May 30, 2025 • 21 mins
Ocean recovery is not just possible, it’s already happening in places where we’ve taken action. In this episode, I dive into Ocean with David Attenborough, a documentary that reminds us of the ocean’s incredible resilience. From thriving coral reefs to fish populations bouncing back, the film offers powerful proof that when we give marine ecosystems space and protection, they can heal faster than we think. It’s a rare example of ocean storytelling that balances urgency with genuine optimism.
Bottom trawling, however, threatens that progress. The documentary pulls back the curtain on this destructive fishing method, revealing how vast swaths of ocean floor are scraped clean, alongside the fish, sharks, and invertebrates that live there. The fishing industry’s backlash has been swift, but the film doesn’t dwell on blame. Instead, it shows us that even in damaged habitats, life can return when given the chance. The hope is real—but only if we act now.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:00:00):
I just came back
from watching the
movie Ocean
narrated by Sir
David
Attenborough and
I have to admit I
loved it
I'm not usually a
huge fan of
documentaries
that are
this size
Although
everything Sir
David
Attenborough is a
part of seems to
do really well
and I
really like it
But over the last
couple of years
there have been
some
documentaries
have come out
I'm not even
gonna mention
some of them that
(01:00:21):
have been totally
off. I really
like this movie
I'm gonna talk
about what I
liked why I like
the message of
hope and also
we're gonna talk
about some of the
Controversies in
this movie
because there's
always
controversial
there's criticism
from the fishing
industry
We're gonna talk
about the bottom
trawling that was
talked about in
this movie as
well as the
marine protected
areas that was
talked about
In this movie on
(01:00:42):
this episode of
the how to
protect the ocean
podcast. Let's
start the show
Hey everybody,
welcome back to
another exciting
episode of the
how to protect
the ocean podcast
I'm your host
Andrew Lewin and
this is the
podcast where you
find out what's
happening with
the ocean how you
could
speak up for
The ocean and
what you can do
to live for a
better ocean by
taking action on
today's episode
We're gonna be
talking about a
movie that I just
(01:01:02):
came back from
seeing
called ocean
It's really tells
you exactly what
it's all about
ocean is by Sir
David
Attenborough
narrated by Sir
David
Attenborough
He is 99 years
old folks
99 and for the
past
couple of years
He's been working
on this movie
that was released
in theaters and
selected theaters
It was a small
venue for me that
I went to him
usually go to
these big big
(01:01:23):
epic movies
This is a small
movie, but it was
packed with great
messaging some
controversies
I want to kind of
clear up a little
bit and also it
just opens the
conversation to a
lot more
Let's just say
that and I think
it's really great
that it does that
it was released
on purpose before
the ocean decade
conference
In Nice France
and even mentions
(01:01:43):
it in the film
and it's
something where
it's like hey,
you know what?
We need to really
be able to
protect our
oceans and land
But our oceans
especially and we
need to do that
at this
conference and we
need to get some
great results
So it's calling
on all the
negotiators at
this conference
to come out with some
great results
I will actually
be there at that
conference
So I'll give you
the lowdown of
what I
experienced and
(01:02:03):
what I saw at
this conference
I'm going to a
bunch of side
events not the
main conference,
but I'm sure
there's gonna be
lots to
talk about
So let's get into
the movie of why
I loved
this movie
It really comes
out to the
messaging the
messaging of hope
a lot of times
I've seen these
documentaries and
they talk a lot
about the
destruction
that's happening
a lot of times
they cover
everything
(01:02:24):
You know, you're
looking at the
major ones over
fishing
climate change
plastic pollution
water quality
problems with
other pollution
like industrial
pollution
and so forth
Development along
coastal lines
aquaculture and
so forth. There's
a lot of things
that they
like to cover
There's you know
a couple of them
have covered like
coral bleaching
and the messaging
(01:02:45):
is very
depressing
throughout the
entire film
There's no
message of hope
and they really
talk about the
conservation
aspect of it in
the last five
minutes sometimes
even in
the credits
These aren't
great
documentaries
because they're
good at telling
you what is wrong
They're not going
to tell you how
you can do and
you just leave
the people with
this pessimism of
(01:03:05):
the ocean of
what's happening
Around our planet
and to a point
where people are
just giving up.
It's like well if
we can't do
anything
who cares
I'm just
gonna give up
It's almost like
eating and
getting on a diet
if you don't see
the results that
you want
right away
You can get off
that diet and you
almost eat worse
than what you did
before when you
restrict yourself
So it's really
important that
messaging that
(01:03:26):
comes out of
these
documentaries
like ocean
Has to be
positive has to
show hope we love
movies with
hope humans
Love stories with
hope hence the
Star Wars
trilogies have
been great with
messages of hope
That's what it's
all about and
that's what ocean
is all about.
It's about hope
the movie
starts off
You know spoiler
(01:03:47):
warning there's
not much spoilers
in this one
But spoiler
warning the movie
starts off
showing the
beauty of the
ocean what I
really love about
it right at the
beginning
It ties the
connection of the
deep sea to the
surface right off
the bat. We see a
bait ball
We see a bunch of
sharks. We see
dolphins
We see whales and
then we all of a
sudden we see sea
mounts and David
(01:04:07):
Adam Brill's
talking about how
sea mounts play
an important
Role to bring up
nutrients from
the bottom of the
ocean the deep
sea to the
surface to feed
all of these
traveling species
It's really
really well done
and then talks a
lot about the
canyons that are
down there and
how many sea
mounts are
down there
Where they are
and they show
this almost 3d
image of the
bottom of the
ocean really
(01:04:28):
giving a
perspective
of how?
Productive the
ocean can be I
think a lot of
times when we see
open ocean we see
it as a barren
Waterway a barren
just a water
column and we
don't see much
happening other
than maybe a
whale or two or
maybe a shark
That's you know
traveling from
one place to
another we don't
think about the
connection
between the deep
sea and the
surface was
(01:04:49):
right away
I think it really
brings up
the you know
How we're messing
around with the
deep sea too much
talking about
deep sea mining
and so forth
really gives
people
perspective that
it's all
Connected and
that we need to
be careful
doesn't mention
deep sea mining
But you kind of
like somebody who
covers ocean all
the time
I'm like this is
a great way to
get people to
really think
about the deep
sea and how it's
connected to the
(01:05:09):
surface and how
we could benefit
as humans and
bringing up
plankton that you
know bring in a
third of the
carbon
dioxide and
Absorb the third
of the carbon
dioxide in our
atmosphere and
how important
that is just from
a climate change
reduction point
of view and it
Doesn't talk
about the
productive nature
of upwellings
Which is bringing
nutrients from
the deep sea to
the surface so
that animals can
(01:05:30):
like whales and
dolphins and tuna
and all
those animals
Can feed off of
especially if
they're migratory
species. It was a
great way of
depicting it
I loved right off
the bat just
depicting it
right away. I
thought it was
really well done
I did something
that I think we
need to know from
a perspective
then it starts
talking about
different
Habitats around
the world, you
know, we see
areas in Africa.
(01:05:51):
We see areas in
the northern UK
We see areas into
the Channel
Islands and we
see a lot of
different areas a
lot of different
like kelp forests
And then we see
these scallop
beds we get to
see these coral
reefs like in the
Indo-Pacific and
so forth
It's just a
really good
depiction of the
different types
of environments
that are around
talks
about you know
The discovery of
(01:06:12):
this massive
seagrass bed that
we discovered a
couple of
years ago
That was
discovered by
work done by dr
Austin Gallagher
friend of the
podcast in his
team of beneath
the waves
It was great to
see all these
depicted wasn't
just coral reefs
that
showed benefit
It was all these
different
habitats that had
beautiful colors
and fish from all
over and people
talking about
How important it
is for them to
(01:06:33):
fish talked
a lot about?
artisanal fishers
so local fishers
that are
really just
Benefiting
themselves by
fishing and want
to fish for
generations and
generations
generations are
looking to be
more sustainable
Working with
probably
scientists and
governments and
so forth to be
more sustainable
And I think
that's a really
important message
(01:06:53):
Especially as
they get more and
more into the
movie because
when they get
into the movie
they talk about
Industrial
fishing in this
movie they're
focusing on
industrial
trawling and they
even have
cameras that are
hooked up to the
trolls multiple
angle cameras
that are hooked
up to a trial to
show how
Devastating a
trawl could be a
trawl that comes
through I've
(01:07:13):
talked about this
a number of times
We'll go
over quickly
It has these
doors that sink
and open up the
net it has a
chain that
connects the
doors at the
beginning the
entrance of
The nets a
massive net that
trails behind and
then it just
scrapes
the bottom
With that chain
and it takes
everything every
fish and critter
that's in there
and it'll
put it up now
We're gonna talk
a little bit more
in a bit about
(01:07:34):
trawling and how
they could be
changed and how
it's
optimized to be
A little better
we're gonna talk
about that in a
bit, but that's
what it shows
It shows kind of
the devastation
that it leaves
You know in its
path as this wide
opening say 10
foot may 20 foot
wide opening net
Just destroys
everything in its
path and it goes
for a certain
amount of
kilometers and
then it pans out
to a drone
It shows the
(01:07:54):
different paths
which are very
narrow paths, you
know, just to
look at it from
that perspective
But we're gonna
talk a little bit
about why they're
showing these
trolls because
they're talking
about how
trolls are
Allowed to go and
pretty much
anywhere in
certain countries
in the UK. There
was a study that
was released
I think I covered
it on the podcast
90% of the MPAs
in the UK allow
bottom trawling
(01:08:15):
now if you think
about an MPa
Which it talks
about in the
episode as one of
those
hopeful things
It says look
here's this
fishing this
devastating fish
in that if you
use trawling over
and over and over
again the
same area
It's gonna
destroy the
habitat and we'll
get into that a
little bit, but
we could get
away from it
It talks a lot
about this
depressing stuff
and you get
depressing
I was watching
with my daughter
my daughter says
(01:08:35):
she even cried in
certain
situations there
because it was so
depressing
to see these
animals suffering
like
invertebrates and
so forth and just
a barren sea
after seeing such
a productive area
But then it goes
into some hope it
says hey
You know what the
ocean can recover
really quickly
when it recovers
really quickly is
once we start
telling people
that you
can't fish
In certain areas
certain areas are
known to be
(01:08:55):
productive and
once those areas
are productive
and fish are
allowed to come
back and regulate
The habitat then
they start to
have a spillover
effect outside
the boundaries of
the marine
protected area
And then that
could spill
effect can go for
kilometers
depending on the
species and its
larval dispersal
rates and
everything
like that
And it has such a
benefit. I want
you to watch the
movie. So I'm not
(01:09:16):
gonna say the
whole explanation
I want you to
watch the movie
because the
imagery and the
videography
is just
Phenomenal, you
know seeing the
different colors
of the shallows
and different
colors of the
deep sea
It's just
amazing. So you
have to watch it,
but that was part
of the message
was this hope I
was like,
oh, okay
So they're
talking about a
lot of depressing
stuff. They
didn't spend the
whole movie on it
But they talked a
lot about the
hope and MPAs
then they started
(01:09:36):
talking about the
problem with some
MPAs in the way
they're managed
Which is great.
They could have
gone into a
little bit
more detail
But I know what
they were trying
to do and then
they started to
come back and
they say hey, you
know what?
We've actually
had some great
things the
Channel Islands
off the coast of
California
in the USA
The Channel
Islands came back
and they had a
marine protected
area and people
said oh, you know
after a while
We started to see
changes happening
and then we
started to get
record numbers of
(01:09:57):
catches in
this case
It was lobsters
finally, so you
started to see
this and you're
like, okay, so
this is
actually working
We've seen this
before in the
literature
We've seen marine
protected areas
that if done
properly and
managed properly
and enforced
properly
You can see a
change back to
the system that
was productive
and a change in
the habitat
So that was
really great the
(01:10:17):
messaging overall
was like we have
hope the ocean
can recover
There are people
that can do some
really
great things
They talked also
about Antarctica
and some of the
trawling that's
happening
Antarctica for
krill and how the
whales are
using that
Area at the
Southern Ocean to
get krill and now
they're running
out of food
So what's gonna
happen with the
whales they even
talked about the
recovery near the
(01:10:37):
end especially
which I thought
was really
interesting
They talked about
how we've done
this before
We've taken
animals to the
brink of
extinction ie
whales when we
used to hunt
whales back in
the 1800s
Almost to
extinction
because we used
to hunt whales
for fuel. That's
how we got fuel
That's how we
burnt all the
lights and
everything like
that and how the
lights stay on
they would
burn slower
That was our
(01:10:58):
energy and so we
hunted whales to
the brink until
we said, you know
What we
discovered oil
and gas oil and
gas became the
main
producer of energy
People want to
stop hunting the
whales eventually
stopped there's
certain countries
that still do but
for the most part
We've seen a
recovery of
humpback whales
of bowhead was of
a lot of
different whales
out there blue
whales
that you know
We're hunted to
(01:11:18):
almost extinction
and now we've
seen like they're
great
conservation
stories if we put
together
Conservation
winds we can
really do a
good job now
Here's what they
talked about
right at the end
before
the credits
They basically
wrote on text on
the screen
basically saying
that the ocean
decade conference
coming up in Nice
France where
countries are
gonna be
Negotiating and
trying to sign
and talk about
what the work
that they've been
(01:11:38):
doing to protect
30% of the ocean
by 2030 and 30%
Of their control
like exclusive
economic zone,
you know
They'd call for
those countries
to do a better
job to get more
protection
Faster because
there's only
globally there's
less than 3% of
the ocean
protected
But we're seeing
a lot of
productivity come
from that 3% and
we're also seeing
others now
There's a lot of
issues
(01:11:59):
surrounding MPAs
and designated
MPAs one
I mean, it's not
really an issue,
but it takes a
long time
It takes a long
time because it's
conflict
management
You are telling
people who used
to be able to
fish or do
anything in a
certain area that
they're gonna be
restricted
from doing
That activity in
that area. It's
not just fishing.
It's any kind of
extractive type.
So it could be
oil and gas
It could be
mining it could
be development.
(01:12:19):
It could be even
recreational
activities
depending on how
bad that area is
So you have to do
a lot of conflict
management
You have to do a
lot of
compromising a
lot of
negotiation to
get an area
protected
And once you get
that area
protected which
could take
anywhere from a
year to like 10
years even longer
to get protected
Then you have to
enforce and you
have to manage
and you have to
go through
adaptive
management
process to change
the
(01:12:40):
management with
You know
different types
of changes that
are going on in
the world a lot
of stuff
going on there
That was really
interesting to
see they didn't
mention that in
Antarctica
There is the
eastern part of
the ocean in
Antarctica the
southern ocean
that they
want to protect
they've been
trying to get it
protected for
over 10 years and
Antarctica is
managed by 24 25
countries
including China
and Russia who
keep you know
(01:13:00):
Blocking the vote
to get this area
protected. They
did protect the
Ross MPa or the
Ross sea which
was great
But now they want
to protect this
other area to not
only
protect krill
But other fish
like what they
call the Chilean
sea bass, which
is different fish
I think it's
called Patagonia
and tooth fish
and so people are
trying to protect
but it's hard to
protect
these areas
So there's a lot
of different
issues and then
(01:13:21):
we talked about
the enforcement
the UK allows
bottom trolley
and 90% of its
marine
protected areas
That's got to
change because
you can't protect
an area. You're
not just
protecting
species
You can't protect
an area because
that's where they
live. That's
where they eat.
That's where they
interact
You have to
protect that area
You can't let
bottom trolley a
destructive
fishing practice
that will come
through and
destroy a
particular part
of the habitat
If that continues
(01:13:41):
to happen over
and over and over
again, you know
Even it starts
off as narrow
bands that can
increase and
increase as
bottom trolley
continues
to happen
So there's got to
be some
restriction of
extractive
processes in
marine
protected areas
In fact, it was
argued that you
don't really have
a marine
protected area if
you allow
extractive
processes like
fish bottom
trolley in marine
protected
(01:14:01):
Areas, so there
are a lot of
things that
happen that have
to be stopped now
Let's talk a
little bit about
trawling
Trawling is a
destructive
practice like I
talked about
before it scrapes
the bottom. There
are different
types of trawlers
bottom trawling
There's like mid
water column
trawling where
basically the
trawl goes
through the
water column
It doesn't
actually hit the
bottom and it
takes anything in
the area
I think the krill
(01:14:22):
are going through
like the mid
column trawling,
but it doesn't
destroy
the bottom
But it does take
a lot depending
on how big the
net it does and
in the oceans
It shows that
they're pretty
big nets and a
lot of processing
going on at sea
before it gets
taken to shore
And so there's
obviously
problems with it,
but does take a
narrow band
So if managed
properly, maybe
you can say hey,
(01:14:42):
yeah, we can
actually do this
But you can't you
know, there's
certain times
you're be able to
trawl if you take
a narrow band in
a productive area
And you don't
fish beyond that
that band will
fill in with
other organisms
as succession
happens
in ecology
But you know, you
have to be
careful and
manage that
It's very
difficult to
manage at sea
when you're not
there all the
time and
then you know
People can just
(01:15:03):
go they'll beg
for forgiveness
instead of asking
for permission at
sea and they'll
just keep
Trawling so you
do have to be
careful with
that. There have
been advancements
in
trawling in terms
of net size in
terms of
exclusive devices
such as sea
turtle
exclusion devices
I think there are
also for some
like dolphins as
well where it
allows these
animals to
get out of
the net and be
able to survive
(01:15:23):
there's mesh
sizes which allow
to be more
selective in
terms of the
type of fish so
they'll have
larger mesh sizes
for larger fish
so the smaller
fish can go
through the mesh
and they won't
get caught trying
to reduce bycatch
but I did look up
some statistics
on it and so
according to some
sources bottom
trawling accounts
for approximately
25% of the
world's wild
caught seafood
(01:15:44):
and when you
include mid-water
trawling it
contributes just
over one-third
So just over 30%
of global fish
catches in
Canada. I want to
get something
specific
in Canada
It's about 6.5%
of the national
fish catch is
obtained through
trawling methods
The bycatch
concern is that
the bycatch is
estimated at 23%
(01:16:04):
indicating a
significant
portion of
non-target
species caught
and discarded
In the US the
trawl percentage
accounts for
approximately 4%
of the catch from
trawling
activities
And then the
bycatch is nearly
50% now UK
As I mentioned
90% of the MPAs
have permitted to
have bottom
trawling
But the trawling
(01:16:24):
stands for
approximately
3.7% of the fish
catch the
nation's
fish catch
So maybe it's not
actually
happening even
though 90% of the
MPAs allow
it to happen
It may not be
happening
everywhere other
notable countries
that have some
significant
trawling
Approximately 65%
of its seafood in
the Netherlands
is caught by
bottom trawling
in Morocco
(01:16:44):
Also reports
about 65% is
caught from
bottom trawling
and then Vietnam
bottom trawling
accounts for 59%
of its
seafood catch
So now obviously
when you're
looking at bottom
trawling, you're
worried about
habitat
destruction
You're also
worried about
high
bycatch rates
So non-targeted
species including
endangered marine
life are caught
and discarded
leading to
ecological
imbalances
(01:17:05):
And then of
course carbon
emissions was
mentioned in the
ocean as you
start to dredge
out the bottom
Sediments starts
to get moved and
carbon dioxide
gets released
into the
atmosphere
There's some
recent studies
that say that it
may release
substantial
amounts of carbon
dioxide by
disturbing carbon
rich sediments on
the ocean floor
So there's a lot
going on with
bottom trawling
not the best
fishing method
(01:17:26):
Obviously,
there's certain
countries that
depend a
lot on it
And there's other
countries that
don't depend a
lot on it
And of course the
management of
MPAs varies from
country to
country
to country
The UN came out
with some
stipulations in
terms of what a
marine protected
area is and they
kind of
follow that
And then we're
also seeing more
conservation
coming in near
shore as I talked
about a couple of
weeks ago with
(01:17:46):
Angelo Villagomez
and Alia Hadiat
from the center
of american
progress talking
about how near
shore protection
should start to
ramp up and
increase
Because we're
doing a lot on
offshore
But we're not
doing as much on
the inshore where
it's just a
harder
place to do it
The coastal area
is the harder
place where we
are going to be
having problems
in conflict
resolution
That has to take
place before we
(01:18:06):
can start to
protect those one
of the things
they talked about
papahana
makua kaya
The marine
sanctuary off the
islands of hawaii
or just northern
islands of hawaii
Which is a huge
place that has a
great
spillover effect
Obviously that
was the subject
matter of some
controversy a
couple months ago
when donald trump
opened it
up to fishing
So that's going
to be a problem
But there's a big
(01:18:27):
focus on this in
the movie
They talk a lot
about how the
size of it's
great and
everything is
doing well
And it's
increased catch
rates by 54
outside the
marine protected
area, which is
all wonderful
The one thing
though that we
should mention is
that in areas
where it's
overseas
territories such
as the
hawaii islands
I guess not
really territory
It's a state but
still like in
those areas where
(01:18:47):
it's
indigenous led
It's great to
have that
protection
because
especially with
indigenous led
marine protected
areas is usually
pretty good
because it's part
of their culture
However, a lot of
the bigger marine
protected areas
are in areas
where there's a
big indigenous
population
There's less in
the main
population the
non-indigenous
population
because it's
harder to do
And it becomes
(01:19:08):
more conflicting
and we try to do
one of the sea
mountain canyons
in the us
Just off the
coast of
massachusetts. I
don't know if it
ever got brought
back, but now
that donald trump
is in power
I'm sure it was
an executive
order when it
first came in
under the obama
administration.
Donald trump
took it away
I think biden
took it back. I'm
sure it's got
back stripped
down again
So these are big
problems that
happen not only
in the us but all
(01:19:28):
over the world
Mpa's are not
easy to designate
which you know,
the movie made it
sound like it
could be
It's not an easy
thing. It works
when it's done
properly and it's
enforced and it's
managed properly
But when it's not
or it takes a
long time to get
it approved, you
know destruction
continues
to happen
And there's
always you know
countries who are
wanting to
get on top
The papahana
makua kia got
opened up because
(01:19:49):
you know, the us
want to be number
one in the
pacific
for fishing
Pretty much that
was the reason so
that's a big
problem when you
talk about mpa's
and trying to
keep mpa's intact
and protected
So lots of stuff
going on great
message of hope
the fact is hey
You know what?
There's our ways
to do it. We just
have to do it
We just have to
actually go out
and execute and
put in more
marine protected
areas get up to
that 30 percent
Or as close as
(01:20:09):
possible by 2030
and just continue
to work at it and
work at it and
work at it
So I hope you
have a chance to
go see it. I
don't know what's
going to happen
This was a
release it came
out a little
later in canada
than it did in
the uk when it
was first
released at the
Beginning of the
month in may but
I highly
recommend you go
get I hope they
put it out
on netflix
Or on some
streaming channel
that everybody
can get access to
because I think
it'll make a lot
(01:20:29):
more waves
No pun intended,
but I hope you
get to see if
you've seen it
and you want to
let me know what
you
thought about it
Please let me
know in the
comments down
below if you're
watching this on
youtube or you
can go to speakup
for blue.com
forward slash
Contact fill out
the form
Let me know what
you thought of
the movie or if
you're looking
forward to seeing
the movie and
then of course
you can always
Hit me up on
instagram at how
to protect
(01:20:50):
the ocean
That's pat how to
protect the ocean
I want to thank
you so much for
joining me on
today's episode
of the how to
protect the
ocean podcast
Have a great day.
We'll talk to you
next time and
happy
conservation
I just came back
from watching the
movie Ocean
narrated by Sir
David
Attenborough and
I have to admit I
loved it
I'm not usually a
huge fan of
documentaries
that are
this size
Although
everything Sir
David
Attenborough is a
part of seems to
do really well
and I
really like it
But over the last
couple of years
there have been
some
documentaries
have come out
I'm not even
gonna mention
some of them that
(01:00:21):
have been totally
off. I really
like this movie
I'm gonna talk
about what I
liked why I like
the message of
hope and also
we're gonna talk
about some of the
Controversies in
this movie
because there's
always
controversial
there's criticism
from the fishing
industry
We're gonna talk
about the bottom
trawling that was
talked about in
this movie as
well as the
marine protected
areas that was
talked about
In this movie on
(01:00:42):
this episode of
the how to
protect the ocean
podcast. Let's
start the show
Hey everybody,
welcome back to
another exciting
episode of the
how to protect
the ocean podcast
I'm your host
Andrew Lewin and
this is the
podcast where you
find out what's
happening with
the ocean how you
could
speak up for
The ocean and
what you can do
to live for a
better ocean by
taking action on
today's episode
We're gonna be
talking about a
movie that I just
(01:01:02):
came back from
seeing
called ocean
It's really tells
you exactly what
it's all about
ocean is by Sir
David
Attenborough
narrated by Sir
David
Attenborough
He is 99 years
old folks
99 and for the
past
couple of years
He's been working
on this movie
that was released
in theaters and
selected theaters
It was a small
venue for me that
I went to him
usually go to
these big big
(01:01:23):
epic movies
This is a small
movie, but it was
packed with great
messaging some
controversies
I want to kind of
clear up a little
bit and also it
just opens the
conversation to a
lot more
Let's just say
that and I think
it's really great
that it does that
it was released
on purpose before
the ocean decade
conference
In Nice France
and even mentions
(01:01:43):
it in the film
and it's
something where
it's like hey,
you know what?
We need to really
be able to
protect our
oceans and land
But our oceans
especially and we
need to do that
at this
conference and we
need to get some
great results
So it's calling
on all the
negotiators at
this conference
to come out with some
great results
I will actually
be there at that
conference
So I'll give you
the lowdown of
what I
experienced and
(01:02:03):
what I saw at
this conference
I'm going to a
bunch of side
events not the
main conference,
but I'm sure
there's gonna be
lots to
talk about
So let's get into
the movie of why
I loved
this movie
It really comes
out to the
messaging the
messaging of hope
a lot of times
I've seen these
documentaries and
they talk a lot
about the
destruction
that's happening
a lot of times
they cover
everything
(01:02:24):
You know, you're
looking at the
major ones over
fishing
climate change
plastic pollution
water quality
problems with
other pollution
like industrial
pollution
and so forth
Development along
coastal lines
aquaculture and
so forth. There's
a lot of things
that they
like to cover
There's you know
a couple of them
have covered like
coral bleaching
and the messaging
(01:02:45):
is very
depressing
throughout the
entire film
There's no
message of hope
and they really
talk about the
conservation
aspect of it in
the last five
minutes sometimes
even in
the credits
These aren't
great
documentaries
because they're
good at telling
you what is wrong
They're not going
to tell you how
you can do and
you just leave
the people with
this pessimism of
(01:03:05):
the ocean of
what's happening
Around our planet
and to a point
where people are
just giving up.
It's like well if
we can't do
anything
who cares
I'm just
gonna give up
It's almost like
eating and
getting on a diet
if you don't see
the results that
you want
right away
You can get off
that diet and you
almost eat worse
than what you did
before when you
restrict yourself
So it's really
important that
messaging that
(01:03:26):
comes out of
these
documentaries
like ocean
Has to be
positive has to
show hope we love
movies with
hope humans
Love stories with
hope hence the
Star Wars
trilogies have
been great with
messages of hope
That's what it's
all about and
that's what ocean
is all about.
It's about hope
the movie
starts off
You know spoiler
(01:03:47):
warning there's
not much spoilers
in this one
But spoiler
warning the movie
starts off
showing the
beauty of the
ocean what I
really love about
it right at the
beginning
It ties the
connection of the
deep sea to the
surface right off
the bat. We see a
bait ball
We see a bunch of
sharks. We see
dolphins
We see whales and
then we all of a
sudden we see sea
mounts and David
(01:04:07):
Adam Brill's
talking about how
sea mounts play
an important
Role to bring up
nutrients from
the bottom of the
ocean the deep
sea to the
surface to feed
all of these
traveling species
It's really
really well done
and then talks a
lot about the
canyons that are
down there and
how many sea
mounts are
down there
Where they are
and they show
this almost 3d
image of the
bottom of the
ocean really
(01:04:28):
giving a
perspective
of how?
Productive the
ocean can be I
think a lot of
times when we see
open ocean we see
it as a barren
Waterway a barren
just a water
column and we
don't see much
happening other
than maybe a
whale or two or
maybe a shark
That's you know
traveling from
one place to
another we don't
think about the
connection
between the deep
sea and the
surface was
(01:04:49):
right away
I think it really
brings up
the you know
How we're messing
around with the
deep sea too much
talking about
deep sea mining
and so forth
really gives
people
perspective that
it's all
Connected and
that we need to
be careful
doesn't mention
deep sea mining
But you kind of
like somebody who
covers ocean all
the time
I'm like this is
a great way to
get people to
really think
about the deep
sea and how it's
connected to the
(01:05:09):
surface and how
we could benefit
as humans and
bringing up
plankton that you
know bring in a
third of the
carbon
dioxide and
Absorb the third
of the carbon
dioxide in our
atmosphere and
how important
that is just from
a climate change
reduction point
of view and it
Doesn't talk
about the
productive nature
of upwellings
Which is bringing
nutrients from
the deep sea to
the surface so
that animals can
(01:05:30):
like whales and
dolphins and tuna
and all
those animals
Can feed off of
especially if
they're migratory
species. It was a
great way of
depicting it
I loved right off
the bat just
depicting it
right away. I
thought it was
really well done
I did something
that I think we
need to know from
a perspective
then it starts
talking about
different
Habitats around
the world, you
know, we see
areas in Africa.
(01:05:51):
We see areas in
the northern UK
We see areas into
the Channel
Islands and we
see a lot of
different areas a
lot of different
like kelp forests
And then we see
these scallop
beds we get to
see these coral
reefs like in the
Indo-Pacific and
so forth
It's just a
really good
depiction of the
different types
of environments
that are around
talks
about you know
The discovery of
(01:06:12):
this massive
seagrass bed that
we discovered a
couple of
years ago
That was
discovered by
work done by dr
Austin Gallagher
friend of the
podcast in his
team of beneath
the waves
It was great to
see all these
depicted wasn't
just coral reefs
that
showed benefit
It was all these
different
habitats that had
beautiful colors
and fish from all
over and people
talking about
How important it
is for them to
(01:06:33):
fish talked
a lot about?
artisanal fishers
so local fishers
that are
really just
Benefiting
themselves by
fishing and want
to fish for
generations and
generations
generations are
looking to be
more sustainable
Working with
probably
scientists and
governments and
so forth to be
more sustainable
And I think
that's a really
important message
(01:06:53):
Especially as
they get more and
more into the
movie because
when they get
into the movie
they talk about
Industrial
fishing in this
movie they're
focusing on
industrial
trawling and they
even have
cameras that are
hooked up to the
trolls multiple
angle cameras
that are hooked
up to a trial to
show how
Devastating a
trawl could be a
trawl that comes
through I've
(01:07:13):
talked about this
a number of times
We'll go
over quickly
It has these
doors that sink
and open up the
net it has a
chain that
connects the
doors at the
beginning the
entrance of
The nets a
massive net that
trails behind and
then it just
scrapes
the bottom
With that chain
and it takes
everything every
fish and critter
that's in there
and it'll
put it up now
We're gonna talk
a little bit more
in a bit about
(01:07:34):
trawling and how
they could be
changed and how
it's
optimized to be
A little better
we're gonna talk
about that in a
bit, but that's
what it shows
It shows kind of
the devastation
that it leaves
You know in its
path as this wide
opening say 10
foot may 20 foot
wide opening net
Just destroys
everything in its
path and it goes
for a certain
amount of
kilometers and
then it pans out
to a drone
It shows the
(01:07:54):
different paths
which are very
narrow paths, you
know, just to
look at it from
that perspective
But we're gonna
talk a little bit
about why they're
showing these
trolls because
they're talking
about how
trolls are
Allowed to go and
pretty much
anywhere in
certain countries
in the UK. There
was a study that
was released
I think I covered
it on the podcast
90% of the MPAs
in the UK allow
bottom trawling
(01:08:15):
now if you think
about an MPa
Which it talks
about in the
episode as one of
those
hopeful things
It says look
here's this
fishing this
devastating fish
in that if you
use trawling over
and over and over
again the
same area
It's gonna
destroy the
habitat and we'll
get into that a
little bit, but
we could get
away from it
It talks a lot
about this
depressing stuff
and you get
depressing
I was watching
with my daughter
my daughter says
(01:08:35):
she even cried in
certain
situations there
because it was so
depressing
to see these
animals suffering
like
invertebrates and
so forth and just
a barren sea
after seeing such
a productive area
But then it goes
into some hope it
says hey
You know what the
ocean can recover
really quickly
when it recovers
really quickly is
once we start
telling people
that you
can't fish
In certain areas
certain areas are
known to be
(01:08:55):
productive and
once those areas
are productive
and fish are
allowed to come
back and regulate
The habitat then
they start to
have a spillover
effect outside
the boundaries of
the marine
protected area
And then that
could spill
effect can go for
kilometers
depending on the
species and its
larval dispersal
rates and
everything
like that
And it has such a
benefit. I want
you to watch the
movie. So I'm not
(01:09:16):
gonna say the
whole explanation
I want you to
watch the movie
because the
imagery and the
videography
is just
Phenomenal, you
know seeing the
different colors
of the shallows
and different
colors of the
deep sea
It's just
amazing. So you
have to watch it,
but that was part
of the message
was this hope I
was like,
oh, okay
So they're
talking about a
lot of depressing
stuff. They
didn't spend the
whole movie on it
But they talked a
lot about the
hope and MPAs
then they started
(01:09:36):
talking about the
problem with some
MPAs in the way
they're managed
Which is great.
They could have
gone into a
little bit
more detail
But I know what
they were trying
to do and then
they started to
come back and
they say hey, you
know what?
We've actually
had some great
things the
Channel Islands
off the coast of
California
in the USA
The Channel
Islands came back
and they had a
marine protected
area and people
said oh, you know
after a while
We started to see
changes happening
and then we
started to get
record numbers of
(01:09:57):
catches in
this case
It was lobsters
finally, so you
started to see
this and you're
like, okay, so
this is
actually working
We've seen this
before in the
literature
We've seen marine
protected areas
that if done
properly and
managed properly
and enforced
properly
You can see a
change back to
the system that
was productive
and a change in
the habitat
So that was
really great the
(01:10:17):
messaging overall
was like we have
hope the ocean
can recover
There are people
that can do some
really
great things
They talked also
about Antarctica
and some of the
trawling that's
happening
Antarctica for
krill and how the
whales are
using that
Area at the
Southern Ocean to
get krill and now
they're running
out of food
So what's gonna
happen with the
whales they even
talked about the
recovery near the
(01:10:37):
end especially
which I thought
was really
interesting
They talked about
how we've done
this before
We've taken
animals to the
brink of
extinction ie
whales when we
used to hunt
whales back in
the 1800s
Almost to
extinction
because we used
to hunt whales
for fuel. That's
how we got fuel
That's how we
burnt all the
lights and
everything like
that and how the
lights stay on
they would
burn slower
That was our
(01:10:58):
energy and so we
hunted whales to
the brink until
we said, you know
What we
discovered oil
and gas oil and
gas became the
main
producer of energy
People want to
stop hunting the
whales eventually
stopped there's
certain countries
that still do but
for the most part
We've seen a
recovery of
humpback whales
of bowhead was of
a lot of
different whales
out there blue
whales
that you know
We're hunted to
(01:11:18):
almost extinction
and now we've
seen like they're
great
conservation
stories if we put
together
Conservation
winds we can
really do a
good job now
Here's what they
talked about
right at the end
before
the credits
They basically
wrote on text on
the screen
basically saying
that the ocean
decade conference
coming up in Nice
France where
countries are
gonna be
Negotiating and
trying to sign
and talk about
what the work
that they've been
(01:11:38):
doing to protect
30% of the ocean
by 2030 and 30%
Of their control
like exclusive
economic zone,
you know
They'd call for
those countries
to do a better
job to get more
protection
Faster because
there's only
globally there's
less than 3% of
the ocean
protected
But we're seeing
a lot of
productivity come
from that 3% and
we're also seeing
others now
There's a lot of
issues
(01:11:59):
surrounding MPAs
and designated
MPAs one
I mean, it's not
really an issue,
but it takes a
long time
It takes a long
time because it's
conflict
management
You are telling
people who used
to be able to
fish or do
anything in a
certain area that
they're gonna be
restricted
from doing
That activity in
that area. It's
not just fishing.
It's any kind of
extractive type.
So it could be
oil and gas
It could be
mining it could
be development.
(01:12:19):
It could be even
recreational
activities
depending on how
bad that area is
So you have to do
a lot of conflict
management
You have to do a
lot of
compromising a
lot of
negotiation to
get an area
protected
And once you get
that area
protected which
could take
anywhere from a
year to like 10
years even longer
to get protected
Then you have to
enforce and you
have to manage
and you have to
go through
adaptive
management
process to change
the
(01:12:40):
management with
You know
different types
of changes that
are going on in
the world a lot
of stuff
going on there
That was really
interesting to
see they didn't
mention that in
Antarctica
There is the
eastern part of
the ocean in
Antarctica the
southern ocean
that they
want to protect
they've been
trying to get it
protected for
over 10 years and
Antarctica is
managed by 24 25
countries
including China
and Russia who
keep you know
(01:13:00):
Blocking the vote
to get this area
protected. They
did protect the
Ross MPa or the
Ross sea which
was great
But now they want
to protect this
other area to not
only
protect krill
But other fish
like what they
call the Chilean
sea bass, which
is different fish
I think it's
called Patagonia
and tooth fish
and so people are
trying to protect
but it's hard to
protect
these areas
So there's a lot
of different
issues and then
(01:13:21):
we talked about
the enforcement
the UK allows
bottom trolley
and 90% of its
marine
protected areas
That's got to
change because
you can't protect
an area. You're
not just
protecting
species
You can't protect
an area because
that's where they
live. That's
where they eat.
That's where they
interact
You have to
protect that area
You can't let
bottom trolley a
destructive
fishing practice
that will come
through and
destroy a
particular part
of the habitat
If that continues
(01:13:41):
to happen over
and over and over
again, you know
Even it starts
off as narrow
bands that can
increase and
increase as
bottom trolley
continues
to happen
So there's got to
be some
restriction of
extractive
processes in
marine
protected areas
In fact, it was
argued that you
don't really have
a marine
protected area if
you allow
extractive
processes like
fish bottom
trolley in marine
protected
(01:14:01):
Areas, so there
are a lot of
things that
happen that have
to be stopped now
Let's talk a
little bit about
trawling
Trawling is a
destructive
practice like I
talked about
before it scrapes
the bottom. There
are different
types of trawlers
bottom trawling
There's like mid
water column
trawling where
basically the
trawl goes
through the
water column
It doesn't
actually hit the
bottom and it
takes anything in
the area
I think the krill
(01:14:22):
are going through
like the mid
column trawling,
but it doesn't
destroy
the bottom
But it does take
a lot depending
on how big the
net it does and
in the oceans
It shows that
they're pretty
big nets and a
lot of processing
going on at sea
before it gets
taken to shore
And so there's
obviously
problems with it,
but does take a
narrow band
So if managed
properly, maybe
you can say hey,
(01:14:42):
yeah, we can
actually do this
But you can't you
know, there's
certain times
you're be able to
trawl if you take
a narrow band in
a productive area
And you don't
fish beyond that
that band will
fill in with
other organisms
as succession
happens
in ecology
But you know, you
have to be
careful and
manage that
It's very
difficult to
manage at sea
when you're not
there all the
time and
then you know
People can just
(01:15:03):
go they'll beg
for forgiveness
instead of asking
for permission at
sea and they'll
just keep
Trawling so you
do have to be
careful with
that. There have
been advancements
in
trawling in terms
of net size in
terms of
exclusive devices
such as sea
turtle
exclusion devices
I think there are
also for some
like dolphins as
well where it
allows these
animals to
get out of
the net and be
able to survive
(01:15:23):
there's mesh
sizes which allow
to be more
selective in
terms of the
type of fish so
they'll have
larger mesh sizes
for larger fish
so the smaller
fish can go
through the mesh
and they won't
get caught trying
to reduce bycatch
but I did look up
some statistics
on it and so
according to some
sources bottom
trawling accounts
for approximately
25% of the
world's wild
caught seafood
(01:15:44):
and when you
include mid-water
trawling it
contributes just
over one-third
So just over 30%
of global fish
catches in
Canada. I want to
get something
specific
in Canada
It's about 6.5%
of the national
fish catch is
obtained through
trawling methods
The bycatch
concern is that
the bycatch is
estimated at 23%
(01:16:04):
indicating a
significant
portion of
non-target
species caught
and discarded
In the US the
trawl percentage
accounts for
approximately 4%
of the catch from
trawling
activities
And then the
bycatch is nearly
50% now UK
As I mentioned
90% of the MPAs
have permitted to
have bottom
trawling
But the trawling
(01:16:24):
stands for
approximately
3.7% of the fish
catch the
nation's
fish catch
So maybe it's not
actually
happening even
though 90% of the
MPAs allow
it to happen
It may not be
happening
everywhere other
notable countries
that have some
significant
trawling
Approximately 65%
of its seafood in
the Netherlands
is caught by
bottom trawling
in Morocco
(01:16:44):
Also reports
about 65% is
caught from
bottom trawling
and then Vietnam
bottom trawling
accounts for 59%
of its
seafood catch
So now obviously
when you're
looking at bottom
trawling, you're
worried about
habitat
destruction
You're also
worried about
high
bycatch rates
So non-targeted
species including
endangered marine
life are caught
and discarded
leading to
ecological
imbalances
(01:17:05):
And then of
course carbon
emissions was
mentioned in the
ocean as you
start to dredge
out the bottom
Sediments starts
to get moved and
carbon dioxide
gets released
into the
atmosphere
There's some
recent studies
that say that it
may release
substantial
amounts of carbon
dioxide by
disturbing carbon
rich sediments on
the ocean floor
So there's a lot
going on with
bottom trawling
not the best
fishing method
(01:17:26):
Obviously,
there's certain
countries that
depend a
lot on it
And there's other
countries that
don't depend a
lot on it
And of course the
management of
MPAs varies from
country to
country
to country
The UN came out
with some
stipulations in
terms of what a
marine protected
area is and they
kind of
follow that
And then we're
also seeing more
conservation
coming in near
shore as I talked
about a couple of
weeks ago with
(01:17:46):
Angelo Villagomez
and Alia Hadiat
from the center
of american
progress talking
about how near
shore protection
should start to
ramp up and
increase
Because we're
doing a lot on
offshore
But we're not
doing as much on
the inshore where
it's just a
harder
place to do it
The coastal area
is the harder
place where we
are going to be
having problems
in conflict
resolution
That has to take
place before we
(01:18:06):
can start to
protect those one
of the things
they talked about
papahana
makua kaya
The marine
sanctuary off the
islands of hawaii
or just northern
islands of hawaii
Which is a huge
place that has a
great
spillover effect
Obviously that
was the subject
matter of some
controversy a
couple months ago
when donald trump
opened it
up to fishing
So that's going
to be a problem
But there's a big
(01:18:27):
focus on this in
the movie
They talk a lot
about how the
size of it's
great and
everything is
doing well
And it's
increased catch
rates by 54
outside the
marine protected
area, which is
all wonderful
The one thing
though that we
should mention is
that in areas
where it's
overseas
territories such
as the
hawaii islands
I guess not
really territory
It's a state but
still like in
those areas where
(01:18:47):
it's
indigenous led
It's great to
have that
protection
because
especially with
indigenous led
marine protected
areas is usually
pretty good
because it's part
of their culture
However, a lot of
the bigger marine
protected areas
are in areas
where there's a
big indigenous
population
There's less in
the main
population the
non-indigenous
population
because it's
harder to do
And it becomes
(01:19:08):
more conflicting
and we try to do
one of the sea
mountain canyons
in the us
Just off the
coast of
massachusetts. I
don't know if it
ever got brought
back, but now
that donald trump
is in power
I'm sure it was
an executive
order when it
first came in
under the obama
administration.
Donald trump
took it away
I think biden
took it back. I'm
sure it's got
back stripped
down again
So these are big
problems that
happen not only
in the us but all
(01:19:28):
over the world
Mpa's are not
easy to designate
which you know,
the movie made it
sound like it
could be
It's not an easy
thing. It works
when it's done
properly and it's
enforced and it's
managed properly
But when it's not
or it takes a
long time to get
it approved, you
know destruction
continues
to happen
And there's
always you know
countries who are
wanting to
get on top
The papahana
makua kia got
opened up because
(01:19:49):
you know, the us
want to be number
one in the
pacific
for fishing
Pretty much that
was the reason so
that's a big
problem when you
talk about mpa's
and trying to
keep mpa's intact
and protected
So lots of stuff
going on great
message of hope
the fact is hey
You know what?
There's our ways
to do it. We just
have to do it
We just have to
actually go out
and execute and
put in more
marine protected
areas get up to
that 30 percent
Or as close as
(01:20:09):
possible by 2030
and just continue
to work at it and
work at it and
work at it
So I hope you
have a chance to
go see it. I
don't know what's
going to happen
This was a
release it came
out a little
later in canada
than it did in
the uk when it
was first
released at the
Beginning of the
month in may but
I highly
recommend you go
get I hope they
put it out
on netflix
Or on some
streaming channel
that everybody
can get access to
because I think
it'll make a lot
(01:20:29):
more waves
No pun intended,
but I hope you
get to see if
you've seen it
and you want to
let me know what
you
thought about it
Please let me
know in the
comments down
below if you're
watching this on
youtube or you
can go to speakup
for blue.com
forward slash
Contact fill out
the form
Let me know what
you thought of
the movie or if
you're looking
forward to seeing
the movie and
then of course
you can always
Hit me up on
instagram at how
to protect
(01:20:50):
the ocean
That's pat how to
protect the ocean
I want to thank
you so much for
joining me on
today's episode
of the how to
protect the
ocean podcast
Have a great day.
We'll talk to you
next time and
happy
conservation
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