April 2, 2025 • 19 mins
Ocean conservation careers often don’t follow a predictable path—and that’s completely normal. In this episode of How to Protect the Ocean, host Andrew Lewin shares why expecting a traditional, linear route in marine biology or conservation can lead to frustration. Instead, he reflects on the non-linear journeys many professionals, including himself, have taken to find meaningful work in the field.
Marine biology career advice is often focused on degrees and academic milestones, but Andrew explains how flexibility, adaptability, and following your passion can lead to unexpected and fulfilling roles in science, communication, education, and policy. If you’ve ever questioned whether you’re “on the right path,” this episode is the encouragement you need to keep going.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:00:00):
If you're thinking of
becoming a marine biologist,
marine conservationist, do
you know how you're gonna
plan out your ocean conservation career?
Do you know how easy or
hard it is to attain a career
in ocean conservation?
Well, we're gonna talk
about it on today's episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast
because this is something
that I'm gonna ask you questions
because this is something
(01:00:20):
that we don't really talk about.
And I did a
presentation earlier last week
where I talked to some high school kids
and I asked them the same question.
It was really interesting to
hear some of their answers.
So we're gonna talk
about that on this episode.
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another
exciting episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean podcast.
(01:00:40):
I'm your host Andrew Lewin.
And this is the podcast where you find
out what's happening with the ocean,
how you can speak up for the ocean,
and what you can do to live for a better
ocean by taking action.
On today's episode, we are going to be
talking about ocean conservation careers.
Your ocean conservation career.
If you're listening to this episode,
you're probably thinking out.
At some point, you want to
work in ocean conservation.
That could include marine biology, marine
(01:01:02):
conservation, that
could include genetics,
that could include, you know, a lot of
different science biology,
that could include
oceanography, physics, chemistry,
it could include a whole slew of things,
business management,
entrepreneurship, anything.
Ocean conservation career
really comes down to anything.
But there are certain things that you
have to ask yourself
when you are considering.
(01:01:23):
This is a lot for high school students,
high school students, a
lot for university students
or recent graduates, whether you have a
graduate degree or undergraduate degree,
or even just people who are
trying to pivot mid-career,
someone who's pivoted a
number of times during my career.
You want to make sure that you understand
how you can benefit the
field of ocean conservation
(01:01:43):
and how you can say, "Hey, I'm going to
have an ocean
conservation career because I have,
I bring this skill set or this experience
that can benefit what's needed."
And I'm going to say
it's not always science.
It's not always, we don't necessarily
need more marine biologists.
And I think that encapsulates a lot
(01:02:04):
because I've spoken to a lot
of people who are mid-career,
like, "Hey, I want to do
what marine biologists do.
I want to get into ocean conservation and
protect sharks or protect the ocean.
So I'm going to go back
for a four-year degree."
Well, look, that's great.
And if you have the money to do it, and
that's really what you want to do,
go ahead, go back to school, mid-career,
whatever you want to
do, and do your thing.
And work your butt off because you
(01:02:24):
probably know what
you want at this point.
And that could be a marine biology career
and you can excel at it.
And I think I applaud you.
But you don't always have
to do something in science.
If you come from a banking background or
economic background
or business background,
you can benefit it in many different ways
and probably succeed
financially at it quite a bit.
You know, I think we look at the scale of
(01:02:45):
where ocean conservation pay is.
And that's what a lot of people say.
It's like when I grew up and I'm like,
"Yeah, I want to be a marine biologist."
Like, "Can you make money as a marine
biologist?" And the short
answer is, "Yes, you can."
But you have to, it depends on the job
that you're working, right?
Like a lot of the people, when we talk
about marine biology, we think about
working on the ocean or in the ocean.
(01:03:07):
Scuba diving, snorkeling, you know,
putting down broths, putting down
cameras, you know, ROV work.
Those are the fun things you see on
National Geographic and Shark Week and
all that kind of stuff.
And that happens. Like we see tagging
studies, we see ROV
studies, we see drone studies,
we see all these cool fancy tech studies.
And then when you just get down and we go
(01:03:27):
do scuba diving or snorkeling and
trailing behind a boat,
it's pretty cool stuff. You
get to do pretty cool stuff.
But then on the other hand, we also do
like water quality marine,
like taking water samples,
you know, getting into some pretty bad
water if you have to and taking samples.
Like so there's a lot of different things
that you can do and there's different
sectors that you can go in.
And there's different types of jobs
(01:03:48):
within the field of ocean conservation.
You can have a variety of different ocean
conservation careers within the ocean
conservation career if you get my drift.
But the thing that you have to ask is
really two things that
you have to ask yourself.
You have to ask yourself,
how much do I want to get paid?
The second thing is to support the
lifestyle that I lead.
So you want to make sure you get enough
(01:04:10):
financially and then enough to have a
good lifestyle that you want.
Those two come hand in hand and it's not
always asked when kids or adults are
asked are saying, hey, I want to go into
marine biology or ocean conservation.
I was like, great.
What's your lifestyle going to be like?
(01:04:30):
What do you want as your lifestyle?
Do you truly understand the lifestyle?
Because when I was a high school kid, you
couldn't tell me anything.
Nothing was going to stop me
from being a marine biologist.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Even when people are like, yeah, well,
the pay is not that bad because I always
thought I'm just going to figure it out.
I'm just going to
figure out and get some pay.
And I'll be honest. I had some decent pay
when I worked for the government.
(01:04:51):
I had some decent pay when I
worked for a private consultant.
I had some decent pay when
you work for a nonprofit.
You may not be getting like a huge pay
depending on the level you're working at.
If you're looking more on the
administrative side as a manager or even
like an executive director, you can get
paid a lot of money.
You can get paid a good amount of money
to have a pretty comfortable life and not
have to worry about bills.
(01:05:13):
But if you're working in the field all
the time as a technician, like a field
technician, having a lot of fun out in
the ocean all the time or on a river or
on a lake or whatever,
you really have to like it.
You may not get paid as much. You may get
paid a decent wage depending on what
entity you're working for.
But you're not going to be
paying getting paid a ton.
(01:05:34):
And it's surprising for a lot of people
and depending on where you are, it's
surprising that you get
paid so low in certain places.
But it all depends on how much money that
company or how much funding that
organization or
department is going to get.
And you're really you either benefit or
you don't benefit off of that.
(01:05:56):
And some people will go from job to job,
not necessarily because they don't can't
find a full time position, but maybe the
funding doesn't allow for it.
So especially in the nonprofit
organization, everything is based on
funding. So if the organization runs out
of funding or there's an end date to that
funding, you'll often see job ads that
are saying, hey, yeah, like, you know,
this is a two year position or this is a
one year position or this is a six month
(01:06:18):
position or this is a
three year position.
You just may not be able to get it right
away, you know, and get more experience
and move on to the next nonprofit
organization until
hopefully you find a full time job.
(01:06:39):
But even then, some of the pays are not
the greatest, especially when it comes to
science, which I find surprising because
that's what a lot of that are based on a
lot of these organizations are based on.
But communications marketing operations
executive director, all those kinds of
those kind of jobs
typically pay pretty well.
(01:07:01):
I applied to one job that had the posting
was like over it was a communication job.
It was over $100,000. That's Canadian.
Like it was like $115,000. There's
another communication job.
There was like 130 to $150,000.
Those are like communication director
positions or senior communications
director positions. Those are pretty big,
(01:07:22):
you know, but program
officers and things like that.
Those tend to be lower on the totem pole
when you're talking about nonprofit
organization or if you're talking about
government, it's a little it's a little
higher depending on the government.
And if they're actually hiring these
days, but, you know, they they tend to
have like specific positions. I know the
Canadian government is unionized. So they
have they actually just post, you know,
(01:07:43):
exactly what everybody's making depending
on how many years they've worked in that
position as well as what position they're
working, like what level they are.
They're at like Biola, just one, Biola,
just two physical scientists, one, three,
six, or five, it goes up to five, four,
five so that you can tell how much the
higher the number, the more they get
paid, the more responsibility they have.
So more administrative they have. Now, I
(01:08:04):
know some people who've gotten into that
level and they're like, Oh, yeah, no, I
don't actually like this kind of role. I
want to go back down and do the fun
stuff, but earn, try and like get your,
get the biggest bang
for the buck, so to speak.
Right. So you try and maximize the amount
of money you can get without having to do
too many boring office things. So as
someone would tell me
in the, in the industry.
(01:08:25):
So it all depends on your preference and
what you want to make and how much you
want to make and how much life. But if
you're planning it out and you want to
look at the jobs, you got to plan it out.
You got to be like, look, I want to make
I want to make a good amount of money to
support my lifestyle. And that could be
having a family that could be having a
house or an apartment or move around a
little bit with your partner.
If you have a partner or not having a
(01:08:45):
partner, it all depends on the lifestyle
that you want to live. And they're all
doable within the construct of the ocean
conservation career.
You just have to do the research and
speak to people who have different types
of careers. There are people who go into
the field for like six weeks at a time,
seven weeks at a time. There are people
who go for like over,
over three months at a time.
(01:09:07):
You know, they're away from whoever their
loved ones, whether it's a family,
whether, you know, it's like an extended
family or friends or whatever, or it's
like a close to their family, their,
their kids, their, their partner.
It all depends, right? It all depends on
the job that you have the other. Some
people have like a nine to five and they
go to work and they come home every day.
They get to participate in all their kids
(01:09:28):
activities and all that kind of stuff.
And they love it. And
that's, and that's great too.
Whatever the lifestyle is and whatever
the money is those you have to know what
that is that will allow you to dictate
kind of life. But what you can't predict
and this happens to a lot of people is
the decisions that come in life that will
make you pivot,
whether you like it or not.
(01:09:50):
So when that can be positive, some that
can be negative, right? All depends on
the human psyche. It all depends on the
person and the situations are all unique.
But there are certain times in certain
situations where you
have to make a decision.
And it's sometimes the personal decision.
Sometimes it's a business decision or a
career decision, but it will affect you.
And it really just depends. You have no
idea what will happen.
(01:10:11):
And some of it, they'll be hard decisions
to make at the time. And then you'll
figure out whether you want, like whether
you agreed with that
decision or not after that.
And I'll tell you mine. And this is what
I told that this great nine girls school
that I was at or this girl school that I
was at that I presented in
front of great nine kids.
And we discussed my career and I didn't
(01:10:32):
want to just tell them about living. I
worked for government and I worked for a
private consultant. I went back to
government and I worked here and I worked
in the US and I worked there.
I could talk about the fun times and all
that kind of stuff. But I want to talk
about the decision making because like
when we think about marine biology,
especially like I knew when I was 14, I
want to be a marine biologist.
And that's all I ever wanted to be. So as
(01:10:53):
I grew up, then I met podcasting, but I'm
still in marine biology, podcasting. But
as I kind of grew up through my high
school, that's all I was thinking. I was
like, I'm going to go to university. I'm
going to get an undergraduate degree.
Then I'm going to go to grad school and
get a master's and I'm going to get a PhD
and then I'm going to work either as a
professor or some research.
And I'm going to travel around the world
and do research on every animal that I
want to do. And I would have full control
(01:11:15):
over that. And that's fine dream. That
could happen. That could
happen. It could happen.
Doesn't happen often, but it could
happen. But what I didn't expect is that
at the end of my university career, which
I by the end, I had no idea what I wanted
to do in marine biology.
I met the love of my life who ended up
(01:11:36):
becoming my wife. But what I didn't
realize is that when I like when I grew
up, I was going to travel the world.
When she grew up, she was going to stay
here in Ontario to be close to family
because her lifestyle was raise a family,
be close to family so family
can help and be a part of that.
So I met my wife, fell in love. We both
(01:11:57):
fell in love. And I'm like, OK, like,
hey, I'm going down to Louisiana and I'm
going to be on a boat
for like eight months.
Now come back every couple of months.
Like, OK, we'll just figure out from
there. And I fell more in love and more
in love. And we both fell more in love with each other.
And then I came home and I said, hey, I'm
going to do a master's. I got offered a
master's, but it's not here in Ontario.
It's out in Halifax. So we got to move.
(01:12:18):
Can we move to Halifax
together? So we moved to Halifax.
I said, I'll give you two. Give me two
years there. I'll get my master's and
then we'll come back here and we'll and
we'll start working on our family and get
married and start working on our family.
You know, we were set for like this is as
soon as we met, like we knew we were
going to get married like that. This is
my one always has been always will be.
And we came back after two years. I got
(01:12:39):
off your PhD and I rejected it because
I'm like, I got to go back to Ontario. I
promise my wife. I go back to Ontario.
Got married and, you know, we, you know,
we started to have kids and, you know,
that one thing led to another. We the
kids are starting to grow up.
And, you know, I had to do different jobs
for marine biology and find jobs within
Ontario and started a podcast and all
(01:13:00):
this kind of stuff. And I don't regret
any of it at the time.
I didn't love it all the time because I
didn't love all the jobs that I had. But
I don't regret it because now my my kids
know their grandparents and their uncles
and my sister-in-law and like the aunts
and cousins and stuff.
And they love it. Right. We had a great
life. We're having a great life. And so
I, you know, that was the choice that I
(01:13:22):
had to face. That was the
big pivot that I had to face.
It changed the course of my career from
thinking that I'd be on the East Coast or
West Coast of Canada or the U.S. or even
just travel around the world and doing
marine biology stuff as much of a dream
of that was I came back to
Ontario where there's no ocean.
There's the Great Lakes, the Sweetwater
Ocean, but there's no ocean. And and I
(01:13:44):
had a career here, which is very
different from a lot of my colleagues and
friends that are in
that are in this industry.
But that's the decision that I made.
That's the adaptation I had to make. I
didn't expect it to happen. And there are
a lot of people who have
different decisions to make.
So there are some people who have taken,
you know, they've taken the academic
route. They've decided to go to
undergraduate, graduate, master's, PhD,
(01:14:05):
and then become a professor.
And when they become a professor, they've
reached their dream like this is amazing.
And they realize, I actually don't like
this job. And you're
like, oh, what do I do?
You know, some people move, especially to
be a professor someplace and they don't
love it. Let's say it happens to
everybody, but there's some people who
don't. And I've had I've
had friends who have had that.
(01:14:26):
And then they had to figure out what to
do after that. They had to figure out
where to go and what to do. Did they move
from that place? Do they stay as a
professor there and maybe not like it as
much and be miserable? Or can they figure
out if they're going to be happy?
It's been it's very difficult the time
and whatever decision they make, that's
the decision to make is not right or
wrong. It's just a
decision they decide to make.
(01:14:47):
But these these little pivot moments are
extremely important and they happen more
than you think, especially at 40. I
reached 40 and I
pivoted a couple of times.
And I know a lot of people who have put I
know some people who had a career in one
thing, decided to become a teacher in
another started their teaching, you know,
(01:15:08):
practice at like 40 years old.
Like there's so many different ways you
can. Some people became cops or fire men
or women or people like it's all
different things that you can do. But 40
seems to be that age where people pivot.
I don't know if it's the beginning of the
mid life crisis, but it's that that's
just the pivot that
I've seen people make.
(01:15:28):
So it doesn't necessarily mean you're
going to be in the same job all the time.
There's probably not going to be the same
job all the time, especially the way jobs
are going these days. And and it's not
necessarily that you are going to have
the path that you think you're going to
have. That's going to
meander quite a bit.
I co-host a podcast called the Beyond
Jaws podcast with Dr. David Ebert. And we
interview shark scientists and
practitioners and conservationists all
(01:15:50):
the time. Like every couple of weeks we
put out an episode and we
talk about their career.
And when we talk about their career, a
lot of times it meanders, they go in and
out of studying sharks. So they'll study
other fish or they'll say something
completely different or they'll go
somewhere completely different.
Or they'll get out of the industry
altogether just to make some money and
then come back and they and they do that.
And they proudly mentioned that because
(01:16:10):
when you see their bit, a lot of these
people are very well published and
they're they're very well known.
But people don't know about the
intricacies of their career because
they've just never heard it before. They
don't know because all their reading is
their papers. So we have them on a podcast again.
We have them on a podcast to get to hear
it. They're like, oh, OK, so so and so
had this wonderful career, but it was in
and out a little bit. It wasn't perfect.
(01:16:30):
OK, mine doesn't have to be either. Your
career does not your ocean conservation
career does not have to be perfect.
Let me repeat that your ocean
conservation career does not have to be
perfect. It's not a straight path. It's
going to meander a bunch and you have to
really you have to accept that.
And maybe even like just just kind of
(01:16:51):
know that it's coming. Anticipate the
meanderness. That's a word. I don't know.
But like you have to learn that because
if you don't and you expect to be
straight and something happens, you're
going to think your career is a failure.
And I would say as a coach, I always tell
my kids like my my players fail, fail
often, fail fast, fail often and learn
(01:17:12):
from those mistakes or learn from those
decisions and then get better and be
better and you'll be stronger in the end.
So the whole point of this podcast is
having an ocean conservation career will
make you stronger, will make you better
as a person, but it won't be a straight
path. It will meander. Be ready for it,
anticipate it and enjoy the heck out of
the process because it's a fun process.
(01:17:33):
There's ups and downs and it's a great
story and tell your story. Come on this
podcast. Tell your story. Go on the
Beyond Jobs podcast. Tell your story. We
always want to hear people's stories
because we want to share the experiences
so that when people go through
themselves, they're not alone.
You're not alone. So many people had
different types of stories. So I want to
just mention that to you because I think
it's really important that we share that,
(01:17:54):
you know, ocean conservation careers are
not a straight path.
And I want you to know that. So for me to
you, you're welcome. Enjoy the process.
If you ever need help, reach out. I'm
always there to help you out. You can DM
me at how to protect the ocean. You can
also go over to our YouTube channel and
subscribe and hit that notification
button to see all different types of episodes.
(01:18:15):
As I mentioned the last episode, I'm
doing things a little differently lately.
I'm recording the raw audio podcast first
and then I'm recording a more of a
cleaned up version, more succinct version
because YouTubers don't have the
multitasking ability that audio
podcasters do because the way the apps
and the way the platform is.
So they tend to watch more. So they tend
(01:18:36):
to be a little less time and a little bit
more edited or not edited, but just
succinct and yeah, and we'll just see you
soon. Those edited. This is the last non
edited video for a while.
I'll be editing more videos in a little
bit, but they'll be coming out for a
bunch. But I just I just want to get this
off my chest because I think it's really important.
I found that the kids that I taught last
(01:18:57):
last week that I presented in front of,
they really enjoyed it. They really took
it to heart. And a lot of the questions
that came out were about confidence. It's
like, how did how confident were you
every time? Like, do you ever question
the path you were taking? And my answer
to that was yes, yes, I did every single
day. I still do. And I'm still
questioning it because you never know if
you're taking the right path, but there
is no right path. Your path is the right
path. So, you know, own that. Okay. So anyway, that's it for today's episode. If you want to get a hold of that, I'm going to be doing a video on how to do it.
(01:19:35):
I can't really just I can just say that, or what it looks like. This video has an
awesome feature on it, but the mph method
page, hearingcentered hosting
Thank you so much for joining me on
today's episode of the how
to protect the ocean podcast
I'm your host Andrew Lewin from the true
north strong and free. Have a great day.
We'll talk to you next
time and happy conservation
If you're thinking of
becoming a marine biologist,
marine conservationist, do
you know how you're gonna
plan out your ocean conservation career?
Do you know how easy or
hard it is to attain a career
in ocean conservation?
Well, we're gonna talk
about it on today's episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast
because this is something
that I'm gonna ask you questions
because this is something
(01:00:20):
that we don't really talk about.
And I did a
presentation earlier last week
where I talked to some high school kids
and I asked them the same question.
It was really interesting to
hear some of their answers.
So we're gonna talk
about that on this episode.
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another
exciting episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean podcast.
(01:00:40):
I'm your host Andrew Lewin.
And this is the podcast where you find
out what's happening with the ocean,
how you can speak up for the ocean,
and what you can do to live for a better
ocean by taking action.
On today's episode, we are going to be
talking about ocean conservation careers.
Your ocean conservation career.
If you're listening to this episode,
you're probably thinking out.
At some point, you want to
work in ocean conservation.
That could include marine biology, marine
(01:01:02):
conservation, that
could include genetics,
that could include, you know, a lot of
different science biology,
that could include
oceanography, physics, chemistry,
it could include a whole slew of things,
business management,
entrepreneurship, anything.
Ocean conservation career
really comes down to anything.
But there are certain things that you
have to ask yourself
when you are considering.
(01:01:23):
This is a lot for high school students,
high school students, a
lot for university students
or recent graduates, whether you have a
graduate degree or undergraduate degree,
or even just people who are
trying to pivot mid-career,
someone who's pivoted a
number of times during my career.
You want to make sure that you understand
how you can benefit the
field of ocean conservation
(01:01:43):
and how you can say, "Hey, I'm going to
have an ocean
conservation career because I have,
I bring this skill set or this experience
that can benefit what's needed."
And I'm going to say
it's not always science.
It's not always, we don't necessarily
need more marine biologists.
And I think that encapsulates a lot
(01:02:04):
because I've spoken to a lot
of people who are mid-career,
like, "Hey, I want to do
what marine biologists do.
I want to get into ocean conservation and
protect sharks or protect the ocean.
So I'm going to go back
for a four-year degree."
Well, look, that's great.
And if you have the money to do it, and
that's really what you want to do,
go ahead, go back to school, mid-career,
whatever you want to
do, and do your thing.
And work your butt off because you
(01:02:24):
probably know what
you want at this point.
And that could be a marine biology career
and you can excel at it.
And I think I applaud you.
But you don't always have
to do something in science.
If you come from a banking background or
economic background
or business background,
you can benefit it in many different ways
and probably succeed
financially at it quite a bit.
You know, I think we look at the scale of
(01:02:45):
where ocean conservation pay is.
And that's what a lot of people say.
It's like when I grew up and I'm like,
"Yeah, I want to be a marine biologist."
Like, "Can you make money as a marine
biologist?" And the short
answer is, "Yes, you can."
But you have to, it depends on the job
that you're working, right?
Like a lot of the people, when we talk
about marine biology, we think about
working on the ocean or in the ocean.
(01:03:07):
Scuba diving, snorkeling, you know,
putting down broths, putting down
cameras, you know, ROV work.
Those are the fun things you see on
National Geographic and Shark Week and
all that kind of stuff.
And that happens. Like we see tagging
studies, we see ROV
studies, we see drone studies,
we see all these cool fancy tech studies.
And then when you just get down and we go
(01:03:27):
do scuba diving or snorkeling and
trailing behind a boat,
it's pretty cool stuff. You
get to do pretty cool stuff.
But then on the other hand, we also do
like water quality marine,
like taking water samples,
you know, getting into some pretty bad
water if you have to and taking samples.
Like so there's a lot of different things
that you can do and there's different
sectors that you can go in.
And there's different types of jobs
(01:03:48):
within the field of ocean conservation.
You can have a variety of different ocean
conservation careers within the ocean
conservation career if you get my drift.
But the thing that you have to ask is
really two things that
you have to ask yourself.
You have to ask yourself,
how much do I want to get paid?
The second thing is to support the
lifestyle that I lead.
So you want to make sure you get enough
(01:04:10):
financially and then enough to have a
good lifestyle that you want.
Those two come hand in hand and it's not
always asked when kids or adults are
asked are saying, hey, I want to go into
marine biology or ocean conservation.
I was like, great.
What's your lifestyle going to be like?
(01:04:30):
What do you want as your lifestyle?
Do you truly understand the lifestyle?
Because when I was a high school kid, you
couldn't tell me anything.
Nothing was going to stop me
from being a marine biologist.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Even when people are like, yeah, well,
the pay is not that bad because I always
thought I'm just going to figure it out.
I'm just going to
figure out and get some pay.
And I'll be honest. I had some decent pay
when I worked for the government.
(01:04:51):
I had some decent pay when I
worked for a private consultant.
I had some decent pay when
you work for a nonprofit.
You may not be getting like a huge pay
depending on the level you're working at.
If you're looking more on the
administrative side as a manager or even
like an executive director, you can get
paid a lot of money.
You can get paid a good amount of money
to have a pretty comfortable life and not
have to worry about bills.
(01:05:13):
But if you're working in the field all
the time as a technician, like a field
technician, having a lot of fun out in
the ocean all the time or on a river or
on a lake or whatever,
you really have to like it.
You may not get paid as much. You may get
paid a decent wage depending on what
entity you're working for.
But you're not going to be
paying getting paid a ton.
(01:05:34):
And it's surprising for a lot of people
and depending on where you are, it's
surprising that you get
paid so low in certain places.
But it all depends on how much money that
company or how much funding that
organization or
department is going to get.
And you're really you either benefit or
you don't benefit off of that.
(01:05:56):
And some people will go from job to job,
not necessarily because they don't can't
find a full time position, but maybe the
funding doesn't allow for it.
So especially in the nonprofit
organization, everything is based on
funding. So if the organization runs out
of funding or there's an end date to that
funding, you'll often see job ads that
are saying, hey, yeah, like, you know,
this is a two year position or this is a
one year position or this is a six month
(01:06:18):
position or this is a
three year position.
You just may not be able to get it right
away, you know, and get more experience
and move on to the next nonprofit
organization until
hopefully you find a full time job.
(01:06:39):
But even then, some of the pays are not
the greatest, especially when it comes to
science, which I find surprising because
that's what a lot of that are based on a
lot of these organizations are based on.
But communications marketing operations
executive director, all those kinds of
those kind of jobs
typically pay pretty well.
(01:07:01):
I applied to one job that had the posting
was like over it was a communication job.
It was over $100,000. That's Canadian.
Like it was like $115,000. There's
another communication job.
There was like 130 to $150,000.
Those are like communication director
positions or senior communications
director positions. Those are pretty big,
(01:07:22):
you know, but program
officers and things like that.
Those tend to be lower on the totem pole
when you're talking about nonprofit
organization or if you're talking about
government, it's a little it's a little
higher depending on the government.
And if they're actually hiring these
days, but, you know, they they tend to
have like specific positions. I know the
Canadian government is unionized. So they
have they actually just post, you know,
(01:07:43):
exactly what everybody's making depending
on how many years they've worked in that
position as well as what position they're
working, like what level they are.
They're at like Biola, just one, Biola,
just two physical scientists, one, three,
six, or five, it goes up to five, four,
five so that you can tell how much the
higher the number, the more they get
paid, the more responsibility they have.
So more administrative they have. Now, I
(01:08:04):
know some people who've gotten into that
level and they're like, Oh, yeah, no, I
don't actually like this kind of role. I
want to go back down and do the fun
stuff, but earn, try and like get your,
get the biggest bang
for the buck, so to speak.
Right. So you try and maximize the amount
of money you can get without having to do
too many boring office things. So as
someone would tell me
in the, in the industry.
(01:08:25):
So it all depends on your preference and
what you want to make and how much you
want to make and how much life. But if
you're planning it out and you want to
look at the jobs, you got to plan it out.
You got to be like, look, I want to make
I want to make a good amount of money to
support my lifestyle. And that could be
having a family that could be having a
house or an apartment or move around a
little bit with your partner.
If you have a partner or not having a
(01:08:45):
partner, it all depends on the lifestyle
that you want to live. And they're all
doable within the construct of the ocean
conservation career.
You just have to do the research and
speak to people who have different types
of careers. There are people who go into
the field for like six weeks at a time,
seven weeks at a time. There are people
who go for like over,
over three months at a time.
(01:09:07):
You know, they're away from whoever their
loved ones, whether it's a family,
whether, you know, it's like an extended
family or friends or whatever, or it's
like a close to their family, their,
their kids, their, their partner.
It all depends, right? It all depends on
the job that you have the other. Some
people have like a nine to five and they
go to work and they come home every day.
They get to participate in all their kids
(01:09:28):
activities and all that kind of stuff.
And they love it. And
that's, and that's great too.
Whatever the lifestyle is and whatever
the money is those you have to know what
that is that will allow you to dictate
kind of life. But what you can't predict
and this happens to a lot of people is
the decisions that come in life that will
make you pivot,
whether you like it or not.
(01:09:50):
So when that can be positive, some that
can be negative, right? All depends on
the human psyche. It all depends on the
person and the situations are all unique.
But there are certain times in certain
situations where you
have to make a decision.
And it's sometimes the personal decision.
Sometimes it's a business decision or a
career decision, but it will affect you.
And it really just depends. You have no
idea what will happen.
(01:10:11):
And some of it, they'll be hard decisions
to make at the time. And then you'll
figure out whether you want, like whether
you agreed with that
decision or not after that.
And I'll tell you mine. And this is what
I told that this great nine girls school
that I was at or this girl school that I
was at that I presented in
front of great nine kids.
And we discussed my career and I didn't
(01:10:32):
want to just tell them about living. I
worked for government and I worked for a
private consultant. I went back to
government and I worked here and I worked
in the US and I worked there.
I could talk about the fun times and all
that kind of stuff. But I want to talk
about the decision making because like
when we think about marine biology,
especially like I knew when I was 14, I
want to be a marine biologist.
And that's all I ever wanted to be. So as
(01:10:53):
I grew up, then I met podcasting, but I'm
still in marine biology, podcasting. But
as I kind of grew up through my high
school, that's all I was thinking. I was
like, I'm going to go to university. I'm
going to get an undergraduate degree.
Then I'm going to go to grad school and
get a master's and I'm going to get a PhD
and then I'm going to work either as a
professor or some research.
And I'm going to travel around the world
and do research on every animal that I
want to do. And I would have full control
(01:11:15):
over that. And that's fine dream. That
could happen. That could
happen. It could happen.
Doesn't happen often, but it could
happen. But what I didn't expect is that
at the end of my university career, which
I by the end, I had no idea what I wanted
to do in marine biology.
I met the love of my life who ended up
(01:11:36):
becoming my wife. But what I didn't
realize is that when I like when I grew
up, I was going to travel the world.
When she grew up, she was going to stay
here in Ontario to be close to family
because her lifestyle was raise a family,
be close to family so family
can help and be a part of that.
So I met my wife, fell in love. We both
(01:11:57):
fell in love. And I'm like, OK, like,
hey, I'm going down to Louisiana and I'm
going to be on a boat
for like eight months.
Now come back every couple of months.
Like, OK, we'll just figure out from
there. And I fell more in love and more
in love. And we both fell more in love with each other.
And then I came home and I said, hey, I'm
going to do a master's. I got offered a
master's, but it's not here in Ontario.
It's out in Halifax. So we got to move.
(01:12:18):
Can we move to Halifax
together? So we moved to Halifax.
I said, I'll give you two. Give me two
years there. I'll get my master's and
then we'll come back here and we'll and
we'll start working on our family and get
married and start working on our family.
You know, we were set for like this is as
soon as we met, like we knew we were
going to get married like that. This is
my one always has been always will be.
And we came back after two years. I got
(01:12:39):
off your PhD and I rejected it because
I'm like, I got to go back to Ontario. I
promise my wife. I go back to Ontario.
Got married and, you know, we, you know,
we started to have kids and, you know,
that one thing led to another. We the
kids are starting to grow up.
And, you know, I had to do different jobs
for marine biology and find jobs within
Ontario and started a podcast and all
(01:13:00):
this kind of stuff. And I don't regret
any of it at the time.
I didn't love it all the time because I
didn't love all the jobs that I had. But
I don't regret it because now my my kids
know their grandparents and their uncles
and my sister-in-law and like the aunts
and cousins and stuff.
And they love it. Right. We had a great
life. We're having a great life. And so
I, you know, that was the choice that I
(01:13:22):
had to face. That was the
big pivot that I had to face.
It changed the course of my career from
thinking that I'd be on the East Coast or
West Coast of Canada or the U.S. or even
just travel around the world and doing
marine biology stuff as much of a dream
of that was I came back to
Ontario where there's no ocean.
There's the Great Lakes, the Sweetwater
Ocean, but there's no ocean. And and I
(01:13:44):
had a career here, which is very
different from a lot of my colleagues and
friends that are in
that are in this industry.
But that's the decision that I made.
That's the adaptation I had to make. I
didn't expect it to happen. And there are
a lot of people who have
different decisions to make.
So there are some people who have taken,
you know, they've taken the academic
route. They've decided to go to
undergraduate, graduate, master's, PhD,
(01:14:05):
and then become a professor.
And when they become a professor, they've
reached their dream like this is amazing.
And they realize, I actually don't like
this job. And you're
like, oh, what do I do?
You know, some people move, especially to
be a professor someplace and they don't
love it. Let's say it happens to
everybody, but there's some people who
don't. And I've had I've
had friends who have had that.
(01:14:26):
And then they had to figure out what to
do after that. They had to figure out
where to go and what to do. Did they move
from that place? Do they stay as a
professor there and maybe not like it as
much and be miserable? Or can they figure
out if they're going to be happy?
It's been it's very difficult the time
and whatever decision they make, that's
the decision to make is not right or
wrong. It's just a
decision they decide to make.
(01:14:47):
But these these little pivot moments are
extremely important and they happen more
than you think, especially at 40. I
reached 40 and I
pivoted a couple of times.
And I know a lot of people who have put I
know some people who had a career in one
thing, decided to become a teacher in
another started their teaching, you know,
(01:15:08):
practice at like 40 years old.
Like there's so many different ways you
can. Some people became cops or fire men
or women or people like it's all
different things that you can do. But 40
seems to be that age where people pivot.
I don't know if it's the beginning of the
mid life crisis, but it's that that's
just the pivot that
I've seen people make.
(01:15:28):
So it doesn't necessarily mean you're
going to be in the same job all the time.
There's probably not going to be the same
job all the time, especially the way jobs
are going these days. And and it's not
necessarily that you are going to have
the path that you think you're going to
have. That's going to
meander quite a bit.
I co-host a podcast called the Beyond
Jaws podcast with Dr. David Ebert. And we
interview shark scientists and
practitioners and conservationists all
(01:15:50):
the time. Like every couple of weeks we
put out an episode and we
talk about their career.
And when we talk about their career, a
lot of times it meanders, they go in and
out of studying sharks. So they'll study
other fish or they'll say something
completely different or they'll go
somewhere completely different.
Or they'll get out of the industry
altogether just to make some money and
then come back and they and they do that.
And they proudly mentioned that because
(01:16:10):
when you see their bit, a lot of these
people are very well published and
they're they're very well known.
But people don't know about the
intricacies of their career because
they've just never heard it before. They
don't know because all their reading is
their papers. So we have them on a podcast again.
We have them on a podcast to get to hear
it. They're like, oh, OK, so so and so
had this wonderful career, but it was in
and out a little bit. It wasn't perfect.
(01:16:30):
OK, mine doesn't have to be either. Your
career does not your ocean conservation
career does not have to be perfect.
Let me repeat that your ocean
conservation career does not have to be
perfect. It's not a straight path. It's
going to meander a bunch and you have to
really you have to accept that.
And maybe even like just just kind of
(01:16:51):
know that it's coming. Anticipate the
meanderness. That's a word. I don't know.
But like you have to learn that because
if you don't and you expect to be
straight and something happens, you're
going to think your career is a failure.
And I would say as a coach, I always tell
my kids like my my players fail, fail
often, fail fast, fail often and learn
(01:17:12):
from those mistakes or learn from those
decisions and then get better and be
better and you'll be stronger in the end.
So the whole point of this podcast is
having an ocean conservation career will
make you stronger, will make you better
as a person, but it won't be a straight
path. It will meander. Be ready for it,
anticipate it and enjoy the heck out of
the process because it's a fun process.
(01:17:33):
There's ups and downs and it's a great
story and tell your story. Come on this
podcast. Tell your story. Go on the
Beyond Jobs podcast. Tell your story. We
always want to hear people's stories
because we want to share the experiences
so that when people go through
themselves, they're not alone.
You're not alone. So many people had
different types of stories. So I want to
just mention that to you because I think
it's really important that we share that,
(01:17:54):
you know, ocean conservation careers are
not a straight path.
And I want you to know that. So for me to
you, you're welcome. Enjoy the process.
If you ever need help, reach out. I'm
always there to help you out. You can DM
me at how to protect the ocean. You can
also go over to our YouTube channel and
subscribe and hit that notification
button to see all different types of episodes.
(01:18:15):
As I mentioned the last episode, I'm
doing things a little differently lately.
I'm recording the raw audio podcast first
and then I'm recording a more of a
cleaned up version, more succinct version
because YouTubers don't have the
multitasking ability that audio
podcasters do because the way the apps
and the way the platform is.
So they tend to watch more. So they tend
(01:18:36):
to be a little less time and a little bit
more edited or not edited, but just
succinct and yeah, and we'll just see you
soon. Those edited. This is the last non
edited video for a while.
I'll be editing more videos in a little
bit, but they'll be coming out for a
bunch. But I just I just want to get this
off my chest because I think it's really important.
I found that the kids that I taught last
(01:18:57):
last week that I presented in front of,
they really enjoyed it. They really took
it to heart. And a lot of the questions
that came out were about confidence. It's
like, how did how confident were you
every time? Like, do you ever question
the path you were taking? And my answer
to that was yes, yes, I did every single
day. I still do. And I'm still
questioning it because you never know if
you're taking the right path, but there
is no right path. Your path is the right
path. So, you know, own that. Okay. So anyway, that's it for today's episode. If you want to get a hold of that, I'm going to be doing a video on how to do it.
(01:19:35):
I can't really just I can just say that, or what it looks like. This video has an
awesome feature on it, but the mph method
page, hearingcentered hosting
Thank you so much for joining me on
today's episode of the how
to protect the ocean podcast
I'm your host Andrew Lewin from the true
north strong and free. Have a great day.
We'll talk to you next
time and happy conservation
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