September 10, 2025 • 20 mins
Advocacy for scientists is a skill that can transform how research impacts the real world. In this episode of How to Protect the Ocean, host Andrew Lewin reflects on an article by Melissa Varga from the Union of Concerned Scientists that encourages scientists to step into advocacy roles. Andrew shares why many researchers hesitate to speak out, the cultural challenges within academia, and how advocacy can be integrated into a science career without sacrificing credibility.
Ocean conservation also depends on people outside the scientific community. Andrew emphasizes that anyone, scientist or not, can play a role in advocating for the ocean. From joining local campaigns to supporting policy initiatives, small steps build a movement that strengthens the voice for conservation. This episode highlights how advocacy can feel intimidating at first but ultimately becomes a natural extension of caring for the ocean.
Website:
https://blog.ucs.org/melissa-varga/new-to-advocacy-3-tips-for-early-career-scientists/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This episode is for any of you who want toknow how to become more of an advocate for
science, for conservation, for the ocean.
It doesn't matter if you're ascientist or not a scientist.
This episode is for you.
And today I'm gonna be talking aboutan article from Melissa Varga from
the Union of Concerned Scientists.
(00:20):
She wrote an article showingscientists how to become advocates.
You can be anybody who to dothis, but especially scientists.
We're gonna talk about why it's difficultfor scientists to transverse over into
advocacy and some of the hesitations thatwe might have, but also how a lot of us
become advocates and we don't even realizeit, but it's usually later on in life.
We're gonna talk about allthis on this episode of the How
(00:42):
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to another exciting episodeof the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, andthis is the podcast where you find
out what's happening with the ocean,how you can speak up for the ocean,
and what you can do to live fora better ocean by taking action.
Now this podcast is really an exampleof how a scientist can become an
(01:04):
advocate because as any of you whohave listened to this podcast, like
whether it's this episode or a numberof episodes or all 1800 episodes, which
by the way, I hope that's not the case,but if it's this, that's pretty cool.
It's essentially a product of mewanting to stand up and speak up for
the ocean for a number of differentreasons through my personal life and
my professional life that I felt that Ineeded to do as part of being a scientist.
(01:27):
'Cause let's be honest, for allthe scientists who are listening
out there, and I know there arequite a number of you, I know some
of you have been on this podcast.
Some of you have been guests, some ofyou have been my friends for a long time.
Others have just gotten toknow me through this podcast.
We know that as scientists, we justwant to do science in a lot of ways.
Like when I first started my career, Iwas like, I want to be out on the ocean.
(01:48):
I want to use cool technology.
I want to discover morethings about the ocean.
I want to have an impact on the ocean.
At the beginning though, it wasn'tnecessarily about conservation.
It wasn't necessarily about having alegacy where I'm convincing people or
trying to tell people about the ocean sothat they can lack for a better ocean.
It was more of, I just wannadiscover new things about the ocean.
(02:08):
I wanna find new species.
I want to learn new things aboutsharks, marine mammals, you know,
penguins, all these different types ofcool species that I grew up watching.
I want to know more about them.
I want to like travel the world.
I want to do all that kind of stuff,but I want to stick to the science.
It's all I wanted to do.
I just wanted to stick to the science.
No politics, no advocacy, no activism.
I didn't wanna be seen as one of,quote unquote those people or those
(02:31):
organizations like Greenpeace,like Sea Shepherd, like Ocean
Conservancy, like Oceana, a lotof different places like WWF.
But what I soon realized as I startedto mature within my career in my field,
those organizations are based in science.
A lot of them are based inscience and some of them have
even become more based in science.
Greenpeace has taken a major shift,not away from activism, but the
(02:52):
way they do activism and advocacyis more with science, you know.
Some can argue that Sea Shepherdhave done the same thing.
I haven't followed them as closelyas I have Greenpeace because I know
some people who work there, but itis a lot different now, and I find
it's an evolution as a scientist.
If you've noticed, if any of you have beento conferences or any of you have spoken
(03:13):
to people within your work space, whetherit's older individuals that have been
working in this conservation field or inthe science field for like 30 years plus,
20 years plus maybe even 10 years plus.
You see a lot more people getting tiredof being rejected, getting tired of
putting out the science and not beinglistened to or putting out the science
and people ignoring that science and doingthe opposite of what's been happening.
(03:36):
We see it in every field,especially these days.
The medical field.
But now, we've seen it happen inconservation time and time again.
Every once in a while we'll get a winand something has changed, be based on
the science and it works out and it'swonderful, but it doesn't happen as often.
And a lot of the times when we'reyounger, as we're coming through, and
this is not to blame anybody 'causewe've all been through it and I'll
(03:57):
talk about some of the reasons whywe don't become advocates sooner.
We're just getting like our feet wet,so to speak within this career field.
We're trying to get a full-time job, getpaid normally, live a proper life, but
we're just trying to do as much as wecan within the field of marine science
and marine biology so that we canenjoy what we've always wanted to do.
Live the dream, right?
(04:17):
Now when I hear people say,Hey, ask people how you doing?
They're like, I'm living the dream.
And it's kind of sarcastic.
So it's not really like, oh, I'mliving the dream, but I'm not really,
it's kind of a bit of a nightmare.
And when things happen, where yousee drastic reductions in funding,
drastic reductions in the rhetoricthat comes out against marine science,
marine conservation, and so forth,it becomes really heavy on everybody
(04:40):
because no matter who you are, youcould be scientists who do really
non-political, very unbiased work,which is what science is, and all
of a sudden that becomes biased.
People designate that that's abias, that's a political leaning.
And if you think this way, you are,you know, leaning one way or another.
And because one party is in government andnot the other, we're just gonna cut that
(05:02):
entirely because we don't agree with that.
And that, again, that's happeningacross all fields, especially
in the US happening in Canada.
About 15 years ago, 10, 15 years ago.
Not as drastic as what's happeningin the US but it's happening.
This is not like a political thing at all.
This is more of how scientistsneed to become more advocates.
Now I did just read an article, reallygreat article by Melissa Vargas.
(05:24):
I'll link to it in the show notes.
She works for the Unionof Concerned Science.
She's a science network seniormanager at the Union of Concerned
Science, a great organization.
She wrote an articlecalled New to Advocacy?
3 Tips for Early Career Scientists,and it's called The equation.
The publication was September 3rd.
So this is for this month.
It's part of like an earlycareer scientist month.
And it's really recognizing likethere's a lot of added stressors
(05:46):
that are facing new scientists.
You know, we're looking at federalfunding reductions in the US.
Immigration and visa hurdles arehappening, like a lot of scientists
have come from outside the US, outsideof Canada where I live, and have
really contributed an immense amountof knowledge to science in general as
well as marine science in this casebecause it's a marine science podcast.
(06:08):
But there's also a lot of problems withthat because now with this rhetoric
going on, immigration and visa hurdles,there's threats to deportation.
And of course, widespread attacks onscience, it forces a lot of researchers
to leave the US, forces teams to bebroken up, forces labs to be broken
up and that is devastating to science.
That is devastating to the researchthat is happening within these
labs, within these science teams,whether it be collaborators or not.
(06:32):
A lot of times science is donebased on collaboration, even though
there's problems within that.
But there's a lot of things thatare really harming the work aspect
and the funding aspect of doingscience in today's world and
that is a lot politically driven.
Again, I don't want this to bepolitically, but it is politically driven.
There's this mindset that theless science we know, the better,
(06:52):
and so we're going into a very differentdirection, which is stressful in a
lot of other ways than just, you know,having a career or becoming an advocate.
But what it does drive people to do,especially early career scientists,
is to kind of like, bring their headup from working so hard and trying
to just find regular paying jobs.
Like in marine science, so a full-timesalaried type jobs, which, let's be
(07:16):
honest, there's not a lot out there.
And it becomes difficult.
They kind of bring ourheads up and be like.
Well, hold on a second here.
Like, I didn't even havea chance to work for NOAA.
I didn't have a chance to work for theEPA, you know, all the funding's cut.
I was brought on.
I thought I was, you know, startingwith these great organizations
that have a history of doing reallygreat marine science and then all
of a sudden I get cut outta nowherejust because I was on probation.
(07:38):
And so that is really difficult.
And so you become a little bitmore of a, we need to start
talking about what's going on here.
You become more of an advocate,not only for your own job, but also
for the field in which we work, inwhich we love growing up, seeing and
watching and going to school for.
It inspired us to go to school, spend,you know, hundreds of thousands of
dollars just to be able to be paidadequately or not even at all, because
(08:02):
now there's something going on and itfeels like a war against science, whether
it's marine medical or what have you.
It's become a real problem.
It's forcing us to movein a different direction.
It's forcing a lot of scientists,whether we wanna become advocates or not.
It's forcing us into a new direction.
So Melissa Varga some tips, and Ireally think these are great tips.
(08:22):
I might have some to add on,but I wanted to go through this.
I want to highlight what these tips arebecause I think this is really important.
The one thing is, is you're not alone.
We can build a community of scientistswho could become advocates, right?
One of Melissa's pointsis advocacy is a marathon.
It's not a sprint.
You have to find peoplewho have shared values.
(08:44):
There might be some point of advocacy,which you don't agree that, you know,
you need to follow, and there mightbe other points that you could follow.
It's a wide field whenyou get into advocacy.
There's certain policies that you may wantmore than others, or you may find that you
can add the most quote unquote expertiseor want to add the most effort on.
So find that community.
Find the people who want to know moreabout a specific policy that you want to
(09:07):
advocate for, or like, if it's somethingin general, find that community of
like-minded individuals of shared values.
And work with them tomake some changes, right?
There's a lot of just oceancentered groups, as she suggests.
There's marine conservation organizations,like local chapters or global groups
like Surf Rider Foundation and Oceana.
There's also Ocean Conservancy.
There's WWF, there's Unionfor Concerned Scientists.
(09:30):
There's a network such as the 500 WomenScientists focusing on marine policy.
That would be a great one if you'rea woman or you are an ally to
women rights and women in science.
University and local campus environmentalclubs, those are really great because
a lot of times people in academia oruniversity students tend to have a lot
of passion when it comes to this 'causethey will be advocating for their own
(09:51):
marine fields and their own marine jobs.
And eventually, like, you know,that's what's really gonna happen.
But emphasize like how communities offerthe emotional support that you need, the
training, the shared resources and theaccountability, especially when you're
looking at funding cuts and uncertainty.
So there are organizations outthere, whether they're societies
or whatnot, they offer trainingon how to become an advocate.
(10:12):
They may offer training on somethingcompletely different that might offer
you more of a job when you get outtauniversity, or if you just got outta
university, it might be a more impactful.
Like conservation marketing.
Behavior change and how to getpeople more into conservation.
There might be like an MBA programthat you can go into or go back
into grad school and there might betraining on something specific that
(10:33):
has maybe a little bit more resiliencyin times that we're facing right now.
So look at those groups,look at those aspects.
And there are people out there, thereare organizations out there, there
are funding and helping people out.
Balean, which is a friend of thepodcast, Bart Oor and Saunders Brienen.
They were just on the podcast.
They are creating an organization, afoundation that is there to support
(10:54):
individuals and individual projects whomay not get the same equal attention
from funding groups or may not qualifyfrom those funding groups, or there's
just not enough funding around.
They're bringing funders and thoseprojects together because they think
these projects are important andthey want funders to be able to also
see that these are important tohelp fund these types of projects.
So that's an important aspect, lookingout for these different groups.
(11:16):
Now, when you're networking,when you're looking for these
groups, go on Facebook groups.
Be careful of the typesof Facebook groups.
You can get some bad players in some.
There's LinkedIn groups that are reallygreat or just even on LinkedIn and just
be able to put that option out there.
Be like, Hey, I'm looking for a groupthat is interested in sea turtle
protection policy, or I'm looking fora group that wants to get the manatees
back on the Endangered Species Act.
(11:36):
You know, I'm looking for that.
Or water quality in Floridaor something like that.
There are a lot of differentgroups out there that could help
and you can find them online.
There's some Reddit groupsthat are always great.
I'm not familiar with Reddit, but I heardthat they offer some really great things.
There's also a lot of people writingabout this type of stuff and where
you can meet or where you canaggregate online as a community.
So those are always great as well.
(11:57):
So that's something that's important.
So look out for those types of groups.
Those are something thatyou're gonna want to do.
Know that you're morethan just a scientist.
You're also a constituent.
Melissa really puts that home on thisarticle and I think it's really important.
One of the things that you dois you have this expertise.
I've been guesting on other podcastslike they're environmentally focused
or just like world changing focused,where they're looking at people
(12:18):
who are trying to change the world.
And I've been trying to spread theword, not only my podcast, but
also others, and types of stuffthat's going on in the ocean.
It's really interesting how when I speakto somebody that is not familiar with
Ocean, they will come tell me and they'llbe like, I didn't know any of this,
and I feel like it's a simple thing.
You know, I was just ona podcast the other day.
Even before we got on the podcast,I was just talking about the Shark
(12:40):
Meat episode I did earlier this week.
We talked about how peopleare eating shark meat.
They don't even know it.
Not just in Brazil with kids orpeople in prisons or at elderly care
facilities, but also, you know, peoplewho are buying fish that don't even
realize that those fish are fraudulent.
It's actually shark meat that'scarcinogenic or has arsenic
or mercury levels and thenjust don't even realize it.
(13:02):
And the host was like, her mind was blownthat they didn't know this kind of stuff.
Sometimes explaining the stuff that'sgoing on in a way where you're like,
yeah, research showed this and I cangive you the articles if you really want.
They don't really wantto see the articles.
They want to hear the stories,they want to hear what's going on.
And maybe some of it is doom and gloom,but sometimes like I did not know that.
How can I help?
And then you can just doit on an individual basis.
(13:22):
So talking to not only policy makersgovernment agencies, and your government
representatives, but also talkingto just people in your community.
One person I really respect andadmire, Dr. Andrew Thaler, who's been
on the podcast a number of times.
He was talking about being the chair andjoining the sort of a climate commission
for his town and he put in a tide gauge.
We did that episode where heput it into tide gauge just to
(13:44):
kind of measure the tides in St.
Michaels in Maryland andthat's like an important thing.
It's a small local scale, but there'san education part of it for the town
and for the kids that are in that town.
But also there's a application to it tofind out like what's gonna get flooded
when things flood and how often is itgonna get flooded, let's get the data
behind it because they don't have it.
And I thought that's really interestingto just take part in your community and
(14:05):
be able to engage with those communities.
And also, you know, start a podcast, starta social media channel, and be able to
talk about the things that you know about.
Not necessarily in a scientific way, butalso in a way where people can understand.
It really helps everybody out.
Recognize and also resist the overwhelm.
There is a lot of disinformationand information overload
that can cause fatigue.
(14:27):
I do a lot of work in terms ofputting stuff out, like consuming
information and it's a lot andI have to take breaks sometimes.
Sometimes my voice needs to take breaks.
This summer, I had a lotof problems with my voice.
But there are times where you need tojust kind of sit back and digest some
things and just relax and just understandthat there are bad actors out there and
they have strategies that are really,really great all the way from the
(14:48):
fossil fuel industry and providing hugemisinformation campaigns to the point
where it's like people just don't wannalisten or they have their own facts and
their own sources and stuff like that.
and that could be really bad.
So limit your exposureto some of those parties.
You're probably not gonna convincethem of anything that you want to
convince them of or provide facts for.
(15:08):
Recognize that there are emotionaltactics that people try to do.
There are times when I post about climatechange and immediately I will get somebody
in being like, climate change's not real.
This is all just a hoax.
Look at this YouTubevideo, blah, blah, blah.
And you know it's, all biasso don't fall for those things.
And sometimes I do, I haveto admit, sometimes I do.
But try and get out of that kindof way of doing things like that.
(15:28):
But also don't make itstop you from posting.
The way I look at things I post for peoplewho want to know more about the ocean.
These are people who arelooking for information.
That is my audience.
I'm not posting for people whoare hell bent against me getting
this information out and trying totear me down at any point in time.
That is not what I'm about.
That is not what I'm doing.
Also, the small steps matter.
(15:50):
You know, so start now.
Doing local things, talking to your localcity council, talking to local business
people, just having those conversations.
That's really good.
Small actions today matter,even if it's just with a friend.
Providing that information isso good for a scientist to do.
'cause people actuallycare about what you do.
They are genuinely curious.
(16:12):
And if you try and stay away from someof those topics that are triggering
politically, you can get away witha lot and say a lot of great things,
factual things that people will be like,it doesn't matter which way they lean.
People are like, oh, I didn't know that.
Oh, that's kind of cool.
Like, your job is so cool.
That's really nice.
And even if it's not part of yourjob, you can talk about the ocean
the way you know it, and I thinkthat's really important to do.
(16:33):
So share science not only locallyand with friends and family, but also
through social media that really helps.
Volunteer with beach cleanupsor community workshop.
If there's a committee or there's ameeting or something, you can always
volunteer, say with that governmentagency and say, Hey, you know what?
I'm a local scientist here and I knowa lot about this type of subject.
I'd be happy to answer any kind ofquestions people might have or help
(16:54):
out in any kind of way that might help.
You know, But reinforce theidea that every ocean advocate
started with a single step.
And that is like small things.
You gotta start small.
Before I started this podcast, I washaving like so many conversations.
I was gonna say hundreds and thousands.
I don't know if it's a hundredsand thousands, but I was having a
lot of conversations about what'sgoing on in the ocean and I was
surprised that people didn't know.
(17:15):
So I scaled it up and I went to apodcast and now I am where I am.
And so now I'm talking tothousands of people every episode,
and that's important to me.
That's nice to know that people arelistening and people want to know more and
more about what's happening in the ocean.
So this is something that we needto do as scientists all the time.
I'm not saying you have to go outand protest each and every day,
(17:37):
but there's advocacy to be had.
There's information to beshared, and it's up to us.
It's the responsibility of thescientists to share that information.
Now, you also have to be carefulhow you share the information,
who you share it with.
Like I said, you don't want to be goingto people where it's just triggering
for them and they're not gonnalisten and they don't want to know.
That's fine.
You know who those people are, youdon't have to engage with them if you
don't want because that's emotionallydraining sometimes, and it can be
(17:59):
dangerous in certain situations.
So what I would suggest is you put outinformation where you know the person
is going to take it, and is lookingforward to knowing more about it and wants
to do something better for the ocean.
And so if you can speak to the peoplethat are doing that, which I believe
are most of the people in and aroundthe world and in around your community,
then I think that's a great thing.
It doesn't matter, like try andstay away from saying politics.
(18:22):
You can criticize a government, whetherit's a democratic government or Republican
government, or leaning like liberalleaning or left or right leaning.
You can criticize a government.
That's fair to do, butcriticize it without emotions.
Don't just say, this person's adouche and I don't like this person,
so I'm gonna criticize this stuff.
You can say that, Hey, by taking awaythis regulation, it puts this animal at
(18:42):
risk, or it puts this coastline at riskor it puts water quality at risk, or
just conservation in general at risk.
You can say that.
Because you're a scientist and yousay it based on like, this is what
the science is saying and thisgovernment is going against that.
There's nothing wrongwith criticizing a policy.
There's governments that I voted forwhere I still criticize their policies
'cause I don't agree with everything.
We're not supposed to agreewith everything that they do.
(19:04):
And sometimes, and a lot oftimes governments mess up.
You know, whether it's individuals ofthat government and in power or on
the opposition or whatever, people messup, politicians mess up all the time.
That's what makes politics so difficult.
But you could vote for something andstill criticize their policies if
you don't like what they're doing, ifthe environment is important to you.
All governments are bad for theenvironment in one way or another.
(19:25):
You just have to look at which one'sthe least harmful to the environment.
But this is what I wanted to covertoday because I feel like a lot of
scientists, we try and stay outta that.
Like, I'm not an advocate,I'm not an activist.
I'm not gonna stay outta that.
I just want do the science.
Oftentimes we have to not onlyadvocate for ourselves, but we have
to advocate for the environment.
We are in the environment all the time.
We see the degradation that's happening.
(19:46):
Some scientists, and maybe that's whythe scientists who have been in the
field for 10, 20, 30 years will seea big problem and then start to say,
Hey, this is really degraded over mylifetime and I don't want to see that,
so I'm gonna start talking about it.
But if we do that throughout our, likewhen we see the small things happen
before it gets too big and too negative,maybe we can have a difference when we
advocate as we go through our career.
(20:08):
It's important that scientists speak out.
It's important that scientistsspeak up, whether it's through a
podcast, TikTok, Instagram, Discord,
Reddit, whatever it is, even justlocally, it's important that we speak
up, speak out, and protect the ocean.
I wanna thank you so much forjoining me on today's episode.
If you have any questions orcomments, please let me know.
Leave in the comments below, ifyou're watching this on YouTube, or
you can contact me in a couple ofdifferent ways through Instagram at
(20:31):
how to Protect the Ocean, just DM me.
at Speak Up for Blue on TikTok, andof course you can go to the website,
speakupforblue.com/contact and youcan just leave me a message there.
It goes right to my email.
I wanna thank you so much forjoining me on today's episode of the
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin fromthe True nor Strong and free.
Have a great day.
We'll talk to you next timeand happy conservation.
This episode is for any of you who want toknow how to become more of an advocate for
science, for conservation, for the ocean.
It doesn't matter if you're ascientist or not a scientist.
This episode is for you.
And today I'm gonna be talking aboutan article from Melissa Varga from
the Union of Concerned Scientists.
(00:20):
She wrote an article showingscientists how to become advocates.
You can be anybody who to dothis, but especially scientists.
We're gonna talk about why it's difficultfor scientists to transverse over into
advocacy and some of the hesitations thatwe might have, but also how a lot of us
become advocates and we don't even realizeit, but it's usually later on in life.
We're gonna talk about allthis on this episode of the How
(00:42):
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to another exciting episodeof the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, andthis is the podcast where you find
out what's happening with the ocean,how you can speak up for the ocean,
and what you can do to live fora better ocean by taking action.
Now this podcast is really an exampleof how a scientist can become an
(01:04):
advocate because as any of you whohave listened to this podcast, like
whether it's this episode or a numberof episodes or all 1800 episodes, which
by the way, I hope that's not the case,but if it's this, that's pretty cool.
It's essentially a product of mewanting to stand up and speak up for
the ocean for a number of differentreasons through my personal life and
my professional life that I felt that Ineeded to do as part of being a scientist.
(01:27):
'Cause let's be honest, for allthe scientists who are listening
out there, and I know there arequite a number of you, I know some
of you have been on this podcast.
Some of you have been guests, some ofyou have been my friends for a long time.
Others have just gotten toknow me through this podcast.
We know that as scientists, we justwant to do science in a lot of ways.
Like when I first started my career, Iwas like, I want to be out on the ocean.
(01:48):
I want to use cool technology.
I want to discover morethings about the ocean.
I want to have an impact on the ocean.
At the beginning though, it wasn'tnecessarily about conservation.
It wasn't necessarily about having alegacy where I'm convincing people or
trying to tell people about the ocean sothat they can lack for a better ocean.
It was more of, I just wannadiscover new things about the ocean.
(02:08):
I wanna find new species.
I want to learn new things aboutsharks, marine mammals, you know,
penguins, all these different types ofcool species that I grew up watching.
I want to know more about them.
I want to like travel the world.
I want to do all that kind of stuff,but I want to stick to the science.
It's all I wanted to do.
I just wanted to stick to the science.
No politics, no advocacy, no activism.
I didn't wanna be seen as one of,quote unquote those people or those
(02:31):
organizations like Greenpeace,like Sea Shepherd, like Ocean
Conservancy, like Oceana, a lotof different places like WWF.
But what I soon realized as I startedto mature within my career in my field,
those organizations are based in science.
A lot of them are based inscience and some of them have
even become more based in science.
Greenpeace has taken a major shift,not away from activism, but the
(02:52):
way they do activism and advocacyis more with science, you know.
Some can argue that Sea Shepherdhave done the same thing.
I haven't followed them as closelyas I have Greenpeace because I know
some people who work there, but itis a lot different now, and I find
it's an evolution as a scientist.
If you've noticed, if any of you have beento conferences or any of you have spoken
(03:13):
to people within your work space, whetherit's older individuals that have been
working in this conservation field or inthe science field for like 30 years plus,
20 years plus maybe even 10 years plus.
You see a lot more people getting tiredof being rejected, getting tired of
putting out the science and not beinglistened to or putting out the science
and people ignoring that science and doingthe opposite of what's been happening.
(03:36):
We see it in every field,especially these days.
The medical field.
But now, we've seen it happen inconservation time and time again.
Every once in a while we'll get a winand something has changed, be based on
the science and it works out and it'swonderful, but it doesn't happen as often.
And a lot of the times when we'reyounger, as we're coming through, and
this is not to blame anybody 'causewe've all been through it and I'll
(03:57):
talk about some of the reasons whywe don't become advocates sooner.
We're just getting like our feet wet,so to speak within this career field.
We're trying to get a full-time job, getpaid normally, live a proper life, but
we're just trying to do as much as wecan within the field of marine science
and marine biology so that we canenjoy what we've always wanted to do.
Live the dream, right?
(04:17):
Now when I hear people say,Hey, ask people how you doing?
They're like, I'm living the dream.
And it's kind of sarcastic.
So it's not really like, oh, I'mliving the dream, but I'm not really,
it's kind of a bit of a nightmare.
And when things happen, where yousee drastic reductions in funding,
drastic reductions in the rhetoricthat comes out against marine science,
marine conservation, and so forth,it becomes really heavy on everybody
(04:40):
because no matter who you are, youcould be scientists who do really
non-political, very unbiased work,which is what science is, and all
of a sudden that becomes biased.
People designate that that's abias, that's a political leaning.
And if you think this way, you are,you know, leaning one way or another.
And because one party is in government andnot the other, we're just gonna cut that
(05:02):
entirely because we don't agree with that.
And that, again, that's happeningacross all fields, especially
in the US happening in Canada.
About 15 years ago, 10, 15 years ago.
Not as drastic as what's happeningin the US but it's happening.
This is not like a political thing at all.
This is more of how scientistsneed to become more advocates.
Now I did just read an article, reallygreat article by Melissa Vargas.
(05:24):
I'll link to it in the show notes.
She works for the Unionof Concerned Science.
She's a science network seniormanager at the Union of Concerned
Science, a great organization.
She wrote an articlecalled New to Advocacy?
3 Tips for Early Career Scientists,and it's called The equation.
The publication was September 3rd.
So this is for this month.
It's part of like an earlycareer scientist month.
And it's really recognizing likethere's a lot of added stressors
(05:46):
that are facing new scientists.
You know, we're looking at federalfunding reductions in the US.
Immigration and visa hurdles arehappening, like a lot of scientists
have come from outside the US, outsideof Canada where I live, and have
really contributed an immense amountof knowledge to science in general as
well as marine science in this casebecause it's a marine science podcast.
(06:08):
But there's also a lot of problems withthat because now with this rhetoric
going on, immigration and visa hurdles,there's threats to deportation.
And of course, widespread attacks onscience, it forces a lot of researchers
to leave the US, forces teams to bebroken up, forces labs to be broken
up and that is devastating to science.
That is devastating to the researchthat is happening within these
labs, within these science teams,whether it be collaborators or not.
(06:32):
A lot of times science is donebased on collaboration, even though
there's problems within that.
But there's a lot of things thatare really harming the work aspect
and the funding aspect of doingscience in today's world and
that is a lot politically driven.
Again, I don't want this to bepolitically, but it is politically driven.
There's this mindset that theless science we know, the better,
(06:52):
and so we're going into a very differentdirection, which is stressful in a
lot of other ways than just, you know,having a career or becoming an advocate.
But what it does drive people to do,especially early career scientists,
is to kind of like, bring their headup from working so hard and trying
to just find regular paying jobs.
Like in marine science, so a full-timesalaried type jobs, which, let's be
(07:16):
honest, there's not a lot out there.
And it becomes difficult.
They kind of bring ourheads up and be like.
Well, hold on a second here.
Like, I didn't even havea chance to work for NOAA.
I didn't have a chance to work for theEPA, you know, all the funding's cut.
I was brought on.
I thought I was, you know, startingwith these great organizations
that have a history of doing reallygreat marine science and then all
of a sudden I get cut outta nowherejust because I was on probation.
(07:38):
And so that is really difficult.
And so you become a little bitmore of a, we need to start
talking about what's going on here.
You become more of an advocate,not only for your own job, but also
for the field in which we work, inwhich we love growing up, seeing and
watching and going to school for.
It inspired us to go to school, spend,you know, hundreds of thousands of
dollars just to be able to be paidadequately or not even at all, because
(08:02):
now there's something going on and itfeels like a war against science, whether
it's marine medical or what have you.
It's become a real problem.
It's forcing us to movein a different direction.
It's forcing a lot of scientists,whether we wanna become advocates or not.
It's forcing us into a new direction.
So Melissa Varga some tips, and Ireally think these are great tips.
(08:22):
I might have some to add on,but I wanted to go through this.
I want to highlight what these tips arebecause I think this is really important.
The one thing is, is you're not alone.
We can build a community of scientistswho could become advocates, right?
One of Melissa's pointsis advocacy is a marathon.
It's not a sprint.
You have to find peoplewho have shared values.
(08:44):
There might be some point of advocacy,which you don't agree that, you know,
you need to follow, and there mightbe other points that you could follow.
It's a wide field whenyou get into advocacy.
There's certain policies that you may wantmore than others, or you may find that you
can add the most quote unquote expertiseor want to add the most effort on.
So find that community.
Find the people who want to know moreabout a specific policy that you want to
(09:07):
advocate for, or like, if it's somethingin general, find that community of
like-minded individuals of shared values.
And work with them tomake some changes, right?
There's a lot of just oceancentered groups, as she suggests.
There's marine conservation organizations,like local chapters or global groups
like Surf Rider Foundation and Oceana.
There's also Ocean Conservancy.
There's WWF, there's Unionfor Concerned Scientists.
(09:30):
There's a network such as the 500 WomenScientists focusing on marine policy.
That would be a great one if you'rea woman or you are an ally to
women rights and women in science.
University and local campus environmentalclubs, those are really great because
a lot of times people in academia oruniversity students tend to have a lot
of passion when it comes to this 'causethey will be advocating for their own
(09:51):
marine fields and their own marine jobs.
And eventually, like, you know,that's what's really gonna happen.
But emphasize like how communities offerthe emotional support that you need, the
training, the shared resources and theaccountability, especially when you're
looking at funding cuts and uncertainty.
So there are organizations outthere, whether they're societies
or whatnot, they offer trainingon how to become an advocate.
(10:12):
They may offer training on somethingcompletely different that might offer
you more of a job when you get outtauniversity, or if you just got outta
university, it might be a more impactful.
Like conservation marketing.
Behavior change and how to getpeople more into conservation.
There might be like an MBA programthat you can go into or go back
into grad school and there might betraining on something specific that
(10:33):
has maybe a little bit more resiliencyin times that we're facing right now.
So look at those groups,look at those aspects.
And there are people out there, thereare organizations out there, there
are funding and helping people out.
Balean, which is a friend of thepodcast, Bart Oor and Saunders Brienen.
They were just on the podcast.
They are creating an organization, afoundation that is there to support
(10:54):
individuals and individual projects whomay not get the same equal attention
from funding groups or may not qualifyfrom those funding groups, or there's
just not enough funding around.
They're bringing funders and thoseprojects together because they think
these projects are important andthey want funders to be able to also
see that these are important tohelp fund these types of projects.
So that's an important aspect, lookingout for these different groups.
(11:16):
Now, when you're networking,when you're looking for these
groups, go on Facebook groups.
Be careful of the typesof Facebook groups.
You can get some bad players in some.
There's LinkedIn groups that are reallygreat or just even on LinkedIn and just
be able to put that option out there.
Be like, Hey, I'm looking for a groupthat is interested in sea turtle
protection policy, or I'm looking fora group that wants to get the manatees
back on the Endangered Species Act.
(11:36):
You know, I'm looking for that.
Or water quality in Floridaor something like that.
There are a lot of differentgroups out there that could help
and you can find them online.
There's some Reddit groupsthat are always great.
I'm not familiar with Reddit, but I heardthat they offer some really great things.
There's also a lot of people writingabout this type of stuff and where
you can meet or where you canaggregate online as a community.
So those are always great as well.
(11:57):
So that's something that's important.
So look out for those types of groups.
Those are something thatyou're gonna want to do.
Know that you're morethan just a scientist.
You're also a constituent.
Melissa really puts that home on thisarticle and I think it's really important.
One of the things that you dois you have this expertise.
I've been guesting on other podcastslike they're environmentally focused
or just like world changing focused,where they're looking at people
(12:18):
who are trying to change the world.
And I've been trying to spread theword, not only my podcast, but
also others, and types of stuffthat's going on in the ocean.
It's really interesting how when I speakto somebody that is not familiar with
Ocean, they will come tell me and they'llbe like, I didn't know any of this,
and I feel like it's a simple thing.
You know, I was just ona podcast the other day.
Even before we got on the podcast,I was just talking about the Shark
(12:40):
Meat episode I did earlier this week.
We talked about how peopleare eating shark meat.
They don't even know it.
Not just in Brazil with kids orpeople in prisons or at elderly care
facilities, but also, you know, peoplewho are buying fish that don't even
realize that those fish are fraudulent.
It's actually shark meat that'scarcinogenic or has arsenic
or mercury levels and thenjust don't even realize it.
(13:02):
And the host was like, her mind was blownthat they didn't know this kind of stuff.
Sometimes explaining the stuff that'sgoing on in a way where you're like,
yeah, research showed this and I cangive you the articles if you really want.
They don't really wantto see the articles.
They want to hear the stories,they want to hear what's going on.
And maybe some of it is doom and gloom,but sometimes like I did not know that.
How can I help?
And then you can just doit on an individual basis.
(13:22):
So talking to not only policy makersgovernment agencies, and your government
representatives, but also talkingto just people in your community.
One person I really respect andadmire, Dr. Andrew Thaler, who's been
on the podcast a number of times.
He was talking about being the chair andjoining the sort of a climate commission
for his town and he put in a tide gauge.
We did that episode where heput it into tide gauge just to
(13:44):
kind of measure the tides in St.
Michaels in Maryland andthat's like an important thing.
It's a small local scale, but there'san education part of it for the town
and for the kids that are in that town.
But also there's a application to it tofind out like what's gonna get flooded
when things flood and how often is itgonna get flooded, let's get the data
behind it because they don't have it.
And I thought that's really interestingto just take part in your community and
(14:05):
be able to engage with those communities.
And also, you know, start a podcast, starta social media channel, and be able to
talk about the things that you know about.
Not necessarily in a scientific way, butalso in a way where people can understand.
It really helps everybody out.
Recognize and also resist the overwhelm.
There is a lot of disinformationand information overload
that can cause fatigue.
(14:27):
I do a lot of work in terms ofputting stuff out, like consuming
information and it's a lot andI have to take breaks sometimes.
Sometimes my voice needs to take breaks.
This summer, I had a lotof problems with my voice.
But there are times where you need tojust kind of sit back and digest some
things and just relax and just understandthat there are bad actors out there and
they have strategies that are really,really great all the way from the
(14:48):
fossil fuel industry and providing hugemisinformation campaigns to the point
where it's like people just don't wannalisten or they have their own facts and
their own sources and stuff like that.
and that could be really bad.
So limit your exposureto some of those parties.
You're probably not gonna convincethem of anything that you want to
convince them of or provide facts for.
(15:08):
Recognize that there are emotionaltactics that people try to do.
There are times when I post about climatechange and immediately I will get somebody
in being like, climate change's not real.
This is all just a hoax.
Look at this YouTubevideo, blah, blah, blah.
And you know it's, all biasso don't fall for those things.
And sometimes I do, I haveto admit, sometimes I do.
But try and get out of that kindof way of doing things like that.
(15:28):
But also don't make itstop you from posting.
The way I look at things I post for peoplewho want to know more about the ocean.
These are people who arelooking for information.
That is my audience.
I'm not posting for people whoare hell bent against me getting
this information out and trying totear me down at any point in time.
That is not what I'm about.
That is not what I'm doing.
Also, the small steps matter.
(15:50):
You know, so start now.
Doing local things, talking to your localcity council, talking to local business
people, just having those conversations.
That's really good.
Small actions today matter,even if it's just with a friend.
Providing that information isso good for a scientist to do.
'cause people actuallycare about what you do.
They are genuinely curious.
(16:12):
And if you try and stay away from someof those topics that are triggering
politically, you can get away witha lot and say a lot of great things,
factual things that people will be like,it doesn't matter which way they lean.
People are like, oh, I didn't know that.
Oh, that's kind of cool.
Like, your job is so cool.
That's really nice.
And even if it's not part of yourjob, you can talk about the ocean
the way you know it, and I thinkthat's really important to do.
(16:33):
So share science not only locallyand with friends and family, but also
through social media that really helps.
Volunteer with beach cleanupsor community workshop.
If there's a committee or there's ameeting or something, you can always
volunteer, say with that governmentagency and say, Hey, you know what?
I'm a local scientist here and I knowa lot about this type of subject.
I'd be happy to answer any kind ofquestions people might have or help
(16:54):
out in any kind of way that might help.
You know, But reinforce theidea that every ocean advocate
started with a single step.
And that is like small things.
You gotta start small.
Before I started this podcast, I washaving like so many conversations.
I was gonna say hundreds and thousands.
I don't know if it's a hundredsand thousands, but I was having a
lot of conversations about what'sgoing on in the ocean and I was
surprised that people didn't know.
(17:15):
So I scaled it up and I went to apodcast and now I am where I am.
And so now I'm talking tothousands of people every episode,
and that's important to me.
That's nice to know that people arelistening and people want to know more and
more about what's happening in the ocean.
So this is something that we needto do as scientists all the time.
I'm not saying you have to go outand protest each and every day,
(17:37):
but there's advocacy to be had.
There's information to beshared, and it's up to us.
It's the responsibility of thescientists to share that information.
Now, you also have to be carefulhow you share the information,
who you share it with.
Like I said, you don't want to be goingto people where it's just triggering
for them and they're not gonnalisten and they don't want to know.
That's fine.
You know who those people are, youdon't have to engage with them if you
don't want because that's emotionallydraining sometimes, and it can be
(17:59):
dangerous in certain situations.
So what I would suggest is you put outinformation where you know the person
is going to take it, and is lookingforward to knowing more about it and wants
to do something better for the ocean.
And so if you can speak to the peoplethat are doing that, which I believe
are most of the people in and aroundthe world and in around your community,
then I think that's a great thing.
It doesn't matter, like try andstay away from saying politics.
(18:22):
You can criticize a government, whetherit's a democratic government or Republican
government, or leaning like liberalleaning or left or right leaning.
You can criticize a government.
That's fair to do, butcriticize it without emotions.
Don't just say, this person's adouche and I don't like this person,
so I'm gonna criticize this stuff.
You can say that, Hey, by taking awaythis regulation, it puts this animal at
(18:42):
risk, or it puts this coastline at riskor it puts water quality at risk, or
just conservation in general at risk.
You can say that.
Because you're a scientist and yousay it based on like, this is what
the science is saying and thisgovernment is going against that.
There's nothing wrongwith criticizing a policy.
There's governments that I voted forwhere I still criticize their policies
'cause I don't agree with everything.
We're not supposed to agreewith everything that they do.
(19:04):
And sometimes, and a lot oftimes governments mess up.
You know, whether it's individuals ofthat government and in power or on
the opposition or whatever, people messup, politicians mess up all the time.
That's what makes politics so difficult.
But you could vote for something andstill criticize their policies if
you don't like what they're doing, ifthe environment is important to you.
All governments are bad for theenvironment in one way or another.
(19:25):
You just have to look at which one'sthe least harmful to the environment.
But this is what I wanted to covertoday because I feel like a lot of
scientists, we try and stay outta that.
Like, I'm not an advocate,I'm not an activist.
I'm not gonna stay outta that.
I just want do the science.
Oftentimes we have to not onlyadvocate for ourselves, but we have
to advocate for the environment.
We are in the environment all the time.
We see the degradation that's happening.
(19:46):
Some scientists, and maybe that's whythe scientists who have been in the
field for 10, 20, 30 years will seea big problem and then start to say,
Hey, this is really degraded over mylifetime and I don't want to see that,
so I'm gonna start talking about it.
But if we do that throughout our, likewhen we see the small things happen
before it gets too big and too negative,maybe we can have a difference when we
advocate as we go through our career.
(20:08):
It's important that scientists speak out.
It's important that scientistsspeak up, whether it's through a
podcast, TikTok, Instagram, Discord,
Reddit, whatever it is, even justlocally, it's important that we speak
up, speak out, and protect the ocean.
I wanna thank you so much forjoining me on today's episode.
If you have any questions orcomments, please let me know.
Leave in the comments below, ifyou're watching this on YouTube, or
you can contact me in a couple ofdifferent ways through Instagram at
(20:31):
how to Protect the Ocean, just DM me.
at Speak Up for Blue on TikTok, andof course you can go to the website,
speakupforblue.com/contact and youcan just leave me a message there.
It goes right to my email.
I wanna thank you so much forjoining me on today's episode of the
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin fromthe True nor Strong and free.
Have a great day.
We'll talk to you next timeand happy conservation.
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