcissists and cult leaders use islike, just get through this.
It's future faking.
That's different than love bombing.
And people don't realize like love bombing is you're so great.
We need you in here.
We're so happy to have you.
You're special.

(26:04):
We are hiring you because you're so amazing.
Future faking is, okay, we'll talk about it in a Q1 of next year that raise totally.
totally agree with you.
It's just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
We'll talk about it here or.
You know, I know we're going through a rough time, but I see having kids with you.
That's just a story.
You're just saying stuff.
And it's like, oh, well in the future, it just is a delaying of you dealing with theconflict at hand.

(26:31):
You interacting with this idea.
And of course the system's going to want you to just hold on a little bit longer.
Just a little bit longer.
Just one more thing real quick.
Just this.
And it's on you to quit.
I'm going to tell you my self help goal is grieve your goals.
Give them up.
You can pick them back up.
I said, I'm dropping the book writing, right?

(26:51):
I don't, I'm not writing a book.
I made a whole declaration about it.
Cause I had to tell myself, cause I was going to do it for the wrong reasons.
Anyway, I was going to do it to prove, you know, and, then it's just a whole.
Why forcing myself and that feels so familiar and like, Oh, okay.
Someone's going to tell me I did a good job.
Let me look at these numbers.

(27:12):
They're going to tell me if I'm doing a job.
No, actually.
It's when you look back at like eight year olds you and then look forward at eight yearold you and you think, what would they think?
Like zoom out and see yourself.
Like I said, zoom out, not up, you know, time wise time and space this way and make themore interesting choice.

(27:33):
Cause I always thought I'm going to do something interesting.
And then I grew up and I was like, well, like maybe business school is a way to findmyself into something interesting.
you
mean, kinda, kinda, you know, trust the journey and whatnot, but yeah.

(27:54):
I, so I, for example, many times after I got out of the military, almost did an MBA,right?
Just because that's kind of like what you're supposed to do when you're an officer, youget out, I have a four year GI bill, like I should use it.
And I didn't, because I just, those classes just seemed so boring to me, right?

(28:14):
Just like just the worst.
And then it wasn't until
I picked my topic to study, right, which I thought was leadership and culture, but endedup being cults.
And then by the time I knew what I wanted to study, I went back to school, I did onlythings I wanted to study.
I like, I love that I got to do it like that, you know, but it was because I was like, I'malready doing all this study on my own.

(28:39):
I might as well go enroll in a university and get that, you know, Harvard degree, but.
for what you are trying to do.
Like I would never be on TikTok if it wasn't for me trying to do something similarly.
still have that GI Bill, by the way, and now I'm like, well, I'm writing a musical.
Oh my gosh.

(29:01):
Babe, what does GI stand for?
GI's slaying for soldier, like out of World War II, but I don't actually know off the topof my head what it stands for.
Because the, in, in the Mike Rinder memoir, so many letters, Scientology, like it wouldn'teven make sense.

(29:23):
It would be just like historical and he was like the H and whatever.
Like they would just make letters out of stuff.
And I'm like, this is one of the cultiest cues you can have.
You were literally just putting letters.
This way you're not saying even like FBI.
CIA, we just make it letter so that we're not really talking about what are they doing.

(29:47):
even, yeah, the Bureau of Events, what are we investigating?
Who, what, how can we, what separates them from regular police?
Like it's not clear.
There are ways that language could be clear.
And I think realizing that for myself and realizing like, oh no, these are signs it's notan actual good product if you have to confiscate what you're talking about.

(30:09):
to make it that you have to dedicate yourself before you even know what you're talkingabout.
You have to be dedicated enough to learn this language before knowing if it's worthanything good.
Because I think about even like FBI or whatever, was listening to this lady who was in thefeds, ended up marrying a guy who was a part of the cartel and they never even knew.

(30:30):
They did all this research and didn't even know anyway.
And the things that they're doing there.
In the name of investigation, like tormenting the actual FBI people, you know, making themwatch beheadings.
That was done in exeum.
Like to make, to gain mental strength, torture them, kidnap them in the middle of thenight, trouble teen style, take them, drop them in the forest and to make sure they know

(31:00):
what universe.
Are we living in where this is necessary?
The army does that to pilots.
Yeah.
I'm sure.
But you call it something special, you make someone a CEO and now they're no longer aslave owner.
You put letters on it.
whole idea that mentally toughening yourself up for crazy disasters is helpful, and thenno one pays attention to the amount of trauma that goes on, right?

(31:36):
It's just...
up a child.
It's literally to train up a child, grown up version.
It's called how to create an enslaved person who doesn't run away.
the military, right?
Like everyone focuses on PTSD and trauma if you went to war and if they think what youexperienced in war was traumatic enough and no one looks at like the training, training.

(32:02):
Like you don't think, you know, running around every day going when my right foot hits theground, all I hear is that killing sound like.
affects people, know, rushing it, it dummies a bayonet say kill, kill, kill, or theMarines do a blood red blood makes grass grow or something.

(32:24):
Marines have their craziness.
I mean, it's, you're having yourself broken down to be turned into, you know, I like tosay that, I like to say that the military like radicalizes or programs individuals to
conduct violence on behalf of state.
Right?
Like that's what they're...

(32:45):
And like they say it as if we needed there are people, it becomes their wives and thepeople around them because no one's coming to get us.
then everyone turns around and says, you knew what you were signing up for, right?
And I've heard this on reviews of my book, right?
From people being like, are we supposed to feel bad that she was assaulted, right?

(33:08):
Or like treated terribly as a woman, she knew what she was signing up for.
But I also get this from other cult experts when I talk about the military being a cult,right?
And they'll be like, well, it's very clear what the organization is when you're signing.
No, it's not.
Nobody, like, no, it's not.
It takes six months.
It takes six months to onboard into the US Army or the Children of God.

(33:31):
And during that time, they're like actively hiding from you, right?
Recruiters are allowed to lie to you.
The first thing they tell you in training is like, don't care what your recruiter said,right?
You're ours now.
It is.
Well, and the promise of you're gonna be part of this great elite organization, blah,blah, brothers and sisters, right?

(33:54):
Like the love bombing.
And then like, so my experience, right?
I get a year and a half of training.
Six months of this is training to be an intelligence officer, right?
100 % of that training was like, here's how you collect information on the enemies.

(34:16):
0 % of that training was the other half of my job that I only realized when I got to warin Afghanistan, unable to leave for 365 days is the other part of your job, which is put
together uh called literally targeting package, right?
Here, go get these people.

(34:37):
Right?
So the part of your job that you're most likely to object to...
comes later.
You know nothing about it.
Until you're there and you can't leave.
Transparency, if something is diminished with transparency and sharing access, publicaccess to that information, that is a dangerous thing to me.

(34:59):
like creating scarcity around something.
But also I think the people who respond that way are abusers.
I'll just, I think you're an abuser at this point, because I think about it in relation toDiddy, in the black community, we are having these conversations a lot.
Well, she and she and she.
You're an abuser.
don't care.
Because if that's what you care about, and if you're not directly the one doing it, youare aiding.

(35:23):
Just like when I talk about the sheep's clothing, a wolf in sheep's clothing, if you'rethe person going, if I say, that thing looks like a wolf in sheep's clothing, and you go,
that's rude, don't say that about them, because you never know, and dah, dah.
As the wolf gets closer and closer to me and my family, you're an abuser, I don't care.
You are dangerous to people.

(35:44):
You made a deal with that guy.
I don't care.
Even if it's just in your head, parasocially, you said, I'm like you.
If I had it this way, I would do that too.
And then these same people want to turn around and be like, why didn't nobody sayanything?
You know, we see this in cults all the time, right?
When cults, when cults, yeah, when cults are in the media, right?

(36:06):
Like a group only gets labeled a cult when it's in the media and when we can measure thedamage in bodies, right?
And then, and then people are like, why didn't anyone do anything?
And yet, right.
It's never true.
every cases of these big cults, right, the experts have been warning about it forever.

(36:29):
But like my whole platform, right, was you can go, we call them the military left of theboom, right?
You can go before the disaster happens.
If you're trying to predict the disaster, right, you can go before that and you can justwarn people, right?
So I can look into groups that everyone is saying this is cultsy.

(36:52):
Right.
that down and I can help people understand.
Like we don't have to wait for a mass suicide, right?
But then are people cool about it?
No, they're like, it's how dare you, blah, blah, blah, you know?
And it's just, mean, nothing bad happens if literally, if you call someone an abuser andthey're not an abuser, like unless you have more power over them, it doesn't do anything,

(37:18):
right?
If you compare a group to a cult,
It doesn't do anything if it's not a cult, but like.
That's not a real thing.
That's just imaginary brain thoughts from people who don't even know who you are.
Like it's just, they're hypothetical and I got it.
You know, those aren't the loudest that those are the loudest people, but they don'trepresent most of us, or at least what I think like most of us would agree with.

(37:43):
Right.
But like the, didn't she say anything?
You're an abuser.
Why didn't anyone, why don't kids speak up when this happens?
They do shut up.
You're an abuser.
The fact that you think they don't speak up, it's that no one believes them.
They are trained to, they're looking for attention.
Okay, maybe that's something to look into then.
Well, they just want attention.

(38:05):
That's to train up a child type stuff.
This is an enslaved being that is actually not.
In Scientology, they say they're just like small adults, which is a ridiculous thing.
They treat them like adults, but you're saying that they're smaller.
So you're acknowledging that they're not adults, but like...
only in ways that work for the cause, right?
Like just in ways to denigrate them.

(38:27):
Yeah, and also like the same way that when adults go through trauma, like that shows up,whether you talk about it or not, like that is also true for children, you know?
So like, I read this one book that uh a woman's like adult abuse triggered her memories ofher abuse as a child.
And she's in therapy and she's saying, you know, I don't think my mom ever knew about it.

(38:52):
And her therapist was like, no, no, like you were five.
Like there were signs, like there were signs, there was things that changed in you, right?
Like it's not really possible that a like attached, interested parent is gonna miss signsof abuse in like young children, right?

(39:14):
Because they say stuff, right?
And it's just so different, right?
The energy, all of that stuff.
Right, because it's not like you keep acting the same, like you aren't being traumatizedat night or whatever, or haven't had a thing.
And if you're not saying anything, if they aren't saying anything, they don't feel safetoo.

(39:36):
So that's a different abuse.
That they don't feel emotionally safe to tell you if that's what's actually happening,which is usually not the case, because it's something slip, you should be listening.
ah
is why, know, even for my book, like I had such a problem letting them use the photo thatthey wanted to use.
If you're watching us, you can see this photo of me as a child.

(40:01):
And I'm like, everyone looks at these photos and nobody looks at like, just like the deadblack eyes on the children every time.
You know, and I look at that and you're like, how were these adults like looking at us?
Like if you see the photo of that baby not crossed out, it's like, I don't even understandhow a two year old can be that sad.

(40:29):
And I was that two year old, you know, like how could they not like see it and see howupset we were?
And that was something even later when I at 15, when I was like,
I had broken some rules, I was being thrown out, but then they decided, you know, becausewe were kind of like famous and important, they didn't know if they wanted to do that.

(40:50):
And my mom like takes me privately and she's like, you should go, right?
Like we already set up a place for you, you should go.
And I asked her later after she was out of the call and she was like, I could just see howmiserable you were, you know, there with us and like in that world.
And so I wanted you to get away, you know, and they're like.
the ability to just look at your child and tell that they're not happy.

(41:15):
And pay attention to that, and pay attention to that, yeah, exactly.
I do think there's a subset based epigenetically maybe on slavery that want to seesuffering from their children because there is this like having joy is sinful type of
vibe.
That's what I'm getting.
Like joy is in suffering, serving and saving only being quiet, right?

(41:38):
But your mom didn't have those traits of like the sadism and the like, well.
Children deserve to be unhappy until future you grows up, moves on and gets over it.
You know, there's just this, there's never an acknowledgement of your personal experience,but there is a lot of people who just, the Ruby Frankie of it all.

(42:05):
What I, that's what I describe about like the worst thing about growing up in the childrenof God is no spontaneous moments of joy, right?
Like we were never just allowed to be kids.
Like, so it's not this specific abuse or that specific abuse.
It's just like, like I, when my child was three years old, I had this moment, you know,she's at gymnastics.

(42:29):
and they're going from one thing to the other and they're supposed to all put their handson each other's shoulders and like walk very nicely.
And they go past the sponge pit and my kid just throws herself in, you know, and thenanother kid does.
And I, like my heart dropped.
I was like out of my seat and then I like kind of caught myself, you know?

(42:49):
And the teacher comes back, she's like, okay, that's not what we're doing right now.
Okay, let's go.
And everything was fine.
And I had to like...
I literally had to like talk my heartbeat back down and be like, she's fine.
She's fine.
Like she's not gonna go home and get punished more.
Like it's just, she's three years old and she had a spontaneous moment of being threeyears old.

(43:13):
It's fine, right?
But it reminds me also of, you know, a conversation that happens around graduation timewith black people is that white people hate the way black people do graduation.
We don't care that you said, wait till the end.
All names are called for you to clap.
I'm sorry.
I came here to see my kid.
There's one second of my kid on the stage.

(43:33):
I'm going to scream.
I'm going to, I'm going to do whatever I want.
Right.
And you can, and especially this year, and especially, I think it was New Orleans.
I'm not exactly sure.
They busted out and it's, you know, all these black girls and kids, guys too, think I justlove Black women and they bust out shoes are off.
They are on the floor.
They are dancing.
They are going crazy right after.
And it's interesting is that that is seen, you know, why that's where you'll see so muchracism in that comment section.

(43:59):
And cause it's black kids graduating, experiencing joy and doing it.
Not at all like white people would do it.
Not falling in line and.
walking without emotional reaction as you defeated the odds and your family is here andthey're all here to see you and you know, no, but it is like, there's this concept, you

(44:22):
know, don't embarrass me in front of these white people that happens in black communitiesthat I didn't really get.
So that's the code switching that that's why I didn't code switch while I thought I wascode switching because I just wasn't cursing.
I don't know what I thought, but it really is like act different around white people.
But I just, know, I have a white mom.
I'm always around white people.
So that's why I got in the trouble I got into.

(44:44):
I didn't last in the cult because I didn't get those unspoken rules.
Like a lot of black people will say, I've, you know, so many videos of people just beinglike, oh, look at that white girl go.
And then you hear it and she goes, ooh, I'm recording.
Like she catches herself.
Like she shouldn't have said that.
And to me, my brain, I'm like, but you just said what was happening.

(45:05):
You know, or, oh, this is like white people mac and cheese.
then they're.
I'm still confused, you know?
Like they just know not to say it in front of white people.
I didn't know that, but it goes along those lines of, you know, exploding and joy andhaving these moments in front of people makes them uncomfortable.
So historically it makes sense to have this fear, right?
You don't startling a white woman was a crime.

(45:27):
And that's, how easily y'all are startled.
The thought of being startled is enough for a whole get ready with me TikTok story time.
eh
You know, but the subjective nature of that, you know, insulting, making grimace, all thistype of stuff.
It's being a human that seems unpredictable.
to the system.

(45:47):
Like you said, the spontaneous joy.
It's not just forced fun, holidays, mother, today is your day to enjoy yourself.
No, when you feel it, do it.
No, that is the opposite of occult mentality.
It's like, if you feel that selfish shame feeling, wow, you must not be so strongmentally.

(46:13):
In fact, we should probably lock you up.
You can't control that.
Let's show you some decapitations.
And I think what that really does is enforce that there are bad guys.
I think that that's why they do that.
They want you to fear those people.
Cause I don't think there's any evidence that says this makes you mentally strong.
This makes you mentally strong in what way?

(46:33):
In opposition to terrorism label, broad label, right?
Terrorists, bad guys, whatever these.
And now I, you know.
Yeah, I mean and that is I mean just look at 9-eleven right just look at 9-eleven and thenour willingness to go really justify anything in 20 years of war because of because There

(47:00):
was this was obvious proof That people out there want to kill Americans, right and that islike what you need right, so
even when you study kind of like totalitarian groups or whatever, like for Castro, right?
Bay of Pigs, best thing that could have happened for him because here was proof, yeah,here was proof that like America's out to get you, right?

(47:28):
And so like, if there is an actual attack, if there was an actual bad thing that hashappened, you know, think about America in the...
80s or 90s, I can't remember, but Adam, the seven or eight year old kid, Adam goesmissing, right?
And like the entire culture changed, right?

(47:53):
To just be like, we can't ever let our children out of sight.
And I remember when my child was very young, I was listening to something that said thatlike there aren't more stranger kidnappings in continental Europe than in the United
States.
And I was like,
shocked because I was like we are so like our parenting mode is like if I look away frommy child they'll be gone I'll never see them again and they'll die the most horrible death

(48:21):
yeah from this like scary out there thing when like one in four children are still beingabused in their homes or by their religious leaders you know like it's not
Then none of that says believe your kids.
It's actually the opposite.
It's control your kids.
Like you said, keep them in your eye vision for their best interest.
It's police your children, not protect them from people around them.

(48:46):
If you really wanted to protect them, the crime stats, you would focus your crimestatistics less on black people and more on cops and domestic violence.
and, you know, sociopathic kids and putting metal detectors in the white schools, not inthe black schools.
That's not where people get shot.
uh Like, it just the answers are pretty simple.

(49:10):
But when you're in a cult, the cult answers are are simple as well.
They're just like, follow the book written by this dead guy.
The rules and they're just tools of manipulation.
It's just like who gets to who are the rules for?
And who are they not for?
Because that's all caste system stuff too.
Rules are to protect some and bind others.
But you're, you're just running around busy, sleepless.

(49:35):
And the person in your house is the, you're the problem.
Like, there's no consideration that you might be the problem.
Remember when there was also ads like, hey, parents, don't hit your kids.
There was a whole song and dance about it.
Don't slap them.
Give them a hug sometimes, ask them how they are.
Do you know where your children are?
Like, we need to get this together.

(49:58):
Maybe the problem is...
mean, the problem is then the circular logic of the book, right?
So in 2018, the American Psychological Association came out and said, folks, the resultsare in, right?
Hitting kids is bad.
Hitting kids is bad.
It doesn't do anything good.

(50:18):
And enough children now have been raised without being hit that we know that, you know,
spare the rod, spoil the child is not a real thing, right?
But because of that, basically stupid garbage, spare the rod, spoil the child, right?

(50:40):
Like parents have literally been terrified into being abusive to their own childrenbecause if you don't do it, you're uh gonna raise monsters, right?
Like that was the concept in the cult, right?
And this is like,
this most heartbreaking thing to me when you read the stuff about the Branch Davidians andWaco is like the FBI notes on how great and well-behaved the children were.

(51:09):
And like the three-year-olds will just sit in the middle of the night for hours watchingDavid give a talk.
And you're like, no, that's not well-behaved.
That's terrified, right?
OBEDIENT!
kids don't sit for hours.
Oh my gosh.

(51:30):
I think my six-year-old child asked me what the word obey was, and I was like, yes.
Yeah, yeah, because what are you talking about?
You know, like just, I remember being a child.
I didn't need a book.
I just remember thinking, hey, hitting my brother doesn't actually make any sense.

(51:53):
Like if he's doing something annoying, because my brain has always thought like this, ifhe's doing something annoying, actually do something that will change that.
Hitting him makes them louder.
Like that doesn't make sense.
And then I would just think, and cause I was like psychology, but I even as a kid, waslike, yeah, but I would be impacted more if you took away my phone, then hit me like, or

(52:15):
took away my access to desserts, then hit like, he's just gonna hit.
I was a child.
This doesn't need a study.
You know how like black people don't need a book.
You were a child, right?
Remember being a child or
But people are just, romanticize and they just separate themselves from the conversationand think in hypotheticals, theoreticals and like, if this were me, I wouldn't want to get

(52:37):
in trouble for doing this.
And instead of like, what's the goal here?
But it's also just, and because again, like if you think so much of what corporalpunishment is, it's just about the children performing well in public, you know?
And like not being spontaneously loud, right?

(52:58):
Just like standing in nice little lines and blah, blah, blah.
And just this like attitude control, appearance control, cult bullshit.
Like that's what it is.
And it's just like,
be smaller.
used to say that, you the hardest part about parenting was like, my child doesn't have agood little soldier mode to snap into, but like, we still have that in our heads as

(53:28):
parents, like from how we were raised, right?
That like, at some point you just gotta like get serious and let's go.
But like, we haven't trained her to be like that, right?
Like we haven't obedience trained her.
And so she just reacts like a human.
And let me tell you, any parents listening, I just at some point was like, she gets a fiveminute warning for everything.

(53:52):
If she's like, can I just finish?
Yes.
And I realized very early on to parenting that demanding instant response is prettyoppressive.
And I think because of like, so in the military, I was an officer.
Every time I walk into a room and there are no other officers there, the first person thatsees me is supposed to call the whole room to attention, right?

(54:19):
So that they all stand up and like give me respect.
And I just put that so together with like these patriarchal families and they're like, youdo it the instant you're asked and blah, blah, blah.
And I was just like, nope, don't like it.
And the second I realized like,
They want transition time just like we want transition time.

(54:41):
Just like give her five extra minutes, work that in.
Like makes everything so much easier.
You know, and people complain about their kids going, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom.
But you think you should be able to just go kid.
And the kid just, that's crazy.
Drop everything you're thinking about doing in the middle of, because I exist right nowand want your attention.

(55:06):
It's like, okay.
I mean, is that the worst thing that they don't, know, that they have their own brain?
Because think about what that means for them outside of your home.
What kind of relationships are they going to get into?
Especially when you know that men or boys or whatever are being conditioned to see peopleas resources for them.

(55:28):
How are you going to make sure she doesn't become someone's energy resource?
Because everything...
outside of the home may kind of lean her in that way, because it's easier for society todeal with her if she just does what everybody else is doing.
Yeah, and I always put this at the end of my child exploitation talk now that teachingchildren unquestioning obedience sets them up for exploitation.

(55:52):
And that's the same thing for our frickin' country and at the government level, right?
Being taught that you just need someone to lead you and guide you and tell you what to do,that is why we are here where we're at right now.
Right.
And asking the people who have told us over and over again, they don't see us as worthy ofmaking our own decisions to allow us to make our own decisions.

(56:18):
The ones who think that what they are sitting there going, yes, we train up children andyou're asking them for permission to live your life the way you come on.
But we have been conditioned that way.
And once I realized to train up a child, like I said, as 30 years old, that means peoplehave been being raised on this.
They are 30 year olds.
who are as old as this book, who are out here with us doing stuff.

(56:42):
That's dangerous.
And I think that is a white people problem.
And because I used to say kids are the new slaves and because yeah, that's acceptableproperty.
People as property and everything you do is in regards to property management.
And you don't, I think you treat property better than you treat the people because yourproperty don't speak back.
Right.

(57:02):
And they don't get on your nerves or whatever.
And you can say they're an investment, it, but this like loyalty dedication.
is not a virtue, like being fully dedicated to something outside of yourself, to someone,the romance, whether it's career, being fully.
Yeah, dedicate it.
That's like what, that's not a more is better.

(57:24):
Sacrificial and serving and give you a shirt off your back.
Stop.
only answer at least right now with like groups being so problematic It's like you justcan't give all of your time or space or energy to like one person or thing or group
because You you know, it's just so easy to exploit you if you do that to isolate you andexploit you

(57:48):
all your eggs in a basket or whatever, or, you know, saying that this is the one wayforward, this is the only way, or there's no way forward.
Those are both wrong.
Like you don't know.
And I think you are more secure if you allow yourself to be unsure because you can bepresent.

(58:09):
that's why people are not present people.
You're taught anything but actually like that whole spontaneous joy.
That it is required that you not be in your body right now and be thinking five stepsahead or whatever, be strategic and calculated.
And you want this job, you got to say things like this.
Tell a story like this by the book.

(58:29):
What book?
That book?
That book is old.
Written by the oldest of the terrible men.
And they're just like, well, you know, and I don't know.
I just, you're not.
Don't be in the business of trying to convince people who are already, who need to beconvinced.
Work on you first, I guess.

(58:50):
you know, there's an interesting thing about self-help books too, and like this categoryof book that is pop psychology, that is outside of the academic world, right?
And like having just spent five years on one that comes out soon, like it's not anunbiased thing, right?
It's, I have this idea.

(59:13):
about my thing that works and I want to show that to you, right?
Like in some way.
Like I, this is my understanding of cults and how it breaks down and I think there arethese culty things in all these groups, so I'm gonna show that to you.
You know, I don't have to, but I don't have to look at things that don't confirm myargument, right?

(59:37):
Like all I'm saying is that these books,
are there, just like a memoir is not an unbiased storytelling of my life, right?
Like I'm telling you things that I want you to think, I am bringing your attention tothings that I want you to notice, right?
So like, I didn't write this like unbiased researched account.

(01:00:01):
I was like, here's my idea, here's why I have this idea based on past work, and thenhere's my like proposal.
But it's still, just to go back to say, it's still, there's an agenda here, right?
I want to give you this information in my way.
And.
it's clear what your agenda is, but with self-help conceptually, when they do thisoverarching, know, stop caring as much, be more confident, these are just random people

(01:00:33):
and they should be saying how I helped myself.
And then I want you to be like, who is this person?
What have they done besides sell this book?
And are they, is what they're telling you reasonable, right?
Because I hate it when people are like, I did this so you can do it too.
And like, you know what?
I did get a one in a million book deal.

(01:00:56):
And like, I can tell you my process.
I can coach you on it for money, but like, I cannot guarantee that you get this.
And in fact, most people wouldn't get it, right?
And like, when I see people that don't do that,
I'm like, nope, this is deceptive.
don't like it.
And that's where I need people to like hone in on what are their incentives.

(01:01:18):
feel like people look at it like, I can help myself.
This is about me.
Like you're not doing enough zooming out to see who wrote this book and why, what are theydoing?
Like when I talk about MLMs and they're inviting you cause you're so special into thisroom and they'd see something in you.
Who is this person?
Why are they in this room today on a Friday?
They're doing this today.
Okay.
So if they helped themselves to get in front of you, that means you're helping yourself todo exactly what they, it doesn't.

(01:01:44):
It doesn't make sense, but it is a how to based on I did it, but you're just a rando justcause you did it doesn't mean others, but that's like that whiteness.
That's the, when it comes to career coaching and I don't like.
even looks at what you're saying is what is the purpose of them putting this out there?

(01:02:06):
Why are they doing it?
I think people look at people who've successfully built a self-help empire and they'relike, I could be that.
But they don't see the whole journey and the whole plan and do you wanna be that?
They just see someone who's like making a living telling their story or whatever.

(01:02:30):
Yeah, there's not a lot of zooming into like that person's day to day and why are theyhere in front of me now?
You're just so focused on you and your, what you can get out of it, the opportunity foryou.
And that's how I think people get in cults too.
Like you're not, you're not special and I need you to know that in like a very nice, kind,loving, I care about you way.

(01:02:51):
Like there's no limited time opportunity that you just got to take this just for you.
Like, no, you are the thing.
and also look like legitimate businesses will legitimately trade money for value, right?
And I feel like, you know, I always say when I look at these posts that are like girl on aboat being like, oh my gosh, I could never have understood and now I'm living my best

(01:03:15):
life.
And when I'm like, when I can't tell what you're selling, that's really suspicious to me.
Right?
Especially if you're out here offering value, like what are you getting in return?
Right?
And I, like to me, I'm just so clear about that.
I'm like, yeah, I'm here offering my perspective on all of these things and my stories andwhatever, and it helps people.

(01:03:40):
But like, I'm doing this because I'm making money and it's allowing me to sell my book andkeep building future products.
And I think like, we're,
selling it.
We're also programmed that like it's suspicious if someone's selling something, like ifindividuals are selling something, right?
Corporations can sell to us all the time.

(01:04:02):
We're seeing ads all the time.
But when an individual wants to sell something, people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
But anyway, I just, think when you're with any kind of like guru, expert, self-help field,
like to really look at like, what is the person doing this getting out of it?

(01:04:23):
Because if it's not just money that you're exchanging for their value, they're gettingsomething else out of it, right?
Like you're gonna end up, in my opinion, giving them your labor in some way, eventually.
attention and your energy sometimes is enough, right?
Because that is just a slow build to potentially someone else's energy and moneyeventually, you know, like with the way TikTok works.

(01:04:48):
I just think, yeah, we tend to project what we would do or like the benefit of the doubt,which is not a sentence, you know, that we need.
with all the panic, all the panic videos and memes and stuff going on.
It's like, what is that person's goal?
Like that person's goal is just to make this video go viral.

(01:05:13):
So they make hundreds or thousands of dollars.
Like.
Mm-hmm.
people really understand the content creators and sort of the background business behindthat, that this is not just someone who's very popular.
because this is their job, this is their job.
And if their job is to scare you all the time, that's how they're getting paid.

(01:05:38):
attention, capture your attention, I need us to look at that language too, to catch youreye, to hook you.
You know, but the incentives are to hook or the incentives are to get and just more.
It doesn't matter the quality.
It's like dollars.
There's good money usually just means a lot.
You know, there is you instead of looking at yourself and going like, how will I feel atthe end of this?

(01:06:02):
And what is this actually worth?
Am I getting worked up over just another person having a feeling?
What's, what's the information behind this?
What's w let me get further context to like,
bring it down a notch, but we are just in the system.
And of course, you know, people look at it and go, what are you trying to get out of me?
Cause they just see their attention is worth so much when it's individuals, but it kind ofreminds me of the like, why didn't she leave?

(01:06:28):
I don't know.
I don't know what it is exactly yet, but they're like looking at individuals as theproblem and not that you're being lied to so often that you don't know when something is
legitimate.
You know, you're uh from a...
cult and a different type of cult and you call the military cult, you like talking aboutthat.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
You know, that's not necessarily self-help in my opinion.

(01:06:50):
It's just like information perspective.
That's what we should be trying to get when we research and learn new perspective,different depth of understanding, not is this good or not right or wrong?
More judgments.
What number is it?
But we're just so caught up in.
What is the opinion to have?

(01:07:11):
I don't know.
And I just want to tell people, be wary of coaches.
I've gotten, you can't see it on my thing here, but career fields, fields, career fields.
You're either in the field or you're in home office.
You're either in the house or you're in the field in a corporate environment.

(01:07:33):
Right.
Cause what is also like, what is corporate America?
Where is it?
Cause we all know what it is, but is it a place?
No.
It's a state of mind.
What does that?
I just, get the plantation corporation connection there because it's just maintainingbodies versus maintaining plants and land.
It's corp, it's body and corporation and plantation.

(01:07:56):
Like it's right there.
They are not creative.
Like all the languages are like, said, why don't they speak up?
Why don't the kids say anything?
Like it's all hopeless romantic swept you off your feet.
Girl stand up.
You know?
I think it's just like making use of what we actually have.
We don't have to create a new thing or like make new acronyms.

(01:08:18):
Just think, well, you know, let's dig into what is actually happening.
Why people look into to train up a child and I can't, multiple children have died, likeconfirmed because of this book.
And you look up this couple, which is a couple and they got together when she was tooyoung.
And it's all just there.

(01:08:38):
They get to direct this narrative.
No one is taking this down.
Kids have died.
Michael Pearl, I think?
Yeah, I know that like many of my listeners, many of my audience like have been verytraumatized by this.
Like you said, like kids have died.
But also, but also like this is one of the things about children of God that peopleconsider to be so extreme is that he said to spank six month old babies.

(01:09:05):
And here it is just regular evangelical America like this book is
a huge cornerstone on how American millennial white evangelical kids were raised.
Like the same exact way that I was with the same exact amount of corporal punishment inthe same way.

(01:09:28):
And that's what's so weird about my experience is like everyone's telling me my thing isso extreme and I'm like, but.
These like evangelical kids or these Mormon kids, like they tell me the same stories.
Right.
Like that's what I've learned.
And you know, I thought I, you know, as much as white people are overrepresented, y'allrepresent very specific things, right?

(01:09:53):
It's very intentional, very calculated.
The PR is, I don't know, it's not that great, but.
The way you're non-human to yourselves first is something black people don't experience,right?
It's like going to the basic training.
You have to go to basic training before you can go out there and treat people like this.
You have to dehumanize yourself and be dehumanized by others before you can then go dothat, because you've seen it.

(01:10:20):
And some people accept it.
Some people just say, I guess that's just the way it is.
You know, there's all these different levels of what are you going to do when there's awolf and sheep's clothing around you?
Do you just not, cause you don't want to stand out.
You don't want to be the black sheep.
What's wrong with being black sheep?
You know, it's just black, it's just black wool.
Whatever, you know, but I, the military, the, the Mormons, the Mormons, you want to talkabout crime?

(01:10:46):
The order, the offshoots of the Mormons, FLDS, the order, the Kingstons, all these things,and you're all focused on Chicago?
Go to Utah, please.
Save these children.
you know, someone asked me if being a military child was like a cult experience.
And I made this video where I just, was like, there's two different ways of being amilitary child.

(01:11:10):
There's being a child whose parents were in the military, but they did not militarize thehome.
And then there's the ones who did.
And like,
You know, I put this line on America in my next book that like, in the children of God, wedon't play, we march.
um Which is from, uh damn it, Sound of Music, right?

(01:11:37):
The von Trapp family children don't play, they march, right?
Literal militarized home.
And like, this is what...
what American white people have been doing for the last 30 to 50 years.
And they call themselves Generation Joshua, right?
And it's this, we are in God's army and you are perfect all of the time and you are alwaysprepared.

(01:12:00):
And like, we don't dance, we march, right?
We don't play, we march.
And it's miserable.
And then you get these little coiriculars, because they don't know anything good.
Levitt, the freaking press secretary.
Like, Carolyn Levitt was raised in this like extreme Catholic version of what we'retalking about.

(01:12:26):
And here she is.
Here she is married to a 60 year old man.
Like, and you just look at her and she just like, she's never experienced joy in her life.
Right?
Like you just see that.
on her face.
that's a good thing.
And that's the sad part is like, that's what black people don't have.

(01:12:50):
Like that is not part of it, right?
is joy matters.
It's joy is something we have because we're human.
are taught, and that is why whiteness is so deleterious.
Like it just, just erases everything from you because black people are out there laughingall loud.
God forbid.

(01:13:11):
God forbid, would hate for that to be me enjoying, enjoying myself.
Like the goals are bad, right?
The goals of goodness are to suffer all the time.
So give them up, you know, you know, one comes and gives you the trophy.
And even if they did, so what?
It just gets dust on yourself, right?

(01:13:31):
It's just one more thing for you to take care of and maintain and care about and show offin desperate need for your life to have purpose.
Calm down.
there's no inherent benefit in suffering.
Being tortured a little bit by the military doesn't actually prepare you for being aprisoner of war, right?

(01:13:51):
that is not, yeah, that's why they do it.
Right, right.
But no, mean, like they equate blackness and like suffering and like, well, now you get totalk because you were a prep.
Like there's this certain, like, there's a validation in a hard experience that whitepeople have the virtue of, but we don't understand it that way.

(01:14:13):
But then they see it as like this reverse cast system of you get this, you, you know,being oppressed is a stripe or something.
Yeah, I definitely see that attitude in like white women who are just like, I'm so jealousof kind of like, I wouldn't say black culture, but like, being a minority right now,

(01:14:38):
basically is what it comes down to, right?
It's like, oh, there's nothing special about me as a white woman.
Like, it's the same thing that...
the angry white men are going through being de-centered and being like, well, we are notconsidered necessarily like the height of beauty or what everybody wants anymore, right?

(01:15:00):
And it's like, I see that.
of like, it was never true, right?
Like you're just aware of it now.
Like you're just making your own decisions.
Like we were saying before and like, but you always were, but like you didn't feel likeit.
Yeah, even some of the things you say when when I remember like, I'm so jealous of yourhair.
Like, it's so cool.

(01:15:20):
And like, it was always cool.
Like, your like, like your hair was always cool.
Black hair has always been cool.
You know, like we were the ones that demonized it and made it not cool.
And like, now it's coming back and being cool.
And like,
I just think there's this thing that I hear with white women that is just like, well, weare being pushed aside.

(01:15:47):
I'm gonna give you this analogy, right?
I go out dressed in like riotous color every day.
My husband is a white MAGA looking dude.
He wears these feminist t-shirts, right?
So we both will kind of regularly get complimented on our appearance.
And then my nine-year-old will be walking there and she'll be like, nobody ever tells me Ilook cool.

(01:16:08):
And she's literally dressed all in beige.
And I'm like, babe, I don't know what to tell you, right?
Like if you want people to compliment you on looking cool, dress cool, like wear somethinginteresting, you know?
there's...
I think we're in this moment where white women have to realize like you can just go beinteresting.

(01:16:29):
You can just go figure out who you wanna be.
Like we talked about this before when they're like, I wish I could wear orange or color.
Like you can, you can just, you can.
I got this scarf in Spain and I just wear it, you know.
You can just do it, but you have to want to do it, but...

(01:16:50):
to realize that whiteness is boring and that cult is silly and not fun.
then, right, so this is the deconstruction of the cult, but you have to be out of the cultand then deconstruct the cult and then figure out who you are.
And we're in this phase, I think, where me, to a certain extent, and lots of women, Ithink, that are on this journey, it's still like, okay, so what's our thing?

(01:17:19):
almost, you know?
that's a legit, right, but that's a legit thing, but it's not in a book, right?
Like it is legitimately true, like our heritage was stolen from us, right?
So my DNA got updated and I went from 10 % German to 30 % German, right?
And more Turkish than before.

(01:17:41):
And I literally was like, no wonder.
I felt so at home in Germany and college.
And then even when I go to Greece and Turkey, I was like, more people here look like me,right?
And just like, everything in all of those cultures, right?
Was just completely taken when you become a white person in America.

(01:18:03):
And there is no answer for that.
And our world is shallow and boring and heartless.
And you know, like the same way that like,
the single strong women who lived outside of like gender norms were literally killed outby the witch hunts.
And now we have the first generation of women kind of coming back and being like childfree jobs, money, ins, right?

(01:18:33):
Like, forging their own path.
um And
friend of mine who's on this path and I were literally just talking about it and we'relike, but there's no book for this yet, right?
Like, she's writing the book right now, like whoever the the next leader of that is goingto be, right?
And I think like, and I think like, that's what's going on with whiteness, right?

(01:18:57):
Those of us that are deconstructing whiteness, like, then we have to build what our thingis, right?
Like, we have to go figure out
what our culture is, the kinds that we can.
to a book uh is part of your culture.
And in some ways, I think that's what it's going to be is embracing the lack that you grewup with and making jokes out of that.

(01:19:22):
Like people make white people jokes, that's fine.
And it's just accepting it.
that can be its own, because we don't know so much of the stuff.
I only learned because I share, but white people aren't taught, you're taught to share inthis very like weaponized way.
You're not just giving, it's only in response to someone sharing.
You're like, well, now it's, I'm going to trauma dump.

(01:19:42):
That's not what we're, it's like connect with other people, but it's, you're not, yeah,you're, you're not going to find it in a book because it's in here.
You were fine the whole time.
Like you are enough, but no, no book by a white woman right now is going to, you guys justgot here.
You're not ready to write a book, but.

(01:20:05):
we were human, we were human the whole time, right?
We just have to like figure out what that means now.
And those men were human the whole time.
And that's, think that should help some women.
Like those books you're reading, those were men.
I always had that in my brain, but that's just cause I was like, I humanized everybody allthe time.
That's how you have to do that.
But even books, I'm going to humanize this book because someone wrote it.

(01:20:28):
And they're like, God wrote it.
I was like, but you said that's not a person.
And they're like, but he's told this dude.
So I was like, so what was his name?
That didn't go well.
Hebrew school did not love me, but.
I had questions, right?
But I do think that white women are gonna have to challenge their, that discomfort piece.
Because you're uncomfortable being perceived.

(01:20:50):
That's the whole color thing is like, I wouldn't wear color because you see that asdangerous.
Being different in a cult, standing out, volunteering, like you were saying, is actuallydangerous for y'all in your heads.
I don't know how dangerous it actually is because I think if you were to make a lot ofnoise, that would scare off a lot of white men.
Like they count on you going.
Right.
No, because we think we know the outcome better if we're nicer to them.

(01:21:14):
But I think if you were like, they would they don't know what to do with that.
They don't like unpredictable, spontaneous joy.
everyone's afraid of bullies, right?
But and so you like, let them bully you.
But very often when you stand up to a bully, like you win, right?
And I think that there is this.

(01:21:34):
easy targets.
They're lazy.
Don't be an easy, like when you go out in all beige, you're actually an easier target.
You're like brightly dressed.
You don't even realize it.
You know, you're blonde and you're this and you're that.
And they're like, look right there.
Easy.
She's seeking, seeking some validation because she's done all these changes to herself tofit in.

(01:21:55):
And the best way to fit in is to be smaller.
Factually, there's only one direction to go.
If you're like,
Increasing your likelihood of fitting in smaller.
Sorry.
We gotta fight against that because that's coming back hard too now.
What a good conversation today.
Thank you so much, Rebecca.

(01:22:17):
Thank you to everybody for listening to Hey White Women, the podcast where we get togetherand knit and crochet and deconstruct white supremacy like the cult that it is.
Please like and subscribe, tell your friends and if you want to see our beautiful faces.
come check us out on YouTube, check out Rebecca's Patreon and those Tenants of WhiteSupremacy that she listed.

(01:22:39):
Links are attached.

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Episode 38 | Growth Is Uncomfortable

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 38 | Growth Is Uncomfortable