Ocean Conservation Meets Innovation: Inside The Undertow’s Global Mission

Episode Transcript
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(01:00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome
back to another episode.
I'm Andrew Lewin, as you know,
and today's episode is not
just special, it's a milestone.
I'm joined by two incredible change
makers of the ocean,
Amanda Horn and Serena Wynn.
And together we're announcing something
we've been working on behind the scene
for quite some time.
It's called The Undertow.
It's a platform and
community built to support the people

(01:00:21):
who are driving ocean
conservation forward.
And the initiative is
about more than just awareness,
it's about action, it's about connection,
and it's about impact.
And if you've ever felt like you wanted
to do more for the ocean,
but didn't really know how to do it,
or if you're already taking action and
want to be part of something bigger,
like a bigger wave,
this episode is for you.

(01:00:42):
So stick around as we share the story
behind The Undertow,
why it matters and how you can be a part
of it on this episode of the How to
Protect the Ocean podcast.
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another
exciting episode of the
How to Protect the Ocean
podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin.
This is the podcast where you find out
what's happening with the ocean,

(01:01:02):
how you can speak up for the ocean, what
you can do to live for a
better ocean by taking action.
On today's episode, we're going to be
talking about The Undertow,
something that I've been working on with
Serena Amanda for quite
some time behind the scenes.
It's something that we
wanted to present to you today.
We are launching something because we
feel like there are two major needs in
the ocean conservation community.
One, there are a lot of people who are

(01:01:22):
doing projects on their own.
They are trying to find their own path.
They're trying to kind of just sort of
march down their own lane
and really take down barriers,
break ceilings and so forth.
But they're doing it by themselves.
And we think that as a community, we can
help uplift and support those people as
well as get their message
out there on a bigger scale.
And that's what we want to do.

(01:01:43):
The other thing that we find is that
there are communities out there, but
there's not a lot of communities out
there that are trying
to put action together.
Having both of those pieces, the people
who are trying to do some great things
and having a community that
needs those things to be done,
to be able to guide them to and be able
to be like, hey, what's greenwashing?
What's blue washing?
You know, what can we
actually buy this good?
How can we connect to the ocean more?

(01:02:03):
What we could do for our corporations,
like our businesses, to get to a better
level in terms of acting better for
climate change and
the ocean and so forth.
This is all part of the undertow.
And this is what we're going to be
talking about today and why we decided
that this was the best way forward for
ocean conservation and filling a need
that if you fit within
either of those groups,

(01:02:24):
we can do together and collaborate
collaboration is the key in this.
It is part of our vision.
It is part of our mission.
And it's something that I feel is going
to go a long way in this ocean
conservation community.
So we are going to be
talking about that today.
So I have Amanda and
Serena on the podcast.
I'm the host, but I'm also going back and
forth and talking about the ideas that

(01:02:46):
we've come up with and what we want to
establish as the startup.
And I can't wait Serena and Amanda were
the ones who approached me
to be a co-founder on this.
I'm providing the science and providing
the podcast and communication.
So now you're going to see how to protect
the ocean powered by the undertow, which
I'm very excited to do.
And I can't wait to
do that in the future.

(01:03:07):
It's going to be a lot
of fun in the near future.
And we're going to be
launching this very, very soon.
So here is the interview with myself,
Amanda and Serena in joy.
And I'll talk to you after.
Hey, Amanda.
Hey, Serena.
Welcome to the how to
protect the ocean podcast.
Are you ready to talk about the undertow?
Yes, we are.
Yes.
Nice.
This is a very special and exciting

(01:03:29):
episode for me as well as for both of
you, because we're announcing something
that we've been working
on for quite some time.
It's called the undertow.
We're going to get into what it all means
and how it's going to hopefully affect
you all that are listening to this and
watching this in a very positive way.
I'm very honored to have both of you on

(01:03:50):
the podcast today because like we said,
we've been working together
for quite some time on this.
Both of you have been working together
even longer than I have with you, with
you, with all of us.
And so I am excited to talk about what
we're going to be talking about today.
And it's really a way to impact in a
positive way for the ocean, but also
bring people together, get them to do

(01:04:11):
actions, bring them
together as connections.
And I can't wait.
So before we get into all of that
wonderful stuff, why don't we just get to
know a little bit about the both of you?
So Amanda, we'll start with you.
Why don't you let us know
who you are and what you do?
Absolutely.
I'm so excited to be back on the podcast.
It's just it feels very full circle

(01:04:31):
because at the time when we had our first
conversation a couple of years ago, I had
just made this pivot into the ocean.
I had no idea really where
I fit in it as a marketer.
I knew that I love building brands.
I was really going down that route.
But what I realized now is I was looking
for a an action pathway, like of how I

(01:04:51):
could take action for the ocean, like my
personal passion and excitement for it
and bring that into my work.
So I'm super excited to
have this conversation today.
And it's just such a great story of how
we met as Landlauf Burlington people and
then the story of how
Srita and I came together.
So we're just going to talk about this
little convergence of us as co-founders.

(01:05:11):
So I guess to start, I'll say that my
name is Amanda Horn.
I am a co-founder, one of the three
co-founders of the Undertow.
And I just saw all of my connections to
water are really what have brought me
here and just really want to inspire
others to take action for it.
So scuba diver, free
diver, love eating seafood.
I'm pretty into like water

(01:05:32):
and the water wellness space.
That's something that really changed my
life, like through cold plunging.
And these days, every experience that
I've had that has been positive is
usually always tied back
to water lakes included.
So we can't forget our
fresh bodies of water.
I grew up around
skeleton lake with my family.
So lots of amazing
memories up there at the cottage.
And now that I have a nice, it's just

(01:05:53):
really exciting to see, like, through the
generations, how water is just such a
thread throughout my personal and
professional identities.
That's me.
Love it. Love it.
Serena, how about yourself?
Why don't you let us know
who you are and what you do?
I'm so excited to be on today.
It's kind of full circle for me, too,
because when I started my water journey,
your podcast, How to Protect the Ocean,

(01:06:14):
was one of the first that I started
listening to to build my knowledge and
deepen my understanding of how all of the
things are connected.
So I am also a water lover, but my water
awakening started a little bit later.
I am now a certified diver.
I did first start with

(01:06:35):
free diving, snorkeling.
I was your typical beach lover and Amanda
to your point, cottage lake lover.
And over time, I really started to think
about how I could spend the hours that I
was doing in all of my other careers to
focus on something that was really

(01:06:55):
important to me and make sure that I was
protecting and sustaining something that
hopefully I could share
with my future family.
And so my water awakening started through
all of those activities and just got
strengthened, strengthened with each new
experience, each coming back to water
being around water, each

(01:07:16):
gap away from it as well.
I don't know about you all, but I know an
extended period of time away from water.
Eventually, I get that, you know, that
urge and need and meditative state to to
see and be around water.
So I'm very excited to share how all of
that has kind of transpired to me being
one of the co-founders
of the Undertow as well.

(01:07:37):
I love it. I love it. I'm going to I'm
going to do something that I
haven't done in a long time.
And that's sort of
reintroduced myself to the audience.
Whether you're new to this, this podcast
and listening or watching or not, it
doesn't matter because this I feel like
this is like a new beginning, not only
for myself, but also for an end.

(01:07:58):
for all three of us together, but also
for the podcast because the podcast is
going to play a pretty
big role in the Undertow.
And I'm super excited for that.
But my water journey began when I was a
kid and it was it started off watching TV
and watching the Jacques Cousteau's of of
my day and and all the different
discovery channel and not geo and even

(01:08:19):
the magazines and going to the library
and looking up books.
And the only books that were available
were these picture books like these
beautiful photography
books like collections.
And that was where it really started. I'm
like, I need a kid from Scarborough, like
Toronto being like I'm surrounded by
pavement and I like I have the Toronto

(01:08:39):
Zoo, which is the
closest thing to me to animals.
But I want the ocean. I need to be by the
ocean. And like I think the first time I
touched the ocean when I was nine years
old in Florida, we went to we went to
Florida for a family trip.
And since then, I've been absolutely in
love just exploring trying to be in the
water as much as as much as possible and
then becoming a scientist and a marine
biologist to do that.

(01:09:01):
And then eventually over time, evolving
into a science communicator to be like,
look, we need to talk about the ocean.
And if I don't start talking about it and
explaining what's happening to the people
around me and the people on this platform
that I've built is is is going to be a waste of time for me.
And I need to start doing that. And so it
became like my way to not only stay

(01:09:23):
connected to the ocean and what was
happening, but also to educate and make
people aware of what was
happening in the ocean.
And that's sort of where, you know, we
came in and and I'm going to just start
off a little bit in terms of like how the
undertow really came to be because we all
have very different backgrounds, like

(01:09:43):
professional background.
You know, always we all grew up in
Ontario and we, you know, we all have
that that connection, right? And the
Canadian connection and so forth.
But we very we we we did we can't we
converged but from very different
backgrounds, which I think is a benefit
to what the undertow is
becoming and has become.
And, you know, coming from a science

(01:10:05):
background, coming from a science
communication background, the frustration
that I keep seeing about talking about
things that happen in the ocean and then
not being able to see action from it or
being like not having not feeling like I
have control over the action.
And I think that, you know, that going
back and forth of like, look, the major
action is coming from policy and
government that, let's be honest, a lot

(01:10:26):
of us don't have a huge influence as an
individual, you know, but there are
certain things that we can do as an
individual, which can
help, but not as an individual.
You still need to have people in a
community to do this as a community and
you'll have more impact that way. And
that works with government, like
influencing government as
well as doing individual actions.

(01:10:48):
And that was the frustrating part is not
finding that place and kind of feeling
like I'm on this island, seeing other
people do some really cool things and
then not being able to be a part of it,
you know, kind of like, quote unquote,
stuck in Ontario around these beautiful
Great Lakes that we have.
But then, you know, nothing, nothing
coming out of it. So it was very
frustrating. And then I met the both of

(01:11:09):
you, you know, and and that's where sort
of we kind of came together and be like,
okay, let's like, let's get
together and do something.
But the idea wasn't mine originally. It
was, let's talk about it. Who do we who
do we start with first? Because Amanda,
you're the one who introduced me to
Serena. So why don't you go ahead first
and just sort of talk about how your

(01:11:31):
journey led to to the undertow.
Yeah, sure. So, I guess it goes back to
when I started it was post pandemic and I
was just trying to really listen to like,
what should I be doing next I my
background is in marketing.
I know that that's something I love. I
love being creative. I love building

(01:11:51):
brands. So and now when I think of
marketing, like it's so much more of
like, less about content, but it's all
about like the operations and building
these systems and where do you create
these online spaces that have a really
good experience associated with them.
So I got really into that whole like
customer design experience design user

(01:12:11):
experience design and really looked at
how to weave that to like create those
really engaging digital spaces and like
media has such a huge role in that, which
was the thing that I
always really, really loved.
So you're trying to build a brand, which
means you're giving an identity to an
organization or whatever that mission

(01:12:34):
that vision and those were starting to
come in really clearly for me. I had no
idea what it is that I wanted to build. I
just knew that I wanted to start a
conversation around ocean conservation.
I wanted to do it in a credible way in a
cheeky and playful way that was going to
kind of counteract all this doom and
gloom and things that I was seeing. So
that's where I ended up started going
down the path of maybe I want to create

(01:12:56):
this waterless personal care brand to
help start to move people through the
world in a more conscious way.
Like as somebody who loves to travel, but
then I was starting to really understand
the impact and the footprint that we
leave when we don't want to ever stop
discovering places and
spending time near the ocean.

(01:13:17):
So I was really starting to think about
how do we measure this? How do we reduce
the impact of our everyday actions on the
ocean and the world's bodies of water, no
matter where in the world we are.
So I started building that and I had no
idea where to start and I wanted to be
credible about it. And I knew that I
needed to start talking to scientists and
sustainability experts and all these
people. I had no network in this space.

(01:13:38):
My network was strictly wine.
Like it was all sommeliers, wine
marketers, governments and people from
the different liquor boards across Canada
and a great network of international
wine, wineries and distilleries.
And I definitely still tap into today,
but I was like, I'm building this from
scratch. I just want to have coffee
chats. I just need to have conversations
with people to understand what it is that

(01:14:00):
they do and may or may not need to pick
their brain on something.
So I started having these really
conversations and didn't want to blog
about it because now you're a founder,
you don't have time to do that. And I
just found like having these like open
kind of like podcast style, like we're
just capturing these live.
And I listen to a lot of medium podcasts
as well myself and I hear these amazing
experts and I hear their stories and I

(01:14:21):
just really thought it would be so cool
if there was a place where those guests
from the podcast if they had opted into
it like could be accessible
like I want to learn more.
I want to go deeper than what it was that
I just heard there. So this idea around
okay if I'm building a brand I need to
build a community is there a place to
house this community. How do we start to
inspire other people who might want to

(01:14:43):
follow like a similar path, but
really make it their own. And I'm so
grateful to everybody that was willing to
talk to me in the beginning when I had
really no no ask. And I just found
there's so much pressure to like when you
reach out over LinkedIn for a coffee chat
there has to be an action item there has
to be a deliverable but you're just
information gathering and you're just

(01:15:03):
trying to figure it out.
Mentors have always been so important to
me. So I was trying to bring in a little
bit of that thinking and was like, okay,
we need a place to put these people. And
then ultimately when Serena and I met,
and I'll kind of let her
tell the story of how we
were able to do whatever happened. But we
had very similar ideas and like

(01:15:24):
complimentary parts and things that we
wanted to work on. So I just remember one
of the things that we really aligned on
up front was that there is
so much good work being done.
And sort of a

(01:16:04):
in people aren't
understanding that our lives every day
and the impact that our
actions have on the ocean,
how do you even start to
build that conversation
when there's so much on
the climate change side
or climate action that's
still just very ambiguous
and confusing and people
just really didn't know
where to start.
So that was kind of
where this problem we started

(01:16:25):
to noodle on of how do
we build this knowledge
and action hub to be able
to lead with those stories
and let people to come and connect
and then find a way to
take action in their life
through the way that
they live, work and play.
So I'll pass it to Serena.
Nice.
No, I love that.

(01:16:46):
And I love the reminder of your story
because it just goes to show
that all of these
different converging backgrounds
that you had led you to
water in various ways, right?
Which is, I think a
bit of the loss narrative
for the general population
around how the ocean connects to them
and why everybody should care really.

(01:17:06):
So kind of then we'll
get into the mission
of the undertow I know,
but it just goes to show
you don't need to have a
marine science background
or kind of that deep
scientific background
to begin exploring this path.
So my background is a little bit more of
that corporate path.
I was in management consulting,
early, early days I was in mining.

(01:17:26):
So, you know, the
other side, if you will.
But then I started moving into tech.
Through tech, I started getting exposed
to a whole bunch of startups,
whether it was at Microsoft or startups,
being in a FinTech myself.
So during that FinTech boom, you know,
when everybody was like,
FinTech's not a thing.
And then all of a sudden, you know, the

(01:17:47):
largest kind of exits.
And I wanted to really start to think
about, like, what do I want to focus on?
And I had a mentor of my
reach out for an opportunity.
And I was curious about it
because what it allowed me to do
is get my foot in the door with climate.
I knew eventually somewhere
my path would lead to climate.
Just didn't know how, because I came from

(01:18:07):
such this like traditional tech and
corporate background.
But it was really incredible because I
was like, OK, like, let
me get my foot in the door.
The place was Mars Discovery District.
There's about twelve
hundred startups there.
It's one of the largest in North America
and in Toronto itself.
And what I got to see there was the
incredible power of
not just enterprise tech,
but climate tech as well.

(01:18:29):
And, you know, through that, I was doing
actually I was wearing way
too many hats, to be fair.
I was I was doing my role at Mars and
then I was also
standing up social nonprofit.
CLAR, the Coalition of
Innovation Leaders Against Racism.
We've recently pivoted that to advancing
respect, where I got to work with

(01:18:49):
executives across some of Canada's top
innovation companies,
tech and innovation that combined
academia, universities and research
startups themselves and
some government partners.
And so what I started to really think
about is how how do all of these networks
support climate change?

(01:19:11):
And then for me, climate
was a big, broad thing.
But because I wasn't deep into it yet, I
had to start understanding
where I wanted to play in climate.
And with all the hats that I was wearing,
it's very hard to get enough thinking
space to get that clarity.
And so I wanted to take a break and
create that space for myself while being

(01:19:33):
productive and maybe learning down a path
that I thought was interesting,
which led me to an internship in the
Cayman Islands Central
Caribbean Marine Institute.
Wow. And I thought, yeah, I was like, you
know what, I love water.
I love the ocean.
I'd love to spend more time in it, but I
don't understand enough.

(01:19:54):
I know it plays a really big role living
in Canada, largest coastline, access to
the Arctic, fresh
water, plus, plus, plus.
I was like, there's something here and I
just don't know what it is.
So I knew I needed to build my knowledge.
So I went on this internship, took a
break from I had very
supportive leaders, thankfully.
So I took a break from both of my roles.
I was still kind of doing some of that

(01:20:16):
work, to be fair, writing proposals in
the middle of the night.
But I connected to the ocean and I got to
meet incredible researchers and
scientists from Woods Hole, from the
Smithsonian, from University of Florida,
from folks from the University of Elat.
And so and that's where I actually got my

(01:20:37):
open water certification.
And that was just a nice place to do it.
And I feel kind of spoiled.
I'm not going to lie.
Everybody warned me that like you are
going to get you're going to be.
It's going to be a different experience
when you go to other places.
Yeah, you're being spoiled.
Right. I'm being spoiled.
But what I got to learn is that people

(01:20:59):
were doing, Amanda, to
your point, incredible stuff.
There was an intersection of tech and
ocean science happening.
I just hadn't been
exposed to it just yet.
And there was more that we could do.
So that got my hat up thinking about, OK,
well, what are my strengths around
understanding the corporate pathways,

(01:21:22):
understanding the commercialization
pathways for startups and then
understanding that there's this huge
climate space that's taking off and huge
opportunity for Canada.
And I just needed to know what was
happening to learn more because what I'm
really good at in my previous roles is
building ecosystems, building
communities, building
coalitions of action.

(01:21:43):
And so I know that this is a big enough
problem where any single one individual
operating in their silo,
that's going to move it.
A millimeter of where it
actually needs to move.
And that's not for the wrong intention.
It's just it's such a big problem that
we're trying to change or solve for.
So how do you break that down and do it

(01:22:04):
efficiently and effectively?
And for a lot of folks like myself who,
you know, want to see a
future with clean oceans,
nature that we can share with our future
families, our nieces, our nephews.
You know, I started really thinking about

(01:22:25):
how I dedicate all of those hours I was
spending on really important things to me
into something that really I wanted to
wake up and like do every day and be next
to you and share with my friends and
family and community.
And so coming back from that sabbatical
or whatever you want to call it,
internship, time off, really just

(01:22:47):
solidified that I had a strength to to
bring to this ecosystem.
I didn't have to be the only expert, but
I imagine I'm not the only person trying
to navigate how I can
actually contribute to this.
And as I started meeting people, a lot of
folks had came from
more corporate backgrounds.
A lot of the folks leading the
accelerators and the incubators and some

(01:23:08):
of the startups came from more of a
corporate background.
And a lot of the folks in my network who
are like, you know, what's this thing
that you're like this
thing that you're doing?
I've never heard of the blue economy.
I was I was shocked at how many folks in
my networks that I've never
heard of the blue economy.
Meanwhile, for myself, I'm
like, but you live in Canada.

(01:23:28):
So there's obviously a disconnect and an
opportunity to really start making this
conversation, I think, a little bit more
accessible and inclusive because
everybody is connected
to water and the ocean.
They do and can play a part
in some small or large way.
It's just we got to
give them the pathways.
And so I started going to conferences

(01:23:50):
and, you know, talking to the
accelerators and the incubators and some
of the startups and trying to leverage my
network as much as possible to to really
immerse myself in this.
And that's where I met Amanda in
Barcelona at the UN
Ocean Decade Conference.
I was just I started following people on
Instagram and
LinkedIn and all that stuff.

(01:24:10):
And I messaged an artist, actually, that
I really appreciated the
work that she was doing.
And I was really inspired by the
adventures she was taking, how she was
using art to communicate that to folks.
And I said, hey, are you going to be at
the UN Ocean Decade?
And she said, no, but funny enough, I
have another Canadian
friend who will be there.
Let me introduce you both.

(01:24:32):
And so she introduced me to Amanda.
We started chatting and coordinating to
to meet at the conference.
And, you know, this is in between all the
conference activity.
And I'm I'm a sponge.
I'm trying to soak up as much information
because I want to see how all these
pieces start to fit.
But we connected, grabbed a beverage on
the beach, you know, inspired by.

(01:24:53):
Yeah, inspired by the ocean.
And we just started talking about her
journey, which I was like, yeah, I'm
having the same problem,
like building ocean knowledge.
I'm so thankful to the people who are
making time for me to to
educate me and build my awareness.
But like, it's all in silos, right?
And I could start to see see

(01:25:14):
that pattern kind of emerge.
And I had no intention of of
proposing my idea to Amanda.
I was just like, you know, this is just
going to be, you know, you're an in
person coffee cat, you know, or whatever.
And but then I just I just felt like it
was the right time to to just say, hey,
we're both trying to do the same thing.

(01:25:37):
If I'm going to live by the principle of
doing things efficiently and scalably and
like leveraging people with strength, she
has a strength that I don't have.
Yeah. And so why don't we come together
and see if there's enough alignment in
both of our ideas that we could work
together to be more efficient.
But then also really lean on each other's

(01:25:57):
strengths to build faster and to build
more thoughtfully and more inclusively
and with all of those things in mind.
And so I said, hey, Amanda,
do you want to be no pressure?
But like, do you want
to be like co-founders?
Yes. And then, yeah, then we just

(01:26:18):
proposed and then we just
kind of took it from there.
We're like, and we were very I think we
were very pragmatic about it.
We respected each other's IP.
I know Amanda had been working on this.
She knows I had been working on this.
And so we said, you know, if you're
comfortable, like, let's put NDA's in
place and make sure, you
know, all of those things.
But let's not let those early stage ideas

(01:26:41):
be the thing that stop us from going down
the path of really understanding if
there's an opportunity for
us to do this better together.
And, you know, I think that's part of the
values alignment that we had was like we
wanted to respect that IP.
We wanted to respect that effort that we
had, you know, sweat equity that we had
already both put into things.

(01:27:02):
And and I think that's a lot of the
principles that we
continue to collaborate on.
And, you know, Andrew, I hope you
eventually felt when we reached out to
you to say, hey, are you here?
We have an idea. And
this is where we're headed.
Are you interested in joining in?
So I'll leave it at that because, Andrew,
I think this is where you
might want to pick up the baton.

(01:27:23):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
I mean, this was and I've described to
other people and including my wife, I'm
just like, this was the
perfect opportunity for me.
It was it was something that was very
different from what I was seeing in the
marine science field, even
the marine conservation field.
It was something where, you know, I've
been advocating for collaboration.

(01:27:44):
I've been advocating for
sharing of information.
I've been advocating for supporting one
another within within this
ocean conservation field.
Right. And and this was when when when
you guys presented this to
me, I was just like this.
This is it. Like right
off the bat, I was like, OK.
And at first I was like, I'm just like,
OK, so I'm going to am I

(01:28:04):
going to be part of this?
Is this something that I want to go down?
And I just looked at, you know, I went
back to what I've been talking about over
the last decade doing the show.
And I was like, this could work.
And I really see the podcast as a big
piece of of the undertow.
And so I was like, OK, like, you know,
I'm very careful of, you

(01:28:26):
know, who I have on the podcast.
I'm very careful of who I work with and
who I collaborate with.
And I was and who I share my show with.
And I've just been like, OK, yes.
Like this is something where I get I and
I still to this day, I
continue to be excited about this.
We meet usually about twice a week and
we're discussing this stuff.

(01:28:46):
And and I'm like, oh, I
really start to get excited.
You know, you know,
I'm excited to launch.
I'm excited to get
people in the undertow.
I'm excited to meet people.
I'm excited to engage with people.
And I'm excited to work with the both of
you because I feel as though our
background, as I mentioned before,

(01:29:06):
complement each other so well, you know.
And and we all come with this specific
expertise and together the way we met and
the way we're willing to move forward as
it as like a unit and go for it.
Be like, yes, like this is this is great.
And we all put in our own, you know, two

(01:29:27):
cents into every strategy point that
we're looking at or any
action point that we're looking at.
We're like, OK, this is this is the way
we're going forward.
And I love that aspect.
And I am so excited that
we get to work together.
And I'm excited that we've got to do this
podcast today and
talk about the undertow.
And the one thing that really got me
excited is, Amanda, when you gave the

(01:29:51):
pitch and you were like, this is the
undertow and this is why
we're calling it the undertow.
So can you do that right now?
Don't want to put you on the spot.
I'm kind of putting you on the spot.
But you have such a good way of putting
it of where the term like where it where
like the idea of calling the undertow,
the undertow, where it came from and how
it fits into what we're doing.

(01:30:13):
I love this. There's just so much
symbolism and how this all came to be.
And again, as Serena was talking about,
like we truly put on paper for days while
we were in Barcelona,
like what are your values?
What are mine?
Like, what was your
intention behind this?
And what is the real problem that we're
trying to solve or the
solutions that we want to explore?

(01:30:35):
What is this like identity?
And what's this transformation that we
want this platform to
guide people through?
And you had another like your initiative
was going to be called the undertow.
It was a podcast.
Right.
And I just remember thinking like that
has to be the name of this
thing that we do together.
Because if we're really trying to

(01:30:56):
counteract this like fear or apathy that
people have towards water in the ocean, I
just find I'm a diver, a divemaster now.
And when I tell people I'm so excited to
go diving, a lot of them
say, oh, the ocean's so scary.
Like why? And so I'm like that I was
being met with that.
That's before I started spending all this
time with these ocean lovers.
But I was so frequently met with that.

(01:31:18):
And it struck me so much as you're not
going to take action for
something unless you care about it.
So we have to figure out how to create
positive water experiences because once
you feel that like I haven't met anybody
who stuck their head underwater, like
snorkeling, diving, whatever, who's been
like, oh, this is awful
unless the reef is dead.

(01:31:39):
But most people are are like and when you
talk to people who have had that moment,
had that awakening, whatever it was, no
matter what sport it was or just like
they went for a
romantic walk on the beach.
Like water is weaved into so many of
these different stories.
So we're like, OK, we need to lead with
this love element and
like counteract that fear.

(01:32:00):
So the idea behind choosing something
that people typically fear like the
undertow, because it's so
unpredictable, you can't trust it.
It is just like this
ultimate fear of the unknown.
And once you're in like you're forced to
just like surrender to it.
And I started reading a little bit more
on like how are under toes formed?

(01:32:20):
Like what is this word actually mean?
And then I learned like
their strongest in the shallows.
I actually met someone the other night
who said that ankle deep, he was swept
out and now is like so afraid of water.
So you're in the shallows.
You're just kind of on waiting.
So like I would equate that to somebody
who's just like
starting to dip their toes in.
So now the undertow pulls you in.

(01:32:40):
But the thing that I found that was
really interesting and
Andrew, you're a scientist.
So correct me if my research is wrong.
So my understanding is that it weakens
the deeper that you get.
And that's where it
opens up to create new ways.
So this idea that you are we're pulling
you into the undertow, we're pulling
these people that I guess I have to
actually pitch what the undertow is so

(01:33:01):
that this all makes sense.
Yes. That's the philosophy.
So what the undertow is is a marketplace
for ocean knowledge and ocean action.
But powered by the stories of
this human ocean connection.
So we really wanted to create a place
where we could highlight people who are
moving through this motion of their water

(01:33:23):
is having their awakening.
Now they're realizing that that depth and
personal connection they've had to water
in whatever way, shape or form has now
inspired them to take
action through their work.
And maybe they've initiated an
organization, a project or something.
But they have now decided the ocean is my
life, water is my world, and I'm going to

(01:33:44):
just champion that all day long.
So it was just this interesting
combination that combined that like sense
of urgency that we need to have with also
taking something that is typically seen
in a negative light.
But wanting to reframe it that once you
deepen your knowledge on something, you
can't ignore like the power that it has.

(01:34:05):
And from the shoreline,
you can't see the undertow.
So it's like there is so
much power in that unseen.
And if we could build up this collective
of people who are rallying towards this
mission, which ultimately is how do we
create 10 million new ocean connections
and unlock five million dollars in ocean

(01:34:28):
action by World Ocean Day 2030?
That's a big ask.
That's a really big goal.
And so for three of us to sit here and be
like, we're just going to do this without
anybody else like that's crazy.
So it really spoke to we need everybody.
So whatever your superpower is, whether
you're working in climate or not, maybe
you've never considered the connection
between ocean and climate.

(01:34:49):
You're in a
completely different industry.
Maybe you're marketing wine and now
you're trying to figure out how to bring
that skill set over into the space.
There's so much room for everybody.
We just ask you to lead with water and
choose a way to take action for it.
Yeah. And and I think the other side of

(01:35:10):
that is, Amanda, you mentioned like folks
coming in and changing their life.
Part of the undertow is to also inspire
just everyday individual action. Right.
To your point, a lot of people at this
unseen thing, they're like, oh, you know,
I don't see the ocean.
I don't live by the ocean like it doesn't

(01:35:30):
matter. It doesn't affect me.
That's that's not our
belief at the undertow. Right.
It really is that it connects everybody.
And so you might not know and see it and
you might not initially feel like you
have a part to play.
But if you just flow and let let us pull
you in, let the undertow pull you into

(01:35:50):
all of the ways that you
might be connected to water,
whether that is vacation, whether that's
adventure and sport, music, arts,
science, research, innovation,
technology, there's an element that is
connected to everybody.
And they call it the what
the ocean is our lifeblood.

(01:36:12):
And so everybody can make a change,
whether it's on an individual level
within their communities or
within their organizations.
And so this marketplace is to now we're
now going to throw all the puns at you to
create all the pathways.
I'm just putting that out there of how

(01:36:34):
you can take action. Right.
And so we don't want people to feel
paralyzed by not having enough knowledge
in order to feel like
they can take action.
Think of this as your way of taking bite
sized pieces of knowledge and then tying
that to a tangible
change that you can make.
And so we don't want people to feel like

(01:37:04):
they can take action.
And so that's really part of the power of
the undertow is that we create that
platform for you to also inspire that

(01:37:25):
action side of change.
And I think also, too, is in Amanda, you
kind of said it when you're talking about
when you first get dragged in the
undertow, it's chaos, right?
You're you're panicking what's going on.
But I've seen that happen so many times.
People starting to, you know, listen to
the podcast or starting to learn about
some of the major issues that are
happening with the ocean, climate change,

(01:37:46):
plastic pollution, overfishing.
It's a lot to take in and the right away
we want to go drastic right away. We want
to, you know, we want to live, as I
mentioned, like four better ocean.
We want to live as best we can. But it's
very difficult to do that. And so it's
very easy to just go, oh, I'm
going to just live this way.
But then you look around at some of the

(01:38:09):
products that are available, some of the
greenwashing that companies are doing.
It could be very complex to try and
figure out. I mean, look, the three of us
have been trying to figure out how to buy
Canadian for the last month.
And even then that's difficult because
there's so many layers. Well, imagine
trying to scale that up to climate change
and scale that up to buying like the
right type of products.
And if you buy the wrong part, somebody's

(01:38:29):
like, well, you're not actually doing
what you're supposed to be doing.
And I think the goal of the undertow is
when we bring you in and you join is to
guide you through that
process, that chaotic process.
And to just like kind of hold your hand,
so to speak, and just be
like, you know what, it's OK.
Like, yes, the ocean has some problems.

(01:38:50):
The world has some problems. But we're
going to take you through this and we're
going to show you the
little things that you can do.
But we're also going to show you some of
the big things if you are in a position
to do so, what you can do.
You know, that could be at the corporate
level, that could be at the individual
level, that could be
at a community level.
There's so many things that you can do
that will help you not only just start
that down that path, but

(01:39:11):
inspire you even more to do it.
And like, I have to admit, like when I do
something, even just buy a small product
that I know is good for the ocean, I feel
so good about myself.
And I start talking about it to
everybody. I know that sounds weird, but
I start talking to
everybody, people on this podcast.
But that's and that's just what we want
to do. And we want to provide you with

(01:39:32):
that and provide you with like a safe
space to understand
that things are complex.
It's not as easy as we think to fix some
of these problems, but there's different
things that we can do to do that.
And we are going to help you guide you
through that. And wherever you are in
your stage of life, whatever, wherever
you are in the world, that you can take
part in some sort of capacity and then

(01:39:53):
hopefully build up and then build that
repertoire of like, OK,
I've gone from one action that may have
seemed little to like just gaining your
knowledge to all of a sudden ramping up
and be like, hey, maybe I came up with a
business idea that will help.
Or maybe like my entire family is living
as as clean as can be, you know, and that
kind of stuff. And then you find out you
save some money on stuff or who knows,

(01:40:15):
you know, a lot of the times that climate
and when you start to change for climate
change, things start to get cheaper when
you when you really look at it.
So so, yeah, I love that. And I think
what's really important is that, you
know, I still buy plastic, you know, like
I there are just some things we're human
at the end of the day.
And so I think another important element
of this community is the human ocean

(01:40:38):
connection isn't just about your what
inspired you to start
caring about the water.
It's also to bring in the human element
of things. Right. What moves
you? What are you afraid of?
Let's have those real conversations and
inspire each other to take action without
the judgment and the
fear of getting it wrong.
Right. Listen, there's enough pressure in

(01:40:59):
the world to get things right. We don't
want that to be the thing that stops you
from making those little changes. Right.
Yeah. I'm on a journey.
Amanda is on a journey. Andrew, I'm sure
you're still on your journey. Right. By
no means is my life perfectly ocean safe
and free and or anything. Right.
But do I have a desire to what's my

(01:41:21):
what's my why behind this one? Because
I've seen now what's
under the water and I love it.
And from my days of snorkeling and
freediving through to becoming an actual
diver, the change that
I've seen has been startling.
And I think about this from what about my
niece and nephew? What about my future

(01:41:41):
children? Like I would love to go take
them snorkeling or diving.
I would love to take them surfing to try
out surfing. But will will it be the same
or can we make it better so that they can
enjoy and be inspired by all the things
that I've been inspired by?
Yeah, Amanda, you talked about the

(01:42:02):
creativity components to like I do my
best thinking looking out into space,
which, you know, I'm not going to space
the water or looking
out into the vast ocean.
Like that is the thing that calms me that
is. And this is something that Amanda and
I talked about, you know, something that

(01:42:23):
calms me, sparks my creativity.
There's a reason why CEOs have offices
that typically look out on vast expanses
or have leader leadership retreats that
are on the water because it is
scientifically proven to allow you to
think differently problem solving come
from a more centered and grounded place.
And Amanda, I know this is a huge part of

(01:42:45):
what brought you to the ocean. So I'll
let you speak to more
of the blue mine stuff.
I love all of this. And that was the
biggest thing is like, if you can connect
to just one thing that we can all
understand, like we were talking about,
you know, the lifeblood and the lungs of
the planet and all these metaphors and
then analogy things.
But when it comes down to it, like in

(01:43:06):
order to sustain the planet, like we have
to sustain ourselves as people so that we
can take better action for it. So when
you can start to create the connection
between ocean health and human health or
how the well being of the world's bodies
of water is connected to our well being
as humans, you can follow that thread to
better performance,
productivity, like reduced stress.

(01:43:27):
Like if we think of health issues that
come, it's not just about air pollution.
Like let's also talk about eco anxiety
and mental health and the impacts of all
of these things. And like you were
talking about, Andrew, it's not about
like shame based and fear.
But when you cannot deny that you

(01:43:51):
genuinely feel better when you go outside
and take a breath of fresh air or you
stare at an open body of water. And
that's really where I was having my own
cold water ice plunging like breath depth
connection awakening in 2021.
I read deep by James Nestor and I was
just so blown away by the physiological
changes that happened in our bodies like

(01:44:12):
the deeper that we go. That led me on to
blue minds and the work of Dr. Jane
Nichols. And then I also picked up oceans
for dummies by the kustos. And I think
they wrote it as like a
COVID, you know, project together.
And they had one small chapter at the end
of the book called the human ocean
connection, which was mostly about all

(01:44:33):
the negative things that humans have done
to impact the planet. So it was all like
garbage floating, you know, out in the
ocean, kind of all of those pieces.
But I started looking at the positive
side was if you can start to understand
that your body and your health and all of
these other things absolutely connected
to the health of our bodies of water,
then maybe that's something that people

(01:44:55):
will start to see. And it still feels
like there's no simple way for somebody
to just capture that.
So you have to speak to them in a way
that really resonates with them, which is
why when you ask people like, what is
your connection to water, like have them
sit in that moment and think like, what
are the moments where I feel most
connected? And then from there, we hope

(01:45:15):
that that will inspire them to want to
say like, okay, yeah, there is something
that I can do. Just choose one thing, you
can't do everything, we
can't do everything right.
And the world is really being redesigned
right now. So we need these solutions, we
need people working on this to be able to
reduce those impacts and put better ways
forward. So just good to have

(01:45:36):
conversations about it to be able to
support each other as those feelings of
anxiety and things are coming up, like
certainly feeling like there are no good
options, like you're getting overwhelmed,
but then that kind of social learning
element coming together and sharing
knowledge and yeah, that's what we're doing.
Yeah, I'm just I'm very inspired on a

(01:45:57):
daily basis after the hundreds of coffee
chats that I have, you know, in the last
couple of years and hearing what other
people have tried. Yeah, they've been
working in other cultures and what can we
like propose and try to bring back to
Canada and elsewhere.
Like it's a different way to learn, like
I'm very much I don't learn by like

(01:46:18):
traditional textbooks anywhere I love
learning through other people's
experiences and there's just so many
different types of knowledge to be
exchanged that I think that adds a lot of
value when you include different
perspectives as well.
Definitely inspiring when you start
hearing all these stories being told from
all different parts of the world. I mean,
that's the good part of social media is

(01:46:40):
you get to connect with as many people as
possible that that are within, you know,
your area of interest, right?
That the topic of interest and I think
that's an important part and it's
storytelling has always been an important
part of conservation, you know, from
indigenous led conservation, even to the
stories that people talk about all the

(01:47:00):
time when we hear science, you know, it's
the reason why I started the podcast
because listening to the stories of the
people that I admired at conferences that
I met through my work, I was just like,
how do people not
know about these stories?
These stories like you and then straight,
you kind of mentioned is like these
stories get siloed as well, just as as

(01:47:20):
work does and and it kind of stays within
either a culture or a different part of
like a specific part of the world and it
doesn't get shared across across
different platforms or across different
countries or across different fields.
And that that's frustrating to me. And so
to be able to bring and bring in people
within the undertow to help share their

(01:47:41):
stories because everybody has a water
story. It doesn't matter where you live.
You live by the water that is connected
to the ocean that's connected to the
lifeblood of this planet and without
sharing those stories and
how everybody is connected.
We remain disconnected, not only as
people and as a species, but we remain
disconnected in the work and the action

(01:48:03):
that we could take. And I think this is
where the undertow comes comes into play.
You know, this is where we come in as
fostering that community and building
this platform to be like, hey, like you
feel the same way we do.
Like you feel frustrated. You have like
certain pain points that you want to help
out. You've got a story. Come and join

(01:48:24):
us. You know, we'd love to to bring you
in. We'll take you through the chaos.
We'll get to that point where we're just
floating in the ocean and enjoying our
time and and being like, you know what?
We got through it. We got through it
together. And I think that's an
important. It'll bring us closer. And
just to put it as analogy, I'm a
crossfitter, not a very good one. I'm a
crossfitter. And the workouts, if anybody
knows anything about crossfit, the

(01:48:45):
workouts are brutal. And it doesn't matter if you're a crossfitter.
And it doesn't matter if you are any
elite athlete or you are someone who's
just beginning, you work out just as
hard. And they always say at the end of
it, everybody's on their backs, sweating
their butts off, trying to get their
breath back and just wondering like, what
was that? And then when you start talking
about after, you're like, that was awful,

(01:49:05):
but I'm so glad I did it. And you become
closer to that. Again, I worked out with
like games athletes before. And you know,
you bond afterwards and you're just like, okay, I'm going to do this.
Like, okay, like that was really cool.
And yeah, it sucked. But we got through
it and we're better for it on the other
side. And I think that's that's exactly
what we want to do with the undertow is

(01:49:27):
bring that the people in. Yeah, we'll do
a little suffering together.
There's, you know, it's not all good. And
then we bring in and but we get through
it on the other side and we're like, you
know what? I'm really happy where I am
right now. No matter where you are in
your journey, you can always just kind of
put it together and just be like, okay,
like we did this together.
And you know, we're going to continue to
do it together and we're going to
continue to build sort of our capacity to

(01:49:50):
do more hard work and to do it together
and be able to get through it on the
other side. So that's
what I love about this.
Now, with this podcast is not just to
inform you what we're doing, but we are
launching very, very shortly. So to do
that, we want you to come into our
community. And so there's a bit of a
pre-registration for it as we build out

(01:50:10):
the platform and get
everything ready for all of you.
But we want you to come in and we want to
see that excitement. So you can you can
pre-register. The link is speak up for
blue.com. The undertow. So speak up for
blue.com. The undertow. And if you want
more information on what we're trying to
build, you can go
over to the undertow.ca.
That's the undertow.ca. You can check us

(01:50:31):
all out. Our profiles are up there. You
can check out what we're trying to do.
And if you have any questions, you know
how to get a hold of me and you guys will
link. We'll put links to your social
media sites as well. So that you can get
a hold of Serena and Amanda.
And we're going to build this community
and we want you to be a part of it. So
it's going to be a lot of fun. And this
podcast is now powered by the undertow.

(01:50:52):
And I'm very excited to say that. Like I
can't like I'm shaking a
little bit. This is a lot of fun.
I'm very, very excited for that. So
Serena, Amanda, thank you so much for for
coming on the podcast. Obviously this is
not this is your first time. I mean, this
is your second time. But definitely not
the last. We'll have you back on. We'll
discuss more of the undertow soon enough.
Hopefully we're going to our next

(01:51:14):
episode. We're going to do what we're
going to do in person. But of course, if
you guys want to come and talk to us, you
can do that on the undertow. So speak up
for blue.com. The undertow.
Check it out. I'll put the links in the
show notes. But ladies, thank you so much
not only for coming on the podcast, but
for what we're about to build. And I'm
looking forward to it. Thanks for having

(01:51:35):
us. And we can't wait to share more about
how we're going to reach that really big
ambitious goal of 10 million new ocean
connections and 5 million in ocean action
for all of the incredible people doing
the work that we've learned about through
these stories and connections that we've made over the last few years.
So, Andrew, thanks so much for having us

(01:51:55):
on. We're so excited. And that is very
exciting. Powered by the undertow. I like
it. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Thank
you, Serena, for joining me on today's
episode. This very, very special episode
of the how to protect the ocean podcast.
What do you guys think the undertow? I
would love to hear your thoughts. This is

(01:52:16):
going to be something that we're going to be pushing forward and we are going to ask you to join a list so that when we do this, we can be able to help you.
We want you to be the first ones here.
This podcast is going to be that funnel.
One of those funnels to bring in people
in the community because you've already
listened to me on a number of occasions.
If this is your first time, welcome. If

(01:52:36):
you've been listening to me for a long
time, whether it's been a few weeks, a few months, a few years, you know, feel free and come join because you know the evolution that I've been on. You know, the evolution that you've been on in your journey to join.
And now we are upping that and we are
going to do some great things and I can't
wait to get to know you even more within
this community is something that I've

(01:52:57):
been wanting to do for a long time and I
have the ability to work with two phenomenal women in this project and this business and start up to be able to bring that to you. So having, you know, a lot of people are like, you know, I'm going to be a little bit more of a fan of this.
And I can't wait to bring it to you. So

(01:53:21):
if you want to sign up if you want to be
a part of the community, please do so
speak up for blue.com forward slash the
undertow that speak up for blue.com
forward slash the undertow.
And you can get access will put you on an
email list. Once we get access, we will
contact you and you'll be able to join
and enjoy the time that you have in
there. Give us feedback. We're always

(01:53:43):
looking forward to it. But for now, speak
up for blue.com forward slash the
undertow is what I'm going to be asking
you to do each and every episode is join
and I can't wait till you do so. So thank
you so much for joining me on today's
episode. I want to thank also my co
founders, Amanda and Serena for joining
me and thank you for listening and thank you for listening.
And I'm Andrew Lewin joining the
undertow. If you have any questions, you

(01:54:03):
know how to reach me at how to protect
the ocean. And thank you so much for
joining me today on this episode of the
how to protect the ocean podcast. I'm
your host, Andrew Lewin from the true
North strong and free. Have a great day.
We'll talk to you next
time. And have a conservation.

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