Episode 41 | George Washington Didn't Have Wooden Teeth - Hey White Women

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
we sell you the dream that you might be in that 1%, right?

(00:06):
And this is one of those things when I just say even from a business perspective, right?
That like Taylor Swift did this brilliantly, right?
She one time sent some hundreds of fans an invitation to come to her house.
She baked them cookies.
She let them listen to a new album.
So like every white woman in America thinks that maybe Taylor Swift could be her friend,right?

(00:37):
But like, the thing that pisses me off about the George Washington narrative, not thething, there's a lot of things, right?
But like, why do we even talk about his teeth?
Like, why?
Why did we need to talk about the man's teeth in the first place?
Like, why did we go make up this cutesy story that is just fake?
Like, it's just not true.
He did not have wooden teeth, he had human teeth pulled from someone else's head.

(01:00):
Like, they, right in our faces and then keep doing it and to say like, Hey, Hey guys, didyou know his teeth were made of wood?
Who?
We know nothing about anybody else's teeth.
And then we need to know this about his teeth just so that we don't look at the fact thathis teeth were made of wood.
That is our first president.
And just because it was first, it being first is just white supremacist thinking.

(01:25):
That's one of the, you know, sense of urgency, but also like first to market.
You're the first one.
So the first one's into an MLM.
That's why I America's an MLM.
The first ones in are, they win because they created it.
So everyone's a bottom line, down line person.
Down is right in the language.
Like when you had said last week that hierarchy is patriarchal or the patriarchy ishierarchal.

(01:49):
They're the same thing to me.
And they're both like, they're both pyramid schemes of people as property management.
The people are property and body parts and your kids, your building, whatever, same thing.
You own it.
like making it work for you is the only way forward.
But what we were talking about before we started recording, also you're saying, you know,as you build in this system, as you get higher up and you do better, it's almost like it

(02:21):
builds a sense of codependency to it.
like the patriarch, you're right.
So like it is parasitic in that it needs someone beneath it.
You can't just be a patriarch on your own unless you're like Bill Gothard, I guess youcreate a little cult because he had no, he didn't have a wife or kids, but he told
everybody.
a structure there, right?

(02:42):
Like there's still like a hierarchical structure that's in there holding them up.
I mean, I was just thinking about, because obviously we're going to launch Calting ofAmerica soon and I'm indie publishing that book.
And I was just thinking through the language of like, I mean, I'm writing a book,literally pulling apart and critiquing systems, right?

(03:03):
And like the systems that we are in and like, I, I'm not, I chose to not do it.
in the traditional publishing system, in part so that I didn't have to play that game,right?
Like, I'm criticizing Alcoholics Anonymous.
Can you imagine trying to find a publisher where, like, of the 100 people that are gonnawork on that book, like, not one person's gonna have an issue with that?

(03:28):
And like,
and is it like that?
And then I think like, that's how I want us to think about these systems is that they'rejust made up of random people with biases.
Cause to me, why not?
Like my whole problem with social cues, right?
And code switching, know, switching codes and social cues, something like that, right?
Is that it didn't, I didn't get it.

(03:49):
And I'm like, I don't, and I don't want to get it.
Right.
Cause it's all cultiness of like, you believe it's a system.
like publishing as just like merit-based, right?
But then when you grow up as a black person, it's also being aware that people can bereally, really good at something and there's no way they don't end up successful at like
singing, dancing, anything, greater, we're great at everything, honestly, business-making.

(04:15):
But I did also think about one thing is that drug dealing is also an MLM.
Cause all the money you make, you put back in to like buy new, you never really have.
profit in the end.
also then when you build a codependency based on the cult is jewelry and I get to show it,right?
And like.
gangs are cults and terrorist groups are cults and cults are organized crime, you know,like these are all

(04:39):
structure.
The same.
I'm sorry.
The dog is having issues.
an MLM is an MLM is an MLM, right?
Like a multi-level.
That's what America is.
Amway is American way.
also, it has been said many a time that Mormonism is kind of the quintessential Americanreligion, and it's an MLM, right?

(05:07):
Mormonism is just an MLM, and an MLM is more, they're all the same, and ironically,shockingly, the highest per capita MLM is in the state of Utah.
only 1 % make it, that's America, right?
Only 1 % make a profit, that's America.
But it's okay because it's selling you exceptionalism and specialness, like you can do it.

(05:32):
we sell you the dream that you might be in that 1%, right?
And this is one of those things when I just say even from a business perspective, right?
That like Taylor Swift did this brilliantly, right?
She one time sent some hundreds of fans an invitation to come to her house.

(05:53):
She baked them cookies.
She let them listen to a new album.
So like every white woman in America thinks that maybe Taylor Swift could be her friend,right?
Like I didn't even really criticize, right?
But I criticized a tiny bit.
And I tell you, when I wrote those words, I felt a little shaky, right?

(06:14):
Because I was like, what if she reads my book?
And just like, how silly is that, right?
Like I had to take myself and be like, first of all, first of all, most of the most famouspeople in the world probably not gonna read my book, right?
Second of all,
I should still say these things if she does, right?
But it's like this, we've been sold this fantasy that we can be the billionaires, the nextbillionaires, and that these people are just a step away from us.

(06:41):
Like we're just one lucky coincidence away from being multimillionaires and being friendswith all these rich and famous people.
But I think like to take it a step further is like those people aren't good friends.
Like even if, even if that were true, right?
Like I think it's, you know, popping this bubble of you could, if you just work hardenough, you'll catch your tail.

(07:06):
Right.
And then something, you'll get to, she'll see you, you'll get to be friends.
And then you'll realize she's just a person.
Rehumanize these people.
She's just a person and she's probably a terrible, has she been known to be a good friendto any of these people?
Like, you know what I'm saying?
Like see them as people.
And cause I think I was, maybe I was listening to an old episode and maybe you had saidsomething about this before.

(07:29):
And I'm just thinking like, my brain doesn't even go there.
Maybe when I was younger and I'm starting to realize that a lot of white things that whitewomen do, um
I experienced younger, I feel like maybe I get it a little bit, you know, when, when whitewomen get really mad at my content, right?
They feel like I'm yelling at them personally for some reason, even though it's just apage, it's just on your FYP.

(07:51):
And they're like, you need to know this.
I'm going to pray for you.
When I was younger, I hated this guy.
think his name was Tony little because he was like this workout instructor.
And I was like, he yells at my mom.
Right?
He is always yelling at my mom.
And I hated him, but I was young, you know?

(08:15):
And then I started to realize, things exist outside of the here and now and in this time,asynchronous events.
She put it on, right?
oh A lot of stuff.
She laughed at me.
This is a part of maybe the Amelia Bedelia of it all, but like social consequences areokay, right?
But I also think like maybe that's the white woman, Prince Charming.

(08:39):
maybe this guy is Prince Charming.
What does Prince Charming do?
What has he done in his story?
Like, what are they selling you aside from, he makes you feel special.
He makes you feel special.
Like you're the only one in the world.
None of that is good.
You're not special.
There aren't better people than other people.
You know what I mean?
But it's selling you supremacy.

(09:02):
this idea you're making me realize of like the silver bullet of success that is probablyso wrapped up in white supremacy, you know, and I say that like, this is what the process
of the book.
I hate them.
Sorry.
there's no silver bullet, right?
Like this idea that we're sold that we're just gonna get discovered or like one luckything's gonna happen and we're just gonna be launched into the success stratosphere.

(09:29):
that's not how it happens.
We've been sold this, right?
And I mean, we're actively watching the curtain, the ugly curtain of celebrity beingpulled down, right?
With all this stuff that's going on right now and seeing that like even those people whowere in the stratosphere that we were looking at.
We're paying a hefty price for this.

(09:51):
and the windows don't open.
It smells bad.
The knight in shining armor is all sweaty in there and he doesn't wear deodorant becausehe thinks he's too good.
Okay?
Like that's what I need.
you know, maybe that's the version of them saying, imagine everybody in their underwear.
I never really got that one.
And I feel like this is my version of that.
Like everyone's just a person.

(10:12):
And think about the reality of what's actually going on there because they come down andthen they...
Go for more things.
They're not like, phew, done, I feel great.
They're like, I'm selling you it and that you should want it too.
Have you seen something that you actually aspire to?
Someone living a day to day life that looks pleasing or something, not a performance oranything like that, the silver bullet of success.

(10:42):
my goodness.
Success, what's that?
Bullet?
What?
Hold on.
But I do, I get it completely, you know, because when I decided to be white womanwhisperer, part of my brain thought the second I make this name, and I knew it was
irrational a bit, because once I thought of it, I felt like someone was going to steal it.
So maybe that was my white half.

(11:02):
um And then I made it and I thought, people are going to see this name and I'm going to,sorry, blow up, right?
Literally, my God, but I'm gonna blow up and like, I'm gonna, that's gonna totally happen,right?
Cause people are gonna see exactly what I'm doing, all the listening and learning,especially because it was January, 2021.

(11:25):
um That's not how that happened.
I did, you know, get and slow build and have been building since and have done so muchbetter than what I thought I wanted, right?
Cause at that point I was still leaving the call and still thought,
consultant vibes and I don't know, some other thing.

(11:47):
But once I realized, wait, I think growing lean and not building this empire, right, likethis, if I had been found, who would have found me, right?
Like if I had blown up and then who, some random white institution?
And then what?
Explain myself to them?
I always ended up backing down from stuff like that.

(12:09):
I had the chances.
but even just the concept I think we're so lied to, right?
Like look at Beyonce, she's been famous, seems like my whole life and she works her buttoff to produce new stuff, to stay relevant, right?
To stay in the eye, like any of these, it's not like once you're famous, you're justfamous forever, you know?

(12:35):
Like this idea.
right?
idea that just like, I mean, I thought like I got a TEDx talk, right?
And I thought like, I was just gonna be like, everyone was gonna know me, right?
Like, are you kidding?
I'm talking about a cult, I'm telling a cult story, like everyone's gonna know.
And it's just like, you know, actually realizing that like, no.

(12:57):
And you know, to me, social media has been good for this, because it's like, it doesn'tmatter.
You know, I've had videos that hit 2 million, my comments are out of control.
But if I stop posting,
It goes away.
know, like it is literally, you're working at it every day to like keep yourself relevantand keep yourself in focus and keep yourself.

(13:17):
It's like there's no silver bullet.
And I told myself that, you know, when I, and it's like, no, and also it, it almost liketakes away from getting to achieve your, like in March, right?
Goodreads put my book.
under Michelle Obama's in a perfect photo for Women's History Month.

(13:41):
And I just got to celebrate that and just enjoy that.
And I didn't spend any time wondering like, is this gonna launch me?
Is people gonna find out?
Are we gonna know?
Right?
Like, is this gonna be the next step to whatever?
It was just like, oh, this is lovely.
You know, versus this like idea of like, like now I look at it like,

(14:04):
I am building my empire, but I'm building these things that I own and that I've put in theworld in my timeline and I can do what I want with them.
Not like I'm gonna be this thing.
Someday I'm gonna be this thing.
Exactly, right?
happened.
that is the whitest, oh but you have to like make that your own decision.

(14:29):
You have to like devalue it.
so, okay, so I'm glad you brought that up, right?
Because this is the traditional publishing process, is that you have to explain your bookand your story in the context of what has gone before, right?
They call it comps, comparisons, right?

(14:49):
But basically, they're like, tell me exactly.
what your book, and you literally are supposed to explain it, right?
So like my book, the elevator pitch for uncultured was educated meets shoots like a girl,right?
Like this is what we're gonna do.
Not what I actually did, which is I'm gonna do something brand new, right?
I'm gonna give you cult and military in the same story, comparing, not contrasting.

(15:15):
And I'm gonna show you that cult survivors can teach you about more than just survivingtrauma.
Like we also know a lot about groups, right?
Like I'm gonna do these new things.
They're just gonna be like, who's gonna buy that?
It's so weird because couldn't it just be like, read this book and they go, that was good.
I mean, everyone told me it wouldn't work.
And like, here I am finding out that the market for knitting and talking about cults isvery large, right?

(15:36):
But you can't, it was like, like at the time people were like, you can't compare yourcompany to the next Facebook.
And I was like, yeah, but even if Facebook, if Mark Zuckerberg had gone and said he wasgonna have 4 billion users, he would have been laughed off the face of the planet, because
it hadn't been done before.
And the only way,
to explain yourself to these systems.

(15:59):
So what we did with Uncultured, and one of the things I'm teaching, like women, people whoI think their stories need to be in the world, because there's no stories like that out
there, is like, we explained it by themes, right?
So we were like, for readers of this book, whose father escaped North Korea, they're gonnarelate to Uncultured for this, right?

(16:20):
For readers of this book, blah, blah, they're gonna relate to this.
For readers of whatever, like my book is on culture is put in a bunch of lists withdiarrhea van Frank.
Like in no way the same kind of book, but there are themes that are similar.
And that's great by the way, like this is one of the things I hope to teach authors in myclass is like you tuck themes into your story, that's your area of expertise and that's

(16:50):
also your market.
Every theme I've tucked into uncultured.
Like literally, I meet distance runners and I'm like, I wrote a book about running amarathon.
I have all these different themes in there.
But the fact is, I kind of had to fake it to show the publishing industry that I was worthtaking a chance on.

(17:11):
And it was like, instead of just saying, nobody's done this before, of course there couldbe a huge market for it.
You have to be like,
no, but my story actually does fit in this box that you don't think it fits in.
just have, you know, and it's that kind of like.
You're working against the current.
I feel like, especially with social media, like it doesn't need to be that way.

(17:31):
And like, yeah, maybe you could make a bigger sum of money, but what are you paying for?
Like, what is that costing you in terms of how you can use your voice and what you have tothink about before you speak?
That is why I built the Patreon and it, and you know, it's not just a money thing, whitepeople style.
It's like, no, no, no, because I don't want to do.

(17:54):
I don't want to do ads and sponsorships because you can only get paid by either youraudience.
Ooh, I heard the Jersey right there.
Your audience, your audience, platform or brands, right?
Or con you know, the commercial route.
So you can either sell to your audience and they pay you.

(18:14):
So like you become this middleman between the consumer or whatever.
Um, the platform is going to pay you and that they're never going to do that because theydon't have to.
and the people.
And to me, I'm working individually with people, not systems, because I can't connect withan organization.
If there's a word organization involved, that isn't a being.

(18:34):
There's people, right?
Like, if no one is against AA, well, your book, right?
Like if people are risk averse, organizations are risk averse, but it's not even risky.
I just hate how much of the process involves explaining yourself.
Like explaining your expertise of, you had experiences.
Read the back of the book.
I don't understand.
Aren't people just going to go up, read the back of the book, but it's almost like they'recreating their role as the, you know, the middleman, the managers, the overseers, all of

(19:05):
this.
And that's why there's so much money involved and it's so vague and it's a process and youdon't understand who's going to, it's just a bunch of people.
So why not sell directly to those people, but just have a lower overhead because you'rerunning your own little thing on the internet.
You know, it's like, I trust these people more than I trust an organization.

(19:26):
there's this movie called Yesterday and there's this accident and all of sudden theBeatles disappeared from the world and only one guy remembers them, right?
But anyways, there's a part where they're launching him and they're having the bigmarketing meeting of meetings and it's uh Kate, whatever, the lady who was weird Barbie,
right?
know, like funny, satirical, uh from Saturday Night Live.

(19:48):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, Kate McKinnon.
And he's like, it really called the big marketing meeting of the meetings?
She's like, yeah, yeah.
It's a big deal.
And it literally is, I mean, it's this scene would just be perfect for what you're talkingabout, right?
And it's all these people being like, we're gonna launch this and we're gonna make itthis.
And when I tell you, like when I tell you, it's actually kind of sad because everyonetried to warn me, like my co-writer, my agent, like they all tried to be like, hey, just

(20:17):
because you got a big advance, like it doesn't mean this is gonna like take, right?
What I learned was like nobody knows how to predict what's gonna go viral, right?
But I truly believed, Rebecca, I truly believed that when Macmillan Books, right?
One of the four companies that absolutely controls publishing, I truly believe that whenthey picked your book and they said, we're gonna make this big, we'll handle it.

(20:45):
I truly believe that they could do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if they did, it would be on them.
of like the scales falling from my eyes.
And one of the things that Josh Johnson, one of my favorite people alive, said, you he wastalking about Diddy and he was like, people can give you money and people can give you

(21:07):
power.
So people try, especially people who have money and power and fame, try to imply that theycan give you fame.
Right?
But nobody can give you fame.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And that's just kind of like, that's sort of the unpredictable, right?
Fame is the sort of idea that the cult of Hollywood chases and all of the stuff and all ofthese predators try to show up and apply that they can give you fame.

(21:31):
And I'm not saying that the publishing industry is predatory, but I mean, you as theauthor get to keep 15 % of your work.
But they kind of tell you that like, they can make this successful.
uh
I believed it, know, I believed it.
And they would have, they blame you if it, if it doesn't work and they'll take credit ifit does, just like any other organization.

(21:56):
It's the organization.
That's the problem.
Right.
And you think about this language, it's kind of right in our faces, classifications,right.
And we go to class every day.
We are putting these classifications, but also like the governing body.
It's like I said earlier, that's Jehovah's witness language, the organization that couldbe anything, the church, once there's that the in it and.

(22:18):
the publishing industry, the industry, you know, whatever it is, can be, that can meanHollywood, that can mean, if it doesn't matter what the product is and it's treated the
same way, those are MLMs, just like they can rebrand.
That's why it is handled the same way.
These are narcissists systems and we have to call out certain things and realize that somestuff that we deem as negative is only negative in certain aspects like fire.

(22:48):
Right?
Like, I had to put out this fire to put out this fire.
Always in corporate America, they have to put out a fire.
I hated that.
And with my literal thinking, so like, are you, this isn't, but this urgency, right?
Um, but also being burnt out.
feel like white, white people introduced me to the phrase.
Actually, that's not true.
It's black women, but she works with white people.
It being burnt out, um, and, being fired.

(23:12):
Those are failures.
Whoa.
That last part didn't mean to be because sometimes there are such things.
as controlled burns.
In indigenous cultures, they understood that fire was necessary and like natural thingsneed to be burned sometimes to build up new things, right?
Being burnt out means you got out.
Let's focus on the out part.
And yeah, positive disintegration might be involved.

(23:34):
Sometimes depression is the beginning of like a transformation into a new awareness andgetting out of this cult, right?
Of course you're depressed.
You think.
You're worth nothing because you were told you were worth nothing for so long in eitherdirectly or indirectly.
And also, in a cult you get in trouble for being depressed, right?

(23:55):
And you're depressed because you're in a cult, but you're told that you're wrong for beingdepressed.
Mm-hmm.
And that's that whiteness, right?
That's very whiteness.
was just like, there's, I feel like there's a spectrum in some way between like whitepeople being repressed and black people being oppressed because either way it's like this

(24:15):
pressing.
You're just pressing down on your personhood and white people do it to themselves.
And, and, and then when they go out in public and they're like, you're not doing it.
How dare you not be pressing yourself down, especially when I'm doing it so much andthey're just so stressed out.
And we aren't doing that at home though, necessarily.

(24:36):
Or like in community, you don't need to do that.
But then you go out into the world of these, things, the industry, the corporate world.
Think about that.
Like the corporate world.
Where's that?
Where is that?
Corporate America.
We know it as a thing.
Nine to five.
We know it as a way of working.

(24:57):
It doesn't matter what you're doing between those hours, but we're all being overseen bymanagers.
That's slavery.
know, plantation, corporation, I've discussed this before.
Corporation, that's body management.
It's body into something bigger.
right?
Like, I always say this about cults, that people stop at the what?

(25:19):
You believe what?
You believe sex with children?
For the purpose of labor.
You believe what?
you're good, because you help people get sober?
And it's not why, right?
They don't get to the why.
And the why is always to exploit your labor.
And I think one of the reasons that America is like the cultiest culty nation,

(25:40):
is because we were not built without exploitation of labor, right?
Like we were absolutely built on exploitation of labor, like from the beginning, right?
Other countries with ancient histories, right?
Like people built societies to take care of each other.
Like we were built to exploit labor.
Like we were built on the exploitation of labor and...

(26:05):
right from the beginning.
It is get more for less, period.
Get out of it more than you put into it.
It's their own language, right?
That's why I call it the cult of no color.
Capitalism is a cult of no color.
And it's just about codependency and comparison.
We were talking about comparison earlier.
And competition.
You turned learning into competition and categorization into like,

(26:32):
taking apart everything and making it competition to say like, this is where you learnmath.
This is where you learn science.
This is where you learn English.
This is where even that, when you think about it, it could be like mind, body, spirit.
You learn math.
If you study the body in some way, at some point you learn science.
you study what's creative energy will happen in English will happen in communicationstudies.

(26:57):
If it's like that or different ways of teaching, there's, turned it into.
ranks and grades and classes and cast systems and attendance awards and because you know,like I've talked about dance, I grew up dancing and dance classes were fun for me because
I wasn't, I remember even just show, I used to watch YouTube videos of just dance classes.

(27:22):
They still do them now, but it's very much Hollywood.
But in the beginning, was when YouTube was in the good old days, you would just watchthese classes and at the end, do the combos.
I loved it.
I would show my mom and we would just enjoy watching it.
And one time she asked me, does, and nobody's like winning or anything.
There's no kind of competition.
I was like, no, it's just class.
She was like, I just love this.

(27:42):
No part of me ever.
But then I grow up to realize one of my friends grew up dancing, but she hated it.
And I'm like, why'd you do it again?
She's white.
Yes.
She hated it.
Because it was dance competition.
And
They record their judgments while they're thinking, they have to listen to the judges atthe end and they're ranked and they're waiting and the others and the parents come and

(28:06):
they buy all this stuff.
And it's like, it doesn't have to be, a dance studio doesn't have to be in competitionwith other ones, you know?
But there's a lot of money to be made if we put them in competition with each other.
A lot more money to be made, a lot more exploitation, a lot more value to parents, Iguess.
I don't know what that's about.

(28:27):
I even think of running as a sport, right?
And I was a competitive marathon runner.
And for something you can do for free.
For something you can do for free!
And the way people are literally like, yeah, you get a free t-shirt.
Like, oh, for my $150 fee that I'm paying you to run on a road, I get a free t-shirt?

(28:53):
Cool, you know?
Also that's little virtue and suffering.
Yeah.
when I was in my competitive days, like I wasn't gonna run a fun run.
Are you kidding?
Like I'm not gonna do my energy just to go run for fun.
Like no, I'm running for that trophy.
get that.
But it's like, I see it so differently now.
when I, when the third girl passed me, it was just, it was done for me, right?

(29:17):
It was like, I could race until I knew I wasn't gonna be on that pedestal.
And then I was like, all right, this one just doesn't count, right?
Like this was a bad race for me.
It just.
a bad race, a bad race.
and I, my God.
would literally be like, yeah, second place is just the first loser, you know, like just.
I heard that once and I was just like, whoa.

(29:41):
And I didn't really, but then just watching people and understanding like how devastatedpeople were when they lost these games and stuff.
Whenever I would watch these, sports my dad's, my dad would watch, I'd always just, no, Idon't.
We're so upset, but it's like, you're not thinking about the, there is so little joy injust like getting there and like you wrote a book, right?

(30:05):
this is what we have for community in America.
Like if you wanna be an adult that has a community, go sign up for a, you know, like gopay money for a thing where you're gonna compete, cause you're gonna find other people
that are similar to you who also like doing the thing and that, you know.
competing and then you're competing with each other to get the small spots and the bigones and this is the divide the class into the groups

(30:29):
they always joke, right?
They're like, a half marathon is the stupidest named thing because running 13 milesshouldn't be considered half of anything, you know?
Like, you ran 13.1 miles.
ah You know, I mean, it's just, it is.
There's just so much to it that it's like, you know, and it's interesting because I like,

(30:54):
Part of what I truly believed was my literal makeup that I could not change about myselfwas like, I'm competitive.
And I just knew that.
I was actually like, running is actually great.
Because when I was competing for people like in college for brain stuff, like they likedme much less.
Like now I can just get all my competitiveness out in a place where we're supposed to becompetitive.

(31:17):
like, just realizing that like, I mean.
launch a love bomb color of the month club where we're gonna sit around and craft and likemake beautiful things that bring people joy and like I feel like that's gonna bring me
community and there will be absolutely no competition involved and like I didn't grow upeven knowing that was an option you know and this is what really happens when you grow up

(31:45):
under authoritarian control when you grow up under a system
where you are told from day one what your value is, right?
Where you are told to always give 100%.
You know, one of the comments my mom made on culting of America when I talked about theintensity addiction, and she was like, yeah, and you were in trouble if you weren't like

(32:06):
always high on something.
You'd be high on Jesus, you'd be high on the mission, you had to be high on proselytizing,you had to be high on, you know,
always had to have that like always pushing, always trying to better yourself, ahierarchy, yep.
spell it.
When I spell it out, I always put, I put the GH in there and put it in parentheseshierarchy because that's it.

(32:32):
It's just more higher, higher.
And you're putting yourself on top of other people, bodies.
You, in order to always be in competition, you have to see other people as opposed to youin some way.
And then even if you're always competitive with yourself, now one of you was lost.
And now you're carrying around that person and the happy person.
You're never going to feel good.

(32:53):
Because, you know, it's like, we get with yourself.
It's like, oh my god, it's...
Well, and yeah, and say, Anne, if you're a really good cult baby like me, you don't evenneed another person to compete with.
You can just compete with yourself, right?
Like for me, it was like if my runtime on my personal physical fitness test that was onlyfor me to keep my job, if it was not better than every other time I ran before, like I was

(33:18):
destroyed.
I was just like, one time I missed.
One time I missed the goal I was trying to make by seven seconds and I literally threw alittle kid fit and like kicked and screamed and yelled at the ground.
And that was seen as, wow, she's really, she really cares, know, bettering her.
seems, cause men would understand that.

(33:39):
It's like, you're not good enough.
Ah, dang it.
I'm punishing myself.
We like that.
We like that.
you know, it's like, yeah, this keeps you isolated.
This keeps you between like the scarcity mindset and the stranger danger mindset thatwhiteness like inculcates in you or whatever the word is.

(34:00):
don't know if that was the right word, but they, um,
You are, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy of that persecution complex too.
Like you set yourself apart because everyone's jealous and like you're stunting yourselfin other people's narratives that they're also competing with you and they're not even
paying attention to you.
And they're not trying to, you've got this big thing going.

(34:22):
also you know when the only thing you care about is winning the race then everybody'schasing you.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And that's funny because black people have this, know, what we know about ourselves islike, if people are running, if one person is running, honestly, we're running.
What is the first question we're going to ask?
None questions.
Zero questions.
We are also running because we trust Midas.

(34:45):
Run, okay?
And I think that is a better thing to have where white people, you know, you'll be like,what's going on?
Let's give them the benefit of this out.
It's also like community, right?
Like when all the animals are fleeing, like danger, right?
And we don't think people are chasing us when they're running.
And I feel like white women may start running, but they're gonna be like, they wanna catchme, like try to kidnap me.

(35:13):
And it's something I think about with, this is kind of all sorts of like Sherry Papini,right?
Have you heard of Sherry Papini?
Her own gone girl, she went and, honestly, even just saying this, she went and staged ahoax of herself being kidnapped and then came back and.
Um, was like these two Hispanic women did it, but then it turns out it was her and like anex, but it took like years for them to figure out.

(35:37):
Of she's blonde and, has history of lying a lot and whatever.
And then we find out, right?
People like to talk about Carly Russell, but I think there was a lot of white women who doa lot of this kind of thing, but now she's back and she's on her.
Her little spitting thing and dang it.
I knew by explaining, I was going to lose what we were talking about.
What had you just

(35:58):
something about her.
that white girls think they're being chased.
Oh, sorry, meant, yes.
But she was like 32 or something, and she tried to kind of like make this claim that, youknow, they were gonna traffic her or something.
but that, like, you don't take into consideration that, like, that's not as believable asthe media wants you to think.

(36:21):
It's like everyone just wants a white girl who is blind and out in the world.
Like someone just picked her up.
Her phone was like placed very delicately on the ground with some hair strands.
and her earbuds and whatever.
um There was a whole branding thing.
A pimp doesn't brand, they wouldn't just hold you in this house.
The story doesn't make any sense, but this narrative white women have been told and I feellike it's why they get caught up in these like, a man just broke in the house.

(36:47):
And then the police are like.
No, you, they don't want just, you're not all the June in the Handmaid's Tale, either.
Like some of you are Serenas, a lot of you are Serenas, and some of you are just likethese extra green ladies that are Serena adjacent.
You have to stop looking through these media lenses of stranger danger and this, want the,you, they're trying to attack you.

(37:10):
Black women just wanna attack you and bully you and catch you in a lie.
And the black men just wanna.
You know, we're all just living our lives too.
You know, when we're all running, you should just assume we're running for ourselves andyou should identify with that and also run.
But instead it's like, you see a bunch of people running, you're like, those are crazypeople or they're crazy people at me.

(37:34):
And then it becomes, you know, I don't know.
Someone tell me what's going on.
They're not gonna do that.
They're not gonna do that.
You either catch up.
catch up a great left behind is kind of what I used to say to white women on the internetbefore I ever get distracted.
Like you can either believe me and come on the journey or you can be like, Hey, I don'tthink all white women are going to do exactly or are the same even though only white women

(38:02):
say literally the thing you're saying.
Okay.
All right.
Well, I'm talking to the ones who I'm talking to.
You know, you can't be special and then also be like, why aren't you talking to meindividually when there's millions of people in the world?
This is main character syndrome.

(38:23):
One my favorite quotes I like right now, you are absolutely unique and special just likeeveryone else in the world.
And I usually say the foundation of hunt of humility is you are unique, but you are notspecial.
Right?
Like you have unique experiences, right?
But your experience is not unique.
You have how you engaged with it.

(38:45):
We could talk about that, but not like the thing that happened to you is special.
No, that's you're not special for what happened and ground yourself in that.
That's why it's the foundation.
You need to ground yourself and you're not special.
So you are never going to come up to someone who has hundreds of thousands of followersand say, who is the white woman whisperer and then educate me or, or just say, you look

(39:09):
white.
And like, that's going to do something like clearly you think I've been doing this for,but that's what you look like when you start to go, like, I just think I did.
Okay.
I, you think that's exceptionalism.
You would think you are the exception when you say, what if there was a black womanwhisper?
I've that.

(39:30):
Wow.
Whoa.
The only way, you know, that's a white thing.
And that's the cult of no color where you just or you just like come back colonized.
Like if I say something, they say you first.
They take our black fatigue.
That's what that's the thing.

(39:50):
And then.
White people were like, we have black fatigue, which made me learn about the originalphraseology of black fatigue.
Never really heard of it.
Makes sense.
But like white people have been telling me they're tired of this.
I was like, you take a nap.
Don't, you're not woke.
One other thing I want, I just have been thinking about white people and yourenlightenment.
This the word, right?

(40:11):
Like, cause I was listening to Marc Vicente talk about Nexium.
Um, and they were like, yeah, we're selling you business productivity, which is crazy,right?
People joined to be more productive in their businesses.
Those are just words.
If you think about it, executive success programs, programming, executive success.
Those are just words.

(40:31):
They're all just words, but I get it.
I would have been there.
but he said, we're actually selling them enlightenment.
And Mark was like, Whoa.
What's that?
What's enlightenment?
And what's the difference between that and being woke?
Because you're being you're enlightened to what?
Is it like, I see this thing other people don't see?

(40:53):
Because I feel like that's what white people are doing.
They're like, no, no, no, I see.
The bigger picture, oh, that's it.
They think they when they're enlightened, they get to like see the real thing, because Idon't know if they know.
and it's still the language of light, right?
Enlightened.
Which, by the way, someone called themselves a teal sheep the other day and I was like,oh, that's amazing.

(41:17):
That's great, instead of the black sheep, right?
I was just like, hey, yeah.
yeah, yeah, I get that, I get that.
No, no, they were just like, I've always been the teal sheep of my family and I was like,hey, see, there you go, like, yeah.
Yeah, that came up again, once I realized like, was like, this thing that white women do,I trying to verbally process, like, what happens with whiteness, like, I end up on the FYP

(41:41):
again, for talking about the sign about brunch or whatever.
So all these people are coming in that you are obsessed with white women, you areobsessed.
This is sad.
It's so sad.
It's funny.
I'm gonna pray for you.
I'm gonna pray for you.
But the the common theme of like, you are obsessed with white women, we live in your head,we're not free, da da da.
Right.
I didn't get it.

(42:02):
in terms of, I felt like back in school, like it's one of those things that I'm notunderstanding what the insult is from my literal brain because I made the page white woman
whisperer.
I care about white women.
I'm talking about white.
Like, why do they think telling me it's like, yeah.

(42:22):
I also just wanna call out the racism and misogyny in it, right?
So like I get told that I'm obsessed with cults, right?
On my page that I built to talk exclusively about cults.
And my answer is always like, do we say this to men?
Do we say to men that they're too much of experts in something?
Do we say to white women?

(42:44):
I mean, I try to talk about racism every day on my channel and I rarely get told that I'mobsessed with race or that, you know, like I'm obsessed with black women, right?
It's like, why are they bothered?
Like, let's say that's true.
Let's say you're obsessed with white women.
Let's say your special interest is white women.
Why is that a problem?

(43:05):
That's what I like, m even if I think it through.
in African American literature.
You know, we just don't, we don't use, you are too much of an expert in this topic, so I'mnot gonna listen to you against white men.
care.
And someone had said, maybe it's this like reverse of apathy, right?
Like you care about this.

(43:26):
You care about something.
Wow.
Even like back in school, I used to feel like, like you're not supposed to care about thisstuff.
It feels very patriarchal, but like, I realized eventually it's a bit also of the blacksheep thing where it's like, you can be seen.
I can see you, you know, I'm just telling you something about yourself.
Whereas in a community,

(43:49):
We will point things out about you, maybe roast you, as you would say, when you are doingsomething worth roasting you for.
And if people call you ugly and make fun of your looks, it's usually because you didsomething ugly.
And then why are they talking about you?
People don't just, in community, just start talking shit.
But in whiteness, being seen alone, like being seen at all, right?

(44:13):
Someone that said their brothers had, yeah.
having shaved heads, people called them all these names like Q-tip and whatever.
It's like, white people just call people something they look like.
Like, I can see you, I'm seeing something I can identify, that's enough.
And that's an insult now, because even when they say like, you look like you have a lot ofwhite in you.

(44:37):
Yeah, because I do.
But I remember feeling this when I was younger, kids would
make jokes and I just would not get them because I'm not under, I gave you thisinformation.
I'm okay with how I, but in whiteness being seen as the danger, right?

(44:57):
Like you were saying about, you know, would show up in the right place, wear the rightuniform, don't volunteer for anything, blend in as much as, be camouflaged into your
background.
That's how you get friendly fire.
I also want to talk about friendly fire because it's just as deadly.
Right, oh, but now it's weird.
It's almost worse.
Friendly Fire is almost harder to deal with, I'm assuming, I don't know, know, better inmy head than from the bad guys.

(45:23):
And that's why we would rather work with white men than white women.
Because Friendly Fire, now we have to coddle the person who shot their teammate because wehave to make sure, no, it's okay, everybody makes mistakes, don't make her feel, this
don't ruin her life.
Someone died.
But.
If someone from the other team, other team, see what it sounds like as a game, the otherteam shoots someone.

(45:43):
Now it's like, they're a martyr.
Either way, they're still dead, but like at least they're spoken about positively whenthere's friendly fire.
It's like, well, maybe they went in the wrong direction.
We got to figure out what happened.
also there's all the excuses and mistakes.
ah I think it's so helpful when you talk about

(46:05):
even just like the basics of the military, even for people to understand where we're at.
When you talk about just like the things you're chanting, I think it really opens people'seyes.
And just like how I realized having conversations about the basic elements of the Blackwoman experience, even though for me it's a given, that's what people start connecting

(46:27):
with and then they hear everything else, you know, but it's...
Realizing the mil what is the military for and who are they and they're just men who havebeen indoctrinated also, but it's so much easier when you're closer to the top You're like
your tail is longer in the in the chase your tail contest Like you just you were born andyou have a longer tail and you're like guys.

(46:50):
It's so easy uh All you got to do is just reach back back that's and then and we're like,yeah Me personally, I have a Frenchie with no tail
And she's never tried to lick herself because she can't.
there's like, you don't even realize certain things about experiences until you deal withthem.
But I don't know.

(47:10):
just been like breaking things down to the most like basic element of what are we talkingabout?
Lickies and chewies.
Okay.
I, when you hear these things, it's like a humanizes it.
have I told you about snipers?
Which like, obviously if you think about snipers, what snipers do, it's terrible.
But you know, so sniper is someone that lays in wait to surgically kill you, okay?

(47:34):
The number one quality that you need to be a sniper is to be very tiny.
You know who's better at being smaller than men?
Women.
You know, so it's just like, just, there's just this perspective where they're like, we'redoing it this way and we're blah, blah, blah.

(47:55):
And it's just like, didn't even, as they were searching, only amongst the men who couldqualify with the skills to be a sniper, then have to find the really tiny ones.
Meanwhile, not even realizing that like, there's half the population right there.
um And this is with like the second most successful sniper of all time being one, youknow, and it's just like

(48:22):
you're in a cult and you're like, why wouldn't they make this obviously good decision?
When you're in corporate America, I think that's what broke things for me.
Cause I'm like, what do you mean?
can't talk about this very obvious way we could say millions.
It's like, no, no, no, because this person, there's all these reasons, but they makedecisions that make zero sense and you are confused.

(48:45):
And then they gaslight you and say, no, well, you just don't understand.
Black people in corporate America, they're always just talking about how they can't findany and that, you know, they're all at this lower level.
The whole system is designed stupidly.
I don't want more women, to be snipers.
I don't want anybody to be snipers.
What are we doing?
Can we chill out for a second?

(49:06):
No, because we're in a cult.
There's no chilling in MLM.
Every month is the same thing.
It's always going to be the next month.
What happens after that?
We talked about that.
What?
What happens after that?
Another month of this shit.
Stop.
we have, but they just keep you so busy.
Business, busyness, stop building businesses for no reason and start listening to peoplebecause your business and then you're competing and is it a top business?

(49:33):
How am I rated?
There's every time you build a new thing, that's more to manage and think about.
And that's why, again, I scaled down to like, I had to think about myself like that andscale down to Patreon.
I used to have
you know, an Amazon link and my friend does my Instagram and it's just reposted my TikTok,but it's not, it's about being selective with your energy, but also like calling the bluff

(49:58):
of more is better, like more avenues of things, more of this and then said thinking, okay,I am the source of the stuff.
But also the military.
It's just a bunch of people making terrible decisions just like everything else, but inthere in the camo and the digital camo and the, you know, I think it's just like the
silliness of it all.

(50:19):
to call them grown men in camouflage pajamas, just to like really kind of like, and inlike the way, the way I could not believe that seriously grown men in camouflage pajamas
point to themselves and with their full chest seriously refer to themselves as the goodguys and the enemy as the bad guys.

(50:46):
Like.
I think about...
all the energy of playing cops and robbers when we're like 12 years old.
Like it's just...
And I think it's about just like calling those things out, you know, not giving them theweight of what they're supposed to have.
And you see people, ex-Mormons do this with their garments, not maybe not their garments,sorry, they're like wetting the temple, temple gear.

(51:07):
my God, I'm saying temple gear, because I went to temple university and all their stuff,temple gear.
But they're, you know, they're just showing it, taking away some of this, talk about thetop levels of Scientology, talk about just like the root of it.
But I also think it's interesting.
Once I made this connection in my head, it was hard to undo it.
We look at people in the Middle East, we just broadly say Middle East, and women with fullcoverings, and we think, whoa, that is oppression of women.

(51:34):
That's it.
That's what it looks like.
Not the Mormon braids, guys.
Not the Mormon braids and dresses.
Not the long cover your sleeves.
Not anything over here.
Not the men in the camouflage just walking around.
We got so much going on here.
Not the women in Orange County who don't look like women anymore.
Like this is all fine.
Cause we can all the Bama Rush girls looking exactly the same bleach block.

(52:00):
But, because we can look, we look over there and we have to stop with the stranger dangerand be like, you gotta stop talking with your mormons who are scared of outside people.
And like, that's creepy to me.
Y'all got to stop.
And they're all mothers and you're just having them breed and like,
when I tell you, because we had to go through a, so the United States Army gave us a 40hour class on cultural sensitivity before they sent us out into Afghanistan, right?

(52:28):
So just, if you just want to think about what the quality of that was.
Yeah, yeah, but.
One of the things that I'll never forget that one of the women who was out here teachingus like about like headscarves and how they work and they're gonna take us to the bazaar
and buy headscarves.
And she was like, know, Muslim women like believe that this adds to their beauty and itbrings out their eyes and it does this and whatever.

(52:54):
And I just like American women go put on a headscarf sometime.
It does, it does.
I was like.
Ever since that point, I was like, I'm so mad that we left out, we remember movie stars inthe 20s with the head scarves.
like, I was mad about like, why the F did we lose this option because of racism?

(53:17):
And like, it does.
I mean, you have never seen your eyes pop until you put on like a really pretty headscarf.
And just like, just a very small random thing that...
never would have thought about, right?
Never would have had the experience of.
just like, because we only associate, we only talk about it from oppression, from theperspective of oppression.

(53:37):
And from the male gaze in a way, cause I was gonna say oppression, but you know, from themale perspective as well, because we can't see that you're clearly, it's got to be
because, you know, there's just such a limited way of viewing the experience when you're aman and weird, that's who's allowing us to have any opinions on what's going on over

(53:59):
there.
It's like, they look at it like, well, we're not that bad.
That's really what they're saying.
is we're not as bad as that.
We don't make you cover your faces because we like looking at your faces.
We wouldn't want that.
We like looking at that.
You know, it's like there's none of this that is worth participating in conversation wise.
stop talking, our grandmas had it so much worse.

(54:20):
Like, stop, stop.
This is how progress works, yeah.
Yeah.
Cause like I keep saying, I keep saying like, while y'all's grandmothers were in thekitchen telling you to never go back to that, right?
Like the grandpappies were in the living room telling their grandsons how great it was tohave a mommy bang made at home.

(54:40):
And like,
Now here they are thinking they can pull us back to that.
And it's just like, so silly.
You know, like, honestly, they were probably miserable at the same time, you know?
And it's like, even the people who said this is great were having a terrible time.
So stop it.
Like, and that's part of it.

(55:00):
husband, look, under feminism, everybody has more sex, okay?
Just like, what?
Just like.
I used to tell my husband that under feminism, everybody has more sex, right?
Just like, like, get, you know, like the lie, more, yeah, like the lie.
Like when you respect women and treat them well, shockingly, they wanna have more sex withyou, you know?

(55:24):
It's just like the lie of the cult is always a lie.
you know, and this concept of like, I mean, I get it all the time on the internet.
I don't know if you do, but like, oh, your husband must be the most miserable.
And it's just like, so funny to me, because of course, like, I'm married to, I'm marriedto the literal veteran that Magoette dreams about, right?

(55:45):
And it's like, neither here nor there.
But like, yeah, it's amazing that like not being a, if you're not a misogynist, you canlive very nicely with a woman.
who expects to be respected and treated with equal dignity, like shocker.
And they just can't, right?
They can't fathom that I'm not just this man-eating monster, Medusa in their minds,because they only approach me with misogyny and I don't take it.

(56:15):
I never get asked anything about that.
the only references to men that will come up, yeah, I'm thinking about it, um is like, dida, everyone, usually it's a man, did a white girl steal your man or something?
Like, why am I obsessed?
It's more on the obsess thing so that we can see you think.

(56:35):
But they don't see black women as women.
uh
Yeah.
If I talked about a child, then they'd maybe go for my baby daddy status or something likeyou're a single mom.
Maybe, maybe, but they don't even think of me as a person, like, is, this is the firsttime in my life I like to talk about like certain truths we understand.

(56:59):
I've been thinking about like, what is true we hold onto, especially people who've beengassed it.
And what was true for me is like there's certain privileges.
Privilege was true was that men,
acted differently towards me because they were attracted to me in some sort.
That was like one of those true things to me.
It was like, maybe I would have gotten in trouble for something, but I feel the sense thatI'm not getting trouble.

(57:23):
I'm getting this thing because this guy is interested, right?
There's that.
I feel pretty, no, that was the truth.
And also that I was good at being good at school.
I was good at following the leader's instructions in a school setting.
Completing assignments very cultible quality to have I think like the gifted and talentedof it all Because you're rewarded for obeying essentially, but like so those were my two

(57:50):
truths.
knew about myself one is that Managed so to come on the internet and be serving in thisposition is talking to white women and not be seen as a feminine figure at all It's just
so it's more of that like whoa is what?
That's interesting.
And even just so when people talk about pregnancy, they don't think about me at all, maybebecause I don't have a kid that I show.

(58:10):
But like, they don't think about a journey of that, like a thought of that or how old Icould be.
Someone said, I'm not listening to some young woman, blah, blah.
Or being my age at work.
Like men looked at me and thought I was just a young thing, little young intern and I was30.
But anyway, but then once I was starting to get gaslit on I'm good at like, I'm good atthis, I'm smart, I guess you'd say, because when I say good at

(58:33):
being good at school is quote unquote smart.
Cause I think that's a whole, it's a very specific type of Smart enough to follow therules.
I don't know how smart that is.
Cause look, you know, anyway.
So once I started to feel like I had to explain this to some man and I was in my thirties.
So luckily that's when things started to break for me.

(58:54):
I started to have that burnout.
Once I started to say out loud, like I'm smart.
Like it was one of those truths for me that actually was true.
Like this is how people react to me.
This is, I know this.
I don't know a bunch of stuff, social cues and all the, you know, what that joke means toall that stuff.
But I know I'm good at this job.

(59:15):
I know it.
And I think if we can reinforce people with those things, what do you know to be true?
You're good enough.
If I had had that, you know, more, you don't, you aren't waiting to be chosen.
Prince charming doesn't exist.
You know, the fairy tales aren't real type of stuff.
You're not special.
things that bothers, like, let's just call it the patriarchy and all of the peopleinvolved in like the white supremacist patriarchy about kind of like online space taking

(59:47):
away the gatekeepers, right?
Because it's like, you know, I'll do this thing where it's like, I have credentials allnight long.
But the reason y'all listen to me is because I show up every day and I give you usefulinformation about cults that helps you in your life.
And that's why people show up and listen to me.

(01:00:07):
And that's why it doesn't matter what they say.
And it doesn't matter that they try to cut me down.
And it's like, that is sort of the end run around.
I'm literally looking right now, I'm like probably in September, I'm gonna hire anintelligence analyst to give me cult news reports every morning.
Just you watch in six months, Knitting Cult Ladies, give me one of like the trusted newschannels out there because like we can just make that now, right?

(01:00:33):
We can just build it.
I don't have to ask anyone.
Like I already am a source for news for people, you know?
And so it's like that, right?
That level of like we're operating outside the systems, right?
Obviously we have to use some of these other systems and some of these other tools andit's very exhausting, but like,

(01:00:54):
You know, people get whatever it may, right?
Cause I'm on my 10th TikTok channel.
I'm like, yeah, because I'm using it the way I want to use it to make money for myprojects.
And I don't care how many times they kick me off.
I'll just come back.
Like I'm not playing by their rules.
That's why they're kicking me off, but I'm doing it because I'm playing my game.
And it's just like, they can't, they can't, they just can't, they just cannot, but like.

(01:01:21):
do this.
The white people, that's what they say.
I wouldn't do this.
I wouldn't feel this way if I were you.
They don't see the value.
But also it's just like, why?
You know, I've been saying this in my new, I'm in my try and come from my job era and itcomes with a lot of boostiers and corsets.
And so I've just been repeating like, hey, my brain works the same in a blazer or abustier, you know, and they can't, right?

(01:01:49):
Cause there's all these rules.
The systems have given us these rules, right?
And this is what cults do.
They give you a thousand rules and they promise to you that if you follow all of theserules, right, we'll love you just the way you are.
If you're perfect, then everything will go well for you, right?
Everything will be perfect.
And girlfriend, there is no, I'm sorry, I don't know if it was respectful to just call youdisrespectful to call you girlfriend like that.

(01:02:17):
There's, okay, all right, like there's no.
version of me making the same money if I had stayed on the corporate path in this amountof time.
Like it just, no, I am making bonkers more, building a thing I care about, building abrand new, like it didn't even exist before.
What I do didn't exist before.

(01:02:38):
And now I make way more money than them and they just can't, right?
It's like, it's kind of what, it's kind of like what you talk about, like when,
When you realize somebody else is not playing the game, it forces you to realize howfreaking hard you're playing the game.
Yeah.
And imagine you put all that energy into just playing, period.

(01:03:02):
it's also like the fairness, right?
It's like the white supremacy, patriarchal fairness of it all, right?
Like to them, it's not fair.
And I get this, and I get this from white women in the literature world, right?
Like the attitude is it's not fair.

(01:03:24):
It's not fair that Daniela
has a memoir, The Quality of Uncultured, because she didn't do it our way.
She didn't suffer for a decade, she suffered for 35 years.
She didn't, you know, like do it exactly this way in this system.
She got her co-writer instead of an MFA, whatever, right?

(01:03:47):
And they're just so upset.
And it's just like, we are building, I think, a new models.
and new systems, right?
Like this is the third phase, you and I are in the third phase of cult deconstruction,which is moving forward with new models.
Like we are building our own things.

(01:04:07):
We're on our own journeys.
know, Mr.
Knitting Cult Lady and I talk about that like our only tether to reality is our child.
But like we are building our dream life and making sure she's fine, but like we're doingus.
And even that, right?
Like we haven't set aside our own personal dreams.
as parents and you're not allowed to do that in America either, right?

(01:04:30):
And it's how I literally, this was my leaving of the corporate world, right?
So I was working a very hard corporate job.
My spouse was deployed in a very dangerous role.
I had a one-year-old who I was raising in three languages.
Two of them are not my first language and I was so tired.

(01:04:55):
And I was literally sobbing in my office about how hard it was to be like raising my kidin not my mother tongue.
And I was giving myself the talk of like, you're doing this so that she can grow up to beanyone she wants.
Right?
And then I just stopped and I looked around and I said that to myself, said, Daniella,that was fucking supposed to be you.

(01:05:20):
Right?
You are the 15 year old girl who came from a cult.
You are the person who did
all of this stuff.
And literally, like, this was the beginning of me deciding to, write my book and change mywhole life and everything.
Because I was like, when did I give up my dream to be, to be like someone else's mom?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause what would teach her, you know, just giving her opportunity, you know, you have tonourish that.

(01:05:45):
It's not just water.
It's also like attention and dedication and caring enough, but she wants to be like you.
And if what you do is sacrifice everything for her, then she's going to try to gosacrifice everything for something or someone.
gonna feel resentful, right?
And if I was this kick butt woman and then as soon as I have a kid, it just became allabout her, then what's that teaching her?

(01:06:11):
And like.
the motherhood, right?
And it just comes down and it's white and pointy and it blinds you to yourself.
But also it just makes me think, like, I need you to have a graphic novel that's like themotherhood and you're like in the hood of like white motherhood.
Yeah.

(01:06:32):
It either would be motherhood or sisterhood because the Mormon MLM sisterhood thing,because the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, they would talk to each other about sisterhood
and they use that sisterhood.
This familiar, familial comp, like it's so close, right?
But I like the hood thoughts too, because like someone made the hoods, right?

(01:06:53):
Also, like women, those hoods were part of the MLM pitch to join.
Like it costs money to join the k-k-k-k-k
And like the women had their own thing and MLMs are typically run by women, but they'restarted by men like Keith Raniere had women, dominating women.
I just think we have to free ourselves from that competition.
Like this person is obviously telling this to me to be critical, terrible.

(01:07:17):
What kind of sisterhood is that?
Man, how creepy the sisterhood is.
you know, this is something I've learned from you, right?
Like the white women were obviously sewing the hoods, right?
Like when we are learning, especially, especially because like, got it, patriarchy is theOG cult, right?
Like it's in all of it.
And sometimes we can focus so hard on that, but then to just be like, where were the whitewomen?

(01:07:39):
You know, and I've been saying this thing, right?
Like it's always a Jeff, right?
It's always a motherfucking Jeff.
and I've begun to realize that it's because of the fucking white women that name theirsons Jeff, right?
Like it's those ladies that I actually have a problem with.
They're the ones teaching their sons to be the Jeffs.
And then like they're part of it.

(01:08:01):
white women.
know, because it's like you get to the what, not the why.
Why do they treat women like this?
Not because they're just, you're doing the same thing.
You know, they're monsters, all of them, every single one.
How did they, you know.
It's also like, why do these white men grow up thinking that because they have a Johnson,they're better than everyone?

(01:08:23):
Because that's what their moms teach them, literally.
wrong.
I'm standing up for you, sweetie.
No, that's not what he meant.
No, he would never.
Bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh.
Mom, I like to also like the whole boy moms.
Boy moms and girl dads.
What about the girl moms and the boy dads?
We don't talk about those.
It's only, ew, guys.

(01:08:44):
It's very, uh you're doing that thing white people have been doing for a long time.
And you know, and I talked about palatable and people always trying to.
yeah.
are we trying to get eaten?
Like we're making ourselves palatable to the worst palates in the world.
And people got mad at me about that.
Make everything.
way?

(01:09:05):
It's just, okay, this is gonna be a tangent, but like, we have one child on purpose andit's a girl.
And the way people in the 21st century cannot wrap their heads around that, that myhusband is not dying for a boy, that I'm not dying to know the different and even stronger

(01:09:25):
kind of love that mothers can have for sons.
And that we like, we wanted a girl, we...
didn't want a boy, we are very happy with our only girl.
And it's just like, it's so archaic, but it is still in like all of our language and allof our just like the...

(01:09:51):
I'm sorry, like that's so...
as a good little autistic white girl, I love me some Tudor England, right?
And like, the boy moms in white America and the women wishing only for sons.
Like, it's still the same thing, right?
Like, it's just like...

(01:10:12):
I wouldn't know how to answer, because you can, but you know they just mean it, they,that's experiencing white people by the way.
I have literally been told, I have literally been told to my face that I will neverunderstand the kind of love, special kind of love that a son and a mom can have.
Just like, stop, stop.
That is so gross, honestly, and you're putting that on just an entire, that's whydehumanization is the problem and property management.

(01:10:42):
all the, goes with these are the same moms that put heartthrob on their like three monthold baby, you know, just like, mean, it's like you're programming all of this stuff in and
just.
But I mean, just the way that my husband like.

(01:11:05):
has to convince people that he is perfectly satisfied with a girl child and he feelsfulfilled is just...
my gosh, because the downline and the legacy and the name, that's why, why no.
Right?
Like what?
Like how are you gonna stamp your ownership on everything?

(01:11:27):
And just like, I just...
like, did he find someone?
Did he bring your breathing?
Like that's what you're, you're making.
And then you're romanticizing it literally.
Like you're like talking about how this kid's going to love me.
And also the whole you'll never, they just love that.
think to me, that's what I would focus on is not what I would, but what I'm curious aboutis like, you would never understand whiteness come, the exceptionalism of

(01:11:56):
I have an experience you don't have, and it feels like it could have been anything, butthat's a gross one.
like, you just, if people don't have kids, I'm not interested in having a child, right?
ah You never understand.
Yeah, probably.
That's just also.
m
but also do we all need to understand all the things, right?

(01:12:18):
Like I love one of my, one of the books that I love to read, one of the niches that I loveto read is very specifically like fiction or nonfiction, but like African diaspora that
settles in London, right?
Fascinating, right?
I think, it's just a completely different perspective from me.

(01:12:38):
You know, I also like Mao's China sort of set in novels and whatever, you know, and I'mjust like, these are my special interests.
I'm never gonna understand what it's gonna be like to be a black Caribbean immigrant inLondon.
And I don't need to.
I can experience, I can experience the art.

(01:13:01):
I can, you know, like...
Let's see.
I'm gonna go to all these neighborhoods when I go to London and like eat the food andcheck them out, but like, we don't need to have every experience ourselves, but also we
can appreciate like.
recommendation, like, so I was thinking you were gonna say, not even really, what I'mbringing up is like, you're not telling me, hey, you should read this book about, cause

(01:13:26):
you're never gonna experience, you know, I didn't, I don't read that, right?
But you're not gonna tell me you should read because it just doesn't, you're doing whatyou're doing and that's, you're having a good time.
That's where that should end.
That's it, right?
The end.
But evangelizing, the Mormon influencer, like that's why Mormons, it's all about gettinginto someone else's life and telling them, what you really need is the thing I got.

(01:13:55):
And that's all whiteness.
it's the, I wouldn't see it that way if I were you.
If it were me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's so individualistic, so imposing and self-inserting in other people's lives.
It's just, to me, that's where it's confusing.
Cause it's like, you'll never understand.
That's so, where did that come from?
ah I don't have a boy.

(01:14:15):
That's just information.
Now it's like, well, let's talk about, you'll never understand.
You're just narrating stuff.
You're just, you're just because there's just like, my experience has been so good.
So with yours.
The way that people felt like it was their personal job to convince us to have more thanone child.

(01:14:36):
I mean, it was just fascinating.
And because we literally spent a year deciding, right?
And during this year, we talked about it a lot with a lot of different people because wewere really trying to decide what we wanted.
And the way people like first of all, would tell us you have to have two kids and thenimmediately tell us how hard and miserable it was to have more than one child was

(01:14:57):
hilarious.
But just like, I literally started to say to some people, like, hey, y'all know this isnot a group decision, right?
And then finally, like when we made it surgically final, it was just so nice, because itwas like, all of a sudden random strangers don't feel like they need to try to like
convince us.
And just like, it was just one of those literally being pregnant and becoming a mom is thething that made me start studying culture.

(01:15:23):
Right, because it's just so bonkers and people are so out there.
And I grew up in such a different way that I was just like, this is, this is crazy.
like, but like the amount of societal, like literally having to be like, hey, y'all, thisis not a group decision.
We're not, we're not deciding if it's fair that Danielle is only gonna have one chat.

(01:15:43):
Like stop, stop, you know, like, yes, yes.
that's typical.
Cause you know, like I grew up, I never made a decision or didn't make a decision becauseit wasn't, it's like, you know, we talk about the lack of, my mom didn't push anything on
me.
So it wasn't like I decided.
And I thought if I don't feel extremely strongly about this thing and I know, and Ilistened to black women, I don't want to do that.

(01:16:07):
If I don't want to do that, right?
That's enough for me, but it's not like I'm fighting against or people are
It should let your...
And they never thought about it.
I think they both also are neurodivergent and realize they're not raising the child.
I grew up knowing that.
My dad always was like, well...
But also my older brother came from Jehovah's Witnesses and was so adamant on nevergetting married, never having children, that I knew that was one of those types of

(01:16:35):
personalities.
It was very aggressive about it.
The marriage, the government...
I'm like, okay.
I didn't feel that way.
but I never got to the place where I felt I definitely want to and so I didn't.
White people need to chill a little bit about other people.
There's so much, I think that's the repression now that I think about it.

(01:16:56):
Because you should have so much going on in your head that you think about and what do youwant to do with your life and how little things can have such impact that.
You couldn't think about what other people are doing and have such strong feelings aboutit.
It was so interesting because literally right like when he had the no baby surgery all ofa sudden people just realized that like No, you don't have to care about this right like

(01:17:22):
you're not taking care of that child.
That's not your spouse like that's not your future baby That's being talked about like Allof a sudden they were just like yeah, you know it was it was just it was just such a weird
No, just like that.
didn't have a say anymore
in our marriage, right?
Because we've gone and done the surgery.
But like, was just such, it was a very interesting shift to just be like, people wouldliterally argue us.

(01:17:49):
Like it was so, it was very much this concept of kind of like your white lady womb is apublic asset.
So if you had surgically changed it, I think it would have been a different experience.
Different experience.
I mean, different for many reasons, right?
Because it's actually way more invasive, but also would be way more invasive socially.

(01:18:10):
Because I know even if Black women who have to fight to do this, because they don't wantto waste a womb, I heard a phrase of some Christians talking about wasting a womb.
I have a friend who has terminal cancer who was getting her ovaries taken out so it wouldstop feeding her terminal cancer who has three children.

(01:18:32):
And the first question the doctor asked her when she said, take out my ovaries is what ifyou want to have more children?
Yeah.
Like, are you fucking kidding me?
She wants to spend a year with her children that she has.
I just-
Like, as if she didn't think about that.

(01:18:53):
As if she didn't even think about it.
like this is why we do this work like this I mean, this is just
We can't, that's because the systems do things like that.
Yeah, yeah, because a doctor, because a doctor, a professional person, actually said thatout of their mouth.

(01:19:14):
Well, and the one thing about-
an already existing mother who's dying of cancer.
The doctor, the doctor of it all is also what I talk about, like with the uniforms and thecostumes of everything is that if a doctor, and I want to do something with doctor and
doctrine with the Mormons as well, you know, their body is a temple, but if a doctor saysit's okay, plastic surgery, Botox, poison in your face, Botox, please get it.

(01:19:38):
Ketamine is fine because of Botox.
Go get Botox because you can get laughing gas when you get the Botox for free, becausethey offer it.
And sugar, so much, right?
So like,
A doctor, if a doctor is involved, worship of the written word, in my opinion, And a pleato authority or whatever, but you know, the coffee is so bad because it was hot drink and

(01:19:59):
now it's coffee.
There's all these things, but if a white man, cause that's what doctor is to them, right?
Like a white man who reads, says, no, that's fine to put that botulism talk to right inyour face because we want you to look great, but your body is a temple.
The temple.
Lots of temple stuff and white and delightful and all that, zoom out and plastic surgery.

(01:20:23):
ladder is made of...
Mm.
The ladder is made of bodies.
my gosh.
Stop trying to climb it.
That's a good title.
That's gotta be our title for this.
I think that has to be a title for like a book or an essay or something that you do.
Maybe it won't be written.
Maybe it'll be like a one woman show though, you know?
um
black sheep in a white colt.

(01:20:43):
That sounds like a poem.
was like, that's, that's true too.
There's so many.
to come tell you how good I have been doing my homework because somebody yesterday waslike, you're invited to the cookout.
And I was like, no, no, I'm not ready.
Okay.
Very nice.
Thank you.
get what you're saying, but I'm not coming.
I'm still learning.

(01:21:04):
uh
go into the cookout, you bring your plates, cups or ice.
That's what they say.
first reaction was like, no, Rebecca says no.
They meant it well, but you you had the good instinct to go.
It's an informality.
don't, they don't show up.
like when you don't know how much you don't know, you're very like motivated.

(01:21:26):
And now I'm like, I know that I'll never be ready for the cookout, you know, or like I'llalways be the white woman that doesn't know what she's doing, right?
Like, and I just, yeah.
part of the family, but you may be invited.
They'll be like, oh, man, call ladies.
You know, eventually, when you're a couple.

(01:21:47):
okay, you said bring plates?
Nothing that the stove is involved, no cooking, they are not gonna touch it.
I'll tell you that, you bring plates.
Yeah, yeah, everything wrapped in plastic because they're.
strawberry mango salsa.
That's my party thing.
that's a, wow, that probably tastes really good.
It's like pico de gallo, but instead of tomatoes, I put strawberry mangoes.

(01:22:10):
It's delicious.
black people are not going to eat it, but it's not an insult.
They don't trust food.
They will say, we don't eat from just anybody's house.
We don't eat from anybody's house.
And I learned that I didn't grow up with that, but I'll eat it.
But overall.
I do have one thing going in my favor though, is that I love okra, because I grew up inBrazil.
love ochre too.

(01:22:31):
I like that texture, but I think people are like hit or miss with it.
But let's say, and you'll listen.
I think that's really the biggest deal.
If they say, Hey, you know, just sit over here for a little while.
You're not going to argue with them, right?
You're not gonna, and it can be that easy, but yeah, would suggest, know, don't make anydance trends or anything and be like, I am I invited?

(01:22:51):
I hate when white people do that.
Am I invited to the cookout guys?
Look, I have rhythm, you know, don't make one of those salsa videos.
I know you do, but don't make the video.
rapping Apocalypse Bible verses the other day on the internet.
People were like, ah, can you drop some bars?
And I was like, all through time and down through the ages, we've been told by wise men,the prophets and the sages.

(01:23:13):
But also, you know that you did this?
The guns.
think that's really interesting when white people do rap stuff, especially from that age,the 90s.
Yo.
Yeah, for anyone listening who doesn't have the context here, this is because our cult wasseriously racially appropriating rap in the 90s.
And there's a video of me and six other white children rapping Apocalypse Bible verses.

(01:23:38):
And we're gonna make fun of all of that in the Cult Baby musical.
And...
They'll cancel, cancel past you, but it's like, this is how you, no one wants to cancelyou.
That's just funny.
That's just funny.
it's hilarious.
I can't wait because it's like, he's gonna come down and blow them all away.
And then my chorus is gonna go, blow them all away.

(01:24:02):
Very cute-like though, like a cute cult.
I blow my mind, right?
I shared this video once and this woman says to me, she said, my God, I grew up watchingthis.
Like, and I never understood how they got you to do this.
Right?
And I'm there like going like, they starved us and beat us and raped us and kept ustrained only to perform our whole life.

(01:24:26):
But the thing is, that's not what it looks like, right?
We look like happy, bouncy.
blonde children that nobody can believe they actually convinced to do this thing becauseit's so ridiculous.
And like, that's the whiteness of it all.
That's the like
Like you don't look past this and go, okay, so kids wouldn't do this.

(01:24:46):
I wouldn't do this.
That must mean there's this going on to me.
Like that she would look at that and be like, how they get you like, know, that rhetoricalquestioning that just stopped so short of identifying that I, we can see the context.
I can see the camera a lot of times.
I grew up also being behind the camera, my dad, but it was personal.
So I couldn't even imagine being having to be put on for like,

(01:25:08):
public performance.
I felt like I was put on for family performance, you know, but like even that was justlike, I would hate for that to be on the internet now.
So there's just so much relating you can do that isn't, why did you stay rhetoricalderogatory?
Like, white people, terrible questions.
Join questionnity, it's my cult.
We actually value questions?
How dare you?

(01:25:30):
How did you get you to do that?
What the heck?
this like, almost like the ladder is made of bodies, you know?
It's like, yeah, we were one of the most successful white performance cults we sung at thefucking White House.
And like, it was literally our bodies, right?
Like our being tortured, being imprisoned and enslaved and all of that.

(01:25:50):
And like, it just looks like shiny white Christian children and it's shiny, happy people.
I literally call it shiny, happy exploitation.
And it goes back to this like, we're told that trafficking looks like little brownchildren in Brazilian slums, not these little white children singing in the Brazilian

(01:26:11):
slums, smiling.
if you're smiling, white people are like, see, there's a picture of her smiling.
You know that I can do that on purpose.
It's the way, like the amount of autonomy people take and give away to people uh forwhatever narrative works for that wouldn't happen to me.
That person shouldn't be speaking about this because look, she was having a good time.

(01:26:35):
The idea of picture perfect, I want white people to really think about as a phrase.
Like, have you seen it?
It's only.
hindsight, H-I-G-H, you're high on hindsight, and like, people smile over time when theydon't mean it.
What do you mean?
you probably know who said this.
I wanna say it was Nora Zeal Hurston who says, if I didn't talk about my pain, they wouldkill me and say I enjoyed it.

(01:27:01):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you suffer in silence, that's what they want.
and I had that moment, right?
And I was like, no, right?
Like we have to talk about all of it.
We have to pull it all out.
have to like.
And people feel better when they are confirmed in this way.
Like, let's stop confirming that people are bad and let's start confirming that you werefine the whole time.

(01:27:26):
Regardless of what the bad and the good and the...
Okay, anyway, like, you were fine.
You're interesting.
Like they tried to make you a blank slate, canvas for them to paint on, smooth surfaces.
No, you got texture and experiences and a wealth of knowledge and get out of my business.

(01:27:48):
And you know what I love the most?
In this video where I had never made a free decision in my life where I was beingcontrolled and I was dressed by someone else in a way that we never would have been
allowed to dress ourselves, I'm still the child wearing the most outlandish outfits.
I'm still wearing fluorescent pink with pianos flying across them.
Yes, we'll be recreating for the, right?

(01:28:08):
And it's like, I was still this kid.
I was still me the whole time.
Like they still were like, we're putting you in, you know.
what we really, I want people to envision is like this journey is just uncovering.
It's just brushing off all the dust of however long you were asleep.
And now you're being awoken enlightened.
No, you're not being enlightened.
actually, I mean, you're being awoken because you're white.

(01:28:30):
So you're awoken.
Yeah.
Right.
You're going to be awoken.
We stay woke.
We've been woke.
You're going to awake up and you're just going to go, wait, I was fine that whole time.
Hold on.
What did I like?
What did I pretend to do in the mirror?
That probably has something to do.
What are my special interests?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, And if someone doesn't want you to say it, that's weird.

(01:28:55):
Why are they in your business like that?
Yeah, there's this great deconstruction artist that I've been listening to and she has aline where in a song called Skinny and she says, was literally trying to disappear.
She reads it a few times and then she says, but guess what?
I'm still here.

(01:29:15):
And it just like, I say that to myself all the time and it just like gives me the chillsand stuff, you know, and it's like every time I want to make myself smaller or whiter or
easier to get along with.
It's just like, no, just you or you the whole time.
And no matter what you do, you won't disappear.
Like in both ways, right?
Like no matter how hard you try, that's not gonna happen anyway.

(01:29:37):
So like acceptance is really your only solution.
You can keep trying, but it's just gonna taste like tail once you catch it.
If you can catch it, if you got a tail, you're just gonna be like, yeah, I don't know whatI was expecting.
They sold it a lot more.
You you went into the temple, they did a creepy thing, then you caught your tail.
Oh, you're so good.

(01:30:04):
Yeah.
Well, there are better goals and having fun is a good goal.
Having fun running.
I'm sorry.
Every time I see a person like I ran a marathon, I'm like, okay.
Why are you telling me also?
Cause I'm just like, congrats.
Congratulations.
I don't know.
You suffered a lot.

(01:30:24):
That's what I'm hearing.
Why'd you do that?
I don't even know how to tell you how many 26.2 miles times sixes, but I've run that many.
so many miles and like if you enjoyed them great but I don't know what else it's just alot like you know just a lot
part of it, right?
Like, I don't even know.

(01:30:45):
I don't even know if I liked working out.
I don't even know if I like working out.
I don't know if I like running.
I was running 60 to 100 miles a week.
I don't even know if I like it.
I feel like that's the waking up is once we realized I had that whole, I had to like pickup hobby, put them down and go like, wait, do I naturally want to do?
I don't know if I want to do this because it looks interesting.

(01:31:05):
It'll make me, I don't know.
And so being able to deconstruct, break it all down and then pick up what you are inclinedto pick up.
And as you uncover, you know, all that stuff.
But geez.
even just for me, it's even just realizing like, I don't have to love working out.
I can just exercise not to punish my body, just to feel good.

(01:31:29):
And that's okay.
And how hard that is for me, like.
I feel that way about cleaning because it feels like a chore.
I also, at one point we should talk about chores because you mean living in a place youenjoy.
Like once I start realizing, oh, I enjoy certain elements of a clean place.
Messy, I'm okay with, but certain, oh, this isn't because I have to.

(01:31:53):
The living room has to be tidy just in case someone shows up like this policingsurveillance.
No.
Actually, I'm excited to wake up and come out here and see that just like this kind ofstuff is put away.
I don't know, the novelty of a new space.
I like moving things around, stuff like that.
But like when you're, when you mix in regular rules with like these arbitrary rules andmake them all the equal weight, it starts to, you don't know what is real.

(01:32:23):
you know, like murder is next to thinking about doubting the leader.
Those are the same level of sin.
your bed.
You don't have to make your bed.
It's not, it's a made up thing.
It comes back to like, take a beat and a seat, guys.
Y'all are really intense.

(01:32:43):
I have to tell you this one.
My nine-year-old, okay, my nine-year-old, she came down the stairs ready for school andI'm like, my gosh, you look so grown up.
How do you look so grown up?
She just looks at me, she goes, skin care.
Okay?
oh
Like, you know what, I'm taking this energy of a nine-year-old thinking that theirskincare is why they look good and snappy.

(01:33:09):
I'm like, I'm just gonna go into the world.
Obviously, big girl things.
So cool.
I don't know why I wanted to tell you that.
I just wanted to tell you that, because it seemed like just, you know, there's the system,there's the system, and then you can just be awesome and be yourself.

(01:33:36):
And that's what I'm learning the most.
I'm so excited to see you.
You all are gonna have missed this by the time you hear it, but Rebecca and I are meetingin person tomorrow in New York City.
There's a happy hour.
It's gonna be very fun.
Yay.
oh
apartment.
I'm getting up at five o'clock in the morning to go to New York and then hosting an eventat 5 p.m.

(01:33:58):
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be fine, it's gonna be fine.
uh We're gonna be fine.
no matter what.
like once we get there, we're just huh, huh.
I'll be all hopped up on coffee, we'll be fine.
Thank you so much for this conversation.
The ladder is made out of bodies, you all.
Stop climbing it, it's weird.

(01:34:19):
Follow Rebecca on...
They're climbing bodies and they're sunburnt and miserable.
follow Rebecca on her Patreon, always new stuff to think about, give your mind a workout,and thank you for following our channel.
Please like and subscribe, and we will see you next week for increasingly interestingconversations on deconstructing the cult of white supremacy.

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Episode 41 | George Washington Didn't Have Wooden Teeth

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 41 | George Washington Didn't Have Wooden Teeth